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1. jjetplane

   Nov 18, 2014, 12:40 #61512

   Having attempted to unread that, best that the comedy be left to HICCUP and RON. It's all about making it easy and the funny bit follows. Good old Anchovies (see midfield) ...

2. Badarse

   Nov 18, 2014, 7:54 #61509

   Morning maguiresbridge, my little omelette. (anchovy one for jj). The slogan/speech goes back much further than that, back to the days of Shakespeare in his very own omelette, 'Hamlet'. Charged by the ghost to put things right, (AMG's/WOB's), he laments his duties thus, 'The time is out of joint, (even the one jj is smoking), Oh cusped spite, that ever I was born to set it right.' Been listening to Radio 4's 'Hiccup' shows, of course they bill it as, 'Hancock', but it is Hiccup-through and through. Bit of bad planning, I am at a sports dinner presentation Saturday evening, so first half on Ga Ga as I primp and preen-waxing the moustache takes an absolute age darlings, then ear phones to meet and greet, and during opening gambits. I just think, 'Protocol? Ashley Cole. So sod it! Good old Arsenal.

3. maguiresbridge gooner

   Nov 17, 2014, 23:50 #61507

   Hiccup, was that slogan not been widely used ten years ago? and here we still are, maybe it was the same person.

4. maguiresbridge gooner

   Nov 17, 2014, 23:05 #61506

   Ron, yes OGL always seems to come up smelling of roses (even with all the bull****) he has that knack, especially when it's most needed, and none of us will be surprised if this weekend against man yoo (as much as it will be welcome)it will be another one of those occasions.

5. jjetplane

   Nov 17, 2014, 22:21 #61505

   Good old Anchovies.

6. Badarse

   Nov 17, 2014, 22:13 #61504

   On the cusp of a dream-it's my bedtime. By the way Ron, that pizza was an organic, vegetarian, whole wheat flour one, ha ha. Oh do I like artichokes on mine. If you want a nice handmade one, jjetplane is your man. He is famed for his 'Stargazy Pizza'.

7. Hiccup

   Nov 17, 2014, 21:04 #61503

   Rumour is if we win on Saturday, the players will strip their tops off to reveal t-shirts with the slogan "on the cusp..." Expected to be a big hit in the armoury. Whoever dreamt that slogan up is gonna be set up for life with the royalties.

8. AMG

   Nov 17, 2014, 20:47 #61502

   Wenger should have gone up to Fergy after the OT fix and kicked his arse,he then should have gone into old mother Riley's changing room and shot him.Following that he should have curled one down on the OT center circle before setting off a huge bomb that completely wiped out OT.He'd be a legend then.

9. jeff wright

   Nov 17, 2014, 20:35 #61501

   Old Mother Riley had a rep for awarding United dodgy penalties, so when Campbell stuck a foot out in front of Rooney running into the goal area, he needed no second invitation to go down as though shot by a sniper.Even though there was no contact made on him. Horsehead was always mental when playing against us and his GBH on Cashley should have earned him 3 months in the calaboose let alone a red card. The collapse from being Invincibles to also rans in the games following the end of the unbeaten run though stemmed from Wenger himself,and Ron is right that the result at OT was the primary source for this strange about turn in the fortunes of that side . Wenger instead of using the injustice to anger and fire up our players used it instead to make them feel sorry for themselves, and , as was to be the case after the Brum defeat that ended our title charge , it was weak leadership from him.In fact he has looked weak and exposed ever since the unbeaten run ended . That silly 'guard of honour' that he put on for Sir Ferguson and his merry men,including Van Pursestrings was more weak kneed leadership,much is made of the 'guard of Honour' that Ferguson laid on for us once,but he did that because we had stopped Liverpool winning the title,if it had been him then he would have told Wenger to **** off ! There was no similarity with us stopping Liverpool from winning another title and Ferguson doing likewise to City. Taking account of the OT ambush that ended our chance of 50 unbeaten Wenger should have blanked Ferguson's demands for a 'guard of honour ' and got our players fired up to beat United,instead they produced a listless performance allowing United to leave with a 1-1 draw with Persie rubbing their noses in it by scoring the United goal. All really rather pathetic.

10. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 20:34 #61500

    Ha ha. Good lad Rocky. I dont like them teams either buddy but i respect every teams right to play the game as they see fit, aesthetically attractive or not. Im so f-----g fed up of my Arsenal being a team of tender flowers though mate. Its the game today and the teeth have been drawn from the game to a great extent. I know all that but to have a Coach who encourages us to weep and whinge for so many years, its purgatory. I sooner Fabregas have been up front and lobbed a chair at Ferguson to be honest, admit he did it and take a 6 month ban. not lob a bit of pastry and then run away and keep stum for 10 years. We ve got passion on here though mate havent we, even if there's precious little at N7!!

11. Rocky RIP

    Nov 17, 2014, 20:24 #61499

    @Ron - I take your points and agree to an extent. I suppose my only, and obvious, point is that had we had a stronger ref things would have been different. A classic example being Paul Durkin at old Trafford for our title decider in 2002. Man U, rightly or wrongly, had the same tactics as the 2004 game. Get stuck into Arsenal early and break up their rhythm. Play on the margins of what's allowed until the cards come out. Accept Arsenal will pass you off the pitch if you don't get in their faces. Only in this game, the ref stamped it out early. Scholes, Phil Neville and Keane were all booked early on and their game plan had effectively failed. So whilst I agree we need some back bone back in the side and should never be allowed to be bullied and need players who will fight for each other and have an over my dead body attitude, I've no time for the Stokes, Alladyce, Hughes, Bolton, etc sides. Talentless football. As for Cesc throwing soup/pizza over sir whisky nose - GOOD.

12. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 20:05 #61498

    Rocky - its a game that those of us there wont ever forget isnt it. Debate it in 50 years time we could. All good points that you make as ever my friend though.To me the fouling needed the Arse team to dish dome back. It wasnt as bad as has since been made out to me mate. Had it have all gone overboard and another OT 1990 war happened, so be it, If the reds had have been brandished they would have had some as well as us. Ruin the game, get dirty and get a result, even a draw would have done on days like that for me, be it junior football or the PL for me. Im like a busted record I know, when i say that it was mainly what followed that finished Wenger for me. The great 6 month sulk in and all who wanted to join in could! He then sulked at every team who ever put a tackle in for the next 7 years. Bolton Stoke Blackburn Wolves . Every yr the same old droning ..... davies kicked us, Gamst Pedersen cheated us, Stoke play 'rugby' Karl Henry elbowed us. Boo hoo its not fair, protect my children , let us play, they rigged the pitch, and on and on and on. Pathetic. Im sure your Dad must told you as mine did, the golden rule and right or wrong its one ive always stood by. Never, ever let a bully see hes hurt you.If hes stronger than you, take the hits and just get up. Then, you wait and if needs be, you wait some more and then some more after that. Your time will come when your stronger than him, then you hit the b-----rd back, but twice as hard and then if you can, hit him again. Served me well in my own most fearful experiences mate. Its not to get angry, its to get even. Wenger to me led his orchestra and played the opposite tune, Its why ive never liked the man. Hes always stood for everything Arsenal have never stood for nor wanted to stand for before his time. No way would a GG team have acted in a tunnel like we were allowed to at OT that day and no way would they have stropped like we did. And they certainly would nt have had 50 not out shirts on!Wengers a man of his time though. he s made for todays powder puff sanitized, sneaky, ege of the rules cheat laced football where the participants all prefer moaning at instead of mugging the opponent. Not for me.

13. Hiccup

    Nov 17, 2014, 19:34 #61497

    Baddie, those holland/Germany games in their day were always on the edge, certainly remember rijkard gobbing on voeller. Bit like how our rivalry used to be with United. The bad guys used to get the better of the Dutch flair, and when we used to play United all neutrals wanted arsenal to beat the bad guys. Can complain about Riley, but be honest, what we'd all give to see another blood and thunder match this weekend with personal battles all over the pitch. However, I fear it will be all hugs and kisses in the tunnel pre match, and not a pizza in sight with all the health that there is in the game now.

14. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 17, 2014, 19:26 #61496

    jw, it was crazy alright, a good example of wenger at his most craziest that's why it keeps been brought up and referred to (and the only one who couldn't see it was him or he did and it was just arrogance that he just carried on and did nothing about it the latter i'd say) much to the annoyance of his followers i'd suspect who'd rather forget about those times and that they were airbrushed out of history.

15. Rocky RIP

    Nov 17, 2014, 18:58 #61495

    @Ron - with respect, I fail to see how we weren't professional enough to win. If the ref lets one side get away with repeated fouls and the other is booked at the first opportunity, it's virtually impossible to win. Look at Nevilles's lunging foul on Reyes, both feet off the ground. In today's game that's a debatable red. Outcome - no yellow. van Nistleroy's stud scrape on Ashley Cole was a red car offence. Ditto Freddie being denied a clear goal scoring opportunity by Ferdinand. I'm really not sure what any side can do about it if the rules are different for both sides. The moment Arsenal fouled anyone out came the cards (eg. Cole) Anyway, I need to move on. The thing is, as you imply, that was the day it turned for us and we've never recovered properly.

16. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2014, 18:41 #61494

    You are not alone Rocky RIP, it still rankles with me, but then again, I am an old rankly. Bard, yes sometimes, as with the other carpetbaggers at Liverpool, things can be changed, everything we talk of has changed. Evolution is generally better my friend, just ask those being murdered still after the Arab Spring, however there is a case to be made on occasions. They made one for the removal of Saddam Hussein, (not in my name), and look at the ramifications there.

17. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 18:30 #61493

    Rocky - Yes, It was a game that may well have been 'fixed' No doubt. Riley was crap in every game he ever reffed. We were all angry mate but realism in the cold light of day says that we were prepared, no doubt, but we weren't professional enough to win. True too. Never a pen, and Ferdinand should have seen red. What was Reyes doing been picked then if that's true? Ask Wenger id suggest. Arsenal lost their nerve that day and got carried away by their own anger. Between the Pen and the 2nd goal they had given up. The tunnel incident testifies to their mindset. Its OK being angry but had Arsenal have played the same way had the roles been reversed we d have loved it. Come the Feb game 2005, gung ho and anger got us beat 2-4 at home. It was like a continuance of the game 50.Bad management.Tantrums never win titles. End of.

18. Bard

    Nov 17, 2014, 18:25 #61492

    Yes Ron they are rubbish but we are worse. I agree it could go the other way but there are players with cojones in their side which tilts it for me. Baddie I like the idea of anarchic vandalism as I nearly always prefer revolution to evolution especially when you have a dicatorship.My feeling about our club is that it needs a complete overhaul. Just removing Wenger and replacing him with Wenger mark 2 wont make any difference. The whole culture of the club needs changing. Maybe Stan would sell up although hes not known for selling but Liverpool got rid of Hick and Co so it can be done.

19. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2014, 18:16 #61491

    Evening Hiccup, here's a little story for you, and yes I do have lots of little stories, so many they call me 'block of flats'. Oh dear, posting with jeff does this to me. My brother is a naturalised Dutchman. On his hippie travels throughout Europe he came to a place he fell in love with in the north of Holland-Groningen, over forty years ago. It's a university city so many young people live there and it's very vibrant. Anyway a few peeps from the UK gravitated there and at a party a couple of lads were talking of getting a hot potato stall in the Grote Maart, 'Spud-U-Like', (sounds like Finsbury Joe), were on the up back then. My brother told them they couldn't sell hot potatoes in the Netherlands as it is still symbolic of the German occupation when the population nearly starved to death living off scraps, and in particular potatoes. It still carried the stigma back then. Rest is history as the two lads set up, didn't sell a spud, went broke, and came back home. Not many people know that, (in my best Michael Caine voice).

