Danny Boy

Online Ed – Away win at West Brom



Danny Boy


Arsenal approached the visit to the Hawthorns in more confident mood after their midweek victory over Dortmund. In a game they dominated, the return of Laurent Koscielny helped the side’s solidity, although the Frenchman had the linesman to thank when he played Berahino onside early in the second half, only to be saved by the flag. With the game at 0-0, and the West Brom striker with only Damien Martinez to beat, it was a turning point. Martinez himself looked confident and capable, although there will be tougher tests ahead for the third choice keeper, starting with Southampton on Wednesday.

Until Welbeck’s headed winner, a fine example of what he can bring to the team in front of goal, and also a demonstration that he can match Giroud’d contribution in the air, it looked a familiar story. Lots of nice build-up play but poor finishing. Chances were created, then spurned.

However, persistence paid off and at this stage two things matter to Arsenal. Results and clean sheets. The team have, in spite of their frequent profligacy, been scoring enough goals to win their matches. The problem has been at the other end. With Koscielny returning, Kieran Gibbs started the match on the bench with Nacho Monreal moved to left back. The latter’s removal through injury suggests that Gibbs will start on Wednesday, although one cannot rule out that an element of rotation might have been used here anyway, a rare luxury for the manager when it comes to defensive positions.

I was interested to see whether the return of Olivier Giroud to the starting line-up would mean a 4-4-2 formation against West Brom, given Wenger has toyed with such a line-up at times in recent weeks. However, Giroud played central with Welbeck and Alexis flanking him, although there was a lot of movement generally between the front three. Cazorla’s finishing did not improve by playing in the hole (although it was a fine assist for the goal), and Aaron Ramsey continued in the struggle to find form. Mathieu Flamini did not try to get too involved in the forward play and looked an effective shield against this quality of opposition.

So Arsenal continue to take points from the relegation candidates, the type of games they have been winning in the Premier League so far this season. Nothing wrong with that, but the visit of Southampton in three days time is a tougher test, interestingly enough a Grade C match. What’s this? Value for money? Possibly this fixture was nominated for the reasonable price category because it was a December midweek game. Not normally as easy sell.

As for West Brom, they have often given Arsenal a tough test in the West Midlands, but usually come up short. Berahino’s late header that hit the bar symbolized that. It’s a game the Gunners deserved to win, but almost gave away the two points. Some of the pro-Wenger websites made a lot of the bad refereeing decisions that went against Arsenal against Manchester United (even if Wilshere was fortunate not to have been sent off in the first half long before he was injured). Perhaps they might reflect on the offside that was given in their favour yesterday. Swings and roundabouts.

It’s a win that will not have changed too many minds about what is best for the future direction of the club, and indeed, a thanks Arsene, but time to move on banner was visible after the game. The feeling these days is that the club is just a couple of poor results away from the next wave of baying for the manager’s head. It’s far from a healthy state of affairs, although at the conclusion of the game, Arsenal moved into fourth place in the table. For a large number of supporters, that is not good enough, they want more. Are they being unrealistic?

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

The current issue of The Gooner can be bought online here. A new issue with the 2015 calendar will be out for the Southampton home game on Wednesday evening.

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162
comments

  1. Kube

    Dec 02, 2014, 23:18 #62495

    Good write up as always kevin. It was good to finally see 'that long-awaited banner' from the Away supporters. @Exeter Gunner, Unchives & a few others - absolutely spot on with your logical arguments!!

  2. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2014, 22:12 #62490

    Thanks E/G, peace most definitely.

  3. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2014, 16:12 #62459

    That's not all I was saying, Badarse, but if you wanted a message to take away... anyway I agree, this has gone on long enough and has got a bit absurd. Peace. Good first comments by you under the new article.

  4. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 02, 2014, 14:03 #62444

    Badarse, more liked choked on my coffee i'm still getting my breath back, that's all we need another wenger lackey, yes man schooled in the ways of arsene for a couple of years then let loose.

  5. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2014, 13:53 #62441

    No, that's not just what you were saying E/G. If I give you the benefit of the doubt and accept it on face value then my response is thus. I do not 'judge' anymore than others. I do give opinions, sometimes strong ones, often not. I do know how life works surprisingly enough, you hit me, I hit you back. It is not my way and always prefer a symbiotic existence, wherever possible, but will not concede an inch of ground if it isn't warranted. I get a lot of stick but it's part of the expectations. No stick if the party line is towed, much if you pull against. I don't welcome it but do accept it if it is part of the cut and thrust, as these exchanges show. I shrink from unnecessary criticism and want to confront, on both my own and other people's behalf, that's all. Now this is a little tiresome, but I do hope we have some common ground to stand on after this.

  6. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 02, 2014, 13:47 #62440

    Oh, the crying shame of it all! The martyred St Baloney, slain by unbelievers using lengths of frayed ethernet cables.

  7. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2014, 11:50 #62430

    What I'm saying is very simple, Badarse - if you are going to judge, expect to be judged back. And do not give us your squeals of 'vindictive' and faux claims of attempts to 'intimidate' when it happens.

  8. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2014, 11:31 #62428

    Look E/G, I thought my 'naive' post was self-evident. It wasn't cloaked in mystery, it wasn't intended to sneak under the radar, it was a simple observational comment. I explained the thinking behind it to the poster concerned, so where do you come in? What are you saying, I shouldn't have posted it? Take all the misunderstood, and misrepresented intrigue out of your posts and what are you left with? Nothing! It's why I believe you have a personal flaw which just keeps you going around and around, chasing your own tail. Innocent and injured party? Once more these are your words from your interpretations. I am not the least bit interested in even an avalanche of accusations or veiled insults. I believe what I perceive to be the truth and will not be shaken or intimidated, so please step down from that high-souled approach. I have given a succinct view, I do not want revolution, and am awaiting the evolutionary outcome. I would not raise a banner, or demonstrate in this instance, though have done both in many other walks of life on a few occasions. What more do you want? I think if you desire an answer so badly put it out there to the general Online posting public, and if you get no takers then deduce that they are all cowardly incompetents, without an argument, award yourself a brownie point and move on. Your life will be the richer for it.

  9. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2014, 11:17 #62427

    @Badarse, what's to discuss is a request from myself and others that someone puts forward a coherent argument why Wenger is the man to take us forward. That's what's behind all this. I requested it of you, you haven't take it up. Like I said, that's your prerogative. There was also the following exchange: "'Ron doesn't sound like a real fan'. Good grief!!! I really think I've heard it all now. Badarse: Gaz, you are very naïve..." It's pretty clear what you were saying there, but when you're picked up on it, you call this 'vindictive' and misrepresentative', without explaining what you really meant. This is what I mean by expect to get it back, when you do things like that. Instead you act the innocent injured party. You make judgments on others based on their arguments regarding Wenger, but when asked to outline a counter-argument of your own, suddenly the debate is 'boring' and 'futile'.

  10. jjetplane

    Dec 02, 2014, 11:05 #62424

    This is just a footie forum BADDIE nothing to absorb or reread especially when the poster gets on his teacher high horse. Still, there is entertainment in your posts though perhaps not the kind you seem to crave. He's going and that's that. Worst thing that could happen would be for Henry to come back. Neither the temperament nor the unified steel. Simeone would be perfect as super RON (he's worth absorbing though it is hard to duck a RON post) says and Klingon might be a bit of fun too. Spuds would love it. Klopp is still there and WeSTIE is right when he says Klopp could come good from his present bizzare experience. Now where were we? Who's on the couch.

  11. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2014, 10:42 #62422

    More misrepresentations E/G, or are they purposely obtuse ones to conceal the awkward situation you find yourself in? The bestowing of titles is a fun thing, and as a poster Bard warrants it, in my opinion. It doesn't have to be your opinion, it doesn't have to be an either/or thing neither, just my view and a humorous one. Try to stay with me on this and absorb, please. Never have I, never would I suggest that not supporting AW denotes a non-fan, Bard is willing him to go and his view is respected by myself, so try really hard to get that part correct, please. I don't have an argument? It is not an argument, little remarks give you away. Reread my post as I explained my position, what is there to discuss? You have one view, I another, take the vindictiveness out of the mix and you would see there is not even a debate about a tiresome topic of AW going or staying. Don't expect to get any back? Are you blind? Invariably a minority view often 'gets back'. I am used to it. Throwing a strop,disappearing and wallowing in the corner for a while? Interesting. I get tired with the mind-numbing recurrence and insistence of some, that's all, and it's good therapy to leave much which is supposedly intelligent Arsenal-related debate, behind. Now please try to ignore my politics, my tenets, my humour if you like, and focus on what I am saying. If you have a feeling for AFC you must recognise I too have. You want AW to go now, I don't. You have my reasons, I do not want revolution in this instance, where is your problem? Beyond a personal one I am flabbergasted as to what it is that floats your boat, perhaps I wronged you in a former life, chance would be a fine thing.

  12. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2014, 10:07 #62416

    Nothing misrepresentative about it, Badarse - that's how we see you, and your further bestowing of titles in your latest offering gives further credence. I'm not misrepresenting my own views - like I said, you insinuate those that don't support Arsene don't support Arsenal. You really don't expect to get any back? And "It doesn't matter why" sums up your modus operandi. Like I said, you don't have an argument (therefore it's conveniently 'needless' and 'futile' to not debate), but like I also said that's your prerogative to not make one.

  13. Ron

    Dec 02, 2014, 10:02 #62415

    Bard - Ancellotti for me mate but as you say, RM to Arsenal? Not likely is it really and thats not to diss us, its just that Real M are Real M. Id approach Abramovitch and say, 'look Roman lad, we both know yr Club's not as big as ours and we both know you dont really get on, how much do you want for JM?'Send him over for a chat once youve decided will you?. On Martinez. i d be fearful of him now. Hes possibly Wenger mark 2. Hes gone all attack attack attack with Everton and the defence there seems like its lost its Moyesesque solidity now, though they are getting old admittedly. . Shipping goals for fun . I think we ve had enough of that at AFC. Can you imagine him and Wenger over coffee in the Diamond Club discussing the birth of Barca lite 2? Im not a Klopp man. Hes done OK but at the level hes at in the Ger league, AFC could be a big bridge to cross for him. Hes a little too populist for me. Is the substance there? Im not sure. To be honest, i suspect now in view of the words emerging from New York, that Arsenal might be still thinking cheap and cheerful, get a bit of fan favour etc and madly contemplating bringing Henry in as a Coach under Wenger for a couple of years, then promote from within? I deeply hope this hunch isnt true. He couldnt even Captain a team properly, never mind Coach one. Another self obsessed, fake uber Arsenal fan Frenchman with no coaching credibility is all that we need right now but i suspect its an idea Wenger and this Board will consider seriously. Simione is an idea. Bilic, Klinnsman and Loow are 3 others. All no nonsense types and Simeione has a nice touch of madness about him. Arsenal need some contentious drama about the place again. Its been far too long draped in cobwebs hasnt it.

