Season Predictions: Another Disappointing Definition of Success

Same old same old next May then…



Season Predictions: Another Disappointing Definition of Success

FA Cup Final – Mixed emotions


Never before have I experienced such an array of mixed emotions and torn loyalties as during the 2013/14 FA Cup final. The conclusion of the Wigan Tie in the previous round had left me feeling relieved more than elated with the prospect of a Wembley final. As I listened to Roy Keane’s predictably pessimistic portrayal of our performance, I remained ever hopeful that the final would be a starkly contrastive display and that Wenger would finally deliver on the success I had been promised throughout my adolescence. At the age of 21, my teenage years had been a plethora of ‘nearly-years’ and the infamous youth project which every summer, I naively reassured myself would materialise for the following season. The entire cup run had felt disappointingly cheap and unfulfilling right up to the final and I felt I had been robbed of the glorious second coming of Arsenal glory.

Sitting in my student bar surrounded by my jeering friends watching Hull wheel away in celebration for their second goal of the game, I found myself strangely detached from what I was witnessing. It was at this moment that I entertained the prospect of defeat and what that would mean for the future of our club before briefly remarking: ‘I really hope we lose this’. In hindsight the thought process was clearly clouded by frustration, but I can distinctly remember feeling a strong desire for Hull to win that game, because surely after such an upset, Wenger would have to go. As events transpired and Ramsey slotted home the winner, I like many other fellow Gooners, leapt to my feet in celebration, but as with the Wigan game, the atmosphere was laced more with the sense of relief than jubilation. It wasn’t a cup victory that I felt particularly proud of; we had won… but barely. After a season which had initially promised so much, to once again fade away and settle for the 4th place trophy left a bitter taste and a void which ultimately a fortuitous FA Cup did not fill.

I genuinely believe that if Wenger had lost that final, the pressure for him to vacate North London would’ve been insurmountable. As a consequence of the Frenchman’s first piece of silverware in almost a decade, I feel that Arsenal are set for another season of underwhelming stagnation, delivering just enough to still be placed in the title challenging category for the following year but without supplying any genuine ground for optimism. Based on what I have seen so far this campaign, I predict that Arsenal will finish 3rd this season but pose no significant threat to Chelsea or Manchester City. The Champions League will predictably conclude once Arsenal face a team of any formidable quality (likely to be in the first knock-out phase) and a similar tale will be noted for our defence of the FA Cup. For me, this does not satisfy my expectation of where Arsenal should be, yet a top 3 finish will serve to validate Wenger for another year of an almost identical blueprint.

Performances have been decisively sub-par this season and based on performance alone, rightfully Arsenal should not be anywhere near the summit of the table. The visit to the King Power stadium was a particularly soulless and empty display, 90 minutes of my life that I will never get back. We know of this patented phenomenon all too well now though, not since the days of the Invincibles can I remember an Arsenal team that has boasted an aura of consistency throughout a season. Start weak, finish strong or vice versa; the tried and tested top 4 formulas. Importantly despite poor performances, aside from Chelsea (who will win the league at a canter); we are not losing touch with those around us. Permitting the squad is not continually blighted by injury throughout the new year, if the formula is to be trusted, Arsenal should develop a run of form; dispatching sides that sit below us in the table.

I think my greatest concern is that 3rd will be generally considered, amongst those in positions of power within the club, as an adequate campaign despite never posing any serious threat to either of the genuine title contenders. I have begun to doubt that a trip to the Emirates still poses quite the formidable test that it used to. A journey to the Etihad guarantees you serious strife for success, whereas I worry that Arsenal away can now be categorised as a ‘potential slip up’ for sides of genuine quality. As much as I love to see the ‘Arsenal way’ of football in full flow, top managers and top sides that visit the Emirates are rarely susceptible to our increasingly predictably style, making it simplistic for opponents to construct outfits which serve to null the potency of our attack.

Often I feel that managerial overhauls are adopted as ‘procedure’ in modern football; if your team is playing poorly, change the manager, problem solved. We all know it’s not as simple as that. Sacking the manager need not be the solution, provided that new ideas and approaches are implemented to revitalise the side. As an example, look at the new squad, style of football and footballing ethos that Sam Allardyce has created at West Ham in contrast to last season. Why is it that we have grown not to expect something similar from Arsene Wenger, particularly given the means at his disposal? Stubbornness? Naivety?

I don’t think anyone wanted to see the manager who is so deeply embedded in Arsenal history bow out on a sour note, but realistically it’s gone past that point now. The majority of fans have long since lost sight of any vision Wenger has been instilling in the media, but similarly, have far too much respect for the man to emulate scenes of a Newcastle Utd, ‘Pardew Out’ nature; we’re better than that. But there’s only so much the fan base is willing to tolerate. Undoubtedly, there are set to be turbulent times ahead that will have a dramatic impact on the future of our club. In many respects, this predictably disappointing season will serve as the lull before the storm.


NEW! Subscribe to our weekly Gooner Fanzine newsletter for all the latest news, views, and videos from the intelligent voice of Arsenal supporters since 1987.

Please note that we will not share your email address with any 3rd parties.


Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

81
comments

  1. SP

    Nov 14, 2014, 8:16 #61337

    These clumsy, poorly-written anti-Wenger pieces that crop up each day have reached new lows. You might, quite rightly, have issues with AW but to hope the team - your team - loses a cup final is staggering. This team has left me angry, frustrated and close to kicking the cat, but I can't ever recall wishing for defeat - least of all in a final. You need some perspective, son. Trophies should never be belittled - they are part of the building blocks of history.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 14, 2014, 0:08 #61332

    jw, how dare you, all that was supposed to be air brushed out of history. CT Gooner, nothing has changed alright just a lot more fans have woken up, but there's still some in a slumber.

  3. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 13, 2014, 23:53 #61331

    goonergonecarp, fraid any respect he had is already lost mate, and has been for some time, but yes if he were to do us all a favour and piss off he might get some of it back.

  4. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 13, 2014, 18:16 #61314

    Ron agree about the 91 team - a few fellow Gooners over a pint discussed the following : What Arsenal team would you choose if your life depended on it? Three went for the 91 team, two went for the 71 side. Brilliant as the 2004 team was it could be out thought tactically. Wenger could not have beaten Parma with that 94 team and if you wanted real attacking football the second half of the 92 season was a brilliant goal fest! George Graham's coaching gave Wenger the platform to succeed and AW admits that himself!

