Eternal Truths?

Lessons from 1970-71



Eternal Truths?


I am currently about halfway through reading a new novel by James Durose-Rayner titled ‘I am Sam’. It’s about the twists and turns in the life of an Arsenal supporting football documentary maker, who is making a film about the 1960s/early 70s Arsenal midfielder Jon Sammels. We will be interviewing the author and hopefully Jon himself in due course (the latter more probably in the printed fanzine itself), but in the meantime, reading the book has provided me with an excuse to look up the odd video on YouTube and the ITN news archive website.

One particular one I caught yesterday (above) suggested to me by James caught my imagination, because, in the light of Arsenal’s recent win at Manchester City (and the attendant change in tactical approach), it was interesting to hear Arsenal captain Frank McLintock as a studio guest on ‘The Big Match’ the day after a particular game in late November 1970 had been played. This was of course, the season in which the Gunners went on to win the league and FA Cup double. Arsenal had been at home to Liverpool and triumphed 2-0. After highlights of the game, presenter Brian Moore handed over to Jimmy Hill who chatted with Frank.

The conclusions from the exchange, in 2015, is that although in many senses, football may be a very different game now, on the pitch, aspects of it remain very similar, in terms of what it takes to win a game and how a successful team can come together. Anyway, should you not have time to watch the video clip above, here are the choicest bits of the exchange between Jimmy Hill and McLintock…

Describing the build up to his team’s opening goal, in which a one-two between George Graham and Jon Sammels ended in the net…
Frank McLintock: The Arsenal forwards do a lot of challenging here, putting the [Liverpool] defence under pressure.
Jimmy Hill: It’s indicative of the Arsenal method, the way in which you put defences under pressure to win the ball. I don’t think sometimes the supporters really understand this because they look upon you as a hard grinding side, but you have to win it before you can play that kind of football [referring to the sumptuous opening goal]
FM: It’s very difficult to keep these tackles [going] in if you’re diving from one player to another. You have to get it done collectively by your forwards or else you’ll just get shattered after 20 minutes. And you can see by that [first] goal, there were about three players involved. There was Peter Storey, Jon Sammels and George Graham and eventually, we won the ball, a good one-two and we finished up with the goal.

Asked about whether manager Bertie Mee has a problem in not knowing his best eleven due to a luxury of choice, McLintock responded that he did not see it as a disadvantage “in the long run. It can be [a problem] until eventually they find the perfect blend, which must be there. And it may just happen by accident. Maybe somebody gets injured and another player might come in and it might just be the perfect blend.


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227
comments

  1. jjetplane

    Feb 02, 2015, 13:06 #66007

    HICCUP & EG major league deconstructionists! Derrida (nuvver French player) would love it. The Art of Danceable Persistence.

  2. Badarse

    Feb 02, 2015, 10:02 #65990

    Whatmputer? my co is wrong with I tlong and hard about typing that E/G but as vocabulary heme in earlier posts I thought it apt, in a funny way. understanding was a central thought Still friends?

  3. Westlower

    Feb 02, 2015, 9:34 #65989

    F.I.O: Early betting on Saturdays game at Lane: TH 11/5, draw 13/5; AFC 6/5. Arsenal to win PL 40/1; Top 2 15/2; Top 3 EVENS; Top 4 2/5. PFA Player of the Year, Alexis Sanchez 4/1.

  4. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 02, 2015, 9:20 #65988

    Of course it's not a 'conflict', Badarse, but certain individuals on here get shown up or exposed, and it's only in their own head it's not happening. Thanks for correcting my grammar on a throwaway online comments section. You'd have thought your recent experiences would've taught you a little less self-regard and a little more humility, but no.

  5. WALLIE

    Feb 02, 2015, 8:26 #65986

    This is tru. This geezer at the match in front of me who I haddunt seen befor looked round at me and gave me a disaproofing look just cos I started to pass round me bong to my crew. So I got him in a Siameese death hold. Choked him off oxigen until his eyes popped out all over this bird beside him. She screemed like a bra wearing WOB so i gave her a few slaps to calm every thing down. Then this other geezer said some thing like leave it out so I karrarty kicked him in his throwt and threw his wenger hating puss filled bodie onto the pitch. You shud have seen all the claret!!! Course, the stewards were to scared to say nothing and left us alone.

  6. Badarse

    Feb 02, 2015, 8:15 #65985

    E/G this is only a conflict in your own head-Hiccup is not cutting through the crap! You are in the same lifeboat, at the stern, chuckling that you have your own water supply as you pee into a plastic cup. Oh it's phenomenon-singular. My computer keeps jumping from the line I am writing-it is taking ages to type, delete a few words from a middle of a sentence, and retype. What is wrong guys?

  7. JAMIE

    Feb 01, 2015, 22:26 #65983

    After watching the borefest of Chelsea v City and the the brilliant total footballing display of the Gunners it's amazing how some idiots are calling for Wenger's head..Who could possibly do a better job than the current boss,yet we still have to put up with these mongs even at today's game a guy sitting in front of me,not a regular I have to add was verbally abusing Wenger all the game and shoving other fans.Until suddenly someone accidentally cuffed the fool across his ear,he then went off to complain to a steward who kicked him out for abusive language causing a commotion.Why do this anti-losers bother to attend?

  8. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 21:10 #65982

    @Exeter, The league hadn't been formed 1n 1886/87 but we won 7 of our 10 friendly matches. 1893/94 saw our first involvement in league football when we came 9th in Division 2, Liverpool came top. We improved in 1894/95 by finishing 8th. It was a long wait until Herbert Chapman arrived in 1925 but we still didn't win anything until 1930/31. In 1929/30 we finished 14th before success finally came our way the following season when we scored 127 goals & won 28 of our 42 games. The rest as they say is history.

  9. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 01, 2015, 21:00 #65980

    Hiccup is more Lenny Bruce. Hancock is way off. Keep cutting through the crap, Hiccup. Never mind their discomfort.

  10. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 20:35 #65979

    John F, £10-15M might get all three now, but wouldn't take the money. All three could/should make it. Hiccup, Billy Joel's 'Shades of Grey', have a listen. Take it down a level buddy. We are all in this gigantic lifeboat, with water all around, and none to drink. Don't take the Hancock role to heart.

  11. jjetplane

    Feb 01, 2015, 20:00 #65978

    Had already mentioned posts back that Akpom (see Coquelin) is not interested in hanging around at a trophyless club who make money through exhibition fuseball. Almosy as comical as watching ex Chelsea wingmen taking Bayern apart. Oh the joys of football in a bubble. From snipe to sarcasm without a hint of the Augustan. What say thee Defoe? (No! not that one ....) Bloody hell! Loving Wolfsburg! Note: Wenger playing good guy post match and Wrighty is a an Arsene man again .... Now that's funny.

  12. Hiccup

    Feb 01, 2015, 19:37 #65977

    Baddie, Coquelin could be the answer. I don't think he's everyone's cup of tea though. He gets stuck in, niggly fouls where necessary to break attacks up, takes advantage of refs that don't issue yellow cards. Just what we need in that position. Unfortunately, those are all the traits of a Chelsea player, the likes of which get slagged off by some posters on here. Something tells me though, that these same posters won't actually mind this style of play if arsenal players are doing it? Let's just hope the dissenting AKB's of this style don't drive him out of the club.

  13. John F

    Feb 01, 2015, 19:35 #65976

    Hi Badarse,I read last week that Akpom was on the last year of his contract and is free to have pre contract talks.He is refusing to go out on loan and does not feel he will get enough first team starts.Liverpool were said to be sniffing around.He could be one that could come back to haunt us he looks very promising .Unless this situation has changed 45 mil might be a bit steep unless you are talking about his urine sample.

  14. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 01, 2015, 19:12 #65975

    Thought I'd continue the satire, Badarse; I did in fact grasp that, due to believing in a phenomena unknown to the AKB called 'precedence'.

  15. jeff wright

    Feb 01, 2015, 19:06 #65974

    Satire is a matter of opinion Badarse, Je suis Charlie>>?And not one of grammar. Only fools and asses laugh at their own jokes.

  16. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 18:59 #65973

    Oh dear E/G, there you go misunderstanding this beautiful English language; much of the criticisms levelled at me are due to not quite grasping what is being said. It wasn't cynical, it was satirical, buddy. Still a nice touch all the same, so thank you. Good old Arsenal.

  17. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 01, 2015, 18:47 #65972

    Nicely cynical in your last few words there, Badarse - there's hope for you yet. Westlower, why stop at 93/94? Please keep going to 1886/87.

  18. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 18:40 #65971

    Did a hamstring trying to flick a ball back between my legs-still I mentioned my tennis misdemeanours earlier. Only teasing maguiresbridge. That was quite good E/G, have some hope for you for the future, though I have more for our three new arrivals in the team, Bellerin, Coquelin and Akpom-potentially £45million sell-on fees there for Stan.

  19. jjetplane

    Feb 01, 2015, 18:32 #65970

    I know WESTIE hence the underwhelmed feeling. Overpaid mercenaries flicking the ball around (no wonder they get kicked up in the air) while gratifying a public who have only a 40% interest in the carnivalised proceedings. Contrast with doing Wimbledon for 5 at Highbury know it actually went towards a trophy haul. For myself, looking forward to seeing big guns Littlehampton next week. Anyway - back to my hamstring injury that I have apparently had for 2 years so Abou me old mucka - know just how you feel bar the financials nudge nudge. I heard QPR want you as of now. Jon Sammuels - what a haircut!

  20. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 17:44 #65968

    'JJ, It may have escaped your attention but we've been in contention for the top 4 ever since Wenger arrived! We finished 5th in 95/96; 12th in 94/95; 4th in 93/94.

  21. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 01, 2015, 17:27 #65967

    Badarse, you're taking up a lot of space at the moment - perhaps aware of past absences, and absences to come when results once more drop off - but surely there's room for the rest of us if we're concise? Plus the contrast provides temporary relief.

  22. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 01, 2015, 17:08 #65966

    Badarse, to be honest you weren't one of the dudes I was referring to, but i'm sure they'll be along

  23. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 16:58 #65965

    Oh E/G. I told you to leave the humour to me, it's all about timing, and it's not even 5 o'clock yet!

  24. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 16:46 #65964

    Bellerin, championed by westlower and myself after his baptism, has broken through gentlemen. His speed of thought, feet, and judgement, means he gets his toes to the ball a micro-second before the other man in a 50-50 call. Getting into dangerous areas, and a first goal as a tribute to that. Santi immense again. Olly generally been a good leader of the line, despite his critics, now he is the real deal in that respect. Akpom, surprising pace and is finding space, a bright future is quite likely. Theo is only worthwhile when it is instinctive. If he has to think and make a decision he is in trouble-a wonderful goal though. The Coq is our new DM! He has saved AFC £20million, so a bigger bonus for Ivan next year. Thought Nacho had a really good game too.

  25. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 01, 2015, 16:38 #65963

    You call a spade a shovel? I thought it was a Badarse a Brian.

  26. jjetplane

    Feb 01, 2015, 16:25 #65962

    You don't count WEsTIE - only on jere when 4th looks likely. Bore off ....

  27. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 16:25 #65961

    Hello maguiresbridge, waited until 4.20pm so that I wasn't one of those dudes, they're all young anyway. Hiccup, Djokvic is in a different class. As a tennis dilettante, who's balls were often out, and the fact that he is my favourite, I would have backed him even at a break down-don't bet though. Interesting jj, sniping at Ron? As I seem to court a distillation of bile from those who truly understand football, so perhaps Ron does with his dismissals? What think you? The balance on this site gives an unfair and distorted view of right and wrong. Getting a bit deep here, usually I am a person who calls a spade a shovel.

  28. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 15:54 #65959

    @Hiccup, Well done in recouping your Murray loses. I am very happy to have lost my money as Arsenal turned on the style once 2-0 up. More of the same next week please. What a strong squad we have now the wounded warriors are returning + new talents Bellerin & Akpom. Not hard to see why we were able to loan out POD, Sanogo & Campbell. Giroud has evolved into a good leader of the line. Signing Schneiderlin in the summer would be the icing on the cake. Still with us then JJ?

  29. jeff wright

    Feb 01, 2015, 15:35 #65957

    Easy peasy Villa no goal scored in the past 11 hours of football the 2/7 on was giving money away ! That's why were at those odds to on to beat the Brummy duffers .The mighty spuds up next at the lane of pain a win there for us will put paid to there hopes of wresting the 4th place trophy off Arsene,I still stick with my view that Liverpool are the danger to that pot of silver all the 30 pieces of it.

  30. Hiccup

    Feb 01, 2015, 14:04 #65956

    Afternoon jj. A touch of hoofball about the goal which will have took the shine off it for the anti anti-football fraternity on here. Not having a good day myself so far. Placed a bet on Murray to win today. I thought it was nailed on. I worked on the principle that Murray had had an extra day's rest so fatigue would play an important part with Djokovic. I also realised that Murray had lost 3 Australian finals to Djokovics 4 wins so I factored in that to change today. All went tits up though, and I can't work out why? Maybe Djokovic is just better than Murray, but that's not how we work things out on here.

  31. jjetplane

    Feb 01, 2015, 13:46 #65955

    Ozil is back. Giroud is actually quite good. A canter (horse term). Good to have you back Baddie and great that WESTIE is punching out the numbers. Thought you had both left for good because this site is full of 'not your kind of people.' See you are still sniping at RON. Give it up - it's obvious who is the football man. Only just overheard Ozil on the kitchen radio. Thought it was a four kick off. Such is my undying love for the soft monster that is Arsene FC. I suppose I could go make a coffee. YAWN. Morning HICCUP and CORNiSH.

  32. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 01, 2015, 13:34 #65954

    Badarse, the dudes I was referring to are usually on here and have something to say giving us their opinion and the benefit of their wisdom when it suits them, so maybe we can expect them around 4,oClock today.

  33. Hiccup

    Feb 01, 2015, 13:21 #65953

    Well I shall be going against what the bookies say today and opting for 4 or more goals in the game at 8/5. Baddie, the odds are not put up for merely information purposes. Anyone with the belief that arsenal won't finish top 4 has the odds rammed down their throats which is the basis of Westie's counter argument in that the bookies know what they are talking about. Anyone wanting wenger out is told to go the bookies at 80/1 because he ain't going anywhere. We all know that? I just know if jeff had come on here saying villa will beat us, Westie would have said don't be daft, villa are 12/1 and ain't scored this year. Double standards. A wob says we won't beat Villa and the AKB's will jump down his throat saying he is negative. An AKB says he don't fancy us beating Villa, not a murmur. You can hold that opinion if you're pro wenger. So once again, we are 2/7 to win today. That's good enough for me to tell Westie he's wrong.

  34. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 01, 2015, 13:00 #65952

    His wallyness really loves the microphone doesn't he, he's even popped up before he's barely in the stadium in the entrance corridor talking a good game,(lets hope he plays it as well today) what a mouthpiece he must be a managers dream is it any wonder he's a favourite of OGL.

