Turkish Delight… And Regret

Online Ed: Arsenal trounce Galatasaray to finish runners up to Dortmund



Turkish Delight… And Regret


There is a view that if Arsenal had played a full strength team in Turkey, they might have gained the six goal advantage required to top their group in the event of a draw in Dortmund, something that actually materialized. However, football isn’t like that. A six goal win away from home in Europe is practically unheard of, and even with a frontline of Sanchez, Welbeck and Giroud, I doubt Arsene Wenger’s team would have won by the required amount and Alexis Sanchez, for one, needs a rest.

In truth, Arsenal blew any chance of topping the group when they conceded a three goal advantage at home to Anderlecht. After that, a second place finish was practically inevitable. And so fans will hope for a bit of luck for once in the draw, and a last 16 tie against Porto or Monaco. Some think PSG are also beatable should they top their group ahead of Barcelona. However, if they can get a draw in the Nou Camp later today, I would fancy their chances against Arsenal.

Anyway, onto matters in Istanbul. The ‘Arsene: Thanks for the memories, but it’s time to say goodbye’ banner made its way to Turkey, but not past the Arsenal stewards who confiscated it outside the away turnstiles. The club’s justification for this would be along the lines that they believe the display of said banner would lead to trouble inside the stadium. This has been the justification for threatening the expulsion of fans holding up A4 print outs stating ‘Wenger Out’ if they continue doing so. The reality is sadly that the club are right, there is fighting between fans home and away over the Wenger issue. Freedom of expression – even non abusive messages requesting change – are simply not tolerated by Wenger’s loyalists, who will debate the matter with fists, giving the club an excuse to censor the messages they do not agree with. I wonder if the ‘In Arsene We Trust ‘ banner will be allowed further exposure in the light of recent events? Will fans be ejected for chanting ‘There’s only one Arsene Wenger’? The violence that results from the well-publicized factions between the supporters disgraces the club, and it is an indictment on the directors that the situation has been allowed to escalate to the current, ugly, level.

As for the game itself, if Arsenal played like this more often, there would be no calls for a change in the dugout. It was a polished performance with some sumptuous goals. Granted, Galatasaray are a poor side these days, but you can only beat what’s put in front of you, and this Arsenal did, with Yaya Sanogo at centre forward no less. Of the players with a point to prove, Lukas Podolski made the most of the opportunity. Joel Campbell was fairly peripheral (with the mitigation of a lack of playing time) and Sanogo non-existent. Aaron Ramsey scored two excellent goals, the second one unlikely to be beaten for Arsenal’s goal of the season, so sweetly was it struck.

It was interesting to note the fight and physicality demonstrated by Flamini and Podolski. Where was this spirit at the Britannia Stadium last weekend?

Due, we were informed, to the risk of aggravating injury and a yellow card respectively, Ramsey and Flamini were replaced at the interval. The game was won, and the idea of gaining top place was something of a pipe dream anyway. There was an argument for rested forwards to have made the trip and relaxed on the bench. I find flying an exhausting process, but I doubt very much Arsenal players go through the same pain to board and exit a plane as an economy class passenger. The club use a plane that has fully reclining seats and are doubtless waved through immigration and security. There sure isn’t any hanging around by baggage carousels or queues for boarding.

In defence, it was a pleasure to see Hector Bellerin demonstrate he is a two-footed player. After his nightmare against Stoke, it was good to see him put in a better performance. Mathieu Debuchy returned at right back, and has been sorely missed.

In the second half the home side rallied, and created a number of excellent opportunities, before Sneijder found the back of the net with a wonder free-kick. It was too little too late, and Podolski put things beyond doubt a short while later to make sure.

It was a result that will have done no harm to the psychological wellbeing of the team after the defeat at Stoke, but I fear this is another example of the club’s inconsistency. Excellent occasionally, functional at other times, and too often plain shambolic. No doubt that the visit to Istanbul was one of the better nights in recent times, even if, ultimately, it made no difference to anything.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

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  1. Ron

    Dec 12, 2014, 19:48 #63266

    MG - and they then put their childish strops and boorish behavior down to 'pressure' 'passion' and 'heat of the moment'. Truth is that nearly all of them are as dense as the players they manage. Id really like to see some of them work in situations of genuine pressure and stress, though i think they would only last a few fleeting moments. Youre right, it is sickening. Their behaviour and in exhaustible propensity to act like spoiled louts matches any of their worst behaved players. Without naming names either, there are at least 3 of those PL managers whose lifestyles off the pitch, if known in ordinary fields of employment would see them sacked or at least pressed to stand down notwithstanding how their teams were doing. Pre SKY days managers were hardly noticed, the odd quote to a paper might occur and many fans struggled to name them even. Now, they've become celebrity personalities in their own right and many of them absolutely love it, milk it and encourage it. The more the media coverage the higher the salary as they lurch from job to job. Ill give Wenger his due. Whatever he is as a coach now i don't think hes ever really courted the media to the same extent as many. Maybe hes as many skeletons in his cupboard as the ones im alluding too. I don't know. I get sick of seeing their names in the sports pages and faces on the TV (i got rid of SKY 4 years back so im partly insulated from their inane and puerile utterances) Most are of very limited ability yet make money so disproportionate to what they actually do, which really isnt much when you boil it down. Many would be on a basic wage somewhere if it wasn't for the mad, corrupted hyperbole of the industry they inhabit.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 12, 2014, 19:13 #63262

    Excter, Ron, you just have to read what these managers have to say about each other when the games are been previewed in the Saturday morning papers, if you didn't know better you'd think they were lovers it'd make you sick, later on that day they're pushing, shoving, slagging each other off and storming down the tunnel not shaking hands.

  3. jjetplane

    Dec 12, 2014, 14:06 #63240

    Ha ha Westie Wrighty is now you're best mate but let's be honest - if he could read and write like a good little tory he would be doing it at the Mail/Telegraph and I imagine Pardew is joining the Maureen/Fergie club in making lovely statements re the hasbeen because they all want him there until Arsenal really is no more. That is obviously what you want. Call yourself Arsenal Wrighty is one thick little plank in the Savage tradition and both are at the beeb for bemusement and no more but you find him a pearl of wisdom though he is a WOb but like Bouldie needs a pay check. Don't you AKBs do transparency?

  4. jjetplane

    Dec 12, 2014, 13:47 #63236

    RON Colin Bell, Bobby Pires. For me - that is football as art form. always like when you say football first, Arsenal second. Our first game of three and in is the big bang of our own little football histories.

  5. Ron

    Dec 12, 2014, 13:39 #63235

    Jeff - its as EG says, these managers superficially 'support' each other to bolster their own positions and to try and somehow influence Chairmen away from using their itchy trigger finger. For me, there's only one coach who seems remotely likeable and that Martinez.

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 12, 2014, 13:10 #63231

    Unchives, Ranchid, and the same Wrighty who very very recently agreed with Piers Morgan when he said wengers time was up.

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 12, 2014, 12:57 #63227

    jw, indeed and you could also imagine the dictator in a post match presser at 5.15 growling at the interviewer relegation? what relegation? I know nothing about that, even though it had been confirmed at 4.45.

  8. jeff wright

    Dec 12, 2014, 11:40 #63217

    Pardew is just playing mind games with his comments about Wenger ,the only person that Pardew cares about is himself. Obviously he sees parallels with Wenger and himself in the situation of some supporters at their respective clubs wanting them out .Pardew once criticized Wenger for having too many Johnny Foreigners in his squad and not enough Englanders .Ironically it is now the other way around . C'est la vie !Pardew's continuing support for old Arsene depends on how the game goes - he really is that shallow . If things go pear-shaped for his side , especially if due to some perceived injustice, then we can can expect to see the real Pardew appear,n there will be no more more Mr. Nice Guy once the ref blows his whistle for the tete a tete to begin.Like wise stressed out Arsene will be hoping for Galatasaray type defending from the bar-codes - if things do not go to plan,if there is such a thing a a We ger plan, then we can expect the usual arm waving and expressions of pained angst to be on show from Arsene when abusing the hapless 4th offical. These guys should be paid a bonus for ptting up with Wenger's nonsense.It's even possible that Arsene and Alan could indulge again in some hand-bags . Now that would be fun. What are the odds on that occurring Westie >? Anyway,those clever bookie chappies make us a whopping odds on 4/7 to beat Newcattle, well it is the Pantomime season . However,I won't be putting my money on that happening at those odds. Not with Wenger's home record this season.

  9. Ron

    Dec 12, 2014, 11:07 #63215

    Like him or not, I quite admire Pardew for the way hes not buckled at the Toon. Hes a fighter and thats one of the hardest jobs to keep i always reckon. Wright Phillips? Im glad Wright advised him as he did otherwise Arsenal would have been lumbered with another dead loss on high wages.Maybe Wright knew his Son was as useless as a headless chicken and should just milk the money udder?

  10. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 12, 2014, 11:03 #63214

    Westie: Ian Wright - pah! I don't know why we just didn't stick with Malcolm McDonald.

  11. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 12, 2014, 11:02 #63213

    There is no logic and reason in what Pardew has said. Finishing 4th when you have the 4th highest resources is not the stuff of 'miracles'. Some people need to grasp the concept of the manager's union. When Pardew says 'Lay off Arsene' he really means 'Lay off me'. As for Wrighty, just a couple of weeks ago on 5 Live he was saying he thinks it's time for Wenger to go.

  12. Badarse

    Dec 12, 2014, 10:40 #63210

    Gaz, you are so right. The thing is we can use examples willy nilly to endorse or prove a point. Yes there is history between both managers and Pardew isn't my favourite type, you'd perhaps say Wenger isn't your type, but when a person makes a statement you listen and see if there is logic and reason within the framework of what is being said. Some people have no credence whatsoever in my scope, but occasionally, just very occasionally, they might offer a tiny pearl of wisdom. As Max Ehrmann said in 'Desiderata', '...listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant-they too have their stories.' @Unchives Wrighty's boy was offered millions to sign for them, as much to get a good player as to stymie Arsenal and prevent them from buying. A calculated decision. Go to a club that might develop your career, or sign and overnight become a multi-millionaire. He was advised to choose the latter; I think many would give a similar piece of advice, wouldn't they? It carries no weight in this situation.

  13. Gaz

    Dec 12, 2014, 10:21 #63208

    You've got to laugh! If Pardew had criticised Wenger you'd have every single AKB spitting feathers and suggesting that he has absolutely no right to comment on him when he's not particually that good a manager himself!...

  14. Ron

    Dec 12, 2014, 10:20 #63207

    Morning Baddie - Llewellyn Bowen. Theres a name ive not heard for a long while (thankfully). He was the chap who thought he was a cross between Tom Jones and Charles 1st wasnt he? Westie lad - Wrighty and Pards eh mate. Im pretty sure those two luminaries havent been elevated as your new inspiration you naughty boy!! They're right about the public abuse though.