20. Rocky RIP

    Nov 17, 2014, 18:13 #61490

    Hiccup - I'd suggest the catalyst for it kicking off was the scandalous refereeing of Mike Riley. Re-watch the match with as neutral an eye as is humanly possible. I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but Riley was a disgrace and a coward who was petrified of giving a decision against that bully Ferguson's side. Ferguson managed to have unfavourable refs de-selected and Riley was ideal for him. Man U got away with absolute murder. Apart from Reyes's dodgy ankle being targeted by Man U players (later admitted by Gary Neville) and their renowned foul rotation, they should have had two red cards (the scything stud scrape to Ashley Cole's knee was outrageous) and Campbell didn't touch that diving cheat Rooney for their penalty. As you can tell, that game still makes me angry so let's not remember it as though we were complacent and somehow got what we deserved. We were well prepared and played well enough to win it (as you say.)

21. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 18:12 #61489

    Hi Hiccup lad. Yes the Dutch we re a great side. Cryuff, Ari Haan, Neeskens, Jonny Rep and Co. The hate emanating from WW2 has simmered now but its still there, but back then it was still hot and bubbling. They went 1 up and show boated. Germany always knew what was coming, rode it out and then guys like Breitner, Beckanbaur Muller and Netzer (possibly the best middle man i ever saw live at Wembley in 72 when he took Eng apart in the euros)galvanised them and they just slowly crushed the spirit out of Holland. Then as now Ger knew how to win big games.They say Holl were the best team never to win the WC. They were very skilled and 'total football' was wonderful but for me their arrogance that day meant they weren't a 'great' team. Great teams aren't arrogant in a haughty, caustic way like that, a great teams skill and ability feeds a natural respectful arrogance. That team of Wengers 2002-2004 were arrogant in a way that undid them ultimately. It was a very good team, never great. It reflected Wengers personality. He thought he had it all, knew it all and had done it all when in fact he d actually done f--k all. They show boated at OT that day. At OT of all places! It wasnt the best Utd team ever but you dont go there and do that. Utd picked up on it and weren't having that shi te at home. The media coverage has never since mentioned Wengers tactical approach that day, just the Nevilles kicking of that weak kneed shrinking violet Reyes and to be honest it was never that bad. Phil Nev cdt kick my grannie s cat. If that shirt rumour was right and i have heard that, then if id have been Wengers Chief Exec id have carpeted him and threatened him with the sack for it.F-----g disgrace if true but typical of his smug tolerance. By then he was so wrapped up in all things Fergie his own detest had got the better of him. Fergie always knew it and won so many games by tapping into it, the wily old blighter.Wenger last all sense of proportion a long time ago as far as Utd go and its been Ferguson whos has brought him to heel. Jose Mourinho just treads on his neck and twists his heel on him to finish him off. The sooner the Club slings his haughty arrogant arse out of the back door the better we ll be.

22. Hiccup

    Nov 17, 2014, 17:36 #61488

    Interesting posts today guys. Ron, I saw a documentary pre the World Cup about the Dutch in 74 which was intriguing and the hate that obviously existed between the two nations. I think arsenal were overconfident for match 50, and there was the rumour that our players had the t shirts with '50 not out' under their tops. As I understand it Fergie got drift of it, which was pretty much his team talk done. At the end, again I don't know the truth of it all, he got his players to all try and change shirts which I think was the catalyst for it kicking off. As for the score, no doubt Westie will call it correctly after the game has finished, but as said, I think it could be anywhere in between 4-0 and 0-4.

23. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 17, 2014, 17:34 #61487

    Bard, would any of us be surprised, it reminds me of that dance number from the 80's I think it was 5 7 0 5 and there's no reply.

24. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 17:24 #61486

    Bard - Yes mate. I agree. A tonking by Utd is a possibility but the fact is, theyre only as good as the forwards. The rest of their team is quite frankly bloody rubbish as i see them.If the forwards do it on the day though (and i fear De Maria could tear our right side a new ars----e), then Arsenal can kiss it goodbye i suspect. Wengers a jammy sod though. He often gets a result when he really needs one and his myth has yet another oxygen injection, as all those who are still undecided once more go into ' hes going to do it, we re OK after all' mode.

25. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 17, 2014, 17:16 #61485

    reboot, yes that powder can be kept dry now, and no doubt it will.

26. Finsbury Boy

    Nov 17, 2014, 16:20 #61484

    Interesting hearing about those Rangers friendlies. I was at the Jack Kelsey testimonial in 1963, game finished 2-2 but had a sensational start. Jack Kelsey didn't play but kicked off the game. He booted into the Rangers half and the ball was returned I think after about 2 passes to Jim Baxter who strode from his own half into our midfield and slammed one in from about 30 yards I always remember it one of the best goals I ever saw even though it was a friendly. Alan Skirton scored our two. OH God I am even starting to look at him with affection compared to some of our lot now.

27. jjetplane

    Nov 17, 2014, 16:16 #61483

    I am up for a Welbeck 2 goal salvo and one from the usual source. Then I am up for OGL to say he is leaving in January and taking all of his toys (Diaby action man) with him. I understand the game will finish 3-5 with a late flurry from the Madchester galacticos ..... You could not make it up Hombre.

28. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2014, 16:08 #61482

    And as the coffin lid creaks shut, in all his sepulchral majesty, the Dark Lord rises. Welcome Bard. Thing is champ, if it was destined to be the way you suggest and all things are possible-why look at the support for UKIP that sleep advisory party-then there would be no trampling over the ashes, we would all lose. All the vandals ever left us as their legacy was a misbegotten expression for blind destruction. On that note we welcome on stage jeff wright with his eyes shut!

29. Bard

    Nov 17, 2014, 15:38 #61481

    Baddie have caught up with the posts now and have respected Hiccups request for a 24 hour truce. Now that's over back to buiness, I'm not the Dark Lord for nothing.In fact it's so dark where I come from that I can't see a f****** thing, which makes me well qualified to comment on matters Arsenal. Baddie reason and sermons won't stop the hordes of Moanies trampling over what remains of central command. It's just a matter of time. I liken it to the end of the Roman Empire. And it could all kick off on Saturday if it goes t*** up against Man U. The thought of dear old Monreal against RVP and Rooney, Chambo against de Maria, doesn't bode well. Ron I think you are being charitable to say the least. We have conceded 5 goals in our last 2 games and are complete rubbish in defence. I feel a thrashing coming on. Baddie it may fall to you to read the boss his last rites.

30. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2014, 15:11 #61480

    The more I look at the game Ron the more another dreaded draw looks likely to be the outcome of it all, with both managers scared to lose and lots more points to play for in their mutual pursuit of 3rd or 4th place. It will be interesting to see how Sanchez reacts now to having to accept that this is all his efforts will bring him, after Wenger the old master of illusion ,had convinced him that he would be contesting the title. At least Gaal said from the start that this was beyond his side,so no broken dreams there for the players that he signed to brood over . RVP is also in the mix of course and nothing has changed with Wenger that would convince him that he was wrong to part company with him. .

31. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 14:18 #61478

    Jeff - like you mate, i reckon LVG is a bulls---ter and the PL has been a shock to him plus the size of renewing that tired old squad of his has heavily dawned on him. Him and Wenger should be soul buddies and sit together on Saturday. Theres bound to a LVG/AW press love in pre match. Maybe even advise each other on each others tactics and substitutions mid match, such has been the lack of intensity and bite in Arse/Utd games for the last 6 years?

32. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2014, 14:04 #61477

    It's a tough one to call Ron because of the Gaal factor,I have not been that impressed by him ,but as you say he does have the advantage of knowing how Wenger will play. I suspect that Gaal will go for the more defensive ,hit 'em on the break ,approach that he used away to City ,this could cause us problems with Wenger's gung-ho tactics leaving the clowns in our defence exposed to quick United counter-attacks when we lose possession with everyone charging forward .Even if we score first Wenger will still have us bombing on up until the last kick,we may need to score 4 to get a draw!

33. jjetplane

    Nov 17, 2014, 13:33 #61476

    BADDIE was at one of those Rangers games as a tiny skinhead hiding behind my big brothers. For once they were in awe too of those Glasgow boys. Forward many years and I spent some time watching Scottish football with post punk skins and they were a tad mental too! RON love how you describe that general emotion of football. Even if Camus was the Algerian goalkeeper and Socrates played for Brazzille, there is no philosophy to it. But if you can chip the goalie while you're scoring then you do become one of Plato's kings. Bobby 'the duck' Pires understood that.

34. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 13:12 #61475

    Jeff - tough to call that at the week end. So true though that its a TV company fest in the making. Much depends on LVG take on how it plays out. Wengers take on it is irrelevant as he ll be same old, same old so If LVG is anything like Fergie was he ll know what type of set up to go with so to catch Arsenal out esp down our weak left side. Thing is LVG is under pressure so he might try and play tighter and take a draw, even though hes up against the N7 keystone cops knowing full well the Wellbeck factor vis own pitiful rearguard. If he just goes for it though and plays 2 up top i can see Utd winning 2 or even 3 -1. If he doesn't, i can see Arsenal just nicking it 1-0 or 2-1 but perhaps more likely the draw 1-1. Its hard to see why any top team doesn't just go for it v Arsenal these days. The defence will crack as sure as night following day and they wont at all fancy Rooney and RVP with a little bit of Falcao to cope with as well. The sight of them in the tunnel is likely to create mass collective diarrhoea amongst Merter and Co.For a few years now the Arsenal have won games at home because teams have still been wary of the myth that we can still play scintillating football on a good day so they've just played to keep what they start with. Utd, Chelsea and Co seen through the myth years back, even Moyes never fell for it as you say. The lesser sides now all think they can score against and beat us now.

35. Bard

    Nov 17, 2014, 13:05 #61474

    Ahoy shipmates. I jumped ship over the weekend and went to watch England play the Springboks. Refreshing to watch something completely different even if the result was depressingly the same. Meanwhile I hear rumours that Wenger is trying a new system for the Man U game,1-0-4-6 it's called the suicide formation. The full backs push up as wingers but don't bother tracking back because it's too tiring. Everyone bombs forward and stays there, Chesney belts it high up the middle and everyone runs after it. Apparently it was a system successfully used by Hackneys under 5s between 1935/36. The boss says he expects a high scoring game !!!!

36. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2014, 12:40 #61472

    Badarse, the clowns are already on and performing silly antics for the amusement of the crowd .The clowns are otherwise called our defence. The question is,what will Arsene do about it? At least he is faced with an equally hilarious set of clowns that pose as defenders for Gaal's United at the weekend . It looks like being another school playground type encounter of let's see who can score the most goals that is so beloved by the TV companies . Tbh, this game could end up with anyone of 3 possible results . Only the brave, or foolhardy , would wager big money on what the the outcome of it all will be . At least no one cam claim that the midweek International malarkey caused a lack of sharpness in the final third,and with us desperately needing points and Arsene a good result, surely we will not be playing with the handbrake on. It should all be more fun than a chimps tea-party with Danny Boy having a point to prove . I was disappointed last season in our performances against Moyes United ,so no excuses will suffice not that this will of course stop Arsene from dreaming them up if things go wonky again. If he wins the match then this will of course confirm that he has been right all along and that bad luck and Taurus being on the cusp of Gemini in conjunction with a full moon was to blame for the bad results previously.

37. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2014, 12:08 #61470

    The whole Wenger myth is an illusion Ron, as I have said before he is the master of illusion in a chameleon type of way changing the aspects of his illusions to fit the circumstances that prevail. One recent example was his claim that he would commit suicide if he thought that after playing only 10 games we were out of the title race.( He is still with isn't he? )Wenger then went into one quoting mathematical stats to show that we , according to him, could still win the Prem . As though just mathematics had anything to do with this. That is just one example of Wenger spin and illusionism. Two days later , after 11 games played, and another 2 goal lead blown , he held his hands up and admitted that we were out of the title race. You couldn't make it up.

38. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 11:11 #61469

    Hi Jeff - Baddies bang on the money too with his 'illusion precedes delusion' mantra in context of AFC and AW. I'm of the view those who still see no problem with Wenger continuing in that job are all happily somewhere on that spectrum , most of them crowded at or well toward the latter reaches of it!

39. Ron

    Nov 17, 2014, 11:01 #61468

    DW - Hi mate. Yes, i think all of was were pro Arsene at one time. Ive a lot of time for Jeffs opinion when he refers to the CC Final in 07 V Chelsea as the start of the end. For me, that team Wenger put out that day v a Mourinho Chelsea at its remorseless best was his vanity and self indulgence of the worst type at the expense of the team and Club. He then moaned that his youngsters werent 'protected'by the ref! His vanity in game 50 at OT contributed to the loss that day too. He went there wanting to win and sort of humiliate Fergie in doing so. His tactics were rash that day no matter that Utd played it rough (though nothing that hard enough players couldnt have coped with in my view). It reminded me of the Holland V Germany WC Final in 1974. Holland were a far better team but winning wasnt enough. They wanted to humiliate Germany (the idiots!). Ger were having none of it and Holland deservedly lost as Hollands hubris was shattered. OT on that day reminded of that day and the antics afterwards plus the 6 months of mardy arsed sulking that followed was quite pathetic. 2011 at OT was the last straw for me. I think most top Coaches of a supposedly top Club would have at least offered to resign after an 8-2 mauling. At Arsenal though, not even a ripple.Wenger brought to account? Not a chance!

40. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2014, 10:35 #61467

    jeff!!!! We agree on something! There in the Big Top trumpet fanfare sounds, drum rolls follow, and Baddie and jeff, holding hands, leap off the platform, performing leg scissor movements and mock running away from each other as they plummet into the safety net below. The Badarse circus troupe will have a new act added to their repertoire for next season's tour dates. Bring on the clowns! Now you are going to be awkward and ask what we do about it.

41. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2014, 10:17 #61466

    Your description of life today exactly mirrors the way many see AFC being run by Stan and Arsene Baddie!

42. Charlie George Orwell

    Nov 17, 2014, 9:06 #61465

    I remember my Dad saying once that on days of Arsenal v Rangers games, the gutters of Holloway Road were awash with blood. An exagerration sure, but the level of violence seen at these fixtures (and/or a decision by the Met police?) saw an end to these 'friendlies'.

43. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2014, 8:57 #61463

    Good morning Rocky RIP. I saw your post on the other page and have a little item for you. You posted of the waiter delivering food and drink to someone during the Wembley game, and him blocking the view as he served. Yes it is endemic with most things now my friend, especially footie. We lost the threads back during the Bitch's days, when cosmetic coverings disguised the dearth of what lay beneath. Walk into any store and the trickery is self-evident. Grand, shiny boxes of toys and games. Startling coloured depictions on the lid, with a few pressed bits of plastic hidden within. Illusion precedes delusion buddy. Give the mugs 'glitz'. Sadly we lap it up. A diet of drivel on TV with Cowell, and Big Brother. Trashy rags like the Sun and Sport. Advertising brainwashing the young that they should have this because they are 'worth it', the not so young 'needing' a 'once in a lifetime' holiday annually. Crowded roads but an economy requiring more cars, and a mentality which believes a two litre of scummy 'Coke' is twice as good for a child as a one litre bottle. They hijacked our club along with all this superficial cant. A slither of light , for you seek it out and celebrate it wherever you stumble across it. You will see the connection as I explain. In a nearby village there is an old fashioned 'picture house', a cinema no less. Where an aged couple run it with a little help from one or two younger people. It is very quaint, and I love the place. You can buy a cuppa Rosie and take it into the cinema and drink it in your seat. Served in a cup and on a saucer. Oh boy, our apathy has been our undoing, I guess generally we get what we deserve. Looking forward to our next table-dancing skit at the Xmas Panto, I have the pith helmets on order.

44. Mathew

    Nov 17, 2014, 8:48 #61462

    Well Ramgun, thanks for the comparison and its getting worsened after every season. I am surprised with Wenger's adamancy in continuing in his job year after year.

45. reboot

    Nov 17, 2014, 8:43 #61461

    Good news folks, Debuchy set to come back at Christmas. No need for Stan and Wenger to splash the cash for another defender in January. He can keep it in the war chest that he is building for the next manager. I'm off to work with a smile on my face.

46. DW Thomas

    Nov 17, 2014, 1:23 #61459

    Ron, agree totally and meant to include that bit. A new coach should be given the power and control,but with set goals,that if not attained mean firing. One, true competition for,the title. Measurable by atnleast a top two,or three finish within a certain number of points of the champs. Two, better results against the other title contenders. Three, better defensive displays with few capitulations or throwing away of leads. 4, better purchases to fill necessary positions for team balance. 5, more players like Sanchez. His attitude should rule the club. The control Wenger has had was not much different than that of Fergie. But he won consistently and built many good teams. They won titles almost routinely it seemed. Glad you returned man. You and other decade long followers really do rub off on many of us younger Goons. I enjoy all posts, and like to think of myself as a pragmatic pessimist that loves being proved wrong. I can celebrate an Arsenal win with the best of em. Shame we don't see enough good ones these days! AKB or WOB, we deserve more from our club!

47. KK

    Nov 17, 2014, 0:13 #61458

    I've been supporting Arsenal since roughly the 97-98 season. I started because my interest in football developed in France; Arsenal had a French Manager; and a number of players from the French national selection played there. Furthermore my father had a pen-pal from London in the early 50's who used to send him A Boy's Book of Soccer, which he hung on to and which I used to leaf through, so I knew the Arsenal name. In other words Arsenal already had built an incredible amount of Goodwill over the course of many decades. Where did this Goodwill come from? In part from the great traditions beginning with the Chapman generation, but in larger part from the generations of supporters in London and elsewhere in England and the British isles, who have devoted their lives to the club. In the SkySports era Arsenal have managed to leverage that Goodwill to make the club a global brand, that appeals to "tourists" like myself. Supporting Arsenal has taught me a lot about many aspects of the sport and I could never support any other English team. It appears now that Arsenal's goodwill is being squandered as the manager incompetently acts as if he is more important than any other part of the equation. Is it not a betrayal of many of our talented players, for the manager to not bother to do his job properly, to fail to study the opposition, to not prepare the team tactically, to not make changes when changes should be made? The squandering of goodwill is also being carried out by the owner and the board, who act as if its supply is limitless. It's not. I will continue to support the Arsenal as I can from abroad, but the current issues with the club, from the declining quality of play, apart from Sanchez, to the club's deliberate neglect of supporters in its traditional catchment area, to over-commercialization and over-financialization, have dampened my enthusiasm and lead me to start spending more time and money supporting my local club, who are mid-table to relegation threatened and have little hope of hanging on to their better players or competing in Europe - at the moment. BTW. Rosicky was influential for the Czech Republic this evening, made some great tackles and distributed the ball well, even though he scuffed his one clear shot. He deserves more of a role this season than just polishing a spot on the bench.

48. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2014, 0:09 #61457

    Mg, of all the strange things that I have seen at AFC during my time the Almunia biz was the craziest. It just made no sense at all,then again it was Wenger who was employing him ! You couldn't make it up.

49. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 23:36 #61455

    I think at one time there was even talk of the waiter representing England, and the old fool was even bigging him up with that stupid sly smirk, was it clemence (the goalkeeping coach at the time) who said it would never happen, i'm not sure if he was referring to him qualifying for a British passport or playing for the team, it's was no surprise he was worthy of neither.

50. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 22:48 #61454

    DW - i differ from you there. I dont want any Coach being given the keys to the front and back door and the access to the safe like Wengers had. We do need the right, strong man but i want him to be made aware that results are paramount and that his job rests on it. Al of the top Club are ran like this now. The Coaches know that their shelf life is perhaps limited even if they are fairly successful. All of this stuff trotted out about 'stability' in context of Wenger has meant him remaining safe for the sake only of him remaining safe! Its been an end in itself at Arsenal. No employee should be given unconditional guarantees for nothing in return. AFC as a Club has got to manage its Coach not hang unquestioningly on his every word as if its gospel. This is where the Clubs been far too lax. A change in structure and culture of the Club has to accompany a change of Coach. They probably need a Chief Executive with a mandate to get close to nobody. Arsenal have the trappings of a big Club but the mentality there is still old Denis Hill Wood with the old Etonian chumminess running rampant. Wenger and the players there are all far too comfortable. In no other business would people be being paid those salaries without the Club demanding its pound of flesh in return. Arsenal look a modern Club from the outside but they're stuck in the 1950s within as i see it.

51. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 22:47 #61453

    Ramgun, good shout, Almunia, the waiter, lard arse, whatever you want to call him (and the lists long) he always crops up as the perfect example (and rightly so) of wengers failed philosophies hoping and waiting for years to (the detriment of the team) for a second/third rater to come good (and there was many of those)just so he could look good when it was obvious to everyone (apart from the old fool himself)it was never going to happen, a sackable offence on it's own and it would have happened at many other clubs.

52. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2014, 22:11 #61452

    Evening Ramgun. That Rangers 1967 game was the pre-match friendly, we played them as a curtain-raiser for a few years. This I think was the last, because they threw a barrage of beer bottles across the Clock End terraces. I was in the East Lower that game, arriving late. I looked and my eyes showed me a bizarre sight, as the bottles flew it was like a brown blanket of glass, and as the people scattered the game was stopped I think. The links were severed after that match. Do you remember that?

53. DW Thomas

    Nov 16, 2014, 21:37 #61451

    Always dreaded and loved playing United. Used to be a great match, big players with much to prove. Lately we simply fold up and crumble when any big club plays us, especially away. No Gooner really likes Fergie, but man he had the balls to buy our captain and win the next title with him. He had zero tolerance for mediocrity and sub par players. In their prime United were what we aspire to be. Winning games they should have lost and title after title. Only Barcelona was more feared at the time they had Ronaldo. My hope is a new manager, the right one, is given Wenger's power and control, but he does the right things this time. What those are is up for some slight debate, but just don't repeat the mistakes of the last 9-10 years. We have had some good teams over these last several seasons, just too many missing pieces to attain greatness. A lack of desire for bettering the season before has led to stagnation and even backsteps. I have seen many a poster change tack and want change at the club over these years. It is sad that Wenger could never regain past glories. Maybe it was just lightning in a bottle. I hope it wasn't just a fluke period. I have to believe we can go on and achieve more. The platforms are there aren't they?