  35. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 12:56 #65951

    Anders Limpar was a very special player 24601, with a thunderous strike. He would have slotted into this Arsenal side perfectly. Some things GG got wrong. Now that should provoke a reaction, anyone would think I court them. @Hiccup, you are brighter than your last post to westlower. Surely you can see it is just info? People talk of which team they'd pick to play for their lives, SKG was on about this the other day. It is just percentage play. A team that never concedes a goal in ten consecutive games means the eleventh is just another game. What the stats tell you is the form, the likelihood of a sequence being broken sometime-perhaps in the eleventh game, also that this team seems to operate very well defensively and may do so in the eleventh game. The odds reflect this and some make a good living from 'playing the odds'. There are so many 'odds' on this site we should all be millyonaires.

  36. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 12:22 #65949

    @Hiccup, I only give out bookies odds for information on how Arsenal are viewed by independent professional minds. My life is not dictated by them as there is no right or wrong, merely opinions. As you are well aware odds on favourites don't always win as they'd be no bookies left. Bradford showed that only too well last week. My aim is to turn a profit based on my own judgement, regardless of the bookies opinions. For the record I believe Arsenal will finish 3rd in the PL, whatever anyone else believes.

  37. Hiccup

    Feb 01, 2015, 11:52 #65948

    Westie, when not droning on about fatigue, you base all your arguments around the bookies odds. Anyone that thinks arsenal won't make top 4, you throw 1/3 odds given by Billy Hill as your argument that we will make top 4. Jeff thinks today's game is a formality, as agreed by the bookies. Yet you now discard what the bookies have to say about it? That's fine, and you give your reasons why you don't think it's a formality. But using your approach, your opinion is invalidated as arsenal are 2/7 to win. Once again, it just sounds like pre prepared excuse making. Arsenal should win at a canter. You have no fatigue excuse up your sleeve to use, so all you go on is that villa have been crap for 5 games and it must come to an end soon. I'll bear this approach in mind as a retort next time you throw bookies odds back as your argument.

  38. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 11:14 #65947

    For those of you who believe today's game will be a walk in the park consider this: Only Man U (12) & CFC (12) have earned more points than Villa (11) at the Emirates; Villa haven't scored in their last 5 PL games but have never gone 6 leagues games without scoring in their history; Benteke has scored 3 goals in 4 PL appearances against AFC; Arsenal haven't managed to win 3 PL games in a row this season; Only 4 teams have a better goals against record than Villa; They have concede 25 goals in PL, the same as AFC. Conclusion: They are only historical stats that are there to be broken but I think I'll have a bit more of the 5/1 about a draw.

  39. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 10:46 #65946

    @Badarse, That Jon Sammels goal was a life changing moment. There's always a micro second when the world stops as the brain (not Brian) attempts to fathom what the eyes think they've seen. After years of being tormented by Man U supporting schoolmates, the Arse struck back in style. Floated away from Highbury that day floating on air. Our dedicated life long support for the Gunners had been repaid in spades. Anders Limpar scored a similar one against Liverpool many years later. Loved to watch Anders play, but sadly GG didn't share my enthusiasm as he was usually the first player hooked.

  40. Badarse

    Feb 01, 2015, 10:36 #65945

    Good morning C/G, thank you so much for tracking down that youtube footage. What the mind does, and how it works! I was going to refer to the 'The Golden Goal' and thought no that's a recent phrase used during extra time. I took the advice, walked away backwards as I was watching and knocked over my collection of 'Self Help' books. Thanks again, some superb goals, watch them fellas. @westlower, Goal No.3 is the Sammy goal, the day we were both in the West Lower Stand. Just think if the time machine I'm building works I can go back to that day, seek you out, and get you to put a bet on that we win the Fairs Cup in April. Fascinated by the spiel you gave regarding betting. So complex, so obvious. If I had an addictive gene I would take it up now, I haven't so will walk away and do the Four Tops thing-I liked them! Charlie's game postponed so we can all watch the Villa game together, yippee!

  41. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 9:43 #65944

    @Jeff, I should have added that should Villa score first or the game enters the closing stages as a draw then I will back Arsenal to win at the revised in-play odds. That way I'll guarantee a profit. The odds increase greatly in the closing minutes. Some of my best bets have been struck in injury time. The 4-4 against TH won me £600 for a £2 stake, with the bet struck at 4-2 with 5 mins left. Never underestimate what can happen in injury time and still people leave the stadium early! From a betting perspective the ideal game for me is for Arsenal to win after being behind, but I'll be very happy to see them win 2-0 against Villa. There'll be some interesting betting opportunities at the Lane next week, with both teams fresh and up for the fight!

  42. Westlower

    Feb 01, 2015, 9:16 #65943

    @Jeff, My approach to football analysis & consequent betting is less dogmatic than your own. Because a side is 'fatigued' doesn't make it impossible for them to win, it simply makes the task harder. The fatigue zone doesn't kick in until the later stages of a game when the result could already be out of sight. I do believe it's important that the fatigued team scores the first goal on the basis that it's disadvantageous chasing the game with a set of weary legs. I struck 3 bets yesterday, backing fatigued teams Liverpool, TH + Man U to land a treble at odds of just over 5/1. The rationale being that Liverpool have hit top form & impressed against CFC midweek, albeit losing. They continually took the game to CFC. TH must have been buoyed in reaching a Wembley Cup Final midweek & were playing an out of sorts WBA. Man U looked a formality. My 2nd bet was a win double involving TH & 19/10 & CFC at 6/5. After TH won a 3.0 kickoff, I had nearly treble my stake rolling on to CFC so to cover the bet I backed the draw at 11/4. If Man City had won I obviously would have lost. CFC played like a fatigued side in the 2nd half & even genius coach Maureen couldn't get them to raise their weary legs for a final onslaught on City's goal, deciding to park the bus instead. He continues with his cheap posturing though & is repeating his previous spate with the media that had gone on before in Milan & Madrid. Odious little creature! I don't agree that the Villa game is a formality this afternoon. Villa have a good track record at the Emirates and will be buoyed by the return of Agbonlahor & the new signing Gil. They look to be well set up to park the bus and play on the counter, a ploy that has frequently been Arsenal's undoing. That Arsenal will press the game is not in doubt & in the absence of an early goal the chances of a 0-0 or 1-0 either way increase. I don't regard Arsenal as 1/4 shots and have backed the draw at 5/1 & Villa at 12/1. I hope I lose my money! We'll find out today how important the absent Sanchez is to the team.

  43. A Cornish Gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 23:17 #65942

    Badarse, take my tip, walk away. This is just fun and games chill a little fella.

  44. A Cornish Gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 23:05 #65941

    Goal no.3 is not bad either!

  45. A Cornish Gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 22:33 #65940

    Badarse. The Big Match 14/03/70. It's on you tube. 52 mins long. After about 45 minutes are the 12 candidates for Golden Goal of the season. The George Graham goal against Crystal palace you mentioned earlier is candidate no. 7 (47 mins). I was trying to find this for you while you were making your latest post. I haven't read it yet! I'll get back to you later.

  46. Badarse

    Jan 31, 2015, 21:35 #65939

    No C/G, it's anything but clear. Best was an undeniable talent, I saw him a few times and was scared to death that he would hurt Arsenal on the day. I was also aware of what I considered to be his frailties. He liked the booze, as many do, but the drink, allied with his celebrity lifestyle took over. Anyone who had a business, a marriage, children, and drank, would be regarded by many as foolish. Foolish to jeopardise all the good which was in his hands. A simple statement. Whether it be a 'football legend', a schoolteacher or a fireman, it is a common situation. Now in your world perhaps you draw distinctions between one profession and another, a set of mundane skills or special talents. I try to use a sense of balance and equality. That should be de rigueur. Is that clear? As a matter of interest I feel the same about the way you say things.

  47. jeff wright

    Jan 31, 2015, 21:06 #65938

    Westie,obviously City were the fresher side as were Sheffield's opponents ,Liverpool's and the spuds ones, the 'fatigued men' though all won their games comfortably. Your point about Chelsea failing in the second half to have a shot on goal also applied to thr non-fatigued City players and according to your theory they should have scored and won the game against the fatigued chavs! It's just not adding up this fatigue malarkey Westie . I watched the game and thought it was a war of attrition in the second half with neither side wanting to lose so it inevitably ended in a draw, the Chelsea GK's mistake cost his side 2 points and not fatigue. Anyway it can't be used tomorrow for an excuse against the Villains if things should go the shape of a ripe pear for Arsene .Everything is fair set for another home win against modest oppo'. A little less talk and more action is what is now required.Because it's looking mighty crowded around 4th place with sides fighting for it like a pack of snarling rabid dogs over a bone.

  48. Westlower

    Jan 31, 2015, 19:59 #65937

    There is no such thing as fatigue? Only a fool would believe such clap trap. There must be a perfectly logical answer as to why CFC didn't manage a shot on target in the second half?

  49. jeff wright

    Jan 31, 2015, 19:40 #65936

    Hiccup, there is clearly something afoot with Mourinho having been fined and Costa suspended .It's probably all some fiendish plot by the powers to be to appear to be taking action against cheating Jose while in reality behind closed doors they are hatching plans to help him by doing such things as bribing or coercing match officials into making decisions in Mourinho's favour.You know this makes sense. So the 4 teams that played midweek in the cup somehow, despite being fatigued , avoided losing to fresher opponents . 3 won and only Chelsea drew.They did however score first but City courtesy of a Chelsea GK error ( no midweek fatigue involved ) salvaged a point . I suspect that Mourinho will not be too fussed because he maintains the 5 point lead that Arsene has worked so hard for to help him achieve it. You couldn't make it up.

  50. A Cornish Gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 18:20 #65935

    Badarse. Thanks for the (indirect) response. Let me try and set the record straight. As you suggest my views are more in line with the majority of posters on this site. As I have used in my moniker accassionally, I am an Arsene sceptic. However, I don't generally post in an anti Arsene way. My posts are usually either pathetic attempts at humour, confirming somebody's memories, or trying to deflate somebody's, how can I put this, rather overblown opinion of some point outside the football spectrum. I don't disagree with a lot that you have to say about football, it's just the way you say it. Whatever you have to say about brain abnormalities or addictive personalities, it's all totally irrelevant with regard to a football legend. Is that clear?

  51. Badarse

    Jan 31, 2015, 17:41 #65934

    I take your point maguiresbridge, though when we write we imagine an individual who is somehow remotely interested in what we have to say. Truth is there may be no one out there who gives a tinker's cuss what anyone actually says. Some clearly just fawn over some others, some repeat the same old party lines incessantly, some are clearly suffering in some way whereby they need to try to beat up someone verbally, or engage in a convoluted discussion nit-picking over some casual remark, which probably helps their mental disquiet. It is all a one way street though. If someone is a recognised poster, then that individual deemed to be on the right side, can pretty much say anything and be encouraged and applauded. Someone seen as an opponent is questioned over any minor offering, and usually dismissed and sometimes rudely so. It's why I get fed up now and again. Look at the current strands of me saying Best was a fool. People, the usual suspects want to take me to task, question why the emphasis is on such a view, demands to explain this and that, and begin patronising. It is medically accepted and recognised that some have addictive personalities and probably we are all on the autistic spectrum at one point or another, so anyone possibly can try to make a case for not being a fool. It's why I made a rash decision to adopt a different persona to get away from the stupidly narrow attitude of, 'Hey it's Badarse, let's give him some stick.' So sticks at the ready, start thrashing, ha ha.

  52. Hiccup

    Jan 31, 2015, 17:35 #65933

    Jeff, there are many excuses other than fatigue to factor in. Kick off times, anti football, hoofball, scared refs, etc. it's not all clear cut. I'm bemused as to why Mourinho was fined £25k this week re his comments that refs/media have an anti Chelsea agenda? We know the refs/media have an agenda against arsenal, as it is plugged on here on a daily frequence. So I don't think the fine is with the context aimed at refs, but that it was a slur against arsenal, as we are the only team hard done to by refs. Hopefully Westie will take out a libel case against Jose, as he has full contractual rights to this nonsense for the next 5 years.

  53. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 16:50 #65932

    Badarse, funny you should mention the young guns and making them aware, is it any coincidence there's not to many (if any) that have anything to say on this page, you know the JCL types and those that think Arsenal was formed in 96. There's some great pieces of nostalgia and stories on here from real experts, like you say were there and bought the shirt(that I for one never tire of reading ) i'd be surprised if these young types and indeed older were even bothered or cared, i'm sure they've heard of George Best but Frank Mc Clintock? etc, etc, etc, would they even know him/them if they walked past? not if the thirty plus year old who asked me a couple of years ago outside the armoury who Terry Neill was as he signed autographs. Like I've said is it any coincidence that none of them have much to say on this page, but hopefully they're reading it and that's a good start.

  54. jeff wright

    Jan 31, 2015, 16:49 #65931

    The old midweek fatigue excuse ( yawn)gets yet another knock with the spuds and Liverpool both winning .Chelsea up next so will they make it a hat-trick>? The out come of that tete a tete is only of academic interest of course to us regarding our aspirations with Liverpool and the spuds results being at our own level for Arsene's 4th place trophy.

  55. jjetplane

    Jan 31, 2015, 15:34 #65930

    Some excellent posts over the last couple of weeks RON and you always say just what I am thinking especially the stuff about what an awful thing football has become. With such times I find myself with less allegiance by the day and indifferent to the fate of any club (including Arsenal). With that I am free to think as I find and really am enjoying the exploits of Costa and Kane! Believe me - I ****ed off a long time ago. Am praying Arsenal don't make 4th again and hope it is someone else. Feel I have gone full circle where a big team to me are Bournemouth and a new Chelski wannabee would be Crawley. Am almost back at the jumpers for goalposts again and enjoy a kickaround even at my age. Only good thing at Arsenal is Sanchez but I reckon he is not a Wenger player and it will be interesting to see how long he is around. Coquelin I also really like but if he is disrupted by Wenger picking his 'boys' then I hope he will walk as I understand Akpom is itching to do. Should have been watching my lot getting caned by Newhaven today (little faith) but I have a hamstring injury! Fortunately I have a lovely white witch looking after me and a I post Man Utd and the Spuds are rampant. Perversely I am enjoying the PL! George Best was perhaps the best player I have ever seen in the flesh and having had a drink with him he was also a lovely bloke.

  56. A Cornish Gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 15:26 #65929

    Badarse. Thanks for the response. Not sure what you mean by suggesting as 'fact' that Best had a 'probable' abnormality of the brain. Did he or didn't he? I wouldn't necessarily describe the lad who breaks into a shop to gain drug-money, who has a 'probable' brain abnormality, as being a fool, without knowing why he became a drug addict in the first place. Wouldn't you agree?

  57. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 14:11 #65928

    There's no need to mention his name but he's well and truly back.