  5. jimbo

    Nov 13, 2014, 15:57 #61302

    I like Wenger, but is the definition for insanity "to try the same thing over and over and expect different results, this is Wengers problem when he plays the same way for every match, u need to have a different tactic to beat the likes of mourinho

  6. CT Gooner

    Nov 13, 2014, 13:49 #61285

    I find it funny that folks are going nuts now. What's different today vs. last year or the last 6? Ok we may have a few less points, but that's it. The team is as unbalanced as it has been, no young players making the grade from Project Youth, same old tactically weak manager, team not clicking on the field/players being played out of position, very high salary costs, etc. I made up my mind Wenger had to go when he sold Van Persie two weeks after the season tickets had to be paid for, so as much as I like folks coming to my side of the argument, what's changed?? For the record, I too wanted us to lose the FA cup final, simply to get rid of Wenger!!

  7. jjetplane

    Nov 13, 2014, 12:33 #61277

    No nerves, no hysteria. As RON puts it, if you do not know football has an up and down, joy and misery game then you are not doing it right. **** the caution! (a wasted decade) and let's move on this month. Would be quite happy if Bouldie holds the reins until xmas and if he loses a couple - well blow me, that will hardly be a sea change. These players earn enough and mouth it enough to do what some of those lads were doing 15 years ago and more! Play for each other and do your own managing until a new face/s are in. Wenger has done his bit and has been paid over the odds for it. That culture has cascaded through the club though I bet the stewards have a hard time paying for their oyster cards. WESTIe Rodgers and Liverpool are well under the media cosh presently and they have been too soft on Arsene FC for too long as the accounts have hummed and the football has dissappeared. I was at the Mancy game and the totts but '91 was heaven.

  8. Westlower

    Nov 13, 2014, 12:04 #61272

    @Bard, The words were all from the editor of the Racing Post. He's probably been reading Jeff's posts in his lunch break. Obviously hit a few nerves though?

  9. jeff wright

    Nov 13, 2014, 10:48 #61264

    It was funny really seeing all the FAC it is beneath us to bother with we have bigger fish to fry who were calling those who had suggested it was our best chance of a trophy last season idiots,jumping on the bandwagon,after we had won it. Not before though. In reality they had no confidence in Wenger winning it even against Hull ,especially after the previous cup final against Brum which Wenger somehow managed to lose. Also the semi against Wigan did not inspire any confidence either. All's well that ends well though and Westie and lee kfc were able to come out of hiding shrieking with euphoria and relief. The relief bit was the most noticeable,they are still at even now using the cup win to try and divert attention away from the diabolical results that Wenger's inept management has produced this season , with us going out of the League Cup at home to Saints in the first round , we were well outplayed as well it must be said by the newly assembled side and a manager in his first term in England out foxed old dog Arsene . the European scene is not much better either we were played off the park by Dortmund, a side struggling in the German league this season - and after losing a 3-0 lead to lowly Anderlecht now look likely to only be able to finish in the 2nd coffin box place - anyone who thinks that we have any hope of going far in the tournament is living in Dreamland. After 11 games played in the Prem and just into November our genius of a manager has conceded that he can't win the title after only last Friday claiming that he could do !..... At the rate things are going he will do well to even get 4th. Oh what about the FAC then,will those who wanted to give it a swerve last season now expect Wenger to take it seriously , or should he concentrate on getting another heroic defeat in Europe on his long rap sheet for doing this ? You couldn't make it up.

  10. Bard

    Nov 13, 2014, 10:39 #61263

    Westie; I can't believe you really think that all the discontent is because of a few losses, thats a ridiculously trite assessment. There is a bit of hysteria but to my mind most are fed up with the massive under achievement

  11. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Nov 13, 2014, 10:36 #61262

    As is pointed out on the brilliant Gooner podcast, the majority of the fans feel disconnected from the manager. That is the crux of the problem. Many of us have come to seriously dislike him and that puts us in a dilemma every time we play. We are desperate for the team to win but we know that the removal of the manager is in the best long term interest of the club. Wenger usually does just enough to stop a mass outpouring against him during matches. . I'm not sure that he will be able to keep a lid on it this side of Xmas,though, with some difficult matches coming up. Vive la revolution.

  12. Ron

    Nov 13, 2014, 10:26 #61261

    Joe S - The Clubs full of second rate players save for Sanchez. As for Wilshire? He never was that good in my view. Hes not regressed much. Hes just got to where he was destined to get. Another over hyped great english hope that the media adopted and dressed up as their latest Bryan Robson clone. The fans bought into it.

  13. Joe S.

    Nov 13, 2014, 9:48 #61259

    Is everyone celebrating Micheal Arteta's new one year contract. The joy of it all. It will send shivers down the spines of all our main opponents. Just rewards for a journeyman. Yes,the FA Cup final. It was a night of mixed emotions and I'm sure I wasn't alone.Down 0-2 with part of me wanting Hull to bury the hatchet deeper so that finally Arsenal FC could move on and then after Hull missed a sitter my mood turned and I knew we weren't going to lose.Then relief. It was a weird night when nothing really got resolved because the club has become complacent. I mentioned in a post soon after the cup that we would find ourselves in this position and I fear that the club has regressed further. What will happen to Diaby,Rosicky,Giroud,Podolsky,Carzola Sanogo, Mrertsacker et al? also why has Jack W regressed so much? Who should take responsibility for his failure to mature as a footballer? Isn't it in his best interest ( and AFC's ) for him to move on to another club that could guide him better? This is all serious stuff which I think our present manager is incapable of dealing with.

  14. Ron

    Nov 13, 2014, 9:26 #61258

    Westie - fair points mate as ever. I was at the 6-2! We were outplayed though Utd that night. They were excellent and even Lee Sharpe performed well! Not sure it was a case of not coping, more we were just thrashed. Spurs deserved to beat us too. Take yr point though. There was great interchangeability in the 91 side as you say. Hillier gets stick today yet Ian Wright on 606 a few week back said he was the most underrated player he d ever played with. He was a grafter. You know my view mate. GG was a far superior coach to AW. A young GG at Arsenal in this PL with these resources would have us purring like a Rolls Royce in sure. He d need a few top class players though and they would need paying bug bucks to get. Thats what GG would have to get into his make up, where he seemingly didnt back then. Wengers made the same mistake ironically.

  15. Westlower

    Nov 13, 2014, 8:54 #61257

    @Ron I have to agree with you that the 90/91 season was one of our best in my lifetime just losing once in the league away to Chelsea. That day, both Adams & O'Leary didn't play, but Bouldy played in all 38 league games. Linighan replaced Adams, Groves for O'Leary & Hillier substituted Bould later in the game. It just shows that even the most consistent sides can be undone when key players are unavailable. Ron, you've taken my previous words out of context. I stated if the club were in a position to win the league, it should take priority over Cup competitions, as we're not strong enough to compete successfully on all fronts. In fact you put up the 91 team as one of our best and they couldn't cope, losing 2-6 to Man U at Highbury & 1-3 to the Sours in the FA Cup semi.

