Valuable Scrappy 3 points at Palace

Online Ed: Arsenal survive ‘The Alamo’



Valuable Scrappy 3 points at Palace

Holmesdale End: Wonder why they didn’t show this on Match of the Day?


Arsenal’s impressive record at Selhurst Park continued for another season with a not too convincing win at Palace yesterday. Fans hark back to the good old days in comparison with modern soulless bowl stadiums like the E******s, but once arriving at the the ground yesterday, the away fans took 15 minutes to get past the queues generated by body search security checks, given the limited number of entrances. Granted there are delays at Arsenal’s ground when everyone turns up in the last 15 minutes, but at least the queues move with some kind of pace, about eight times quicker than outside the Arthur Wait Stand by my reckoning. I did note that the home fans were not body searched, although this is often par for the course. Maybe away fans go through more stringent checks at Arsenal.

I was stood about two thirds of the way back facing the edge of the six yard box, with a pillar obscuring my view of the Holmesdale Road end penalty spot, and could see just about enough of the ball when it went into the air to make sense of the game. Those in the 20 rows or so behind me would have struggled more when the ball went high. Not that Palace played a Stoke-style game. They certainly relied on power and crosses, but Alan Pardew’s side were not playing the percentage football often seen in Stoke v Arsenal games. Given the state of the pitch, this might have been a better option, and physically, at times, it did look a bit like men against boys comparing the physiques of the two teams.

The playing surface certainly goes a long way to explaining why Arsenal struggled to put together a coherent game, and why the match was relegated to last but one on ‘Match of the Day’ last night. The only doubt about the award of the penalty was whether it was inside or outside the area, and on an afternoon when it felt like Mark Clattenburg favoured the home side a little too often for comfort, at least that key decision went the Gunners’ way. It was early enough in the game for some of those that arrived five minutes before kick off not to have taken their places.

The match then developed some kind of a pattern. Palace getting most of their joy using the flanks and giving the Arsenal full backs a good work out, creating a lot of pressure, but with little in the way of end product. Arsenal weathered it, and scored on one of their rare forays forward just before half-time after the Eagles’ keeper could only parry Danny Welbeck’s shot. Olivier Giroud was following up as a good centre forward should and took his chance. 2-0 at the interval, but one felt that if Palace scored, it would have made life very difficult, as Arsenal had rarely managed to put more than three meaningful passes together.

In the second half, the pressure continued, Oliver Giroud calling it like ‘Fort Alamo’ after the game. Credit to the Arsenal defence and Ospina (we’ll forgive him the moment of madness when he came to claim the ball at the edge of his box and ended up heading it away as he realized he might not catch it inside the area), all of whom did well given the circumstances. The home side created better chances than they had before the interval, largely thanks to the influence of substitute Bolasie before the hour. Arsenal did though, fathom up the odd chance to make it 3-0, the move in which Ozil set up Alexis to fire just wide the best one of the game as far as the Gunners were concerned. Ozil had a looping header which only just went over, a bit of a collectors’ item, and Kieran Gibbs had a decent opportunity to fashion a goal on the break, but indecision cost him.

Wenger’s substitutions did seem to invite the opposition on even more, with Gibbs replacing Welbeck, but his team got away with it, if only just. The closing minutes were frantic. A shot from wide almost caught Ospina out, but his reactions were top drawer. The Palace goal, deep into injury time was a scramble. Penalty area pinball, and difficult to avoid once the ball was not initially cleared. As for the heart attack last gasp effort, from my pew in the corner at the far end of the pitch, the reaction of the crowd made me think it had gone in for a second, and then I saw it was in Ospina’s arms. I thought he had saved it until I caught Match of the Day later on and saw it had come back to him off the post. The away section is probably the worst place to see what the hell is going on in a game when the ball is down the other end. In that moment, Arsenal got lucky, and that could prove very significant by the end of the season in terms of final placings.

Palace will be gutted. They played well, and in all truth, probably deserved the win more than Arsenal. At the end, moments of quality told. Welbeck’s chasing the ball down and robbing the defender to set up the penalty. The same player’s creating the second with an incisive shot which the keeper could only parry. Ultimately, the Gunners defended better than Pardew’s team and that’s what gave them the points. They might have looked very odd with yellow shorts and yellow socks instead of the normal away kit, but a potential banana skin was avoided. It didn’t make for great viewing, a scrappy game on a dreadful surface, but there have been enough matches of this ilk that Arsenal have lost in the past, so let’s be grateful they did the job and secured the three points that were needed to get the season back on track after the disappointment of their previous away outing.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

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  1. Saigon Gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:06 #67537

    Strange that Selhurst now has such a good atmosphere - going there in the '70s and '80s it was one of the least atmospheric of grounds, two open ends with the noise carried away. Fair play to the new generation of Palace fans.

  2. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 25, 2015, 23:55 #67408

    No problem Chris.

  3. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 25, 2015, 23:32 #67406

    Chris - made the connection yet WHY you've read that post a few times over the last 2-3 years?

  4. Chris

    Feb 25, 2015, 22:58 #67402

    Sorry Cornish - Where did I deny having said that? I denied, and deny, having told anyone to 'eff off down the lane', which is a particular retort often used to rebuke negative WOBs. I never denied your quote - in fact said everything you quoted was true! So your post showed nothing, other than I was rightly standing up to a complete nutter who came on here threatening violence, asking where in the stadium folk sat etc etc. If you feel the need for an apology because I guessed that you might be 'Crimewatch' based on your shared curious habitat of going through the archives (can't think of many things more boring myself), then you're obviously much more sensitive than the average inhabitant of places like this but feel free - I'm sorry if you genuinely felt slighted by that guess. Exeter - have you been at it as well? I'm sure I've read that post a few times of the past 2-3 years. Anyway chaps, you've succeeded in boring me into submission, for tonight anyway - so cheerio.

  5. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 25, 2015, 22:37 #67396

    Chris. After suggesting that you hadn't actually said what I wrote re. your 'eff off' comment, I re posted your 49089 post in its entirety, to remind you of what you did in fact say. Whether you think it was justified or not, it's what you said. Not sure why you gleefully suggest it was an own goal. No I don't disagree with your sentiment that there is no place for 'eff off' on this site (under any circumstances). Nor is there any need to suggest that somebody is the founding member of the See You Next Tuesday club, nor is there any need to describe any group as Les Tossers. Now to your later post 70951. Your guess is wrong. Though I wouldn't describe it as a 'hilariously pathetic' guess. Funnily enough at the time of posting I WAS at my (humble) day job (I'm not a professional scientist like you), so I can't post at 17.29. A simple check on my past posting times should have shown you that Inspector Clouseau. Anyway apology accepted.

  6. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 25, 2015, 21:47 #67385

    Chris, the only argument you're winning is in your own head. That's the only place where the narrow statistical parameters you've set up are the only thing that counts. This season will be another 'overachievement' for you of course. After tonight, AFC can concentrate on getting 4th again - so the same thing can happen one year from now. Oh, the endless joy of this endlessly repeated 'overachievement'.

  7. Mark from aylesbury

    Feb 25, 2015, 20:58 #67379

    53 minutes in , chances spurned and atrocious defending. I feel a dreadful headache a pounding in my ears going WOB WOB WOB WOB WOB

  8. Badarse

    Feb 25, 2015, 18:23 #67377

    On me head Chris, I've got a free header. So, some are repellent like jj, er repels AFC, and who is a self-confessed 'Arsenal hater', (his view not mine). Then Ron who isn't interested in the whole club, hasn't been to the Arsenal for donkey's years, and sees no sunshine and has little joy in the way we play, (again his view). Then DW Thomas who wants to commit suicide after every match. Tony Evans and SKG, who are just about hanging in there dreaming of yesterday. Then there's maguiresbridge who is dismayed that everyone concerned with AFC, is in fact concerned with AFC-oh and he has a hole in his new willies. Then there is Bard who oversaw all, (as well as Helen), as The Dark Lord, and is now nuanced, off track and up against the buffers in the sidings. Then we have Hiccup, who got by with his supply of Tony Hancock material, but the scriptwriters have left East Cheam and moved to London N5, er, AKB Central Command. Then there is Gaz, with a problem locating a pulse, or an aphrodisiac. Either way the blood supply is not reaching the parts it should. And of course we have jeff wright, who has given up the ghost to concentrate on sewing up the holes in his old string vest. All others are just grumblers. Yet you don't understand why others are hyped up? Personally the family are ready, my pre-match nerves are trying to kick in, and am getting ready to lace up my boots. I know who I would rather be, or the type I'd rather be with right now. Must not let them score, and hopefully nick one late on.

  9. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 25, 2015, 18:22 #67376

    Crimewatch, funny you should mention that, The Aughakillymaude Mummers have just reported two missing, look them up.

  10. Chris

    Feb 25, 2015, 17:50 #67375

    Crimewatch (or Cornish at a guess) - That's hilariously pathetic! I probably 'stole' it from Stroud Green Road Boy before Amos was on the scene or any of the other dozens of people who use the term regularly in everyday life... That's like saying I 'stole' Cornflakes off of Kellogs because I bought some in Tescos. Whoever you are, you're a very silly numpty, albeit an inadvertently hilariously funny one! Don't give up the day job, Inspector Clouseau!

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 25, 2015, 17:48 #67374

    Gaz, you'd be better of buying a Kindle mate.

  12. Chris

    Feb 25, 2015, 17:33 #67373

    Exeter - You're almost there mate, keep with it and I think it'll sink in. Try thinking of it another way - failure to read the nuances can result in WOBs getting the wrong end of the stick and erecting more straw men to be sent up in flames. Or rather - deliberate mis-reading of the nuances give WOBs the opportunity to get out of a losing argument by hypocritically feigning disgust at suposed 'ad hominem' attacks in the way if they were players they would probably dive theatrically to cover up the fact they'd just let the ball bobble off their shin and marginally out of their control....

  13. Crimewatch

    Feb 25, 2015, 17:29 #67371

    Chris has stolen 'straw men' from Amos (after looking it up).

  14. Chris

    Feb 25, 2015, 17:16 #67370

    Cornish - Own Goal Alert! Yes, the context being Mr Lynch's posts in which he threatened violence to some of us. But unfortunately you won't be able to show that context because if I recall correctly some of those posts were deleted because of the violent threats they contained. I stand by what I said - do you disagree with my sentiment that that there is no place for that here?

  15. jeff wright

    Feb 25, 2015, 17:16 #67369

    Jamerson stop moaning about others moaning . Only another day until the Ropey Cup is on TV that will cheer you up .In the meantime it's Arsene's past meets his present ,le temps passe vite ! Although after 19 years he is still waiting for a first win in a European cup comp.That includes the Ropey as well .Vive la France !

  16. Ron

    Feb 25, 2015, 17:07 #67368

    Gaz - yes. was there with my mate, since deceased bless him in May 89 mate and in with Pool fans at the start till we eased our way across into ours! Utter unforgettable mayhem mate. Wenger could live till hes 150 and he ll never preside over an Arsenal win like that night at Liverpool. As ive stepped aside from football bit by bit that night will never be taken away whatever Wenger or any successor does too. These who do give GG a hard time now prefer to cloak his yrs with his misdemeanour's at the end. Im sure they know Wenger is at best only as good as GG and for sure not better. The guy bled Arsenal but then the Club had soul back then.

  17. Gaz

    Feb 25, 2015, 16:43 #67366

    @Tony: Sadly all I could think of when we won the FA cup was that it meant Wenger was sure to sign on for at least another three years. Fact we celebrated in front of 250000 people when in 2003/5 we never even bothered with a parade said an awful lot too. Really tried to muster some interest and it seemed to work around the time we signed Sanchez. Got the new shirt etc and made a big effort but the first slip we made and that was it for me. Throw in us starting the season unprepared as usual and it was all downhill from there. Theconly trophy I want is to win is the Champions league. Realise a lot of our fans dismiss it (because we haven't won it obviously) but it really is the biggest and most important trophy out there to win and a Club our size should have one in the bag by now. @Ron: thing that makes me cringe about our own fans is when they effectively air brush out anything negative from our own history. I've no problem with the assumption that we're a classy outfit but some would have us think we've never made a mistake! Another thing that annoys the hell out of me is the way GG gets such a rough ride from fans now. He made a big mistake but he gave me the best night of my life (and no Westlower I'm not talking about my sex life again!!!) and was every bit as good as Wenger....

  18. Ron

    Feb 25, 2015, 15:49 #67363

    Hi Gaz. You and many of us mate feel the same. The last Cup final i watched on the tele was Hammers and Liv.Was that 06 or 07? Ive not bothered since. Last yr, i was in Dorset for that FAC Final week end and if you recall it was a roaster. The beach got the nod over seeing Arse v Hull without so much as a blink and ive always liked the FAC. Its not just Arsenal mate its the whole load of crap, top 4 chase, the filthy money to players who arent worth it and that CL that's eaten away at the domestic game.The media coverage, SKY saturation. Managers bullshine. The fans who cant see past their own Clubs any more too. Have you noticed how the majority of them carry a very sinister type of 'hate' for nearly all opponents Clubs. Its pathetic. They've been sucked into the PL vortex of hype.

  19. Tony Evans

    Feb 25, 2015, 15:48 #67362

    Gaz - I did enjoy the cup win, several notches down from what I would normally be like though, because I suspected it would virtually guarantee more years of Wenger. It must be like coming off a drug and I envy my mate his will-power in walking away completely. As you say it's football in general though isn't it, not just Arsenal, that is such a turn off now. Funnily enough I agree with you about the CL this season - I do have a feeling lady luck may smile on Arsenal this time. How far that will take us is anyone's guess but I would love to see us win the damn thing after all these years - even though I am not a big fan of the competition now.

  20. Westlower

    Feb 25, 2015, 15:44 #67361

    @Gaz Enough about your sex life, how do think the game will go tonight?