  58. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 13:59 #65927

    Westie, yes indeed that's the first I've heard of it, as Badarse says another one dropped off the conveyer belt, i'm sure we'll see black armbands and a minutes silence tomorrow.

  59. Badarse

    Jan 31, 2015, 12:34 #65926

    Tony Evans that is a very interesting suggestion regarding the back pass, you learn something every day, mind you MARCUS would probably contest that. A man went into a butcher's and asked for a pound of Steak and kidlee. The butcher said, 'Don't you mean kidney?', and the chap replied, 'I said kidlee, diddle I?'

  60. Tony Evans

    Jan 31, 2015, 12:13 #65925

    7 Kings - I have always thought that the banning of the back-pass hastened Liverpool's demise! Badarse - as Ron says anything suet based is good to me. Had a great Steak and Kidney Pudding last night, washed down with a one or two pints of bitter - lovely.

  61. Badarse

    Jan 31, 2015, 11:47 #65924

    For maguiresbridge. This comes with a crate of Virtual Stella buddy. Badarse sat alone in AKB Central Command. The 'Open Day' had been a modified success. He sat holding a lighted taper after lighting the oil lamp, blew it out and reflected on the day. This was the nearest the AKBs came to smoke and mirrors. The,'Get a free meat pie' offer, to sign up as an AKB had had it's small successes. A few had recognised it's flaws in it's style, usually only tubby WOBs would be enticed. Of course they generally would sell their souls for a free meat pie, once consumed they would always be looking for the next. JAMIE had been caught with a turkey baster after the kitchen had closed, he'd been inserting Tabasco sauce into a number of pies. His only defence, said with an evil chuckle, was that a WOB getting a badarse was one step towards enlightenment. He is banned from the kitchen now, along with the current bans already in force, the shower room, the garden-to be kept away from gnomes, the tuck shop, allowing him to have any flammable items, and never to be left alone with a pineapple and a WOB, oh the list just goes on. The first signs of discord was in the pie queue, when a group began the proverbial disagreement of whether Ginsters was pronounced with a 'J', or a 'G'. The main thrust was that a 'J' sound was too French, therefore it was Arsene's fault, not the spirit when about to genuflect to the great man during the recital of, 'One man didn't buy, didn't buy a DM. One man and his boss Josh...' during the inauguration. He smiled recollecting GBP's obsession with ironing the 'Arsene FC' flags draped around the building, Central Command now had five irons caked with bits of plastic Arsene faces, and innumerable damaged flags, in the broom cupboard-which was signed, 'Arsene's sweepers', AKBs were nothing if not indomitable, with a sense of irony. The form had proven quite daunting for those who'd eaten their way to the interview desk, the box marked 'SEX' had numerous 'Yes please' inserted, and many were misspelt, as were a few names. Though DJ did pass the exam and is now operating as an AKB under licence for his trial period. I do think westlower, who is a stickler for routines, insisting on his zumba class going ahead during the morning was disturbing to some. His tights splitting as he high-kicked seriously affected at least one younger WOB lad, who screamed silently, threw his arms in the air, caught them, and ran from the building. The fact that westlower refused to change into a new pair of tights affected us all, and Badarse had to council the Young Gun goonercolesyboy; after a laying on of hands, and the 'Arsene is Quite Good' mantra, (the 'Arsene est Plus Grand' mantra comes later in the re-indoctrination process), the lad got back in the saddle, and returned to his WOB-hunting, (imagine zombie-hunting). A surprise visitor was jeff wright, who would have come incognito but felt that was too Italian, or Chilean, and elected to come in disguise instead. The 'Stan' syrup only drew attention to himself, and his written answer of loving the Ronline Gooner gave him away immediately. When it was discovered he was there on a fact-finding mission the AKBs let him have free rein, as they knew he would get the facts wrong anyway. Then Badarse sighed with a mix of satisfaction and resignation-not bed companions as emotions-which gave him heartburn. He thought in hindsight it was an interesting experience all the same. With that he blew his nose, blew out the oil lamp, and blew out of the door, muttering, 'Well I'll be blowed!'

  62. Westlower

    Jan 31, 2015, 11:18 #65923

    Villa usually fare well at the Emirates but seem incapable of beating us at Villa Park. Last year they had considerable help from tomorrows ref Anthony Taylor, who awarded them 2 pens and red carded Koscielny. Giroud gave Arsenal an early lead before Mr Taylor stepped in and turned the game on its head. Please no repeat tomorrow Mr Taylor. It'll probably be a case of finding a way through , around or over the parked bus. One for all the musical grey-beards; Cunard are advertising a Transatlantic crossing from New York on Queen Mary 2 from 4-11 Sep featuring Crosby, Stills & Nash performing in concert. Way to go!

  63. Badarse

    Jan 31, 2015, 9:28 #65922

    Sad news indeed my friend. Time passes with the stealth of a Bergkamp carpet-slippered touch. Vic was one of our boys. This small boy still sees him as a big and famous man, wearing the magnificent red of Arsenal. Yes, sadness, and my condolences to the family too. Very sobering news.

  64. Westlower

    Jan 31, 2015, 9:04 #65921

    Sad news of the passing of Vic Groves. Vic was one of the Arsenal stars of the late 50's early 60's. Vic took over as captain when Dave Bowen left the club. This was the first ever Arsenal team I saw play & included Jack Kelsey, David Herd, Jimmy Bloomfield & Joe Haverty. Vic was uncle to Perry Groves. Condolences to the Groves family.

  65. Badarse

    Jan 31, 2015, 8:57 #65920

    Reread the post C/G, I think I praised him, and it wasn't an attack-I don't score my points in that way, off anyone. Ron posts in strident fashion which leaves no room for anyone offering an alternative view. He often uses the phrase, 'you're wrong'. That is not a considered response. The fact that he praised Best was incidental, he also recognised certain failings that the man had-his post was a good post, I believed I was adding to it. Can I get this right with you now? Someone posts a view, another offers their observations with balanced criticisms, which may criticise the earlier post, and you think that is wrong? Isn't that a normal exchange. You enjoy a forum here whereby the majority agree with yourself and Ron, and we know in today's world might is right. My post was a critique for those unaware of the fallibility of the individual, the younger guns if you like. The perils of alcohol are all too familiar to me and addiction is just a lottery. Some can drink 'responsibly' others cannot, it is a similar scenario with drugs and probably even posting in with a mindless agenda, or dare I say bickering-always looking for a pound of flesh. It is a mental glitch. I chose Geordie as he is 'flavour of the month' on this article and fulfilled a similar role to Best on the pitch. Parlour would probably have failed like Best in as much as his personality would have allowed him to stray into dangerous territory, he nearly ruined the career he had as it is. With hindsight I would never have swapped Armstrong for Best. As for inviting him onto the AFC playing staff, I would have celebrated it, but part of me would have remained guarded. My attitude to the man was not so uncommon back in the day. The only thing I can truly offer the people on this site is my gift of actually being there. I saw him live as he ran the show in the 1968 European Cup Final at Wembley, so I have some wonderful memories of the young player. We haven't heard from too many greybeards on Best, but a straw poll would probably echo my observations and misgivings of the lad. His was the most tragic of careers, but he chose the path to destruction. The fact that he had a probable abnormality of the brain is an aside. That just needs to be tacked onto the assessment, because even the lad who breaks into a shop to gain drug-money has a probable brain abnormality, either naturally, or as a direct consequence of the drugs. Wouldn't you agree? It would be interesting to hear from older heads, but I guess most have dropped off the end of that infernal conveyor belt, and I am perilously close to the edge. I have no time for getting locked into bitchy exchanges, as they are wrongly identified. I tell my truths without courting popularity. Sometimes I overcook the language, or oversell a point, in error, but it is always a ball park area of reality. Surely, giving a POV, explaining in a subsequent post the reasons why should be sufficient. It is all about perspective and status quo. I really don't want to keep bringing Ron into this but he's indirectly involved as you raised the subject. If Ron's posts were by a self-admitted Sour, and carried a different moniker he would not receive the support he does. Try it! Reread some older posts. I am cast on the opposing side by Ron and yourself, I don't choose sides. As I said I just tell my story. Respect should be fundamental.

  66. John F

    Jan 31, 2015, 8:01 #65919

    Great post Ron.I worked on a mental health unit and as you say addiction is a cover for other problems.How classless was the Wogan show when they allowed an obviously drunk George make a fool of himself just for entertainment.

  67. A Cornish Gooner

    Jan 31, 2015, 0:35 #65917

    Badarse. However you choose to criticize George Best, he will still be remembered as one of the most complete footballers of all time. To say he wasn't a team player begs the question 'Would you have wanted him in the Arsenal team of the 60s/70s? It could also be said that Ray Parlour would have been the greatest player of all time, if he'd been blessed with Best's skills! Did your attack on Best have anything to do with the fact that Ron (and others) praised him. As you admit 'fool' is neither sympathetic nor appropriate.

  68. Badarse

    Jan 31, 2015, 0:12 #65916

    Of course you are right on that score Ron. Fool is an unsympathetic word, and I am a fool to even say it. I agree alcohol addiction is a big problem to overcome, and none probably ever overcome it, the fortunate ones manage to walk away from it but it remains a travelling companion throughout their lives, only one step behind. Football was his medium, and his admission ticket to that forum was his blessed skill. Without it he was just an ordinary bloke with problems of an immense scale, which ultimately would have undone him, as they did despite the advantages he garnered through football. He was I believe, suddenly aware of his celebrity status and the doors it opened; he rightly deduced that he could do so many things without the hard graft, by just being George Best the star, rather than a pro footballer. He missed training sessions, went missing on match days, he even left his position on the pitch to gravitate towards the players tunnel so he could dart off the pitch at the final whistle as he had a date. He was an icon to the kids and I always feel a little resentful-as is the case of Rooney's status with youngsters-when a lifestyle of over indulgence gives a poor impression. Kids are so susceptible, and need idols and heroes, so they have to set a good example. Best couldn't manage that, the daemons within were too strong. He promised Busby so much but let him down often, and destroyed the waning team spirit of a fading side. He was attracted to the bright lights and London would have done for him much sooner than his road to oblivion ultimately did. All in all a sad legacy, and one which leaves majority bemoaning the words, 'if only'. Good comments chum.

  69. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 23:32 #65915

    Evening Baddie - i always saw Best as unfortunate in that his peak co incided with Utds rapid decline. He had the yrs 66 - 68 as as kid, they peaked in 68 and mentally the older statesmen in that wonderful team maybe mentally thought there was nothing left to do. Law by then was often injured and in decline. There were 4/5 who had all gone slightly over the hill and his peak years 69-72 co incided with him having to 'carry' a much slower and declining team. He almost took them to a title more or less on his own in 71/2 but ran out of gas though they led the table for a long spell in a period when they vied with City and Liverpool as top dogs. Result - nothing won. He got close to joining Chelsea at his peak, no slouches themselves - the Osgood Cooke team etc though one wonders what London would have seen him do and he knew and recognized it He was close to going and in modern times maybe would have done. i think he was a very resentful carrier of the Utd team who Busby allowed to age and was too sentimentally attached to move players on history tells us. Genius is often wedded to the capacity to self destroy as genius is a magnet to life pressures that us mortals never see thankfully be it in the public eye or privately. Drink for Best was like many, his escape hatch from the goldfish bowl that he didn't court. Its very wrong to bracket an addict as a fool. Some maybe. Most aren't. The addiction is a symptom of some thing much deeper and displays the cry for assistance that usually arrives too late if at all. Back then there wasn't the support mechanisms that exist today. Best was recognized by his peers as a lovely gentle guy who was generous and cared for others. Thats not a fool in my book buddy.

  70. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 22:37 #65914

    David you asked a question, which I thought I would never answer, but here goes. You asked who I thought was the better between Kelsey and Seaman. My answer, a stabbed answer, is Seaman-proving at least that westlower, Brian and myself are not all one and the same. I saw Jack play often and he was the first male hero I ever had. I thought he was quite amazing and all those who knew much more than me-the big people-seemed to as well. I too used to pay homage to the great man by looking into the club shop in Avenell Road, even if I wasn't buying on any specific day. He was a gentle and courteous man; strikingly handsome to a little chap when espied on the pitch, just like my Saturday Morning flicks heroes. I just thought Seaman was the best ever. Much is to do with personal impressions, it's why I come down so hard on Ron sometimes. I may have a watertight argument but I always concede that others look through different eyes. I was a mere child when Jack was number one, I was much wiser and more astute by the time Seaman arrived. So who knows, but it's something I try to avoid when people press me on who is best in this or that, there may always be differences of opinions, but some get stroppy when challenged, so better to sidestep-bad karma and all that. By the way George Best-one of the most gifted dribblers ever to wear a football shirt, and very skilful in many other disciplines, but was a poor team player. I always saw him as a drink-crazy fool, who was born with the most astounding set of football skills. Had he not been so talented he would have probably finished in the gutter. The stardust sprinkled on him was sadly sprinkled on the wrong man. Now Geordie Armstrong would have been the greatest player of all time had he inherited those skills.

  71. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 20:36 #65913

    SKG - Thats a great point that is about the Mersey Sound and from a sociological point of view it shows the power of music, football and the working class as the 'power' it was especislly in Liverpool when all 3 facets knitted together, a great City that was about to enter a really tough time economically. The travails of the people and the football combined with the music (thank you George Harrison RIP and i love you to bits - you were the most talented Beatle and proved it later though nobody was allowed to admit it and still dont but we know dont we George!)created the medias affection for Liverpool and as they rose and rose the City struggled and the love affair boomed. Its a great phenomenon and one that i dont think any City can or will ever emulate again. Those years were crystal for the scouse. I recall as a kid being taken to Anfield by my Uncle. We went all the way there and i and my Cous were in his sidecar. A big 650 BSA bike. We went into Anfield and it must have been my maybe 3rd or 4th ever 'live' match. The crowd was ear splitting and i can still see the Kop moving like waves and the scarves, so many of them. the noise was totally deafening. Visitors raraely stood a chance there.i was about 10 maybe. We got thrashed 4 or 5 cant really recall but i do recall Ian Ure chasing shadows and fingers jim just kept picking it out the back of goal and it was like Arsenal were just irrelevant by passers. The thing is that today the media love in still speaks of the Anfield atmosphere. ive been maybe 20 times since then and its a myth. You ll never walk alone back then was truly moving. Now its played through music sound largely. There was nothing like Anfield though for years. The recall of that thrashing never left me till i went back on that magical night in may 89 and the Gunners support owned the title deeds to that place that night. Its a better atmosphere at Goodison now when Everton have got the wind in their sails but the myth prevails ........

  72. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 30, 2015, 19:39 #65912

    Badarse: I think Terry Christian was making the point about compulsory purchase and that the Crown States owned all Britain's land. Laws are different in USA where deeds really mean you own the land you house stands on.

