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1. Rocky RIP

   Jun 27, 2015, 9:06 #72360

   Lehmann's save v Raul, Arsenal v Real Madrid, Champions League, 2006. If you don't think that's 'top drawer' you need your head examined. That save won us the tie as much as Henry's goal at the Bernabeu. You don't see off the gallacticos with an average keeper.

2. Rocky RIP

   Jun 27, 2015, 8:52 #72359

   Lehmann was a top drawer keeper. No doubt about it. Very underrated. He had silly moments, but on balance he was fantastic. Cech should be a magnificent signing for us. I cannot quite believe they'll let him come to us.

3. Steve

   Jun 25, 2015, 13:10 #72313

   Late to this article. Lehmann was a top drawer goalkeeper. Yes he was a liability on occasions and was extremely temperamental but if you have any doubt about what he brought to that team I suggest you read the excellent 'Invicibles' by Amy Lawrence and see what the rest of the team said about his ability and the winning mentality that he brought into team when he signed and I think I'd take Henry, Wenger, Vieira, Campbell's opinion over yours......seriously you get some right turds on here.

4. Mathew

   Jun 25, 2015, 10:08 #72300

   Although Cech can be a stop gap for another 2 years, we need a top keeper to take us from there. Begovic and Foster looked impressive over these years.

5. Alsace

   Jun 24, 2015, 8:52 #72267

   M.G. Yes indeed. Of course it would restrict the swing terribly but definitely the puffa coat for the AKB team.

6. CT Gooner

   Jun 24, 2015, 2:32 #72264

   Best news since we got Mr Sanchez! As for Lehman, fantastic shot stopper, but an absolute head case and I'm sorry but too frequently a liability...

7. Badarse

   Jun 23, 2015, 17:31 #72254

   Kerryman Gooner, nothing, is the answer to your poser. Personally I think Wojek is the better, but Ospina is good. I do believe that Wojek has much more development within his capabilities, whereas Ospina has perhaps reached his zenith. So Wojek is a better investment in my book. Plus, with all his silly behaviour he is almost a local boy and that can be an advantage. Ospina will push off later in his career I think. Is your monicker a hint of Kerry? Haven't visited but have it on good authority it is magical.

8. Kerryman Gooner

   Jun 23, 2015, 17:18 #72253

   I think Cech will be a great signing. Been there and done it. A potential leader that we badly need. But I have been impressed by Ospina. What's wrong with a Cech/Ospina ticket ? Please enlighten me, who knows so little.

9. Highbury Boy

   Jun 23, 2015, 17:04 #72252

   Difficult to compare players in different eras but I always thought Jack Kelsey was the best. He saved us from relegation in the 50s. Later I stood at the Clock End singing "We all agree Lukic is better than Seaman" when rumours surfaced that GG was considering signing Seaman. I have to say GG was right. Lukic was a first class keeper but Seaman was better. GG certainly realised the importance of a well organised defence behind a top drawer keeper. I would hope that Cech would be like Jennings and while his best days have gone he is still clearly a top keeper and we could get another 3 good years out of him. I don't often agree with Terry but I think that Cech can save us 12/15 points a season.

10. Badarse

    Jun 23, 2015, 16:58 #72251

    I bet we agree on many things David, you just have to listen a little more clearly. Seriously, just try stepping into my shoes and viewing from there. Remember, 'We won the cup!' (Just noticed the code below is FzCUPk...it's a sign, ha ha.)

11. David

    Jun 23, 2015, 16:33 #72250

    Thanks Baddie - nice to agree on something.

12. Badarse

    Jun 23, 2015, 15:03 #72248

    I like that quip David...but rest assured we shall not accept him, no matter how hard he tries to align himself.

13. David

    Jun 23, 2015, 13:13 #72246

    As others have mentioned, jittery Jens often provided little comfort between the sticks; whereas Petr Czech is probably still the business. Strange thing that Abramovich is overriding Mourinho on this, as the manager seems pretty clear that he doesn't want to sell to Arsenal. It's one of those things - the nouveau riche like to be accepted amongst the aristocracy.

14. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 23, 2015, 12:28 #72241

    Alsace, wearing puffa jackets of course.

15. Alsace

    Jun 23, 2015, 11:24 #72239

    It is time that we settled the argument between AMG's and AKB's like men. On the Golf Course. The AKB's will not of course be allowed to use a driver, a sand wedge or a putter as they do not believe in the normal orthodoxies of sport. No, they will be using their children's cut down 7 iron for all of their shots. Tough in the bunker, off the tee and on the green, but marvellous for midfield elegance.

