Does Supporting a Club Help to Mould Your Character?

Perhaps the Spurs kids of today are doomed to a life of suffering!



Does Supporting a Club Help to Mould Your Character?

Frank Mac: Formative influence on the author?


In the briefest of exchanges with our esteemed leader (Gooner Editor Kevin, not Arsène Wenger), a casual remark gave the kernel of an idea for this article. So, with the acceptance that from tiny acorns….. (I should perhaps leave the fruit of trees to the botanists), here is the article all the same.

Has being an Arsenal fan shaped my character? I believe it has. I think in certain areas of each individual's psyche, tiny modulations take place as a result of the support we give, and these are the changes I speak of. It's true that every experience has a slight impact and can change anyone's characteristics - every experience is potentially personality-changing - so football-supporting can not only add to the altering, but can possibly redirect. I will offer this as a personal observation in the form of a question - has anyone ever come across a well-balanced, affable and pleasant Tottenham fan? A bit of a general enquiry of course, but many I meet are a little on their guard and an eeny weeny bit 'sour'. I may be imposing my own interpretations, but many seem slightly envious of my badge, intent on just being a little spiteful, mildly vinegary in their outlook. I find it doesn't take much to remove their masks, which usually puts them more on the defensive, at this point any 'Hyde' characteristics show through the 'Jekyll' veneer. Do you not experience the same? Of course, the key to answering the question is whether these traits are carried over into an everyday existence. The fortunes of their club, the frustrations brought about by those poor fortunes, our near proximity serving as a constant reminder of what could be, all go into the mix. Perhaps the answer might be that with some, by small measure they are.

So the club - any club, its history, tradition, status and standing in the eyes of the general public and the media - all have an input on the individual's perceptions. Many years ago I went to Griffin Park semi-regularly over a couple of seasons, when the Arsenal were away and I couldn't travel. Every time the ball was skied into the roof of the stands (and that particular skill was oft employed in the old fourth division) the regulars would duck their heads and pull collars up as the rust, dislodged by the ball, would rain down on them. They treated it as a big giggle. Some perhaps just went for this innocent, fortnightly event. It generated a sense of togetherness, and displayed the plucky little effect of fans recognising how low down the evolutionary scale, in terms of status, their wonderful and homely little club was. Their 'Bees Social Club' was a delightful place, where that kind of attitude flowed, along with the local Fullers ales.

All circumstances of existence, like the aforementioned, can bring forth a number of automatic reactions depending on the individual's situation and personality traits. If you are a miserable and moaning type, then it's a certainty that, when a club’s form dips, the supporter will go into grumpy overdrive. If you are a head-in-the-clouds type, then most things, including a run of poor form of your chosen club, will slip by almost unnoticed. In fact, every trait is likely to influence everything, and probably manifests itself in a variety of ways. We, of course, remain inherently who we are, but are there insidious amendments taking place, and some perhaps stemming from a childhood linked to our support, which have a bearing on our character? Probably, or maybe just possibly.

A football-supporting life can be a real life in microcosm; if a situation occurs which is painful, and reoccurs, then surely over time we adjust and the pain diminishes? We deal with it in an adult fashion, as with pretty much all circumstances which present themselves, though it's true some cannot, or will not adjust. There is an irony in that last statement. Fans who are anti-Wenger voice the saying 'the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome', and they themselves repeat and repeat, getting the exact same outcome. Some character traits are amusing in their contradictions. Is this real life, or just football-fantasy life?

Our society is going through monumental changes, and will continue to do so, probably at an ever-faster rate. Our politics are treated like a visit to the supermarket. 'I don't like what this lot are doing for me/giving me, so I'll give this other lot a try.' We appear to believe that getting the correct political organisation is akin to ordering something on Amazon. How else could you ever explain the popularity of UKIP? So is it any wonder that our approach to the running of a football club follows the same direction? My experience is that most in this country know more about football than politics anyway, so that may be why the general comprehension of Machiavellian chicanery in politics causes such a disengagement.