  73. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 18:48 #65911

    Where's my man ArseneKnewBest? My wife has just left as a volunteer to assist at a newly formed 'homeless soup kitchen' on the clifftop-only reason I'm not there is because I'm taking young Charlie footie training. It's the 21st century dudes, and we have cold and hungry people shuffling about like zombies, being debased by charity. We are living in an age whereby a time is fast approaching when 1% of the world's population will own and control 50% of the planet's wealth. How is that for ownership Seven Kings Gooner? Power to the people! Oh sod it, Badarse is back.

  74. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 18:22 #65910

    Seven Kings Gooner, when I was a lad and first going to Highbury the clubs in the current first division were 'big' clubs to me. Little boys never see beyond the ends of their noses, but it was a formula I stuck with. Northampton Town and Dave Bowen, Portsmouth, Charlton, Cardiff, all in the old First Division. I adjusted my sights as I grew from that little boy, but the glaring 'Everton were the big team in Liverpool' is oft repeated. As westlower suggested success breeds envious contempt-for a variety of reasons. It's certainly why we have had, and still endure more than any other club. As for the land beneath the house, it is obvious that we never own anything in reality. We are just holding the reins until the next generation comes along and takes 'ownership'.

  75. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 30, 2015, 18:03 #65909

    Tony Evans: I listen to Terry Christian on football chat show many years ago and he described Liverpool as "pass to the full back who passes to the centre half who passes to the other centre half the pass back to the keeper, repeat 4 times and then if in doubt pass back to the keeper" He is not every bodies cup of tea but I listen to him one discussing how we never really own any of the land our house sit on, it was very thought provoking and he is a very bright guy! An avid Manc but a great antidote if you don't like Liverpool. Ron : So right about Everton, when Ipswich won the league in 62, Liverpool won the old second at the same time. For the next few years it was the Mersey sound and Liverpool football club that the media fell in love with. Liverpool becoming England's top club really is a recent phenomena in traditional footballing terms.

  76. Westlower

    Jan 30, 2015, 17:35 #65908

    Envy goes hand in hand with a successful period in any clubs history, Arsenal's was spawned in the 30's when we dominated English football. I remember being on Norwich railway station in 1961 on route to our families annual holiday at Great Yarmouth when Bill Shankly & his Liverpool team alighted from a train on their way to a game at Carrow Road. They were just another club in those days & didn't rate a second glance. Who could have foreseen what was about to unfold in the coming years. They won the old 2nd division in 61/62 & the rest as they is history. Michael Owen has seamlessly joined the horse racing fraternity. Once a villain always a........

  77. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 30, 2015, 17:19 #65907

    Badarse, definitely not a Guinness man can't stand the stuff, more of a Carlsberg Stella person although i go round them all, in a Cobra phase at the moment. Ron could never stand the spice boys myself especially Mcmanaman and he brings it all back on BT sport what a twat how any body would want to pay for that.

  78. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 16:43 #65903

    Ron, take it easy! You see I do you a favour when I irritate you, you can focus all the bile on me. When we are singing from the same song sheet you are like a gatling gun, firing rapidly, and at no one in particular. They are all ghosts buddy, they've trodden the grass, inked their fingers, spouted their dirges, and their words, with them, just drift away and echo on and on across the universe-but we no longer hear them. I'll pop around later and pick the fluff from your belly button, you know that sooths you. Have you got in any Salt and Vinegar cusps?

  79. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 16:43 #65902

    Ha ha Baddie - steamed pudding with rasberry jam on top mate? Spotted dick was always boiled in muslin in our house? Gorgeous. Anything with suet in it was great wasnt it! Youre right again mate. Bloody Owen Leeds and Gerrad and the spuds create the purple splutter! The Liverpool media love in surpasses the Utd one for me yet many disagree. Arsenal arent well liked either as you say. A lot of envy applies though over that intangible 'class' thing ive always thought.

  80. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 16:33 #65901

    We are building ... Hi mate. Yr right. The thing is Liverpool were pretty much a rag arsed nothing Club with little history until 1963. They glittered for 30 yrs admittedly after that but Everton were the glamour Club in Liverpool with all of the pedigree, titles and wealth behind them. Owen . another sneaky little con merchant and diver like Gerrard yet never exposed as such by the media who all want the little toad as their Son in Law and refs who thought he was cute with his cloister boy hair cut and clean shaven baby mug!

  81. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 16:22 #65900

    Tony Evans, you have to be careful of Ron's advice. He says let it out, then flies into a purple spluttering rage. I understand why-any sense of injustice triggers that kind of outburst, you just have to relax, and absorb. Football's perceived injustices are manifold and without attempting to quantify I am totally convinced Arsenal have attracted more than a fair share of malevolence. Whether it be from the FA, the media, clubs, or their supporters. Oh, and I love all those old puddings. Spotted Dick-cooked in my Mum's old stockings, (only kidding-they were my Dad's), jam roly-poly, steamed syrup pud, treacle tarts, 'real' baked in the oven rice pudding-with the skin on top, tapioca and semolina puds, rock cakes. Ahh, the delightful smells of baking and cooking in the 'old' days. Now then, centre yourself, (but don't nod it in), breath deeply and after me, repeat, "Om!"

  82. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 16:07 #65899

    Baddie - Clarke the spud? Yes, its fits that does. He d got that flimsy anaemic weak kneed look hadnt he. Is it that pathetic lily white shirt that does it? For me theyve had dozens of feeble looking dainty pasty faced types down the decades. The types an opponent rightly thinks he can knock over with a feather.Seems to be standard need for a spud to be pasty faced and a bit effeminate? Look what youve done now Tony!!

  83. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 30, 2015, 16:06 #65898

    Ron - if the ref / linesman had done their job in 2001, Henchoz would have walked for the handball, we would have won that game even more comfortably than we should have. Still suffer from nightmares about it. Knocking them out in the 4th round next season helped though. That little s**t Owen getting Keown sent off by holding his shirt, making a run, Keown's natural instinct to pull him back = red card. We had the last laugh when he missed a sitter right at the end though. Liverpool seem to have some kind of a love-in with the meeeeeedja, surely only because of the (admittedly) great history of the club

  84. Tony Evans

    Jan 30, 2015, 16:01 #65897

    Thanks Badarse (I think). Ron - agree re Gerrard can't stand him. Loved that slip of his last season.

  85. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 15:49 #65896

    Tony - let all the dislikes and prejudices out mate! Its what footie causes. I didnt mind Liverpool then as they did have great players. I cant stand them now. Rubbish players by and large and still feted by the media!!The Gerrard factor too. Something about him that doesn't sit right for me. Well over blown and over rated as well. The Fowler Owen an McManaman years sent them down the pan didnt it. I cd happily boot the TV in just hearing his voice. Where does that accent come from? Put his boy next door face to it and im apoplectic! 2001 might shape my view though admittedly and dare i say it ....i will anyway...another Henry failure in a big match job! Westie - thanks pal. Thats them. couldn't recall the names. Its Whitehouse im mixing up with Burtenshaw isnt it.

  86. Tony Evans

    Jan 30, 2015, 15:39 #65895

    I should add Chelsea and the Spuds to that list I suppose but the Spuds are such a non-entity they barely register with me. As for Chelsea I am gradually disliking them more and more.

  87. Westlower

    Jan 30, 2015, 15:37 #65894

    @Ron, When Howe, physio George Wright & youth team coach Brian Whitehouse, all left to join WBA, an angry Denis Hill-Wood commented 'Loyalty is a dirty word, these days. There is nothing I can do about what WBA have done in raiding our staff except just to ignore them.' Don didn't fare well as they were relegated after 2 years into his 4 year tenure. He then joined Leeds as coach to Jimmy Armfield. Became manager of Galatasary in 1975 before rejoining Arsenal in 1977 as coach to Terry Neill. Took over as manager when Neill sacked in 1983. Resigned in 1986. Joined Wimbledon as assist/manager to Bobby Gould in 1987. Managed QPR 1889-91. Later assist/manager to Terry Butcher at Coventry.

  88. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 15:28 #65893

    Tony Evans absolutely spot on. Oh, and you are a steaming slice of spotted dick with custard, and a mug of cocoa

  89. Tony Evans

    Jan 30, 2015, 15:20 #65892

    Leeds - the very name still resonates with me. I remember them as a baying, hate filled mob, and that was just the players! I would love it if they drop another division. The only other teams I have no love for are Man U and Liverpool but that is only because of their periods of domination. Especially Liverpool in the 80s and the way they were feted by the media. An Arsenal back pass to the keeper and it was boring, boring Arsenal; a Liverpool back pass and they were praised for 'slowing the game down'! What long memories us fans have and we never forgive and forget.

  90. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 15:11 #65891

    I got to thinking, then after the pain subsided I began to see people as food and drink. radfordkennedy is a meat feast pizza, accompanied with a glass of rioja. Ron is a well done piece of rump steak with a pint of Fosters. westlower is a steak and ale pie, with a glass of port. jj is a plate of winkles and a glass of cream soda. julesd-had to block out the frangipane, (though the Joan Bakewell theme is all mixed up in it), and hedgehog kebabs, so go with a nice lemon sole washed down with a good chardonnay. GoonerRon is a bowl of oxtail soup and a G&T. E/G is a three Shredded Wheats with hot milk, and a glass of Robinson's. DJ is a jam roly-poly and banana Nesquik. Seven Kings Gooner is a bowl of jellied eels and a hot glass of Sarsaparilla. JAMIE is a mixed tomato salad dressed with a quality Modena vinegar, and a small brandy. John F is a slice of rarebit and some freshly squeezed orange juice. Bard is a bowl of chilli con carne, and Ribena. Hiccup is a Sunday Roast with a Russian coffee. maguiresbridge is a slice of ham from the bone, and a Guinness. Naturally I am a vegetable dhansak with a cuppa Rosie. Sorry guys, but I know you have been expecting gibberish and so wanted to act like the Titanic and break the ice. Ron, Clarke was anathema to me-he should have played for the Sours.

  91. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 14:42 #65888

    Hi Westie - who was it then went to WBA with Don? Im sure some body did unless i dreamed it mate!

  92. Westlower

    Jan 30, 2015, 14:24 #65887

    @Ron Steve Burtenshaw succeeded Don Howe as coach in 1971 before resigning 2 years later. He then managed Sheffield Wednesday for 2 years. Returned to Arsenal as coach & scout before becoming caretaker manager in 1986 (March to May) after Don Howe resigned as manager. He was then coach to GG but was tainted by taking a bung in the John Jensen transfer. Left with Bruce Rioch in 1996. Later suffered a stroke before working as a scout with Man City, under Keegan. Now retired.

  93. jeff wright

    Jan 30, 2015, 13:56 #65886

    Hi Ron, well done with your Brian (Brainarse) summations.You couldn't make it up! Baddie does add a touch of the histrionics to proceedings but like his idol Arsene can becoming overbearing and sanctimonious with his lectures. I agree that Mourinho uses the media better than what Wenger does although the Portugeezer sometimes goes too far with his comments such as the ones before the FAC tie last weekend that backfired on him big-time .He unlike Sir Ferguson carries out a scatter-gun type approach to all and sundry . Whereas the old jock was more pragmatic and concentrated his abuse on whoever he currently perceived as being a threat and he had Arsene well under control before retiring and had long ago ceased to try and belittle him.He had no need to do so because Wenger was doing the job himself.

  94. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 13:26 #65885

    Jeff. i think Mourinho works better when hes in the eye of a PL and Media storm mate. He loves to be the lightening conductor when Chelsea arent firing quite right. All of the posturing and gesturing and such like is deliberate i think. It keeps his players out of the focus and they seem to react positively to it. I like Mourinho and dont mind admitting it plus its a technique that many Coach's use. Id have him at Arsenal in a heartbeat instead of Wenger and i honestly believe all of his 'haters' would too on the quiet. Give me Mourinho s drama to Wengers simpering excuse making and whimpering blame culture style all day long. I do accept that my bias on this is shaped by working with French managers for a few years. Just like Wenger, it was never them, always some thing or somebody elses fault.

  95. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 13:12 #65884

    Baddie - yr bang on right on Leeds. Testimony to such as our generation of fans is that even now if we have to play them we can still feel a bit of trepidation cant we? As if theyre still all conquering! Only ever went to Elland Road once and that was back in 97 time ish. i think it was a 2-2? The atmosphere was pretty evil still then. The old Leeds resented Arsenal giving them a bit of their own medicine in games after we lost to them in the 68 Final and the feeling festered from their end im guessing.The two i cdt stand was Charlton and Alan Clarke in particular. Slimy, underhanded cheating b-----d he was wasnt he. My mate asked him for his and Reaneys autograph one night at Euston. They had been at West Ham i think and were heading home as we were. He told my mate to do one in no uncertain terms. Ive never forgotten it. They were unique though as you say. Revie took gamesmanship to new levels didnt he. Thing is once they scored it was game over, even if they scored in the 1st minute!

  96. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 30, 2015, 13:00 #65883

    Exeter, another invisible trophy that's more important to them than the real thing.

  97. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 12:59 #65882

    Great to hear Dons ok. A truly great Coach and indeed they did try and shoehorn Venables in on his blind side. That would be the historic 'classy Arsenal' would it, that intangible concept that we re all conditioned to tip our caps too but cant quite define? It never worked did it for Don when he went to WBA in 71. I recall Steve Burtenshaw went with him too didnt he?

  98. jeff wright

    Jan 30, 2015, 12:57 #65881

    Mourinho is obviously under pressure and is dodging the questions that he might get asked in a media interview .It makes him look weaker though and a laugh when you are winning type.However there is a touch of the realist about the mouthy one he knows that you don't win the league in November ,December,January and, unlike a certain other manager whe he was top of the heap at this time , he has not tried to claim that he had . No doubt though he was pleased for the helping hand that our esteemed genius has given him this season in his attempt to wrest the title from the Arabs at Poundlands and to hand it to the Russian at the bridge of sighs. Wenger's ducked a few post match media interviews in the past himself after poor results and performances and he as also thrown a few tantrums as well in the ones that he has held. Personally I have always held the view that he should be kept well away from these interviews because they have done his image more harm than good by exposing his flaky character . It must be difficult for him now to try and motivate the players for the Prem games with them and himself with one eye on the forthcoming Champions League tie and the FAC being the only realistic hope of us winning a trophy .Albeit exactly the same one that we have won twice before in the last ten years.We are supposed though to get all excited about this because it could be worse,then again it could argued that it could be better. We desperately need a new approach to our ambitions to get out of the stagnation that we are stuck in and that is not going to come under this in the comfort zone (yawn) manager and the current Stan Kroenke steady as she goes skipper approach.There must be more to life than this.