16. jjetplane

    Jun 23, 2015, 11:02 #72237

    And there speaks a self-confessed Shed man. Now all you need is to get yourself a spud patch and you are complete.

17. Finsbury Joe

    Jun 22, 2015, 21:43 #72229

    Watch the transition from a top , if slightly past it keeper, to Almunia with Wengers goalkeeping coaching setup. Arsenal, the graveyard for keepers, it will be a sad end for such a player.

18. Vinnie

    Jun 22, 2015, 20:56 #72228

    i agree with the article and it is proven Most of the titles won by United, liverpool, Chelsea and arsenal were when they had a truly top class keeper When we won in 89 many fans were surprised when graham then went out and bought Seaman as Lukic was a very good keeper but it proved Seaman was totally top drawer

19. Oops

    Jun 22, 2015, 20:15 #72227

    If that expression about chance conversion rate and save percentage is correct then no wonder we'll never win a thing! A donkey like Giroud up front (see Monaco game), and a joke in nets who basically concedes every time there's a shot in target!

20. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 19:54 #72226

    Talking of Cech and his keeper coach being an important signing, it would have been a hell of a lot more of an important one if he'd have brought his Manager with him.

21. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 19:44 #72225

    Mark from aylesbury, i think a lot of us have been saying that about peyton for years now mate, but as usual OGL couldn't, didn't want to, or just isn't capable of seeing it.

22. Wenger Out

    Jun 22, 2015, 19:00 #72224

    Jameson-The season United lost 5-0 and 6-3 in consecutive games they went on to win the league.When we lost 8-2 at Utd and 6-3 5-1 and 6-0 the season before last we finished FOURTH!!!!!.Dont remember United losing a 4-0 lead with 20 mins to go either do you?

23. Marcel

    Jun 22, 2015, 18:48 #72223

    This is the most important signing since Sol Campbell.Proven top top class in the premiership.Since Lehmann left we have been playing with a bunch of clowns in goal.Still cant believe with Wenger's so-called knowledge of French football he didnt sign Lloris before he joined Spurs.But it would have killed Szczesny of course.Now lets buy that DM and a quality striker

24. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jun 22, 2015, 18:37 #72222

    Is this an Ashley Cole moment ? A game changer? Chelsea supporters filling newspaper sites either gutted or spouting off rubbish. Life has suddenly got more interesting and maybe just maybe those peskie little ground hogs have retired to their burrows!

25. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jun 22, 2015, 18:28 #72221

    Papers now saying cech has signed

26. Mark from aylesbury

    Jun 22, 2015, 18:12 #72220

    Just read a comment from a Chelsea supporter groaning that we are potentially nicking their goal keeping coach as well as cech. If this is the case and I see from a comment here that one of our coaches has gone. Well a very decent goal keeping coach to challenge Peyton has to be good. Look at the evidence each keeper from Almunia onwards has looked an accident waiting to happen. Then Fabianski suddenly rediscovers his form at Swansea. I would look closely at Peyton.

27. chris dee

    Jun 22, 2015, 16:59 #72219

    Cech has just been signed.

28. Ron

    Jun 22, 2015, 16:56 #72218

    Jamie - Absolutely. Utd well beaten out of sight by better teams on the day. Cant recall them bottling it though, they were just hammered. Most fans take that on the chin. Wenger has never had a 'neighbour' of any great quality to get tonked by. The only dreamers on here are such as your good self i venture. The reality scares you to death.

29. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 16:41 #72217

    Tony Evans, you can bet he wouldn't, he wouldn't even be thinking about it, he'd just stumble on with what he has, yes Cech has fallen into his hands nicely apparently he's agreed terms and lets hope he brings his own coach with him, it/he might even help the keepers we already have, surely OGL can't cock this up.

30. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 16:30 #72216

    Sorry Ron forget that last post - a real senior moment.

31. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 16:03 #72215

    Ron: The OT game was a strange football event, a team completely reduced to a Sunday League standard, the fans singing for the team, the team did n't give a f*ck and the only winner was a Brazilian who got RVP's shirt! However that game never hurt me like the Stoke game because after Stoke I got it, I understood just how badly I had been taken in for the previous 3 - 4 years. I do however think that next season if we don't join the PL race and stay in it till the end, the disconnect will return.