As football, especially at the Arsenal, is moving into another realm, cloaked in secrecy, and seemingly-underhanded manoeuvring prevails, all linked to a financial dog-eat-dog situation, is it any wonder that people are confused, leading to a disenchantment? Be very sure to move with the times; this is now, and those wailing on the side-lines for those headier days will soon become dinosaurs. However unpalatable today's football scene appears, it is what it is. Football mirrors life, and if the mirror is distorted then the reflection will be too. Then it could be suggested that the advent of supermarkets and Amazon have perhaps, partially at least, influenced our view and considerations of Arsenal Football Club. This is a reverse-case scenario of outside influences moulding our character, which impacts in a fashion on the individual's view of their football club. Every step we take, every judgement made, is inexorably linked to our views and beliefs (that is a given) as are prior footsteps trodden, but do the shape, style and behaviour of a football club influence any route we have taken, or will take, in life and the manner we employ? I believe in small part it does.

Each of us joined this football-supporting merry-go-round at different junctures. We were victims of the era we lived in, and the morals of society's accepted practices came with us; those lionhearts who represented our club became our gods. I had a dormant Charlie George-type characteristic within; it flourished with his bursting onto the scene. I idolised Big Raddy and his wholehearted and honest endeavours on the pitch. Being an older brother, Raddy showed me there was a certain honour in the way he shielded and protected Ray Kennedy on the pitch as the younger player developed under his tutelage, especially in that first season together. As the oldest brother I was often thrust into the firing line as reluctant leader, then I witnessed Frank McLintock, and every day since I have tried to be a skipper. These are fragments of my personal story, and others with a different personality might have experienced exactly the same but responded quite differently. As I stated earlier, we are who we are, but those little nudges perhaps redirect some, if not all, of us.

With today's social networking we have a new rogue ingredient - a threatening new-kid-on-the-block. Using the adage that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, we find someone extolling a certain attitude and that disembodied voice attracts followers whether it be by Twitter or any of the seemingly unnatural lines of communication (unnatural to an old greybeard anyway). Ulterior motives, secret agendas, an approach laced with generalisations, inflated egos, and a bombastic approach in telling it as it is, impresses some; then the bandwagon begins to roll, and a herd can morph into a mob. Isn't this a display of football fan-share mentality? Put another way, isn't this another example of being a fan and having your character moulded?

If this concept is established as being real, along with all the chaotic and confounding ramifications of what life throws at us, should we try to adjust our thinking of the football club in question? To ignore the weight of change happening all around is to bury one's head. To hanker for yesterday is both unhealthy and fruitless. Harking back to days, players and styles by comparison sometimes leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. Act like a dinosaur and perish - metaphorical asteroids are crashing to earth daily.

By recognising the loyalty, and therefore the hold, that a football club has over any us, knowing our personal strengths and weaknesses character-wise, the realistic acceptance of the climate we are now operating in, and what it all means, is a move in the right direction. It is an adult understanding at least, despite its being perhaps an unasked-for conclusion; in itself that offers yet one more moulding. With the sham and deceptive manoeuvrings of FIFA, the pigs-in-a-trough mentality of the elite orchestrating matters, there is a general acceptance of the clamour for more goodies, which we consider a right for ourselves, and therefore we perhaps do not baulk at others who are moving around on the same board playing that particular game. It offers a convoluted set of circumstances. Football is a simple game, but Greaves' regular comment 'it's a funny old game, Saint’ still resonates.


NEW! Subscribe to our weekly Gooner Fanzine newsletter for all the latest news, views, and videos from the intelligent voice of Arsenal supporters since 1987.

Please note that we will not share your email address with any 3rd parties.


Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

54
comments

  1. Richard Houston

    Jun 27, 2015, 14:14 #72364

    im a gooner because of my dad,he grew up in Turfnel Park.And at the time of the 1978/79/80 cup finals. Went to my first game at Highbury aged 12 with a Liverpool supporting friend. After that i was hooked.Had a season ticket for a couple of seasons,George last season and the start ot Bruce.Moved to Surrey,then Hampshire,two young kids,couldnt afford to go.So gave up my season ticket.With that ive hardly seen the gunners in the flesh. Am i any less of a fan? i dont think so. Remember bunking off school to go Highbury on a friday morning. walk into the stadium. Through the clock end,around the pitch,looking up to the east and west stands,then towards the north bank.Kids couldnt do that today.Was alot easier. football is all about money. Ive got my memembership and will see if i can get to see the lads again.i still feel alot about arsenal,my team,my club,my memories,the link to my past,my dad and even my son is a fan.think its a question of how you as a person sees football and your team.for me arsenal is always will be a part of me. life isnt a instant cup of coffee,more about moments in time. from my age 48 ive seen alot the arsenal have done well,and the disapointments too. alittle like life.we dont get everything at once. a moment in time.

