There used to be a football club over there

Timely tale of two Gunners



There used to be a football club over there


'Reggie! Oi, Reginald! Fancy popping into the pub after work - just for a 'quick one'?' shouted Archie, trying to make himself heard above the clattering cacophony of the factory's machines. Reginald, mouthed back a 'yes' with the necessary head nodding. After 'clocking out', the two friends strolled up the hill on their way home, and detoured eagerly into their local. 'I'm in the chair, me old mucker,' insisted Reginald. 'Moneybags!' snorted Archie, as he sat down beside the open - hearth fire. 'It's all that overtime your section has been doing.' He studied the fresh metal cuts on his fingers, as his chum made a joke of tottering towards their table with two pints in his hands. 'There lad, get that down you, it'll put hairs on your chest - that'll probably make seven, or will it be eight?' Both men chuckled and took long draughts of their ale. 'Ah, that's champion.' both said at the same time, and laughed at the amusement of the coincidence. 'Yeah, me old mate, but not like the Arsenal.' ventured Archibald. 'I know, it's really buggering me off.' agreed Reginald. Both men sat hunched over their pints, as an air of melancholy settled over them. 'Supported them all me bloody life, Archie. Now look at them. They're not the Arsenal I knew. Why do they have to move ground? Nothing good will come of it, I'm telling you. Season over and nothing to look forward to, though the overtime will give me a few coppers more for a day out at the seaside with the family.'

Archibald looked a little apprehensive, he'd had this type of exchange before with his pal, and knew this probably wouldn't end well. 'Well it's all about finances Reggie. You know that. Bigger ground, more seats, more money, better players - why we might even win things! We need to get back out of the second division, It ain't difficult to work out mate. Anyway we've moved before, haven't we?' Reginald looked up from his drink and Archie thought there were tears in his friend's eyes. 'I know that Archie, but they are becoming soulless, these people running our club, bloody soulless. They'll probably change their shirts next, even their name will change I bet, I wouldn't put anything past them moneygrubbers - it's just a business to them. Bloody money. See they don't need us now. They've got this new owner, and I ask you, does he really care about us? Does he really care about our Arsenal? No he don't, it's all business to him.' Reginald, diatribe over, took a large swig of his beer, and Archibald reading the situation well, got to his feet, and made for the bar. 'Same again Reggie?' he called back over his shoulder. 'Aye lad, that'll do nicely.'

The two men had been sitting for nearly an hour now, chasing the conversation around and around, as they kicked it about, like an old, half-inflated football. 'I remember when they needed us - were glad to have us. Now they'll just get some new 'Johnny come latelys' to watch them, but they won't know the team as we do. They won't be proper fans, won't be connected, just bloody tourists if you like.' Reginald angrily complained. 'Tourists. I like that.' said Archibald, trying with a little chuckle, to placate his friend's ire, but failing. 'I can still recollect the good times Archie, me old son.' Archibald raised his eyebrows, 'Of course you can Reggie, why it was only just over a week ago when we saw them play the last game of the season, 'course drawing 1 - 1 with the 'Boro got us relegated, so I'm not so sure it was all that much of a good time.' Levity wasn't working, he knew reason was leaving his friend, with the alcohol consumed. 'You know what I mean Archie. Now don't get cocky with me. You're still only a whipper-snapper, lad.' Reginald took a 'dogged' Woodbine from behind his right ear. He tried to give his young friend a stern look, though he knew it wasn't working that well, they had too much love for each other though both men would shrink from the word 'love', insisting it was merely respect. Reginald then took his box of 'Swan' from his waistcoat and lit his cigarette.

Archibald adopted a different tack, 'Listen Reggie, we will be able to attract a wider area of fans, so will get more support...', 'Yeah, and more money is what you means.' retorted Reginald. 'Leave that aside for a mo Reggie. This Mister Norris reckons we are ready to go under if we don't move - it's a kind of survival, if you like. Anyway it means people will be able to travel in more easily once we move to this 'ere Highbury - you know, from the provinces.' replied the younger man. 'Next you'll be suggesting the blue bloods will be travelling in from places like Cambridge, leaving their horses and punts behind for the day.' snorted Reginald. 'Well not from that far afield, who would be daft enough to travel that sort of distance? I do think that some from outside of London might make the trip, say from distant places like Barnet and Borehamwood.' assured the younger man. 'The only thing that concerns me Reggie, is the closeness to that first division club, you know, those Hotspurs. We may not fare so well, having to live in their shadow.' The older man, spluttered at this, spraying some of his ale across the table. 'What's that you say? Why I don't ever want to hear the like of those words again young fella, never! You hear? We shall be in no one's shadow, ever! More as like they'll finish in ours, and never emerge from the darkness, bloody Hotspurs!', Archibald disguised a little smirk, he thought to himself, 'There's more than one way to skin a cat.' Reginald wasn't finished with his young friend. 'You just remember who you are young Archibald, and what you are, and who you represent. We are the Arsenal - even if not the Woolwich Arsenal anymore, but it counts for the same thing.' 'Got it Reggie!' Archibald smiled. The two men agreed on one last pint each.

'Thing is Reggie, there are more important things going on.' 'More important?' shouted Reginald in a too loud voice. He struck a defiant pose, planting his elbow forcefully on the table, he narrowly missed it, and it slipped off the edge poking himself in the eye with his admonishing finger. 'Sod it!' was all he mustered. 'This trouble in Europe, Reggie. I read an article and it said with all these alliances and thingummybobs countries have with each other, that if a conflict occurs it could develop into a world war. Think on that! A world war, the whole world fighting each other. Then who knows what we would see once the dust settles afterwards. I reckon it's why we've been producing extra munitions with all this overtime, these buggers who rule are planning something, and I bet I'm right on that one.' 'Won't see our Woolwich Arsenal that's for sure.' Reginald had strayed back to his main topic. 'That is already history. I bet they got some of these fancy - Dan players lined up already, those who won't cock a snoop at us poor old working class fans, you mark me on that!' remonstrated Reginald. Archibald leant across and took a piece of peanut shell from his friends chin. 'Had to take that off chum.' he said showing his friend the offending particle. 'Was distracting me.', he laughed, 'Hope it's the only shell you get near your mouth - no sucking on bullets.' The men laughed together.

Supping on their last dregs, a slightly more melancholy Reginald smiled across at his friend. He reached across and his gnarled and calloused hand patted his young compatriot's. 'We'll give it a go then youngster. We'll go and see this new Highbury Arsenal together. They can't take our feelings away from us, even if they bloody well change them a bit. ' Archibald nodded. 'That they can't, me old chap. Even if it was Sebastopol Arsenal it would still belong to us. Gunners we are, Gunners we shall always be, why we'll die Gunners.' Both men had difficulty standing, Archibald stumbling over the leg of Reginald's chair, mainly due to the clumsiness of his hob - nailed boots. Both men laughed heartily at the recognition of their drunken state. Clasping the smaller and younger man around the shoulder, Reginald said, 'Come on Archie lad, let's head home, your Ma will be blaming me again for leading you astray. Just you remember me old cocker, "Good old Woolwich Arsenal, for ever!".' 'That's the ticket, Reggie.' Archibald laughed as he grasped the arm on his shoulder, and they tottered out into the chilled evening air. 'Do you reckon Reggie, that sometime in the future someone will ever say, "There used to be a football club over there." 'Nah, my young chap, if they ever do they will be talking about some small-time team, mark me on that.' The sound of their steel-capped boots rattled on the cobbles, and the defiant, 'Gunners 'til we die!' echoed in the foggy, near deserted street.

EPILOGUE:

The two men did go to Highbury the following season, watching them win their first game 2 - 1 against Leicester Fosse, it helped ease them into their new home. The long road back to the first division had begun, in life's never ending cycle. Coincidentally, due to a nasty bout of influenza and work commitments affecting the younger man, Reginald went a little more often than Archibald. Despite their grumbles both loved it. The ensuing season saw Archibald conscripted to the front, Reginald followed two months later. Ironically the same time span marked their demise. Each cut down by a withering hail of bullets as on separate occasions, in different shell-pocked fields, they each led a spirited charge over the top. Poor strategy, and weak defences did for them. They were indeed Gunners 'til they died. Reginald was hit by a shell in the face. He would have laughed at the irony, had he been able.


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comments

  1. jeff wright

    Nov 23, 2014, 14:27 #61778

    Yep, Brian was also a character in a Monty Python film ,I suspect though that our Brian (who is also known by a variety of other names on here) is indeed a Magic Roundabout one, he used to sit under the big clock with his crayon book filling in pink elephants he was better at doing this than he is attempting to try and disguise his many same mantra posts as being by different Wenger fans. Now lets all sing a song together for Brian ...this little train goes up the hill, up the hill, up the hill. This little train goes up the hill...all day long...

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 23, 2014, 12:43 #61757

    jw, a new super fan, Brian, wasn't that one of the characters from the magic round about?

  3. jeff wright

    Nov 23, 2014, 10:34 #61740

    My gawd,you are making me cry Brain little loyally you paying money to keep Diaby in the life to which he has become accustomed and Stan's 3m bonus , plus Arsene's new 8m wages ... what an hero you are! It's a results game Brian,not a pantomime,although Wenger's clueless comical charade is like watching one... hey Brian you don't win any medals for being a mug if you want to pay up to be one then carry on regardless... but don't expect any sympathy for doing so. You couldn't make it up.

  4. Brian

    Nov 22, 2014, 23:45 #61704

    Manure dominated from the start.Our pressing passing game was never going to be a match for their defensive hoofball.They have a tactical genius like Fergy before who parks ten men behind the ball,brilliantly plays for freekicks while all we have to offer is total football.It wouldn't surprise me if Sanchez,Wilshere,Walcott and Ozil all buggered off to one of these brilliant football institutions where they could tactically grow as players.Poo to Wenger and his footballing ethics,we want players who are gonna die for the cause,not busted flushes like Wenger brings in.Us wobs are the only true fans and the ones in the know,we never turn up for games and only boo the team which is the only way forward. Akb's are clueless tourists who back the team whatever the result which shows they have no true devotion.I'm off now to arrange a protest about ticket prices and Wengers inflated wages.

  5. jeff wright

    Nov 22, 2014, 23:23 #61703

    MG, the AKB's , such as lee KFC , cluck! ...cluck!... cluck !... he calls himself Gun Gun Gun ,a case of buy one get 2 free ,on another forum, never appear when things have gone wrong. Do you recall how excited some of them were including the finger licker after the win at home against Burnley ? We were said to be on the cusp of something... A good run of results would now follow , or so it was claimed . I still think it will be close for the 3rd and 4th place spots,but we are no certs for one of them this season. Will Stan trust Wenger,who i obviously a busted flush,despite winning the FAC last season,with big bucks to spend in January. Wenger will probably just waste it .Sanchez looks more pissed off with every game . Is this another Arshavin scenario ,in like a lion and out like a lamb. Ozil with more personal problems than Ed Millyband is still out his girlfriend packed her stuff and left him weeks ago ,I suspect that at the end of season he will be joining her.Wenger himself could well be loading up his charabanc and departing if he does fail to get a Champs League spot,he probably won't want to stay anyway if that is the case . ,

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 22:50 #61701

    If this old excuse for a manager had any self respect whatsoever we'd be hearing about, and celebrating his resignation tonight, but oh no the old has been will hang on till the death, his ego will allow nothing else.

  7. Unchives

    Nov 22, 2014, 22:35 #61700

    Out of the League cup @ Home, Out of the PL, Great pretenders in the CL, one bad draw out of the FA Cup.....what more do you Wenger DIE-HARDS want? Please tell? Is it November or March, I cant tell these days!

  8. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 22:31 #61699

    jw, good post and so true but you can be sure the AKB's will have a different take on it (it was somebody else's fault) that's if they appear at all, same old same old nothing changes, you couldn't make it up, but they will.

  9. jeff wright

    Nov 22, 2014, 22:17 #61698

    Bard,I only watched the game on TV but United were so poor that anyone would look good against 'em ! Leicester gave them a thrashing and United had a proper, well, their first team defence out . They had 2 kids playing in tonight's one and Smalling the main man is no great shakes, their midfield was weak and all it needed was a bit of composure in front of goal for us to beat them .Apart from some proper defending of course, unfortunately we had neither . Wenger can't beat top opposition even when they are below par , Rooney usually scores against us and this is no fluke. .Welbeck was running around doing his headless chicken act that United supporters know so well. Just 2 goals this season in the Prem hardly does the case for United having made a boo boo by selling him to us proven. He will have to fight it out with Wally for a place out wide now that Oliver is back,the big over-sexed oaf looks menacing with his Robert De Nero taxi-driver hair do ,but he will have to face far better defences than tonight's one and play for longer than 15 minutes. Wenger is a fool,he should have gone after winning the cup .Here is a leeetle advice for him..... The party's over... Arsene It's time to call it a day... It's time to wind up the masquerade... Just make your mind up the piper must be paid... so go away .... It's all over, mon ami

  10. Unchves

    Nov 22, 2014, 22:16 #61697

    @Bard- nothing has changed except I don't pay £2500 for two tickets anymore. Well done for going and the live report.Best of luck mate.

