Not quite what he expected

Thoughts on RVP’s departure from Man Utd



Not quite what he expected

RVP: Three OT seasons, three bosses


The transfer of Robin Van Persie caught a lot of people by surprise, I suspect including him! The fall from grace (and let's be fair a move to Fenerbache after playing for Arsenal and Manchester United is a fall from grace, irrespective of what he is likely to earn there) must be a blow to a man who appeared to have the world at his feet just over two seasons ago.

In this look at his career I thought it might be worth looking at a number of other high-profile exits from Arsenal and look at whether it was a disaster for us or for them a wrong turning in a career that promised so much. Let's look at Mr. Van Persie first.

He just missed joining the Invincible squad and apparently it was a very difficult funding operation (so skint were we) to bring him to Highbury in the summer of 2004. He was signed from Feyenoord with a reputation as a dynamic but volatile winger but Wenger envisaged a developmental plan that would see him becoming a central striker. Initially he looked very one-footed but obviously oozed class and at the end of his first season scored two sublime goals at the end of the FA Cup Semi-Final in Cardiff against Blackburn. He came on as a substitute in the Final and stuck a terrific penalty coolly past Roy Carroll in a victorious shootout win. It was his only major honour with Arsenal.

His story is well known, a litany of serious injuries punctured by disciplinary problems but a clearly emerging talent which flowered finally in 2010 and 2011 as he finally shook off his injury problems. His stellar season came in 2011/12 when a raft of brilliant goals propelled an average Arsenal side to third place in the League. For months we had the usual 'will he, won't he' saga developing in the press and those of us who have an instinct for these things sensed that the protestations of love for a team that had stood beside him during more than ten years of injury frustration were an elaborate PR facade. A financial adviser friend who works with a number of football agents warned me some months before his announcement that he had very strong indications that he was going to Manchester United. RVP's popularity with Arsenal fans crashed and burned as his statement that his ambitions were greater than those of the club that had nurtured, indulged and developed him sat uneasily with Gooners everywhere and summed up the lack of loyalty of modern footballers.

To every Arsenal fan's frustration he enjoyed an incredible season with United and it is fair to say almost single-handedly won a bang average United team the league title. Of course he was injury-free the whole season and had seemed set for continuing glory with the team that 'the little boy inside him' had apparently prevailed on him to join.

But then it started to go so very wrong. At the end of the title season Alex Ferguson announced his retirement, a decision that was clearly a huge shock to Van Persie. His successor, David Moyes, failed lamentably to fill some very big shoes and United finished to almost universal delight out of Europe, not just the Champions League. Arsenal meanwhile ended a long search for silverware with an FA Cup win and qualified as is their want for the Champions League for the umpteenth season in a row. Suddenly RVP's view of the future looked a little less clear-sighted.

Last season United spent the GDP of a small African Republic to finish fourth, back in the Champions League but needing to qualify (here's hoping!). In the meantime the old injury-prone RVP returned and endured a miserable season in which he seemed to fall out with Louis Van Gaal and watched (injured) as his new team were knocked out of the Cup by his old team as Arsenal strolled on to another Cup success at Wembley.

The news that he is surplus to requirements in a patchy and uneven United squad may see him line already very well-lined pockets but effectively sees him drop out of mainstream European football. There is of course universal Schadenfreude among Arsenal fans. The man who considered himself too big for Arsenal has fallen from grace pretty damn rapidly. Is a Premier League medal roughly comparable to two Cup Winner's medals and an extra season in the Champions League? Could he have got that medal at Arsenal if he had stayed and played as he did? (personally I doubt it)

What is more relevant to a discussion of his view that Arsenal were inferior to United was that this view was based on a continuing Ferguson tenure, an inability of Arsenal to buy or compete for world- class players and a lack of ambition from Arsenal at board and managerial level. Personally I believe Van Gaal may prove a very costly disaster if his first twelve months are anything to go by. The quality of United's football and the hugely expensive mistakes he appears to have made in the transfer market suggest to me that Ferguson is still proving an almost impossible act to follow.

Now that the drain of talent away from Arsenal has hopefully stopped can we really say that many of the 'stars' that left us have really furthered their careers away from Arsenal? Samir Nasri might have a few medals but is his standing in the game and current level of ability near what is was with us? Looking at the exodus to Barcelona over the last dozen or so years can anyone say that any of those players, among them Henry, Petit, Overmars, Hleb, Song, Van Bronckhorst , Fabregas and Vermaelen have seen their careers at Barcelona skyrocket? And Barcelona has been the most successful club in Europe in that time. Henry won a Champions League medal but was a subdued figure at the Nou Camp, Fabregas left as someone who didn't measure up to the expectations of the fans and only Van Bronckhorst probably bettered himself largely because he was a squad player with us and a regular with them.

Possibly the most successful leaver was Ashley Cole although he was a man with two league titles, three cup wins and an appearance in the Champions League final before he left us. Adebayor has brief periods of success before he reverts to type, Gallas was finished by the time he went to Spurs and the Manchester City recruits from us have won medals but individually have not shone as stellar talents or appeared as successful individually as they were with us.

This suggests a number of things. It suggests that Wenger is a canny seller obtaining top dollar for players on a downward path in their careers. Some like David Bentley and possibly Fabregas and Vermaelen have become a gift that keeps on giving through craftily structured sell-on clauses. All that would be irrelevant and quite annoying if we weren't starting to see at last a narrative that we can believe in. Arsenal has again become a haven for world class players with much to offer like Sanchez, Ozil and Petr Cech. Careful financial husbandry when we really wanted a greater commitment from Wenger and the board now looks like it had a purpose. The team might at last be genuine title contenders again with a squad that oozes quality and depth. While large numbers of recruits are unnecessary we would be greatly reassured if the 'super qualidee' recruits keep coming and perhaps the most important is a world- class striker.

Perhaps someone like Robin Van Persie, but then again isn't he subsiding into Turkish football and the lower echelons of the usual suspects in the Champions League? Whatever the rights and wrongs of his decision surely he couldn't have believed that three years on his rather unfulfilled United career would be over with most United fans happy to see their recent idol out of the door. A man whose lack of faith and disloyalty to Arsenal has blown up in his face. Enjoy Istanbul Robin and try not to think of what might have been if you'd taken an alternative course.


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220
comments

  1. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 17, 2015, 8:51 #72915

    Exeter, I didn't say that you despised a person, I said the running of the club and then you highlight those thoughts precisely.

  2. Made Up Stat

    Jul 17, 2015, 8:14 #72912

    Jamerson's logic: Despite finishing 3rd in a 38 game season, Arsenal were the second best team.

  3. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 16, 2015, 17:35 #72905

    And finally, Exeter Gunner great post.

  4. jjetplane

    Jul 16, 2015, 17:31 #72904

    So Ozil is looking to Juventus to save him and they will if Pogba goes to ..... Citeh? What's 42m when you trying to compete with petro dollars. You could not make it up. Crack pipes all around. Only comment from the club: 'I did not smoke it'.....

  5. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 16, 2015, 17:24 #72903

    MARCUS, welcome back and good post and description, yes Cohesion the new wenger buzz word for the new season, expect to hear it in every pre and post match interview, but i'm sure mental strength and sperritt will not be forgotten. You couldn't make it up.

  6. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 16, 2015, 16:53 #72901

    Hiccup, Ah yes the old keeping his powder dry line, the AKB's favourite i haven't heard it for a long time now it's bound to be produced again soon. You couldn't make it up.