  2. Rocky RIP

    Jun 27, 2015, 13:19 #72362

    Interesting article. I'd say certain clubs attract a certain breed of character, which aren't always apparent to the untrained eye. The fortunes of their club can then compound these character traits.(Or in some cases it can re-invent their fan base.) Much as certain creatures will invariably inhabit a certain wildlife habitat, football grounds will attract certain breed of punter. For example, it took a certain type to regularly and willingly attend Cold Blow Lane. Stoke still host a certain strain of attendee. Similarly, a different type of fan was drawn to the charm and class of Highbury and its marble halls, art deco architecture and 'relatively' safe feel, amid a world when football grounds were intensely hostile places. Arsenal's tradition of inclusiveness meant we attracted a lot of black fans at a time when places like Chelsea and Leeds were handing out National Front literature. For me, Bob Wilson represents the type of Arsenal fan that drew me to The Arsenal. Polite, charming, reasonable and balanced in his opinions and intelligent. (And no, we are not all like that, not even close!) Since Arsenal moved, the landscape has changed, as has the breed of fan in many ways. (Which I find MUCH harder to identify with.) Chelsea's fortunes means their fan base has shifted somewhat, even if they do have a white, home counties, racist tendency which re-surfaces sometimes. Anyway, I think you get my point. Our characters were there in the first place which is what drew many to a certain feel at the club they chose.(Some didn't choose I accept, but many of us did.) Liverpool in the 70s/80s always attracted the painful glory riders at school in London. Who probably never went. A baton later handed on to Man U. An inevitable consequence of huge success. As for Tottenham, when I grew up they were the most gloating bunch I've ever encountered on the back of a few cup victories. Unbearable lot. Glory blown out of all proportion. History re-written. Sustained failure has led them to have the angriest, vilest and most bitter fan base around. With a superiority complex and a tendency to celebrate and crow too soon. (Our fans tend to be a more pessimistic type.) Arsenal failing makes me downright miserable, but I'm not sure it would drive me to want to attack women and children and innocent scarf wearers visiting our stadium, as is regularly the case at WHL. So in summary, yes clubs do help mould your character, but as I've said, it's a certain character that is drawn to the club in the first place. Part of the deal of starting supporting Arsenal was that there is a fair bit of stability based on the fact that we never seem to get relegated (compare that with every other club) and that success may take a while to come, but it was always likely at some point.

  3. David

    Jun 26, 2015, 14:18 #72354

    Ron - Let us not forget that Osama Bin Laden was an Arsenal fan also. Rory McGrath and Alan Davies are disturbing evidence of the impact on humour. Only Clive Anderson saves the day. Anyway - who the blazes cares - we have a new keeper.

  4. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jun 25, 2015, 18:28 #72326

    Jamerson - Aylesbury Chelsea Chavi land? Not in my day it weren't . North Londoners settled in Aylesbury so Arsenal and Spurs with usual Liverpool and some Manutd. Might be more Chelsea these days as some parents want their children to support winning teams. Haven't been back for years the name refers to town of birth. These days live in Suffolk after 25 years in London.

  5. Tony Evans

    Jun 25, 2015, 8:12 #72297

    To all the 'older fellers' on this site - great memories lads and aren't we lucky to have them.

  6. John F

    Jun 25, 2015, 7:50 #72294

    Enjoyed reading that Ron.Mark I watched the u tube of the 2nd leg and the replay The highlights included the amount of chances Allen missed a nice bit of sportsmanship by Mabbutt someone although a spud I respected,hated Graham Roberts tho.Some nice touches by Charlie nick who used to divide Arsenal fans about his ability.The atsmosphere for that game was special just look at the Arsenal fans behind the goal.As Paul macartney said about the sixties i do not know if I miss those time or just miss being younger.

  7. Ron

    Jun 24, 2015, 23:38 #72293

    John F - a mate and me only got tickets through a Liv supporter soldier and his mate who cdt go as they were abroad some where. Pure good fortune. Just being at Anfield outside the ground that night was tremendous. You know how you feel 'pressured' as a fan at big away games dont you. That night it wasnt like that. It was just good to go and ive often wondered if the fans joyousness filtered through to the players. The way we played, 3 cb s at the back yet playing ambitiously suggested the players felt assured and the longer it went the better they got. It was a great night and the Kop saluted our lads at the end. They say that a few of the Liv players wdt shake hands? i dont know. It was just carnage at the end in the ground and outside. Thankfully i was working near Chester at that time so journey to the digs was an hour or so. It was still 3.00 am before got back. Never forget that night. Im sure the 1971 night at WHL was as good though, if not better. My Uncle took my Cousin with him to that so couldnt go. Regret big time. They still speak of it of course. Oh to, oh to be a Gooner way back then guys.