  15. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 12, 2014, 10:18 #63206

    As results and performances decline, the idolatry seems only to increase. The Arsene Wenger stadium... why not go the whole hog and rename the club after him? Only need to swap out a couple of letters.

  16. Rancid Polecat

    Dec 12, 2014, 10:17 #63205

    Calling certain supporters w*nkers doesn't mean he just means anyone who wants Wenger out per se. Sounds like he's referring to the behavior of some individuals. Isn't Wrighty a WOB himself? 'For the record the mere fact that Fabregas is at Chelsea when we had first option, don't care who but someone should be sacked,' he tweeted.'So disappointed with the amount of prize w*****s who are supporting the club I love. Wish I could meet them individually. Would be carnage!'

  17. Unchives

    Dec 12, 2014, 10:12 #63204

    @ Westlower, are you on about Alan Pardew who manhandled Wenger & bad-mouthed him not so long ago. Are you talking about the 10 year contract he got from Newcastle only to be almost sacked 2-3 months ago....and will be sacked before long. Great endorsement. In fact when they are both sacked they can have tea together in front of a log fire, where their contracts are burning nicely.

  18. Unchives

    Dec 12, 2014, 9:51 #63202

    @ Westlower, the same Ian Wright that recommended his son join Chelsea instead of us.....What happened to his son?

  19. Badarse

    Dec 12, 2014, 9:41 #63201

    Easy 24601, JAMIE is already standing by the Helpline in anticipation of a victory tomorrow. A good enough side Newcastle, full of confidence, riding the crest of a wave in terms of results turnaround, rested from midweek battles, arriving to defend and steal a breakaway goal/draw/win. Am looking forward to a balanced defence performance, Debuchy sorely missed, and the first win perhaps at Arsene Wenger Stadium. Whoops a few are choking on their Sugar Puffs. I suggest as a surprise Xmas prezzie for Ron, we have a whip round and hire a demolition crew. They can steam in to his front room, Llewelen Bowen can pop in and produce a taffeta and lace themed refurbishment, or perhaps it's a job for DIY SOS. Either way he can rename it 'The Home of Hairy Arsed Football', or just run with the earlier mode and call it 'The AW Hall of Football Purity.' Morning Ron, enjoyed the posting evening too, it was nice.

  20. Westlower

    Dec 12, 2014, 8:47 #63195

    Oh dear, even Wrighty is calling you WOB's prize w*****s!

  21. Westlower

    Dec 12, 2014, 7:53 #63192

    To whom it may concern? Headline in today's paper - LAY OFF ARSENE. Alan Pardew has told Arsenal fans to lay off Arsene Wenger and believes they should be grateful for all he has done at the club. The Newcastle boss insists that only Sir Alex Ferguson has achieved more in the PL era because Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho 'hasn't done enough yet'. Pardew goes so far as to say that the Emirates Stadium should be renamed in honour of Wenger. The job he did in that move across from Highbury, when they had all that debt and he had to be very careful with the transfer budget - it was a miracle that he kept them in the Champions League. I think everyone at Arsenal knows he's done a magnificent job.

  22. DW Thomas

    Dec 12, 2014, 2:03 #63189

    Just once I'd like to hear the manager and club say something true. Have some cojones. Wenger defending Jacks injury against those questioning him. Be great if someone, player or manger just said that they are in a job where everything is hyper criticized and that's what they earn ridiculous money for, in part. Give me $8 million a year and call me whatever you like! Problem has always been Wenger's ego that ballooned following the Invincibles season. A man that thinks of himself as an icon will never change.

  23. jeff wright

    Dec 11, 2014, 22:40 #63188

    MG, I'm somewhat surprised actually that impersonators and other satirical types have not latched on to Wenger's appearance mannerisms and unwitting humour,the unintended sort is always the funniest. Not since Comical Ali asked ,Tanks what tanks ? With American ones advancing toward him in the background has anyone person spouted so much delusional nonsense as Wenger does.

  24. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 11, 2014, 22:12 #63186

    Hiccup, nice one, Ron, don't worry you can always paper over the cracks.

  25. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 22:09 #63185

    Not for the first time have I said it, and it certainly won't be the last, (us Wengerites keep saying the same old, same old), but you are one funny fella Hiccup. Pity your missus can't see the funny side. It's goodnight from him, and it's goodnight from me.

  26. Hiccup

    Dec 11, 2014, 22:04 #63184

    Got it off to a tee Ron. You should see our living room. Fag burns in the carpet. Yellow stained ceiling. No curtains coz the curtain pole has snapped. I bought myself some time last year by splashing out on an expensive top of the range 80 inch TV. It looks well out of place to be honest. I've got no idea what I'm doing with technology, that I can't even get the bloody thing to work now. Waste of f#cking money that was. Gonna try and sell it off along with the TV in the kitchen that does actually work, but for some reason I never use? My missus kicked off yesterday and said get the bloody room decorated. I told her be careful what you wish for. I pointed her to examples of these cowboy decorators that could come in and make it worse. She fell for my bullsh!t. Wenger is such an inspiration in my life.

  27. Ron

    Dec 11, 2014, 22:02 #63183

    Great posting tonight from all of you lads. Its good when we generate a good atmosphere isnt it. COYG. As an aside. we all get on about Arsene but i get the feeling that Rodgers is the bloke in the media firing line to be honest. Lawro dishing out the stick. Others following soon. I think hes a real candidate for the bullet. His signings made AVBs at Tottenham look like roaring successes. I think Rodgers is a dead man walking there, even more so if Utd tonk them on the week end as i think they will. Good night guys.

  28. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 21:50 #63182

    Ron your front room is going to move into legendary status. People will talk of saving the rain forest and some bright spark will pipe up and say, 'Ah yes, but it's like Ron's front room with the rising damp...', and the moment will be lost. There is no end to what may befall us, global warming and your new fireplace with the imitation glowing coal embers, or a real wood burner could turn the conversation. A discussion of artists of the twentieth century might have a quip about your walls being satin or matt emulsion. It's when Arsene begins to explain the reason for a loss when the chickens will come home to roost, 'Yes, we showed a great spirit level to begeen wiv, and my puffa jacket had no undercoat, so we theenk the referee and the wallpaper was a put up job, but we showed good resolvite and pasted them for leetle bit time. I don't believe we were weak in defence, that is a garden job for de better weather, and really that is the neighbours concern not ours, and I don't theenk the wood panelling floor surface suited our quick passing.

  29. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 11, 2014, 21:45 #63181

    Ron, funny you should mention that we just did that, or rather the wife did, completely gutted the living and dining room, I kid you not, re painted, new curtains, new lights, wooden floor sanded and re varnished (got high off that) even down to new electric fittings, kept the leather suite though and TV. We now have a lovely bright new living room to relax in, the only problem now is that it's the same old same old Arsenal and past it manager that we have to watch in it.

  30. Ron

    Dec 11, 2014, 21:43 #63180

    Ha ha. Hiccup, that's funny mate. I can see you've honed that technique to perfection my friend. Theres no Mrs R now though. My lady lives in her own place. It avoids all the daily womanly pressures and allows me to get on with the important stuff of life. A good offering of yours though matey.

  31. Hiccup

    Dec 11, 2014, 21:33 #63179

    Ron, when the missus keeps moaning about you getting the room spruced up, just tell her you'll get it sorted after Xmas. She'll then go telling all her friends you're a great husband. When we get in to February and you still ain't got off your arse to sort it, tell her there's no value to decorating in the winter, and you will definitely sort it in the summer. She'll still think you're the best thing since sliced bread. When the summer comes, to be honest who wants to stuck in decorating? Just think f#ck it, the money is better off in your back pocket, and f#ck off on a lads holiday. Just say B&Q was closed when you went round. You might find this hard to believe, but for some amazing reason unknown to scientists, your missus will stil think you're serious about getting the decorating done. Rinse and repeat this process for as many years as you like. The big giggle about it all is when your wife's friends start telling her your taking the p!ss, but she still thinks you're going to get it done. There might be the odd tricky day when she starts to ask awkward questions. This is easily dealt with. Talk down to her and ask her if she's ever wallpapered a wall? If she still persists on pushing it, get really arrogant with her explaining you've emulsioned a thousand rooms in your lifetime. It's amazing how this sh!t works. Eventually, she'll get sick of the woodchip wallpaper and the artexing, but don't worry. She'll accept it for what it is, as there are more important things in life to worry about, like that black and white telly that needs replacing!

  32. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 21:27 #63178

    Evening gentlemen. I'd like to throw my hat into the ring regarding a very good Everton team of 69/70, but then dash it all in the following season. I have a diary entry which says, saw the Champions of England beaten by the future Champions of England-we took them apart 4-0. Brian Labone was a really good centre half, I think I got six Esso 1970 World Cup coins of him!

  33. Ron

    Dec 11, 2014, 21:02 #63177

    Hi Westie lad. Yes Ball Harvey and Kendall with Jimmy Husband adding some edge in that midfield. Very good werent they. Big Joe Royle up top. Morrisey on the wing. Little Alan Whittle to change and energise things when they needed it. 2 great full backs, Wright and Wilson. Labone holding the back together. West in goal. Top keeper he was. We ve always done well v Everton though havent we. I recall that 0-1 loss that season. maybe my 7th/8th game at Highbury that was mate. Happy days. We had the makings of a good side then but found it hard to score goals didnt we at that time. I think it was 69 when Charlie G made his debut (at least i think it was his debut?) at Albion. i was there for that and he scored. we won 1-0.

  34. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 20:32 #63176

    @Ron, I concur that the 69/70 Everton team were special. They only beat us 1-0 at Highbury on the opening game of the season but it was obvious they were going to be that seasons champions. Remarkably we managed a 2-2 draw at Goodison that season even though we only finished in 12th place with 42 points in the league. Everton also knocked us out of the league cup 1-0 in a replay after a 0-0 draw at Highbury.

  35. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 11, 2014, 20:24 #63175

    jw, great post, yes you can just imagine the fun those spitting image guys would have had with wenger, they'd have had a field day, and that's just his looks the sly grin and that hooter, imagine the accent, and all those idiotic quotes.

  36. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 20:23 #63174

    Good analogy, Ron. Good stuff from Jeff too. People making an argument, giving reasons for it and illuminating it via example and metaphor. God, it's not easy being a WOB, with all these obligations. You can see the attraction of being an AKB. They don't bother with any of that. They just have one, simple desire...

  37. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 20:16 #63173

    We can all sleep easy tonight because after all the debating over the past few years the answer has been staring us all in the face. Arsenal are just like Ron's front room. Sorted! Bertie Bassett was right after all? @Hiccup, Wengers price on being the next manager to leave his post varies from 16/1 to 25/1, but keep the money in your pocket.

