The Kind of Showpiece Final Arsenal Need To Aspire To

Online Ed: Stade De France was nine years ago



The Kind of Showpiece Final Arsenal Need To Aspire To


I was fortunate enough to be in attendance at the Champions League Final in Berlin’s impressive (even allowing for the running track) Olympiastadion yesterday evening, and it gives me an excuse to post some fresh content on the site.

It struck me that since Barcelona played Arsenal nine years ago, the fortunes of the two sides have changed dramatically. Barcelona had not appeared in the final for 12 years then, the Gunners never. The Champions League format has allowed the two sides to continue participating in the tournament habitually ever since. History tells us that Barca were a team on the rise, Arsenal about to decline. The Catalans have appeared in three finals in the following nine campaigns, winning every one. They have also made a number of semi-finals. The Gunners, in the same time, have made a solitary semi in 2009.

The move to the new stadium is the most obvious reason for the gap in achievements between the two sides, although there are certainly other factors. However, the bottom line can be reflected in the purchase of Luis Suarez. Barca paid £75 million for a player that was banned for the early part of the season. Arsenal, with the player in the same position, wouldn’t go to the £55 million that would have secured him a year earlier, once it became apparent that the reputed £40 million release clause was anything but. The Gunners ended up shelling out £42 milliion for Mesut Ozil instead, which is not a bad thing, but wasn’t what they needed to win the title.

The simple fact is that Barcelona still have more resources than the Gunners, although the current ban on transfer activity invoked by FIFA means the Catalan side cannot use it to buy new players this summer (or strengthen last January). It’s a chance to catch up, and viewers of last night’s final can judge for themselves how big the gap is.

The game itself was corker for a European final, aided greatly by Rakitic’s early goal. The replacement for the departing legend Xavi does not score often, but looks well worth the £18 million transfer fee reputedly paid to Sevilla to secure his services. On the quality of the first half chances, the game could have been dead and buried by the interval, but as a spectacle, that Juventus had the opportunity to make a game of it in the second half turned it into an excellent football match. Their attack got their act together and after a well-worked equalizer, for a brief spell they looked like the more likely winners. The game was far more open than many a European final and there was some enthralling football as a consequence. The atmosphere was cracking throughout, with both sets of supporters highly vocal. In truth, I don’t think the kind of regular attendees at Arsenal matches (who would get final tickets) would ever make this kind of racket, a reflection that the more vocal type of supporter has gradually been priced out of the game in England. You can disguise this on TV with the use of volume levels on microphones to amplify the slightest buzz, but in the flesh, nobody’s fooled.

Barcelona fathomed the better chances and were more clinical, although with better finishing, Juve could have won the trophy. At 2-1 down, they created enough opportunities to have taken the game to extra time, but it was not to be. Neymar’s goal was the final kick of the final and largely academic. Xavi came on for a triumphant send off, whilst Andrea Pirlo, playing his final game for Juventus, suffered the unhappy ending, although he has plenty of winners’ medals to look back upon. Both players will be a great loss to the game. Luis Suarez scored the decisive goal, but ultimately, his finishing wasn’t the best for the rest of the match.

Barcelona do defend pretty tightly under Luis Enrique, and the bottom line is that they have arguably three of the four best attacking players in the world in their line-up. It is almost literally irresistible. Suarez is the oldest at 28, which suggests there may be another three seasons with this attack, and with that strikeforce, I wouldn’t bet against them defending the trophy.

They aren’t the same side that beat Arsenal in two consecutive seasons in 2010 and 2011. Without Xavi, there is a little less of the tikka takka, and they are gradually evolving, with more goals being scored at pace rather than defences being systematically picked apart with precision passing (although the opening goal showed they can still score this way). The speed of the forward line is something that Arsenal might need to consider when weighing up how to beat the very top sides in Europe. Arsene Wenger certainly has quick players at his disposal, although this side of their game is not seen often. Perhaps it is time to evolve, as Barca have done. The game doesn’t stand still for anyone.

Juventus played brilliantly to eliminate Real Madrid in their semi, but asking them to overcome Spain’s other major force on top of that proved a little too much. Nevertheless they contributed to a memorable final. For a number of the players that took part last night, the season isn’t over. There is the round of Euro2016 qualifiers, whilst the Copa America means some of the South American players will be playing on July 4th. The Emirates Cup arrives three weekends later for those who might think the close season is a bit on the long side…

I will be writing occasionally over the course of the summer to keep the website simmering. For those that do want a complete break from football, see you in August!

The Annual Gooner Survey will be online in the next few days

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

The current issue of The Gooner, a 64 page cup final special for £3 can be bought online here.

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162
comments

  1. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 19:59 #72009

    jj, Ron, R/K, nice posts, thank you for stirring the dormant memories.

  2. jjetplane

    Jun 13, 2015, 19:55 #72008

    Nice one R/K the torn jeans look was de rigeur in the 80s which was where I was coming from. Funny enough I was a psychobilly at the time though did the punk, skin, hippy thing like most post 50 kids ... Got some Lurkers tunes in my library along with the Dolls/Thunders but when I was younger I was a big time Sabbath and Zeppelin fan along with Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder! Baddie I had all that through the 60s and at one point we were in a 'last tenement standing' situ that even made the papers! re your last line I once ran off with a girl to a faraway place and to do that she ditched her girlfriend ha ha Now where were we. Ah yes Band of Brothers - incredible music and opening credits to that. RK you were a bluesy rock man and I remember a friday night in a field nearly half a century ago watching Rory Gallagher on stage at Reading. Think Zappa and Santana were also on that weekend bill which was more my buzz. That was my first festival with no tent/sleeping bag/jacket but did have lots of hair then! Rock on! Think we are talking a couple of years after winning the league at that place .....

  3. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 13, 2015, 19:44 #72007

    Ron, 75948,75950, sounds like they were AKB's.

  4. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 18:53 #72006

    This is for jj. The bombed debris' were adventure playgrounds before there was such a thing. In the mid 50s as a tiddler the war was just history, like the Romans and Shakespeare to me, so had no real concept of death and the sadness it brought. We were rascals. We'd climb over the fence into Fox's yard after the barrows had been put away. Then we'd grab loads of taters and skip over to the nearby debris. All of us would scour for scrap wood and a bigger boy would produce a match and soon a fire would be roaring. We'd shove the taters into the ashes and all congratulate ourselves on a well-oiled operation. SAS? They could have learnt a trick or two from us. The taters came out-always had a bone in the middle-no salt, no butter, but a joy to scoff them in a group. The blueprint of the species was already in place as kids-great to eat together as a team. It's still wonderful to eat with friends and family. Wife baking a Mediterranean flan right now, sun-dried toms, olives, garlic bread, rocket salad. Minervois red open on the table, me warming up with a Tetley's in my Arsenal glass listening to Andrea Bocelli, (too loudly)-that was for R/K. Anyway that little ragamuffin on the debris munching away, grazed knees, scruffy clothes, dirty nails, grubby mush, and a happy smile as wide as the Rotherhithe Tunnel. We'd clamber over poorly erected fences supposedly guarding whole derelict and destroyed buildings, and blocks of flats. We'd wander the rooms of the flats, some without walls, on the outer of the building. Nearly fell off the 3rd floor when I tried to encourage a kid to step from one block to another and halfway across he panicked. Had no idea that little families had perhaps died there a few years earlier, or the sacrifices made so that this little street urchin could bugger about in what was once their homes. The squares were no longer squares, just weed overgrown battlegrounds for us-cowboys and Indians, or English and Germans. Stinging nettles were a nuisance but the tumbledown parts of the block and the flora made great hiding places. You'd perhaps hear the Goons 'Ying Tong' song blaring out from somewhere, and life was good and endless. Must end with this, we occasionally walk with a lesbian group!!

  5. radfordkennedy

    Jun 13, 2015, 18:23 #72005

    JJ..You where years before your time fashion wise mate 'torn levis',very much in vogue now it would appear,funny isn't it if I'd taken a girl home who was wearing torn jeans my old mum would have put newspapers down.as far as the punk thing goes I was really and still am just an old rock n roller..skyward,quo,bad company,dave edmunds etc,but I did like a band and I don't know if you remember them called the Lurkers from over the water Fulham way I think,they sounded a bit like the new York dolls,but in tune,very much influenced by johnny thunders I think

  6. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 16:07 #72004

    Hi R/K. Sounds a great way to get a pint. Wave dodging was a pastime for us as kids. Wandering around with wet plimsolls was just the price you paid for being too cocky and daring. I did climb a 40 foot sheer wall on the prom once in summertime. I got to the top able to put one hand up onto the lip of the wall but couldn't find a grip. Lots of peeps stopped realising I was having trouble, but no one did anything. I called to my chum to go up the steps and guide my hand to a place to get a grip. He did, I grasped it, took a deep breath and tried to pull myself up enough to get a second hand onto something. I was too embarrassed to call for help. I found a cranny and up I went, grazing knees, elbows, chin, arriving on top breathless and shaking like a leaf. Then I realised I was King of the World-which lasted for a few seconds, but the memory is permanent, and always just around the corner of my mind.

  7. jjetplane

    Jun 13, 2015, 16:04 #72003

    Great stuff Baddie and know the Downs weli particularly the area you mention though now even happier taking a coast bus ride to Brighton for a day for a bit of Kulture and too much food. few years back also spent a year or two in Exeter and joined a walking club and every saturday we would take a bus for some moorland walking or down to Cornwall for the coastal trails. We would do 15 to 25 miles and it was amazing stuff and as others have said, treat nature with respect and if you see a good wall, get behind it before the hail comes ... Like yer stuff about the bomb sites and where we lived in Islington (where else) as kids was mighty feral and looking back there were a lot of sheaf knives and the odd slug gun in amongst the seemingly continuous bonfires. It all got torn down but it is still as lairy as ever. And then there was Charlie George ....

  8. radfordkennedy

    Jun 13, 2015, 15:51 #72002

    Badarse... Forgot to mention on the subject of sands and tides,one of my favourite pubs in the world is the Pilchard Inn on Burgh island just across a short Causeway from Bigbury on sea down in Devon,the locals very much enjoy cheering on someone wishing to beat the rapidly incoming tide either on foot or in a car,some make it but not all,if you want to leave the pub when the tides Inn you have to use the sea tractor,or indeed go to the pub by the same means what a stylish way to go for a pint of the islands own beachcomber bitter

  9. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 15:39 #72001

    You are an interesting chap jj, memories are swirling around now. My brother is very bohemian and came back from the Netherlands many times with different peeps in tow with intentions of walking the Ridgeway and other 'Acorn' walks. Once he took me! Young bro guiding the older. We caught the train to Eastbourne and walked the South Downs Way together. Those few days were the best ever memories of us as a pair. We went the Seven Sisters' route and had magical occurrences. They were shooting the TV programme, 'She Devil' up in the lone house which overlooks the cliff. Have a couple of snaps of the Lighthouse and the two windmills, Jack and Jill, still hanging on my wall. Devil's Dyke, wow! Leave me alone yesterday!