  21. Gaz

    Feb 25, 2015, 14:42 #67358

    @Tony Evans: I just feel really sad that I feel the way I do about Arsenal right now especially when for the majority of my life its played such an important and major part of it. If you'd told me a few years back I'd feel this way I'd never have believed you. I blame the current situation at the Club partly of course but football in general is just such a big turn-off for me nowadays too. Sadly I just can't see it changing even though I desperately want it to. I think I realised how bad it had become for me when I failed to even remotely enjoy last seasons FA cup final. I tried to muster some enthusiasm during the summer and at times this season but the truth is its just not there anymore. Weird thing is I've got this real funny feeling that we might just do somethimng a little bit special in the Champions league this season. Haven't the feintest where thats coming from but I can't deny its there! If that doesn't rekindle my interest then I trully am a lost soul...

  22. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 25, 2015, 14:38 #67356

    Chris 15:29pm 20th Feb 2014 Mr Lynch - I'm sure you really are a big hard nasty bastard, as you apparently wish to portray yourself. Personally, I find your apparent relish for violent confrontation as amusing and immature as most of your posts here. But more to the point - why don't you eff off yourself if you have such distaste for internet debate? - Post No. 49089

  23. Jamie

    Feb 25, 2015, 14:21 #67355

    aaaah Still referring to the Emirates as the E******s due to the rampant commercialism that is football these days. But hang on Huawei are offering us their exec seats and a free mobile in exchange for free advertising !!! GET IN WELL DO THAT THOUGH!!!!! wonder if anyone can see the irony here ?

  24. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 25, 2015, 13:27 #67351

    So Bard is 'like' a coked up numpty. And 4th is 'like' a trophy. God these nuances are useful for slipping out of accusations of both faux-achievement and attempting to discredit your opponent's argument via ad hominem attacks.

  25. Chris

    Feb 25, 2015, 13:13 #67349

    Aaah Bard, it's almost comforting to read the endless stream of straw men and false insertions that you come up with. You may very well be a coked-up numpty - as I mentioned previously, some of your lines (geddit?) of reasoning are consistent with that, but without knowledge of you and your habits I wouldn't go so far as to actually suggest you are one. And similarly, I don't think I've ever suggested someone 'f**k off don the lane' or even anything close - although I can see that if someone was really bristly and on edge my questioning as to why the perennially negative still bother might be mistaken as such.

  26. jeff wright

    Feb 25, 2015, 12:54 #67346

    So you like watching the Ropey on a Thursday night Jamerson you are obviously easily pleased or have no idea about football. I go with the no idea about football based on your past numerous posts. ... Liverpool won the European Cup in Istanbul with Rafa in charge a few years back and Chelsea won it with Di Matteo so it's not impossible to win it these days for the less shall we say technical sides despite according to your claims Jamerson that it is harder now days. The fact is that the Champions League has a number of Ropey Cup class sides in it and we are one of them..... We had the easiest group of all the Prem clubs but still failed to win it and hardly looked convincing. We would probably do better in the Ropey tbh where we would only have to play the likes of the spuds and Liverpool, sides that we of course being the real Barcelona in your view Jamerson that is,should easily sweep aside. Hang on though we have already played these sides this season and have failed to win a game against them in 3 attempts home and away ! You couldn't make it up. .......... I thought myself that Suarez made the difference between the two sides at Poundlands last night without his finishing skills Barcelona's superior football in the first half would have counted for nothing .The Catalan side defended well in the second half to keep the score down to the just one goal against and showed that they are light years ahead of us in that department . We should be okay against Monaco and scrape by them as we did the lower case outfits in our group stage . It will be deja vu every other season though once we play a top side over two legs ... adios amigo... or auf wiedersehen Arsene... with him tippy tapping away to prepare for the Emirates Cup and another qualifier tie for the Champions League ,if he gets 4th place in the Prem that is ....

  27. Bard

    Feb 25, 2015, 12:46 #67344

    Baddie good to read your thoughts. Im a fan of kind of Mandarin as spoken by the boss, our very own stanley holloway of football analysis. But i take great exception to Chris making unjustifiable assertions that Im a coked up numpty. I almost chucked it in I was so upset, although my dear wife wondered how he could be so knowing. I said that dear old Chris knows a thing or two. I will watch tonights match knowing that the baying masses of fans shouting and screaming for a win are in fact missing the big picture which in reality is so nuanced. You have to factor in all sorts of other things, the known unknowns as Donald Rumsfeld might say. You need to teach him that it weakens your argument no end if your conclusion ends with the perennial 'f*** down the lane' or variations thereof. love and peace Bard

  28. Ron

    Feb 25, 2015, 11:21 #67338

    Hi Bard - Yes, for sure. The PL for me sort of sharply went down hill in 2009 quite visibly. Im quite enjoying the Saints though (and West Ham to a lesser extent). The pleasure in the football in the PL now is in stuff like the dog fight at the bottom for me and not the tedium at the top, though City can be good to watch cant they at times. Its interesting to see such stuff as how Pulis is doing at West Brom too now hes at a decent Club. Take yr point re la liga, but how do they turn it on v the top teams abroad so often if they have such an easy ride in the league? It cd be we just think its an easy touch for them mate? PS 'Tactical battle' - meaning spread out and go for it gung ho, 'its only little Monaco' i presume you mean!!

  29. radfordkennedy

    Feb 25, 2015, 11:18 #67337

    Ron..Bard..I thought that city got caught between two schools of thought last night,the mid 4 willing to concede possession safe in the knowledge there's no green grass behind them with the back 4 sitting deep,unfortunately it appeared that the back 4 were trying to play for off-sides conceding space behind,allowing the brilliant forward passing to pick them off at random..Bard..you're absolutely correct mate it does show the gulf in class between our title chasers and theirs

  30. Badarse

    Feb 25, 2015, 11:11 #67336

    Morning chaps. Chris you tell the story clearly, but you just have to remind yourself that clearly spoken Mandarin will not be understood by some-though I think Clementine does. It often comes across as, 'one number seven, and two number twelves'. Bard is a nuanced individual since his two bouts of re-education at AKB Central Command, and will have to be recalled I'm afraid. I was very nuanced myself at a much younger age, now it's just oldanced. Incidentally, nuanced can take us down into the world of quantum physics, where standard physics rules do not apply-Steven Hawking said so! Just a scintilla of consideration, gentlemen.

  31. Bard

    Feb 25, 2015, 11:00 #67335

    Ron I agree Messi looked sensational last night. It might be the extra motivation of the CL. For the most part La Liga is turgid and boring by dint of so few competitive teams. To my mind it was also confirmation that the PL has never been so poor. The fact that we are third and Manu are still in the top half of the table tells you all you need to know about the lack of quality. Anyway looking forward to a mighty tactical battle tonight.

  32. Ron

    Feb 25, 2015, 10:41 #67334

    R/K - They did mate and ive been saying that i thought City were going to turn them over this time. I fell for the notion theyve declined! That passing to each other how they do isnt normal is it. They dont just pass it do they, they fire it at each other. Must be coached and coached and coached plus they're all excellent intelligent players. As he gets older, i get the impression that little Messi is getting even better, thats the worry for the rest?. He s a real creator now added to his dribbling skills.

  33. radfordkennedy

    Feb 25, 2015, 10:27 #67333

    Morning all...westie..I'll have a slice of 8/1 on a 1-1,that sounds generous to me..good luck with your own punting mate...Ron..I watched the first half last night and I thought barca actually embarrassed City,but they're in there with a shout I suppose...incidently Ron when I read or hear the word nuance I can't help but think of my old Dad,he used to listen to modern jazz which to me sounded like 5 blokes playing different tunes at varying speeds and when I'd ask 'what on earth is this rubbish'hed reply 'listen to the nuance my boy' I still don't quite get it,God bless him

  34. Chris

    Feb 25, 2015, 10:09 #67332

    Bard _ I'm all for exaggerating to ridiculous extremes to make a point, but you have lost me there. There are some things that can be measured, like points and goals and finances. Then there are some things that are more open for debate - such as the reasons behind a particular result, or a view of how a team might change to produce better results. I enjoyed last night's game too - there was some god stuff from both sides at time and Aguero's goal was class. I fact I enjoyed it so much I might watch some of it again at lunchtime....

  35. Ron

    Feb 25, 2015, 10:04 #67331

    Hi Westie - reckon the 1-0 s a good bet mate. Be tight over 2 legs. Enjoyed Barca last night. Dare i say it but they look like they could be even better than the vintage team we drew the short straw to play a few times?

  36. Bard

    Feb 25, 2015, 9:01 #67328

    With help from Chris the enlightened one, i enjoyed last nights game. I realised in a epiphany moment that of course City didnt lose the game that would be far to black and white a view. in fact it was 0-0 until Barca scored and if City had scored from all their chances and Barca had missed all theirs City would have won. You also have to factor in that Barca were playing in yellow and it was being played in Manchester on a tuesday night. So through my new viewing lens I made it a score draw. You see its all so nuanced. Many thanks Chris

  37. Tony Evans

    Feb 25, 2015, 8:52 #67326

    Chris - That's a good point you make about dropping something that only brings negativity to your life. My best mate has done exactly that and he was one of the most committed supporters I have ever known. I can't quite let go; although I am now a classic 'fair weather fan' of the sort I used to despise, I can't bring myself to completely turn my back on something that has played such a big part in my life for 45 years. I expect Ron and others of our vintage feel exactly the same as me in that respect.

  38. Westlower

    Feb 25, 2015, 8:46 #67325

    Tonight's game promises to be a clash of differing cultures. Cavaliers v Roundheads; Creative Flair v Pragmatic Boring Tits; Arsene Wenger XI v George Graham XI. Given Monaco's miserly defensive record of conceding fewer goals than the WOB's win arguments it's set up to be the kind of goal less, chess like, bore-fest that Ron dreams about. Every positive move will be cancelled out by a negative hairy arse. Now for the science, those of you with brains that don't function until late afternoon, look away now. The stats say hosting the 2nd leg of the round of 16 really is an advantage. In the first legs, 36% home wins, 31% draws, 33% away wins. The percentages change dramatically in the 2nd leg with the home side winning 64%, a lowly 16% for a draw & a worrying 20% for the away team. So, the bookies 1/3 (75%) on Arsenal qualifying is not a route to quick riches, nor are the skinny odds realistic given the previous stats. But there's hope for those brave enough to buck the 'last 16' trends. Knowing when to go against stats is key to betting success. To bet profitably you have got to find things that matter which other people think don't matter or conversely, things that don't matter which other people think do matter. For Arsenal to go through it's important Monaco don't score this evening. AFC to win 1-0 (Coral are 5/1) or 0-0 (Coral are 10/1) will be a good result for AFC. A 1-1 (VC are 8/1) draw would favour Monaco in the return leg as they are well practiced at parking the bus.

  39. Chris

    Feb 25, 2015, 7:56 #67321

    Cornish Gooner - Yes, all completely true and that's a fairly natural reaction to be told that black is white over and over again by people who claim I don't know what I'm talking about over topics that are, to me, meat and drink everyday fodder that I can deal with in my sleep! If you cared to provide the context of those quotes, you would see exactly what I'm talking about. As for your supposedly revelatory "true colours" - I'll stand by and raise you one. What I can't understand is if the like of Ron and Jeff have such deeply entrenched views of the current state of the club, the players, the manager etc, why on earth do they spend so much of their time discussing it? If something was nothing but a source of negativity in my life, I'd drop. Finally, IF I could e bothered, I could collect a lovely bunch of quotes fro e.g. Ron, to go alongside the ones you've so diligently culled. They'd be worse than anything I've written here or elsewhere in terms of insults - which, by the way, I never actually made if you read what I wrote- it's a kind of WOB 'dive' to cry foul along those lines everytime their beliefs are strongly challenged and they get a robust challenge along the lines they frequently dish out.

  40. jjetplane

    Feb 25, 2015, 0:01 #67320

    Proud to be a WOB. Cornish, Bard, Hiccup, Ron - big ****ing salutes and ain't dem AKBs a miserable lot. Cheer up - it's only a piddly forum. Anyway, Back to GG - what a top top chip he had. Cantona copied his style and that is fact.

  41. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 22:59 #67319

    Chris. Re. the 'sensible debate', there's always a chance that some ars*hole is gonna take offence and attempt to big up his own intellectual credentials. He might use a line like: 'But I do have a statistically-orientated PhD form one of the best universities in the world so I trust myself to look at and assess those facts as well as anyone' or maybe: 'but I can say that as a professional scientist I lean towards viewing the results of robust statistical analyses as 'fact' - beyond that we have 'opinion' that is formed from interpretation of the nuances...'. Sounds a bit familiar now. He'll probably show his true colours in the end though with something like:'But more to the point - why don't you eff off yourself if you have such distaste for internet debate?'

  42. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 22:42 #67318

    I see Barca had someone else OGL tried/could have signed? knocking them in tonight how many is that now?

  43. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 22:25 #67317

    Sob sob stop it Tony you are making me cry... changing your name doesent help things for you your attempts at sarcasm are no better than your boring sermons .Anything to support Arsene though wot!

  44. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 22:23 #67316

    Ron, Hiccup, nice one, and like they're messiah and his team they always go missing.

  45. Tony pepe

    Feb 24, 2015, 22:09 #67315

    Read it slowly Jeff. Word for word and you might get it. It takes some sinking in with you but its got to be an age thing. Bless him. Negativity is the spice of your household eh Jeff.

  46. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 21:59 #67314

    Nice one Ron def no Invincibles these AKB's huffing and puffin away. Colseybollox is more like Don Quixote in midfield than a Fabregas tilting at windmills in his deluded mind and arguing with the ref over every decision supported by Sancho leeKFC , who only gives post match interviews when the AKB's win.

  47. Hiccup

    Feb 24, 2015, 21:41 #67313

    Good analysis Ron. Still far too much deadwood in there to be taken seriously. Add to that their inability to change tactics when things are going wrong. When on the backfoot, feeble odds are thrown in like a weak dangling leg attempting a tackle. Millions in the bank and they still employ the defensive Portsmouth formation. Jamie likes to go gung ho but gets carried away and forgets who he actually is. Still need reinforcements and a game plan. Let's judge them in May.