32. Tony Evans

    Jun 22, 2015, 15:03 #72214

    Lehman was a decent keeper but was prone to the old rush of blood to the head that often undermined all the good saves he made. Played a blinder in the 2005 FA Cup Final but of course most of us will remember the 2006 CL Final where his sending off probably cost us the match.

33. Ron

    Jun 22, 2015, 13:52 #72213

    SKG - Agree with you totally. 'Live' games tell the story like TV never can don't they. That team has surrenders still lying latent within it im sure. The FAC this year was good, but Villa s tactics and body language seemed like they were pre conditioned to defeat and damage limitation prevailed as it turned out. They were disappointing. Even the bottling AFC teams that we speak of post 2006 have been able to see such as them off when a team is mentally brittle. Its the teams that show Arsenal no respect that Wenger and his charges fail to cope. No decent fan minds a loss, even a hammering. It happens when another side clicks. The bottle jobs though? Far too many in a short period of time. You know my view. He d have gone after the 8-2. As an away follower for yrs in the main its clear that some thing is wrong when us as the fans stayed inside OT singing the support, while simultaneously castigating the Manager and for many, simply reduced to laughing at the manner of the thumping. It was clear Wengers neck was made of brass that he simply passed it off as 'some thing that happens' afterwards and stayed in a job to tell the tale. I think you ll find many of them today who see no wrong in him have rarely if ever witnessed the away day surrenders we speak of. Yr right on AF too. His players feared him though. We ve not had that since GG s days.

34. Ron

    Jun 22, 2015, 13:37 #72212

    JL was good in that period. Best i ever saw him play though was one horribly cold Feb night in 05 i think at Anfield. We eventually gave out to a very late Garcia goal. 1-0. JL stopped the lot. Could have easily been 3 or 4 to nil. The Kop applauded him at the end as he signed off to them at full time. His best ever save for me was one at the Stretford End from a Utd player (the baby faced one whos name i can never recall). We won 1-0 in 06 when Adebayor scored the winner. JL had moments of brilliance of course and equally so was as rickety as hell, when his temperament wasnt quite on cue.Germany were right to rate Kahn higher.

35. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 13:34 #72211

    Ron : Those games you mentioned really laid the foundations of the discontent that has existed for some years at Arsenal. You like to think it is improving but every so often we get a throwback game that fills you again with dread & doubt. I have not watched more than a handful of games live since that Stoke game and they were all cup matches. What hurt me most was knowing that other top managers would only have allowed that kind of game to happen once - AF would have sacked players on the spot if they performed like that for Utd, that was what pleased me so much at this year's cup final - we competed from the first whistle and for me that is all I really ask.

36. Amos

    Jun 22, 2015, 13:19 #72210

    Bard. A pedantic point perhaps but rather than my example of the 2002 campaign illustrating that it is unlikely the PL can be won without a top class keeper I think your own claim that none of the keepers signed since Seaman 'could remotely be considered top class let alone world class' settles the argument by virtue of the fact that Lehmann was between the sticks throughout the 2004 unbeaten season doesn't it?

37. Ron

    Jun 22, 2015, 12:45 #72209

    SKG - I was there as well. It was worse than the 3 - 1 Cup drubbing a yr or so later. There were a few games at Stoke and elsewhere where AFC abdicated like that and handed the game over in truth. Almunia had his stinkers elsewhere too. I accept that. Ive seen the 'surrenders' (more than once at some venues) at Middlesboro, Stoke, Bolton, Blackburn, Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Sunderland, Chelsea, Swansea, Everton. Some of them so abject as to tarnish the Clubs reputation in my view. It reached the stage eventually that we could tell if a drubbing was on the cards by simply looking at them as they emerged from the tunnel. The most obvious one was the 4-0 FAC thrashing at OT. They didnt want to be there that day. Disgraceful. It was worse than the 8-2. id personally reached saturation point by 2010 and packed it in. There have been a few since as we all know. How Wengers survived there will remain a mystery to me.

