Arsenal Circular 103

Summer Musings



Arsenal Circular 103

Joe Mercer – An early hero for some of our older readers


Ed’s Note – Graham Perry sends out his views on matters Arsenal to an email list and is keen to reach a wider audience. What follows is the text from his email sent out yesterday…

The General Election is over. Summer is in full swing. The cricket has been great and the possibility mounts that we might be able to challenge the Australians for the Ashes. Murray fever is upon us – we are getting ready for the Open - we still have the Grand Prix. It is a good time to be in the UK but don’t kid ourselves if you are Arsenal you pore over the back pages with even greater intensity. Yes you glance at a Joe Root big score and keep abreast of Tiger’s troubles and you wonder if Lewis Hamilton can see off the challenge from Nico Rosberg but in truth you scour the media for a mention of new signings. After all we are all Arsenal – the players may go on holiday but we are only thinking of the new season.

Can we mount a serious challenge?
Was the win over Villa at Wembley so convincing that we can dare to think the unthinkable?
Will we be able to make the additions to the squad that will force the detractors and the moaners to accept that we can do it?

Isn’t this going through your mind – aren’t you hitting the web for transfer talk, hovering between Radio 5 and Talk Sport for the announcement of a new signing, peeping at the headlines on the train or the bus as you pray for confirmation that we have signed Petr Cech or are close to getting the defensive midfielder to prevent Coquelin from over-use and possible injury or maybe one big striker. And haven’t you scrutinised the early season fixtures to work our which matches you need to view from a bar on the Continent instead of seat at the Emirates.

Nerds all of us?
No, The Arsenal thing goes deep – it starts often with a family relative who took you to your first game and then you recall your first goal and how you focused on your new hero – be it Ted Drake or Ronnie Rooke or Joe Mercer or Jack Kelsey or Derek Tapscott or George Eastham or George Armstrong or Big Raddy – the list is endless and for many it starts more recently than any of the players I have mentioned – maybe Charlie George or Michael Thomas or Denis Bergkamp, Ian Wright or simply David Rocastle or now Alexis Sanchez.

We all have favourite players, best remembered goals and most exciting victories – we all have our Anderlechts.

Then there is the revival thing – the “coming good” after the “being also-rans”. Wherever you are in the world and you meet up with a fellow supporter the debate begins. Has Wenger done well to see us through the transition or has he under-achieved?
I remember the three barren years after Giggs’s semi-final goal in 1999. That was under-achievement – something went wrong when we had the wonderful array of talent.
We recovered and became the Invincibles and I close my eyes and see Yakubu bearing down on Lehmann at Portsmouth in the relentless rain right at the end that 2003-04 season sure to score and prevent us from being unbeaten. He scuffed his shot but I am sure it had something to do with Jens’ great presence between the posts.

This column wants Wenger to succeed. What he has done in terms of making the transition to the Emirates and providing the secure foundations for future purchases is really not appreciated.
Glass half empty because we did not win between 2006 and 2014 or glass half full because we stayed in Europe, were always in the top four and are now admired by all genuine football lovers for being the real thing.
I want Arsene to succeed because I want Piers Morgan to fail and I want Wenger to be accorded the respect he deserves. Identify yourselves if you disgracefully sang at Wenger “You don’t know what you are doing”.

For the future I am looking for a seamless transition from Wenger to Guardiola but that is for the future – what excites us is the coming together, the all round improvement, the challenge of Sanchez, the emergence of Coquelin, the revival of Ozil and his partnership with Cazorla and the return to form of Ramsey. The ingredients are there – we can see it in every position – we are close. Please let us have a good start – that will set us fair for a real challenge.

As you while away the summer indulge yourself and let me know your favourite Arsenal moment – what really got to you – what really turned you from a follower to a fan. And in the meantime let’s hope that Cech signs, that we get the defensive midfielder and an addition up front though I still believe that Akpom has something special.

Keep in touch – it is all simmering below the surface.
Roll on 8 August or whenever Sky dictate when we play West Ham.
Don’t underestimate Bilic – didn’t he almost win with Besiktas in August 2014? Somehow Ba failed to reach the header in the last minutes. Phew...


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118
comments

  1. jjetplane

    Jul 01, 2015, 18:49 #72450

    Good old Simone de Beauvoir. Bobby Pires loves her!

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 01, 2015, 17:45 #72448

    jj, and the rest, what clan are you all? clan Mc Clouds? does this mean we're all going to have to wear kilts and support Scotland? the thought of it.

  3. Badarse

    Jul 01, 2015, 17:42 #72447

    It works! Damned difficult to blow your nose with when it's wet though.

  4. jjetplane

    Jul 01, 2015, 17:29 #72445

    Red Snapper anyone! Nice cold hankie on the head old bean does wonders! Come on England Women!

  5. Exeter Gunner

    Jul 01, 2015, 13:11 #72438

    Personally, I don't think the 'point' of this forum is continuous, overbearing tickings off and 'corrections' for those who don't share a particular poster's outlook. How patronising and annoying it is to be offered 'life lessons' virtually every other comment. I'd prefer a bit of amusing sniping.

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 01, 2015, 13:07 #72437

    Badarse, I have missed no point at all, and the fact you ask the question you have proves it, but it comes as no surprise whatsoever that you ask it.

  7. Badarse

    Jul 01, 2015, 12:11 #72434

    jjetplane, happy? My life can be anything but-you have no idea of anything going on in my life. New Labour? Despise them and especially those who may link me with them. You are such a pseudo individual. Get your line and go fishing, and smoke to chill. Stop wasting time trying to be spiteful, you've mastered that skill, try something new. Life could be worse-you could get a puncture. Hilarious nonsense! As for attacking I think you have lost the plot-too clever for your own good, methinks. It's the danger of ego. The point of this forum is to contest if in disagreement, and put forward an opposite view-without character assassination. Try it sometime, you may feel better for the exercise. That's something you fail on and always have. You think an alternative view is something to take down by belittling and being a snipe. It is what you are known for. You don't need spite, just a sensible view, but if you feel emasculated by my power in nullifying you or anyone you perceive to be in your tribe try not to attack-make a fish pizza. You just look rather silly, and a very old man living in yesterday. Now back to your goldfish bowl with you, or give us a dirge on the wok, or how you didn't rate the Invincibles.

  8. jjetplane

    Jul 01, 2015, 11:54 #72433

    And if you are really such a happy little soul why are you only on here to attack in your ultra-repetitive manner any poster who is not on your quazi new Labour carpet. Love your posts because they are the funniest on here if you know what I mean. Nice one MG. We're a clan now and we await another immature implosion. Loving the proper World Cup which does put most of Arsene FC in perspective ..... As you were.

  9. Badarse

    Jul 01, 2015, 6:06 #72426

    No mag, once more you miss the point. It is valid to have a low estimate of a manager, player, person-even inanimate objects like buildings, types of games, TV shows and weather. It is the one tune played on that penny whistle which is confusing. We get you don't like AW and a few other things, including some players. That is fine, but why do you and others in your clan need to keep regurgitating the same stuff? We are one of the best clubs in the world, have some of the most skilful of players, usually play delightfully pleasing and artistic football. Have a superbly modern stadium, a history and our traditions are virtually unequalled, and in an ever-disappointing world a group of fans as good as any, and better than most-despite prejudiced claims to the contrary. It's summer, the sun is shining, AFC are doing their transfer business early, one new body in, possibly more to follow. Enjoy, chum. Now start putting the gnomes back in the garden, the BBQ is looming large on the horizon.