  14. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2014, 9:12 #62410

    Morning Bard, well said. Those three or four men could make a real fist of it. Not sure what is likely to happen in Jan-a notorious time to buy really good men when most want to stay safely entrenched and play a suck it and see strategy. I really cannot throw my hat into the ring for a new man as it is so nebulous. Who appoints? What policy changes given? Availability? Interest being the key element as I see it. Who would want the poisoned chalice? When you are so wealthy, as you, westlower and myself are, everything takes on a different hue. These big names are multi-millionaires who would only perhaps accept as a personal challenge to themselves. All a little indecisive on my part, but I really don't know. Possibly in seven or eight years time, after AW's second or third contract extension the waters would be less muddied and we would have a clearer indication-at least those still around would. I visualise maguiresbridge choking on his Sugar Puffs at that one.

  15. Bard

    Dec 02, 2014, 8:55 #62407

    Baddie: acrimony, criticism it's all water off a ducks back as far as I am concerned. I never get upset about stuff on here, I'm all for opinions whatever they are. Westie nothing will be going on in the boardroom bar counting the pennies. None of them are football men. Wenger will decide on his successor. I'm agree I would like Ancellotti, but doubt he would come to a second tier club. Martinez might be worth a punt. Agree about Koeman. Still think Klopp is in the mix despite the blip. We need a coach with a more astute tactical understanding of the game. We are only 3/4 players short of making a decent challenge.

  16. Westlower

    Dec 02, 2014, 8:38 #62406

    Anyone out there privy to what's going on in the boardroom re appointing the next AFC manager? Is there a wish list of preferred candidates? Will Wenger oversee the early days of the new guy? Would Guardiola or Ancelotti ever consider leaving Bayern Munich & Real Madrid to play 2nd fiddle to Maureen, Pellegrini & LVG? I wouldn't trust any of the current managers in the EPL to do a better job than Wenger. Koeman is a possibility but still needs to prove his credentials over a full season. Any other suggestions?

  17. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2014, 8:36 #62405

    E/G that was nice dialogue-conveniently misrepresented and a malicious one-that you had with Ron. People could read and decide for themselves, but none knew it was conducted at my Virtual Knitting Circle evening. You with your poisoned darts doubling up as needles, Ron with his dozen meat pies on his lap, mmm, I noted your poison blowpipe with the words 'Blow don't suck' inscribed, but why this attitude I continually ask myself? Clear you are after a piece of me, and I think little of you, but 'why' is still a pertinent question. I have given my views repeatedly, as it seems goldfish memories operate often on this site, but do you seriously think that I have to answer your repetitive and inane demands? I do, and next week another new kid on the bloke steams in and asks again. Then I have to reiterate? Where have you been for the last year or so, in having not gleaned my position? For the last time I do not want a fracture or meltdown at my club that AW's departure would bring, should it be under extreme circumstances. That is simple and succinct. It doesn't matter why. It is needless to discuss in verbal tennis style, neither would change their views, so let it lie. Remember 'when two tribes go to war'? How many points would you score? I find the topic boringly futile, and choose whether to debate on anything, and within the general rules, in any way.My view of what constitutes a fan is valid, if to no one else on the planet it is to me. Here is some info for you. Ankle ligament tears and ruptures can be far more sinister an injury than a leg break. As with an Arsenal player's such injury, (Giroud's), it attracted derision from a so-called fan. That is disgraceful. Young JW suffered a recent injury and was called a 'turd'-that is worse than the previous example. It is a disgrace. I would never conceive of acting in such a fashion for even a Sour player, it's just very low. Then a sycophantic poster arrives and congratulates the first on his descriptive skills. Fans? You are having a laugh, mister. This injury is a career-threatening injury and as I mentioned to a buddy at the time I shall write him off for the season, time, and severity will decide on the return date. Oh and Bard, I think you are attracting some acrimony, as my elevation of yourself to the status of The Dark Lord rankles in some quarters. The title is earned though, despite having to bawl you out for picking your nose during the Virtual Cookery Class, you conduct yourself admirably, with only a slip here and there...and the nose-picking left no evidence in the mince pies anyway. JAMIE, hi chum. I dropped the upper case title as it wounded some sensitive souls on here, and gave them ammunition to offer their Freudian reasons for it; I may revert though if I continually get this nonsense thrown at me. Good old Arsenal.

  18. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 02, 2014, 8:12 #62404

    Yes – finally did it! Can now look visibly concerned while secretly thinking of how I’m going to decorate my chateau. It was a bit of a struggle though to chew gum at the same time...

  19. Westlower

    Dec 02, 2014, 6:22 #62403

    Contrary to popular belief I do believe life at AFC goes on after Wenger leaves, it's the form of that life that disturbs me. If the 'right' man isn't appointed I'm not sure how the current set of disaffected Gooners will handle it? We could all be praying for 4th spot again if we drift into mid-table mediocrity. Thierry Henry is the subject of much speculation & betting on being the next AFC manager. Should it be true then surely it can't happen until Wenger's contract is up in two and a half years as TH needs to gain managerial experience somewhere, preferably at another club. GG had a successful time at Millwall before moving back to AFC. Historically Arsenal have had a preference for appointing old boys or people already at the club, Shaw, Allison, Whittaker, Crayston, Swindin, Neill, Mee, Howe, GG, Houston. Billy Wright is proof that only being a top class footballer isn't sufficient for the managers role at AFC. Our best ever captains Adams & McLintock struggled in their respective managerial roles. Maybe TH will follow the Giggs path and have a 2 year spell as assistant to Wenger before taking over the reins? Oddly, arguably the best two managers in Arsenal's history, Chapman & Wenger had no prior Arsenal connections at all. My preference would be for Carlo Ancelotti. It needs to be someone of his stature to succeed Wenger. A lesser light simply wouldn't do. One wonders how Dortmunds struggles are affecting Klopp's confidence? Maybe he'll come out of it as a better manager, only time will tell. Not convinced Simeone would be seen to best effect in England? Perhaps the banner wavers can conjure up a 'miracle' manager for us all?

  20. DW Thomas

    Dec 02, 2014, 1:52 #62402

    Think it comes down to one thing. All this debate. Do you think, with all at its disposal, that Arsenal FC can bigger and better than it has been or is currently? If yes, can that happen under our current manager? Many of us thinker can be better, just not under Wenger. I admit, I could be wrong. Maybe he'll win the league, or CL, or both this year. Yet, 10 years of failure, going on 11, never having won the CL, despite his praise of himself for qualifying for 15 years now, leads me to credibly believe he will not take this club further. His comments recently only show his arrogance and further attempts to pull the wool over our eyes. Profits and ticket sales is the top priority. And I can't stomach that a second anymore. Those that can I find a bit self delusional. When we have a board and manager that makes winning its chief ambition, I and many others will have little to complain about.

  21. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 23:37 #62401

    Roy, yes it was as polite as you can get (to polite) and no it didn't say wenger out but it meant the same.

  22. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 23:09 #62400

    JAMIE, the day you can work out the difference between the manager and the club, understanding will fall upon you. I fear that day is not soon though.

  23. Roy

    Dec 01, 2014, 22:28 #62399

    The banner didn't say "Wenger out" though, did it ? Theres a subtle difference. Personally, I thought that as banners go which ask for a change of Manager, it was probably about as polite as it gets. Seriously though, it would appear that we can never be serious title contenders again under this man. He is still a good manager, but no longer an exceptional one. Change is coming and it IS needed. But do we trust those responsible to get it right when that day comes? I'm not so sure. Now that IS scary......

  24. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 22:23 #62398

    JJ - Ha. You're not remotely interested in Amy for her views are you? Im onto you boy!Still not bad, but she was a tasty looking lady at one time im betting. EG - Yes mate. '6th Form'(though a long time back for me i hasten to add) about sums it up doesn't it. Imaginary intelligence. The real intellects that you, me or whoever else do/have/may have worked with/known just knock you out in one with the nigh unarguable precision of their points. Never yet seen a b'arse utterance yet get off the starting block. Have some great little exchanges with Westie though. Hes a tenacious devil. Do like his postings and occasionally we have these lightening shafts of agreement. Its fun. Jamie s a funny AK man as well.Hes a good torment on his better days is Jamie. .

  25. JAMIE

    Dec 01, 2014, 22:21 #62397

    I can never understand all the animosity aimed at those who are happy to support the club,it's like unless you turn your back on the club as we do the persecution is just gonna continue.

  26. jjetplane

    Dec 01, 2014, 21:59 #62396

    Amy Knows Best.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 21:40 #62395

    Hiccup, yes indeed, there's a special needlework club running tonight and tomorrow (now I wonder who could have set that up)in AKB central to run up an in arsene we still trust banner for Wednesday night although reports are that there might not be enough there to have it finished in time, whether it's a problem with the spelling or treading the needle it's not known, but one things for sure if they do make it in time wengers goons will definitely allow it to be displayed unlike others.

  28. Hiccup

    Dec 01, 2014, 20:57 #62394

    Great to see the AKB's all flustered. That banner came out of the blue, after a win which no one saw coming. Supporters who are as complacent as wenger with this mediocrity now up in arms. They'll be working round the clock now at Central Command making offensive pro wenger banners for Wednesday. Choir practice tomorrow to make sure their rendition of 'one arsene wenger' is loud and clear for all to hear. All so predictable.

  29. Paddy

    Dec 01, 2014, 20:33 #62393

    @jjetplane - Amy started her writing career with The Gooner so I think her Arsenal credentials are not in question. Yes, she may not be in the Wenger Out camp, but she did talk very eloquently at a recent AST meeting about how important and difficult it is for fans to make their voices heard in the modern game, so in some ways I think she would have approved of the banner even if not the sentiment of it.

  30. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 20:21 #62392

    jj, 65749, 18 years or Amy?

  31. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 20:18 #62391

    @Ron, I think your 'haze' is his 'intellectualism'. He confuses a lack of clarity and concision with being clever. It's all a bit sixth form. I'd rather play the ball than the man but if Badarse and his associates aren't going make a coherent case for Wenger going forward for us to engage with, and instead are going to variously insinuate, overtly state or blurt (according to their respective styles) that those who don't support Arsene don't support Arsenal, then they're going to be pulled up on it. And fire will be fought with fire and they'll be told that over the course of Wenger's long reign, their support for Arsenal has been slowly, insidiously hollowed out and replaced by a support for Arsene. And they haven't even noticed it happening. Who knows if this will result in another strop but basically - if you can't take it, don't dish it out!