  16. goonergocarpfishing

    Nov 13, 2014, 8:54 #61256

    when wenger could see players like vieira,campbell,winters,dicko,grimande etc were not producing the goods say one good game in 7 or so he would simpley move them on or not renew thier contracts for the good of the club .its a shame that he doesnt stick by those principles when it comes to his own performaces as a manager .one good season in 7 or so (i dont count 4th with no cups as a success sorry and im not including first few seasons at the emirates as we knew wed be hampered )isnt good for the club so dont sort your self a new contract cos your performances do not warrent it and move on and allow a new person with fresh ideas to come in and replace you so you dont impare the club .i wonder if this was along the lines of what wenger would tell the afore mentioned players when it was time for them to go well if thats the case mr wenger go stand infront of a mirror ,take a deep breath ,be honest,stop holding back our club and do the right thing and youll get back some of the respect you are unfortunatley losing.youve been an amazing manager ,given the club and fans some fantastic memories but like the afore mentioned players you have to know when its time to go.WENGER OUT

  17. Ron

    Nov 13, 2014, 8:54 #61255

    Westie - its cobblers that is mate. Football isnt that important that it needs giving an elevated psychco/social context like that. Not sure if theyre yr words or the Racing Posts, but for for most, football is a sport that thrives on fans having a dig, having a bleat and a moan. Take it away and youre left with what? A genteel little spectacle that middle class viewers all just meekly exclaim, 'oh well' jolly hockey sticks, better luck next time chums, hard cheese fellas' etc etc. People moan yes, i have a dig at Arsenal and so on, but do i care that much? No. Does it disturb my life style if Arsenal lose 8-0?. No. Does it annoy me that Clubs rip off punters week in week out and spin bull crap while they do it? No. Do i resereve the right to have a go where it merited in the face of the prices football charges to see rubbish? Yes. Do i reserve the right to challenge those like you who advocate we just accept rubbish meekly, when its been presented as success for 9 years? Absolutely yes. Pull the other one Westie. This song sheet of yours is all dog eared and worn out. Footballs about arguments and opinions, right or wrong. Take it away and its left with thousands of those all thinking like you do? Heaven forbid. It lacks passion now, do as you suggest and you've got yourself a religious cult all paying homage to humdrumn and mediocrity, which lets be honest is what you who bang Wengers drum want to see. Yr take on Liverpool is way off beam too. Rodgers is getting more stick now for Liverpools garbage 2 years into his job than is your hero Wenger after 9 years of flaky rubbish. Open yr eyes!

  18. Ron

    Nov 13, 2014, 8:38 #61253

    Jamie - its convenient for you to ignore that nearly all on here who bang Wengers drum were doing some thing far worse than fans wanting losses and that was wanting the Club to abort the FAC well before the Final so to pursue what they saw as a realistic title tilt (the fools!). Every day they were on here giving it large, 'dump the Cups' , 'forget the Cap 1 Cup' and so on. You are digging away at Jeff yet he, like most of us were demanding we go for the Cups in the face of what was clearly never going to be a title run by December last year. Westie was the biggest culprit for it. Ask him to deny what im saying why dont you? Go on, ask him. Lets see one blind and blinkered Wengerite put another one on the spot. It ll be good to see! As usual youre well off beam with your comments but its appreciated that scratching about for reasons to continue under Wenger is a nigh impossible task now.

  19. Westlower

    Nov 13, 2014, 7:55 #61251

    Two good reads in today's papers: Daily Mail - The day England gave Mussolini a bloody nose. All hell broke loose when Italy came to Highbury in 1934. Racing Post - Fans have to realise not every defeat is a crisis. Negativity moaners are increasing in numbers now and it's getting extremely aggravating. Too many people are now pathetically incapable of understanding that not every team can be successful. Losing is now viewed as an unacceptable sin for which a shower of whining and criticism is the automatic punishment. I have no idea what is fuelling this inability to accept defeat and disappointment, but it's undoubtedly getting worse and it's spoiling the enjoyment of following the game. Liverpool get less criticism from the media than other clubs, perhaps everyone should cut the likes of Arsenal the same sort of slack they do Liverpool. It would be a welcome relief if fans of all clubs accepted football is all about ups and downs and that you look a bit of a clown when you fail to accept setbacks without public expressions of woe.

  20. Edmund

    Nov 13, 2014, 1:34 #61249

    One point worth noting is that Wenger's youth project did work - for other teams. Fabregas is doing it for Chelsea, RVP almost single-handedly won MU's last title and even Alex Song is a revelation at West Ham. If only he has left after winning the FA Cup, most would have been happy.

  21. jeff wright

    Nov 13, 2014, 0:37 #61247

    I was pleased that we won the cup having suggested last season on here that Wenger should go for it to try and put the supporters out of their misery after 9 years of his futile attempts to win the European Cup - a trophy beyond his abilities to win and that he should go for a trophy that it was possible for him to win. I couldn't care less about Wenger though . He and tradition are like chalk and cheese. Wenger has already pissed on FAC tradition in the past by being the only Arsenal manager to not celebrate winning the cup by parading it through the streets of Islington , he also made clear his views on the other domestic cup when dismissing it as being not worth celebrating winning . Yet he cynically celebrated when it suited his needs winning a useless trophy , the community shield ! What a fraud he is . If a man cheats on his wife he will cheat on anyone. Wenger has stayed at AFC for his own purposes ,he was scared after getting fired by Monaco to take up the offer to go and manage Real Madrid knowing he would have to win trophies pronto and not after 9 years. So he gave Perez's offer a swerve preferring instead to stay in the comfort zone at AFC of only needing to get 4th place every season at AFC. He is back in again now after a scare last season when he was exposed by the 6-0 thrashing off Mourinho as not being fit for purpose . Wenger needed that FAC win to use for an excuse to stay on . We have already seen the results off this decision by him - and things will get even worse.This FAC hysterical malarkey is really just being used by some AKB's to use for an excuse to have a dig at the so called WOB's - who want their messiah out - it is not fooling anyone though.

  22. jjetplane

    Nov 12, 2014, 23:48 #61246

    Usual AKB higher ground clap trap. I think you will all find OGL doesn't give a toss for your traditions. He likes your money - so carry on paying for whitewash. 'Don't you worry about the crowd - I'll work them up!' GG talking. 'Don't you worry about the gate money - I'll give it to Stan' Some tradition that. Ho ho.