  10. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 15:23 #72000

    That's right Ron. My brother had a Diana. Sheaf knives. In London in the late 50s we wore them on our belts! It was common. We'd stand facing each other on the bombed 'debris' and throw the knife at the other kid's foot, taking turns and trying to get as close as we could to make the other kid move his foot. Zany! Never did the scout thing as was very anti-military, and anti-organisations, in fact anti-anything conventional (if I knew it was a convention). More of a guerrilla than a soldier, ha ha.

  11. jjetplane

    Jun 13, 2015, 15:15 #71999

    Ha ha you got my brain cascading memories of being on the Pentland Hills in punk t-shirt and torn levis and being told by the doctor 'you got a wee exposure out there - lucky the weather wasnae for turning.' Stomach cramps and felt like **** for a week. Travelled all over NE and NW (swam in every lake/tarn/river ... lived and worked in both areas though was never a mountain man but had many other amazing trips out on The Hebrides/Orkneys/Cairgorns. Used to live and work up there too. As we all say - happy days and it's great to have the memories. Only do marginal cliff and beach walks now but just being 'out there' is enough. Anyway - anyone got anything on Chambersgate and will Jack (the most dedicated supporter Arsenal has ever seen..)get the ban he thoroughly deserves if people would only take the time to revisit the crimescene ... Used to cycle out of Carlisle to places like Brampton and Burgh on Sands and now remembering Agri Arms at Penrith which was quite an establishmnet. Great times, great people. I am assuming you have had a few jars in the Biggmarket on yer travels RON. The Blackie Boy .... got escorted off a train at York once for being somewhat .... still merrily singing Arsenal Arsenal Arsenal (keep it simple... ).

  12. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 15:10 #71998

    Went to Dunkirk-not for the war 'thing', just found myself on the beach walking with friends. Very poignant if you connect that part of your brain. I was amazed by other things though. The prom was very clean and well cared for. They had a cage for footie, basketball courts, permanent-standing table tennis tables (years before they ever made an appearance in England), and all free! Another aspect of the French culture was young topless girls on the sand, with lads nearby all behaving and acting quite naturally. It was like a breath of fresh air. Oh, I did once go up Otley Chevin as a nipper, with a cousin. Went up it in baseball boots-all the rage in the late 50s and early 60s.

  13. Ron

    Jun 13, 2015, 15:06 #71997

    Ha. Baddie . Yes, slug guns eh. I had a Diana 15 when i was about 14. So common guns werent they. Sheath knives too. Did you have one? Had to be well balanced and bone handle! We all had them for scouts purposes, but far better usage for whittling bows and arrows all day long and of course for playing 'chicken'.

  14. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 14:52 #71996

    Hi Ron, never a big Airfix kid, got my fingers stuck together every time-good job I wore mittens. My young brother was an Airfix fiend though. Yes models suspended from the ceiling was typical in most kid's bedrooms. My brother then found by sticking a hot sewing needle in the fuselages and wings it created a strafing effect. An odd child as next he set some on fire and took photos of them. Had he been born in recent times he may have become a film maker or something, by using modern technology-a young Nick Parks perhaps. We did spend time shooting at the suspended ones with our slug guns; I had a Webley which looked impressive but my air rifle, with a snap down barrel, was far more accurate. Mum never knew what us two urchins got up to.

  15. Ron

    Jun 13, 2015, 14:50 #71995

    Baddie - The flotilla! Yes, moving wasnt it. The beaches the other side have a resonance about them dont they, even for us who in truth are clueless of what it must have been like. Can sort of 'feel' the ghosts type of thing?

  16. Ron

    Jun 13, 2015, 14:38 #71994

    You mention the Dornier there. Puts me in mind of my Airfix modelling days as a kid. Making em and painting them and then hanging them off the bedroom ceiling with my finest fishing line. Luftwaffe at one end. RAF at the other. Happy days! Loved it.

  17. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 14:00 #71993

    Hi R/K. Yeah they did get an airing. My '71 replica was worn almost non stop for around 10 -12 days. I did keep washing and re wearing but I guess most peeps thought,'Wow he is committed,(or should be), because he's still wearing that yellow Arsenal shirt.' Busy time for you I think. I saw the 'small ships' flotilla on it's way to Dunkirk-it touches a nerve when you see little people bravely trying to do the right thing. Heroes one and all. May happen on the Online Gooner one day.

  18. radfordkennedy

    Jun 13, 2015, 13:52 #71991

    Badarse... Hello mate trust you are well,I didn't know about the Dornie,can only assume it was on its way back from a raid on London...I hope those homemade yellow rosettes got an airing recently good luck fella nice to hear from you again

  19. Badarse

    Jun 13, 2015, 11:29 #71989

    R/K and Ron. Goodwin Sands have wrecks beneath those shifting sands. They have discovered a plane, a Dornier 17 virtually intact underneath the sands by using sonar, I think. It is supposed to be intact, or very close to perfectly complete. There are trips arranged for a 'Walk on the Sands'. Though people have been known to independently visit. Some get out of their boat, walk around a bit, perhaps build a sandcastle, set up a picnic blanket probably, then are surprised by the tide quickly covering the sands and they find themselves in difficulties. Any I meet I advise to go mountain climbing and hill walking. Being a Darwinian man I kind of try to do my bit towards natural selection.

  20. radfordkennedy

    Jun 12, 2015, 20:28 #71988

    Ron..tough boys indeed mate glad they're on our side,the only way I'd want to visit that area of Oz is in an armoured car,as you say too many things to eat you alive!.canoeing, rafting love all that,but I couldn't do that pot-holing mullarkey my bottle would go,but I can understand the rush the ladies and gents who do it get.

  21. Ron

    Jun 12, 2015, 19:08 #71987

    R/K - thats good stuff. Always a treat when you post. Yes, ive heard of the Goodwin sands phenomena. Obviously the sea is your domain. Im never overly keen ha. Give me a mountain anyday of the week for the reasons you mention. You see those types up Snowdon, though thats a peak i avoid now as too many tourist idiots on it. They go up with trainers on, shorts etc and no kit. There shd be checks however its done, even if rudimentary ones. On Tryfan, the yearly stats for falls, deaths and incidents up there is frightening yet the guy i mentioned earlier, he was up there on the worst face of it having lost his bearings on the walk he thought he was going on with a little lass who cdt have been older than 14. No food, little water, inadequate boots, no torch even, no map and no proper wet coat and in October. The freaky summer type weather in the AM had fooled him. 'It ll never happen to me syndrome' isnt it. They were lucky it cleared how it did that afternoon. Mobiles were off limits and he d lost the plot for sure. It was worrying to be with them, not having spare kit ourselves. My mates singing/mouth organ solo's saved the day and made the kid laugh. In fact i think the storm was frightened off by it!! Northern Territories? Always sounds like a place you might get eaten! Id love to go there. Ive seen the Aussie marine set up and the training there on TV a few weeks back actually. Some truly tough chaps amongst them. I wdt like to fight em R/K!!

  22. radfordkennedy

    Jun 12, 2015, 17:47 #71986

    Ron..your bang on there mate about some people not being aware of their surroundings,the rescue people in Windermere are sick of risking their own safety to go and get usually a husband and wife who've gone out walking in shorts and desert boots and armed with nothing more than a can of vimto and a wagonwheel.There are parts of the northern territories in Australia that you can't can't go to unless you have a permit which proves that your competent to look after yourself in such difficult terrain,it's where they train the Aussie special forces,I think it would be an idea to do the same here especially where you went and in Scotland too.It's the same at sea mate especially an area in eastern approaches called Goodwin sands you wouldn't believe the amount of people who've only just got their masters ticket who've come a cropper there,apart from the ever shifting sands beneath the waves there's a number of wrecks out there, a dangerous place for the inexperienced,indeed I don't know if the cargo has been removed now but there's a wreck of an old Us navy ship outhere that was packed to the Gunnels with ammunition and I can tell you if it ever went up they would have re-do the A-Z in Dartford!!

  23. Ron

    Jun 12, 2015, 16:54 #71985

    R/K - Absolutely right that. Seasons can change by the hour! I ve had similar in Snowdonia mate. Got up just short of the top of Tryfan last October and night descended upon day at 2.00 pm for an hour or so until storm clouds past. It was hairy and one or two up there were losing the plot a bit. Bloke and his young Daughter in particular as they didnt want to hole up and sit it out and let it pass due to dark coming down anyway at 4 ish in Autumn. Its a harrowing feeling isnt it as you say and it can be hard to keep yr concentration and stick to what you know. You see so many up there who dont respect nature and wont accept that when nature gets gruesome, we re just specs of nothingness. Its great though isnt it guys! Good to chat re this stuff. Beats footie hands down!!

  24. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 12, 2015, 15:56 #71983

    Alsace, and that day can't come soon enough and then hopefully we can be a serious club again and more importantly be taken seriously again.

  25. Tony Evans

    Jun 12, 2015, 14:23 #71980

    radfordkennedy - reminds me of my experience on top of Skiddaw in June a few years back. Low cloud, freezing wind and just me and the Mrs struggling on (with me in big trouble for suggesting the climb in the first place) and then as we dropped down towards a lovely little beck the sun came out and we were back to the summers day I had hoped for - with Skiddaw annoyingly now cloud free, but my bacon was saved! A well deserved pint of Sneck Lifter was definitely the order of the day back in Keswick.

  26. radfordkennedy

    Jun 12, 2015, 13:22 #71979

    Tony Evans..Ron..the lakes provided me with one of the scariest most un-nerving moments of my life.many years ago I was part of the support team to a bunch of old pals doing a charity walk,I had taken up the high octane food and drink with another fella to the agreed point on the walk,when without warning a real old London pea-souper decended down on us,not only did I lose sight of the bloke with me it was bloody difficult to breathe all I could do was sit down in case I fell as no-one would find me,it lifted after 20 minutes or so,but it was a really disorientating experience I came off that Hill side like Jesse Owen and never had a pint of Jennings best bitter tasted so good,a beautiful place but you get all four seasons of the year before lunch but a great experience nevertheless

  27. Tony Evans

    Jun 12, 2015, 12:52 #71978

    Hi Ron - Could talk about The Lakes all day mate, more than Arsenal if truth be known. Northern Lakes for me too, around Bassenthwaite and Buttermere. Keswick is a good base and usually has a good quota of Geordies in the pubs - not too far from home for them is it.