  32. jjetplane

    Dec 01, 2014, 19:58 #62390

    Look like perfectly decent blokes to me and Swindon blokie sounds alot like PETE/JAMIE with all this taking banners off people, tweaking their noses or kicking them up the arse after dumping a slop bucket on their heads. All this of course eventually ending up on youtube (if only) and all these posters incurring life long bans for their dutiful sins. Whatever would their masters think? (Westie & Baddie). What I would like to see is Wenger climbing into the crowd with his puffer well puffed up and saying in his best French 'vous voulez un peu?' and then like his compatriot Eric he is exiled from the game and ends up in the movie business. Pink Panther 18 anyone?

  33. JAMIE

    Dec 01, 2014, 19:28 #62389

    Having just read his last post,it is Badarse.Spot on swindongooner,the banner boys look like oily tick teenagers to me.

  34. Unchives

    Dec 01, 2014, 19:13 #62388

    @ swindon gooner, what would give you the right to stop somebody from exercising their own opinion, put up your own banner if you want. Further, how would you have pulled the banner down, using violence? Your views are as far out as Swindon is to the Emirates.

  35. swindon gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 19:04 #62387

    Id thought id seen most things in football being an arsenal fan for forty years, But to have fans parading banners with wenger out, I didnt realise that we were on the same wavelength as those geordies who have been after pardews head for weeks, I am disgusted to see those banners and had I been at the game on Saturday id have taken it down, what have arsenal fans become, remember rioch and thinking making the eufa cup was a successful season. Think back to those glory days eh.

  36. Hiccup

    Dec 01, 2014, 18:56 #62386

    Welcome back Baddie. I see the Chief Whip Westie is rallying the AKB's and also submitting yet more false expenses claims. Assuming the post with our league positions is correct, it seemed rather ruthless for our board to sack wenger's predecessor after only one season after taking us from 12th to 5th. That would appear to be on the upside of the yo-yo. No tears were shed for Rioch after one mediocre season. So why the fuss and leniency for a manager with several seasons of mediocrity?

  37. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 18:56 #62385

    EG - The point re Monsier Badarse wasnt lost on me either and yr right to pick him up on it. Rightly or wrongly, Mr Baddie has long had a problem with me and my admittedly, some times near to the knuckle views and perceptions on AW and our Club. There are one one of our number who tend to think as i do and some times say as much. It seems to grate with him though and historically hes accused me of 1. Playing to the crowd (whatever that means) 2. to those who do see things as i do, hes described as being 'followers'or some other mindless description that tends to dilute the fact that all posters have their own minds. In short. His way of coping with me has been for quite a while to poo poo and pass off my own views as being artificial, intolerant of his and closed minded to reasonable thinking. His latest little barb was quite funny though, hence im only commenting now as a result of your perceptive picking up of the point. His problem seems to be that his own brand of waffle has never attracted any great degree of unison and there seems to be some sort of jealousy within him for some odd reason that s hard to pin down. Yr right though, his reply to Gaz is as you say it is and i rather suspect Gaz has taken it as such, though is too kind to say as so. Yr being kind too, as i d describe his reply as more utter boll--ks frankly, but 'sophistry'is more diplomatic and in keeping with the rules admittedly. Badarse is very good at creating a cloud of haze around all of his comments and attacking others whose views he sees as not sufficiently in keeping with his own by accusing them of not playing fair or lacking his own superior notion of whats objective or isnt. Badarse likes to condemn posters such as i as lacking understanding. Its his way. Essentially its fake and is used to mask his own inability to express a cogent and clear opinion on much at all or at best his fear of expressing an opinion that many might strongly disagree with, hence you see the oft repeated unintelligible waffle that he purveys. Many have said as much to him. He generally takes a hump and strops off for a few days, gives us all a break from his wind, then sneaks back, barely noticed via the back door or through a roof light, while we re all asleep or having a WOB meal! Takes all sorts mate. His error here was getting into Gaz, who just happens to be one of those posters (followers or disciples - are you there Gaz, at my command ?!!) who quite often speaks and sees things as i do. Baddie doesn't hack it too well, thats all.

  38. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 18:55 #62384

    My God lower expectations? can they go any lower? you couldn't make it up.

  39. JAMIE

    Dec 01, 2014, 18:51 #62383

    That's not BADARSE as he always uses capitals and the real BADARSE would never be that brief.

  40. andy1886

    Dec 01, 2014, 17:58 #62382

    Lies, damn lies and statistics eh? Here's another for Westie, no manager in the entire history of Arsenal Football Club had even managed the club for a ten year period in which they did not win the league - until Wenger 'achieved' it. All the others either quit, retired, died (sadly) or were sacked before they went that long without a title.

  41. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 17:57 #62381

    Dartford Gooner, good point I remember it well everyone asking arsene who? nobody more than ourselves never a better headline, my mates laughing and slagging who was this ejjit with the jam jar glasses, as they say the rest is history (for the first half of his tenure anyway and it certainly helped inheriting the best defence in Europe) why can it not happen again? wenger is going to have to go sometime and it's going to be a hell of a lot sooner than later whether some like it or not so why not at the end of this season or the next? As Ron quite rightly points out the days of managers getting attached to clubs have gone (and it's the same with fans to the managers)it's a results business now, football's moved on (as some on here like to keep pointing out) and it's also an end to the ten, eleven, eighteen, twenty five year reigns for managers successful or not. Yes change is coming sooner rather than later we weren't afraid of it the last time so why be now.

  42. jjetplane

    Dec 01, 2014, 17:46 #62380

    RON that is the one time Lawro made me laugh - generally he is a tad immature and you can hear co-presenters cushioning the politically incorrect gaffes he makes when he is sitting comfortably. At least he is not Savage who says anything at anytime because he is indulged in a quite pathetic manner by the beeb. Wenger in his dealings with the media is an abstraction compared to other managers. With you on Mourinho and am lost as to just what makes him so obnoxious to many on here. he is doing a good job for his club and he is importantly making the right signings. Wenger in comparison is dreamy indulgent and when someone wakes him out of his reverie he snaps like a little Parisian poddle. Most other manners except the flak and just get on with it. Look at Pardew. No one could make that up. Difference between him and Wenger is he really can fight.

  43. Bard

    Dec 01, 2014, 17:36 #62379

    Chris Dee: excellent post. I couldn't agree more. All this yesteryear stuff is irrelevant to our present predicament. Wengers responses suggest to me that he doesn't get it. He seems to believe that we are punching above our weight and that any other view is sacrilege. I have said many times before that he gets an easy ride from the media. His strange brand of waffle disguised as analysis is only palatable because he delivers with a French accent.

  44. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 17:12 #62378

    @Gaz, Badarse called you naïve for believing Ron is an Arsenal fan - that was very clear and straightforward, for once. He thought he could just sneak that one in, but now you've pulled him up on it he's attempted to cloud it in sophistry. Who's questioned your allegiance to AFC, Badarse? You've just been asked to make a case. You can't or won't, which is your prerogative, but the point is made - you don't have a point.

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 17:01 #62377

    OGL certainly has a lot to say in the press today, even quoting the ABK's favourite tired old line of having qualified for the CL for so many years bla bla, as someone has already suggested it's a pity he wasn't asked why he hasn't won it. He also must be aware or has been made aware that a lot of fans think he hasn't a clue about tactics as he tries to convince (in his best spin) to anybody that will listen that he's a master tactician, you couldn't make it up.

  46. Gaz

    Dec 01, 2014, 16:41 #62376

    @Badarse: I get your point fella.............I think!!! :-)...

  47. jeff wright

    Dec 01, 2014, 16:29 #62375

    Wenger is obviously well past his best and should be put out to pasture . He is just going around like a rat on a wheel with 4th place and the CL money being used to justify this boring repetitive cycle. Last season the FAC win distracted from the usual league title challenge collapse ,for which injuries to key players were blamed. The most ludicrous claim being that had Ramsey stayed fit then the title would have been ours. Ramsey was fit when we played Moyes United away ,result ,we lost 1-0. Wenger though is again blaming injuries for this season's early surrender to Chelsea and City and already he is looking nervously at the pretenders for the 4th place trophy ,with a few now scenting blood like sharks circling around a raft with shipwrecked sailors aboard it. Wenger can't afford any bad results now in the league because the genie is out of the magic lamp and can't be put back in regarding the obvious clamour from many supporters for Wenger to go. One big problem for Wenger is that he doesn't handle pressure and criticism well ,in fact it stresses him out and he starts babbling nonsense and reacting in a rather nasty way toward it. It will all get very messy as time goes by because Wenger is not going to be able to do any better than 4th place in the league this season,and he will need others to fail again to even do that. He is an arrogant fool who has brought about this situation through his own greed ,deluded ambitions and stupidity. Of course if he does get 4th place by then after the club's spin doctors have woven their webs it will be claimed that once again he has triumphed and that his critics are the fools because they can't name anyone who could possibly do any better. Amy Lawrence is indeed a local supporter but she is also a friend of Wenger's and wears light red tinted glasses ,these can often blur the reality of what the wearer is seeing. Her comment that the Wenger out banner was two weeks too late is a perfect example of this . It's never too late to change anything in football because it is a reciprocating scenario there is a difference between being in a rut or a grave .

  48. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 16:25 #62374

    JJ - Lawro seems a decent bloke i always think, but hes a man thats aged a lot overnight hasn't he? Surprising really. Amy Lawrence was a wet blanket on that Beeb prog wasnt she, assuming that's why she been mentioned on here? I saw on the SKY web site the other day where Henry Winter commented. The first one to actually suggest that AW has maybe taken us as far as he can. It is almost seemingly taboo to say anything by most media outlets that questions Wenger. People say Ferguson always had an easy ride from the press, but i think Wengers had the same, if not more preferential treatment down the years.Arsene doubtless disagrees though!

  49. jjetplane

    Dec 01, 2014, 15:54 #62373

    jason b she probably comes from the posh Blairland bit that has throttled the life out of working class Arsenal supporters. Who am my to have a dig - I read the Ob/Guard/Indy and I am from Islington too. One of the bits that was razed to the ground but was down the old Arsenal from the 60s onwards until Wenga overstayed his welcome (10 years and counting). Was expecting her to say just a little bit of subversion but is far enough into the corporate stew and getting nicely paid for it to want to rock the boat a little. Must be a problem when Lawro sounds subversive in comparison. Same old tired story of don't bite the hand which fits in nicely with the 'careful what you wish for' conservatism. 18 years and counting - what a waste!