54. Hiccup

    Nov 16, 2014, 19:47 #61449

    Evening guys. I realised wenger had lost the plot when indeed players like almunia, Denilson and not to forget bendtner were stinking the team out. Was it known as the axis of sh!t if I remember right? What also didn't help matters was how wenger kept saying these players would be world class (think fabianski was included in this bracket too?). Now please don't tell me the stadium move restricted us to this kind of crap, because the wages these were on made a mockery of that claim. But then the AKB's would waffle on how Fergie had bought some duds, but as ramgun has pointed out, they were shown the door promptly. Even now they go on about top clubs having crap players. I really don't know what their point is. If these top teams have crap players, then that suggests we should at least be pushing them close? Non? Yes, wenger has had some great players in the last ten years, but these were flogged to death trying to carry far too much dross. And now after several years of getting all the crap off the books as they ran their lucrative contracts down before they moved on their rightful standard in the championship, we now have no depth apart from the 20 midfielders on the books. This clown just moves from one sh!t scenario to another every year.

55. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 19:16 #61448

    Ron, indeed, we kept hearing from the AKB's and indeed still hear it now and again that OGL could have had his pick of clubs in Europe but stayed loyal to us, if true at all i wonder why, more like it's as i've long suspected it was only because it was the power he had/was allowed to have that kept him here, as he knew fine well he wouldn't get it at any of the big clubs and they'd demand success and wouldn't put up with failure, mediocrity, and failed philosophies (and just as importantly neither would their fans)and you can be dammed sure when our new manager comes in he'll not be given or have as much power as this old duffer has.

56. Carlos

    Nov 16, 2014, 19:16 #61447

    Some interesting comparisons between Ferguson and Wenger. Ferguson's craving for success was motivated, I believe, by an understanding that sustained mediocrity would see him shown the door. He understood that success would come by empowering coaches and assistant managers. He realised that he couldn't do it all himself. In addition he made all he could out of Utd's huge wealth and success kept coming. Wenger is also motivated by self preservation, however, when the chairman - the owner's mouthpiece - more or less says that he can do what he likes, it is clear that he doesn't have to do an awful lot to sustain his employment. Where they do coincide is in cowtowing to American owners who are only interested in the bottom line.

57. Big Andy

    Nov 16, 2014, 18:34 #61446

    @Ramgun: Brilliant post, perfectly sums up what's wrong with Wenger. If you want an example of OGL's hopeless arrogance then look no further that the ridiculous situation with Abu Diaby. Everybody except Wenger can see that he's an injury-prone waste of time. But Wenger continues to persist with him. Talk about losing touch with reality.

58. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 18:17 #61445

    I'll never look at a cucumber the same again.

59. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 17:52 #61443

    MG - It would be a surprise if it wasn't in his mindset though mate. Perhaps a lucrative salaried position on the Board is the only thing between us and 27 years of AW? Perish the very thought as you say.

60. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 17:30 #61442

    Ron, some very good posts, but staying longer than red nose? don't even go there mate, i know his cult would love it, but do you want to kill off any hope and ambition the rest of us have.

61. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 17:08 #61441

    Hi Ramgun - thats a great post as ever. Accurately and succinctly put. Yr point on having kept in touch with football is the key isnt it. Like you ive always seen Wenger as more a man to sneer at football people and maybe the fans too. This might explain why so many of the old school ilk like AF and Sam Allardyce have never warmed to him. It stand out like a sore thumb doesn't it. I d love to have seen that 67 game. We used to play Rangers didn't we as some sort of regular unofficial game pre Season? You would have more knowledge than me as to why that was im guessing mate.

62. Ramgun

    Nov 16, 2014, 16:59 #61440

    Ron - Wenger and Ferguson are chalk and cheese. The former is a Germanic snob from Alsace whilst the latter spent his youth on the terraces at Ibrox, which was not for the faint-hearted. Ferguson never lost that connection with football and football supporters whilst Wenger never had it nor wanted it. Ferguson, like Wenger, made mistakes, but unlike Wenger he put them right as soon as possible. Taibi, Kleberson and Djemba-Djemba were all got rid of in record time and Man Utd had to stand the financial losses on them to right the manager's initial mistakes. Wenger made Almunia an Arsenal goalkeeper for eight (yes - EIGHT!) years and Denilson made over 100 first team appearances, the vast majority of which were out of position in defensive midfield. If your arrogance knows no bounds and your employers have abrogated all responsibility then you can't right mistakes because you don't make any. Ferguson is not a man I could ever warm to but I could and would if he managed my club. Ferguson was ruthless in pursuit of success whereas Wenger is totally self-obsessed. By the way, I saw Ferguson make his debut for Rangers in 1967 in a 3-0 defeat at Highbury when his first match for the club he had loved all of his life was marked by being completely wiped out by Fingers Furnell who didn't get anywhere near the ball but, believe me, Ferguson was going nowhere.

63. AMG

    Nov 16, 2014, 16:49 #61439

    CG the tourist.

64. DW Thomas

    Nov 16, 2014, 15:57 #61438

    Ron and JW, good posts. I once believed in Arsene, not a die hard AKB, but I thought he was better than most other managers. Not anymore. For me it was the CL loss in 2006 that pushed Arsene to throw the dice with project youth. It may haves worked too, he was so close in 2008. Problem was the weak links like Almunia and Denilson. His inability to see what everyone else sees and his arrogance have proven to many he is past it. Comment after comment, excuse after excuse. All of us can now see what is needed to reinvigorate the club. But when money rules, it just won't happen.

65. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 15:28 #61437

    Funny how you don't hear from some for days on end when there's a lot going on and plenty to talk about, and then when it gets quiet and there's nothing or not much anyway they come skulking back and you can't shut them up with their long drawn out balderdash.

66. jjetplane

    Nov 16, 2014, 13:42 #61436

    Morally superior Arsene. This explains his enormous humility in keeping the club just on the cusp and not doing something immoral like competing. To compete is to be 'like the rest.' Arsenal really are too good for that and that is why Swansea and the rest are so enthralled by 'the man who invented integrity.' We are truly blessed for all our Sundays .....

67. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 13:06 #61435

    Baddie - You ll have to enlarge on the staggering notion of it being a 'given' that Wenger is 'morally superior' and to whom? Im sure many of us would love to see from where that one derives. Ive only just stopped choking and spluttering on that one mate!Its certainly an extension on and an explanation of what many see as even the extent of your own willingness to be in thrall of him. Is he really such a deity to you or to use MGs term, a Messiah? Pray tell.

68. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 12:47 #61434

    A agree Jeff. I think Wengers arrogance is the aspect of his character that's now undermining him bit by bit. Its ironic that his biggest bete noir in football here has been Ferguson yet Wengers demeanor towards Fergie has always been less than savoury. The pizza gate affair was Arsenals shame not Utds and Wengers folly, not Fergusons as but one example. Yet, Wenger s never changed or learned from that has he. I think hes grotesquely envious of AF yet too blinkered and arrogant to be humble enough to ask himself why hes never got close to AFs achievements. He may have the grand design of staying longer than AF in the job. I wdt be surprised if that his grand plan. The reason hes failed to match AF in my view is that Fergie, for all that people accuse him of isnt arrogant enough to think hes got all of the answers. He knew he needed strong assertive men at his side to help him. His Coaches have all been as durable as he. Hes listened to them and on his own admission learned from them. Not Wenger. He s at a far smaller Club admittedly but hes only ever surrounded himself with types who tow his line, nod the head, tip the cap. Its absolutely unforgivable and its let the Club that he s supposed to love down. Its my view that Wenger hasnt been as 'loyal' to AFC as Wenger will have us beleive in the face of better higher profile job opportunities purportedly put his way years ago when his star was shining. He was more in my view frightened to take such positions, preferring instead to sit astride his cheaply given pedestal of unbridled power that Arsenal have been stupid enough to indulge him with. Mourinho has made this very point before and i think hes right. AFC 'the Club' need to change and learn by what they allowed to happen before they change the Coach. One without the other will lead to nowhere.I agree too. No new Coach will walk on water there. The jobs massive and in my opinion needs as much a total overhaul as LVG is having to engage with at Utd, perhaps even a bigger task awaits the new incumbent at Arsenal. The Board perhaps know this and are shying away from it. It just plays into Wengers hands.

69. jjetplane

    Nov 16, 2014, 12:26 #61433

    BADDIE still the same 'one person says this, everyone follows' while you sit in some messianic stupor gazing in awe at the cosmic properties of Arsene FC. Beyond good and evil and on the cusp of the great Arsene inspired rapture you wait with WESTIE to be lifted into the sky above Holloway, and then ...... dropped. Lifted, dropped ........

70. jeff wright

    Nov 16, 2014, 12:23 #61432

    Football has changed Ron,and not for the better either. Wenger introduced some new innovative ideas into the game in this land when he arrived, unknown and after having been fired by Monaco .Dein rescued him, on Hoddle's advice of all people , from the purgatory of managing a club in Japan . You have to give credit to Wenger for seizing his opportunity with us to relaunch his career . His first full season with us is my favourite one of his when he took on the iron gruppenfueher at United and overcame a 13 point deficit in the Prem to win the title and also the FAC . Now when you win the FAC as well as the league it does add a bit more spice to the dish. It should be pointed out though that Wenger did not invent the ideas that he introduced into our somewhat backward league regarding diet and training regimes - these things were already being used in Europe and Wenger copied them ,also some of the things that he has been credited with introducing were already set to be introduced ,or were being used, anyway. The problem that I have always seen with Wenger is that he has a chip on his shoulder regarding his failure at Monaco and his dismissal ,he set out to prove his doubters regarding his own ideas on football wrong . This started after the move to the new stadium when he embarked on trying to achieve success using the same ideas that had failed him at Monaco,with the youth project being instrumental in this . Having nicked Fabregas from the Barcelona academy he decided then that tippy - tappy football was the way the game should be played,saying that if you look at the best team in Europe it is Barcelona and thy play possession passing football . The obvious flaw in that theory was of course that Barcelona had players like Messi and Xabi and la liga is a less physical league than the Prem is. Just the FAC won after donkeys years of tippy tapping around and even that was won buy having to revert to 4-4-2 ater the tippy tappy had failed against two modest sides in the semi-and Wembley final , led many to believe that Wenger would ditch the failed passing game and go back to using a more direct pragmatic approach .This is Wenger though still crazy after all these years trying to prove himself right as usual. Also having set out his stall to continue with going for goals and sod the defending,he is not really in a position anyway to chance tack now. Personally I think it will take a new younger manager to change things around and he will need time to do that,unlike Wenger when he arrived at Highbury the new man will be inheriting a mess that needs clearing up before h can do anything about taking us forward in the way that Wenger did in his first season at the club.

71. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2014, 12:16 #61431

    Just a small consideration, whilst checking the dates of Arsenal v Sours earlier, I noted that punches traded between us over the last forty matches in all competitions reads as follows: Played 40-Won 20; Drew 14; Lost 6. Quite impressive. Imagine the rancour we all might harbour were the shoe on the other foot, or in your case maguiresbridge, wellie, oh whoops, they are on the other feet, sorry.

72. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 12:15 #61430

    Baddie - you dont know me or anybody on a message board mate.Its as foolish to think that as is thinking that theres no right or wrong views on any given subject.Many people are 'right' on many occasions and we see it depending upon what fields we work in and equally so many people are 'wrong' too The notion of everybody being right in different ways as you appear to hang onto is lunacy and its a woolly unsustainable fudge .All that statement does is validates in yr own mind (in context of all things AFC for these purposes of course) that what you say is at worst only ever part incorrect or part misconceived. You seem to need that comfort blanket. Its a bit disrespectful to keep trotting out to others, me, of lacking understanding and of missing the point. Maybe to an extent we all do that at times for sure, but baddie, there are few so thorny on here as your good self when challenged. A little bit of humility and practicing what you preach is maybe for you to ponder a bit? In sure its not gone unnoticed for you that many posters have made and continue to make this point to you? Are they all misconceived, lacking understanding and missing the point mate? You can see the arrogance in always holding that view im sure? All good stuff though and im genuinely glad you're back.Peace bro.

73. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2014, 12:04 #61429

    Agreed with pretty much all you said Ron. As stated before you have much to offer. jeff has fallen into the trap of assumption, it lies right next door to the snare of misunderstanding. Out you get jeff, let me help you up with a hand. Neither a moralising nor imagined superior one, just a mitt, with six digits on it, er, five, I mean five! My personal view of AW? Well as a humanist I find a person, who is a self-confessed catholic, someone a way away from my personal little island of fortitude. He is ultra wealthy, and am deeply suspicious of that sort of wealth, knowing the corruption money can bring. Power corrupts in the same way-even imagined power like the kind displayed on this website-is that a humble enough admission for you? He is an increasingly isolated individual, which makes for introspection limited. The separation, which led to the isolation I speak of, was offered and encouraged by others. He is a confident, educated and intelligent man, and has a sense of achievable targets. This made him accept his position and has grasped it with the utmost endeavours. The fact he has failed on many fronts is the conclusion, rather than the concept of embracing the task. You are right about football being a simple game, and it's certainly tribal, but that is also evolving and changing. It's why we all are becoming increasingly disassociated with it, and confused by much. It is the way of the current trends in the world, but mark, they are only trends, and they too will alter and evolve. Possibly into something better, perhaps into something much worse. AW is in many terms morally superior, that is a given, but amongst the Neanderthal examples in English football even a cucumber could make a sound case for that distinction. I might not be able to endure an evening with AW, but perhaps I couldn't with Frank McLintock either. Not much clouds my eyes jeff. I too saw a desire for Bellerin, and Chambers moving to the centre. I didn't know any stories behind the decision so kept my powder dry. It's a real pity most exist in perpetually damp conditions-and you call yourselves Gunners?.

74. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 11:25 #61428

    Hi Jeff - its as baddie says footballs changed, Youre right though Wenger has set himself up as some kind of leading light on alternative 'cerebral', even morally based football. The media have been carried along with it too, even assisted in its perpetuation. Now i think theyve gradually tired of it and as they do theyre starting to dismantle it. Im glad they are. Many fans have bought into it and really do believe that its far removed in the ways its played to what it was 30 or 40 years ago. It hasnt though. When i take a look at old clips and DVD s of yesteryear, the football is in many ways superior or just not different at all but the myth prevails. Its the conditions, pitches and mentality that s changed, the skill sets of players arent much different. We talk of 'technical' players now and of being 'entitled to go down' and all of the poppy cock thats engendered in the modern vocabulary of the game. Wengers made for it. Hes perpetuated his own myth on it very well indeed and reaped the rewards without ever reaching the pinnacle of his profession. Hes a bit of an illusion and his spin on all thiongs Arsenal is equally an illsuion, but its taken so many years for our own fans to see through it. This board is evident that the cracks in the mirage are there now and im not of the view Wenger will cope once its spreads more widely.They say hes an educated man? I dont believe hes any different to many of us in reality. Id suggest that many of us on here can say we ve mastered a language or two and have a degree or two under our belts and really do work in intellectually demanding fields of which football isnt one and never will be. Arsenal and Wenger have truly spun a web of make believe while they reap enormous rewards from it. All Clubs have followed to an extent, but Wenger was the author of this approach, the pioneer perhaps. I for one am glad its being shown up for the substance lacking cloud of dust that its always been.Come on football, not necessarily Arsenal, recover yourself i say.

75. jeff wright

    Nov 16, 2014, 10:30 #61427

    You are right Ron football is a simple game based on club supporters and national views on tribal type warfare. It's not cricket and Baddies philosophizing about things football and trying to pretend that it has attributes that do not exist is not helping his cause .His cause being of course AKB - this le Prof image of Wenger, that supposedly places him intellectually above the other more common managers , that is so beloved by Baddie is just a myth . Baddie though believes in it.I suspect that it is this image of Wenger that has made him such a devoted follower of Arsene and caused Badarse to fail to see,or even refuse to do ,his shortcomings. There is always an excuse for the same repetitive failures every season and the excuse that the ordinary man not being able to understand the great leaders plans is as good as any. Good old Arsene.

76. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2014, 10:26 #61426

    Good morning Ron. The most unsurprising aspect of your post was that it wasn't surprising. You have missed the point once more. Football was a distraction of course. Life is a constant struggle to survive as long as possible in the best of reasonable circumstances. Life was harder than today in bygone ages, and football became a gateway to another world, nothing cosmic, just a way of escaping the drudgery and disenchantment of existence. As is opera, theatre, picnics, the pub and all other of life's enjoyments. That again isn't philosophy, just understanding, so stay with me on this. Evolution happens. Football has evolved. Evolution doesn't mean 'good', it just means a natural change. Humans do not like change. We want the sweet shop on the corner to be open as we pass by to work. We want the rag we read to be available, we want our regular favourite seat to be unoccupied when we board the train. A slight disruption isn't welcomed. I try to ensure that I never regard the past as golden, but I do 'cherry pick' aspects. It is a way of learning from experiences and hoping not to commit the same mistakes. It also gives perspective when absorbed and understood. An example for you to encapsulate what I am driving is this. Highbury was a wonderful, grubby, magnificent, dangerous place, full on occasions with incredible atmosphere where we watched some breath taking footballing excitement, at least what we could see of it in a 60,000 plus crowd, as we cascaded backwards and forwards down the terracing. The new stadium is an evolution, and is the antithesis of Highbury. No torture, no sleepless nights, no sanctimony, no philosophy beyond comparable observations, for me. We each choose our own paths, we each have our personal music, foods, loves, dislikes, interests and perceptions, some we share, some we do not. None are wrong, we all are different. This is a fundamental point you must try to grasp Ron. Someone not seeing your view, sharing your vision is not wrong. They are not any of the labels you would conveniently hang on them to bolster a small conceived victory, they are just different. The ironical thing is, I know you very well, but you only have a conception of me. A blinkered and narrow pre-conceived view. We can still be friendly though. Respect, that my friend is the key. Last sentence is that a man stepping into or back from the fray is doing just that, choosing when, if, or if not, to engage. An inalienable right, which should never, ever be questioned.

77. Ron

    Nov 16, 2014, 9:46 #61425

    Morning Baddie lad. Its good to have you back, convoluted riddles and bizarre whimsies and all mate. Alas, you take this football stuff far too much to heart my friend. Sleepless nights from football? Bud, can it really cause that? Part of society? Mate if theres one aspect of peoples lives that can be more or less extracted from societys challenges and ills its football, thats why we love it, especially us older fans for whom it always was an escape from life's strife's and trials albeit for just a few hours. It always was 'custard pies'. Cant you see that? Just like in the good old bad old days when football had a heart and a soul and we gustily roared 'youre gonna get yr f-----g head kicked in'towards those nasty of nasties - visiting fans and just as we demonstrated our footballing virility with our doc martens and faded 'Lee' jeans braces and grandad shirts in towns and citys the length and breadth of the Country on away days, it was all pretence. Imagined unity of cause. Juvenile muscle flexing. Call it what you will. None of it was meant, nobody hated the away fans, nobody really thought our red army was 'harder; than anothers blue army. I think youre the one for the sleepless nights matey. You seem to look at everything as an academic challenge to be dove tailed somewhere, however ill fitting into the general scheme of your lifes concept otherwise you cant make sense of it. Why bother. Football has no sense or reason and rarely do fans. The beauty of it is that it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, youre torturing yself baddie and you do make a philosophy out of it whatever you say and maybe, i rather think you may even make a philosophy out of boiling an egg on a Sunday morning? All the custard pies and brickabts thrown at AFC and Wenger on here bud dont change. They dont take on a new life and energy after each loss as you suggest, theyre there anyway and have been for years. This site just gives an audience for them. Your last post is an effort to try and place yourself and your view above those who 'do not understand'. Its a bit sanctimonious mate and without being too harsh, you have a penchant for that. Could that be the real reason why you go awol when you know the baying hordes are having fun? Take a leaf from Westies book baddie. He loves the fray and no more than when hes in the firing line , whether buckling bending and bruised, our little Westie roars back like a true central command warrior and we who rarely agree with him love him for ot and for his plucky joining in the fun of it.Yr last comments are a bit like Arsenals football. All sidewards and aimless, all tip tap, punchless and woolly. Theres really no need for it buddy. Footballs not worthy of it. Give the AWOL habit a miss mate. youll get the respect Westie gets then maybe?

78. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2014, 9:27 #61424

    Morning 24601. I feel you need an injection of comparative sense. Here is a simple analogy for you, walk any of the bright, wide boulevards of LA and you are in a trusted environment. Take a turn and wander the side streets and soon you are in alien territory. The same rules no longer apply. It is much the way of life. In a beautiful garden, turn over a decorative rock and creepy-crawlies are beneath. Now I am not comparing the Dark Moanies with invertebrates but you can see my comparison with what would befall any with your 'life-view' of AFC, one I share of course. I spend time in a comfort zone of relative harmony, knowing myself intrinsically, and wearing the pomp of love and accepted respect from those around who I deal with. Then I open up this site and see I am accused of all manner of deceit, weaknesses. and duplicity. It's all baloney! I am a chap who loves his team, have had the most magnificent of journeys through my life, and the connecting threads of AFC have given many cement-fillings between the bricks to endorse and illustrate it. Why in Feb 1958 I saw Arsenal lose 4-5 to MU, a few days before the Munich Air Disaster. Three weeks later I was back watching us draw 4-4 with the Sours. Then in Oct 1962 and a year later to the month, I watched us draw away to them 4-4, and at Highbury 4-4. In '62 I believe we were 3-0 down, then 4-2 before rescuing the game. I think David 'Doggy' Court had a big part in this. To hear people bemoaning us now, you could be mistaken for believing we'd never conceded four goals in a game before. This sounds a little trite, and not meant as a defence of some wise and critical points offered on here, but it is a strong argument for some perspective. I used to maintain that I was so lucky with injuries when playing-I used to bounce. One day long after my major injury which stopped me, I reflected and to my amusement discovered I'd had so many injuries my original view had been plain daft. I began counting scars and other situations, a reminder to delve more deeply and how a positive attitude can only benefit in many ways, but a deeper understanding brings it's own reality. In this household we often discuss your adroit equanimity and rationale of AFC, you are often the mainmast on my rickety, holed, sailing boat. So, a nice relaxing morning for me; had two cusps of Rosie already, Charlie's home game at 2pm, a nice Roast dinner, be with my wife throughout, a nice cup of fresh coffee later, a day in the life, my friend. Good old Arsenal.

79. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2014, 8:03 #61423

    Ah Bard, you are one for the misassumptions, are you not? Ironic that sometimes your posting approach is a parallel of the very negligence you accuse AW of, in his style of football. You push forward without the recognition that you may be caught on the counter, a wild and reckless statement, without understanding and the balance of sound judgement. Your title of Dark Lord was earned, but though bestowed by others, those that follow you are perhaps undiscerning methinks, and have a penchant of just blindly following a bugle call. It may have escaped you, but sadly the support of AFC does reflect that of society, all things do-and Ron, that isn't philosophy, it is fact my friend, fail to learn that simple rule at your peril, it leads to many sleepless nights and a great sense of unfulfillment, why just reread some of maguirebridge's posts to get my gist. His are more obvious, that's why I single him out, but reread any and the conclusion is invariably the same. Back to you Bard. A poor Arsenal performance is followed here on this site by much wailing and gnashing of teeth. The group get into a metaphoric circle and begin kicking that dead body of a complaint-AW. It widens without the response hoped for, (what response can a dead body give?), and Kroenke, Ivan, and any who disagree with your view are held down for a few free kicks. As those who disagree are the sole ones able to defend a position, they become the targets. Small children at odds with any disappointments strike out at those nearest when dissatisfied-again not philosophy Ron, nor dark matter difficult to contemplate jjetplane. I wait for the storm to blow out then step into the sunshine knowing only stray custard pies are likely to hit me, that buddy, is sensible judgement. I deduce from this clear observation of your approach that you are not an accomplished chess player, as for jeff's strangulated view of things if he played he would continually try to 'huff' the opponents queen, of that I am sure. 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing', would be my epitaph for this site's posters. Pies at the ready...begin!