  10. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 30, 2015, 22:22 #72421

    Badarse, annoying? not at all, it just proves the chav fans are as big as idiots as our own, gripping and bellyaching at players who leave to try and better themselves and to win things and even for more money, or in cech's case first team football (which was one of the points I was making)now bellyaching and gripping at and about a past it manager and his regime and some of the decisions he has made in the past (leading to humiliations and embarrassments which will never be forgotten) and still does, and no doubt will continue to do so, is quite legitimate as far as i'm concerned, not you as it seems to be the point your trying to make, no you would rather just forget them and sweep them under the carpet and keep doing so and move on and expect others to do the same and when they don't that for you becomes very annoying

  11. John F

    Jun 30, 2015, 20:47 #72419

    I remember Frank Stapleton getting dogs abuse when he moved to Man Utd.If twitter and facebook was about then I am sure he would of had all the rubbish that Cech is getting now.The only difference is fans only had two or three occasion s that they could express their admiration and undying love for Frankie.

  12. Ron

    Jun 30, 2015, 19:07 #72410

    Good point re the personality angle on Chesny. Out of all positions the personality facet of a keeper is perhaps the main ingredient to determine his performance. Not that we know the real Chez but the lad doesn't seem to be maturing? Maybe Cech can assist in that dept for him. MG - If what you say is right about those daft people, it mirrors many of the modern fans. Losing a decent player to a rival or heaven forbid, losing a game to a rival seems tantamount to being a mortal blow to their virilty and size of their manhood these days the way many react! Its endemic mainly amongst the fans of the big 5 though i think. I mean Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal in particular, Liverpool and City less so. I cd be wrong but this view is based on my observations of them at matches and talking to them on my travels. Very sad, but its symptomatic the modern game in the self proclaimed 'best league in the World'

  13. Badarse

    Jun 30, 2015, 18:06 #72409

    mag, those inanities reflect the narrow and blinkered views of part of our society, so does griping, constantly belly-aching and being negative about everything. Annoying isn't it?

  14. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 30, 2015, 17:45 #72408

    jj, your right chelski and Maureen do think Cech's best days are behind him and to be honest they probably are, and Maureen was only playing hardball to piss wenger off although he's succeeded on many an occasion he hasn't this time, but as Bard has said he's still miles better than we have, or had for years, and that's a sad indictment on this manager and as has been said many times before a sack able offence on it's own, but as I've said myself we should get a couple of good years out of him, maybe even end up our keeper coach. Yes the chavs are in melt down, and we all think it's hilarious one even wishing he'd died after getting his head injury and another saying he's going to bring his sniper rifle to the bridge when he returns, now maybe our own fans realise how stupid they looked and what idiots they were over RVP, Cesc, etc, etc,

  15. Badarse

    Jun 30, 2015, 17:21 #72407

    Well surprise, surprise that I don't share those views on our other two keepers. Having a 'gobby' Dad, and being a smoker doesn't make for a chain smoker-but so what? Flimsy sideswipes. Ospina for me is a 7-8 out of ten keeper, and will always do a job for us, so am happy with him as back up. Don't think his game will develop though. In other words he is the finished article. Wojek has bags of potential, but his personality has outstripped his development. Get that back on track and the 7-8 out of ten that I believe him to be could easily improve by a point or more. Just POVs, and a little sideswipe here and there, doesn't carry the day though chaps. Remember what I have said regarding majorities?

  16. Ron

    Jun 30, 2015, 16:45 #72406

    You've called that right Tony. Ospina is worth better than being back up status. He did pretty well when asked to step in last Season and has done nothing to really deserve a demotion to No 2. Chezney isnt good enough and i suspect he knows it deep down. Keepers do. The defenders look far more at ease with themselves with Ospina behind them and its not hard to detect.

  17. Tony Evans

    Jun 30, 2015, 15:47 #72405

    ArseneKnewBest - agree entirely. I suspect Ospina will not take kindly at demotion to number 2 and Wenger may not have much choice in the matter. Would not trust OGL to keep the right one anyway!

  18. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 30, 2015, 15:28 #72404

    Apropos of recent discussions on here abut gks, does anyone share my disquiet about potentially jettisoning Ospina instead of Ches? The former inspires much more confidence than the latter in my opinion. Imagine we're on the verge of a significant trophy next year and Cech gets injured: would you prefer the chain-smoking wunderkind with a gobby dad, or the man who performed solidly against Argentina the other night (and who brought added stability last season when we needed it)? I think it would be a big mistake to countenance selling Ospina instead of Ches (I wonder which one is worth more...)

  19. Tony Evans

    Jun 30, 2015, 14:15 #72403

    Ron / Bard - Let's hope that Cech is a shouter in the mould of Schmiecal and bosses his back four. As you say, Ron, he hasn't had to do much of that at Chelsea, and how he adapts to our lot bombing forward and switching off at will is crucial. Hopefully his signing will build on the improving defensive game we are now slowly developing, and if a decent holding player (like Carvalho) is be bought in as well, to compliment Coquelin, we could be in business. Probably won't happen as Wenger always leaves us short, and we will go into next season an injury away from Flam or Arteta as DM.

  20. Ron

    Jun 30, 2015, 14:04 #72402

    Bard - sadly thats typical football fans isnt it. he gives them his best career years, they abuse him when he leaves the Club in a far better state than when he joined them. One of the primary reasons ive dropped out of football is the modern fans. They hate anybody that leaves, detest all other Clubs, detest and wont acknowledge players abilities unless they play for 'their' Club, cant take a loss or a thrashing, cant accept weaknesses and inadequacies in their teams and Clubs and are generally odious in their attitudes to other Clubs generally.

  21. Bard

    Jun 30, 2015, 13:21 #72401

    Tony Evans/ Ron; whether he's as good as he was is a valid question but yes he's miles ahead of anyone we've had since Lehmann. Its a good point Ron about how he will look behind a dodgy defence especially if Kos goes to Real Madrid. The bonus is how pissed off Maureen and the fans are. Twitter has gone mental with abuse from deranged Chavs.

  22. Ron

    Jun 30, 2015, 12:46 #72400

    Cech is potentially a great signing. Hes had 10 yrs behind the leagues best defence though. Can he play to the same level behind central defenders who will leave him exposed at best and who go awol at worst. Secondly, he ll have full backs who go on upfield soiree's and no midfielders who know how to fill in for the said FBs (not quite as bad since Monreal has become the No 1 left back admittedly) Thats PC s test and why the signing has question marks against it. Nothing against PC. Hes a likeable keeper. Any goalkeeper playing behind PM and LK faces a culture shock that will be uncomfortable at times. Chelsea know hes past his best by some distance. If he wasnt, he d still be there and still be their No 1. 10 Mill is a good price for him and not too bad a price for AFC. Good luck though big Pete and welcome.

  23. Tony Evans

    Jun 30, 2015, 12:23 #72399

    Cech may be past his best (maybe not) but he is a damn sight better than we have had for the last umpteen years, so good news relatively early in the transfer window for a change. Man U are welcome to Schneiderlin (if they get him), I reckon Carvalho is a better bet - just get on with it Wenger!

  24. jjetplane

    Jun 30, 2015, 11:30 #72398

    Ospina looking like De Gea at the Copa handing Messi a rare pissed off look 'cause he cannot get past Him. Certainly up in my estimation and perhaps like a number of players, he is more expressive away from the softball confines of Emirates fuseball. Now what of Czech writing to Chelski to share the love with big praise for Obram... and none for JM who never signed Czech originally. Politics, politics but me thinks also that Chelski do not believe he is the same goalie and everyone will be watching to see what he does faced with a powerful striker bearing down on him. I like the guy and always have so here's hoping. Wonder what Wenger made of Ospina last week. Perhaps it is he who should stay and Jack's smoking pal should get a new club. I am sure Fenebache would have him instead.

  25. Bard

    Jun 30, 2015, 7:12 #72397

    Excellent signing. Without blowing my own trumpet too much I am amazed that the Arsenal top brass have been so influenced by my articles on here ( see Wenger's blind spot). Keep an eye out for my next piece, Retirement deals for the Elderly, does Wenger need to cash in or out ?

