Glorious Failure Once Again

Online Ed: Arsenal exit Europe on away goals rule at Monaco



Glorious Failure Once Again


A 2-0 scoreline was a fairly widely predicted one by Gooners in the build-up to this match, and so it proved. They’ve seen the script before. Arsenal shoot themselves in the foot in the first leg of Champions League last 16 knockout tie. Make valiant but ultimately doomed effort to turn tie round in the return game when they have created too much of a mountain to climb. Fall short in spite of valiant attempt to right wrongs from weeks earlier.

Monaco allowed Arsenal to dominate possession and territory at the Stade Louis II. And so it became a game of attack versus defence, with the occasional second half home team break to provide some variety. However, the visitors were only able to unpick the lock twice, leaving themselves 17 minutes (including injury time) to find that elusive third goal. In the end, the desperation to score an equalizer at home in the first leg, and the Ox treading on the ball to lose possession and set up the French side’s third goal, proved decisive.

And when one questions Arsenal’s ability to perform better in a competition they have had 17 consecutive attempts at under Arsene Wenger, the lack of composure at decisive moments has often been the difference between success and failure.

On another night, they might have got lucky. One of the chances that did not go in might have. It was, reckoned the statisticians, a 33 to 1 shot that the Gunners would progress. Knowing exactly what was required at least focused minds. They gave it a decent and highly commendable shot, but Monaco did defend well. Given that they were doing so for almost the entire game, you have to give credit to them for frustrating Arsenal as much as they did. And Gooners with long memories cannot quibble at a defensive rearguard of this nature if they recall the glory of Copenhagen in 1994.

And herein lies the answer to how Arsenal can progress. In short, defend better. Over the two legs of this European knockout tie, they scored three times, twice away. That should be enough to ensure qualification. But the goals against are the issue here. Sure, we can knock Ozil for his perceived lack of influence, but actually, Arsenal are scoring enough times, so the attacking side of the team is holding up their end of the bargain. Sure there is frustration what is perceived to be a shot-shy approach to attack, but before any European first leg, if you said a team is going to score twice away in the second leg, you would be confident of them progressing. The problems are when the opposition have the ball.

Let’s look at the numbers conceded in the last five years of round of 16 knockout ties.
2011 – Barcelona 4
2012 – Milan 4
2013 – Bayern Munich 3
2014 – Bayern Munich 3
2015 – Monaco 3

To look at the games in the previous seasons where Arsenal have been eliminated, the pattern continues –
2010 – Quarter Final – Barcelona 6
2009 – Semi Final – Manchester United 4
2008 – Quarter Final – Liverpool 5

Certainly, Arsenal progressed further in these season before elimination, but the Achilles’ Heel is always the same. When the team concede goals, there is only one outcome. They do not do defence when it matters. In the majority of these ties, Arsenal scored at least three times. In Europe, that should be enough to get through, if your defence is competent.

So what is the solution? Simple. Buy better defenders, coach the team as a unit how to defend their goal (positional discipline?), and prepare for each opposing side to identify their likely sources of goals and ensure the players are aware of what is required to nullify them.

I will say it again – the attacking players are getting enough goals to win these ties. Selection-wise, I would say the manager did as much as he could last night. Start relatively cautious, ensure no cheap goals were conceded, and make attacking changes in the second half. The gameplan worked in that Giroud fashioned a first half goal, the change of Ramsey and Walcott for Coquelin and Welbeck produced a second, and Arsenal then had a decent enough amount of time to get the goal that would take them through. Gibbs for Monreal added to the attacking pressure. Sure, they just felt short, but the team could have done little more in truth. Monaco were just a little too strong to concede three. Little sign of the defensive naivety that undid Arsene Wenger’s team in the game in north London.

So Arsenal need to work as a team to prevent the opposition outscoring them. That is what Monaco did, and they are in the hat for the last eight. Arsenal are left to try and qualify once again for another shot at a tournament they do not have a hope in hell of winning under the current manager.

Fair play to the players for their performance last night. They gave it a decent crack, gave the fans some hope, but just fell a goal short. Nobody was too disappointed because it was what was expected. Every Gooner and his dog was resigned to elimination after the first leg. The Miracle of Monaco was not to be.

Now to focus on retaining the FA Cup and finishing as high in the league as possible. If they do the former and manage third place or better, it will, at least, mark progress on last season, in spite of a number of disappointments in the current campaign.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

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Further Reading
A sequel to Arsènal – The Making of a Modern Superclub and entitled Arsène and Arsenal The Quest to Rediscover Past Glories has been written by myself and co-author Alex Fynn. It takes up the story of the club from the last update of the previous book, and can be bought online here. Use the promo code ‘Gooner’ to get 10% off the publisher’s price of £8.99.


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168
comments

  1. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 20, 2015, 13:01 #68962

    Badarse, i know wengerites are very good at changing and using different calendar's/years in the defence of they're messiah and to try and make him look good but your mate's post was at 11.33pm on the 19th March 2015 this is the 20th so wouldn't really be appropriate, unless you want to use a different calendar, but i'll tell you what i'll do i'll award you and your mob an invisible trophy anyway ( i know how you love them)for finding your tongue and working out how your mouths work again, funny how you all manage to do that three days later.

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 20, 2015, 12:29 #68959

    Jamerson, what says it all is you were the only one to pick it up and read it like that, nothing new or surprising there.

  3. UTU

    Mar 20, 2015, 10:44 #68949

    Same Sh1T, Different Day. Move along Nothing to see hear. Move along. As Long as Fans fund this Regime nothing will change

  4. Mark from aylesbury

    Mar 20, 2015, 10:09 #68946

    Jamerson 72617-/ 72559 I really think you would be happier at Chelsea with your hero Jeremy Clarkson or Jez as you probably call him. Lots of wealthy neighbourhoods plenty of wine bars, middle class lad could commit all types of hooliganism. Jolly good fun. I Just think Arsenal is the wrong fit for you. Too many unappreciative supporters etc.

  5. OBG

    Mar 20, 2015, 9:24 #68940

    Whilst I wholeheartedly agree, well it would be a fool who doesn't see the obvious failings and the crux of our constantly repeating problems; Arsene Wenger (and the Owner) who have set up the perfect money making machine - Promise much every season but fall short because they fail to address and solve the flaws that have existed since at least 2008 - by bringing the right players to the club. Even so there are still those who fail or refuse to see these failings. They once cited the lack of funds available - well with the purchase of Ozil and Aleis - that is clearly no longer a factor in our inability to compete. The main reason for our failure is Arsene wenger, he once was a manager of great ability, a pioneer in many ways in how he changed the way players trained and the way game was played. Sadly the methods and philosophies he brought with him have become out moded. He has had his time in the sun - time for him to accpet he is no longer the man for the job and move on. But because he trades on his past reputation (the years of success) and still makes profits for the owner - despite his failure to secure silverware (with a brief blip in the FA Cup last season) that owner has given him carte blanche to continue achieving nothing other than profit. It is truly sad that he (Arsene Wenger) is unwilling to accept his own failings and inabilities. Furthermore he has managed to do what no other manager at Arsenal has done to such an extent before and that is to set Gooner against Gooner, to the point of fisticuffs and even broken friendships and family arguments. We may win the League Cup or even the FA Cup occasionally, but even with the right investment in players in the right positions - under his management we will never win the Prem nor the cash cow that is the C.League.

  6. Badarse

    Mar 20, 2015, 9:10 #68938

    Mag, can a post from last night win post of the day for the following day, as Jamerson's post 72617 was quite concisely and eloquently penned and merited such. My little red and white man from the planet Zog can master the distortion of time so he could award it-as your mob seem able to distort most things perhaps this is also possible. Sorry Jeff, blood was up for unrelated reasons, and I just get tired of endless negativity and using insults as a vehicle to convey the perceived shortcomings of the poster. All anti-AW seem so miserable and it seeps through the posts and has a drip, drip effect, now how many drips are there? Any way apologies buddy, I shouldn't have been rankled, I should have done what I usually do, shove my fist into my mouth and scream silently. A big bowl of creamy virtual porridge awaits, come and join me-It seems you haven't had your oats for a while? Teacher? No, but shouldn't we all be attempting that in one way or another?

  7. Charlie George Orwell

    Mar 20, 2015, 8:17 #68928

    Baddie - WERE you a schoolteacher? I only ask because on occasion you've responded to a post or two of mine in a manner that immediately whisked me back to my schooldays when I sometimes found myself stood in front of the Head.

  8. Ron

    Mar 20, 2015, 7:38 #68925

    Walcotts contract talks are worrying. Surely he can be paid more. Surely he can be tied down to a new long term contract. Liverpool are watching developments Arsene. Surely even you cant drag this out like before. Surely a great world class player can be coaxed to settle. Surely his skills are a priceless asset. Dont fook this up Arsenal. Get him to Euston St now. One way ticket to Liverpool Lime Street needed now!

  9. Joe S.

    Mar 20, 2015, 3:39 #68924

    Ozil should definitely work harder to become a leader but at the same time some of the passing to him by team mates was shocking, you'd almost think those over hit passes to him were deliberate At the same time there were deeper issues. such as not having the all round class to find inspiration a la Tevez. All the great teams have had this influence. Then there were times when arsenal played like headless chickens. What was that mad defensive scramble early in the second half all about.We were lucky not to conceed a tie ending decider. in the end however the result meant nothing because we are out and something similar will probably be repeated next season whether in Spain, Germany or even Portugal.

  10. jeff wright

    Mar 19, 2015, 23:52 #68923

    EG, yes of course I must pay more attention to Brian and Jamersons posts then it will all make sense!

  11. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 19, 2015, 23:35 #68922

    jeff - you've not being paying close enough attention. Arsene's genius lies in both winning the match this week AND clearing the fixture list for the rest of the season... so we can concentrate on doing the same next season. It really was the ultimate victory. No other manager manages this.

  12. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 23:10 #68921

    EG - blowing ink coated peas through pea shooters is the best way to rile Badarse when hes in class. His true colours are displayed then, even more than they usually are. Jeff - yr '4th place and A Cup in 9 yrs' point is one well made. Big Sam and Hughes would i think pull that off given the tools they would have at AFC to work with. Oddly enough im not sure Martinez would. PS id love to see a British Coach back at Arsenal ideally. I wonder who ll ever give Eddie Howe a go some where? A good lad he is. Needs a chance.

  13. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 22:47 #68920

    'Ron s Toffees' could go down! ha. Ive some great mates who are Toffees. You should hear them when theyre arguing with the Reds fans i know! It would soon dispel the ludicrous notions anyone still has thats its all friendly in love and war when the footie gets in the way.! Great lads. Great City is Liverpool. Liveliest place in Britain bar none in my view.

  14. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 19, 2015, 22:41 #68919

    Badarse - are you a retired schoolteacher? I just ask because if so, I'm not sure a football blog is the right place to try and fill the void of your missed vocation. The 'pupils' here do not appreciate your corrections and tickings off when they have a few words to say about the 'Headmaster', and keep showing you up and ridiculing you for it, as Jeff has rather hilariously just done. Yet you keep doing it. You're like a masochist supply teacher.

