Arsenal fans are proud of their reputation, but it’s under threat

Chelsea physio subject of sexist chanting at the Bridge



Arsenal fans are proud of their reputation, but it’s under threat

Does Colin Lewin get the same abuse?


Speak to most Arsenal supporters and, anecdotally, they’ll assure you that our fanbase was one of the first to tackle in-house racism. The reasons given for this vary. Some say it’s because of the club’s inclusive policy on the pitch. Arsenal’s first black player, Brendon Batson, turned out for the club in 1971. To put this in context, Viv Anderson didn’t win his senior cap for England until 1978, Howard Gayle didn’t make an appearance for Liverpool until 1977, while Paul Canoville didn’t play for Chelsea until 1981. By the late ’80s, the Arsenal side was, of course, hugely mixed; Paul Davis, Rocky Rocastle, Michael Thomas and Kevin Campbell all became crucial players for the club. Since then, footballers of all origins have played at Highbury and the Emirates – too many to mention. All these players represented integration on the pitch, many became heroes on the terraces; accordingly, or so the anecdotes go, racism died a death amongst the fans.

Others would claim that supporters from minority backgrounds made the difference themselves. Folk legends like Dainton Connell are said to have made a big impact on fellow Gunners, advertently or inadvertently. This may have kept overt discrimination from the stands; Connell is meant to have done so quite literally, stamping out any hint of racist literature at Highbury – and at a time (in the ’70s and ’80s) when it was still freely distributed at other grounds by organisations like the National Front and the BNP.

Add to these anecdotes the general ethnic mix of North London, plus the social, religious and political variety of Highbury, Islington, Camden, Haringey, Barnet, Enfield, Wembley and so on – of all the local areas that support our fanbase – and I think the picture of Arsenal’s enduring inclusivity becomes clear. The fans and the club have long been diverse and, by and large, our reputation on this front is a good one. That’s something I, and the vast majority of others, are proud of.

More recently, Arsenal fans have been some of the first to tackle other forms of discrimination. The Gay Gooners are a pioneering group of LGBT and pro-LGBT supporters established in early 2013; they’ve worked with the club to campaign against footballing homophobia, they’ve added their banner to the many others draped over the Emirates and they have – again, by and large – received an encouraging reaction at the stadium and beyond. Likewise, the Emirates feels like a particularly welcoming arena for female fans. This might be my own form of anecdote but, as far as I can tell, the crowd is conspicuously and increasingly mixed in terms of gender; there must be multiple factors in this but, to speculate, it may well be chiefly down to the fanbase’s open and welcoming approach elsewhere. Taken altogether, all of this contributes to Arsenal’s massive popularity. All of this equates to a club that, to reiterate, makes us proud.

This is perhaps why it felt like a genuine shock to see Arsenal fans cited, amongst others, in last week’s Premier League sexism storm. Footage obtained by the BBC revealed that a small but vocal group of away supporters directed graphic abuse at Chelsea club doctor Eva Carneiro during this season’s match at Stamford Bridge. With one bloke filming, and a crowd of others chanting, she, as a top-flight medic trying to do her job, was met at the side of the pitch with loud and doubtlessly audible chants of ‘Have you ever had a Gooner up you’re a**e?’.

I’ll be the first to say that I find this acutely embarrassing – and absurd. It’s embarrassing because it gives a terrible account of Arsenal fans, and an extremely public one. It’s absurd because it goes against that inclusivity which has come to characterise the club.

How many female Arsenal supporters were within earshot of the chanting, and how many of them – our own fans – felt intimidated or unhappy with it? How many of those doing the chanting have gone to games with their wives, girlfriends, mothers, sisters and daughters et cetera – and how many think that those women would have appreciated their behaviour? Similarly, how many of those blokes realise that Arsenal have one of the most successful female football teams in the world, and that women have made as much of a contribution to Arsenal on the pitch as they have off it? The thoughtlessness of their conduct is almost unbelievable.

This is not to say that such an incident makes any difference to the overall ethos of the fans. Those caught abusing Carneiro represent a miniscule minority of those who support Arsenal. However, they have personally dragged the club into the media narrative of sexism in football. It is possible that, owing to their stupidity, perceptions of Arsenal fans from the outside might change.

Considered alongside reports that a group of supporters sang homophobic songs during Arsenal’s 2013 FA Cup tie with Brighton, as well as occasional, isolated accounts of racism – no one set of fans is entirely free of it – this sort of incident becomes more than just a blot on the fanbase’s admirable record; it becomes a threat to Arsenal supporters’ longstanding reputation. That reputation is well-loved, hard-earned and built on years of open, non-discriminatory attitudes. Nevertheless, it might only take a few well-publicised wrongs to do it lasting damage.

Twitter@W_F_Magee

https://theluxuryfan.wordpress.com


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  1. Bracknell Tom

    Mar 18, 2015, 15:18 #68815

    100% agree having been a supporter for nearly 70 years along with Mum, sister, girlfriends and wife attending matches with me, I would find (and have done so) such behaviour offensive and embarrassing. We don't need it.

  2. Badarse

    Mar 17, 2015, 13:19 #68703

    Moscow Gooner, I have only ever heard or seen a right wing individual refer to any concerned situation under discussion as being a 'politically correct' one, and then in abbreviation terms as in 'PC', always in a negative tone, and often spat out. Thank goodness 'PC' triumphed a long time ago or kids would still be crawling up chimneys-now it's just a secret retreat and pastime for those like jj and Jeff Wright.