80. maguiresbeidge gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 1:31 #61422

    Here was me thinking Ireland was capital of the slaggers and piss takers, how wrong i was.

81. maguiresbridgr gooner

    Nov 16, 2014, 0:32 #61420

    Ron, baddie has no need to worry they only fire blanks anyway.

82. Ron

    Nov 15, 2014, 23:56 #61419

    Hiccup. That 24 hour amnesty is the nicest thing ive heard all day. You are a sweet boy. So generous of spirit and magnanimous too. In fact, can i suggest that in the spirit of love to AKB s that we adopt one each? Yes. adoption! How much more loving and tolerant is that? It means that fellow enlightened wobs can still sneer and deal low blows to them and express disdain at their ignorance BUT those of us who adopt one have to protect them. For eg if i adopt Westie and you tell him hes a deluded old fart, i then have to say to you, aww f--k off hiccup, support the lads, Diabys back soon and we ll win the title and the CL .....? And all the time im sort of winking and you know its all in fun? Can you see the game? We sort of pretend world it and pretend to be AKBs. It cd be great fun cdt it? AND, get this mate, we can wear those 25 mm dense lense glasses for ages and be a real AKBrigader, so we get fun and our adopted AKB boy feels loved again? Its a win win situation and we can watch Arsenal 4 Tottenham 4 2008 and see the version where we were heroic and it was better than winning. Whats better than that mate? What do you all say?

83. DW Thomas

    Nov 15, 2014, 23:17 #61418

    MG: "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kickass.. And I'm all out of bubblegum!" Something like that? Great B or C flick and a good metaphor for Gooners who still fall pray to OGLs mesmerizing speeches.m

84. jjetplane

    Nov 15, 2014, 22:43 #61417

    GOONERGOAL! Epic **** mate! We're all gladiators now - except WESTIE he's a real man still wearing flares and heels and living in a red and white bungalow. Behave!

85. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 15, 2014, 22:22 #61416

    Hiccup, Ron, that reminds me of the movie They Live, starring Roddy Piper he went into a church where there was always singing and worshiping (just like AKB central command) he found a cardboard box full of dark glasses, when worn you just saw everything in black and white and nothing that was going on around you, and no matter what you read or saw it translated into BELIEVE, MULTIPLY, DON'T QUESTION, etc, and they also distinguished aliens from humans (AKB's WOB's) and when taken back off everything's clear as crystal again and everyone can see what's happening, he tried to convince others but they just wouldn't believe him even his mate, and they beat the crap out of each other in the process until he managed to convince him by making him try on the glasses and removing them a couple of times, now we know what they've been giving out at AKB central command.

86. jeff wright

    Nov 15, 2014, 22:22 #61415

    Hiccup, with Wenger and his AKB's now it's like watching Downfall, the end of the Reich , with the crazed fuhrer ranting and raving in the bunker at everyone, while his loyal subservient followers try desperately to pretend that he is making sense and profess their loyalty to him by agreeing with his deluded claims that destiny is on his side even though they know that all is lost. You couldn't make it up.

87. GoonerGoal!

    Nov 15, 2014, 22:06 #61414

    The Westlowers of this world are already aware they are being left isolated, but their pride will not allow them to stop swimming against the tide until such time as they are forced to recognise that further resistance is foolhardy. Those of us who have known the reality of Wenger for many years are gladdened by the knowledge that the great majority of Gooners can see the MYTH of WENGER has been totally exposed. “The die is cast", the end for which we have waited is near. It's time to hold up signs and cry it from the stands, so that the whole world can see and hear us! Make noise on the radio, on the internet, and in sports publications! Now is the time! WENGER/KRONKE/GAZIDIS OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

88. Hiccup

    Nov 15, 2014, 21:51 #61413

    Guys, please feel free to shoot me down, but the last thing I want to see is Baddie court marshaled. This is the good side of a wob people don't see. How about a 24 AKB amnesty, where they can all come back on here without any recrimination or fear of put down? Cuspmas is round the corner, so how about a 'be nice to an AKB' day? Or in jeff's case, for two minutes?

89. jjetplane

    Nov 15, 2014, 21:37 #61412

    Legion stuff tonight on here! Just dug out an old pair of Arsebans and guess what - 'I could/did not see it' (smug smile optional). MG I hear they got some nice cuspmas mangers too and there's lots of cribs with little footballers lying in them. All is calm/all is quiet. You could not make up. God rest ye wobbly gentlemen.

90. Ron

    Nov 15, 2014, 21:35 #61411

    Bard - its OK mate. I heard from Westie's orderly yesterday that theyre tightening up discipline no end at Central Command after we broke in and found the place empty last week. I heard he went mad after being left to fight a lone battle all last week armed just with his central command standard issue pea shooter and spud gun. Badarse s latest having gone AWOL antic (his 12th time apparently)hasnt gone down well. Hes back now only for fear of being court marshaled or worse still shot by Jamies firing squad. Theyve rationed his library visits as well and (i had to laugh), theyre allowing him only to keep his Piers Morgan books now, believing that hes took reading the Prince by Machiavelli far too literally for the skirmish he faces on here.

91. Bard

    Nov 15, 2014, 21:10 #61410

    Baddie : nice of you to drop in. You've become part time these days disappearing in times of trouble and appearing when the proverbial has passed. Not sure you're a man for the toe to toe fighting but more someone who appears after the fight and then dispenses sermons on the meaning of it all. There is room here for even the most distressed of AKBs.

92. Ron

    Nov 15, 2014, 21:04 #61409

    They sound great those glasses you mention. Oddly enough Hiccup, as i was feeling guilty about that pair i tried as i told you, i posted the pair i had back to the address for 'badarse optical engineers and philosophers Co Ltd' that was stamped on the frames, i sent them next day delivery and paid extra to do so and blow me, they came back the next day marked 'address unknown'. I couldn't figure this so i phoned Companies House, They were ever so helpful. They sorted it. The registered address is 'badarse optical illusionists and philosophers Co Ltd' so it was my own fault for reading it wrong. Co House said best to send them straight to the Co Secretary though at Highbury House N7 mark FAO Mr A Wenger. I wont get my wasted postage back though as the cost will be seen as to high a value.

93. jeff wright,

    Nov 15, 2014, 20:58 #61408

    Ron, Wally is not in a club of one these days at AFC dining out on past exploits.

94. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 15, 2014, 20:54 #61407

    jj, just got back in from Tesco and they're doing a great deal on Cuspmas trees.

95. Hiccup

    Nov 15, 2014, 20:40 #61406

    Ron, those hi viz ones you can get online from arseblog. Because things are getting worse this season, I hear the manufacturer has been called back in to improve them. They have been upgraded with 25 mm dense lenses, and I kid you not, you lose a 3 goal lead and still see a great performance. I've still got the old 1080 HD pair which do for me. At half time toniight, these beauties send a text to your phone blaming the fans for not applauding them off the pitch. Technology, eh? What will they have for us in 5 years time when wenger is still here?

96. Badarse

    Nov 15, 2014, 20:35 #61405

    That was funny Ron, mind your response to westlower was funny in a different way. You too Hiccup. I guess now you can always identify the Bash Street Boys who support this club Arsenal, we are the mobsters who all look like 'Joe 90'. Oh no, jeff wright's got trouble with his Balkans!

97. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 15, 2014, 20:33 #61404

    jw, yes indeed, it would break all records and last/run even longer than Dads Army.

98. Bard

    Nov 15, 2014, 20:33 #61403

    Westie you are dead right mate, those were the days. women knew their place and men were men. Footballers knew who was boss and were paid rubbish wages. When I was a kid I slept on the pavement at night and ate gravel for breakfast, oh what wonderful days. But they are long gone and what we have before us is an overpaid charlatan who used to be a very good manager but now is in serious decline. As Dylan said the times they are a changin' .

99. Ron

    Nov 15, 2014, 20:33 #61402

    Hard to forget that Wally v Croats game Jeff. That was his entire career and he still dines out on it.

100. jeff wright

     Nov 15, 2014, 20:14 #61401

     These thugish east euro sides are cut a lot of slack by refs , it appears that the twerps cant play football without resorting to having to use GBH on England players,remember Wally that time when he scored a hat-trick away to the Croats and was given an American Football style body check, alight this if you have the body armour on other wise rather painful, plus numerous other incidents in games against these cretins in other games that the bent refs wave away. These East Europeans should stick to herding goats and whatever else they do with them.

101. Ron

     Nov 15, 2014, 20:14 #61400

     Hi Hiccup - They are good glasses. Jeff,SKG and Angry and Frustrated bought a pair of the high vis ones back that they plundered after they had stormed Central Command to rescue Bard the other day. I cdt resist trying them out. I watched a DVD of the game that Kallstrom played last in Season. Im not joking he was tackling like a tiger and opponents were bouncing of him as he marauded forward like Graeme Souness in his pomp. Thinking they were faulty i persisted with them and no sh-t, Giroud v Hull in the Cup Final DVD played with power and precision. I honestly thought it was an old Ibrahimovitch clip. Amazing. Did feel a bit guilty though of handling stolen goods when i saw they were marked 'property of Westie'. Made in England by Badarse and Co - optical engineers and philosophers Co Ltd.

102. Hiccup

     Nov 15, 2014, 19:57 #61399

     England looking pretty good. Ref did his best to let Slovenia win. Should have been down to ten, but FIFA's new directive to stitch England up in full flow tonight. Roy working miracles and still unbeaten this season. Spain beaten by Slovakia. Ranieri for England anybody? England on the cusp of something special! Christ, these AKB rose tinted specs really do work!

103. jeff wright

     Nov 15, 2014, 19:14 #61398

     More proof tonight that Danny Boy is more suited to playing out wide than up front in his display for England. . ........ Westie, your desperate efforts to try and claim that there is nothing to complain about with Wenger and the way the club is run is becoming hilarious. There have been times when things were worse or as bad at AFC but as I recall it things were eventually sorted and better periods ensued between the dire ones. The problem with the Wenger situation is that he has been at the club now for 18 years and a change is required to kick-start the club into a new period and out of the inertia and stagnation of repetitive dross that is served up under the claims of being top football. The recent FAC malarkey where Wenger winning the cup was supposed to have sent some supporters 'nuts' with joy shows just how much work is required to get us back competing realistically for the top trophies that our ticket prices andMore proof tonight that Danny Boy is more suited to playing out wide than up front in his Chelsea kind of wage bill deserves. Rather than us becoming just a dom cup side with ludicrous spuds like spin on this being used to try and pretend that winning the FAC is something better that what it in reality it really is . You only get a Ropey Cup place for winning it and the cup was devalued years ago by United refusing to play in it when choosing to go off to South America to play in some Mickey Mouse World Club Cup tournament,based purely on merchanzing principles . Stan is the sort of guy who would do like wise if given a chance. Also other factors ha ve devalued the old cup with the semis being played at Wembley, no replays these days either,extra-time and a pen shoot-out instead this further devalues the cup ,along with some sides now dumbing it down because finishing anywhere in the Prem is more important financially. Anyone who can't work this out doesn't know as much about the game as they think.