  8. smithy

    Jun 24, 2015, 22:29 #72292

    Just watched the third under 21 game in a row. Two players caught the eye for the wrong reasons. Spuds have got a cracker in chumplabar, COULDNT PUT A FOOT RIGHT IN ANY OF THE THREE GAMES! The other was Ings, he has been really poor, and he will go backwards at Liverpool. Austin looks a way better bet. Jenkinson looked great going forward but still made mistakes at crucial times also.

  9. mark from aylesbury

    Jun 24, 2015, 22:07 #72291

    John F -Was there as well and had to stand on the shelf as bought a ticket off a tout. I'll have a look at Youtube an see if there are any highlights. Seems amazing now and anything seemed possible. Still remember cocky Clive Allen thinking he'd won it at Highbury

  10. Badarse

    Jun 24, 2015, 21:54 #72290

    Ron/Tony/SKG. Believe it was the Daily Mirror. Cannot tell because I cut off the borders, but framed on my wall are two facsimiles, both written by Alec Johnson. Weds 24th May '89, 'You Don't Have A prayer Arsenal!'-Sat 27th May '89 by the same journo,' Miracle Men.' On Lennon's Walls and Bridges album is a written diatribe of how the surname Lennon has never distinguished itself in any way throughout Irish history, John has scrawled, 'Oh, yeah?' I have done the same between the two reports. Still tastes sweet. (first report was written after the capitulation of WHU losing 5-1 at Anfield the night before, meaning a two goal margin made matters that much more difficult). Here come the goosebumps.

  11. John F

    Jun 24, 2015, 20:02 #72289

    Hi Mark we had Derby and Wimbledon at home surely points in the bag.I was in the clockend for the Derby game not believing my eyes as we lost 2-1never realising how important that one goal would be.As you say Still a great night even on television but to be there I'm sure would have beaten my best ever match day experience which was the 1987 little woods 2nd leg at spurs the stadium announcer at half time still makes me smile.

  12. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jun 24, 2015, 19:07 #72288

    John F - remember that game well. Kids crying outside the ground . I think a poor guy collapsed and died of a heart attack . I was getting you are going to bottle wind ups every day at work. It really was amazing at Anfield. I cannot imagine what it was like to be there but somehow listening to good old Brian Moore felt just as good. I remember having a beer afterwards in Aylesbury literally having to convince myself it was true

  13. John F

    Jun 24, 2015, 18:49 #72287

    I went to the home game before against Wimbledon I remember the total dejection around me after that draw.I was getting fed up with my mate for still being optimistic about our chances as I still thought Liverpool were such a dominate force and just felt we had no chance.After years in the Wilderness following Arsenal up and down the country I began to think we would never get so close again.It is to my eternal regret that I never got a ticket for that game.

  14. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 24, 2015, 18:37 #72286

    PS : May 3rd 1971 comes close to Anfield - I was there for that one. The landlord of the Retreat public house, in Epping, promised a free pint if Arsenal won the double in 71, so May 8th I take my girlfriend (now my wife of 42 years) to the Retreat and we went on a celebration pub crawl with some great old Gooner mates. Wonderful night.

  15. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 24, 2015, 17:58 #72285

    Tony Evans, after the invincibles we all thought we would, and should have, but a manager away above his station at the time (and still is) with his pet project/projects thought it wasn't important to do that, or just wasn't up to it.

  16. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 24, 2015, 17:55 #72284

    Ron : to be fair I could n't see us winning by enough to win the league, unlike you, who was there, I had to listen to dear old David Pleat summarising the match. However his final piece, words to the effect of "well if Liverpool are to win the title it is only fitting that Arsenal should get a 1-0 result tonight. I don't think he said anything after MT flicked in the second. Astonishing night and you know the PL have been trying to emulate that evening since it's inception, not a chance, there will never be a night like that again in my lifetime.

  17. Ron

    Jun 24, 2015, 17:25 #72283

    PS Tony/SKG - Do you remember the press on Anfield day. The Daily star or the Sun? 'You havent got a chance' or words to that effect.

