Investing in the ‘Youth Team’

There is a generation of fans that cannot really recall Arsenal as title-contenders



Investing in the ‘Youth Team’

Vieira – A fleeting memory from primary school days?


During my usual weekend perusal of the BBC’s text commentary of the matches, I recently came across some comments about the lack of atmosphere in the Emirates. During the Everton match following the Monaco disaster, Sky Sports too picked up on this, panning with a kind of melancholic glee to the hoards of empty seats and commenting that fans ‘seem to be voting with their feet’. Of course, this is hardly groundbreaking news; we are talking about the birthplace of the wonderful ‘Is there a fire drill?’ chant after all. But, with grounds such as Selhurst Park (post-Pardew in particular), and even Sh*te Heart Lane being lauded as full-on passion pits, I feel that there is a simple explanation as to why the Emirates is less cauldron of hate and more salad bowl of indifference.

Born and bundled quickly into an Arsenal babygrow, I am an avid Gooner, dragged by my long-serving father to the Emirates and a handful of away games (including Old Trafford and the Etihad), and even to Highbury when I was too young to understand more than we wanted the team in red to win. At nineteen years old, my Arsenal is solely that under Arsene, and as it’s difficult to really be interested and understand aged below ten, the FA Cup last year was the first major trophy I saw us win. It’s this that makes me urge the need for change, and drives my opinion that it’s time for Wenger to step aside.

For the older generation like my dad, there is no doubt in mind that Arsenal are a great and glorious club, and it’s easy to cite the ‘glory days’ of the Invincibles or the 1989 ‘it’s up for grabs now!’ title to justify this. But think of it from my perspective. The Arsenal I know and follow have, and as far as I remember always have been battling for fourth place, not titles. I can’t remember not having an inevitable sense of defeat before the big games, and, (though this is less of an issue in recent years with the introduction of Ozil and Alexis) have always been frustrated by Arsenal’s incessant lack of transfer action. I am too young to remember the likes of Bergkamp and Vieira, but I do remember watching Fabregas, Nasri and van Persie leave with a sense of foreboding.

Arsenal need to snap out of this ten year lull, and start pushing to be a title-contending, powerhouse force of English football again, for the sake of my generation who can’t remember a time when they were. Otherwise, we run the risk of the ‘glory days’ simply fading from the memory of too many, and Arsenal’s legacy will become not one of glory but one of a decent enough club, but not to be taken too seriously. Give us something to shout about Arsenal, and we will. And I’m not talking about a nervy 2-1 win at QPR.


NEW! Subscribe to our weekly Gooner Fanzine newsletter for all the latest news, views, and videos from the intelligent voice of Arsenal supporters since 1987.

Please note that we will not share your email address with any 3rd parties.


Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

167
comments

  1. Bard

    Mar 09, 2015, 10:43 #68283

    Some cracking posts on here. I guess humour and tragedy are soulmates as my great great great grandfather used to write about. We havent beaten Manu for nearly a decade at their place but apparently we are evens at least according to Oliver Holt. I will reiterate that I think we will lose because we are team of bottlers against the big sides not because Untd are better than us. With luck though we will have a couple of nailed on pens denied to us and the AKBs will be happy with that.

  2. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 09, 2015, 10:05 #68282

    "Well done Ron for breaking the impasse" says Westlower. Then opens it up again with a quote from some Daily Mail hack. Guess he hoped the sage words of Oliver Holt would shut the WOBs up once and for all. "In the last 5 months Arsenal have taken great strides forward" What have I missed??? The Cheltenham anecdote was much better, more of that, Westlower.

  3. Badarse

    Mar 09, 2015, 9:27 #68281

    Hi Cornish. Charlie is really only interested in football and is an oppositional type if pushed, (wonder where he gets that from?), so he is encouraged in many things but usually only takes a sideways swipe at them. His mini-achievements are legendary, truly! He went to archery classes and began hitting a 2o yard target consistently then the master of the class said he felt he might be better suited to a left-handed bow. He again hit the targets, speedily moved to 30 yards then 40 yards targets. After a few weeks he announced that it was boring and had had enough. His last three shafts all sank into the gold, he put the bow down and has never picked one up again-perhaps never will. As a child I would have gone through fire for his opportunities, but life is different now.

  4. Badarse

    Mar 09, 2015, 8:56 #68280

    Good Moaning chaps. What interesting people some are on here, and what interesting and full lives they've lead. westlower and his Charlton connection-I remember the story 24601, and that '58 programme. Ron and his exploits, his history, games, and coaching. jj and his travails and travels stateside, the 'Magic Bus' man-so interesting. maguiresbridge-or the 'mag', as he should be affectionately called, with his wellington boot collection. Then MARCUS who for the first eight years of his life was locked in a box, and spent his informative years screaming to get out. Our dear jeff, who has a life's work sewing up all the holes in his string vest collection. Then Bard, the Dark Lord, spending daylight hours in his red and white coffin, equipped with the 'Go Fast' stripes along the side, who patrols his estate under cover of darkness. To cover the running costs he now gives 'Midnight Howl at the Moon', seminars in the grounds. Hiccup, never ventured beyond Railway Cuttings, East Cheam, but a font of understated wisdom, delivered in a wicked and lacerating style. Then we have goonercolesyboy-his house in a constant state of disrepair, resembling the battlefield at el alamein, due to his angry moments dealing with the WOBs. 'Ah, deep joy, deep joy! Begging belief, and sidling with the mindstorm in all the grey pockets of resistance, and falloping with a this and a that, somewhatly like penguins with the ebonyish and ivoristory.'(quiet Professor). Big game looms gentlemen-a time for harmony.

  5. Westlower

    Mar 09, 2015, 8:37 #68279

    The bookies are finding it hard to split the sides in tonight's FA Cup tie. Some quote both at 10/11 to qualify for the semi-finals. As far as my bet is concerned I think this one falls into the what's the worst thing that can happen category. The Racing Post are going all out for an Arsenal victory & recommend a 2 points bet at 2/1. On Saturday a panel of 5 'experts' previewed the game with one going for a draw, while the other 4 predicted a win for Arsenal. We're overdue to lay this particular bogey to rest. That's it from me until the weekend as Cheltenham beckons. Be lucky. COYG!

  6. Oliver Holt

    Mar 08, 2015, 22:36 #68278

    Arsene Wenger out? Don't make me laugh... Even if they lose their grip on the FA Cup at Manchester United, Arsenal fans should be careful what they wish for Many Arsenal fans fear for the future of the club under Arsene Wenger Wenger will come under fierce scrutiny once more when Arsenal face Manchester United in the FA Cup on Monday Lose and people will say that their season is over. Lose and the ‘Wenger Out’ bandwagon will move up another gear Maybe they should be thinking about slamming the brakes on it instead Because in the last five months, Arsenal have taken great strides forward.SO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 08, 2015, 21:47 #68277

    Bard, apologies for the lapse in discipline, but if OGL can forgive indiscretions, and there was no ladies, fags, or bongs involved i'm sure so can you, i promise to hit the gym and sauna this week as that phone call we're both waiting on to manage Arsenal isn't far away.

  8. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 21:02 #68276

    MG - Oddly enough i spoke to Parlour a few times 7-8 yrs back at The Emirates. i think he was doing radio at the time? As you say, decent lad. Always got time for all who want to chat to him and hes up for a laugh isnt he. Seems a genuine chap i thought. Good player he was. Another of the type we ve needed but never had since. WESTIE - she was only being sociable and friendly mate im sure. Im sure some body stepped up into the breech (or maybe her breeches) and helped her out mate!

  9. Westlower

    Mar 08, 2015, 20:52 #68275

    Ray Parlour is a great story teller & loves his racing, both horses & dogs, top bloke. What an eventful week coming up; Monmore Puppy Derby tomorrow afternoon, OT in the evening, Cheltenham festival Tues - Friday. Arsenal v West Ham at the weekend. If anyone hasn't been to Cheltenham put it on your bucket list of things to do. You don't have to be into horse racing to enjoy it as it's the best social occasion ever devised by man. Imagine being with 30,000+ Alan Brazil's & 30,000 women. 90% are legless come the last race. One year our little group were staggering out to meet our taxi when a pretty young Irish girl screamed at the top of her voice "would somebody come and f*ck me." I've never seen drunken people form an orderly queue so quickly in my life. What a great sporting country we live in. Enjoy!

  10. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 20:51 #68274

    Hi Hiccup - Barclay used to like to don his robe and mitre at times but does at least step outside the 'party lines' at times doesn't he mate. Lineker - greasy smarm on legs. Somebody really ought to take him aside and tell him he cant grow facial hair and should give it up mate.

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 08, 2015, 20:37 #68273

    Ron, yes indeed they were all gathered together on Sky this morning to give us all the wisdom of their knowledge, and as far as I know Collins was in attendance, obviously some pay more heed to them than others. A good description of Samuel, although even more irritating is that Matt somebody or other who when talking, half way through a sentence on a subject suddenly pauses and starts talking about something else, what a prat. But I did catch a bit of goals on Sunday where Merse, Parlour, and Tony Mc Coy were guests some great stories and quips enjoyed listening to Mc Coy and what he put himself through over the years, loved parlour's quip when they showed merses last game along with Kammara for some amateur outfit when he scored, and parlour quipped (referring to his gut) has your air bag gone off. I didn't catch it all but might catch the rerun later tonight. I have met Parlour a few times and he's a top bloke chatted away, nothing was any trouble autographs, photo's, top legend.

  12. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2015, 20:36 #68272

    Research heads will roll at AKB after this latest fiasco. 'Give him a chance ....' Ha ha ha ha ha!

  13. Hiccup

    Mar 08, 2015, 19:28 #68271

    Ron, I caught some of that journo drivel on sky this morning and they brought that Oliver Holt story up. I nearly choked on my cornflakes as that Patrick Barclay whose always defended wenger disagreed with Holt. I suppose Oliver Holt as a spokesperson for the AKB's is an upgrade on Gary Lineker who was the last term of reference that they used. Wouldn't it be devastating if we kept finishing 6th instead of 4th.

  14. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2015, 19:24 #68270

    Nice dummy you sold there WESTIE only you are running the wrong way! The horse has BOLTed ...... Last seen in the Channel Islands.

  15. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 18:53 #68269

    Oliver Bolt - i think ive fallen in love with you mate ha ha!

  16. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 18:40 #68268

    Westie - Oli Holt 1. Check who he works for - Daily Mail. Im sure youve heard him if hes still on that Sky journos prog that used to be on on a Sunday am? Hes the next most sanctimonious up his own imaginary moralistic back side slightly behind that other holier than thou dick, Patrick Collins and then on the inside lane runs the next smug fat sanctimonious knuckle dragger, Martin 'what i dont know about all sports isnt worth knowing' lip spittling Samuel. Holt would find a case to exhume and post posthumously forgive Pol Pot if he thought there was some oral high ground to rest his smug arse on.

  17. Gaz

    Mar 08, 2015, 18:31 #68267

    'Be carful what you wish for' should be banned from this site. The fact a complete numbskull like Holt cMe out with it should be no surprise to anyone. @Reboot: Excellent point RE Chapman fella...

  18. Bard

    Mar 08, 2015, 18:12 #68266

    Well if Oliver Holt says it it must be true. I heard from someone who knows someone that Oliver Holt doubles up as Baddie's life coach in his spare time, hence the interminable b******* from Olly and Baddie. Westie your brilliant mate. MG you need to sort out your lifestyle if we're going to make another stab at managing Arsenal. Your behaving life a PL player !!! A very belated happy birthday Baddie. Olive Holt says he agrees with everything you say.