  28. Ron

    Jun 12, 2015, 12:02 #71977

    Alsace . very good point. Ive always thought that to a agree degree, Wengers better teams played and thus ad libbed their way through matches. I dont think coaching came into it much and its why his better teams never cut the mustard in Europe. Its shown in that when we did actually progress to a CL Final, AW had Keown on board unofficially coaching his defence, which lets face it was a makeshift defence (Senderos/ Flamini etc) all the way to the Final that Wenger then changed needlessly (arguably) for the Final itself. Arsene can spot a player and ive never had any doubts on that score, but coaching at the highest level is his greatest weakness. His best teams contained intelligent players who knew what to do. In many of the 49 game sequence of which many of saw most of them, we got in a mess at times and the players found the ways and had the searing pace as you say to recover from difficult positions. I think the postage stamp pitch at Highbury often assisted too. Teams would clear their lines but then we were back at their throats in a second with a ball through from Pires Bergy or Freddie. The opponent had no respite. Tactically though, European football has advanced well beyond PL (and euro) standards since the heady days of 2001-2004. My personal view now is that even Wengers best teams would nowadays make no more of an imprint on the CL than does the present team. I dont think they would unsettle City or Chelsea either, though cant be sure of that. As you say, we need a new Coach to take the Club to a higher level. Its never been just about buying better players and splashing cash.

  29. Alsace

    Jun 12, 2015, 11:09 #71976

    Barcelona can defend to such an extent that they don't mind being on the defensive in order to be able to spring the fast attack from defence. Ferguson built Manch upon it, and it prevades Barca's success. We have known how to do it, but that I think was down to Freddie, Thierry and Bobby, and Overmars before them having the speed to strike of a solid defence. Wenger can't understand and he won't try to do so. We can't progress until he resigns. At least for the time being, we are having a bit of fun.

  30. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 22:09 #71975

    Dunstanburgh. Thats it! Talking about the NE gets me in the mood for going back. I keep doing bits of the Wall every time. Its like a magnet for me!! Done about 40 miles of it so far down the yrs.

  31. John F

    Jun 11, 2015, 21:05 #71974

    Hi Ron yes it is called dunstanburgh castle.You have got to admit that spurs fan Ashley has a rhino behind as he must be getting abuse where ever he goes.Alnwick gardens is worth a visit I am a Gardener so I am a bit biased.

  32. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 20:47 #71973

    John F - is Embleton the place with great big beaches near the castle? Cant recall the castle name though? Youre right about N'bland. Ive always found them very warm and humble people. Never on yr own long in a pub anywhere in the NE. They ll all talk for England!! The guy Ashley at Newcastle with all his wide boy clique. He went wrong never bothering to gel and understand the locals and the Club. They only want good swashbuckling football with 100 per cent commitment. Trophies arent that important to em. They never forgive people who are outsiders for showing that attitude. Hes a bit of an idiot. He could have done well there.

  33. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 20:37 #71972

    The Vieira comparisons werent idle ones for sure.

  34. John F

    Jun 11, 2015, 20:37 #71971

    In the eighties I went up with the London Newcastle supporters club with my Geordie brother in law to watch the Arsenal win on a cold December day.I will never forget just how friendly they were.Took me in the pub near the ground and then on to the side paddock at St James park.The only dodgy part was that they had a kitty on the train to be given to the first person to hit a Sunderland fan at the next game.The North London Derby is a bit tame compared to that one.My sister lived in Embleton for a while really good deserted sandy beaches up there.Best drive Windermere to Ullswater just stunning scenery.

  35. Westlower

    Jun 11, 2015, 20:34 #71970

    I always thought he'd be our captain and driving force in midfield. We'll do well to sign a player with all his qualities in this transfer window. Watching a couple of his games for the U21's this season he still has the presence, vision & passing. I completely understood why Wenger always kept faith that he'd make a successful comeback.

  36. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 19:58 #71969

    Yes he did Westie. I recall a goal v Derby in a romp of about 5-0 7 or 8 years back. No backlift. Went in like a missile at the clock end.He wd have been a great player. His greatest game for me was Liverpool away in the CL when we really should have won the tie but let them back in, through gung ho after we got to 2-2. Diaby was a monster that night well supported by Matty Flamini. Abou got a knock and Saint Gerrad did Flamini by calling over the ball to knobble him. b----ard. The rest is history, they conned a pen and we lost it. Best atmosphere in a football ground that ive experienced for years and never since.

  37. Westlower

    Jun 11, 2015, 17:01 #71967

    Well said Ron in your assessment of Diaby. He had it all didn't he? @Torbay & Ho Hum, Experienced similar to you on leaving Wembley that day from the Geordies. I remember saying to a few of them we don't wish to rub your noses in it. Winning the double was its own reward. They just didn't get it!

  38. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 16:40 #71965

    Tony - ooh yes Tony. The lakes! Love it myself mate. My preference is the North Lakes. More rugged and less touristy isnt it. Not been for a few years now. Bassenthwaite area, lovely!!

  39. Tony Evans

    Jun 11, 2015, 16:04 #71964

    Ron - Newcastle FC to the fans up there is everything and as you say trophies or no they love the club with a passion. I think you are right in that a one club city generates a different breed of supporter that just enjoys their football come what may, and the humour up there is second to none. Hope you have a good trip to a beautiful part of the country, mate. My other half and I are just back from Cumbria - no football there unless you count Carlisle but we love the Lake District and managed to bag quite a few Fell tops in our 4 days up there.

  40. Torbay gooner

    Jun 11, 2015, 16:03 #71963

    Yes Ho-Hum, "cheer up lads you just won the double" was directed at myself and others on leaving Wembley that day. Passionate supporters,constantly short changed since Bobby Robson stepped down.

  41. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 15:45 #71962

    On Diaby - The persistanece with the lad has been too long really but behind the injury riddled body lay a potentially top player in fairness to AW. Power, deceptive speed, brave, good passer and hell of a shot on him. Had he have proved the player AW knew existed there would have been 5 or 6 guys who have worn Gunners shirts who wouldn't otherwise have got close to one. Good luck Abou.

  42. Ho Hum

    Jun 11, 2015, 15:25 #71961

    Remember walking out of Wembley in 98 and the Geordies mocking us for our low-key celebrating of The Double. Little did they know that our real fans were busy setting fire to cars on Blackstock Road. Happy days.

  43. Bard

    Jun 11, 2015, 14:57 #71960

    Sanchez says it was an ok season but he would have liked to have won one of the big ones. Someone needs to have a word with him. He sounds like an wob. Something obviously got lost in translation when we signed him. Sad about Diaby but what were we doing signing a crock on a 6 years contract? Madness. I wish him well in retirement.

  44. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 14:57 #71959

    Tony - Ive a Sister living in Corbridge - its about 25 miles inland from Newcastle. Her friend and Husband are Toon fans. The Club is almost more than a football Club to them. Their approach though, about the team is pretty phlegmatic really, humorous in fact, esp over the trophy drought since 69.The media s coverage of the 'desperation' of the Toon fans seems to differ from what ive seen up there. They certainly love football first and their Club falls within that. Very fair minded about other teams who beat them i find. Being a one club City aids and abets the passion maybe? I only see similar levels of passion for football amongst Merseysiders, nowhere else gets close to be honest. They love the FAC up in Northumbria for sure. Beautiful area by the way. Im off up there for my annual visit in 10 days. Ill get the feed back on Schteeve!

  45. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 11, 2015, 14:19 #71958

    Tony Evans, you're right there, he's made enough out of our club for no return so he can now go of and live the life of Luxury.

  46. Captain Frank

    Jun 11, 2015, 14:01 #71957

    Guys - OK, so you think Jeff is a troll. You don't seem to know what the best way of dealing with a troll is though. Ignore them. Try it.

  47. Badarse

    Jun 11, 2015, 13:30 #71956

    Socioeconomics studies, and then anticipates or tries to comprehend behaviour. It's based on many factors, geographic locations, education, wealth, historical values and accepted practises, etc. The study of which determines and anticipates certain patterns of the general behaviour of the community. ie. a young female growing up in Pakistan will have a completely different set of ideals, moral obligations, and an expected adherence to what passes for the norm within her geo-socioeconomic background, to a female child growing up in Bognor, say. When the fans of the 'north' are used as a comparison, perhaps with Arsenal's fans, using a blanket pattern of behaviour i.e 'their wholesome love of their team and the game', it is worth remembering it may be something inherent in their roots. As you move away from London things change, the mental outlook, money, and the all around cosmopolitan view of many who dwell there. A poorer community outlook, a sense of banding together, the bond created by deprivations shared, all lend themselves to a pervading approach to the game that was/is symbolic in the 'north'. The professional game began there and spawned pro-football in the south, with Arsenal the first to embrace it. However the trades unionism that was/is a cornerstone of the 'north' is also one which eyes change and modern thinking suspiciously, chauvinism is one such anomaly. However these are generalisations, and locked in a 'past' understanding of what was. Times are changing, and of course always have been-nothing stands still, (except players like Geordie Armstrong), and this is just a broad brushstroke of where the mind set of those peoples came from. I know how 'good' the people from the 'north' can be, my Dad was a Yorkshireman, mind my Mum was a Londoner, and she was 'good' too. It might be worthy to ponder this observational information when making assessments of groups of people.

  48. jeff wright

    Jun 11, 2015, 13:21 #71955

    Cashley, Troll troll troll,is that all you can come up with to counter my points ,you are just a sad joke posting non-stop abuse at critics of Arsene's failed policies season after season . I'm still struggling to picture you singing among the coffee latte crowd at the Emirates ! How does it go now ... Now you mention it though I do seem to recall you changing your mind after ORIGINALLY suggesting that it was not all over after the embarrassing 3-1 caning at home by mighty Monaco, oh so slow Berber and all... by suggesting that we would probably win 2-0 but go out against Monaco ... a bit of covering your back though there with so many previous failures at the same stage suggesting that this was the most likely outcome. You also claimed that it would be onwards and upwards after the FAC win the season before last . Oh ...! So that was another prediction from you that turned out wrong . We finished up last term with less points than in the previous one and needed a collapse from United in the death to snatch 3rd spot having blown the chance to finish ahead of City in second place . No improvement there as we also finished more points off the top behind Chelsea who did improve and go onwards and upwards. So if you don't mind I will stick to my view that Wenger is past his best and needs replacing . If you think otherwise then bully for you ,but your 'we will PROBABLY win 2-0 against Monaco but go out' is the only correct prediction that you have made and shows that even you couldn't muster enough faith to believe that Wenger would turn around the goal deficit against Monaco . You normally of course ,along with Mystic leeKFC ( afters) ah ah , sensibly refrain from making predictions before games against the top sides preferring instead to come on after we lose them to post abuse at others and to advise them to get behind the team. AKB terminology for ARSENE. I think I will give it all a miss for awhile because it is all getting to be rather boring now with no football to comment on and everything done to death. . I will return though when the action starts to offer my alternative views to those of Arsene's little lambs , like yourself, who all go ba ba ba together and are happy to have finished 3rd in the league. You couldn't make it up.

  49. Tony Evans

    Jun 11, 2015, 13:17 #71954

    Hi Ron - when I think back to my first season at Highbury back in 69/70 I thank my lucky stars that I am not from the north east as far as football is concerned. To think had my first season been at St James' Park I would still be waiting to see my team lift a trophy! Great fans they are too and as long as Arsenal weren't the opponents I would be rooting for Newcastle to win a final.