  50. Badarse

    Dec 01, 2014, 15:49 #62372

    Hello Gaz. I apologise if my post seemed a little unfair. All our individual opinions are nothing more than subjective, this musician is better than that one, etc. However some considerations are almost axioms, though in a vacuum even that view is turned on it's head. The vacuum being a site where all but a small minority disagree with an accepted status quo. My support of my team is quintessentially a love affair, an unrequited one of course, though amongst like-minded individuals I get some reward in an acceptance of sorts. I ask for no more. The status of Arsenal fan is fiercely defended in this household, but people are free to challenge it, and do so on this site. Quite bizarre that a support spanning 58 years up until I began posting last year was never remotely questioned by anyone. Now seemingly my commitment and allegiance is called into question. I am guilty of this, responsible for that, talk in platitudes, am sanctimonious, pompous, and ironically by those I question as 'fans'. See? Subjective! Another questioned an individual's 'fan' credentials and you seemed incredulous, I wasn't. It's why I commented. You must see the link, even if not agreeing with the verdict, surely? No offence was intended but without a reappraisal on your part my view stands.

  51. chris dee

    Dec 01, 2014, 15:43 #62371

    It's no good people telling us which Arsenal manager won what when and how many titles they won. We now live in a different football world,Chelsea,City and other will continue to spend are not gonna go away. Either we compete with them on all fronts, or we tread water as we have been for the last ten years. I would love Arsene to battle it out with obnoxious Mourinho and the others,but if he can't or won't, then the fourth richest club in the world should find someone who can. Can I also point out that the people who always defend Arsene do not love the club any more that those who critisise him.

  52. Westlower

    Dec 01, 2014, 15:41 #62370

    @Ken, thanks for the correction as we didn't win the title in 31/32. Although Joe Shaw took over as team manager & Tom Whittaker as team trainer after Chapman's death the history books (rightly or wrongly) credit former director Allison with the league success in 33/34, 34/35 & 37/38. Allison didn't actually become manager until the end of the 33/34 season, but I'm sure you already know that!

  53. jason b

    Dec 01, 2014, 15:08 #62369

    @jjetplane.I stand to be corrected on this but isn't Amy Lawrence a life long Arsenal fan who supports her local team? Considering she is from Islington, she would be more qualified than most of us on here to comment on her local team.

  54. Unchives

    Dec 01, 2014, 15:05 #62368

    @ johnnyhawleyloovinggooner, Wenger is in sole charge of who Arsenal buy. He is also responsible for the wages we pay the players. He also decides on whether to extend a players contract. Remember the over thirties rule, that went to pot. His decisions. Gazidis words @ the AST QA meetings once a year. Go to the AST site if you don't believe me, the videos are there if you want to watch 6 hours worth of video excuses.Just watch the first one, all the others are almost identical.

  55. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 15:00 #62367

    KC - Good points. Its changed of course and there are lots of good fans still as you say.Many have dropped it though or been forced to drop it via the cost. Many have been battered down into quiet acceptance. Thats my main point mate.On the new stadia thing. im of the opinion its sort of had its day. Its interesting what Liverpool have chosen to do, though they maybe have a better star=ting point with what Anfield is to what we had at Highbury. I know as fact that ideally Everton didnt want to leave Goodison Park but such is the locality theyve no choice. Its impossible to develop without demolishing it totally.I think Clubs are now mindful of identity loss, that im not sure we contemplated. in my view its happened to us though. Pure long ball is hard to see and like you i wouldnt want it. The thing is though, guys like Pulis and Sam have had to use it. The Clubs theyve ran have had to use grafters and pit ponies to survive so theyve used them to best effect. It makes them really good coaches. We dont have to like them but i do respect those guys for sure and there's no one blueprint for how to play football.Ill go so far as to say that if such coaches went to big Clubs they do OK. They would buy into new ways, Club cultures and use the luxury of better players properly.Such performers need less 'managment' anyway dont they. Its unfair to tar them badly when theyve never had the chance to try it i always think. Its unfair to say the likes of Wenger and Mourinho would never produce at Stoke and Bolton etc as well. They probably would do ok.

  56. Ken

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:58 #62366

    Westlower- We didn't win the title in 31-32. Allison wasn't manager when we won in 33-34 as he didn't take over until June 34, Joe Shaw was our winning caretaker manager. That being the case, Allison obviously wasn't manager in 32-33 either but he was in 34-35 when we won the title again. Sorry to disappoint you but I'm afraid we've never won the league 4 years on the trot as you state, and of all the managers you listed only Mee has a worse seasons to titles ratio than Wenger. As an Arsenal fan of many decades and apparently a stats man, all this stuff should be in your head and recalled correctly without hesitation. Embarrassing. I reckon the only thing we need to lower our expectations of is your knowledge of The Arsenal.

  57. King George

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:50 #62365

    Not as good as 2 in 8

  58. goonergocarpfishing

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:46 #62364

    pleased with result ,the goal from Wellbeck ,the return of Koscielny and THE BANNER,Wenger must know he is on borrowed time so no matter how the match vs Soton finishes mid week (and lets be real if city with 10 men away can beat them then Wenger should be looking for a similar result)hopefully the BANNER and some Wenger out chants should help nail home the message,on a differant matter id like to see people lay off Ramsey a bit and hopefully someone like Arteta or Mertesacker can have a word with him about maybe keeping it simple and get back to what he does best,we will at best have to wait till the summer for the penny to drop or Wenger to be a man and step down so im afraid it will be another january sale of little goings on at our club apart from tales of who is there to buy ,no teams want to sell,they want too mch money blah blah blah or whatever is French for blah blah blah and we can watch citeh,chelski and manure strengthen ....WENGER OUT

  59. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:41 #62363

    I respect the right to protest but I did not like the banner. If Stan insists on keeping 70 odd mill in the bank other than putting cash in himself then there is a choice of who to ask to go. I can think of three million reasons for wanting Stan to go. I would think the board would be more than happy for AW to take the blame for everthing.it is not all AW fault and I do not like to see him targeted like this. Ask Stan et all to sell up and go instead.

  60. KC

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:33 #62362

    Ron - I can agree with some of your post especially about "borderline obsessed" Wengers reluctance to address our weaknesses prove his obsession to proved right, its a joke that is costing us dear.The length of time supporting is just based on how old we all are. We have no real say in ownership and I dislike Kronke like I disliked Hill-Wood. I want an owner who wants success based on trophies with good football. The stadium in my opinion is first class, Afc did what all others will do "move on" football is no different to the rest of society it evolves. With the sums coming in from Sky, BT etc its no surprise that football has changed but so has all areas of society. The majority of Arsenal fans are still the same people many that went to Highbury, many are loyal, patient, great supporters certainly not many of the words you use to describe them, the majority that go to away games go to home games. I sit with a great bunch regardless of pro or anti Wenger. Agree the club has become obsessed with money but we are no alone. I have no control re owner etc, I support always will, will keep going unless a manager is employed with a philosophy of long ball football (i.e win the second ball) which I do not enjoy. As for a drink Wenger over Sam any day.

  61. Red Member

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:29 #62361

    @westlower - amazing what you can do with figures isn't it. how about the fact that Arsenal won the league in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s.that means that Wenger has 5 years to win the league if that record is to be maintained. Can you see him achieving this? No me neither. why are there still Arsenal fans tying to prop up this specialist in failure?

  62. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:26 #62360

    Westie - certainly lower them. Its a point ive thought good for ages. Its likely the price to pay that we ll go lower before we go higher. A new Coach has a massive job to weed out all of the 2nd and 3rd tier players on long contracts there who are mentally and footballingly unsuitable for cranking up AFC out of its present stagnant state. He ll also have to imbue the Club with a new mentality by persuading the Board of his ways and then bring in players who arent 'victims' and who understand whats needed and who want to aim high and not settling for less. Its an enormous job and as such the relative green horn Coaches you mentioned earlier arent likely the men for it.In an ideal World, theyd bust the barriers, forget Wengers pride and crack the bank to get Mourinho, but wont. They need a man of his ilk though for sure. A guy whos not scared. This is where Utd went wrong. They knew Fergie had left a pile of rotting corpses bus asked a man who was like a rabbit in headlights to cure it. The AFC job isnt that big but the same ramifications of Wenger walking apply.So yes its true, the trophies arent going to roll in when AW goes. Its a price worth paying in my view.The other way of looking at it is to ask if there are any expectations left now any way?Ive none under Wenger and havent had for years. Maybe the task for a new man isnt as great as you might think?

  63. Westlower

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:23 #62359

    Further to my previous missive the historical odds of the next AFC manager being successful at winning the league title is 2/1 (33%) or a failure rate of 67%. @Mike Collins, re your best AFC 5 players. My list is not necessarily the best but the ones that gave me most pleasure in earlier times. George Eastham, George Armstrong, Jon Sammels, Charlie George & David Rocastle.

  64. Unchives

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:22 #62358

    @ Westlower - The top teams are the richest, we are one of them. If we lower our expectations, will Arsenal PLC lower their ticket prices? Will Wenger take a pay cut? Will the obscene food prices go down? Will "Diamond Club" be inclusive for all. You are the one that has low expectations if that is how you think.

  65. jjetplane

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:16 #62357

    What makes me laugh about WESTIE and his messiah hysteria is he hardly ever goes himself. What makes you such a perfect gooner? And why are you and Baddie not there every week standing shoulder to shoulder with the 8 million dollar 'man'? I don't go because I watch my football elsewhere and I have it on good authority (I know a few who still drag themselves screaming ..... ) that I have missed very little in the last decade. I probably would go a bit if I liked the set-up as much as you purportedly do. So what really is the problem or can neither of you talk about it? Like what you say there RON Football does not start and end with Arsenal and I love going to games where I am a neutral and let the mood take me. My pet love is Selsey FC at the moment and they are getting tonked every week and have one point so far in 8th tier football. I have watched their back four try to fend off the marauders and that is what football essentially is - a game of immense compassion. Good old Selsey.

  66. Westlower

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:06 #62356

    Reality check: Since Arsenal joined league division 2 in 1893/94 only 5 Arsenal managers have managed to win a league title before the Wenger era. 1930/31 & 31/32 H. Chapman, 32/33 ,33/34 & 37/38, G Allison; 47/48 T. Whittaker; B. Mee 70/71; G.Graham 88/89 & 90/91. On average that works out at a manager every 20 years to be successful at winning the League title. AW has won the title 3 times in 18 years, so he's outperforming the norm at AFC? Maybe we need to lower our expectations when the next manager is appointed?

  67. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:05 #62355

    MG - Its a win win for the media isnt it while they fence sit. They stand to get a choice from 2 great potential stories plus weeks of typeface for eulogies. The splash as you say, prompted by what they'll describe as fan power and then they can moralize (Daily Mail) over what fans and football have become, while denigrating the fans as unfair, ungracious and myopic as they 'sympathise' with the treatment of the man on 8 Million quid pa etc etc . On the other hand, if he walks unprompted they can both eulogise and discuss for weeks how a great man was worn down by financial constraints and an ungrateful and unhelpful Board who never understood him or football.Add to both scenarios how they can speculate on the end of AFC as a Club. Theyre licking their lips. Chances are the headlines are already prepped and the leading articles have been there for months.