  99. Badarse

    Jan 30, 2015, 12:46 #65880

    Afternoon guys, especially Ron, well played chum. radfordkennedy, am raising a glass of your London Pride whilst warming my tootsies on your fire. I am impressed by the naval theme in your house but am relieved your lovely lady isn't into vintage cheddar or men, as I would never climb the rope ladder to bed. Bloody hell, 12.30pm and the clock sends out the 'sailors hornpipe'. Anyway buddy the Don Howe post is so interesting. Loved him, and all his knowledge needed to be tapped and passed on, a modern day footballing tragedy that he wasn't ensconced at the Arsenal. WABATTD, I wonder if the other greybeards would agree with me, but CFC are not anywhere near as bad/cynical as the Revie Leeds team-yet-though memories can play tricks. The thing is they played out their part, (went a bit Shakespearian there), in an era devoid of such chicaneries and trickery. Now players pull shirts, dive, spit and perform like loons, back then they performed like footballers, so Leeds were an abomination in a unique way. They were the first to stand a man on the line in front of a keeper to impede his vision and movement for corners. Class? We had Herbie bringing positives to the game by introducing numbers on shirts, Revie had players adopting spoiling negative tactics as just mentioned. Mention of their name still makes me twitch.

  100. radfordkennedy

    Jan 30, 2015, 11:23 #65879

    john F...Hello mate,yes Don is a great man and is very passionate about the game,but the flip side to that is Don tends to take,or at least he did take things very personally when it comes to Arsenal,from what he's said he had a good relationship over the years with 'them upstairs'as he called them,but felt things sour when the 'old Man' Hillwood step away from things.I don't know if he still does but Don used to subscribe to 442 magazine,honestly mate it used to make shout in the street,on occasion I'd see him coming back from taking his Dog out,and he'd say have you read it(referring to an article about the new tactical genius of the day in the Journal),and say Greenwood was doing this year's ago or Sexton advocated this in the 60's,to be honest I was never quite sure what he meant as it was just before my time starting in '68,but a lovely man as you say John

  101. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 30, 2015, 11:22 #65878

    RK : Lovely to hear about Don Howe - we were never the same when he left after the double season. The players really respected him, he could also get Charlie George at it! I think he turned Frank into a centre back and instilled that iron will to win. Superb coach, had he stayed in harness with Bertie Mee's organizational skills we would have won another league and a couple of cups for sure. Really lovely to hear he is doing well.

  102. Westlower

    Jan 30, 2015, 11:19 #65877

    Well said John F. I rate Don Howe as probably the best coach we ever had. Watched him play for us at RB in the 60's before a bad leg break ended his playing career. Always conducted himself well and always spoke good sense. Some of today's drama queens could learn much from Don.

  103. JAMIE

    Jan 30, 2015, 11:14 #65876

    Mourinho's a big baby just like Fergie was before him.If they ever get pulled up for their dirty tricks they start crying and refuse to talk to the media.When Fergie was Manure manager no one dared say peep to him,they should have got me interviewing him I would have sorted out the red faced jockenese fool,the same with Mourinho,the media love all his bulldung and false humility yet again one word to him he doesn't like and he goes off blubbing like a woopsie on acid.Wenger's about the only manager who tries to answer the medias questions,yet they say he gets an easy ride from the hacks.

  104. John F

    Jan 30, 2015, 10:46 #65875

    Rk, Good to hear about Don Howe.I remember the fans demonstrating outside on the news of Don Howes resignation as Manager.I was surprised by the demonstration as we all knew he was a better coach then a manager but I think it was due to the pure respect for the man and the way the board treated him as they tried to get Venables in behind his back.He can take a lot of credit for laying the foundation for GG success with the players he was bringing through. Great man.

  105. chris dee

    Jan 30, 2015, 10:31 #65874

    Ahh didumms! Poor little Jose,he's so upset he's going home and taking the ball with him. Perhaps some kind soul will find a dummy large enough to stick in his big gob and give us all a break from his tedious and so predictable bu*****t that our timid media lap up.

  106. Westlower

    Jan 30, 2015, 10:03 #65873

    I was shocked when it came up on the TV screen that John Terry received his first booking of the season on Tuesday. Assuming that's correct, how can that be? Anyone who has watched his holding of opponents at set pieces must wonder why the officials turn a blind eye? Law 12 states: Holding should always be punished by a direct free-kick or penalty if it happens when the ball is in play. Guidance on the interpretation of Law 12 says: The ref must warn any player holding an opponent before the ball is in play, caution the player if the holding continues before the ball is in play, award a direct free-kick or penalty kick & caution the player if it happens once the ball is in play. If the refs carries out this directive honestly how many cards would JT have received this season? More than his present one & only I suggest. The dark arts are alive & well and thriving at CFC!

  107. radfordkennedy

    Jan 30, 2015, 9:52 #65872

    SkG..Ron..Just to let you know,Don lives near me in a small south Herts commuter belt town,10 min or so from London Colney,he's a little frail but still loves to chat about the game and like Frank uses the term we when talking about the Arsenal,although he will always be associated with resolute defending,his eyes twinkle when you mention Liam Brady,he really did adore chippy and his ability to drop his shoulder and dribble up the pitch....baddie welcome back mate,come sit by the fire,and I shall fetch you a flagon of London pride

  108. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 30, 2015, 9:51 #65871

    Excitement builds amongst a section of the fanbase as they begin to talk up the possibility of an incredible double - the 4th Place AND the Moral Superiority trophy!

  109. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 30, 2015, 9:24 #65870

    re Maureen; we had Spanish next door neighbours and they came round to watch the 2011 FAC Final. I asked him how was JM doing as Real Madrid had won the league by a street. "He is not a Real Madrid man", was the reply. "He makes the club look bad. Always comments about referee, the chairman, the Spanish FA." The guy knows how to win things, no doubt about that, but tends to leave a trail of destruction behind him. Our clueless meeeeeeedja love him because he gives them nice quotes to print. I wasn't old enough to remember Revie's Leeds side but I might imagine Chelsea under JM are not a million miles away in the way they go about their business.

  110. Charlie George Orwell

    Jan 30, 2015, 9:01 #65869

    JAMIE: THE Arsenal USED to be a class act and a cut above every other club. George Graham (love or loathe his managerial style) was the embodiment of that ethos and I for one adored him for that. But that was back when we were considered to be fans and important to the club – not now when we are merely treated like consumer units to be fleeced as much as possible (whilst not DARING to complain). Wenger couldn’t change his style if his life depended upon it. And that’s the problem. He’s been sussed and has been for years – hence no titles or finishing anywhere near the title for so long. Can I also gently point out that George Best was one of the finest players ever to put on a pair of football boots. To criticise his fitness and lifestyle for being as those of his contemporaries and not like what is required nowadays is like criticising Caesar for not using machine guns.

  111. Westlower

    Jan 30, 2015, 8:51 #65868

    Spare a thought for poor old Maureen this morning, with the whole world against him. Refusing to take part in his contractual pre-match media interview but doubtless we can look forward to him squealing like a f**k pig post match. Coaches who encourage, even demand, their charges practice the dark arts as an essential ingredient in their win at all costs mentality, must take the punishment when caught in the act. Maureen plays the percentages, safe in the knowledge that Mike Riley's hapless band of officials are unlikely to spot any wrong doings. If it wasn't for TV cameras Maureen would get away with his anti-football strategy most of the time. Why indulge in such thuggery when he's in charge of the classiest team in the PL? Even Mick Quinn & Alan Brazil were asking the question "who are you kidding Jose" with regard to the impending appeal against Costa's stamp. Both ex-players agreed that Costa's stamps were intentional. Abramovich can buy anything his little heart desires on behalf of his club, except CLASS!

  112. Ron

    Jan 30, 2015, 8:23 #65867

    More than happy to let it lie Badarse but you ought to be tipping y'self to be mindful that it was yr own snidy retorts to the ribbing you had that prompted mine and others shots back at you. Youre do it a lot bud it has to be said. There are loads of us on here with pretty strong opinions but its apparent to me that there wasnt much in the way of harsh exchanges between anybody while you were off planning your Brian transformation. If your uncomfortable by another strong view, just leave it be. Thats my tip to you. Anyway. All done as you say. CG - Morning mate - been a while. Loved the 'Tops' mate. Used to go well with the Lambretta and 15 mirrors on it and the 'Parker' coat back in the College days!!

  113. A Cornish Gooner

    Jan 30, 2015, 7:52 #65866

    Ron. If the words of The Poster Formerly Known As Brian are getting you down, and you feel you need to respond, just remember The Four Tops song, and 'Don't! Walk away Ron. Eh?'

  114. Sneeze (formerly Hiccup)

    Jan 30, 2015, 6:42 #65865

    Jamie, is that you Tommy? Or was that Jack Daniels talking again?

  115. JAMIE

    Jan 29, 2015, 23:50 #65864

    Before Wenger arrived on these shores football for the last one hundred years was played by playboys who drank too much smoked too much and chased skirt too much.The football was played at walking pace and was often the case of you hoof then i'll hoof,yes Arsenal even back then were head and shoulders above the rest when it came to style and class,yet other teams had their stars too like George Best who when not boozing and shagging would often reach the pace of our own big effing German which shows how poor the rest were in their vain attempts to be professional while living like sailors on shore leave .Wenger arrived and for some 15 years or so Arsenal's football was on a different level to the rest, of course they didn't always win everything as visigoths and neanderthals like Manure,Pool,Chavs and smaller cesspits like Stoke and West Ham loved to dive,cheat,hoof and bellow yet Wenger kept to his principles and would never lower the quality as the rest,some even tried to copy the Arsenal way like City yet always kept up the gamesmanship as a joker if games weren't going as planned.Some old Gunner farts wanted Arsenal to play like the other teams becoming anti fans and being known as wobs or mongs yet Wenger wouldn't change his style just to satisfy their lusts for cheap silverware.After about 16 years other's started to change the way they played even serial hoof ballers like Manure,Chelsea and Liverpool yet always to a far substandard style to Wenger who just laughed at their vain efforts knowing he was always the first and supremely a cut above the rest when it came to conduct and class,and so it goes on....

  116. HowardL

    Jan 29, 2015, 22:17 #65863

    Ron, as it happens I too was on the Kop at the uncovered end, so can vouch for the truth of everything Badarse has said. Both our memories are in perfect working order, I can assure you. I do think a sending off would have made no difference, given that the match was into extra time but we had come back from the dead and knew we held the upper hand for the Villa Park replay - one of the most stress-free semi finals as Stoke knew it too. And we did lose 5-0 in the Potteries that season - just look in the record books. It actually reignited our season, probably used motivationally by Frankie. Ah, the Good Old Days!

  117. Badarse

    Jan 29, 2015, 20:48 #65862

    Ron, take my tip, walk away. This is just fun and games chill a little fella. Stoke were a very accomplished side with a good many excellent players-they took us apart 5-0 in the league up there that season. They did get a flier with two fortunate goals but we came back to draw, and as I said against a very good side. Honours even, what say you?

  118. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 20:20 #65861

    Howard - i so hope that you were at least legal drinking age by then, otherwise you're risking yr powers of recall being brought into question by our newly re incarnated resident omnicomptetent philosopher, theologian, historian and psychologist combined the Rt Hon Badarse (or whichever new guise the old fraud is donning by the time he gets to you!)

  119. Badarse

    Jan 29, 2015, 20:19 #65860

    HowardL we were at the far uncovered end, at the Leppings Lane end in the 1973 S/F. The whole crowd of Arsenal boys were pretty quiet as I recall, almost as if we were one person, and that person was holding his breath. Delirium as the ball hit the back of the net, everyone dancing and hugging, and I believe everyone in the crowd kind of knew we were going to win the replay, well perhaps an odd one didn't. It was a glorious sunny day and despite suffering from a virus the drive back to London was a doddle, car hooters down the motorway. Where did the years go Howard? Actually that was a cracking header from Frank, and of course no automatic red in those days for Mahoney. They were a very good side, Stoke, and didn't see or hear of any trouble with their fans in the three S/Fs I mentioned earlier.

  120. HowardL

    Jan 29, 2015, 20:00 #65859

    Hillsboro '71 - Frank's header handled on the line by Mahoney. Storey places the ball on the spot. Surely the tensest few moments in all my time watching Arsenal. My mate Ralph had driven all that way and couldn't bear to watch. Then delerium! And a comfortable replay win at Villa Park. But, say it quietly, Stoke really should have won the first time out - but, hey, they didn't. Tuf!

  121. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 19:34 #65858

    Yes. 16 yrs young and had been going to matches for 7 years by then. Grow up you silly idiot Badarse. Are you that desperate to try and score a point? Does being a lad give memory impairment in yr World?

  122. Badarse

    Jan 29, 2015, 18:22 #65857

    So Ron, I take that as a disagreement, and you weren't in any way trying to impose your views on any lesser mortals like myself, were you. It is all quite amusing. A sixteen years old boy with a memory of such amazing recollections, why I am a good deal older than you and my memories are not so strident as your ones. Then I am not as strident in my attitude as you, am I fella?

  123. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 18:13 #65856

    SKG, good point on the statue of Frank like a few others long overdue, maybe he hasn't been saying the right things about the right people'person, or saying them consistently enough. Yes it might be more fitting at Highbury but it'd be wasted as the same amount of fans wouldn't get to see it as would at the Emirates. Keep that spot at Highbury free for when the time comes for the clamour for one for OGL from his fans, not that it will be deserved of course but it will be out of sight out of mind.

  124. Hiccup

    Jan 29, 2015, 17:45 #65855

    Tommy, is that you Jamie? Or is it Brian? I can't keep track of all these 'monikers'!

  125. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 17:36 #65854

    I went to Hillsboro in 71 too. Nobody there when looking at it fairly and honestly would agree now that we 'deserved' to get a draw.We were lucky and more so that Greenhoff fluffed his lines twice otherwise cold eyes heroics wouldnt have counted for anything. Its right that in the replay we won fair and square. Rose tinted, skewed recall wont alter much guys.Stoke played the football, we were the pragmatists. Without a pragmatic side to a team, it wins nothing. Such as Chelsea arent 'boring' every match either. Its daft and selective to pretend that they are. GGs team s werent boring every match either. Far from it. Revies Leeds werent dirty and boring EVERY match either. They had brilliant players who made the cynicism and the skill happy bedfellows. Barcelona in recent years havent won every match by scintillating cavalier football.Real Madrid wil often play games tightly esp away from home. With all due respect Westie there are many like you who love to proclaim that 'entertainment' king. It makes them feel good to sound all flamboyant and care free. Truth is that football is a physical sport despite its watered down rules today. Panache on its own gives the odd flash of glory and false hope but ultimate failure in the bigger picture. Look at Wengers Arsenal. Unless you recognise 4th as 'success' hes lived with and encouraged failure for nigh 10 years. Keep buying it if you want too. Ill carry on rejecting it.

  126. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 17:17 #65852

    SKG - You've rumbled me mate. I am Don! ha . When did you work it out? Ive no idea where the Don is now. He must be mid 80s now? Joking aside, its a Don type that the Club should have imposed on Wenger ages ago as i see it. More important than any player signings he s made. Ironically Howe was a student and advocate of zonal marking in his pomp. He used to lecture coaches on it.It worked as he knew how to make it work, unlike our futile attempts at it. The theory of it is simple but pretty persuasive but it takes intelligent players who can adapt when needed.