  23. jeff wright

    Nov 12, 2014, 22:51 #61244

    lee kfc, hey why don't ur go and have a box of chicken wings and fries ... and take your alta egos Th14 and Denis wiv you the good thing is ur only have to buy one meal! Ur couldn't make it up.

  24. JAMIE

    Nov 12, 2014, 22:45 #61243

    A person who can want Arsenal to lose a game in order to get rid of Wenger, especially in a final is certainly no fan,more a fool who only cares for his own agenda.Who knows! the replacement manager could even take us backwards,the wobs don't even think of that.Does anybody not wonder how we'd look if after always finishing top four we slipped lower under someone else.

  25. Rocky RIP

    Nov 12, 2014, 22:08 #61242

    @Compete - Nobody is claiming winning the FA Cup solved our problems or eradicated past short-comings. We are merely responding to people actually wanting to not win it. I'm a traditionalist, from an era when the FA Cup was valued very highly. I still love it and the joy it brings. Abide with me gets the hairs on my neck bristling. A lump in the throat. She wore a yellow ribbon in the merry month of May is a tradition all bona fide Gooners hold dear. Long may it continue. It gives clubs who aren't having great seasons, or who have a slim/no chance of winning the title ie. everyone except Man City and Chelsea at present it seems, a genuine shot at glory. I didn't wake up and smell the coffee the Sunday after the Final, I woke up and smelt the sweet smell of success (and a beer soaked pair of jeans.)Yes, we all have greater ambitions of Champions League finals and title run-ins, but if you can't enjoy those moments of joy at Wembley and would rather lose, give it up.

  26. Th14afc

    Nov 12, 2014, 21:45 #61241

    Jeff- by debate u mean having a pop at anyone who disagrees with your crazy ramblings? Go watch ur spuds DVD & pipe down

  27. Compete with Real Madrid

    Nov 12, 2014, 21:43 #61240

    One great day out at Wembley in return for 10 years of hurt and pain with the promise of more to come.FFS the year before Wigan won the FA cup.You have to look at the bigger picture.Have Arsenal improved because of that cup win?NO.We are worse than ever.If we finish within 25 points of Chelsea this season it will be a miracle.Wake up and smell the coffee my fellow Gooners

  28. jeff wright

    Nov 12, 2014, 21:31 #61237

    lee kfc/ th14 ... you are are nuts talking to yourself again ... leave the debate to the grown ups and go and play with your Xbox or whatever.

  29. Gaz

    Nov 12, 2014, 20:56 #61235

    @Tony Evans: That's definitely the dilemma I'm going through myself nowadays. My heart would never want us to lose a game but my head says if we're not allowed to protest the only way we'll see Wenger go is if results get so bad he's forced out. And that's not me being fickle at all as I backed him implicitly between 2005 and 2011 but since then I've lost all confidence in him and his methods. I'm now so bored with it all I couldn't care less if we win lose or draw and I hate feeling that way. I temper this by telling myself it's not Arsenal I've fallen out of love with but Wenger. Should add that I'm not heartless enough not to realise what a legend he is and whilst I want him gone with a passion I take a real dim view of those who abuse him. He may not be the man to take this Club forward but he certainly deserves our respect and admiration...

  30. lee afc

    Nov 12, 2014, 20:49 #61234

    Rocky...I can name you one person who "didn't go nuts when we won the fa cup" AND YES he is "dead inside and a parasite" and YES he is "devoid of any love for The Arsenal"......step forward Jeff Right.

  31. Th14afc

    Nov 12, 2014, 20:43 #61233

    As usual i find myself agreeing with rocky....how anyone could have wanted arsenal to lose the fa cup final is beyond me...the same fans that moaned about how arsenal hadn't won a trophy for 9 years...a trophy is up for grabs & u want arsenal to lose,it's unbelievable....what's this bull about arsenal having an easy route to the final aswell...yeah Coventry at home is easy but Tottenham,Everton & Liverpool certainly aren't easy home or away....the Liverpool game showed great determination as it came just a week after getting hammered at anfield....just if you've got it in for wenger doesn't excuse u wanting arsenal to lose a final...I'll never agree with that

  32. Gaz

    Nov 12, 2014, 20:22 #61232

    When comparing Wenger and Graham it should never be forgotten that Graham had no European competitions to enter for five years. Who's to say that with the experience gained from playing in the 89/90 European Cup the 91/92 campaign might not have been far better? I mean we'd have had UEFA cup football in 87/88 and that comp back then was very competitive. Also Graham never had the option of the fourth place trophy to play for and the domestic cups he won were won at a time when they still really meant something and nobody even thought about reserve sides and half full stadiums...

  33. Ron

    Nov 12, 2014, 20:13 #61229

    Hoping for defeats is the lowest ebb that a fan can reach. Its not a position i can support, yet i accept its quite common. Ive know fans of many Clubs seek losses to force change so why not Arsenal fans, though the fans of those other Clubs have been suffering far longer and the Clubs at a far lower ebb. We re no different, though many talk and act as if they are over the years since we moved to that infernal bloody stadium. Theres a lot of fan snobbery from Arsenal fans towards other Clubs fans that ive seen and heard a lot of on away days. They know who they are. The oft repeated ' you live in a sh--t h--e' song or as bad 'Youve only come to see the Arsenal'. Rubbish songs that dont offer support to the team or players, they just display arrogance and ignorance and give offence. Thats why many clubs hate Arsenal, Wenger, their fans et al and why they're rejoicing when we lose. You have to live outside of London to really appreciate the joy they get when Arsenal lose heavily.So, lets stop the self ingratiation shall we. If different fans are at different levels with it all, let them be. Its a free World. I do agree though, a new Coach isnt going to walk on water after inheriting this weak kneed lot.In fact, as with Utd, it may even be the case of the coach that follows the coach after Wenger that moves us forward so i d keep yr trumpets in the boxes for a bit when Wenger does shuffle off to wherever hes headed.

  34. Rocky RIP

    Nov 12, 2014, 19:53 #61225

    Bard - Dropping feelings on Wenger aside as I'm sure we all share varying levels of frustration, anyone who didn't go nuts when we won the FA Cup Final in May is either dead inside, a parasite which feeds off the misery in life or devoid of any love for The Arsenal. People moaned that we'd gone 9 years without a trophy, then moan about it when we do win one and get sniffy about the opposition and admit to not actually wanting us to win it...in the hope we get another manager who might win us something. Sensible logic.