  26. Badarse

    Jun 29, 2015, 22:04 #72396

    Well mag, that was at least a step in the right direction, not so much a Fred Astaire step, more a River dance type skipping step. Still it will do for me, as will Cech. You have touched on something in your post though. When you try to calculate the importance of any one individual in a group, or in this case our team/squad, the assessment of the influence one person can introduce is always extremely vague. Yet I think this influence will be a key factor in the purchase of Cech-by his involvement with the players, particularly the other two keepers. I am intrigued and excited by the prospects, so welcome Petr-and thank you mag.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 29, 2015, 21:32 #72395

    Badarse, even though it was put on a plate for OGL it wouldn't have surprised me and others if he'd turned it down or cocked it up, but for the record I think it's a good signing and he'll do well for us, and should instil some confidence in the defence and the team and of course ourselves although not long term, but credit where it's due, but even so still after nearly ten years now the keeper situation still hasn't been properly addressed, i haven't heard if he has brought his own coach with him lets hope so because if or when peyton gets his hands on him it'll not have made a bit of difference.

  28. Simon

    Jun 29, 2015, 21:25 #72394

    Havent been as happy about a signing since Sol Campbell in 2001.Now complete the job Wenger and sign a DM and a striker

  29. Badarse

    Jun 29, 2015, 19:18 #72393

    Liked the phone box quip mag, but try, just try, to say something positive about Petr Cech joining Arsenal-you know, that team down the road. Come on now, I can see you trying, true the face you are pulling makes you look as if you are suffering from constipation, but try, try, you're going red, spluttering a bit, now blowing bubbles. You can do it I am sure. Just put 'old' in front of his name, that might help.

  30. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 29, 2015, 18:55 #72392

    Surprised OGL isn't getting credit (and taking it)for the England ladies success, there's bound to be some way he has been a help and influential in their success so far, maybe his followers are waiting for the girls to win it before giving him credit for it.

  31. Badarse

    Jun 29, 2015, 18:50 #72391

    Hello Ron, just got home. Sorry if my comment offended, it was a throw-away after a brief exchange we had whereby you described Putin in cuddly terms as a big Russian bear. ArseneKB joined and linked all three dictators, so I baled out. You are quite right that it isn't the place to discuss these matters, but sometimes things are said to back up a point or just mentioned casually, rebutted, and we are off! I certainly wouldn't want to bracket you with another fella, so once more apologies for the insensitive post. Now as for ArseneKB...@Bard, you've kind of got me about right, though I usually walk away with a form of ennui, which from behind looks like a pronounced limp. Actually westlower walks in a similar fashion until Julesd decides to carry his wallet-and she isn't his slave!

  32. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 29, 2015, 17:39 #72390

    At least they'll not have to make phone boxes bigger any time soon

  33. Torbay gooner

    Jun 29, 2015, 14:25 #72389

    Jamerson, I get that your posts are supposed to be designed for comedic effect, however unfortunately your usage of the term h-c just makes you look a moron. You need to go back to the basics and perhaps stick with describing your brother Pete's antics.

  34. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jun 29, 2015, 12:23 #72388

    Jameson - it's not a case of saying to you that you can't say this expression or use a term. If we did you would simply cry freedom of expression. The question is why. Why are you using terms to differentiate like "negro" this is not 1960's Alabama. Half caste is deemed offensive but so is attributing behaviours to class in the UK. Everyone is either a fore lock tugging oik, chav or an odd individual fits your perceived status such as your brother who appears to commit ABH with impunity. There are probably sites where very counter cultural deep consertives can ensemble to discuss their upset at modern culture. If you bring all your baggage onto this site you will simply get constant reminders of your incapacity to fit within modern life. If I were you I would stick to the football.

  35. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 29, 2015, 11:03 #72387

    Jamerson : judging by your last post I think these people you say are working for you are probably your carers. Don't know what world you live in but I'm glad it's not mine. Not funny at all!ZUtu

  36. Bard

    Jun 29, 2015, 10:16 #72386

    Jamerson mate I agree with AKB, youve crossed a line, Im sure it was meant to be funny but not in this day and age it isnt. AKB Baddie will be off for another sabbatical any time soon. The posts get longer and longer and more obscure before they just implode and he goes missing for a month or so.

  37. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 29, 2015, 8:51 #72385

    OK - here's a censored version of my earlier response to Jamie son's words of wisdom. I'm sure that many women and people of colour who read this site will not be altogether happy with what you have written. Indeed, your message is both sexist and racist and you should be ashamed of yourself, even though I know you probably think it's funny. Maybe you need some time on the sidelines to work out why you need to be so offensive.

  38. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 29, 2015, 8:26 #72384

    Badarsio - and from my point of view, it would help immensely if you could admit that you are plain wrong sometimes, and that you are often prone to verbiage, prolix and bloviation. Alternatively, you could always take one of your traditional, erm, holidays from this site.

  39. Ron

    Jun 28, 2015, 23:22 #72383

    Evening guys - an urgent need arises for me to put aside footie exchanges clearly. Badarse - take note in that you certainly never saw an exchange of mine offering the absurdity you've just dreamed up i.e Lenin, Stalin and Putin bring all cut from the same cloth' etc. Not at all wishing to disclose personal items on here save other than to say that my work wouldn't have endured for 26 years had i have subscribed to that brand of bullshine. Either yr memory is failing you or your back reading of posts is seriously flawed. To be honest i cant recall any exchange with Arsene knows best ever and certainly not recently. Do yself a favour and make yr own points by all means but dont use other peoples views and ideas to shore up yr own, unless you know what youre speaking of. Im happy to explain to anybody the differences in shade between the three you speak off, but it wont be on a footie message board!

  40. Alsace

    Jun 28, 2015, 22:45 #72382

    The women have what our young men lack - guts and determination, and the application of what they have been taught.Two remaining members of the Axis powers stand in their way on the path to the World Cup. I really hope they win it, mostly because it will make our moronic and neanderthal blazer wearing male football establishment look like inadequate idiots, which is exactly what they are.

  41. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 28, 2015, 16:24 #72381

    Jamerson, 76358, correction N,Ireland, there is a difference.

  42. Badarse

    Jun 28, 2015, 13:29 #72380

    There is a stirring in the goldfish bowl.

  43. jjetplane

    Jun 28, 2015, 13:20 #72379

    Just watched England Women highlights and must say they are a more masculine option than Arsenal have been over the last decade. Direct, smart football with the goal in mind. Have to laugh how JAMERSON loves the effeminate side passing style of Arsene Disunited and his Lust for Olivia Giroud. West Ham awaits his theatrics. Something very familiar happening on this site again. What could it be? Most amusing.

  44. Rob

    Jun 28, 2015, 13:11 #72378

    Yes ! Nice piece and I can see where you are coming from. But for the record I have frequently thought Wenger did not know what he was doing and am quite happy to point this out. For example ;- when we were in the process of losing Fabregas and Nasri, our main negotiator on transfers - post Dein and that's another book in itself ! - Dick Law, was out in Costa Rica trying to sign someone who still hasn't been seen at Emirates playing for us. Is that an example of the Club ' knowing what it was doing ' ? So spare me/us the 'wise after the event' approach. On a lighter note it isn't always the headline grabbing stars that stick in the mind. My first recollection of Arsenal - or one of them - was hearing the North Bank sing the praises of Jim Furnell to the tune of The Mighty Quinn. Now there's a thought.

  45. Badarse

    Jun 28, 2015, 11:38 #72377

    ArseneKB, I have long since been accused of flogging a dead horse on many topics and in many situations-you are one of those situations I am afraid. Once more you miss the point-it's that sharp bit at the end, by the way. Never use a real or imagined majority to strengthen an already weak argument, it just weakens it more. Time to bale!