  127. Tommy

    Jan 29, 2015, 17:08 #65851

    We're Wengers Arsenal and we play the proper way.Leave all this long ball dung to Stoke,West Ham,Man Yoo and the rest of the inbreds who make up the Premiership.

  128. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 17:06 #65850

    HI Westie - course i do mate. I believe though in the view that a team has to earn the right to play expansive football. The technical and flamboyant aspects of the game are dovetailed into a team plan. Take Bestie back then as you mention it. Utds defence was iron tough amnd organised with Foulkes Dunne Sadler Fitzpatrick an d Co. Stiles and Crerand making sure no prisoners were taken too. Utd flowed because of it. Wenger thinks he can fill his team with technicians and other teams will stand off him. His method and expectations are totally out of synch with reality. Some teams are fearful of it and lesser teams cant handle it at times its true. Top teams often laugh at it, that's the truth of it. If harnessing skill and technique and physical power was good enough for Matt Busby and Bill Shankly and Brian Clough then it should be good enough for a lesser Coach such as Wenger. Wenger is selling us short by feeding us with his infernal philosophy at the expense of the other less attractive facets of the game and its gone on for too long in my view. Theres never been a team yet that ever won a title with Wengers current methods at Arsenal or abroad and in my view there never will be.

  129. Badarse

    Jan 29, 2015, 16:44 #65849

    Hi 24601. I was at Hillsborough in 1971, A poor impossible to defend back pass and a clearance flying back over the defender and keeper's heads into the net, 0-2 down. We played them off the pitch in the replay at Villa Park, I was there that night too. I was also at the first S/F at Villa Park again the following year, and we only had to contend with losing our keeper and putting our centre forward in goal to survive for the replay. Deserved both cup final appearances. 2005 we were very, very lucky. They managed to hit bar and post too.

  130. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 16:43 #65848

    SKG, when he leaves the room, good one, it would be like him being back on the fags with the smoke coming out of his ears as he realised his instructions weren't been followed, he must have felt and looked like a chimney against city.

  131. Westlower

    Jan 29, 2015, 16:26 #65847

    @Ron, There must be a part of you that applauds when the skilled technical players make chumps of the hairy arsed brigade. Such is the class of players at CFC that they would probably win whichever way they approach a game. I have no doubt they'll be PL Champions this season & would be so regardless of who the coach is. You surely cannot condone the Champions elect failing to muster a shot on target until the final phase of the tie? Remember first time round at CFC when Abromovich get rid of Maureen as he'd become bored watching the percentage football week in, week out. We both sat through a successful but boring period of Arsenal's history when GG drilled his back 4 into relentlessly playing the offside trap. Yes it won trophies but my God was it mind numbing at times - the boring, boring Arsenal song was justified on entertainment grounds. You were rightly full of praise of George Best and doesn't it lift the spirits when the likes of Rosicky, Silva, Hazard & Sanchez strut their stuff making fools out of the serial fouler's. Football needs coaches who are brave/foolish enough to play on the front foot, daring to make mistakes. If every game was played as a chess match, not many would bother turning up to watch a bore fest. It may excite coaches to see a game completely closed down & mistake free but fans would soon demand much more. Give me an exciting attacking team over a dour defensive outfit all day long. As for your reference back to the Stoke semi, Stoke were gifted a very fortunate 2 goal lead but blew it. Stoke unlucky? Not one iota! No, we didn't deserve to win the FA Cup final v Man & I'm so pleased that style of play is not the norm for us.

  132. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 16:25 #65846

    Ron : What's Don Howe doing these days?

  133. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 15:35 #65844

    Lots of ways to play Westie. Long ball too has its merits and i applaud it at times. Chelsea - one player? Cesc, Willian, Oscar, Costa? Plug fillers? Yr right though. Mourinho plays percentages when its a big match. Who won the game though Westie? Check his trophy haul too. Im pretty sure Rodgers if asked now if he could have won by changing his tack, he d say yes. Runners up and losing teams down the history of football is full of teams who 'didnt deserve to lose'. Im never quite sure what the rationale is for people to arrive at that absolute conclusion. I always think it sounds a bit wimpishly bitter to be honest. Did you lament Stoke Citys loss 2 years on the bounce in 71 and 72 ? Most of us celebrated it? FAC 2005? Did you cry for Utd? I bet you didnt? We played ultimate % football that day. What about 1994? Did GG 'sell us short' by winning the Cup that night?. Most AFC fans im sure would love to be sold short a bit more instead of being led up the garden path chasing shadows. Theres an agenda v Mourninho from other Clubs fans and the media nd many refs. Jose has a point i feel. Hes on another planet to Wenger as a Coach mate, like , loath or indifferent to him.

  134. Badarse

    Jan 29, 2015, 15:22 #65843

    Time to bury the hatchet on my part Ron, though a 'Teddy' sounds nice. Never had one myself as a child-perhaps that's why I am as I am-living in t' hole in t' middle of t' road made it impracticable. My daughter lost her 'Teddy' out of the car window 43 years ago, on a motorway. She still misses it-what else can she stick her voodoo pins into?

  135. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 15:17 #65842

    SKG - Thats it mate ha. The thing is gung ho is ok v average forwards and journeymen midfielders. Its v the quality teams and players where gung ho becomes keystone cops. Im of the view that Arsenal and Wenger in pursuit of 4th think its OK to just do as they do as there are only ever 2 or 3 teams who can expose them? Leaving players to work defending out for themselves cant be right can it? Its a discipline and needs external coaching always i would have thought. Can you imagine Wenger sending a battalion into action? Righto, theres the enemy men. 'Go for it and work it out for yselves when they start firing and flanking you'.

  136. Westlower

    Jan 29, 2015, 14:59 #65841

    @Ron There are alternatives to your vision of how football should be played. Analysing Chelsea's performance over the two semi-final legs against Liverpool highlights the differences in philosophy between Maureen & Rodgers. In the away leg at Anfield, CFC never had a shot on target, save for a penalty. This was repeated at the Bridge when again CFC didn't have a shot on target in the first half. So the coach was content to try and win the game in the final quarter of the overall tie. This is safety first football in the extreme. The saving grace for CFC is the dazzling skills of Hazard, without him they are a side full of players whose task is to plug the leaks. All fine and dandy, percentage football with the coach taking the easy way out. Liverpool to their credit made the game an entertaining spectacle to watch and overall didn't deserve to lose. Pragmatism wins the day. Serial fouling won over creativity. Given the class of player available to Maureen I believe he sells them short.

  137. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 14:28 #65840

    Ron : I think what you are saying is until the full backs become defenders instead auxiliary wingers we will never know if our CB are any good. Needs someone, when Wenger leaves the room, to say "never mind that garbage, you ,you & you, if you cross the half way line once I'll chin you, and I never want to see our centre backs one on one" Arsene has always encouraged the players to work it out for themselves, now is their chance!

  138. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 29, 2015, 14:10 #65839

    Badarse, you mistake exposure for spite. If I see hypocrisy, contradiction, the lack of an actual argument, I'll expose it. 'Brian' was exposed and then laughed at, was that 'spiteful' of those that did it? Seems a pretty fair reaction to me. And this idea that support of an employee of the club should be unconditional, that they are above criticism - that's a child's perspective. That's what I thought when I was in the school playground, that the club, the manager and the players are one and the same. Then I grew up and learnt that to distinguish, to critique, to analyse, even to have a go within reason, are allowed. I guess that's 'bitchy' of me to point that out as well.

  139. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 14:09 #65838

    SKG - Totally mate. The lads a CB. Agree too that he needs a solid partner alongside him to develop the CB skills which are quite unique on a pitch. Its my view that a CB can only be as commanding to the extent that his full backs are supportive to the middle 2. At Arsenal theres a detachment between the FBs and the CBs. The FBs cant/wont step in to cover the CB. Dixon and Winterburn mastered this. Adams and Bould knew they had 'insurance'if they were stranded too far forward of if they strayed too wide. Wengers emphasis is for FBs to attack. He has both doing it together!. Its madness and its manna from heaven to the other teams Coach. Im sure Fergie used to laugh at the ease he could get Nani and Ronnie in behind them yr after yr after yr.The CBs at Arsenal are always having to look left and right and often the gap widens between them. City thought this would happen the other week and had Silva primed to run in to the chasm. If you add here the lack of a credible DM the issue is compounded isnt it. This is where Mourinho perfects his tactics in these areas and yet Wenger wont or simply cant see it.Chambers as a kid set against this back drop hasnt a chance of becoming a dominant CB. This new guy wont either unless the pattern is changed in my view. Essentially, Wenger out - Arsenal develop! PS 'Brian' - you remind me of this talking teddy bear that the book Club man has just brought into the office. Shall i order you one for a tete a tete togther?

  140. maguiresbridge gooners

    Jan 29, 2015, 13:50 #65837

    SKG, you can bet your last quid it is, the first thing OGL looks for is can he be a Harlem globe trotter if the answers yes the deals as good as done, if it not he'll fancy himself to turn him into one and do the deal anyway. like has been said before the more the fans want something and call for it, ie experienced one positional player/players who's good at one job the less chance there is of getting it/him. Another way of OGL sticking up two fingers and saying i'm the boss.

  141. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 13:27 #65836

    Ron : Do so agree about Chambers, the guy needs to play for sure but what is his best position?. For me he lacks pace to be a full back so he has to play as CB - what he needs more than anything is good coaching and I do think he will make a centre back but probably not at Arsenal. Your analogy with Phil Jones is spot on.

  142. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 13:27 #65835

    Westie, good couple of posts, well we do play like them more often than not, and our defence opens up quite often and we have quite a few players who like to preen themselves like one and we have a bald one and an old wrinkly on the bench.

  143. Badarse

    Jan 29, 2015, 13:21 #65834

    Ron, E/G, even David, you mistake evil for spite. E/G, most of your posts are quite bitchy, or spiteful, Ron's are laced with outright nastiness when offered to someone he sees as in contention, or on the other side of the fence. All quite natural I suppose. I recognise the beast in me and try, oh how I try, to control it. It bubbles out sometimes. Thing is in a natural environment I would just walk away from conflict, unless pressed. This medium allows for people to get away with comments that would not go unchallenged in real life. The other aspect of the written word is that there are no nuances, no smiles seen accompanying the verbiage, no little chuckles to soften the point, no positive body language or recognition of a throw away comment. It all disarms me, what it does to you lot is amusing. E/G, you have brushed with me before, are you an ex-sweeper? I want you to know I am a very forgiving chap, however I have a pachyderm's memory-I never forget. I forgive you my son, please rise and take your place at the head of the table. Incidentally, I am a very sensitive soul-I am allowed to be-but most of the time I am grinning from ear to ear when I type and quite happy with my lot. Can you say the same? Anyway enough of this dirge. Great goals? I was at Selhurst Park in November 1969. Memorable for a few reasons as notably the wonderful Double side was developing so well at this time. Hell of a job getting to the ground, then noticed Ronnie Corbett was standing nearby. I read the programme and had an instant example of the difference in class between the two clubs. There was an article about us which was extremely rude and insulting, (of course Ron and E/G would have disagreed with that). All the fans were discussing the article, (It found it's way into the Sunday papers), and set us up for the game. We won 1-5, and Stroller scored a magnificent one-two-volleyed goal, may have been with anyone but possibly Raddy. It won 'Goal of the Season' on 'The Big Match'. We played in those Swindon Cup Final yellows. A much better memory. The third person has gone fishing 24601.

  144. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 12:40 #65832

    SKG - Meant to say that Chambers (and maybe this new signing) could be exposed to the fate of Phil Jones at Utd by Wenger. He s a CB. They've made him lose his focus as a CB through being asked to double it up as a middle man. Hes ended up as neither. Hes now a 'utility' man! A nothing player like OShea ended up. Chambers deserves better and will maybe look for better in time if Wenger keeps f-----g him about.

  145. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 12:30 #65830

    SKG - its a good point you make however if hes anything like the Chelsea lad (always forget his name - he scored the other night v Liverpool) hes a good full back and accomplished CB. I really rate him. The thing is Wengers notions of players being interchangeable has no limits mate. Its been a big failing with him and never really worked. He used to laud Gilberto and Song as CB s and neither could play there effectively. Hes in the process of risking ruining Chambers because of his 'philosophy' but we all know its just a perverse way of trying to save money. A new CB i maintain isnt going to tighten much up at the back anyway save perhaps for a bit less turning backs in the face of shots and free kicks and ducking out of headers maybe. We live in hope.

  146. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 12:12 #65829

    Westlower : I just want him to play at centre half, no finding a game for him at full back please - centre half or nothing!

  147. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 11:45 #65828

    Westie - possibly set up if Schneiderlin thing happens as it might but the goal keeper? Still urgently needed i reckon. Paulista and Schneiderlin both ugly as well. Even better. Now lets gets some rotational fouling coached into these people!!

  148. John F

    Jan 29, 2015, 11:40 #65827

    SKG,What I have read about Paulista is that he is good in the air fast and aggressive on the negative side is that he needs to improve his distribution.I like that he stated that there is room for improvement in the Arsenal defence. Shows he is not worried about voicing his opinions. Could be just what we need.

  149. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 29, 2015, 11:35 #65826

    The following two quotes are from the same person: "you didn't let me down. Bet you haven't heard those last few words very often in your lifetime. Arsenal supporter my a*rse"; "I haven't got an ounce of spite in me".

  150. Westlower

    Jan 29, 2015, 11:34 #65825

    @SKG, He is also described as an old school centre half - just what the doctor ordered? If we can get Schneiderlin in the summer we're set fair for 2015/16. @Badarse, As I've lost my money betting on your #3 please put me out of my misery by naming the dastardly fiend? It's not the Northern Irish Negative Endorser is it or NINE to his friends?

  151. Shakey

    Jan 29, 2015, 10:45 #65824

    Ron - the lady doth protest too much, youthinks?

  152. Westlower

    Jan 29, 2015, 10:45 #65823

    The American influence at the Emirates is even worse than we thought. Stan was toying with the idea of renaming Arsenal, Fannynal because Arse didn't mean diddly squat to an all American boy! We could then change our nickname to the Fannies. Come on you Fannies! It has a certain ring to it don't you think.

  153. Westlower

    Jan 29, 2015, 10:30 #65822

    @David. I'm seeking financial advise as my conscious is bothering me. Should I pay my considerable amount of taxes to the UK or USA governments? Contrary to what some believe, Stan is a very generous paymaster. God bless America & all who sail in her! You limeys say Arse & Yanks say fanny, but there's no such thing as Badarse or bad fanny is there?

  154. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 10:18 #65821

    These 'crosses' eh bad lad! The sheer weight of them. I often think that when some one claims not to be or not to have this or that within them as you're at great pains to so do, its actually a statement of self denial and more an admission that what's denied is exactly what the person is and what's more they know it too. You're fooling nobody and the posters here queuing up to denounce you seem to add weight to the theory. Keep digging that hole though if you insist old fella.