  11. jjetplane

    Nov 22, 2014, 21:41 #61696

    .... anyway, so on Talksport ... (censored ....) .... AKBs come in all sizes .....

  12. Bard

    Nov 22, 2014, 21:34 #61695

    Just got home from the game. First 20 mins was the best we have played it should have been game set and match, Utd were rubbish but having not scored we were always going to have a keystone cops defensive moment and boy it was a cracker. Untd 1 shot on goal and won 2-0. Nothing will happen but the noose is tightening. Dortmund Wednesday suggests more grief in store. Guys don't start quoting talksport; they are muppets one and all. Good to see Giroud back and well; it was a good goal.

  13. Unchives

    Nov 22, 2014, 21:20 #61694

    COME ON THE GOONERS.....GOONERS FOREVER! GOONER till I DIE!

  14. jjetplane

    Nov 22, 2014, 21:20 #61693

    Have not listened to TAlksport for aeons but tonight is really a WOB's night. They have been at it for hours and you can imagine the narrative of 'he should have walked 7 or 8 years ago' I reckon he should never have come in the first place. We already had DB10 and Adams so the other players would have come. The subject is a bore and it is obvious he has lost the dressing room and next week they will make an announcement along the lines of 'we have given Diaby a new contract and Arsene feels it is like a new signing and the mental strength and spirit (to say nothing of the off-shore portfolios of even the midfielders ...). Anyway - let's wait for Kevin's bit - should be a good one. WESTIE about these Bleaters .....

  15. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 21:18 #61692

    jj, it doesn't surprise me or i'm sure any one, but at least what it does do is show and tell us all that the powers that be (and indeed i'm sure the old fraud himself)know what the majority want and are thinking and that can only be a good thing.

  16. jjetplane

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:53 #61690

    WOBS 10 AKBs 1 (Latest score). Some bloke reckons Diaby should be sold. I really fail to see what is so funny ......

  17. jeff wright

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:52 #61689

    Same old clueless rubbish fro Wenger all gung-ho and tippy tappy ... nutjob GK flying out like a wardrobe in the night causing mayhem... then he slunk off in embarrassment ... Wilshere lucky not to get a red card for his head in the chest on the Jackson 5 lookalike all over nothing b ut frustration ... a bad miss from Di Maria saved us from further punishment... phew! Our defence again looking about as much use as the Maginot Line ... Wenger usual excuses after the latest humiliation (yawn ) he said we were reckless after going a goal down and should have defended better... as though this was something new >>>! you couldn't make it up... in the end against a team that has not won an away game anywhere this season we lost to them... Then again you don't need to do. The sad thing is that it was not even a surprise... Ramsey needs to shut up predicting that we are about to come out of hibernation and take flight ... he along with a number of others was awful ... the depressing thing is that United did not need to try that hard to beat us ... possession and passing means **** all if you don't score goals from it all... just like in other games this season we always looked likely after 30 minutes of passing and possession came to nothing to get caught out in defence . Giroud took his chance well although the GK got a hand to the shot .. but it's just deja vu with us needing to score 3 goals to win at home against a side struggling in away games... but if anyone can give United a boost when they need one then Arsene clever clogs Wenger is him ... he handed Sir Ferguson the title by selling him Persie thus allowing him to retire with a grin on his red bloated face and now he is helping LVG to get a top 4 spot! Wenger is a genius they should build a statue of him... at United.

  18. Hiccup

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:50 #61687

    jj, that was the worse United team I think I have ever seen? Maybe going back to the eighties there might have been worse, but I doubt it. They always had Robbo, Whiteside, etc. Maybe yourself or Ron can shed some light on a worse United team, maybe the team that got relegated in the 70's? I actually pitied them today. That defence of theirs was a joke. Two kids out of their depth and Smslling. Laughable. Can see how even how Burnley got something out of them. And can even see how Leicester put 5 past them. Meanwhile, back in the land of miracles, we have to wait til injury time to score a consolation goal. Missed the start of Strictly for that sh!t....

  19. Unchives

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:49 #61685

    Wengerlites Out......Times is up......No More!LONG LIVE ARSENAL!

  20. jjetplane

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:38 #61684

    .... oh and they were confiscating Wenger Out materials (sic) at the errr 'Grove' Banana Republics anyone!? Smalling had a good game. You could not make it up.

  21. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:38 #61683

    Not to worry folks it's only a blip.

  22. Hiccup

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:36 #61682

    In stitches Exeter! Apparently, Jamie wanted to throw the towel in for Baddie yesterday, but because the towel had been used to wipe wenger's brow after the Anderlecht capitulation, he didn't want to get the shrine mucky.

  23. Roy

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:36 #61681

    Ooooh, jjetplane ... Shut yer face Missus . Well, let's face it, if we can't laugh we'll cry now. Now stop messin' about.

  24. Unchives

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:35 #61680

    GO..GO.GO.GO NOW! your time is up!

  25. jjetplane

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:25 #61677

    Very lively on talksport - hope PETE and JAMIE are listening. Collymore at one point said he has never seen anything so poor in PL history as the episode where di Maria had half the pitch to himself. They are doing a wenger Out Poll and everyone is saying **** off outa here. Wenger reckons we 'had 5 good opportunities in the first half' and should have beaten Utd easily - he should be sacked for that. HOWEVER there is a silver lining. Arsenal should bounce back and beat QPR .... Carry on making money! yak yak ....

  26. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:05 #61673

    Badarse - THAT'S a rope-a-dope. What happened to you earlier was a straightforward pummelling.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 20:04 #61672

    I wonder who's/what's to blame for that, no doubt we'll be told.

  28. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 19:53 #61671

    There used to be a football club over there.

  29. Hiccup

    Nov 22, 2014, 19:45 #61668

    Behave yourselves guys! United are a top half team. When was the last time we beat a team in the top half? West Brom are up next week. Beating the sh!t is how we measure this team. That's where the miracles are. Can't beat any team of note, but wenger still performs miracles year in year out? Baddie, your application form to join the wob's is in the post...

  30. If I was Alexis I'd be off in January

    Nov 22, 2014, 19:44 #61667

    Can anyone put forward a coherent argument why he wouldn't be thinking that way ? Yes, there used to be a football club over there.

  31. Smithy

    Nov 22, 2014, 19:23 #61665

    Taxi for arsene! Taxi for gazidis! Taxi for silent stan!

  32. Roy

    Nov 22, 2014, 19:16 #61664

    Lowest points total after a dozen games for 32 years. Wenger out.

  33. jjetplane

    Nov 22, 2014, 18:04 #61663

    BADDIe nicely cleared up we must have started walking real early but memories of those days do seem fuzzy as we have talked about this before. Like watching Armstrong on the far wing from the schoolboys and thinking what an ace haircut Samuels had. Cool that you was a mod - used to love the **** my eldest bruv wore. Knitted Fred Perrys, mohair suits with his doc martens. Funny how we changed appearances overnight in those days. The quick run from skin to suede to hippy in a couple of years! Hilarious! Out of the Vase cup and it was a cracking game! Now we have to climb up from 9th in the league .... Arsenal all over a very ordinary Utd. Everton would be a tougher game at the moment.

  34. Badarse

    Nov 22, 2014, 14:54 #61662

    jjetplane Monday May 3rd 1971, WHL. Wasn't ticketed. You got in with your brothers by paying at the gate. Those two games you saw gave you a pair of kings, (Sammels and Kennedy), I held a winning prial of aces, by being at Wembley Saturday 8th May, (Sammy, Ray, Charlie). My best year also. I was a cultured mod of course, rather than a rascal skin. Those blows Hiccup? I practised the old Ali, 'Rope-a-dope'. None could put me down, however I do suffer from a sense of ennui, but not to confuse WOB HQ, that has nothing to do with Thierry Ennui. Bayonets at the ready-we are soon to go over the top, so just wear your shin pads higher. Must scarper, I hear a coffin lid creaking, or then again it could be my dodgy knee.

  35. jjetplane

    Nov 22, 2014, 14:05 #61661

    Sitting here still thinking on that '71 game at WHL. I was 14 and still cannot work out how we had tickets for it. Massive meet at Manor Hse (where we had just moved to - problem family ha ha) and then the walk down to Spudland singing all the way. Little bruv nearly copped it in the squeeze and so we were pulled out of the crowd and were watching from where Armstrong put that ball in. We all walked back together and the songs never stopped The best football year of my life. On the pitch when we won the Fairs cup too but was not at Wembley for Charlie's goal. We hung around the Gunners that early evening, mainly laughing at our eldest one who was pissed and talking **** to one and all. Mod Skins everywhere. We were classy then.

  36. Ron

    Nov 22, 2014, 12:21 #61660

    Howard - no it wouldnt . That 2-2 at WHL in 04 doesn't compare does it and doesnt even get remotely close in effect, joy, triumphalism and drama. I wasnt at that 71 match but was at it in 04. In truth, it was a bit of a let down, like having our plug pulled and felt a bit flat. Others there if honest would say the same I feel. You may have been there yself mate? It also shows that Wengers teams have been blowing matches for years and its not new, not at all. Some of his disciples forget we ve blew matches since 03 under him and make out its a recent failing. Is it hell.

  37. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 11:43 #61659

    Hiccup, they've used the rent money to purchase the assignment of nail clippers that has been delivered to stop whats left of them them biting them, and they're all sitting around franticly clipping away, but you can be sure they'll be back in force to tell us the league and CL is on after we do man yoo this evening.

  38. HowardL

    Nov 22, 2014, 11:04 #61658

    The 70-71 season and its fantastic climax is what football is all about. My response to Kennedy's goal at the time was that scoring was the worst thing Arsenal could have done as it produced a response from Spurs. Winning the league with a 0-0 draw would not have been the same - and Tottenham knew it. 'We drew the league at White Hart Lane' doesn't quite have the same ring. I myself queued for 3 hours to get in, sang myself hoarse, ran on the pitch and hung from the crossbar. Just as well I did; as football is now - brilliantly discussed earlier in this thread and this morning's Times - the opportunity is unlikely to recur in my lifetime.

  39. Unchives

    Nov 22, 2014, 10:47 #61657

    @Hiccup - I agree, Wenger had a stay of Execution, with the International break. Any embarrassments today and its over & out for him. If we cant beat the worst Man Utd side for 20 years, and at home, we never will.

  40. Hiccup

    Nov 22, 2014, 7:06 #61656

    mg, a massive, massive day in the history of the AKB movement. It's make or break today I feel. There's currently more UKIP MP's running around than AKB's. I don't know how they're managing to pay the rent at Central Command with such dwindling numbers? Looks like Jamie's been on the ale again last night...

  41. JAMIE

    Nov 22, 2014, 2:00 #61655

    If Arsenal had signed Messi the Wob's would have driven him out long ago.Fact.

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 22, 2014, 0:48 #61654

    A big day for OGL and his followers today (but isn't it always now as with someone just hanging on) another stuffing or embarrassment and it could well spell the end, another nail in his coffin, but I suppose they don't call him the messiah for nothing as he has rose from the dead so many times. Today will be no different expect him to come up smelling of roses yet again with another get out of Jail card, another defeat and the excuses will be flowing (as usual)a win and all will be rosy in the garden of Arsenal/arsene (yet again) and the messiah will have risen yet again but in reality nothing will have changed.

  43. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 21, 2014, 22:30 #61653

    Hiccup, Ron, good ones yes it's wengerites like westie who storm WOB machine gun nests single handed, well worth a french eagle or better still and more importantly the order of arsene's garter. Badarse? he'll just have to do with toasting him with brandy, Napoleon of course.

  44. Ron

    Nov 21, 2014, 21:56 #61652

    JJ - Hi mate. Keown reminds me of a care bear with stubble.Round, close together wide eyes and the winged ears?Hes a TV mans dream. The day he ever says anything that strays from the safe line the tele will explode. Im sure he thinks hes the thinking mans pundit? Seems like lower middle class, Oxford chattering class type? Lots of words, little content.

  45. jjetplane

    Nov 21, 2014, 20:54 #61651

    The Kallstrom Strain (see Andromeda) or was it a sprain? What does the guy look like? Where is WESTIE? The only good WOB is a WiBBLE WOB ..... FA Vase tomorrow at three wayhay! then 5 live for some PL muzak ..... Keown - what a tart he looks now! Wonderful posts RON you are a cruel, funny bloke. Loving the Armoury.