  48. Chris

    Feb 24, 2015, 21:14 #67312

    Slippers or not, Ron, you've gone from accusing me of trying to sound clever, whilst at the same time quibbling over the correct usage of the word 'nuance' and then recounting the online dictionary definition of it virtually vebatim (sorry, couldn't help myself there - you'll have to look it up) in an attempt to big up your own intellectual credentials, to spouting more rubbish than a dysfunctional (whoops, there I go again) dustcart in a silly and only slightly amusing little diabtribe which attempt to belittle those that you can't actually live with in sensible debate. If ever someone's just dug their own hole, I think it's you....

  49. Ron

    Feb 24, 2015, 20:56 #67311

    Bard - The AKBs are playing as more of a team now and haver to be taken more seriously mate. Chris kick at you was th nw mental strength, desiiiyerr, focUUss and speeerit. Have you noticed. Theyve moved Westie into more of a forward midfield free role with licence to drift wide. Lets face it, theyve left him up front on his own when they've been under the cosh so often before but they've recognized his fatigue now. Hes a deft little schemer. I love little Westie but believe you me he ll leave his foot in occasionally. I respect Westie in their team. Hes the only one worthy of man to man marking anyway. Badarse has played up front too mainly because he threatens to take his ball home unless they let him wear the 9 shirt but he cant make his mind up if he should be a goalkeeper. He sort of has ambition as a creator but hes so much like Ray Wilkins faffing and farting aimlessly about with his crab like sideways passing, he can just be ignored more or less, but the lad can play a killer pass some times, though its often into his own net. Chris - hes been brought in as Badarses protector i think, or he just fancies the job and does it anyway ignoring his Coach. He thinks hes Peter Storey but knows deep down hes more like Gemima Puddleduck in the middle of the park. Hes bench material really. Wants to be a 'hard' player but when he kicks out hes pretty much like Robbie Savage with Denilsons slippers on. Jamie plays a good game at CB though. Hes tough and uncompromising but knows who not to take on in a war. He ll have a little nibble though at far better players than he. His trouble is his full backs. Goonercolesboy and Leefc. Both are just academy players and its hard to see them ever making it to league 1 standard. Tactically clueless,Mentally challenged, sorry, mentally weak and both have mouths as wide as Joey Bartons letter box. There is one to worry about though. Gooner Ron - hes a classy player and were lucky he cant hold down a place, but they see him as lightweight and wont play him. He comes off the bench at times and makes a real mark, pushes us back and threatens, but then Badarse feels threatened as the 'go to'man and whinges to the Coach to have him dragged off. He was quite mouthy to Gooner Ron near to the touchline last time he did it in front of the cameras. None of this blunt stuff like Ade did to Bendtner at the 5-1 WHL debacle in the CC, no way, Badarse was heard screaming at him shouting 'do you know who i am, im Friedrich Nietzsche' so fook off back to the bench, 'im yr skipper'. Nice lad GR and he meakly obliged. They are a mess though. The Coach, Arsene knows,seems to have a general plan but prefers just to send them out, telling them to work it out for themselves and it just goes to pot from there on. Theyre buzzing about though at the prsent. Badarse has been rested by Arsene knows and theyve spun us a yarn that hes ill and gone to the dentist with a router canal problem. Its rubbish though, Hes gone looking for new players. They say hes spying on Mario Gotze at Munich, but the truth is hes trannieing him self again to come back as J W Goetze, seeing as his Nietzsche impressions havent gone down well in the dressing room. The AKB are still the keystone cops but i do have a secret admiration for the way theyve stuck together of late yet theyre till good for a snigger at, not having lost that from their game as theyve added the new steely facade. Take care Bard and go easy on that coke, we might need to you to bolster our back line yet.

  50. Chris

    Feb 24, 2015, 20:55 #67310

    Hats off to you Ron, that was pretty good. If I'd been preparing something to summarise your own modus operandi, I couldn't have made a better job of it or been more accurate. So you'd better be reaching for that dictionary yourself buddy. No steam here mate, just laughing at Ron the Boor trying - and failing - to large it up in his virtual kingdom. You'll start quoting Bertrand Russell again in a minute.... Keep up the good work!

  51. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 20:50 #67309

    Jamerson your post makes no sense,but hey what's new then!

  52. Badarse

    Feb 24, 2015, 20:31 #67308

    Sammy! Chris, keep on telling it the way it is buddy. Saw the film, wow! It swamped me.

  53. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 20:01 #67307

    jw, stop it your cracking me up, or should that be coking.

  54. Hiccup

    Feb 24, 2015, 19:56 #67306

    Liverpool won the Uefa cup twice in the seventies. They probably never won it after that as they were always in the European cup either as holders or league champions up until we were banned from Europe. While Forest and Villa were winning their european cups, little Ipswich and Spurs were busy winning the UEFA Cup. Ipswich (a very good team back then) and Spurs weren't in the same class as Pool or Forest. But according to Jamie's logic were more succesful by winning the Uefa cup. I now see where all this lesser 4th place is better than winning logic fits in to the AKB mentality now.

  55. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 19:22 #67305

    The bizarre thing is that Wenger tried to claim some credit for Di Matteo beating Barcelona in the semi-final by association! Wenger's claim was that Chelsea had used their game at the Emirates ( a 0-0 bore draw) just before the away leg in Spain for a dress rehearsal for the game in the Nou Camp against Messi and co .Wenger's reasoning being that, as he put it, we play like Barcelona so they used their game with us for practice. You couldn't make it up.

  56. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 19:12 #67304

    jw, that's another thing that must have really really pissed TOF off, really stuck in his caw (as we say over here)Di Matteo certainly no elite manager walking in from nowhere with no experience and winning jug ears, with him supposedly the elite of the elite (cough) having devoted his life to it and put it on top of HIS to do list HIS ambition (and still does), it's the only thing he's interested in to the detriment of others, comps, club, fans and has still failed and is still doing so.

  57. Alsace

    Feb 24, 2015, 18:43 #67303

    I love the banner. Says it all. Wenger substitutions weakening the team?

  58. Hiccup

    Feb 24, 2015, 18:39 #67302

    So Keith "I'm so out of shape and can't keep up with play" Hackett is now being used by the AKB's as an expert on fatigue. The fact that Atkinson screwed up big time wasn't through incompetence, but fatigue? Unfortunately, Hackett can't call him a useless incompetent c#nt, so has to dream up some bollocks for his piss poor display. It all sounds so familiar though Westie, and you and Hackett are on the same page with excuse making. Whatever next? Before you know it you'll be quoting Jimmy 5 Bellies that fatigue prevented him from becoming a professional footballer.

  59. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 17:52 #67301

    I prefered it when only teams that had won their league played in the European Cup it made more sense then. Di Matteo failed in the Prem to hack it at two clubs that he managed. The sight of the agitated suspended John Terry shouting instructions from the touchline at the Chelsea players in their tie v Barca at the bridge of sighs suggests that everything may not have been what it seemed with Di Matteo 's managerial role. It's just as well that we don't have players taking over from Arsene !

  60. Bard

    Feb 24, 2015, 17:27 #67300

    Ron; Coked up numpty!!!! Doth me hear Alan Brazilian, the doyen of the banal and the mundane. I am appalled frankly. its an 'unjustified assertion'. Coked up I may be from time to time but numpty that pushing it too far. I am worried dear old Chris is morphing into an unpleasant version of Baddie. i think the dear boy needs a large justified insertion. Good post Jeff, I'd forgotten about Matteo. its all so nuanced i can barely think straight.

  61. maguresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 17:25 #67299

    jj, and one of the numbers hasn't lasted long, no doubt him and the others will go the same way or won't hang around so long when the time comes.

  62. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 17:14 #67298

    Westie, take your point but I was really only referring to the game at the centre of discussion at the moment, with your stats nothing much has changed then, apart from OGL failing in Europe.

  63. Westlower

    Feb 24, 2015, 17:02 #67297

    @Maguiresbridge, If the 94 team had the mental strength today's squad lacks & they were coached by a super tactician, why did they only finish 4th in the league & get knocked out of the FA Cup in the 4th round by Bolton? Maybe being too pragmatic makes scoring goals a bridge too far? We only scored 53 goals in 42 games in the league that season. I must admit it's heartening that you WOB's are defending your club at last, albeit in the dim and distant past.

  64. jjetplane

    Feb 24, 2015, 16:28 #67296

    'See how they run'

  65. Ron

    Feb 24, 2015, 16:25 #67295

    Hi Chris - as i recall the word is a french derivative (maybe German - i forget now?) and has a verbose use or as a noun. You use it as neither, preferring instead to use it as a device to make you sound intelligent. You're failing i hasten to add. The irony is that the word denotes flexibility and different shades of meaning to a set of facts or a definition of some thing.Its ironic in that the only meaning of anything that you understand or tolerate is your own meaning with no room for anyone else's. Moreover you then attack such as me and others as being too insistent on the 'black and white', yet that is the very method you adopt yourself albeit laced with insults, such as the ones recently aimed at the Bard to try and drive your points home.Its amusing though, as we can almost see the steam coming out of your ears at times! ref - the meaning of 'hypocrisy'. Its right up your street.

  66. jjetplane

    Feb 24, 2015, 15:59 #67294

    Can we add Rix who says Arsene FC do not do defending And Jon Sammels was being forever the nice guy. What he really said was (see Fast Show) 'he's mum's french, His Dad's French and he's a ....!' WESTIE's case is now in orbit and heading for the Darkside ...... Where's the AKB Wild Bunch (sic) gone. Well nuanced ....

  67. Chris

    Feb 24, 2015, 15:41 #67293

    Ron - Cold you help me out then please and tell me how I'm misusing the word 'nuance'? Given that you can't even distinguish huge swathes of meaning like the difference between saying that something someone has said "is the sort of simplistic ego-driven reasoning, devoid of nuance, that I would expect from a coked-up numpty trying to be the 'Big I Am'", versus actually suggesting that someone is one, I won't hold my breath for anything too enlightening. Not that I would from the Ron School of Black and White reasoning, but I live in hope....

  68. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 15:34 #67292

    WABATTD, good post, it just proves (if any proof was needed) that no one remembers 3rd or 4th best.

  69. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 15:17 #67291

    Ron, 94 was a night where real mental strength and spirit was had, and more importantly shown (something George Graham didn't need to keep telling and reminding everyone else about) would this lot do it today? would they hell. And also something not to be forgot the fans also, they had it and showed it, they believed, would the fans have the same spirit and belief today in the same situation? would they fook.

  70. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 15:14 #67290

    MG, Arsene must be seething at these ex-players such as TA, Merson,Henry,Petit ,etc,who question his current players attitudes and abilities.After all it was Wenger who bought them and he who coaches 'em ! No matter what spin Chris tries to put on it Petit quite clearly was critcal of the style of football that Wenger currently employs and of the players as well .You couldn't make it up.

  71. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2015, 14:24 #67289

    jw, that's Petit blacklisted by TOF and out of the running for a job for the boys when the next French connection is shoe horned in.

  72. jjetplane

    Feb 24, 2015, 14:05 #67288

    Wenger's failure in Europe has reached fathomless proportions. It's like giving the rich kid free shots at the coconuts. Try as he might, he does not see the coconuts. Funny, he did not see the penalty that was a free kick or Welbeck offside for the best middling striker in the PL. Just wait till Giroud is playing for the Hammers in a year or so with perhaps a new tattoo. Regards tippy tappy fuseball has concieved and executed by the Arsene Sagan i see Barca have moved on to a style of getting the ball quickly and directly up the field to a trident on little known players. Meanwhile Jack chews gum on the bench as he awaits his call up to a midfield of ten players on the pitch. Palace could have won that 4-2 and there are a few teams who would have. The capitulation is ****ded after a decade of football drift. Beware of teams with solid defences .....

  73. Westlower

    Feb 24, 2015, 13:56 #67287

    The latest edition of the Gooner arrived in the post today. Headed straight to my hero Jon Sammels interview. Did i ever doubt his answer to the question "what's your take on AW as a manager." Jon replied, "I think he's the best manager that Arsenal have ever had." I rest my case!

  74. Ron

    Feb 24, 2015, 13:48 #67286

    Bard - you are deemed a 'coked up 'numpty' now though don't forget mate. They usually invoke the use of nuance when they're lecturing on 'net spend'. They do seem to love to engage with a net spend/nuance fest to hide their vacuous arguments behind. You never know, one day they might even use the word correctly.

  75. Badarse

    Feb 24, 2015, 13:39 #67285

    Off to see, 'Theory of Everything', starring Ron, er I mean Eddie Redmayne. Just a twopennyworth thrown in as this has been recycled so often. Players do decide, in a great many instances, what should happen on the pitch. It always has been so, and will continue to be the case. Managers/coaches set out their stall, give a 'gee', point out one or two aspects and send the troops off to battle. Beyond a HT pep talk, and sending on substitutes with a role to fill, they are largely redundant during the game. The majority give greater background info, and can be more animated 'pitch side', some practise overkill with dossiers, and some are minimalists. All applications can have their benefits and downsides, it is dependent on personalities. As a rough guide, Ron was a coach, and I played. What sort of chemistry would have been created with our personalities in tow? Neither necessarily right or wrong, but probably our immensely different personas could cause problems. But who knows? The point is too much is made of this. If it had come to light that AW had a deeply involved and convoluted tactics procedure, it would have been used as a stick to beat him with by those who like to thrash. Stop it Helen!

  76. Ron

    Feb 24, 2015, 13:27 #67284

    Westie lad. - hi mate. Not rubbishing the 05 match but Westie, how it wasnt minimum 4-0 remains a mystery to this day, possibly 5-0. Someone looked out for us that day. Perversely, the enjoyment of the day arose from the fact that we d robbed em! In truth it want that enjoyable a Cup win. Yr right on all of the points re those Parma players but what came after didnt make them a weak team when they were together. They were hot favourites to beat us because they were a good side. Im glad youve rested mate. 2 consecutive days on the keys is bound to make for a below par performance mate!!