  38. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 20:15 #63172

    Woah there people! maguiresbridge discussing artificial insemination, with cock ups all over the show, mummies and daddies, then there is E/G popping here and there, 'Cocks up pop?' This is a rum sort of evolution gentlemen. Look out, Bard is stirring in his coffin, and is licking his lips! Ron you need a team from The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists to do your drum up, 'Slapiton and Daubit'. A nice analogy to chew on.

  39. Unchives

    Dec 11, 2014, 20:11 #63171

    @ Westlower, Your like a father who takes their son to the park, teaches them all they know about football, however to reach the next level its not enough, then is then, now is now, the reigns must be handed over, Wenger's time is up and so is yours. I enjoy Badarse ramblings...but they are just that....im sorry.

  40. Ron

    Dec 11, 2014, 20:08 #63170

    JJ - Colin Bell. I swear the term 'midfield player'was invented due to that guy. The best ive ever seen. Only Bryan Robson has ever got close. A tank in the tackle, speed, heading ability, ran for ever as he had an engine like a Rolls Royce and they called him 'Nijinsky'( ask Westie if not knowing the name), ball control as good any forward, brave and scored approx 15 goals per season. The City side of 1969 - 72 was as good as any ive ever seen, though the Everton team of 69/70 was wonderful as was the Liverpool team of 86-88. Im glad ive always been football first and Gunners a close 2nd in priority man. Its allowed me to appreciate other teams as ive traveled around and lived in so many places all over this old Country of ours mate.

  41. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 11, 2014, 19:58 #63169

    Ron, and boy haven't the gunners been firing blanks, so much for all this IVF treatment and false pregnancy's over the last ten years, after all that time with all the embarrassments excuses and cock ups one lone sperm makes it through, thanks to the weakness of all the others and was lucky enough to get the job done and give us a new addition to the family. But still nothing has changed the family having experienced a new addition after all these years waiting want to try again and add to it, but it's way way to late for that, the bumbling old daddy is past it and has stayed on the job to long because after more cock ups and embarrassments all he has left are blanks and there's even not many of them. Even though some relatives aren't bothered and are quite happy with one new arrival in a decade and are quite happy to wait for another ten years for him to come again, and hope for the best, others are more ambitious and want more. Now the family have decided the only way to get more additions is to change the old blank firing past it granddad and seek out a young fit stud who is up to the job.

  42. Ron

    Dec 11, 2014, 19:50 #63168

    Baddie - good stuff mate. I reckon we ve all cycled, re cycled and re cycled, munched up, mixed up and re hashed every conceivable angle on here regarding the whats needed at the Arsenal conundrum, but you know mate, at risk of sounding trite i reckon it just comes down to a good old, need for a change and for no other reason, if only to freshen it up, reinvigorate it and re energize the whole shooting match. I know it sounds rash mate, but i see Arsenal as being like my front room. Last decorated from top to bottom in 2003, patched and spruced up here and there since, the odd change of furniture and curtains changed, though none of it done with a view to it becoming a lovely room again. Always with the eventual sale of the place in mind, yet never actually marketing it. So it goes on, still looks as tired as when i did the spruce ups and add on's of which none ever seem to make it more vibrant.In fact each mackle job makes the place worse. I know deep down it needs stripping back to the bare walls, the suite slinging out, the carpets tearing up and as for the TV set, changed 3 times yet still not a zippy one, it needs a scrap yard burial just to be kind to it. A total gutting is needed at Arsenal just like my room. Both need a new orbit. Both tired and neither fit for purpose. Both are annoying in their respective abilities to bore and look humdrum. Like Arsenal, people say, 'ooh its nice' when they know its **** e really and like me, they know a scraper , sander, hammer and drill is needed to alter its shape and enliven it. Its just case of me saying when and to stop hanging on to whats 'comfortable'.

  43. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 19:25 #63167

    @ Hiccup, I see it more as a popgun going off randomly at imaginary targets... Other teams lose games, POP! Other fans have wanted their manager sacked but now they're doing ok... POP! AFC lost games before Wenger... POP! It's not about winning... POP! You don't know how to accept defeat... POP! Aim the popgun anywhere and everywhere, just not at that very real, main target right in front of you.

  44. Hiccup

    Dec 11, 2014, 18:56 #63166

    Good hard hitting Paxman style questioning from Exeter. No surprise though to be met with a plethora of random odds? Not even interesting odds such as wenger to walk or the odds on winning the league in the next 3 years. When in doubt, just blurt out...

  45. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 18:41 #63165

    Evening Ron, very well explained diagnosis of the 'ailments' of what is wrong. I too see the same, or similar problems, as I also see the impatience of the younger versions of myself. However it is simple evolution rather than different animals. We are just continuations of the same root. For the angry young to be correct then what will follow them will also be so. They are all around, time waits for no one, and the selfie snapping, mobile phone chatting, coke guzzling, early leaving, 'tourists' and JCLs will takeover. In that fairy tale book westlower mentioned didn't it say the bleak shall inherit the earth? It is still a truth for people like myself though. Do I really give a hoot that someone I have never met, nor will do, isn't bothered with Arsenal? Why the bloke next door doesn't either and we are very friendly. All of life is a matter of perceptions, though there are some accepted truths/principles. It's why we have the word axiom to describe them. It is OK that we as individuals don't sing from the same songsheet. I can and do respect that. If I hear a view I believe to be wrong or too harsh, I offer my understanding of it through experience. If it doesn't resonate it is also OK. I will never make an apology for what I hold to be true, and as we all know and surely can accept, majority doesn't make an assumption, or view, or attitude the right one. Good post fella, still I do understand the angst as I have explained, and my Arsenal red and white spectacles will stay firmly in place, but are of Hubble telescope lens standard.

  46. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2014, 18:36 #63164

    Your old man's even funnier! are WESTLIFE still going?

  47. Patrick

    Dec 11, 2014, 18:27 #63163

    One of the many reasons I would like him to go is the embarrassment of flapping arms and the woe is me complex we have devoped in the last few years. Besides the multitude of tactical and football cock ups, this really grates me. Install fight and a never give in attitude, an attitude that makes an individual proud, instead of a victim personality and maybe this will help supporters associate with the team. It's arrogant and embarrassing to argue that it's brilliant to see youngsters come through and the team play lovely football (which is an absolute fallacy). I don't think man want wenger out simply on the grounds of not winning trophies. It doesn't help though!!!

  48. Bard's ol' man

    Dec 11, 2014, 18:24 #63162

    Ron you're being ageist. Im 105 and still going strong. I remember the days when all we had to eat was gravel and we slept outside, oh those were happy days. Men were men in those days. I blame Wenger for bring in all that foreign playacting in to the game. Waving your arms about like a big girls blouse, falling over like you've been shot, its ridiculous. Arsenal need to man up. Do you think we should try and sign Ron Harris or Peter Storey in the transfer window? I agree with that Westlife bloke. Every match we've lost since 1923 has been because of dodgy refereeing, its a conspiracy. I blame the introduction of central heating for all our injury problems, they're a bunch of wimps these days. Don't take no notice of my sons ramblings he was always moaning about something. I blame that Helen for messing with his mind or whatever she's messing with.

  49. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2014, 18:13 #63161

    But WESTIE SAM and Pardew are really quite good and the Toons saying **** off one minute is alright too - same with Hammers supporters. Neither of those two guys are as stuck up or prissy as your favorite uncle. Trouble is your uncle is a totally spent force who missed his real vocation. He really does not belong in football. RON I kicked off watching in mid 60s (listening to the Flowerpot Men) and am listening to Caribou, Aphex Twin and a bit of Royal Blood while I peruse you lads. Once a hipsterrr .... Gonna watch Lancing on Saturday and loved that City win (for Bell and Summerbee) so football is still good but Arsene FC are boring in the worst sense. Simple really.

  50. jeff wright

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:56 #63160

    Football and its supporters is by its very nature an irrational exercise in mass tribalism. It has always been that way and attempts to try and pretend that football is anything other is doomed to failure. There is no rule that says supporters can't become bored with an incumbent manager and would prefer him to be replaced by someone else . Of course there is no guarantee that the new manager would do any better but if you don't by a ticket in a raffle then you can't win it. The new man would not be overburdened with having to emulate the heroics of someone such as Sir Ferguson with Arsene's glory days well left behind in the mists of time at Highbury. Just the morose mediocrity of equalling, or bettering even , the fabled 4th place trophy faces the new incumbent at the Coliseum of non-cacophony sounds. The illusion of non-existent title and European Cup challenges should not present any problem for an experienced manager to emulate,or possibly better. This 'possibly better ' is the crux of the argument against Wenger,who despite his desperate absurd claims , that he will win the title in 2017, is not someone that is known for having the power of prescience and in reality no one really believes that he ever win any top trophies with us again. What we do know though is that he will carry on regardless pursuing his elusive dreams until the end of his contract and that this is just one big yawn inducing prospect for many supporters to have to face. The case for Wenger to go at the end of this season is overwhelming , he has divided the fan base for starters and he should have gone last summer ,but the 24 million on offer was too much to turn down and the FAC win had taken the not won sod all for donkeys years monkey off his back. So it was off just like that to Brazil to play beach-ball and earn a few more bucks talking nonsense on French TV. This was after a cynical trophy parade was held that Wenger had not thought worth the bother the last time that he won the cup 9 years before , and that was against Sir Ferguson's United ! The truth is though that Wenger is boring most supporters and has also become a figure of ridicule .It's a shame that Spitting Images is not still up and running. Wenger would have made a perfect puppet with that strange shaped head and face of his . The comical lines that the caricature of him could utter would be hilarious , just as his real ones are. A case of art imitating life.

  51. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:52 #63159

    I shouldn't have tried. Nobody can match Westlower's self-parody. We're missing Pat Rice - ha, ha, brilliant!!

  52. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:47 #63158

    Where would West Ham & Newcastle be today if their respective boards had given way to their squealing fans demanding Allardyce & Pardew be sacked? How much are we missing Pat Rice shouting his constant command of "go to the ball"? We must be getting close to fielding our preferred back 4 of Debuchy, BFG, Kos & Gibbs.