  46. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 28, 2015, 10:15 #72376

    Badarsio - glad to see that the drugs have partially worn off. I like 'em poached if you're asking mate, and it's good to know that you and I share an irrepressibly upbeat demeanour. I accuse you, however, of some typically badarsian revisionism about Man Utd. You got caught so take it on one of your chins...I share a dislike of Manure with many people on the site (and more widely) so you might be isolated on that too.

  47. Badarse

    Jun 28, 2015, 9:43 #72375

    Good morning ArseneKBest. I think I found myself in a cul de sac with you recently over the way words evolve and change their meaning, you didn't get it, so I walked. You agreed with Ron recently that Lenin, Stalin and Putin were all the same-another reason to bale on the strap line. Now you come out with drivel regarding Man U. I believe you are old enough to have experienced different eras, and the zeitgeist of the times. Let me try to explain. In 1958 Man U got enormous sympathy for the air crash-rightly so. In '63 I went to Wembley to see our ex player David Herd help them beat Leicester-with McLintock losing and yet to arrive. I was a lucky lad. I also saw them win the European Cup at Wembley in '68, still lucky! Times change and that club grew into an ogre. Unfair support, refereeing leniency, pseudo support, and so on. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and it saddens me that people are so gullible to follow in a mindless fashion, but they do. I reject what they represent, but you cannot hate and loathe an inanimate object, like a sport, a football club, or a Mars bar. It wasn't a love-in with SKG, we travelled back in time for a short while and metaphorically stood together on the terraces. I never had the privilege to do that with him in real life. Read some of the posts more clearly, you will see I too said it's a dangerous terrain in comparing eras, and periods of football, and other things. Work on this, 'What about Lloyd George, Nye Bevan, Clem Attlee?' Time to bale? Oh, one more thing, 'How do you like your eggs in the morning? I like mine with a smile!' Singalong!

  48. John F

    Jun 28, 2015, 0:20 #72374

    Henry was a fantastic player for Arsenal up there with one of the greats but what blots his copybook was his sulkaway season where he whinged and moaned at his teammate's because he felt he wasn't getting the right service.His handball goal that knocked Ireland out of the world cup was out of order he could have easily shown some sportsmanship like Robbie Folwer did against us and tell the Ref.It showed the character of the man.

  49. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 27, 2015, 23:51 #72373

    I couldn't resist...Jamie son - A spurs fan AND he works for you. Wow - talk about indefatigability...

  50. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 27, 2015, 22:58 #72372

    Badarsio - Are you on medication this evening (or furniture polish perhaps?). You sound like a cross between Ron "jumpers for goalposts" Manager (check the Fast Show, younger readers if you can be arsed...) and the late great Sid Waddell who described Phil Taylor (possibly rightly) as one of the greatest athletes of the twentieth century. You are living proof that you can/can make it up!

  51. goonercolesyboy

    Jun 27, 2015, 22:53 #72371

    Henry was brilliant and definitely world class, along with Dennis, Patrick and Bobby Pires. The team complimented each other and brought out that extra that so often made the difference. But that can be said of many Arsenal teams in the different eras. Cech is a great signing, why listen to what the Sun says? Bit like Durham on talksport, ultimate wind up merchant.

  52. Badarse

    Jun 27, 2015, 22:47 #72370

    SKG if I had to concede a point, if that's what I would be doing, I would run with you on that one. The mid-sixties through to the mid-seventies were arguably the golden decade. A period when every first division team had a striker of International class, many clubs had two. A keeper of that same standard. Men all over the show with bullet shots. Little schemers, as inside forwards flitting over the pitch-goliaths at centre half, men who could run all day like Colin Bell and our own Geordie. Personalities bigger than the giants who owned them, and those with hearts bigger than footballs. Leaders aplenty. Indeed we were very fortunate, and it's imperative that we keep extolling those virtues, so the young know there is something better to aspire to. That something intrinsic is missing. Yet there is still something worthy in what is today's football. That too must be valued, with it's power and athleticism, speed of both thought and movement. Invariably, as we constantly find ourselves saying, today it's just a different game.

  53. Arseneknewbest

    Jun 27, 2015, 22:42 #72369

    SKG and Badarsio - am following your Manure love-in with lukewarm interest (I loathe them personally). It must be silly season. That's some claim about 60s football I have to say. More accurate to say Franny Jeffers was no Denis Law I reckon. TH, for me, transcends any 60s footballer, just because the game has significantly moved on, as have pitches, equipment etc. For every show reel containing said Charlton brother banging one in from 40 yards, many more rolled meekly wide or barely reached the six yard box. I know you can only make judgements on what was happening in any given era but the rose tinted spectacles possibly need a polish ladz...

  54. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 27, 2015, 22:11 #72368

    Badarse : you make your point very well - remember that game when Willow took the ball off Best, with a Trautmanesque head long dive. Only comment I'd make would be, I think Best was past his best when Bob robbed him, still a great save though. Wonderful athlete that TH was and an Arsenal great, he was not a Denis Law. I just think the quality of the footballers in the sixties was the best I have seen in the fifty five years I have followed and supported Arsenal, unfortunately not enough of them played for the Gunners.

  55. Badarse

    Jun 27, 2015, 20:23 #72367

    I want to just add a few snippets. SKG I rate amongst the best on this website, perhaps he is the best. However his opinion, despite being super-charged is still just that, an opinion. Personally I disagree with him regarding Titi. To me he was simply amazing, and the 'big game' argument doesn't really work for me. Interesting observations all the same. PV4 and Bergy I think were the best ever in their respective positions-truly great! Somebody recently referred to another player as the 'ghost', Johnny White was the only 'ghost'-and the top man in that 'Double' outfit-so similar to George Eastham in skill level. Bobby Charlton was always sneaking off for a ciggy, but a real great-with one of the hardest ever shots-accurate too. Best blessed with remarkable talent, skill, artistry whatever label you hang on it, but was always likely to be operating on a personal level. Like the time he wandered over to the tunnel side of the pitch near the end of a match because he had a date that evening. One on one against Willow at Highbury, attacking the Clock End, and it was taken off his feet with a head first smothering tackle by our Bob. So nothing is ever certain. Jimmy Greaves was special of course, but sometimes less so-he liked a drink. I know this is something Bard will like to get his teeth into-that old fang joke again-but comparing is difficult. Joe Baker was an idol of mine but he didn't move as fast as Henry, so one on one could he have been caught? Who knows. Joe's medal haul would have undoubtedly been better with another club, but so too would Shearer's. It can become a right old tangle when discussing the past and today, or any era with another.

  56. Bard

    Jun 27, 2015, 18:38 #72366

    Jamerson; mate what are you on? Best overrated ? You must be joking. He's one of the best players I have ever had the pleasure of watching. Im with SKG on TH, brilliant against average opposition and a scorer of fantastic goals but he never really performed on the biggest stage. a top player but not a great in my book. Difficult to measure Joe baker because the Arsenal of those days werent an outstanding side.

  57. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 27, 2015, 18:36 #72365

    Jamerson : I doubt you would have caught Bobby Charlton chain smoking or lager swilling, he was much better than that. You seem to think just because football is faster it therefore must be better, great players are great players in the era you judge them, nothing else. As for Joe Baker, if I could have chosen one Arsenal player, at his peak, in a one on one with Barca's keeper in 2006 it would be Joe - 2- 0 CL trophy in the cupboard. Had Joe gone back to his home town and joined Everton or Liverpool I think he would have become border line world class, providing he upped his work rate bit, because under Harry Catterick or Bill Shankley, the work ethic was paramount. Joe was unlucky at Arsenal because he joined a club with such a porous and second rate defence. At Liverpool or Everton he would have won the trophies that his goal scoring prowess deserved.