  50. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 12:52 #71952

    Hi Tony - Have to quite like Ashley for the way he just seems to love teasing the Toon fans. Everything he does seems designed to torment them. Schteeve s on the Board! Will they not like that. They go wild, he keeps laughing and sacking! Always get a good deal on running shoes off him. Good old fat Mike!!

  51. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 11, 2015, 12:36 #71951

    Your such a troll you can't even state facts anymore. I said we would win 2-0 in Monaco and go out. Never mentioned anything about winning the league unless you take onwards and upwards as that. Your catch phrase couldn't make it up is all you do. Troll.

  52. Tony Evans

    Jun 11, 2015, 12:22 #71950

    Ron - the manager merry-go-round never ceases to amaze me. They make a right Horlicks of it at one club and then low and behold pop up at another as if they are some kind of messiah! As you say the Geordies must be dancing in the streets at Steve McLaren's appointment!

  53. jeff wright

    Jun 11, 2015, 12:16 #71949

    With a name like Colesyboy it's little wonder that all of your admiration for Arsene is based on him running a business plan for Stan . Unfortunately my points about Arsene being tactically clueless and him employing dodgy GK's are proven facts .On the other hand you just keep being proven wrong every season ,such as when he yet again failed to overturn a goal deficit against Monaco that you predicted as you have for all the other occasions in the past, that he would do. Your claims of title challenges have also proven to be delusions season after season. Goods old Arsene.

  54. Ron

    Jun 11, 2015, 11:39 #71947

    Thought for the day. Life could be worse chaps. We could be appointing that exotic Dutch coach Scchteeve Maclaren with his remit to bring success! Always amazes me when these tired, same old never beens are constantly re cycled as 'top' Coaches. His claim to fame is being Fergie's assistant at one time a day long ago, yet look how it carries him. I bet the Toon fans are joyous at his appointment.

  55. Tony Evans

    Jun 11, 2015, 9:59 #71945

    We can't let the final departure of Abou Diaby go without comment. You have to feel for the guy (mind you I would have gladly swapped places with him for the kind of money he was on)though apparently he may still feature on a pay as you play contract. The question is why couldn't that have been arranged years ago! On a separate point I was introduced to a fellow Gooner a few weeks ago - nice chap who typified the new breed of monied fans we have now in droves. He was a season ticket holder and also had three season tickets for his children! Out of my league I am afraid but he did offer me the chance to see a few games next year so that would be great.

  56. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 11, 2015, 7:32 #71943

    Whoop di doo jeff is our hero and saviour. If you mention clueless tactics, subs and a dodgy goalkeeper again, we might all start to believe you. I suppose your sh*t smells of roses too? Troll away jeff.

  57. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 22:48 #71941

    Yes Frank just typos but the usual suspects leap on this as though it is proof that Wenger HAS managed a title challenge since the Invincibles, even they couldnt manage to work the oracle in Europe with Arsene's clueless tactics ,subs and dodgy GK in Almunia for back up. No sign of anything changing either unfortunately .So I guess we will all have to be happy with 3rd place in the league ,or 4th again, and hope for another FAC win. cluck cluck...cluck...

  58. Platitude Problem

    Jun 10, 2015, 22:45 #71940

    Jeff - another load of words I can't be bothered to read. Even if I did it would take about '14 years' to read. That's the trouble with the trouble with the invincibles of ELEVEN years ago, you see. They really weren't in a position to win the title on the last day of the season were they? Jeff sure sounds like a true fan!

  59. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 10, 2015, 22:30 #71939

    Captain Frank...it wasn't a typo, he mentioned it in two separate articles. Please don't defend this. But you probably couldn't be bothered to read his long winded wind ups anyway. He is not an Arsenal supporter but the ultimate troll.

  60. Captain Frank

    Jun 10, 2015, 22:23 #71938

    I didn't have Jeff down as a wind-up merchant but he sure winds up Lee and goonercolesyboy. Guys - Didn't it cross your mind that it was a typo? Seriously? Jeff even mentioned 2004. You're acting like schoolkids - "look teacher he got it wrong". I despair at Arsenal fans digging each other out on here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion - debate them without getting petty. It makes for a more enjoyable read for those of us watching on.

  61. Lee afc

    Jun 10, 2015, 22:14 #71937

    Ooooooopppppps. Jeffs at it again. 14 years and no title challenges. Let's forget about the Invincibles then eh Jeff. Call yourself a gooner. naaaah. Leave it out stupid.

  62. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 22:02 #71936

    Colesyboy, that is a fact. During that period we have never been in a position on the final day of the season to win the league. I can't recall us even being in that position a week before either. In any case a title challenge goes to the wire on the last day. In reality we have usually sweated on finishing 4th needing to win our last game to finish a point ahead of the spuds on two occasions. I am aware of course that you view a few results at one period of the season,as was the case before Christmas the season before last and after the new year in the last one,as being title challenges .City could claim the same but they have not done so because they know that the title is won over 38 games and not over a dozen of them. It's been that long though since Arsene actually managed a proper challenge (2004 actually) over a full season that you have probably forgotten what a proper title challenge is. I note you have avoided the embarrassing European first round KO for Arsene over the past 5 seasons. Very wise that. Someone will be claiming that we can win the European Cup by drawing every game next... oh I forgot... they already have ! You couldn't make it up.

  63. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 10, 2015, 21:45 #71935

    No title challenges for 14 years.....interesting statement from jeff.

  64. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 20:51 #71934

    Problems,here you are again whinging ( yawn) and confusing that with complaining .You offer nothing else, no opinions other than you are happy with 3rd place, and everyone else should be as well. You refuse to answer any questions regarding if you are satisfied with no title challenges for 14 years and Wenger flopping every season in Europe despite having spent a fortune on players and increased wages to try and win the Champions League, because to do so would, under your own criteria, make you a 'whinger'. We are still waiting to see what other name/names you used on here to check on your claims that you don't support Wenger. All a bit confusing really this with you obviously being a hard-on AKB .Then again you do have problems and are obviously very confused. For the record incidentally I have never said that I expected Wenger to win trophies,only that he should be doing BETTER to try and win them and that his record against top sides is lamentable and embarrassing. I don't particularly like Mourinho or Chelsea and never have done I wanted them to go into liquidation when Cap'n Birdseye Bates was running them . Actually one of my problems with Wenger is that he can't beat Mourinho ,not even once, I'm not holding my breath on this changing at Wembley in the CM either. Under Wenger's tenure Chelsea have taken our top team in London place without Wenger even putting up a decent fight,this is not good enough. Now Problems if I were a Chelsea supporter I would be backing Wenger to stay at AFC for ever,that's what Chelsea ones do,they love him and even sing songs about that. Of course it suits your agenda to keep going on about Wenger and FA Cups , a cup that not so long ago he deemed not worth bothering with. That is still the case if playing in it encroaches on his beloved Champions League games , for the last couple of seasons that has not been a problem and the top 4 trophy has been safe by the time the FAC starts . We know from past experience that Wenger will, if required , prioritize the top 4 place over the FAC if there is a danger of dropping out of the top 4. Tbh , having listened to Wenger's comments regarding next season I can already see the FA Cup again being the only realistic target for a trophy next term .If Wenger can pull off the trick three times in a row is another matter,but it can't be ruled out if he carries on getting a bit of good fortune such as the Reading own goal that semi was looking ominously like another magic of the cup 'shock' result . I don't believe that Wenger is up to winning the Prem these days he had a shout last term of doing so but came up well short again at the start and end of the season with just another run of results against ordinary opponents at one stage that faded away once the pressure games to get second ahead of City kicked-in. Wenger has always failed in Europe with no sign as he ages of that changing. If wanting us to do better than just making up the numbers in Europe and being also rans in the Prem is a crime then I plead guilty to that charge. A change of attitude from business plan Stan is also required it's not all down to Wenger the Ivan remarks about being disappointed with the league performance are all well and good but if anything changes regarding that is doubtful ,but if a major shareholder needs a manager to work to a business plan then Arsene is the man. Winning the league or European Cup requires a little more though.

  65. Platitude Problem

    Jun 10, 2015, 19:25 #71933

    Jeff - your reply used a lot of words, but frankly said bugger all. You whinged when nothing was won for 9 years. You whinged last year when something was won, you whinged this season when something was won again. You'll whinge if Wenger gets sacked and his predecessor is also only winning a domestic cups and finishing 3rd. I notice that you seem to have a hard on for Jose Mourinho. Let me give you a tip. You can replicate the joy of being a Chelsea fan by every week tossing £50 out the window, painting a skirting board and spending the next 2 hours watching it dry. Repeat that trick every week for 9 months and come May hand yourself a trophy. One wonders what the likes of you did when even in the 1990s winning an FA Cup and finishing 3rd was a big deal. But seeing as for some games back then we only got 26,000, you probably never bothered to turn up.

  66. Badarse

    Jun 10, 2015, 19:09 #71932

    Interesting slant. The people who spend all their time criticising Arsenal by posting negatives on the threads here, are the very ones complaining of the poor support generated by Arsenal fans. Excuse me, but the slant is so extreme I think I am slipping off the edge!

  67. Hiccup

    Jun 10, 2015, 18:58 #71931

    I don't mind the whinging on here. I can even live with the whinging about whinging. But the foul mouthed ripostes used by the AKB's every time they drive themselves down a cul de sac I find very upsetting. I don't want to whinge on about it too much, because I am a thoughtful chap and don't want to trigger off those allergic to whingism. However, I would subscribe an anger management course for those that Jeff keeps upsetting with such an easy frequency.

  68. jjetplane

    Jun 10, 2015, 17:54 #71929

    That's the one RON. Birmingham have some serious support as a lot of the Midlands clubs. I have been at Leeds (have to mention them) and Birmingham on trips where I was happy to be on the periphery of some very mad scenes in the last century. Some of the maddest support I have seen was at Carlisle where I spent a time working.

  69. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2015, 16:49 #71928

    Speaking of diaby and all the money been wastefully thrown at him in the never ending quest to get him rehabilitated and fit, (and be our saviour) i'd like to know what (if anything)or how much OGL and Arsenal are throwing at one of our true Arsenal legends Kenny Sansom to get him rehabilitated and fit again? I'd imagine a quarter of the money wasted on diaby over the years (not to mention others)or less would pay for Sansoms rehabilitation and help get him fit again, he certainly can't be as big a lost cause as diaby.

  70. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 15:52 #71926

    Yes mg, it's a bit much really for Problems to try and claim that he doesent support 'our great leader' but just hates whinging when he whinges constantly himself Ad nauseam against Arsene's critics and despite his ludicrous claims to the contrary is obviously a hard-on AKB who celebrates Arsene finishing 3rd and abuses any who do not do so. You couldn't make it up.

  71. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2015, 15:26 #71925

    jw, the true AKB coming out now, well handled, like swatting flies.