  53. Ron

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:36 #63157

    Baddie/Westie - good posts to read. Baddie, as you know mate the dark mid 60s were my intro to goonerdom (narrowly missed being a L'n Orient fan despite the pressure to be so!!)The thing is mate though i hear you saying that yr emotional tugs from the old days stay long with you and i can empathise with that view, today's fans from say the 80s to now apply a different set of value judgements to the Club, what supporting the Club is all about and what and how they perceive football and the players. Totally different World to you and me.Their fanaticism is of a different genre, its shaped by different criteria and romanticism doesn't come into it as it did for you and me. I think the root of the differences of opinion on here is shaped as much by you and they not being able to understand each others back drop to supporting today. As an older generation fan its voital to key into their way of looking at things. Its about winning, its about high prices and having a product to match the price, its about not being mugged off by Club spin and most of all its about 'cred'. Todays big Club fan wants cred vis other big Clubs and to their fans. Its like football supporter testosterone. Take it away and todays fan is impotent, firing blanks. Todays fan likes to get a hard on about his Club. The sight of red shirts and white sleeves alone doesn't even start it as it did for you and me mate. Like it or not this is the new way and Arsenal have abdicated from the PL orgy and are standing there like spare dicks looking on. The modern fan feels like he shad his shirt taken from him. The old 'there's more than winning to it' is fine, its laudable but unfortunately its as redundant as a factor as fighting a war with a sword and an axe. Its this that you have to key into to see the point of the seething fan masses as they use Wenger as the lightening rod. He knows thats his job too. This is the modern game. Much of it i detest as you know and im happy to have taken a back seat now from it more or less. 40 odd years of doing the fan thing has seen me off, but its no good trying to say that all of these lads demanding change are misinformed or lack understanding or are oblivious to the real value of things Goonerdom. Theyre as informed as any old fart who watched Joe Mercer et al. Much of what we were fed with in truth years ago was spin and bull s h i te though our old romantic ideas of football kept us quiet and acquiescent. Many of us used football hooliganism to express our dissatisfaction. Today its not so prevalent. The new breed are smarter, quicker, they see whats wrong and shout it loud. I quite like the way they do it, not all of it of course but getting stuck into a Club thats taking them for granted isnt necessarily wrong all of the time. With all due respect, such as yourself and Westie need to 'modern up', take off the old red/white blinkers and see the reality if youre ever to understand the angst on boards like this.

  54. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:36 #63156

    @Badarse, the narrative here is symptomatic of the narrative under Wenger. Some seek to address the symptoms, some the cause.

  55. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:25 #63155

    Alsace, you'd expect nothing else from a player who gets picked regardless of form, he might not have as much support for his old fraud if he was only a bit part player and keeping the bench warm for months on end.

  56. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:20 #63154

    Badarse and Westlower make an interesting partnership. Differing but complementary styles. Both a bit goal shy. One calls for a pass from the other a lot more often than vice versa. What would a co-authored comment look like? Maybe... "Bloody 'I Want It Now' Generation. Nobody left moaning comments on the Online Gooner between 1953 and 1970. Now think about that, read it again, absorb it, go away, come back, read it again, print it out, screw it up and swallow it, regurgitate it, then read it again. You just might learn something. Chum. "

  57. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 17:11 #63153

    E/G, constantly I read on here people offering the interminable advice of not repeating the same thing and expecting different results. Wise enough in it's general employ, but why then do we have the same plea for Arsene's head, and the same complaints towards those offering an alternative attitude. Does that not constitute much the same thing? Then again, as Reginald said, perhaps it is our fault that we are a poor offering of a team. If we caused the problems pre AW, then possibly we have since. Jack had to go back to the island to save the rest of the plane crash victims marooned there, where can we go? You cannot have a one-sided coin, but don't discount John Lock, surely he should shoulder some of the blame for finding the hatch?

  58. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 16:45 #63151

    @Unchives, On reflection of your earlier comment that I'm past it and holding everyone back, you could well be on to something. I checked back on my Arsenal supporting years and was shocked to discover we had 34 barren years of not winning a trophy prior to Wengers appointment. Well the bleak years were certainly not Wengers fault because we didn't know him then but it must be down to me and Badarse because it was on our shift. The penny has dropped Unchives, it must have been the supporters fault that we won diddly squat in those forlorn times. Why, oh why couldn't I see that for myself? @Bard, If you read the Racing Post on a daily basis your wisdom will increase tenfold and you'll be a reborn whatsit? There's plenty of room in the snake pit. Remember this good piece of advice: ALWAYS BACK WINNERS!!

  59. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 16:29 #63150

    jj we should hold a truce, climb out of the trenches and play a game of footie, you old warhorse, you. No man I hear you say, or did you ask-yes in No man's land. You can have a slice of my Stollen, and I'll have a piece of your hot Xmas pud, but only if you have brandy sauce to go with it? I could pull a cracker, then I could pull one for you, ooh heck scarper, Missus coming. 'The Scarperer', Brendan Behan, good book, not up to Joyce's standard it's true, but she works Thursdays down the chip shop. Here is a bicycle story just for you, as an extra virgin olive branch, cold-pressed. In Southern California some years back, my wife and I borrowed the family's bikes. Mine unfortunately had a wooden fixed carrying box behind the saddle. Coming down the hill to freewheel into Vorn's supermarket I had forgotten about the box. I tried to dismount well before the entrance. I cocked my leg up and over, and promptly got it stuck on the box behind me. My wife thirty yards behind watched in surprised bemusement, unaware my leg was caught. All she saw, hurtling down the hill, was her hunky bronzed Adonis of a husband doing an Eros on the bike. Synchronised swimming? This was it on two wheels. Some of the locals clearly thought this was a 'free expression' moment from those across the pond. I tore into the car park too fast, (had been distracted so hadn't braked), and whizzed up to the entrance just as my high top lace came unhooked. I nonchalantly dismounted and treated my wife to a, 'I know I'm a plonker but don't give me away, please.' Over here jj, mistletoe!

  60. Bard

    Dec 11, 2014, 16:25 #63148

    Exeter; Ouch!!! Anymore posts like that and you will be banned from every Arsenal site. No chanting or protesting for you mate. You need reeducation and I know just the man to take that on, Jamie. He will have you posting garbage and incoherent nonsense in no time at all. For wisdom and moral guidance I suggest you read the Racing Post. For David Ickeisms read Baddie's surreal ramblings. And remember when we get beaten vanish into the ether until we win our next game.

  61. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 15:56 #63147

    CGO interesting regarding Sellers and Milligan. Now don't let David hear me saying this but the brain is all chemistry and electrical impulses, how on earth could you explain MARCUS' meltdowns otherwise? We are all chemically imbalanced and sometimes with acute lop-sidedness humour results. I think all the best comedians are crazy, look at Bard and Hiccup for starters, I exclude myself as I've been told often enough-generally by jj-that I am just not funny, so 'Not Guilty, M'Lud.', mind you neither is he, but he is hilarious all the same. radfordkennedy I had a baptism of the first five years of my life in sedate West Ealing, and though a London accent it was more refined. I moved to Bermondsey and lived just off the Old Kent Road for the next five and my accent changed quite dramatically, but not a John Bly. I am an accents man, trouble is my wife thinks all my accents are very similar and sound a little like a happy-go-lucky Indian, not to be confused with a miserable-sounding one. Have read all Milligan's books, loved him to bits, and Sellers was quite simply remarkable in all artistic aspects, loved those films too. 1968! When you and CGO were being blooded as Gooners I was clutching my ticket for Wembley. A dull and overcast day, and the result killed me a little. Remember I had waited thirteen years for this moment, thirteen years of doing virtually nothing as a supported team, so a good place to come from. I remember watching wee Geordie taking a corner near me and just being amazed at him actually being there, at Wembley, in a Final, wearing those famous white sleeves. It seemed unreal. I wore a Red cravat and a white titfer, with long hair streaming out from underneath, what a sight, ha ha. those were the days indeed, Mary Hopkin.

  62. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 15:37 #63146

    Latest odds from the snake pit: Ramsey to score anytime v Newcastle 2/1; AFC 4/7, draw 7/2, Newcastle 7/1; Liverpool 6/4, draw 12/5, AFC 7/4: AFC top 4, 4/7. AFC to win FA Cup 9/1. AFC to win ECL 33/1.

  63. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2014, 15:08 #63145

    EG exactly mate. WESTIE slithers on here gives it the 'you knee jerkers, bleaters and so on and then goes into his 'I fought in the war/s so rabble like you .....' and then wonders when he catches something off a Johnny Seven (remember them?) and BADDIE for all your words you no understanda very poor irony nooooo? Is vy I use da (sic) Stalag 13 Loved that! The thing is we really must keep mentioning the War - espec when it pees orf the uvver lot mush .... All is clear/all is bright - unless you're an AKB.

  64. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 14:44 #63144

    @Westlower, in life it's generally not a good idea to deal with a setback by continuing to do the thing that led to the setback in the first place. That tends to lead to more... setbacks. And why are you so keen to see dissenting views silenced, why do they piss you off if they make no difference?

  65. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 14:40 #63143

    Life is a pair o' docks, or so it seems. Those who ape and mimic German language attributing it to the AW 'supporters' actually act like 'kamp kommandants', with their cries of, 'Off with his head'. Very funny. Have my OnlineGooner Virtual Xmas Gifts ready, and one's for jj. You think it's a case of Stella, but I know you are a bitter man, so a case of London Pride heading your way-all the way from West London, where the heart is. jeff as you are an 'up to the minute' man, a nice presentation pack of Hai Karate aftershave and spray deodorant. When you spray be careful of the CFC's that you release, remember they are a successfully small team-and no Germans around, gesundheit.

  66. Unchives

    Dec 11, 2014, 14:16 #63141

    @ Westlower, what is happening now is pressure has been applied, if they, Manager or Players don't up their game, they have to accept responsibility and expect a backlash. We all work to deadlines and standards....Its time to deliver.....Judge us in May......Which MAY, over the last 8 seasons didn't he mean? The Gravy train is over. MAY TAKES A LONG TIME TO COME AROUND HERE!

  67. radfordkennedy

    Dec 11, 2014, 14:15 #63140

    Charlie George Orwell...1968 for me as well mate,against Blackpool in the League cup I think it was 4-1 I'm not altogether sure.but from that moment on the game was up and I was hooked,I don't get to sentimental about Highbury but there was something very special about night games there.....Badarse I always imagined a wordsmith such as yourself to speak like John Bly the antiques expert,but as you know Milligan and Sellers where comedy geniuses to me 'two way stretch 'is still one of my favourite films along with 'im alright jack'

  68. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Dec 11, 2014, 14:13 #63139

    Aaron Ramsey has made it clear that the team are in full support of the manager. That support will not last 1.3 nanoseconds after his replacement by the board. Professional footballers are and must be pragmatic. Tuesday's first half was something we have not enjoyed at Arsenal in immediate memory - fun. The fact that we didn't have or take with us the resources to bury our opponents in the second half and top the group speaks volumes. I wonder whether a banner expressing undying love and loyalty for the manager would be banned by the club.

  69. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 11, 2014, 13:59 #63138

    jj, forget about sheets of A4's there's not enough room, so think of all the messages of love, support, and understanding and all the hugs and kisses the wengerites could send their messiah on a bog roll.

  70. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 13:55 #63137

    @Bard, There's probably more truths in the Racing Post than the Bible? @Hiccup, Some adults can deal with set backs, others can't. "Fool if you think it's over."

  71. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 11, 2014, 13:26 #63136

    Gaz, don't you mean yippie a corner's been won, they very rarely come to fruition either.