  7. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 16, 2015, 16:42 #72900

    Danny, I refer you to post 76914. jw, yes mate whatever OGL says will be/is lapped up by the sheep and the party line towed without a whimper.

  8. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 16, 2015, 16:29 #72899

    jj, yes all's going to plan, to hell with the team and new signings we've sold an extra 100,000 shirts in Singapore.

  9. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 16, 2015, 15:33 #72898

    Coleslaw - Save for the word "Exeter" (whose posts are ten times more edifying and honest than yours), this could have been an autobiographical account of your performance on this site. Time to start being true to yourself.

  10. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 16, 2015, 14:59 #72897

    Exeter , you still can't find anything original to say that hasn't been done to death on here. You obviously like the sound of your own words, or other posters on here, but they are repetitively boring and have no value. When you have something that is witty, analytical or insightful then wake me up, as you certainly have none of those qualities in your words.

  11. Exeter Gunner

    Jul 16, 2015, 14:24 #72896

    I don't despise anyone, Coleboy. I simply see the club's business model for what it is. The target is 3rd/4th and a profit. Any higher or a cup would be a nice bonus, but is not the target. This is yearly flagged to you when e.g. Arteta is re-signed for one year rather than adding another proper DM to the only one currently in the entire first team squad. It is flagged to you by the throwing of ever improving contracts at a manager who has demonstrated again and again he is incapable of going beyond 3rd in the league or beyond a two legged tie in the EC, and whose methodology means a yearly injury crisis is inevitable. In the last couple of years the business model has seen a need to sign a marquee player each year to refresh the brand. This year they think they can get away with doing it on the cheap with Cech, due to his name and reputation. I simply see it how it is - I look at what actually happens. You go down the route of blind obedience in lieu of thinking for yourself. As a consequence you provide no insight, wit or analysis and are, by some distance, the worst of the regular posters on here.

  12. Bard

    Jul 16, 2015, 14:24 #72895

    Baddie your arguments are undermined by the trivialising of important developmental stages. I gave up my dummy at the end of last season and very painful it was. I confess to still sleeping a babygrow but will give that up when we next win the league. I think your post was antibabyist and am surprised it got by the Eds. I do have some sympathy for your apathetic/Zen approach to change at Arsenal. But as I have posted before if you buy a Bentley you expect a bit more from its performance.

  13. jjetplane

    Jul 16, 2015, 12:13 #72894

    WESTIE that was some scape of a post. Have you seen who has ruled the roost in youth terms over the last decade. If Wenger was so good at it why are Norwich doing better at that level with Chelski winning the YC 3 out of 4 the last one running riot against Citeh's youngsters with Arsene's 'can we all be number 10 sir' nowhere to be seen. You keep carping on about this is the year and yet project youth are performing in as underwhelming a manner as the seniors. You are quite silly with your juvenile 'hatred' of the spuds and Maureen and underneath it all is probably a deep frustration that Arsene is not and has not been up to it. You tell MARCUS to go to the bridge but I bet he has seen more of Arsenal than you have these barren Wenger years. If you think it's that good, why don't you get down there or are you secretly waiting for Wenger to do the right thing and retire due to football ignorance and confusing the game with academical abstractions. Onwards and upwards.

  14. Cranial Screwtop

    Jul 16, 2015, 11:44 #72893

    Maybe just as an all-round backup player we could do with someone like Phil Neal. Before his glory days at Liverpool he played for Northampton, and at one point or another in his career with the cobblers actually played in every single position on the pitch, including goalkeeper. I always thought this was because of teammates injuries and what have you (and in them days there was only one sub allowed), but no, apparently for a long time he was the only player they had.

  15. Bard

    Jul 16, 2015, 10:59 #72892

    The boss is morphing nicely into David Brent mode these days. His latest treatise on our midfield is a thing of wonder. Apparently they can all play anywhere in midfield but if you ask them they all want to play centre mid because er.... they are all centre mid players. Its like saying we have 3 keepers and bizarrely they all want to play in goal. Fantastic.

  16. jeff wright

    Jul 16, 2015, 9:49 #72891

    A few flaws in your analysis there Westie regarding our second half season, let's face it under Arsene these days it is always half a season , any season! You fail to mention however our familiar collapse at the end of the league run-in when under pressure from City for the second place that was there for the taking we failed to hold off their challenge and ended up in 3rd spot. Your post and silly Jamie's one before imply that it was a two horse race between us and Chelsea for the title ,when in reality we were fighting City and United for second and 3rd place. We lost the battle for 2nd spot to City .You implication that we are now the main challenger to Chelsea for the title is complete nonsense. My advice old chap is don't rush in and takethose 9/2 odds because they are far too short and better ones will soon be on offer ! As for Jamie's view that only Chelsea were better than us again this is not true the league doesn't lie ,we were 3rd best they were second best. On the Community Shield and it's implications for winning it regarding the league,well dear Jamie why not ask David Moyes about it.

  17. Westlower

    Jul 16, 2015, 8:39 #72890

    Welcome back Marcus, how are things at the Bridge? Are you sure Bony & Remy are better than Giroud? You ask where Arsenal's improvement is going to come from. IMO the improvement started last season when our key players returned from long term injuries. Chelsea stole a march on us in the first half of the season when due to injuries, we struggled to keep a consistent side together. In the New Year we got a point more than the Champions + a consecutive FA Cup win. Chelsea were blessed with a relatively injury free season, which is as well for Maureen as he doesn't believe in rotation or playing young guns. Given a level playing field with injuries the gap between AFC & Chelsea will close. The improvement that comes with maturity from Ramsey, Ox, JW, Theo, Welbeck, Bellerin, Gabriel, Gnabry will give us the edge over the bought in super stars that Maureen craves. A year ago we didn't have Gabriel, Cech, Alexis, Chambers, Debuchy or Welbeck & our squad is so much stronger now. There is no World Cup hangover for Ozil this season & he is pivotal to our chances of winning the PL. The bookies have us at 9/2, so the professional odds makers think we have every chance of being Champions. In the summer before the Invincibles season we only bought a GK, Lehmann - an omen perhaps?

  18. Ozzie

    Jul 16, 2015, 6:29 #72889

    Von Pursie is a Turkey - hahaha! A penalty taker & tap-in merchant fed to his feet by Song & Fabregas. One stand out year. Good luck charlatan.

  19. CT Gooner

    Jul 16, 2015, 3:07 #72888

    I think Marcus hits the nail on the head. The successful managers have either inherited amazing teams (Guardiola), spent a shed load of coin (any City manager), or been ruthless (Ferguson). Many will likely feel Wenger has lacked that quality, and perhaps that's been to the detriment of club success. Project youth was a gamble, with Wenger erring on the side of high wages versus potential player turn over. A gamble worth taking maybe, but on reflection very few are in our first 11. It also resulted in us having players on the books we couldn't give away. Id argue, given our financial constraints, we can't afford any dead weight if we're to pay competitively and have any realistic expectations at a championship push. For me, that means Flamini & Arteta should be gone, wage being used to cover an extra DM, and I'd likely have let Theo go, as I think there are better striker out there for 100k a week. Now tell me, how much of the 75 mil war chest have I used up, 15 maybe on a young back up to Colquin, perhaps 32 on Benteke?? We can argue about who the replacements could be, but I doubt there's much arguement about the positions I've focused on

  20. jjetplane

    Jul 15, 2015, 21:45 #72887

    JAMIE think you will find Sanchez is in the process and should be 'good to go' come the end of the season or whenever the league cup confetti is released. Think you find i have never advocated spend spend spend but have simply stated a new coach would save a lot of what has been happening over the last decade. Arsenal are still not in opposition and Arsene only was because the mankies let him have a bite of the cherry. Without the likes of Overmars and Pires Wenger would have been long gone. Dwarves on toadstools. You are so 10th rate Disney mate ....