  15. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 19, 2015, 22:33 #68918

    jeff, "We are better than that petty churlishness bad loser behaviour he displays"...sums you up to a t

  16. jeff wright

    Mar 19, 2015, 22:10 #68917

    Brian, your posts become ever more ludicrous.Far from advocating that Martinez should take over from Wenger I ridiculed the idea after the recent game v Everton. The post is there to prove it. Actually I have always found Martini's football like Wenger's tippy- tappy boring,I don't like Pellegrini's either. I did suggest once that any number of other managers could get us a 4th place finish and win a FAC every 9 years or so if given 19 years to do that in. That is still my view!

  17. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 22:10 #68916

    i just think Pochettini did well at Saints and hes knocked Totts into some sort of shape with players who arent his choices. No point denying hes shows good potential just because hes at WHL? Hes a long way to go admittedly. PS I did smile at Sherwood today on the radio and his dig at Levy. Did you hear it. I like Sherwood too. Good potential and he ll do well at Villa i hope. Theyre a Club who shd be up there at least with the spuds and Liv.

  18. jeff wright

    Mar 19, 2015, 21:56 #68915

    Jamerson , MG was obviously referring to the hysterics that this would have produced,not the fact that we had got through.Anyway no one in their right mind would believe that we could beat the likes of Barcelona over two legs,would they>? So what is the purpose of it all ? Wenger is like Captain Ahab who was obsessed with trying to kill Moby Dick in Wenger's case it's the European Cup that he chases. His lack of success is hurting him and causing him to act in a manner at times that is not becoming of a manager of AFC.We are better than that petty churlishness bad loser behaviour that he displays. For me Wenger is an accident of history a man of modest abilities who struck lucky when a number of factors came together to allow him to punch well above his weight for a short period of time .Even then during that magical period he made calamitous costly mistakes and did not take full advantage of his good fortune. Once the lucky period passed and he had to rely on his abilities in a less favourable environment he was found wanting. These constant defeats in the first KO rounds of the European Cup are not down to misfortune only an idiot would believe that. Same with the Prem he can't hack it now regarding winning it but has had to settle for a minor role in finishing 4th for donkeys years and then ( yawn) attempting another futile attempt to win his holy grail . Never mind though one thing that he has done is to make lots of money - not least for himself as Arsene would say,merci beaucoup !

  19. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 19, 2015, 21:55 #68914

    Ron, the lilly****es have a good coach?...what the fcuk has he done to earn that mantra?

  20. Badarse

    Mar 19, 2015, 21:53 #68913

    Jeff Wright I do it because you and your gang cannot keep a courteous and civil tongue in your mouths. OK? By the way Martinez played rush goalie tonight-I think you sang his praises as a replacement not so long ago, along with some members of the crew. Oh and Bendtner has just ensured the passage of Wolfsburg into the last eight, unlike Ron's Toffees.

  21. jeff wright

    Mar 19, 2015, 21:03 #68912

    Brian the purpose of a rhetorical statement is to produce a reaction to it. With all the dexterity of a Dodo attempting flight you come flapping in squawking to defend the slight on Arsene's credibility that your extra-sensory perceptions have picked up .Why you feel the need to constantly have to do this and to try to disguise it by using gobbledegook inanities dressed up as satire only you know .Perhaps, as has been claimed, you get paid to do it... if not then you must have some strange obsession with the man from Alsace that drives you to do it. As the actress said to the bishop,it takes all sorts...

  22. Badarse

    Mar 19, 2015, 20:51 #68911

    'No one in football talks more b😄locks than Wenger.' Oh Jeff, out of the mouths of babes and innocents! Wet Cod are the new 'I want!' Plaything. PL status, new stadium, history, tradition, good core support and London! The money men are circling overhead, so forget the Sours, they have a high probability of sinking beneath the waves. Often the threat comes from an unexpected source. John F talk of Yorkshire and cheaper houses. Parliament will move sometime I believe, and a big 'sell' is on to put the idea into minds of a super state in the north, Yorks/Lancs, (forget the NE despite what's said), it will make Brum the cheaper place to be, but for how long? As I said the threat often comes from an unexpected source.

  23. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 20:45 #68910

    I think yr missing the point Bard lad. Right now its still quite easy really for Arsenal to get that top 4 slot. Only their own stupidity and poor planning and management stop them getting in it Its happens this way as the others such as Totts and Liv make more bad decisions than we do over a season. AFC nor Spuds or Liv are likely to actually win the title. The battle is too challenge for it. Give Tottenham and Liverpool extra resources that new stadiums provide and arsenals gteed place in the top 4 become harder. Its why AFC need to act now. Liv esp arent killing them selves to renovate Anfield. Theyve been prepping the area for 8 years to create room to build Anfield up and get the land to do it. Theyve been far more canny than Arsenals Board ever were. Its all within budget. The cost might affect them a bit but not for a decade like Arsenals grand plan has done. If Arsenal stand still Liverpool will overtake them and you have to think top 4 will soon be top 3 the way its going and not before time in my view. Tottenham maybe will cock it up as is their want but who knows. Theyve a good Coach there now. Yr point on losing players is fair but ALL PL clubs have that problem. All roads for the best players lead to Barca Madrid and Munich (and eventually no doubt Milan) now in the modern game. Give the choice of living in those 4 Citys as opposed to grotty old London and even grottier Manchester, its a no brainer when the quality of life comes to be considered for top players.

  24. Hiccup

    Mar 19, 2015, 20:34 #68909

    Good points Bard. When Kane is sold they won't be able to replace him for a year either. They'll have to wait a year and pick up a freebie that's only fit to play for the likes of Crystal Palace. Years of poverty lay ahead. But the wait will be worth it.

  25. jeff wright

    Mar 19, 2015, 20:27 #68908

    Looks about right MG your summary,just the same tired old with another chance of the once despised FAC tossed into the mix. ....yawn............. Bard according to Levy the spuds plan is to build the new stadium and then sell the whole shebang to a billionaire ! Levy's and Bermuda triangle Joe's previous plans have not worked out as expected so this latest one appears to have a touch of the missed the 73 bus again about it.You couldn't make it up.

  26. Bard

    Mar 19, 2015, 20:04 #68907

    These posts about the up and coming Liverpool and Spuds are a tad to exaggerated. Yes they will have big grounds but can they pay the wages? They will have their best players taken by clubs who pay bigger wages. We have had to deal with that and still do ( Sagna to City for £150th a week). Liverppol will struggle to hold onto Sterling whatever Rogers says. Kane is on £60th a week, if he becomes a world beater he will go just like Bale. Hazard has signed for £200th and Falcao is on £340th. Can Liverpool and the Spuds afford that? I dont think so. So for me no they wont be a credible threat on a regular basis.

  27. jjetplane

    Mar 19, 2015, 19:53 #68906

    I'll have that JohnF - onward the march of the cockneys against the destroyers of football! 3 and in for everyone!

  28. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 19:50 #68905

    jw, and we all know what this amazing season he's raving on about is going to be, third or fourth, and maybe with another lucky Cup thrown in that him and his fans treated with distain for years (and I've no doubt still does) in his Failed pursuit for his, yes his, Holy Grail, and it will be spun as a great achievement and it will be lapped up by the wengerites, even though nothing will or will have changed.

  29. Hiccup

    Mar 19, 2015, 19:47 #68904

    I don't think we need to worry about spurs and west hams new grounds or liverpool getting up to 60k capacity. They still won't be able to compete with our profit and loss account. They should still be able to milk the fans in the short term with promises of being able to match the spending power of Chelsea, and false promises that they'll be able to compete for the title. They've obviously seen the arsenal model at work, which is proving with the right gullible customer and well dressed up spin, can be sustained indefinitely. The scousers have just as many dimwit fans as arsenal which will be beneficial. They believe the world is against them too, so some carefully worded bollox from the club will be able to play on this for a good few years. Failure on the pitch won't be too consequential provided they finish above Everton. I'm sure they're also be relying on this new phenomenon that when fans are bored of the failings and excuses and can't be arsed to turn up, that they still pay for the privilege of non attending. It's win win win as the cash keeps coming in. Karen Brady, Gold and Sullivan knew what they were doing when they left Brum to go to West Ham. It'll all be about the top 4 of the Turnover league that Sky will be promoting soon, as events on the pitch will take a further backseat. Can't wait!

  30. Mark from aylesbury

    Mar 19, 2015, 19:17 #68903

    Ron and Maguires - I would just agree with both of you. I don't think anyone at board level unless Josh Kronke springs a surprise will go big plus as westie said the board will literally crap themselves when wenger goes. Hence the shadow behind the throne will remain, where I have slight optimism is that the new man might do s George Graham or actually fail miserably in which case things will unravel and then finally mend. What inu eyed would be worse is more mediocrity

  31. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 18:50 #68902

    I suppose this latest failure means there's not going to be another Bust? At least something positive has come out of it all,( one's enough to look at) although i'm sure his disciples would love another one for this so called great victory alone, conveniently forgetting the first leg of course. And can you imagine if we'd went through what we'd have been hearing? and what the calls would be for? it doesn't bear thinking about.

  32. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 19, 2015, 18:46 #68901

    I would go one step further than Westlower. Rather than simply wanting him to mentor the next manager, I would hope that upon his death an android replica of Wenger is created in order that his great teachings and blessings of 4th and last 16 can rain down upon us forever more.

  33. John F

    Mar 19, 2015, 18:36 #68900

    jjetplane,who would be the top three,Palace,Westham and of course the mighty Kingstonians.

  34. jeff wright

    Mar 19, 2015, 18:28 #68899

    MG, no one in football talks more bollocks than Wenger ,season after season of it and unbelievably he still has some who swallow it! The Monaco tie was over two legs the result is judged overall not by what the result was in either of the two games played. There was no magnificent defeat just a defeat and not an unusual one either. When the draw was made Monaco were looked on as being a by an easy touch .Losing to them was a disgrace no matter how much spin is put on things. SSo we now wait with bated breath and great anticipation for the 'amazing' finish to the season that Wenger now claims that he will produce.What a shallow man he is ,bankrupt of any credibility le emperor with no clothes again in a Europe that he craves to be successful in above all else. The bitterness at his own inability to be so is eating away at him and he lashes out in frustration at others like all petty tyrants do.A sad man really well past his sell buy date and living off what he achieved a decade ago and never ending optimism that he will be able to rise like a phoenix from the ashes to win top honours again .Mertesacker's comments that the players were not up for the Monaco game at home say it all really about Wenger's inept management .

  35. jjetplane

    Mar 19, 2015, 18:17 #68898

    Everyone 'blowin' bubbles' in a great big 'cockney empire.' Sounds like football heaven. And if the Eagles keep upsetting carts I reckon in a couple of years Arsenal will be 4th best club in London unless of course the Spuds .... (forgot about them). Anyway - could be like 1966 all over again. ..... wot a rotten singer to-oo-oo ....

