Whatever happened to Le Likely Lad?

Another last 16 game, another shocking first leg from Arsenal



Whatever happened to <i>Le</i> Likely Lad?


Occasionally, for variety, I like to reproduce the odd text message I am sent after a game. So here are a few – the first ones are all from Ian Henry…

Masterful, disciplined, organized, clinical, tactically astute. But not words applicable to Wenger’s teams.

Defensive shambles for 2nd and 3rd goals inexcusable at any level. Giroud so bad, Sanogo would have been better.

On the train home I met some fans who seriously believe our defence is sound, that Monaco were lucky and every other team in Europe would take Wenger tomorrow.

My response: So many brainwashed fools. One thing Wenger is good at is managing expectations

Ian H again: Shame we can’t play Expectations at the back

Mickey Cox: A dream draw that turned into a nightmare. No-one ever learns. Not to get off the bench once shows you everything about Wenger you need to know. Ozil and BFG past sell by date. Defence AWOL again. Leadership not there. So-called big players melted yet again. In my book a number 9 who gets six chances and comes up blank says it all.

Doktor Schneide: Apparently Gary Neville said Wenger will be very disappointed to see that performance tonight. Imagine how he’d feel if he had to pay to watch it.

One thing that will have hurt Arsene Wenger a little bit more about last night’s performance was that he was humiliated back in his native country. I wrote before the Leicester game that his stock is not that high back in France these days, but the nature of the defeat to a Monaco team some eleven points off the lead in Ligue Un would have sunk that to a new low.

Monaco’s wage bill, now they have been forced to straighten their finances due to Financial Fair Play and jettison Falcao and James Rodriguez, is a quarter that paid to Arsenal’s squad. So the the old ‘well we can’t possibly compete with the money the other team has chucked at their squad’ excuse isn’t going to wash, and as far as Europe is concerned, Diego Simeone and Jurgen Klopp have shown that money does not have to rule the day if you are tactically astute and able to motivate your players.

And what struck me last night was the lack of passion at Arsenal. In the stands, in the manager, and in the players (with the exception of maybe Alexis Sanchez and the Ox). The whole club is in desperate need of change and freshening up, something to break a long lasting malaise that is like the stench of something rancid left too long in the fridge. The stadium is like a morgue these days. This was a huge game in the season, yet you wouldn’t know it going by the atmosphere. It’s been gradually killed by the stasis that has been allowed to develop, and the increasing ticket prices changing the nature of the audience.

The phone-ins last night were asking for Diego Simeone. He might not be able to speak English, but his sheer passion would translate to Arsenal’s players, even through a translator, and the club could certainly afford him. Imagine what he could do with Arsenal’s budget. The crowd would pick up on the change in attitude in the team and respond.

What was most damning about last night was that Arsenal did not learn the lessons from an earlier match in the same competition this very season – at home to Anderlecht. Schoolboy defending once again ruled the day. Heads went.

And ultimately, the responsibility for that falls on the manager’s preparation of his team for this game. People saw this draw and were optimistic about the chances of progress, enjoying further luck in the draw and maybe somehow finally winning this long coveted trophy. However, this is a manager that has failed on 16 previous occasions, and critically, with much better teams. Arsene Wenger does not know how to prepare a team to get a result, and this is exposed time and again at the highest level. 2005-06 was of course the exception. Juventus and Real Madrid were beaten. But in the other 15 seasons, how many two legged victories can you recall when it really mattered? I can think of Inter Milan in the group stages of (I think) 2003-04. 5-4 on aggregate, not pure knockout, although Arsenal had to win away from home in the second match. Aside from that, I am struggling.

I went to an Arsenal Supporters Trust meeting on Monday night in which guest speaker, German journalist Raphael Honigstein, questioned whether Arsenal, as a club, really cared about winning (obviously not or the manager would have not been allowed eight years without a trophy). He questioned the way the club is structured in terms of the amount of power enjoyed by the manager and pointed out that it was a unique model amongst all the clubs of any significance in Europe. He added that it was an unhealthy situation where a manager appointed his own boss. It has to end, but the only man who can take that decision is Stan Kroenke. But Kroenke is happy with Wenger. The humiliation on the field is meaningless to him. People not turning up to sit in paid-for seats is meaningless to him. Even Champions League qualification is not that important to him because the Premier League pays so much and if the worst comes to the worst, a first team player can always be sold each summer to balance the books. The owner does not give two hoots about association football, so Wenger will remain until he has the balls to do the decent thing and resign or not renew. Until then, the malaise continues and every year, around this time, we hear the words ‘Groundhog Day’. It’s the supporting equivalent of Chinese Water Torture in perpetuity. However, some fans are perfectly happy with this state of affairs and wish the manager to continue. That means that what would force him out – open revolt in the stadium against Wenger – is not going to happen. It’s a shocking state of affairs that the club have let it reach the level where the disaffected either do not attend or end up fighting with Wenger loyalists in the stands. But Kroenke isn’t there to witness it, so it is meaningless to him.

Arsene Wenger is paid £8 million basic a year - £11 million including bonuses (presumably Champions League qualification). The fans are not getting their money’s worth. For that kind of money, you could get a manager who would bring back the excitement and passion to the stadium, have it rocking once again in big matches where his team actually turn up. I have long maintained that a different manager could get more out of this group of players simply through decent match preparation, motivation and organisation. And in-game tactics. Where were the in-game tactics last night when Arsenal took their foot off the pedal after a promising first ten minutes? Where was the suggestion that they try something different and play wider, rather than drifting in and playing into Monaco’s hands?

The bottom line is that the Monaco manager, who no-one had ever heard of, prepared for this game by analysing Arsenal’s strengths and weaknesses and doing a job on them. This with several key players absent and a 34 year old who wasn’t good enough for relegated Fulham last season as the pivot of their attack. Arsenal’s starting eleven featured nine full internationals, eight of whom were on duty at last summer’s World Cup Finals. All three subs were experienced international players. It’s shameful.

One wonders, with the visit to Old Trafford on Monday week, whether it will be a case of the club exiting two cups within a fortnight, as so often happens at this time of the year. We are all waiting for the great renaissance under Wenger. We were optimistic last season about a title challenge, blown away in atrocious displays at Liverpool and Chelsea, where defending was an afterthought. There was renewed optimism with the FA Cup win after a barren eight seasons, but hindsight has told us that Arsenal got lucky, and needed penalties to beat Wigan and extra time to beat Hull. They contrived to cock it up, but somehow managed to dig themselves out of self-inflicted holes caused by poor defending. Then, this season there was the masterful display at Manchester City. But it proved another in a long line of false dawns under this manager since the stadium move. We thought – hallelujah! – Arsene is willing to adapt his team’s approach to get results in the big games. But in the next big test – at Spurs – the players did not demonstrate the same diligence, in spite of taking the lead. And then, last night, in the competition that means everything to the manager, the lack of defensive awareness was criminal.

Sure, you could argue Arsenal were unlucky in front of goal, but there was no need to abandon any kind of shape and concede three. When gung ho started to take over, where was the guidance from the bench?

Looking around the stadium, the multifarious images of the current manager indicate he is some kind of deity, but he is a false god, and the sooner the Arsenal crowd as one accept it is time to move on and let the directors' box know it inside the stadium, the sooner this never-ending underachievement can be brought to an end. And if you still believe Arsene Wenger is the man to bring the glory days back to the club, take another look at the highlights of the matches against Anderlecht and Monaco at home this season and ask yourself this: Has a team without basic defensive organisation ever won the title in England or a European trophy?


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223
comments

  1. JM-LONDON

    Mar 03, 2015, 0:12 #67874

    Red member, I don't care for you... go & comment on the spuds website or wherever you might make an impact . My Dad is 79 years old and first came to see the Arsenal in 1957, I've been going off & on since 1972 (joined the army). You know ****all about us real people.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 01, 2015, 13:57 #67781

    brett dadson, his hands won't be tied OGL's aren't, the money's there OGl's wasted enough of it, it's all down to the coaching, and all that goes with it planning, tactics, etc, etc, that's what's tying this old frauds hands he's no good at it (and that's putting it mildly and some would say and give you a good argument that he never was) as a lot of said on here including myself any other manager worth his salt will coach these players a hell of a lot better, and would get a hell of a lot more out of these players OGL is simply not capable and hasn't been for a long time.

  3. brett dadson

    Mar 01, 2015, 11:34 #67770

    l agree totally, but whoever replaces wenger will still have kroenke up top. so his hands will still be tied to a certain extent

  4. maguiresbidge gooner

    Feb 28, 2015, 13:46 #67726

    jj, it really has got to the stage now (and we've been at that stage for quite a while but more so now)for this old man to go it/he really has got beyond a joke, he has taken this club as far as he can, why these AKB's and others can't see this and still support him is just unbelievable, what do they owe him? we owe him nothing it's actually the other way round. Bard, that's exactly what it's all about mate (regardless of what others think or tell you) unfortunately to many have been indoctrinated into thinking balance sheets, rate of spend, share prices, money in the bank, etc, and of course I mustn't forget pretty tippy tappy going nowhere football are more important (and they call themselves fans)if there were trophies for those we'd be doing the double every season. Until the proper manager comes in(and the sooner the better) and instils all that passion and will to win trophies in the club and players, and is only interested in silverware and making us feared again nothings going to change.

  5. Mel

    Feb 28, 2015, 9:02 #67706

    Brilliant commentary - listening to AW being interviewed is surreal as he talks like the defensive display has nothing to do with him - actually he might be right !

  6. Bard

    Feb 27, 2015, 18:24 #67682

    JJ welcome back a good post mate. What gets lost on here is the nature of the game itself. Its the peoples ballet, its tribal and its all about bragging rights and trophies. Its not some kind of art gallery or Marks and Spencer retail outlet. You are in it to try to win. Arsenal have sold their soul to mammon at the moment and lost sight of the whole point of the exercise. It is difficult but I think you can marry the two. Wenger has done a good job overseeing the transition but he has lost his mojo or the game has passed him by. We urgently need that passion back. Once its back the place will be rocking again.

  7. jjetplane

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:34 #67678

    Cheers MG but still have to laugh at some of these AKBs who think they are presently Arsenal. It's not just a club but a complete culture you are born into. Somtimes it comes with the old tin bath and a piss hole in the garden. It comes with every kid you meet is also Arsenal though as with all borderlands you will meet your Chelsea and Tottenham lads if you are a north Londoner. I have had guys from both sets who have been friends for years with lots of shared times and even did an India trip with a Hammmer and a Spud so i am also open to other clubs and fans because I just love football. I showed some patience with Wenger but by the time that French Wave had fizzled out I wanted him gone with it. If Arsenal were going to go against the others in a fighting fashion then I thought - 'let's be having it then!' But what has come to past is this spineless, insipid ghost corporation of a club with a non-personality at the helm. Sorry - but I was dragged up to expect some fight with my flair and that rubbish colonising Holloway is nothing short of sacrilege. **** 'em and now I must get around to watching that Barca/Citeh game. Here's one for CHRIS - saw Cambridge give a little old Sussex side a football lesson a couple of seasons back and am still impressed with the memory. That's football for yer. In the post modern game I can tie that in with Parlour's goal in Cardiff and Dixon's joy! Oh the days .....

  8. Bard

    Feb 27, 2015, 17:30 #67676

    Alex that was a very good post and asked some probing questions that get to the heart of the debate about what is the point. Of course the answer should read that the club are fighting tooth and nail to win things but sadly thats not the case hence the apathy. Despite all the rubbish written on here about nuances and other factors Arsenal as a football club exists solely to win matches, big matches and if the club aren't up for it there is little point to the whole thing.

  9. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 16:39 #67670

    jj, you've been missing all the crack alright with the usual outcome, but you haven't wasted any time getting back into it again with your excellent post.

  10. Trev

    Feb 27, 2015, 16:26 #67669

    Jeff, you're wrong. It doesn't fit my posts. I don't think I'm in danger. I'm not scared. Last night you were rambling like a mad man. It was very amusing.

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 16:22 #67667

    Bard, just like the Famous/infamous Mural at Highbury, but no doubt some wouldn't even know what that was.

  12. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2015, 16:11 #67666

    Trev,those who are paranoid do not realize it,but just because you are doesn't mean that they are not watching you ! ......... just for the record this summation of paranoia fits your posts :....... Paranoid individuals think they are in danger and look for signs and threats of that danger, potentially not appreciating other evidence. They tend to be guarded and suspicious and have quite constricted emotional lives. Their reduced capacity for meaningful emotional involvement and the general pattern of isolated withdrawal often lend a quality of schizoid isolation to their life experience.[2][verification needed] People with this particular disorder may or may not have a tendency to bear grudges, suspiciousness, tendency to interpret others' actions as hostile, persistent tendency to self-reference, or a tenacious sense of personal righ

  13. Alexthegooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 16:05 #67665

    The most telling observation of Kevin's report is the complete lack of any passion in and around the club. Wednesday night was a depressing experience, not only for the performance and result but the abject indifference from the fans toward the occasion. We are led to believe the champions league is the pinnacle of a teams ambition. The impression I got at the stadium, before, during and after the game was nobody really gives a ****! This begs the question as to why we are so intent on cheering the team into the top 4 year after year. I know many supporters who didn't bother going on Wednesday. If they can't be bothered in the knockout stage of the most prestigious club tournament in the world what does it say about our need to be involved in it at all? The need for a change is so blindingly obvious I have to laugh at the fans who still defend Wenger at all costs. What is it they are watching? Do they go to games and are they seriously excited about sitting in a 60k stadium which quite often has the atmosphere of a front room at home. The truth is there is very little to get excited about. We have seen the same scenario unfold year after year. The monotony has reduced us to yawning indifference. What a contrast to the early years of Wenger's reign when fans would skip to Highbury with bloated anticipation. I'm afraid only a change of management from the owner down to the coach will resurrect that sensation. Until then we will play at the highest level like interlopers only invited to make up the numbers. Accusations of being spoilt due to high expectations are only partially valid as the expectations have been set by the club. They built the new stadium, set high admission charges to give us greater revenue in order to compete with the best in Europe. We are still waiting.