38. Amos

    Jun 22, 2015, 12:27 #72208

    The thing with keepers is that, understandably I guess, it is seen as a solitary role and keepers are seen as either great or not in isolation. But put a good keeper in a great team and chances are you'll have a great keeper. Van der Sar was a good servant to ManU but the fact they were able to sign him from relatively lowly Fulham for a paltry £2m, seemingly as a stop gap, suggests that he wasn't valued among the world's elite at the time but looked the part for most of the time in a stronger side. If the team is struggling a little chances are he'll not look so good and if that is at a club like Arsenal (or another of the top sides) then the goldfish bowl effect magnifies any shortcomings. Hence to some effect 'Nayim from the half way line' unfairly defines Seaman in the minds of some as much as his achievements. It's true that many of those CL examples I gave were internationals Bard but then so was Lehmann - and as is Szczesny - and Ospina

39. Seven kings Gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 12:22 #72207

    Your point Ron, about the CB in front of Almunia is very valid. I gave up on Almunia and Arsenal at the away game with Stoke (01/11/09), we stunk the place out that day. We were cowards from the first whistle, Adebayor put in the kind of performance that disgraced the Arsenal shirt. The kindest thing I could say about MA that day was that he was not going to get too close to the Stoke players boots, or in another roundabout way he had not studied the Bob Wilson way of diving in head first after the ball. Both Stoke goals were stoppable if your keeper is prepared to get close to the action. Manual stayed well away from any confrontation that day, as did the rest of the Arsenal team - it was a lousy journey home.

40. Ron

    Jun 22, 2015, 11:59 #72206

    On Keepers, just thought id add my bit re Almunia. I never thought he was as chronic as he was made out to be. Recall v Utd. CL. Old Trafford. 1st leg. There that night. We lost 1-0. If not for MA it would for sure have been 5-0 and the tie over without the drubbing that was handed out to us at AFC in the 2nd leg. Saw him have a few inspired away games in fact. He was very much hobbled by the constantly changing and lack of competent CBs in front of him. I wouldnt wish the fate of Senderos and Djourou/Cygan/Song/Gilberto as CBs in front of any keeper. If Wenger does have a blind spot, its with CBs I venture. He got lucky with Big Sol and in my view never would have paid a transfer fee for him. Keepers are not 'islands'although i accept De Gea was more or less an island last season. Exceptional lad he is.

41. Ron

    Jun 22, 2015, 11:45 #72205

    SKG - I never knew that JM had dies so young. I saw Ian McKechnie only once I believe unless memory serves me badly. 1963 - Villa away. My very first Gunners match home or away. We lost 2-1. As you say R.I.P IM. Recall being so disappointed that we wore white shirts, shorts and red socks and not the famous (nowadays so horribly b a s t a r d i z e d) regular kit that day. Tony Hateley took us apart. Fans were still unsegregated then too!

42. Bard

    Jun 22, 2015, 11:43 #72204

    Amos thanks for that. I'm happy to agree to disagree with many about Lehmann. Those CL keepers mentioned were all internationals, so as far as I can see your argument rests on the us winning the league in 2002 with Seaman playing few games. If so it makes the case that its possible to win the PL theoretically but unlikely. Im happy with that.

43. Amos

    Jun 22, 2015, 10:03 #72203

    Bard, not many teams have won the PL since 2000 but taking you on your own argument that Lehmann wasn't a top keeper then Arsenal is one side that has a title without a top keeper in that time. Similarly Seaman played less than half the 2002 season with Richard Wright and Stuart Taylor sharing the rest of it between them. There are those who might argue that Joe Hart as keeper for most of the two City title campaigns is not really the world's finest - at least he has had periods when he has seemed anything but. As for CL keepers there are quite a few questionably outside the world's elite. Liverpool won it using a combination of Dudek, Kirland and Carson. Dida won it with Milan, Baia with Porto, Cesar with Inter and Barca's Valdes has often had his critics and when Barca signed Ter Stegen for £8m to help them win the last CL campaign few saw him as the world's finest either.

44. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 9:14 #72202

    Great comments here lads : I was remembering the Arsenal keepers I grew up with and saw Jack Kelsey a few times and then Jack McClelland & Ian McKechnie. Just checking a few facts and discovered that Jack McClelland, (who my sister thought was gorgeous)sadly passed away at the age of 35 with a brain tumour and on the 11th June, this month Ian Mackecknie died. We all post things on a weekly and daily basis, agreeing and disagreeing with each other but when an old player passes away it always seems to take a little bit of you with them. RIP Ian.

45. Westlower

    Jun 22, 2015, 9:03 #72201

    Anyone else watch reported Arsenal target William Carvalho in action for Portugal U21's last night? Pluses: Great vision & range of passing. Minuses: Static, weak tackler given his physical strength. Conclusion: Think Tom Huddlestone.