  46. Ron

    Nov 21, 2014, 20:17 #61650

    Hmmm, when you put it like that hiccup............. erm, yes. It was the sheer indiscipline of it though that i admired, him just firing off shots randomly, shouting 'you ll never take the East Stand', dressed in his Kallstrom shirt, hooped 1948 socks, baggy shorts , centre hair parting and all Brylcreemed up and rubber Wenger mask on with his pifco pop gun in one hand and spud gun in the other like a CC Clint Eastwood, as central command succumbed to a post Anderlecht WOB bombing, the like of which has never been seen before. That Wenger Cross is indeed deserved if a Court Marshall can be averted. Perhaps he now needs Badarse to represent him in the CC Court to advocate his mitigation?

  47. Hiccup

    Nov 21, 2014, 19:47 #61649

    Ron, after the Swansea defeat though, the loud cry of 'retreat' was upheld by all except Westie. You can't expect all AKB's to follow Westie's kamikaze antics? As far as I was concerned, Baddie followed orders and Westie stayed behind doing it all single handedly. Very brave and deserving of the Wenger Cross maybe, but to me it just showed as much discipline as arsenal trying to hold on to a 3 goal lead!

  48. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 21, 2014, 19:30 #61648

    The next thing we'll hear is it was wenger who made messi and gave him the incentive to be what he is today just because he could have signed him (maybe that's what the deluded old fool wants us to think) i'm sure some of his biggest fans are(more like would have destroyed him) and will be telling us as much next.

  49. Hiccup

    Nov 21, 2014, 19:24 #61647

    Kallstrom! Not gonna go anywhere near that one! That needs a qualified specialist with years of experience of doing this. Extending my arm frantically reaching for a tag on this one...

  50. Ron

    Nov 21, 2014, 19:22 #61646

    Hiccup - what would baddie know about holding the fort? He was out, router in his rucksack and hailing a taxi as quick as Swansea's winner hit the rigging, telling Westlower he d gotta go as he d left the kettle boiling, never to return just recently. Ever likely Westies on compassionate leave after his lone defensive action v the WOB artillery bombardment!

  51. Ron

    Nov 21, 2014, 19:10 #61645

    Bard yer asking the wrong people. Westlower is a Kallstrom specialist (erm, the only one actually). He ll explain it all, especially the bit about signing Big Kally despite his busted back, but i think hes been sent on a course by central command. Its called 'how to defend the fort alone'. Its all about being deserted when you most need support of yr comrades and using survival techniques to carry the fight for 6 days. We ll have to watch him when hes back, CC are upgrading his pop gun to a water pistol. Get ready for some even more forceful, Kallstrom was a good signing shots aimed yr way if he sees your query once hes re armed and re invigorated. Be aware, be very aware. The stoic defence of Kallstrom was heroism in Westies finest hour!

  52. Hiccup

    Nov 21, 2014, 19:07 #61644

    Baddie, you've taken some blows today and it seems to have knocked some of the wind out of your sails. Holding the fort alone can't be easy, and in the past you could have tagged Westie for a breather. I called for a 24 hour truce last week, but I don't think it will wash a second time. I could suggest you lay your arms down and switch your allegiance to the dark moonies side, but I know you will be too proud for that. So as a measure of goodwill as the festive period beckons, I am willing to move over to the good side on a 24 hour free transfer. I have a copy of the manifesto, and am a quick learner. Let's get the ball rolling. For all those moaning about Messi, at least arsenal 'could' have signed Messi, whereas spurs could never have dreamt of it. Put that in your pipes...

  53. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 21, 2014, 18:57 #61643

    Could someone please call the men in white coats to take this old man we have as a manager away, it really is that time now.

  54. Bard

    Nov 21, 2014, 18:40 #61642

    I could have married Penelope Cruz but I didnt. i could have played centre forward for Arsenal but I didnt. If Man U hadn't scored any goals in the 8-2 thrashing we would have won 2-0. He needs to stop all that garbage and start explaining why he bought some of the rubbish he has. I for one would like to know what exactly what was the thinking behind taking on Kallstrom last January. I actually thought it was quite funny Hiccup.

  55. Badarse

    Nov 21, 2014, 17:54 #61641

    Says a lot when even your humour doesn't make me smile Hiccup. C'est la vie.

  56. Hiccup

    Nov 21, 2014, 17:50 #61640

    Shouldn't beat ourselves up on the Messi deal. Firstly, it would have killed the development of Denilson that reaped great awards. And how long would Messi have stuck around as Wenger would have played him in the holding midfield role?

  57. Badarse

    Nov 21, 2014, 17:37 #61639

    On the subject of who shames the club...

  58. Ron

    Nov 21, 2014, 17:28 #61638

    Swordfish Red - Well yes, but we did sign Bendtner, so you have to cut Arsene some slack here? Have a good week end you guys and dont forget to misbehave with poise and dignity!

  59. jjetplane

    Nov 21, 2014, 17:27 #61637

    Wenger is the chief purveyor of football virtuality (there's one or two on here) and as he has nothing (zilch) to contribute to this PL season or for the last decade, the media indulge the old boy as he talks of what if (never) and further shames the club with his money-drilled belligerence. The smug smiles makes other people look and think 'what a waste' of a good club. If the Manks are watching such drivel they will need no more encouragement to try their damnedest to turn the sickly smiles to tears. Messi must wonder 'who?' ...... And don't get me started on Rushdie the 'beefed-up copywriter' ..... Green tea anyone?

  60. Danny

    Nov 21, 2014, 16:36 #61636

    i am getting sick a tired of Wenger saying he nearly signed MESSI, ROLANDO etc players someone should put this old man out of his misery. what a nearly loser!

  61. Badarse

    Nov 21, 2014, 15:37 #61635

    Gentlemen, you can be very amusing, even the non-gentlemen can be too. CGO, HABARI YAKU. Will Self and Salman Rushdie, two main men for me. Will is tightly powerful, and nearly as melancholically self-absorbed as myself. Salman, mmm, a scholar of the highest order, have you read, 'The Satanic Verses'? I recommend it, a great literary work. I love books, especially the one I am colouring at the moment, but the number three doesn't have to be blue, sometimes the sky is yellow.

  62. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 21, 2014, 15:05 #61634

    chris dee, i'm sure his worshipers were hanging on every word of that, maybe they'll present him with a trophy for it at the end of the season.

  63. jeff wright

    Nov 21, 2014, 14:22 #61633

    The lyrics from an old Joni Mitchell song some to mind with Wenger and his could have signed'em but never did .. So many things I would have done, But clouds got in my way. I've looked at clouds from both sides now From up and down and still somehow It's cloud's illusions I recall I really don't know clouds at all. .

  64. Charlie George Orwell

    Nov 21, 2014, 14:08 #61632

    chris dee: Right on. There’s a bit in Perry Grove’s autobiography ‘We All Live In A Perry Groves World’ (tbh didn’t buy it – it came in the season ticket gift box thing), where he has an argument with some disagreeable bloke in a pub who bragged he also could’ve played pro football to which Perry replied: ‘Yeah, yeah, cudda, shudda, wudda!’ ‘I could have bought Messi, Ronaldo, blah, blah, blah’. Yeah Wenger – cudda, shudda, wudda.

  65. maguiresbridgr gooner

    Nov 21, 2014, 13:32 #61631

    It seems even the Hierarchy are getting fed up with the old fraud and lining Pep up as his successor, if so it's took them bloody long enough.

  66. Tony Evans

    Nov 21, 2014, 13:16 #61630

    R/K - I need a bit of a session to warm up for a stag weekend in North Wales next year, which could get very messy indeed! Now where did I put my glass?

  67. Badarse

    Nov 21, 2014, 13:16 #61629

    Dear old maguiresbridge, a bottle of Hennessey heading your way buddy, note the personalised note instructing, 'This Way Up', pointing to the base, so get it down your neck, ha ha. True it is only virtual but the good thing about that is that they are slightly larger bottles than the real ones. I shall be along later with a couple of bottles of 'London Pride'. I was born in Chiswick, this was my drink, and wherever I travel that is a thin connecting thread with home, and yesterday. Ron, bring your guitar, I want to hear a duet with you and R/K. I'll just get a couple of spoons from the cutlery drawer when I arrive. JAMIE is bringing his triangle, though it is an equilateral one of enormous dimensions, (think Stargate), with razor wire filigree around the edges-oh well, to each his own. E/G if you and CGO want to join us I can promise two bottles of Captain Morgan, standard and spiced. Oh by the way, you missed the tongue in cheek nuanced 'bestowed'. It was in keeping with a title being bestowed as opposed to an arrogant old fool actually bestowing the honour itself. Keep riffling though chaps, and if the word confuses, it's a bit like shuffling, but not up to Maverick' cardsharp standards, and well below Derren Brown's. Ron, can I please have a glassful of your rioja. Red wine is my favourite, though Rose and White also have a place at the table, just not the AW whines.

  68. jjetplane

    Nov 21, 2014, 13:04 #61628

    Manufacturing your own persecution - how post-revolutionary is that? re the game tomorrow. Will he play his England boys from the start? Can they continue the friendly form? It really is a must-win game and with Giroud back (new DM? or will it be Danny?) surely he can win just one game against a pretty awful Mank side. Have not been to the Tollington for years but that was some pub in the last century. Times do change. Remember a mate buying a house up the road from there for 2 grand in the days when we were dodgy soul boys. Now he lives by the Thames and has a boat. He's never been to the E.........s either. Good old Arsenal.

  69. radfordkennedy

    Nov 21, 2014, 12:42 #61627

    Badarse...thank you kindly sir,I fear this could turn in to a long afternoon,Tony Evans is here with a bottle of Glenmorangie,Maguires has just come through the door with a bottle of Bushmills in one hand and a box of Romeo y Juliets under his arm,and it looks like Ron as decided to go for the Marquess De Riscal finest Rioja,this could all end up with me trying to get the key in the door singing 'the wild side of life'!cheers good health

  70. chris dee

    Nov 21, 2014, 12:40 #61626

    Fantastic news from Arsene's press conference this morning! Arsene explains how we could have signed Lionel Messi. Messi now stands alonside Ronaldo,Ibrahimovic,Pique along with other world superstars we could have signed. I feel much more confident about our season now!Let's hope this transfer policy of nearly signing great players continues.

  71. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 21, 2014, 12:38 #61625

    Badarse, indeed it was, my apologies and no diss intended I seemed to have got yourself and Exeter mixed up maybe I was taking your advice at the time although I much prefer Hennessey.

  72. Charlie George Orwell

    Nov 21, 2014, 12:38 #61624

    Baddie: Blimey, that’s a bit disappointing. I was looking forward to at least an oh so poignant Swahili proverb (good old Google) or a description of the latest chez Baddie literary soiree where Will Self and Salman Rushdie wait on your every word. There you go again with your self-important description as being the ‘punch bag when Arsenal disappoint’. No you’re not. When Arsenal disappoint, any culpability is levelled in a fair and sensible way – particularly by Kevin W – and not to individuals like you who obviously have no influence in the outcome. Your ‘views’ on continuing with the ongoing debacle that is Arsenal management is why most people disagree with you. By the way, what’s wrong with ‘showing your hands so candidly’ – to do otherwise seems dishonest to me.

  73. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 21, 2014, 12:35 #61623

    Badares, in continuously informing us of your 'alternative' view, you've forgotten something - actually outlining what that view is. If we've missed it, why don't you rearticulate it for us? I'd like to see a well reasoned case for the defence, and it seems I'm not alone, so clearly something is missing.

  74. Badarse

    Nov 21, 2014, 11:38 #61622

    Ha ha, how you manage to froth at the mouth CGO and E/G, now of course if I was on your 'side', it would be so different, you show your hands so candidly. 'He doesn't engage', is more spin, I shall have to 'bestow' the title of 'washing machine', if you continue going around and around. Look, you have come in halfway through the film and seem to have little background. I have explained my reasons for not wanting AW's head. It is a choice. Much of the criticism levelled at him is sound, I have my own, but sadly, as in most bun fights of today perspective is often lost. People have agendas and generally the line of discussion becomes transparently obvious that they are being pursued. I won't engage with that, and have no desire to be the punch bag whenever Arsenal disappoint. No illuminations from me, I'm afraid, just my view. I think it clearly troubles some that there is an alternative outlook, oh thank goodness we are all different. A little closer scrutiny and it may become apparent that there is a whole spectrum of views, mine happens to be on the edge compared to your own. 'Garcon! A large bottle of Calvados to table number nine please, with my compliments, oh, and leave the bottle.'

  75. radfordkennedy

    Nov 21, 2014, 10:17 #61621

    Tony Evans...if we're making an early start mate i'll join you in a large Calvados cheers!...as to tomorrows game i got a feeling it could end up 3-2 to either side its just a question of whose defence bursts into tears first really.It could get a bit tasty in the stands should we make a right horlicks of it,i would imagine the stewards are being fed red meat and tartrazine to get them in the mood should someone dare to voice an opinion above a whisper.