  58. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 27, 2015, 13:40 #72363

    Ron, an excellent one from Mark Irwin in the Sun yesterday also, well worth a read telling us if we think Cech being signed is the missing piece of the jigsaw and when it happens we're up and running we have another thought coming, but some of us knew/know that already.

  59. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 27, 2015, 13:04 #72361

    Jamerson : You clearly never saw John White play! Only having eyes for your own team (who ever you support)means you miss so much in every game you watch. I think TH was a very good player but not in Dennis or Paddy's league. I always thought TH went into hiding a bit in the really big games - through on goal in the CL final for example. Henry scored some great goals and I loved him in an Arsenal shirt but that does n't make him IMO world class. Had Best or Greaves been through on goal, one on one in a CL final I think they both would have both found the net. Check Man U v Benfica 1968. Anyway Mr J, it is all about opinion and just because I see it one way and you see it another does make either of us right or wrong.

  60. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 26, 2015, 19:23 #72358

    Thanks for the shout Ron : Just read the bones of Alan Shearer's column on the ITV news website, I hope the latest under 21 failure might do the trick. Thing is why don't all clubs agree a salary structure for all players up to the age of 23 or 25, it would be a start. I remember the hype surrounding Chambers when he arrived, he rarely gets a start, I know injury is a problem but the lad needs to go and play centre half for someone like Colchester or Coventry for a season and then we can reassess him. As Shearer say that crucial development stage has been hi jacked by agents and desperate clubs needing a certain number of home grown players.

  61. Ron

    Jun 26, 2015, 17:29 #72357

    SKG - i read Alan Shearers column in the Sun today on the train. He makes the points youve made about the PL. Hes dead on correct as i see things too. Worth a look.

  62. Badarse

    Jun 26, 2015, 16:10 #72356

    I am constantly and consistently amazed by the lack of purchase people have regarding any situation presented. The transfer market, it's mode for buying and selling, and the natural constraints they bring, is the only thing posters have to deal with on this site-there are other issues but why muddy the water? Deal with one thing at a time. Transfers, in and out. Simples! The clarity of the necessary considerations presented by westlower are there for all to see. It's spelt out, itemised, just for you. No need to worry or get in a lather, just read and digest. We are lucky to have such posters. I am happy to receive Cech; hope Sir Chesney stays rather than David Ospina-a personal choice. CH? Nope! DM? Not if Flamini and Arteta stay. Striker? Not really, as Theo and Danny will be utilised. So I expect no one, but still wait with interest. I may be pleasantly surprised. Where will it leave us? An imponderable. My assessed/guessed answer, runner-up to Chelsea. MC ahead of MU, who will be just nipping in front of Liverpool, and Totteringham following up the rear-think they quite like that! My top 6, and their order. Only someone like westlower would put ten bob on that, and then because he would be only backing my track record, not the wisdom. FA Cup? How nice to think we could set a record by retaining it yet again, but this season I have an itch regarding the League Cup. Good old Arsenal.

  63. Westlower

    Jun 26, 2015, 15:07 #72355

    @Maguiresbridge, Who bought Alexis Sanchez last year + Debuchy, Gabriel, Ospina, Welbeck & Chambers? Mesut Ozil the year before & Petr Cech already in the bag this year? A space has to be created before a new player can be brought in. If you buy before you sell the club is left in a vulnerable position in getting the market value for any departing player. Only the mega rich & the desperate buy before they sell. Liverpool are in the fortunate position of spending the Raheem Sterling money safe in the knowledge that Man City will cough up. Spurs were in a similar position with the Gareth Bale money but true to form bought anyone & everyone on the market & went further backwards.

  64. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 26, 2015, 13:55 #72353

    D D : What you say about Walcott is a small part of what has gone wrong with English football. The press, radio & tv talk about star players as if anyone who plays football in the PL is a star. When I first started watching football in the early sixties your star players were Law, Best, Charlton Bobby Moore, Jimmy Greaves, perhaps Jim Baxter and definitely John White. Some of you can add others but that did not mean that there were not dozens of other quality players in the old first division. A star now is anyone who plays in the PL - which is a poor standard compared to other leagues around the world. In the last 15 years I have seen probably 6 or seven real stars. Vieira, of course Dennis, not sure if TH makes that bracket, Ronaldo, Scholes possibly, perhaps Gerrard, but Aguero & Suarez most definitely. The agents want these words lavished on their property as we enter dafter and dafter transfer fees but the thing with Walcott is, he is good on television, so I suppose that makes him a star!

  65. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 26, 2015, 13:37 #72352

    Peter Wain, as I've already said we've all been here before, yet some keep thinking it will be different this time, just as they did last season and the one before that and the one before that, hitting the web for transfer talk, poring over the back pages with intensity, hovering between radio stations for an announcement on the next top top qualitee player with hooves (they'd be better off hoovering) you have to laugh. You couldn't make it up.

  66. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 26, 2015, 13:06 #72351

    Desmond Dekker, dead right about wally, and when he's talking a good game (and that's often) England or being fit for England always gets a mention, you'd think that it mattered either way.

  67. Alsace

    Jun 26, 2015, 10:08 #72350

    Interesting what Jamerson says about the Under 21's. Have any of you seen the ladies play? They are moving the ball and attacking with real incision and aggression. We all know from school that the girls work harder and therfore do better. Of course the quality of the player matters, but turning up and wanting it more goes a long way as well. I agree that Hodgson knows what he is doing. The question is are our players or the majority of them, just too thick to understand a plan, even if there is one? I don't think so. Great coaches get their message across.

  68. Westlower

    Jun 26, 2015, 9:53 #72349

    @Peter Wain, As I alluded to yesterday it's not as simple as it would appear to cope with the long term injury problems you are predicting will happen in September. Every club has to declare it's 25 man squad at the end of the transfer window. 3 of the squad are GK's, that leaves 22 players + unlimited number of players born after 1/1/1994 to cope with ongoing problems. Surely we have a new CB in Gabriel? If you buy another one what do you do with Gabriel? If a new DM is bought what happens to Coq? Even without any new players coming in, how do you fit Debuchy, Gibbs, Theo, Welbeck, Rosicky, Arteta, Chambers, Gabriel, Flamini, Jack & Ox into the side? At present they compromise our 11 outfield back up players. If we sold Arteta & Flamini would the new players be happy sitting on the bench or do you remove Coq or Ramsey from the team?

  69. Wear Your Colours

    Jun 26, 2015, 9:27 #72348

    The way we finished last season was very encouraging. The basis of a title challenging squad is in place. Let's hope that Le Prof puts the final pieces of the Jigsaw in place before the start of the season. Two or three impactful signings and the longed for title could become within reach. The next three or four weeks could prove very significant in Arsenal's illustrious history. COYG!

  70. Peter Wain

    Jun 26, 2015, 8:24 #72347

    same old transfer window. we want a gk centre half holding midfield player and top top striker. what will we get none of these. the indecision in the management of our club is disgusting and when we get rid of the owner board and Wenger will we have a chance of winning something. Every year we are linked with lots of players and buy too few to mount a credible championship challenge. I predict an injury crisis in late September. We need a fresh approach.