  155. David

    Jan 29, 2015, 10:07 #65820

    Hello to you too Badarse. Good to see you've recharged your batteries and back in business. Isn't 'getting even' a fairly spiteful thing?

  156. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 29, 2015, 10:02 #65819

    Guys : Just read the Arsenal website re Paulista I quote "Primarily a centre back - can also play left back or right back" Oh dear, Arsene please tell me he can head high balls, stand his ground and hurt when he tackles. Nacho Monreal also plays full back and centre half, just not very well! Please someone tell this is not another utility player like Chambers & Nacho!

  157. Badarse

    Jan 29, 2015, 10:01 #65818

    Morning my little bowls of Cheerios, it's easy for little mouths to get chomping and slurping on them, though Bard finds disfavour in them as they keep getting hooked on his fangs. Ron, haven't got a smidgen of spite in me, that's another cross you have to lug about, and another wrong call/interpretation. Methinks you misunderstand much in human nature. I either get out, or get even, and have all the time, here and in life. It has served me well. Why I got out of the basement of Central Command, didn't I? A special good morning to maguiresbridge, C/G, Hiccup and David too. Sorry 24601, you lose your stake on Hiccup, he remains my Hancock of the Gooner and has made me chuckle a few times whilst I was interviewing new applications for prospective AKBs. Didn't realise a test has to be passed before admittance did you peeps? The pass mark is Bergy standard top marks, followed by Alex James, Jon Sammels, Alex Hleb, and Mesut Ozil. Borderline pass is a bountiful one of Stroller, Charlie, Bally, Pires, oh susej, the list goes on and on. One of the signs of an elite club?

  158. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 29, 2015, 9:58 #65817

    Blimey Brianarse, you are a sensitive soul. You go through a charade which you yourself described as 'silly', then instead of taking the ribbing with good grace, descend into spite and self-importance. I had enjoyed the whole episode and was glad you'd come full circle, but if what's said on here really gets to you that much, perhaps you should think again, as I doubt it'll change.

  159. David

    Jan 29, 2015, 9:47 #65816

    @Westlower - you've given the game away! Who would use the word 'diaper' other than an American spy in the pay of Stan Kroenke? Who is this man of lust greed and glory? Rip off the mask and let's see... Maybe Lower West Side is more appropriate.

  160. Westlower

    Jan 29, 2015, 9:03 #65815

    @Badarse, "There's only ONE BADARSE, one Badarse..." Wear your moniker with pride & continue to educate the rebellious riff raff. Their idea of a perfect football team is one where the players never make a mistake and the game ends as an inevitable 0-0. They then contradict themselves by slaughtering the coach for being devoid of tactical nous. They believe a coach is like a diaper & should be changed often! Their analysis of a game is picking out the highlights, three in the middle, keeping it nice and tight, don't give the opposition room to move & the old favourite of get in their faces. If an opponent outsmarts you, two-foot him & leave him in a crumbled heap on the ground or launch him into the hoardings. The ubiquitous Robbie Savage is their idol, especially when he opines that defenders should never fail to head a ball clear or man-mark a forward so closely he can never find room to score. Maureen carries out this ideology to perfection & is regarded as the highest form of being on the planet. Putting on my bookies hat I reckon Hiccup is odds on for the #3 spot?

  161. Ron

    Jan 29, 2015, 8:36 #65814

    Good old Bad lad. You take this massage board far too seriously. Nobody has 'opponents' save for you i suspect. Youve made a chump of yself with yr failed alter ego scam/s, been rumbled and yet choose to use a mix of the arrogance and spite that we re all accustomed to from you on here, as you wriggle and try to climb out of your hole in the face of a bit of rib tickling. Its a bit pathetic isn't it for a grown bloke? Take it on the chin and you might be respected for doing so. Us chums are genuinely glad to see the old thorny Badarse back, sermons, lectures and all. Be pleased that we are. Its wise not to spitefully throw the lifeline back in other posters faces surely. R.I.P Brian and Ben C! Carry on regardless Bad lad. Take a moment to digest and think on yr response chum. Posters all im sure are shoulder to shoulder with our old Baddie, back in rude health from his cyber grave!

  162. Charlie George Orwell

    Jan 29, 2015, 8:05 #65813

    Have just discovered that ‘Defender Gabriel Paulista’ is an anagram of ‘Defeat a real big nerd Pulis’. Is this a sign?

  163. Hiccup

    Jan 29, 2015, 7:08 #65812

    Welcome back Baddie! Back to full strength on the good side. Let me guess at no 3. Is it your old 'chum' julesd? She's got a wicked tongue on her!

  164. David

    Jan 28, 2015, 23:15 #65811

    So the last post gives way to the first call...At last, Badarse!

  165. A Cornish Gooner (Incognito)

    Jan 28, 2015, 22:57 #65810

    Welcome back Monsieur Madeleine.

  166. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 22:44 #65809

    Badarse, wasn't expecting to be no three but won't make any guesses at this stage will wait and see how others fair out as they welcome you back from your terrible experience in the basement of central command (i'm sure bear grylls would be proud) in they're own unique way.

  167. James

    Jan 28, 2015, 21:45 #65808

    spuds v chavs in the comical Mickey Mouse procession this year,sure fire snore fest.

  168. Badarse

    Jan 28, 2015, 21:30 #65807

    maguiresbridge you were not number three. Ironically the whole internet via Sky was down today in this area so it nearly was a 'no posting' day again. Here's one for you, skeleton goes into a pub. Orders a pint of Guinness and a mop. Well he was an Irish skeleton. Thank you for the kind response, I shall give you updates on Central Command over the next few days-had some surprising visitors when we had our 'Open Day'. Captain Frank, like your namesake, you did better than good; he was to me the greatest footballer that has ever lived. I would have run through a wall for him, now I'd probably have to take the wall down a brick at a time, but would still try. By the way, I was there that day against Liverpool, nestling happily in the North Bank. Did many notice wee Geordie take a free kick with his left foot and a corner with his right? What a little giant of a player.

  169. Badarse

    Jan 28, 2015, 21:16 #65806

    Ron, you were second on my list, but didn't expect you to follow E/G so eagerly, I know how having to play second fiddle in any way to anyone, really gets to you. I remember your reaction to my praise of Bard, he got a few digs from you for a few posts-all very predictable. I am quite good at assessing my opponents, and my third name on the list will be along shortly; I do only have the three names, though am sure quite a number are queuing up in mind if not presence. I can't stay mad at you though fella, despite your loud and aggressive approach-Desiderata and all that-you know too much. As an endorsement your analysis of the three bands of coaching whereby the defence acts as the base, getting the main tuition and guidance, meaning the midfield plays off their understanding, and almost free rein to the attack providing they fulfil expected duties whenever required is absolutely spot on. Well in my book it is anyway. You did call it wrong though, which is another cross you have to bear, oh how heavy this is getting, ha ha. I had decided to walk away, though never wanted to as I really enjoyed my time on here mucking about. It just seemed a bit futile posting with all the constant griping. Then I thought I might just let Badarse die. I missed the posting especially the 'geeing up', and thought I might just begin again with a more controlled approach, without that toxic name which brought the usual crackpot criticisms. I never tried to disguise my style, that wouldn't have served. I reasoned that if a couple of weeks went by I would be accepted as a 'git' by the usual suspects, but a new 'git'. Oh and by the way, just to add another cross, that's two more than Theo made against Brighton, it wasn't westlower's birthday. I respectfully avoided that day. His was on the 20th-I was there, as he needed help blowing out so many candles. No quarter asked Ron, none given.

  170. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 20:58 #65805

    Just got back in from this Irish snow and made myself a hot punch, poteen of course, and low and behold Dr Moon has returned from his huff, sorry break (longer than usual) anywhere nice? what was it this time Baddie (Brian Brain Casey) lets stick to Baddie shall we? a break in when you were away at one of your pantomimes and you had to replace everything computer, lap top, phone, even your new router. Welcome back Baddie what is it you always say? custard pies at the ready.

  171. Captain Frank

    Jan 28, 2015, 20:40 #65804

    Great to have you back Badarse and apologies for rumbling you on the other thread. Let's just say you have a distinctive posting style which stands out a mile - please take that as a compliment. Love this thread, not least because the great Captain Frank is praised to the hilt by everyone. More nostalgia Mr Editor.

  172. Ron

    Jan 28, 2015, 20:31 #65803

    Well well well. Good old Baddie, though the comrades new name of Brianarse is likely to remain in situ for you i suspect. I can only guess that Central Command went on their Winter shutdown, forgot you were still in the basement and they locked up and left you there till they re opened by which time you had hallucinated for want of food and water and became 'Brian'? It must have been terrible. Either this or you thought you could pull off the new persona, got rumbled, panicked, returned to the basement again to consider how you could escape from the hole you d dug with minimal embarrassment and hey presto, here you are with fingers crossed, hoping for the best, saying it was a jokey rumble rather than admitting it was a serious go at re inventing a new poster that went tragically wrong? tut tut Brian, i mean Brianarse.... erm Baddie. Welcome back buddie, you barmy blighter. Needless to say you fooled old Westie who surely charmed you and tweaked a guilt pang or two when he called 'Brian' 'Brain'. On his bday too, Hopefully you dont have to be known now as Brianbrainsinhisbadarse! Mate, you dont mind if we rib you and have a party over this charade do you? It wont be long. A few months tops! Good to hear from you, you old dog.

  173. Badarse

    Jan 28, 2015, 19:07 #65802

    Ha ha E/G. I could have laid odds, had I been westlower, that the first viper spitting poison would be you. I have a list of names and you were top-you didn't let me down. Bet you haven't heard those last few words very often in your lifetime. Arsenal supporter my a*rse. Be quiet Jim!

  174. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 28, 2015, 18:08 #65801

    Don't apologise, Brianarse. It was hilarious that you pretended to be someone totally new, and it's even more hilarious that you've now owned up to it. And making a comment about 'doesn't have a crack' which itself opens back up that crack shows a delightful lack of awareness. I assume you will now keep up the comedy chameleon personas? Where else is there to go?

  175. radfordkennedy

    Jan 28, 2015, 17:30 #65800

    SkG...I think the club have offered a ships tin of 50 navy cut players,but the lads agent wants a zippo lighter as well to clinch the deal.

  176. Badarse

    Jan 28, 2015, 17:11 #65799

    Afternoon gentlemen, and gentlewomen. Such an interesting thread, type of exchanges I enjoy, especially as whatever is posted doesn't have a crack for Dark Moanies to slither through and sink their poisonous fangs into Arsene Wenger. Apologies for those other posts, it was a silly attempt to post without a toxic moniker of 'Badarse'.

  177. Ron

    Jan 28, 2015, 17:10 #65798

    SKG - Yes. All day long mate. 71 team for me too. I suppose where we are and were in our footie supporting lives shape the 'fave' team we have. Raddie and Charlie, Willow, wee Geordie and Frank though? Just the best weren't they!!That team followed the bleak mid 60s as well so its success resonated against that backdrop didnt it.

  178. Westlower

    Jan 28, 2015, 16:49 #65797

    @GCO, It wasn't the Forest game as the goals were scored by Ray Kennedy 3 & George Armstrong in a 4-0 win in 1970. It was so long ago the memory remains vague but it may have been in a 4-0 win v Man U, a 6-2 win v WBA, a 4-0 win v Everton, a 2-1 win v Wolves or a 2-0 win v West Ham, GG scored in those games. When I get time I'll have to go back through some old clips.

  179. Charlie George Orwell

    Jan 28, 2015, 15:50 #65796

    Thanks Westie. Was it against Forest? Have to say that one of the best goals I ever saw at Highbury was Martin Hayes against France - yes, France - in a (2-0?) friendly in the 80's.

  180. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 28, 2015, 15:47 #65795

    Maybe Frank McLintock under Wenger would have worked; Tony Adams gives a clue. Adams told Petit and Vieira to give the defence more protection and suddenly it all clicked. You've got to think that Frank would have taken on managing the team in the same way.

  181. Bard

    Jan 28, 2015, 15:45 #65794

    SKG; He's in the treatment room checking out his new home.

  182. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 15:38 #65792

    Bye the way guys any news on our new centre half yet? Probably the sticking point will be the Luncheon Vouchers.

  183. Westlower

    Jan 28, 2015, 14:59 #65791

    Who remembers George Best hustling Peter Storey into an own goal at Highbury? Storey in possession of the ball, ran towards his own goal with Best hot on his heels, resulting in Storey panicking & putting the ball into his own net. It was revenge for an earlier incident when Storey deposited Best into the front row of the West Lower with his first tackle of the game.

  184. mark from aylesbury

    Jan 28, 2015, 14:17 #65790

    I'll say one thing about those links to the 70's games apart from being really bitter sweet as I think about how old I am getting. Looking at the West Ham game in the cup there are loads of youngsters in the crowd. Very sad that we are pricing out so that increasingly only the over 30's are attending

  185. Westlower

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:57 #65787

    @CGO, GG's goal you described was one of the best ever scored at Highbury. Took your breath away. So also did Wrighty's against Everton at the mural end during the North Bank rebuild.

  186. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:53 #65786

    Rumpole, yes and in that day and age too, and he never looked to have a physique more slim to skinny weaving in and out avoiding tackles scoring the perfect goal. Now there's a player who would fit into wengers team and regime.

  187. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:53 #65785

    Ron : just before Christmas my mates I discussed "if your life depended on it which team would you select to win a game to save your life" The 91 team came out on top, won the league in a canter, only one defeat and tore up some so called top teams on the way. Still love my 71 just a wee bit more.

  188. Tony Evans

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:51 #65784

    Interesting debate about football class - top five for me have to be (in no particular order) Arsenal, Utd, Liverpool, Everton and Villa. Irrespective of trophies won or current league position; you can't by class and Chelsea / City just don't have it. So what I expect their fans would say but it has always mattered to me. As for the Law, Charlton, Best debate it has to be GB for me - a player you would move heaven and earth to see.

  189. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:39 #65783

    Ron, Best is still thought a lot of over here too not his club as you say but go into any N, Ireland supporters Club especially in and around Belfast (most he had a pint in) and his memorabilia dons the walls from signed shirts, photo's, footballs, etc, strictly look don't touch, although it seems his brother isn't in the same category as he got beat up the other night.

  190. Tony Evans

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:35 #65782

    Any excuse for a trip down memory lane is good to me. That 70/71 team still gives me so much pleasure when I think about them. This was the side that started it all for me, and it was such a shame that it was broken up much too quickly. Who would have guessed we would be flirting with relegation only a few years later? Ron - agree with your view that the 91 side were as good, or maybe even better than the 2004 team. They are never given the credit they deserve, and the huge number of goals they scored is never mentioned. It certainly wasn't always 1-0 to The Arsenal, far from it.