  76. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 21, 2014, 9:56 #61620

    @CGO. Indeed. He doesn't engage, he 'lowers the status' thus raising himself above. Moral superiority of the sort he believes Wenger possesses. He believes that if only the rest of us possessed his ability to see things in a larger context, then we'd see the light.

  77. Ron

    Nov 21, 2014, 9:56 #61619

    Tony - with you all the way mate as usual. If only a few more people inside the 'game' would see it for what it is and change it? Too much money to lose though isnt there mate.

  78. Tony Evans

    Nov 21, 2014, 9:23 #61618

    Ron - This media led cobblers trying to manufacture some excitement about the battle to finish in the top four leaves me cold. Where's the excitement in battling to qualify for a competition only two or three clubs have any chance of winning? Football has long since sold out to the big clubs, and in the process has ruined the three once great European competitions. Now we are left with the appalling Europa League and a devalued European Cup. As for tomorrows game what a contrast to the old rivalry back in say 2003 when you had two great teams coming together like a couple of juggernauts. Now it's more like two Sinclair C5s!

  79. jeff wright

    Nov 21, 2014, 9:18 #61617

    Ron,this so called Champions League with the top 4 or 3 rather qualifying automatically for it ,and the big bucks that come with this , has neutered the Prem and also the domestic cups as well. The players and managers get well rewarded for all of the tedium and this for them makes it worthwhile. Wenger himself has made some 60m out of all it .Not bad for a guy who turned up at Highbury unknown and with out a pot to piss in. You can see though why he has not scurried away in a hurry. Wenger also made sure that he got even more cash from us before signing up for another 3 seasons of his magic. Whatever the result the comments he makes post-match are easily predictable. Then again he has had donkeys years of practice at making them. Yawn.

  80. Charlie George Orwell

    Nov 21, 2014, 8:59 #61616

    Exeter: Spot on re Baddie. No valid counters at all – and there never will be. And the piousness of it all is just too much. The frequent references to his own life in a way that’s meant to show how superior he is to the rest of us. The latest guff includes how he didn’t give Bard a name, he ‘bestowed the title upon’ him, where he instructs us to ‘discuss’ one of his random thoughts like an authoritarian Victorian schoolmaster and an account of how he ‘wiped away the tears’ of a broken hearted young Gooner. I bet his self-fitted halo was extra shiny that day. Christ, if I wanted to subject myself to such arrogant tripe, I’d buy Richard Branson’s autobiography.

  81. Ron

    Nov 21, 2014, 8:44 #61615

    Agree Jeff. Theyve the same calibre of players to put out as Arsenal have. All this 'injury ravaged' boll--cks is the song all these Clubs sing now. Its as pathetic them doing it now as has been Arsenals 8 year long playing CD. Two teams who are looking for the same 'trophy'. Likely to be an insipid draw (which both would take) unless either Coach decides to attack the others p--s poor defence in which case both will crack and could be a few goals, some of them shambolic ones. This PL is already at the stage where the really interesting games are such as Everton v Hammers and the games at the foot of the table. That 'top 4' rubbish i find tedious these days.

  82. Tony Evans

    Nov 21, 2014, 8:42 #61614

    Badarse - A nice Single Malt for me please (make it a large one) and I will sit back and reminisce to my hearts content.

  83. Badarse

    Nov 21, 2014, 7:45 #61613

    maguiresbridge, a small point but it was a brandy I suggested Tony Evans drink. I purposely lowered the status of the tipple for E/G. jjetplane, ever thought?

  84. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 20, 2014, 23:14 #61612

    @ Bard ' I have never read a decent or coherent post from those who support the status quo'. This is it. We keep asking for it as well. Why is AW the man to take us forward, what do you see in his methodologies and stated intentions that mean he'll have us challenging back at the top? There is no counter-argument given to the argument against. They don't even think one needs to be given. It doesn't even matter whether he's capable or not. Their sentimental attachment to the man is enough. So there is no engagement with the issues at hand; just obfuscation, deflection and excuse making.

  85. jeff wright

    Nov 20, 2014, 22:06 #61610

    According to some United's injury crisis supposedly hands Arsene his best chance of beating them for donkeys years. But if anyone can **** up a gilt edged chance to beat someone then that man is Wenger. He has a rap sheet 3 yards long for doing so . Tbh,I don't see that the absence of the anyway ineffectual Blind, or any of the other inured flops , will really make much difference ,LVG ( did we used to have managers with initials for names such as AVB LVG and what not years ago ?)I'm digressing though , as I was saying LVG still has a strong strike force with Matta who along with Rooney and Pursie like to play against us. I'm expecting the game to be a draw actually - probably not many goals either in the fraught affair . If I'm wrong about that though then I hope that we score them .Wenger must surely be sick of getting mugged off every time he plays United -even the 0-0 last season was a bad result - considering that United were in free-fall and we were supposedly title contenders, also the 1-0 loss away to Moyes merry men in a game that we were supposedly going to win,deja vu the pr-ematch jive for tomorrow's jolly, suggested that our title tilt was just another Wenger illusion - but in the minds of some hope springs eternal, at least we don't have to worry about the title race this term! It's time however that Wenger started to do something to live up to those optimists hopes - instead of leaving them to have to dream up excuses to try to explain away his failures every season .

  86. maguiresridge gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 22:01 #61609

    No doubt if it had been Brandy it would have been Napoleon.

  87. Bard

    Nov 20, 2014, 20:24 #61608

    Evening Baddie, have missed the recent posts as have been hard at work on the revolution front. I favour Jamies approach, tie them up and throw them off the Tower. You are right many of the same arguments get rehashed but I have never read a decent or coherent post from those who support the status quo. Most of the arguments are spurious and mostly centre on how things were 10 years ago. And or suggest that somehow the lack of success is due to bad luck and poor refs. The club you love is not todays Arsenal but got lost somewhere on the way from the old ground to the Emirates. I unlike some others on here dont have a problem with the club bleeding the supporters dry but what I hate with a a passion is the deceit. The grand deception is that we seek to compete and we are the Arsenal. We were the Arsenal in the old sense but no longer. It is patently obvious that we dont intend to compete in the real sense. Wenger is but part of the problem. If you think that sort of regime deserves my support then you need your head examining. I stupidly keep going because Im deluded enough to believe that something will change soon. The Dark Lord has spoken !!!!!!!

  88. Hiccup

    Nov 20, 2014, 20:23 #61607

    E&D. Interesting ideas but a step backwards in the number of games played and hence revenue. Saying that though, I remember when the CL had a couple of seasons of two group stages which they reduced so who knows. Talk about overkill back then. Just seems these days all sports are forever looking to change the format just for the sake of it. F1 changed the qualifying rules when Schumacher was winning every race. The changes were designed to take him off pole so the race wasn't over before it started. And look at this weekends final race, it's double points. This is all down to Ecclestone and bribery, but you can imagine the PL latching on to this idea where it's 6 points for a win on the last game, possibly making it a 4 horse race on the last day. Or how about copying Its A Knockout and letting each team play it's joker twice a season for double points. These could be transferable, so arsenal could sell its joker card to the highest bidder, probably a team in relegation trouble. I'm on a roll here. Would ban short corners, and while I'm at it, goal kicks should be taken from the side the ball went out like the good old days.

  89. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 20:02 #61606

    Baddie - Yes, probably was Eddie K now you mention it. I recall the ruck after the event and Stan was certainly in there protecting his own melee of red shirts as Bremner Hunter and a few others and that bast--d Giles were jostling for more action. It was happening just outside the area at the Clock End. Crowd going mad back at the North Bank, I used to love it and dont mind admitting it !!Leeds and Arsenal hated each other then didnt they. They hated Arsenal simply due to the fact that we were Southern and didnt roll over for the yorkshire shi£e and take it royally like the rest of the division did. Having said this for one night in 1970 at OT i was a chelsea 'fan' and was lucky enough to be taken to OT for the FAC Replay when Chelsea did them. Webb and Mc Creadie and Osgood too all dished it out to Leeds that night and they didnt like it one bit. I saw a SKY TV thing a few years back where they playe the match and had some ref in the studio who refffed it by 2009 standards or whenever it was. Leeds had 4 reds and Chelsea 3. There was some thing like 10 bookings. Brilliant. Keep yr 'technical' football. I like to see skill all wrapped up in a war and i honestly believe most do. Id venture that even the Tristrams , Sophies and Julians who fill up the Emirates these days like dormant lemmings would soon forget going for a p--s every 10 mins, early leaving, late starting and chombling on that sh--te food while theyre on the phone talking BS if they ever witnessed a few battles like we grew up on. I d like to tie Wenger to a chair, tape his mouth up as well and make him watch while it was explained to him what the Arsenal are about. Youre totally right when you say things change, the game changes etc etc but having balls,having bottle and fighting and doing what it takes to win for yr team and yr team mates doesn't change. Its this that footballs lost and such as AW are sadly champions of it being eradicated. Arsenal have lost these qualities though mate under Wenger. The Clubs got a big yellow streak as wide as the M1 running right down its proverbial core and other Clubs have known it for years. It sickens me.

  90. exiled&dangerous

    Nov 20, 2014, 19:14 #61605

    Hiccup (about 23hrs ago): The "four best third place teams" was ridiculous - how can you eliminate two teams who didn't play the same opponents as the teams that went through? Hope you are wrong about the "Grand Final" example (I love Rugby League but the team that finishes top of the table should be the champions, end of story). I'd like to see a change in the Football League play-offs, though, to reflect the standings in the final table: 5th plays at home to 6th, a draw after 90mins sees the home team through. Winner plays away at 4th, to decide who plays away at 3rd in the "final." Home advantage for the teams that finish higher in the table, with the away side having to win in 90mins to go through. Maybe 16 groups of 3 in the CL would breathe a bit of life back into that, too - top two going through into an extra knockout round, which is where it gets interesting anyway? And for my final rule change - never, ever, again, will Arsenal play an FA Cup tie away at West Ham wearing the home colours of that other lot up the road..........

  91. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 20, 2014, 18:49 #61604

    Where are your counterarguments, Badarse? Where is your counter to the criticisms of Wenger's in game management after the last two matches, for example. You don't provide a counter-argument, you don't 'counter' at all, rather you seek to deflect and muddy specific talking points with talk of worse things going on in the world and so on. If you agreed with my first post on this matter then it follows you agreed with Tony Evans, but your advice also to him was to have a glass of rum. So it seems you simply believe these views should not be aired, right or wrong. And should we feel guilty if Westlower is 'disenchanted'? He's chosen to take a stance and that stance gets pulled apart by others because it so often doesn't stand up to analysis. Want the examples again?

  92. jjetplane

    Nov 20, 2014, 18:38 #61603

    WESTIE will be back with a new spreadsheet. Ever thought you may be driving the AKBs away yourself BADDIE? Chum ....

  93. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 18:29 #61602

    No chum, you choose to misread and misrepresent. I would agree that in general the status quo may favour my view, however we are quite clearly discussing this website, ergo your criticisms of my advisory offerings. You have chosen to shift the goalposts. On this website my view, more or less shared with a mere handful, is an alternative outlook. In the absence of westlower, who may not return so disenchanted was the man, GBP who has given up on what he regarded as a lost cause, there are but a few others that post, GoonerRon and JAMIE are two of those of course. So my view often is an alternative one. My counter arguments remain constant, so why keep repeating? If you deduce that my absence is in some way a small victory for yourself then bully for you. Perhaps you might take a sit down with a small tot of rum-and that isn't advice. Just interpret as you may.

  94. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 20, 2014, 18:21 #61601

    Badarse, I understand the attraction of viewing oneself as an 'outsider' but your broad support of Wenger is actually far more representative of the status quo regarding AFC. The majority of AFC websites also support this status quo (some are slowly turning). Online Gooner itself is a broad church where what is actually the alternative view can be found, but even here the likes of yourself and Westlower have often dominated its comment section. Your side of the 'debate' have been quieter of late after matches as performances and results have been poor and you have no counter-arguments to the criticisms made. Rather you seem to seek to portray all criticism - cogent or otherwise - as a sort of feeding frenzy.

  95. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 17:59 #61600

    Exeter, I wouldn't disagree with a word you have said my friend. I just seek balance. Sometimes people get incensed by the subject matter and it seems to have a drugged effect on a few, then they get carried away. I rarely offer advice; when I do I generally label it, most of my words are just alternatives to the main thrust of what passes for debate. When a group all think the same way that is hardly debate. Much of the criticism laid at my door is borne from my opposition to what is regarded as the status quo. If spoken by one from the 'other' side it would probably not attract such poor reviews. That's fine, as I know it comes with the territory if you are saying something alternative to the group.

  96. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 20, 2014, 17:43 #61599

    Word of advice for you, Badarse, as you enjoy dispensing them. It's not ALL the butterfly effect and a changing world, you know - you may not wish to join in the 'vilification' but some things are actually Wenger's fault! His lack of in game management does cost the team. His teams lack physicality, even by today's less physical standards. These are self-evident truths, displayed for you on the pitch.