  71. Badarse

    Jun 26, 2015, 8:19 #72346

    Good morrow, townsfolk. Firstly, by way of a report, 'Hear ye! Hear ye! Hear ye!' FJ that was an interesting post. Was that the Peter Swan of Sheffield Weds? Imprisoned for a while with 'Bronco' Layne for match fixing? Then banned for years? Interesting, but both very good players. Desmond Dekker, don't get angry. It is as it is. Theo is just a victim of circumstance. I would be overjoyed if he was my grandson-but I understand your sense of unfairness, still life is like that, the good guy doesn't always get the girl...though I did! John F, from way up there in t' north. You have touched on enough there for a day's conversation with me buddy. People who think a sweeping statement covers every base, no concept of what a nuance is, (and it isn't ants arriving late at the, 'Ugly Bug Ball'.), and just want to compartmentalise a problem miss all that the situation presents to a wider lens view. Myopia is a convenient cloak, as well as an Austrian Grandfather. All of life offers two strands, (in a very basic sense), the higher ethical and more aesthetic, plus the practical and pragmatic success route. The latter is the more convenient, quick-fix and recognised-in fact the easier and more beneficial, both in achievement, and reward. The former is one to be aspired to. The juice of life. Yet virtually impossible to attain. Time and circumstance presents too many obstacles, plus it is the acme of existence and realistically is nowt but an aspiration. Still it should always remain that, an aspiration. I think we should always strive for that small kernel. The best we are ever likely to see, and only on extremely rare occasions, is a high-souled desire to incorporate the former harnessed to the more mundane and practical. The artistry linked with sheer hard work. At Arsenal, through one man's vision, though a vision perhaps slightly distorted, it is attempted. It comes close, has succeeded in the past, may again in the near future, and is systematically reached for. That vision shouldn't be denied or dismissed, it should be recognised, then judged. Where's me slice of parkin?

  72. Desmond Dekker

    Jun 26, 2015, 6:38 #72345

    SKG-When i see how many caps Wally Walnutt has got for England when he hasnt got a tenth of the quality and application that Geordie Armstrong had it makes me so angry.Geordie got no England caps

  73. Finsbury Joe

    Jun 26, 2015, 0:41 #72344

    All this talk of old players. Not an Arsenal player, but I was always a fan of Peter Swan, if he hadn't been caught for something by today's standards, relatively innocent,,he probably would have been a World Cup winner. About fifteen years ago, I used to go jogging on a company's sports field in Blackheath Park, Peter, in his role at the time , as some sort of groundsman would be there with his Alsatian kindly advising me to avoid the area he worked on, and choose the Heath or Greenwich Park instead. He really did have something about him.

  74. John F

    Jun 25, 2015, 23:02 #72343

    I could not agree more baddie apart from the hairy bottoms bit.It could be a cultural issue if you look at other team sports such as Rugby the southern Hemisphere and the french all seem to want to pass the ball and play with flair as we tend to pass then hoof the ball up then chase. A couple of years ago I watched my son play on a pitch that was only good for horses and the only option was for the teams to hoof the ball as passing was impossible.If the FA and Prem diverted its vast wealth to some decent pitches and coaches at schoolboy level perhaps the change might come.Don Revie was the start of the demise of the England football team ignoring the flair players for the more functional type as this seemed to set the template for future England managers to follow.If only Cloughie was allowed a go perhaps he may off stopped the decline.I did think Hoddle was doing a good job even with his faith healer in tow and his slightly dubious beliefs.

  75. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 22:21 #72342

    Simmo. Loved him Baddie. Is there any of 71 set we didnt love ha? He d have had 90 caps if not for Bobby Moore though even then Hunter used to get the nod off Ramsey when Moore wasnt fit or rested didnt he. Simmo was better than that dirty f-----r though in my book. He liked a fag. Maybe Wilsheres modelling himself on Simmo?

  76. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 22:10 #72341

    Ron, your last statement 76312 says it all, they know no better.

  77. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 21:45 #72340

    Yes SKG the climate has altered, hasn't it? Must be Globular Warming or something. Seriously, I think our culture plays an immense part in this. By constantly lauding the 'never say die', 'English oak', stuff, perhaps many thought it was a short cut to success. All you have to do is train like mad, turn up, then run yourself into the ground and all will be good. No technical work, or a failure to augment it into the strategy meant a dearth of talent came very quickly. Don't forget we gave the world the long ball a la Taylor, and rewarded him with the England Manager's job. All too daft for words. Hard work is a necessary ingredient but no substitute for artistry on the ball or technical skill and spatial awareness off it-no matter how hairy the player's bottom is. Just a word for Peter Simpson, my pick for best uncapped player ever.

  78. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 21:24 #72339

    Oh Ron, if I had three good knees and was 90 years younger I'd crawl over broken glass to pull on that shirt for a game. Still, if Pod feels he's been there and done that, is a multi-millionaire, and enjoys celebrity status in his twilight years perhaps his personality just says, 'Genug!' Such talent around the box though. Mmm, Petticoat Tails.

  79. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 21:19 #72338

    Badarse: Talking of West Ham, none of the 4 England teams I put together included Brooking (young for England in 71 but still quality) or Billy Bonds who I think never got a full England cap due to injury. I did not include : Osgood, Hudson,Hollins, Bonetti, Tommy Smith, Ian Callaghan, Hughes and so many other quality English First Division players.

  80. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 21:05 #72337

    Yr right Baddie re the Pod, but should use him more even off the bench. Hes a lot to prove now seeing as hes been sent from Italy with his tail further between his legs than hwat it was when he was sent there? Perhaps hes got no pride and Wengers tired of it hence no game time? Never know what goes on behind the scenes do we.

  81. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 20:44 #72336

    Interesting exercise SKG. Thing is I stopped the International game almost 20 years ago, and as if it was connected the teams just slid away into obscurity. Manager's with little personality, panache or charisma, players hyped up by the media, nationalism gone mad, all played their part in me slipping unnoticed out of the back door. Euro '96 was my swansong. Just as an aside I went to the '64 Cup Final to see WHU beat Preston. The clammiest, most stifling game that perhaps I attended. Two youngest ever finalists that day in Howard Kendall and Johnny Sissons. I remember Budgie Byrne carrying a giant hammer that he'd got from a fan, around the stadium on their lap of honour. Zzzpt! What happened there? That was your life mate. Do I get another? Nope, sorry, that's it! Dunk your Rich Teas, chums.

  82. jjetplane

    Jun 25, 2015, 20:38 #72335

    ..... the little toothless piranha is back - it's so easy/like taking candy/from a baby/ .....

  83. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 20:31 #72334

    Heard Kellie Maloney being interviewed today on Radio 4, (nee Frank Maloney). Met him a few times, would never have guessed of the poor man's dilemma in combatting his personal daemons-quite a brave chap. Anyway he said his Dad took him to the Den, being a Peckham lad. He laughingly teased about Millwall always losing and added that perhaps his Dad should have taken him to the Arsenal. Been covered so many times, I think the young SKG was saying this again recently. How lucky I consider myself. Being a Gooner really is like winning the lottery. Oh, and Nick Hornby is a super guy, and extremely talented. Where are the Hob Nobs?

  84. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 20:23 #72333

    By the way lads from 1968 - 71 I have made up four England teams that would easily take care of Roy's eleven. Did you know that of the Ball Harvey & Kendall trinity, only Ball got the England caps - Harvey got 1 off, Kendall none at senior level. If those two were around today they would be first in the team. If any of you have a spare couple of hours do the exercise, it really brings home how poor English players are today compared to 45 years ago. The four teams I put together did not include any Arsenal players, just to remove any suggestion of bias, so add Armstrong, Kennedy, McNab, Radford, Storey and our own Charlie George. All very sobering.

  85. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 20:15 #72332

    Can only ever see Pod as a back-up, make-weight sub Ron. His fitness and mobility is such a crucial factor in the PL. His shooting is very accurate and can be lethal, but it's not enough sadly for a full 90 minutes.

  86. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 20:03 #72331

    Bard ,there'll not be to many betting on it, but the usual nerds will certainly be hoping like they have been every season for years now, more fool them. And it'll not come as much as a surprise if TOF even manages to cock this up, the oyster card issues must still be on going (maybe he wants one for himself) or maybe it will destroy Peyton if he brings his keeper coach, you couldn't make it up

  87. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 20:00 #72330

    Baddie - the Podster is worthy of an extended run ive always thought. Love his shooting. Goes like this " Pod, yr playing. I know yr idle and largely unfit but get in and around that area and just shoot on sight". Lets see how it goes. Hes no lightweight is the Pod. Hes 30 ish. Surely worth giving him a good season? Better bet to score goals than Wellbeck can ever be.