  3. Moscow Gooner

    Mar 17, 2015, 11:05 #68699

    It has to be pointed out that THFC fans adopted the 'Y' word themselves, displayed Israeli flags etc etc. They can dish out all sorts of abuse themselves to the likes of Sol C - lynching references etc. - yet shrivel up in a little PC victimmhood ball when the 'Y' word is thrown back at them. In general I think an extreme - 'Guardianista' - PC view prevails amongst large sections of the Arsenal support today; hence the comments on chanting at Brighton etc. A line has to be drawn, and sometimes idiots go well over it, but taken too far the PC element is one factor turning the Emirates into a sterile, tourist friendly, bowl. Keep politics of all kinds out of football!

  4. julesd

    Mar 16, 2015, 5:43 #68634

    JJ -May I correct you, I haven't been in the cupboard, I've been in the kitchen, it's been hell in there!

  5. Ozzie

    Mar 16, 2015, 2:24 #68631

    Without a word of a lye - I'm as straight as a die - and the way I'll stay - is happy and gay - 'til the day I dye

  6. Chris

    Mar 15, 2015, 20:55 #68623

    Arseneknewbest - When was the last time you heard someone say 'gay' meaning 'happy'?

  7. jjetplane

    Mar 15, 2015, 15:33 #68606

    BADARSE and Cool is like really 'not sick' yer get me cuz ....

  8. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 15, 2015, 13:46 #68600

    jj, well it is mothers day, and it's a long time to the next one.

  9. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 15, 2015, 13:44 #68599

    Hey Chris - are you badarse's grandson? You know, the one he mentioned in 72241. You and badarse mean to say that the same words sometime have different meanings, e.g. the word "cool" as the great badarsio kindly took the trouble to explain. But to suggest that words evolve would mean that their old meaning no longer exists, a bit like there are no longer any cro-magnons kicking about because humans have evolved. So sorry mate but I feel honour bound to challenge some of the great man's apparent expertise in absolutely everything. So should you.

  10. jjetplane

    Mar 15, 2015, 13:18 #68595

    Julesd is back - only took about 3 months and obviously not aware that the WOBs are owning the Utd win deservedly while AkBs gone missing (see CHRIS the really clever one ...) are have to chew the last CL crust. Took you a few months of sitting in a cupboard to think up 2 lines. Julesd knows hey! ....

  11. Chris

    Mar 15, 2015, 9:00 #68582

    Arseneknewbest - Sorry mate but Badarse is correct. You have embarrassed yourself by being so keen to go for the man, not the ball, that you have forgotten what game you are playing! I'm no linguist but even I know that the meaning of words evolve all the time. Baddie's posts may not be to your taste but he's no fraud. If anyone is, it's you for incorrectly trying to take him down over this. And the scientific names of animals aren't latin, by the way. Try sticking to what you DO actually know about in future, whatever that may be....

  12. julesd

    Mar 15, 2015, 8:05 #68581

    The Wob's must have put their prams & toys into storage as the silence is deafening. Can you hear the Wobbies sing, no, no....

  13. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 15, 2015, 6:03 #68580

    Our esteemed neighbours use the Y word to describe themselves don't they? Oh the irony. As for sexism in football, all the pc brigade can f##k off for all I care. What next, a man can't compliment a woman on her appearance?

  14. Ozzie

    Mar 15, 2015, 1:59 #68579

    From a far off stand point I find your views on societal changes both intriguing and comical and am reminded of my favourite piece of Shakespeare that of: "All the world's a stage....." A little bit of worldly knowledge later and we find we really know nothing. Oh, hang on, didn't the Gooners just have another win and the filthy rich City just lose to Burnley? And now you're talking about the double? Crikey, this WOB may get egg on his face yet.

  15. Royal Green Jackets

    Mar 15, 2015, 0:59 #68578

    As the editor has raised the so called "white elephant", I wonder if in any way it's related to the Jewish state of Israel being hated by so many? What with all its war crimes and fascist oppression and so on. Just a thought.

  16. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 14, 2015, 20:11 #68577

    Badarse - nah mate, I'm still not buying your pseudo-intellectual hallucinations. You are to etymology what Sam Allardice is to sophisticated football. And latin isn't dead - ask any of your coterie of lawyer friends, zoologists or greengrocers. Sic transit gloria...just like OGL today, I'm having the three points you old fraud.

  17. jjetplane

    Mar 14, 2015, 19:18 #68576

    Funny thing is the middle class boys are retraining as painter and decorators, drinking Tetleys, eating Ginsters and reading the Sun. It's another heap of post-colonialism where hyper irony becomes the new reality for blokes called Josh. On the other hand lairy coke-addled twats from a Harrow are the new ultras/old ultras leaving the dispossessed who said bye to the PL when the ecstasy ran out and the lager went Mexican. By the new reckoning looks like Arsenal are up for a domestic double and someone please come on here and say they are 'living the dream.' Baby squads hey!

  18. Realist

    Mar 14, 2015, 18:43 #68575

    Stevie- I'm afraid you'll find the Arsenal fanbase of 2015 is full of your guardian reading, latte drinking, humourless types who love nothing better than to spend their free time being offended on behalf of those of aren't remotely offended at all, and creating division where there was none before. Working class football culture at Arsenal died 20 years ago and it's not coming back.