  72. Ron

    Jun 10, 2015, 15:08 #71924

    Ho Hum. True. West Ham as Bilic says are a 'cult club'. Always have been. Glad Allardyce has gone. Never a West Ham man in my view. Pompey fans are a good lot as you say. Culturally Arsenal have always gone for the cosmopolitan well heeled set. This was the purpose behind the move from SE London of course ie to catch those fans. Its been ingrained in Arsenals DNA ever since and still exists. Its close to central London proximity does take away much from Arsenals support. Good fans by and large, but stiff upper lipped and reserved to the extreme.It doesnt make for a hot bed stadium and it hardly ever has been one. The last 10 years though has worsened the problem.

  73. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 15:07 #71923

    Problem, those who believe that they don't have problems are the ones with them. You obviously have problems you are abusive and stupid and that is before we start on the other ones ,deluded, arrogant,pompous lacking in any ambition .The old go and spend your benefits jibe shows that you desperately flung out shows a lack of any imagination. You are probably shy with girls as well and have an identity crisis regarding knowing who you are. Anyway,enough of this how about just telling us what your other name/names are that you have used on here so we can check out your claims regarding your views on 'our great leader' . The fact that you are obviously still creaming yourself over us finishing third reveals your true views on Arsene ,that third was actually given the circumstances with 10 games to play and a good chance of finishing second rather disappointing and showed that their was never any hope of Wenger winning the title last season when he couldn't from being in a strong position over City with 10 to play even finish ahead of them ,let alone Chelsea. Winning another FA Cup was the only high that we had in what Ivan described as a being disappointing season in Europe and in the league , where he said 'they' had hoped that we would have done better. So if 'they' are not happy about that then why should anyone else be>? So again are YOU happy Problems with never seeing a title challenge put in for 14 years and Wenger obviously out of his depth in Europe season after season>? YES or NO will do. Cheers.

  74. Bard

    Jun 10, 2015, 14:58 #71922

    Platitude problem I think you may have a platitude problem. Calling Jeff a twat is a platitude in my book as well as it being indicative of a lack of imagination. Im not much interested in insults unless they are directed at the spuds I'm more for coherent or even incoherent arguments. Instead of wasting space posting childish ripostes why not write something thoughtful and imaginative. Unless youre just a complete twat !

  75. Ho Hum

    Jun 10, 2015, 14:55 #71921

    Agreed Ron, although I believe there is the odd pocket in the south such as Portsmouth that can generate passion to compare with the north. West Ham fans also I've always felt are a slightly different breed to other London clubs but surely their collective drive will be greatly diluted by the move to Stratford and subsequent tourist influx. Our frankly bizarre and seemingly unique problem is that such a large percentage of our fanbase are apparently determined that we remain forever the smallest big club in the world. Tragic.

  76. Platitude Probelm

    Jun 10, 2015, 14:24 #71920

    Jeff - I have no problem at all. You're the one whinging

  77. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 14:03 #71919

    Tut tut more abuse from angry Problem and still no answer to the questions asked. At least you are not now trying to claim to be anti-Arsene ah! ah! Cheer up Problem we all have them but some of us handle them better.

  78. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 10, 2015, 13:18 #71918

    Rosicky says he's baffled by wengers decision to extend his contract as he extended his deal he hasn't even been on the bench (now he knows how the rest of us have felt over the years and still do) he says I am laughing (you and a hell of a lot of others)but it's not funny, your fooking right it's not just look at the waster diaby.

  79. Platitude Problem

    Jun 10, 2015, 13:15 #71917

    Jeff Wright - when am I going to answer your questions? Sorry, I'm not at the beck and call of some sad twat who spends his time whinging on internet chat boards. Not happy with winning back to back FA Cups and finishing 3rd after going most of the 2nd half of the season unbeaten? I dunno what to suggest to cheer you up. Spend your social security money on a hokker to lose your virginity with, I guess.

  80. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 12:30 #71915

    Who said yesterday that "We need 3 players ...a striker a defender and a midfield player .Bring some new blood in to put a little pressure some players." Was it, Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho. No prizes for guessing that it was title winner Mourinho.

  81. Ron

    Jun 10, 2015, 12:14 #71914

    JJ - that would have been 67 ish wasnt it? 'Fingers' doing his party piece?

  82. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 11:59 #71913

    By the way Problem, when we check, as you suggested , to see if you had ever supported Wenger,who you call 'our glorious leader' in a pathetic lame attempt to try and claim not to be an AKB, what other names should we look fo then , apart from the silly recent one that you now employ >?

  83. jjetplane

    Jun 10, 2015, 11:52 #71912

    Still remember standing in the schoolboys the day Jim Furnell fell into the net with the ball which resulted in Bob Wilson getting his spot. The other incredible notable of that day was watching Birmingham take the north bank and it was a sight I have never seen again. Nearest to such was West Ham (big time) and Man Utd (closely following) but am afraid to say an Arsenal crowd have been more reticent to getting it on than a lot of others. Have often in the past did my best to get a song going but alot of it is hard work. Stand out times were the 70s at ****e heart and the day Kanu got his hatrick at Chelski was boss. We were singing like mad in the bar at half time and we were two down. There is not a bit of this now and London crowds are day tripping and the old songs are dead and buried. Copenhagen was another but it all seems long ago. As I spend my football days with crowds often in the low 100s now it amuses me when I catch these Emirate well heelers politely clapping a Giroud goal. Soft smiles all around.

  84. jeff wright

    Jun 10, 2015, 11:45 #71911

    Problem, you obviously are a chap with a number of them also the problem is with your claims about me responding to your first post is that you went off at a tangent regarding other matters and became abusive when advising me to stop F>>>>ing whinging and be happy about winning the FAC and finishing third. None of this was related to my innocuous question to you after you claimed that not all clubs were Barcelona . I asked you who were the clubs that were not Barcelona,apart from Barcelona,that had the temerity to help prevent Arsene ( who you ludicrously claim to not support ah! ah! come on now it is not Comic Relief Day ) from winning the holy grail of his elusive dreams. Perhaps the Catalan's should call themselves Real Barcelona so as to differentiate themselves from the others . You have still not told us though if you are happy with the just the two FA Cup wins during the last ten years and only a routine par for the course 4th or the odd 3rd place league finish in the league with no title challenge from Arsene for 14 years. Apart from his inability also over the last five , after a fortune spent and with a Chelsea style wage bill to boot now, to get past the first KO round in the Champions League . So instead of just whinging about me whinging why not tell us the answer to these simple questions. YES or NO will suffice,anything else is surplus to requirements.

  85. Ron

    Jun 10, 2015, 11:36 #71910

    Not at AFC it isnt Colesy. The feel of the place is dependent upon how raucous the visiting support is. I'm not sure if you go, but if you do you'll know its true. It may have improved though in the 21 months since i last went, i don't know but seriously doubt it. My last game there was a tepid 1-0 win v Spurs and even that had an atmosphere like a non league match. The spurs support was as bad.

  86. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 10, 2015, 11:17 #71909

    So if we aren't happy with the team, the players, the manager, the ticket prices, the style of play, let's now have a go at the support....the support was brilliant, when you are in amongst the singing it is hard to hear the opposition voices, so I will say Villa sang one song, yippee ai ay...etc etc....great when they were singing that and the BFG scored the third...laugh.

  87. jjetplane

    Jun 10, 2015, 11:07 #71908

    When the camera goes to Arsene fans they are all of the geology post grads genre out for a day in London before getting back to their respective research digs. They have mental speeeret. Arsene rah rah! ha ha! Now what's the latest on TV - is he claiming he earned his medal? From TA to TV to BFG. Yeah but he scored in the FA Cup final and he is a 'world cup winner.' How many minutes did he play for Germany! There's a kind of Hush/all over N7 dah dah/.....

  88. Ron

    Jun 10, 2015, 11:03 #71907

    Colesy - on the 'authority' of Gunners supporters i know who went, all of whom accepted that the Villa support drowned ours out save for immediately after our goals. Indeed, it was the same v Bham City in 2011. When visiting teams fans sing 'yr support is f-----g ****'at AFC, theyre right, whether the truth of the reality upsets you or not.

  89. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 10, 2015, 10:51 #71906

    Villa owned the place!!!!!.....on whose authority was that Ron?

  90. Ron

    Jun 10, 2015, 8:26 #71904

    Ho Hum - the cup final echoes yr point there. The atmosphere at the screenings was good though im told was poor at Wembley. Villa owned the place seemingly. Can only repeat my long held view. The passion for football isnt there south of Warwick and in my opinion never has been. The Clubs central and of the north 'feel' the drive and passion of their fans still and it affects those Clubs plans and methods , even in todays sanitised game, though even in these regions its diluted to what it once was. i get to Anfield, Goodison and WBA/Villa/Leics each season on 'complimentaries'. AFC is a morgue by comparison. The crowd there i feel is stunted by its acceptance of the status quo and dull predictability of each season. Its dull but kept at a level that makes the punters who are still enamoured by it thinking that another step up is just around the corner. Cusps and off the shoulders resonate loudly, if not the crowd! The AFC away support isnt what it was even 3 or 4 yrs ago either, though many of them are aware of the illusion that the Club has become at least.

  91. Platitude Problem

    Jun 10, 2015, 0:21 #71903

    Hiccup (or is it Fuccup?) - you might want to read through the thread again. It's Jeff who responded to my post and not the other way around

  92. jjetplane

    Jun 09, 2015, 23:07 #71902

    Looks like Juve are going to settle for the consolation of taking Khedira whom Arsene could have signed along with Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona, Stanley Matthews and Alfie Tupper. TV has texted Arsene with the bad news and Randy was so looking forward to hanging up a CL medal beside the Bison head ....

  93. Hiccup

    Jun 09, 2015, 22:39 #71901

    You're on the ball tonight mg. I hear even FIFA are going to intervene now and strip barca of the trophy for having the temerity of winning the game, and give it to juve. Sounds like the AKB's have been bribing officials just to prove their point that you don't need to win a game to win it

  94. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 09, 2015, 22:27 #71900

    Hiccup, that's really bad news indeed, and he was going to give it to OGL too, after nearly signing him twenty years ago and making him the player he is or was today (he might re sign him now) and OGL could have finally got his hands on a CL winners medal after all it's the only way he's ever going to get one.

  95. Hiccup

    Jun 09, 2015, 22:10 #71899

    Platitude, why don't you take your own advice then? You've told Jeff to give up following football if he can't enjoy it. Why don't you give up on reading jeff's posts if it bothers you so much? Or even better, as you advised Jeff so politely, stop ****ing whinging about Jeff yourself.

  96. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 09, 2015, 22:02 #71898

    jj, not only can you win the CL by not winning a game, now you can win it by not even playing one.