  88. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 19:50 #72328

    Evening 24601. I only threw the Sanogo thing in to see if there were any piranhas in the river. Yes it is a little beguiling trying to second guess another person's intentions. I see Podolski wants to come back home? Just a really difficult jigsaw to fit together; in not fully understanding what is going on behind the scenes there is too much guessing for me. I feel good about the coming season, though I know that isn't an accepted profile amongst a number of posters. Funny we have Bertrand calling others plastic, all very peculiar. Who wants a Jaffa cake?

  89. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 19:50 #72329

    Ha ha. They used to say that about my batting Westie, My improvement was certainly abnormal!

  90. Westlower

    Jun 25, 2015, 19:30 #72327

    @Badarse, Hadn't forgot Sanogo but he'll need a full season out on loan to improve his game. He's very low mileage for his age and could easily make abnormal improvement with a guaranteed start every week.

  91. jjetplane

    Jun 25, 2015, 18:11 #72325

    What a rubbish piece that was and what a narrow view of football as though outside the Wok no football exists. All this I am so Arsenal and you are being unkind to my God is so putrid plastic. Right - where was I. Memories, feelings, French pop songs errr Godard and Truffaut. Cannot make my mind up but Kanu's 3 at Chelski was as the kids say - sick man. Running into the north bank net on the Fairs Cup win and getting a slap off my mum for dirtying my nice white sta-pres. Talking transfers think Liverpool are 'going for it' as their manager unlike ours will be out at Xmas if things are well not sick. Get me. Mr Perry. What yer gonna call yer book. 50 shades of Failure. Kane is staying at the Spuds. Let the circus roll on. Czech, Arteta and Flamini look around and see the BFG out on the wing and no Kos to mop up. He be going to RM for 30m .......

  92. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 17:37 #72324

    Bard - 'achieve' means - stability and security and being able to compete in AFC speak. The discussion then centres on the meaning of compete. We do compete for a top 4 slot and of that there's no doubt or discussion needed. Arsene and the owners know we don't want to compete to go higher. They cant state it though, as say a middle table Club can happily declare that they ll 'try for a euro place etc etc' as the Gunners brand will be demeaned. They have to carry on the pretence if only for the sponsors in today's business world. Its very clever that they can maintain the CL presence and the pretence isnt in danger of exposure. Its top management too by Arsene in all fairness from an owners perspective. In many ways, Wenger (perhaps less so admittedly) and certainly the staff there must privately be as frustrated as the fans are privately. AFC fans, especially the regular match goers need to accept that now. The younger generation of fans have no problem with it ive found as they've not seen differently. Theyve not tasted truly big games like Anfield 89 or WHL 71. They were events in the last century in their mindset. From a players point of view, bar the odd exception AFC is a place to build a name for themselves and then to move on to better, if they're good enough. We have 2 or 3 who could move to the Madrids and Munichs of the football World if they apply themselves, if not theres maybe Manchester Utd who for all their bluster arent at the level of the top euro clubs now. AFC are sort of in constant limbo. Stay there too long and eventually they ll become an aside, a note in the margin type of thing, if we re not there already?. Imagine how it must be for Liverpool? There was no doubts about their pedigree at one time as we ll know, but theyre even further from the head table. None of this is to defend AFC. The debate is wearing though isnt it. Not worth pondering further. Ill stick with my memories of when we really did count for some thing. I wish the younger Gooners could understand, but what theyve not had they'll not miss as my Mother used to say.

  93. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 17:19 #72323

    Fascinating set of conditions we need to work to, 24601. It looks like Arsene will have to do an awful lot of juggling to get the numbers right-so much so he may even be offered a routine with the Summer Online Gooner Circus Troupe. We await with bated breath, except Bard who awaits with berated breath. Only kidding Bard, couldn't quite get the 'baited breath' and those fangs in an amusing sentence. If Cech happens I just hope Ospina gives way. Who else arrives? No one in the middle if Arteta and Flamini stay, I guess. Up front? Think you have overlooked Sanogo.

  94. Bard

    Jun 25, 2015, 17:02 #72322

    Westie its a valid question but the real question is what do the club want to achieve? If they seriously want to challenge for the PL and the CL then they need 3 top players including a top striker in which case he will have to buy but also sell. If we want to battle it out for 4th spot as usual then Cech might be enough. Of course we will hear a lot of spin from the club about how hard it is and we already have a good enough squad but by the end of the transfer window it will be self evident what our aims are. Youre a betting man but i dont expect you will be putting much on 3 top players coming in and neither will I.

  95. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 16:13 #72321

    Tony, it's probably something to do with having very hairy bottoms!

  96. Tony Evans

    Jun 25, 2015, 15:44 #72320

    Disappointing but no surprise to see our under 21s going out last night. Like the senior team they are all mouth and trousers. Sailing through qualification is no benchmark whatsoever for the main event, and time and time again we qualify with flying colours only to be swatted away like an annoying fly once the real action starts. I don't know where it is all going wrong, we just don't seem to be able to produce any real talent and why is that? Nobody, least of all the FA, seem to have any idea.

  97. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 15:10 #72319

    Tony - agree fully. All of the Clubs had a few great players that the top sides would have taken in a blink. Even the smaller Clubs. Astle and Brown for eg could tear up any clubs defence. Dougan and Richards. Tony Currie at Sheff Utd, as cultured as any top Clubs midfielder as just a few egs. It balanced out the player quality didnt it. Tony Green at Blackpool. Brilliant cultured player. Loads of em.

  98. Roy

    Jun 25, 2015, 15:07 #72318

    Yes, loved the comments about Man City too. Sadly the mists of time tend to dull the memories - Corrigan with Booth and Book in front of him, protected by Doyle, with Summerbee ably assisted by Bell and Lee. That was a spine - and - a - half, wasn't it ? I think SKG had it spot on by saying you could pick 4 or 5 England teams from back then that would thrash the present one. How true.

  99. Tony Evans

    Jun 25, 2015, 14:59 #72317

    Thanks Ron - Yes there were some top managers around back then in the late 60s / early 70s, and in many ways it was a golden age for English club football. No one club domination, and there were some great teams about - all playing good football and not afraid to get stuck in either! The Premier League to me is a pale shadow of those days.

  100. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 14:31 #72316

    Tony - It was Tommy Booth. George Heslop also played. City under Mercer knew how to get the balance between attack and defence right.So many really good managers back then. Catterick, Shankly Clough Revie Busby Harvey Ronnie Allen at West Brom and Mc Garry at Wolves for instance too. All knew what attacking football was. Makes me smile when people speak of Arsene as a pioneer for attacking football and that english football was all dour before. Total fallacy. Short memories. TV has elevated todays 'coaches' to levels they dont really merit in my view.

  101. Tony Evans

    Jun 25, 2015, 14:23 #72315

    I think with Cech a great deal will depend on how much his injury has affected his confidence. Will he be willing to dive in there like a Bob Wilson or will he not want to risk himself again. Interesting reading all the comments on that great City team of Bell and co. Who was the other rock hard defender that partnered Doyle at the back was it Tony or Tommy Booth? Something like that anyway. A great side that had flair but also an edge to them - much like all great sides have to have. Wenger please take note!

  102. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 13:34 #72314

    No it's not going through my mind and i'm not hitting anything, hovering between anything, or hoping for anything, because we've all been here before including you, and we know what happens and is going to happen, and it's going to be no different this time, but keep on doing all those things if you wish some of us know better, this old past it manager has knocked that out of us years ago. It's too late for him to succeed now no matter what he does there's been to many cockups, excuses, embarrassments, humiliations, over the years for that, the only thing i'm and others are praying for is for this old excuse for a manager to get on the euro star back to france for good.