  77. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 12:43 #67283

    Morning Bard, based on the European Cup being needed on a managers rap sheet to be classed among the elite of managers I guess that GG fails the test to be included with the likes of Clough ,Paisley and Ferguson. There is a sting in the tail here though regarding this because Di Matteo won the European Cup with Chelsea and he is no elite manager! With luck playing a part in winning cup comps I prefer to judge managers on winning league titles and both Wenger and GG did that . I put GG ahead of Wenger because he won a European trophy as well , albeit not the big one. . As Wenger himself stated that it was his ambition to be the first Arsenal manager to win the European Cup his lack of success in doing this must be classified as a big failure on his part . He really should be looking at trying to win the Prem again and not prioritizing the European Cup over this by building his squad to try and give himself an edge in Europe . Tactically he is too clueless anyway and would not win the Euro Cup even if he managed Real Madrid. After all he never won it with the Invincible side and they were rated the best team in English football history !

  78. Charlie George Orwell

    Feb 24, 2015, 12:40 #67282

    Does anyone remember the lead up to the following ECWC Final in ’95? Highbury Jumbotrons turned up to the max declaring ‘No Team Has Retained The UEFA Cup Winners Cup....Until Now!’ Cue the film character just about to die who says: ‘Well, things can’t get any worse, can they?’

  79. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 12:25 #67281

    As us gamblers are wont to say you are edging your bets a bit there Chris! I have no doubt that Manu liked Wenger and that Arsene treated him like a son. Something that others such as Cesc have also said,but look where that has got Arsene at times. Personally I think that Wenger gets too close to players and then finds it hard to drop them unlike other managers ,such as Gruppenführer Ferguson , ruthlessly did when he saw they were not pulling their weight. Anyway leaving that aside the facts are that Manu made statements that clearly said that players ,such as big Tony, decided on how they would play when faced by tough opponents who were not going to roll over and have their tummies tickled . Now to me the manager should be doing this job and not his players.If the players are having to do it then the manager is clearly not doing his job properly.We know that Wenger ,unlike more successful managers,never takes account of our opponents strengths and weaknesses ,he plays the same way against everyone! He doesn't coach the team to defend properly on corners and set pieces. Wenger being the tactical genius that he is instead employs the so called zonal marking system and this in reality is no marking at all. Ask the spuds about it. Wenger may scrape 3rd or 4th spot in the Prem come May by cobbling enough points together against medioce oppo to do so albeit there are 2 other teams competing for those places with us .I don't see Tottenham or Southampton as being top 4 myself and make it between us United and Liverpool for 3rd and 4th place. Again I reiterate that with our chav like wage bill and Wenger's experience we should be closer to Chelsea rather than to Southampton and the spuds. I don't agree though that another manager would turn our little frogs into princes. Wenger's squad is not a well balanced one and built for tippy tappy football .A new manager would have to cull the herd and off-load some of the donkeys .As it stands the recent games against Leicester at home and Palace away show that this current side is always an accident waiting to happen due to the poor defending on leads that we see game after game. The differentials between the teams fighting for 3rd and 4th are very narrow ,as United found out to their cost on Saturday at Swansea . they were on a long unbeaten run with LVG ludicrously claiming that this meant they were the best side in the Prem! There were however a few draws in that run and just one defeat proves very costly in these sort of dog fights if the other teams pick up points .So fingers crossed then that Everton don't chuck a spanner in the works at the weekend - they have to play on Thursday at home V The Young Boys in the Thursday Ropey Cup - but with the tie already done and dusted Martinez will be able to field a reserve side . Wenger will of course go for broke away to Monaco in his futile crusade to win his holy grail that looks ever more like an elusive dream as each weary season ( yawn) passes by...

  80. Bard

    Feb 24, 2015, 12:15 #67280

    Jeff. point taken but are you arguing that GG belongs to the elite of managers? Im a GG fan but I haven't had him the elite group. Chris has informed me a more nuanced approach to evaluating success is needed. I do love a nuance and await his baddielike sermon on 'nuanced evaluation of fooballing success', part 1.

  81. jjetplane

    Feb 24, 2015, 12:02 #67279

    BADDIE finally has a crew! lol! Somebody hold him up! lol!

  82. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 24, 2015, 11:36 #67278

    For the revisionists out there: The 1994 ECWC Final definately had us as the underdogs. Parma were the holders. Parma had Brolin, Asprilla, Sensini, Zola; we had Selly and Morrow but also our wonderful back four. It wasn't pretty but it was a classic AFC backs to the wall win. As to those dissing the competition as a whole, the semis were Arsenal v PSG and Parma v Benfica. Not exactly the Europa League. For my money George Graham would be a perfect manager for the style of football being played right now throughout the league.

  83. Westlower

    Feb 24, 2015, 10:22 #67277

    @Ron, I'm fighting back against my fatigue & I've mustered enough strength to bash away at the keyboards once more before I lie down. You rubbish Arsenal's performance in the 2004/05 Cup Final victory over Man U but have you forgotten the Man U team contained Van Nistlerooy, Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes & Keane. Arsenal had Senderos & Toure as our centre backs and we held out for 2 hours with conceding. What's so different from the Parma game? That Man U team would have blown Parma away.

  84. Ron

    Feb 24, 2015, 9:15 #67275

    Westie - PS Ian Wright was like every other top goalscorer whos ever lived. Me, me, me rules when you play in his position. See Shearer, RVN, Greaves, Lineker, Muller, Law. Rush. Do you need more names? I reckon youre tired mate. Go and sit down for a while.

  85. Westlower

    Feb 24, 2015, 9:13 #67274

    @Ron, Parma's star men Brolin & Asprilla had mixed fortunes when they tried their luck in English football. Poor piggy Tomas Brolin became a bit of a joke figure under Howard Wilkinson at Leeds. He managed to score 4 goals in 20 appearances but the pair fell out big time & Brolin was loaned to Zurich & Parma, followed by a short spell at Palace under Steve Coppell but he was never destined to score again. Sadly, in 2007 he was voted the 2nd worst player ever to have played in the PL. To be fair to Brolin he broke his foot late 94 and never recovered his previous good form. Asprilla will always be remembered as the man who wrecked Newcastle bid for the title under Keegan. Probably unfair on the player but he unbalanced the team & the rest is history. He rejoined Parma from Newcastle but only scored 1 goal from 22 appearances before returning to South American football.

  86. Ron

    Feb 24, 2015, 8:56 #67273

    Westie - Ooh mate, you get worse. Do you really see that FAC result as in anyway comparable to 1994? Truthfully now, do you? Those of us there in 05 just thought there was a higher entity controlling us all after all as we picked up that Cup. Had it have been a fight it would have been stopped after 20 mins. 1994 was a Euro Final, away from home v a top side (who you thought were a weak team as you said yesterday quite clearly). Now its 'no argument' from you? The Man U team who we fluked that Cup win against was a team that had gone into transitionary slumber for 18 months too. I cant think of anybody who would even imagine Wenger could set a team up to do the job GG did that night in 94. The guy wouldn't know how to start in my view. His own mundane European record since 96 bears it out too. Wenger doesn't get out of the starting blocks compared to GG tactically and you know it too. He ll never win a european tournament either at Arsenal or where ever next he lands either.

  87. Westlower

    Feb 24, 2015, 8:38 #67272

    @CGO No arguments from me. It was a classic 'park the bus' performance to get the win, something we later repeated in the FA Cup against Man U under Wenger. I still preferred GG's style of play up until 92, after which he prioritised defending over attacking. Ultimately Ian Wright became our main source of goals elbowing Smudge & Campbell out of the spotlight. We didn't get the balance of the team right again until Anelka replaced Wright many years later. Exciting as Wrighty was to watch as an individual, he was never a team player. It was usually a case of Me, Myself & I with Wrighty.

  88. Ron

    Feb 24, 2015, 8:38 #67271

    CGO - Indeed. The 1994 win v Parma isnt some thing the Wenger apologists like to to see mentioned on here mate. Many of them arent keen even to see GG s name mentioned for obvious reasons. Westie hit a new revsionary low yesterday though when he claimed Parma amongst others were a weak team. Credit to him though, he did go quiet when we reminded him who played in that Parma team. He was probably tired though bless him.

  89. Charlie George Orwell

    Feb 24, 2015, 8:21 #67270

    The posts about GG stirred some great memories for me. A great player and a top, top manager for THE Arsenal. A man who if you lopped off one of his limbs would have 'Arsenal' running all the way through it like a stick of rock. Forgive my personal bias, but a tactical genius compared to AW. Westie - have always thought that we were actually the underdogs against Parma, but superior tactics and a resoulute 'They Shall Not Pass' mentality instilled into the team by Stroller won the day.

  90. Chris

    Feb 24, 2015, 7:53 #67269

    Jeff - you're getting a bit desperado there mate. You offer your opinion of, or rather heavily loaded interpretation on, what the impications of what Manu said might be - for someone of your mindset who is looking for supporting evidence - but if you re-read the quotes, you and anyone else can see they are very far from saying what you claimed. Why don't you print the rest of what Manu said, anyway? The bits where he says what a great manager Wenger is, how he is like a father to him (ok, I find that a bit creepy but anyway...) and how proud he is to have that relationship? The point is that in context, Manu is very far from doing the hatchet job that you are trying to make out. Not very clever, Jeff. Anyone who knows anything about Wenger knows that he trains his players to think for themselves - he accepts he can't control everything on the pitch quickly enough to be efficient so he relies on the players being able to work it out for themselves. In that respect, the perfect manager - in any walk of life - would almost make himself redundant. That why he is so successful when he has high quality players - we all know we would have won the league by now if we'd kept Fab, RVP, Nasri (I'm doing a Jeff now with the 'we all know'!) and will be again as the quality of the squad improves. It's not for nothing that Real Madrid courted him for so long and Brazil wanted him to coach them for the last World Cup (okay, maybe the last bit doesn't say much).

  91. Westlower

    Feb 24, 2015, 7:36 #67268

    My suspicions that fatigue plays a significant part in the results of football matches has been confirmed by ex top ref Keith Hackett. Keith has called for refs to be given an extra day off after officiating at Champions League games. The extra travelling & big match pressure compounding the weariness suffered by our top officials. No human being can be expected to perform at optimum level 3 times a week. Perhaps Bard could relate his experiences with the domineering Helen over a stressful week of high intensity? Mr Hackett feels Martin Atkinson's poor performance at the Bridge was down to fatigue. Maybe it's time to substitute the ref if he's having a 'mare.' Give the coaches one call per game when he can request the ref being subbed by the 4th official. Maybe change refs at half time to keep fresh legs on the pitch? I'm sure Maureen would have played his card at any of 30, 34, 43 or 69 minutes. I reckon Helen would always choose 69? To keep the refs pecker up maybe a month relaxing in the sun, Dubai or Vegas, would recharge their depleted batteries. The club that had the official replaced would obviously pay all expenses. Now for the bad news, QPR are off for 10 days in Dubai as they don't have a game this weekend.Yes, you've guessed it, their first game back with a refreshed squad will be at home to a fatigued Arsenal, who play Monaco on Wednesday & Everton on Sunday afternoon. Even Helen needs a break from Bard sometimes!

  92. Cockney Gooner in New York

    Feb 24, 2015, 1:28 #67267

    Bard! Your post at 10:16am Monday morning comparing your post 50 Shades Of Grey experience with AFC performances was genius humour! Had me laughing my ars off on packed NYC subway home. Thanks mate!

  93. Danny

    Feb 24, 2015, 0:43 #67266

    This game showed what a useless coach Wenger is tactics wise and how we lacked a leader in Midfield He nearly through the game away. 2-0 up, Palace brings on fantastic player Yannick Bolasie who was ripping Monreal at every turn. Wenger’s response was to bring on a useless Gibbs and Gabriel Paulista and totally confused the defence. This made Arsenal play deep He should have brought on Wally Walnut and taken off Welbeck who was knackered. This way we would have pushed caused Palace to cautious and afraid Arsenal may hit on the break We got lucky and I cannot see Arsenal getting away from Top teams We will never win the EPL under him.Wenger Out!

  94. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2015, 0:27 #67265

    Chris, instead of making rhetoric statements can you point out what these ' at best misleading quotes ' are >? I gave my views on what Petit said regarding the current players and his comments that the players spoke to one another before away games regarding how they would adopt their approach to the fight . Echo's there of Mertesacker's ones and Wenger's himself after the unexpected win at Poundlands and also Wenger's following the victory over United in 2005 in the FAC final when similar non-Wenger tactics were employed by our players to thwart , Ronaldo, Rooney ,Horsehead and co . The facts are that Wenger is not known as Inspector Clueless for no good reason. Now days it's a a case of tick follows tock follows tick follows tock with as Manu says the Barca lite approach being used by old Arsene - yawn.....

  95. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 23:43 #67264

    Jeff - You've come up with a statement like "in which he reiterates what many believe that it was the players that Wenger had and not himself that won those titles" and then preceedd to give several quotes, none of which are relevant to backing up your statement. That's at best inadvertently misleading. And you intended to introduce a dose of reality - you really could make it up, could you?

  96. jeff wright

    Feb 23, 2015, 23:42 #67263

    Whoops!&*!! Manu was not of course in the 2004 side - copy and paste always risky so don't shoot me I'm only the messenger! Other than that the comments from Petit are as anyone of sound mind will agree with.

  97. jeff wright

    Feb 23, 2015, 23:20 #67262

    Just to reintroduce a touch of reality into proceedings I offer Manu's thoughts on Flim Flam and co... in which he reiterates what many believe that it was the players that Wenger had and not himself that won those titles .In fact since they have been gone and Arsene had carte blanche to do what he pleased there has been no titles. "Arsenal Invincible Emmanuel Petit reckons the current Gunners team lack the steel of his generation." “You have to remember the defence that we had,” said Petit. “You could rely on Seaman, Adams, Keown, etc. “We knew how to travel. When we had to play, we knew how to do that too. I remember one away game at Wimbledon where Tony Adams came to say to me: ‘Today, Manu, forget the football. It’s war’. We knew how to adapt because we only wanted one thing: to win. ”Petit, now 44, reckons the current Arsenal team lacks the same hard edge. “Let’s say that the Barcelona of keeping the ball has overtaken that style,” he said. “But today, you have to be more direct and pragmatic. You see that with Germany or Real Madrid. Arsenal have very pretty players but there are not ‘killers’ in this team. At that time, we were tough, we did not play to look good.” ............ Seems about right to me fast-track bullies and over-rated play-boys playing flash football at home against lower oppo while bottling it away at tougher with some rolling around in pretended agony at places like the lane of pain ( 50 goal against the also rans Oliver being an example) Kos limping of after the first 3 goals from opponents at venues like the San Siro and the bridge have flown in and winning leads being squandered like a drunken Scotsman on a spending spree using someone elses credit card here there and everywhere. Albeit that according to Wally he and the rest of the gang are better than the Invincible side ,you couldn't make it up.