  19. Oliver Bolt

    Mar 08, 2015, 17:51 #68265

    Hello Westlower - I am a journalist from the Daily Gazette I would like to talk to you about the Elephant in the room called Arsene Wenger. Be careful what you wish for West Lower as you certainly don't want to live in interesting times Geddit! You see under Wenger the average position has been higher than it was between 1966 to 1996 with one, yes ONE#! trophy one in the last 10 years. Previous to that he was very successful but then started shagging a French Rapper and appears to have completely lost the plot. Under the previous failure a man called George Graham you won two titles, two league cups, 1 fa cup 1 Cup Winners Cup. But you had a lower average league position so he was a complete failure. Ed! Can I get away with anymore bull****. Sorry better go. Articles to write and all that.

  20. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2015, 17:44 #68264

    Ha ha WESTIE sounding like his other hero Cameron now and they both read the same old rubbish from yesteryear. Bet you love Osbourne too seeing as how that Etonian (duh) has so much in common with (Sir) Arse(e) Wonga. The predictability is hilarious old bean! Maybe you should have done a few more brain-stretching exercises before you came 'out of the tunnel' again. Polly must be loving how she ran the AKBs .... Nice one kiddo. WESTIE will be praying ALLEn was a one off.

  21. reboot

    Mar 08, 2015, 17:28 #68263

    Westlower, when you mention Chapmans first 5 years, surely what you should be saying is that it ONLY took him 5 years to take a club that had existed for 50 years and won NOTHING and turned them into the greatest club in England. But no, in your desire to defend Wenger at all costs you are willing to talk down on our greatest ever manager. Shame on you sir!

  22. mark from aylesbury

    Mar 08, 2015, 17:26 #68262

    West Lower - Oliver Holt also said in the article "Be careful what you wish for" Jesus wept, has this man gone to the "most irritating sayings guide", even Jameson admitted to be pissed off with that one. He may as well said "may you live in interesting times" the comment for all psuedo intellectuals to add to their repertoire of bull****. The comments to his article telling. Most of them saying what a complete Numb scull he is. May I just say to Oliver - May you live in interesting times, oh Oliver be careful what you wish for!!!!!!!!!

  23. Westlower

    Mar 08, 2015, 17:12 #68261

    A summary of words from Oliver Holt, chief sports writer of the Mail on Sunday: Wenger out? Don't make me laugh. Even if they lose their grip on the Cup tomorrow at United, Arsenal supporters should be careful what they wish for. In the period from 1966 to Wenger's arrival in 1996, Arsenal's average position in the league was between 6th & 7th. It is only now that Wenger has been given the tools to aim for the top again. He has got Arsenal moving forward. He deserves the chance to try to finish the job.

  24. A Cornish Gooner

    Mar 08, 2015, 16:15 #68260

    Baddie. Well done indeed to Charlie. You mention that he gets coaching, but he's not a member of a running club is he? What about Thanet? If he was affiliated you could see all his results on the 'Power of 10' site, like Hughie Coleman for example. Happy belated birthday.

  25. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2015, 15:49 #68259

    'The invisible silverware of CL qualification' trickles down to the invisible argument of the AKB, the invisible (off shore) monies of ArseneCorp, the invisible support of football at the Wok (see Madame Tussauds) and then the rain comes .... in Manchester. Swirling around through the floodlights and falling into the eyes of Ozil ...

  26. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 08, 2015, 15:32 #68258

    Belated happy birthday also Baddie, had a rough night myself last night crawling up the stairs at 4am but that's another story. Fancy us for a 0-2 and don't ask why with our defence (a feeling in my water) because if we are two up it's sure to be like the Alamo with ten to go, but here's to hoping. Anyway if we do eventually manage a win what difference is it going to make other than a bit of wall papering again.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 08, 2015, 14:29 #68257

    It looks like wounds have been licked, bandages applied, and a regrouping taken place, AKB central command must have been a busy place last night. Polly for prime minister.

  28. Mark from Aylesbury

    Mar 08, 2015, 13:49 #68256

    Jameson - your response about Arshavin indicates the stadium is full of WOB's. This must be a problem for you as previously you have suggested it is a small minority.

  29. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2015, 13:43 #68255

    I have caught the seminal brainwash that Wenger accidently runs into during his abstracted foray into football verses his pathologically fundamental foray into socio-economics. LVG is beginning to look like a Wenger type though if he is still at OT in 2035 maybe things will pan out for him. There is more likelihood that 'Sir/Lord Arsene Wenger' may well be sitting in the stands long after LVG has gone back to warmer shores with perhaps an FA Cup or two. He may even be going at it with Moysey before long. But yes - fully expect Arsene FC to win by two goals at least but that is if they really want such a trophy or currency. Think they will find tougher battles with Villa and perhaps Liverpool so maybe they are already thinking of stepping down to concentrate on the top top consolation of THIRD. Think of horses as some forever do on here and then realise why THIRD really is within the currency of Fourths a mighty and most glistening prize for those who do not find John Travolta remotely creepy. Anyway, we got a draw with Chichester so we little folk are hopeful and looking forward. Monday night in Manchester. Will it rain? of course it will.

  30. jeff wright

    Mar 08, 2015, 13:26 #68254

    Arshavin was commenting on the audience Jamerson sitting in dumb silence like little lambs on their hands that even Elvis's 'The Wonder Of You' had failed to rouse to any signs of life .This includes you and your brother of course .Who was the bell-end that thought the 'Wonder Of You' was an appropriate song to play before the likes of Diaby,Bendtner ,Denilson and co trotted out>? The Donkeys Serenade would have been more appropriate.You couldn't make it up.

  31. Bard

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:58 #68253

    I stand corrected but we havent beaten them at Old Trafford for 7 years so the opta stats would suggest they will win hands down. A win will be a fantastic boost for us with Monaco coming up but we are mentally weak as a side and have a poor record against the top sides. So the odds are on a familiar bottle job. I call it like this, we go 1-0 up and lose 2-1 in the last 10 minutes.

  32. Badarse

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:50 #68252

    Yes Ron, he gets the coaching and encouragement-in equal measure to that dished out by my wife to me. He is a superb athlete-has the physique, balance and natural skill inbred, it is only a case of desire in his case, yet he has so many distractions in today's world, as many people do, especially the young. I'm entering the 'National Winter Bath Chair Downhill Slalom', next winter, tried the uphill one this winter and it was a dead heat with all participants stationary. Thanks for the birthday greetings chaps, much appreciated. Am 67 24601.

  33. jeff wright

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:41 #68251

    Arshavin summed up the 'Emirates Experience' when he said that it was weird playing in front of all those people sitting in big red seats waiting to be 'entertained' and it was for him nothing like real football. Of course the 'Emirates Experience' is a show that is sold to day trippers and tourists who visit London along with tickets to Madame Tussauds, although sometimes the waxwork dummies provide more entertainment for the tourists than the live dummies at the Emirates do.So on to another theatre in Manchester where the dreams have faded away like Scots mist on a sunny morning with the departure of the old garrulous Glaswegian and where the audience have now become a bit tetchy and the atmosphere glum. Not much between us and United football wise we are a bit more creative they have a better GK and have conceded a few less goals than us while we have scored a few more than them. Managers and tactics could play a part in this affair though so I will move on from that !They look like the sort of side that plays in a way that doesn't suit our style in my view, in fact the result at the Emirates when they beat us 2-1 despite all our passing and huffing and puffing away says so. United have players who can win the ball off us when we are pushing forward deep into their half and then launch quick counter attacks that exposes the gaps in our defense and the lack of pace in it. Players such as Young ,Valencia and Rooney know our weaknesses. Do our players know United's is the question ? Probably not due to Wenger's weird approach to ignoring such trivia while concentrating instead on having our little technicians run around traffic cones on the training ground to try and get them to score those sort of multi move passing goals that he loves so much.It works a treat this at the Emirates but history shows that this approach is not so good away from there.Especially at OT. So I think I will pass on making any predictions and instead trust to luck surely even Wenger's must change sometime against United . I won't be betting on this happening though. Luck is a transient thing and not something that you can count on.

  34. Hiccup

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:41 #68250

    Exeter, good one. With no Champions League meeting in the week there should be no handicap either. Baddie, a win tomorrow and I'll stretch to Getting Better!

  35. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:41 #68249

    Jamie - WBA and Villa are in the same league mate! Whats more its a poor league from top to bottom. Its AFC fan snobbishness to class AFC as higher level as yr post does and its half the problem with our fans and top 4 club fans also. You might not relise it but the fans of such as Albion derive far more pleasure from going to football than do such as our fans, so whos got it right? Moreover if you recjon rsenal are always playing great football, i can only suggest youve seen little of them in the last 10 yrs? Its a myth. Theyre tepid as often as their good and fear filled as often as their ferocious.ferocious. Ill have to say too that the Emirates is the only stadium ive ever dropped off to sleep in - AFC v Blackburn several yrs back or read a long 48 page medical report while the 'game' was on v Everton a few yrs back. Youre kidding yself if you think what AFC feed us is as refined and smooth as you make out. The 'real mccoy' performances we ve played out can be counted on two hands in the last 10 yrs. Like them or not Chelsea are a great side too with 4/5 top quality players. Sorry to pee on yr illusion party mate.

  36. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:29 #68248

    Thats nice to hear Baddie i.e his running. Keep him encouraged mate. Its been my thing for yrs via my half marathon addictions!! I feel about 94 at the end of them and wonder if ill ever walk in a straight line again but its great stuff and smashing camaraderie amongst the runners. He ll never get fat either!!

  37. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:26 #68247

    Hi Ron : Confidence is the problem with Villa, Sinclair second half looked a "world beater" and his brilliant driving run into the box to give Delph the space to score was a great example of how to play without the ball. It makes you wonder how any ball playing team could ever loose to WBA & Villa but they do and it shows the value of playing as a team and working the percentages.

  38. Badarse

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:19 #68246

    Would hope and expect that as a minimum requirement, Ron. Hiccup, come for a walk with me, forget 'Misery', though a great track, I've got 'Beautiful Day' playing in my head, and my hands thrust deep in my pockets, playing 'pocket billiards'. My knees are recovering from an attempt at 'Baggy Trousers' on the dance floor yesterday evening, so it looks as though I am still moving to that rhythm, and have spilt two cups of 'Rosie' already. Young Charlie decided to attempt a PB for his 5k Parkrun last Saturday, but hadn't trained or prepared enough, knew he would miss it. His PB was 19m20s, and although a great effort conditions and poor preparedness meant 19m45s, was a disappointment. Told him if he trained this work with an extra session he would set a new one. Well he smashed it! 19minutes dead is his new PB, he wants to get into the 18m plus next week. Not bad for a free-running 14years old. See Hiccup, a beautiful day.

  39. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 08, 2015, 12:11 #68245

    Liked that one, Badarse. As for tomorrow's match, to use a parlance sometimes relevant to these pages, this Arsenal team are talented but skittish, only like it when the going is good and are easily put out of their stride. And as the jockey also wears blinkers, difficult to put back on course once they start careering off. Utd by contrast have no change of pace and just keep galloping in a straight line, plus tend to get the better of any steward's enquiry. As result I think they'll pip us at the post, 3-2.

  40. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:58 #68244

    SKG - oh yes mate, it was more passion than poise for sure. My point is though that there was 100 pc desire to do well by both sides, to seek a medal, to please the fans. It was a gulf away from the sterility of the largely scripted PL and all that its become, as if the players coaches and fans had just said lets forget what footballs become and supposed to be, lets just go for it and in old fashioned way. HICCUP - with you totally mate.BADDIE - Yes you cd be right on the button with a draw. Anything for me but another feeble, nerve wracked let down will do me. I can cope with a loss if we can leave the place and say we gave it every gunshot we could muster and last bit of muscle and sinew we ve got.