  21. Badarse

    Jul 15, 2015, 21:42 #72886

    CT Gooner I respect your answer and view. However the concept of dumping players like Arteta and Flamini isn't this current Arsenal style. As I pointed out previously they are freebies now. Probably had a reduction, (bloody reductionism), in salaries, so good work , or good business done there. Quality? Another matter. Still two men of their calibre who bring other attributes to the squad, on and off the pitch, and can do a job are worthwhile in a sense. There is no question that both will slip off the radar after this season, so that big Gun DM may well arrive in January. It all depends on many factors so I shall patiently await any new arrivals as and when they arrive. Your approach is quite clear andvalid enough, mine though with a slightly different emphasis is similar. Sadly some over your side of the fence have other agendas. Constantly backing others against AFC on the pretext of being more aware and knowledgeable. Or they just roll up their trousers go paddling and seek to throw crap at AFC and any who support the club. Others are locked in a loop. Some cannot quite grasp the concept that 'Mummy's little boy' cannot get everything his own way. Some are probably not even AFC fans. All very tiresome. Anyway thank you for the good explanation. 4-0 again.

  22. jjetplane

    Jul 15, 2015, 21:31 #72885

    Thanks for clearing that up WeSTIE. So Cohesion is a little fella. Maybe he should get the No 10 shirt. You're right - we are good to go ..... onwards and upwards ..... Good old Frank ..... Being a bit shortist here but the Arse boyz must look like giants 'over there.' Any marketing memos we should know about WESTIE. So much easier chatting to you than your 2nd in command. Any news on the 'sketch' wot JAMIE as ordered. Yours cowering .....

  23. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Jul 15, 2015, 21:23 #72884

    This guy gets more comical by the year. Have you lot been listening to whT he's been saying about "cohesion"?? He said something along the lines of this, that he dots not need to buy 8 players which is true but he then said that this team that finished 3rd last year has the quality to win the pl!! And he might not buy anyone else. This man gets more and more deluded by the years and it had nothing to do with he's age look at van gal practically the same age and he still has all his marbles!! There is a great article on football364 which literally destroys Wengers nonsense about cohesion. It basically days that Wenger if he took over chelsea when mourinho did he would have kept all those players Maureen got rid off I.e mata, schurele etc and not bought the necessary players to challenge for the pl because of cohesion!! And they would not have won the pl under Wenger. Also why in the hell is he giving out 1 year contracts to the likes of arteta?? Why did we not go in for schnderllin?? That same article says that attar and flamini would both be 6th and 7th choice respectfully at manure or chelski!! The man is just plain DELUSIONAL!! All this God like worship he gets whilst in these countries goes to he's head! He actually believes his a superstar smh!! The man is just not ruthless enough to win us the premier league by going out and biting the two players we need he wants cohesion with a team that finished 3rd!!! Where is the improvement going to come to win the pl?? When are main rivals are improving theirs?? He just is not ruthless enough. Too many players play for us who are not good enough! Giroud is a decent striker by does he win you the pl?? The answer is no. I always ask the giroud fanboys whether giroud would start for man city, Man U and chelsea if everyone is fully fit?? They can never answer as they know he would be on the bench with strikers better than him like remy and bony!! Why is Wenger scared of hurting players feelings?? This is a massive club let them fight for their positions like van gaal is doing at manure!! The man is so infuriating and annoying. CECH WONT WIN US THE LEAGUE. Some fools seem to think because we bought cech we will now win the pl!! It's unbelievable how many of are so called fans make us look like right fools!! De gea was the best goal keeper last year for me and what barely got 4th. Look cech is great signing 100% but they way Wenger said tj was a hard decision made me wonder whether this guy is just plain lying to not upset opsina and sczeney!! Hard decision Loool as I said the man lacks that ruthlessness. Well anyone who keeps diaby for 8 years lacks it.

  24. Roy

    Jul 15, 2015, 21:09 #72883

    Of course RVP did what he had to do at the time in order to win a title medal, I don't think there's many that would dispute that. However, it's different for fans isn't it ? I bloody hate Manure, and I still haven't forgiven Frank Stapleton, so RVP has no chance ! We're all different I know, but some things last for life. COYG.

  25. jeff wright

    Jul 15, 2015, 20:05 #72882

    of course dear Jamie,just like we got an idea of where we would finish in the league against City after we beat them in the CS last season.

  26. jeff wright

    Jul 15, 2015, 19:45 #72881

    Ah so! Hiccup, I have just used reductive revisionist AKB mathematical logic and I stand corrected. This proves that won the league last season by using its statistical analysis .It's even better though if you use a Chinese Calendar because using that we also won the Champions League as well!

  27. Hiccup

    Jul 15, 2015, 19:22 #72880

    Jeff, your analysis is floored. Your stats are very selective. Please apply the AKB goldfish brain thought process, and use calendar year analysis before engaging with the AKB's.

  28. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 15, 2015, 19:16 #72879

    Ah Exeter, you are so fragile. You despise the running of the club, I don't. And the beat goes on.

  29. jeff wright

    Jul 15, 2015, 18:59 #72878

    Spot on Westie the GK situation is a red herring as I said the other day,we lost 5 points down to GK errors the Chavs lost 3.Factors other than GK mistakes separated us from them and need sorting. They won't be though,trust me on this. Chelsea won 87 points we won 75 .A bit short of what you expected Westie ,but hey as the actress said to the bishop sometimes yo have to take what is on offer... we lost 2 games at home, Chelsea none .We lost 5 away ,Chelsea 3. They scored more goals than us as well. So obviously we need to improve ,but I won't be holding my breath on it happening. United are in for a new CB ,we are sticking with Per and Kos .Let's see how good Peter is when he has those pair in front of him instead of JT and Gary and Mourinho tactics. Good luck to him.

  30. OBG

    Jul 15, 2015, 18:53 #72877

    Had he not had that spectacular season with us before Rednose came in for him, I doubt anyone would ever have tried to buy him....what with his balsa knees and glass ankles. He had One Full season for us - and then when an opportunity came a knockin' he dumped us like a safe. Prior to that full season he was continually un-reliable due to injuries - Not saying the injuries were his fault...but he got paid very handsomely for playing very few games. l don't care where he's gone or how he does...he's a millionaire who turned his back on the club that had stayed with him through all the not good times (those years on semi-injury). so **** him.

  31. Exeter Gunner

    Jul 15, 2015, 18:49 #72876

    goonercoletcetc - Do you have any original thoughts of your own, or is your output genuinely confined to comments that read like they've been pasted in from the official site and witless barbs at those who don't share your Critique = Treason, obedient little Emirates soldier boy worldview?

  32. Westlower

    Jul 15, 2015, 18:09 #72875

    This year in the PL Chelsea played 19, conceded 13 goals. Arsenal played 19, conceded 13 goals. One team had two outstanding GK's, the other had two crap GK's. One team had the best defensive unit in the PL (all 9 of them), the other were vulnerable to the counter attack & set pieces. One team had an inspirational captain, the other team didn't. Conclusion: a little bit of cohesion can take you a long way!