  72. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2014, 13:25 #63135

    BARD you are total magic and you too HICCUP! I love also the idea of lee KFC to print 'Grandad we love you' A4s to wave about with one hand while the other records the glorious moment. Perhaps as at any extreme religious event they could have those great roll down banners of Mein Scrawny Neck (kill them all!) Stalinist type banners while Goonerettes in a North Korean stylee wipe all notions of a friendly bobby police band off the earth. Then we can say there is more than just winning when you have already won? When the Arsene FC Volk are dancing in red and white mountain meadows while on every front their tired little soldiers are trounce in all the stategic battles. WEEStIE will be in the middle of it all, squealing (his word) away 've vent down vighting' (sic). Anybody else up for a bit of Puccini though imagine OGL weeps in a dark room to WAGner. Arsene Wagner. You could not make it up. ps Nasri heyheyhey ... scoring in games that matter which makes dear little bearded Aaron's goal a nice enough hit but improbable if it had been an actual competitive game which Arsene FC actually had to WIN duh....,.

  73. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 11, 2014, 13:09 #63134

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned from ‘Team America: World Police’ – it’s for God’s sake don’t be the first to stop clapping when the boss is present.

  74. Bard

    Dec 11, 2014, 12:50 #63132

    Ahoy fellow shipmates. I have just got back from Turkey where I was briefly held in custody but the local police for waving a banner that said "Arsesole out". Its a complicated. My aunt Elsie knitted it for me but I foolishly didnt check it before waving it around. Aunt Elsie is dyslexic as you probably gathered and it should have read 'Arsene out". As you can imagine it took me a while to blag my way out of that one. The Arsenal club officials in Turkey wanted the maximum penalty but in the end good sense on the part of the Turks won the day. Generally I am against flags and banners criticising a regime as are the club who, and I have this on good authority, been taking advice from North Korea's ministry of dissent. Those wishing to purchase season tickets will in future have to pass the loyalty test. This will involve chanting 'We love you Arsene' for a whole weekend and refer to him as Chairman Wenger. The evenings will be spent watching old DVDs of Arsene at his best. Sadly as its over ten years ago most of the DVDs are of really poor quality. While I have been away I notice Westie is back with more pearls of wisdom from that bible the racing post and Baddie's router is on full power, nothing like thrashing a second rate foreign team to bring back the faithful. I definitely think we could win the CL sometime in the next 5o years. Incidentally Aunt Elsie got an Asbo for her part in the glorious cock up.

  75. Hiccup

    Dec 11, 2014, 12:44 #63131

    And so the final transition of those that remain in the AKB camp is upon us. No more blaming refs. No more blaming financial fair play. No more blaming the injuries. No more 'who better is there.' No more 'let's wait til May.' The excuses and nonsense have been exhausted to death. The pot of excuses has run dry. So all we are left with now is "there are more important things than winning?" That's fair enough. If you don't get upset at United stuffing us 8-2 then good for you. At least we won't have to listen to any more ridiculous excuses for these humiliations. Exactly the kind of fan arsenal want to fill the stadium up with. 60,000 crash test dummies who don't give a sh!t.

  76. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 12:34 #63130

    @Unchives, Ted Drake was a bit before my time as I started off with David Herd, Mel Charles, Vic Groves, Jackie Henderson, Jack Kelsey, Joe Haverty, Jimmy Bloomfield, Billy McCullough, Alan Skirton, John Barnwell, Tommy Docherty,Danny Clapton, George Eastham & Geoff Strong. You may wish to place a bet to WIN but please be aware an each way bet on fields greater than 16 runners pays out on the first 4 home. Sponsors like 'their' teams to play at the top level, i.e the Champions League and FA Cup winners Arsenal fulfill all requirements & have done for 17 years. As previously stated a full review of the club's status will be made in the summer, regardless of banners, protests & placards. Why spend the next 6 months pissing off everyone who doesn't share your disruptive views?

  77. Barnaby

    Dec 11, 2014, 12:24 #63129

    I have faith in Wenger losing to man u, Liverpool, Chelsea, city and stoke away, all the other teams we usually make it a hard earned 3 points hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  78. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 12:12 #63128

    Unchives, I shall give you a run-out then, good to have strength in depth-we know about that one, don't we? Romance? Well life would be a dirge without it, and it comes in so many ways. A good friend, a classical man who loved Bach, could not see any beauty in opera, especially Italian-too romantic for him. I understand that, because we are all wired differently, but whilst really enjoying Bach I could and have cried at Italian opera. Guess I got the best of both there. And why this rush to get somewhere? The enjoyment is all around, you just have to stop looking, and start to see. @jeff a newspaper is black and white, but remember is read all over. The drive and impetus given to sport, especially footie, is naturally to win. The thrust of the post was that there is much more to it than winning. Much more to being an Arsenal fan too of course. E/G I was entertained on Tuesday night, so sorry you weren't, but as Bertie Bassett once said, 'It takes allsorts', but then perhaps you were?

  79. Unchives

    Dec 11, 2014, 11:44 #63127

    @ Badarse, with you and your Cat (Arsene - very strokable)and Westlowers, romancing in the past, will not get us anywhere. Having played against Ian Wright, it would be such a shame to leave me on the bench, however Ted Drake is more up Westlowers Street....I scored more than eight in a game!

  80. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 11:33 #63126

    I agree with the point of your post, Badarse, but in this instance the (small c) conservatives with regards to AFC are quite obvious. Also, if we agree that football is about entertainment and not just winning, then repetition is not entertaining either.

  81. jeff wright

    Dec 11, 2014, 11:07 #63125

    If football is not all about winning then why do so many go 'nuts' when their team wins something? Actually the purpose of football IS about winning,the team that scores the most goals wins a game. The team with the most points wins the league or same points better G/D or what not. So winning games and trophies in football is the purpose of playing it. When it becomes about showing profits for shareholders , with the major one being paid £3m for supposedly giving the football club financial advice , with the manager saying that he is happy to finish second in the league for the next twenty years and it's about how you play the game,blah,blah,blah, then the cretin demands a big pay rise before he signs a new contract, while supporters have to pay more to watch his teams try to win not second but 4th place every season, then a feeling of disenchantment and dissatisfaction is bound to prevail among some supporters . I can't see how anything to do with the current regime at AFC has anything to do with football, most of which these days is poor fare anyway . Some fast track bullying against lower sides such as Galatasaray is used to try and make things look better than what they are in the same way that mutton can be dressed up to look like lamb. Moyes United's implosion last term saved Wenger's scrawny neck and this season it looks likely that Rodgers attempts at his own supposed 'tactical genius' replacing Suarez's actual football genius will do the trick.If not then Wenger will be like a man in a canoe stuck up a creek without a paddle. It's only that 4th place finish and the dosh from it that has kept him in his job,and not some idealistic mission he is on to save the soul of mankind . You couldn't make it up.

  82. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 11:00 #63124

    Unchives, Tony the B-liar, might have said Clem Attlee was also passed it, but he passed like a Bergkamp. The other dangerous criminal only ever passed the parcel. And please don't be so unkind to my big brother in future, he would always make my first eleven-you might earn a splinter in your bum.

  83. Unchives

    Dec 11, 2014, 10:50 #63123

    @ Westlower, Very romantic response, however you miss the point with regard to "FOOTBALL TODAY"....it no longer costs two bob to get in. Sponors are the majority funders to enable success ie WINING! The top teams are the top teams because they WIN and they don't charges as much either. Frustrating the paying fans by not doing the job you are paid for £21 million)is not entertainment. Like Wenger, you are passed it...step down your holding everyone back. By the way....The Racing Post...I think I will place a bet to WIN!.....LOSING ISN'T ENTERTAINING MY FRIEND....NOT IN THIS GAME!

  84. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 10:47 #63122

    Who are these conservatives E/G? Let me know and I'll send a copy of the Daily Worker, whoops, I mean the Morning Star around to them. Actually, the amusing thing is this is perhaps one of the most conservative of countries, in the rich world the most conservative, I believe. So Tories are everywhere. Interesting thing is I have relationships-good ones-with some, equally, I won't stay in the same room as some 'socialists'. The thing is this country is drenched in conservatism. The other evening, a woman who has known of me-never known me-was talking positively of the Royals and my lip twitched, and I began dragon-breaths. She was amazed and surprised about my stance, (am so bow-legged, and with loose fitting jeans so much hangs down), and the conversation led to other things. She was shocked to learn of my other inclinations, (with these legs I can lean at a 60 degree angle), and when she offered her allegiances I nodded sagely, (I have nodded, Parsley, Rosemary and Thyme before, but only when I listen to Simon and Garfunkel), and I said, 'I know', (in my best Sybil voice-'Ooh, I know!), to all she said. I knew her very well, she knew me not at all. Here is the kicker, she saw my badge and asked if I was an Arsenal fan, and admitted to being a Sour. My wife shot me threatening glances as I began my usual diatribe, (all delivered in my best Bluebottle voice). So in answering my own question, 'They're behind you!'

  85. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 11, 2014, 10:27 #63121

    Westlower - a good friend of mine a bit older than me went out for a while with Spike Milligan's daughter. He told me a story about a time when Peter Sellars was at the house. Let's just say some of their inspiration may be thanks to 'advances' in chemistry...

  86. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2014, 10:16 #63120

    There's more to football than winning, but going around and around in circles isn't part of it, and so should be stopped. And given the disaffection continues after a victory, it's quite clear that disaffection isn't about 'losing a game', as the conservatively minded section of the fanbase attempt to belittle it as. The disaffected have already achieved something by getting the issue out in the mainstream media, which has upset those for whom the priority is a reassuring sense of constancy. The trouble with 'Leave your protests until the end of the season' is it's too late then - it simply becomes 'wait and see what he does in the summer transfer window' and on we go. The conservatives know this, of course, which is why they suggest it.

  87. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 11, 2014, 10:11 #63119

    My first Arsenal match was in 1968. My Dad took me - and I couldn't see a blinkin thing. Hooked, though.

  88. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 9:27 #63118

    Correction: Apologies for my typo, should have read 37 years, not 47. I'm old but not that old! Now that Baddie, he really is old. Not too many know about Bluebottle, hey Min?

  89. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 9:10 #63117

    @CGO, Can you not grasp the context that Wenger will NOT be leaving his post mid season. Doubtless, the disaffected will continue to squeal every time AFC lose but apart from upsetting fellow Gooners you are achieving zilch! Please don't insult me by labelling me a supporter of Arsene FC & not Arsenal FC as I've been watching Arsenal play for 47 years before AW turned up, yourself?

  90. Mike

    Dec 11, 2014, 8:45 #63116

    I quite enjoy the CL. It gives a sense of where the best football is being played and there is some fantastic football on view with the worlds best players whom you would otherwise not see. I saw Suarez score a goal last night.... remember him - he is now a kind of bit player for Barca. I also saw Gervinho doing the exactly the same as he did for us - having mesmerising runs with no end product - he still can't finish. The fact of the matter is though you can name probably three out of the last four of the competition before it starts. They are the usual suspects - Two Spanish teams and one German. The fourth place is up for grabs. However, to those who say this competition is meaningless - wait until we are not in it and then see what it means. BTW, Ramseys goal must be up there with one of the best goals I have ever witnessed and I have seen a few in my 50 years

  91. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 8:33 #63115

    Yes CGO, but in a Bluebottle voice.