  68. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 14:01 #62354

    Mark, Apologies for capitals and spelling.

  69. CT Gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:54 #62353

    Thank god for that Banner, now the debate can begin in earnest. To me, the banner represents the first time supporters (folks who travel to watch our team) have expressed publicly what many of us fans have been thinking and saying for a while. I see it as a call to arms if you will, letting the board and manager know "we're" not happy with this and either put it right or leave. I believe he's incapable of doing so, and should be shown the door in May, but for those AKB's he's got one last opportunity in January to fill those obvious gaps. Arsenal were huge before Wenger, Wenger was nothing, now many think it's the opposite. hopefully in a few years they'll realize how reactionary they were being.

  70. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:51 #62352

    Mark from ALSBURY, your right, they have and they are (although some would have you believe they're not) just look at the way the old fraud was riled and he seen the banner alright,( that must have been some blow to his ego)hopefully this is just the start and we'll see many more, as others have already said he's probably under more scrutiny and pressure now, and from more fans than ever before and there's no hiding place, and he knows it.

  71. Bard

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:49 #62351

    Some really good posts today. Unchives that's absolutely right. If they charged 10 bob to get in there's no argument. As Jamie points out, he pays 2 grand. For that sort of money I would expect more ambition than CL qualifying. The other point is that despite investing more than £80m over the summer we look a whole heap worse than we were last year. The side is so patently way off being a top team that one additional player won't fix it. Sport's about winning and accountability , Wenger needs to be accountable, but he's not.

  72. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:27 #62350

    Westlower; I make the average finish under OGL 2.72 - from '97 to '05 it was 1.7 and between '06 and '14 it was 3.66 recurring. Next question, can anyone give me the line up - including subs - for the 1973-74 League Cup defeat at home to Tranmere. I'm being sarcastic BTW.

  73. Unchives

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:27 #62349

    @ Westlower - Thanks for giving our league positions since 1960/61, can you also give us the cost of a ticket then and now please? Barcelona & Real Madrid are cheaper. Do you not understand the correlation between how much a business charges and the customers expectations.The top clubs know, and they deliver. Class C Egg for Class A price.Whats wrong with you?

  74. Dartford gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:20 #62348

    Westlower, i wonder what you thought of the appointment of Wenger all them years ago. Young unknown guy given a chance at a big club. Why do you think a new man coming in would flop. Never be scared of change, if we stand still we will fall farther behind the teams at the top. Do you want Arsene to carry on into his 70's, he will have to go some time, why not at the end of the season. Start again with a new man, it may take a few years to get back to the top ,it may not work but the last ten years have not been that great.

  75. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:18 #62347

    I see yr point Westie and on its face its a point well made, though put in context of the modern game its now a redundant one.The Club never set itself up to or held itself out as able of reaching the pinnacle of the game in all of those years that you mention. Admittedly the Club even now is still very guarded to the point of being brazenly vague as to what it does want to REALLY achieve, if anything. Jam today and caviar tomorrow duped the fans for along time. They now no longer meekly accept the same recipe. Its the price the Club will now have to pay for its hubris. Vagueness hides the Clubs ambivalence still to an extent but more to the point, it hides a lack of any genuine wish to play for higher rewards, beyond financial ones. They still want to charge the earth to the punters though while being coy with the truth, thats why the fans (save for those of yr persuasion of course) arent going to let Wenger get an easy ride for too much longer. Hes had a good run. They've the trappings now of a Club to reach at least Manchester Utd levels as they promised a decade back, yet they've reined in trying to do it. A Club like Arsenal cant now tell the paying customer one thing and then do some thing totally different while charging top notch prices for a product that's clearly a moderate and oft malfunctioning one. Some thing has to give and it will. The con will have to end soon. Im pretty sure this could have only happened to a London Club. Had the same last decade of Arsenals history have occurred at say, Anfield the Coach wouldn't have led such a charmed life i wager. As it is, while they develop Anfield the Coach there whoever it happens to be is going to expected to produce. Arsenal need a new bar. Theyve gone stale. 4th is no longer much to write home about. The customer is on to them and you know what, Wenger and that Board know it.Its been a long time a coming in my book.

  76. cyril

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:15 #62346

    Westlower, I respect your opinion and it's good to have a'broad church' and we still do. However, I must point out that since 1974, we have only finished outside the top 7 on 3 occasions and we done the cup double in one of those years. So, as far as yo yo's go, that must be some short string!!

  77. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:12 #62345

    Ron, and you can imagine the stampede and the back stabbing among them all to be first with the headline wenger resigns, wenger walks, fans drive wenger out,(if only) etc, etc, and then for his first quote/interview after he's done the decent thing, we'll be bored for weeks.

  78. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:04 #62344

    @ Westlower, the argument isn't about average league position, haven't you picked up on that yet? People are bored of the same old, same old. Do you really need it spelt out for you once again? No, I don't think you do, but you'll keep on trotting out the same old lines as it's all you have. You cannot tackle the specific criticisms head on. By the way, why do those other managers have 'questions to answer' yet to question Wenger is to undermine the club? Double standards.

  79. Bard

    Dec 01, 2014, 13:00 #62343

    Jamie: I'm a supporter of the right to an opinion, I think you're posts are tongue in cheek rather than you're a psychiatric patient on day release, at least I hope so !!!!!!!

  80. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:54 #62342

    Westie - Ha. surely not the leathery smug grin though? On the managers, i dont think any of them are joining Arsenal. Yr right though, it ll all be short terms stuff once AW moves on. Thats the nature of the coaching beast these days. High pressure, high reward, low tolerance of mediocrity. I think the top coaches wouldn't have it any other way to be honest, despite what they say when they pick up their cards. Heroic when they win, good pay off when they fail and no need to get too attached to said Club.

  81. Westlower

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:54 #62341

    My definition of a YO-YO club. Arsenal's finishing league positions prior to the Wenger years. 1960/61 onward's when I first attended Arsenal matches. 11, 10,7,13,14,7,9,4,12,1,5,2,10,16,17,8,5,7,4,3,5,10,6,7,7,4,6,1,4.1,4,10,4,12,5. Average position 7th. If it happened today European football would remain a dream. Reads like a YO-YO club to me? Yes we had Cup successes but we had our share of embarrassing defeats also. Some of you need to check out your Arsenal history? Anyone care to guess the average finishing position since Wenger arrived or maybe that doesn't suit today's banner waving mentality?

  82. maguiresbridgr gooner

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:51 #62340

    When asked about the banner the old fraud said I don't have to comment on that really? why not? it concerned Arsenal it concerned him, it concerned the fans, it's what they were saying and wanted (he has an opinion about everything else)what happened to the they pay their money they're entitled to they're opinion quote? the old has been couldn't even bring himself to say that (instead getting stroppy with the interviewer) wenger has brought arrogance to a new level.

  83. Gaz

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:49 #62339

    @Westlower. I'd love to see that book of yours. Actually, on second thoughts...

  84. Tony Evans

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:45 #62338

    Great to see a Wenger Out banner at last, which I see has provoked the usual arguments. Arrogantly dismissed of course by Wenger but I am sure it hit the target. Oh and we won 1-0 but who cares.

  85. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:40 #62337

    @ Westlower, I'd turn that right back at you. Those who continue to support a manager whilst being incapable of actually making a case for his continued tenure beyond sentiment, are no long supporters of the club but of the man.

  86. Westlower

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:33 #62336

    Enjoy the tranquil sea before we hit choppy waters with a succession of failed future managers as we adopt the 'hire em, fire em' Daniel Levy approach to football management. Moyes, Klopp, Rodgers, Martinez all dynamic young managers but all have questions to answer. Everyone can do hindsight. Supporters who turn against their own club are no longer supporters in my book. Let the professionals run the club and keep your moans for the pub. @Ron, It has been said that I resemble AW?

  87. Gaz

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:28 #62335

    @Jamie: Your brothers name isn't Harvey is it? @Badarse: Come on then fella, I'm all ears, why am I naive?...

  88. Jumpers for Goalposts

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:13 #62334

    Thanks for clearing that up JAMIE. Trouble is though - you don't give opinions, you just abuse or wind people up. You might find it funny but trust me, it's not! Give us your reasons why you think Wenger is still the best man for the job. PS - I had an imaginary cousin when I was eight years old.

  89. JAMIE

    Dec 01, 2014, 12:04 #62333

    I have said on more than one occasion that Pete and I are brothers.I am a season ticket holder who pays £2,000 for my seat my brother is also a regular at the Emirates so I think our opinions count.If you don't want us to post then we won't,yet I believe the site will be worse for it.

  90. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:56 #62332

    @Badarse, it's all too easy to describe those that actually ask you for your views as 'negative' and 'vindictive' in lieu of actually giving those views. I will actually answer your question though - no I saw no 'attack' in your last comment and didn't suggest you'd made one. I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say, rather than hearing you say you have said it. See this as a negative and personal agenda if you must. I see that and 'I answer to no man' as a convenient means of hiding behind not making an actual case.

  91. Bard

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:53 #62331

    My word such emotion on the back of trouncing WB, think what it could be like if we started beating top sides. We would almost be a proper football club. Good to see the AKBs back and in full flow. If we beat Soton on Wednesday it will be like another trophy. Not sure what the alternative is to banners and flags, maybe an email to the club? Or banning dissent altogether. Part of a healthy democracy is a vibrant opposition. As far as my political knowledge goes the other alternative you call a dicatorship.

  92. Badarse

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:45 #62330

    E/G, I give views, I answer to no man, especially not vindictive individuals with a negative and personal agenda. Now examine my response and admit, if not to others but to yourself, that you feel my response was an attack or not. Walk a mile in another's shoes-providing you don't suffer from athlete's foot, only then consider a pompous pronouncement. By the way, if you could see the protuberance on my face you may deduce my tongue is in my cheek.

  93. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:37 #62329

    @Badarse, neither you or Westlower are 'targets'. You once again melodramatically overstate your importance and display a victim mentality that has strange echoes. Westlower has commented and others have responded. Do you have a point of your own? Sorry if you find it 'ungentlemanly' to be questioned in this manner.

  94. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:36 #62328

    Mark - The pundits and press are in a sort of journalistic no mans land ie they know what's needed and know that change is vital but they don't want to look daft by being too upfront about it. Wengers 15 years thing, his longevity and general good record is such that demanding change on one hand can look daft yet on the other seem necessary. They choose to fence sit accordingly, like politicians do until its safe to shout up for some thing. They ll want the fans to start the momentum. Many of the press and media also know him so well now too, that will prevent them getting too heavy with Wenger as after all hes always been good for a quote (often a barmy one granted, though the media love them!) for years and they wont want to lose him really. Theres also the case that they ll want to be eulogising over him for weeks on end as they did Fergie so preceding it by suggesting he moves on would seem at variance with doing that. The media are like the fans really. They need things to get worse at Arsenal before calls for change can really seem obvious, yet many would ask what's wrong with what we ve got already, which is where your Westie types reside. AFC have been at their glass ceiling for years, the argument is that if they really do want to crack it, how soon do they want to break it to do so? It carries the risk as well that once the glass breaks, the roof could cave in for a while before things get better than the humdrum, albeit tedious consistency that Wenger offers already. Therein lies Wenger's strength i.e.. how brave are the fans and the Board prepared to be? I do think though that he now realises that his bluff has to a degree been called and that people are far braver than maybe he originally thought and certainly far more bullish than they were 6 months back. We shall see wont we.