  97. Know Man

    Jun 09, 2015, 21:33 #71896

    Kev, with all due respect, how does spending £42m on Ozil present us with value for money? Alexis at £30m certainly represents great value and he slotted straight in like a duck to water. Ozil is still acclimatising. Has he made a significant contribution to turn us into title contenders, answer is no, has he even made us stronger in Europe, answer again is negative. We needed a striker, AW buys Ozil, a purchase which was forced upon him too as we were all unhappy with that summers transfer activity or lack of!

  98. Platitude Problem

    Jun 09, 2015, 21:21 #71895

    Hiccup - yes, because you're really going to challenge Chelsea without a good bank balance aren't you? Also, you've referred to me as an AKB. Please put the search engine to good use and find an instance where I've even mentioned, let alone praised 'our glorious leader'. I just hate whingers who repeat platitudes ad nauseum and are generally never satisfied with anything

  99. Hiccup

    Jun 09, 2015, 21:00 #71894

    jj, that is truly devastating news about Vermaelen. I hope arsenal have their top lawyers on to this. New AKB Platitude Plonker was very excited and celebrating in the streets with the thought of arsenal collecting a £3m payment. Give us a good bank balance over challenging Chelsea any day.

  100. jjetplane

    Jun 09, 2015, 20:37 #71893

    TV has been told to give his medal back as he played not one minute in the CL this season and there are pictures of him happily picking up a medal on Saturday night. The pinnacle of Arsene;s philosophy and Barca have said they can forget about the 3m to be paid offshore. Kinda sums up the last decade at The Home of Failure. 'but we got 2 FA Cups, a Charity Shield and are currently owning 3rd spot and and and ..... loving football.

  101. Ho Hum

    Jun 09, 2015, 18:32 #71892

    Spot on about our mute match-going fans Kev, certainly at home and at cup finals. Tens of thousands of ticketless fans travelled over to Paris in 2006 and created a fantastic old school atmosphere around Gard du Nord and elsewhere the night before the final, but inside Stade de France 24 hours later were a totally different breed who seemed to prefer admiring their shiny new free t-shirts to singing their hearts out for the lads, despite us spending nearly half the game in the lead. I remember there were a dozen or so guys in the first few rows behind the goal who kept trying to get things going but to no avail apart from of course the first couple of minutes after we scored. I guess the rest were of the just-happy-to-be-here type we get on this site who believe we should know our place in football and never aspire to anything better. You know, the type who believe that we should 'enjoy' finishing third on less points than last season and much further behind the only place that matters than last season. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

  102. Badarse

    Jun 09, 2015, 16:39 #71891

    Hello Bard, Dark Lord of the Online Gooner. Evolution brings about change, both for better and for worse-they go hand in hand. Football now is amazingly athletic, faster and more artistic. It's down to the surfaces, training regimes, amended rules, the ball, and the altered emphasis. The financial involvement has set new dynamics, mostly ugly. Brutalising of traditional values, but in amongst it is the beauty on the pitch-which many cannot/will not see. To win a cup takes ability and a huge slice of fortune. We have limited ability compared to some others on the CL carousel, but fortune is sliced in a random fashion. We might need a bigger slice than some it's true, but it is winnable as are all knock out competitions, though I accept the more pragmatic view as probable. I do take issue with the sweeping statement that fans may be happy with a lesser deal. I shall die discontented. I've had huge spreads of happiness in my life but always shall crave more. My second sentence is realistic, so I accept. This exchange is in danger of just rebounding back to a 'change the manager' chant, (the change of policy cannot ever be guaranteed though), to try to garner a better or bigger slice of fortune/ability. That day will come-with evolution rather than revolution. I know the WOBs are revolting, but that is no excuse. Be patient! A 'great' club is a fanciful and nebulous concept; we do not occupy a monopoly in this area by any means, and we do some pretty awful things, but perhaps with a softer touch than most. Still 'great' encompasses so many attributes, involving former as well as traditional approaches, also honours attained, etc. We are a 'great' club, but it's fine if you refuse to recognise the criteria.

  103. Bard

    Jun 09, 2015, 15:23 #71890

    Been following the posts with interest. Im get the argument 'footballs changed' but then so has everything else, so what ? Its not all bad. Did anyone see the FAC pre game footage, the pitches were no better than ploughed fields, the tackle from behind was still allowed, many footballers were paid a pittance. I much prefer todays spectacle although I dont enjoy the corporate angle or the fact that players behave like prima donnas. Those who continue to post in support of the current regime clearly dont watch much football. As others have pointed out Arsenal will never get close to winning the CL if there isnt a sea change in the club's ideology. Having said that I dont have a problem with fans who are quite happy with that state of affairs. What I do have a problem with is fans believing that mediocrity and limited ambition are the hallmarks of a great club.

  104. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2015, 14:46 #71889

    Problem give it a rest please you are struggling to try and make a pigs ear into a silk purse.You have still not explained what any of your points are regarding us aspiring to play in a Champions League final or to put in a title challenge. Is Wenger going to spend the rest of his time with us winning FA Cups without managing to aspire to better than this and are you happy with that>?

  105. Ron

    Jun 09, 2015, 14:45 #71888

    Westie - Italian footie being what it was later shown to be up too in 2007/08, coupled with Milan downing tools at half time in the 2005 Final perhaps we can be forgiven for thinking that perhaps folding stuff changed hands and the right inducements offered to the right people, thus oiling the wheels that led to Saint Gerrads 2nd half 'glory' that night? It certainly looked that way. That team actually stopped running didnt it!! I think footballs riddled with fixing anyway and have thought it for years. Somehow its stops itself from being exposed to the same extent as many other sports. I dont think theres a media willingness to want to accept it, seeing as its the Worlds vanguard sport still. The halos slipping though as shown by the FIFA thing which itself might open up things that others elsewhere in football wont want to see the light of day. Ultimately, FIFA s detractors within football presently celebrating its shame and Blatters demise will bond and stonewall to protect FIFA.

  106. Badarse

    Jun 09, 2015, 14:27 #71887

    I don't think a person's view, attitude or perception of any particular trophy makes them an animal, whether a sheep or a hedgehog. Neither do I believe age has any relevance in a person's outlook towards what constitutes success, let alone their desire for it. I am of an age that witnessed barren times and the bountiful. I think too often waters are muddied by muddled thinking. Admission price is a cloying and destructive issue, and doesn't reflect on any individual's approach to a football club, or their love of it. Whether that issue needs debating at all is debatable. Sorry, am wearing my dog's collar-it does things to me-so am probably being taken for 'walkies' soon.

  107. Red Member

    Jun 09, 2015, 14:04 #71886

    @Platitude Problem yes the FA Cup is a trophy but unfortunately is much less of a big deal than it used to be. you are probably too young to remember when we actually won league titles but that it is what a club of the stature of Arsenal should be competing for. Instead brain washed sheep like you are content to watch Chelsea and City contest the title but yet paying more expensive ticket prices.

  108. Platitude Problem

    Jun 09, 2015, 13:11 #71885

    Jeff - FA Cup not a trophy then?

  109. Westlower

    Jun 09, 2015, 13:07 #71884

    @Saigon Gooner, Absolutely agree that Liverpool were 'ordinary' the year they won the ECL. I was invited by a group of Scousers to watch the 1/4 final game at Anfield v Juventus. I was underwhelmed by both teams and left my hosts with my verdict of "neither of these teams will win the ECL." Liverpool were played off the park in the final and still came away with the trophy..amazing!!

  110. Avenell Road

    Jun 09, 2015, 12:27 #71883

    "A solitary semi" - sums up Arsenal's potency in the tournament

  111. jeff wright

    Jun 09, 2015, 11:18 #71882

    Problem,psssssst..... 3rd is not a trophy either !

  112. Saigon Gooner

    Jun 09, 2015, 10:45 #71881

    I'm not sure that the Nou Camp is any less sanitised than the Emirates - perhaps more so. On the two times I visited, with 80,000 plus inside, the atmosphere was disappointing. All this angst and navel gazing has probably gone too far: one epic final doesn't mean that the gap between continental football and English football is unbridgeable: with a top class striker leading the line - and Wally and Giroud on the bench to lend support when required - we can have a serious go next season. After all when Liverpool won in Istanbul they were very ordinary.

  113. chris dee

    Jun 09, 2015, 10:19 #71880

    Unfortunately the European Cup/Champions League has always been a problem for us.A club such as ours should not still be seeking it's first win in a tournament which began in 1955.It pains me to think of some of the clubs who have won it,Chelsea was real a kick in the b***s, and personally I would rather win the Champions League than the Premiership next season.(Blimey!If only we had that choice!)

  114. Platitude Problem

    Jun 09, 2015, 6:37 #71879

    Jeff - I bet you had to stop yourself parroting '4th is not a trophy', until you realized that we didn't come 4th and we did win a trophy

  115. Joe S.

    Jun 09, 2015, 2:16 #71878

    Rasko, hit it on the head. Arsenal do have and will continue to proceed with a small time mentality.There is no ambition beyond the minor consolation prizes. They are not willing to invest in quality world class. Even Juventus who have been working within a limited budget have been better able to utilize their resources and achieve wonders with a decrepit aging squad.

  116. jeff wright

    Jun 08, 2015, 22:56 #71877

    Problem, only losers enjoy coming 3rd - that is your problem. I note though that you were happy about Arsene making 3m on the TV sale to Barcelona. Says it all really. Typical AKB . As for the FA Cup I was happy that we won it and congratulated Arsene on doing it on here I can't go forever about it so I suggest that you get over it and move on. Chelsea next at Wembley with Arsene looking for a double in the Community Shield it's only a Mickey Mouse Trophy but Arsene's record against Mourinho makes it more important . Anyway, what has any of this got to do with us aspiring to do better in the Champions League >? A competition that you claim we can never win because other clubs have better TV rights or whatever. Albeit most of us would be happy if Wenger could manage to get past the first KO round.By the way resorting to foul language is not doing your case ,such as it is ,any good either. Grow up is my advice to you Problem and try and look at the bigger picture instead of being happy with Arsene making money and finishing 3rd.

  117. Platitude Problem

    Jun 08, 2015, 20:58 #71876

    Jeff - stop ****ing whingeing. If you can't enjoy yourself after coming 3rd and winning the FA Cup then I suggest you give up on Football as its more often than not going to disappoint you

  118. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 08, 2015, 18:08 #71875

    jw, that will be very handy for some indeed, just like we can win the CL by not winning the/a game, we can win the FA Cup even if we're beat by winning the Emirates Cup or vice versa.

  119. Ron

    Jun 08, 2015, 16:05 #71874

    FJ - 'worthy of being called an also ran' - love it mate!

  120. Finsbury Joe

    Jun 08, 2015, 15:37 #71873

    The mere presence of Arsenal in the Champions League is a travesty. They have no ambition or desire to win it, being Arsenal, it is just about coining in the cash, as they do to season ticket holders. Calling Arsenal also rans insults those worthy of such a name. Wenger is completely out of his depth in such company, as Monaco, and for that matter, the mighty Anderlecht have proven this season.