  98. Badarse

    Feb 23, 2015, 23:02 #67261

    Nice to have you back goonercolesyboy. Chris some impassioned posts-good to have you around too. What is going on? Th14afc, Jamerson, WAB, westlower! AKB reunion? Takeover? No competition when the numbers are evened up. Good old Arsenal.

  99. Th14afc

    Feb 23, 2015, 22:30 #67260

    Oh formula...don't even get me started

  100. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 22:25 #67259

    Formula wrote: "in a managers tournament where each manager was given 11 roughly similar players, Wenger would finish last" I find it hard to believe that anyone, even a dyed in the wool WOB, would be so daft as to really believe that....

  101. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 23, 2015, 22:11 #67258

    jj, nice one yourself, i'm still laughing.

  102. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 20:57 #67257

    Tchydi - Have yo actually bothered to read anything I wrote before you came up with your latest load of vacuous twaddle? I've never said that money is the only factor - I've said it's one of many. Read back and check. Any I've never said Mourinho's success is 'just' down to money either - you are erecting straw men to such an extent that I knew you had to be a negative mindless WOB. I would add, though, that Mou didn't get close to the CL in Madrid, did he? But Ancelotti has - is he then a better manager? Then I rad "we'll soon be knocked out of UCL at the quarter finals stage at best" and gave a chuckle cos I knew you were. We're about the 3rd best team in England and about the 8th in Europe, which is also where we rank financially, so I'd say our current performance was fine - not stellar, but acceptable. You say we're not aiming higher but that's a load of bollocks isn't it? We may not be achieving higher but that's a different story. Did we fall away in the second half of last season because Wenger told the lads to take the foot off the gas, or because we had a series of injuries to key men and lost form?

  103. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2015, 20:37 #67256

    Nice one Formula and then we get the AKb intellect coming on - ****ing genius! .....

  104. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 23, 2015, 20:25 #67255

    Formula, what a lot of rubbish, another to join the fools like JJ, maguiresbridge Ron jeff wright Exeter who cast their drivel continuously on this anti Arsenal site.

  105. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 20:15 #67254

    Formula - good point. He does have any eye for players in certain positions. Those that that hes intersted in and we know that he likes fleet footed, light framed nippy players. His blind spots are his idealized 'philosophy' of football and disinterest in defending, the need for physical strength stops him maximizing their effectiveness. His weakness tactically stops him from combining his type of player with the bread and better types all teams (and his preferred types) need and his ideals wont at all permit him to use the dark arts of the game either. Theres not a truly successful team anywhere that doesn't use the dark arts. Wenger equates dark arts with dirty injurious play. Add this self imposed straitjacket to your own very precise summary of what is really a mathematical formula and you've got an explanation for the Clubs inertia on the pitch. Youve made an excellent point. With that formula of just spending enough to give him a slightly greater depth of squad usage than the teams you mention and its arguably near impossible in quite a poor quality PL to do anything other than steer a Club with AFCs resources into that top 4.

  106. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2015, 19:04 #67253

    Excellent post TChYDI Bang on the nail there but it appears for the last decade they have been molding this model of stability and mediocrity and really only someone like Wenger with his dour economic background could see such a project through. When he does try his hand at football nowadays (see French TV) he soon gets found out. he would perhaps be better doing the college and corporation circuit talking hogwash and how to fleece a passive audience. Gentle rebukes .....

  107. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 23, 2015, 18:29 #67252

    Baddie, not a problem gentle rebukes never go amiss.

  108. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2015, 18:26 #67251

    Beautiful MG and perfectly encapsulated. Wenger does not belong in football. Wenger is degrading the game. ps I am really liking Nasri at the moment - blue Moon ha ha. Wait til Rodgers passes him by in the next few weeks. makes you wonder who are the bitter folk on here - like the little plastic spud haters - laughable.

  109. Tchydi

    Feb 23, 2015, 18:25 #67250

    @Chris, that Mou has been hugely successful with trophies to show, is not simply down to money, as you're trying to make everyone believe. Porto didn't spend much. Inter was already spending before he arrived, yet they never won a treble. Madrid has been spending lots of money trying to wrestle power from Pep's Barca, but they only succeeded when Mou arrived. My point is that spending money doesn't guarantee success(ManU is the latest example), neither can you use that as an excuse for failure. We've spent big over the last couple of seasons,yet we've not improved. We're still scrambling for 4th, we'll soon be knocked out of UCL at the quarter finals stage at best, and don't look like we can beat ManU in the FA cup either. Let's even forget about Mourinho and focus on ourselves. Within the resources we have, we all know we should be challenging for the top honours,but we just seem to set a lower expectation(4th) for ourselves season after season. If we've consistently achieved 4th for 17yrs, then common sense tells me that we should set the bar higher and consider 4th position a failure going forward. We're not stretching ourselves, setting the same target we know we'll always achieve, and not aiming higher.

  110. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 18:22 #67249

    Tchydi - We ARE above the rest, both in the PL and CL... I agree with what your saying about the quality of the squad though - all the more credit to Wenger for putting such a good squad together with (until recently) very limited funds. Right? As for another manager getting more out of the squad - no doubt there are a small handful, at most, that could. I'm sure Pep would but other than that, all potentials are debatable in my opinion

  111. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:58 #67248

    jj, spot on I reckon that really pisses TOF off, not accepted or seen as the best by other managers, or having the respect of or being held in as much esteem as other managers like fergie and even Maureen etc. All the demolishing of the George Grahame era, the traditions (and we all know what they were)I bet it annoys the arse off him(and others) to hear George Graham is still been mentioned and still held in such esteem even now after all these years especially after all the hard work he's put in trying to rid the club of those traditions and maybe even memories, and mould the club into his own laughable image and instil his own failed philosophies all for £8,000,000 a year, (you would just love to see and hear his reaction if asked would you consider getting George Graham back to coach the defence?) it would be worth the price of the inflated ticket price that Sky Tv sets alone. So George took a bung what was it? 400g's i don't even remember, is it any different to what wenger is doing now? only with him it's £4,000,000 a season and he's doing it legally.

  112. jeff wright

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:57 #67247

    Yes Ron those two games that you mention did expose our limitations at Euro level .The Benfica one was not TA's finest hour . GG did address the issue though regarding our sloppy defending,unlike with Wenger who allows it to go on and on ... and later on under Graham we put in some good defensive shows against top outfits like Parma and AC Milan at Highbury 0-0 in the first leg of the Super Cup - but only to come undone 2-0 at the San Siro in the second leg - in a Cup Final now largely forgotten. Then again no one other than deluded AKB's remember losing cup finals fondly !

  113. Tchydi

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:44 #67246

    @Chris Mourinho's point is simple. With our present squad, we should be challenging at the top with Chelsea and ManC. Player-for-player, we're ahead of the rest except Chelsea and ManC. I have absolute confidence that a team with Sanchez,Ozil,Walcot,Carzola,Kolcieny,Wishere,Ramsey,Giroud can win the EPL. They just need that little bit of extra 'hardwork', 'fight', 'desire' and in-game management. The talent is there in abundance, but I don't see AW being able to give the team just that little extra push. I sit and imagine what this same squad can achieve under more pressured and ambitious coach(and management) .

  114. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:34 #67245

    @Scala, Totally agree that PSG & Parma were good sides at that time. Parma were a successful cup side then but have never won Serie A, though they were runners up in 96/97. I mentioned Parma's current financial woes to show nothing can be taken for granted with football clubs and the way they are managed. PSG were Ligue 1 Champions that season for only the 2nd time in their history. Lee Dixon did well to limit Ginola's impact. The tie at Highbury will always be infamous for Bin Laden being in attendance.

  115. Badarse

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:25 #67244

    Evening 24601. Yes Marinello had the tie at his feet, that old fickle finger of fate pointed at him that night, it truly did. Cruyff's balance was astounding. I do look for that in young players, my young Charlie has it, he somehow glides over the pitch. I did believe we had our own budding Cruyff in our Charlie George. He too seemed effortless in the way he moved, didn't he? So ballsy, impressed with himself, brash, full of confidence, a true great in the making-we had so many special players in that short period of time, I guess that's partly why they remain as our true heroes. We too were in our prime, ready to take on the world and reshape it our way. Cruyff had already arrived though. It was clear we were watching a very special talent destined to become a ledgend.

  116. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:21 #67243

    Hi Jeff - Mr Isaias wasnt it mate for the Benfica lads. Recall that night. I dont think Arsenal have had their backsides kicked by a team before or since like that. Do you? He really did make us look like the keystone Cops didnt he!! Wengers worst tanning was Fiorentina i reckon at Wembley when the 'Battigol' tore us a new backside. He was some player wasnt he. The complete Centre Forward.

  117. jeff wright

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:05 #67242

    Baddie, I was referring to GG's managerial role regarding the European Cup .It's a tough call when players are remembered for some costly mistake or miss,a'la Henry in Paris or Stevie G's slip-up last season that cost Liverpool the title. That's football though. My memory of GG's European Cup management is the tie v Benfica,who back then a top Euro side, we got a good result away 1-1 Kevin Campbell's finest moment,but fell apart at Highbury in the second leg losing 3-1 with TA literally being dumped on his arse. We are still however awaiting our first European Cup win even after 18 years of Wenger magicand it still seems like an elusive dream . Tbh I can't see Wenger ever winning it .

  118. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:04 #67241

    @Badarse 3 memories from that night against Ajax. 1. Peter Marinello missing an early opportunity when one on one with the GK. 2. Being in awe at watching Johan Cruyff play. 3. As you previously described, GG's own goal. The dream was over.

  119. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:03 #67240

    Bard - Yes, you have missed something - the point. Which is that whilst the 'point' of entering a competition is to try to win it, there are multiple causes as to why one team ends up doing so and all of the others don't. To simply state that Mourinho is a miles better than Wenger because he's won more trophies ignores that obvious fact in favour of focussing on just one factor - the coach. And so that's not really a justifed assertion, unless its backed up by at least a cursory consideration of all the other factors that wold contribute to the trophy haul. Yes Chelsea's net spend on tranfers is less than Arsenal's but isn't that because they've stockpiled players in the Pre-FFP years (when they spent many times what we did every year) and are now releasing those funds? Their over all spend was considerably higher than ours, as is their wage bill - still - despite your claims to the contrary earlier this season (note to Bard: don't take the Torygraph as gospel). Given all that, I'm really not surprised that you suggest that Athletico 'make a better job of competing' than we do, when they have only managed to finish above either of the big boys once in the last dozen or so years and during that period they've only finished as high as third one other time, despite the relatively weak competition below the top two in Spain. All this talk of trophy counts and 'Great Managers' having had to have won the CL is the sort of simplistic ego-driven reasoning, devoid of nuance, that I would expect from a coked-up numpty trying to be the 'Big I Am', so yes, by that reasoning an 'unjustified insertion' probably does mean we disagree...

  120. Scala

    Feb 23, 2015, 17:00 #67239

    Westlower- If you don't think that PSG and Parma were among the best teams in Europe in 1994 then you don't know your football. Parma's financial position 21 years later has nothing to do with anything.

  121. Badarse

    Feb 23, 2015, 16:48 #67238

    Just a point jeff. You are perhaps aware the Stroller was a big hero to me, a magnificent footballer, who morphed into quite a remarkable manager. However in the manner with which some judge and discredit on this site I could offer this. I was behind the North Bank goal as he headed us out of the European Cup. An almighty mix up, error of judgement, or whatever, he looped a headed back pass to Willow-who was off his line-and we all stood stupefied as the ball dropped in slow motion into the goal. A second leg game, and it did for us. Such is any one person's fate. Winner? Loser? Like the shot deflecting in or out, it can often be a close call.

  122. jeff wright

    Feb 23, 2015, 16:34 #67237

    Bard, we were ,along with some other English clubs, banned from Europe for awhile during GG's reign, so he only had the one shot at the European Cup ,unlike Wenger who has had about 18 attempts at winning it. GG at least won the Cup Winners Cup whereas Wenger lost his Uefa Cup final v Galatasaray and the Champs League one as well.For a manager who made Europe his Holy Grail the 18 years of failure under his tenure counts against his claims to greatness.At the end of it all he has in reality done less well in Europe than both Mee and GG did and they never had 18 years to win a European Trophy in.

  123. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 16:29 #67236

    Its a pity that GG did fall into disrepute, not doubt about that. He was high profile and took the fall for droves of them didnt he. Im sure the latter day bung equivalents for coaches to enamour themselves with do dwarf what GG did and took too. I reckon he lost his focus due to his dalliances though Westie and those weird signings were maybe part of a wider scam, trade off purchases type of thing. Players maybe picked up on his lack of focus and the rot set in so to speak. I dont think he 'lost the dressing room'. Two Cups in 93 and a Euro Cup in 94 says different. A lost dressing room wouldnt have seen Parma off that night. Wenger hasnt won the Carling Cup in all of his efforts never mind a domestic Cup double with any of his weakest teams and never will in my view. Both Cups had every Club playing hard from them back then too.Full credit for Wengers yrs 97 -04. No so called WOB decries those years. I just dont buy the cash restraint and the CL campaign demands as the sole reason for AFCs stagnancy, especially in what has to be agreed and accepted is a PL of declining standards these last 6 yrs. Its the decline in the PL standard and the Boardroom stand off thats kept him in a job.Wenger has a vested interest in the fissures in that Board room and hes played it to his advantage very well as key Employees can do at his level in any organisation. Sacking Wenger would open the flood gates to all the pent up angst amongst those directors flooding out quite possibly and the end result would be Usminov getting a foothold on the controls. Like or loathe him or what he is or isnt, its a joke of an organisation that doesn't have such a major shareholder in its Boardroom. They're like big silly greedy kids hogging all of the crisps and toffee apples keeping him out and the team suffers for it.He could have much to offer but personal dislike clouds their vision. JJ makes a good point. GG may have created a dull team in his final throes, but the Club didnt lose its passion and energy. Wenger hes presided over nigh on ten years of sterile football flavoured with rose petal scent, but they sold it well to those who dont look at it for what is in my view. Are you truthfully impressed with what Arsenal have produced particularly in the last 5 years? I dont believe you are mate. Its humdrum error ridden aimless football at its worst and flowery football at its best. Whats to be impressed with about it? Theres no shame in respecting Wengers job down the better years he had and the immediate yrs post ground move too while wanting the Club to be sure to shuttle him on now. The support for him now is just dewy eyed football romanticism as i see it. The guy has ruined his own legacy and its shame on him for doing so.