104. Ron

     Nov 15, 2014, 18:04 #61397

     Good old Westie. Is that what you think all these posters are displaying? Self pity? Really?You're becoming the master of re-visionary history my friend. Its a demand for a release from the shackles of a decade of Wengers and the Clubs spin and BS, nothing to do with 'self pity' i suspect. An individual cant self pity for an inanimate third party Club. The idea is a total misnomer. What you see is annoyance and anger and yr getting confused. Its quaint too that you imply that 60s and 70s and 80s blog sites had they have existed wouldn't have been red hot with sentiments like you find on here. The depth of dissatisfaction was as bad and deeper then than now in the main, though there would have been many such as yself who found nothing wrong with the dirge the Club served up in those decades.Did you really never have a go at Billy Wright, Neill, Howe and Co or the Club for tolerating them as they did? Id be very surprised if you didnt. I think many of us on here whove had enough of this rapidly becoming sham of a football Club are really fed up and 'losing patience' with such as you and others, who idly and sanctimoniously make yr repeated lame and vacuous excuses for the tepid dross AFC serve up and pass it off as football. For my part, i actually feel pity for those of you who posit the sentiments that you do, forget self pity.

105. jjetplane

     Nov 15, 2014, 18:03 #61396

     Happy Cuspmas everyone!

106. Hiccup

     Nov 15, 2014, 17:16 #61395

     Ron, I thought all that cusp talk was a serious debate? Personally, I think we are on teh cusp of being on teh cusp of greatness.

107. jjetplane

     Nov 15, 2014, 16:42 #61393

     Rising Damp 2.

108. jeff wright

     Nov 15, 2014, 16:09 #61392

     MG, Wenger's current situation could easily be made into a TV sitcom, there is enough material for it.

109. Westlower

     Nov 15, 2014, 15:46 #61391

     Thanks Badarse. Those were the days when men were men and overpaid tattooed celebs were 40 years in the future. So glad I grew up in the 60/70's. The present fans wallowing in self pity really annoys me. Losing patience with them all.

110. maguiresbridge gooner

     Nov 15, 2014, 14:08 #61390

     jw, another good one like I've said the similarities are endless and so true. Bob, you speak for a lot of us there.

111. Badarse

     Nov 15, 2014, 14:08 #61389

     Message to westlower. Seeing some older posts you mentioned Big Raddy perhaps going in goal. It was in the FA Cup S/F at Villa Park against Stoke in 1972. I was there that day, and we drew 1-1 before knocking them out in the replay, (think it was at Goodison Park). This was the famous occasion when dear old Frank McLintock, recognising that Willow was in trouble hissed to him, 'Don't let them know you're injured!' Bob Wilson tried to oblige but the pain was too intense, so in went Raddy. Says so much just there. The indomitable spirit of Frank, the team-spirited compliance of Bob, and the heroics of Raddy. We lived to fight another day. It's why Geoff Barnett was between the sticks in May, on Cup Final day against Leeds.

112. Ron

     Nov 15, 2014, 14:04 #61388

     I'm guessing taks attended one of badarse's lectures on the philosophy of cusps and seems he took him seriously.

113. Badarse

     Nov 15, 2014, 13:38 #61387

     Or alternatively, tear up to the ground and leave your tickets outside. maguiresbridge, I think the stand-up comedians should have a sit-down strike, then tear up to the ground and...

114. Basil Brush

     Nov 15, 2014, 13:33 #61386

     We need more fuss not less, I agree with your points regarding Wenger's repeated mistakes but sitting there and just accepting it is half the problem with Arsenal fans, let the manager and board know that things need to change, the best thing to do is tear up your tickets and demonstrate outside the ground.

115. maguiresbridge gooner

     Nov 15, 2014, 13:30 #61385

     Hiccup, nice one, so close to home you really could associate the old had been to anything such is the rod he has made for his own back, he gives fans so much ammunition it's so easy to make up you don't have to, i'm surprised comedians aren't having a field day.

116. AMG

     Nov 15, 2014, 13:16 #61384

     Tourist

117. Badarse

     Nov 15, 2014, 10:34 #61382

     Morning Hiccup, GBP is now at M&S, forging a career in Public Relations, and he gets 10% discount on his winter thermals. He also has a Saturday job as a commissionaire at a little village cinema. He was attracted to this because of the uniform and plays the 'Fred Scuttle' persona perfectly. He also gives invitation lectures at the local village hall, last week was a talk on 'Why we should never have gone to the moon.' Sponsored by the Cheese Marketing Board. I am pleased to see the feeding frenzy subside over the last week. There is still blood in the water and a few rogue sharks circling on the outer reaches, but it's largely just a group of overfed piranha threshing about-they've been lured to the area by rumours of a big 'frog' hereabouts. They are to be disappointed. Sad news about Diaby. Good old Arsenal.

118. smithy

     Nov 15, 2014, 10:28 #61381

     ref- Hiccup- good shout about diaby being a scarecrow, probably a horizontal one laying on a straw sick bed!

119. DW Thomas

     Nov 15, 2014, 1:23 #61379

     Good to hear from you again Canada. This January really is Wenger's last chance to prove us doubters wrong. This club and fans deserve so much more. Penny pinching and dithering and sticking with proven sub par players is a complete joke now. It's worse than before as we now have money and the stadium to be so much better. Look at Podolski and Rosicky. Good players who can do a job. Pods a little lazy, but Tomas still has performed well when given a run of games. Even Sunday league players need time to settle when coming back from a lay off. Wenger's mismanagement has stagnated the club and split the fans. I believe we should now be screaming for more!! Freshness is needed, change is required. Under Arsene it will always be more of the same. Play players out of position, coddle his favorites, leave gaping holes in the team, collect $8 million a year bu penny pinch on players, lose awfully to our former rivals, and lack a competitive run sustained till the end. I'd like once, just once, to even lose a season like United did to City recently in the last moments of the last game. We'd get 2nd, but at least we got close! We haven't been close, at the end, for a DECADE!!!

120. andy1886

     Nov 14, 2014, 22:31 #61376

     Taks: "For all those who thinks Klopp is a better manager, please look at BD's position on the table in teh BVB." Yawn, not that old chestnut. I'll tell you where Klopp is in the table, the same place that Wenger was when Monaco sacked him in 1994. Yet Wenger did okay when he joined us two years later didn't he? So your argument makes as much sense as Yaya Sanogo in an Arsenal shirt, none at all.

121. jeff wright

     Nov 14, 2014, 21:35 #61375

     Once upon a time in Holloway , there lived an old Frenchman with grey hair who ran a fruit and veg shop . He was known to be rather tetchy easily annoyed and rather bossy . Lately he had been more bad tempered than usual having hurt his back playing beach volley ball while on holiday during the summer . To make matters worse customers were complaining that his produce was too costly and his staff offered poor service . One woman had even complained to him about the condition of the fruit and vegetables that he sold and had been exceedingly rude to him, suggesting that if he sold rotten veg then it was HIS fault , because he was not doing his job properly! Sacre bleu ! How dare someone who has never spent a day running a grocery shop dare to tell him what to do. He shook his head sighed and limped slowly to his chair in the back of the shop . He consoled himself though with the thought that he had a good passing trade with tourists and day trippers popping in even and other none-locals buying veg to take home and so he could manage without the old locals . He ordered Steve his shop assistant to sort out the bad onions from the rotten ones . Put the best onions on top and when you bag them slip some of the rotten ones in with them he advised , same with the cucumbers and mushrooms , apples and pears This was an old trick of the trade but the wily Frenchman knew that there was always some who would fall for it,again and again...

122. Bob

     Nov 14, 2014, 21:33 #61374

     I don't hate Wenger. He is a big part of our history. But history is what he is - end of.

123. Jason B

     Nov 14, 2014, 20:31 #61373

     The Club belongs to the fans who turn up every week and follow the team,home and away, rain or shine and not the Sky/BT paymasters or the foreign owners from the far east or North America who dictate the kick off times to suit their TV audience.

124. jjetplane

     Nov 14, 2014, 20:30 #61372

     Once a upon a time in Holloway.

125. Hiccup

     Nov 14, 2014, 19:33 #61369

     Evening Baddie. Good to see you back. A passing visit or you here for the long haul of putting us wob's back in our place? You see owt of GBP in the bunker? Sadly, I think he's given up on here. You try and talk him back?

126. Hiccup

     Nov 14, 2014, 19:23 #61368

     Love a good analogy mg. You see, Farmer Giles has spent a fair bit of money on the farm. Got the best cattle barns going, put up the best fences and has a great farm shop that sells its produce at fantastic rip off prices. However, there are some issues that need sorting. Gilesy’s right hand assistant the farm dog does sod all. Instead of rounding the cattle up, it just sits on its arse chewing, while Gilesy tries to put his overalls on the right way. Then he’s got his favourite scarecrow, called the Diaby. This costs £40k/week to hire. It does bugger all, just stands in the field while the birds eat all the seeds. But hopefully, one day it might work, so it’s worth the punt. The biggest problem though, is the farm gate. Well, there isn’t actually one. He sold it off in the summer. To save on costs, Gilesy put some of that ‘Police Line - Do Not Cross’ tape up, that he thought might be enough to keep the cattle in? At least until January anyway. Lo and behold the cattle have been left to their own devices and have spilt all over the village. It’s a bloody mess. High rate car drivers stuck behind cattle all over the road, while Gilesy waves and flaps his arms at passing ramblers who he blames for scaring the cattle out of the field. But not to worry, when January comes, the gate can be sorted. No point in buying a new one though. There’s better value to be had by borrowing a broken clapped out one that doesn’t shut properly... because that’s the best way Gilesy operates.

127. Badarse

     Nov 14, 2014, 19:11 #61367

     He stood alone in Central Command, holding his leaking, Peppa Pig hot water bottle, as the wind whistled through the taped, cracked window panes. The howling, moaning sound disturbed him, but he knew he should tough it out, it would be something he would have to get used to where he was going. He noted the song sheets of, 'We All Clap Hands Together', littering the near empty office. He'd loved the community singing with the leader, especially when the Morris Dancers were on tour and paid their annual visit. Ah, memories! He looked at the photo of the leader pinned to the dartboard with a dart in it's nose and shook his head, then he shook his leg. His eyes narrowed to two vicious slits-the conjunctivitis was back. He threw his poncho over his shoulder and it knocked the milk jug off the table, he then put it on properly. 'I am the man with no socks!', he thought to himself as he heard the strange spaghetti western music playing-he must have a word with the Mexican neighbour later, for now he just banged on the wall with the kettle-then the handle fell off! He'd decided on a lower case identity, since tripping over his huge travelling trunk in the cellar. He knew upper case upset some wibbly ones, though their nephew's MARCUS oddly didn't. He buckled on his belt and laced the holster tightly to his thigh, then tighter still, he loved the bondage part of dressing. He slipped a Ginsters giant pasty into the holster, and loaded it up with a sachet of ketchup. He pulled his Stetson down over his eyes, turned and walked into the chair. Opening the door he took one last comforting look around, catching his jangling Sours on the mat, and tripped back into the room. 'Susej!' he cursed, though at HQ they had long since referred to it as 'cusping', then they would all giggle together until the leader looked disapprovingly at them. He stood on the threshold of a dream, whoops that was the Moody Blues, not Blue Moanies; with a slick movement he rolled the cheroot between his knees, and squinted into the daylight, the conjunctivitis was getting worse. He strode to the kerb, he was a tyre-kicker, he knew that, so kicked the tyre of his moped-it fell over. He picked it up and nonchalantly eased himself into the saddle. 'We're heading west, Mo.' he said to the machine, he called it 'Mo' as 'Ped' didn't quite do it for him. He knew this was his time, and his time was five past six. He was going to be sorely tested, like Ron's hairstyle had tested most. He'd perfected a unique 'comb-over' by carefully growing each of the small tufts of hair either side of his head into eighteen inch strands, then he'd knotted and plaited them on top of his head. It was OK in itself, except that he thought he looked a bit like a Samurai and had taken to calling himself 'Man of Sushi', and constantly said, 'Ah-sol' to everyone at Sunday School. jeff would also be troublesome, he'd perfected the art of whining so well he could do it through his nostrils with closed mouth. He was working on wiggling his ears at the same time, thinking it would end his 'rear-end of the Panto horse' typecasting. The Dark Lord would fortify the motley crew; they'd do his bidding for fear of a bite on the bum. He was still the master at opening Tetra packs with his teeth. Hiccup was a menace. His humour disarmed so many, he knew he must resist it. He knew he could puncture maguiresbridge's wellies, so wasn't too worried on that score. He looked at the 'Betty Boop' clock on the wall and thought, 'Time flies like an arrow, and fruit flies like a banana.' Then, clutching his copy of, 'I Haven't Spent a Day Appreciating Arsenal's Football', by AMG, he left to begin his quest.