  33. Danny

    Jul 15, 2015, 18:09 #72874

    we need buy more quality players. today we saw the youth of Arsenal which were raw and no of them will make it. Chuba Akpom might have scored 3 today, but is not good enough for a squad that wants to win the league Another thing, why waste time writing a article on RVP. HE WAS A UNITED PLAYER!

  34. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 15, 2015, 18:08 #72873

    Ouch, the vertically challenged are not liking any of their own medicine. Muguiresbridge can't give a reason for his hatred of the manager, jeff tried but keeping all his followers contented is trying on his patience and Exeter just finds it all too time consuming to respond with anything more than a one liner. Nice confidence booster for Akpom as he starts his career properly with the first team. I hope he continues to progress, as he is quick, skilful and has an eye for goal. Onwards and upwards.

  35. jeff wright

    Jul 15, 2015, 18:05 #72872

    If another 40+m late panic buy arrives at the last knockings of the window , or even another Danny Boy type, this will instantly be greeted as a stroke of genius by Arsene. Even if he has nothing to do with it . The script will be rewritten to show that he ALWAYS intended to sign the player but clouds got in the way. As they do. At the moment Arsene says no new hombres are required ,so this is the current party line for all the good little AKB's to parrot . Whatever Arsene says must be true as far as they are concerned. One of the big problems with all of this Arsene knows best nonsense is that in reality he doesn't really have any idea of what he is doing. He just reacts to events or has decisions made for him by Stan ,such as the Ozil and Welbeck late shows, after having having made the same sort of comments that he is currently making about not needing any new players. Fear not though because the excuses are already in place to cover for a first game 'shock result' this term such as the Villa and Leicester types that provoked noisy outbursts from disgruntled supporters. Sanchez will be absent and when he comes back it will be like signing a new player. Working out Wenger's moves is not that difficult really he uses the same ones time after time. Does his 8m a year wages depend on book balancing to help keep Stan's share prices up ,who knows,but it is a fact that Stan is more concerned with his shares in AFC that give him collareral to raise cash in the USA to help finance projects there than he is in spending money to try and put Chelsea in their place in London. Under Stan and Wenger this will never happen they are happy with a domestic cup and 4th place in the league.The cup wins recently have been used to put a bit of gloss on things . We have become the new spuds of London an FA Cup club .We used to laugh at them celebrating winning it with silly Chas and Dave songs . Now we gloat because we have taken their place with Chelsea the top club now in London and it is they who compete for the league title as we once did.You couldn't make it up.

  36. Exeter Gunner

    Jul 15, 2015, 17:36 #72871

    The irony of being called a dwarf by an intellectual pygmy.

  37. Hiccup

    Jul 15, 2015, 17:23 #72870

    Guys, I'm just wondering at what point this summer do the AKB's wheel out Commandment No 71, "we are keeping our powder dry". That line used to give us a good laugh. Then they used to debate whether we were keeping "our powder dry" for when Fergie retired or saving it all for the 'impending' new manager. Oh yes, and what about saving it all for when FFP kicked in and we would then dominate the world. But seeing as we are 'good to go' now, I'm sure any further additions will be looked upon by Jamie as unnecessary and will spoil the dynamic and morale of the squad. Should Wenger waste money on any unnecessary additions in his eyes, I'm sure we'll see Jamie up in arms with such waste. Or maybe not?

  38. jjetplane

    Jul 15, 2015, 16:43 #72869

    Verily in the company of genius we are. painfil to watch such agony as head is pushed to wall and reduced to meta-pulp. We stand in awe and wonder and think of how it was for dear Frederick N as the horse was beaten in a square in Turin. The madness of us fools. Any news from the marketing dept? Have we sold a shirt or two. Good old capital.

  39. Bard

    Jul 15, 2015, 16:29 #72868

    Baddie; I have personally been won over by the notion of reductionism recently, although I have a real affection for polarities. I was helping Pete at my workshop with hjs capital letters and he very wisely said why construct a coherent f***** argument when you can reduce them to rubble by twatting them, it saves time and gives them an almighty headache ? I remain stunned by the clarity of his thinking. So dont knock reductionism. If I may suggest a bit of reductionism in relation to the length of your sermons would be welcomed.

  40. mark from aylesbury

    Jul 15, 2015, 16:00 #72867

    I think the situation is like this. 3+ years ago we were still on project youth. 3+ years ago if you attacked Arsene Wenger on the radio you were seen as being of your trolley, not following the established line. 3+ years ago moneyball economics was being pushed into the media as being our great scientific method 3+ years ago our squad was relatively settled with very little challenge for position 3+ years ago we were still on a rolling big fat zero trophy haul over the decade 2+ years ago - Critical analysis of Wenger openly appears in the media with some journalists asking for his head 2+ years ago - Project youth appears to be dropped 2+ years ago - Moneyball economics appears to be dropped with the demand from the board for a Saurez bid and the ultimate purchase of Ozil 2+ years ago - A move towards more pragmatic football after further thrashings from our top 4 rivals 2 years ago - A move over to 1 big name purchase per season up to a certain cost. Richard Laws appears to have full control of negotiations. Last season - after a poor start pragmatic football greater speed and drive via Sanchez. Greater belief through the team against top 4 rivals. This year - perhaps Cech's coach is arriving and we are grabbing the German conditioning coach. Now if you believe the progression in improvement is all down purely to Arsene Wenger than by definition you must be an AKB. If you feel that the majority of the improvements have been led by internal an extenal pressure than one can only assume you must be an AMG or at least cynical in regard to his capacity for improvement. For the record I believe that improvement has come but mainly through external pressure and therefore I still have very little confidence in Wenger delivering a further title. I would also add that the amount of double header home games Chelsea have next season plus a row of 4 games against relegation fodder in a row more or less gives them the title next season baring any major injury crisis. Think we are still on a 3 year upward curve for the title with hopefully a new manager

  41. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 15, 2015, 15:59 #72866

    So there you are then a player just has to be associated with us and the wenger injury jinx strikes, Bard and you can be sure he'll be believed too. You couldn't make it up.

  42. CT Gooner

    Jul 15, 2015, 15:57 #72865

    @Baddie: I have to admit, I had to look up reductionism, so thank you for expanding my vocabulary, though I doubt I'll use it much. You are likely correct, we all try to reduce complex situation to more simpler ones in order to help us get our heads around them. Where you seem to have me wrong is your assumption that I'm asking for sexy picks. The truth is far from that, i made clear previously I'd like to see our squad improved. I see that as upgrading our weakest positions. I recognize we have a very good starting 11, but then a significant drop off, which says to me we have room for improvement. And yes, I blame our manager for that, but it's not about the pounds spent. Look at Southampton, they reloaded their talent with great scouting, all for about the same as we spent on Ozil. Now they're bringing in a replacement for Schneiderlin at what 8 mil?? I view cech as a great signing, but I also think we need to get rid of arteta, flamini, campbell, jenkinson, or anyone else the gaffer won't play and bring in competition at all positions. I recognize each individual has a different view, and the camp titles you hate capture groups with different views, but I believe a club like ours should be constantly improving, how else will regain the crown of Kings of London???