  18. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 24, 2015, 16:41 #72282

    I always thought Ray Kennedy was the missing piece for Liverpool - once they moved him to midfield and he was n't restricted by having his back to goal, as he spent most of his last days with us doing, he was a revelation. Liverpool personnel back then knew what a good footballer looked like and knew their best position, unlike poor Bertie Mee, who in his last years with Arsenal sold off all the silver and left us with a team that nearly went down.

  19. Ron

    Jun 24, 2015, 16:05 #72281

    Hi Tony - i know what you mean. Its worked the opposite way for me. I liked the Liverpool we knew back then as there was no question they were the best and they used to stuff Man Utd for fun. Maybe the best side me and you have ever seen? Its since our CL loss to them at Anfield back in 08 that ive grown to detest them. They still seem to think they have that almighty gravitas that had back then. I know its the TV s love for them and not really the Club as they are still today quite a 'community minded' Club , but it grates on me thats they still live on those long lost glories. Yes, i had the pleasure of being there that Friday night in 89. Nothing will ever beat that for us and im not of the view the PL has ever matched it either. Started the match in with Liverpool fans and 2 of us wrestled our way across to our fans, helped by the Liverpool fans. Sheer mayhem. Credit to them.Not sure it would happen today!

  20. Tony Evans

    Jun 24, 2015, 15:01 #72280

    Bard - It doesn't get any better than that does it - virtually last minute to win the title at Anfield. We can't complain too much really can we if you add winning the title twice at the Lane and also at Old Trafford. No wonder FJ is so jealous.

  21. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jun 24, 2015, 14:29 #72279

    Jameson - the experience of life I've had so far is that those who claim they are upper class are more often middle class or delusional. It's more about the rich and super rich these days. The seriously wealthy I deal with tend to wear there wealth lightly. A character who always blathered on about his wealth was the one who we had to turn down borrowing etc due to living beyond his means. I see you as some sort of Chelsea supporting Hyacinth Bucket character. You are a funny fellow.

  22. Bard

    Jun 24, 2015, 13:56 #72278

    Tony Evans; great post mate. My sentiments exactly. I can visualise that Thomas goal as if it was yesterday. MG I might incorporate your suggestion into my next email. if I sound hesitant its because I smell a job opportunity. Ivan, or 'Iv' as I call him, (his nickname for me by the way is Noahthetruth ) and I now have this extraordinary rapport and I dont want to lose his ear by asking for the Boss's head on a plate. I will keep you posted though.

  23. Tony Evans

    Jun 24, 2015, 13:36 #72277

    Ron - I hated Liverpool with a passion back in the late 70s and into the 80s, but now looking back I can only admire what a bl**dy good side they were. Winning the title at Anfield in 89 was a massive payback for all their years of dominance, and I can remember vividly my all consuming joy that we had at last put one over on them. I only wish that Arsenal had it in them to dominate in similar fashion. It's something we have not done since the 30s - we get to the top and then instead of consolidating we start sliding back down again!

  24. jjetplane

    Jun 24, 2015, 12:58 #72276

    Great posts R/K and I like what you say about the footballer's footballer. Bell and Platt were great players and another who always interested me was Martin Peters (the ghost). You are right with London now resembling NYC and the kids of lesser off folk are sorely missing out on a football experience but the game is so sterile and safe now a lot of them would rather a kickabout if they can find a space. Remember those days of anticipation when you stood in line to get through the north bank turnstiles. Now it is about as anticipatory as going through automatic doors to search for a new phone. Lovely stuff BARD and poor old Czech is gonna need more than an oystercard when they go away up north. Watch out for the bendy buses ....

  25. Charlie George Orwell

    Jun 24, 2015, 12:52 #72274

    Don’t know about supporting an individual football club is responsible for shaping ones character. I believe our personalities develop and are powerfully affected at an early age – before even we’re fully aware of the notion of what it really means to support a football club. I do though believe that particular organisations (including football clubs) attract those of certain characteristics and attitudes. I remember a couple of years ago being in a pub in Brighton just after the Seagulls played Chelsea in a pre-season friendly and one of the Chelsea faithful – who spoke in a loud Yorks/Lancs accent – was without doubt the most obnoxious man I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across.