  35. jeff wright

    Nov 12, 2014, 19:46 #61224

    James, Wenger couldn't even be bothered holding a parade on a couple of occasions after winning the FAC in his pomp with us , of course he was aiming for higher things then . Hill-wood said that finishing 4th in the Prem was a higher priority than the FAC because there was more money to be made from doing that. Wenger has even said that he wouldn't even celebrate winning the League Cup at all ! So don't start coming all of that success has spoiled some of us malarkey,last season I suggested ,along with others on here, that Wenger should go for the FAC because the so called title challenge was just another illusion that would vanish like a mirage before our eyes as an oasis does to men dying of thirst in the desert ,come March. Actually it was a bit earlier but not as early as November! We were called idiots by some on here for suggesting that because we had to go all out to win the Prem,but we proved to be correct in our predictions. So if elitism regarding trophies does exist then it is Wenger and some of his AKB that have shown it. I was not saying that , as you claimed , that we should not celebrate winning the cup,but that your analogy with Liverpool's euphoria at winning the European Cup after being 3-0 down in Istanbul, against AC Milan, with us beating er,Hull ,after being 2-0 down at Wembley to them, was nonsense. I reiterate that. Cheers.

  36. JAMIE

    Nov 12, 2014, 19:46 #61223

    I defend Wenger as most will know on here,yet he didn't change Arsenal's playing ethos as much as people make out,that's just lazy throw away journalism.Arsenal have generally led the way in style of play and if you look at the three managers who are normally hit for being negative,Graham,Mee and Howe,I say go back watch the dvd's the youtube clips and you'll see different.Graham's Arsenal were great to watch up till his final season,the 91 team were not far behind the invincibles.Howe's teams were dubbed the entertainers in the mid 80's and were defensively weak at times while Mee's double winners were the match of any for their day,watch the highlights.Wenger has been great for Arsenal and improved their style yet not to the extent that some claim.

  37. Bard

    Nov 12, 2014, 19:41 #61222

    Rocky RIP; I agree mate. however much i want Wenger to leave I can never countenance wanting us to be beat. That goes right against the grain. There is also a somewhat hysterical feel to some of the posts. There won't be a knee jerk reaction and neither should there be. Getting another manager takes time, getting the right one may take even longer. My view is that Wenger will see the season out and there will be a reassessment depending on results. If he makes top 4 nothing will change for another year. Everyone needs to calm down, he is on his way out sooner or later. I have posted before, whatever we think he will be a hard act to follow. There is never a smooth transition when you have dictatorships.

  38. James

    Nov 12, 2014, 19:12 #61220

    Some absolute oxygen thieves on here! Jeff wright...a cup win is a cup win and should be celebrated as such! We beat Sheffield Wednesday in 93...dod you celebrate that or were they not top rank enough to be excited about the fa cup win? You all slate Wenger, but do you ever stop to listen to yourselves? You sound like if he went we would definitely win things? Why is that? How many of our managers have actually won league titles, because if it was as easy as just bringing one in to do it im sure a lot more managers in the premier league would have done it! The fact Wenger spoilt us all so early on seems to have given some 'hardcore fans' the impression that we always won things. And to those who say they don't care whilst Wenger is in charge...behave yourselves. Arsenal football club is about history, tradition, a way of doing things AND football. The club is what you support, no matter what happens i will support and care about the club! Should that mean trophies great, should it not, my support wont change. So why are you associating support with the choice of manager ? The bottom line is it is not guaranteed that we won more without the man so stop acting like it is and give credit where it is due for winning the highest domestic cup there is!

  39. Rocky RIP

    Nov 12, 2014, 18:52 #61219

    I got as far as 'I really hope we lose this' and stopped reading. It beggars belief that so called fans are so wrapped up in agendas about Wenger that their priorities are so warped that they don't want us to win the Cup Final. As Dr Spock might say - illogical.

  40. norfolk gooner

    Nov 12, 2014, 17:49 #61214

    @Tony Evans great posts mate, like you i,ve been supporting arsenal since 1971 so i know exactly how u feel and your spot on with your comments.Also good posts about the 89 and 91 teams cant remember GG gettin beat eight or six or surrendering three and four goal leads can you?

  41. Rippy

    Nov 12, 2014, 17:49 #61213

    I wonder how many trophies George would have won if he was given the time and money wenger has had. For me he will always be the better manager. Wengers next tactic will be rush goalie ha ha.

  42. jeff wright

    Nov 12, 2014, 17:46 #61212

    James,there are a few flaws in your analogy between our euphoria over beating Hull in the FAC final and the scousers celebrating their fortuitous win win over AC Milan in the Europen Cup Final in Istanbul. Istanbul. However, I doubt that the scousers would have got quite as euphoric about their fortuitous win over AC Milan in a European Cup final as some of our supporters players, and of course Wenger himself, did in our win over Bruces modest journeymen side, if it were just Hull in a FAC final . There is a difference you know and if you can't see it then that explains where it has all gone wrong for you. So I will point it out to you ,we were expected to beat Hull easily ,are you following this > ? Liverpool were not expected to beat AC Milan,right,come on it's not hard to work out. I can't recall that there was too much excitement when we beat Southampton 1-0 in the 2003 FAC final - a really poor boring easily forgotten final ,tbh most are anyway,even the 3-2 late show against United in the 70s was a boring game - until those last few minutes made it memorable. Everything in football is subjective ,somehow or other though, Wenger has managed to turn his managerial role into some sort of a perceived by some crusade that distances him from the realities that apply to other managers . Supporters like you who buy into Arsene Wenger Illusionism ( the acronym for which is interestingly ARWEIL !) make it possible for him to do this. The reality is that what made the final against Hull exciting was our piss poor usual defending that Wenger himself is responsible for coaching, this was why conceded two early goals to Bruce's side , also cranking up the tension was the added pressure that Wenger 's job depended on him winning the final - it was not just the joy of winning a final that we were expected to win,but Wenger saving his skin that added to the joy . Well, for some... He doesn't do encores though ,so it's just 4th place is a trophy time already this season and another ain't it exciting comments from Wenger around March when we are fighting others for the two minor league spots . Followed by if successful in winning the 4th place trophy after beating West Brom at home in our last game of the season, lots of grinning selfies being posted on Twatter by the usual suspects, minus Plod he says he wants away in January, with champers being squirted around to celebrate the trophy and Wenger claiming that this augurs well for next season... when we can do it all again . Hopefully though we don't have to win our last game away before this happy event and only need to beat West Brom at home or draw , our last away day is United at Old Trafford , they will not want to lose to us and you wouldn't want to count on us beating them if we have to do so...

  43. jjetplane

    Nov 12, 2014, 17:41 #61210

    Amazing stuff CARPGOOnER and cheers for the mention. Wenger g has you have well illustrated sneaked in the side door with the players that were around at the time. Look back at even some of the signings (Petit) and OGl looks so out of place he always looked Photoshopped. During his good decade one of my best memories was going up to Middlesboro and watching Dixon and Kanu have the time of their lives. That was a player thing and we have lost it.