  41. Badarse

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:49 #68243

    Morning Ron, peace chum...until the next time, ha ha. In this household we have two 1-2 wins, and I am expecting/anticipating/hoping to get a 1-1 and bring them back to London. @Morning E/G, you are mistaken I'm afraid, there are a number of barometers we judge by, and vitally important ones too. Our stadium papercups bearing the 'Disneyfied' AFC logo are unique-'Across the Universe'. Our 'Groundsman of the Year' award is fiercely defended each season, so are the Armoury's monthly sales returns. The 'Arsenalisation' of the stadium continues as the lettering on the hard alcohol bottles in Club Level are changed to 'Speereet', and forget the pressures of end of season transfer targets, we are finalising a sponsorship deal with 'Bosch, PLC', for their new range of AW brake pads and handbrake parts. Life is an interminable challenge to seek improvement. We are negotiating a deal with a barometer company also, and progress so far has been of the fair weather sailing variety. Whoops, that could wake up radfordkennedy!

  42. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:47 #68242

    Hi Westie lad - im trying to chivvy up some blind optimism mate as im going up there tomorrow! First time since the 8-2! Exorcise the ghosts and all that stuff mate...ha . I met Charlton a few yrs back in the Thistle hotel in Piccadilly in Manchester. He was having a meal with Mike Summerbee and another chap. Summerbee is a nice bloke. Had the chance to tell him how i used to go Maine Road quite a bit and see him and Bell Lee and Young and Doyle and Co trounce Utd for fun as i lived up in Rusholme for a couple of yrs early 70s.

  43. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:39 #68241

    Morning all, Ron, not sure about forecasting the result tomorrow but I will tell you this, the first half will be 1,000 times better than the first half of the Villa WBA game. "The greatest league in the world" you are having a "tin bath" The worse 45 minutes of football I have ever seen, I have played against more skilful players than some of those wearing "lace ups" yesterday! As for predictions you have to give Utd at least two goals - one goal, as always, from Rooney and a penalty for Utd from the ref. So can we score three to win it? against that defence we should create chances, beating their keeper will be the main problem - I am going for a 2 - 2.

  44. Hiccup

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:38 #68240

    Belated birthday wishes baddie. And there's the difference. They'd probably play The Beatles 'Misery' track at my party! Hi Ron, full credit to Westie. If they don't look after him, he'll soon clear off like Cesc to Arseblog. He can't continue to carry this lot. As for tomorrow, I'm going for an arsenal win. I just can't see how this United team that keeps getting worse year by year can continue to keep beating us? A draw would do. Liverpool in the final for revenge would be nice. Looking forward to the game. Only piss poor money compared to the CL, but taking on United and the scousers in the cup beats that mundane CL qualifying crap and the annual last 16 thrashing. As United currently sit 4th, it just shows how overvalued this 4th place nonsense is. Allen's posts yesterday encapsulates the gulf between the rest of the league that never existed in the past.

  45. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:37 #68239

    EG - the fabled top 4 is perhaps the precursor to a break away from the domestic leagues too? Theres always a step too far for any gravy train and i tend to the view that while they're on a one a way journey to the abyss now, that will be a factor that destroys it. You're right what you say and its staggering how so many aren't aware of how they've been picked up and taken for the ride isn't it. Mind you, that game at Vila Park yesterday was a reminder that a less turgid, less sinister and less sterile game can still wink at us from time to time, (preferably less the pitch invasion of course) It begs the question at times that if the so called 'top' Clubs did ever haul their bloated cash laden backsides off to some sterile euro or even world 'super' league that football would actually be the winner for it.

  46. Westlower

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:36 #68238

    Well done Ron for breaking the impasse. I agree that we're due to beat them lucky devils. Haven't been to OT since Overmars took them apart. @Badarse, Belated Happy Birthday, by my reckoning we're a combined 136 years old. We ought to know something about football by now? You mentioned Moss-side. I used to visit a company there where Sir Bobby Charlton was apprentice in his teenage years. Got to shake his hand on my last visit to OT. I later sent him a copy of the 1958 Arsenal v Man U programme. Also got to meet Brian McClair, who is now director of the youth academy at Man U.

  47. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:20 #68237

    Was really a dream of the youth of yesterday that one day, they'd see their team finish 4th every season? 'The top 4' is a modern invention, a product of the TV age needing more 'excitement' to sell to its audience. Hype, a sham. But fans buy into it. Earlier AFC managers did not target a top 4 finish and no one would've noticed if they had. But for some it's become the be all and end all, the ultimate barometer - the only barometer.

  48. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:09 #68236

    Hi Hiccup - credit due to Westie, he s a monster for games, plays Tues, thurs sat and Sun and never shirks an AKB 'shift'. They do over play him though. You always tell when hes tired and fatigued as he falls into a withdrawn role and just sprays out the old re gurgitated cycle of stats. Theyve no other forward to play. Total respect for Westie. Hes a journeyman but a solid tryer (like Giroud). Hes like Fabregas used to be carrying an overall weak team but a win at OT will see him refreshed, 6 guns strapped tight, his Joe Mercer cardboard cut out face on and ankle high dubbinged Ted Drake boots on replete with an Alan Sunderland perm.

  49. Badarse

    Mar 08, 2015, 11:01 #68235

    Touche Hiccup, ha ha. Get this, I went to a double birthday celebration last night, two siblings, young, naïve and idealistic both, celebrating Wednesday's anniversary for themselves. Ironically it was my birthday yesterday, so an odd and unique experience. I was not, repeat not, the first male up on the dance floor, but I was the second and was the last to leave it. In fact late on my daughter craftily went to the DJ and an announcement was made and all sang 'Happy Birthday', then with a Beatle acknowledgement he played 'Please, Please me', just for me. There was still the finale. My daughter and a close schoolfriend who moved nearby a few years ago from London-and are a comedy act on the dancefloor, and a very beautiful one I might add-began the Freddie tribute as the last song played. All had hats and coats on, but with Zimmer frame in hand I hobbled back from the exit to join in. I postured and gave Freddie spins and sultry looks as the two women, almost prostrate before me, sang back at me, then I wet myself! (only kidding-I do that sometimes).

  50. Ron

    Mar 08, 2015, 10:55 #68234

    Morning chaps - its time perhaps that we did a good old fashioned round of forecasts for the FAC game at OT and left the age old Wenger issue on the back burner for a while. Against all logic, history and common sense gut feeling alone suggests to me 1-2 to the Arse. If only upon the basis that we ve got to win there some time. Ill prepare for a drubbing nontheless. Cmon lads, lets have it from you now. Colours to the mast and all that.

  51. Hiccup

    Mar 08, 2015, 10:41 #68233

    Morning baddie. Too little, too late I'm afraid mate. Very much a pummelling to the extrent of those AC Milan and Bayern first leg ties that you've got too much ground to make up. The wobs will have their feet put up today. But if you guys want to throw some more opta stats and huff and puff yourselves down more cul de sacs all day again, please feel free. We're not that bad us wobs. We'll let you claim victory as you go out on away goals, when the contest is already dead. We don't want you guys to scurry off again with your ball.

  52. Badarse

    Mar 08, 2015, 10:13 #68232

    westlower withdrawn from the field, Hiccup? No, he was under instructions to put himself about, and burn himself out. Substitutions were made and a decision to keep him on was taken-had he got a yellow for his tackle on Polly rather than an undeserved stern lecturing, (officials are crap though, we know that), he would have come off. His searching balls were a testament to that. In fact his searching balls are often seen resting on his thigh when they appear to go walkabout, (he will wear those cycling shorts though). Jamerson is on now though to break up the fluency of your attack-yes he is wearing a mask as it is in vogue, but a Peppa Pig one was his own decision, still don't think naïve and idealistic thinking played it's part-he just loves Peppa.

  53. Badarse

    Mar 08, 2015, 9:45 #68231

    Good morning my children, take my hand and let me lead you into the light. Whoops, you bumped into the coffee table. You do have to open your eyes, that is expected, otherwise you will continue to walk into things-I can only be responsible for taking you so far. As westlower said to that little boy in Waitrose yesterday, 'You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink!' True the little lad was mystified, and ran down the cereal aisle shouting for his mummy-(westlower often lurks there remembering past glories, trapped in the past with his old fart thinking)-but I think The lad got the message. Were it not for a number of restraining orders I am sure westlower would have an increased quota of young converts. As you all so rightly point out, it is good to get the views of the young, and especially as the chief pat Ron said, 'Naïve and idealistic thinking is the privilege of the young', I think that about my friend's young lad who jokingly still refers to AW as 'Daddy Arsenal', an outlook he was schooled in in his younger days. Nope, he would get a swift admonishment for the temerity of his 'blinkered outlook', that would be termed brainwashing, so it is about youth when it is consistent with a herd think, but not so when against that mentality. The persuasive power of the cult at work, methinks' Mmm, very interesting, but stupid!'(Thank you 'Rowen and Martin', it still has resonance). Bile Bard? Wow, you must have such a cosy and platonic life style on your country estate if you mistook that for bile. I was taught to stand my ground when the fight is worthwhile, or a principle was at stake. I give back chum. Someone has a dig at me, my loved ones, or things I hold dear, then expect one back. I know it is naïve and idealistic thinking in the raw, but don't mistake that for bile. No one on this site has insulted the young lady, her views and opinions are valid, and true to her. None think she is about to throw in the towel. I champion the rights of equality for all, especially youth, but am aware that modern life, and dinosaur-thinking can influence in a dangerous fashion, take a look around the world gentlemen, the young are using weapons in far off wars-like in Brixton, Moss Side, Toxteth. Naïve and idealistic? 'Mmm, very interest...', no I've already worked that one. Anyway, Forward Arsenal, (but don't neglect the midfield and defence). Important lesson for Ron to recognise and absorb. My posts are constantly insulting? I have never, nor would I ever, have a dig at those who are respectful, and if I just overstep the mark I quickly apologise. Hiccup, Bard, maguiresbridge, Tony Evans-wow the list is endless-have differing views to me, but I have the utmost respect for these boys, and I think it shows. Think on it.

  54. Westlower

    Mar 08, 2015, 9:38 #68230

    Good on Allen for highlighting all the successful times in Arsenal's history. About time somebody had some positive words to say about AFC. Obviously the 30's was the greatest period as we lifted 7 trophies but even in this period of almost total dominance set backs occurred. Only winning 15 of the 42 league games in 35/36 & finishing 6th must have come as a shock to Gunners fans of the day, As was the embarrassment of getting knocked out of the FA Cup by 3rd division Walsall in 1933. Can you imagine the posts on that day if the Gooner website had existed back then? Some people are ignorant of the fact that it took our greatest manager Herbert Chapman 5 trophy-less years before he got it right. I'll endeavour to put some perspective on Arsenal's history as I lived through it. I was comparing my experiences with 19 year old Polly. For me, from the age of 6 to 23 we not only won nothing but sadly never looked like winning anything, unless you include the Wembley defeat by Swindon. Everything changed in 1970, with glorious nights at Highbury & the Lane. I've never returned to the Lane as I wish to preserve the memory of that whole day. I left work at midday to queue for the game. Emotionally, I cannot split winning the Fairs Cup at Highbury or winning the league at our neighbours. Sadly Arsenal couldn't build on these successes and dropped away again, albeit some good Cup runs before the wonderful night at Anfield in 89. Another great team emerged in 91 but again we couldn't sustain our run and dropped away again. Many embarrassing moments along the way, losing to Wrexham, P'boro, Rotherham, Tranmere, York, Oxford, Millwall, etc. Sadly, from 1996 the whole debate is coloured by whether you want Wenger out or not. Whatever you feel about the board/manager the past two decades has been our most consistent period in the clubs history. The Wenger out sentiment has split the fan base which sadly weakens the clubs chances of success. The frustrating irony is that the club has never been bigger or stronger in my lifetime. Compared to Polly I only ever experienced a top 4 position twice in 17 years, but believe me that when the Fairs Cup was lifted by Frank, the long wait had been worthwhile. Polly has only known Arsenal as a top 4 club, it was only a pipedream in my youth.