  36. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 18:02 #68897

    jw, the old master of spin is in full flow and no doubt it will be lapped up by the sheep. Treat everything he say's with extreme caution, good one, maybe even come with a health warning like we see on a packet of fags would be just as appropriate.

  37. John F

    Mar 19, 2015, 17:53 #68896

    Never mind the Spuds or Liverpool what about the whammers,Moving into a big stadium soon without such a big debt.A couple of years to sort out the team and getting a new manager might make them a major force.People will say that they might not fill the stadium but all they have to do is increase the away allocation. The stadium its self will be a big draw.With English clubs failing in Europe for the 2nd time in 3 years we could have the allowance of four teams in the Champions league put under threat.UEFA judge it on a five year cycle.We are in year three according to Radio 5.It we do lose a place it will coincide with Wengers contract ending.

  38. jjetplane

    Mar 19, 2015, 17:32 #68895

    Like The House of Lords. Further to Lord Jamerson of Barnsbury commenting on Sir Spud and Sir Scouser's proposed moves to er ... Dubai, this House as one say 'who are ya ....' Will the House settle down while Baron Badarse finishes his ahhh .....

  39. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 17:28 #68894

    mark from aylesbury, in other words start all over again, what a waste.

  40. Badarse

    Mar 19, 2015, 17:25 #68893

    Mag, you've climbed into that hole in your garden again, haven' t you? Do a DWT, climb out, shake yourself, look around, and put a positive spin on things. Oh, and is the garden ready for the BBQ?

  41. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 17:09 #68892

    Steve, as we say over here good spake, yes what a waste, and it won't ever be forgotten, that's his Legacy now.

  42. Badarse

    Mar 19, 2015, 16:47 #68891

    Following on from Jamerson's post, and regarding the Sours in particular. Building/expanding the stadium is a dodgy operation. The financial attractions of an increased capacity are obvious. Circumstances now dictate that it is vital to compete on a more even footing with the major players, or slide away into relative oblivion. That decision to go ahead is a reasoned process, the logistics are where the main planning takes place. Removal to another stadium during rebuilding, relocating back, changes of personnel along the way, and in the Sours case with their turnover of Chiefs they could have a new manager who never manages at the Lane. At the risk of the next statement causing an AW rift, I think the success of our achievement has been phenomenal. It has been smoothed over with a cursory acknowledgement to the entire AFC organisation. With so many likely pitfalls I am excited by the intentions of the two club's desires- who knows what type or standard of side would move into the new home?

  43. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 16:43 #68890

    jj, like you said over the page, bites ever time.

  44. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 16:38 #68889

    Mark - bang on the nail mate. AFC will try cheap and middle range as a cure all and then learn later that its a false economy. Typical AFC. Wenger will be feathering his own nest in any new appointment machinations. Youre right. Not one top Coach will want him hanging around behind the curtains, not least as none of them seem to even like the bloke, never mind the principle of him being there.

  45. jeff wright

    Mar 19, 2015, 16:36 #68888

    Wenger's claims that we can still have an amazing season are just more bull form the old master of delusion. Winning the Prem or the European Cup would have been amazing a minor top 4 finish and another FAC hardly qualifies as being amazing. It might be amazing to the spuds but to us it's just deja vu . After Wenger's prediction that we would win the tie in Monaco proved to be another duff one from him I treat anything he says with extreme caution. Apparently according to the BFG Wenger has targeted 3rd place so as to avoid the pesky qualifier tie in the summer these are now a little tougher than what they were,Also the seeding system for the Champions League has been changed with current league placings taken account of rather than past appearances in the midweek TV show. This also could most likely make life tougher if we were to get a group such as City had .After all we have years of easy ones and consistently struggled to win them. Wenger however is not fooling anyone with his amazing claims regarding winning another FA cup he knows that once again it's really the 4th place trophy that he will be judged on and failure to win that will take the shine off any possible cup win . That failure to get a top 4 place would be the equivalent of Wigan winning the cup and then being relegated.Pointless.

  46. Westlower

    Mar 19, 2015, 16:35 #68887

    Mark from Aylesbury, I agree Paul Clement's strong point is that he's worked with top notch players over many years. He would have to be employed as a coach only with Wenger as his mentor. Wenger could focus on day to day management issues, including transfer deals. It may be the way to go until the new guy gets his feet under the table. It won't appease those who want Wenger out of the club but I believe the board would be anxious to keep him on for his knowledge & his devotion to AFC.

  47. mark from aylesbury

    Mar 19, 2015, 16:07 #68886

    West Lower - Interesting points of view in your last piece however I reckon that Paul Clement is a very typical Arsenal appointment. The obvious golden choice would be Carlo Ancelotti but he wont fit around Wenger. What they will do is have Wenger guiding Paul Clement or Henry through the overall management ropes. The successor will be offered a fair salary but not massive and a player budget for a middling club. Clement I reckon could get the nod as he will have one of the best connected diaries in the business i.e an intro to the players and scouting networks of Real Madrid. Meanwhile Carlo will go to Manu or someone who wants success there and then. As we have to wait for the club to work through its mistakes I wouldn't actually mind a coach like Clement as at least he would bring new idea's and be used to very large ego's

  48. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 15:57 #68885

    Westie - yes mate, we do need a top calibre man dont we. Its a big job.The 2nd biggest job in the PL i reckon. The Board just need to create a package that a top man would relish. Jamie - you shdt underestimate Liverpool as you're doing mate. Their fans 'expect', they don't just 'wish for' as they look longingly and wistfully doe eyed into the middle distance. Rodgers will be on his bike if they don't progress, new stadium or no new stadium at Anfield. We do that at AFC! That half the problem.

  49. Westlower

    Mar 19, 2015, 15:39 #68884

    @Ron, As I've stated previously I've no problem with a new manager being appointed, whether it be sooner or later. I play devils advocate just to find out how deep feelings run with the disenchanted. Maybe us old lags have developed a thicker skin to setbacks as we've experienced some really barren periods in Arsenal's history. From where I'm looking I can't see an obvious choice to take over in the short term but as you say AFC are in a good position to offer a lucrative contract. For sure the club have to keep splashing the dosh every summer just to keep up with the other big guns. It's no job for virgins like Clement & Henry. The board are between a rock and a hard place when Wenger walks. Get the wrong man and they'll be in uncharted waters on what to do next. Wenger, for all his shortcomings is a safe pair of hands. Conversations must have taken place at boardroom level on how to plan for the future, both short & medium term. It's impossible to run a multi-million pound business on a wing & a prayer.

  50. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 14:54 #68883

    JJ - there does seem to be a momentum at Liverpool now that will see them to the top. Not sure Rodgers will hit that note though mate? Rather think a higher profile successor will reap the rewards of his groundwork. I like how theyve not sold their soul and have chosen to redevelop Anfield so to keep their roots and fabric. Ill always say that AFC should have done so.OK it might have meant a slightly lesser seat capacity of 50-53000 but the outcome would have been far better for them. I was alongside Anfield a few weeks back. Theyre really going for it to get the job done.Impressive. Shifting Gerrad on will and is assisting the Club greatly on the pitch already. Im sure Rodgers cant wait to see the back of him privately. The 'eye on him' has now been removed. Liverpool have respected their own uniqueness. AFC in my view willingly and randomly threw theirs in a big skip when they shifted not 500 yds down the road. We ll pay the price for many years yet i think. Its sad.

  51. Bard

    Mar 19, 2015, 14:49 #68882

    Westie thats a bit harsh. I have only just got my pram out, got my toys sorted and had the dummies all washed and cleaned. Let me play with them for a while will you. The only tears I detect on here are those of frustrations. Its completely pointless using the argument ' who would do better' because its all hypothetical. The next manager may do better or worse. Either way a new vision is needed to reinvigorate the club. The apathy thats so evident is that we seem eternally stuck in groundhog day without any evidence that we are moving forward. Our first leg tie against Monaco was all too familiar as was the second leg. You cant keep going round in circles something has to change. Anyway Im off down the high street to throw my toys out of my shiny new pram.

  52. jjetplane

    Mar 19, 2015, 14:43 #68881

    Ha ha! If that is all you have left in your locker WESTIE it's the knackers yard for you along with your lord and Master. Watch out the Rodgers man (another one of your nightmares) is coming fast out of nowhere and ready to dominate Arsenal for the next decade part. if your other love St Henry gets to take over. personally, I reckon Scholesy would do a better job than the creaking, bloodshot-eyed man from Alsace. Remind me also how long you have revered the Monaco set-up? About as long as you have with the FA Cup bandwagon though that will fade as Villa/Liverpool take control ..... know you like the Torygraph so you must be delighted they are calling Giroud the perfect flat track bully. That 9th tier is giving you nightmares too! Stan will be asking you what it's all about when you kneel by your bed for AKB prayers ... you could not make it up lol!

  53. Mark from aylesbury

    Mar 19, 2015, 14:41 #68880

    Jamerson it's more an observational point but I see you are now trying to elevate yourself above the masses by post code area You make me chuckle as one of londons most notorious families come from your very same Barnsbury.

  54. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 14:32 #68879

    Westie - The AFC job could be a package that attracted any Coach in World football if the Board wanted it to be mate, irrespective of the Clubs low level euro status. The points that you make are valid in the sense that what Wenger has done and given to the Club is far better for the Club to possess than not having it. Of course that's right. Disregard us fans for now though. The Club has a real problem now as i see it in maintaining its profile and convincing people, inc the players that the bar will be raised. AFC are now being questioned by many fans, not just us on here. I hear it all the time when i do go to games and yet didn't hear it even 2 years back. As far as a new Coach goes, he s going to need the Club to back him. If they don't, then the direction is downwards for AFC as i see it. Liverpool and Tottenham will be in new stadia soon and thats ominous for AFC.Its as Bard says, there isnt a reason to sack AW from an economic standpoint alone, but we all know that no economic model lasts long unless its constantly refreshed and the 'product' improved. They have to find a new Coach, before Wengers contract expires. Businesses need changes just for the sake of change some times and the face at the front is always the one that needs refreshing. I think the game the other night might be a watershed that could lead to him giving it up, i really do. Its not for fans to make the decision as to who comes in as you constantly demand, we can only speculate. We know little. The fact is, we look a million miles from title winners even, never mind CL winners. The writings on the wall. Your philosophy of hanging on to what we have is just fear and a recipe for more failure. I think there's a realisation in the boardroom now of this. The question is do they have the balls to seek better or do they just think a change of face in Wenger s chair will do just to appease the supporters? I fear their mindset is for the latter and if im right, things may go down further before they go upwards as has happened at Utd. Some times such a trajectory is needed to revitalise a Club. The fans have to accept this. I do. I think AFC s present, albeit cash flowing haven is humdrum and so do many other AFCs fans who i speak too. Its dangerous. Its cant last. Wenger needs to go, whoever we draft in to replace him.