  121. jeff wright

    Jun 08, 2015, 14:56 #71872

    Oh I see Problem it's THEM ! What about Athletico Madrid and the German teams that have appeared in Champions League finals >? Your problem is that the claims you make all look like just more AKB excuses to try and explain away years of failure in Europe by Arsene . Clubs such as Wigan and Reading could point to the huge advantages that we have over them when playing us in FA cup semis. Perhaps we should take note of Westies horse racing analogy and introduce a handicap system into football so that the lesser sides are given a goal or more advantage to even things up. Monaco did not require a one goal advantage though when they turned us over and they are no world beaters . Perhaps we just need a manage with more idea of tactics when playing in Europe. It's not all about money,ask Senor Perez at Real Madrid about it.

  122. Platitude Problem

    Jun 08, 2015, 13:36 #71870

    Jeff Wright - the ones who have 100,000 capacity stadium because a 60,000 one was too small. The Ones who have the support of an entire stateless nation behind them. The ones who sell their own TV righs rather than share it out with the other 19 teams in their league, i.e not Arsenal

  123. jeff wright

    Jun 08, 2015, 12:55 #71869

    Platitude Problem , I have a problem getting over the question of if not all clubs are Barcelona then which ones are Barcelona,apart from Barcelona >?

  124. jeff wright

    Jun 08, 2015, 12:44 #71868

    Racing has an historical link with rich horse race owners Westie it's not called the Sport of Kings for no good reason! The Aga Khan and co go back dare I say donkeys years in British and French Racing and other Arab and other foreign owners have come in to the racing game over here since the 70s. Football used to be different though to what it now is and that is a fact. Of course some clubs had more money than others but it was nothing like the frenzied snouts in the trough situation that we now see going on. As Ron said the bubble will burst eventually . The ones who have made fortunes from it all will be gone with their loot before then though. The Silent Stan's of this world are not in football to give their own money away .

  125. Platitude Problem

    Jun 08, 2015, 12:43 #71867

    Arsenal aren't Barcelona. Most clubs aren't. They gave us Alexis Sanchez, we've gave them Thomas Vermaelen and had to pay £3million on top of that for just one appearence. Get over it.

  126. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 08, 2015, 12:41 #71866

    AMG, maybe OGL will go knocking for Pirlo he's right up his street, right age at the other end, and cheap.

  127. Ron

    Jun 08, 2015, 12:24 #71865

    Horse race ownership has a likeness to footie Clubs ownership now Westie doesn't it. These top clubs are all being fed and fattened for the ultimate sell on values just like your horses. Only diff is that the horse screws the mare to hike its value while the Footie club screws the punters and sponsors to do it. Footballs caught on.

  128. Westlower

    Jun 08, 2015, 12:04 #71864

    'Jeff, As you probably know only too well 'Middle East' money has got a real foothold in horse racing. If it wasn't for the Coolmore operation in Ireland they'd have almost total domination in UK racing. Money dictates and the English are seemingly prepared to sell the 'crown jewels' to make a fast buck!

  129. Ron

    Jun 08, 2015, 11:31 #71863

    Paul (though youre wasting yr breath), Nick, Jeff. All spot on. Nick, the WCs and CLs are all set up for one of the small chosen clique to win and have been for years. Its all one big borefest. The only surprising things is how long it takes for punters to see through it. Hype conceals reality.

  130. jeff wright

    Jun 08, 2015, 11:24 #71862

    The points made about the Americanization of football or 'soccer' are valid ones,but also the insidious Arab Emirates sponsorships and their buying clubs is also having a big impact with their tentacles spreading into the game everywhere. They are not satisfied with having 'Fly Emirates' logos on club shirts here there and everywhere but are also re-naming our football stadiums with ridiculous Arab names as well The Emirates , The Etihad Stadium, this despite the fact that the mediaeval religious police state that these names emanate from has no historical connection with football at all.It will not be any big surprise either ,as I suggested the other day, if the FA Cup becomes 'The Emirates Cup'. That will make two of them because the naff money making one played at our Emirates stadium, that Wenger has failed to win on occasion even when put on a plate for him, is also called 'The Emirates Cup'. Perhaps they will call our one The Emirates Cup One and the FA one The Emirates Cup Two . All I can add is...yawn.

  131. Nick

    Jun 08, 2015, 11:08 #71861

    Didn't watch the cl final, didn't watch the England friendly, one bad decision one good by all accounts. England friendly games are utterly pointless and mind numbingly boring in the main, so I avoid them, I agree its time to do away with them, cl ? I lose interest as soon as the Arsenal are out, the comp is overhyped, ridiculous in its seeded set up and to call it a " champions " league is surely in contravention of the trades description act, the standard of officiating is bloody awfull , the almost total eradication of contact in a contact sport is saddening to say the least, to me it's sanitized football, players are denigrated for enjoying a bit of harmless banter with supporters after a cup win, treated as if they are blue peter presenters caught watching porn, tv commentators talk as if we actually CARE about the fortunes of clubs other than our own and their actual commentary is facile, patronising and ok sometimes unintentionally humorous, all this is a far cry from the game i grew up with and came to love . Of course if Arsenal should ever win the cl id be happy as Larry, but i would given a choice always pick the league title and the FA Cup over European trophies as the more satisfying, i suppose that makes me provincial, but having watched the gunners since the late fifties ( i don't recall much of that time i was only around 5 ) i know all too well about barren spells, the 71 double still holds and always will a special place in my heart, simply because it was the FIRST domestic success id known . I mourn the passing of Highbury and i dislike the sanitized atmosphere in the bowl,i regret the pushing out of many of the old guard who would have made the atmosphere more raucous, all things change but i don't have to like it , so i shall continue to support the Arsenal, i will hope for more success at home AND in Europe but i will ALWAYS care more for domestic success.

  132. Ron

    Jun 08, 2015, 10:42 #71860

    We are ..... Yes, Clubs like Man 'Utd' and 'Real' Madrid have been for many years Clubs who could move base and set up anywhere and it wdt affect them commercially. Arsenal and Chelsea are close, Liverpool too. It matters not that they're London/Merseyside based Clubs. A very high proportion of the punters who go have no or little cultural link to London or wherever. 'Utd', 'the reds', 'Real', 'the Blues'. Whats does it matter anymore? The yankee style cheer leaders are already at some stadia! Its a comin to you soon man, you bet your arse it is!!

  133. Charles

    Jun 08, 2015, 10:34 #71859

    I wish they had someone watching video evidence in the stand who could have got Neymar sent off for running to the fifth official arguing that he'd shouldered the ball into the goal when it came off his hand.

  134. Ron

    Jun 08, 2015, 10:31 #71858

    Bang on the nail Baddie. The 'culture' of celebrity that underpins all of those facets of todays shallow society is so deeply ****ded in so many people's psyche these days by the media (for football the perpetrator in chief being SKY TV et al) that they can no longer distinguish what's real and what isnt.

  135. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jun 08, 2015, 10:06 #71857

    Badarse football is now and has been for some while just another arm of the entertainments industry. Since the league followed the US business model it's even more noticeable. I read a pretty good book about the Oakland Raiders; bemoaning the loss of the teams identity (Oakland, a tough blue collar port, with a tough team to match) to become just another franchise. The US teams now don't even have to say where the city is, they go by their nicknames; Eagles, Saints, Rams etc. What with Cardiff changing from blue to red and Hull Tigers being floated, the NFL pattern seems to be coming over here too.

  136. Badarse

    Jun 08, 2015, 9:58 #71856

    The performances are poor; over-hyped and ego-driven players. All too quickly they swallow the hype-and that is at saturation point-they soon become financially insulated from reality, especially regarding the fans with disdain. They are in general, spoilt and pretentious individuals. Yet in amongst are a few diamonds. Goliaths, performing their art and plying their trade at a superlative level, reminding us of what can be attained, what once was the norm. Gentlefolk, I give you the film industry...the music industry...the political circuit...oh, and football. Anyone spot a pattern developing here?

  137. Ron

    Jun 08, 2015, 9:58 #71855

    40000 duped idiots paid to see that stage managed borefest yesterday Westie. Theres yr answer. It needs yet more football. They should restore the 'home internationals'now and have full TV coverage as well. The punters would lap it up and deserve it.

  138. Ron

    Jun 08, 2015, 9:46 #71854

    We are building - true. Its in a mess. The FIFA thing is the tip of the iceberg for footballs troubles. I read about Ashley Coles 20K champagne shower somewhere. Makes me glad i dropped out of football in the main 5 years back. Its a load of rubbish and there are few decent players as you rightly say. While the mugs keep paying for it and feeding the hype machine, its a while to go before its bubble shatters completely.

  139. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jun 08, 2015, 9:35 #71853

    IMO not just domestic football that's in the doldrums, football full stop is in a real trough right now. Yes OK, Messi, Xavi, Ronaldo are all fantastic players but there have been better players and there have been better sides too. Milan's superlative Lords of Discipline, anyone? Ajax 1971-1973 and Bayern 1974-1976? Since the 2010 world cup the overall quality is slowly eroding. Domestically, the league is very poor. Homegrown players sign the contract and then more or less retire. No need to get any better cos they're minted. Maybe the only one recently who did work on his game was Frank Lampard. Sad but true.

  140. Westlower

    Jun 08, 2015, 8:56 #71852

    The Ireland v England should be the last 'Friendly' International fixture ever played. What with the World Cup, European Championships, Copa America, Africa Nations, why oh why does football need more fixtures? Add to this club's commitments to oversea tours, qualifying games for Europa Laegue & ECL the game has reached saturation point. Less is more in this instance. I see my idol Maureen has been masturbating in public again. If only all coaches were as wonderful as him. His humility knows no bounds! w*nk, w*nk!

  141. Wear Your Colours

    Jun 08, 2015, 8:52 #71851

    The biggest difference between the clubs since the 2006 final is a guy called Lionel Messi.

  142. AMG

    Jun 08, 2015, 8:48 #71850

    Not a great performance from either team, Juve were a little Naïve getting caught on the break like that for the second goal. For me the best player on the pitch was Busquets, you can say what you like about Messi and Pogba and all those showy players. Everything Busquets does (apart from his play-acting) oozes class, the way he creates space for himself with the hint of a dropped shoulder, the first touch into space every time - Makes Arteta look like a Sunday league player. I felt for Pirlo at the end, he had a stinker, looked his age for once, a real shame. I hope Barca don't come knocking for Bellerin, not sure how he could refuse - Definitely a future world's best.

  143. julesd

    Jun 08, 2015, 5:45 #71849

    Sorry but I thought the game was more hype than substance, can't see what all the fuss is about regarding some of the players in the CL final.

  144. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 07, 2015, 22:37 #71848

    Sorry clicked the submit button to early on my last post (have a couple of lard arses with me drinking to much Carlsberg no not Eammon Holmes) and left out, and also like ourselves they will have their apologists.

  145. maguiresbridge

    Jun 07, 2015, 22:21 #71847

    Ron, I didn't see it myself but the press and media over here are going with the worst England team ever, and were you lucky to be alive to see it? (I had to laugh at that one) but i'm sure like ourselves the manager and team have a good spin doctor.