  43. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 15, 2015, 15:47 #72864

    Bob, of course it's a non story mate, and has been for a long time, but the wengerites just can't let it go.

  44. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 15, 2015, 15:36 #72863

    Baddie, never drink the stuff i even despise Guinness, even more than OGL.

  45. Badarse

    Jul 15, 2015, 15:26 #72862

    CT Gooner, that is just plain reductionism. It's OK, our world operates in that dormant mode now. With us or against us? Reductionism! Black and white. Whatever happened to those fifty shades of grey? The crux of your argument/view is that we need better players. The 'whys' and 'wherefores' do not even get consideration. Therefore as you consider we need them, then we must. It is AW's fault we cannot buy, 'all those brightly coloured candies in the store', or rather it's a plot to upend your good selves-you and those like you. You then make that foolish assessment that those who see things differently are somehow lesser beings. Just barely able to be spoon fed milk sops. Why? Because we are AKBs, (reductionism rampant), and we as a group share the manager's and board's, (owners?) lowly ambition. You have no idea of my personal ambition, either in football, or life in general. It probably supersedes your own, but I wouldn't be so presumptuous to claim as much. Sadly a term used by groups of which you adhere, use the phrase 'smoke and mirrors', and rather too conveniently. It is employed by those who graze your side of the fence, and hurled as a jibe at those my side, and make no mistake we do occupy different sides. However they are used by your team indefatigably. Perhaps you should stop using them and get a clearer view of reality? In essence we have a squad, arguably good enough to run with the pack, though possibly weaker than the other one/two/three front runners. You say spend in buckets, (buy success), others say perhaps a player if available. This is the point that the toys come flying out of your respective prams.

  46. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 15, 2015, 15:17 #72861

    Colesoreboy, everywhere he goes he has his tongue out.

  47. CT Gooner

    Jul 15, 2015, 14:39 #72860

    @Jamerson; like JW points out, and most agree with, the squad is not excellent for the ambition most Arsenal supporters. As much as I too would like to see the players you mention progress, we are not Spurs, so why play player who aren't good enough to compete at the highest level. And there lies the crux, AKB's share the ambition of the manager & current owners, while the AMGs don't. I make no apology for being in the AMG camp.

  48. jjetplane

    Jul 15, 2015, 14:26 #72859

    AKnewB bloody art ain't it! Just heard Danny is still injured which gives Giroud centre stage once more though surely Theo would like to play in the middle as he is better than that invincible bloke Henry. Sanchez will be good to go by December and Ozil has gone missing while doing charity work. Apparently Arsenal's marketing team are of a greater number than the squad out there. Arsene has told the team to just get on with it. Express their mental strenght and spirit. They like spirits in the east. Ghost stories like the one where Arsenal win a major trophy. What will they make of Arsene's tattooed imps.

  49. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 15, 2015, 14:15 #72858

    Badarsio - Stanley Unwin meets LSD. I hope your carer is due to call round this afternoon otherwise you're gonna be in a right two 'n' eight.

  50. Alsace Lorraine de Cabinets du Neasden

    Jul 15, 2015, 14:10 #72857

    Undoubtedly a good thing to have won two F.A. Cups because (1) Cheers everyone up (2) Gives us a sense of progress (3) Encourages winning as a habit (4) a reward for the player's hard work. I have never seen Arsenal win an F.A. Cup by slaughtering the other team in the final before. If we want to do more of the same we need 3 players ( Striker / DM and Centre half) and to get rid of dead wood. OGL (could but he) won't so the FA Cup is all we have to look forward to competing for. That isn't the end of the world but we could do better.

  51. Badarse

    Jul 15, 2015, 13:33 #72856

    Snore Wife had her several dwarts, Breezy, Wheezy, Ropey, Hippy, Bumfull, Dozey and Snot. They always gave her sometimes apples quite much. She desired the Frog on the Tyne so Goldy Devious were a first choosing. Still it can be said she did enjoy a cox and often wimpled, 'Oh my pip pins!', then would straighten her legs. One sit on a Tyne a Dark Moany gruntled by and by. She was a smokey bacon and mirrorman. 'Look in two eyes, locking too ice!' said a Littlie Brittle fatter man-and she diddle. Arsenic Noah's beast, the AKBs staid, and sooner she wart, just likely them. Now she is sported on streetcars namely retired, offering her tempting fruits to passing, dribbling and shooting strangeloves. Would you adamant and even it?

  52. jjetplane

    Jul 15, 2015, 13:33 #72855

    Daniel Crowley in the Guardian as one to watch during Arsene's Asia tour. He is a midfielder of diminutive stature who has played as a winger though he thinks of himself as a No 10. Apparently he is the kind of player the manager likes. Nothing funnier than reality. Wenger's (Gulliver's) travels in the land of Lilliputian midfielders. The question is when will he be going back to Villa? Talking of midfields, seems the Manky Utd are doing a better job at contrasting/complimenting ..... Cheers WESTIE/JULES! Mine's a soda water every time.

  53. jeff wright

    Jul 15, 2015, 13:23 #72854

    dear Jamie just as well that Arsene signed Sanchez last season because if we had relied on those players that you mention we would have ended up out of the top 4 ! With you really being a Chelsea supporter on here on a wind up that would have suited you anyway.

  54. Mark from aylesbury

    Jul 15, 2015, 13:08 #72853

    Jameson - how do you know that Wenger is not adding to the squad? Will you be upset if he does? Rumours are thAt we are still in for two players. He will probably go in last minute. Can't wait if he does for your revisionist comments

  55. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 15, 2015, 13:05 #72852

    That's kind of you jeff but I had already assigned you to that role as their leader. The disbelievers are dwindling. Onwards and upwards.

  56. Bob

    Jul 15, 2015, 12:18 #72851

    The dilemma was always whether it was good for us to win two FA Cups. For those who think that no Arsenal supporter should ever hesitate about whether they want us to win things, I think our worst fears are being realised. Wenger has rested on his laurels big time, leaving us with the one stellar signing he made last season starting the new season out of condition, while the other teams have already been busy seriously strengthening their squads. We are destined to fall "just short" yet again while this man is at the helm.

  57. Tom from St Albans

    Jul 15, 2015, 11:43 #72850

    Hi Ron, an enigma is a good word to describe Giroud, he's a good player like you say and is missed when he's not in the starting line up but it would be nice no see a bit more aggression, desire and fire in his belly. I think he is probably regarded as an A list celebrity in France which I suspect doesn't help focus him on match day, not as casual as Adebayor but casual in some respects. Yes JT is a great defender and I guess there isn't many players in the world who can adapt and perform well against the vast spectrum of opposing players who have an array of skills and strengths week in week out. Most strikers have a purple patch for a few seasons then defenders work them out and reduce their goal tally. With RVP the good defenders would push him on to taking the shot with his right foot so less chance of a cracker into the top corner. Thanks for asking about fatherhood Arseneknewbest, it's good but hard work, I tried my boy out with my old shirts before I buckled under the pressure of modern football and bought him one in the club shop. The one that looked best on him was the Adidas Bruised Banana 1994 away shirt, remember that? It's way too big as a shirt but he can wear it as a gown just about avoiding to trip up as it's full length on him, looks like a little Ewok! You still see some people wearing that shirt on match day in N7, an Adidas design classic!