  55. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 14:17 #68878

    jj, two days and that's the best he can come up with? I guess he was to tired, you couldn't make it up. Avenell Road, just seen that myself TOF thinks it's not fair (aw diddum's)and out dated and wants it scraped, i'm surprised it's taken so long for that one to surface, it's always somebody else's fault, pathetic, just watch all his disciples latch onto it now too.

  56. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 14:00 #68877

    Gaz, your right he never will and we all know it, but leaving that aside, after the last eight, nine, years and everything that went with them embarrassments, humiliations, prioritising, dross, second raters, spin, etc, etc, would he even deserve one? after all the fans have had to put with because of him would or does TOF deserve jug ears on his CV? certainly not.

  57. Westlower

    Mar 19, 2015, 13:49 #68876

    Oh dear the cry babies are out in force today, time to put your prams & toys back into storage. A 2-0 win and they fall apart, ego's bruised by the likes of mega mouth Adrian Durham, who's at best an authority on 2nd/3rd tier football, JJ is THE expert on 9th tier. Put away your tissues and tell me who is available to replace Wenger this summer? I'll help you by naming the short list as seen by the bookies. Klopp is the favourite, current form lost 11 of 25 games in Budesliga, knocked out of ECL 1-5 aggregate. T. Henry, never coached & Wenger clone, never managed, Paul Clement, never managed, Pep, unlikely to leave BM for a PL club without a glorious ECL history, Bergkamp, never managed & Wenger clone, Martinez, only remaining PL coach in Europe (no thanks), Stojkovic, Wenger clone, Koeman, possible, M. Laudrup, Managed Swansea, Adrian Durham, w**ker supreme. That's the bookies short list, pray tell me gentleman who will take our club to the next level? The current incumbent has made the job easier for the next manager by securing ECL income of approx. £400m into the club on his watch. Where would the club be today without this injection of cash, particularly during the stadium move? As Ron says we are a few players short of competing at the top table but at least we are eating at that table and are well positioned in the coming years to progress further.

  58. Avenell Road

    Mar 19, 2015, 13:24 #68875

    I see TDOF trying to change the rules of football today. Perhaps he should try changing his ways first.

  59. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 13:16 #68874

    Danny, a hell of a lot have realised that mate, and a long time ago too and know nothings going to change. Others realise and know it too but such is their love and devotion for/to him just hang on in the hope that one day he'll change and come good.

  60. jjetplane

    Mar 19, 2015, 13:06 #68873

    Have just read that Arsene (French bloke) Wenger has stated the reason his perfectly glorious players went out was due to feeling 'really rather tired' after that really tough, end to end encounter with the mightily resurgent Hammers only a matter of hours before they had to leave by ferry for France. This is part of the new austerity measures Stan has had to introduce to ward off any financial pressures if no one goes to the WOK anymore. Of course that will never happen because there are an endless supply of people from the BRIC and other (resurgent - see Hammers) economies who are looking for a leetle (sic) sport along with Tussauds, Big Ben and The Mousetrap .... Peanuts, Peanuts ..... Arsenal are also hoping to overturn that final result in Moanaco. Fingers crossed lads ....

  61. Gaz

    Mar 19, 2015, 13:00 #68872

    CGO-agreed fella RE Monaco. Completely average side that we should be beating all day long. Not surprised fans are bigging them up though as it gives them an excuse for us going out to the weakest side left in the comp. As for this 'great' second leg performance even if you buy into it the simple fact is both ours and Monacos performances were a consequence of what happened in that disasterous first leg. They never had to score so they defended-we had to score so we attacked them. If they'd really needed to score I'm guessing they would have. Of course if this was the first time we'd failed at this stage then fair enough. Fact is we do it every single year-whoever the opponents-and it indicates a chronic deep rooted problem with the Club-or in this case the manager. Leading nicely onto Wenger he'll never win us a champions league. Actually I doubt he'll ever properly challenge for one again. His record in this competition considering the ammount of times he's been in it is awful really. And if we're not going to win it why should he continue to get chance after chance? The whole Stadium move and sky high ticket prices were sold to us on the basis we'd be competing for the major honours yet once again we're nowhere near them. And dont give me the FA cup is a major trophy. Reality is no top Club gives it any real importance nowadays except us and we all know the reason for that is its the only one we can win!...

  62. jjetplane

    Mar 19, 2015, 12:42 #68871

    72540 nice one MG - you had him running right across the cyber park for that one, trying to nibble a trainer. Most amusing! Force India takes over from Team Stan. Tsunami! JAMERSON how much did you pay for your er escorts mate! Doubt Arsene FC would even get as far as Everton in the Europa - never mind the CL. As long as you had a good time English Boys Non! Glad someone has cleared up why inspector Clueless has had a tough time in Europe. It's all the (rotational) persistent fouling and time wasting wot dem der bleeding foreigners do! I mean - look at that Sanchez. He's one of ours non? Well, anyway you know what we Wobbies mean.

  63. Charlie George Orwell

    Mar 19, 2015, 12:27 #68870

    The only way Monaco will get anywhere near Berlin is if a truly cataclysmic tsunami hits the north Mediterranean. Bigging them up as being something of an underestimated European force is ridiculous. A team of great capability that relies on Berbatov huffing and puffing up front?(who still managed to put one past us). Sorry, but all this guff goes to show how poorly Arsenal perform in Europe.

  64. Bard

    Mar 19, 2015, 12:04 #68869

    I think the manager discussion is too narrow. What is clear is how far PL teams have slipped behind European ones. Neither PSG or Monaco are top Euro clubs but they have relatively easily disposed of 2 of our 4 contenders. I think the who's next discussion is also pointless. Wenger isnt going anywhere whatever anyone thinks. He's goldplated, he brings stability, mediocrity and plenty of money. From a business point of view whats not to like about that and first and foremost Arsenal are a business. The trouble the club has at the moment is how to keep spinning the idea that the holy grail is round the corner. This season we may finish higher than before but as a team we havent improved one iota as our familiar exit from the CL has demonstrated. We look world beaters when there is nothing to play for and schoolboys when there is something on the line.

  65. Mark from aylesbury

    Mar 19, 2015, 12:00 #68868

    Jamerson - cockney jibber jabber ? Lustful WOB's last time I looked Arsenal was a London club. Your portrayal of lust sounds like something of a Victorian melodrama . Strange words indeed

  66. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 11:27 #68867

    Westie - i reckon in all honesty that we could have Busby Wenger Guardiola Cruyff Mournho and Shankly running us and we still wouldn't win that CL. We don't have the players and probably never will. End of mate. Im aware of the money benefits of being in it of course, but truthfully, from a football perspective AFC would better off in the Europa Cup. We are a EC Club and have been for years. Losing in the CL is no big deal really. We ve just saved ourselves a thumping by losing to Monaco. The CL has its prestige attached to being in it, but frankly, its a bore.

  67. Westlower

    Mar 19, 2015, 11:01 #68866

    With Dortmund going down 0-3 to Juventus would we have done any better with Herr Klopp as coach? Also knocked out of the ECL are top coaches Maureen, Pellegrini, Rodgers. Maureens conquerors PSG could only manage a 0-0 draw at Monaco & a 1-1 draw at home in Ligue 1 this season. Maybe Monaco are a better side than some mouthy pundits would have you believe. It's also worth remembering in the past 10 days we've won at OT, beat West Ham 3-0 & beat Monaco 2-0. Hardly the basis on which to sack the manager. Do we want to bring in another failed manager in Klopp? Paul Clement isn't a failed manager because he's never managed a club, nor has Thierry Henry. Who would we get this summer if push came to shove? @Hi Berry, You're correct with your nit picking as I believe Arsenal were the first English side to beat BM in their new home of the Allianz Arena, where they've played since 2005/06.

  68. Tony Evans

    Mar 19, 2015, 10:23 #68865

    Jamerson - I think it's about time you dropped your obsession with the WOB/AKB debate. It's boring mate and as we are all Arsenal supporters (bar the sad, lonely Finsbury Joe) let's just focus on how the team played and our opinions (for what they are worth)as to how we can improve matters on the pitch (either with Wenger or without). You obviously still have faith in Wenger and people like me don't - let's just agree to differ and move on eh?

  69. Ron

    Mar 19, 2015, 10:10 #68864

    Hi Berry - the one single factor in my opinion that maintains Tottenham H having any profile at all is the fact they're in London (just about). If they weren't, there wouldn't ever be a mention of them. A Nothing Club. They rarely get a mention in the provinces and just carry a perception roughly akin to Bham City or at best, Leeds.

  70. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 19, 2015, 9:31 #68863

    badarse - I'm wondering if you ever read what you've just written and think, "Christ, that's unfeasibly boring and irrelevant" before you send it. I think waterboarding would be preferable.

  71. Hi Berry

    Mar 19, 2015, 9:21 #68862

    Julesd..sorry to nitpick, but if my memory serves me right the mighty Norwich saw off Bayern in the Olympic Stadium twenty years or so ago, albeit in the EUFA cup. Shock result admittedly, but in a time when the playing fields were a little more even and the game a little more genuinely competitive than it is today. Have to agree with you on the 'Glory, glory days' our neighbours down the road and the media keep banging on about which in reality lasted between 1960 and 1963.

  72. Badarse

    Mar 19, 2015, 9:20 #68861

    Yes mag, read DWT's post, sit down, stand up, shake your head, do a Michael Jackson spin, jump down, turn around- picking a bale of cotton optional, scratch your bum, look out of the window, poke yourself in the eye, bang your head against the wall, open the window and climb out onto the ledge. Or read julesd's early post, (had to be up early to let the hedgehog in and to put westlower out), because that is the post of the day. Whoops sorry, your day is perpetually locked in 26th May 1989! Never mind fella.

  73. julesd

    Mar 19, 2015, 6:25 #68860

    @Finsbury Joe, I didn't realise your club had such a glorious history in Europe. Shame you don't acknowledge that there's only one ENGLISH club that have won away at Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Borussia Dortmund. This week they also became the first English club to win in Monaco. Yes, the club you're looking for is THE ARSENAL.

  74. jags

    Mar 19, 2015, 4:25 #68859

    the key is to score the goals .If Giroud takes 2 of the 6 chances in the first leg the tie is over .if he takes two of the chances that fell his way in the away leg we go through . The key is that Giroud is simply not good enough , he is too slow and misses too many relatively easy chances . one of out ten chances home and away is second rate . If we buy a top class striker problem solved

  75. Danny

    Mar 19, 2015, 1:19 #68858

    When are people going to realize, its tactics and preparation that is the problem at Arsenal. Wenger gives NONE He has to go, before we move forward

  76. Finsbury Joe

    Mar 19, 2015, 0:14 #68857

    Big Dave, can tell you exactly what Steve Bould does, he, like everyone else on Arsenals payroll does exactly what wenger tells him to do.

  77. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 19, 2015, 0:01 #68856

    DW Thomas, great post, everybody re read, then have a cup of tea, than sit down and look out the window and have a good think and read again, post of the day.