  92. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 11, 2014, 8:25 #63114

    Westlower – can you not grab the CONTEXT of the negative feeling? It is PRECISELY because we support and love our club so much that we despair at the current situation. At the risk of annoying many due to its repetitiveness: WE SUPPORT ARSENAL FC, NOT ARSENE FC AND WE CANNOT GO ON WITH THIS FARCICAL MANAGEMENT. Baddie - do you talk the way you write?

  93. Badarse

    Dec 11, 2014, 8:23 #63113

    And more 24601, football has given me the world. In the same way Wink Martindale explained to his sergeant who thought he had caught him playing cards in church, football is part of my life's almanac. All, mirrors life. I too have won a few times, but invariably lost, even in a good season. I think back to young men I played with and wonder if they are still around, or shuffling wrecks of those bright young things. One of my last games a pal came from London to visit, came to the ground and watched as I scored the first four goals, (delete and insert any figure you feel more comfortable with), three weeks later my knee was shattered. I even think back to that moment on the pitch, and guess what? Now it doesn't hurt as I feel the impact! The fight backs, the collapses. The passes, the goals. Watching our real heroes, your ones and mine, Frank, Charlie, Bob-when we were gay blades, with the world at our feet-oh boy, and how I was going to change it. Teaching my son, and grandson how to use their left legs in my coaching. On family picnics I get a buzz out of three generations comfortably stroking a ball about, all using both feet equally well. Immense satisfaction. And who am I? (No breaking into song fella), just an ageing go nowhere, done nothing chap. On the conveyor belt rattling and humming, (no singing), towards the abyss, too close to the edge for comfort, I guess. But those terrace moments are always there, ready to flood and drown me with double thick helpings of supreme nostalgic memories. Friends I stood and danced with, now I dance with strangers on odd occasions at the club, and more often in front of telly screens in pubs and clubs, and in different countries. Magical goals, travelling on match day, home or away. Big matches, bigger personalities of players, the biggest club. The most perfect decision of my entire life, to become an Arsenal boy. If I had my time over, I would crawl over broken glass if need be, to sign up to be a fan of the Arsenal. In virtually every dealing throughout my existence, they are the one thing which has consistently given me back more than I have ever given. Good old Arsenal.

  94. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2014, 7:49 #63112

    Extract from an editorial in today's Racing Pst Sport: I can think of many things more important than winning. The feeling of togetherness that binds groups of fans. The joy of seeing a young talent reach his potential. The fun of away trips to grounds you've never been to. The Ramsey 30-yard screamer. Football is about giving your life an extra dimension, about diverting your attention from the unpaid bills and that mystery knocking sound from somewhere beneath the car bonnet. If it was just about winning we'd all support the best teams and then realise they're no happier than the rest of us (exhibit A: Arsenal fans) and then we'd fall out of love with the game because even the good teams lose sometimes. Because, contrary to what Howard Wilkinson once claimed, football is absolutely about entertainment.

  95. Edmund

    Dec 11, 2014, 4:00 #63111

    If the purpose of the banners is to make known the fans unhappiness with Wenger, it's job done. All the fighting between Arsenal fans reflects poorly on us. The Spuds give more respect to their underperforming team. The board will not get rid of Wenger as long as he delivers the Wenger 4th place cup. If he doesn't it will make it difficult to get top players. Just look at the problem LVG is having at MU. Ironically if MU succeeds in getting back into the CL spots, it may help the board overcome their fear of changing the manager.

  96. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 20:47 #63110

    Oh yes MG t'was 1982 when last we started a season so poorly .We finished 10th in the table that term Liverpool won the league in a canter and Watford finished 2nd .Yes that's right Watford! Drowning men clutching at straws is my view of the euphoria displayed by some over last night's win in Turkey . They have obviously gort short memories though and forgot that we have already beaten the Turkish side 4-1 this season and Danny Boy's hat-trick against 'em even had some supporters mocking United for selling him to us.Whereas clever Arsene had stitched up United by flogging them a dead donkey in RVP. If a week is a long time in football then two months must be an eternity.You couldn't make it up.

  97. Gaz

    Dec 10, 2014, 20:41 #63109

    Good win last night and Ramsey's goal was simply brilliant. Sad truth is though I never really enjoyed any of it which is par for the course with most of our games nowadays. Once again we managed to finish second in a group of four we were top seeds in which you have to say is some achievement! Anyway it gives Wenger and his barmy army of admirers yet another chance to say a corners been turned when the reality is we've just done exactly the same thing we always do...

  98. Captain Frank

    Dec 10, 2014, 20:41 #63108

    In the interest of balance it's worth reporting that the person with the In Arsene We Trust flag had his fair share of abuse and threats of violence from time to time over the last few years when he was placing the flag pitchside. It's not only the "Wenger loyalists" who will debate the matter with their fists. Sad, but true.

  99. jjetplane

    Dec 10, 2014, 20:31 #63107

    All this poetry. Imagine if Arsene FC (banana republic) won a match that actually mattered. Jervinho seems to be having fun since he got away from 'he who is frightened of dissenters.' Where is WESTie?

  100. Lee afc

    Dec 10, 2014, 20:21 #63106

    well spoken Jamie.... I suppose, for me I would categorise the negatives as damaging, pessimistic and at times pathetic but for me and the likes of westie, badarse, yourself etc.... It boils over into a tad of feeling and emotion towards the club that we love.

  101. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 10, 2014, 19:50 #63105

    jw, since 1982 ? now don't be reminding his disciples of that, they just wouldn't want to know, and anyway the majority of them weren't even born then. 82 the Falklands war was it really as far back as that? was that an example of another dictatorship, if so we know what happened it.

  102. jjetplane

    Dec 10, 2014, 19:49 #63104

    BADDIE a Tory! well I never ...... Think he's more Blairite with that spin after he lost the last 2/3 posts on here. Very professional backtracking though. Wholly agree there RON Arsene Fc is just like the present government. Arseneknewbest nice posts.

  103. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 19:42 #63103

    MG - theres validity in that 66492. Project youth was as i saw it, AW casting a barb at Chelsea in particular but also Real M and their galacticos experiment. It was him saying to the World, "look, i can do it on a shoestring". Yes, there had been a stadium move etc and all that brought with it, but ive always thought that the ground shift validated and samctioned a deeply held ambition of Wengers to show that his way could work. Ordinarily its a laudable quality but when a man sees it fail and then to persist with the same aim and method is borderline stupidity. As ive said before though on here, we ALL bought into it at one time and its shadow is partly why we are as we are now. He used the ground shift to disguise his aims, a bit like this rotten govt falsely uses recession to feed its sinister aims by crushing people by cuts and propogation of the fear mentality that Badarse mentions. Its all designed to keep you in yr place and AFC in its own relatively tiny way, does the same thing. It happens at all levels of society,from the work place upwards. Blame Badarse for this post. He starts these wider topics ha!!

  104. JAMIE

    Dec 10, 2014, 19:36 #63102

    Lee afc-It would be great if we did that,but the WOB's would go mad.They only believe in free speech if it's one of their own spouting their mouths off. AMG's and AKB's supposedly support the same team yet are worlds apart in their characters.Every single Wenger out person I have come across is highly opinionated,very loud and normally has a short fuse.I will give them praise for their passion,yet there is too much bitterness and emotional lack of self control for me to say they benefit the club.So are they good for AFC certainly not though I do find them highly amusing after every defeat when their heads turn bright purple their eyes pop out and they look for trouble with the Pro-Wenger's,now that's what I call pure comedy.

  105. Lee afc

    Dec 10, 2014, 19:36 #63101

    No Jeff....posting anything to grab attention.. It's your forte eh.

  106. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 18:52 #63100

    I have never claimed that I wanted Wenger to stay .As for kettles and pots I will leave it to you to worry over what they say to each other .

  107. Lee afc

    Dec 10, 2014, 18:39 #63099

    Hey Jeff...... POT, KETTLE, BLACK...

  108. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 18:32 #63098

    lee KFC , TH14,Denis and whatever,you were claiming that you wanted Wenger out on here the other day now you want to hand out 10,000 A4 pamphlets to urge folk to support Arsene . It seems that you will just post anything to try and attract attention.

  109. Unchives

    Dec 10, 2014, 18:16 #63097

    @ Lee afc, Its A4, and Jamie cant afford 10,000 leaflets. Further, the police are looking for him and his brother for Arson at the metal works near the seven sisters.

  110. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 10, 2014, 18:00 #63096

    I truly believe the dictator in his perverse way didn't/doesn't want to win the group, he'd far rather do it the hard way so his ego could be massaged by meeting and beating real top top class opposition (don't laugh) just to prove a point that he's always right, and so he could stick two fingers up at everybody and tell us all he was right all along even after eighteen years.

  111. jjetplane

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:59 #63095

    Now who's face is looking a bit poached. Could not make it up.

  112. Lee afc

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:58 #63094

    Hey Jamie....I've just printed off 10,000 "WENGER MUST STAY" a4 print outs.. Do you think that's enough for this weekends home game ?!?!?!

  113. Roy

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:55 #63093

    Sadly Kev, the last sentence of your report says it all. And if there are those out there who cannot accept fair and honest non-abusive criticism of the manager and are prepared to use their fists in that cause, they should hang their heads in shame - along with anyone who hurls personal abuse at him. But if Stoke - type performances and beatings against the other big sides continue, change will be on the way like it or not.

  114. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:42 #63092

    I d like to see Mr Machiavelli interviewed for the Arsenal job instead of his impersonator that's in the chair right now. Its a given that the the real Mach man would have an imperious hatchet midfield enforcer or two in place, every match. A centre back with unambiguous instructions about what to do with the likes of Peter Crouch and a striker who would know precisely when and how to put Shawcross in the ground. Badarse - anybody whos life or work type/pattern was touched by or reached into the miners strike in 84 has seen 1st hand what the sinister powers of the state and the media together can do, especially as they flaunted their powers brazenly and proudly in that episode of state shame. This board isnt the place but boy, the things i saw as an outsider finding myself within it back then which happened to those Yorkshire miners still seems too staggering to recount. Almost like a fiction in fact. One day Channel 4s archives (miner supportive) must be released, yet alas i suspect they're will be no record of them. The genie s been out of the bottle for decades for them who've troubled themselves to look. That and 'security initiatives' spawned by 9/11 and the ulterior motives which that event facilitated have put us where we are today. The ordinary man has indeed swallowed it all willingly.Dumbed down schools will ensure it stays that way too. Anyway, we digress. lets stick to Arsene out/in!!