  19. A Cornish Gooner

    Mar 14, 2015, 14:28 #68574

    An Arsenal supporter to be proud of: Falmouth PC Andy Hocking. Lifelong Gooner. RIP Andy. Just Google to see what I mean.

  20. Badarse

    Mar 14, 2015, 13:53 #68573

    My grandson just read my reply Arseneknewbest and said it was, 'Well sick!'

  21. Badarse

    Mar 14, 2015, 13:28 #68572

    Arseknewbest thank you for your view, but it is an incorrect one. You may criticise what I post, the style, and certainly my view of things but I am embarrassed for your misconception of etymological evolutions, and in denying them. It is a fact my friend, you are at a keyboard, check it out, then we begin from an understanding of sorts. Words are used, often one is hijacked if you like and used by a group, generally the young possibly, certainly the vibrant sections of society-it is why I state the clearly understood term, 'A dead language' , as in LAtin. English is alive, in rude health, (and that doesn't mean not wearing knickers), and very vibrant, growing phenomenonaly, and ever changing, sorry to disappoint. As for using Orwell's writing to support your argument it misfired. I have read all of Orwell's work and is a loved author, I know how to interpret much of what he was trying to say. A word like 'cool' has a meaning- low temp, then an offshoot develops-unfriendliness, then in it's informal state until it's augmentation into that OED you proudly brandish,(I do too), it describes as-fashionably impressive, as used by the young, and what I am being right now, 'very cool'. Cool can be a verb-cool the temp, an adjective-a cool drink, a noun-cool of the night. As for the third form writing, this was my favourite year at school, and is my favoured position this season for Arsenal. Peace chum, and three points please.

  22. Stevie

    Mar 14, 2015, 12:57 #68571

    what a joke that Arsenal fans feel that us Brighton fans would find 'we can see you holding hands ' offensive . That is so laughable and to PC , blimey this is football not netball , seriously grow up , we can take it ( and frequently do !!!!!) . I think you will find the writer is a journo and you are part of his project .

  23. Alan

    Mar 14, 2015, 10:38 #68569

    Those of you who know me from the world of sport will know that I like having a bit of a chat with brawny men on the rugby field and, er, having a bit of a chat with the soft fair waif-like moist creatures who you find in ladies' sports. Please, don't write in saying that's sexist... er, it's not.

  24. Let's give Steve Walford a run out for the last 10 minutes...

    Mar 14, 2015, 10:00 #68568

    To quote the great Nigel Tufnel, "what's wrong with being sexy?"

  25. Ozzie

    Mar 14, 2015, 9:38 #68567

    :-) A rose by any other name is still a rose. Monday you will be saying Arsenal rose to the challenge but their will still be rows of AKBs whinging

  26. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 14, 2015, 8:38 #68566

    Badarse - good to see some others on here also challenging some of your duff theories about language and linguistics. New words come (and go), but their meanings don't change or evolve as you suggest. That's what dictionaries are for. Your half-cooked musings remind me of Winston's friend in 1984 whose job it was to remove words from a dictionary. It was Orwell's blunt way of describing how dictatorships stifle creativity. I always saw the point but after reading some of your material on here, I'm beginning to wonder if a thinned down OED might indeed be the way forward. In other words, I sometimes wonder if you sit with a random word generator that you feel obliged to use to construct your ideas. I know you're old enough to know better, but a lot of your stuff reads like third form composition. It neither impresses nor hits the mark most of the time. Try some good old plain English matey. Some interesting fixtures this weekend - let's hope they all go our way...

  27. Ozzie

    Mar 13, 2015, 22:29 #68565

    Hi Hiccup, good to read someone who still has that ole simple English wit and is not all dee fensive :)

  28. John F

    Mar 13, 2015, 20:32 #68564

    I did not look at the date properly. Survey was 2014 I am not sure if Chelsea are still top after recent advents they might be really popular now.

  29. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 13, 2015, 20:31 #68563

    CGO, it's a pity TOF didn't/doesn't take his quotes seriously,(but as we know only to well he never does) but I suppose just like a lie if you tell enough of them and often enough you'll believe them yourself.

  30. John F

    Mar 13, 2015, 20:22 #68562

    Interesting to read today that Chelsea are the most disliked club voted by other fans followed by utd, and stoke .Swansea are the most popular we are ninth which is not bad for a big club.

  31. God

    Mar 13, 2015, 19:45 #68561

    I think you're getting confused with Mel. Griff's still alive.

  32. Hiccup

    Mar 13, 2015, 19:04 #68560

    The removal of AKBism that is rife in the crowd should be higher on the agenda than this! Ozzie, egg all over your face I do believe. Looks like the cricket lads have turned a corner!

  33. Badarse

    Mar 13, 2015, 18:26 #68559

    I know it's untrue too God, by the way, how is the Great Griff?

  34. God

    Mar 13, 2015, 17:42 #68558

    "You can't compare racism and what sex a person is to being a homosexual which is a lifestyle choice" Being gay is a lifestyle choice? Really? Even I don't believe that.