  58. jeff wright

    Jul 15, 2015, 10:40 #72849

    Colseyboy, we will have to call you Snow White given your fascination with dwarves ,hi-ho hi-ho it's off to work we go , could be a chant for you and your pals who do all that singing at the coliseum ,you could always chuck in the odd OLA! as well to show your appreciation for Arsene's passing game . It all worked well against Villa in the cup final and with the man in a crash helmet joining the party Arsene can see no reason why he needs anyone else so it is just a case of, hi-ho hi-ho it's off to work we go , ain't it exciting !

  59. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 15, 2015, 10:31 #72848

    Didn't realise an association with jeff made you so touchy akb. Hi ho hi ho.

  60. Ron

    Jul 15, 2015, 10:30 #72847

    Tom - Giroud is a bit of an enigma isnt he. Hes not a top drawer CF and most recognise that, but hes very decent in my view. A strong athlete and quite poised in his running i always feel but hes not one for the actual physical skirmishes (well, not with opponents anyway!!) when the barging starts and the elbows are flying. Its a minus for him. There are a lot worse CFs though. Ideally Giroud is a support striker and ought to be a 2nd choice to a top marque striker. Quite who that striker should be is the mystery. Lewendowski would be good, though we wouldn't land him or even seek to land him of course. Be that as it may i have a liking for Giroud. We certainly miss him when hes not playing. First time i saw him was at Brighton in the FAC a couple of seasons back. He scored a cracker that day in a 3-2 win. He looked good, but hasnt quite reached the mark i thought he would since.PS John Terry has been the best CB in the PL for a decade and few have ever got much change from him. Hes another that Wenger may have well have signed back in 2002 but didnt.

  61. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 15, 2015, 10:26 #72846

    I'm well thanks mate. I hope fatherhood is treating you well. My three jooonior gooners are driving me nuts asking me about new signings. You wouldn't believe the disappointment on their little faces. "What, still only Cech", said my ten year old over his kedgeree and cornflakes this morning. Bard - just read Weng's comments in the Guardian. I assume he was, erm, petting the club's groundhog as he was issuing those nuggets of wisdom. Marquee-type signings in the last few years (Ozil and Sanchez) have a had a significant psychological effect on players and fans (as well as on the pitch). He's going to have to go into spin overdrive without one this year (and without Abou D to unveil as a new signing).

  62. Red Member

    Jul 15, 2015, 10:25 #72845

    and so with a little over 2 weeks to the start of another season I return to this site to see what has been happening on planet Arsenal over the summer. Ok so I see we have bought the Chelsea reserve goalkeeper. decent start to the summer spending I suppose. Ok who else have we got? Hmmm we don't appear to have bought anyone else...yet thats ok because according to Wenger we don't need anyone else....well if we are competing for the top 4 he might have a point but hang on I thought that we were supposed to be challenging for the title this season...oh dear obviously not. sorry I forgot that hype was around the time wanted the mugs to renew their season tickets again. Must be job done on that at least. 4th placed trophy here we come. what a fun season it will be zzzzzzzzzzzz

  63. Tom from St Albans

    Jul 15, 2015, 9:59 #72844

    @Arseneknewbest thanks for the welcome, how's things with with you? Still haven't really got excited just yet about the forthcoming season, lets see what the next few months bring, Cech was a good signing even though there is only a couple of seasons left in his tank and is probably past his best. Certainly not a bad thing having a strong leader in the side, possibly a future captain or vice captain. Last game I went to was the Chelsea Game at Ashburton Grove, Giroud didn't get a look in, he is taller than JT but not sure whether he couldn't be bothered, was tired or just wasn't strong enough which is hard to believe.

  64. Bard

    Jul 15, 2015, 9:24 #72843

    I'm loving all the pre season spin. According to the messiah, we dont need other players because we have 'cohesion'. Quite how many goals cohesion will score is anyones guess. We also had a real treat on the Cech purchase. apparently both our keepers are top class already (no he was serious), Cech is just an addition or words to that effect. Coseyboyes where is upwards and onwards taking us, dont you mean jogging on the spot. Come on bring me that 4th spot. By the by Pete is doing really well at my workshop. He has stopped chewing the pencils and is writing in capital letters, he plans to post an AKB article circa 2020.

  65. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 15, 2015, 9:22 #72842

    Coleslaw - Your posts use to contain a genuine air of menace. Now you're calling people dwarves (yuck!) because they disagree with your less-than-eloquent world view. You coulda been a contender, but I reckon you and the execrable Jamie son are on the canvass, wishing you'd thrown in your towels. Come on, raise your game. Atchoooo! Can I be sneezy please? Tom from St Alban's - welcome to the asylum for AKBs and their carers - if Badarse's message sounded a bit patronising, that's because he is. We're treating him for it but it takes time. Up the gunners!

  66. Badarse

    Jul 15, 2015, 8:29 #72840

    Morning Hiccup. Drawfism, eh? Now you know you are amongst my favourites and would welcome you to the 'bright' side any day, however I cannot support you on drawfism, I am afraid. I know only too well where that line has been drawn before. 'Lines in the dirt', The Siegfried Line, the Maginot Line, the washing line, and all let us down at one time or another, the latter dirtying my smalls and all those I have purloined from other washing lines over the years. However I am willing to do an 'Eric and Ernie' dance routine with you any time, but as I said to Johnny Cash once, I refuse to walk the line. I love the artists on this site, why it was said of Ron recently, 'He draws a good line-but never knows where to draw it!'. Time to line up the line-out, so here come de ball, and here come de judge!

  67. Westlower

    Jul 15, 2015, 8:26 #72839

    News breaking that reported Arsenal target William Carvalho will be out for 3 months after suffering a fractured tibia while playing for Portugal U-21's. Thomas Rosicky is another injured on International duty & will be absent for 5 weeks. Alexis Sanchez will miss the opening game(s) due to being on International duty with Chile. Non of the fore-mentioned injuries/absences can be blamed on AFC.

  68. Hiccup

    Jul 15, 2015, 7:10 #72838

    This site just gets worse. We have Jamie with his sexism and racism, and now we have drawfism? I just hope none of our midfield read these comments!

  69. Bob

    Jul 15, 2015, 6:48 #72837

    Surely this "fall from grace" is a non-story. The man is 32 in a few weeks and very few top strikers are still playing at the very highest level at that age. He peaked between 28-30, and is now in decline. What more is there to say, except it's the silly season so we need to try to find something to talk about

  70. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 15, 2015, 0:08 #72836

    I don't have a deluded following of people who believe what I say is true..so sayeth jeff wright along with the seven dwarfs, jj, Ron, muguiresbridge, hiccup, Exeter, mark from Aylesbury and Arseneknewbest. Surely a manager is allowed to promote his team and players and make predictions about an event or season? It doesn't mean we believe him as fans, we hope of course but who holds that against anyone, but jeff and his deluded followers of fashion. Kinky eh? You are entitled to your opinion, but what a load of tosh you do post. Onwards and upwards.

  71. Tom from St Albans

    Jul 14, 2015, 22:47 #72835

    Thanks Badarse. I have posted a couple of times before but generally I just read the gooner and the online gooner and very much enjoy reading the adticles, comments and posts including yours. It's the only Arsenal blog I read and think it's insightful, interesting, passionate and poetic. I know what you mean about the acrimonious feeling when something doesn't work out the way you thought it would, there is always the feeling of what if. Nicolas Anelka crossed my mind too when reading this, what if he had stayed and hadn't been lured into a 22m deal in the late 90s (which was a lot of money then and still is today) by his greedy brothers. I remember Wenger saying he looked Nicolas in the eye and asked him if if wanted to leave, Nicholas did not say yes. I have a mate who's a die hard Liverpool fan and he's got knots in his stomach over Raheem Sterling, you have to wonder what role models players have these days. I estimate Sterling will play at least 50 percent less at City than what he played at Anfield. I look forward to reading your comments this season Badarse and I'll try to comment more too...when I have time in between playing with and entertaining little Rambo!