  55. Hiccup

    Mar 08, 2015, 9:29 #68229

    Looks like the AKB's have withdrawn Westie from the field. All this tippy tappy opta play is causing fatigue and leading to own goals. Looks like they have sent on coldsore boy whose only way of playing is to kick out in the style of John Fashanu. Hardly any style is it though? Another sad day in the AKB kingdom.

  56. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 08, 2015, 0:59 #68228

    Exeter, you are catching jeff's propensity to write drivel, more of that tripe and you too will have your own song....mug.

  57. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 08, 2015, 0:31 #68227

    Blimey, this Allen bloke would be a fearsome opponent. Westlower - as has been pointed out to you, it's your selection of certain stats out of context, again and again, that make you Wenger's lovechild. There are many other stats that would tell a very different story of the Wenger years, should you choose to select those out of context instead. You are and have been often been wiling to denigrate AFC's history in order to place Wenger on a higher pedestal. I recall you saying not long ago that his decade of 4ths meant these were better teams than those of the 30s, because in some of those years AFC finished out of the top 4. But really, attempting to debate with you is a waste of time. You're not interested in debate. You're just interested in posting whatever you think will make Wenger will look good. You just ignore any strong points that go against your 'stance' and carry on regardless. goonercolesyboy - when will it occur to you that when you have nothing to say, it's best to say nothing?

  58. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 07, 2015, 22:55 #68226

    jj, good post, hear what your saying, the number of players on this team who think they've arrived and are the bees knees,(and have thought it for some time) wally, Xbox jack, chamberlain, Ramsey, the cart horse, szcezney, etc, etc, and all because TOF has told them so, or led them to believe it with all his waffle, and has done a better job of getting fans to believe it, and boy they do, but that's not to hard when they hang of his every word and believe everything he slabbers) when like you say they're really only fourth, fifth, even sixth class and wouldn't get a look in at any other top team.

  59. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 07, 2015, 20:57 #68225

    jj, brutal is the word mate, with a capital B, they don't know which way to turn, I suppose there's always AKB central command.

  60. Bard

    Mar 07, 2015, 20:02 #68224

    Westie explain how the 2 are connected. Could it be a coincidence. More relevant is how many big games, top PL or CL do we win when he is playing ? Statistically every time I wear my jeans I get lucky with the missus but it also might be because I buy her a dress and we go out for a meal. As Chris would say its very nuanced.

  61. jjetplane

    Mar 07, 2015, 20:01 #68223

    BARD and Giroud believes he really is 'up there.' Similar to the BFG they are allowed in the Wenger realm to think and play as they want. Wenger calls it some form of 'life development' **** and so you end up with personalised sterility such as young Sir Wally is apt to announce. Ramsay tried his hand at a Wenger type greatness which has crashed in a almost bewildering fashion. The thing is the club are relegation fodder in a league of four. The players are groomed for such cynical ambition.

  62. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 07, 2015, 19:59 #68222

    Ahhh, isn't it sweet? A Wob love in. Let's pass the sick bags.

  63. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 07, 2015, 19:48 #68221

    Ron, Jesus H, i can honestly say the same for your post, another 10, or even an 11.

  64. Bard

    Mar 07, 2015, 19:46 #68220

    Cant believe the protracted machinations on here about what constitutes a top striker. Its like listening to politicians on Newsnight. Chris this is not one of your nuanced debates. Giroud isn't a top class striker period, end of debate for the simple reason his scoring ration against top teams is terrible. He may well become one in the years to come but I doubt it. He is too slow and too cumbersome. I will repeat, to be a top side you need a top striker. Yes they are rare and hard to find and you have to pay top money. This isn't a criticism of Wenger because they cost £50m+but this endless nonsense about Giroud's class is total rubbish. Much more of this and we will start having debates about the Boss letting Denilson go because he was a world class midfielder. The only reason I can think of for all this posting about the subject is that we have watched so much mediocre rubbish over the last few years that competence now seems like world class.

  65. Westlower

    Mar 07, 2015, 19:37 #68219

    @Bard, My earlier post 71819 stated that Arsenal have a win percentage of 68% when Giroud plays. Not an opinion, simply an OPTA stat. Nothing to do with not scoring in CL or against top sides, simply that AFC win more games when he plays. To make people aware that Arsenal have not finished top 4 for two thirds of their history previous to 1996 is also not an opinion, simply an historical fact. Stating that fact does not make me Wengers lovechild.

  66. Hiccup

    Mar 07, 2015, 19:24 #68218

    Allen, ease up on Westie. At this rate, they'll start playing animal, vegetable or mineral with you.

  67. jjetplane

    Mar 07, 2015, 19:22 #68217

    This is brutal - The AKB defence is in shambles as the WOBs mount attack after attack. Much more of this and surely Wenger will resign.

  68. jeff wright

    Mar 07, 2015, 18:59 #68216

    I did say Chris that Girouds goal ratio would have to be judged at end of season.That 7.5 ratio was based on results past goals scored per chances. I also said that defences play a part and the team that a striker plays in. Top 4 team first strikers should get 20 goals a season in the Prem some like Austin and Kane could get 20 and they are not playing in top 4 teams . Giroud has not scored 20 Prem goals in a season so far he could though do it this season with ten to still left to play ,we shall see. As I said before I rate him as being a good striker rather than a great one and that for us to compete for the top trophies we need a Suarez type .We have a great second striker in Sanchez but the effort he put in early doors to carry the others appears to have taken its toll on him. His great strike against QPR the other night doesn't change my view on this. Welbeck is only living up to his headless chicken claims about him by United supporters ,will Wenger let Danny Boy try to ram those taunts dand Van Gaal's that he is not good enough for United down their throats >? Anyway leaving the enigmatic Danny out of it Monday night is a good opportunity for Oliver to make a case for himself in one of those ,despite what you claim, big games where he has often gone missing,such as the spuds one and Monaco recently. United are not the force of old but keep on somehow grinding out results .The game is winnable though or even a draw possible ,a draw not being what either side needs of course . It could come down to GK's and defending with there not being much in it regarding goal scoring between us and LVG's methodical crew. It really will all be down to what happens on the night .The FAC is only a sideshow like the League Cup to the main events and Wenger winning it again would not change the fact that he should be doing better in the Prem and in Europe where he has a very poor record with 19 donkeys years of failure .You don't pay a manager 8m a year and put players on a wage bill the equal or more of Chelsea to win FA CUPS ! The FAC is really for top sides just an add on winning 2 in 10 years and nothing else would just once again reveal Wenger's limitations.( Yawn)

  69. Allen

    Mar 07, 2015, 18:59 #68215

    Westlower, with respect, your subsequent posts seem to corroborate my point. You produce statistics without context. All of which are being used to champion the last decade over the less successful pre Wenger/Murdoch days. Until the noughties the top 4 meant not a thing. As I already said, there was no financial disparity between 5 or 6 clubs and the rest like there is today, until the Murdoch/UEFA money came rolling in. Any club(other than the Arsenal) might be relegated, and any number of clubs like Burnley, Forest, Villa and Derby had their period in the sun as league champions.When we won the title in 89 Norwich were fourth, when we won in 91 Palace were third. It was often the dream to win not the league but the FA Cup-ask Frank McLintock- and many a league season was sacrificed to concentrate on the cup when it became apparent that the title was an impossibility. Arsenals cup double in 93 saw 'dummy' teams played from February onwards in the league, including a youth team that included the likes of Marshall and Dickov in the NLD. I already used the Benitez Shankley comparison. Benitez never finished lower than 7th, while Shanks did. So why do they hold Shankley in much higher esteem? Quoting top 4 as some sort of historical barometer is a complete misnomer until such a time as Wengers successor arrives as he, presumably, will also work in the context of top 4 meaning a huge cash windfall. I can throw just as many stand alone facts to beat the band. In the previous 59 seasons, prior to Arsene Wengers appointment Arsenal won 10 league titles,-one title every 5.9 seasons/ In the 20 years under the French mans tenure it’s 3 titles-one every 6.66 seasons. In 19 seasons in Europe under Wenger we have won none and been in 2 finals. So under his stewardship we have won 0% of the competitions entered and reached 10.5% of the possible finals. In the previous 12 seasons in Europe we won twice and were twice runners up. So pre Wenger we won 16.67% of European competitions and reached the final once in every 3 attempts. So over all Arsenals ability to win league titles has diminished under Arsene Wenger despite such fine players Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Adams, Keown etc. The club has gone into total meltdown on the European stage under his management. These are the conclusions to be drawn if the above statistics are placed without context. As I have not bothered to place them in context, they are in fact meaningless and irrelevant. And anyone who lived through those times would know it. The same goes for your top 4 stats. Finishing 3rd or 4th never higher, never lower, in a league in which there are at most 6 financially competitive teams is the very definition of mediocrity. This is what we’ve done in the 8 seasons since Highbury was torn down. Consistently 5th or 6th would be poor, consistently 2 or third good. Finishing 7th or worse even once, leads to the sack ala Moyes, Benitez and Dalglish. Finishing consistently 1st or second is exceptional and virtually unattainable for any club for more than a few years. The latter is what was achieved from 98-2005, which is why Arsene Wenger was rightly lauded and is a major reason why he still retains his position. As I previously stated, the desire of purported Arsenal fans to defend the average by cherry picking our great history and focussing on the bad periods to in some way bash the greatness of past generations in both curious and alien to me. I tend to use my own mind and call a spade a spade. Good times will come to Arsenal again, of that there is no doubt. Bad times and good are a fact of life as a football fan But no amount of spin doctory will blind me into thinking that the last few years have been the best of times to be an Arsenal fan. I certainly can't understand how anyone would be be fooled by the simplistic, bludgeoning spin of Sky Sports and the present Arsenal hierarchy.

  70. Hiccup

    Mar 07, 2015, 18:57 #68214

    Not much to admire at the moment. The charity work is excellent. Ive always liked rosicky. If I was a businessman I'd probably admire the business model and its ability to make good money by exploiting its market. Maybe I just need educating as to what I'm not grasping and what I should admire? If I could just get as thrilled as you guys sbout finishing 4th, then maybe I'd understand what the meaning of life is all about too?

  71. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 07, 2015, 18:21 #68213

    Hiccup, still waiting for you to answer Westlower's question.

  72. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 07, 2015, 18:21 #68212

    Allen, excellent post, you should have saved it for an Article, another 10 material.

  73. jjetplane

    Mar 07, 2015, 18:00 #68211

    Well looks like young Polly has delivered a memorable blow to the flaky AKBs. They never saw that coming. Bit like when the old boy got the runaround from a female reporter. Now he gets his star pupils (Keown) to give him the questions first so he knows when to give a smarmy chortle. From dust they came .....

  74. Chris

    Mar 07, 2015, 17:58 #68210

    Jeff - So far this season, Giroud's ratio is considerably better than 1 in 7.5, so he's obviously improved since he's been there. As for a measure of a striker being what his goals end up winning - that's not really very fair when you could have the best striker in the world in front of a very poor defence and they'd win nothing. You might as well say that the best striker is the one that scores most for the Champions and leave it at that. As for judging what strikers do by how they perform in big games, well I can see that to an extent because they are up against better defences but chances are obviously harder to come by in those games as the opponent concede fewer goals per game. In Giroud's case, he's scored half his league goals against Man U, Man City, Liverpool and Everton this season so he's hardly a flat track bully.