  146. maguiresbridge gooners

    Jun 07, 2015, 22:07 #71846

    jj, another name for the AKB's (if he hasn't been bandied already)when they ask who could replace their messiah, I think he'd look great wearing a puffa jacket over a skinny suit with pumps and no socks as he celebrates winning the prem league and jug ears.

  147. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 07, 2015, 21:48 #71845

    Ron, 75791 your spot on ref the good life the ordinary joe's of the PL (which we have many) and their inflated ego's experience over here, thinking they've arrived when they haven't and probably never will, when they aspire to what we seen last night and win what a lot of those players have maybe they can start talking a good game, and acting big and giving it large, partying and having a fag and mouthing off down microphones and get away with it having earned the right.

  148. Hiccup

    Jun 07, 2015, 17:52 #71844

    I'm sorry Kev, but with the title of this piece you make arsenal sound like a big club. We only aspire to participate in the CL, and that will apply for the foreseeable future. We have the same aspirations as Spurs, the only difference being we achieve ours. And why must we aspire to win it? Our fan base is more than happy to just participate, which in turn makes us better than Spurs. Let's not complicate things. Let's keep the bar where it is. Then we just have to keep fending off those behind us ie Spurs and Liverpool. And to be honest, that really is a p!ss easy kpi for Wenger to maintain. Mind you, listening to some on here, it's still called performing miracles.

  149. Frank

    Jun 07, 2015, 16:41 #71843

    Kev to win the CL you have to have ambition.Sadly that is what Arsenal lack.If the managers of Madrid Barca Bayern dont win their domestic titles or the CL they are fired.Its all part of the job title.Arsenal on the other hand are stuck with a manager who hasnt won the title for 11 years who hasnt got into the top 2 for 10 years and who has been an unmitigated FAILURE in Europe.The whole ethos of Arsenal is just to qualify for the CL every year nothing more.Can you imagine the manager of Barcelona saying 4th is a trophy.Wenger is clueless in Europe.If you go back to the quality of the players we had between 2002-04 its nothing short of a disgrace that they never even got passed the QF stage.The whole mentality of what is success has to change at Arsenal a cup win and 3rd/4th place is not success for a club the size of Arsenal.But under the ownership of Kroenke and managership of Wenger it never will change.I would love to know how Sanchez felt last night.Surplus to requirements at Barca yet he is Arsenal's best player.Can i ever see us winning the CL?No but i cant see us winning the premiership again either.Next year will be 10 years since we moved into the Emirates to help us compete with Barca.Dream on

  150. Bard

    Jun 07, 2015, 16:38 #71842

    Point taken Ron and its all opinion. I agree Messi at Arsenal wouldnt guarantee CL but 50 goals a season would be good enough for the PL. Heard an interesting story from a Barca fan who is Spanish and family. He said the unwritten rule at Barca is 'always give the ball to Messi' whoever you are, apparently Sanchez had other ideas and thats why they got rid of him.

  151. jjetplane

    Jun 07, 2015, 16:25 #71841

    Howabout Arsene slipped in a clause in the TV transfer that Barca pay an extra 3m if they win the CL. Not only do Arsenal not compete on the bigger stages, they are making money out of being serial losers. TV has played once. Eat your heart out Diaby. Kane off to Utd for 50m and that will put Giroud in the limelight.

  152. jeff wright

    Jun 07, 2015, 15:26 #71839

    Rasko , spot on with your comments another factor holding our progress back is Wenger's deluded AKB's who think that anyone who criticise him must be a spud and there for their points are not valid. This reflects their attitude to the old time-warp Tottenham rivalry that they still exist in and can't move on from .After all Arsene knows best and he has just won the FA cup again and that is good enough for them. You couldn't make it up.

  153. Ron

    Jun 07, 2015, 14:51 #71838

    Watching that lot in Dublin shd be an indicator to most of what the so called best of the PL is, or maybe what it isnt. Do you seriously think Messi would shine in amongst that lot Bard? Dreadful, but then theyre so tired i suppose!

  154. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 07, 2015, 14:35 #71837

    Lucky you Kev a chance to see some proper football played by proper world class players (not a carthorse in sight)who know they are, not second class ones who think they are. That's the difference in appearances in these sort of finals and semi's, and of course the biggest one of all a manager capable of getting them there with again the right players, tactics, etc, etc, that's why we'll never find ourselves in a final like that we haven't got one, the nearest ours is going to get is if he's commentating at one, and if he was last night maybe he had a good look and even had his photo taken with it, that's if they even let him near it.

  155. Rasko

    Jun 07, 2015, 14:20 #71836

    It's rather simple: Wenger has had 20 years in the CL and has never won it. Whilst teams like Barca are playing with fast world-class technicians like Neymar, Wenger is playing with Giroud. LOL. When we have fast players in attack they're clowns like Welbeck. For a start the Arsenal players aren't anywhere near the too class quality. I'd say Sanchez, Ramsey and Kos are genuine quality. That's it. Added to that, the manager is a tactical incompetent. It's clear the big clubs evolve by constantly looking to sigh better players to compete with the amazing ones they already have. Meanwhile, Wenger claims that his average team that has never won a CL and ain't done a thing in the PL for yonks, "doesn't need changes". A small-time mentality, which is why until Wenger leaves and a young, hungry manager with fresh ideas like a Klopp, like a Pep or like an Enrique comes in...Arsenal will continue to get humiliated by powerhouses like Monaco.

  156. jjetplane

    Jun 07, 2015, 14:00 #71835

    Funny enough, neither Neymar, Suarez or Messi had particularly good games last night. The breakaway play against such a good defence was something else and it is a little bit about what Chelski were doing in our league. Every bus eventually wants to get out the open road and you just knew that even the hyper-disciplined Juve would have no choice but to move up the field. This is just the sort of condition for the Messis and Hazards of the game. They normally score when the other side are in their silver lining. best game of the season by a mile and for all the prima donnas on show it was an amazing compression of retro and modern football. The support was fantastic and Juve were in fine form throughout whereas the Barca fans were more nervous. Will Aspiration be the new state of Cuspness for the coming season. One word on the barca boss. He wears pumps, skinny suits and no socks. That is what is needed at the Emirates. He would win the CL for Arsenal in two years and is he really leaving Barca? Our first friendly of the season is Wormley FC. They are bringing their veteran team as well. Bring it on!

  157. Ron

    Jun 07, 2015, 13:53 #71834

    Hed make a difference Bard, of course, but Messi wouldnt be what he is without what Barca have made him and what they offer him and his team mates. We see this when hes with Argentina. Hes still great, but the edifice hes part of makes him as much he makes them. Messi alone wdt raise AFC to CL winners in my view. Its too simplistic to think he could. They said the same when Maradona was at Napoli, but then as now, to explain what a Club at that level did greatly undervalued and underestimated the other players and how Napoli were set up back then.

  158. Bard

    Jun 07, 2015, 13:31 #71832

    Fabulous game last night. Im not sure about the analysis Kev Ron. Messi makes the difference. Put him in the Arsenal side and we would win the PL hands down. He is that good. Barca have some top players but he is the one that moves the team up several levels. He scores 50+ goals a season and he doesnt even play up front.

  159. Ron

    Jun 07, 2015, 13:24 #71831

    Hi Carlos. Yes. For sure. The major difference is in the professionalism in Europe. Therein is the discipline from which their game is based. The chain of command in all European Clubs starts at the top and runs downwards. The players respect it, whoever they are and tow the Clubs line in the main. Its nearly a case of the Club and Coach telling a player when hes fit for instance, rather than the other way around! In fairness to english players, i do feel that the climate in most of the top European countries assist tecnnique. We ve seen now and again how a few of the more intelligence english players thrived and improved beyond belief abroad. Hoddle, Hateley, Hughes, Macmanaman Lineker et al to name a few. They all accepted the dictat of the Clubs whom they served. Not to do so means 'early doors'for a player. Theres undoubted greater intelligence amongst European footballers, better discipline means an easier adopting of a Coach's tactical methods there. Here its money and the 'good' life thats allowed to run rife in players lives. Football is secondary. The hype inflates the egos of ordinary joes with little talent here. There's hype in and around euro Clubs too, esp the top ones, but its more measured, less wild and theres always a high strength counter critique of it, if a player or Club isnt performing too and it constrains the breeding of the arrogance thats endemic in football here. Coupled with the intelligence factor of the players, it doesn't rule everything else, its just a small aside. Its the European way about everything in life really. English football hasnt progressed greatly from the 50s really in terms of professionalism, training and technique vis the europeans. The marketing and hype as you say masks it to the games detriment and as such, theyre all lapping at the cash trough and the fundamentals of the game are left untouched. Its no secret why few british footballers make the cut in europe. Sadly they lack the rigour, application and discipline to stay the course that the Clubs lay down.

  160. Carlos

    Jun 07, 2015, 12:51 #71830

    Very pertinent comments Ron. Personally I get the impression from watching CL semi-finals and finals from since Chelsea won it, that there is a physical intensity and tactical intelligence at the top of what was once called “continental” football that doesn’t exist here; it was on show with the somewhat unsung heroes like Marchisio, Vidal , Rakitic and Mascherano last night. The Premier League is miles ahead in terms of marketing itself and the consequent ability to raise huge amounts of money for its teams, but it is far behind in terms of the quality of football on show, and markedly so in both the nous and the ruthlessness with which success on the pitch is pursued.

  161. We retained the cup (again)!!!

    Jun 07, 2015, 12:11 #71829

    Great final, Barcelona awesome. Arsenal's defending in the competition and league needs improving vastly before either competition is won

  162. Ron

    Jun 07, 2015, 12:05 #71828

    Hi Kev. I think one of the main things to emerge from the Euro footie scene this past Season has been to see the continuation of the rebirth of Italian football which Juve continued last night. Since 2006 to now the game in Italy rose, crashed, re established itself and now is is on the climb again. As we speak, in my view anyway, the PL declines. This past Season has been nigh on non competitive, Chelsea having been so far away better than the ordinary to mundane rest. Beautiful country is Italy and they love their football. The game needs a powerful Italian game to keep the CL interesting. The Munich/Spanish axis needs challenging. Alas, Arsenal nor any Club from the PL will do it. The European attitude to the European trophies is totally different, both at Club, player and fan level. UEFA could assist the pedigree of the Europa league by offering the PL Clubs an option to stay out of it as their approach to it is disgusting and recognized as such in Europe. Ironically, the true level the so called top PL clubs are at in my view is actually EL and not CL, yet the lethargy towards it remains. We as fans have to accept that there is every possibility that AFC will maybe never win the CL. The Club as it stands wont ever aspire to partake in events like last night. They might dream of it, but to aspire connotes intention to achieve such a goal. For AFC to do that would call for a whole culture change at the Club, change of owner, Coach and the majority of the players there too.