  124. Badarse

    Feb 23, 2015, 16:22 #67235

    Sorry I ruffled those old chicken feathers maguiresbridge, but these posts are very old hat. Generally it's a case of our manager being rubbish, our players too, with lots of personal digs at them. If I was discussing with a Sour-like jj-I would just walk away as soon as the insults began. You don't like the playing staff, the coaching staff, the stadium, our style of football, the cost, how much they all earn, the weather, me, Ok I get that, but if it becomes a perpetual whine a gentle rebuke is in order, surely. You know you are important to me, where else can we hold our Spring BBQ, but in your garden? A pint of virtual Stella sliding down the bar top to you, cheers! Oh and plant plenty of pansies for us all.

  125. Bard

    Feb 23, 2015, 16:10 #67234

    David; really good post. One of the problems is that some on here hide behind phrases like the 'Arsenal way' as if we are somehow above all this title challenging mayhem. Its a kind of arrogance that makes the failures more palatable. I don't like the Chavs one bit but they are ruthless in their pursuit of success as were Man U. Its a culture that runs through the club. Arsenal are nowhere near achieving that. Its hard to evaluate GGs reign as there are some many unknowns to factor in. My opinion is he was good but not top drawer. The great managers have the CL on their cv and like Wenger, he doesn't.

  126. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2015, 16:00 #67233

    WESTIE think you are overdoing GG's disgrace which would hardly bat an eyelid today. Compared with Arsene Wenger's crimes against competitive football because it is simply beneath him (read as beyond him) I consider George a footballing angel. arsenal have lost both character and identity under AW's overstay. Instead of a red haired Freddie we now have the spin and insincerity of the likes of Walcott, who makes Giroud the complete warrior. Giroud could perhaps be a Harry Kane if he can just stay out of the flashy boy clique that has been dominating Arsenal for a decade. It's turning the likes of Wilshere and Ramsay into clowns.

  127. Tony Evans

    Feb 23, 2015, 15:42 #67232

    Ron - Spot on in your analysis of our defensive weaknesses. As you say it's not just the full backs it's the keeper right through to defensive midfield. We are marginally better than we have been, but that is not saying much is it. Ospina is a safer bet than Szczeny, but hardly top drawer and he would be no more than a number 2 under a coach like Mourinho, if that. Chambers is not a full back and the jury is still out on Debuchy due to his unfortunate run of injuries. Bellerin has potential and as for the Gibbs / Monreal combo, one is too injury prone and the other, again, nowhere near top drawer. That brings me on to the central defenders and the best you can say there is that at least we have four at long last! The make do and mend attitude extends to defensive midfield - Coquelin is at least making a better fist of it than Flamini and Arteta but is he really the answer. All in all Wenger seems to see defence as something that he shouldn't be wasting much money on and I always have found that baffling when you consider that all the success he has enjoyed at Arsenal (bar last seasons cup win) has been built on a rock solid defensive set up. Why has he deserted a winning formula?

  128. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 15:35 #67231

    @JJ No disagreement from me regarding GG as a quality footballer. One of the key components of one of our best ever teams. The first half of his managerial career was also fantastic, which makes his fall from grace so disappointing. Some of the best football I've ever seen involved GG either as a player or manager but he was also responsible for some of the worst football I've ever witnessed.

  129. David

    Feb 23, 2015, 15:35 #67230

    Ron - agreed. Wenger satisfies all their criteria.

  130. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2015, 15:18 #67229

    GG in a pure footballing sense is miles ahead of Wenger with his hyped up philosophy drivel which amounts to what exactly? GG was not just a great manager he was also a joy to watch on the pitch. Strong with lots of class thrown in. Wenger is more a bolshie student of football. Frustrated by the fact that he is not really accepted and who in the game presently sings his praises for keeping the books ticking over for nineteen bloody years! No one. What is there really to praise now he has no Pires or Adams to do his thinking for him. He plays with the numbers because that is all he has got. Certainly in the past decade he has not put a squad together of any profound fluency and for all the time he has had in the game posturing as a leader, he has managed only to create a league of followers who are at pains to express their true function. This applies just as much to the fans as it does to an unchallenged manager and 'team.'

  131. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 23, 2015, 15:10 #67228

    Badarse, How do you know, were you even on here then, if you were it certainly would have been part time. But i'm flattered and honoured you took the time to check mine all that way back. I've no doubt my post/posts is/are as relevant now as it/they were then that should tell you something ( maybe not) unlike yours that are just gobbledegook with a bit of martian thrown in in your attempt/attempts to impress.

  132. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 15:09 #67227

    Nail on head there David. The Boardroom stand off is probably as much the story of AFCs perennial stalling as much as Wengers limitations really. Its reasonable to assume though that Wenger has nailed his colours to the present regimes position (understandable really as they employ him, though many bosses wouldn't have done had it not been in the coach's scheme of ambition) so that will cement the inertia there to a large extent.

  133. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 15:05 #67226

    @Ron, That was GG's strength, backs to the wall football. We scored 4 goals and only conceded 1 in the final 5 games of the ECWC. Why did this team regress in the 4 seasons after a best ever season of 91? Poor signings? Too many boozy nights? Too defensive? GG unbalancing the team with everything going through Wrighty? Some credit for Rioch/Wenger for getting the team back on track after GG lost the dressing room.

  134. David

    Feb 23, 2015, 14:54 #67225

    @Westie - you make some fair points - GG definitely never had the same money as SAF, and the club never had the same desire as Manc U to dominate English football. The odious Ken Bates wanted to do the same for Chelsea. Any manager needs the backing of the board if they are to continually succeed; so whether GG was as good a manager as SAF is hard to say. As Chelsea's success illustrates, it is the ambition of the board/chairman that most determines the success of a club. How many managers have they had in the last 10 years? 6/7? Yet they've eclipsed Arsenal, whose last 10 years have been about a veneer of moderate success disguising boardroom rifts that have culminated in a cold-war between the Russian and the Yank.

  135. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 14:45 #67224

    Westie - could we have had faith in a Wenger team beating Parma that night in a rear gaurd style? Could we hell. Zola Sensini Buffon Brolin Baggio Asprilla at al? They were slouches we re they mate? Keep protecting your Wenger egg mate but some of these guys were at the top of their powers.

  136. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 14:20 #67223

    @JJ If GG had the best defence in the country and Wrighty leading the attack, why did we fall away so badly from 91 when we only lost 1 game in winning the League? The following seasons we finished 4th, 10th, 4th & 12th. One argument is that GG lost his attacking nerve & played too pragmatically. Along the way we suffered a few humiliations with defeats to Wrexham & Millwall in the FA Cup & only scored a pitiful 40 goals in 92/93. To GG's credit we we won the Cup Winners Cup but it was hardly the strongest of competitions beating Odense, Standard Liege, Torino, Paris & Parma in the final with our only meaningful shot on target. Parma are in the news today having not paid any of their playing staff since July 2014. Reality suggests GG was probably hamstrung for money, a familiar story for all Arsenal managers. His poor final purchases of Pal Lyderson & John Jensen ultimately cost him his job. Yes, I was there when Jensen scored his only goal but we still lost 1-3 at home to QPR. Dark days indeed!

  137. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 14:03 #67222

    Tony - we can carry on summizing whether Wenger values any defensive position enough to find suitable quality cant we. Look at the GK in particular. Mid and bottom end of the table Clubs have had superior keepers to us for yrs. The weaknesses at full back have been harvesting ground for teams to score against us for years, though the Coaching of them leaves much to wonder too. We ve had a diet of poor quality CBs for years too. Many of them have been embarrassingly bad. Silvestre, Stepanovs, Senderos and Cygan the immdiate names to mention. Kolo Toure was a decent sort of player, but relied so much on Sol being at his peak best didnt he. These we have now are only a slight notch better than any of these and thats a reserved view for me so far as the so called 'BFG' is concerned. The DM s role dominated for so long by Song and latterly Flamini since Gilberto is disappointing to say the least. Wengers game plan of 6 similar type, light framed players buzzing about like flies on the assumption that the opponent wont see enough of the ball to get at our low grade defence has been a disaster as much as anything due to those players themselves not being of a good enough calibre in my view.Its worked to the degree that the weaker teams haven't coped with it, but the best sides rumbled it yrs ago didn't they.

  138. Bard

    Feb 23, 2015, 13:44 #67221

    Chris; sorry have I missed something . I thought the whole point of footy was winning trophies, indeed any sport. That its beauty, winners and losers, black and white no argument. When there are trophies for shirt colour or the state of the pitch then we might be in with a shout. I may be wrong but isn't our net spend this season significantly higher than Chelsea's. You are quite right Athletico can't win La Liga every year but they sure as hell make a better fist of competing that we do. I believe they beat Chelsea in last years CL if Im not mistaken. But of course its just a one off. Its a pity we haven't had any one offs in the last decade. Of course money makes a difference but to continually hide behind as an excuse for failure is a sign of weakness. Also whats an unjustified assertion, I know what a unjustified insertion is. Does it mean we disagree?

  139. Tony Evans

    Feb 23, 2015, 13:33 #67220

    Ron and SKG - a full back that can defend, stop crosses getting in to the box, get forward to stick a few decent balls in to the opposition's box and support the front players is worth so much to the team. Maybe even nick a goal or three like Ivanovic at Chelsea. Ashley Cole was a perfect example of the craft and although players of his calibre do not grow on trees I wonder whether Wenger values the position high enough on his radar to be even out there looking.

  140. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2015, 13:28 #67219

    Talking of piggy backs. Wenger was on one for his first decade at Arsenal. Adams carried him everywhere and GG invented the condition for the VHS/Betamax man so he could **** around with menu cards in the canteen til he realised ummm room temperature water and a bit of boiled chicken will do nicely. Meanwhile Adams tucked into his steak and chips while the trophies flowed in. Giroud is not doing too badly but then having nine midfielders and an attacking GK feeding him he should be scoring a few against albeit the Minnows. Lots of good posts as usual including WeSTIE as ever but the other AKBs (including the pseuds) well JEfF certainly put that to bed ...

  141. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 13:05 #67218

    SKG - We ve never replaced Ashley have we. He was a genuine top class footballer. Westie - yr point re Giroud mate - not all of us have joined the bash Giroud band you know. Many of us have said hes an OK player and yr right, his figures look good. Hes done OK. The mainstream view is that hes not top marque and isnt going to be. His goals are nearly all against lower ranked teams and while hes a decent target man, its not surprising that Arsenal are linked with Martinez and Cavani etc. I quite like him as you do, but i dont see him as ever being good enough to spearhead an attack in a team that aspires to titles and CL s. He s a player for a 4th place chase though, every day of the week.

  142. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 12:52 #67217

    Havent over looked Fergie Westie. He survived because he won trophies consistently. No Utd Coach survives without doing that do they. Van Gaal needs to get them into the top 4 this yr as a basic i suspect otherwise he s likely to be walking in quicksand.

  143. Tony Evans

    Feb 23, 2015, 12:45 #67216

    Hi Westie - no problems with the substitutions; quite right to try to shut up shop at 2-0 up. Even with the extra defenders on though we still allowed far too many crosses in and that is a problem that has been all to evident for far too long now.

  144. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 23, 2015, 12:22 #67215

    Chris Dee : Spot on mate, I think I read that Palace put in over 60 crosses into our box throughout the game. The last few minutes Chambers was a couple of yards away from Bolaise because he knew he could skin him with ease so he had to stay goal side. None of our current full backs seem to get close enough to their "quarry" - remember watching Ashley Cole strangle some very good wingers simply by excellent positional play and brilliantly timed tackling. Saturday again proved to me again that Chambers is not a full back as Mr Bolaise came on and cut him a new one!

  145. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 23, 2015, 12:05 #67214

    yeah fair point Westie. I watch Big Match Revisited a fair bit and see some old games on Youtube. What strikes me is (a) the playing surface - usually awful (Highbury was one of the much better pitches in that respect) and (b) the players generally look like stick insects - all that running in training I guess. They are bigger fitter and stronger now I'm sure.

  146. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 11:51 #67213

    @WABATTD, Of course a player/team can play every day of the week but the performances will drop off considerably game by game. As long as the opposition are similarly fatigued it'll be less noticeable than if the other team are relatively fresh. Modern players are able to run faster than in your fathers day, partly because of conditioning & partly they play on a faster surface. Just watch any old footage of a 70's game and I doubt the game would be allowed to go ahead these days. Players like Bellerin & Walcott are approaching Olympic standard as athletes. In the 70's it was all about attrition & physical toughness. Today it's largely been replaced with speed & technique with more enlightened coaches in charge. The British pub team hasn't moved on & remains just that.

  147. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 11:22 #67212

    Bard - Sorry dude but that's a poor post offering nothing but a couple of tired and unjustified assertions that aren't backed up with anything. 'Wenger isn't in Mourinho's league' is the conclusion you'd come to by totting up trophies and ignoring everything else precisely the point of my post. And the 'money debate' has been very far from shown to be flawed - you'd have to be very one-eyed and a bit daft to think that but can't be arsed going into it again now. The two one-offs you mention don't show anything substantial. And last time I looked, Simeone's team wasn't in the top 2 in Spain, had only finished there once and didn't look like they had much chance of doing so this season...