  97. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 17:34 #61598

    Tony Evans, you should never compare what has gone and what is now, beyond a healthy positive approach. I know I am telling you what you already know, but it's too easily overlooked chum, especially by the young, or those less versed. They pick it up and run with it. Old Russian proverb, 'He who dwells in the past is blind in one eye, he who never looks to the past is blind in both.' That kind of says it for me. They were heroes to me, but the world has turned on it's axis a few times. It is a different age, a different game, a different world even. It will never be as it once was. I proclaim that era, celebrate it, but never expect any of today's players, or the young to be the same as we might have been. That's too unfair. Human nature has remained constant, and will continue to do so, a manner or way has to be found to unlock that sense of desire, but how do you ask a millionaire to do that if it isn't in their genes? A conundrum my friend. My advice is to pour a nice brandy, sit and reflect that for a short spell you were back in the day, with a shared group, because we all were there. To a non-religious chap that is one of the closest ways of touching god. Together, together, together.

  98. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 17:27 #61597

    Ron 64949, excellent point and that has been the old frauds down fall over the last ten years trying to change a teams/clubs history with his own personal vision and still he keeps trying (and failing)and that's what/how HE will be remembered and go down in history for.

  99. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 17:06 #61596

    Ron, I was at a game when Eddie Kelly whacked Bremner around '70, may have been '69, is this what you are thinking of? They both got sent off, and I remember Eddie's body language as he left the pitch, which kind of said, 'This ain't over!' Is this what you are thinking of? I cannot remember Peter Simpson (Stan), ever being angry, his partner Frank had enough anger and 'edge' for both of them.

  100. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 15:36 #61595

    Baddie - Simmo belted that little sh--e Bremner back in 69 time at Highbury one day and then of course Kevin Keegan had him even better at Wembley in 73 -74 time. His mate Giles was as sneaky and even more dirty wasnt he. Their fans up there still seem to think theyre Revies Leeds. Amazing. Incredible how one man in a few years there can make a club so detested even now 40 odd years on.the Leeds fans know they're still hated for his years there.

  101. Tony Evans

    Nov 20, 2014, 15:04 #61594

    Badarse - yes Geordie wasn't a player to engage too much with the fans was he; he just let his feet do the talking. Ron - that 71 side certainly could look after themselves couldn't they, and that is the aspect I miss most from our present day team. They couldn't fight their way out of the proverbial paper bag. Wenger's determination to ignore the more physical side of the game is always going to be his Achilles heal.

  102. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 14:37 #61593

    Hi Ron, I remember a story that any team members visiting the Revie household for dinner, would have to sit quietly and pray before the nosh was served. Yes, know of the all white strip as a copy of Real Madrid-a parody if ever there was. In the game up there when they won in the ;last minute with an offside goal, some of their men were geeing uo our lads as they left the pitch, saying we's blown it. Last laugh and all that. I have Yorkshire family and I recall one saying Bremner was despised in the locality-I thought, 'Yeah, he's despised at Highbury too'.

  103. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 14:11 #61592

    SKG I was in the Parc des Princes, that fateful evening. I was in the upper tier, second row, virtually on the halfway line-just in line with Nayim. The moment it left his boot it was going in. I saw the panoramic view-that Safe Hands was off his line, and I could trace the trajectory of the flight of the ball easily. It was dropping in, or too damned close for comfort. In slow motion I saw it loop and drop, Seaman struggling, and the ball going in. I was just in stunned silence. On a better note, as my wife and I shuffled out, we had a drive back to England to consider, I went with my back to the pitch, looking, and mournfully nodding to the saddened Gooners in the next row. There was a young lad, eleven, twelve? who was crying with huge droplet tears, streaking his face. I hesitated, and stopping, I wiped the tears off his face, and told him not to cry, that we would be back. We won the Double three years later! Are you out there little boy? You would be early thirties now, if so I was the man who wiped away your tears, and I was right, we did come back. Good old Arsenal.

  104. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 14:09 #61591

    Baddie - Revie the pious. That was him wasnt it. Did you know that the Leeds all white strip was introduced by him to make Leeds think they were Real Madrid? Charlton, Giles and Hunter et all vis De Stefano, Gento Puskas and Co! Talk about arrogance. I d still like to meet Allan Clarke and deep stud his bony shins for him after id elbowed his teeth in, just as was his forte every match back then, the sneaky slimy git.

  105. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 13:57 #61590

    Hi Tony - ugh Leeds. Well recall that 1990 WC when he ran the Irish. The media thought he was the dogs boll---cks and all i could see in him was the streak of sh-t he was fouling Fingers Furnell in the 68 LCF to get them the goal.Detested him then, 22 years after the event ha!They could play but Revie honed all that cynicism. To be honest we copied it a bit by 71. Howe imbued our tough lads to do the same at times. Eddie Kelly and Mac and Roberts plus sideburns Storey would all kick a gnats face in wouldn't they if one looked askew at them and i loved them for it. I think we all did. This is what i dislike so much about what we ve become under Wenger, a team that other teams take liberties with. No truly successful team ever played 'nice'. The modern Chelsea team are very good. A nice balance of cynicism and skill. Mourinho knows what teams need and wont budge on knowing it. Wenger now lives in a cloud cuckoo land all in his own imagination thinking pretty little passes by good choir boys will win the top trophies. Our history screams at him NO NO NO yet still he persists. Lunacy.

  106. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 13:54 #61589

    Badarse : sorry bit flippant really, I just think football is like life, so many twists and turns. For example, how did we lose that 99 semi final to the Mancs, answer, the same way we won 2005 cup final, as you suggest those "butterfly effect" moments. However I still cannot get my head around "Nayim from the half way line" - I'll take that one to grave with me!

  107. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 13:49 #61588

    Tony Evans, that Leeds side were the antipathy of football, the devil's spawn. Despite Don Revie's pious approach to life and his supposed principles they were set up as a gangster outfit. Some quite remarkable footballers, but also some quite unsavoury characters. It was Leeds of course who first stood a player-Jack Charlton, or Paul Madeley-on the line obscuring and often obstructing a keeper for a corner or free kick. As a North Bank Boy we would systematically chant every player's name-each had their own ditty-and would get a wave from the lads, we would respond with a little cheer. Geordie rarely acknowledged us when we sang his name. Once in a blue moon he would and gave a cursory, quick little wave and we would go potty with a big roar. How funny and simple life seemed then. If I had to pick a man who loved it most it was our Charlie-who I also believe was the most amazing passer of the ball, perhaps the best long passer ever. But Big Raddy loved it probably more than anyone. What fantastic memories I have, so, so lucky that the flashing moment in time happened when I was there to witness it.

  108. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 13:41 #61587

    Chris - In fairness to Blockley i suppose he was unfortunate really. He came to a team that was at war with itself and at the fag end days of Mee s influence. He must have knew the bad feeling abaout Franlk Mac leaving as well. He was young and had looked good at Coventry. He was getting the Phil Jones/ Chris Smalling media treatment wasn't he i.e. the next best English thing to Franco Baresi in the period before it dawned that he (like them) just wasnt very good. He couldnt step up could he, as the team slid downwards. He was poor but i try to look back in a more rational way on him than we treated him then. R/K - Mills was a top class back in a very good Ipswich team from about 78 - 83 wasnt he and Kenny was so good that young Statham at WBA couldnt oust him from the Eng team. Statham was very good too and in a team crafted by the much maligned Ron Atkinson that in my view was one of the best sides ive ever seen i.e. the team he had from 78/9 ish to 83. Cunningham Wyle Brown and Regis and Co. I lived in the North West for a few years at the time Summerbee was part of Mercer and Allisons Man City. I was about 16 then. Wenger would cream himself over Summerbee if he had one like him now, as he was not only a really good winger but converted to become an equally good Centre Forward. Tough sod as well. City were a special team then until they signed Rodney Marsh who disrupted the team really, good as he was. Rixy could play as you say. That team mate!! They had some great players under Neill and really should have done better than just Cup runs.

  109. Tony Evans

    Nov 20, 2014, 13:34 #61586

    Ron, SKB, Chris Dee, 7 Kings, Hiccup, Radfordkennedy - Great memories fellas and I don't know how you remember so many names from the dim and distant past. Geordie was always a favourite of mine and they certainly don't make them like that anymore - mores the pity. Going from the sublime to the cynical, some of my earliest memories are of the infamous Leeds Utd team of the late 60s and early to mid 70s. Hated them with a passion - they could certainly play a bit when they wanted to, but half of the time they were far more interested in kicking opponents off the park. Certainly was a different game back then, both on and off the pitch.

  110. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 13:19 #61585

    SKG, Ron, chris dee, just think of all the lovely profit the club could make today selling false quiffs and side burns in the Armoury.

  111. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 13:01 #61583

    SKG I well remember the Sour onslaught after the goal. It culminated with Alan Mullery racing into the box and clattering into Willow who had gone down at his feet. I and those around were aware we had awoken them from their torpor. The treatment to Bob Wilson delayed the final whistle and the suspense was excruciating. I understood your response regarding the gender of Ray Kennedy, my point was a little more subtle than a plain 'what if?' moment. It was a POV of a coach's decision. Most consider these 'Sliding Doors' moments to occur like lightening, every now and again, in a blinding flash. They don't. They are occurring constantly and will do perpetually, every tiny nuance having some kind of influence. It's the butterfly effect in practise. Hang on, I've mentioned butterflies and I know Bard has a thing about pulling off their wings.

  112. radfordkennedy

    Nov 20, 2014, 12:58 #61582

    Hello Ron..SkG...some great names there from the past,Heighway Summerbee etc,funny how you can place yourself 35-40 years ago just at the mention of a footballers name,who you were with what you were drinking even how bloody cold it was.Anyway with regards to Geordie,a real legend,I can't honestly recall anyone with an engine like his and the ability to run with the ball without staring at it,which I suppose gave him that gift of picking out Ray or Raddy over and over.personally I thought Charlie was the best passer of a ball and a few years later Rixy the best crosser that I'd seen,but wee Geordie was right up there as one of the best..I wonder what he'd make now of someone on 100k a week who can't dribble or cross the ball over the first defenders head?...on the subject of full backs yes Ron,Sansom was the best for me,I also liked Mick Mills a good solid pro.

  113. chris dee

    Nov 20, 2014, 12:54 #61581

    Sideburns?We have all forgotten Jeff Blockleys monster ones,but then again why would we remember Jeff Blockley? Forgive me for mentioning his name and reminding everyone he was bought to replace Sir Francis McLintock.Good bit of business Bertie!

  114. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 12:50 #61580

    Badarse : What if Ray Kennedy had headed the ball into Jennings arms? well if you remember after we scored the "Spuds" really came to life and there were a few very scary moments before the final whistle blew. There again if Ray Kennedy had been born a girl he would n't been there to head it in the first place! Ron : Joe Baker had a real "Teddy Boy" quiff did n't he, I remember telling my barber to give me a "Tony Curtis" haircut (I was 11 and had just seen Spartacus) When I got back home my mum said I looked more like "Archie Andrews" than the sixties pin up!

  115. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 12:31 #61579

    SKG - Ha. Funny mate. The Joe Baker quiff beguiled me mate and then later the Peter Storey sideburns. Im still miffed i could never grow them like that!! I reckon only Bestie had 'burns' as good. Great times as you say.

  116. Badarse

    Nov 20, 2014, 12:26 #61578

    Afternoon Bard. Guess you never seem to quite grasp my posts' main themes, so here we go again. There is no hope of ever changing someone's mind, surely you, and possibly others who post are aware of that? The best that anyone can do is offer an explanation of a situation, a few new and perhaps unknown facts, and a slightly different way of looking at things, another slant, and by using historical experiences, both personal and vicarious. Of all who want AW out your attitude and approach comes closest to my own sentiments, but a long way short all the same. It's why I bestowed the title of 'Dark Lord' upon you. That is it. Simples. I do not want a revolution, a gigantic upheaval. My club and it's survival, stability and longevity are too important to me to suffer what I would regard as a bonfire of the vanities. Change is coming, it's happening all around us. What is there to say to a group who are self-obsessed with a witch hunt? A desire to insult, and humiliate a man at every opportunity? They would deny, and perhaps vilify my stance as -----(fill in the blanks as appropriate gentlemen), to support their line of thought and process. It doesn't wash. I don't need to be part of a coconut shy with wooden balls hurled at me, so I just carry on with life, which is quite interesting for me in general terms. I can engage but every single article/discussion gravitates back to doing the 'Arsene Wenger Hokey Cokey', IN-OUT...shake it all about. I would rather keep my brain and router well out of all this 'clatter-speak'. OK? Here's a thought, the great Geordie Armstrong, chased down and stopped the ball rolling out of play that night at WHL in 1971. I was there! He centred and big Ray scored. Two minutes to go? We were winning the title in style. What if Ray had headed into Jennings hands, a booted clearance and a long ball turned home? We would have lost the league title. How many coaches would have been of the opinion that wee Geordie should have run down the clock? Just a thought. Discuss.