  35. Badarse

    Mar 13, 2015, 17:40 #68557

    Sibling of Typical Manc Fan: Alright Gary?-Lineker: Oh are you..?-STMF: Yeah bro of are kid, Gary.-L: You're the Liam to his Noel.-STMF: Fookin' right I am, bastud Etihad bastuds.-L: So do you want to add anything about your team?-STMF: Oh aye, It's all fookin' bo lax, Gary.-L: Is that it? Your brother said much the same.-STMF: Well it's right innit...Tripe and onions!-L: I'm not sure, is it?-STMF: Aye course it is are Gary...your ears stick out. I thought it was just done for a laugh for the crips ads.-L: Crisps!,-STMF: Yeah crips...Eccles cakes!-L: Are you OK?- Yeah touch of Turrets innit Gary?-L: Look you haven't got anything to add, have you?- STMF: Yeah that fookin' bastud ref robbed us, southern twat.-L: Don't think he was biased.-STMF: Don't know about his sexuality Gary but he was a right can't, alright?-L: OK we are winding this interview up now, so thanks and goodnight.-STMF: Cheers are Gary, say hi to that can't Hansen, and that twat Shearer...Black pudding!-L:Sure you are OK?-STMF: Oh aye I can get over me Turrets with a song Gary, see ya. Whoa black pudding bam a lam, whoa black pudding bam a lam...

  36. Bard

    Mar 13, 2015, 16:51 #68556

    This article has certainly stretched the minds of the faithful. Some seriously thoughtless rubbish has been posted from 'its only a laugh' to 'the worlds gone PC'. Im not sure whether to laugh or cry at the mentality behind these comments. They are largely 'offensive' rather then 'offensive'. I think i need to go and lie down in a dark room and please no offensive suggestions.

  37. jeff wright

    Mar 13, 2015, 13:51 #68555

    Hi Berry, 'offensive' is a polyseme a word with two or more meanings.So Wenger is correct to use it to describe attacking play . You are right though about Leeds players being offensive in the meaning of the word regarding their attitudes toward match officials and other aspects of football.... Wenger is more suspect in his use of other words and phrases though such as 'spirit' and 'mental strength' heappears to be genuinely confused about what these things actually are.

  38. Chris Finch

    Mar 13, 2015, 13:22 #68554

    How can I be sexist? My mother was a woman

  39. Ozzie

    Mar 13, 2015, 11:13 #68552

    Sensational news just to hand: Cricket - England defeats Afghanistan.

  40. Hi Berry

    Mar 13, 2015, 10:23 #68551

    Regarding the ever-changing English language....does anyone else wince when they hear talk of 'offensive' players. I may be wrong but think our very own AW is mainly responsible for the increasing use of this term, even to the point where English players/pundits who should know better use it regularly now. When I was a boy the term was attacking players and offensive was reserved for Leeds United.

  41. Charlie George Orwell

    Mar 13, 2015, 9:36 #68550

    These posts on the ever-evolving English language are very interesting. Can anyone tell me how Wenger’s quote: 'At some clubs success is accidental. At Arsenal it is compulsory.' developed into: ‘I wouldn’t mind if Arsenal were 2nd for 20 years.’?

  42. Badarse

    Mar 13, 2015, 9:20 #68549

    Lineker: So Typical Manc Fan what do you think of the game?-TMF: Well Gary I thought it was a load of fookin' bo lacks, know what I mean. That German twat van Gaal is just a rub out, alright Gary?-L: What about the diving?-TMF: It's part of the game Gary, all these southern softies like that tosser Wengler trying to change it, it's for men, alright.-L: And women.-TMF: Oh aye, but manly women, are kid.-L: Some are very feminine.-TMF: Listen Gary, you trying to be a clever clogs? If are kid hears you he'll slice yer, he's the Liam to my Noel, Etihad bastuds.-L: OK so where does your season go now, people saw the team's disarray live on TV?-TMF: Don't mention TV Gary, bastuds!-L: But it was TV which gave you the financial leg up, you'd be miles behind Arsenal without it.-TMF: Yeah well chuck, suppose we need it now with these moneybags tossers like the Etihad bastuds and the Chavvy cants.-L: A little bitter are you?-TMF: Make mine a Boddington's Gary, ha ha, geddit, are kid? Off to turn over the local Offy now, see you later Gary, say good on yer to the Nevilles Gary, alright?

  43. Westlower

    Mar 13, 2015, 9:13 #68548

    We are rapidly following the American PC lifestyle. Without the chanting & singing there would be no atmosphere at football grounds. That doesn't make it right or wrong it's just the way it is. As long as a sense of humour is contained within the chanting most football fans accept it as part of the territory. Back in our Highbury days there were a group of Gooners who came out with many witty original songs. It's part of our DNA. Sitting next to the way support in the Westlower was the perfect spot to hear the opposition fans retaliating with their own songs. One of the more original ones was when Eagle fans were very angry that Wrighty left Palace to join Arsenal. 'Ian Wright is illegitimate, he ain't got no birth certificate, he's just an Arsenal bast**d.'