  44. Rocky RIP

    Nov 12, 2014, 17:33 #61209

    People discuss endlessly the topic of when we lost our ability to hold on to leads. One person cited the 2008 4-4 v Sp*rs. I'm sorry but it goes back much, much further than that. Even at our best we threw away leads under Wenger, we just got away with it more because we were so good going the other way. I'm thinking of the 2-2 at WHL in 2004. 2-0 up, in control, the better side and coasting with the title in sight... then a lead blown. We got away with it that day as it ultimately didn't matter, but the pattern was there. And it pre-dates 2004. The 5-4 at WHL may have been great fun, open attacking football, but it highlighted a sloppiness and loose defensive play. There are so many examples I'm exhausted thinking about them. I'm all for open attacking football, but we've rarely had a sensible balance under Wenger in my view. Bombing forward and putting too many players ahead of the ball at 4-2, or 3-2 up with minutes left is what we've always done under Wenger. Running the clock down is agonising as we're just not comfortable with it. Slightly ironic given GG's final years.

  45. goonergocarpfishing

    Nov 12, 2014, 17:06 #61208

    james-jack was not the only one who wanted failure in the cup final,where i work (over 450 staff with plenty of the other lot)arsenal fans were split as to wanting us to win the cup.i too was unsure what i wanted and i guess it was a case of wanting us ARSENAL to win the cup to shut up the other lot at work ,(not just for that but to enjoy that winning feeling again) but also not wanting WENGER to win it as it would give him the chance to carry on managing our club although he is so ARROANT he considers the club his.i like so many arsenal fans feared the worst and so with newl y signed contract in his hand mr wenger continues to not conquer in the league and cups but devide us fans. please list like i have the good and great players he has signed (dont include sir dennis as he was signed by mr D) and the bad and ordinary and you will be surprised.his greatest achievments were when we had seaman,dixon,winters,bould,keown,adams,cole(a player who he wanted to offload to palace for a million so silvinhio could play untill brady threatned to leave the club if this happned so im told) parlour,platt, wrighty and bergkamp none signed by him.he is totaly destroying the spirit of the club by this i mean us the fans.im yet to watch a game for mre than 15 mins on tv this season and have only attended 2 matches so far,soton in the cup and leicester away ..........enuf said please to the fans that want OUR CLUB BACK get them WENGER OUT BANNERS sorted and WENGER OUT CHANTS sung WE WANT WENGER OUT SAY WE WANT WENGER OUT,to jjetplane love what you are saying about GG totaly agree the spirit and togetherness he created were second to none .he was only hampered by the lack of financial support by the club (read tony adams book when GG wanted to sign keane and sutton after winning the cup winners cup) id welcome back GG any day and dont say about his style of football ,for thse who attended from 86 to 91 (only lost 1 game in the league 91) remember everton,forrest away,the other lot so many times,liverpool twice away in 89, west ham away norwich at home so many others all on a tight budget not like now.if wenger had signed 8 years ago he would be long gone with very few reminders of him being here .i totaly agree with merse regards both wenger for the past 6 seasons or so and GG one is undrerated in what he did for the club and the other is clueless .ill leave you to decide what coment was for what manager ...WENGER OUT

  46. jjetplane

    Nov 12, 2014, 16:47 #61206

    We all agree/Graham is better than Wenger. There's one for the Arsenal history books. And Bertie Mee was a better stab at the erudite. Remember doing Chelski 4-1 and all ten of the shed invaded the north bank. Feeling young again.

  47. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 12, 2014, 16:45 #61204

    Unchives, yes indeed ramming it down the anti Arsenal that day made it sweeter alright, that's what we crave again the passion, and even the hurt you could say wenger has coached it out of us, i'm also in the past caring bracket (thanks wenger) and if it hadn't been for all those non Arsenal fans giving it loud that day and laughing at us i wouldn't have cared to much if we'd been beaten, (thanks again wenger).

  48. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Nov 12, 2014, 16:32 #61202

    George Graham's style of football is now very much back in vogue. Tight, solid, expansive when necessary but above all don't give the opposition anything. That 1990/91 side were almost perfection at the art of method football, and don't forget they murdered plenty of sides that season too; 5-0 Villa, 6-1 Coventry, 4-0 Palace and Southampton, and took Liverpool apart 3-0 when they were looking like getting out of sight.

  49. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 12, 2014, 16:21 #61201

    andy1886, in agreement ref Gorgeous George, and yes what's this Arsenal way we keep hearing about, i'd imagine it's more of a reference by some to arsene's way, the first half of his tenure was good power attacking football with a good defence, rolling over everybody but he had the players to help him out then. Now? light weight fairies with tippy tappy sideways going nowhere walking the ball into the net ingrained into them, yes if that's the Arsenal way he/they can keep it.

  50. Danny

    Nov 12, 2014, 16:10 #61200

    Guys, Wenger needs to go. he is old, stale and not even reactive never mind been proactive! defence is a shambles. Chambers was been roasted by jefferson moreno and what did our leader do -**** all. Plus get rid of bouldy too, he is also a fool for not seeing this also unless he is a coward for not challenging the clown. we could have won the game, by at least switching chambers with monreal. Gomis is a big lump who does not score much. You could also see he was going to against us. Also Monk is 30yrs younger and out witted the clueless twit

  51. ManUnited Killer

    Nov 12, 2014, 16:00 #61199

    Arsenal isn't what it used to be or what we desperately want to believe it is.You will have to drop your expectations to make reaching our goals possible.Keep your head up and try to keep the faith and pray for better days. *Wenger's Arsenal-Never Contenders, Always Pretenders*

  52. jjetplane

    Nov 12, 2014, 15:39 #61198

    I loved him as a player and a stick out memory was him and Limpar and the rest all suited up and walking around in the wembley sunshine. My other half was saying what a man GG was. One big guy not to be ****ed with. I agree what he did was hardly humanity crimes and as I grew up watching him play and manage it is hard to unlike. Talking of that season and how we have often discussed how Wenger's first team bossed a game of their own accord, I think of that Pires goal chip against Villa as a defining moment of sheer grit and oozing talent. He has no player bar Sanchez who can do that and that is criminal irresponsibility in the world of football. Could go on - the diminutive Overmars getting the goal at OT. In those days the manager was an afterthought. Maybe he should never have come around the other side of his desk ten years ago. The more we know, the less we see.