  148. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 23, 2015, 11:19 #67211

    Westie, I know, it must be so hard for these professional footballers to, well, you know, play football. My old man played to a pretty good standard and told me he'd have played every day of the week if he could have.

  149. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 10:51 #67210

    @WABATTD, Surely to don't believe it's an advantage to play Thursday & Sunday? Being fatigued doesn't mean you cant win but it's harder to turn in an outstanding performance with tired minds & legs. The Sours & Everton hardly sparkled did they? This was the first occasion when the Sours hadn't lost at home after playing on Thursday, hardly a coincidence is it? CFC couldn't hold on to a lead at home against lowly Burnley after a tough game in Paris, cue a squealing Maureen.

  150. Bard

    Feb 23, 2015, 10:46 #67209

    Chris, the whole debate is floored mate. Maureen is a twat but a successful one, Wenger isn't in his league, he's a good second rate manager nothing more. And don't start the whole money debate. Its been done to death and shown too be largely flawed. Its the refuge for the Wenger apologists, always complaining that we don't have the cash to compete. Maureen won the CL with Porto, Simone won la Liga and last time I looked they thrashed RM 4-0. Most of the really great managers were difficult and sometimes nasty aka Fergie. It goes with the territory.

  151. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 10:38 #67208

    @Ron You've overlooked Fergies longevity at Man U as the counter argument to hire'en, fire'em? No short shelf life for him! Klopp is now bringing BD out of the doldrums so again patience is a virtue.

  152. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 23, 2015, 10:33 #67207

    Ain't the "Europa League playing on a Thursday means you're knackered on a Sunday" thing funny. Spuds were lining up to use it as an excuse up to the 96th minute yesterday, now it's gone a bit quiet. Didn't see the Bin Dippers having too much of a problem with it either. Perhaps the extra 2 hours they got to prepare for kick off made all the difference. Hmmmmm.

  153. chris dee

    Feb 23, 2015, 10:32 #67206

    Just love 'scrappy wins'. But our full backs are still allowing crosses into the penalty area far too easily.But hopefully Arsene will sort this out as it's only been a problem for ten years.

  154. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 10:28 #67205

    Ron - I'm not dismissing Mourinho's comments completely but am trying to put them into a proper context and see them for what they are. I'd totally agree that he's feeling the pressure and seeking to deflect it but the reality is he's slept with the devil (made his success at rich clubs by spending their money) so he can hardly complain that he's picked up a nasty dose.... To compare the two coaches with respect to piggy-backing and buying success: Wenger undoubtedly did benefit when he arrived at Arsenal but we weren't a particularly good team then and he didn't spend much when he arrived. Mourinho arrived with Chelsea second and spent big - real big- immediately. Similarly, at Inter, he arrived when they had just won the title three times in a row. And Madrid were hardly in the doldrums when he arrived ad he was allowed to spend big, once again. Your point about club culture is fair enough but only goes so far: immediate and sustained success is expected when you are allowed to spend big and hire-and-fire etc. So the fact that Arsenal's culture promotes Wenger's long stay (together with his continued success in the eyes of the club) is balanced by the fact that it prevents the investment needed to constantly challenge. Wenger's long stay also prevents him piggy-backing which, as you say, is almost always beneficial to a coach (even Mourinho) because it allows him to make the most of the work of the previous coach, who will have had some complementary qualities / insight so this own. Fergie neatly got round this by bringing in e.g. Querioz.

  155. Bard

    Feb 23, 2015, 10:16 #67204

    Morning shipmates, I apologies for my unexpected absence. I have been temporarily incapacitated and unable to take part in the usual 'muskets at dawn' repartee on here. Its a long story. In order to bring more balance to my life ( watching endless repeats of the boss explaining himself is not good for relational life) I decided to take the good Helen out to see 50 Shades of Grey. I hoped it would add a little sparkle to our nocturnal life. What a mistake. We sprinted home after the film, anxious that we shouldn't waste a moment. It all went Pete Tong from the outset. I was expecting to be giving the orders but Helen had other ideas. Five minutes in one of her headlocks had me begging for forgiveness and Helen a thirst for more domination. An hour later I looked like dear old Abou after his morning shower; dislocated shoulder, torn hammy, covered in bruises. I have just emerged from a week in the local hospital. My mates now call me Jack I spend so much time off work. Friends here is some sage advice should you be tempted. Make sure you chose the right end from the kick off. Make sure you always have the handbrake on. 70% possession is no good if you don't spend critical periods in the opponents box where the real damage is done and what ever you do don't get turned over and spanked. Now where were we ?

  156. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 9:56 #67203

    @Tony, I agree it's galling to 'throw' away a 2-0 goal lead in injury time, just ask Big Sam, but there's always more too it than meets the eye. With a 2 goal lead & ECL game in midweek was it right or wrong to replace, Alexis, Ozil & Welbeck with Rosicky, Gibbs & Gabriel? On the face of it we should have been stronger defensively with 2 defenders replacing 2 attackers. Unfortunately it also changes the dynamic of the game when a side adopts a pragmatic stance. Palace no longer had to fear a swift counter attack & felt confident to surge forward in the final minutes. Their first goal was a scrambled affair, typical of the home team throwing the kitchen sink. The near miss in the final minute was due to a fabulous cross & header which on another day would have gone it. Of course the counter argument is that Ozil had a perfectly good goal disallowed in the 2nd minute & Alexis should have buried an easy chance & at 4-0 it's a different end to the game. The biggest mystery to me is why fans still leave before the climax of a game which is so often in injury time.

  157. Ron

    Feb 23, 2015, 9:36 #67202

    Hi Chris - I reckon every coach piggy backs as you say. Even a coach replacing another when going to a struggling team does so. There are always some strong facets of a team though often latent under a struggling coach who gets the sack and then the strengths somehow restored under a new man and to give him a platform. Wengers time span at Arsenal is a matter of club culture as much as anything else. We re not a hire and fire Club and never have been but Mourinho has a point however unpalatable it is. I cant see many of the Worlds top men arguing with him anyway, all of whom are 'vagabonds' by yr definition. Wengers piggy backing too was as clear as it could be. His early yrs of success from 98 to 2003 were based on GGs spine and Club culture. Mourinhos comments are laced with bias and are partial but to dismiss them as youre doing is to be as equally selective as he. In fairness, many of comments this season suggests that he wants the same stability for his own position as Wenger has had. Will he get it without trophies? Of course he wont. Chelsea like RM, like Barca, like BM and Man U are trophy machines who want to be the primary Clubs in Europe if not the World. Changing coaches is endemic to them and necessary. Like top jobs in industry, the men at the helm have short shelf lives. The pressure to succeed is a massive toll on them. They know the shelf life in the post is limited. Arsenal dont seek the same objective. Wengers position no doubt has its stresses but i suggest its nothing near to coaching at those Clubs. AFC are a comfortable Club and have always liked it that way, right back to the past Old Etonian corinthian club culture. It has its attractions and can be applauded, but for a Club to strive for the very top its counter to doing it.

  158. Badarse

    Feb 23, 2015, 9:27 #67201

    Morning guys, well a quick survey and I see four posts; maguiresbridge's is a recycled one from October 2011, (gone straight into the green waste),a succinct and intelligent one from Chris which prompts response, a typical observational post from westlower, (well we have championed the lad for the whole journey 24601, a bit of wow factor in there, so take a personal bow, I'll-so a bow-wow...woof woof), and Tony Evans good post which surely deserves dissecting.

  159. Chris

    Feb 23, 2015, 9:00 #67200

    It's amusing how so many fall over themselves to line-up along side 'winner' Mourihno and against 'loser' Wenger', almost as if his qualities are then reflected in themselves (although I'd suggest the opposite is the case). We could argue until the cows come home about who's the best coach, although we probably wouldn't have to because most would admit that Mourinho very well maybe. But to ignore the context of the situations of the clubs that the two have managed, and the fact that Wenger is still at Arsenal for a reason whereas Mourinho is a vagabond for a reason, is madness. Mourinho's recently repeated comments about how Wenger is so lucky to have stability ignore the fact that that stability is largely self-created and are clearly a half-arsed attempt to deflect from the obvious elephant in the Mourinho front room that he has bought success and piggy-backed on other coaches work everywhere he has been since Porto...

  160. Westlower

    Feb 23, 2015, 8:52 #67199

    In praise of Olivier Giroud on scoring his 50th Arsenal goal. One of the most maligned & criticised players, both on this site & by 'expert' pundits. He has become a key player in the team. Giroud has scored 31% of Arsenal's headed goals, scoring 13 in total + 34 with his stronger left foot & 3 with his right. 47 came inside the box & 3 outside. He has become an ideal target man & foil for the speedy technicians playing off him. Yet another example why a player should be given time to fulfill his potential & not be ejected to satisfy the 'kneejerk' brigade.

  161. Tony Evans

    Feb 23, 2015, 8:18 #67198

    3 points are 3 points I suppose and with 5 teams scrapping for the 4th place trophy they were very welcome. Arsenal seem to have gone full circle now away from home - the heart-stopping gung-ho football has now morphed in to nick a goal and then sit back. I think we are inviting too much pressure on to ourselves now - we were punished at WHL and just about got away with it on Saturday. Surely there is a happy medium somewhere between the two extremes that we just don't seem able to find. At 2-0 up with 2 minutes of injury time to go we nearly ended up at 2-2 for Christ's sake! This side still does not inspire confidence does it.

  162. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 22, 2015, 22:43 #67197

    DWT, good post, things still aren't right even though some would like you to think they are, and i think we all know why, and it's the same reason we're never going to be there competing for first place anymore. Hiccup 70743, I think it would go down well, the fans would love it.

  163. Badarse

    Feb 22, 2015, 22:02 #67196

    Well said jeff, and goodnight.

  164. jeff wright

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:31 #67195

    Well Baddie as you say the ball did not go into our goal when it hit the post and that's all that matters. I was really just commenting on the good fortune of this and my use of the goal post saved us is the sort of common comment that you hear or read regarding these incidents. I perhaps should have included a passing reference to trajectories and trigonometrical theory Adjacent is always next to the angle and opposite is opposite the angle .lee KFC thinks that trigonometrical theory is something to do with Del Rodney Trotter in Only Fools And Horses.

  165. Ron

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:29 #67194

    David - ive always thought that in many ways we did have a foreshortened taster of SAF in the shape of GG. The watch tapping, the referee pressure, the clever use of the press, the fear factor, the intolerance,the fortress mentality, the aggression and relentless demands of his charges in the name of the supercharged imagery of his Club that he promoted. These characteristics were all George's and its known that SAF was a figure to whom he aspired and took counsel from on GGs own admission. If Westie was going to be consistent in his damnation of SAF,it follows that he should bracket GG in the same way and some times his and others preferred recollect of GG does so. Our boy from Bargeddie was cut from the same cloth wasnt he.

  166. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:28 #67193

    Not being rude, but.... Who recently said: : “Some critics say I’m bumptious and can be pompous. If people say that, there may be truth in it.” And who will never say that?

  167. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:27 #67192

    Hiccup, and we all know what the Arsenal procedures on banners are don't we,( probably on the say so of Lord Moon himself) especially if they're the kind showing fans are fed up to the back teeth with him and want him out but of course ones showing him as some kind of great manager or messiah are fine. But no doubt this one and others like it would be viewed just the same and orders would be issued to (after an internal body search) confiscate, destroy, and take no prisoners, after all they've all got their noses in the same trough, even though some think/believe, and would swear they haven't.

  168. Ron

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:18 #67191

    The self anointed voice of fake integrity speaks, arise Sir Badarse. Carry forth your torch of spite and hypocrisy to that dwelling in which you rest your tortured disposition and ponder Confucius - Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.

  169. Badarse

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:16 #67190

    I did begin my offering, (nearly typed post), with the statement of not wanting to be pedantic jeff, but I'd forgotten you were still up. Of course those shots can go in or not depending on where the ball strikes the woodwork, how much of it that it strikes, the spin of the ball, even wind plays it's part, as with yourself. I just assumed people would cut to the essence of what I'd said. If a shot strikes the woodwork and deflects in it automatically becomes 'on target', enough of the ball has seen fit to spin into the goal, otherwise it is off target. The own goal? Well I'll award you a point, a brownie point, and a sticker too for that.

  170. jeff wright

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:05 #67189

    So are you saying Baddie that shots that hit posts never deflect into the goal ? There is an element of chance involved as to where the ball goes when striking a post if it goes into the net then it's a goal if not then it's a miss with a goal kick or corner resulting .The post plays a part in this as do players who inadvertently deflect the ball into their own goal. These players are credited with scoring an own goal,Something that you yourself are of course well acquainted with doing!

  171. David

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:03 #67188

    @ron - wonder how westie would feel about sir AF, if he had come to Highbury (he was the board's first choice) instead of GG? There might never have been an AW era. In a parallel universe. ..

  172. Ron's twin

    Feb 22, 2015, 21:02 #67187

    Ron, have had your cocoa yet as it is way past your bedtime...? Pooh, you stink of something, must be your nappy changing time too....

  173. Badarse

    Feb 22, 2015, 20:58 #67186

    Thank goodness you happened by when you did Ron; you were just in time to explain who westlower was referring to, why he did, where he is going wrong, and for good measure gave a 'quaint' character assassination to boot. There was me facing a troubled sleep, but your emphatic reasoning was all I needed, in fact it's all most on this site need.