  44. Badarse

    Mar 13, 2015, 8:51 #68547

    Thanks Will. Edification for those who may have learnt quite a bit and think it's enough-it never is. Latin is a dead language, not used by a nation so it's words and grammar are locked in the past, unchanging. English is a live language constantly changing and evolving by a myriad of causes. To want to pick and choose which is accepted and isn't, or how they entered the language is blinkered and rather naive. Words constantly change their meanings by usage, yes people do it as no other life form can, though AI is possibly about to enter the arena of change. Some examples: Nice meant Silly: Silly meant worthy, then weak, then foolish: Awful meant worthy of awe: Naughty meant Naught/Nought, then evil, now badly behaved. Lesson over, it's playtime...' Oh no, jj has weed in the sandpit again, and wiped his bogies on the wall!'

  45. Dave Spart

    Mar 13, 2015, 8:05 #68546

    How dare you say Good Morning when it is perfectly obvious that to many people in this world it is the afternoon. Or evening. I hope you're 'proud' of yourself. You people make me sick...

  46. Ozzie

    Mar 13, 2015, 7:31 #68545

    Good morning people! This could be the weekend the Arsenal consolidate with Liverpool at Swansea, Chel$ea v Southampton, Manure v Spuds, Burnley v City. Go Gooners!

  47. Ozzie

    Mar 13, 2015, 2:12 #68544

    "Words change their meanings constantly?" Rubbish! PEOPLE change words - to suit their own interests, to indoctrinate. As for living in the dark ages, BADARSE, I am very much in the now but that does not mean I have to accept every concoction that is dished up in a different guise. As for language evolving - what has bollocks evolved into these days? I c y r u kidding me bro? b u self lol :-)

  48. nickf

    Mar 13, 2015, 0:15 #68543

    Ok Marks, just so we're clear if Arsenal sing something offensive it's banter, if Chelski do it, it not.

  49. Will Magee

    Mar 12, 2015, 22:55 #68542

    Badarse, 'Bridging differences... it's why banners are draped, icons are held aloft and noise is made, it draws attention, and hopefully understanding' is an excellent summary.

  50. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2015, 22:45 #68541

    Maybe if we had Eva Carnerio and/or one or two of her assistants at Arsenal instead of some of the amateurs we have we wouldn't have as many injuries and sick notes. But there again if OGL's reaction to a woman interviewer is anything to go by.

  51. Marks

    Mar 12, 2015, 21:57 #68540

    I know three women who were there when that was sung by a handful of supporters , they thought it was banter , a joke , a laugh . They did not take offence . Stop getting your knickers in a twist . You cannot compare that with certain songs sung by chelsea fans , good job arsenal didnt shout something fattish !

  52. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2015, 21:00 #68539

    Staying on the subject of people taking things (or themselves) to seriously nowadays, i remember one of our celebrity fans Dale Winton who used to get, do you like it up the Arsenal, when ever he was spotted at Highbury and he used to take it well (no pun intended and no PC brigade please)even standing up giving everybody a wave to a great cheer and round of applause, top gooner.

  53. jjetplane

    Mar 12, 2015, 20:36 #68538

    Cheers BADDDIe Wilde is a god soul of sorts but Mr Fry on the cusp of it and well rewarded - sounds familiar. Punk song 'we're so young and innocent/if I saw a broken bottle I know'd I'd feint/'cause when I'm in a fight/I always lose .... The life of true heroes .... Funny old week.

  54. Badarse

    Mar 12, 2015, 19:46 #68537

    I have often thought that our lifespans are too short. If we as humans lived 5000 years we now would just be children, with a long way to go, a lot to learn. However in many ways we have to hit the ground running. My upbringing was much like any other's, many mistakes, attitude changed by some bright people along the way-as Desiderata says, '...even the dull and the ignorant-they too have their stories.' So you can learn from anything and anyone, if you have the will. We have to take on board the good sense and make the right decisions almost immediately. It is only through conflict and meeting real life in the raw, face to face with confusion and bridging differences. It's why banners are draped, icons are held aloft and noise is made, it draws attention, and hopefully understanding. The most poignant of posts is jj's. Reread it guys. Oscar Wilde-gay and brilliant; Stephen Fry-ditto.

  55. John F

    Mar 12, 2015, 19:20 #68536

    I heard a radio 5 phone in about this very subject.The general comments from fans from all over was thankfully that sexist,racist chants at games are rare now days and seemed to be self policed by fans.Some complaints on the phone in about swearing at matches did strike me as being over the top I think some people want a Tennis crowd atmosphere at matches.On the Gay gooner banner when I first saw it I thought there must be a section in the stadium especially for Gay gooners. I didn't know you had to sit in parts of the ground due to your sexual preferences,how do they know, is it encoded on my red membership card. What if you are bi can you sit anywhere.Be good for Ron if they had a section for the beer farters,next to the away end would be good.I'm with Ry who cares what you are as long as you support the Arsenal

  56. Will Magee

    Mar 12, 2015, 19:15 #68535

    Marks, your guess is wrong - I fit none of the groups mentioned. As for singing, I don't remember 'Have you ever had a Gooner up your a**e?' being one of our traditional chants. Read the third-from-last paragraph, then provide some answers.

  57. jjetplane

    Mar 12, 2015, 18:22 #68533

    'oooh - it's a corner' - what the ****s' that all about then? Anuvver one 'She wore a yellow ribbon' - basically a load of blokes showing solidarity with universal sisterhood or is just more bleeding patriarchal oppression through the sirenic melody of High Romanticism. Mine's a lager! I guess you want a shandy .... Then there's Maureen - objectification through orientalist motif questioning quasi-eastern masculinity trait systems ... One for the road?