  14. Trev

    Feb 27, 2015, 15:22 #67661

    Jeff, if you think that quote illustrates paranoia I suggest you look up the definition. You could also learn how to spell it correctly!

  15. jeff wright

    Feb 27, 2015, 14:53 #67656

    Trev,I don't need advice about paranoi from someone who posted :Trev said "I think it's a shame that the editor of an Arsenal fanzine comes across as unable to take joy out of an Arsenal win and that losing fires him up so much. "............ You couldn't make it up.

  16. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 27, 2015, 14:03 #67652

    Badarse, I think it's awfully convenient and reductive that you know what I 'really' want to do. I think you 'really' don't want to debate Wednesday's performance and how it correlates to similar performances as it would lead you into a critique that, for you, is taboo. Or (not wishing to be quite so reductive and so offering an alternative theory) perhaps you are simply incapable of such analysis?

  17. Red Member

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:51 #67650

    @Jamerson I am Red Member because that is how the club sees me and thousands others like me. the club sees us as customers now and not supporters. The trouble is if you treat your fanbase like that then you are going to attract criticism. For the most part I think that criticism against the current regime is warranted. I will let you drift off back to your AKB bubble where all that matters is to finish higher than Tottnum.

  18. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:50 #67649

    Ron, I have the utmost respect for your views and comprehensions, even the general manner in which you couch your posts, they are usually top notch. However I too have felt you a little inconsistent, and your dismissive attitude is always a fall-back position. There isn't any need to 'dis' someone, just come down a level mate. My age isn't relevant, is it? @E/G, you really only want to bang on about ousting AW-I don't, so no exchanges. The doctor was correct though, you all have to admit that.

  19. Ron

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:10 #67643

    Badarse - i would suggest to you that you change yr cracked DVD. Its gets you nowhere, but in the meantime ill carry on responding to your barbs and digs (they're getting progressively more tedious though fella) and anybody else's in a proportionate manner. If you're not happy with an opinion, why not simply ignore it? Its obvious that your main issue with me Badarse, is that a remote few respondents to my posts are some times kind enough to give a bit of support. You're massively inflated ego has a problem coping with that seemingly. As ive said before you need to grow up a bit. How old are you? 70 odd?

  20. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 13:09 #67642

    Daryn, indeed, but TOF certainly took the credit for it.

  21. tpm

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:58 #67639

    @goonercoylesboy simple question, who signs, develops, picks, trains, the players... @jamerson we have overtaken united as they have got worse whereas we have got less worse. hardly progress.

  22. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:46 #67638

    There you are it's just another blip, that's all right then. You couldn't make it up.

  23. Bard

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:23 #67635

    CCorwell; good post mate. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments. We are merely the background noise to the financial chicanery. We are faces in the background and we aren't needed. As Kev has pointed out the atmosphere at the ground is terrible on the whole and I concur. The main reason is because we are going nowhere as a club. The arguments that nights like Wed are just isolated blips on an otherwise upward trajectory is farcical. The club has never had more supposed quality players in its set up but we look like kids on a sunday park kick about. That Wenger shouldn't be held accountable for this state of affairs beggars belief. It is not the result on Wed that is the problem it is the manner of it. That a supposed top club can send a side out in the last 16 of the CL and play like that is quite extraordinary and for Wenger to lay the blame wholly with the players yet another example of a man avoiding his responsibilities.

  24. Red Member

    Feb 27, 2015, 12:21 #67634

    @Jamerson I am trying to work out whether you are a deluded fool, being paid by Arsenal FC or just a little bit simple. I will go with the latter for now

  25. Charlie George Orwell

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:59 #67629

    Chris – I agree with the sentiments of your response re rough and smooth, etc. I’ve supported Arsenal since 1968 and there’s been some pretty barren spells during those times. But I stayed loyal to my club not least because even though there were scant returns, we were at least doing our best to compete, there was an honesty about the club and we felt valued. All these things are invisible now and regardless of the amounts of cash available to the club – they should all be overflowing at all times. Try to change the status quo? Yes, absolutely – but it’s becoming incredibly difficult to do so the longer we go down the satellite TV induced greed-fest that has become modern top flight football. Arsenal FC has become a corporate behemoth where – literally – criticism in the form of banners, text, etc inside the ground is prohibited. It’s because as far as the Board are concerned, we don’t matter. What’s incredibly frustrating and sad is that Arsenal can survive pretty well like this. Guess it’s this kind of emasculation that draws so many of us here.

  26. GoonerGoal!

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:58 #67628

    Arsene Wenger, can anybody give me just two good reasons why this man should stay in his position of dictatorial power at Arsenal Football Club? Those who have visited this site over the past 5 years will know exactly where I have always stood on the Wenger/Gazidis/Kroenke debate. They are the designer/architects of the world’s most expensive seats at the least achieving of all the great football clubs in Europe, and their teams have perfectly reflected the demands made upon them by the Wenger-led faction. Years back, I took a stance where I simply refused to renew as long as things remained the same. Guess what? They did, and I have continued to refuse to be part of it. The longed for inevitable revolution is yet to arrive, but you can kick the mildest mannered dog around for just so long, but in the end it will say “ENOUGH is ENOUGH!” and it will turn… WENGER OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

  27. Milky

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:45 #67627

    To me Wednesday night we just don't have enough strength in depth. With Ramsey and Flamini injured we left a rookie, in Coquelin, in charge of protecting an already suspect back four. Looking at the bench AW didn't have many options but maybe Chambers could have done a shift alongside Coquelin. When I saw the team named I was worried as I just don't think we can have Ozil, Welbeck ( out of position admittedly ), Santi and Sanchez all starting the same game. And personally I would left Giroud on as he would have come good. COYG !

  28. radfordkennedy

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:38 #67626

    Tony Evans....I think I know the road in question mate,the one that goes round the arc De triomphe miss your chance to get off and you'll go round for ages.

  29. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:33 #67624

    Badarse - There is also the matter of your ongoing hypocrisy. A couple of weeks back, you made an 'invitiation' with your 'What do you want' post, then got upset when others didn't answer within the parameters that you'd set. But when I raise a point for debate, I'm 'trying to set the agenda' and 'should be more humble'. Then you accuse Ron of 'playing to the gallery'. Many of your posts are designed to do just that. Your post 71163 is a case in point. It could serve no other purpose than to look for an audience.

  30. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:30 #67623

    Exeter, that's ok, makes a change not to have a slanging match. This site is either black or white and hardly a hint of grey around. But as Westlowr said it doesn't matter who the manager is, I will support the Arsenal through thick and thin.

  31. Crimewatch

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:29 #67621

    Westlower- Your opinion on whether Wenger should stay or go isn't irrelevant, as most conversation on this particular board relates to whether Wenger should stay or go. So what is your opinion please? And 'I don't have any problem with a new manager being appointed' is not an opinion.

  32. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 27, 2015, 10:16 #67620

    But it isn't just some generalised Wenger in/out rant I've just made, is it Badarse. I've made a very specific claim regarding the methodologies being used hamstringing AFC from greater success. If that isn't a legit point to debate, then what is? goonercolesyboy seemed to think it was. So you've painted a conveniently false picture there of what I've said. You come out with lines like "the WOBs who feel their manhood is threatened by such a defeat" and then wonder at being met with 'open hostilities'. But you invite them. As you say, "I should offer an irritating post and they would have an instant target, in me!" You won't debate, you just want the attention.

  33. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:57 #67618

    goonercoleslyboy, thanks for your reasoned post. The trouble with fine lines and off nights and bad luck is they only serve to explain one offs. We're talking about a pattern here of performances in the big matches. When you see a pattern, there are reasons for it. Which is why I hold these flaws are endemic to the methodology, as I outlined before. This explains why we go around and around in circles at Arsenal

  34. Badarse

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:49 #67616

    Morning peeps. Well following on from you 24601, it's why I just pull away sometimes. The need to vent their ugly aggressive frustrations is just childlike. Clamouring for AW's head, any reasoned contention, (whether right or wrong), is attacked and the individual is quickly character assassinated. Open vilification is never acceptable and as I tell it, I am rewarded with open hostilities. You know I said recently leopard's cannot change their spots, dinosaurs cannot spot the changes-in the global sense of football with all it's ramifications, despite any understanding of the game, these aspects are connected. It is the AW IN/OUT hoki koki every groundhog day with this website sadly. That is not debate, and the sooner you as an individual E/G grasp it the better. You want to set the agenda-you cannot, become a little more humble, please. I never get Jehovah's at my house now-though I live in hope. I have been known to meet at the door grasping The God Delusion and conducted a ten minute spiel about it. I did once answer yes to the question 'Can we speak to you for a while?', but added that I chose the subject, and yes it was 'Arsenal'. No one dictates to me, nor should they you, that is anyone. I have a view I will endeavour to explain it as best I can, if counter views can change it good, if not good also, simples. Chris, goonercolesyboy, Trev-these are people I respect and could converse with, others generally follow an agenda and twist any exchange into a AW-bashing, so I bale then. And Ron, have said often you have much to offer but are quite often inconsistent and scared, giving Chris a bashing for opposing you isn't the stuff of men chap. Try to absorb that, and stop playing to the gallery, please.

  35. DJ

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:42 #67615

    Westlower: You state this site is anti-Arsenal but I would argue the complete opposite. The overwhelming majority all love Arsenal it is the manager and the board most are having a problem with! I admire your loyalty to our manager but I and many others feel it is time for a change. As a teenager I stood outside the marble hall with the baying mob chanting ‘Neill out!’ after disastrous home defeats against Walsall and West Brom. You probably think I am a traitor to the club but I think I was right then and believe it is time for change now.

  36. Chris

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:36 #67614

    CGO - CU fans expectations were not anywhere near met for the decade they were out if the league. Taking the rough with the smooth is my point. Anyway, if anyone's not happy and does something about it then I respect that. If you just winge on the internet and 'shout' at those who are less unhappy, I respect that less so. Where are the protests? Surely there are enough 'real' fans left to make a difference if they were to boycott and protest? Don't like it? Try to change it.

  37. Charlie George Orwell

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:21 #67612

    Begging your pardon Chris and with a great deal of respect to Cambridge United supporters - the expectations of CUFC and AFC fans ought to be light years apart. We should be COMPETING at the highest level. We are not and haven't been for some years. A blind person can see why that is so. Trouble is, saying it outright promotes vilification from the blindly loyal.

  38. Chris

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:17 #67611

    Westlower - Never a truer word spoke. Cornish - You tell me mate, I'm mostly working at home at the moment and the days kind of blur into one another. A quick check suggests it was Wednesday, and that today is Friday. Note to Cornish - the key to being pedantic is realising when a detail matters because it's relevant to an argument being made and when it's completely irrelevant, otherwise you end up boring yourself to death.

  39. Red Member

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:13 #67610

    @ Trev & Westlower your continuing attempts to put a positive spin on events is quite frankly now getting a little embarrassing. any argument about a balanced debate on the future direction of the club ceased in May 2012 when the decision was taken to offload Robin Van Persie and not to replace him with a striker that you would expect at a leading club in europe. Since then it has just become a steamrollering exercise against any stray AKBs. All opposition is futile as there can no longer be a defence for what is going on at the club unless you are happy to exist in a comatosed state of irrelevance. In the modern world of football this never ending cycle of hopelessness will exist indefinitely as the new breed of supporter is happy with their lot. Maybe the traditional supporter will have to learn to accept this and either go along with this new era of blandness or find another pursuit to enjoy

  40. Chris

    Feb 27, 2015, 9:05 #67609

    Tony - "supporting Arsenal over the last 7 or 8 years or so has been like being stuck on an awful roundabout" We should still count ourselves lucky. I suspect that for 95% of football fans it;s like that almost all of the time.. but they still carry on and usually love it! In my current home town, Cambridge United fans haven't had too much to shout about in recent decades but they were all still with the club, absolutely loved their evening hosting Man United and now are back down to earth again...

  41. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 27, 2015, 8:56 #67608

    Sorry Chris you've lost me. Were we playing Monaco on Monday Tuesday or Wednesday?

  42. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2015, 8:46 #67607

    @Ron I've repeatedly stated that I don't have any problem with a new manager being appointed, whether it's today, tomorrow, in the summer, or at the end of Wengers contract. I believe when the next guy has been identified plans will be put in place for it to happen. Apparently that belief makes me pro Wenger. Where the confusion arises is my support of whoever the current manager is. I'll admit to previous though Guv as I also supported Swindin, Wright, Mee, Neill, Howe, Burtenshaw, Graham, Houston x2, Rioch & Rice. I'll afford the next manager, whoever the f**k he is, the same dog like loyal support I always give the Arsenal manager. If this site becomes totally anti Arsenal then IMO it is no longer fit for purpose. The aggression against anyone who shows an inkling of support for the club worsens with each defeat. Sad but true!