  115. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:41 #63091

    The whole gerrymandered malarkey of the CL midweek TV show put me off it years ago Ron. I'm still surprised though that some take these non-event games like last night one's seriously. All this easy group or not so easy one contrived attempt to add supposed excitement to the bore fest , or getting carried away with goals scored against a poor side with nothing to play for, is just one big yawn. By the way last time we beat the Turks 4-1 was on October 1st Danny Boy got a hat-trick we then played played Chelsea on the Sunday ,I watched the game on holiday in a pub in Tenerife and we lost 2-0 .So obviously these Euro results do not mean much when it comes to Prem games. Anyway . here is to better luck against the bar codes on Saturday night . You could make it up

  116. jjetplane

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:41 #63090

    Totally on the ball ANNALoUISe my first thought if we read as we do it's like proto-Pinochet and a crackdown on those looking for justice. Now I really hate Arsene FC but trust this is a positive accident (the meaningless win over Gala - could not beat them when it mattered even with some 'big guns') and business will resume and this unsavoury, nasty dictatorship is removed for the good of Arsenal. Visits from the goon squads - muppets.

  117. Badarse

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:39 #63089

    Arseneknewbest, I bow to greater knowledge. It doesn't surprise me one iota, I was only suggesting it was guesswork, and you have cleared up that belief. We are generally of a similar ilk I find-most are, but some enormous elephants seem to trample around the room whenever a posting exchange takes place. Arsenal fans who kind of occupy my corner of a vast field see much that I do. That is a given. Others are just some way off in a separate part of that same field. I readily accept the frustrations and irritations which submerge us all, and are not wished for, and it's natural to speculate on a way of improving the situation. As stated before even if I concurred with the causes in absolute fashion I would not advocate an insurrection to oust AW. It is that simple. All I can offer is experienced observations as counter points to the accepted status quo exhibited on this site. I believe my route to goal is correct, naturally, as others wouldn't, who think a differing course is the right one. That too is easy to comprehend, and totally acceptable. There shouldn't be a need to rubbish an individual for their views. Let's hope times improve. Peace buddy.

  118. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:20 #63088

    Badarse - chill big man. Your reputation as the most erudite and deep-thinking poster on this site is not in any doubt. It's a fact that violent fan groups and club owners collaborate on a number of nefarious issues in the countries I mentioned. I have watched hundreds of games in Argentina and still regularly follow things there including the unsavoury links between barras bravas and clubs. So it ain't conjecture my friend.

  119. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:18 #63087

    Jeff - Yes, the CL is but a charade. We re both making the same point i think mate. I find it quite boring and always have.It improves a bit once those ridiculous groups are done with i accept. Even the annual hammering we sustain betters those pesky half cooked group games ! The European Cup was a once great trophy with a glittering prestige which players would have considered themselves privileged to have won just once. Look at it now, the same cliques and titan Clubs save the odd 'rogue' Club expect to get to the final and more often than not do. Its a procession just like Formula 1.

  120. Badarse

    Dec 10, 2014, 17:04 #63086

    Arseneknewbest, I think your perspective is seen through a kaleidoscope mate. First reply-No, I am out of my shell like any cracked nut, and have posted some things vaguely resembling coherent big people-speak. Second reply-You are probably right, AFC stooges are plausible but extremely unlikely, I was being kind, and wanted to focus my response on the important aspect. Third reply-whichever country you cite, and you may be right, is purely supposition, you have no inside information, or omniscient knowledge of any sinister and Machiavellian chicanery some people/organisations may employ. Fourth reply is too difficult to respond to as you admit it's just your view. I accept your view and the premise it's based on as it seems logical.

  121. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 16:57 #63085

    Ron, the problem with this Champs League is that for most clubs it's more important to be in it for the following season than it is to try and win it in the one they are playing in. Once the group money is in the main objective has been achieved. Stan has this season's but not next yet and pie in the sky dreams of winning the thing this season will not replace the pragmatic view of qualifying again for next season as being the main priority . Wenger took that view last night when he rested players for Saturday's tussle with the bar codes,a game I suspect will be a bit tougher than last night's stuffing the Turkey was.

  122. GoonerGoal!

    Dec 10, 2014, 16:50 #63084

    Stewards can attempt to confiscate banners and cards, but if there are 100’s of them it will turn into an impossible task, and what they cannot do is silence our voices. All it needs is a three or four non-swearing, non-offensive, chants going virtually non-stop for 90 minutes to get the message across. I like ENOUGH! ENOUGH! ENOUGH, ENOUGH, ENOUGH! Anyone got more?... WENGER OUT! KROENKE AND GAZIDIS OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  123. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 10, 2014, 16:43 #63083

    Hey badarse - have you been drinking Kool-aid (or Oval-tine)with all of those eggs? Is being a pun-meister the only way to get yourself out of your shell these days? Anna-Louise is of course wrong to talk about Arsenal stooges paid for by the club etc. etc. so why suggest otherwise? That sort of stuff doesn't even happen in Italy or Argentina (where there ARE real and sinister connections between clubs and their posses), let alone N5. It comes down to a misplaced loyalty in my view, and an unwillingness to accept that someone who was once able to manage a club can now, sadly, no longer do so. Some perspective please.

  124. Nick T

    Dec 10, 2014, 16:40 #63082

    Given the fanbase is hugely divided right now the club need to make statement regarding ANY banner being brought to the ground unless it is a statement of fact e.g. trophies won. I can understand their reasoning that it could (and has) incite crowd trouble but exactly the same could be said of anything pro-Wenger right now. As for the game, didn't tell us anything new - we'll lose games we'll win games but never/hardly ever when it really counts.

  125. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 16:05 #63081

    GR, Rodgers is unlikely to play strong sides in the Ropey .Last night was his last throw of the dice in the big bucks league and it could impact on the game v United with their players having had a longer break between games this week... Wenger rested players last night for the Turkey shoot getting points in the Prem to get stay on the magic roundabout in Europe next term is the name of the game.

  126. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 16:03 #63080

    Gooner Ron - Hi mate. I suspect that you're right re Liverpool. Ive a hunch that they would sooner be out and done with the lot of it by February too. Looks like Everton are giving it a good go and im pretty sure that Liverpool's own sense of misplaced superiority wont allow them to give the Europa Cup as good a go at it. They appear to think theyre too good for the Europa, silly as that might be. To be brutally honest mate, i wouldnt have been averse to AFC going into the EL. Its an unfairly maligned tournament here yet one that Arsenal are equipped to do well in, unlike the CL charade they play out each tedious year. Doing well in the supposedly lesser tournament can give a Club its pride and a real purpose back and create a platform to progress from. Its good to see Everton doing their very best in it.

  127. Badarse

    Dec 10, 2014, 15:55 #63079

    Afternoon E/G. Just to ink in the outline a little, we as participating adults have endorsed, by tacit approval, a systematic control over the individual. The genie is out of the bottle as too many gazed at their navels and surreptitiously turned a blind eye to the progressive endeavours of the power men-and women, over the years. That power base has accelerated to a point virtually of no return-perhaps we have even passed it. The upshot is we now exist in a climate of anger, where holding a banner can be seen as instrumental in provoking a violent reaction. It is sad, but harshly true. A banner will possibly promote fisticuffs within a stadium, so the authorities can silence people on that premise by confiscating it. Tragic, but it is a reality. The banner will be forced outside the stadium, and then it will be the turn of the 'Met' police exercising their heavy-handed prerogative by taking it down. Somewhere else, or something else needs to be considered outside of authority's iron like grip. Still as I wouldn't hold the banner it isn't my concern. Anna-Louise is on the money in my opinion, it's just that experience has taught me which battles to fight, how to fight them, and when.

  128. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 15:52 #63078

    Jeff - i think that if they really wanted to genuinely breathe some oxygen back into football again, both euro wise and domestically, they would abolish all this 2nd to 4th rubbish and do it smartish. It wont happen of course but all forms of the game have suffered as i see it as a result of the euro authorities money driven decisions all of which have been happily acquiesced in by the equally corrupt and money driven Clubs such as Arsenal. They can extend entry as much as they want but all theyre doing is strengthening the exiting cartel of the few Clubs who take turns winning it. Its like an old gentlmens Club that Euro scene.

  129. GoonerRon

    Dec 10, 2014, 15:47 #63077

    @ Jeff - "As for Liverpool they can now concentrate on trying to on trying to get 4th in the Prem." what, by playing Thurs-Sun in the Europa League? I think I'd prefer to be in Arsenal's shoes.

  130. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 15:23 #63075

    Bet City would have loved to have been in our group. As for Liverpool they can now concentrate on trying to on trying to get 4th in the Prem . With the dodgy seeding system changed it will be tougher next season for Arsene if he does manage to get 4th again but full credit to the old master of illusion he can still fool some of the audience,not all of them though because many have worked out how he performs his tricks . The old chicanery and sleight of hand with stooges in the crowd clapping on cue is not working as in times past.

  131. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Dec 10, 2014, 14:55 #63074

    bet Liverpool and man city would love to finish their group like us.

  132. CT Gooner

    Dec 10, 2014, 14:17 #63073

    Nice one Jamie, you've got to be one of the best wind up merchants! That or certifiable, my money is on the yellow van is right behind you...

  133. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Dec 10, 2014, 14:07 #63072

    I have just heard that arsenal had stewards in Istanbul telling fans not to bring in any banners that have any negative words towards Wenger??? So we our the only club that has stewards that travel to away games loooool. YOU COULD NOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!! What is this a dictatorship. The club is now acting like a tin pot rogue state. This is a joke but one I expected , Wenger seems to be the owner of the club, it is unprecedented the power and authority he has I don't even think Red nose had this much power??? David Gil had more power I'm sure about it. In what business does an employee interview perspective CEOS??? Unheard off but not at arsenal. We may as well call it Arsene fc SMH

  134. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 14:01 #63070

    Johnny L - They were fighting at Stoke the day we lost 3-1 there in the FAC. 2010 i think it was. Police Dogs everywhere. It was more 'handbags' than fighting in truth.I didn't go last Saturday but i suspect it wasn't much of a 'fight'. Usual media over reaction.

  135. Hi Berry

    Dec 10, 2014, 13:56 #63069

    Jamie - perhaps if the cost of attending a game at the Emirates didn't prevent many of the supporters you want to be there from going the atmosphere might be better?

  136. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Dec 10, 2014, 13:17 #63068

    Again you can't criticise Wenger as he is GOD !!! What a total joke he is immune from any type of faults or mistakes WELL IN THE ETES IF HES DELUDED DISCIPLES!!! You are so right if a person wanted to bring in a banner that inflates Wengers ego it would be allowed immediately. Won't that banner cause offence to the folks that want him gone or is it only a one way street hmmmm ok I get it, use dictator tactics to suppress any dis scent. You could not make this stuff up!!! Also that result against Anderlect has now cost us big time. 3 goals up and to go on and draw smdh!!! We will now draw a usual suspect and get spanked over two legs. We can't beat the top teams over two legs as we don't have the defensive intelligence or tactical discipline to do a job over two legs. Also look it was a good win against Galatasary but it was against Galatasary lol.