  78. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 23:48 #68855

    jw, shusss, it's only rooney and his dirty fouling hoof ball team and others that do that.

  79. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 23:30 #68854

    Hiccup, I'm sure it's been used as an excuse in certain circles to try and cover up and explain away OGL's failings, and such is their love for him and devotion to him they probably believe it, and i'm sure OGL would have loved to have been offered it and would have grabbed it in his post match as he stood squirming and stammering trying to explain going out. I've no doubt if he could swap the two results he would we all know what his priority is, and no doubt his followers would agree with him and back him, after all as far as they're concerned arsene knows best.

  80. goonercolesyboy

    Mar 18, 2015, 23:19 #68853

    Finsbury Joe, give it up mate, stay on your own site. I, along with many just knew we would beat Monaco 2-0 and go out on away goals. Played well and don't go for all this Monaco knew what they were doing, happy to defend...they had no choice as we outplayed them for most of the game. Persistent fouling and time wasting saw them through, which we all know is part of the game nowadays. Something for us to learn from. The squad is very close to being ready to challenge on all fronts. Onwards and upwards.

  81. jeff wright

    Mar 18, 2015, 22:56 #68852

    Just as well Joe Hart was in good form tonight otherwise it would have been a cricket type score for Messi and co. It looked to me as though Aquero dived for his penalty but he then missed when taking it so a case of instant karma at work. What with Sanchez's pathetic dive last night for which he was rightly booked , albeit Wenger abused the ref about that with one of his fraught hysterical rants, it was not a great couple of ties for the last two Prem sides left who had both waved the white flag in their home games to disappear after futile efforts to turn things about out of the Champions League . There was a difference though in the way the two home sides approached things in their respective games,Monaco were happy to sit back and challenge us to score 3 goals although I thought that when on the odd occasions that they ventured forth in attack this caused a bit of panic in our defence and it was noticeable that when the game ended it was with one of their players bearing in on our goal and three of our defenders having to stop him .Barcelona went for goals but due to Hart's saves only managed one ,not hard though to see Messi and co giving our lot plenty of problems had we met them in the next round.

  82. Big Dave

    Mar 18, 2015, 22:37 #68851

    Can someone tell what me Steve Bould does ? Oh he's a Arsenal legend you can't say anything bad about him. I repeat again what does he do

  83. Rocky RIP

    Mar 18, 2015, 21:57 #68850

    I know most of us have learned to ignore the bell that is Finsbury Joe, as he's a sad wind-up merchant from that lot from Middlesex. Beneath contempt. Sometimes he needs to be told to do one. FJ - if Arsenal are so boring, why the flying f do you keep coming on here? Have you no friends at Tottenham to talk through your nostrils to? Tottenham really giving it a go, eh? The have a go heroes, daring to do. The last time Sp*rs made the CL in 2011 (?), were they not spanked 5-0 on aggregate by Real Madrid and dumped out...sorry, 'the great adventure' came to an end and out came the DVD. You keep alluding to this 'shift in the balance of power in North London' when Sp*rs get close to Arsenal, but forget to mention it when it doesn't happen for 19 straight seasons. 1995 (nineteen ninety five) was the last time you finished above us. I'd keep quiet if it was the other way around, but no, like a turd that won't flush you repeatedly resurface to talk about something you claim to be boring.

  84. Ron

    Mar 18, 2015, 21:52 #68849

    He does have a good reputation as a coach does Clement its true. His appt as AWs successor though would be underwhelming. We can all safely assume that it ll be some body who's happy to defer to Wenger. Drab prospect.

  85. HastyBananas

    Mar 18, 2015, 21:51 #68848

    chris 72483 well said,high time they changed the name of this site "Wenger Out" anyone?

  86. Hiccup

    Mar 18, 2015, 21:38 #68847

    MG, I just wonder if wenger is cursing that epic win at OT in that other Cup that has been our downfall in the CL for the last 17 years. Without the exertions of last Monday night and the associated fatigue, we could probably have got through last night. We'll never know I guess. Force f***ing India! Classic!

  87. Finsbury Joe

    Mar 18, 2015, 21:04 #68846

    Arsenal in the Champions League is like Force India in formula one, just glad to be there and make up the numbers, like most of Arsenals fans

  88. Unchives

    Mar 18, 2015, 20:58 #68845

    Great performance from the lads, however the end result is what happens when the manager lets them play only when they feel like it. Roll on the FA Cup.

  89. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 20:44 #68844

    Hiccup, yes indeed, after a win he loves a good handshake he can't get enough even has something to say in between grinning along with a pat on the back, and when he's beat or humiliated he's skulking off down the tunnel shaking his head as if it shouldn't have happened or wasn't right. Ron has summed it/him up well.

  90. Westlower

    Mar 18, 2015, 20:36 #68843

    Mark from Aylesbury, Paul Clement has been to the forefront of the betting all year to be next AFC coach/manager. He's currently 16/1 4th favourite behind Klopp 9/1, TH 12/1, Pep 14/1. Clement has been coaching for 20 years although he's only 43 years old & possesses an impressive CV, working with Gus Hiddink at CFC & Carlos Ancelotti at CFC, PSG & Real Madrid.

  91. jjetplane

    Mar 18, 2015, 20:34 #68842

    'Look at Sagna! He's on the halfway line! Get back!' Talk about wherever I lay my hat. It's all so very FRENCH my dear .... xenwhat?

  92. jjetplane

    Mar 18, 2015, 20:20 #68841

    REBOOT I agree - he has crossed the line now and I am sure the players (the good ones) would also want him out now. Ramsay should become a WOB. CHRIS and BADDIE should peruse that lovely book Sentimental Education ..... 'narf been some clever bastards. That's worth a whirl too.

  93. Hiccup

    Mar 18, 2015, 20:19 #68840

    Surprised the nailed on penalty when Sanchez was tripped in the box hasn't been brought up as an excuse yet? We all know it's only the hoofball teams that cheat by diving and surrounding the ref, and that clean cut Arsenal don't cheat, so it really must have been a penalty. Bloody refs!

  94. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 19:53 #68839

    AJ, it's called egoism and arrogance mate, of the highest order.

  95. jeff wright

    Mar 18, 2015, 19:48 #68837

    Hiccup, the attitude shown by the club reps and Wenger toward Monaco just shows how stupid they really are .You would have thought by now after all that has gone before that these clowns would know better,but some never learn do they >? Anyway time to watch another Prem club try to work a miracle in the Nou Camp and we only had Monaco. You couldn't make it up.

  96. Hiccup

    Mar 18, 2015, 19:33 #68836

    Jeff, but our fans prefer the arrogance and disrespect we show to other teams. That quote of 'how lucky we were to draw Monaco' was probably half the team talk for them done and the licence for our players to turn up for the first leg smoking Jack's cigars. Who wants to hear anything courteous from the club. Much rather hear a disrespectful "we're in the quarters now" whilst blowing smoke in Monaco's face. And who wants to see our manager hanging about shaking hands with everyone. It's all rather more smug when you've won a game and waiting for all the opposition staff to walk past, but on losing it's get the hell out of there asap. And let's hope mertesacker is fined for that atrocious polite outburst that the best team won. Disgraceful behaviour. Does he not know the procedure yet? Admit no liability whatsoever, and where possible blame the ref, the pitch, the opposition for parking the bus, and if all that fails, blame the away goals rule.

  97. Mark from aylesbury

    Mar 18, 2015, 19:07 #68835

    Miles palmer is saying again that Paul Clement is coming in the summer. I do have grave reservations over Miles old beatnik or old fraud take your pick but anybody think there is anything in this? It would obviously block Henry.

  98. jeff wright

    Mar 18, 2015, 18:53 #68834

    Wenger again brought disgrace onto AFC with his churlish attitude over the two legs of the tie against Monaco.This arrogant attitude started straight after the draw was made with gloating comments from club reps about how 'lucky' we were to have got Monaco instead of a top side. Well all I can say is thank the lord we did not get one! You couldn't make it up.As for the game itself deja vu past seasons nothing changes even the excuses are the same ( yawn). Wenger will never win anything in Europe he lacks the tactical nous to do so and he is better off sticking to the FAC and building squads to compete for the Prem title instead of ones designed to try and win in Europe. Anyway he looks too old now and tired has been too long in the comfort zone to lead a successful Prem title bid. He should do the right thing at the end of the season and retire but he won't do because of the money involved and his own arrogance will convince him that he can still cut the mustard at top level. Even though all the evidence says otherwise.

  99. DW Thomas

    Mar 18, 2015, 18:46 #68833

    The fairy tale comment is another in a long line of supreme bs when OGL fails, again! The fairy tale for me is a man having a job at $8 million a year with no accountability for losing to teams with way less power and prestige! The club are satisfied with profits, being in competitions not winning them, and keeping the status quo. The only team that deserves to go through is the one that wins, in whatever manner works. Monaco disgraced us, but it was our own fault. Failure every year, yet many on here lap it up and always will. We hear things like be careful what u wish for or it could be worse. Personally I can't imagine worse than being close to a top club but never getting there. We are sold the lies about the stadium and players leaving. We are told to take it when tickets go up but no improvement in the success of the club. Argue about Ozil, Ramsey, or whoever else. Nothing will change till fans wake up and demand more! Too many are content with failure and 4th place. If we don't win the FA Cup and get second in the PL we have gone backwards. Or at most stagnated badly. The manager is an arrogant know it all who never learns from his continued errors and failures. For that alone he should be put under extreme pressure to win or move on!

  100. Badarse

    Mar 18, 2015, 18:28 #68832

    Bard, now I understand. I've been to a similar lecture when 'MIster Stanley' ,(as we refer to him) was guest speaker. It was just before Xmas and the topic he spoke on was, 'Why we do not need to spend in January'. I forget the gist of the lecture but I think it began with, 'Look into my eyes!' He chatted to us in a very amiable manner and referred to us as buck wits, as we are all financially astute at AKB Central Command, in fact he seemed to mention 'bucks' a lot. We see this as an endorsement of our good work. Westlower won 'customer orientation of the month' yet again that month, and won an old replica Nike Home shirt as his reward. He converted lthirty WOB customers into eleven AKBs, ten RACs, seven Co-Ops, and two RIPs.Goonercolesyboy had a scrap with a hat stand, GoonerRon dozed off and his ciggy set light to the chair's doily-he was admonished because he knows he should only smoke in the shower room. It's good to meet up in these casual and spontaneous events where we can relax and be ourselves, be ourselves, be ourselves, sorry, wiring had a blip.Anyway good to stay in touch, as my friend from Zog just said, 'E/G phone home!'

  101. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 18:16 #68831

    Any word how the big home coming for OGL went at Stansted last night? had he to fight his way through the throng at arrivals? some of his disciples must have been there, no?