  95. Badarse

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:26 #62327

    Welcome home 24601, 'Reginald to my Archibald'. Hope you have put the penny farthing away carefully-shall explain to the population later.Today I am next to him and am in total agreement with his words. Two targets for the price of one, gentlemen, and the 'not gentlemen'.

  96. HowardL

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:20 #62326

    I found the banner embarrassing - I feel the club is stuck in a 4th palce rut but there's something there about not doing one's dirty washing in public.

  97. Red Member

    Dec 01, 2014, 11:11 #62325

    westlower - I always take the term "a yo yo club" to be those clubs who keep getting relegated and promoted. this is not something that I associate with Arsenal as we havent been relegated for 100 years. we did however yo yo between 1st, 2nd and then maybe 6th or 10th. much preferred that to be honest to the now very boring 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th yawn seasons. still each to their own. don't you ever think of what the club might achieve with someone new?

  98. Jumpers for Goalposts

    Dec 01, 2014, 10:50 #62324

    Mike - your post at 20:59 30 Nov 2014. I'm all for lively debate and that is what this site should be about. BUT - why hasn't JAMIE been blocked / banned?? He / she has been caught out several times posting under different names simply to wind people up; he / she is abusive to fellow posters (tongue-in-cheek or not, it's still abuse); he / she adds nothing to the debate other than deliberately winding people up. These are serious and important times for Arsenal and we can do without a Troll intent only on winding people up. Yours sincerely - Jumpers for Goalposts AKA Kim Jong Un

  99. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 01, 2014, 10:41 #62323

    @Ken, Westlower believes the last decade has been a time of greater achievement than the '30s for AFC, so you can work out what his response will be. Actually won the European Cup in the last decade? But you didn't always qualify for it - far better to always qualify than actually win the thing. Yes, some fans actually think like that. @Unchives, I think a lot of AKBs are folk that got attracted towards AFC due to the football in earlier times under Wenger. So obviously it's him they really support. It seems with older fans it can go two ways - they become very conservative, or as they can remember life before Wenger, they're not scared of change.

  100. Unchives

    Dec 01, 2014, 10:32 #62322

    @ Westlower - The reason Arsenal are in the top four is because the teams below cannot us compete with us financially, similarly, we cant compete with the teams above us. When Arsenal get a new manager in, will his target be, get us in the top four....where there already!I get the impression that the so called AKBs are the older generation and are frightened of change.

  101. Ken

    Dec 01, 2014, 10:19 #62321

    Westlower- Which club has the best Champion's League record over the past 15 years, Arsenal or yoyo club Liverpool?

  102. Unchives

    Dec 01, 2014, 10:17 #62320

    @ Mark from Aylesbury - I noticed the shift of opinion a month ago and knew this time it was different to the protests gone before. The Banner is just the beginning, however Wenger knows the pressure is on,hence his reaction to being asked about it, any bad results in this period and its over for him. It proves that protesting does work.

  103. Ron

    Dec 01, 2014, 10:09 #62319

    Good old Westie - many would suggest that its equally the case of being a good thing that you have no influence either old buddie. You do sound worried though. Hes just a Coach you know, not yr Dad.

  104. Red Member

    Dec 01, 2014, 9:54 #62318

    keep the pressure on him and he is starting to and will crack. so we have beaten WBA. so what? when was the last time we actually beat a team with more resources than us? in fact we have not yet beaten a team in the top 12 of the PL this season and we are now into December!!! WENGER OUT

  105. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 01, 2014, 9:49 #62317

    The banners and flyers have caused more debate over Wengers tenure than over the whole of the last 5 seasons. So waving banners and handing out flyers is working. Journalists can now allow themselves the view that some Arsenal supporters are not happy. Previously this has been put down to a lunatic fringe. This is pretty standard stuff where a new rationale gains traction. Usmanov is politically moving into a Wenger out position (Wenger old man lacking new tricks) . Ex Arsenal players are still doing the Arsene stay through gritted teeth. It needs Phil Nevills to say Arsenal supporters wang more. Check any random poll and you see 65% are saying go. This is being reflected in Ladbroke polls, website polls and newspaper polls. So momentum moves in this direction. Pressure is on him like never before.

  106. chris dee

    Dec 01, 2014, 9:30 #62316

    Arsene came out swinging when asked about 'the banner'. 'we've qualified for the Champions League 15 years in a row' etc etc .Arsene was bullish as we beat another team in the bottom half of the table and after victory over the team bottom of the Bundesliga. But Arsene,what would you have answered if the question all Arsenal supporters would have asked, be put to you by the press.Why haven't you won the Champions frigging League in 15 years? It's because in the self satisfied,smug,comfort zone world of the our club,yes our club,qualifying for the Champions League and finishing 4th in the League is just dandy.And they can't understand why the peasants are revolting and not happy with their lot. So nice try Arsene,some might buy your bluster,but two wins have changed nothing.

  107. Westlower

    Dec 01, 2014, 9:10 #62315

    Arsene Wenger IS the reason Arsenal have never dropped out of the top 4. We've stopped being a yoyo club for the first time in my long life span. Just as well some of the 'good judges' on this site don't have a say in the running of AFC. Carry on waving your banners as it wont change a thing!

  108. Edmund

    Dec 01, 2014, 9:07 #62314

    I wonder if the team practices aiming the ball at Girould and nothing else. Maybe that would explain why his presence makes such a difference. Without him, they aim straight at th opposing keeper instead of the wide open areas inside the net.

  109. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Dec 01, 2014, 8:47 #62313

    jjjetplane @15.39 30/11/14: I met Amy Lawrence once, a long long time ago after a home game vs Sunderland. You could tell even then she had a career as a broadsheet journalist ahead of her. I think she did pay to get into that game though.

  110. Badarse

    Dec 01, 2014, 8:28 #62312

    I don't.

  111. smithy

    Dec 01, 2014, 7:46 #62311

    I agree with Mathew!

  112. Mathew

    Dec 01, 2014, 5:43 #62310

    Heard Gibbs is injured again and Flamini will cover for him as Monreal is out too. Southampton will be firing at all cylinders and Wenger will blame fatigue.

  113. maguresbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 23:29 #62309

    Bard, well said mediocrity and the lack of ambition is bad enough, (thanks wenger) but the acceptance of it has made it all even worse (thanks wengerites) and that's the way it will remain, as long as this old zip fiddler remains at the helm giving his followers cause to soil their pants every time we beat the west broms of this world and the other teams you mention.

  114. Ron

    Nov 30, 2014, 22:41 #62308

    KC - To be honest mate i dont have any views on 'how football should be played'. Im not into 'philosophies' in sporting pursuits. Those who say they are and try to be so in my view are hamstringing themselves. Wenger does this and as much as he presided over i really good team and created another very good one he taken the concept of how the game should be played to bizarre levels and is boderline obsessed with his philosophy about playing the game and manging those who play it. Like many philosophers hes a tad off the wall, edging towards being mentally skewed vis other less complex people and probably has an obsessive personality. Dont blame me for this view, blame my tutors at Uni!! In Wengers case i think it soundly applies. Be nice to meet him and find out though i think id sooner have a pint with big Sam all day long. I wouldn't know what a 'fan sounds like' and ive rarely met two the same. Managers? Loved GG and have enjoyed some of Wengers offerings too. Soryy to disappoint you though but in my lifetime of supporting the Gunners (and i started when Billy Wright) was boss, we ve never had my ideal manager. They were Bill Shankly, later Bob Paisley and having twice met Sir Matt Busby who was a staggeringly compelling bloke, ill choose all 3 as my ideal Coaches. Ill add two more too, lesser known but one was Ron Saunders at Aston Villa.The other was Harry Catterick at Everton. HC created the most smooth and sublime football team ive ever seen in english leahgue football ie the Everton team of 1969/70 All gelled power, high skill, cynicism, pace, height and creativity into some wonderful teams. Jose Mourinho in may ways is similarly gifted but hes fallen into the modern day trap of accepting (and enjoying) Coaches having a greater profile in the game than teams and players sadly. Its the TV s fault though sadly. Id have Jose M at Arsenal though at the drop of a hat. Wengers crated a view that he brought attractive football to England. Its the biggest load of boll---s ive ever heard. I think even Ron Atkinson at WBS in the late 70s and early 80s created a team with as much flair as ever Wenger has done. Methinks youre Wenger blinkered though. Im an Arsenal fan as my Club, but first and foremost im a football fan and Club comes a poor second to that. Not to be, means you miss so much good in what others do to yr ultimate detriment. Theres a bit of philosophy for you KC. Hope this does for you. Meanwhile ill carry on not sounding like a fan!!

  115. Gaz

    Nov 30, 2014, 22:32 #62307

    @Badarse: have a missed something?...

  116. Badarse

    Nov 30, 2014, 22:22 #62306

    Gaz, you are very naïve.

  117. Gaz

    Nov 30, 2014, 22:06 #62305

    'Ron doesn't sound like a real fan'. Good grief!!! I really think I've heard it all now...

  118. KC

    Nov 30, 2014, 22:02 #62304

    Ron sorry to gate crash the cartel, with all due respect you just dont sound like a real fan. But hey we all have our opinions and as you say the board offers a chance to air them. We obviously have very different views on how football should be played but we may just find agreement re Wengers future although I am guessing your a big Sam or Pullis fan which for me would mean the absolute end of my season ticket.

  119. Mike

    Nov 30, 2014, 20:59 #62303

    Pete/Jamie - I believe you've been warned before by admin about using different names in an attempt to wind people up or provoke a reaction. I appreciate your threats of violence are tongue-in-cheek and perhaps are even designed to amuse, but be aware that constant flouting of the rules will see your IP address blocked from posting comments.

  120. Ken

    Nov 30, 2014, 20:59 #62302

    peter wain- We've been generally keeping it in house for the past 6 years and all that's happened is Wenger being given new megabucks contracts in reward for not seriously competing for anything worth winning since 2006. In any case, I reckon the 8-2, 6-0, 5-1, 6-3, 4-4 and numerous other embarrassments have given the media plenty enough stick to beat us with, don't you? Personally, seeing the banner made me feel proud that the fans involved are willing to go the extra yard in an effort to end the malaise and take the team and club forward, even though many others are still obviously part of the depressing acceptance culture that pervades Arsenal's supporter base.