  75. Chris

    Mar 07, 2015, 17:46 #68209

    Gaz - In my opinion, that period has only really been last season and this one, so your 'more than enough time' seems a little harsh to me...

  76. That's another Wenger myth debunked

    Mar 07, 2015, 16:59 #68208

    Nice of Arsene to reveal on Football Focus that he was never asked/told to make top 4 every season after the stadium move. Given our hugely increased revenues, it was only ever deemed financially necessary by the board to qualify for the Champions League 3 out of every 5 years. Which means it was never really much of a virtual 'trophy', and makes you even more disappointed and disillusioned that Wenger didn't spend the money that the board kept publicly telling him he had (to cries of 'liars' from some) during those various windows of opportunity.

  77. Ron

    Mar 07, 2015, 16:54 #68207

    Hi Bard - i thought that was one of Badarse's more lucid posts to be honest. Had to smile at the 'i didnt insult you and would never do that'bit though. Badarse you spend most days on here displaying your wide repertoire of insults to all who disagree with you, ranging from the mildly obtuse retort through to your most downright obnoxious one.You couldn't make it up.

  78. Bard

    Mar 07, 2015, 16:24 #68206

    It is beginning to feel like groundhog day on this site. Westie don't you read the other posts. Your last post suggests you haven't bothered to read Jeff;s re strikers or Allen's re the club. All these stats you keep quoting are devoid of context. What about if I make it simple. if a striker scores 3 from 10 chances against QPR and another scores 1 from 1 chance against Barca in a the CL, the stats say the scorer against QPR is more prolific but we all know the real measure of strikers is ratio to chances and what they do in the big games. The same applies to Arsenal's success or lack of it over the last 70 years. Why you can't see that completely defeats me. Baddie you must have had one of those dodgy curries last night mate, that post was full of bile unbecoming of a man wishing to convert the unfaithful

  79. Ron

    Mar 07, 2015, 16:23 #68205

    Westie - hi mate. i think youve missed a very important facet of Allens post. He makes the unarguable point that pre SKY and th hi jacking of the game by TV, agents and the mass foreign inflx, there wast a clear and defined hierarchy. He means there wasn't league within a league or maybe as now wasnt 2 leagues within a league. You always try and mak Wengers and the Clubs self imposed limiations by comparing the incomparable. The pst Wenger yrs in truth amounted to 96 to 2004 where Utd and AFC had it all bottled up like a cosy bi opoly and then from 2004 to 2009/10 Chelsea and Utd had the same bi opoly and then onwards from there a tri opoly formed as City emerged. These 3 Clubs inc AFC have left the others trailing ie the others being the Spurs Liv and Everton in the main. The rest have followed them as 'A N Other'Clubs by and large. My point is that you cant sensibly compare stats in a game up to 1992 with a post 1992 game. Reality is that you seem to find it hard to accept that finishing in that 'top 4' for an AFC Coach is damn near impossible barring a miracle. Wengers record within his mini league is the aspect of PL football that counts and the truth is that hes usually bottom of that league and has been in the main for a decade. If thats 'success', by yr florid definition of it, its a matter for you of course, but please dont try and blow a raspberry over an unsustainable method of protecting yr own Wenger egg. At worst its disingenuous and at best its yr failure to understand in what context Wenger coaches the Club. AFC need a Coach that wants to win the mini league. To do that any Coach needs a Club structure around him who want to genuinely challenge the others to do so. Us so called AKB dont expect success each season to be defined solely by silverwear. Moat of us can live without it but not without recognizing that the Club chose to go to the races.As long as AFC are actually at the races, losing and failing to get the pots is perfectly acceptable. Wenger and this Club, in its current satisfaction with itself isnt and dare not go to the races. If you cant see that through the mists of yr unhealthy apparent love for Wenger, then yr literally choosing to be deliberately blinded by yr 'love' for the man. You also ought to refrain from deeming all of those who have their eyes open as 'anti Arsenal'. Many might think that of you by yr docile acceptance of what the Club is feeding you? Many fans have been beguiled by Wengers touch of class, intellect and elan as i believe you have.Its understandable as its an impressive concoction that hes cultivated superbly. Take a look behind his veil mate and you maybe see a self interested man whos been feathering his nest for 10 yrs after spending yrs before that creating his hegemony within all that hes surveyed. Hes an unchecked, unaccountable tyrant and hes so grateful for those who see him as you do. Chairman Mao was too.

  80. jjetplane

    Mar 07, 2015, 16:21 #68204

    Trouble is WESTIE when you were a kiddie Arsenal really was Arsenal. I guess you just prefer the now diluted, plastic version from a distance. Call that support!

  81. Hiccup

    Mar 07, 2015, 16:06 #68203

    As I said Westie, don't contact us, we'll contact you. Thanks for your updated cv, but I'll be honest, Allen's is top of the current pile. Besides, I don't recall Polly, or anyone for that matter suggesting they would jump ship and start supporting the teams winning trophies? Honestly, you AKB's are in a right embarrassing muddle today. Firstly they accuse the wobs of making the 4th place trophy crap up. And when they tell Polly to go and support City, they then make out she said that? Get a grip of yourselves. This goldfish brain syndrome is spiralling out of control.

  82. Westlower

    Mar 07, 2015, 15:56 #68202

    Just for the record: In the entire history of Arsenal they have finished top 4 on 23 occasions in 69 seasons since 1919/20 before Wenger's arrival in 96. Another 18 top 4 finishes have since occurred in 18 seasons, hardly a definition of mediocrity for the present management. Historical 33% compared to present 100% top 4 finishes.

  83. jjetplane

    Mar 07, 2015, 15:35 #68201

    Wenger is so out of touch with all his money and ghastly protection he is afforded. All power to Polly, 5th generation and all the disaffected youth of North London. Lay siege and take what is rightfully yours. They will not know what's happening. They are too old and blinkered. Down with 'Cromwell' and his two-word lackeys .... We want more articles from the kids. They know what they are on about. That is what being a youth is. Move over Wenger. Your time has gone. If you want CEO power - move into the financial sector proper. You would probably make a mess there too. rant rant rant! ha ha ha! Oh know Kane has just struck! .... Just ****ing off ......

  84. Westlower

    Mar 07, 2015, 15:30 #68200

    @Allen, Your assessment of me is wide of the mark. I'm not in denial of Arsenal's great history, merely pointing out to Polly where AFC were at when I was her age. The 17 years of famine were dark days indeed but there was never any thoughts of jumping ship and supporting the trophy winners of that bleak period. Waiting for success makes it sweeter when it happens.

  85. jeff wright

    Mar 07, 2015, 15:11 #68199

    Well said Allen these sites are full of Wenger apologists who in some cases actually supported other teams before Wenger arrived and have nailed their colours to his mast.The Wenger ship is heading toward the rocks but these sailors can't jump off they will go down with him.

  86. Allen

    Mar 07, 2015, 14:58 #68198

    Well said Polly. It's up to the younger fans like yourself to make yourselves heard. Pay little attention to the likes of Westlower who claim longevity as Arsenal fans and then trot out the Murdoch/Wenger line about Arsenal having little history of note pre the invention of association football in 1992. I've followed Arsenal for nearly 50 years and this is the first time where the acceptance of mediocrity has become official dogma in some quarters. Indeed there were periods where Arsenal were poorer than now but the acceptance of the situation is something new. Times were completely different in the period Westlower speaks of. There was no financial monopoly at the upper end of the table(there was never a Barce/Real style hierarchy in Engald or indeed anything like the current premier lesgue where only 5 clubs can even dare to dream of the title, due to the financial imbalance. Promoted sides frequently competed for and won league titles. A different world. Clubs like Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs all suffered relegation in the 80 odd seasons since Chapman first won the league title at Arsenal. I don't mention Arsenal because Arsenal, for all the historic nothingness, are the one club that this has never happened too. The myth of Arsenals historic mediocrity, put forward by Westlower and other such Arsenal History bashers, is just that, a myth. If you look at the club with the highest average league position since the 30's its Arsenal. Arsenal have been outside the top half of the table only 9 or 10 times in that time. None of the so called 'successful' clubs comes close. Arsenal won league titles in every decade from the 30's through to the noughties, other than the 60's, again a record superior to every other English club. We have been the most consistent challenger for titles in England for more than 80 years, without ever having gluts of total dominance and then abject failure like Liverpool and United. What we never had before was the embracing of mediocrity. If we had, Terry Neill and Don Howe would not have lost their jobs. It's easy to use Sky stats as a comparator to previous eras, without the vital ingredient of context. A modern 'fact' attempts to use win percentage as a means of judging managerial excellence. Using these stats without context leads to the conclusion that Rafa Benitez and Kenny Dalglish deserve a higher place in Liverpools history than Bill Shankley, with Gerard Houllier being his equal. Need I say more? It staggers me that individuals that claim to support Arsenal attempt to cherry pick the clubs incredible history to make it appear as bad as possible. And it's frequently done in an attempt to suggest that historically we've never been much greater than total nothing clubs like Spurs. I've known many fans of rival clubs and none have ever attempted to argue that Arsenal are in fact a small club with moderate expectations. The only ones I've ever heard consistently go down this erroneous road are a group of individuals that have appeared in recent years under the guise of Arsenal 'fans'. Claiming that you are a true fan and being 'positive' about Arsenal by banging the drum that a decade of 3rd or 4th place is success leaves me,as an Arsenal fan,with the same feelings of security and positivity that Brutus must have felt as his true fan Marc Antony repeatedly assured the masses that Brutus was indeed an honourable man. So don't be afraid to speak your mind Polly, regardless of what the moaners and bashers might say.

  87. jjetplane

    Mar 07, 2015, 14:37 #68197

    WESTIE trying to convince himself that the tattooed wannabe porn star is the real deal. Seeing that idiot kneeling on the turf last sunday while all the westies were staring at him in awe and wonder was a sight to behold. Whatever ****ing happened to the real Arsenal. This sniggering Santi bollox is the limit. Even Westie himelf won't go there 'cause he knows he might drop off ......

  88. Westlower

    Mar 07, 2015, 14:23 #68196

    @Hiccup, Put your cheap-shot sarcasm to one side and enlighten us as to what you most admire about Arsenal, if anything?

  89. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 07, 2015, 13:34 #68195

    Hiccup, 71824, and here was us thinking N,Ireland was the only place who had chuckle brothers as ministers.

  90. jeff wright

    Mar 07, 2015, 13:09 #68194

    This who is the best striker with various stats being put forward is another illusion.It's what the goals that strikers score win that counts in the end. Giroud's stats since he has been with us on the last compilation of his goal scoring ratio done showed that his goals scored was one goal from 7.5 shots .So he scores 10 goals out of 75 chances. If you look at the last 3 games he played v Monaco,Everton and QPR you will see that he had 9 chances in those three games and scored 2 goals from them ,but you have to measure the ratio at the end of the season and I doubt that the 7.5 one will have changed much. Talk Sport recently did a minutes per goal ratio test on strikers and Sturridge came out top on their chart for that. Players like Austin at QPR and Kane at spuds are scoring lots of goals as well and are in sides that are not top 4 class. The side that players are in also has to be taken account of .For me Giroud is too slow and a bit cumbersome and clumsy at times he misses too many chances and that proves costly in those big crunch games against top opponents where you don't get many.Costa scored against us at the Bridge in the 2-0 defeat that we suffered( at least it was not 6-0!)and Sanchez never got a look in and this at a time when we were supposedly on top form! In fact we never had one shot on goal in the entire game.Defending also counts but dear old Arsene refuses to accept this and still insists on going gung-ho go for goals.He seems to be already getting in the excuses for Monday night should things again go the shape of an American football by saying that : Ve vill twy veeery hard to won the game . We would expect nothing less Arsene but hey a bit of tactical nous might help to get a good result instead of another humiliation. Fingers crossed then!