  43. Tony Evans

    Feb 27, 2015, 8:36 #67606

    Westie - I am more angry with myself than anything or anyone else for being sucked in again after the City performance and allowing myself some hope that things were on the up. More fool me and it certainly will not happen again. If Monaco was a one off you could accept it as a blip, but that is simply not the case, it is in fact the latest in a long line of debacles stretching back for years. After each and every one of these inept showings nothing changes (which is the most damning indictment there is on Wenger) and I was daft to let myself think that we may have turned a corner. If we did it was straight in to a dead end! To continue the road analogy supporting Arsenal over the last 7 or 8 years or so has been like being stuck on an awful roundabout, and Wenger is clearly never going to find the right road to take to get off of it, and we will just continue to go round and round in circles until he goes or (please God) is eventually pushed.

  44. Chris

    Feb 27, 2015, 8:33 #67605

    Sorry Bard, you're coming across as a couple of the three monkeys there - Hear No Evil and See No Evil. You can keep saying no arguments have been made but that doesn't change the fact that they have- you don't have to accept them but to not accept that they have been made at all kind of weakens what you're saying. I understand the anti-Wenger arguments - in fact, I even agree with them sometimes, usually in the middle of a match like on Monday but in fact several times of the past decade. That's why I started looking into the club and finances a bit more, to try an understand what was going on a bit more, rather than just rail against it. I don't agree with it as a solution in an ideal world but when it's part of the over all change in society and football in general I kind of think it would be daft not to accept it on some levels. My honest opinion is that I was expecting more over the past two seasons, this season especially, than has been achieved with the team. And yes, Wenger has to ultimately take the 'blame' for that if you think there is some to be dished out. I don't actually think there is that much - the reason I was expecting more is because of the expectations levels that Wenger has instilled in me - I expected him to strongly challenge for the PL and do better in the CL, despite still not having the resources of his competitors, because of how good a manager he is, but he's still not underachieving based on rational analysis (obviously that could change by the end of the season). Has he 'let me down'? Well kind of but a rational analysis shows we aren't that far off. Yes, he hasn't coach the tendency of his team to tip the balance too far forward out of them but even on Monday we could easily have ended up out scoring Monaco, when you look back at it. I accept that's not to everyone's taste and even that yes, at the very highest level you need much better players than we've got to out-score teams. Taken in isolation Tuesday could be written off as a bad day at the office but of course it's not in isolation. I would say, though, that generally we've made a pretty good fist of the knock rounds of the CL the last few seasons, even though we've gone out to better teams than us. We nearly over-turned first leg deficits against Milan and Bayern and I know as far as your concerned nearly might as well be miles but that's not how I see it, rationally at least. But anyway, the reality is Wenger is getting on a bit and needs to be replaced. The question is, who could we get that will take things forward? People like Simeone and Klopp are all very well but before they were appointed by their current clubs, you wouldn't have predicted the success they've had necessarily. All changes carry an element of risk, so the question is when is that risk most mitigated and therefore when's the best time to change manager? Surely that's a question the club hierarchy are dealing with now and surely if they aren't, that's their fault not Wenger's.

  45. Charlie George Orwell

    Feb 27, 2015, 8:01 #67604

    Had a dream last night. The back page headline was: 'Arsenal Ecstacy As Wenger Delivers Champions League Title'. Unfortunately, the front page headline was:'Stephen Hawking Poorly After Falling Off A Ladder'.

  46. Daryn

    Feb 27, 2015, 7:59 #67603

    Just watch the invincible after that crap performance and there you have it wenger lets the players sort out the problems on the pitch that's great if you have the players like we had then but we don't so it's about time he started to bark orders from the side he has to go been wanting this for five years gave my season ticket up after twenty years didn't enjoy watching the same mistake week after week

  47. Bard

    Feb 27, 2015, 7:28 #67602

    Chris; good to read your thoughtful and incisive analysis. However calling Ron a boor is an unjustifiable assertion is my book. Ron is much more nuanced than that. He does get grumpy sometimes but most of his posts are about history or analysis of the game. You don't have to agree with him. In fact I would love to read counter posts but most of the pro Wenger posters can't really string an argument together so its difficult to get a debate going. Coleseybollix don't agree with the post but enjoyed reading it. At least it was an attempt at a debate. Tony Im sure you have the Web ed quaking in his boots with your empty threats. What this website lacks are proper coherent pro Wenger articles. Simon Rose give it a try once a season but thats about it. I would speculate its got nothing to do with bias but more the AKBS can't actually make a case for him. Their support is more like following a religious leader than analysis of a footballs manager.

  48. Trev

    Feb 27, 2015, 0:36 #67601

    Bloody hell @jeff wright - you were comparatively reasonable by day. Did you know jeffwright is an anagram of paranoid?

  49. Ron

    Feb 27, 2015, 0:04 #67600

    Mick S - the failing of the middle men to sit in behind the fill backs advancing has been a failing for yrs hasnt it. Clough used to sub his midfielder if he left the back door open when Anderson and Frank Clarke advanced up field.Sort of one mistake and yr out. He imbued his discipline by fear as did Fergie. Mourinho does and koeman seems to as well doesnt he. AW is ok saying they need to treated maturely to make them act maturely, but how many times have we heard it said that footballers like to be told what to do and be led by the nose? Many arent blessed with too much grey matter so it makes sense. Such as Clough liked an attarctive game played on the floor but never at the expense of clean sheets and shape. I often looked for our shape wheni used to go regularly but it was haphazard. Its hard to do it on TV and its still hard to find it. Its all ad lib stuff. It worked with better calibre players. I always thought the best teams he had in 01 to 04 more or less managed itself. Bergy Sol Adams and Vieira cd org most stuff as was needed. Lesser calibre calls for more drilling. Clough, Paaisley and our own GG drilled routinely until moves like a middle man filling in for a full back became second nature. This one facet has been bad for us since 2008. Utd used to score all the time just by playing Nani. Hed barely get a touch until Clichy attacked. Hed lose it often by a bad cross or poor in filed pass Utd get ball, looped to Nani, Clichy still up top, no middle man to pick up Nani cross to Rooney - goal. So often it was predictable. Latterly, teams used to get us on the right side, not so mush with Sagna but often with the lad whos now at West Ham.Basic coaching stuff that we teach 11- 14 yr olds yet not at AFC? The same applies when an attacking middle man ventures to wards the box. A CF should drop in behind him or the extra middle man does it. Not at AFC? Not doing it leaves the opponent often with the extra man for vital seconds. Its this stuff that leaves Wenger being attacked for his tactical deficiencies. Hes been his own worst enemy for yrs as hes got older by not allowing himself to have a strong Coach. Fergie at Utd was never without one.

  50. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:44 #67599

    Ron - How about you leave me to decide what I'll do, you rude arrogant boor. You can dish it out but you can't take it - classic signs of a weak-minded would-be (if he could) bully.

  51. Vinnie

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:32 #67598

    I think there wil always be blips ups and downs Maybe the issue here is there is not ups or downs just good Not great or bad But blind spots I. The team How long have we talked about one or 2 great players away from a title challenge usually a defensive midfielder or defence Still lacking that Never been a proper replacement views or known/Adams Wenger did tea form us but always favours a certain player So whe the george graham defence retired was never properly replaced But if we were bad it would be easy crap manager wenger is not and crap team we are not We are good but can be better that is our frustration

  52. Mick Skelding

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:24 #67597

    Spot on analysis. I would only add that around me we are all fed up of the same old mistakes again and again and again. WHy is it we play a game with only Coquelin, Mertesacker and Koscielny defending. All too often we had Gibbs and Bellerin bombing forward, no one in midfield covering and leaving us horribly exposed at the back. All the other teams see it and capitalise. WHen Coquelin got booked we were effectively down to two defenders. What a joke. Whether you criticise the standard of our centre backs or not I defy any team to keep a clean sheet with schoolboy tactics like that. The buck stops with the manager and it must be tackled now. Not at the end of the season as some suggest but now!

  53. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:23 #67596

    No er,Trev, I thought you was supposed to be at the pub? As I said you and your shipmate colesy are fooling no one with your attempted new double act.It's just the usual chicken picking arse licking lets all get behind Arsene guff that we all( yawn) are so familiar with from you two pussies backing up one another allthis name changing suggests that nyou pair are the paranoid schizos and not me... I guess though after your three wins in a row for Arsene post you are too embarrassed to appear in your usual guise . You always come unstuck when you do these sort of after wins gloating posts. Are you dumb or just over-optimistic chicken brained ,whatever you never learn do you. You couldn't make it up.

  54. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:20 #67595

    Pre match there are patterns of play determined by the manager and staff. Once the game starts the players are responsible for their actions. In the heat of the game the players make decisions that determine the fate of that particular result. Thee is a time when advice should be given but also their players need to work things out for themselves too, otherwise the reliance on side line talk is detrimental to their development. Not every manager is a stand up and shout type nor a sit down and watch type. Each to their own, not a right way, not a wrong way. If the players can't make the correct decision the its time to replace them with someone who can until they are ready to take no board what is asked of them. There is a fine line at the top level and it's is all about making the right decision. Mertesacker last night made a great interception at the start of the second half that put Alexis in and Giroud missed one of his sitters, however for the second goal he tried the same interception but was too late and we were done on the counter. Fine lines of decision making. So is that the managers fault? Hardly. Gibbs takes a throw in to The Ox who is buzzing having just scored and wats to get the equaliser but gets caught on the ball by three Monaco players and they break to score a disastrous third. A poor choice by Gibbs and the Ox. Is that the managers fault? Did he have time to jump and tell Gibbs to slow down, tell Mertesacker to get closer to Kos just in case that happened? No. The players had a brainstorm and got punished. They are internationals with loads of experience for the most part and should know better. The time to get up was after the goal by the Ox, telling the defence to be careful not to go too gung ho and settle for a 1-2 loss, with another 90 plus minutes to go. You cannot question the start of the game as the first ten minutes was good, yet suddenly the tempo dropped and allowed Monaco back into the match. They went out with the correct mind set yet didn't keep it up...who knows why that was. The atmosphere was rather subdued too in the crowd so maybe that set into the players too and they became too relaxed and over confident. Who knows? Hardly the managers fault. But the misses by Giroud were awful and at the start of the second half would have been the perfect way to get back into the game. He appears to have taken a majority of his chances quite well so far so can't see that as being the managers fault. Just an off night. Welbeck hit Theo while he was lying on the floor on the goal line. Fine lines again. That will do for now...so over to you Exeter.

  55. Vinnie

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:13 #67594

    It's true there are anti wenger and the club views on here but I tihink it is from fans who know we can do better Yes whe I started seeing the gunners we were mid table in 75 although provably the equiv of 5 to 10 quid to get in. What's changed is it is now a business model. I really respect wenger for all he has done for us and to be fair the issue we have is not just management it is our ownership (American) no particular affinity with english football but I am sure very interested in the monetary value of the club Also we miss a backbone of players of the ilk of Adams known parlour mixed with the talents from abroad we had in years 98 to 2004 We also miss a go getter like so yes having nearly 20 years in the champions league is quite a record but it is masking an issue with the club whereby in 9 years we have won 1 trophy not good enough for us..... All of these things have been covered on here and like everyone I will always be a gooner but if we do not aspire for more

  56. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:10 #67593

    west facing cannon, it's a lot better than TOF deserves.

  57. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 23:00 #67592

    John F, congrats, Quip of the day.

  58. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:42 #67591

    @jeff wright - paranoia and a fear of difference - all summed up in your last few posts. Nice!

  59. DJ

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:39 #67590

    Ron: That was the best post all day, not rude or condescending just brilliantly summing up modern day Arsenal. Hiccup: Wished I'd thought of the Swiss ramble injury time gag genius!

  60. west facing cannon

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:30 #67589

    Wouldn't it be great if the club came out with something along the lines of .... Mr Wenger, whilst we respect the successes that you achieved in the distant past ( incidentally off the back of a very talented inherited playing personnel ) we no longer feel that you have the required tactical awareness, hunger, ability or general SAVVY to take this club to the level that its magnificent supporters deserve. Or, roughly translated ... Arsene, Your management skills nowadays are more suited to coaching eight-year-olds and accepting a salary of £ 8 million a year really is taking liberties so please step down now.

  61. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:21 #67588

    Jim, we'd have to ask his mistress.

  62. Jim

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:16 #67587

    Be careful what you wish for!Yes Wenger has his faults he certainly isn't perfect and as an adulterer he will probably end up in 'the lake of fire'yet is there many who can do the job better,are we just mindless optimists when we say there are?

  63. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:12 #67586

    Or as an alternative to talking about stern stuff, rear ends and manhoods, Badarse, you could join in the debate both goonercolesyboy and I feel is missing from this side. What is your counter to the claim I have made?

  64. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:07 #67585

    Hi Westie - its fashionable to knock Morgan. He is an irritant really. The record you mention there is maybe right but using it suggests you think everybody wants top 1,2,3 each season? Most who want change now just want a team that genuinely competes and not one that just takes part. We ve not done it for yrs. For eg, half the attempt's at the CL and once winning it would be some thing to be proud of. The present tedium of being in it each season with the same predictable end isnt success by anybody's definition other than AFCs number crunchers. Being in the Europa Cup and giving it a real go now and again is better than this yr on yr charade that theyre selling the fans surely? That stat you quote is quite impressive and many Clubs wd like it i guess. Theres another stat i stumbled on just the other day that tells us that since league footie started we ve accumulated the 2nd highest number of points, just behind Liverpool and Utd are 3rd. That tells us that the Club has been pretty successful throughout its history and as such reminds us that we dont need to hang grimly onto one Coach once things go sterile, others can come in and succeed. Nobody doubts Arsene uses his best efforts and is as diligent as the next chap, but its pretty obvious now that his best efforts arent working in a footballing sense, though they do in the economic sense of course. Thats means AW employers by never apparently pressing him for more on the pitch are content and football achievement is secondary.This is the big divide between us all surely? Some like your good self celebrate the balance sheet and endorse the board room glee fest, while others want us to be a football team again, that's feared and respected for our play, not our wealth and financial health. I doubt theres one fan who wants change thinks or expects we ll win trophy after trophy and attract all of the creme of the players. What we re tired of is more of last night and then being told, 'it happens'or 'if such and such s shot hadnt ..... etc' or 'on another night it could have been ....'. Wengers been given that sort of rope for years now and he really needs to be hung up with it. Yr right, they wont sack him. That Board aren't interested in football, thats the tragedy of it all. In truth, Kroenke needs ousting just as much as Wenger does.Wenger isnt solely culpable for this sad inertia the Clubs fallen into.