  191. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:25 #65779

    Ron : You are so right about the Villa - nearest to Arsenal in terms of football tradition, probably ahead of us actually because they still have that wonderful ground Villa Park. We are both owned by Americans now so it is all about profit but Villa are so far ahead of Chelsea/Citeh in terms of class and history, a great English football team. R & K: I would take Best every time even though Bobby Charlton is my dear mum in law's pin up!

  192. Charlie George Orwell

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:20 #65778

    Fantastic trip down memory lane to a time a little after I first started going to THE Arsenal. How wonderful to see Geordie on his marauding runs, the utter class that was FMc (on and off the pitch) and the kids running on at the final whistle to get close to their heroes without the riot police being mobilised. Great comments at the end re front men working for the team (the best in an Arsenal shirt was Rocky, maybe?). Great goal from Arsenal-through-and-through GG, but does anyone remember a goal he scored (v Notts Forest c 1970?) when direct from a corner he chested the ball onto his thigh and then volleyed it in? Was totally in awe at that one!

  193. David

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:19 #65777

    Easy to forget how good that side was - especially GG, CG, FM, Ray - also how much the double meant back then. It was more than just accumulating trophies...

  194. Ron

    Jan 28, 2015, 13:17 #65776

    R/K - Hi mate. I wd still pick Georgie. Charlton and Law were brilliant and Law was maybe the best header of a ball ive seen yet he was only 5 feet 10! Charlton was strong and cultured and had a bullet shot. Id have all 3 but as youre limiting the choice ill go for GB. He would score 40 a season like Ronaldo does v todays bloody rubbish defences, he d beat a great many teams on his own and stick 10000 on the gate every week while he did it. Id also pick him as he would be the one player who id pay to go and see even if the team was garbage. Theres not one single player in that PL now who id pay to just see him alone. Not sure Wenger could cope with Georgie though. He never did wear a choir boys robe did he!! As you say, GG and CG wouldnt last long either. No dissenting voices get far in Wengers dressing room i suspect. We have to be honest and say that of all the Clubs in this Country, none have consistently had such great 'cavalier' players as Utd. Not in my view anyway. I do have to laugh at some of the fools on here who say Utd have always been a 'hoofball' team. Do they ever see beyond Wenger? They speak of great football being imported by him. Its a fooking joke. Utd, Everton of 1970 vintage. Chelsea of late 60s and early 70s vintage, WBA under Atkinson on 1977 - 81 vintage. All egs of far better footballing teams than Wengers ever produced in my view.Im not just saying this as i think Wengers a fraud by and large but because its true! In my view of course. I say that if any of those teams had modern facilities and conditioning, Wengers best wouldnt live with any of them. I also think our 91 team given the same privileges would see off Wengers best as well.

  195. radfordkennedy

    Jan 28, 2015, 12:52 #65775

    Great article,goosebumps time if I'm honest..personally I think Frank would have suited Aw but I'm not so sure about Stroller and Charlie.... Ron SkG..Bard..as a matter of interest if you had to pick one from Best,Law or Charlton to fill a forward line,would you still go for Best.

  196. Gaz

    Jan 28, 2015, 12:47 #65774

    That Villa team from 81 sure was a great side! I remember vividly when they won the title at Highbury-what a day that was! Both sets of fans delighted with the outcome (we'd qualified for the UEFA cup by winning 2-0) and the only time I made it on to the hallowed turf (took a handful of it home with me!). And to round it all off the great Pele was there too!...

  197. Ron

    Jan 28, 2015, 12:23 #65771

    SKG - Gary Shaw was such a talent wasnt he. I saw many of Villa s 81 title wiing teams games and quite a few of the EC winning games the year after when Tony Barton win the EC with them, They were a very good side. Lived in Warwick at the time. Rimmer in goal Mortimer Withe Shaw Cowans Evans Gibson Morley McNaught Des Bremner (who i know quite well!) and Co. Good days. Massive crowds at Villa Park those days. They really should be a challenging Club in my view. Big support and its a great stadium now.Good hunting ground for Arsenal and has been for years! Aston Villa dwarf Chelsea as a Club in every way. Football is the poorer for such Clubs decline in my view.

  198. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 11:44 #65770

    Good post Ron, Charlie Hughes - Graham Taylor's mentor! Bard, kind of you to call Harris's criminal lunge at Best a tackle. Don't laugh guys but the nearest player I saw who had Best's balance was Gary Shaw, a really great player who sadly was kicked out of football. I loved watching him in that excellent Villa team.

  199. Rumpole

    Jan 28, 2015, 11:08 #65767

    Hard to believe that Bestie wouldn't even wear shin pads!

  200. Ron

    Jan 28, 2015, 11:03 #65766

    Hi lads - i loved Georgie. The best accolade i can give to him is that i detested his Club but loved him.For me he transecnded Club loyalties. As young lads we all wanted to be him didnt we. In football here, i still dont think theres been a superstar like him. I used to scrimp beg and borrow money to go see Utd whenever they were near to where i was living and just go to see him. Saw him at Wolves one night and he tortured Parkin their full back in the most complete way. 3-1 Utd. Wolves had a good side then. Dougan Richards Wagstaffe Munro and Co. Many Utd fans became Utd fans in the 60s and early 70s and i can understand why. It was GB. No Club could match his calibre of player. A true entertainer and as hard as he needed to be. PS I dont buy all this ' we re 20, 30 yrs behind the foreigners' stuff. How exact can you be? We just dont play such a cerebral game as the Europeans and lets be honest most of our Clubs are a match for most of theres. Its only the money laden euro Clubs who better us most of the time.The climate here has historically shaped the way we play football. Slow slow tippay tappy isnt suited to northern Europe i wouldnt have thought is it? I accept that people like Charles Hughes has imprinted our game with long ball stuff though. I think we re gradually leaving that behind in fairness. The FA and its archaic set up is much to blame for our lack of progress in football but the PL holds football back now as its just cash cash cash. Each yr the quality of play declines in my view.

  201. Bard

    Jan 28, 2015, 10:26 #65765

    SKG; Im absolutely with you. Best was a genius in a day when you had to be brave or stupid to play up front. The tackle that chopper Harris tried to make on him when he was through on goal still makes me wince when i see it. He rode it and still tucked it away. A tragedy that he was lost to the game at 27.

  202. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 28, 2015, 8:33 #65763

    We are building: can't argue with you regarding the 74 & 78 England teams but surely that was the FA not the players. Our British managers won the top honours and remember it was the FA that decided that Clough was not suitable to manage England! As a final piece the finest player I have ever seen in over 50 years of watching football was George Best - British and for me by a country mile the most complete footballer ever, just think how good he would have been if had taken football seriously!

  203. Westlower

    Jan 28, 2015, 8:28 #65762

    Quote from Frank McLintock on TalkSport re Wenger: "Arsenal supporters, including myself, don't want to see him go because he is the best manager we ever had. One trophy in 8 years is not good enough even though you are paying off the Emirates debt. For the last 2 years or so we should have been splashing out & getting some top players in because I feel we are a big club but I don't think we act like a big club. And it is about time we did"

  204. Martyn

    Jan 28, 2015, 8:19 #65761

    I was there in the crowd and rate George Graham's goal as one of the best I've seen. Great atmosphere and a great team.

  205. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 28, 2015, 7:57 #65760

    Seven Kings Gooner; I hear what you say, but during that "long dominance" when the European Cup was won 5 years in a row by English sides, what did the national team do? Didn't qualify for the '74 or '78 World Cups, didn't qualify for the '76 or '84 European Championships, (stunk out the 1980 one in Italy), qualified for Spain '82 only because of Romania self-destructing in the last qualifier...i could go on and on. FF to the mid 1990's....the Italians had already tried 3-5-2 and reverted back to 4-4-2....here in England 3-5-2 was seen as some kind of a revolutionary new formation. It took overseas cast-offs and mercenaries coming over here in the early PL days to show us how to play the game again.

  206. JAMIE

    Jan 27, 2015, 20:47 #65757

    I love the honesty of the footballers of yesteryear.I do agree some posters seem to have an unnatural obsession with Wenger,every single article seems to get turned into a Wenger bashing session.I'de rather have my mind on a beautiful woman than constantly meditating about a wrinkly faced old French man.

  207. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 27, 2015, 20:41 #65756

    Bard, indeed that was something i was more or less referring to, would OGL have someone like him in the team today? (or even as a no two) or the coaching staff, a no nonsense captain, a no nonsense hard player, who would lets just say keep these players right and more importantly the defenders and even more importantly the manager, who wouldn't be afraid to say what he thought to any of the above, like i said i think we know the answer to that and why.

  208. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 27, 2015, 20:09 #65754

    goonercolesyboy, why bother to ask a question if your going to answer it. Anyway as far as i'm concerned what i said is relevant and i don't think for one second it's untrue.

  209. Bard

    Jan 27, 2015, 20:03 #65753

    MG it is an interesting question how Frank would have faired under Wenger.

  210. Hiccup

    Jan 27, 2015, 19:26 #65749

    Great stuff! Well if you didn't know who won that game, Frank's smile would have given it away. Remember avoiding the news/results for midweek matches when football was shown on Sportsnight or Midweek Sports Special. That smile would have ballsed it up! Used to get comprehensive highlights back then unlike the current MOTD's two minute coverage of all games, and then spending more time analysing highlights that weren't even shown in the first place?

  211. goonercolesyboy

    Jan 27, 2015, 18:39 #65747

    Maguiresbridge.....what is your problem? A really good piece and you still have to stick your knife into Wenger...sad man you obviously are.

  212. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jan 27, 2015, 18:26 #65746

    Great video nice piece of nostalgia, oh to have a young Frank McLintock as Captain today he'd take no crap and teach these fairies we have a thing or two, that's why wenger wouldn't have him or his like about the place.

  213. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 27, 2015, 17:17 #65743

    We are building a team : We were not 20 years behind Europe in the 60's - World Cup winners 66, European Cup winners 67 & 68. Then the long dominance in the late seventies and eighties by Forest & Liverpool, no it is money that has f*cked English football. The more money we throw at football the worse it gets in the England PL - the 1970's England world cup team was probably the best ever to leave these shores and but for illness it would have reached the 1970 final.

  214. Bard

    Jan 27, 2015, 17:15 #65742

    Fabulous clip. I dont think the game has changed but the players have. They are loyal to nothing but the dosh. I suspect its harder to manage teams now because despite all the tosh they come out with they really only care about themselves and the money. Winning trophies is a bonus.

  215. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 27, 2015, 15:52 #65740

    Probably fair to say English football hasn't changed that much. The emphasis then, as now, remains on hard running, "getting in their faces" and getting the ball forward as soon as possible. As long as that way of coaching continues our football was, is, and will continue to be, 20 years behind the rest of Europe. Right now the standard overall is as bad as I can remember and I've been watching the game since the mid 1970's.

  216. Peter Wain

    Jan 27, 2015, 13:54 #65729

    If only we had a captain like McLintock now. Also could do with Storey as our holding midfield player none better.

  217. Robert Exley

    Jan 27, 2015, 13:50 #65728

    On the issue of 1970/71 season, there was a victory against Stoke 48 hours before the White Hart Lane match where we won 1-0, which was supposedly covered by the Big Match yet I've never seen any footage of it anywhere. I wonder if anyone can track it down and upload it on YouTube?

  218. chris dee

    Jan 27, 2015, 13:44 #65726

    Nothing less than ' Sir Francis McLintock 'will be enough for a man who still uses 'we' when talking about Arsenal. They call him 'old school' but blimey,I wish we could instill some of his 'old school' character and grit into some of our current players.

  219. Spaced

    Jan 27, 2015, 13:37 #65725

    Thanks Kevin, great video clip and an interesting interview too.

  220. DGooner

    Jan 27, 2015, 12:47 #65721

    Highbury boy. That incident was in 1973, F.A cup Qtr Final replay v Chelsea. Initially a free kick was given outside the box, but Frank managed to persuade the ref to talk to the lino who confirmed a Pen.

  221. Ron

    Jan 27, 2015, 12:43 #65720

    John F - the tackle now that preceded the save at Heighways feet there in the clip would attract a pen now and a dozen players demanding bookings and red card etc. Similarly the tackle that won the ball before Grahams goal would likely get a whistle for the foul and thus a disallowed goal. So called top level football today is pretty pathetic in my view.

  222. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 27, 2015, 12:37 #65718

    Glad we have not got a statue of Frank at the moment because when we do finally strike one for him it can be 10 times bigger than the other ones surrounding the Em*r*tes Bowl. Better still why not erect the statue in the gardens of Highbury Stadium Square - on it's own of course as that would be more fitting!

  223. John F

    Jan 27, 2015, 12:30 #65717

    The cheating and diving was rare back then but my first memory of a player playacting was Emlyn Hughes in the mid seventies rolling around on the floor clutching his face when it was clear he was not touched.Hot topic at the time but if it happened now I doubt it would even get a mention.

  224. Highbury Boy

    Jan 27, 2015, 12:17 #65716

    Brought back great memories of that match and that wonderful season. I saw the tail end of Joe Mercer's career and of course all of Tony Adams' career but Frank was perhaps the greatest captain. I recall that just before a game started he used to go round the young players with a word of encouragement. I will give you one example of what a special captain he was. I think it was a Cup match (possibly League Cup?) v Norwich when George Armstrong was racing through and was fouled on the edge of the box. It was on the West side. Loads of players clamoured round the ref. Frank ran the length of the pitch and got all the Arsenal players away from the ref and then persuaded the ref to go to the linesman who had his flag raised. After discussion a penalty was given. Thanks to Captain Marvel……...Frank.

  225. Ron

    Jan 27, 2015, 12:03 #65715

    The games not changed much as you say. Its faster now due to pitch improvements though Highbury was always good, but the skill sets are the same. The cheating and diving now would be alien to players back then, apart from say Francis Lee aka 'one lee pen'! Winning crunch games like that would be alien to Wenger and the discipline that team had isnt some thing he could coach or maintain in my view that's for sure.

  226. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 27, 2015, 11:49 #65714

    Great Post Kevin : I was at that game and it was hard going for us especially with Heighway's pace on the break. However the collectiveness of the team and Howe's excellent coaching got us through so many tight games like that. Really interesting discussion between Jimmy & Frank about how difficult a pressing game can be if you do not share the load. What I would give for Frank to be our captain now - worth at least 10 points per season!

  227. John F

    Jan 27, 2015, 11:38 #65713

    Thank you Kevin brought back some good memories. Great sides all have traits in common and that is a good work ethic to go along with the skill and dare I say Tactics.That side would not of carried passengers.It will be interesting to see what Wenger will do with his over abundance of midfield players and how he is going to keep them all happy.I also enjoyed hearing the great Brian Moore.Eternal Truths could also apply to match of the day as regards the format of the Big match.Intelligent interviews and comment not a load of golf buddy ex has been pros over hyping incidents.I have to record MOTD just so I can fast forward the likes of Savage and Phil Neville who I did not respect as players let alone pundits.