  91. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 07, 2015, 12:56 #68193

    jw, and we know who'll be to, and get the blame, and it certainly won't be TOF himself.

  92. Badarse

    Mar 07, 2015, 12:37 #68191

    Patronising? Patron who? Pat Ron(says it all), We have the arch,(that means chief, but one only wearing chicken feathers), ppatroniser, his footman, (because he is usually grovelling in their vicinity, prostrating himself), the self-anointed Patroniser, (with a capital 'P', because his posts are always taking it-'go west', yes I know you already are but the cold Atlantic beckons), and a motley crew of shambling and shuffling footpads in attendance. Addled brain awaits young Polly if you listen to the clucking of so many chickens. I didn't insult you my young Goonerette, I would never do that,(I am not referring to you jeff),just batten down the hatches, stick with it, await the change, it's coming for better or worse, and keep flying your colours. @Habari yakoo Lakipian, some can be very disrespectful, but others stand with you and perhaps one day you will be at Arsenal Stadium. Make do with living in one of the most beautiful countries in the world, Good old Arsenal, Good old Lakipian. @Where are the Gay Gooners? Please post, you are amongst friends-or one friend at least. Proud to be Gay, proud to be a Gooner. Come out of the cupboard-that's where I send jeff wright when he misbehaves.

  93. jeff wright

    Mar 07, 2015, 12:20 #68190

    Of course Daz but leave out the carrots!

  94. Dazzler

    Mar 07, 2015, 11:54 #68188

    Cannonballs - still spouting your incomprehensible rubbish I see you carrot-crunching oaf!

  95. Hiccup

    Mar 07, 2015, 11:22 #68187

    Chris, I don't think there's any misunderstanding? When a team like Burnley is promoted to the PL you get the usual stuff from the manager like our main aim is to stay up. The second year, you usually get stuff like we want to consolidate our position in the PL. Everyone knows where they stand. If you get a team like Villa pissing around at the bottom like they are, I think it's understandable for the sound bite from the club that their priority this year is to stay up. Now if come next August, if they wheel the same line that they'd be happy to just stay up again, then I dont think the Villa fans would be too happy to hear that. Hardly ambitious for a club that size. When teams like liverpool or United drop out of the top 4, it's understandable that the line is to get back in the top 4. But when you're an established top 4 team, and wenger pedals the same line, it just tells us that we have reached the pinnacle of our ambition. It's saying anything else is a bonus, but we won't break our backs trying to achieve it. So it's quite obvious that 4th is the goal, that's the benchmark, and that is the trophy.

  96. Gaz

    Mar 07, 2015, 10:25 #68186

    Chris-and there lies the big dilema for a lot of us in that if we really thought he was going to change and we were going to improve alongside that change then doing 'well enough' right now would be perfectly fine. But a lot of us feel we're never going to improve beyond 'doing well enough' because he'll never change enough to improve on that! He's certainly had more than enough time to break us out of this period of being in the position to compete for the big trophies but never actually competing for them!...

  97. Gaz

    Mar 07, 2015, 10:14 #68185

    I wonder how much better those OPTA striking stats would be if we had a really top striker like Aguero, Suarez, or Costa in the side? Actually thats slightly unfair on Giroud who's a half decent striker. What I will say is that if you want to secure fourth place every season Giroud is your man without a doubt. If you're aimimg higher I'm not sure he's really good enough...

  98. Chris

    Mar 07, 2015, 10:14 #68184

    Gaz - That's fair enough but it does demonstrate why the club will never get rid of a manager who's performance is 'good enough', which Wenger's certainly continues to be, even if not in the eyes of a certain section o the fanbase (however large or small that may be). Hiccup - It was obvious what that cmment meant - Wenger's biggest failing there was lack of awareness at how much the fanbase was hurting already and therefore how willing they would be to deliberately misunderstand him on it.

  99. Gaz

    Mar 07, 2015, 9:56 #68183

    @Chris: Of course theres no guarantee changing the manager will bring instant success but I think a lot of fans would rather the uncertainty of not knowing whats going to happen than the turgid and now boring predictabilty of it all...

  100. Hiccup

    Mar 07, 2015, 9:34 #68182

    So yesterday we had an AKB Junior Minister telling the floating voter to go support City if you want trophies. Later on, the Minister for Talking Bollocks said if you want trophies, stick with Arsenal, as they will come. Can someone from the AKB Party please clarify their stance on what the glory hunting JCL voter should do please? Many Thanks.

  101. Hiccup

    Mar 07, 2015, 9:12 #68181

    "The first trophy is to finish in the top four." That sounds pretty clear what the order of priority is, and that 4th is indeed regarded as a trophy. I don't see how wobs have misinterpreted this and stretched this to suit any agenda. Do keep trying though jamie.

  102. Chris

    Mar 07, 2015, 8:54 #68180

    Gaz - (71786) One obvious thought is that changing managers obviously didn't really help during that period, did it? Not unless there is satisfaction purely in seeing managers sacked for not giving us what we want....

  103. Bard

    Mar 07, 2015, 8:53 #68179

    Westie; thats the problem with stats they're selective. His ratio in the CL games and against the top sides is woeful. I like him he's a trier but he is nowhere near world class and you cannot compete at the highest level unless you have a world class striker. Chelsea won't do anything in CL for the same reason Costa isn't world class.If we had of had one the Monaco tie would have been over in our favour and several other results in the PL would have go our way. We might have even been competing for the PL

  104. Westlower

    Mar 07, 2015, 8:38 #68178

    The importance of Giroud to the team. According to OPTA, Arsenal's win percentage stands at 68% with Giroud in the team but falls to 50% without him.

  105. Ozzie

    Mar 07, 2015, 7:25 #68177

    Daylight, I love your literary ability - it wouldn't look out of place in Manchester. Give Polly a break, pal! I follow a team here in Australia that has won ONE premiership since 1873 - it was 1966 - I have watched them lose five grand finals and every year I come back for more.

  106. 5th generation

    Mar 06, 2015, 22:54 #68176

    Nice article, I'm nearly 29 and my first season was 92/93 so was brought up with success. These last few years have been horrible but hopefully Wenger will leave at the end of his contract and success can follow. The Emirates is soulless and no match for Highbury, you could really sense the history walking around the place, especially where I sat in the old East Stand.

  107. Hiccup

    Mar 06, 2015, 22:04 #68174

    Evening guys. Yes interesting to get the feelings of a younger fan. The last paragraph sums it up perfectly, snapping out of this lull. And that's exactly what it is. It's flummoxed the AKB's as they can't throw the JCL line at Polly. Listening to the excuses of patience is needed and success is just around the corner doesn't help their cause. All sounds rather pathetic and feeble. It's quite inspiring to know that the younger generation have sone drive and ambition and see through all this bollocks.

  108. Roy

    Mar 06, 2015, 21:54 #68173

    Good to hear a younger persons perspective Polly, and for me the first sentence of your final paragraph says it all. As you will have noted, there are plenty on here who think that Wenger has taken the club as far as he can ( me included ), and no longer has the wherewithall or the tactical acumen required to improve on the monotonous groundhog day seasons that he himself has created. What I find absolutely staggering is this. His contract has another 2 seasons to run, and it is perfectly clear from reading some of the posts on here, that at the end of that time, and if nothing has changed, there will STILL be those who think he should carry on. Unbelieveable.

  109. jeff wright

    Mar 06, 2015, 21:43 #68172

    Mg, a moving clock ticks more slowly than a stationary one tick tock and the judge me in May by Wenger was made when donkeys years ago early doors in the season when Wenger was supposedly engaged in one of his title bids .This was of course just another of his of his illusions but when things started to turn nasty after the usual March collapse he then pulled off a new trick to an astounded world by producing his theory on non relativity to mass stupidity that 4th place equals a trophy .So the failure to win the real one was replaced by another that equated to success.The previous theory of Wenger's that the FAC was no longer a worthy trophy to pursue was found though to be faulty last season when due to a combination of fortuitous circumstances Wenger won it . Albeit he had claimed back in December when we were top of the league that it was the Prem title that he would win. The FAC became important to Wenger after he made a mess of the title bid and then needed the domestic cup to divert attention away from his Prem title tilt failure with everyone now having sussed out that 4th place was not a trophy . This season it looks more likely with the European Cup being just a bong and pipe dream that most likely it will be the 4th place trophy that gets celebrated if Wenger can see off the challenge of United and Liverpool who are also after it. Apart from the FAC as well. Finishing in front of one of these pair will be touted as proof that Wenger is still the Monsieur who can can. If he ends up in the Ropey then there will have to be excuses found to show that he was unlucky or cheated or even that it is a blessing in disguise! You couldn't make it up.

  110. Bard

    Mar 06, 2015, 21:41 #68171

    Hiccup very funny mate , enjoyed that. Also enjoyed Polly's post. interesting to think about what Arsenal's history means for the younger generation. 10 years of 4th place isn't the stuff of inspiration I agree. Sadly Arsenal don't really give a flying f*** about younger fans or indeed fans at all. Its a lucrative business and with all the Sky/Bt dosh soon to be floating around expect more mediocrity and more spin. Happy or not so happy days. Don't hold your breath Polly, Arsenal's next manager will have to buy into the ' steady as she goes' model.

  111. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 21:27 #68170

    Hiccup, that reminds me I hope every one has given Polly's article the 10 out of 10 it deserves, it's actually worth 11 for the fact it's pissed a few of the resident wenger Krishna's off, but no surprise there.

  112. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 06, 2015, 21:16 #68169

    Hiccup wouldn't know a good post if it hit him on the head.

  113. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 20:41 #68167

    jw, good point ref judgement day, how long is it now since we heard the first judge me/him in May statement? How long is it since the first give him more/he needs more time comment? from the wengerites and we're still hearing it, Sad. Hiccup, great post.

  114. Mike Collins

    Mar 06, 2015, 20:30 #68166

    Polly's got Gooneritis just as much as we old fossils have, no doubt about it. But unlike us, she could witness another Golden Era when we've all moved on to the afterlife, which for some here will entail eternity with a Spurs season ticket, Soldado the captain, and AW in the seat next to you, as divine punishment for your cynicism.

  115. jjetplane

    Mar 06, 2015, 20:27 #68165

    9th tier parasite - who upset little old WESTIE. Horses not going too well .... We beat Pagham on Tuesday which would be like the non-competing Arsene FC winning at the Bridge. That ain't gonna happen and I also see WESTIE's bad bets Rodgers and Klopp are on the up again. Football hey .....

  116. Hiccup

    Mar 06, 2015, 20:18 #68164

    Looks like the AKB's are running for this year's General Election. Out canvassing in numbers tonight for Polly's vote. Bit of advice guys. Concentrate your efforts in the marginal seats where there's some wavering. Polly has already said 'give us something to shout about.' Your manifesto of 'success will come' needs a bit more validation. You don't have the figures to back this claim up with wenger at the helm. You won't see Cameron pissing around canvassing in Scotland this May. You'd be better off sending Westie to Goonerholic with your manifesto. Full of dead heads on their.

  117. jjetplane

    Mar 06, 2015, 20:06 #68163

    And there speaks a 'gooner' who never goes but he loves to google Arsenal history - plastic!