  137. Johnny Lynch

    Dec 10, 2014, 13:09 #63067

    It's not the first time Gooners have fought each other .. proper supporters .. those without double barrelled surnames or working in the media .. will remember when Gorgeous George sold Lukic for Seaman .. The North Bank fought each other on the night Man Utd spanked us 6-2 in the League Cup .. The difference that time of course was that George Knew, the club was ours and the players cared. Arsenal are long gone as a community club . Wenger , even if he stepped down would take up a cushty executive position. He's going absolutely nowhere.

  138. jeff wright

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:55 #63066

    The diminutive Turkish delights with absolutely nothing to play for were easy meat for Arsene's tippy tappy tactics ,we saw the real side of this team though against Stoke and other sides in the Prem this season . So what did the win amount to last night in reality ? We finished second in the weakest group in the tournament down to tossing away a 3 goal lead against another of the worst sides in the CL,Anderleacht and at home. Pod and Ramsey's goals were well taken efforts but I we don't see many from them like that against the better sides and there was no physical threat from the Turks either to make life difficult .They also missed a sitter early doors that had it gone in might , against this current side, have caused panic as did Stoke's early one last Saturday .Anyway,it all means diddy squat as regards the Prem where sterner tests await and dithering Arsene cowering in the dugout will have to make some better calls than he has done so far this season,which unless some have forgot ,is our worst one for results in the league since 1982. Wenger can run but he can't hide from the reality of this. If he can turn this around and win his 4th place spot to allow him to beat the likes of Galatasaray again next season is what the real purpose of our season is again about and talk of winning the European Cup is just more smoke and mirrors nonsense to try and disguise this fact.

  139. Charlie George Orwell

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:46 #63065

    Will the real Aaron Ramsey please stand up.

  140. JAMIE

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:43 #63064

    Wenger showed again last night what an absolute genius the man is when the chips are down.That's four wins in five and Arsene showing that his squad players are more than up to the task.I don't think we should fear anybody though obviously the hyper moaners jeff'spuddy'wright,maguire'stamford'bridge and Hiccup'Hotspur' will always try and put a downer on events.Also we should all be feeling sorry for poor old jjetplane who last night had only one solitary goal to cheer to us gooners four.Watching the tremendous support from the Galatasaray fans despite getting hammered it got me thinking how great the Emirates would be if it was only filled with proper gooners and akb's instead of all these wobs,glory hunters and tourists.I'm sure those at WOB TOURIST HQ will have something to say about that.

  141. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:39 #63063

    Badarse, you call Anna-Louise 'very young' and 'naive'... and then basically agree with what she says. If those putting up polite banners like the 'Thanks Arsene' one are then met with the kind of response that your friend Jamie frequently advocates, it then follows that the protest can no longer be peaceful, even though that's the original intention. So peaceful protest is silenced in that way, by forcing a change in its nature.

  142. gn23

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:32 #63062

    Take nothing away from the result/performance, but as others have mentioned, pressure off and we performed. The Ox and podolski have surely played their way in for Newcastle?! How cazorla starts in place of either is beyond me. And good to see Ramsey play well, fantastic goal.

  143. Badarse

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:22 #63061

    Anna-Looise, a strident post but forgive me in saying you sound very young, I hesitate to say naïve. Yes the establishment deploy these tactics, in conjunction with all of the power players to subjugate, whether it be the military, the church, the media, government poloicies, or as you say the police. However there is a real need for safety and avoidance of the likely hotspots. Sadly the silence of the club, their detachment from the fans-which hasn't happened overnight-has allowed the degeneration of sensible protest. We find ourselves in a situation whereby the security 'power-gland' specialists can invoke almost any draconian restraints-mirroring our society, and the world's manifestation of 'running scared'. Peaceful protest sounds so lame, but it is the one card left for those who wish to, can still use. Power to the people!

  144. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:06 #63060

    Chris - True mate but it wont stop those who do still have some faith in Wenger and the Club re stocking themselves with renewed belief that everything is still yet going to be all right again and that Wenger can be King of all that he surveys. They would do it even had that team of Turks last night been a team of turkeys. Its incredible how after so many years and so many games like last night following off the back of some debacle, that Wenger gets himself out of jail. He put the 'T' in teflon for sure, until the next abysmal defeat of course, then the cycle starts again.It would be funny if it wasnt so tedious.

  145. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 10, 2014, 12:05 #63059

    Confiscating the banner even at an away CL game, his henchmen are becoming as big as cowards as their dictator, thank fully there's still plenty of prem games to go or maybe the dictator will come to some arrangement with them also, oh i'm sure the old frauds fans will be allowed to keep their one arsene banners alright and don't be surprised if they start printing them and giving them out free on match days especially in the young guns and family enclosure sections such is wengers dictatorship. I wonder was he brave enough to lift his arse off the bench in hell, if he was maybe it was because he doesn't speak the language. It was a good performance against what has to be said a poor side, and not all teams are going to roll over and let their belly be tickled and allow us to play like that, (as we've already witnessed) but a good performance with some great goals, Ramsey's of course being the pick, easily the best, goal of the tournament so far and will be if/when we go no further. At least it can be said we've got something out of it at last after eighteen years. It's amazing how we play with the pressure off, now if only we could play like that when we come up against good teams (and the stokes of this world) and when it mattered and there was something to play for.

  146. Anna-Louise

    Dec 10, 2014, 11:51 #63058

    AJAAFC (66440) These 'people' are more than likely Arsene FC stooges, agent provocateurs paid by the club to infiltrate fan groups in order to deliberately antagonise real and very frustrated fans into displays of discontent and even violence. This then gives the club a seeming valid excuse to ban any fans wishing to exercise their lawful rights to protest, whilst also discrediting those fans in the eyes of the wider public. It's a common tactic employed by the police to put down public protests against government policy and corruption. It's what happens when dictatorships get control and that's exactly what we've got running OUR club.

  147. chris dee

    Dec 10, 2014, 11:35 #63057

    Fight and physicality demonstrated by Flamini and Poldolski?Against a second rate team who were going thru the motions even I could have looked like a combination of Patrick Vieira and Peter Storey. One thing is certain, wins like this against second rate opponents with no motivation mean Jack S**t in the real world of the Premiership and the later stages of the Champions League. Our defence was again shaky and totally lacking any semblance of organisation, lucky we were not up against the those giants of world football Stoke.

  148. Mike

    Dec 10, 2014, 11:28 #63056

    Maybe Aaron should shoot with his wrong foot more often

  149. Badarse

    Dec 10, 2014, 11:10 #63055

    AFC headed east-er, to fry the opposition with an eggscellent performance, and an eggsciting first thirty minutes. The way Pod poached his first, then the second had them scrambling about, and the third just flew into the net like a boiled egg might fly from the nether regions of a poor Thai sex worker. Arsene's little soldiers dipped in and out competently and the yoke was on Galatasaray when Pod cracked his second. And O m' lettes face it, we beat them and whisked to a fine victory so much so that me ringue me own bell happily. Al bu men showed spirit, and I Advocaat not many eggspected that result. A cracking display and remember as one of Bard's hairy-armed bints might say, you can't beat a David Hemmings 'Blow Up', or a good Turkey gobble.

  150. Barnaby

    Dec 10, 2014, 10:52 #63054

    Podolski's left foot is a lethal weapon, he should get a licence for it hahahahahahahahahahahhahahah

  151. N4

    Dec 10, 2014, 10:50 #63053

    THe issues with club, fans, board, wenger et al... why has the club not come forward and explain to fans in an open way where I think fans would have like that whether it's negative or not! When the questions are asked to Wenger he replies in an arrogant way!!! Are fans not allowed to questions the club or Wenger mediocre displays we have been witnessing?!!! The lack of communications from this club is unbelievable....Does Wenger also control the outgoing communications with the fans because he surely doesn't communicate with us...!

  152. Alex

    Dec 10, 2014, 10:41 #63052

    Anfield soon coming up. Liverpool are mediocre. But Wenger lost to Moyes United and you can bet the specialist in failure will get another trashing he usually does. 3-0 Liverpool.

  153. Alex

    Dec 10, 2014, 10:29 #63051

    Wenger is truly the specialist in failure. He failed to top a group with crap belgian and turkish teams and the german relegation candidates. This proves his level of management. He is one of the worst managers in the league. How is this guy anyway worth 8m a year. He is conning of Arsenal.

  154. Ron

    Dec 10, 2014, 10:25 #63050

    Hi Kev - Yes Galatasary are a truly rubbish team but it makes yu wonder why we don't employ the obvious shooting ability there is in that squad more often. Is shooting v decent teams not allowed? Mystery!

  155. Martyn

    Dec 10, 2014, 10:22 #63049

    Quite a subdued analysis considering a performance that was fresh and uplifting following the debacle on Saturday. Yes, we played against a poor Turkish side but scoring four goals away in the champions league is something to celebrate. Ramsey's goal was simply magnificent. Ironically, I'm not sure a 'stronger' Arsenal side would have achieved this result. The side last night played with freedom and expressed themselves accordingly. I hope that 'resting' some of our first team players is really a wake up call to some who, in all honestly, should be dropped.

  156. Harry Barracuda

    Dec 10, 2014, 10:05 #63048

    "Freedom of expression – even non abusive messages requesting change – are simply not tolerated by Wenger’s loyalists, who will debate the matter with fists" You expect this to be taken seriously after that disgusting and embarrassing abuse dished out at Stoke?

  157. TJ

    Dec 10, 2014, 9:59 #63047

    Sensational goals from Ramsey and Podolski. Ramsey's second was one of the all time Champions League goals. Galatasaray are a weak team but it would be nice to get Ramsey back to his best and maybe put Podolski in the team a bit more- this guy has a better goals to minutes played ratio than Solskjaer and Michael Owen in the Premier League, and from the wing too!

  158. Unchives

    Dec 10, 2014, 9:54 #63046

    Very enjoyable game, brilliant goals. However the only regret is are we strong enough to win it, or will we strengthen in January to at least try and save the season.Would the team have upped their level if it wasn't for the current pressure we have put on them....I don't think so!

  159. AJAAFC

    Dec 10, 2014, 9:51 #63045

    Who are the people prepared to defend Wenger to the extent of trading blows with fellow Gooners - find the whole thing puzzling to the extreme...

  160. divingrooney

    Dec 10, 2014, 9:49 #63044

    Usual crap from onlinegooner. Against Stoke had taken over the game in second half, and Anthony Taylor was pissing his pants for disallowing that goal. He promptly yellow carded every Arsenal player in sight, and got luck with Chambers, and sent him off. He has done this before at Emirates stadium, when he failed to send off Szczesny, and then sent off Koscielny, to atone for his mistake. You blame Wenger, I blame Taylor as much. Wenger was responsible for a miserable, shambolic first half, but at least got it right in second. Taylor was crap throughout the game, heavily biased against Arsenal.