  117. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 12:18 #61577

    Ron : Take your point about the move to Stratford and the effect on the perception of West Ham as a club. Growing up in Seven Kings I was the only Gooner at my school, mainly Hammers and a few "Spuds" because of the double win. Certainly quite a few Mancs due to the Munich aftermath but never any Liverpool or Chelsea, these were the days when your team represented the area you grew up in, suppose I should have been a Hammer but first visit to Highbury and the sighting of Jackie Henderson's "quiff" and I was a Gooner for life. Wonderful days that you can never replace and never explain to other generations.

  118. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 11:30 #61575

    SKG - Good stuff. Sounds like yr Dad felt for you that day. John McDowell. I recall him too. Good lad. Solid player. Ive always thought West Ham a tough opponent for Arsenal esp at the Boleyn down the years.Soft spot for them but wish Allardyve wasn't there! Hes just so not West Ham! ha. Granted theyre doing OK right now though so credit due but hes just a poor fit. Im hoping they don't lose their identity when they move as Arsenal have done. I liked the team of the early 80s there which beat us at the FAC Final. Phil Parkes and Co. Good side even when in the 2nd Div. I saw them play Coventry with a few West Ham mates in the 2 leg semi of the league Cup in 81. Two great games which they won thanks to Coventry bottling the replay. Coventry had a team of real kids many 18 and 19 year olds then and the atmosphere at Hammers was too much for them in the 2nd leg which they had won 3-2 up at Coventry in a real thriller. 30000 east enders breathing fire down their kids necks proved too much that night. How the Cups have changed. Great pity. Hammers lost to Liv in the LC final that year. Ive always said right from way back that the Boleyn on a big game day/night is the only real good atmosphere amongst London grounds. Ive an old mate over in Woodford with who i still go occasionally when im back South. Even there though its not like it was.

  119. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 11:03 #61574

    Hi Ron - I remember West Ham beating us 6 - 0 5th November 1960 - 61 I had yet to watch Arsenal live (Dad said I could go when I was 10 years old)Dad went with his West Ham mates and he was so distraught when he came back that he cancelled firework night. I had to take my Astra selection boxes round to my mate's house - and guess what he was a "Hammer" too! We had a lot trouble beating West Ham when they first came up in the late 50's - You are right about Sam's comments - West Ham played through the lines long before people ever used the word. Ron Greenwood and John Lyall put together some very good teams and gave some good East End boys a real break in the game. PS. John McDowell went to my school.

  120. Bard

    Nov 20, 2014, 9:52 #61573

    Jamie; that may be true but we didn't move to a smaller stadium so its irrelevant. Baddie has intermittent problems with his router, although Im not sure whether this refers to his computer or his brain. In his absence I suggest you read the sermon on the mount and /or the thoughts of Chairman Mao, its more or less the same thing.

  121. Ron

    Nov 20, 2014, 8:46 #61572

    SKG - Hi mate. Yes, decent player was Redknapp. Always hugged the touchline. West Ham had a good side with him in it especially for a few years in early 70s when 'pop' Robson was knocking a few in for them. I can recall Sissons in md 60s. Greenwood created some good sides there didnt he. Allardyce shows his ignorance and his own insecurity when he says the 'West Ham way 'never existed. Yes, they had a bit of a soft underbelly, (pretty much like Arsenal have had for the last 8 years)but they played some great football in their pomp. Byrne Sissons Moore Hurst Brabrook Standen in goal and then that later Robson team and Clyde Best at all. Allardyce is a disingenuous philistine and always will be the slobber gutted f----r. He ll certainly never be a Ron Greenwood or John Lyall either will he.

  122. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 20, 2014, 8:31 #61571

    Ron - Johnny Morrisey, that was one hell of a player, I also saw a lot of Johnny Sissons, very direct and Alan Sealey who was my mates cousin, scored a couple when West Ham won the Cup Winners Cup in 65. Harry Redknapp could cross a ball and Bob McNab never liked marking him because he always crossed the ball early - I think that was because "Harry" did n't want to receive any full backs "calling card" You are so right about wide players today, just look at the number of crosses that never get past the first man! My back up to nail the modern winger - George Best, I rest my case. As a final point on crossing, the ball was twice as heavy in those days than the modern plastic "Frido" ball!

  123. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 22:28 #61570

    Hiccup - true enough mate. The 'overlapping' full backs as you did see were like novelties. The 'new' full back now is the new winger. trouble is they've forgotten how to defend and havent mastered wing play either. This type of full back has had a massive effect on the quality of CB s. Theyre exposed too much. Backs like Dicko and Winterburn could cover Adams and O Learys/Bouldies arse quite adeptly when needed. Today, it never enters the full backs head to do so.Kenny Sansom mastered attacking and defensive full back play though. Very good he was.

  124. Hiccup

    Nov 19, 2014, 21:53 #61568

    Ron, interesting takes on the modern day day players. I just think full backs these days have to have more going forward. 30 odd years ago I don't think the back four got past the half way line. Their main function was to defend. I recall some hard nuts like West Hams Ray Stewart and some head case Mark Dennis at QPR? Couldn't stand them but sort of respected them as you wouldn't want to play against them. Like you say, I don't think you get that with the Gibbs or Shaw types.

  125. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 21:11 #61567

    Hiccup - as much as it was good seeing England get at it last night, but on crossing, the way them on the TV waxed on about Jack W cross for Chamberlains goal. It was a good cross but I say this now, those guys who ive mentioned used to do that 7,8, 9 times every game without fail. Goals didnt follow all the time off the crosses because the Centre Forwards had truly hard defenders to cope with in the middle. Battle royals in pen boxes then. The wingers too would get a team 5-6 goals each per season as they could all shoot hard and true themselves. Another of ours, Johnny Mac Leod was a good winger when i was a kid and scored goals. The old bas---ds on here ( older than me!!will all have their own views though im sure.

  126. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 20:58 #61566

    Hiccup. Youre very welcome too mate, Yes indeed. Heighways and Fatty Robertson were both excellent. Barnes Dad, who was well be fore my time was i think Wally Barnes and the young Barnes lived off his name i recall. Talking of Barnes, John Barnes wasnt half bad. Bit of a poser ( as was Alan Hinton) but good player on his day. He was a slightly more modern version of winger though ie winger come midfielder type wasnt he. Every one of those i mentioned mate could cross a ball and land it perfectly. The best crosser for me was Dave Wagstaffe of Wolves. John Richards and Derek Dougan used to score for fun every week via Wagstaffes crosses. Teams used to double up on him by the eraly 70s though and kick the crap out of him and he did tend to disappear a bit. As for Best, kick him and he just made you look a mug. They say today that the full backs were poor. Its utter tosh mate. We had MC nab and Rice. Wilson and Wright at Everton were great. Cohen at Fulham was top class. Dunne at Utd was solid. Mc Creadie at Chelsea. Parkin at Wolves as fast as any Winger he was. Reaney at Leeds. Top quality him. Glyn Pardoe at Manch City. Loads of them. All good players. Then i look at the likes of Gibbs and Shaw at Utd held up as 'great' players. F-----G hell! Neither would have got close to first teams and for sure would never have played for England.

  127. Hiccup

    Nov 19, 2014, 20:44 #61565

    Ron, my tuppence worth. Stevie Heighway. John Robertson, the fittest specimen of a winger ever seen. And as for crap, Peter Barnes. Just remember his mop blowing all over the place as he literally skipped along. It just used to be the winger v the full back. From what I can remember they used to take them on every time. None of this cutting back and laying it back to the halfway line. No short corners either back then. Who the f#ck invented the short corner?

  128. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 20:21 #61564

    SKG - At risk of boring our younger brethren on the site mate, there were great wingers throughout the league wasn't there. I loved wingers. Still do. What a shame that todays fans have never seen real wing play and a greater shame that Wenger talks of them yet maybe wouldnt know a winger if one hit him in the balls! Wee Geordie. Johnny Morrisey,Everton Peter Thompson.Liv Ian Callaghan.Liv Willie Morgan.Utd George Best.Utd Dave Wagstaffe. Wolves Alan Hinton,Derby Clive Clarke.W B Albion Eddie Gray. Leeds. Tony Morley Villa . Steve Kindon Burnley. Mike Summerbee and Tony Coleman Manch City. Ian Storey Moore Forest. Cliff Jones Tottenham. Charlie Cooke Chelsea. Can you think of any more? All brilliant and you knew they get you excited as they hit the bye line and tore the haplerss full back a new one before crossing for the centre Forwards. Todays game better?? Load of boll---cks matey!! ha

  129. Hiccup

    Nov 19, 2014, 19:59 #61563

    Exiled, that reminds me, the new format in France is 6 groups of 4 with the four best 3rd place teams qualifying. What a farce. The World Cup went through a phase of doing that which I thought they eradicated because of its frivolity? So after 2 weeks of football, we will be back at the 16 team stage which it used to be. The way things are going, and with the PL becoming like the Scottish Premier, I can see the FA changing the PL format to that of rugby. All the top 5 or so at the end of the season go in to a play off and can still win the title. Can you imagine that. The day arsenal fall out of the top 4, we'd have the safety net of top 5 being a trophy!

  130. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 19:51 #61562

    jw, but not surprising, one thing i left out in my response to chris dee was the question I wonder why? but glad to see you've answered it quite sufficiently.

  131. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 19:17 #61561

    Just thinking of "wee Geordie" - he played in all 42 league games in the 70 - 71 season and in the last game, after a Jennings parry, rather than let it go for a corner in the dying minutes, he tears after the ball, whips it in and the rest, as they say is history. Ron if Arsene had been his boss he would have him off at half time every game. I can hear him say " I took Armstrong off because his energy levels were in the "red zone" Bless him and bless him for the two goals he scored against "The Spuds" that season at Highbury, he ran them ragged that day. Can't wait to read the book.

  132. exiled&dangerous

    Nov 19, 2014, 18:58 #61560

    Hiccup - I actually watched an England friendly last night for the first time in Bendtner's years. Haven't watched any of the Euro qualifiers as it's just a shoo-in for the top two anyway, and even Ingerlund couldn't balls that up. I'd much rather see the Euros turned into a straight knockout competition played out every season, one-off match going to a replay, and then playing the semis and final in one city over a week early summer. It would still give the minnows a chance in a one-off game, and it would get rid of all these dead-rubber matches that most groups descend into with a third of the fixtures still to play. Next week I'll run through my theory on 16 groups of three in the Champions/Also-Rans' League instead of 8 groups of four......

  133. jeff wright

    Nov 19, 2014, 18:02 #61559

    Bard, it is depressing that Hodgson , who has been around the block and down the khazi as well , in his rather chequered career , can manage to get our players to perform better than what Wenger can. Simple organization in defence and tactics with players knowing their jobs because Woy plays them in their best positions helps . With Wenger it is all about square pegs in round holes,lots of holes and not enough pegs, too much overdone passing sideways moves ,this being all one dimensional stuff that everyone has long ago sussed out . When the moves break down our defence is left stranded like drowning sailors with no rafts to stay afloat on clutching ,like Wenger himself at straws . I had to smile the other day when Wenger came out with another explanation for the dodgy defending this season,it is all down to Kos being out. Would you believe ,with him out he can't apparently organize a defence! It doesent help if you have only two CB's and one gets injured and the other one is past it as well. As though when Kos does play we don't suffer from these 'accidents' .The reality is that Kos has starred in some of the worst ones over the years ,he usually limps off though when things get a bit iffy . Even if charitably allowing for a glimmer of truth in Wenger's claims it still begs the question why though when he knew pre-season that Kos was carrying an injury and was not fully fit and the slow BFG ,after his nightmare World Cup , following which he was retired from the German side, that Wenger didn't use the money from the Tommy Vermin sale to buy another CB. At any other club this would be regarded as being inept management,but this is Stan Kroenke land and saving the pennies by gambling on makeshift defenders ,while Wenger claims he is competing for the Prem and Champions League , is accepted as being the norm. You couldn't make it up.

  134. Hiccup

    Nov 19, 2014, 16:29 #61558

    Evening fellas. Just touching on the England game, it felt great again last night to feel bothered about winning a game again. UEFA have ballsed the qualifying up by allowing the top 5 and best 3 6th places in each group to go through, so every international game has become as boring and meaningless as the CL qualifiers. Wanting to beat the jocks in their own back yard, with both teams having a gloves off approach gave it that spark. Yes Scotland are poor, and if we played then twice a season it would lose its appeal. Didn't see too much joviality in the tunnel pre kick off either. Just can't see this Saturdays match meaning too much to either set of players, bar the English players and RVP. For the rest, I'm sure it will be just another game and another pay day. We'll see.

  135. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:51 #61557

    Ron, 64901, and standing outside it cheering and applauding the players as they drive past even after the latest embarrassment.