46. Tony Evans

    Jun 22, 2015, 8:33 #72200

    Bard - Does Wenger have a blind spot for keepers or perhaps, as Ron says, he just doesn't value the position highly enough. The only time he spent any remotely serious money on a keeper was the £6M he paid for Richard Wright - which backs up the blind spot theory, but the fact that he has allowed the likes of Almunia and co to carry on regardless for nearly 10 years does appear to back up Ron's assessment that the position does not feature highly enough on Wenger's radar. Indeed is Cech another Sol Campbell situation where Wenger just can't go wrong - quality player for next to nothing? If Cech wasn't available would Wenger even be looking at replacing the 'world class' keepers that he has on the books already?

47. RedHotChiliSanchez

    Jun 22, 2015, 8:20 #72199

    You can't say in one breath: Lehmann wasn't top drawer, and then in another: 'you cannot win the league without a top class keeper'? He went unbeaten in the league, won countless trophies, and was Germany's number 1. There is no doubt for a good 3 years he WAS world class. I agree though, it's been a shambles since him.

48. Badarse

    Jun 22, 2015, 8:06 #72198

    Wow, where did that come from? Ash Dev Goon, is it something in the water down your neck of the woods? Did the collapse of the Lib Dems throw you all out of kilter? It shouldn't have because you've always been closet Cameron people. I am comfortable with disagreement, if as a humanist my posse is estimated at 2% of the world's population you adopt a siege mentality after my number of years. Your nine years old doesn't smoke? I should hope not, and I should hope you set a good example by not smoking either, but for you it's choice isn't it? So no thought police admonishing you. You clearly are locked into your own world, and despite me offering you a key you choose to stay behind bars, again your choice. Go to another club? This is the most hilarious suggestion I've ever encountered-no one would have me! Who/what is Arsenal? Well I get irritated when pseudos criticise my club, my stadium, my players, my manager, and of course me. As I said I am comfortable with disagreement but personal jibes about my club and myself don't go down too well. In your book it probably doesn't make me Arsenal either. Please don't teach your child this, it isn't becoming of Arsenal.

49. Joe S.

    Jun 22, 2015, 0:39 #72197

    I don't know what all this fuss about goalkeepers is about. Arsenal could still easily win the EPL if they invested in two top quality out field players - you know thee ones who are being immediately snapped up by other clubs, regardless of the price.At this stage,although its very much early days is that the cash won't be splashed not when ,,,, whatever. Jacks the man etc etc.In reality Arsenal have two decent keepers. The team has only been losing by the odd goal, often the result of a lost ball in midfield or poor man to man marking. It surprises me that even the more intelligent heads on this site keep carping on about something that shouldn't even be considered when there are more important weaknesses to cover.

50. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 22, 2015, 0:35 #72196

    John F, so Roberts has joined flappy at Swansea that says it all, he didn't do much for him or the rest when he was with us, maybe he'll have more luck there time will tell, or maybe there again he wasn't allowed to that's why he left. Peyton's place? good one but more fitting would be arsenes place after all the faith OGL has had in him all these years for no return.

51. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 21, 2015, 23:41 #72195

    North Bank Nutter, your right about Chesney, and it's the same with smoking jack and even wally and a few others, they think they've arrived and have for years now, with nothing to learn, and that's their down fall, and all because a past it manager (and his fans) led them to believe it, with among other things inflated salaries/contracts and no discipline whatsoever and the outcome is there for all to see.

52. John F

    Jun 21, 2015, 23:18 #72194

    Hi MG One of our goalkeeping coaches Tony Roberts has left to join flappy at Swansea with rumours that ospinia has agreed terms to move to fenerbache. It looks like it is all going to happen. Perhaps Gerry Peyton will now have time to make a film about his house he could call it the return of Peyton place.Good post Ron we were spoiled now it would be hard to name more then a handful of class Goalkeepers in Europe.Perhaps Cech is the best that is available for us.I read on one Chelsea website who are upset that he is coming to us.Here's hoping that my doughts about cech are wrong and he can be as Amos mentioned like big Pat.