  53. Ron

    Nov 12, 2014, 15:20 #61197

    JJ - Indeed it was mate. The 1989 ers get all the rightful glory but the 91 ers were awesome and much better in my opinion. Crying shame that GG allowed himself to be sucked into corruption though he was the scapegoat wasnt he.There are some still in the game now who owe GG big time for taking the fall.GG could have been a better manager than ever Ferguson was in my view. Wenger? Can you imagine him inspiring a team in need of a rousing call to arms?I cant. Wenger wouldnt have done Anfield 1989 and i say that with certainty. He d have bottled it and so would ALL of his teams in my view, inc the class of 2004. Wengers legacy for Arsenal is a fear and surrender culture. It isnt silky football as his acolytes always trot out.

  54. jjetplane

    Nov 12, 2014, 15:06 #61196

    RON that was a great GG season. Remember being at Wimbledon and even the old Makita thing at Wembley when gooners were a right happy mob together. Also remember just managing to get tickets for me and the other half to watch the Coventry demolition that season. Demolished Chelsea and all and remember Wrighty giving his all as we thrashed Palace. That was one 'straight to the opposition's goal' season. And Palace finished third. Southampton this time. GG did them 4-0 that season and if anyone has ever seen how to gee up a team for a win then watch Graham talking to a squad. The man was immense and a class above Wenger. What a chip and a volley he had too! Liverpool and Palce in the mud. Up the real ****ing gunners!

  55. Tony Evans

    Nov 12, 2014, 14:50 #61195

    Bard - therein lies the problem. Wenger, post 2006, has indeed not been an unmitigated disaster, just an enormous under-achievement; but crucially achieving enough to keep Stan happy. I think we need that disaster though to finally get rid of him, as I have had more than enough of the 4th place and last 16 CL money trophies, and can't wait to see us defend properly again.

  56. jjetplane

    Nov 12, 2014, 14:43 #61194

    JAMES I jumped for joy when Hull got their second and hoped they would get at least two more and so today we may not be looking back on the pathetic last week. I don't see any great Arsenal sentiment in your language. Maybe you should get down the lane and take the old man with yer. Bring in DB10 and OVERMARS for the season. They didn't need Wenger to tell them where to kick the ball. They just took it forward, not sideways. Bit like your stance.

  57. Unchives

    Nov 12, 2014, 14:40 #61193

    @ maguiresbridge gooner, I had exactly the same @ my Local Pub, everyone giving it to me and my fellow gooners, however didn't it make victory sweeter? This is what we crave, we are not greedy fans, or lack patience....9 years is a long time in football.

  58. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 12, 2014, 14:23 #61191

    On reading the headline I thought hear we go again another Simon Rose Blog thankfully not. Jack i found myself in much the same position as your self during the final (not in a student bar)but a pub full of jeering not hull fans but man yoo, scousers, and chavs all singing there's only one arsene wenger as we went two down there were plenty of gooners there too but what could we do only sit there and take it. Yes as our equaliser went in we all jumped in unison and boy did we give it and even more as the winner went in, and it most certainly wasn't for wenger it was for our beloved Arsenal Fc and to all the anti Arsenal who were giving it early on but not a peep out of them then, we didn't give a damm about wenger we felt nothing for him who was sitting there when we were two down and very nearly three rocking back and fourth looking clueless and like death warmed up, the only unfortunate bit about the day is it saved his job. Good Article

  59. Graham Simons

    Nov 12, 2014, 14:22 #61190

    BTW I'm NOT knocking Graham. I actually had more pride in his team of players who achieved against the odds such as Copenhagen 1994. In the early days Graham's teams did sort of entertain and we had dear old Rocky mostly to thank for that but the Wenger teams with Bergkamp and Henry entertained in a way I had never seen previous or since. I want balance because between the two of these great managers would be someone who could take us to the next level. In short, I loved Graham because we achieved more than we should. These days we achieve far less than we should and we have only the manager to blame. Hate to say it but I'm a don't care as well. The defeats don't hurt because I don't expect anything less. I'll always have Arsenal in my heart but these days it's like spending the day with an ex where you're occasionally reminded how good it was before she sods off and cheats on you with your best mate for the eleventeenth time.

  60. Unchives

    Nov 12, 2014, 14:16 #61189

    @Bard, what club of Arsenals wealth and stature, allow 9 years of underachievement. What fans of other clubs tolerate the most expensive tickets in world football for such massive underachievement? What other club in World football would have accepted this from any manager. Wenger's quote on moving to the Emirates, we need to compete with the biggest clubs in world football...."The best teams have the best players"......What happened?

  61. Hibeegunner

    Nov 12, 2014, 14:07 #61188

    I think the general feeling by most supporters is that Wenger's time is up. We have a board of directors who seem happy with him because they have no balls to sack him so until the fans talk with their feet and stop going we will be stuck with a past your sell by date manager because it seems all that matters to them is MONEY.

  62. Bard

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:54 #61187

    Reading these posts I oddly feel all akb. I do think Wenger should leave but it hasnt been an unmitigated disaster, more a massive under achievement. Some here are over egging it a bit, come on man up Its all a bit of a hysyerical frenzy.

  63. Nick T

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:53 #61186

    Lot of talk on various sites about arranging protests against AW. I think it could have real impact especially once the mass media get hold of it? Of course if a reporter were to ask him about it after the next borefest Im sure he'd just say 'I didn't see it!'...

  64. Ron

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:29 #61183

    Graham - 'boring arsenal was a myth created by jealous fans. GG didnt bore until 1993 till his sacking. His side of 91 was better than Wengers of 2004 in my view and have the two play a 3 match round robin and id expect GGs lads to come out on top 2 games to 1. Done Howe bored. GG wasnt an exponent of boring football. Anyway, id take bore fest football now if had guts character drive and passion with it, win lose or draw. This feeble lot with their pass pass tip aimless tippy tap tap bore me to death and have done for some years and the so called Wenger way had a tiny shelf life about 10 years ago.

  65. Tony Evans

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:28 #61182

    Bob / Unchives - It's an awful dilemma isn't it? I still care but desperately want Wenger out and reconciling the two is virtually impossible. Head says Arsenal losing is best because it may do the trick and get Wenger out, but heart makes that difficult because of the years of support and love of the club. Most of us know that Arsenal will be better off without Wenger and it is just a case of how much we are prepared to suffer to make it happen.

  66. cyril

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:28 #61181

    The question is this: Is Wenger bungle or zippy. Bless him!

  67. chris dee

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:21 #61180

    I don't believe fans who say they don't care. I do believe that many fans have become indifferent due to the performances we witnessed last week repeating similar meltdowns over the last few years. Listening to friends of mine not bothering to watch the Swansea match because the result was predictable is very sad.But indifference is not a word that should be associated with supporting a club, which shows that the whole club, Directors,Manager players (not you at the moment Alexis)need a collective kick in the balls to change this submissive,naive,cowardly D N A we have in the team.