  102. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 18:12 #68830

    PH : When you are 3-1 up you play safe, you play percentages, of course Monaco did n't plan to lose 0-2 that is just how it ended up. On the break Monaco were expecting chances and they had a few which they failed to take but sweating or not, which team got through? We played well and controlled the game but this was Monaco not Barcelona and as you correctly said "we paid for the first leg". The knockout stages are decided over 180 minutes not ninety and as we have lost at the two leg stages for the last five years, we clearly are not making any progress, may I suggest that the preparation is the problem.

  103. Peter Hughes

    Mar 18, 2015, 17:50 #68828

    Of course Monaco played for the 0-2. They knew Giroud would get in the way of Alexis allowing the keeper to just keep the ball out. Fair enough we paid for the 1st leg but don't talk utter nonsense. They were hanging on wasting time sweating. Yes they had a safety net but we defended correctly this time. It is frustrating that we can do it (man u & city) but still lapse on occasions. Ramsey seems to have got back now & Ozil will cut teams apart. His confidence is returning & maybe the knee injury he had been carrying earlier in the season restricted him.

  104. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Mar 18, 2015, 17:44 #68827

    Look let me start with Ozil as he's getting battered again!! I actually feel sorry for him mentally. He's confidence is shot. He is not worth 42 million and di Maria is not worth 60 million. They our both inflated prices. I never watched ozil often when he played for Real Madrid. So don't know how he performed there week in week out. Look it's easy to look good when you have world class players around you in every position actually it's easy to look bad as you would get exposed. So he must have been good there!!! The problem is the guy is to weak. He's 5ft11 but looks like a lightweight!!! To physically weak!! Also he's being scapegoated for every loss. That's not fair. Look the match was loss in the first leg obviously. You can't concede three goals at home in the champions league I'm sorry that is not good enough!!

  105. Ron

    Mar 18, 2015, 17:35 #68826

    Mark - agree on that point re Ramsey. I thought the same when he said that as you did. We shouldn't be surprised really that Wengers arrogance has spread to his players. Its an arrogance that been there for at least 12 years. I thought Petitts veiled comments regarding the (in my view) dreaded prospect of Terry Henry following Wenger were quite telling. Hes more or less saying Henry shouldn't be touched with a barge pole as a Coach at this point in time. Got to be correct!

  106. Mark from aylesbury

    Mar 18, 2015, 17:27 #68825

    Two things I'd add . Patrick Barclay suggests we are missing leaders and one way to address this is to replace Wenger. He then goes on to say better option is to get a proper captain but it's that subtle message from a prominent journalist saying its borrowed time. 2nd point Ramsay said with all due respect we did not expect to lose to Monaco. Well exactly there was no respect and therefore little attention paid and quite frankly we got spanked in home game. I cringed when I heard that. Just reminds me of Birmingham City and our very bumpy FA cup adventure of last year. Basically somebody should get them bloody prepared. Despite the good second leg performance reckon long term this has hurt Wenger.

  107. Ron

    Mar 18, 2015, 17:25 #68824

    foxinthebox - i thnk Arsenes comments about Monaco not deserving to go through arent only sour grapes and him being unrealistic and a sore loser but theyre tellin comments about how he would have played had we have been 3-1 up. He says they never had many if any shots. This implies he would have played an adventurous game. It really tells much of why we don't progress far in the big tournies. I think he was a bit lucky last night to win 2-0 tbh. Monaco played it tight, allowed us the ball, didnt venture upfield much unless they were safe to do so for about an hour. At that point they did look dangerous for 10 - 15 mins, they broke with purpose and could have scored with a bit more finesse to their play. As much as we did play OK, in my view a far better team than Monaco would have seen us off and scored. AW is gilding the lily on that performance last night by some distance. It was a sound performance, it wasn't an exciting and excellent performance.In my view it wasn't such as to hang many positives on going forwards, in the PL or Europe next Season as he suggests. Hes very adept at the spin nowadays. A simple ' we were rubbish at home and lost it there' would have gained some respect and got the interviewers off his back. He never learns, much like his team.

  108. Bard

    Mar 18, 2015, 17:21 #68823

    Baddie I have been at the Dark Lords annual conference. Its a jolly affair normally but this year the keynote speech was given by none other than silent Stan,his theme was 'Hair pieces through the ages' followed quickly a comprehensive analysis of how he runs Arsenal. It was short and very succinct. 'Bleed 'em dry' was his rallying cry and then he sat down. I then went to a fascinating lecture on the theme 'When losing a football match is actually a win if you factor in the nuances'. I must admit I felt a tad confused at the end and was unable to get fully up to speed with todays blinding posts.

  109. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 17:16 #68822

    CGO, indeed he would, along with his disciples, it would have been all part of the master plan you know.

  110. exiled&dangerous

    Mar 18, 2015, 16:49 #68821

    Dartford Gooner - if you took 17 girls out you'd be lucky to get a word in all night, never mind anything else........

  111. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 16:34 #68820

    Dartford Gooner, I doubt it, no matter how big a failure he or anybody is if they have £8,000,000 plus a year rolling in to the bank for it they'll not remain a virgin.

  112. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 16:16 #68819

    Henley Gooner, mate, wenger doesn't know how to fooking coach, full stop.

  113. 50 something gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 16:03 #68818

    Another perspective on last night.....Its a competition we were unlikely to win this year or for the last 9 years but we do still qualify each year and earn the cash from it which is not a bad thing. If we can qualify again for it this year we will have secured a good source of cash to invest (hopefully in defence) and make a better fist of the premier league in 15/16. If we can do that and retain the FA Cup then I would guess supporters of other clubs would take your hand off if offered that....

  114. Tony Evans

    Mar 18, 2015, 15:35 #68817

    And which 'ambitious' team would that be, FJ, not your lot down the Lane, surely? At least it would provide some amusement I suppose but it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

  115. Finsbury Joe

    Mar 18, 2015, 15:21 #68816

    Yet another completely spineless capitulation. Thats the light in which the world now sees Arsene FC. Such a shame Arsenals place cannot be taken by a team, even one with significantly less resources, but with bounds more ambition who would really give it a go. Could easily happen for next season and if so, English football would be the winner, not for once the Wenger/Kroenke bank balance. Arsenal are death by extreme boredom, in every manner possible.

  116. foxinthebox2001

    Mar 18, 2015, 15:00 #68813

    "The overall situation is very disappointing but if you look at the game tonight it is very positive. This game is in line with what we have done recently." So please tell us Wenger, how many other games have we played this season where the opponents are perfectly happy to lose 2-0? When will the penny drop? We beat Monaco last night, and Bayern 2 years ago 2-0 on each occassion, but only because they allowed us the time and possession. I knew he wold say in the post match interview that Monaco had no shots on target, I just knew it. That is because they were not interested in scoring, they based their game plan, yes Wenger other teams do have a game plan, on not conceding 3, and they didn't. Here is a suggestion, lets ask EUFA if we get to the last 16 next season, can we play just one leg away, from home instead of two? Then lets see if our opponents want to stand back and let us play. He is delusional.

  117. Badarse

    Mar 18, 2015, 14:59 #68812

    Am happy to align myself with Chris, it's why I too latched onto the xenophobia theme as a confirming post. The person knows who he is, the mask often slips-he who doth protest too much! @Bard try to stay up with matters-heavy night with Helen, or just flying around your estate? By the way my friend from the planet Zog referred to everything said on here-by different posters(many the same)-to criticise AFC, and unlike me who recognises negativity when displayed in human traits, he doesn't. I did ask if he would be happy if AW extended his contract and he just replied, 'To infinity and beyond!'

  118. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 14:51 #68811

    I suppose this latest failure means the FA Cup becomes important and top priority once again?

  119. Seven Kings Gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:55 #68809

    I think we all knew we would win the game but not by enough to go through - if you were Monaco you would have played the percentages knowing that your defence was unlikely to let in 3 goals in any one game, and so it proved. I cannot understand the criticism of Ozil, during the last 10 minutes when we were all firmly in the "madhouse" he kept the ball, kept a pattern of play and when pressured he skilfully managed to create a bit of space for himself and generally helped us keep our shape. The game was lost at home when we played it like a PL game instead of a two leg match - which we have managed to do for the last five seasons with the same result, exit at the knockout stage. It is about preparing for 180 minutes not ninety!

  120. Bard

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:40 #68808

    Chris; the post you were referring to has been deleted so I guess you were probably right. Wenger gets dogs abuse on here from time to time but I dont recall him being French as a problem.

  121. Charlie George Orwell

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:37 #68807

    Am quite sure that if we had progressed through away goals scored, Wenger would be purring smugly 'Them's the rules'.

  122. DJ

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:29 #68806

    Dartford Gooner: I think Arsene’s way of pulling women is similar to the way he approaches the transfer market. He waits until the end of the night, thus saving money not having to buy them any drinks, and then pulls any old boiler he can get his hands on! (not pc correct? Sorry!) Anyway agree with everyone else the game was lost at home and at least I save some money on next seasons season ticket, Arsene would be proud!

  123. Gaz

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:23 #68805

    In other words Chris it was one last desperate attempt to try and buy into Wenger and his ideas. It failed badly...

  124. Ron

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:22 #68804

    Im just wondering from where and when did 'prejudice' raise its head vis such managers as SA and TP? If Club Chairman/owners are cited as showing it, then maybe there's some truth in that but ive never seen it on here, though of course that doesn't mean its hasn't been suggested or implied. Most in football agree that both of those guys are excellent managers, though im sure our esteemed Monsieur W doesn't quite share that view and we all know his reasons for that dont we. Perhaps hes the prejudiced and xenophobic one after all? Its been suggested that he is often enough by media, players and fans down the years. 'Underrated'? Looking at the Clubs the said Coach's have managed, id suggest that neither are or ever have been under rated. Why should they have been. If its not too xenophobic lets consider this - Paisley, Fagan,Ferguson, Barton, Clough, Stein. All British. All Euro Cup/CL winners with British Clubs. Only twice have British Clubs won the CL without a British coach. Maybe a bit of xenophobia wouldn't go a miss to changing things at Arsenal? Has there ever been a truly great French Club Coach anywhere? I cant recall one. Food for thought? Maybe Monsieur Wenger carries too great a private burden that inherently flaws his judgement and thus undermines his personal crusade for AFC?

  125. Gaz

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:08 #68803

    Chris-yep, it really would have been totally different for me because it would have been a change from the norm that I was expecting. As I said I was desperate to feel differently about Wenger but when push came to shove he failed at this level and let me down again. For me thats it now, I just want him gone...

  126. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:03 #68802

    WABATTD, yes everything will have been forgotten we'll have learned (cough) and moved on and everything will be rosy in the garden again, Diaby? we haven't heard about him for a while, only six months? Wow.