  121. Pete

    Nov 30, 2014, 20:47 #62301

    I don't know how many snouts that I have to twist and backsides I have to kick before it registers with these people that they're not welcome at the Emirates.Arsenal FC is a theater of entertainment not a gathering for lynch mobs and other deviants.

  122. Ron

    Nov 30, 2014, 20:19 #62300

    KC - I should mention as well if you dont mind that Bard and myself go back a long way on here. Largely sing from the same hymn sheet, some times we dont. We tell each other when we dont agree and neither of us bother. Bard's a smart lad and a very good poster with forthright and often hard edged views . He dont need you squaring up to me on his behalf. He knows he can tell me boll-cks whenever he wants if ever i get under his skin, same way as you can. I draw the line at not being called a real fan though, that's all.Thats the beauty of this board mate.

  123. Ron

    Nov 30, 2014, 20:03 #62299

    Hi Bard - im right with you there, I think its a poor league yet its constantly bulled up to be some thing better than it is. The so called games v top teams have taken on a feel of being as ordinary as the games v the middle teams now. Do any of them save Chelsea maybe and City deserve so called category A status? Its long been a thing for me. Have Tottenham and Liverpool really merited such status for so long? I think not. KC - i suspects that you're the one out of order. I support the Club and have done for over 40 years. I also reserve the right to say it as i see it and if it offends so be it. Its right i no longer go to the Emirates and havent been for nigh on 2 years but i do my share of away days. Many away fan regulars don't go to home games either for the same reasons as me. My view agrees with those who say that the Emirates is perhaps the poorest atmosphere in the league given how many attend there. A good many who go there dont like it saying, a good many dont care. I find the staid low key feel of the place quite embarrassing and denied it myself for quite some years but wont shirk from saying it now. Part reason is that many fans are bored with it, go out of habit and go to maintain whichever membership status us they have. This isnt being personal to Arsenal fans, the whole membership scheme makes prisoners of them, esp the Gold members. You might not like to read the truth but the vast majority who go do sit there like lemons. You must know many fans of other Clubs who all say the same thing? Theyre not lying. To be honest, its a London Club thing now. St Marys is the only PL ground ive not been to now. Ive done all of the others many times and while its correct that all grounds have days when theyre like funeral parlours, Arsenals is consistently the least edifying atmosphere. Whats stepping aside from being a regular does is to allow an objective look at both Arsenal and PL football in general. Its my view that neither are particularly impressive. Sorry if my view offends you, i really am but its not personal as i say. Feel free to disagree, many will, many do agree though. Just dont question my credentials as a fan of the Club as i suspect ive been at it far longer than you.

  124. jjetplane

    Nov 30, 2014, 19:40 #62297

    The Ox did not play but he had a good kip in the first half. If you have any Banners - head for the bloke sitting all alone with his 'slop bucket.' You could not make it up. Things are hotting up in Norf Lundun with Spuddies catching up again. Arsenal shroud anyone.

  125. KC

    Nov 30, 2014, 19:37 #62296

    Ron you are rather hypercritical you have a dig at Bard for a light hearted dig at WBA and yet you think nothing off digging at all things Arsenal including the supporters that dare go and support their team. I accept you do not want to go and support us but please try and avoid digging at genuine supporters that do.

  126. Bard

    Nov 30, 2014, 19:35 #62295

    Ron; you're right but the financial gulf is so big now that its hard to call it a proper competition. Its not as bad as La Ligue but getting close. The truth is that there are only about a dozen or so games worth watching, most of which Arsenal lose. If Arsenal having spent £80m in the transfer window can't beat West Brom then we might as well all go home. And there in lies the debate. Who is it we are actually competing with? Everton, Spuds, Southampton, Swansea, clubs that have nothing like our resources. The acceptance of mediocrity and the level of ambition at the club is pathetic.

  127. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 19:30 #62294

    Gaz, excellent post, post of the day, and DW's straight after not far behind. What in the hell has happened to some fans.

  128. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 18:56 #62293

    Big Andy, spot on you can be sure is they were in praise of the old man who lives in a shoe/long jacket, they'd be welcome and i'd even bet the little hitlers at the Emirates would be helping put them up, but I suppose to be fair to them they're only following orders (i'd love to know what they really think and are saying in the pub afterward) but all the same quite happy to accept the yankee dollar, maybe if they start disobeying orders (for the good of the club) and letting them through and be displayed we'll have more of them, and therefore more notice all round from media, press, etc, etc, and appropriate action taken from our own powers that be.

  129. Pete

    Nov 30, 2014, 18:45 #62292

    If anybody tries to unfurl any treacherous banners anywhere in my vicinity on Wednesday night,they shall get a slop bucket over their head and a large boot up their behind.Consider yourselves warned! I am not the sort of person to be meddled with and have been known to launch many a delinquent heaven bound.2-0 Arsenal is my prediction.

  130. peter wain

    Nov 30, 2014, 18:42 #62291

    although I have wanted Wenger out for the last two or three years the sight of the banner after the match disgusted me. We should try to keep this in house instead of giving the media a stick to beat Arsenal with. The match was a typical affair - a much better team scores one goal and then retreats and just about holds out for win. still need to see at least two holding mid field players (6ft plus please) and at least another defender in window. I expect a injured loan player. Why the ox did not play yesterday when he has been playing well surprised me and if he wants to Podolski to stay I am surprised he did not introduce him for Giroud.

  131. Torbay gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 18:34 #62290

    Good post Gaz, sums up how I feel at the moment. I wish a few of the ex Arsenal players would speak about how they truly felt about this manager instead of toeing the party line.

  132. DW Thomas

    Nov 30, 2014, 18:33 #62289

    So,true Gaz! That's what bothers me the most. These guys make more in a week than I make in 3-4 years! Everything is given to them. They have to do nothing regular Joes do! Yet we should pity them? No way mate! Arsene earns his millions currently based on past victories 10 years ago and the TV money he gets the club. He is a man stuck in the past, arrogant to the extreme, and a man who thinks he is right every time! To defend someone like him when he makes mistake after mistake seems delusional to me. As a club who supposedly desires more, it's not enough to simply accept top 4. There is a good base to achieve more should the club and manager desire. However, the ambition is not there. And things will never get better with those currently in charge!

  133. Gaz

    Nov 30, 2014, 18:15 #62288

    Seen the goal on Youtube this morning (was out all day yesterday) but other than that I've had no real desire to watch highlights of the game. RE the real talking point of THAT banner. Firstly lets get out of the way the notion that you shouldn't be bringing to games banners like that. If you're 'allowed' to bring in 'Arsene we trust' banners you should be able to bring in banners criticising Wenger. I mean for goodness sake it wasn't even remotely abusive! As for the timing I reckon it was absolutely spot on! I mean as far as the AKBs are concerned no time is a good time! Thing is those of us who want Wenger out have taken many years to get to this point so one game where we've won shouldn't restrict the putting up of this banner. No corner was turned, we just won a game. We've done this kind of thing (beating the lesser sides) for many years now and it'll take a hell of a lot more before I even remotely consider changing how I feel about Wenger. I also think unhurling after a win strengthens the case against Wenger as it shows some fans aren't fickle enough to change opinion because of one win. Another thing about this banner that really annoys me is it shows how f*cking precious some of our fans are when it comes to criticising players and managers. They're not Gods, they're not special people, they're just normal people who happen to be working for the Club we all love. And guess what? They're not doing it for the bleedin love of it either they're doing it for the kind of money that most of us can only dream about! Ok, I get the fact that Wengers been great for us but thats just it-he was great and now he isn't. But hearing some of the comments from AKBs this morning would have you believe Wenger is now beyond all critisism. That can never be a healthy position to be in yet I worry that Wenger could win no major trophuies for another 5 years and excuses will continue to be made for him...

  134. Ron

    Nov 30, 2014, 17:47 #62287

    Bard - a bit disrespectful to WBA that. Could be right but those that do watch them create a better atmosphere there with 25000 in the place than do the 60000 tarquins that frequent our glass bowl. Applying your criteria to that PL, there are 10 other 'nothing' opponents as well. Its a damn good job there are as these are the only teams that we and Wenger can beat. Im betting you're a secret singer of 'youve only come to see the Arsenal' on away days? Campaign v Wenger as i do mate but dissing another Club in the process is to sink to his levels as the arrogant french fraud has regularly just sent Arsenal teams to play these sides for years, half cocked, half prepped, half paced held back by 'a handbrake'and thinking he just needs to turn up hence hes often copped a cold v such Clubs.To get him out a few of these 'nothing' Clubs need to beat us, like it or not.

  135. DW Thomas

    Nov 30, 2014, 17:46 #62286

    Give credit when due lads. But, the pressure should be kept on this club, manager, and players to deliver. Ramsey,though poor this season, still keeps his head down and tries. He and the others just need a better coach. The money involved with this club, salaries et al, demands better. Otherwise, it's just another for profits business. Arsene looked totally flustered responding to the questions regarding the banner. Why choose not to comment? A braver man would respond, no? He does put up with a lot of stick from the fans sometimes, but for most of his problems he must take the blame. Wednesday is another chance to add three points vs a good team who just lost 3-0 to City. We must gauge ourselves vs the best. A good result and there may be some hope of turning a corner. Yet, how many times has that been said before? With no change in the end. One man refuses to change, improve, bring new ideas. So the club stays in the same place as well, the world of 4th place is enough. I'd say that the banner says most of the fans want more.

  136. Big Andy

    Nov 30, 2014, 17:45 #62285

    Yesterday's game taught us nothing that we didn't know already. Yet again, we beat a struggling side which will probably be fighting for survival in May. And with a bit of luck WBA might have even taken two points off us. WE ARE A VERY AVERAGE SIDE. The problems will come when we face United, City, Chelsea Spurs and the other top-half teams - then, yet again, we'll get found out. The best thing about yesterday was the 'Wenger Out' banner: it was perfectly worded. What a shame that the fascists at the E******s certainly would not allow it. All banners at our ground must be in worship of our 'Dear Leader'. Any dissent must be crushed. Sad, sad days.

  137. Bard

    Nov 30, 2014, 17:23 #62283

    Good result though it was, I thought it was one of those nothing games. who wants to watch West Brom except their fans. A routine win but I didnt see anything that suggests better days ahead. I agree with Unchives, the boss was decidedly tetchy about the banner and shows how much pressure he is under. The old excuse that we haven't the money to compete has gone out of the window and he's out of his comfort zone. However as I have posted before I don't think he will walk whatever happens. Why would you? No ones stupid enough to walk away from a job that pays £8m a year unless you're sacked. Good report as aways Kev

  138. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 17:16 #62282

    Two in a row? we're going well another win for us and the team against the mighty brom, (what ever colour they played in) but you can only beat what's in front of you, or so we keep been told (apart from the big boys)but there you are the sheep are happy again but the wool hasn't been pulled over everybody's eyes with yet another regulation win and it won't be in the future either.