128. maguiresbridge gooner

     Nov 14, 2014, 18:43 #61366

     Hiccup, sad isn't it, and the vacationers will all be back.

129. Hiccup

     Nov 14, 2014, 17:49 #61363

     Like it Canada. My sentiments exactly. We've put up with this sh!tfest for so many years, only to be told what a fantastic job wenger is doing, that more of the same sh!t surely has to be construed as a continuation of this success? If you want to tell me abysmal pre season planning in the past has been acceptable, then why shouldn't it be acceptable now? If getting stuffed by anyone of note has been worth putting up with in the past, why should we be bothered now? And as you've mentioned, the good old capitulations are back on the menu again. Two in a week for good measure. And now we are back with the murmurs of protest. Give it two wins on the bounce and we will be back to arsenal are back on track and we will strengthen in January, etc. Before you know it May is here, we're back in 4th which will be described as wenger performing miracles with such a threadbare squad, and you know where it goes from there. Nothing will change.

130. Bard

     Nov 14, 2014, 16:51 #61361

     Nick T really good post mate, my sentiments exactly. This different respective issue is at the heart of the debate. We, the fans, want good football and a competitive side, Stan doesn't give a flying f*** about football his interest is in making money. As long as the stadium is full and the 'brand' continues to reap rewards everything stays the same. I agree if Wenger gets dogs abuse week after week, he may well call time.

131. maguiresbridge gooner

     Nov 14, 2014, 16:43 #61360

     A bit of a farming take on this. Certainly nothing has changed, the only thing that has is the fans who were always waiting thinking it would now know it won't. We're still wading about in the same dung in our willies, with the same old farmer trying to turn a field full of calves and dry and lame cows into a pedigree herd that will be come best in show. That won't happen until a dynamic new farmer with up to date methods comes along and replaces the tired old non producing herd and sucklers with a proper producing herd, and then maybe we can stop being embarrassed and become best on show again and hold our head up high in the parade ring and win rossetts.

132. Nick T

     Nov 14, 2014, 15:34 #61356

     It is in no way AW's club at all! He doesn't own any shares and is merely an employee of AFC, for which he is handsomely rewarded!! The debate in my mind is who any of these supposed planned protests should be directed towards. I'm absolutely of the belief AW has to go but as in any organisation its one big layer cake and the blame ultimately lies at the top and that is Stan. Ill never give the players who wear the shirt grief because they don't pick themselves hence why AW then takes the flak. Taking that a step further if you're AW, trying your best (in his own mind at least!), being paid a fortune but performing poorly/negligently, then you must again face questions/consequences and be answerable to your employer....Kronke. Problem is 'performing poorly' depends on your perspective. The man knows f*ck all about 'soccer' so until it hits him in the wallet Stan isn't gonna do anything. AW might walk if the atmosphere became truly toxic and widespread but I don't think that will happen so any protest must be aimed at hurting 'the business' then he'll take notice.

133. Bard

     Nov 14, 2014, 14:06 #61354

     On the contrary Canada i can completely see what the fuss is about. It emanates from two different sources. We accepted and endured the years when we were told we were skint because of the stadium debt, this year we were told we had all that under control and we had the finances to kick on and make a challenge. Prices went up again and lo and behold instead of competing we are actually worse that we were last year. If that doesn't make your blood boil then I don't know what would.

134. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

     Nov 14, 2014, 14:03 #61353

     Part of me also thinks that the reason we are now getting sussed by the so-called "lesser" sides is due to the general lack of quality in the league (which has been obvious for some time now) resulting in a more level playing field. The game now is all about the TEAM not the INDIVIDUAL (the 2010 World Cup should have shown everyone that). Combine this with the change in the games tactics, now it's a counterattacking game - get the first goal and then set up to hit them on the break - and our manager who insists on playing tippy tappy football whether it's Dortmund or Doncaster, and you have the recipe for what we see in front of us at the moment. I honestly thought that when he went to one up front from 2005-06 onwards OGL was keeping up with the game, but it seems since to have long passed him by.

135. jeff wright

     Nov 14, 2014, 13:40 #61352

     Wenger's approach to the tactical side of the game is just a simple Kevin Keegan gung-ho go for goals and forget anything else one . It is no coincidence either that King Kev is Wenger's biggest fan. Many have pondered for donkeys years why Wenger plays so many players out of their best position,the answer is that he sets out his stall in every game to win the game and thinks that playing those players in the role that he assigns to them will help him to win to so . That's why he had Ozil out wide at Chelsea he said afterwards although Ozil had heard something crack in his leg that he ( Wenger sent him out again because I wanted to win the game. Ironically for a manager who draws a lot of games that he should win , due to his lack of attention to proper defending ,he never sets out , even when facing superior, or dangerous counter a attacking opponents in away games to try and at least secure one These draws are mainly against lower opponents,Wenger usually loses away games to the top sides, come about mainly due to our inability to defend leads even 4-0 and 3-0 ones on occasion,losing 2 goal leads and 1 nil ones is normal service,even back in the Invincible days season 10 or 11 games ended in draws in the Prem that term and the team was no better in Europe than the current recent sides have been. Wenger is in big trouble this season because of his neglecting of the defensive side of our squad the chickens have come home to roost earlier this time with and sky is falling in on him . Stubborn as a mule though he still refuses to change ,he probably never noticed that Chambers was getting roasted like a spring chicken on a spit last Sunday so engrossed was he in concentrating on the ATTACKING side of our game sitting twitching and fretting nervously waiting for Sanchez and Danny Boy to bang in a few goals . Wenger using his Kevin Keegan gung-ho style of play needs more them to score 2 goals in every game to have any hope of winning it and that is never going to happen. Some may point to goals conceded by Chelsea as being similar to our ones,but this is an illusion,it depends on how the goals are conceded and in what games,a couple of 1-1's away to United and City are acceptable results for the away side and bad ones for the home side,especially top 4 hopefuls. Dropping points at home, after being ahead in games such as the situation when we led 2-1 against City are not good results and pile on the pressure to then have to win away ones like Chelsea at the bridge of sighs. Jose loves it when Wenger shows up all full of optimism trying with his KK gung-ho tactics to beat him, whereas a point would suffice and dent Mourinho's massive ego if Wenger parked the bus and made Jose's crew toil and sweat for a win . Overall Wenger has clearly lost the plot for donkeys years now big-time and it's a rule in football that managers are judged on current results not on what they did last season or seasons gone by .The rules though for Wenger have been changed and he gets judged on what he may do in the future,the latest malarkey being that he is putting a team of young English players together for the future . So what happened to the I don't look at players passports then when I sign them? Wenger will come out with anything at any given time to try and present the impression that he knows what he is doing,the amazing thing is that so many people ,albeit a declining amount, still believe in him. You couldn't make it up.

136. Steve

     Nov 14, 2014, 13:34 #61351

     Not that you could have been there Canada but I think you would empathise more with the fuss had you held a season ticket between 2008-2013. The fans have painfully endured the manager/players/club earn more and more money in return for less and less ambition/beleif/Arsenal fighting spirit. From the manager down we represent nothing about what Arsenal is about. I dont put Steve Bould in that bracket. And now we have to revise our ambitions? I just want to watch Arsenal

137. taks

     Nov 14, 2014, 13:33 #61350

     For all those who thinks Klopp is a better manager, please look at BD's position on the table in teh BVB. Arsenal remains a great club because of AW. We would have suffered and remained in teh dark ages if not for him. Instead we are a modern club on teh verge of challenging teh changed landscape of teh Chelkies and ****es of the BPL.

138. jjetplane

     Nov 14, 2014, 12:53 #61348

     Platt to Bould to Adams. UNCHIVES that was an incredible game what with Anelka smiling like a cheshire cat and Overmars running the lenght of the field and then us almost rocking Dein's car over in Station Terrace. Mad day, mad night. Adams was holding that altogether and suitably bemused methinks by the bit part played by that professor. That bit part has dwindled to a footballing nothingness. Maybe Bouldie and DB10m for the rest of the season and maybe Overmars. What fun that could be but the clear out would have to be ruthless. The way football works now we have one defender in the team. Step forward Sanchez. Contrast with the efficiently useless BFG who looks like he is out on a stroll in some posh park. He ****ing is! Beam us up Klopp!

139. Tony Evans

     Nov 14, 2014, 12:40 #61347

     I get your point Canada - you could more or less pick any season from the last 7 or so and the same defensive shambles would be making the likes of you and me cringe with embarrassment at how the once famed Arsenal resilience had been reduced to the farcical levels we now see.

140. Unchives

     Nov 14, 2014, 12:19 #61345

     I watched Sky's Review of the 97/98 season recently, Wenger's first full season in charge & our Double season. The finish at the end, showing the highs and lows of each club,great ending soundtrack, with Tony Adams scoring that goal.....it did sum it all up....I admit I had tears in my eyes, this is what we wish & watch Arsenal for!

141. Ron

     Nov 14, 2014, 11:33 #61341

     Ive never heard one person ever say that 'hate' Arsene Wenger and if anybody does, i pity them. Ive never heard anybody state that Wenger isnt a great piece of the Clubs history either. Who's Club is it? Not AWs and for sure its not the fans Club. Its Kroenke's Club. The shares he holds says as much. There's no 'commotion', just exchanges of opinion. Man City have embarrassed British football have they? Add to that then every Club from these shores who have all done it in their first 3-4 years of entry, inc Arsenal who were a shambles in it for 6 years with supposedly Wengers best team. Great to see Saints and Hammers up there. Neither will be in the CL though.

142. Jumpers for Goalposts

     Nov 14, 2014, 10:56 #61340

     Sorry mate but this is a poor article. The fuss is all about paying the highest prices in World football to watch a sub standard team. The fuss is all about an out-of-touch Board of Directors, concerned only with profit. The fuss is all about 10 years of under-achievement and seeing the same mistakes repeated over and over again. And the fuss is definitely all about Arsene Wenger - the man that used to be brilliant but is now a Serial Specialist in Failure.