  26. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 24, 2015, 12:49 #72273

    Bard, could you not have suggested reaching a compromise on the glitches like Cech's keeper coach and offer a take it or leave it deal where he brings his manager with him instead? we'd then certainly have a manager with balls and knows where they are.

  27. Ron

    Jun 24, 2015, 11:08 #72272

    R/K - Wouldnt they just! Yes, Platty was excellent for Villa. To have Italian Clubs head hunt a player as Italian football was when he joined Sampdoria speaks of his then class. The Liverpool middle of Case, Terry McD, Ray Kennedy and Souness was as close to perfect as a team could have in my view. Apart from maybe Peter Lorimer ive not seen a football hit harder than when Jimmy Case hammered it. What a shot he had and Souness was good in that dept too wasnt he. Awesome team, the Liverpool of 78 - 82 ish. It used to seem like we were playing a team with 15 players on the pitch i always used to think.

  28. radfordkennedy

    Jun 24, 2015, 10:43 #72271

    Hello Ron..although I think the term was coined sometime afterwards but Bell really was a box to box runner who made things happen,I think David platt in his pomp at the Villa was very similar,and the players you mentioned would cost a pretty penny todaY.

  29. Ron

    Jun 24, 2015, 9:53 #72270

    R/K - nice posting. Colin Bell was superb wasnt he. In many ways the first midfielder that we recognise as such types today and for me the very best, though closely ran by Souness, Robson and McDermott, all similar types weren't they.

  30. Bard

    Jun 24, 2015, 9:35 #72269

    I thought i should bring to the attention of all rightminded gooners an email i received yesterday from Ivan following my masterpiece on the need for a top keeper. He tells me that having read the post they are trying to sign one. Apparently we are close to singing Cech but there are glitches to be sorted out. We are standing firm on our refusal to pay for a monthly oystercard and Chelsea want Jack, the Ox and Wenger's balls in exchange. My new found status as the club adviser on transfers has left me giddy with excitement. So I wrote back saying we should make Maureen a take it or leave it deal. I suggested we should fund a weekly oystercard, Jack and the Ox are not for sale but if he can find Wenger's cojones we can discuss loaning them out. I am waiting for a reply with hopefully a job offer attached. Watch this space !!!

  31. radfordkennedy

    Jun 24, 2015, 9:08 #72268

    Morning all.. I don't know if being an Arsenal fan can mould you personally,but it certainly moulds you socially,insomuch as back in the day when it was so much easier to follow your team you would meet up with your pals when you were all home and decide to drive up to forest or coventry the next day pay on the gate etc,you all stood or sat together and a great laugh was had by all,and so it went on for many a happy year.It was also a time when young people from Highbury..Holloway..Hornsey etc could afford to get married and set up home in the town where they were born,nigh on impossible now,but it did ensure that when you had kids the next generation of local gooners would experience all you did,nowadays this by and large doesn't happen which in my opinion has had an impact on today's Arsenal crowd.as far as identifying with certain players goes I always had a certain liking for those who I considered grafters,consulate pros,with an edge to them when required,such as Simpson,Talbot,Williams,and I was never one of those hate everyone non Arsenal type of fan so I always had a sneaking regard for players like..Nish,Whitworth,bonds,Mills,case,wyle,Statham,brown,burns and coop and the one I thought who had it all Colin Bell,if those names somehow reflect on my own personality I'm not so sure.

  32. Made Up Stat

    Jun 24, 2015, 7:48 #72265

    Jamerson: How many Tesco value lagers did you sink with your fellow Chelsea supporters before your first post?

  33. jjetplane

    Jun 24, 2015, 0:05 #72263

    JAMERsON do believe I was born closer to Arsenal than you if you are a distant Barnsbury boy. The penny has still not dropped with you that in the last decade Arsenal went from being a distinctive club to just being another brand. The way you constantly whine on here I have to think you are more WOB than AkB. Upper class - you are the limit!

  34. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 23, 2015, 23:11 #72262

    Ron, good shout, this old has been manager has knocked the passion out of us years ago.

  35. Ron

    Jun 23, 2015, 23:06 #72261

    No 'beef' at all Jamie. I choose to see football and Arsenal for what it and what they have become. Its all our own perspectives and we re all only partially right of course, but thinking of Arsenal F C as we once could and did isnt for me. Still only one Club for me, but the tinted specs were dropped yrs back. Footie s just a product now, not a passion. Im lucky to get to see a few teams on my travels and enjoy it. Its good to compare.Some good Clubs are about still and who havent forgotten their fans like AFC have. Just my view. Left London in 83 by the way.