  174. Badarse

    Feb 22, 2015, 20:45 #67185

    Not being pedantic, but posts never save us. They do not move and tip a shot...well around themselves. A shot striking the frame of the goal is recorded as off target, as it is, very close, but off target all the same. Offside rule has been ridiculous ever since it was first explained to me-it has become ever more so with each little tweak. Whatever happened to 'daylight' being seen? If it was a given that a player was onside until he was at least the obligatory half yard/daylight it should remove the unfairness felt. There would still be discussions, (arguments on here), as to whether on or off, and poor decisions/errors by officials, but we could learn to accept that a slightly advanced position was acceptable-providing it was that half an arm's length but no more. The penalty decisions should be simplified too. How often do we hear a font of knowledge say, 'Not for me.', whilst his erstwhile pundit partner says a vague, 'Well I've seen them given.' If a ball is kicked from close range and an arm is extended penalty, to strike an arm in a natural position then not. There is always a 50/50 call whereby a team takes a free kick from just outside the box. Anything constructive rather than herberts like Robbie Savage deliberating. It was a penalty yesterday, but the thing is, as it was so close it becomes unarguable-given or not. A human call from ref or lino. Technology would be fine perhaps, but goal line officials have proven to be incompetent-is it a status thing where they may be seen to be more powerful than the ref? Probably when my grandkids are my age this will still be a talking point, no by then no one will care enough anymore. Incidentally, for their goal, Saha should have been penalised for a high boot, not to mention kicking through Rosicky when the ball was the other side of the Arsenal man, making it unplayable. In fact the ball hit Rosicky on the shoulder, cannoned onto BFG's knee, and only then was it within playing range of the Palace man. Correct decision-Free kick to the Arsenal.

  175. Ron

    Feb 22, 2015, 20:26 #67184

    David - Ha Westie means Sir AF mate. The description disregards he was one of the greatest bosses football has ever seen. Westies knife is into him for having the temerity to keep Mr Wenger under his thumb for so many years. Mourinho is similarly disparaged now for doing the same thing. He has to protect his foggy illusion of Wenger being included in the same bracket. Its quite quaint really.

  176. David

    Feb 22, 2015, 20:06 #67183

    @westlower- he might've been bent in the end, but ' Glaswegian thug ' is no way to describe George Graham.

  177. David

    Feb 22, 2015, 19:56 #67182

    @we are building - and don't forget Celhurst park in the 90s playing Wimbledon.

  178. Westlower

    Feb 22, 2015, 19:20 #67181

    Refs need urgent help to up their performances. I partly blame the Glaswegian thug for reducing the match officials to figures of fun after many years of bullying & intimidation, particularly at OT. Simplify the ambiguous offside rule, offside should mean offside, not is the offending player in the line of vision of the GK. Give timekeeping duties to the 4th official as he does little else. If football wants the correct decisions to be given then the available technology must be applied. At present the officials are deciding the outcome of too many matches, sadly through too many bad decisions. Latest betting on Top 3 finish on Betfair: AFC 5/7, Man U 9/5, L'pool 4/1, TH 7/1, Southampton 7/1.

  179. Hiccup

    Feb 22, 2015, 19:19 #67180

    Jeff, I'd officiate the game from the stand. Theres usually 3 or 4 big calls in a game that will swing the result. The most hilarious thing that sticks in my mind is the 2010 world cup when Argentina scored a goal against Mexico that was 2 yards offside. At the time there were no protests from the Mexicans because no one at the time was too sure. Then the stadium showed a replay and all the players and officials saw it. ****ing hilarious. And the goal still stood. I don't know whether they'd show the fans replays with my idea? I'd do it like cricket or rugby when they're waiting if it's out or not out. The crowd could entertain themselves with my favourite Mexican Wave as the outcome is decided, followed with a big "oooohhhhh" as the 'goal kick' or 'corner' decision flickers on.

  180. DW Thomas

    Feb 22, 2015, 19:06 #67179

    Good result, got lucky at the end. Soha lost, so third is ours for now. Ozil looks better each game,but offensively we were poor. When CP dominates you, you know things are off. We still lack something in the team. Not exactly sure what anymore. Maybe it's just new ideas, or better motivation. City looks back to their best and Yaya is back big time. Still we have a chance at third maybe. We need another long of wins. Bigger question as always is why can't we ever be there competing for first? At the end of the season?

  181. jeff wright

    Feb 22, 2015, 18:55 #67178

    Hiccup , you would have thought that anything that can improve the game would be used but for whatever reasons, and money could be one,loss of power another, the powers that be prefer to be stuck in a time-warp still using 19th century technology.Two linesmen and a ref with a whistle .The goal-line hawk-eye technology is an improvement but more needs to be done on other issues. The extra-men behind the goals in Euro games are not much cop either they all appear to need a visit to SpecSavers or to be given a white stick and a guide dog!

  182. Hiccup

    Feb 22, 2015, 18:31 #67177

    Jeff, the richest and most popular game in the world, still officiated at Sunday park level. There's more science involved in lawn bowls with a tape measure than this farce. Problem is, who pays for the extra official? The money's got to come from somewhere? I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind paying a little extra if refereeing mistakes were eradicated. Maybe a survey or a petition could be started?

  183. jjetplane

    Feb 22, 2015, 18:21 #67176

    Finger Licking good but let's hope those nasty scousers don't get up a head of steam leaving the Mancs, Spuds and err Arsene FC to try and get a thursday night free! Loving this ****!

  184. jeff wright

    Feb 22, 2015, 18:17 #67175

    MG, Liverpool are looking menacing since we lost that 2-1 lead to them in the dying moments of extra-time at Anfield they have not looked back and are now just 2 points off 4th spot.Well done Arsene ! I stick with my view that our games to come against Liverpool,H. April 4th,at least it's not the first ! Mourinho, H. April 25th and United away in the Prem second last game May 16th will decide where we finish. Considering Wenger's record against Maureen and at OT now days it is best not to take anything for granted. On another note this weekends cock-ups by match officials only strengthens the case for a video 4th official such as they have in other sports.

  185. Hiccup

    Feb 22, 2015, 18:15 #67174

    The disturbing photo begs the question just where the hell are the stewards to aggressively rip down those banners? I just hope the arsenal chief safety officer can pass on some some handy procedures to Palace should this unsavoury incident happen again. This is highly offensive to those like jamie that don't mind paying high prices. If you're in a Marco Pierre White restaurant you expect to pay high prices, and don't want your evening ruined by a party kicking off that the prices aren't that of Wetherspoons. All good stuff though. Banners, surveys and letters. I'll try the same approach next time I'm at a Waitrose checkout. I'll be stood there with a placard demanding cheaper prices, as I key in my MasterCard security PIN number. But not to worry. The clubs ain't daft. Undesirable fans wanting to pay less who still haven't realised they're not wanted will eventually be driven out either by waking up to the fact or bankruptcy. And the finger of blame will be pointed at Murdoch. Stan must be p!ssing himself.

  186. Lee afc

    Feb 22, 2015, 18:14 #67173

    Yet another away win and three points in the bag. Keep it going Arsene.....ssssshhhhhhh Jeff. Please sssssshhhhh.

  187. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 22, 2015, 17:37 #67172

    jw, yes it's so exciting isn't it? I could crush a grape. And just wait until the end gets closer and we're still hovering there and the spin kicks in and they have us all frenzied up (well some of us anyway)like we actually have something to play for like silverware instead of extra money, then we scrape through again the spin machine goes into overdrive, the AKBs and the hard on brigade go mad (if there's a difference) standing proud, and whooping. oooh the excitement i can't wait.

  188. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 22, 2015, 16:56 #67171

    And Wally didn't get a chance to try out his new red boots, no doubt he had some celebratory routine worked out if he'd scored maybe Giroud could have licked them with his tongue. Or he'd had them tied around his neck while telling us all about it on camera, I guess he'll just have to wait until he says something nice about arsene again.

  189. anti-wenger

    Feb 22, 2015, 16:21 #67170

    Welldone to the team, not many of our top 4 rivals will get 3 points at Selhurst park. So we're fighting for top 4 again this season? Which is what we'll still do next season and the season after that still. I don't see AW winning the EPL ahead of Chelsea or ManC anytime soon. This is the farthest Wenger can take us, let's thank him for the amazing job he's done for the club so far,immortalise him and move on. As Mou observed, Arsene is just waiting and waiting for success to happen, which is not likely to happen. Arsenal fans are just hanging in there,more out of 'hope' than 'expectation'.

  190. jeff wright

    Feb 22, 2015, 15:04 #67168

    So then the general consensus seems to be that we were lucky to win with a dubious early penalty again away to help out ... with the goal post saving us at the death ... all rather familiar stuff really ... Whereas on the other hand United were unlucky to lose .... what a shame is there no justice ! While poor Chelsea were the victims of the slings and arrows of adversity... according to Maureen that is ... although on the evidence seen he appears to have a case ... roundabouts and swings though some would say... however no excuses for the spuds they were ... well the spuds... late goals and all that... albeit they did not need them against us... there must be a reason for that ...non...>? ... never mind we are in 3rd at the moment... unless Southampton beat Liverpool later in which case we won't be... of course Rodgers crew could win the game or get a draw to close in on 4th spot ... ain't it exciting this 4th place trophy battle ... by this time next week it could all have changed again yo-yo style with 3rd and 4th places being fought over now like rats over a scrap of offal ... City continue despite recent setbacks to offer the only challenge to Chelsea for the title while we play dirges in the dark way off the pace the AKB's are as happy as Larry though getting it off on Arsene's illusions yet again. It doesn't take much to get these little fellows excited that's for sure.Someone will be predicting Euro glory for Arsene next ! You couldn't make it up.

  191. Charlie Charlie

    Feb 22, 2015, 14:53 #67167

    Funny how life is all about perspective. I sat with the Crystal Palace supporters in the Stephenson block (same view as Ed in opposite direction with post in line with penalty spot). All very civilised. - no searches, seat in proper bar before ko and even got to order my interval, I mean halt time drinks, before going to watch the first half. All very civilised and prawn sandwichy and much to my liking! Not overly expensive tickets but a much better experience than at the Emirates.

  192. Mike

    Feb 22, 2015, 14:46 #67166

    Lucky win - Palace deserved to draw - 50th Goal for Giroud who is banging them in left, right and center. People were wondering where goals would come from if Sanchez stopped scoring

  193. arsenesnose

    Feb 22, 2015, 14:28 #67165

    even a blindman can tell that we have two fullbacks who cannot defend. thank god pardew didnt use bolassie in the first half- presumably he thought bellerin would play so targeted only the hapless ( hopeless) monreal, who only gets a game because gibbs is even worse! and as for chambers...... not a clue. i'm just wondering what his best position actually is supposed to be. benchwarmer probably. he appears to have learned nothing since arriving, except how to get booked. very lucky they didnt capitalise on these two, but credit to sanchez and welbeck for their efforts to cover for them.

  194. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 22, 2015, 14:19 #67164

    Aren't they all Ed, nothing to write home about, another regulation three points against mediocre opposition although they done their very best to cock it up in the end with the post saving us, and TOF sitting looking on clueless (as usual). We're up to third now better than fourth that, we can all celebrate (with a spot of bouncing)Hurrah.

  195. Westlower

    Feb 22, 2015, 14:17 #67163

    Great support as always from the Eagles fans, probably the best set of fans ever in the PL. Arsenal must be commended on digging out a win in a hostile environment, particularly a carefully prepared pitch ensuring players were struggling to stay on their feet all afternoon. Ospina hardly made a save in the first half which speaks well for our defending. The more I see of Ozil the more I like him. Wonderful moment when he lobbed the ball over Ward before setting up Alexis for what should have been the 3rd goal. He's looking stronger with each passing game and is a class act. Predictable injury time onslaught by the home team and a post saved us all 3 points. I backed the draw at 16.26pm at 35/1 & 16.35pm at 47/1. Glad I didn't collect as that win sets us up nicely for the week ahead. Every chance to consolidate 3rd spot in PL.

  196. Ron

    Feb 22, 2015, 13:47 #67158

    Hi Kev. Palace is like Villa Park isnt it. No matter how anemic Arsenal are, they never lose and the home side is left cursing. Its a pity Arsenal have never had the cajones to make a few of the top Clubs stadiums similarly beneficial to them. Palace is a unique feeling as you say.

  197. Badarse

    Feb 22, 2015, 13:11 #67155

    Paulo75, were you in the clique then maguiresbridge would be acclaiming that the post of the day. I bestow the Badarse Seal of Approval though, very amusing.

  198. Paulo75

    Feb 22, 2015, 13:07 #67154

    Always thought this would be a tough game so three points is a great outcome whether deserved or not. United lost, Spurs losing and Southampton and/or Liverppol to drop points later today - Carlsberg don't do football results.....

  199. Badarse

    Feb 22, 2015, 12:57 #67153

    Hilarious. The author makes observational comments, his account flows in painting a picture, and yet a few line up to throw custard pies-with not one direct hit. If you want a proper target remember I give those juicy three points for a direct hit in the mush, but also remember, I throw back-and us darts throwers are quite accurate.

  200. jjetplane

    Feb 22, 2015, 12:55 #67152

    Ha ha ha Wickeeed .....

  201. Go a light Szczer

    Feb 22, 2015, 12:46 #67149

    Poor Kev had to queue up for a few minutes did he? I knew there was a reason why we built the soulless concerete bowl.I love going to Palace a real football groundd with real fans not a prawn sandwich convention which the Emirates is.Where you off to now Kev Waitrose?Hope the queues are not too long

  202. Frank

    Feb 22, 2015, 12:32 #67148

    Thought we were average at best,The chance that hit the post would have been no more than Palace deseved if it had gone in.Seems Wenger prefers Welbeck to Wally Walcott

  203. jjetplane

    Feb 22, 2015, 12:25 #67146

    'Just be thankful/for what you got/you may not have/a 10 thou a year box/...... All hail Arsene's Empire! Selhurst Park - lovely place, great memories and any Eagle supporters reading the above will not be disappointed by snobbishness than runs through said empire. Turgid.

  204. HowardL

    Feb 22, 2015, 12:10 #67144

    Don't recall much of a viewing problem in the 80s. From the Sky highlights it looked like more balanced referreing from Clattenberg and other Premier League refs that what we have become accustomed too. Coquelan could have easily been sent off. Definitely in the area for the penalty, anyway. And good 'Alamo' defending. And United lost.

  205. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 22, 2015, 11:38 #67142

    Sounds like Selhurst Park hasn't changed a bit since we used to go there back in the 1980's. A win is a win is a win I guess.