  65. Tony pepe

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:05 #67584

    And jeff's comments just sums up nicely what I am trying to say. Down to you website editor.

  66. Gaz

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:01 #67583

    We all love Bob Wilson but his only argument to keep Wenger on seems to be because he's dedicated to his job! No ones ever denied this but that shouldn't be the only reason to keep him on...

  67. Badarse

    Feb 26, 2015, 22:00 #67582

    Found my route(r) to home and to post. Went to Guys today, hell getting to London Bridge-it kept falling down. Saw the nurse, she said she didn't have my records. Told her any 'blues' will do. Doctor said he couldn't help me, a 1-3 1st leg defeat in the KO stage is something I would just have to deal with. Said I was OK about that, I was made of sterner stuff, in fact am made very much like the rear end of a boat. I said I was concerned about the WOBs who feel their manhood is threatened by such a defeat. He said to just give them another objective, that I should offer an irritating post and they would have an instant target, in me! Custard pies at the ready...

  68. Bard

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:57 #67581

    Trev mate we are back with nuances. I can't believe it. What has Chris done to this site. You can have your own view of the Eds posts fine. My advice is don't read them and stick with splinters up his arseblog. As for nuances you're a bit late, nuances have been don't to death on the site. I have posted before that I love a nuance but I baulk at an unjustifiable assertion. There was nothing nuanced about last night abject, pathetic come to mind. Every report I have read has questioned whether Wenger really knows what he's doing.

  69. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:55 #67580

    Your 'hay day' Tony colesey' Ha ha love it! I always had you down for being a bit of an Ass braying away...he-haw ! You couldn't make it up .

  70. Th14afc

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:48 #67579

    Well what else can possibly be said about last nights debacle...terrible performance,another last 16 exit but every one of them hurts like the last.... Whatever happens though im a gunner til I die,up the gunners!

  71. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:46 #67578

    goonercolesyboy, if you feel you're missing out on debate on this site - as in proper debate, where one side makes a reasoned out point, then the other takes into account what's been said and makes a similarly reasoned out counter-point - then I'll have a debate with you. Where shall we start? Perhaps last night's performance? For me, it served as an exemplar of why Wenger has taken AFC as far as he can. In the big, high pressure matches, the 'let the players work it out for themselves' philosophy doesn't give the players the tools to succeed. This is why the record in such matches has been so poor for many seasons now. They need a lot more direction and in game management. What is your counter to this claim?

  72. Jimmy Gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:44 #67577

    @Tony - Sad to hear you are blaming people who comment on a website for the reason you are not buying the fanzine. Websites offer freedom of speech and this one is no different. They publish articles from both sides of the divide (when they get them), but its true that there are more commenters who are against the manager on this site than some others. So what? The fanzine is still great in my opinion and the latest issue is the best of the season.

  73. Know Man

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:38 #67576

    How long have I been saying Ozil is toilet? Now will you acknowledge and give me some credit. He is a passenger. We have too many weak players right through the spine, either keeper, Per, Ozil at number 10, Giroud. You won't win anything with these.

  74. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:36 #67575

    jw, Exeter, Naaah he doesn't have to.

  75. Tony pepe

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:35 #67574

    As soon as you show an inch of support for the arsenal. Many, many old, perished folk jump down on you like pummeling a mole hill into the ground. WEBSITE EDITOR. In my hay day, and I'm going back to the early 90's. I purchased the fanzine every home game the issue was available. The fanzine is brilliant.. The website is an embarrassment due to anti Arsenal, anti Wenger, anti Arsenal supporters, anti, anti anti. The words will fall on deaf ears and that will be your downfall as I walk past "get ya goona" sellers and many are following. Trust me.

  76. UTU

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:28 #67573

    A complete Fiasco and fans paid £ 90 plus to witness this nonsense. Kroneke and Wenger will keep counting the Cash. Move along nothing to see hear

  77. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:07 #67572

    Exeter 71116, maybe he's a Mummer.

  78. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 21:05 #67571

    Chris - Quite true too. Hes a man of may imperfections and contradictions. Think of it like this. i quite rate my Ford Kuga, its as good a motor as i can afford but im not going to claim its anywhere near as classy, good spec, efficient and fault free as my mates Merc 4 wheel. You really shd go take yr borefest posts elsewhere you silly little oaf.

  79. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 20:42 #67570

    Bard, and listening to his arse casts (not that I do very often once is enough)is even worse I still can't make out his accent a mixture of everything, the Sun was once described as all tits and bingo, over there it's all bollocks and arsecasts in any order.

  80. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 20:33 #67569

    Hey Colsey you and your shipmate are not fooling anyone Tuesday wednesday thursday or friday with your double act .Trev's not down the pub he's at KFC gobbling fries and chicken wings!P.

  81. Don froth

    Feb 26, 2015, 20:31 #67568

    Whatever happened to Mark Flatts? Flattsy boy as i believe he was known.

  82. Vinnie

    Feb 26, 2015, 20:30 #67567

    Struggling to think of a worse performance in such a key match. Ok maybe West Ham in 1980 cup final or Ipawich in 78 eh? Also I think it was the wrong team selection we needed the ox from the start but that's trivial really as there was so much wrong

  83. Hiccup

    Feb 26, 2015, 20:25 #67566

    The situation is all set up perfectly for wenger to come out of this smelling of roses. We know when there is nothing to play for and the shackles are off, arsenal can turn it on. Could be another heroic exit from the CL if we win in Monaco and go out on away goals. I still think our cup tie against Boro had an adverse effect on last nights result. That blasted FA Cup competition has a lot to answer for.

  84. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 26, 2015, 20:05 #67565

    jeff, you are the one with the flannel...boring to the nth degree. Exeter, there is no debate on this site.

  85. Crimewatch

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:52 #67564

    Westlower- Your opinion on whether Wenger should stay or go isn't irrelevant, as most conversation on this particular board relates to whether Wenger should stay or go. So what is your opinion please?

  86. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:40 #67563

    Avenell Rd, No doubt there's plenty of that going on over in AKB central command today also, only i'm sure it's the other way round and more in the form of chanting with tears been shed, speaking off has any one seen the caretaker?

  87. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:39 #67562

    Well would you Adam and Eve it now Colseybollox pops up off Arseblogger to support his old pal 'Trev' with his usual sanctimonious sermon ! As for 'Trev' well we all know that he is no new boy on here but just the same old flannel. You couldn't make it up .

  88. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:34 #67561

    goonercolesyboy, Trev was invited several times to give his views and therefore debate. He declined, preferring instead to lambast the editor for his views. And you'll have to point me to where you've ever attempted to even have a debate. All I've seen are insults being hurled around. But I suspect I'm 'brick and wall' hoping you'll comprehend this.

  89. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:29 #67560

    @goonercolesyboy thank you for your sanity. I'm off to the pub now. Up the Gunners!

  90. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:21 #67559

    Trev, sorry you have joined this ant Arsenal site hoping for a balanced debate. As you have quickly discovered that doesn't exist on here. As Westlower has said, maybe a change of manager is in order, but whoever is in charge you support your team. Many on here fail to understand that point. Brick and wall.

  91. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:19 #67558

    As Roy Castle sang: 'Dedication is all you need'. If only that were true. Is that all Uncle Bob had to say in defence of Arsene? Not a lot really, is it. Anything to say about the tactics, the in game management? Have you?

  92. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:16 #67557

    If he is so dedicated to doing his job then why did he demand a big pay rise to stay? Why did he twice meet with senor Perez to hear what he had to offer him.? Why did Wenger have that secret affair in Paris with that younger women when he was supposed to have been on the job for AFC ? Why did he shoot off to Brazil and hang about there for weeks doing TV work and playing volley ball on the beach when we he had problems at AFC that needed sorting such as a replacement for Tommy Vermin .? Why if he is dedicated to his job did others have to sign Welbeck while he was in Italy larking about again .? He even admitted that had he been at home in bed that this signing would not have happened! All of this hardly suggests am an dedicated to AFC. Wenger is onmly dedicated to himself he even betrayed his wife,so please give the sob stories a swerve ! Old Bob is a proper gunner but he did say that he was biased in his views and others such as Frank who are not under the Svengali grip of Ivan the liar offer a different view on Arsene's management.Let's face it anywhere else and he would have been shown the exit door long ago.

  93. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:13 #67556

    I think it's a shame that the editor of an Arsenal fanzine comes across as unable to take joy out of an Arsenal win and that losing fires him up so much. It seems that, for him, getting Wenger out is more important than Arsenal winning. Also, it's like only two opinions are allowed on here: Wenger in, or Wenger out. I think that particular argument is reductive and there should be room for nuance. I'm sorry if my thinking isn't up to your black/white this/that good/bad standard.

  94. Westlower

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:02 #67555

    Since Arsenal were elected to the old 1st division in 1919/20 up until 1995/96 they finished in the top 3 on 17 occasions. Subtracting the World War 2 years that's a total of 69 years. That works out we never finished top 3 for 75% of the time. Who seriously believes the board will sack the present manager when we are currently in 3rd position in PL? Interesting to read Bob Wilson's comments ridiculing Piers Morgan. "I would like to say this about Piers Morgan...He claims to be an Arsenal fan, but if you're a supporter of a club, you have to be through thick, thin, laughter, smiles & tears. He has never been a proper fan. He's an incredibly pompous individual & he has no understanding of what it is to be the manager of a football club. I can only tell you this about Arsene, and I am biased to a degree, but I'm not stupidly biased. You will not find any manager ever, more dedicated to doing his job than Arsene."

  95. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 19:01 #67554

    Quite right jabs, poor old Arsene, all these underperforming, uncaring players that have been foisted upon him. After 18 years, the construction of the squad has no more to do with him than on field performance. Like you say, the only thing he could do is make subs a little earlier. The rest is out of his hands. But though he has so little power at AFC, it is absolutely essential we keep hold of him at all costs!

  96. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Feb 26, 2015, 18:57 #67553

    Martin Keweon is just so up Wengers backside it's down right embarrassing!!! He never ever criticises Wenger. Look I understand he's being loyal and all that as Wenger prolonged he's career, but come on man you can't ignore the obvious. If someone keeps committing the same errors over and over again, regardless of your loyalties you have to speak up and say something. That us why Wenger lives yes men like Bould. Tony Adams etc would not tolerate being yes men that is why they did not come back to arsenal. Vieira is another one. They would say something and next you would hear they have been sacked by the dictator in chief Loool.

  97. Hiccup

    Feb 26, 2015, 18:51 #67552

    jags, looks like the Starship Enterprise transporter room has mistakenly materialized you in the wrong location. Arseblog is over that a way.

  98. Roy

    Feb 26, 2015, 18:45 #67551

    Having had 24 hours to digest last nights debacle, I still can't find any mitigating factors. You can't defend the indefensible ( though it would help if we defended at all ). Ok, so it would probably have been all over in the quarter final anyway, but I'm afraid that performance was unacceptable on so many levels. It's all well and good for Wenger to use phrases such as "defensive suicide" but the buck stops firmly with him. And anyway, there are no excuses for the third goal after the Ox had given us a lifeline except tactical ineptitude. Not going to go over ground that's already been covered here, suffice to say that I won't be attending again until this regime sees fit to do the right thing. I fear that may take some time. I could weep.

  99. jags

    Feb 26, 2015, 18:34 #67550

    wait a moment . ok Selling RVP to manu inexcusable but last night if Giroud had taken the three chances for the easiest hattrick ever on offer in professional football, Arsenal win the game 4-1 or 4-2 . Mertesaker made the key mistake when he committed at the half way line for the second goal .Its not Wengers coaching its top paid internationals,world cup winners ,failing to perform ,dont blame the manager for that .Wneger wants deperately to win, its a pity his players dont care as much . My only criticism of Wenger is his reluctance to change the team at half time when its not going well .be careful of what you wish for you Wenger doubters !

  100. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 18:07 #67549

    mark from aylesbury, 71032 or it would probably mean because the little pets are so used to getting French kissed from TOF they'd shyte themselves.

  101. Hiccup

    Feb 26, 2015, 18:01 #67548

    Some possible positive news on the bbc website. Arsenal have lodged a complaint with UEFA and want last nights game replayed. Apparently, the Slovakian match officials plane to London was delayed by an hour, and they were forced to travel economy class. They didn't arrive in London until teatime on Tuesday which meant they only had 24 hours to get over their jet lag. It's also transpired that last nights 4th official was on refereeing duty at the weekend in a Slovakian Cup game that spilt over in to extra time. Arsenal have deemed that due to such exertions, the officials weren't in a fit state to officiate, as they were suffering from fatigue. I think we have a good chance of getting the game replayed. Anyone else notice the 4th official put 4 minutes injury time up when (according to the Swiss Rambler) there should have only been 3 minutes. The referee was clearly unable to perform, as he failed to send Coquelin off. Have to agree, referees are determining who win games these days, and arsenals defeat once again lays at the officials feet.