  136. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:40 #61556

    chris dee, spot on, a big difference indeed and did you see their bouncing, full of confidence, loving it, on a high post match interview, it was different from being rolled out by Arsenal/wenger to tell us the tired old how we have to give more, and put it behind us, and move on and learn from this crap.

  137. Rocky RIP

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:29 #61555

    @ Exeter - the parallels are worth making and it's a good point being made. The masses have always baulked at big changes in the quest for progress. However, where the comparisons fall down is that moving to Highbury didn't exclude ordinary working class people from attending. It was an ambitious move which paid off handsomely. Nobody I can recall complained of being priced out at Highbury, or of being overlooked in favour of the day trippers or 'tourists' as the article calls them, as the club sniffed out the demographic of fan based purely on who will spend most. (I have a friend who worked at The Emirates for a few years and his main role, although dressed up as otherwise, was to devise strategies aimed at making as much money from match going fans as was possible.) I've no beef with ambition, it's to be applauded, I just can't see how the complaints of the fans back then were on a par with now. The only major complaints would surely be a loss of identity based on geographical reasons. Call it greed or call it ambition, but vast numbers of fans weren't driven out or made to feel they didn't belong in the process.

  138. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:27 #61554

    Exeter Gunner, you'd nearly think it was penned by BADARSE? AMG1, and those as well

  139. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:21 #61553

    CG - So he was CG. A heart and lungs that pumped 100% Arsenal and so balanced and skilled too. Wenger would so have valued him ...............probably in right midfield or laft back, only while he decided whether wee Geordie would ever make a centre forward though.R.I.P wee Geordie. Loved you fella!

  140. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:17 #61552

    R/K, good post yourself yes the success went to head and he did think he was the messiah and could move mountains, hence his pet projects, well his ego not only came back to bite him on his arse but took a lump out of it.

  141. A Cornish Gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:06 #61551

    Just read a review of the new book 'Geordie Armstrong On The Wing'. I'm sure there will be an article on the Online Gooner at a later date. The opening line summed up how I think a lot of us 'oldies' feel about footballers today: "George ‘Geordie’ Armstrong was the antithesis of the modern day football star – and yet to those who knew him, played with him, or cheered him on from the terraces – he was exactly that… a bona fide Arsenal Superstar." Gone, but not forgotten. He was a proper little darling.

  142. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 14:02 #61550

    There's no doubt another manager worth his salt could get a lot more out of this set of players (in all departments) i'm sure we'd see a difference in weeks, maybe even bouldy, i'm certainly not advocating him for the job but on a care taker basis (and if our fears are realised we might need one) and we can see if he isn't just another wenger yes man cone kicker with no brain of his own maybe he'd surprise us all, but even if he did and got us organised and playing again and took us on a run i'd suspect he still wouldn't get the job especially if OGL had any input as it wouldn't make him look good, and that would never do.

  143. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 13:30 #61549

    R/K - Do the little darlings have to sit through the ignominy of a Coach journey to Manchester still? Perhaps you meant 'flight' to Manch Airport and then luxury coach to OT? I think they fly anywhere now outside of London mate. They deserve it though dont they, such hard lives having to cope with all this 'tiredness', esp when they've had to endure a trip to Germany etc and the squalid guest houses theyre made to stay in midweek. Terrible. Its enough to kill drey horses playing football twice a week according to some on here!

  144. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 13:01 #61548

    SKG - Great point mate. It s a known fact that the majority of fans who follow England are those of lower tier and non league Clubs already. Surely its a sign that those with no interest or involvement is the great PL rip off are more national football inclined perhaps? I agree with you though. The PL and wall to wall to Sky and Co junk coverage of it has contributed greatly to England's demise on the pitch via players attitudes to playing for their Country and the ambivalence towards them of fans off it. I think we re all guilty of falling prey to it and becoming indifferent to international football to a degree in the years where we ve all thought that PL football is the be all and end all of the game. Ending the Season ticket lunacy and the Sky subscription at the same time back in 09 has certainly been a liberating and satisfying result for me personally, not to mention the silly money that now goes on useful things!. Its nice to appreciate other teams efforts now and feel pleased for England when they do OK. Im not all saying that everybody should do the same, but match going and Sky had become a bad habit for me at one time that i never knew until i dropped both. No regrets at all.

  145. radfordkennedy

    Nov 19, 2014, 12:51 #61547

    SkG...very good points mate,I know from friends in the states that the ever increasing popularity of college sports is due to the preference of watching teams play for pride or their futures rather than watching teams whose players will go on strike for not getting an even bigger cut of TV money etc.....jjetplane forgot to mention a few weeks back Cirencester unfortunately got knocked out of the FA trophy but the club were offering supporters the chance to travel with the squad in the club coach to Merthyr for the princely sum of £6,this is something that Gazidis will pick up on surely,he won't pass up the chance of a few quid what do you reckon Old Trafford return journey for £500 someone would buy it wouldn't they?

  146. JAMIE

    Nov 19, 2014, 12:35 #61546

    Highly amusing article BADDIE better to explain some things to certain folk through stories or pictures.Imagine if we had moved from Highbury to a 20,000 stadium,the moaners would have imploded..

  147. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 12:18 #61545

    Ron - I think England, as a team could benefit from the increasing disinterest in the PL, I enjoyed the full on tackles last night and thought the ref did a good job in letting in happen. No rolling around feigning injury either, if a player did stay down it was because he took a whack and not because his coach told him to waste time. The truth is the players were playing for pride and bragging rites and they responded very well, both sides. Could national pride replace club loyalty? well if every PL club's mantra becomes like Arsenal's it may happen sooner than we think!

  148. AMG1

    Nov 19, 2014, 12:14 #61544

    EG - I read it the same as you, partly because I remember the cut and thrust of some of Alex's previous pieces. A nice read though as usual from Alex, just a shame I don't agree with his conclusion.

  149. jjetplane

    Nov 19, 2014, 12:02 #61543

    Good stuff from FRANK HICCUP & RON Went to my first in the early 60s and for me the niggling end came when the players clapped Pires on the pitch. Wenger should have gone then and I gave up my STs (had two) right there and have never regretted the decision. I began slagging off Wenger real early and even fell out with a good mate. Well he gave up his eventually and even left the country he was that ****ed off. Never been to the 'hate that name' and probably never will but as I said before watched loads of footer since then from championship to 9th tier and that is more than enough. Now I meet coaches and players before games and it is worth the effort. FA Vase this weekend and yes I am really looking forward going head to head with Horley! The 4th spot has now been given to other clubs as a holy grail to make the money. Wenger is the worst thing that ever happened to football in this country. Surely it's only weeks before he's thrown out of our game for good. ps I like watching Messi too though I don't go out of my way for it. Prefer live footer to anything. Rain wind and keep the ball down .... People would be suprised how watchable 9th tier is. As for Bournemouth - hopefully they will give Wenger a lesson if he is still there next season.

  150. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 11:56 #61542

    EG - Ha. True. The modern day As and Rs are now Tristrams and Julians and theyre in the Tollington thinking Arsenal were founded in 1996 and A and R know nothing about football.

  151. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 19, 2014, 11:45 #61541

    Think some have missed the point of the article. It's not harping on about the good old days, it's an attempt to draw a parallel between the moves from Woolwich to Highbury, and Highbury to Emirates. It's a plea for perspective and patience - basically if we all 'hang on in there' and support the current set up, it'll eventually come good, as happened at Highbury. Where the analogy falls down is Woolwich - Highbury was a major geographical shift that altered the fanbase, whilst Highbury - Emirates was a major financial shift that's (slowly) had the same effect. The modern day Archies and Reggies aren't at the Emirates, they're in the 12 Pins.

  152. chris dee

    Nov 19, 2014, 11:20 #61540

    Ron, Spot on.

  153. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 10:37 #61539

    Chris - Their preening and strutting Arsenal arrogance so tolerated and encouraged by Wenger wouldn't wash in the England camp i suspect, especially since Rooney s been made Skipper. I dont think Hodgson would put up with it at all either.Backsides, booted, home truths would rule the roost i suspect if they tried it with England.

  154. chris dee

    Nov 19, 2014, 10:09 #61538

    How depressing it was watching Wilshere and Oxlade play for England last night. Both upped their games 25% from their Arsenal performances.Oxlade doubled back all game to help out right back Clyne unlike him leaving Chambers exposed again and again against Anderlecht and Swansea.His work rate also improved as did his covering and tackling. Wilshere was tigerish,snarling and incisive, again his work rate was far more than he produces for Arsenal where he flits in and out of games and looks like a poser when in possesion of the ball. Obviously they care more about an England friendly than they do about Arsenal.

  155. radfordkennedy

    Nov 19, 2014, 10:05 #61537

    Morning all...been over to Spain visiting the in-laws and haven't been able to reply to some fantastic posts over the last week or so.Ron..Maguires..hiccup..Jeff..jjetplane..Frank..Badarse and all the usual suspects great stuff fellas...firstly I've always felt that Aw fell into the same trap as Gg,in as much as they started to believe that in fact they had the golden touch it was they who were the special ones,when we all know it was the special players we had that achieved so much.Aw really believed after having extreme success he could replace quality with inferior and get them to do the same.you can coach a player to perform a role but you can't teach him to perform at a level beyond his capabilities. And in my opinion that's where we find ourselves now,with a team that is in my opinion the worst for 30 years,with the exception of 2 or 3 players a team full of players who are unable to play to a style that exists in AW's head.As for the next manager I would like Martinez but I don't think the board have the bottle to give someone 3 years and 200 million to re-invent Arsenal,especially with no guarantee of monies coming the other way.but more importantly as Martinez in my opinion works for the best chairman in British football it might be harder than we think to prise him away

  156. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 9:55 #61536

    SKG - Agree on all of yr points mate.

  157. Bard

    Nov 19, 2014, 9:25 #61535

    JW, I had the same thought watching the game last night. Jack and the Ox looked far more assured playing for Eng than for Arsenal. On a general point I also thought Engs pressing game worked well. Arsenal cant play that sort of game because uses the same 11/12 players and its not physically possible. Roll on Utd.

  158. jeff wright

    Nov 19, 2014, 8:56 #61534

    Big Andy , a bad result last night for your lot !The move to the Emirates by the way was intended to give us more cash than our opponents have and to to provide us with an advantage over them in the trophy stakes .You make it sound as though the move was done for football fair play ones. You couldn't make it up. Anyway that Chelsea had more money excuse doesn't explain away Wenger playing kids against Terry / Drogba and co in the cup final in Cardiff or the Almunia malarkey either that went on for er,donkeys years now now does it>?

  159. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 19, 2014, 8:46 #61533

    Really enjoyed last night's game - seemed to me England were determined to prove a point. I know both sides are not in the top 10 international teams but the effort, and in particular some of the tackling and closing down made the game a "real throwback". Granted Scotland were very jaded after the weekend efforts but they played some decent stuff at times. It was the sort of football we had every week in the 60's and I really enjoyed Rooney's performance - he could yet make a good captain.

  160. Tony Evans

    Nov 19, 2014, 8:26 #61532

    Frank - You and many others mate (me included)the question is will we all fall back in love with Arsenal when he goes?

  161. Ron

    Nov 19, 2014, 7:54 #61531

    Hi Big Andy - I hear you mate. Fair point too. I know nothing at all about how sports and which ones do cap wages but it seems a method of drawing the cash rich clubs teeth as you say. If its possible in the PL its simplicity makes you wonder why its never been tried doesnt it? Maybe, theres some condition imposed contractually by the TV companies that its not done? The game is ran by and for them right down to every last detail now and im guessing they want no barriers to the best players joining the PL, not that the creme de la creme players ever do of course? Maybe this is why we ve got FFP now as some sort of half way house, avoidable fudge? I dont know mate, im just speculating of course.

  162. Big Andy

    Nov 19, 2014, 3:09 #61530

    @Ron: The Premier League should have introduced strict spending limits on wages and transfers to stop Chelsea. I can't understand why if other sports in this country can have wage caps then the PL couldn't. In a way you can see the club's point that there is no point in trying to compete when two clubs have unlimited money and neither are bothered about turning a profit or even breaking even at the end of the financial year. FOOTBALL IS NOT JUST A BUSINESS. Fair competition should have been forced on the PL. Now it's just a joke.

  163. jeff wright

    Nov 18, 2014, 23:46 #61529

    What that Scotland - England game did prove Ron was that the myth of the big noisy crowd influencing the result is nonsense. You need the players and the tactics as well,and Scotland didn't have them.