  72. jeff wright

    Jul 14, 2015, 22:30 #72834

    Badarse, Colesyboy asked me to name what Arsene had said that was believed by some but proved to be untrue,so I mentioned a few things that he had claimed and that were believed by others to be true. There is a difference between saying that something COULD transpire,such as winning the league and claiming that it WILL happen,as Wenger did a couple of seasons back and which Colseyboy yourself and others believed to be true . Wenger obviously believed it himself but he was proven wrong. He tends to be a bit more cautious now with his predictions and that is the more sensible approach to take.At his age though he should have known better. As for my predictions as the actress said to the bishop ,some you win;some you lose. Then again I don't have a deluded following of people who believe what I say must be true .

  73. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 22:08 #72833

    A nice post Tom from St. Albans, have you posted before? I think acrimony felt towards any player who has fuel in the tank and leaves is a natural emotion. It is a knee jerk reaction, but the childlike sense of betrayal lingers, the same felt if a girlfriend dumps you and runs off with another. Irrational, but natural. It smarts a bit, but you quickly reason why and move on. Cole was a superb full back, but left under a cloud. Time and circumstance sometimes heals, sometimes not. I know from someone who knew him that he wasn't the brightest of types, but is a multi millionaire now, (we only have one of those posting on this website-westlower), so who am I to judge? Good choice of Ramsey on the shirt, what a lucky little chap to have a Dad with such awareness, ha ha. Good luck to you young Gun.

  74. Tom from St Albans

    Jul 14, 2015, 21:56 #72832

    Good article, I haven't had time to read all the comments so forgive me if I am repeating someone else's point. Robin leaving for Man U made me feel really really sick, born in 1980 my most passionate Arsenal years were when Arsenal and Man U had real battles with Keane and Vieira commanding the show. I hated Man U in the 90s, hate is a strong word but that is what I felt back then as a teenager. Robin isn't much younger than me and he must have known what he was letting himself in for. Do I blame him for leaving? No, there is a very good Argument that Wenger failed to provide him with players of his calibre so he decided to go. He wanted to win a medal and he did it. Just a real shame and very very sad that he had to do it at OT. You cannot say that Arsenal wouldn't have been serious contenders for the title if he had stayed with the Gunners for 1 more year. Very selfish of Fergie to retire after giving his word to Robin. There is no I in team. I think the Dutch Man U coach that went on to manage Fulham played an instrumental part in Robins move to OT. I just could not believe it when he went but in all honesty I could understand it, he did not believe in Wengerball anymore. I don't hate the guy, I would actually have him back at Arsenal but like someone commented he won't want to play as a sub so he has a better chance of regular 1st team football in Turkey. Good luck to him. Interesting you mentioned Ashley Cole, if you watch old footage of Ashley when he played for Arsenal he was so happy and almost always had a real smile on his face, like he was enjoying his football. He never smiled much at Chelsea, yes he had a good career but I think he knew deep down he could have become a real legend and possibly a future Captain at Arsenal. Bought my 21 month year old boy a shirt with Ramsay on the back, out of all the Arsenal squad I like him the best and because he turned down Man U for Arsenal! I hope he stays and I think he will.

  75. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 21:41 #72831

    Of course to balance that jeff, you have to factor in the requirements of being a PL football manager. Should you throw in the towel, proclaim that the season is over at any time? As far as aspirations are concerned it is the basic requirement surely, at least that's what we teach them at AKB Central Command. Even your judgements have been called into question occasionally-and look at the company you keep. Some have personal disabilities to overcome like maguiresbridge, dropped in the font at his own christening so always refuses water with his scotch. Long lasting impediments. How are the 'Tiller Girls' routines going in rehearsals? Here's a tip, separate Ron and jj in the line-up.

  76. jeff wright

    Jul 14, 2015, 21:19 #72830

    I would be here all night Colsie listing Arsene's claims ,the ones about the youth players would dominate football was believed by the AKB... FFP anyone> ? He claimed two years ago before before Xmas that we would win the league and you believed it along with others as I recall ,despite the previous collapses in recent times when we were in a position to push on and win the Prem. We are still awaiting a Champions League win 15 years after Arsene claimed he was sure he would win it to leave for a new manager to use for a bench-mark .Well the FA Cup is a bit easier act to follow I suppose... Good points Jamie about United but there are other GK's out there and a stronger midfield could help offer a bit more cover to the United defence .It's all roundabouts and swings .We should be looking at sorting out or own problems anyway and so far from what I can see they are not being sorted . Is big Olly going to improve or Danny Boy . Why is Arteta still with us,how long is a piece of string... and what odds are we to win the league, there are more questions than answers , but hey where Arsene is concerned ain't that always so!

  77. Westlower

    Jul 14, 2015, 21:16 #72829

    For a team that hasn't had a decent GK for yonks how come we only let in 13 goals in the final 19 games in the PL? Is it the Coquelin factor?

  78. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 21:14 #72828

    I know there is a roof on the stadium jeff. I even told you it was leaking but that another FA Cup win would cover up the problem. This is hilarious, who are these dim-witted AKBs? I am deeply suspicious because many sages on this site seem to know so many of them, what they think, how they vote, their personal failings, their inside leg measurements and whether they pick their noses or not. How come you all know so many? That seems very dodgy to me. maguiresbridge has come from his redeemer and is pointing towards the heavens-in the plural- with both arms and one leg, he overbalances, belches, is heard to curse, then sets himself against the four winds once more. What a balancing act, are you free for the Online Gooner Travelling Circus Troupe this summer? I hear him now, but why is he shouting 'Pluto! Pluto!' Possibly he is a fan of Disney. 24601 is it true you bought red velvet, fur-lined hoods for julesd's kestrels, as a birthday prezzie? Time to put the kettle on.

  79. Hiccup

    Jul 14, 2015, 21:08 #72827

    A lot of angst and frustration amongst the AKB's today? Getting themselves in such a tizz with other people's opinions? Maybe they should listen to their own advice and clear off down to arseblog if they can't hack it on here? Hopefully City and United won't acquire the players needed to challenge Chelsea, because we all know how it works. The teams above us achieve fewer points than the previous season, and they are deemed to be regressing. Arsenal also achieve fewer points, but are deemed as progressing? It's like that, and that's the way it is...

  80. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 14, 2015, 21:03 #72826

    jeff, please enlighten us all on the things he has claimed and that they believed to be true.

  81. jeff wright

    Jul 14, 2015, 20:29 #72825

    mg, if Arsene said there was a roof on the stadium then the AKB's would believe him, after all that is no more unreal than other things that he has claimed and that they believed to be true..... dear Jamie regarding other sides signings only time will tell if they are right or wrong . Anything else is speculation. My view on speculating about it is that United's ones already look on paper to have made them stronger with their midfield last season only clicking when Carrick played . So if these new stronger type players signings work ( not impossible this you know) then that must improve them and there was nothing much in it between us and Gaal's lot last term when they were without the new chappies . Chelsea and City both easily finished ahead of us in the league anyway over the 38 games. City swept past us to take second place on the run-in rather too easily for us to have any complaints about missing out on second spot or to believe that we were really better than them . So sticking with what we have and only signing Cech doesn't suggest to me that we are even a good thing to finish ahead of United and where is the improvement going to come from to do so over Chelsea and City >? Once again ( yawn) that is all based on the usual AKB optimism and talking up players who couldn't even make second place when it was laid on a plate for them . So nothing new new there then ! You couldn't make it up.