  103. Finsbury Joe

    Jun 25, 2015, 13:08 #72312

    Wenger to Guardiola, I think what we will see is a seamless transition from Wenger to Rioch. As for Cech, if true, I feel sorry for him. Mourinho to Wenger....how does a man deal with such a fall. Once one of the best goal keepers, now he will be coached by Gerry Peyton. The most tragic downfall of a great since Muhammed Ali, or maybe Tiger Woods? Lets not kid ourselves, another season of misery, with a healthy mix of failure, frustration and stagnation awaits as long as Wenger and Stan are at the helm. One a positive note, the bank balance will be good though.

  104. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 12:45 #72311

    Westie - Ditto on Cech with you as you know. I cant see him buying a striker to be honest. On Benzema, i reckon hes only a very slightly more refined Giroud. Certainly wouldn't give big money for him. For the right powerhouse, dominant midfielder i d sell Wilshere. Problem is, im not sure one has been mentioned that fits the bill. In short, its Cech and thats it i think. Anyway, the Ashes are coming up so they can do what they want for me for a few weeks mate!!

  105. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 12:01 #72310

    Badarse : Joe Mercer was a lovely man, I remember how he called Pele "Peeler" when summarizing in the 1970 World Cup. Ron you are right about City when Allison took over - I think "Big Mal" thought is was due to him that City won those trophies but we all knew it was Joe as Allison found out himself a few years later.

  106. Westlower

    Jun 25, 2015, 11:56 #72309

    The transfer window is almost here, so put yourself in Wengers shoes as to what to do next. The balance of the 25 man squad dictates no more than 17 non home grown players & at least 8 home grown players must be kept on. Step forward Coquelin, Gibbs, Martinez, Ox, Ramsey, Szcezesny, Walcott, Welbeck, Wilshere, 8 of these 9 are assured a place in the squad. To keep our full compliment we can only get rid of one of the above. Any of them can be replaced by another home grown player. Only Raheem Sterling springs to mind but is he worth £40-50m when we already have Walcott & Welbeck? Gabriel, Ox & Jack need game time, so need to play on a regular basis. Does that mean we only have space for a DM to cover for Coq or will he rely on Arteta & Flamini? If Schneiderlin or Krychowiak arrive then presumably Flamini will depart. Will a new striker be signed or will he rely on Giroud, Alexis, Walcott & Welbeck? Benzema for Giroud? Final thought on the GK situation. Brian Clough reckoned Peter Shilton was worth 10 points a season, so JT's claim that Cech is worth 12-15 points is well wide of the mark. Cech is regressing with age and would still be #1 at Chelsea if he had held his form of 3 or 4 years back. His experience may be invaluable but he's never going to be what he once was. He only played 7 games last season so I'm not convinced he's the answer.

  107. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 11:50 #72308

    Ron: funny you should mention Charlie's two goals in that 2-1 win at Maine Road, my father had a friend who could read a game of football like you and I would read a book. He told me if Arsenal beat City in the 5th round they will win the cup, he also said we would win the league providing Frank stayed fit. He was right on both counts. You could pick 4 or 5 England teams from that period and they would all thrash this current England team.

  108. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 11:26 #72307

    SKG - i used to get to Maine Road a lot. Was a great big stadium. Stood on the Kippax many times. 1969 - 73. Lived up there and at College in Manch. Corrigan Book Pardoe Doyle Booth Oakes Summerbee Bell Lee Young Coleman. If my history is correct i think City in 1968 were the last all english team to win the title. I might be wrong though? Later players like Donachie Towers and lots of others. Very entertaining team. Used to hammer Man Utd. Used to be strange when the Arsenal visited as i liked City and still do. Recall Charlie scoring in a 2-1 win at Maine Road in the double year i think it was. Filthy night and pitch was a bog. Mick Doyle died a few years back i think. Hard as nails but could play as could all of that team. Rodney Marsh joined but team was never the same as Allison got his ego all over everything there. Your right about Summerbee. He was as good as a centre forward as winger.

  109. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 11:09 #72306

    SKG, one thing I remember Joe saying about the speed and stamina of Mike Summerbee, was that he would back him against the then Olympic Gold medallist from Russia-Valerie Borzov-over 100m after 90 minutes of football. He had a good way of emphasising what he wanted to say.

  110. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jun 25, 2015, 10:52 #72305

    Ron : Joe Mercer was to my dad what Frank was to me, as you say Joe was a very good manager. That Man City team was class and mirrored Joe's philosophy on football. I loved Mike Summerbee, the number of full back who thought they were going to leave their mark on him who ended up needing treatment after he got the retaliation first! For real hard men that Mike Doyle was City's talisman, City would not have won the league and the cup without him. They fell apart after he left.

  111. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 10:45 #72304

    I started going to Arsenal at one stage of my life with a work colleague. He was a decade or so older than me and would fill my head with stories of our recent past history, on each and every match day. He idolised 'Uncle' Joe, and said to me that he was the closest to Frank McLintock in terms of fan adoration. Joe was a gentle soul, a great leader, and a good Arsenal man.

  112. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 10:41 #72303

    Fave Arsenal moment? Standing about 4 yards away from Joe Baker after he d took the congrats (no ridiculous knee slides, body heaps and dramatics designed for show those days!) after he d netted v Wolves at the North Bank end. I was about 10. I thought i was looking at the King, the PM and the Pope all wrapped up in one far better package. R.I.P Joe. Youre still the one and only true King of Highbury and always will be for me. Big Raddy ran you close though fella!!

  113. Ron

    Jun 25, 2015, 10:30 #72302

    Good Manager was Joe Mercer at Man C. Created a great side there until they allowed the big head Allison to usurp him.

  114. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 10:22 #72301

    Bard there are detractors and moaners on this site-I don't include your good self, but old grumps there are aplenty. Being positive isn't necessarily the same as pro-Wenger, though often it is of course as his tenure is here and now and occupies the status quo ground. Funny that you didn't connect with the article due to a 'watering down effect', whereas I let most fly over my head as I no longer rush hurdy gurdy into a summer sports extravaganza. Tiny nuances between us-all with odd little fangs protruding from their grinning mouths.

  115. Bard

    Jun 25, 2015, 10:00 #72299

    Graham if you want to go further than the occasional post on here mate you need to up your game. That was a watered down Arseblog. It was so bland as to be meaningless. You only showed your colours with a snide comment about detractors and moaners, and revealing you want Wenger to succeed. If you want to post a pro Wenger article then get to it. It will be well received on here by many. There are hardly any posted presumably because no one can cobble together a coherent argument for him staying.

  116. Tony Evans

    Jun 25, 2015, 9:22 #72298

    Graham - I recognise myself in quite a bit of what you say, albeit with nothing like the intensity of my younger days. We are closer to the finished article than we have been for a while now, and we just have to hope that Wenger doesn't leave us crucially short of the usual two or three players we lack to mount a proper, sustained title challenge this time. Surely even Wenger can't drag the Cech saga out for much longer and then all we can do is wait and hope for the DM and striker to follow in his footsteps.

  117. Badarse

    Jun 25, 2015, 8:10 #72296

    Thanks Graham-very upbeat, as it should be on the surface. Bravado coupled with hope, yet with a dash of reality, perhaps. Personally I am not interested in any of the sports or characters you talk of, neither the inanities of the vacuous radio talk shows, gossip or speculations that the name Arsenal induces. I quietly go into a form of stasis-onlookers may say, 'I get a life!' I patiently await the new season, and yes, this one may be just a little bit special.

  118. smithy

    Jun 25, 2015, 7:53 #72295

    Looking forward to the new season but we need some new signings in key positions- GK, CENTRE BACK, DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD AND A STRIKER. I think he will sign 2 from that list of 4, we never seem to buy what we need, he always goes for the sticky tape/ Diaby will be like a new player option.