  127. Dartford gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:01 #68801

    No one can doubt the effort put in last night, we went close but it all comes back to that awful home leg.On the phone ins people have been saying how well ozil played?. Really? i must have been watching another game. For a player who cost us 42 million how many games has he taken by the scruff of the neck and won for us. I hope he comes good but i fear he will be another Arshavin or Hleb. Turning to Wenger, cast your minds back to your younger days lads, if you took out 17 girls and did not get lucky with any of them would you not look at what you were doing wrong.If Arsene's luck in Europe had carried over into his love life he would be a 64 year old virgin. Lets move on win the FA cup again and judge him in May

  128. Chris

    Mar 18, 2015, 13:00 #68800

    Bard - To be specific - comment 72452 is critiscism of Wenger based primarily on xenophobia. With regards to losing the tie - no arguments there, pal, my point is that to base your opinion on where we stand based on whether we won 2 or 3 nil last night is daft. To put it in a way you may find more agreeable - if Sanchez had scored the third and we'd gone through, wouldn't that merely be papering over the cracks?

  129. barnaby

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:55 #68799

    We fi have to defend better, but with that u will not score as many goals, that is a fact, but id still prefer it because we would stay in certain ties longer

  130. Bard

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:53 #68798

    chris; You do like a bee in your bonnet mate. We are back to your oft quoted argument that the score is not what really counts, its more nuanced than that. We will have to agree to disagree. To my rather limited way of thinking we lost the overall tie, end of story. The other hobby horse is your suggestion that comments criticising Wengers prowess as a manager are down to xenophobia. Thats a new one on me, can you be more specific and I will go back, re read them and get back to you.

  131. Westlower

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:53 #68797

    Ultimately, two open goal misses by Giroud & Welbeck at the Emirates cost us the tie. I'm in agreement with Ron in that if you haven't got a realistic chance of winning the competition it's probably best to go out now rather than a slow lingering death later. There's still 11 massive games left to play this season and loitering in the ECL wouldn't have enhanced our prospects in the other competitions. Over time our best team will emerge, injuries permitting, & we could be on for a strong finish to the season. Wallowing in a cesspit of self pity simply wont achieve sod all. Onwards & upwards my fellow Gooners. Hope springs eternal!

  132. Chris

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:46 #68796

    Gaz - I agree that it's not glorious failure but I actually think Kevin was using the term as if it was in inverts, rather than because he genuinely felt there was glory in what had happened. What is true is that there's an element of restored pride after the first leg. What I can't understand from you, though, Gaz, is why you have previously said that your opinion would change dramatically depending on last night's outcome. If we had scored from the free-kick scenario on 83 mins would things really be so different in terms of 'were we are'? Obviously we'd still be in the CL but other than that...?

  133. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:39 #68795

    There's a lot of talk about losing it or throwing it away in the first leg, so fooking what, if we'd have won the first leg or gave ourselves an advantage knowing OGL we'd have fooked it up under pressure in the return anyway.

  134. Chris

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:35 #68794

    Badarse - Dinosaur is the word! One of them even blamed 'the pundits' for 'turning the game into a science' (i.e. applying analytic thought to understanding what has happened, based on facts about the matches - how very dare they!). Of course, it's not the pundits that have done that - it's the availability of data. We live in the information age and most people will, thankfully, always use new data to enhance their understanding, get an advantage and move things on. They always have - right from prehistoric hunters using information about animal behaviour to their advantage. Refusal to accept this advance is a peculiar form of madness, borne primarily no doubt out of the desire to be able to spout any kind of argument to fit their agenda without fear of being brought up short by those with their fingers o the pulse..... It;s no coincidence that the same ones spout the xenophobic rubbish designed to undermine our manager and have in the past lamented the 'predudice' against 'under-rated' managers like Pulis and Allardyce... The complete picture gets more amusing by the day!

  135. Gaz

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:28 #68793

    How on earth can it be seen as 'glorious failure' when we've just gone out to a side everyone was delighted to draw because they were rightly seen as the weakest side left in the competition! If tottenham had gone out to them in the same way and their fans were calling it a 'glorious failure' we'd be tearing them a new one!!!

  136. exiled&dangerous

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:24 #68792

    John A - but they scored 3 at our place! I've said on previous threads that I don't like the away goals rule, I'd go for "most goals in a single leg" which would have still produced the same result here (3 - 1 beats 2 - 0) but doesn't rely on home/away, which isn't as much of a factor these days. It might also rid the game of teams scoring one goal away and shutting up shop.

  137. Badarse

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:17 #68789

    A conundrum. You absolutely agree with two posts, westlower and Chris-whilst disagreeing with a number who just regurgitate the same critique after every game, or every differing circumstance. You know you cannot influence a closed mind, especially one which bases it's whole outlook on negativity-will always cut the cloth to suit-and dresses it's post with a subtle form of arrogance, and laces the mix with xenophobic dinosaur thinking, and the support acts who basically are poor lost anti-Arsenal stool pigeons. Of course it makes for that conundrum's frustration. Anyway 24601 I was surprised Aaron wasn't starting, and pleased when he came on. Ox is also a first on the team sheet for me when fit, likewise the doubling up of Mesut and Santi- only one at a time please. Alexis is a player who frightens defenders and in so doing opens space for others I think. From day one I have questioned his distribution-he is perhaps the poorest passer in the squad-and often overruns the ball or carries it into trouble. A wonderful asset and who couldn't take to a goal scorer? But am equally sure his teammates recognise his limitations, match winner or not.

  138. Henley Gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:15 #68788

    Interesting that the gist of you report is that "we should defend better" - which I agree. However, there's a quote on Arseblog (sorry) as follows - "Wenger on Bein Sports: "'Monaco were very fortunate over the two legs. We could've got 4 or 5 tonight. We have to be more clinical". Followed by the comment "the manager’s focus is on how we failed to finish says a lot about the way he views the failure to get through against opposition we really should have beaten". Looks like our manager views our elimination down to poor finishing, and not poor defending - but of course it's easier to concede than to score, and in a two legged European tie, you must not concede. Our fundamental problem is that Wenger does not KNOW how to get through a two legged Euro tie - just trying to "play better football" and "score more goals" doesn't work. Anyone really fed up with the way we are totally unable to mount a cavalry charge in the last 10 minutes when we need a goal, whereas every other team in the same position makes me cr*p mself when playing us and need a last minute goal? Shame we couldn't have subbed the whole team with the Palace team from a few weeks ago for the final 10.

  139. jjetplane

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:10 #68787

    Wenger still saying: 'we did not lose'... Er you ****ing did mate and Danny Mills called it when he said arrogance and mental instability are a poor package for success. Bordering on the xenophobic - you could not make it up! May the best French team win. They did. Wenger is over and in the throes of a busted dictatorship. Interesting now to watch the behaviour of Ozil and Sanchez. Who wants my shirt is a story in itself. Bit chilly today down by the Channel ....

  140. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 12:10 #68786

    Buy proper defenders and coach the team as a unit? the perfect solution alright (and how long have we been saying it) but under this old past it manager? he has neither of them in him and never had.

  141. maguiresbridge gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 11:57 #68784

    It was always going to be Glorious Failure Kev, nothing else, even with this sudden burst of optimism after a couple of run of the mill results. If only this old past it manager and his brood could play with pressure and there's something to lose. That's the end of his pursuit of his Holy grail yet again (is that a record?) lets hope it's the end of him and he doesn't dream up something stupid like having another go.

  142. jjetplane

    Mar 18, 2015, 11:51 #68783

    Agree with WeSTIE that Ramsay should have started and also that under Wenger the team has just got softer and softer all over the park. Ozil was probably more combative than a few of the players in the side but he looked very uncomfortable with his role. Perhaps he just knows he has signed up with a club that exaggerates his own perceived shortcomings. Under a coach like Rodgers he would probably be amazing. Monaco did a number on Arsene FC in both legs and if they had attacked more as they did on the hour for a few minutes they would have scored. Fact is they knew they could hold a fairly soft team off and get the desired result their way. That is being coaching clever. Maybe glorious is the right word if we attach it to a pathological culture of hubris that makes the likes of Giroud think he is in some ****ing Homeric tragedy. The boy is embarrassing. Onward the weekend and more Pl circus tricks! Funny seeing old Petit there last night. A PL titan but an also-ran under Wenger in the Euro stakes. Scholes got it right that such a 'big club' should not be in such a position in the first place. They have been - for ****ing years!

  143. Alsace

    Mar 18, 2015, 11:50 #68782

    "Buy better defenders, coach the team as a unit how to defend their goal (positional discipline?), and prepare for each opposing side" . IT'S NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK IS IT? Overall, I'm not disappointed. We didn't get our arsenals handed to us in a bag by Barca or Real Mathrith, and we seem to be building some sort of confidence as a side. Of course that depends for the meantime on Coquelin staying fit and being selected. Our biggest worry is Wenger, because the team is improving as individuals all over the pitch. If we can actually build on this season that will be something, but in our heart of hearts we know it's all built on sand. OGL WILL find a way to screw it up. Let's hope not before the end of the season though.

  144. Gaz

    Mar 18, 2015, 11:36 #68781

    Don't normally disagree with you Kev but you're being far too kind on Wenger here. We've just gone out to a side every single fan was delighted at face g as they were just about the weakest side left in the competition. There's absolutely no glorious failure here just faure. Wengers had 17 years to crack this and despite money no longer being an issue we've just suffered our worst European defeat under him. The whole point of moving was to see us competing at the top table of European football yet once again we're relying on a domestic competition that none of the top clubs take seriously. I'll say this again as its really important. If you want a change at this club you want a change of manager. It really is as simple as that...

  145. Ron

    Mar 18, 2015, 11:04 #68779

    Hi Kev - what was 'glorious' about losing to a team who we had disrespected in the first game? It was abject failure in truth. I think you know it too.

  146. Chris

    Mar 18, 2015, 11:02 #68778

    What a load of rubbish this business about Wenger being arrogant and rude is. Some of it, on the other thread, is almost pure xenophobia. I agrre with him that over all, it's debatable in the extreme whether Monaco were the better team. We massively outplayed them last night whereas in the first leg we could easily have had three or more ourselves - and if we'd had even one more, we wouldn't have left ourselves so exposed. I'd be more concerned if he took it in his stride. And there's obviously some beef with that Jardim follow - who hasn't exactly revealed himself to be the great sportsman himself. I would rather have a manager who goes about things in a positive way and is not he most gracious in defeat (Wenger) than one who practices gamesmanship to the nth degree and then is hypocritical enough to say the right things and make himself out to be ultimate sportsman afterwards (Mourinho). As for Mert - he should be bloody contrite, after all it was his bout of defending like David Luiz in the first leg that got us knocked out. Shame he didn't play like Liz at the other end in the second.... All this sporting talk is b*llocks - it's how you play the game that counts if you're judging sportsmanship.

  147. AMG

    Mar 18, 2015, 11:01 #68777

    Westlower - Definitely agree with your assessment of Ozil and Cazorla taking something away from each other, it's something some of us have been saying for ages, play one or the other, Ozil in my view would be first choice despite Santi's recent good form. Best attacking line up in my view is Alexis, Ozil, Ramsey, Ox with Giroud if lower to mid-table opposition - Welbeck if top 6 opposition. Ozil really does look a completely different animal along side Ramsey, not sure what it is about the Welshman that brings out the best in him, probably his athleticism compared to Cazorla.