53. Ashburton, Devon Gooner

    Jun 21, 2015, 22:54 #72193

    Badarse, Thank you for your correction, it was indeed Lev. I must reiterate my point however. Chesney is not Arsenal material. You can pretend, you can love love him, you can worship him, you can praise him but you cant make him better than Lukas Fabianski - And we are talking about Professional Sport here. Not some Mickey Mouse "turn up if you want to" game of Rounders. Compared to International Quality Goal Keepers Im really sorry pal but he is a clown. He exudes nothing that as a Spectator, let alone a Defender would consider confidence. He has a negative, playful, defeatist demeanour. It is ok to lose with Woycheck and his £26m "Ive done f-all to deserve this" attitude. I wanted him out since the 1st January "I can smoke if jack can smoke" incident and if he was on my Pay Roll he would be. My 9 year old can play and he chooses not to smoke. Not because one cigarette will end his career but because his attitude will end his career! And you defend this CLOWN. Mate, move on to another club FFS

54. Eddie

    Jun 21, 2015, 22:41 #72192

    For 4 years Van Der Saar was playing for Fulham.We could have signed him anytime during that period before Sir Alex snapped him up.We could have got Lloris before he moved to the Spuds.When it came to keepers Wenger was plain stubborn.How can anyone explain Almunia being first choice for 4 years? My top 3 Arsenal keepers 1.Big Pat 2.Spunky 3.Lehmann

55. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 21, 2015, 22:27 #72191

    John F, indeed, because our own coach/coaches certainly aren't up to much (and that's putting it mildly) so like I've already said a few days ago, lets hope that's not the stumbling block.

56. Badarse

    Jun 21, 2015, 22:25 #72190

    Ash Dev Gooner, it was Lev Yashin. I had the good fortune to see him in the '66 Play-off Final at Wembley, he was a star! However I think you should have a night out at Billy Smart's as you think some people are clowns, and they clearly are not. Prejudice and all that? Sweeping statement that Sir Chesney is not Arsenal? Well the remit and qualification-like those for the fans-is a fluid ever-changing model. Shay Given? We didn't buy but if memory serves me correctly he was injured immediately. So thought, 'Phew, that was a close shave!' Good luck to your lad, and vague but sound advice, because it creates the imagery that we are special and it can raise a youngster's game, even an old greybeard needs to cling to role models. I thought Yossi did a good job for us, by the way. In my other post I said I rated Wojcek over Ospina, so I guess I too am a clown. That must be why my bow tie keeps spinning around!

57. Ron

    Jun 21, 2015, 21:56 #72189

    I think us elder statesmen are to blame for the perception of the keeper conundrum as we lived thro an era where there was maybe 15 excellent goal keepers in a 22 team Div 1, some were legendary greats. English football was spoiled for many, many years in beteen the sticks and we expect the same today and expect AFC to go pluck a keeper off a goalkeeper tree This is why we slight the Almunias of this World and to a degree the Lehmanns. The latter was a good keeper, never great. He played in front of a top defence in Sol and Kolo and Ralph et al. In front of later defences Lehamnn would have gone bald in 90 mins i venture. His temperament was shakey at times. Reality is that the Keeper position has lost prominence as the rules of the game have changed to crreate goals galore which has co incided with weaker and less able defences. Todays razzed up game is about forwards and as such keepers are exposed and thus open to ridicule where once they werent. We do see the odd nugget though. Shay Given was Wengers biggest miss. Ive fairly good authority (as far as a fan can ever get from insider chat at another Club) to say that him coming to AFC was close, but reluctance to pay the extra shilling stopped it back in 2004/5 time. I dont think AW has a blind spot about how good a certain goal keeper is per se. He knows a good one, but demotes the importance of the keeper in a progressive expansive team. Its more a risk he s prepared to run with rather than being blind to keepers. Theres a subtle difference. Its a mistake though in my view so Bards thrust of his post is sound. The very real fact is that to win top trophies far better keepers are needed at AFC. As im writing this im recalling George Wood and as a kid, Jim Furnell, so poor keepers at Arsenal arent alien to the Club. Arsene, so get Begovitch. Hes far than better than Cech.

58. Badarse

    Jun 21, 2015, 20:06 #72188

    Seven Kings Gooner, a wonderful observation regarding Jimmy Rimmer, he was indeed a brilliant shot stopper. Thank you Bard, I liked it. I am amused by the differences of opinion, because if you don't laugh you may indeed cry. Such diverse views about a simple assessment can cause a rift like the San Andreas Fault-which is only marginally narrower than the 'Arsene Wenger's Fault'. I really rated Mad Jens, a supremely intelligent man who still has the respect of such high profile 'Invincibles' as Freddie, who visited him in Germany not so long ago. He was crazy, but most keepers are just a tad bonkers. Even more alarming, as previously stated I rate Sir Chesney, and could do well serving a season under Cech's tutelage, but we shall see. Good to read your immodest and informative views once more Amos, I have missed you-many can learn from you, sadly quite a few cannot. Just as a reminder, 'We won the cup!'.