  58. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2015, 17:51 #68531

    Good post Jamerson, and from Tony Evans when he says people are to easily offended nowadays, now i's certainly not condoning racism or any form of it (I am Irish after all) but this PC, it's gone mad the slightest thing could and indeed no doubt has been construed as racism anti Semitic or whatever in the past. Take a very good point made by Badarse in his post, the word pride, i'm sure like himself none of us has a any problem with someone else's sexual orientation, (or colour) but all it takes is a member of the PC brigade to spout so your proud to be straight? well does that mean your anti gay? what have you got against been gay? and suddenly your a racist, ridiculous.

  59. Bard

    Mar 12, 2015, 17:41 #68530

    Marks; if the only choice is between sterility or mindless sick chants then I'll take sterility all day long. Put your headphones on if you want some noise.

  60. Alsace

    Mar 12, 2015, 17:24 #68529

    There is a section of the away support that are synaptic amputees. The sort of people who chant that they are going to Wembley in the middle of a cup tie at Old Trafford with a one goal margin. The sort of people who chant the disgusting unemployed song against Everton. These people simply arent that bright. Not bright enough to support our club, anyway. As to anti-semitism, it's mostly anti- tottenhamism, for well rehearsed reasons, notably the prevalance of jewish arsenal supporters. However, it's got to stop. Again, only the brain dead do it.

  61. Marks

    Mar 12, 2015, 17:13 #68528

    Will Magee , some sort of modern do goer ! PC gone mad , trying to make a story out of nothing . I get fed up with so called Arsenal fans going on about sexism , homophobia , anti semetic chanting and i would guess you belong to one of those groups ? Stick to the emirates as v middlesbro there was no singing , it was sterile just how you want it .

  62. NickF

    Mar 12, 2015, 16:41 #68527

    Unfortunately, like most clubs, we have our fair share of idiots as well. Also, I don't know where CB sits, but I find it difficult to believe that a season ticket holder of "many years" has never heard anything anti-semetic.

  63. jjetplane

    Mar 12, 2015, 16:34 #68526

    Well one of my all-time favourite writers is James Baldwin who was black and gay and a bit of a ****ing genius. Some good posts here and i reckon North Lundun has always been pretty cool. Even as a kid in a skinhead gang we had a few Carribean lads who were best mates and fellow kid gunners. One of the best mates I ever had was gay but is no longer with us as also is one of my oldest black friends who died as the result of a racist attack. I can also see where JamErSON is coming from and I am no goody two shoes on most subjects but I reckon the greater difference in a crowd of football fans the better. There is nothing more boring than being surrounded by 100s of blokes of the same Mythical persuasion and colour. i am a massive fan of rap too so I am well up for the N word in that medium and I guess context is what a lot of stuff is about. All very well for the middle classes to drone on about things they usually only know in some abstract academic sense and to experience life in the raw. Anyway - Alan Hollinghurst - gay white English writer who's almost as good as Tolstoy! Come on rip roarers - whoever you are! Chelsea - you gotta laugh ....

  64. Badarse

    Mar 12, 2015, 14:53 #68524

    I am an etymologist and love words, their roots, differences and the music they bring and the pictures they paint. The English language is the largest, and most beautiful and expressive of all, and the reason is the foreign influences it has encountered throughout this islands history. Words change their meanings constantly, it is an evolutionary development. It doesn't seem right to those used to certain sentence structures and comprehensions.They fade away if a fad or linger and become absorbed into this live and ever growing language if used often enough and accepted by majority usage. To complain that a word has lost it's meaning or been hijacked by a group is relevant but a little like trying to hold back the tide. Recognise this and Move out of the dark ages. My gripe is the use of words when not fully expressing. Gay Pride? I dislike pride, the word is overused and isn't a particularly nice emotion when generalised-I have no problem whatsoever with the word gay. If it is OK to be proud of being gay it is also OK to be proud of being straight-then we are all proud of what, being who we are or existing? I wish the Gay Gooners would identify and post, it is the only way to enlighten and remove barriers-by familiarity. Sexism, racism are ugly, but prejudice in any shape is intolerable.

  65. Gus Caesar

    Mar 12, 2015, 14:37 #68523

    Comfortable to hear or not, the 'Y' word is racism pure and simple. I hear it used at every single home and away game I go to and have done since I started going in 1987 through to today. Whilst we like to think of ourselves as a more enlightened bunch than most, we're really not - we have the same mindless minorities as every other club. There should be no room for discrimination in 2015 and I would welcome banning orders for anyone caught abusing another human being. Time for people to grow up and isolate the minority.

  66. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2015, 14:02 #68522

    Charlie George Orwell, I didn't say that, but your certainly right. lol.

  67. preston

    Mar 12, 2015, 13:45 #68520

    All seems rather juvenile and the result of too much lager. Seems anyone now with a smartphone can record some boisterous behaviour and cry crisis to the media. Re anti-Semitism Arsenal is one of the most pc grounds and even the y word is pretty limited. We have come a long way from burning Stars of David and gas chamber songs and rightly so but unless only the sober are admitted there will be throwback moments.

  68. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 12, 2015, 13:37 #68519

    And we thought the only one arsene wenger chant was bad.