  118. Westlower

    Mar 06, 2015, 19:57 #68162

    There you go Polly, you've got to consider all points of view, the Good, the Baddie & the Ugly, plus JJ who's more of a 9th tier parasite (a wasp who keeps buzzing in your ear). WOB's love wallowing in self pity & discrimination, as Arsenal continually fail to meet their lofty expectations. They don't like the Owner or his son, the Board, CE Ivan Gazidis, the Manager, the Stadium, the Medical team, the Tourists (Foreign visitors) & certain individual players, especially injured ones. In fact there's not much they do like about AFC. Beats me why they still think of themselves as Gooners? Victory Through Harmony, not where the WOB's are concerned. They're more Discord Through Division.

  119. maguiresbeidge gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 19:55 #68161

    Exeter, it makes a change from f**k of down the lane.

  120. Hiccup

    Mar 06, 2015, 19:24 #68160

    Oh look, a last minute application form from coldsore boy. Oh I do love his positivity. Success will come? Hollow words that have been blurted out for the last 10 years and probably the next 10 years count so much more than the negativity of asking just what the hell is going on. Just who is spouting the drivel?

  121. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 19:22 #68159

    Polly, unfortunately that's what we've become and are now, a decent enough club, and not to be taken to seriously and we know why. And that's what this manager will be remembered for now, this will be his legacy, any thing else he had built up has been destroyed. But don't worry about Arsenal or it's Legacy it'll still be here when he's gone (although some would have you believe it would cease to exist, disappear into some hole or something, probably on a Tuesday) and so will us fans (although i'm not sure about the wenger ones I suppose they'll wait and see where he goes first before buying the shirt) and we'll see ourselves been taken seriously again with a manager up to the job.

  122. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 06, 2015, 19:20 #68158

    goonercolesyboy, if the last six posts were just 'drivel' then you should have no problem, using your reasoning powers, in demonstrating exactly why. Just choose a few specific points, then take them apart. Go on, go at it.

  123. jjetplane

    Mar 06, 2015, 19:12 #68157

    Scholsey in the Indy giving it the Arsenal lost their Mojo in 2004 and Ozil took the easy option signing up. Wenger talking to Keown (arse lick) on 5 live - pass the red and white sick bag .... Mental speeeeret blah di blah. Looks like the FA Cup is the new CL. Truly awful.

  124. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 06, 2015, 19:12 #68156

    There you have it Polly, the last six posts just some up the drivel that the anti brigade continue to post. When the change of manager comes let's see who cracks first...there isn't a positive bone in their body.

  125. Hiccup

    Mar 06, 2015, 18:57 #68155

    Plenty of advice and counter advice to take on board if you so wish Polly, as well as the usual dollop of patronising 'let me educate you dear' that we have come to expect. Also a dollop of 'stick with us as success is just round the corner.' Oh yes, and we are just a couple of signings away from making an assault on the title next season. Well believe you me Polly, us old 'ns on here have had this line rammed down our throats for the last 7 to 10 years. So nothing new there. But to ask what evidence is there for this will be just met with some of the nonsense to what we've witnessed on here today. No education or claims of naivety from me though. But I will compliment you on your article. My experience of probing questions and asking for better comes in the workplace. I may ask the question why can't we do this function differently like this, as it will make it more efficient. You will find those that are interested and looking to make improvements will listen and take on board such comments. But there will always be those who respond 'well we've always done it like that' and deem you as a threat. I call such people plodders. Happy to plod on as things are, as understandably, who wants the hassle of having to change whilst they're in a nice settled comfort zone. That's the current state of arsenal fc as it stands in my opinion. if I was a boss and looking to recruit, and the applicants were yourself, Westie and baddie, judging on today's job interviews I'd take you on straight away with your outlook and dynamism. Meanwhile for the other two plodders, it would be a case of "don't contact us, we'll contact you thanks."

  126. jeff wright

    Mar 06, 2015, 18:34 #68154

    The reason why the AKB, who are quite happy to call themselves that, try to pretend that those who do not share their devotion to Arsene are anti-Arsenal is because the reasons for blind faith and no criticism for Wenger is from an argumentative perspective not logically sustainable. So they use the old trick of loyalty to the cause for their excuse for blindly backing an inept and past it manager while accusing others who refuse to follow them in their nonsensical support for Wenger as being traitors to AFC . The fact that this is a lie is irrelevant to these AKB's you have more chance of getting sense out of a crew of Jehovah Witnesses who have rung your doorbell to pass on the good news that they can save you from damnation on the day of judgement than you do Arsene's devotees . Arsene's day of judgement in this world keeps getting postponed and it's not for wont of trying on his part that he somehow or other avoids disaster . If it's divine intervention or something more sinister at times is a matter for speculation .

  127. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 06, 2015, 18:22 #68153

    There is nothing in Polly's article to suggest she is considering not 'sticking with' Arsenal. She has simply requested a 'snap out of this ten year lull'. It is deeply patronising of ageing male commentators to suggest or insinuate that the problem is she's a 'young girl', or it's her 'want it now generation'. You guys are showing your true colours here, and it's rather telling. Can you not actually read? I don't know if it's stupidity or disingenuousness. Probably both, depending on who it is commenting.

  128. jjetplane

    Mar 06, 2015, 18:10 #68152

    What dull, boring old farts these AKBs are. Wenger out now! The Kids are Alright! Always were! Old WESTIE busy googling up Arsenal history. Anyone would think he knew it all! Hilarious! just what is wrong with competing? Plain weird, wide-eyed moonies .....

  129. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 06, 2015, 18:02 #68151

    I think WOBs are a more honest bunch than the AKBs. WOBs admit what they are. They want Wenger out. So they're the Wenger Out Brigade. So then the AKBs pretend it is something more - anti-Arsenal rather than just anti-manager. But the AKBs don't admit to being AKBs. You believe the current manager is the best man for the job. That means you believe Arsene Knows Best. Ergo, you're an AKB. But they don't own up to it, pretend their belief simply means you're pro-Arsenal. So they're dishonest on two levels.

  130. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 18:00 #68150

    Babu, or maybe if he pulled his head of his messiah's arse for long enough he might see daylight.

  131. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 06, 2015, 17:56 #68149

    At the end of the day Polly, you have to decide where your support lies and understand that there is no guarantee of winning trophys. Your heart should rule your head and not some overbearing posters on this anti ArsenalFC anti Arsene site. Your generation is full of want it now want it immediately. That ain't how it works, success will come just stick with the best football club in the world.

  132. BringBackDene

    Mar 06, 2015, 17:36 #68148

    I think we have the team that on its day could beat any team in the league, but we are still easy to beat by a team with the right commitment. When you look at the league fixtures can you feel confident of beating any team, not me. I think if Wenger had most of the Barcelona team to manage he would still struggle with tactics, that is over here, in Spain he would have got the push 3 years ago. Sorry Wenger please step aside as the board won't sack you.

  133. Westlower

    Mar 06, 2015, 17:31 #68147

    @Gaz, Tom Whittaker was manager from 1947-1956. In this period he won 2 1st division championships + 1 FA Cup, 1953 being his last success before his untimely death aged 58. His win to games played % was 47%. George Swindin 39% & Billy Wright 38% won nothing before Bertie Mee 45% was successful in 1970. Wenger in comparison games/win was 57% at May 2014. In the history of AFC no manager was ever sacked when the current team were laying 3rd in the league - why would they? Arsenal have never been a hire 'em, fire 'em club. Contrary to popular belief I'm not against a change of manager but we both know it's not going to happen before the end of the season, so my logic is to support the present incumbent. I won't be wailing if we change manager in the summer. This AKB nonsense is simply that, as it gives defectors a stick with which to beat fans who haven't joined the anti-Arsenal revolt.

  134. Gaz

    Mar 06, 2015, 16:42 #68146

    @Westlower: This 17 year drought you mentioned with such fondness earlier? Was there only the one manager at the Club during it then? We actually had five managers over this period with none of them either going more than four years without either winning a trophy or resigning/getting the sack. Thoughts?...

  135. Laikipian

    Mar 06, 2015, 16:34 #68145

    Why do English fans look down on foreigners who go watch at the Grove? I'm a Kenyan who'll most likely never watch Arsenal play live. But it bothers me seeing frequent match goers branding other fans as 'tourists' and 'fake foreign fans'.

  136. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 06, 2015, 16:27 #68144

    Polly, don't let a certain old fart with his own agenda confuse your thoughts too much. Wanting a change of direction in the club doesn't mean you stop supporting it. Ignore the disgraceful suggestion that to do other than unconditionally support the transient policies of the transient power brokers at AFC means you should support Man U. This is the addled thinking of the frightened elderly who will tell your their weakness is a strength.

  137. Westlower

    Mar 06, 2015, 16:13 #68143

    @Polly, I hope all the old farts peddling their own personal baggage are not confusing your own thoughts too much. When I was your age, England won the World Cup but Arsenal were in the same position as Aston Villa are today, bags of history but not performing as one would wish. We had one player, George Eastham in the successful England squad & that was as close as we came to winning something in 17 blank years. No League titles, no FA Cups, no League Cups, even worse we lost to a 3rd division team at Wembley. Today we sit 3rd in the PL & demand as we might success only occurs when the chemistry of the team clicks into place over a relatively short period of time. CFC & Man City were able to take a shortcut thanks to the millions poured into them before FFP took place. At this moment in time 3rd is the best we can hope for. Even that will be an achievement given the money spent at OT & the resurgence of Liverpool. I feel we are only two players away from having a championship side & as always it depends on them being available and within our budget. Some anti's on this site post negatives about the club in a feeble attempt to rid their own guilt of distancing themselves from the team when bad results happen. As one of our legends Bob Wilson commented the other day, support your club through thick & then because it's so much more rewarding when it all comes good. If you need a quick fix of glory hunting then Man U is the default club for the majority of supporters in England. The media speak about them in revered terms & only positive stories are broadcast on match days, the complete opposite to Arsenal when all our negatives are highlighted. If you're mentally strong stick with the Gunners because this isn't a club for the faint hearted.

  138. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 06, 2015, 16:04 #68142

    There's a general assumption that it's those who've never known anything but Wenger that are frightened of change, whilst it's those who've known other managers who aren't. However, we can see from this article and the resultant comments the reverse can also be the case.

  139. jjetplane

    Mar 06, 2015, 15:43 #68140

    BADDIE you keep saying how no one is 'down' wit de yout on here and jeez you are sounding two centries old there. We need lots more posters like POLLy on here and she certainly knows where it's at more than us oldies. Power to the yout! Chill out on a bit of electronica mate.

  140. Ron

    Mar 06, 2015, 15:24 #68139

    Naive and idealistic thinking is the privilege of the young Badarse and long may it last, its wonderful to have at Polly's age. Is your message there, not naive? You have a terrible problem with todays society and certainly have a problem with Pollys energy. Wanting her football team to show some mettle and challenge bears no relation to materialistically wanting the latest expensive techie gadget as your post implies. Its normal to want to see a Club fulfil its capability or at least genuinely try to do so. Whats far from normal is being told to get back in your box, youre a product of today and be thankful with what you see. I remain thankful my Dad didnt peddle such defeatist twaddle to me as a 19 year old, else id still be on the milk round. I likened you to Sir Thomas More the other day, to that add Oliver Cromwell and we know where both of their heads landed. To pass that tiresome message of surrender to a 19 yr old is unbelievable, though sadly its a message that many of the tarquins at The Emirates are rooted down with. AFC love them for it though!