  102. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 18:00 #67547

    Trev ,I have read arseblogger's articles for years, on and off,he started off all bullish with his offerings but as others have pointed out the old sot now duffs his cap to the AFC hierarchy and just looks to blame results ,such as last night's one, on factors other than Wenger's poor management. Self interest being more important to him now than offering a realistic view on all things AFC. You are have still failed though to offer us your own views on Arsene and instead resort to attacking the editor of this site for not following Arseblogger in his slavish attitude toward Arsene and the Silent Stan ( yawn) regime.

  103. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:47 #67546

    Trev, talk some more about that then. Why is it such a problem for you that the 'top man' has taken a stance? This isn't the BBC. What would you have him do in the name of 'balance': "We lost 3-1 and were terrible... on the other hand, it could've been 3-0 or 4-1". Doesn't really work, does it? In fact, why don't you write an article on 'balance' for the Online Gooner? It would be published, and then you would have your 'balance'!

  104. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:45 #67545

    Mike Collins, don't do that, that's exactly what the AKB's and wenger luvvies want and would love to see, proper fans who want change pissing off and silenced, no stay and keep saying it like it is, remember the saying, we were here before him (and indeed a lot of his followers) and will be etc, etc, SKG, and keep on returning to them mate, still as relevant now as they ever were, and will continue to be as long as this excuse for a manager bumbles about embarrassing us.

  105. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:35 #67543

    @jeff wright I refer you to my most recent post with regard to the reasons I originally posted. With regard to Arseblog, I don't think you've read him enough if you think he's not critical. There's too much binary thinking on here. I still don't think you get 'balanced' although I appreciate your skill with a thesaurus!

  106. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:32 #67542

    Ron- Love it that you're now claiming you used to "argue strongly for Wenger until 2011" whereas not so long ago you were claiming you ere the first amongst your mates to spot his flaws more than ten years ago (unless there's another 'Ron' with a very similar 'voice' -maybe I should trawl through the archives to dig out the quotes for you). And you accuse me of flannel! Long since given up being surprised by your hypocrisy / b.s. though.

  107. Crimewatch

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:31 #67541

    Westlower- Your opinion on whether Wenger should stay or go isn't irrelevant, as most conversation on this particular board relates to whether Wenger should stay or go. So what is your opinion?

  108. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:21 #67540

    Ooooh. Westie - Always respect you mate the way you front up on here defending Wenger. There's increasingly so little material to enable you to do so. Its as EG says though, you are one of the posters who are somehow so emotionally attached to either him and/or his remaining at the Club that it stops you from seeing what his tenure has become and whats its doing to the Club. Its common mate. There are so many of the supporters, both on here and those who do the games who are so in awe of his supposed erudition and obvious elan and sophistication, that him not being there is almost unthinkable despite there being little in the way of hard reasons to keep him in the job. Its the longevity of his role that's done it. Its natural and we ve all been there at some stage im guessing. Wenger knows how people like you feel too i would suggest. He often comments in such a way that suggests the Club/fans owe him for his loyalty! Its s a measure of his arrogance as AFC have been better for him than vica versa i venture. Believe it or not i used to argue strongly for him until 2011. Footballs a passionate game still so in my view you stating that AFCs state doesn't create in you feelings one way or another vis its Coach is a little disingenuous i would suggest. As you say, s h i t happens mate. Its been happening under Wengers watch for nigh on 10 years. Other Coach's failings wont shelter Wenger from the reality. He presides over an insipid and timid squad. Last night was just one more reminder, as if one was needed.Level up mate. Gilding the lily doesn't suit you.Yr better than that. Leave the flannel to the Chris s of this board.

  109. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:16 #67539

    Blimey we had Brian mysteriously appearing like a neutered gorilla out of the mist after the heroic 5-0 win over Villa now we have Trev ! I do Trev understand what a balanced view is , fair, equitable, just, impartial, even-handed. I just can't see how this applies to Arseblogger's ones though. Sea Lions can balance balls on their noses while waddling around but if their keeper slings a bucket of fish into their pen then they will ditch the balls and squabble with the other mammals for the food. I don't see how Arseblogs tunnel-vision, lets not upset the AFC hierarchy comments are 'a balanced view ' as you claim them to be. I'm still waiting to see what your own views on Arsene are not what you think of Arseblogers ones . You are obviously not him in disguise because he has his own inimitable mannerisms ,that seem to be largely originated by how much he had to drink the night before. So er,Trev, why not give us YOUR OWN VIEWS on Arsene. Why not start with something simple such as,should he go or should he stay.

  110. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:15 #67538

    Who says I have to? I came on here to talk about the editor of The Gooner. I think it a shame that such a great publication is tarnished by the top bloke being so biased. That is my point.

  111. Jon

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:04 #67536

    I have been a supporter of Wenger, but what I can't understand is why he rarely ever gets off his seat to sort the team's shape out, make sure a specific player tracks back as he's supposed to etc. He only ever gets up to moan about a tackle or attempt to zip up his ridiculous coat. At the end of the match he bemoaned the performance, so why not attempt to change it mid-match as he could see the tactics weren't working. Its his stubbornness that he considers his tactics are spot-on regardless of actual performance. He's paid one of the top salaries for a manager in Europe, yet I doubt that Mourinho would have sat idly watching his European dream slowly unfurl before his eyes. We can all accept a defeat if the team's done their best, but that was dreadful from 10mins onwards. As for Bould, what exactly is his job????? The defence was shocking, yet he too just sits and stares and gawps and gapes. Are they all clueless????

  112. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 17:04 #67535

    Trev, when are you going to actually tell us what you do say?

  113. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:53 #67534

    @jeff wright you said "Just saying everything will be fine if we all get behind him..." I didn't say this and I don't say everything is right. Neither does Arseblog. It seems you don't understand the concept of 'balanced'.

  114. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:47 #67533

    "My thinking has very little to do with supporting or opposing the manager." Westlower - come on! Your entire raison d'etre on here is about bigging up and defending Wenger. And you don't have to 'bang on about sacking him' to able to admit, just for once, that maybe he was culpable. Instead we get 'there is nothing he could do' and 'sh*t happens' and 'other teams lose games' and so on. Any criticism of him is described by you as an emotional inability to handle defeat. We know why you say it, you know why you say it - you simply hope it'll silence that criticism as you hope folk make a simpleminded equation of 'Have a pop at Wenger = emotional instability'. How gullible do you think we are? Who do you think you're kidding?

  115. Westlower

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:31 #67532

    @Tony Evans, You are angrier than me because your expectations of an Arsenal win were greater than mine. I hoped for a win and thought a draw was more likely but a defeat less so. My thinking has very little to do with supporting or opposing the manager. Just because I have a different opinion about the outcome of a game doesn't mean I wont welcome a change of manager when he's appointed. My opinion if he should stay or go is irrelevant but I don't see the point of banging on about sacking him every time we lose, any more than we should keep him when we win. I'm a semi-professional punter (my other income is from pensions) and I have to adopt a less emotional way of dealing with losing days. It doesn't mean I care any more or less than you do.

  116. Arsene FC supporter

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:27 #67531

    So much of a "match report". Diego Simone wanting to come is at least for now a fantasy. Apart from Simone, Ancelotti, Mourinho, and Guardiola, give me another manager and I can give you a robust argument why Wenger is better. If Klopp can motivate his players so well, why are they in a relegation battle? Likewise for Martinez. Benitez messed up Liverpool. Mancini can't get Man City to qualify for knockout in UCL. Rodgers' signings rarely pay off. I am not saying Wenger is better than them, but merely that it is debatable.

  117. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:18 #67530

    Trev , here is what you posted : "Arseblog is balanced and reasonable. He's not afraid to point out what's wrong and doesn't gloss over or minimise what's right." This is just your own view and not a fact ,right>? So then why not give us YOUR OWN VIEWS on Arsene >? We don't need you to advise us what we should think of Arseblogs ones.

  118. Mike Preston

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:14 #67529

    That's it. I'm done. For years now, my head has told me that Kevin and the other AMGs were right, but I kept hoping deep down that Arsene would somehow manage to get it right and have the chance to leave on a high note. That will never happen. There is not one thing about last night that can be said in his defence.

  119. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:04 #67528

    chris dee, good shout, TOF has no shame it's been proved over and over, it's always someone else's fault as far as he and his followers are concerned. Your right another FAC or top four will not make the slightest bit of difference it will change nothing.

  120. DJ

    Feb 26, 2015, 16:01 #67527

    Bard – Exactly Arseblog, once being funny and off the wall, now having been welcomed into the establishment is careful not to ruffle too many feathers to keep his ticket on the gravy train. It highlight’s one of the many problems with todays Arsenal. Too many so called supporter/action groups have been given little titbits by the club and are now to scared to create many waves. I thought our esteemed editor may follow suit with his book publishing exploits but at least he says it as he sees it!

  121. Gaz

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:58 #67526

    I'm just waiting for Trev to point us in the direction of 'completeloons .com'.....or as its better know as 'Untold Arsenal'...

  122. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:56 #67525

    I can't believe you lot are arguing AGAINST balance and reason! @jeff wright - try reading what I've actually written and then ask me something else that is based on fact.

  123. David

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:52 #67524

    Westie - on the contrary, the easy game in the last 16 CL would appear to be a game against Arsenal.

  124. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:51 #67523

    Trev - you don't need to be biased to pick holes in that sorry performance. Let's hear what you think instead of hiding behind Arseblog.

  125. Bard

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:48 #67522

    Trev I presume that comment about arseblog was a joke. Reading his blog is like watching paint dry. He's a fence sitter. He's rarely said anything of interest in all the time Ive been reading it. Try Le Grove for some real comment. I don't think Kev has an agenda other than wanting the best for Arsenal. if you see things differently write an article and the Ed will post it so we can all comment.

  126. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:46 #67521

    Trev, I am referring to your support for Arseblog and the ludicrous claims for him being reasonable and right in the views that he expresses that you claim for his musings .These are always excuses for the sort of managerial failings of Wenger that we saw again last night.So can you inform us then what it is that you yourself find wrong with Arsene's management? Just saying everything will be fine if we all get behind him is not really having any opinion at all.

  127. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:38 #67520

    Keown - loves to revel in his image as the tough guy. Hes made the image since his retirement rather more florid than it ever was as a player. He was a decent man marker and that's as far as it went with him. Was he really 'hard'? Not really, there were a few players who he kept well clear of, Stu Pearce for one who nearly eat him one day v Forest and the brown stuff was on its way down Keowns leg. As a pundit, he likes to cultivate the image of the Oxford thinking mans pundit. More accurately as i hear him, he sits astride whichever fence he needs to sit on and bulls h i t s and arse licks accordingly, Wengers being one of them. Hes probably got half a mind on some coaching role there.

  128. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:37 #67519

    Big changes is needed alright Kev, and not just freshening up a complete clear out is needed, my God how long have we been saying that now (and still others can't see it)the place stinks from top to bottom and the stinks getting worse by the week it really is, and it all emanates from the office of an old past manager who's dead and hasn't the wit to stiffen, and that's where the cleansing has to start getting rid of the stink that is in there.

  129. DJ

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:27 #67518

    reboot: Thank You. I listened to Amy and Martin on the way home and couldn't beleive the postive spin they tried unsuccessfully to put on it. Amy even tried to make Arsene seem a genius because he predicted the result. All aboard the gravy train!

  130. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:25 #67517

    It's his livelihood because he writes really well and is not ludicrously biased either way. @jeff wright you say "He is like you though good at dreaming up excuses." You know absolutely nothing about me so maybe you should drop your speculative assumptions?

  131. reboot

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:14 #67516

    Trev, Arseblog never rocks the boat too much because that website is his lively hood and if he upset the Arsenal establishment too much he would probably find certain doors and perks closed to him. More extreme examples are Amy Lawrence and Martin Keown. The drivel they came out with on 606 was pathetic. Wenger absolved of blame and give him time he will sort it out blah de blah. Kevin is more truthful and honest than the pack of them If you dont like the truth dont read this website.

  132. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:14 #67515

    Trev , can you point out when Arseblog was ever right about anything? Being over optimistic about future results doesn't mean he is reasonable or right . He is like you though good at dreaming up excuses. I will predict that we will not qualify for the next round in the Champions League. Of course I could be wrong because it's just my opinion based on us having to win by 3 clear goals. We rarely keep clean sheets away in Europe so the chances are that we will need more than 3 goals.Unlikely that so last night was a disaster and trying to put some guff and spin on things does not change this. We might win in Monaco but it will just be another pyrrhic victory to add to the long list of them that Wenger has run up over donkeys years of ineptitude in Europe ,where he is now incidentally looked on as being a laughing stock. Anyway better sides are still in the comp than Monaco so Wenger should just concentrate now on the league and FAC rather than a mission impossible for him in trying to win the European Cup . Surely even uber optimist Arseblog must know that is not going to happen >?

  133. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:13 #67514

    Jamerson - what a prat you are. Knee jerk reactions indeed - this sort of performance has been rife for years now. Are you really an Arsenal fan because if so you have a strange way of showing it.

  134. bigreddave

    Feb 26, 2015, 15:08 #67513

    Great piece, roll on the usual collapse starting with being dumped out of the FA cup at united, followed by some dodgy league form before a late run to the coveted 4th place trophy. Wenger out.

  135. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:40 #67512

    No doubt yet another blow to his overinflated ego (you'd have thought it would have been brought back down to size by now after all the humiliations) especially in front of his country men, (he's probably as big an embarrassment over there as he is here) and with FFP, something he called for and backed and supports smacking him on the arse, his country men had the smug grin last night (as it was wiped of his face) how they must have been tittering, TOF didn't wait to find out he wasn't long disappearing down the tunnel mumbling to himself as he went, and didn't have the same problem undoing the zip from his sleeping bag as he does zipping it up one movement and it was off and he was gone, it was the quickest he had moved all night.