59. JohnF( 52 and 2 months)

    Jun 21, 2015, 20:04 #72187

    Jimmy Rimmer kept us up in 1975 without him our history could have been so different and it shows the value of a top goalkeeper to the side.Lens did make a few errors like most goalkeepers but he had such a strong personality that I believe our own defenders were scared of him let alone the opposition.As mentioned before the biggest addition if cech signs is the inclusion of his coach in the deal.

60. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 21, 2015, 19:38 #72186

    Jimmer Rimmer was the best shot stopper I ever saw in an Arsenal jersey. Saw us beat West Ham 3 - 0 - Brady curled in a beaut but in the opening minutes we could have been a couple down but for his saves. This was I think Mancini at centre back so Jimmy got plenty of practise. I think you will find JR missed the European Cup Final, was it Spink in goal?

61. Shu

    Jun 21, 2015, 18:43 #72185

    Arsenknewbest , fair enough with your point of view and lukic was very underated . Jimmy Rimmer was the first keeper i remember , didnt he play half a game for England v USA and played 45 mins .

62. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 21, 2015, 17:53 #72184

    How many times have we been saying that over the last ten years, and it's always the same and it will come as no surprise to any of us if it's the same again this season. The keeper situation is a blind spot all right Bard (thanks for reminding us) one of many, (the same with the turkeys) but OGL knows best if he says a lard arse, a flappy, a nice boy, are the best keepers in the prem they must be (as far as some are concerned anyway) but it's more like he wouldn't know one, or how to spot one if he jumped up and bit him, and the last ten years of second raters proves it.

63. Big Andy

    Jun 21, 2015, 16:58 #72182

    A good article - but you're wrong about Lehmann; he was quality. Wenger's a failure to sign a decent keeper since the big German is just another indication of how much he has lost the plot in the last ten years. Wenger's insistence that Giroud is a title-winning striker is another. That's why we need a new manager.

64. Bard

    Jun 21, 2015, 16:20 #72181

    Always good to read debates. Amos last time I looked no team has won the CL or Pl without a top keeper since at least 2000. if I have missed a factoid happy to be corrected. A list of teams that have won those titles without a top keeper would be welcome support for your argument.

65. TJ

    Jun 21, 2015, 12:01 #72180

    @Clockend Gooner, this is a forum for people to discuss Arsenal and their different views on the club. Firstly, it is simple-minded in the extreme to say we should 'get behind the team' as online debate has no negative effect whatsoever. Secondly, you're on here telling people not to use the site in the way it is DESIGNED to be operated- if you don't like people expressing their opinions then don't read the site and certainly don't comment.

66. jjetplane

    Jun 21, 2015, 12:00 #72179

    Talking of blind spots whatabout Jimmy Rimmer who missed 3 games in 3 seasons got a player of the year and when TN kicked him out for a spud he went to Villa and won the Euro Cup. Dracula! Anyway, Fingers Furnell was better than Chesny ...... & Ospina should be driving a fork lift not a defence and I am afraid Czech looks ready for a bit of showtime mexican wrestling. The youth team GK has a commanding beard so why not propel him into Selfieland sharpist. Who knows, for once an AMOS lecture might seem something other than 'the computer software vs poster' ..... Bit windy what - how am I suppose to catch it boss?

67. Westlower

    Jun 21, 2015, 11:33 #72178

    Between August 2003 to June 2007, Lehmann kept 52 clean sheets in the PL, one behind Cech. Ospina is the most likely to make way for Cech, as Szczesny is one of our 8 'home grown' players.

68. Clockend Gooner

    Jun 21, 2015, 11:16 #72177

    Madness. Lehmann was quality. And anyone who has been around for longer than the Arsene Wenger years will tell you that. If only it was that easy to buy a Seaman when the need arises. Or Wrighty, or a Bergkamp, or a Henry. Madness. I actually find this article piss poor and a needless attempty to pick out faults at a time when we should be positive and getting behind the team for hopefully greater victories ahead.

69. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 21, 2015, 10:41 #72176

    Shu - I'm 51 if that helps. How old are you? Bard's article talks about the supposed lack of quality gks since/since Seaman (i.e. not in the entire history of the Arsenal). We debated on here a few months ago about our long legacy of gks, and I made a case for Lukic and Jimmy Rimmer alongside the more recognisable figures like Seaman, Jennings and Kelsey. Good to see others on here who agree about Lehman. I'd only add it's a shame that he seems to divide opinion because I thought he was a great addition to our team. But hey, maybe I'm going senile...

70. North Bank Nutter

    Jun 21, 2015, 10:21 #72175

    Totally totally totally disagree about Lehman. He was top draw. Google that save he made vs Raul in the CL, I was right behind it and for the life of me couldnt believe he got finger tips to a shot that was destined for the corner. Also FA cup final 2005, we where being battered by man utd couldnt get out of our own half and Lehman was exceptional. People say Cech hasnt been the same since his head injury the stats would suggest otherwise. A very good addition to the squad. As for Chesney, he has soo much potential but such a Bendtner type attitude. Until he gets rid of this and knuckles down he wont fulfill his potential. Ospina im sorry to say should leave if we sign Cech, he deserves first team football.

71. TJ

    Jun 21, 2015, 10:17 #72174

    Jens the Layman was the most overrated GK of all time. He had a few great matches like the cup final in 2005, but if you watch season review videos the comments are full of complaints about him, even during the Invincibles season! Even when he came back a few years ago he was reckless (could have been sent off against Blackpool) but still got praised...

72. Redsy

    Jun 21, 2015, 10:14 #72173

    Note Lehman wasn't top class really says who ? you're unreal oliver khan was the only reason he wasnt germanys most decorated keeper

73. Wolfgang

    Jun 21, 2015, 9:53 #72172

    Arsenal have never had a top quality gk since lehman left.All these guys have been at least one rung below the top custodians at Chelsea/Mu/Mc.All three teams have won the epl since 2207.Arsenal have hardly alook in. Assuming Czech is delivered ,I believe the gunners will finally be able to challenge for the epl.Make no mistake,Czech will cut out the errors that have cost the gunners dearly the last 10 years. If the defence can be relied on,I believe the gunners will finally fight for the epl until the final days of the next season.

74. Shu

    Jun 21, 2015, 9:48 #72171

    Arsenknewbest , if you think Lehmann was a top keeper i would guess you are very young . He was a total liability and always potentially going to explode . The champs league final showed this . We also have the same issue with chesney too . The best teams generally have a world class goalie , we don't !

75. Amos

    Jun 21, 2015, 8:56 #72169

    Not a uniquely Wenger blind spot by the logic employed here. Kelsey was signed as a non-league player and spent some time in the reserves, being dropped more than once even as a first team player. Bob Wilson was signed as an amateur and took a while to find a first team place. Pat Jennings was a Spurs cast off and was signed for peanuts. Setting that aside can you win trophies without a top class keeper? Depends how you see top keepers I suppose. In this context I suppose it means an established keeper with a major regular trophy winning side. Are any of Barca's keepers really recognised as the best in the world? Even Casillas has had his critics of late and the list of those genuinely world class is relatively short while many who are, are still not without their critics. It's also often misleading to assume that a keeper with a successful history playing behind a team that usually plays a cautious defensive game offering their keepers a good degree of protection can be as successful in a team playing with a more open expansive style. History shows that it is perfectly possible to win major trophies even if your keeper isn't presently ranked among the very top and it also shows that in order to be ranked among the very top in many cases all it takes is to win some trophies.

76. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 21, 2015, 8:54 #72168

    Bard - thanks. Have to disagree with you about Lehmann. He was a sound keeper who generally gave his defence confidence (something many others in recent times have not done). I'm sure there's a blooper reel somewhere (as there is for spunky), but the point is that he came out after any howlers and put things right. He was also ready to fight for the cause, and if that sometimes went beyond being just a figurative description of his combativeness, then all well and good. I fondly remember him standing up to all and sundry, and it somehow galvanising the team to go on and secure vital points. It's hard to quantify, but I reckon teams need characters who do more than just play. You could (easily) make the case that spunky was a better technician, but Lehmann was "top, top quality" for this former disciple of OGL. Agree that securing a good challenger for Ospina ought to be a priority. I think opposing teams also change their strategy according to who is between the sticks, so if we can get a consistent performer with a reputation then that can only help the back four. There's also the longevity question - nothing wrong with signing a thirty-something keeper if they meet the criteria above. Casillas still looks pretty capable in my view.