  148. Smithy

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:54 #68776

    When is diaby's testimonial ? Just asking so we can pencil it in our diaries. As to last night there is nothing new to say- in Europe you need a good defence, excellent shield player in front of the back four and a brilliant work rate winning the ball back. Arsene has never understood the true tatics of defence, his philosophy is akin to Kevin keegans- we will score one more than you!

  149. Bard

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:54 #68775

    King Jeremy; I agree about the striker situation but it could also be applied across the park, The higher the level the less mistakes you can make and the more tactically astute you have to be. I thought we played quite well last night but certainly didnt look like one of Europe's top sides by a country mile. Part of the problem is the PL which whilst entertaining in a sort of keystone cops way is devoid of high level encounters. On a separate note I cant get my head around the Ozil bashing. I thought he put in a shift last night and took responsibility for trying to run the game. Alexis was pants and just ran around like a headless chicken giving the ball away almost every time he got it.

  150. Westlower

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:51 #68774

    The team has loads of finesse but lacks real power. My major disappointment was Ramsey not starting as the team looks better balanced when he plays & we miss his late runs allied to his shooting ability. In future the best Arsenal team will have Ox & Ramsey as permanent fixtures. Ozil & Cazorla take something away from each others game, let one or the other pull the strings in midfield, they both can't do it. The enigma is Alexis. Does his tremendous work-rate make up for him losing the ball nearly every time he tries to dribble through a packed defence. I'm not sure his team mates trust giving him the ball anymore because it seldom gets returned to them. For all Theo's short comings he gets himself into goal scoring positions & his runs are more predictable than Alexis to receive passes. I believe our best attacking options are Giroud, Welbeck, Ox, Ozil, Ramsey. It's not all doom & gloom as we've won 8 out of our last 9 games & the fixture list in uncluttered before the final push to the end of the season. Let's not waste our breath talking about getting rid of Wenger because it simply won't happen until the summer at earliest.

  151. chris dee

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:45 #68773

    Please,please.Glorious failure?Give us a break,this was not a one off final where we were unluckily beaten,this was the second leg of the last 16 in the Champions League which we screwed up in the first leg.Glorious failure?No ,a winnable tie frigged up. A top four finish and the F A Cup is a must for it to be a successful season.

  152. Charlie George Orwell

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:43 #68772

    Excellent summary again, Kevin. Out of a competition that Arsenal will never properly compete for under Wenger. Also fully expect the 'Dunkirk' viewpoint from many: It wasn't a defeat - in a way it was a stunning victory.

  153. John A

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:35 #68771

    Sour grapes I know but the away goals rule really annoys me. So its 3-3 at the end of 180 minutes. We score 2 at their place and they don't score any, but despite scoring 1 at home we go out. Fairer way would be an extra 30 minutes and then pens. I know I know sour grapes lost again doh.

  154. AJ

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:31 #68769

    Wenger is undoubtedly an intelligent man but, for one so cerebral, he is a stunningly poor learner! One of the key themes that I shall remember from the Wenger years is Arsenal making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

  155. King Jeremy

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:17 #68768

    Those games also have another theme in common and that is taking your chances in the CL. As strong as the defence needs to become, it will be to no avail if things are not sharper at the other end. We are out this year partly due to the defence but also, in equal measure, due a certain individuals inability to hit the proverbial cow's arse with a certain musical instrument during the first leg. It was also evident last night that, sadly, Welbeck just isn't up to it at this level. You get two, maybe three good chances per game at this level and a one-in-six mechant just isn't going to cut it. As higly as I regard Giroud, the Telegraph summed him up perfectly after the West Ham game by calling him a "flat-track-bully". If we harbour genuine CL ambitions, we need to find that lethal finisher. I thought Ozil had his best game in a Arsenal shirt last night and paradoxically Sanchez one of his worst/least effective.

  156. aj

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:16 #68767

    Better defenders? Maybe but the real key comes from organization and strategy, as you suggest. Arsene Wenger believes that nobody can teach him anything about coaching a football team but Charles Darwin could certainly have taught him plenty about being a winner in a competitive environment. Darwin said that the species which adapt best to a changing environment will have the greatest competitive advantage and the species with the greatest competitive advantage will be the most successful. Wenger's insistence on Arsenal playing every game his way and not paying attention to the opposition flies in the face of these well-accepted principles. Gary Neville describes him as being arrogant and disrespectful in making no allowance for the qualities of Arsenal's opponents. A sensible strategy for playing a two-legged tie, when the first leg is at home is to set the prime target as 0 goals against for the first leg. A 0-0 result in the first-leg of recent UCL knockout games would have seen Arsenal through on most occasions, instead of being knocked out in all of them. On a final point, I wish people would stop knocking Ozil - you couldn't resist the temptation in the article above. Paul Scholes's pathalogical hatred of Mesut Ozil, which he has been spouting for weeks now really poisoned the ITV commentary last night and seemed to infect all the other pundits too. Ozil is the guy who keeps the ball circulating; he is one of the few who can manipulate the ball in very tight positions and who is prepared to make killer passes that can lead to goals. They don't all come off but they do have a greater chance of success than always playing the safe pass - remember Denilson? John Cross gave Ozil 8/10 and I would agree with that.

  157. Red Member

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:09 #68766

    very predictable outcome when you have a specialist in failure in charge. still never mind if we finish in the top 4 we can do this all over again next season

  158. Torbay gooner

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:07 #68765

    I had us down for a 2-1 win and with the pressure off we produced another 'Bayern' away performance. However, that's 3 consecutive years where we have lost the first leg home tie by 2 goals, making the 2nd leg largely irrelevant. Wear your colours, what is actually the point of being in this competition under this current manager? How will we do better next season for crying out loud?? As has been pointed out by numerous poster's the manager's record in this competition is appalling!!

  159. Roy

    Mar 18, 2015, 10:00 #68764

    Fair summary, Kev. The concession of that third goal in the first leg was nothing short of criminal and Wenger should have been on his feet screaming at them to just see it out after the Ox scored, then we may have got away with a very bad day at the office. The fact it was that goal that proved to be the difference and which was totally avoidable sticks in the craw. OGL has learnt nothing from the previous seasons in pursuit of his holy grail as your stats point out ( as if we needed reminding ! ) For what it's worth, even if we had pulled off the miracle last night, I don't think there's many on here who genuinely believe that we would have got any further due to the very shortcomings that you have stated. All of which tied in very pertinently with something else you said, so I'm glad you didn't leave it out - that being that we will never win the CL under this manager. I can't believe anyone seriously thinks otherwise, but I know they are out there ! Heroic failure nothing - the truth is that man for man we are better than Monaco and we f****d it up. Still, it would have hurt more if we had actually stood a chance of winning the thing.

  160. Bard

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:58 #68763

    As usual good report Kev. Not sure I share your notion of the 'penny dropping' , I cant for the life of me see whats changed. We do have these good games and good runs but then it all goes tits up in spectacular fashion. I read with interest that Wenger doesnt think Monaco deserved to go through and therein lies the problem. Deserving to , being entitled to dont have any part to play in sport. Arsenal didnt win because they completely f***** up the first leg end of story. if they manager cant grasp that basic tenet then how will the team.

  161. Fozzy

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:56 #68762

    Shame that Walnutt was anonymous when he came on. Was he under orders to drift around aimlessly in the middle of the park or does he still fancy himself as a striker? Or does he just fancy himself?

  162. GoonerRon

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:54 #68761

    Good performance but ultimately futile. I wonder whether this might be the tie that finally makes the penny drop for Wenger and how to perform in Europe. The previous exits against Barca and Bayern weren't necessarily down to suicidal defending, but more our defenders coming up against higher quality players who were just better than us and were fully expected to win through. This tie was different as our squad was comparatively better and we really shot ourselves in the foot. I agree with Tony Evans that there have been tentative signs of our dynamic changing over the last 3 or 4 months and we have to continue developing this side of our game. For me, we're undoubtedly a better team than over the last few seasons and if you look at the incomings over the last 2 years, we've turned over a large number of players and are addressing certain issues that have held us back previously. Totally frustrating tie overall but I still feel we are generally improving. 20 wins in the last 25 is also nice.

  163. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:44 #68760

    Groundhog Day......same s**t, different day. Still, Newcastle will be dispatched on Saturday, and everything in the garden's rosy again. Just think, with two or three new players, we could be challengers again. Only six months to go before the return of Diaby.

  164. Wear Your Colours

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:39 #68759

    Bitterly disappointing to be so close yet so far again. I thought the team really played well as a unit last night. Monaco played with a forest of bodies at the back and it was difficult to create opportunities. Yet we continued to be patient, to move the ball, look to create angles and open them up. I thought Ozil gave an impressive performance, always available for his team mates, never hiding and keeping every move flowing. Unfortunately, that little bit of luck that every successful side needs just did not shine on us last night. Now the focus is to qualify for it again and do better in the competition next season. COYG!

  165. Rob

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:37 #68758

    Wenger's had more opportunities in European football than all other Arsenal Managers combined. But he's never won anything and never looks like winning anything. By contrast Bertie Mee and GG both triumphed. If Arsenal are to add to their past successes they surely need someone, who realises that approaching two leg European ties, requires a different outlook from run of the mill EPL games ?

  166. lance peters

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:23 #68756

    we had the right plan last night and in the end it was a game we could have won. what got us knocked out was wengers substitution. welbeck was our most dangerous player last night and his speed was getting him past the defenders , yet wenger subs him whilst leaving ozil and sanchez on because they are "big names" who were having a very poor game. Ramseys goal was not due to Walcott it was due to the defender who made a bad clearance.WENGER OUT

  167. AMG

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:20 #68755

    Pretty good summary, could be shortened to 'same sh1t, different year'. Does anyone really think we would have been so dominant if the first leg had been an Arsenal win or a draw. It's a fallacy to simply point to these second leg performances and say we were nearly good enough, the fact is, the opposition win these games in the first leg and play out an energy saving defensive game in the second, knowing that Arsenal don't have what it takes in the big moments to get what's required. Sure it makes it look like a great performance from Arsenal each time, but that's largely instigated by the approach of the opposition. Monaco might have been the exception this year, with their comparatively poor squad, however a lack of quality in the key positions has cost us again. Not content with simply missing chances, old Olivier has taken to preventing team mates from taking them too... Oh well, there's always next year... snore!

  168. Tony Evans

    Mar 18, 2015, 9:15 #68754

    In complete agreement with you Kevin. We simply have to defend better and show a more mature and pragmatic approach to these type of two legged matches. The old saying 'once bitten twice shy' just doesn't seem to feature with Wenger, as defensive mistakes and naivety are never very far away from any team Wenger sends out in to the fray. There are tentative signs that the penny is starting to drop but we still have a long way to go to fully convince me. I will also mention again Wenger's appalling rudeness and arrogance in defeat which does himself and Arsenal no credit whatsoever. A little bit of humility and learning from defeat is what's called for - starting right now.