  136. Rocky RIP

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:38 #67511

    @Kevin - in the other 15 seasons, how many two legged victories can you recall when it really mattered? - in the interests of fairness, did we not knock out (holders) AC Milan in 2008? The first English side to win at the San Siro? Other than that, it's very hard to defend last night's performance. I share the exasperation. The home crowd certainly didn't help lift the team out of its complacent drifting mindset... Like a deluded sunbather drifting on a lilo, seemingly oblivious to the Niagara falls which it is nearing ever closer to.

  137. AH

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:29 #67510

    Why do we have a technical area near our dugout?? It never gets used Arsene & Bouldy just sit there watching all hell break loose in front of them, no leader on the pitch to shout and pull people in the right direction SHAMBLES. Monaco were well organised but were helped by us playing into there hands,now if punters in the stands and at home can see that happening why can't the highly paid manager. For a real change to take effect at the club season ticket holders & all the other kind of members need to stop going, thus an empty bowl or near empty then Stan might begin to worry about his income !!

  138. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:23 #67509

    If Mr Frankstone is so obsessed with Chelsea, perhaps he knows what to do. Wenger has many many faults, but Mourinho isnt that perfect you know, look at a few recent results. Swiss Ramble has debunked the higher than Chelsea wage bill for good measure. That said, the performance was pathetic, rivals will, as usual, be laughing, but the way that some Gooners, in the depths of self flagellation resort to this unbridled Chelsea worship is even more amusing than the teams performances. The next thing, some of these fans will start chanting in the unpleasant way some Chelsea fans do. By all means, wallow in the depths of despair, but should leave Chelsea out of it.

  139. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:22 #67508

    Mark - i suppose in fairness to Wenger, i cant recall Graeme Souey getting up much off his bench and 'putting things right'as a Coach. As for Henry, as a Captain his idea of a constructive approach was to pick on and bollock the younger players to hell and back, and glare dementedly if they didnt pass to him. That rabble sitting in those studios dressed up like p-x Dr's clerks are there to pick up the pay cheque that Sky are stupid enough to pay them while they hide from the coal face of the game. Best pay no heed to the pilgrims mate.

  140. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:21 #67507

    Arseblog is balanced and reasonable. He's not afraid to point out what's wrong and doesn't gloss over or minimise what's right.

  141. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:17 #67506

    Trev? Do you know the editor? I've met him and he's actually a very personable chap. He just feels like 95% of the rest of us, fed up with Groundhog Day. Who could be balanced and reasonable after that shower last night? Not like it's a one off is it.

  142. Avenell Road

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:14 #67505

    "Wenger Out, my lord. Wenger Out. Wenger Out, my lord. Wenger Out. Wenger Out, my Lord. Wenger Out. Oh Lord, Wenger Out". (not just singing, actually praying)

  143. Red Member

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:10 #67504

    the only way to get rid of Wenger is to stop going to games. If you do you are supporting him as much as you are supporting the team. Season ticket holders - give them up if you really care about and want to save the club

  144. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:07 #67503

    Kevin - Thanks, as I said I'm only basing it on Swiss Ramble for figures up to year ending in 2014 so others may know better. Selective Reading - The italics are new, presumably a clarification in response to the error I made. Exeter - whilst the performance was very poor, it's at least a small crumb of comfort that we could easily have scored 4 ourselves - on another day Giroud would have had at least one and Welbeck would more often find the net rather than Walcotts arse.

  145. Trev

    Feb 26, 2015, 14:00 #67502

    I think it would be great to have a fanzine editor who could write with such enthusiasm when we've actually won. At the moment he's pushing his agenda to the extent that Arsenal are secondary. Then he backs up his views with quotes from mates who agree with him. Kevin Whitcher seems to have a sense of entitlement that is so overblown I'd be stunned if it didn't permeate into other parts of his life. Please can we have an editor who is able to be a little more balanced? Anyone who reads Arseblog knows it is possible to be disappointed and reasonable.

  146. Don froth

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:58 #67501

    Give Dyche,Lennon or Boothroyd a go.....a british manager for once with plenty of bunce in charge of a half reasonable club....why do we always want a foreign manager!

  147. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:50 #67500

    I know it's been said before but did we really expect anything else? of course his usual followers did and still do, you have to laugh. Shambles, leaderless, rudderless, embarrassment, this excuse for a manager just hasn't a clue, and his pigmies aren't far behind. Did you ever hear as many excuses trip of the tongue from one man in your life, (he must have been making them up as he sat there rocking back and forth he did f**k all else) Spereet wasn't there, weren't up to it mentalee, (well where is all this mental spirit you keep telling us about)defence wasn't right, cart horse had an off day, can't understand it, etc, well why not your supposed to be the f*****g manager (and I use that term very very lightly indeed) your an embarrassment not fit for purporse go now old man.

  148. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:46 #67499

    EG - ....... patience mate, he s just checking 'Swiss Ramble' to see if the paradox that you posit is verifiable. Its all in the 'evidence' you see and his reply must be beyond reasonable doubt or at least correct on the balance of probabilities (depending which Court hes in today) lest he perjure himself.

  149. Gareth

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:40 #67498

    I've read on here that theres no chance of a revolt against Wenger at home games because its full of tourists etc but what about the away support which IMO is amongst the most vocal in the country in the majority of the time. Why isn't more being done there? The support Wenger has even amongst the away lot is still plentiful otherwise more protests would take place. Liverpool away last year the prime example.... I was arguing with fans in the concourse that reckon its not wenger, his hands are tied by the board, just as Liverpool smashed in a 4th after 20 minutes. When will it end? The day it does I will have one massive party. Even if we have to put up with 5 seasons of dross whilst sorting the mess out I will be so up for it not one negative post will come from me. I'm just so fed up with Wenger and his never changing ways.

  150. WENGER MUST GO ASAP( MARCUS)

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:38 #67497

    Well, well!!! We can't even beat Monaco at home!!!! Sorry but Monaco our not a top team!! That is a fact. They our 11 points off the league one leaders. They were missing 5 players who would normally start. It's an embarrassment. Yet Wenger still has he's loyal supporters. WAKE UP!!! WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR YOU NUMPTIES??? TO REALISE THAT WENGER HAS TO GO??? We need a new direction.

  151. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:36 #67496

    We're all still overreacting. Looking at it from a broader, nuanced context, these regular humiliations borne out of an inability/refusal to prepare for individual opposition or use in game management are irrelevant, as we always get 4th. So it's a red herring to judge the manager on these things, as he's still getting 4th from the 4th most resources and therefore doing a fine job. To illustrate, take the example of Monaco. At the end of the season, it is likely that Arsenal will finish higher in their league than Monaco will in theirs. So using that broad, nuanced context, we will be able to see that Arsenal did, after all, 'beat' Monaco. Is that right, Chris?

  152. preston

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:34 #67495

    My season ticket went back in 2012 but went last night. Not hurrying back. Also noted what a lot of new younger faces were there and how many old ones were not . Dreadful atmosphere, clueless team with same deficiencies. Do people not even care enough to boo at the end.

  153. Peter Wain

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:33 #67494

    the chances of us winning at OT are zero. We need change and change now new owner board and manager. Once those are right we can get the right players in. This was a shameful display against a reserve side and there are no excuses for it.

  154. ATID

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:33 #67493

    "And what struck me last night was the lack of passion at Arsenal. In the stands, in the manager, and in the players" The silence in the stadium towards the end of the game was quite extraordinary. How did it all come to this? I think we know. For God's sake AW stop acting like King Lear and give it up.

  155. ed enough...

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:33 #67492

    Surely no one is surprised by this. From minute 1 it was plain to see from everyone except the manager, that the tactics were woefully wrong. All through the middle, no width, no pace. Another big match has passed them by and the fans are left frustrated again. Nothing will change until Wenger goes. Simples.

  156. Rob

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:32 #67491

    Great report Kev. Pity Wenger could not be so explicit with the players. We might see some consistency with them. I was convinced we'd win last night - so were the players ! - and that we'd draw in Monaco and be through to the Q/Fs. Then anything is possible. But for the reasons you have so clearly stated - we're out, again. Wenger has never won a UEFA competition and frankly he never will. Yet he's had more opportunities than EVERY OTHER Arsenal Manager put together. A frightening fact. And yet those 'duds' Mee and Graham would receive little respect and no credit from Wenger's loopy cult followers. Searching for consolations, I'm left to hope that Real Bayern or best of all Athletico, can ensure Chelski don't win this a second time. The latter really would rub a raw red wound.

  157. Mark T

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:21 #67490

    Graham Souness summed it up when he said "It's unbelievable that the management didn't get up off the bench during the whole game and put things right." And Thierry was spot on too when he said "At Barcelona, Pep would tell me go wide on the line. If I didn't he would tell me again and then he would tell me if I didn't do that I could join him on the bench...." Gutless, clueless, shameful. A total and utter disgrace. One of many. The inly truly shocking thing was that I managed to sell my ticket on Ticket Exchange for £80. I won't be returning until that fraud is out of the club. A Gooner till I die.

  158. GoonerRon

    Feb 26, 2015, 13:06 #67489

    A really encouraging 10 minutes followed by 80 minutes of largely terrible football, followed by 30 seconds of slight relief followed by 3 minutes of us blowing our own legs off with a bazooka. So utterly frustrated - I felt we were on a good run of form (albeit with slightly shaky performances of late) and could have taken the game to them. Wenger and the players have to take a long hard look at themselves as it was clear last night we very quickly ran out of answers.

  159. radfordkennedy

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:54 #67488

    I've said it before and I've no reason to change my mind,we will achieve nothing with that effing coward Mertersacker in defence,he's an embarrassment not only to us, but also himself.And why oh why must that imbecile in charge wait until it's a lost cause before making changes, Ozil should of been hooked after 30 minutes as well as Welbeck.Yet again this amounts to gross incompetence and negligence and would be a sacking in any other business.My wife has treated me and my pal to 2 tickets against the toffees as a birthday present..block 101 as well,my favourite seats...if it wasn't for the fact they were a present I wouldn't bother,it's only the prospect of a good giggle and a drink in the Horatio for a few hours before and after the game that I'm still going..incidently can anybody else hear Benny Hills 'yakkety sax' theme tune in their heads when the ball goes into our penalty area!!.

  160. Bard

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:50 #67487

    Rob succinctly put mate, my thoughts exactly. Imagine if Barca had put 10 past us. perfectly possible on last nights performance. At least we only have to wait 3 weeks for this years CL to be over. Savage but accurate report on the bbc sports website. Now this wage bill debate does that include sandwiches Chris? my info is that they are free at Chelsea but not at Arsenal. if you factor that in over a year it works out that we are actually spending a shedload on consumables and that bumps up the bill.

  161. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:49 #67486

    Colesyboy - and how many more 'frustrating nights' is it going to take before you effing well wake up!

  162. Website Editor

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:44 #67485

    @Selective Reading - In fairness to Chris, I only just italicised the email from Daniel because it was apparent some people did not realise what followed my intro was that the rest of the article was Daniel's email. So to be clear, his words are in italics. @Chris - Daniel has responded as follows - "I’m pretty certain that Chelsea have re-assessed their wage bill to conform with FFP and that since the start of this season Arsenal's is now higher."

  163. Hi Berry

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:44 #67484

    Westlower:So...'the bench can't do anything...(about the rush of blood to heads when chasing the game)...as it's down to the individual's self-discipline'? Can't see how that sits with the oft quoted 'I believe this squad has great mental strength'. Another sound-bite that's trotted out as and when we scrape a last minute win/draw but curiously absent in the face of another capitulation. We should all be thanking our lucky stars as anyone who saw the Barcalona masterclass on Tuesday can plainly see we are not even in the same galaxy as them and this exit means the bloodbath that would ensue if drawn against them next will be averted.

  164. Paulo75

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:42 #67483

    Out of the league race by October and the usual clueless, inept performance in the CL Knockout stages - absolutely shellshocked that Arsenal could produce a performance like that on such a big occasion. Ozil wasn't what was required in the squad at the time he was signed. He doesn't justify a place in the team with his half arsed, weak displays but Wenger is under pressure to play him due to the price tag. Mertesacker and Giroud's attempts at carrying out their function for the team last night were way short of amateur let alone professional standards. No more money from me this year Arsenal. Absolutely disgusted with you.

  165. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:39 #67482

    That's the spirit Bard lad, we are actually over achieving taking into account the net spend, the straw men and the nuances you know and if we gave the sqaud a pay rise, titles and CL would evidently flow forth. I think our resident scientist is George Osborne's Son. Swiss Ramble is the way forward it seems ref - the Chris Ramble.

  166. Selective Reading

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:37 #67481

    Chris - I know you like to pick up on the smallest things in order to deflect the legitimate criticisms, but perhaps you should also pay more attention to what you're actually reading and you wouldn't end up looking such a numpty. The quote regarding wages is taken from an email, not a text, which Kevin has made clear in the preliminary paragraph. The fact all the text which follows is in italics also makes it obvious it's all from the same communication. I wouldn't usually pull you up on something so minor, but you started it.

  167. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:37 #67480

    Westie - give it up mate. Who cares about other teams f**k ups and whether or not we are hot favourites for the second leg. There is simply no way to put a positive spin on that sort of performance. Never mind about the goals we didn't score it's more about the awful goals we let in. I can't believe you are trying to blame the players for their gung-ho approach - that can be coached out of them and would be by a manager that is able and willing to learn from past mistakes. I really don't know how you can even begin to defend Wenger after that because that is what are trying to do and it just doesn't wash mate.