  164. jeff wright

    Nov 18, 2014, 23:32 #61528

    Hi Ron, yes no doubt about a new man could get better results in my view with the same players that Wenger has at his disposal. I used the analogy with Brazil,same players same opponents, new manager vastly better results stemming from a more pragmatic defending than what gungo Phil used that produced embarrassing Wenger like defeats, to show that this scenario of a new manager same players doing better can work . Pullis , who is no genius, did it last season at Palace when he took over there and got the same players that were heading toward relegation to put a run of results together that led them to midtable safety .Also in that run PulLis did Wenger a big favour,doing something that our man himself was unable to do,beat Everton away . Wenger's lack of tactical nous is now a major problem for him with the Prem and Europe being much stronger than they were at one time in that aspect .

  165. Ron

    Nov 18, 2014, 23:05 #61527

    True Jeff - another Coach would get more mileage from those players im sure of it too. I dont have the monopoly on the opinion that his best teams more or less ran on on ad libbing style with the players effectively being their own coach's. I credit AW for doing well to throw the players together. Since he lost GGs spine and since the 2004 team was broken up and/or lost and Wenger was thus being forced to coach, hes fallen well short. He still just selects a player on the precept of the type of game he (AW) wants to play and thinks said player will just 'do it'. He forgets hes working with far less calibre players though and it just doesnt work. PS Wilshere looked ok in that role yes, but Jeff, he was up against misfits, never beens, never will be s and Championship opponents wasnt he mate.It was kind of a refreshing game though from flimsy fanny about tip tap toe as you quite rightly say.

  166. Ron

    Nov 18, 2014, 22:48 #61526

    Hiccup - yes mate. I see your take on it. Quite good that. I suppose the only rider id put on it is that if they (man U) become like that, its gives Wenger his get out of jail free card if it lets him in, where Man U would ordinarily have been. I wdt want that, hes had his chance and his time. On Liverpool, i think they might really start to suffer anyway as they fund Anfields redevelopment plus im starting to guess that Rodgers wont be long there unless they have a surge upwards? It all seems like the great PL bonanza is headed for becoming a total 2 horse show with the rest a zillion miles behind. How ironic after all the years of back stabbing and bragging that the PL and the media have been giving it large here about La Liga being an easy jaunt for RM and Barca by comparison for so long mate. Tell you what mate, ive loved football all of my life but i can say with honesty that when the big bubble of PL football bursts, ill be the head cheerleader even if Arsenal take a tumble with it. I dont enjoy thinking like that either.What say you?

  167. jeff wright

    Nov 18, 2014, 22:25 #61525

    MG, Wenger's had near 2 decades at AFC,for the last 9 seasons we have had the beware of the bogeyman claims being put forth to justify him staying ... no one else could possibly replace him... be careful of what you wish for... we never win much anyway so what's the fuss about... and so on. I note that Brazil since changing manager from Potty Phil to the new one have not conceded a goal - previously it was like watching Arsenal with Phil in command ! I watched the Jock and England game tonight and Wilshere looks a lot better playing in a deep cover than he does running around passing the ball sideways on Wenger's tippy- tappy magic-roundabout . I am convinced that a new manager with some idea of tactics would do better with the players that Wenger has then he is doing himself .Of course he would have to sort out the deadwood and bring in some new players also apart from changing tactics to compete for the top trophies,but even so we should not be losing to sides like Cardiff when 2-0 up and struggling to beat sides like Hull and Anderleacht. Wenger's management and coaching can't be left out of the equation by citing financial reasons for its failure.If anything the financial situation overall should be allowing him an advantage against lower sides and making us more competitive against the top sides than what we are achieving. A dog eat dog match to come for us on Saturday night ,2 sides with similar owners and both chasing 3rd or 4th place for the money involved. As we have seen with us in the past and Liverpool currently ,competing for the top 4 places in the Prem becomes more important than trying to win the Champs League in the current season , when the prospect of missing out next season on being in the mix and the big bucks is possible.

  168. Hiccup

    Nov 18, 2014, 21:24 #61524

    Ron, I just want United and the scousers to follow our lead where 4th place is what it all becomes about. Speaking to scouse fans who were so ecstatic about getting in to the CL, who then proceed to put a reserve team out against Madrid. Kind of makes a mockery of it all. United's aim this season was always to make top 4 as this famous transition word takes over. I just wonder if the glazers look at arsenal and realise that with the right spin anything is possible. If failure becomes the norm, fans become zombiefied and to make themselves feel better, start talking capitulations and failure as being successful. By changing their manager every 2 years, United will forever be in a state of transition, just like arsenal, who just happen to have the same guy in charge every year. And this transition word seems good to buy time, at least for 2 years at a time. It's great seeing United's decline over the last 2 seasons, but now hoping they don't make top 4 because it will sh@g their profits shouldn't be what it's all about. But that's what it seems to be these days. Net debt and cash generation with 4th place added in for the spice?

  169. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 18, 2014, 21:20 #61523

    Any one seen the latest miss from that top top Quality striker we used to have who goes by the pet name of light bulb head? if not try to, I doubt very much any one has seen anything like it in their lives and that's no exaggeration, but don't be surprised if you can't apparently the Ivorian FA have taken steps to have it banned from been shown as it embarrasses them and want it airbrushed out of history. If successful think of the opportunities this will present for wenger and his followers whenever he embarrasses us.

  170. Ron

    Nov 18, 2014, 20:52 #61522

    Andy - what cd the PL do mate? Abramovitch bought a very sick animal in Chelsea and was just an owner with a toy until he set up its present governance structure. Hes used his own cash and to be honest whatever we see him to be he sort of has to be admired. Kroenke would just say he legitimately bought shares and followed company law in doing so, in the same way as he ll sell them quite soon in my view for a massive profit.

  171. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 18, 2014, 20:48 #61521

    jw, yes has the fan base at any club let alone Arsenal ever been so split and for so long? and even still likely to be when he does piss off, yet another legacy that will be left by the old fraud and will go down in history, and will be the first thing remembered when ever his name crops up.

  172. Ron

    Nov 18, 2014, 20:40 #61520

    Hi Hiccup - it would be a tough job to sell inertia, flounder and drift to Man U supporters i suspect, in the name of financial prudence. They've no tangible shiny glass dome to point too and offer up as hostage to fortune. Cant see their supporters buying into it so soon after the golden years either, esp while Fergie s sitting in the stands like a big blue nosed yeti. I think they ll try and preach patience to the fans though which wont go down well either. My feeling is that there will be a few more incumbents in the seat that LVG s sitting in before they dominate again. Utd might have a bit more latitude than some Club s though to try and pacify their fans, I say this on the basis that like Arsenal much of their support is cosmopolitan, travels into Manch from all over and are heavy with middle class corporate types. They will give more elbow room to their owners than would have occurred say 20 years ago i suspect, but i doubt an Arsenal fan effect would ever happen there. The Clubs got too much expectation to allow it. Can the famed 'net spend' BS ever raise its head on manc sites? Wdt think so, would you!

  173. Big Andy

    Nov 18, 2014, 20:34 #61519

    Great post, Frank, I agree with every word of it. But one thing to say in defence of the club is that it's not just Arsenal but all of top-flight football which has changed. When the Premier League sat back and did nothing while Abramovich cheated by buying trophies it was clear that football had lost its soul. The money people - both the sugar daddies and the likes of Kroenke and the Glaziers - should have been strictly regulated in order to maintain the integrity of the game. Instead we have a Wild West situation where anybody with money can get away with anything they like. That's why parasites like Kroenke can descend on our club and turn it into a cash cow with impunity.

  174. Bard

    Nov 18, 2014, 20:03 #61518

    Frank, a really killer post mate, kind of sums it all up. Alex I enjoyed your post but I dont have the same sympathies. I also enjoyed the old days. I miss the atmosphere more than the football. I dont miss the crap pitches poor technique and appalling football. I love seeing Messi and co, I love watching football from all over the world. The world hasnt gone tits up in my view its just changed football has changed with it. Harping on about the old days is fun but it stops an appreciation of the present. I wont repeat the arguments, they have all been made.

  175. Hiccup

    Nov 18, 2014, 19:45 #61517

    Yes Frank, that is a list of tossers, and it just scratches the surface. Just seen on the news how United's profits will be down if they fail to finish top 4. Not that they must finish top 4 to try and win the CL, but top 4 for profits. Hope United fans take that message on board as dignified as the arsenal supporters. Maybe the delinquent section of their fan base will start spouting those famous words Portsmouth and Leeds to excuse their decline as being acceptable too? Those two words have been music to wenger's and stan's ears. Bet they love it when our own fans do their talking for them too. Anyway, Saturday's fixture used to be a six pointer for silverware. It's now a six pointer for profit! Absolutely riveting!

  176. jeff wright

    Nov 18, 2014, 19:27 #61516

    I can't ever recall such a splitting of the support base over any other manager , or such disenchantment with the way the club is being run over the period of time that this has been going on with the current Kroenke regime . It is more than likely though that were there an improvement in the results against top teams and a league title won , or dare I say it , a European Cup, that supporters would change their views - and even some new ones join the party. After all the move to the new stadium, with the increased cost of it to supporters, was supposedly to make these happy events happen. So supporters can hardly be blamed for complaining that, despite Wenger's claims, there is no sign of us competing for the Prem title or in Europe with Wenger's holy grail either in sight. Just more of the old competing for 4th place again , this was glossed over by the FAC win last season that was greeted by near hysteria by some after 9 trophyless seasons as though it were justification for past those failures ,rather than a job saver for Wenger and a relief from the no trophies won for 9 years jibes. This after near 10 years since the move from Highbury. Surely those asking for a change of manager are entitled to do so ,especially after this season's inept management by the current incumbent.

  177. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 18, 2014, 18:32 #61515

    Nice article especially with remembrance day still in our memory. Nothing has come of this move that's for sure, if fans were foolish enough to listen to others we'd go under now if we spent money, we'll never be the Arsenal again, not the proper Arsenal anyway (especially the champions/champion kind) while this old has been manager runs the factory even with his fancy dan players.

  178. Ron

    Nov 18, 2014, 17:28 #61514

    Frank - second that mate. I never renewed after that Season and to be honest there were 2 or 3 of us who had been saying the fun had been gone from going to matches for a couple of years before that. I do several away games now when a ticket comes my way and co incides with a few of the old crew who are going and we do have a good day still. Its got less to do with the football though, more about just having a few beers with old buddies, unless its my turn to drive of course, the games are just incidental. Ive been to the Emirates (dont you just detest the name of the place!!) twice since. The 7-3 v the Toon and the 1- 0 NLD win two seasons or so back.Dropping out of it does give a new perspective on football and AFC though. A more realistic one where we can look at the warts of the game and the Club and be happy to speak of them as we find. There are still a few semblances of what football used to be about at away venues and we see the same old Gooner faces, a good many who dont and wont step foot in the Emirates either. It speaks volumes really doesn't it.Im certain quite a lot of those who go to Arsenal now travel in from distance in the provinces (as i used to do) without whom there would be many empty seats. I have to say i cant now fully understand why they do it or why i did it though it did used to enable me to catch up with my Sisters and an old mate of mine with who id stay overnight. I cdt justify what they must be paying in tickets and travel etc now. The football is weak and mainly tepid, the ground has no atmosphere to speak of and lacks 'football feeling' badly. Each to their own though.

  179. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Nov 18, 2014, 16:10 #61513

    Good article. Back when Wimbledon moved out of Wimbledon to MK, I totally understood why and couldn't get all the bad feeling about it. Had they stayed in South London they'd probably be where AFC Wimbledon are now. Look at the USA, gridiron teams move around the country very often. I always laugh when I see the Cleveland Browns, who aren't even the original Cleveland Browns they are the Indianpolis Colts, who before that left Baltimore in 1983. And so on and so forth.

  180. Rocky RIP

    Nov 18, 2014, 10:14 #61511

    An original and thought-provoking article Alex. I take your general point that in many ways things are still the same as ever. Fans all grumble about the same things; their plight; how the club's quest for progress comes in the shape of a heightened sense of a football club being run first and foremost as a business at the expense of the poor, unappreciated fans. Plus ca change? However, does it infer anyone who doesn't move with the times and willingly accept the way things are heading is some kind of Luddite? I'm all for genuine progress and enlightenment and can see how many things have changed for the better in football, but I really don't like the direction modern football is heading. In fact it riles me. The game has been hijacked in many ways. Anyone who agrees with me shouldn't be marked out as a flat cap wearing stick in the mud. The greed in the game has gone too far; the game will become swallowed up its own behind if it isn't careful; many of the fans that care most have been marginalised and replaced by unknowledgeable passionless hot dog chompers flashing their ipads; children can't go to games in their numbers any longer so won't have that connection and loyalty in future; the atmosphere is sterile; etc, etc. I'm also not sure people always complained of the JCL 'tourist' types. Day trippers is probably the best term for them. They certainly weren't around when I first started going, or for many years after. Anyway, a refreshing article away from the usual tiresome AKB vs WOB vitriol.

  181. Watts

    Nov 18, 2014, 9:08 #61510

    Sanogoal's two for France puts him at home in the Under 21s which is a bit different to playing the big boys.