  36. John F

    Jun 23, 2015, 22:51 #72259

    Blimey west ham got a good deal.Cost of transforming Olympic stadium is 272million they pay only 15mil then 2 million a year rent who needs a oiliarch .With the location and lack of debt to pay they could be the ones to watch in the future

  37. John F

    Jun 23, 2015, 20:57 #72257

    Bard in the 90's I worked in a mental health unit and we had one patient who was convinced he was George Best.He was not very good at football but he did deliver a nice clock on my nose once perhaps he was really Paul Davis.I grew up as the only Arsenal fan on a council estate in Kingston all Chelsea and Man Utd fans and not a pond in sight.I used to use my dinner and sat job money to go to the games it is a shame that kids cannot do that now.I have always felt that too much of the ground is given over to season tickets.To improve the atmosphere reduce the amount of season tickets,just have one colour membership,have one section of the ground prioritised for the away scheme members and offer more discounts for the under 18s and free beer for balding over 50s.

  38. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 23, 2015, 20:40 #72256

    Jamerson, paddy? yes, shamrock, celtic? certainly not.

  39. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 23, 2015, 19:45 #72255

    Nice remarks Ron, unsubstantiated rubbish.

  40. Ron

    Jun 23, 2015, 15:35 #72249

    Bobby - so very true. Up until i stopped going the default attendance announcement was so, so often 60009. Used to laugh our nuts off when one of the guys would declare " hang on 60009 coming up" and then sure enough it did! Just knew that it was nearer 50000 on so many occasions.OK, theyd no doubt sold the seats via season tickets etc but to lie about actual bodies through turnstiles just to preserve the 'brand' is a bit pathetic. All part of the illusion there though. They make more money of course, but they've damaged Arsenals old long held 'class' that a few of the guys are talking about (above) for sure.The Club isnt so different from any others these days. The 'class' baton has passed to the Southamptons, West Bromwich Albions and Swanseas of the PL now. All 3 Clubs who carry themselves exceptionally well in my view.

  41. jjetplane

    Jun 23, 2015, 13:38 #72247

    CHRIS why not write a piece entitled 'diary of a slavish Emirate man.' You are the perfect fit. Happy days.

  42. Bard

    Jun 23, 2015, 13:06 #72245

    For many years I moved seamlessly between different Arsenal identities until i was properly diagnosed in 2004. For many years I saw and believed myself to me be Perry Groves and then it was Charlie Nicholas and moving swiftly on Gilberto. although I found learning Portuguese troubling. I have experienced many difficult times now we sign so many overseas players. Switching between Adebayor from Togo to Ashavin from Russia in one season nearly sent me over the edge linguistically speaking. My wife who has stood steadfastly by me during my long spells in the land of the white coats thinks I should find one and stick with it. Sensible advice but what happens when they retire or get transferred. so thanks Alex for highlighting a previously under reported psychiatric condition

  43. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 23, 2015, 13:02 #72244

    The spuds are exactly like that over here too, it must be just in them no matter where their from.

  44. Chris

    Jun 23, 2015, 13:00 #72243

    jjetplane - Think you've missed the boat (or your medication, difficult to tell which). Isn't the whole point that there isn't any actual 'authenticity' - football is what it is, and so is Arsenal. All this babbling on the verge of class war makes you the one who looks detached and an outsider to the modern world, I would say. As you were.

  45. Tony Evans

    Jun 23, 2015, 12:58 #72242

    Seven Kings - enjoyed reading your reply to this article. Arsenal were different back in those days (and I suppose still are) and to me always had that bit of class. I miss Highbury as there are so many memories that have been lost after the move to the bowl. I was one of two Arsenal fans in the late 60s, early 70s at school and have never once regretted becoming an Arsenal supporter - even during the immensely frustrating project youth / gung ho period which thankfully appears to be over now.

  46. Ron

    Jun 23, 2015, 11:51 #72240

    Long thought you lack a sense of humour Goonercolesy as well as knowing little about football, Arsenal or otherwise. Westie - A younger returning GG would be fine by me.