  68. jeff wright

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:18 #61178

    Unchives, you undermine your case by admitting that playing all of our games at home ,prior to the Wembley Semi was a big plus for us. As was City tamely folding up at home to Wigan,I watched that game on TV and to say that the Cirty players were not that fussed about losing is an understatement . I suspect though that they may have to take the FAC more seriously this time around along with United and Liverpool. was at the Everton game and tbh I still don't know how we won it !In the away game in the Prem they beat us easily 3-0 - deja vu their fellow scousers who lost to us in the cup but easily beat us on their own patch in the league. Wenger doesn't win many away games in the league, especially against top sides , and he can't expect to get every game at home again in the FAC .Anyway it's not so important to win the cup this season for the old master of illusion as it was last term and he has a tougher task getting his 4th place spot this time around than he did last season after 8 wins in 11 played,just 4 wins this time and 8 points less on the board makes things a leetle less certain,although no doubt our great speeeerit will see us through.

  69. Ron

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:18 #61177

    Ditto Tony. Never thought id feel so indifferent to our results either. Reverses like Swansea prompt a shoulder shrug from me. I actually expect it. The Clubs stale, featureless metronome type players, no characters, no passion, no belief, no controversies, dramaless. The whole place is a choir boys paradise. Where did Arsenal go? Quite sad isnt it.

  70. andy1886

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:17 #61176

    Graham - I'm a bit confused about your description of the GG years - sure the last two or three fit that description but the first five or six years had us playing entertaining attacking football based on a solid defence. We certainly didn't play only counter attacking football nor were we boring at that stage. Frequently topping the goal scoring charts and with Smiffy winning the Golden Boot twice. We used to overpower other sides and dominate them. Exactly what is the 'Arsenal Way'? Is it the early Wenger sides that again were powerful and broke quickly? Is it the later possession based sides that flattered to deceive? I loved the former but the latter bored me to tears as they tried to walk the ball in the net. If that's the 'Arsenal Way' with all due respect, you can keep it.

  71. Gaz

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:17 #61175

    Sadly I'm very much in the "Dont care" category now. Have been for some time. Never thought it would come to this but its just gone on for too long now...

  72. Unchives

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:08 #61174

    @ Tony Evans, well said, I'm not quite in the "Dont care" category yet, but im not far off!

  73. bob matthews

    Nov 12, 2014, 13:05 #61173

    Oh Tony, So true what you say. Not that many years ago Arsenals result was the difference between a great weekend or a poor one for me. I still attend and i still want us to win but i feel that i now display the same lack of enthusiasm and passion that is often demonstrated by the players. I remember attending finals when you could almost taste the euphoria or the bitterness depending on the result. I think most of us now just sigh and shrug our shoulders. The club and its management have worn us down. Very sad.

  74. Tony Evans

    Nov 12, 2014, 12:33 #61169

    James - From my experience the vast majority of supporters who now sit in the 'couldn't care less' camp are former die-hard fans who have had their Arsenal loving souls driven out of them by Wenger's stubborn refusal to address the glaring team deficiencies that scupper our chances time and time again. You can criticise all you want and tell people to F off down the Lane but I came close myself to wanting Arsenal to lose the FA Cup final, and admit that if I had had a cast iron guarantee that defeat would have meant Wenger leaving I would gladly have taken a loss. My best mate (also a fan since 1970) actually did want us to lose and believe me he is Arsenal to the core. That is the level of despair Wenger has driven so many real fans to.

  75. I Wish I Could Be Sid James Everyday

    Nov 12, 2014, 12:32 #61168

    Never mind all this repetition....where's the podcast?

  76. Graham Simons

    Nov 12, 2014, 12:21 #61167

    I'm sorry but how can you lambast Wenger but then not give proper credit where it's due? The so called Arsenal way of playing didn't exist before Wenger. Our modus operandi before Arsene was to defend deep and hit teams on the break which is why we earned the nickname Boring Arsenal. I was brought up on George Graham teams and I lament the loss of a properly organised defence. I want neither a Graham or a Wenger next but a man who can offer us balance - for me, that's Klopp.

  77. Unchives

    Nov 12, 2014, 12:09 #61166

    Dont undermine our FA Cup win, we thoroughly deserved the FA Cup even though we made heavy weather of it in the final, Remember Wigan Knocked out Man City at City. We had by far the hardest fixtures, although they were home draws.I think you are correct, it saved Wenger's job, however I don't think lightning will strike twice, one decent team drawn away in the 3rd round and we will be out!

  78. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 12, 2014, 12:02 #61165

    Like you any joy I felt once we eventually stumbled over the line and won the FA Cup was tempered almost immediately as I knew that Wenger would now sign a new contract. That FA Cup win in hindsight was probably a curse, because had Hull won the pressure on Wenger to resign would have been intense. We will never know if that would have been the end, but even if it hadn't, the not won a trophy for ten years would now be doing the rounds, adding fuel to our current fire! I don't agree with your analogy about Pardew though, because without protest, you are guaranteed more clueless Wenger years.

  79. James

    Nov 12, 2014, 11:58 #61164

    If you couldnt care less why are you on here? If you dont care about winning the FA Cup then trot off down seven sisters and take a seat there! I was in Wembley stadium for the cup final and there was lots of rightful frustration, but I dont recall anyone saying they wanted us to lose! Are you mad? want to lose a cup final? What is wrong with you? When Liverpool came from behind in the final a few years back against west ham it was lauded as a great comeback. They done the whole istanbul thing and its all they ever talk about....Why when we win the FA cup are people complaining we didnt win it well enough? Winning is winning!!! We arent the best in the league any more and yes the manager in my opinion is in decline. BUT...to moan about actually winning a trophy? jog on will ya? if you won the lottery but it wasnt on a rollover i imagine youd not bother handing your ticket in then? MELTS!!!

  80. johnkelly

    Nov 12, 2014, 11:52 #61163

    whats new except the defenceive back room team are moaning about wengers tactics. sack the back room team i would certainly like to see a new defenceive back room team of high quality. and buy two defenceive midfielders with pace and strenghth and above all a good head that can read the game i also think we need new no 1 keeper then problem solved we must do this.

  81. AMG

    Nov 12, 2014, 11:36 #61161

    I'm not better than that... Wenger out! Good piece by the way, I felt very similar emotions to you watching in a bar and hoping for a thrashing to see him off, couldn't bring myself to care that we were 2-0 down - I used to be a shaky, nervous mess watching Arsenal, now I couldn't care less, thanks Arsene.