  141. Badarse

    Mar 06, 2015, 15:01 #68137

    Hello Polly, thank you for the article. I think you are suffering from todayitus, with an added dose of Iwantitall. Sorry to seem rude, it's just my way of joking. When you are young you are impatient for everything, including 'success', it always appears just on the horizon, and it is-it's a mirage. Mental development is the ageing, not the body. Many young people fail to develop that organ as the years pass. Our world is blighted with this attitude, naïve thinking in an aged body, dinosaurs we call them this side of reality. Be reassured though, because soon it will be just your world, not our world as all these older ones fall off the edge into oblivion. Then everyone can agree with each other, moan about the lack of success, and continue ad infinitum until they too drop off the edge. Those following won't even know or care who Arsenal was.

  142. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 14:46 #68136

    Gaz, it'll be like a rebirth mate, Glenn, pumps his fists twice and sits down again, good one, and both at the same time too.

  143. jjetplane

    Mar 06, 2015, 14:19 #68134

    Nice one POLLY and you must be laughing at the spin Old WESTIE is still promoting - the lad is hilarious. If someone had said to me in the 60s one day this club will be coming fourth every season (horses for courses) I would have said 'big ****ing deal'..... Polly you and your generation need to be more vocal, use the media, everything you can to bring down this tedium. Boring enough to see it at my age. Heartbreaking for you. Welcome to the WOBS!

  144. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 13:38 #68132

    The generation that used to recall us as title contenders can't anymore either, and haven't for a long long time, and maybe they are starting to vote with their feet(not before time)and there's a reason for that alright, an old past it manager not up to the job of restoring us. And as such a young supporter who remembers nothing but OGL well done on seeing the problem you put older ones who should know better to shame. Good Article.

  145. Ron

    Mar 06, 2015, 13:27 #68131

    Nice post Polly. Pity 'Daylight' has intervened with his intellectual rigour. Its interesting that you youngsters are feeling as you do. The real problem is that what you're seeing and recognising now is a Club that many older fans refuse to see. While that remains the case 'decent Club but not to be taken seriously' will remain the Clubs trademark. Westie make s an offering to you now that because he saw a crock of mediocrity in his early years that it should be good enough for you. The fact is that his AFC then doesn't remotely resemble the AFC that you've got now. Back then AFC did what they were capable of. Now, they do what they prefer. Theres a massive difference. That stadium is full of passionless old and getting old, quite well heeled punters in it who sell you the same story. They're too old and have lost the drive and energy to seek better and the Clubs inertia remains as a result. As a youngster, you get right in there lass and demand they seek better if they want to justify retaining your support and patronage for the price they take from you and your freinds. Im pretty sure that youre Dad will be telling you similarly as he must be a child of the drab 70s and mid 80s i suspect.

  146. HowardL

    Mar 06, 2015, 13:04 #68130

    Hi Polly. Great to read views from someone younger on this Forum. From the description of his first Arsenal experiences Westlower and I sound like similar vintage. I waited 17 years for a trophy - via disasters at places like Peterborough, Blackpool and Swindon (at Wembley) but in a strange sort of way when we finally got there the journey seemed that much more worthwhile. Perhaps that's why one of my favourite memories is of 'Raddy' Radford hanging in the air for that goal against Anderlecht.

  147. Tony Evans

    Mar 06, 2015, 12:51 #68128

    Hi Polly - good to hear the views of a younger supporter. Here was me thinking it was just old grizzled types like me that were fed up to the back teeth with Wenger and Groundhog season following Groundhog season (with the exception of the FA Cup win - which we did our best to lose). I was lucky in that my first full season was 70/71 but after that it was pretty poor until GG took over - with the notable exception of Terry Neil's 'cup kings' in the late 70s. (although even then we only won one of the finals we got to)

  148. Westlower

    Mar 06, 2015, 12:27 #68127

    Polly, don't feel hard done by as your dads generation were spoiled by watching a very successful period in our history. My first 10 years of watching Arsenal in the flesh generated the following league positions: 11th, 10th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 7th, 9th, 4th, 12th. Not being dragged into a relegation dog fight was a relief. If someone had told me then that sometime in the distant future Arsenal would always finish top 4, I would have laughed at them. It was simply the stuff of dreams. Sadly these days some Gooners take our consistency for granted. The good times are waiting in the departure lounge and will be taking off shortly.

  149. Tony Porter

    Mar 06, 2015, 12:13 #68126

    I agree with you, Alsace. I was once nineteen (1961) and like Polly a committed Arsenal fan who only heard about how great we once were but the club tried - unsuccessfully - with a succession of managers to bring the glory back. I'm not convinced the same determination exists in 2015.

  150. Gaz

    Mar 06, 2015, 12:05 #68125

    Yep, theres at least one more contract to come after this one I reckon especially as he and kroenke both know a domestic cup trophy-however weak the competition-is more than enough to placate the majority of fans...

  151. Alsace

    Mar 06, 2015, 12:02 #68124

    Well Done Polly. It just goes to show that our lack of ambition is self evident, even to those who have known nothing else. I didn't see Arsenal win a trophy until 7 years after I first started attending, but it wasn't due to lack of trying. Terry Neill and Don Howe did their best since they were both Arsenal men. Having leadership which is used to and comfortable with mediocrity has not been a happy experience.

  152. Babu

    Mar 06, 2015, 11:52 #68122

    @ Gaz. Oh, and then another three years until 2020, because Arsene will surely sign another contract during the 2016/17 season. He has to win the Champions League before he will leave The Arsenal, that's a FACT, so you'd better all be praying for a 3-0 win in Monaco, and then the winner of Porto v. Basel in the next round! Win that one and we are three games away from the greatest day in 'New' Arsenal's History. Champions League Winners, and Wenger finally moving on. Come On You Gooners!

  153. Gaz

    Mar 06, 2015, 11:51 #68121

    Hi Babs! Can't come soon enough for me...

  154. Babu

    Mar 06, 2015, 11:38 #68120

    Oh, and Good Morning Gaz. Keep your spirits up. Only 2 and a half years to go until 2017.

  155. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 06, 2015, 11:32 #68119

    Daylight; you gotta stop smoking that crack.

  156. Vintage Gooner

    Mar 06, 2015, 11:29 #68117

    I think Polly needs to mature a little and then re-read this post. The suggestion that we don't win enough silverware to make the Emirates a passion-pit cannot have as its exemplars the headless chickens down the Seven Sisters Road and even less Crystal Palace!

  157. Babu

    Mar 06, 2015, 11:17 #68116

    @ Daylight: the straps on your headwand seem to be too tight. I would get an adult to loosen them for you - or tighten them. Whatever the 'adult' thinks is the best alternative.

  158. Avenell Road

    Mar 06, 2015, 11:17 #68115

    Enjoyed the article Polly. Hope you get to see Arsenal challenging at the top of the game soon. Those are the best days for any Gooner.

  159. TT

    Mar 06, 2015, 10:51 #68112

    Looks lets face it, fans wont be satisfied until we win it. All this nonsense about "challenging" for the title is pointless, yes we've ended up fourth and had a few battles for that for the best part of a decade but who really cares about finishing second, third or fourth? I dont. We finished 7 points off the top last season, that was a great improvement on previous years but we are still not regarded as challengers because we were obliterated in the big games. This year, could easily end up the same points adrift so whats the difference between finishing third and fourth? If some of you wanna take the anguish of missing out by a point as a positive by all means do so but the same people will then say if only we'd beat Hull at home. Our goal is only achieved by lifting the Premier League trophy.

  160. Wear Your Colours

    Mar 06, 2015, 10:34 #68111

    I agree we need to step out of this recent trophy-less lull. But I don't think we are far away. I like the shape of this current squad. I think we are only one or two good signings away from being Champions. Like 'Le Prof', I think we will win it again before the end of his tenure. So hang in there. you may be able to enjoy Emirates celebrating a trophy lift before too long! Then we will really learn what a good atmosphere at our new home can be like.

  161. Gaz

    Mar 06, 2015, 10:32 #68110

    I'm not suggesting this is the main reason but I honestly fell the sense of apathy surrounding the Club at the moment is having an even bigger effect on the lack of atmosphere presently. When Wenger leaves and the club takes on a new direction might we see a change of attitude amongst our fans. Or to put it another way it might wake some of them up again!!! :-)...

  162. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 06, 2015, 10:31 #68109

    Chris; dunno about a lot of younger people making more noise, chances are they'd be just as busy taking selfies and looking up on Instagram as they were with the game itself. It's a generation thing. As for the chanting, I see the FA are now going on about sexist chants to women officials etc. What next, pay £75 to sit quietly for 90 minutes, applaud politely, then file out in an orderly manner........oh hang on.

  163. chris dee

    Mar 06, 2015, 10:15 #68106

    I believe the reason the 'atmos' is ****e at the Emirates is the fact that the people who can most afford the eye watering season ticket prices are of the older generation who have more disposable income but are a bit embarrassed to really let rip. It's no coincidence that the atmosphere in Carling Cup matches at the Emirates is always far more boisterous that League matches as more of the 'common people',like myself, can get tickets. My memory might be wrong but I can remember youngsters,my self included (16-21 year olds)far outnumbering old gits on the old North Bank.And of course in those days you go could roll up with four or five mates all standing and shouting together But today kids in that age bracket are becoming less and less visable at the stadium.Imagine the whole bottom tier of the Emirates crowded with young enthusiastic gooners,then you would see an atmosphere.That is of course, if you are not thrown out for shouting nasty things like 'blast you,you horrible person John Terry'.

  164. glenn

    Mar 06, 2015, 10:12 #68105

    Good article Polly - I'm a good bit older than you but the atmosphere at Arsenal amongst the fans has changed over the last five years, certainly. There's a culture of mediocrity at Arsenal now, and when players come out in Feb saying 'it'll be a battle to get into the top four,' they're miles away from the fans. Personally I'm bored with this whole set-up. Bored of seeing Wenger stand up and pump his fists twice when we score, then sit down again. 4 wins against poor teams, then get beaten by a more motivated and better organised team/manager. Most fans have cottoned on now and refuse to get excited even when we go on a big run. Boring...but keep with it - when Wenger's gone and a winner comes in the passion and noise will return!

  165. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 06, 2015, 10:03 #68104

    Don't kin yourself thinking Highbury was some kind of a bear pit. The atmosphere there on many a game was like a morgue. Sorry but I don't buy into all this "white-hot atmosphere" crap. Selhurst Park and WHL (& Stoke's Britannia) are simply smaller old-style football grounds, where the fans are crammed into a smaller place than say OT or St James' Park, hence seeming to make more noise. If Palace were to move to a 60,000 seater ground the atmosphere there would be just like The Grove too.

  166. mark from aylesbury

    Mar 06, 2015, 9:40 #68101

    Polly - I think the Emirates is in dire need of finding its own history hence the indifference the nearest thing I can think of is an American Franchise club moved to Phoenix Arizona from Brooklyn or some such place. There was something about going to Highbury in the 70's with the last remnants of the double side. We were dire the crowds often small but the ground was soaked in history as a small boy you could feel it. I like to keep positive and think the ground will get that history. But it has to be under a new guy at the helm with players playing with real drive. Occasionally you have to suffer defeats. I remember Notts Forest knocking us out of the cup at Highbury in the 1980's 50k crowd the place was rocking. Wait a little longer, I reckon at most 2 more years and things will start to get interesting.

  167. Daylight

    Mar 06, 2015, 9:26 #68099

    Go and support Man City then pal, I've winger left we we'd b fighting for top 8. Gladioli and someone won't leave there jobs n Koop n Martinez are not in wingers league which has bn proven beyond doubt. We gear will win league in nxt 3 years n glory days will come back. Hea needs time to rebuild a top team after having to sell for so long