  69. Tony Evans

    Mar 12, 2015, 13:08 #68518

    On a wider point I do think people are too easily offended nowadays (or maybe the media are on their behalf) and that is one of the reasons why so much of todays comedy is not very funny. I am not saying we should go back to the days of Alf Garnett and Love thy Neighbour but in my view we have gone far too far the other way and you daren't say anything even slightly risqué without someone declaring you either racist, sexist, fattist or goodness knows how many other 'ists!

  70. Bard

    Mar 12, 2015, 12:52 #68517

    interesting and important article. Whilst agreeing with Jamie we can go overboard, I do think we need to be thoughtful and vigilant. I went with a Chav supporting mate to the Bridge last season and was amazed. We had expensive seats but it was a trip back in time to the dark ages. Couldnt believe how offensive some of the chanting was and no one batted an eyelid. We are a lot better but thats not an excuse for complacency.

  71. Tony Evans

    Mar 12, 2015, 12:33 #68515

    The 'Y' word is the only offensive chanting I have heard (which in my younger days I did join in with - much as Ron said) and I think overall Arsenal fans aren't too bad. Mind you I don't go much now so whether things have got worse since I used to go regularly I don't know.

  72. Charlie George Orwell

    Mar 12, 2015, 12:28 #68513

    ‘Jesus’, said Paddy. ‘This racist thing is a minefield.’

  73. Captain Frank

    Mar 12, 2015, 12:20 #68512

    Interesting article Will. Thanks. Your mention of Dainton - The Bear as he was better known - reminded me of a great story I was told of a trip to Leeds back in the early 80s. Leeds was a core NF area and they had a roadside stand en route to the ground to support a membership drive. On an Arsenal visit to Elland Road, Dainton left the group of supporters he was walking with to cross over the road and visit the stand. You can imagine the looks on the faces of those manning the stand when a huge black guy approached and asked them for a membership form. He responded to their startled expressions by telling them how much he hated n*ggers (apologies for use of the word, but hope you understand why it's appropriate in context). They didn't have a clue how to respond and Dainton went on his way chuckling. RIP The Bear.

  74. mark from aylesbury

    Mar 12, 2015, 12:09 #68511

    Alex - Agree awful stuff. How long ago did that occur?

  75. Will Magee

    Mar 12, 2015, 11:53 #68510

    Mark, really interesting contribution. Alex, likewise; that sort of incident is truly horrendous.

  76. Alex

    Mar 12, 2015, 11:41 #68508

    The worst day of my Arsenal-supporting career was having to endure an hour of Holocaust chants from Arsenal fans on a train to Blackburn Rovers. We lead, but there remains much to do.

  77. mark from Aylesbury

    Mar 12, 2015, 11:36 #68507

    Historically Fascist support could not get a grip in North London. Hence Islington and Camden were non Fascist whereas Hoxton (ok N1 postcode) Through Bethnal Green and also areas such as Rotherhithe and Bermondsey were hotspots until greater gentrification and movement of local communities effectively wiped it away. When I lived in Rotherhithe and looked through a local picture library I was astounded to see a Mosely meeting from the 1930's with a gathering of a 1000 blackshirts in Bermondsey with the Sieg Heil salutes. Frightening stuff. Back in the 90's Rotherhithe pubs still ran unofficial colour bans whereas North London always felt more free and happily multi cultured. It should be noted though that Millwall rejected the NF in a meeting held in the Old Kent Road during the early 90's whereas Chelsea allowed Combat18 to develop among their supporters. The touch of history does count we should be happy that the area that Arsenal were based seemed to be more inclusive than East and South East London. I should add that obviously these days Shoreditch, Hoxton Bethnal Green are far from what they were in the 80's and 90's. Rotherhithe maybe changing albeit more slowly.

  78. jeff wright

    Mar 12, 2015, 11:28 #68506

    'The Gay Gooners' malarkey is absurd almost comical and is really just another PC attempt at hi-jacking football for reasons other than what it is supposed to be about. Wenger himself has had years of abuse accusing him of being a pervert by spuds and United morons I can't recall their club managers or directors doing anything about it though. The best way to deal with homophobic or racist chanting in this technological day and age is to identify the culprits and ban them from attending games. Campaigns in football just do not work and looking at some of the players,managers,directors and supporters this is not really so surprising.

  79. Will Magee

    Mar 12, 2015, 11:20 #68505

    Jamerson, I'm from North Finchley, not middle England.

  80. Ron

    Mar 12, 2015, 10:42 #68503

    PS - the song at Brighton that Arsenal fans sang with gusto when we played Brighton a couple of yrs back (cant speak for the other week as i wasn't there) was ' we can see you holding hands'. Seriously now, is that so earth shatteringly bad? Would a gay man/woman really be outraged? Good grief! Far too many people get off on the Daily Mails dirge im sure.

  81. Will Magee

    Mar 12, 2015, 10:36 #68502

    Editor, anti-Semitism is a fair point to bring up, and I in no way intended to sweep it under the carpet. I would disagree that it's heard frequently at matches - that's not my experience, anyway - but I'm well aware that it's still more of a presence at the club than other manifestations of racism; it's something that we should, absolutely, face up to.