  168. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:36 #67479

    Thanks Westlower for a sense of perspective on a frustrating night. It is only half time so let's wait until the return leg. The Cheltenham festival is next week, bring it on.

  169. gn23

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:35 #67478

    Made the decision to stop going to games last year. You know, I haven't missed it...a soulless bowl surrounded by akb's and the like, singing "there's only one Arsene Wenger. " Prices for a grade a game absolutely criminal! Most of all the guys I know who used to attend don't go anymore...priced out. Different breed of fan these days, and I'm only in my thirties! Waiting for "mental strength" quote come weekend....

  170. Website Editor

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:34 #67477

    @Chris - I have emailed Daniel Frankstone for confirmation, but he knows his stuff. My assumption is that Chelsea offloaded some high earners after the last posted figures, whereas Arsenal have upped their outgoings due to raised income, and that this is based on the current year. Daniel has access to this kind of info which most do not. If Daniel states he has this wrong, I will amend the piece.

  171. David

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:33 #67476

    Top 4 finishes without top 2 finishes; CL qualification without progressing beyond 2nd round = stagnation. C'mon Arsene, bear your shame and fall on your sword.

  172. Spectrum

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:32 #67475

    As good as out of the Champions League, a potentially fatal away tie against Manchester United in the F.A.Cup, and in the league - we're 8 points further behind than we were at this stage last season. So we obviously have a lot harder task to qualify for that competition we love to get knocked out of. All's good at Arsenal eh, Chris ?

  173. Mike Collins

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:29 #67474

    OK, I said I wouldn't post again till AW goes but I've just been to the official site and I'm liking what I see. "Per - We Must Be Brave In Monaco: It's easy to write us off now but it's just half-time. A lot of things can happen over there and we will try." Now that's the spirit, rather than all the whinging and carping on this site. I knew that Kev Whitcher years ago, mate; used to sell dodgy magazines over a garden wall. Troublemaker, free-thinker, opinionated. C'mon, everyone, join me on the idyllic Official Club Site.

  174. gn23

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:24 #67473

    Useless, pathetic, shambolic. But not surprised one bit. Needs a complete change from top to bottom. Although we know that won't happen. More years of this torture. I've defended giroud at times but the guy is patently not good enough. Mert has been useless all season, and as for ozil.. Agree with comments regarding bould too...what exactly is his role? Other than to sit there motion less.

  175. Red Member

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:21 #67472

    JM - you have been conned I'm afraid. Had the same experience a couple of years ago and vowed never again to go to a category A match. It is bad enough spending £40 on the current Arsenal team. Anyone who is stupid enough to spend £90 when you know the team is crap deserves all they get

  176. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:21 #67471

    Monaco are just a modest French league one outfit and had half their first team out last night, but were still too good for our pampered over-paid prima donnas with our front line costing over £100m only able to score one goal . What any of this though has to do with our wage bill and Chelsea's only Chris knows, surely we should be looking at Southampton's and asking why it is that we are closer to them in the league than we are to Chelsea ? The lack of money for Arsene excuse was blown away years ago by Diamond Danny .Wenger shrewdly uses various excuses that are aired in the media by vaguely alluding to them as being true in interviews.He did that with the lack of financial backing by the board one that was doing the rounds years back .Fiszman however was not having that placed at his door and came out publicly to refute these allegations citing facts and figures and stating that Wenger could have money to buy players with if he asked for it. Wenger had his own ideas though and did the same thing that had failed and got him fired at Monaco he went on another youth project and taking a punt on himself improving the abilities of bargain basement type players such as Almunia. A glance at the GK situation at AFC these days shows that he has not entirely abandoned this malarkey. The signing of Sanago and bringing back Coq , giving new contracts to clapped out players such as Arteta and Flim Flam , is more evidence of inept management .I don't even want to mention the millions squandered on Diaby ! Getting back to the European shambles on paper we may have a 10% chance of still qualifying to get beat in the next round by a proper top club,but in reality we are unlikely to go to Monaco and win 3-0 so Wenger's embarrassing losing run will go on and on... things could get worse domestically as well before the season is done. A tough run of league fixtures with Liverpool,Chelsea and United in them and the FAC cup tie at Old Trafford to come amid it all and we know how much our little soldiers love going there.

  177. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:18 #67470

    Chris - I'm glad to hear it. Yes Kevin had no need to mention the Chelsea wage comparison - the one that was more to the point was the comparison to the Monaco wage bill that he made.

  178. John F

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:18 #67469

    Wenger's post match comments sounded more like he was a spectator rather then the man who could influence proceedings. I can imagine Wenger and Bouldie at the match."I see we got the good seats again Bouldie.If they do not watch out Arsenal are going to get caught out just like the Utd game.Bloody hell what's the Manager doing make some changes before it is too late". "You are the manager Arsene".Don't be stupid Bouldie that man in middle with the whistle is. When are the stewards going to do something about the man adjacent to us he keeps going on the pitch and standing in that box shouting,every game here someone does that the stewards are bloody useless. I am going to talk to that official over there about this".OMG thats the third goal in where's my sack the manager banner".It's got stuck in your zip again Arsene" sighs Bouldie.

  179. Bard aka the Black Knight

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:17 #67468

    Too gloomy by half Kev. it was but a flesh wound. Following dear old Chris, I actually didnt think it was too bad if you factor in the known unknowns e.g. they had half a team out injured and were playing away from home. All in all it could have been worse. Also if we had beaten them and gone through on last nights evidence Barca et all would have run up a cricket score. So although it was a spankng it wasn't a humiliation. And we are still on course for 4th place. Wots not to like about that !!! How am i doing Chris, i love these other factors

  180. John Abrehart

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:15 #67467

    Lee Dixon has spoken many times of the hours of the defending drill that GG enforced on the famous back four, even to the extent of tying some string between them to ensure that they moved in unison and did not stray out of position I believe? Steve Bould was part of the 'famous four'. I saw him last night in his beanie hat as if stuck to his seat. Where was any animation from him when our naive and crass defending let in two very preventative goals? Surely his instinct would have created some sort of reaction or is he so tongue tied by Wenger that he dare not say anything? In which case why is he there? The group stages of this competition are so meaningless, as the same two stronger teams always get through. The competition may as well be limited to 16 teams with a maximum of two per country. That would take some of the money out of the game and let the real supporters enjoy lower prices to see us scrap in the three domestic competitions and hope that one day we will be good enough to properly and deservedly qualify for the big prize. IT WON'T HAPPEN THOUGH!!

  181. JM - LONDON

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:15 #67466

    This time I'm ******* furious. What a load of ****e, £180 + ridiculous booking fee for me & my Dad to sit up in the gods to watch this, probably the worst I've seen in 40 years. Doubtless now we'll get the 'time we all stick together' crap from the club. And another thing, the conspiracy that is the Olivier Giroud self appreciation society constantly whipped up by the club and how he just gets better and better, all nonsense again, he's useless and follows in a line of Chamaks, Ghervinios etc. He should have given his cup winners medal back last season as he was crap then as well and he wouldn't get a look in at chelski, citeh or even manure. And as for Ozil, classic panic buy, just get rid and write the money off. Fa cup next and then we're screwed again and scrape 4th place. Rant over from a disgusted JM. The only bonus from last night is that I was so annoyed, we left before the final,whistle and managed to get home at a half decent time!.

  182. Gaz

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:11 #67465

    @Chris: So, after one of the most apalling european home performances ever your only real problem is whether we might/might not have a higher wage bill than chelsea? With 'fans' like you and Jamerson 'supporting' the Club I'm mightly glad I've lost interest...

  183. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:03 #67464

    Chris, rather than keep focusing on that single point, how about telling us which were the really good points and which you have a problem with, and why?

  184. Retain the FA Cup a la 2003

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:03 #67463

    Crap defending and result. Two legged results when it really mattered in the European Cup under Wenger. Beating holders AC Milan 2-0 after 0-0 at home in 2008, Porto 6-2 on aggregate in 2010, Kev!!

  185. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 12:02 #67462

    Tony - Completely agree, which is why I was supriosed to see Kevin bring it up. If you had watched the game with me last night, you would have heard me shouting about "f**king embarrassment" and "useless c*nts" but I've got over that now and haven't got much to add about the game itself to what's already been written. AMG - If that was a quote from Daniel, it was a bloody long text!

  186. Rob

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:57 #67461

    Arsenal in the last 16 of the CL is like watching a loved one dying in hospital, the sooner it is over the better it is for all concenrned

  187. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:55 #67460

    I do commend everyone to look at the front of the sporting section of the Daily Telegraph this morning and the leading article inside, "Clueless, Pathetic, Shambolic". Quite aside from the obvious and eternal stupidity of playing with 10 players in the opponent's half at all times, Wenger's use of substitutes still beggars belief. Giroud was having an evening where he couldn't hit the broad end of a cathedral and SHOULD HAVE BEEN WITHDRAWN for his own sanity. Wenger doesn't care about player's being injured mentally or physically. He cares only about being right and smug when he faces the press. Rosicky and Chamberlain should always come on BEFORE Walcott because they drive the team on. The basic things that our forbears taught us well are ignored and no lesson is so obvious that Wenger is incapable of learning from it. Over and Over and Over again.

  188. Spectrum

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:54 #67459

    Wow ! What a knockout article, Kevin Whitcher ! You succinctly summed up so much of what's wrong with this club AND of course, this "manager". I use inverted commas because he's not a proper manager anymore, if he ever was one. This is the sort of dismal performance we've strived and fought for for so long during the qualifying rounds ? Why Wenger incessantly drums into us the need to make that top four holy grail ? This is the fifth successive elimination from the Champions League last-16 stage. Overall, he's had sixteen attempts and come up empty sixteen times. A 100% failure record from the aptly named specialist IN failure. Honestly, what is the point in battling so hard if it's all so futile in the end ? We all know that Wenger and the teams built in his image cannot and will not, ever actually WIN the thing. We, and him are simply not good enough mentally, tactically and technically. ( With the possible exception of Sanchez ). Ozil ? He's proving more and more that he's not a player for the important matches. He goes missing too often, and generally displays a disinterested approach too often. No wonder Real Madrid wanted to offload him. Giroud isn't the standard required of this level. Mertesacker is too slow and unreliable. Welbeck tries hard, but is ineffectual. As with Ozil, we can see why United wanted to be rid of him. And Wenger ? What more needs to be said ? He should have gone six years ago. Instead we offer him a contract extension !!!! Unbelievable. So two more years of frustration and empty assurances from him to come. Because he's too arrogant and pigheaded to do the honourable thing and resign. A.K.B.'s won't mind though. They're already looking forward to NEXT year's Champions League treadmill. God help us. "In Arsene we rust."

  189. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:49 #67458

    Exeter - That's not really what I'm saying, is it? As I pointed out in the first post, Kevin has used this match report to regurgitate all the WOB arguments that have been made here over the past week or so. But in so doing, he has gone out of his way to perpetuate what appears, on the evidence available to me (Swiss Ramble) to be a myth. As I stated, he also made some very good points but unfortunately they were diluted by adding some stuff in which was surprising to see from the Editor himself. Anyway, I'll wait and see whether Kevin can correct Swiss Ramble or not.

  190. Highbury Boy

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:49 #67457

    An accurate summary as always Kev. Like others I could go on about lack of width,full backs who bomb forward with no cover,individual performances etc but I find the most disappointing aspect is that watching from the stands I have (even though not spent half a day in football) much more sense of where the danger is coming from than the players. With their first goal for example I was screaming to close him down but none of the Arsenal players thought he might have a shot from there. There is no feeling in the players that the goal is sacred. Thou shalt not pass is not an ethic. Wenger inherited Adams & Co with the GG philosophy which ran through to Campbell and stopped. I used to think that if Wenger failed in the Board's target of Top 4 (with the CL place) he might have to leave but now that the new PL/Sky/BT deal dwarfs CL money it certainly means that an absence for a couple of seasons is unlikely to make a dent in the cash flow and unlikely to effect the brand. Also I think the older supporters in the ground who have sometimes been part of the movement to get rid of Billy Wright and other managers want change more than the younger ones many of whom have only known one Arsenal manager and are frightened of change,repeating the mantra "Be careful what you wish for".

  191. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:48 #67456

    Good stuff Mark. Petitioning Parliament got Corries Deirdre Barlow out of prison yonks ago didn't it mate, so shifting Wenger should be a breeze. Lets petition at least for the banning of groundhogs? Good shout maybe on Simeone mate, but half the problem in that Club, its always seemed to me is the choirboy mentality of the players Wenger has favoured for so long. Can you see any of them ever expressing dissent to any degree? I cant.

  192. Westlower

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:47 #67455

    There is no such thing as an easy game in the ECL knockout stages. It was unlikely that Arsenal would run riot over Monaco. No other team has been able to score goals against them this season so why was it going to happen last night? The hope for us in the 2nd leg is that home teams defending a 2 goal lead often get caught betwixt & between on their tactics. An early Arsenal goal would relight the contest. The bookies still have us as hot favourites to win the 2nd leg. As much as anything else the players need to curb the rush of blood when chasing the game. The bench cant do that for them as it's down to individuals self discipline. The much vaunted Simeone lost in Leverkusen. Maureen lost 2-4 at home to Bradford with a 2 goal lead, couldn't beat Burnley at home after leading. It's head scratching at times but on any given day sh*t happens! Giroud would ordinarily have put some of his chances away. Maybe playing Chambers & Monreal at full back would have improved us defensively but as Monaco were predicted to park the bus, two attacking full backs were preferred instead. Given the circumstance of playing at home it was hardly the wrong decision. For future games I hope to see the Ox replace Welbeck & Gabriel replace BFG. The OX is far more likely to whip in crosses for Giroud than Welbeck. For me Giroud remains a better CF than Welbeck. Gabriel would add more bite & pace into central defence. Theo remains an enigma but until he's fully match fit the jury is still out. Ozil needs players flowing around him making runs, he's virtually redundant if the team is static. Get Szczesny back in goal but above all else we need to break the bank to buy a strong dynamic DM. Come on over Schneiderlin, Pogba or Bender, please!