  47. jjetplane

    Jun 23, 2015, 11:20 #72238

    WESTIE and his hero Hornby. Says it all really. The whole point of Fever Pitch was that he was outside of The Arsenal looking in. Now he's probably sitting in a glass box pontificating on the 'beautiful game' while real Arsenal kids cycle past the Wok and stick up two fingers. This article typically has missed the boat and you are better off reading SKG's post which sums thins up with authenticity and not more Arsenespeak from a middle class abstract. My school was 90% Arsenal and me best mates were a spud and two chavs. It's patently obvious some people have no Highbury heritage or blood connection. The glorious 30's for props for the fans to fall back on. Speak for yourself!

  48. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 23, 2015, 9:19 #72236

    Westflower : I like you, was a lonely Gooner at school - all West Ham in Seven Kings, as I suppose it should have been. We did have a few of the glory hunting Spuds but the Totts had just won the double so it was expected and to be fair they did have a great side. I remember my first trips to Highbury it was like going to a meeting of my dad's Buffs, everything was done a certain way. We had a marching brass band were other clubs played records, or like West Ham, bless em, had a band that turned up in the corner of the ground, sat down in any position and would blast out bubbles just before the kick off. I watched football every week, went to West Ham and Tottenham, when Arsenal were away and Ilford to watch Alf Christmas playing at centre forward, wonderful wonderful days. However Arsenal were different, we had these beautiful "art deco" stands, a glass house were the coach and manager sat. We had Constable Alex Morgan who I believed released his own version of "my way", we also had this marching band whose leader would swing his mace left and right, hold out the mace in one hand to signify turning right or left and then to the delight of the kids he would toss the stick in the air and of course catch every time. However to sum up Arsenal, the drum major whilst swinging his mace accidently knocked his cap off but the band never broke step and trampled the hat into the turf. The band marched off leaving a tangled mess of leather and felt just about were Alan Skirton would always over run the ball. If Empire ever had a setting point it was Highbury in the sixties, because along came Liverpool, Man U in continental shorts and modern hairstyles. As you say Westflower, the Fairs Cup was our reformation, Frank was our leader and Charlie George our talisman.

  49. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 23, 2015, 9:03 #72235

    An enjoyable read. Seven Kings, come on, what did you expect from Ron, a glowing tribute? He was born negative.

  50. Bard

    Jun 23, 2015, 9:02 #72234

    Clearly a lot of effort went into that post Alex. To my mind the answer is maybe it did many years ago as Westie has pointed out but nowadays its the brand thats important. Trading on fan loyalty means extra revenue nothing more. I mean that as an observation not a criticism. Arsenal used to mean something although I suspect that was more to do with a perception than reality but now its just another club trying to rake in as much money it can.

  51. Wear Your Colours

    Jun 23, 2015, 8:55 #72233

    I don’t know whether it shapes your character but following a football team certainly can have a positive impact on your health. A recent study on the health of men found that men who followed a football team tended to live on average just over two-years longer than men who did not follow a football team. This impact was observed irrespective of what team was followed. COYG!

  52. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 23, 2015, 8:22 #72232

    Ron : Alex must have spent some time putting this piece together and then you come along and hole him below the water line with the first post! If I started becoming like Piers Morgan I would support the Spuds!

  53. Westlower

    Jun 23, 2015, 8:20 #72231

    I've no doubt that being the only Arsenal supporter at school gave me a mental toughness that the majority of the Man U/Spurs followers never had. You see I supported while they only followed. Probably a conceited view but it was one I believed in. There was little cheer in Arsenal's barren years of the late 50's & 60's save for the exciting signings of Eastham, Baker & McLintock. Arsenal's glorious history of the 30's & the early years after WW2 were props to fall back on when results on the pitch were desperate. The watershed came for all us frustrated Gooners with the Fairs Cup victory, swiftly followed by our first double. To win the league at the Lane made all the years of suffering so worthwhile. People who only know success, know little of life. Nick Hornby had a similar Arsenal experience, so well told in 'Fever Pitch' building up to the win at Anfield. All that pent up frustration gets released in a split second. I wonder how today's fans/media would react to our opening day loses in 1992 to Norwich 2-4 & 1993 Coventry 0-3? Both games were at home under George Grahams meticulous tutelage with our strongest defensive line ups - Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn, Bould (Linighan) & Adams. Explanations; Lack of preparation? Players & coach still hungover from their holidays? Today GG would be crucified, would he not?

  54. Ron

    Jun 23, 2015, 7:34 #72230

    Oh dear, worrying. Are we all destined to end up like Piers Morgan? Give me Chas or Dave every time.