  139. KC

    Nov 30, 2014, 16:59 #62281

    Bottom line we deserved to win but it was a performance that was not convincing. The offside decision was wrong but they do go against us as well so you take it. One concern is stil the lack of a real cutting edge to many good positions wasted. The other concern is that as soon as they took a chance and attacked us we looked vulnerable, Flamini is not up to the job, age is taking its toll just to slow, it's this obvious weakness that never goes away under Wenger. The away fans are so entitled to their banner and voice and when they turn there is hope that it could be the beginning of the end.

  140. Dan Polowski

    Nov 30, 2014, 16:53 #62280

    "West Brom can't cope with the Santi Cazorla show" - Telegraph. "Cazorla proves key man for Gunners" - Mail. "Cazorla superb" - Radio 5.

  141. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 16:09 #62278

    It was great to see all the fans celebrating the goal that turned out to be the winner with the players (just like we always do) as the old has been attempted a jig on the side lines all on his own, and then the banner wanting the old fraud out coming into view and remaining there, very appropriate indeed and if that doesn't tell him and his followers something it never will, and the players continuing their interaction also, and still coming over and applaud at the end with it in full view, i'd say that says and tells us a lot also, and maybe that's what was intended.

  142. Mike Collins

    Nov 30, 2014, 15:54 #62277

    Perspective time: we have beaten relegation candidates, who last won a league match against Leicester a month ago, 1-0. We scored an excellent goal, thanks to a great cross by Cazorla who, mysteriously to me, other posts here acclaim as man of the match, as did a TV company. Check his other shots and set pieces out, please. Our very poor opponents were done out of a one-on-one between their England striker and our third-choice goalkeeper by a woeful refereeing decision. These things happen, of course, but you do wonder. Saints have just lost badly to Man City so I'm expecting to see the Gunners blow them to pieces (as MC have just done), with a revitalised Aaron and Santi entrancing the passionate Emirates crowd (wake up at the back there) with their sublinme skills. C'mon Arsenal!

  143. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 15:41 #62276

    Two things struck me about the game.On West Brom's first corner they had a two v one overload on the back post with Cazorla on a 6ft 2 player.Do we ever practice corners? Also when their keeper came up at the end and Ramsey got possesion, he went for the Beckham glory shot instead of a simple pass to the Ox who could have run on to score.That sums Aaron up this season, no team responsibility, it's all about himself.Now we have several goalscorers in the team we don't need him.Cash him in and buy a midfielder with some discipline.Also well done to those with the banner who have now put the Wenger debate in the national media.Mind you the later are still swallowing the poor Arsene,loads of injuries rubbish they get fed by the club.

  144. jjetplane

    Nov 30, 2014, 15:39 #62275

    MG we are certainly more interested in spud & toffee games than what what happens up in Manchester or in west London. Not bad for one of the biggest clubs in the world who are 'envied for their organisation and beautiful football' across the universe. What that means is they're pretty **** under Wenger. Amy Lawrence says the banner (The Banner) was two weeks too late. I reckon Lawrence has never paid to go to game in her life and is a decade late with her comment. Do not like Lawrenson but he did say 'what a well made banner' which then AKB Lawrence (fully paid up member) politely agreed because she writes for the Observer you know ..... The Banner is living history of a great' club - get used to it.

  145. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 14:50 #62274

    jj, and we were pushing hard for fourth, maybe that's why the sly smirk was back, but it soon disappeared when asked about the banner, well done the interviewer.

  146. DW Thomas

    Nov 30, 2014, 14:19 #62273

    Agree for once with Baddie, Cazorla had his best game in ages. Still only beat them 1-0, but a goo result. I'd ake that score line all season, but we know Wenger doesn't do conservative football. United look back to their intimidating winning ways. Now possibly other injuries too. Will we sign more than one player in the window? Not likely. The banner is a real show of the disillusion of the fans. Times up, only results matter now. Wenger betting on this team to have a really good season after the worst start in 32 years was a statement of extreme spin and the snake oil squad is back in full force. Most fans are fed up with 4th and going nowhere with the CL. A fully fit team in the hands of a better manager is getting closer to reality. Maybe only an inch closer, but the banner is a sign of more things to come.

  147. maguirsbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 13:57 #62272

    Maybe the confident mood was because of who we were playing, although it wouldn't be the first time that mattered against relegation fodder, and yes nearly coming unstuck again with the bar to thank. It was the usual display with all the usual thrown in, with the winner from Danny boy and that's all that mattered another three points and we're up and running again, and the smell from the gardens back, and wengerites reflect on anything? that'll be the day.

  148. Ken

    Nov 30, 2014, 13:47 #62271

    We benefitted from another ridiculous offside decision against Utd in the second half when Rooney would have had RVP totally free in front of goal to pass to. Nothing made of it in the mainstream media as Utd won anyway but despite this and Wilshere's hobbit headbutt the North Korean Gooner Fansite/ Untold Arsenal still attempt to make a case for us being robbed. These guys are comedy gold.

  149. Hiccup

    Nov 30, 2014, 13:46 #62270

    Kevin, good point about swings and roundabouts re refereeing decisions. However, the AKB's are only interested in the decisions that go against us. Forget Sanogo's offside goal. Forget Rooney being put clear through and an incorrect flag. As for Anderlecht, well we wouldn't even have been playing them had the referee given besiktas their penalty and sent debuchy off at 0-0. Even when TV technology helps to show decisions for the deaf dumb and blind, this is now seen as MOTD manipulating the white line to suit their anti Arsenal agenda.

  150. jeff wright

    Nov 30, 2014, 13:25 #62269

    There was a touch of the old one nil to the Arsenal about yesterday's game with Santi doing a reasonable imitation of a winger , a'la Geordie Armstrong , cutting in from out wide to deliver a high old fashioned style cross for Danny Boy to leap up and head home John Radford style . The lack of any goal threat from the relegation fodder Baggies helped Per and co to cope with keeping a clean sheet. The banner on display among our supporters advising Arsene to call it a day and say au- revoir though showed that this result was not fooling everyone. Wenger himself of course refuted the suggestion that his time was up blathering on about spirit and togetherness and insisting that he was staying put to see out his 24 million contract. Well,he would do wouldn't he . Later on at Old Trafford United , one contenders for a 4th place trophy , cruised to a 3-0 win over Brucies Hull with Van Pursestrings scoring one of the goals of the season and his all round show suggesting that his obituaries have been written a little prematurely . Liverpool another of our rivals for a minor league top 4 finish won, despite having played away midweek in Europe ,something is not right in all of this ,or perhaps some just got things wrong >?

  151. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Nov 30, 2014, 13:06 #62268

    The banner was great. Beating west brom for me won't change my mind that Wenger must go and I have held this view since 2008!!! Also if you notice the deluded akbs can't use the excuse of those fans who hurled the banner of not being "true" arsenal fans. What I have also noticed is that a lot of akbs have never even been to an arsenal game away or home!!! They our all fans that started supporting arsenal because of Wenger so they support arsene fc not arsenal!!!!

  152. divingrooney

    Nov 30, 2014, 12:46 #62267

    It was not even a camera offside decision, as it could not be even proven with camera angles. They had to draw imaginary lines across the pitch to prove that it was not offside. I still think referee's assistant got it right. In real time, you cannot get it better. I am not sure of Felliani decision, but the Everton and Anderlecht offside decisions were an absolute disgrace. Easily visible to everyone except Keven and the referee :D

  153. jjetplane

    Nov 30, 2014, 12:33 #62266

    Celebrations please. A tricky win away and the AKBs have really lost their voice? That banner just stays in the mind (of Wenger) like an iconic shroud. If we could have as many of them as the old white hankie treatment we might be on to something. Arsenal are 6th (where they should be) and it remains to be seen if the spuds or toffees will be keeping them company again. That really is how good the regressive project of Arsene Wenger is. You can tell by the length and passion of the posts that even the AKBs are unmoved by a couple of untelling wins. My local team are divebombing but you have to keep going ..... ha ha

  154. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 12:32 #62265

    Well done the fans who had the wenger out banner (or whatever you like to call it, it all means the same)and from the hardcore away fans too, but just like a lot of others haven't and weren't taken in by a 1-0 win over relegation fodder(again) there's no doubt there would have been a hell of a lot more of the like at the Emirates if it wasn't for the little hitlers with orders (I wonder who from) to not allow or confiscates them. It's just a pity there haven't been a lot more of them over the years and of late, but hopefully this is just the start and there's going to be a hell of a lot more in letting the old has been know what the fans think, until he eventually takes our advice.

  155. Dartford gooner

    Nov 30, 2014, 12:14 #62264

    No ox in midfield when Ramsey is playing that bad. Lucky boys with the banner, I take it Jamie was not there to lay them all out. Defence looked tighter, we will get a better idea after Wednesday.

  156. exiled&dangerous

    Nov 30, 2014, 12:10 #62263

    Was it just me, or did anyone else have flashbacks to Andy Linighan at Wembley in 1993 after Welbeck scored yesterday?

  157. Badarse

    Nov 30, 2014, 12:06 #62262

    Mike Collins, you are so wrong about Cazorla. He was the potential MotM from early on, and just maintained it throughout.

  158. GoonerRon

    Nov 30, 2014, 11:58 #62261

    Controlled and largely disciplined performance. More of the same please.

  159. Mike Collins

    Nov 30, 2014, 11:26 #62260

    Paulo75 - I couldn't believe that to be honest. Does Mrs Cazorla have the casting vote? Perhaps we should stick him out on that wing to put in crosses and draft in my auntie Agnes to try to finish moves, because she'd do a lot better job. Let's have a Cazorla-watch against the Saints. If he improves, fair enough, but so far this term he's been poor.

  160. Paulo75

    Nov 30, 2014, 11:18 #62259

    Mike Collins - Cazorla was man of the match yesterday, what are you on about?

  161. Mike Collins

    Nov 30, 2014, 11:08 #62258

    Agree with Kev as ever but the form of Ramsey and Cazorla (yeah, I know he supplied the key cross but he wasted everything else) is shocking. The former may have had his annus mirabilis last year and the latter shown his best when he first arrived but not recently. Well played, Daniel, however, and a few of the others looked on their game. Bring on the Saints!

  162. Unchives

    Nov 30, 2014, 11:07 #62257

    Good & accurate report.We deserved to win, although we almost came unstuck again. The main thing was the banner and from Wenger's interview after the match, he got the message loud & clear....he is under severe pressure now & he knows it.I don't quite know what we can salvage from this season,its going to be a long winter.