  193. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:46 #67454

    Chris - for Christ's sake man that sort of performance has nothing to with wage bills - what the hell is wrong with you. Wenger and his acolytes have simply run out of excuses - surely even you can see that! If you are any sort of supporter you wouldn't be focusing on how our wage bill compares with Chelsea, having witnessed last nights debacle.

  194. AMG

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:45 #67453

    Chris, I think Kevin was quoting Daniel Frankstone, so your beef is with fact checking laziness, not Kevin's. Also, it's a fairly common perception, based on a certain amount of fact. Figures vary depending on how you assess them and what you choose to include/exclude - Maybe Arsenal spend more on their tea ladies.... either way, who cares!

  195. mark from aylesbury

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:45 #67452

    Ron - I am going to have to disagree with you here. Diego Simeone could just stare at them very hard then start snapping the chair spindles he is sitting on like twigs. The translator would then say Mr Simeone, he very unhappy! Result - Sudden levels of application never seen before and players shouting at each other

  196. Red Member

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:43 #67451

    Wenger's Arsenal remind me of when I was at school - could always cope with the easy coursework but then I always flopped in the main exams

  197. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:40 #67450

    Don't think we should worry too much because as Chris highlights, what really matters here is whether Arsenal's wage bill is currently a bit higher than Chelsea's or a bit lower. If it's the latter, then all the other factors - the regular humiliations and embarrassments, the lack of match prep, a manager who has quite evidently hit the glass ceiling - pale into insignificance and Wenger should obviously go on and on and on.

  198. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:38 #67449

    Ha ha, nothing imaginary about it Ronnie me little sugar dumpling. Just interested to get to the bottom of Kevin's last statement- I know you're not interested in 'facts' but I am.... If you could be bothered you could check it out yourself - admittedly I haven't gone to a primary source but Swiss Ramble is, after all, a football finance professional and is usually reliable.

  199. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:37 #67448

    To be honest Kev, a language problem with any new Coach wouldn't in my view be suitable for AFC right now, translator or not. I think at the very least, the lines of communication cant be blurred for a new guy working with these players, whos he s going to be lumbered with for quite some time until new charges can be brought in. The message from a new Coach will need to be clear and direct to shake this lot out of their Wenger induced stupor thats been ****ded in them for so long, too long.If there is some thing in these players, hitherto latent, the message is going to need to be absorbed pretty directly and unequivocally. They're going to have to be re educated in a whole new way. Translators pass a message on 2nd hand and it wont facilitate that however efficient. I d be surprised if it was the case that many of the players privately didnt crave a new approach and new broom.

  200. Bob Matthews

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:35 #67447

    Mike Collins..... 50 years and the same sentiments as you.The thing is i cannot bring myself to hate Wenger,i still default back to some of the greatest times and players we have witnessed during his tenure.I feel sadness rather than anger.It is like watching a once great but now past it actor forever fluffing his lines and entering the stage when he should be exiting.PLEASE PLEASE LEAVE

  201. mark from aylesbury

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:32 #67446

    There is a deep malaise at the club, we still have oddities like Chris arguing over wage bills when we see a team stripped of its top stars playing a tactical (let me say this once more) Tactical sound game against us and we implode. Money did not cause the collapse last night it was inept management. He has virtually admitted it by attacking the players for being naive and not mentally ready. Hello! Is that not Mr Wengers role?!? Perhaps we should start looking at online petitions to the board. I am technically useless but if anyone can kick one off and can optimise it through facebook etc I will sign it. Hey get a 100,000 signatures on their an send it to parliament as well!

  202. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:32 #67445

    Why should we as supporters bother to care when the clubs hierarchy clearly don't? As you say, Kevin, this latest in a long, long line of shambolic results will change nothing - and that is what is so depressing.

  203. Kerryman Gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:29 #67444

    Too slow. Too weak. Too small. But most of all totally outsmarted. Wenger needs to do the decent thing. But he is stubborn and will refuse to go. And Kroenke will not sack him. Two more seasons of this will be very hard to take.

  204. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:27 #67443

    Just checked back. According to Swiss Ramble's Chelsea article on 12 Jan, Chelsea's most recent wage bill (year ending in 2014) was 193, Arsenal's was 166. So if he did make a mistake (and I'd be surprised) he hasn't corrected it yet.... Would appreciate some clarification from the Editor on his bald assertion to the contrary.

  205. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:26 #67442

    I still return to the key problems with this team, apart from a lack of tactical coaching and no worthy leadership on the field we lack quality throughout the spine of team. The team has no discipline when not in possession of the ball and the last few minutes of this game were ridiculous.

  206. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:24 #67441

    .... and right on cue, here he is. The rigorous professional scientist citing yet more imaginary empirical evidence.

  207. Chris

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:16 #67440

    "BTW – our wage bill is higher than Chelsea’s." So Kevin, did Swiss Ramble post the wrong figures i a recent article? I'm genuinely curious, because whilst I haven't checked back to see if there's been a correction, the article showed the opposite. As for your report, I gave it a 1 star because although you make some very good points, over all it's buried amongst a load of stuff that could have been written by any of the WOBs on this site before yesterdays match.

  208. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:14 #67439

    People can write acres about the latest humiliation but when will anything change? Only when CL qualification is missed. As for the game, Monaco were organised, soaked up pressure and hit hard on the break. A great European away performance, congratulations to them.

  209. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:11 #67438

    Wenger was again exposed for the clueless cnt that he is .The claim that when Keystone Kop Kos is in the side we are better defensively again exposed for the myth that it is. 50 goals against Prem rubbish sides big tattooed Olly again shown up for the second rate buffoon that he really is. Wenger's time was up years ago but as I have said before he unbelievably has been kept in his job by greedy shareholders and a group of the least knowledgeable football supporters in the game,take a bow the dimwitted AKB ! You couldn't make it up.

  210. chris dee

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:05 #67437

    Clucking Bell!How many times are gonna be subjected to humiliation in big games?How many times are we see the same frigging scenario of teams breaking away and scoring against a defence that has no organisation or defensive nous?How many times are we gonna be out thought and outfought physically?How naffing arrogant to underestimate Monaco by a team that has done f all in 10 years in the Champions League. How shameful and cowardly of Arsene to blame the players on yet another pitiful naive display.For gods sake man,you buy,train,instruct all of them,it's down to you! Nothing but nothing but another FA Cup win and top four will wash away last night's misery.And even if that happens it will still be time for a change. Just one thing out of a multitude of crap.We have needed a top class goalkeeper for as long as we have been a shambles in Europe and what have we had for the last ten years?

  211. JackL

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:04 #67436

    I say this every few weeks........Arsenal results.....win (against a poor side)...win (against a poor side) ......win (against a poor side)...crowd begin singing "there only one Arsene Wenger"...win (against a poor side)....lose (against a good side)....and repeat the cycle. Same for the past 5-6 years. We should have won the title several times in recent years, we have had the players but it's all down to AW's tactical naivity. Take Saturday, leading 20 v Palace, bring on Gibbs and Gabriel and still concede a goal and almost another. How many times has AW brought on defenders to hold a lead and we've still conceded? Surely it we had brought on Theo on Saturday there would have been more chance of the ball being at the other end, and when that's the case Palace wouldn't be in position to score! Please Mr Wenger, we thank you for what you have done, but your time is now up, please give consideration to us supporters rather than to your salary.

  212. Joe S.

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:03 #67435

    Here I sit. I want to write something but have nothing to say. Having read the previous blog on this sight and read the vitriol of frustrated supporters it has all become academic.I think my passion and desire for change spent itself out somewhere around the end of the Van Persie era.Letting him leave while not finding real replacements was a cop out which no amount of white wash could have disguised. There was no ambition or desire to take on the contenders. Today its just a sad pitiful wind down which just seems to run on and on. Why do we bother? Why does it still mean something? The likes of Wegner,Gazadis and Kroenke will never understand what it means to be a fan. Ahbramovic does.

  213. Red Member

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:02 #67434

    fast losing interest in this team and football in general

  214. DJ

    Feb 26, 2015, 11:00 #67433

    The funny thing is some fans call it a knee jerk reaction after one game yet this has been going on for years. Driving home last night listening to people who make money out of Arsenal (Amy Lawrence, Martin Keown and a satisfied shareholder)they are all happy for Arsene to stay. As Kevin says the only way change will occur is if he crowd revolts but the Emirates is full of tourists, middle aged and old people. Young supporters with fire in their belly have been priced out hence the soulless atmosphere and the resignation that we can't do anything about it! I thought no one would protect the manager after that but there were plenty saying 'be careful what you wish for!' Well I wish Arsenal cared more about the fans than the shareholders!

  215. AMG

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:57 #67432

    I'm afraid I switched off when Wenger signed on the dotted line again in the summer, then failed to sign Fabregas because of his bruised ego. Results like this are a step closer toward the inevitable death of Wenger's managerial career, I welcome them, frankly - Rip the plaster off fast and have it done with, or do it slowly and painfully with performances like Stoke, Spurs and Monaco the hairs catching on the adhesive. Come on Everton, put us one step closer to recovery and a bright new future!

  216. Croker

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:57 #67431

    How many times, season after season, have we lamented a loss through a failure to set up the Team properly? This is unarguably a serial pattern of failure which would hasten a P45 for most managers. Ours has one of Arsenal's best ever defenders at his side and numerous others to call in to support him. Keown helped coach the likes of Senderos, Ebouet and Flamini to a Champions League final and failing to draw on this sort of available expertise is negligence. I'm very sad indeed to see this season by season decline in Le Boss' powers but he has never had it so good in terms of the financial and playing resource yet we still get outplayedby teams up and down the leagues. There's still a second leg to come and the reast of the domestic season but I sincerely hopes Le Boss retires gracefully at the end of the season. It was particularly galling to sit through last nights debacle with Monaco and then to catch up with The Invincibles documentary. I'd like to always thank Wenger for that season, trophies anf glorious football but he risks all those memories being tarnished by too many more seasons of gross underperformance.

  217. tippytappyhappyclappy

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:56 #67430

    Wow! Straight talking from the editor, cannot disagree with a single word. What a busted flush he is, how sad he is too narcissistic to get good regular coaching support to balance his weak areas. He will always be a genius talent spotter and nurtuturer, but we fold like a pack of cards under any sort of pressure and that is now in our DNA til he goes. "He fiddles while Rome burns"

  218. Mike Collins

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:54 #67429

    You've argued the case well, Kevin, as ever but concede that the impetus for change isn't there, so we've got nowhere. This will be my last post to The Gooner until AW is removed or has the integrity to resign in the face of his undeniable and bottomless incompetence. The club I've supported for more than 50 years is pretty well dead anyway (like the sepulchral stadium) so I guess it really doesn't mean so much now. Bring on the man who will resurrect Arsenal FC!

  219. John Evans

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:52 #67428

    Wenger was sacked after two years of under achieving at Monaco yet has been allowed 10 years and counting of under achieving at Arsenal. The only reason for this is that you now get paid very well for under achieving every year as 4th is a trophy in the director's eyes. # Overpaid for under achieving

  220. TJ

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:50 #67427

    After some dogmatic claims about Wenger being doing as well as he could be expected this is yet another in a long line of evidences for that being utter BS. As you said, Kev, a thriftier Monaco, missing 4-5 major players, still dominated the match and annihilated us. Not just that, look at how all the English clubs are getting whooped time and again in Europe the last few years- spending doesn't equal quality, guys! Torres and Carrol for £85m or Michu for £3m, for example... We could have done so much more the last few years with a proper manager in this weak league, and look at the only good English club, this year's Chelsea team, paying roughly the same in wages, but we have only Alexis, a player Wenger bought rather than developed, who would be good enough for their team. The same problems that characterise Wenger's regime persist: lack of strategy/tactics, lack of motivation, lack of transfer activity to address the deficiencies in the squad, too open and attacking in the play, not enough variety of players etc. the list goes on and on.

  221. Wardy

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:48 #67426

    Does anyone seriously believe this team has a chance of a major trophy, last nights shambles has been repeated previously and will continue ..... complacency from our owner, a manager passed his best and an imbalanced, pampered & overpaid squad that are under no pressure to perform ..... why else would would we see that shambles last night and did the players look bothered ? (aside one or two) ....... nothing will change until Kroenke leaves and we get an owner with ambitions above a profit ...... Thanks Arsene but time for a change and the sooner the better ...... i'm sick of the embarrassing performances

  222. Ron

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:45 #67425

    To be honest Kev its justice done for Monaco as a result of the slap in the face for all those who wrote them off when the draw was made as cannon fodder. Its should be the end of Wenger now, but we all know it wont be. Keeping him on cements Arsenals place as a small time, small thinking, gutless Club. Its a disgrace to a wonderful Clubs proud history.

  223. jumpers for goalposts

    Feb 26, 2015, 10:41 #67424

    Every season, every bloody season it's the same rubbish from February onwards. As soon as the pressure matches arrive, our squad go missing. Wenger is NOT a top manager, nor is he a top coach and he cannot prepare teams for big matches. So how much longer are we going to put up with this over priced rubbish ? Surely the time has come for us to organise ourselves and force Wenger out . . . . .