  82. Ron

    Mar 12, 2015, 10:30 #68501

    Good post and great comments by Jamie (im sure many will hammer Jamie suggesting hes trying to justify the unjustifiable, but he clearly isnt.). AFC crowds arent so bad as Will says, but theyre not paragons of virtue either. I do away games as some of you know and some of the songs down the yrs are pretty bad towards others fans and Clubs players but on the whole we re not so bad. I admit that while a song (if its is a song?) such as that towards the young lady medic at Chelsea isnt one that id join in on, ive joined in with all the bad stuff v the Totts fans when i was a young fan. No excuse save for being young and ignorant either. All these who seem to want to say now that they've never heard anti Semitic songs at Arsenal either have serious ear problems or have never been to NLD home or away. The reality is that the young medic at Chelsea probably barely heard it, thankfully. Thats not to justify it but i doubt she lost a minutes sleep over a few rude morons. Far too much emphasis is put on stuff like this by the media who at the moment seem to be on a trip to front page football fans again as theyre trying to do over the Villa v Albion thing - another storm in a teacup in my view. The worst thing still for me in football crowds are the beer fuelled farts that seem to have a frequency and travel distances that defy normal weather and air conditions. The FA should nominate a clean air act officer. Im sure one bloke at OT the other night must have had a rat crawl up him and die!

  83. Wear Your Colours

    Mar 12, 2015, 10:24 #68500

    Well said Will. I regularly take my young daughter to games and would not like her to hear such chanting.

  84. Ozzie

    Mar 12, 2015, 10:19 #68499

    I grew up to believe the word gay meant something else and I've used the word many times in my poetry but now I do not because it is read out of context. It is a pity that homo sexuals felt the need to misuse such a fine word to make the unnatural appear respectable. However, my personal view aside, I like the idea of integration and I get a real buzz when the cameras focus on the crowd which features many ethnic origins all sharing, regardless of differences.

  85. chris dee

    Mar 12, 2015, 10:10 #68498

    I think Arsenal fans are amongst the most 'mild' fans in the league. But I must say the club itself stresses again and again that it will not tolerate vile abuse within the Emirates and the point has got over to the fans. If other clubs put as much effort into making their fans aware they would not put up with over the top abuse thing would improve. What is really sickening is the pious,holier than thou, outraged statements from innocent, pure as the driven snow, Chelsea regarding Carneiro.Where were these Chelsea guardians of good taste when whole sections,not a small minority,abused Arsene Wenger in the most disgusting way. That's right,they kept their gobs firmly shut.

  86. Feature Stamp

    Mar 12, 2015, 9:50 #68496

    Given the inclusivity for which our club has deservedly become renowned, I would say it was impossible for Arsenal fans to behave this way. So, who committed this could act? As Sir Author Conan Doyle famously penned "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." It is clear now that this heinous act against the fairer sex was committed by Man United fans having learned, yes i know behaviour such as learning seems contradictory, the dark art of ventriloquism. They simply threw their voices in the direction of the impeccably behaved Arsenal fans. I rest my case.

  87. Ry

    Mar 12, 2015, 9:35 #68495

    On the gay gooners - they’ve worked with the club to campaign against footballing homophobia, they’ve added their banner to the many others draped over the Emirates. No there a bunch of idiots who think i or Arsenal fans care that they are gay. If i want a banner to show im straight would it be allowed. No. So don't show it. We are Arsenal fans first then whatever else afterwords. No one in the stadium cares on your background or private life.

  88. CB

    Mar 12, 2015, 9:29 #68494

    As a season ticket holder for many years (and attending a few times a season since the early eighties) I never heard any anti-semitic chanting. A lot of 'stand up if you hate Tottenham' but nothing anti-semitic. I've never seen/heard any racist stuff either in the last 25 years, you'd have to be pretty stupid to support Thierry and be racist. There were monkey chants in the 80s at opposing players. I agree on the sexism minefield. There doesn't seem to be any hate there, more an attempt at humour.

  89. G Bethell

    Mar 12, 2015, 9:25 #68493

    I have been an Arsenal fan since 1969 and been to many games home and away. I became a season ticket holder in 2009 and now sit in block 4. I am Welsh and my 26 year old daughter sits next to me. Around our seats are people from all colours, creeds and sexes. We all celebrate together and suffer together and I can't really hand on my heart swear to have heard any racist chants apart from the songs about our neighbours up the road; which I have noticed the 'Y' word is not sung so much at the end of the song. But you are correct it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the great reputation that this club has.

  90. Website Editor

    Mar 12, 2015, 9:02 #68491

    Interesting piece, although I will start off by noting that there is no reference to the white elephant in the room, so to speak, which is the anti-Semitic chanting that goes on with regard to Arsenal’s North London neighbours. In the football stands, there is still a long, long way to go. It’s all about safety in numbers, so if the majority do want to eradicate any particular form of prejudice (of which sexism is one), but do not want to get into fist fights about it, at the very least do not join in with these kind of chants, and eventually, a solo singer will give up, or at the very least be highly identifiable on CCTV. However, in a society that celebrates something like page 3 of The Sun, the whole area of sexism is a minefield. Perhaps we can enjoy beauty without getting abusive about it? If the woman is good at her job and happens to be attractive, what’s not to like? Racism, though, is far more straightforward. Although Arsenal fans deserve credit when it comes to inclusion of ethnic minorities, the anti-Semitic chanting is still heard frequently and often at Arsenal matches. Let's not pretend otherwise.