  82. Bard

    Jul 14, 2015, 20:17 #72824

    I suspect the aggro developing is the inevitable and wonderful prelude to the new season. I can feel an epic battle for 4th spot coming on. I read that we dont need anyone but the boss thinks that Sanchez will be out for Aug because he's knackered and Danny is still injured. The tightrope philosophy is now in operation. Chambers can play up front or even Monreal at a pinch. I do think we need to put in a good shift before Christmas otherwise it's difficult to raise ticket prices for the following season. Wenger's track record suggests that given availability he is way out of his comfort zone with the current transfer fees now being demanded. Sterling's move has raised the bar to another level. What's Jack worth ? Here's a punt Sell him and buy Cavanni

  83. CT Gooner

    Jul 14, 2015, 20:01 #72823

    @ Jamerson: as of today, I don't disagree with you. I don't think our rivals have signed players we'd put in our starting 11, except maybe Schneiderlin. Is he worth 24 mil, i'd say yes if he was identified as one of the players that would really improve our squad. I don't think that's the case though. The only exception I take to your point is we should set our own bar, not follow any one elses. If we're to be better than last year, we should be cutting the weak and upgrading them. If we're not going to do that, how about reducing the season ticket prices accordingly??

  84. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 14, 2015, 19:56 #72822

    Come on muguiresbridge, tell everyone why you despise the manager so much. We got the time so don't spare us any of your thoughts. We are all ears.

  85. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 14, 2015, 19:47 #72821

    jw, and as far as some are concerned all he has to do is stand in the centre circle with his arms pointed to the heavens and it'll be fixed.

  86. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 14, 2015, 18:36 #72820

    David, another good post, it's not debatable he still doesn't see it (just like his followers)and yes he's that lucky someone always pops up to save his arse.

  87. Westlower

    Jul 14, 2015, 18:21 #72819

    Heaven forbid we should employ a manager who believes in himself and his players. Overpaid he isn't, as he now earns about 20% less than Raheem Sterling, who is 1/25th of the Citeh squad. @JJ, Happy birthday you old son of a gun. Cherry brandy or green tea?

  88. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 14, 2015, 18:08 #72818

    Some fooking cracking posts on here in the lower half, take a bow Hiccup

  89. Man United Killer

    Jul 14, 2015, 17:59 #72817

    I say, Who the heck are we signing next? Anyone knows?

  90. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 14, 2015, 17:35 #72816

    jj, i'm quite sure you don't have to be told the self appointed wannabe philosopher isn't and doesn't speak for us all, indeed a very small few if anybody at all.

  91. jeff wright

    Jul 14, 2015, 17:05 #72815

    Badarse, project youth was always doomed to fail and many said so ( including myself) at the time ,so hindsight is not a factor when now those same people point out the folly of Wenger's project . Other factors though such as his weird stubborn insistence in keeping the hapless Almunia in goal for 5 years must also be taken account of when reviewing Wenger's tenure since the heady days of 2004 .Proving his critics wrong on it being possible to go unbeaten all season in the league would appear to have fuelled Wenger's belief in his own judgement and caused him to dismiss any criticisms of his policies as being those of fools who have never worked a day in football. C'est la vie !

  92. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 15:59 #72814

    CT Gooner, that was a genuine heartfelt rendition, and I admired it enormously. I cannot give you an answer except to trot out the old hackneyed phrase that this is the way AW decided to go. As I posted earlier hindsight is a marvellous thing in that it can show how things materially didn't happen as intended, or they followed a rough route and arrived at their destination. I knew someone who thought their dining table was too small for guests. Removed it and bought a larger one. Meanwhile in recognising there wasn't a spare bedroom for guests upped and sold the sofa for a put-u-up, which was really too big for the room. The table had to go. It went! A smaller one was purchased. Soon the put-u-up went because it limited movement in the sitting room/diner. The person went looking for an identical table to the last one. I have to stop this now because it brings back too painful memories. The gist is that sometimes you head off in a direction, the moving walkway moves, you adjust, it changes again, as do you and your decisions. The stadium move was necessary. If you accept that then the arrival of Abramovitch forced a change, financial collapses around the globe heaped more questions than answers on AFC. Project youth never produced all the goods but it was never intended to, it was a purposeful and bold strategy. A finger in the dyke job. There is no straight edge so perhaps JW, KG, HB, CA, and the others, (Fabregas?), proved a success in their own right. Buying and selling is a gamble. It is a dilemma in my grandson's schoolboy team. Those who have been around for ages but cannot quite cut it, new boys who show a bit, but enough to oust the older serving lads? Too many for any one position. Will those intending to sign change their respective minds. A constant headache. Then you run with what you have. I am sure all parents have a slightly different idea of where to place the apostrophe of intention in the squad. As AFC and the two billionaires spending to buy success, that would upset a few, myself included. We operate a form of double-think, don't be grubby and buy the riches, but hey a new major player is coming to sign. A tightrope of ethics. Personally I am comfortable that Arsenal will challenge for the title this season. I think we are the bridesmaid rather than the bride and it will be difficult to upstage CFC, but you know what? I will put a groat on us winning the title this year. Did you know a groat was equal to four pence? That old fourth thing again-but it was silver, and therefore a form of silverware!

  93. jeff wright

    Jul 14, 2015, 15:34 #72813

    Arsene is fixing a hole in the roof where the rain came in to stop his mind from wandering ... hang on though there is no roof on the Emirates *!

  94. CT Gooner

    Jul 14, 2015, 15:19 #72812

    I've always thought the arguement put forward about how much we spend is irrelevant. For me ait's about putting the best squad together that we can afford. That's where I think Wenger has failed, our squad has been weak physically and mentally, though perhaps not technically, and our tactics have been atrocious. We can bicker about ambition, but I feel Wenger lacks it as he doesn't seem to want to make us better. The last point I want to make about finances is our owners are two of the richest men in the world, end of. If they wanted us to win the spending award, we would. Where I'm going is I'm just left frustrated by the stewards of our great club. We are sooo close to being able to push for honours (beyond a FA cup), yet we won't make the final push. Our manager has to see we were short more than just a keeper last year, so why haven't we identified those players and signed them....

  95. Ron

    Jul 14, 2015, 15:18 #72811

    Hi Westie - the debate will rumble ceaselessly wont it re Wenger and the last decade etc. Not sure who will ever be proved closer to the truth. The profit margin you mention was i believe a media release. Never verified officially, though i might be mistaken. Wenger paid some lip service to the comment at best as i recall. Theres logic in what you say, but conversely theres logic in the view that the title was attainable in those difficult years from 05 to 09. There was no need for bank bursting fees to be paid for the players who the Club and Wenger actively pursued ie Alonso, Given etc. These guys might have made such as that 07/08 team into tile winners. We ll never know of course. There was clearly recognition that those players were needed yet a few million here and there being declined allowed those excellent players of that time to go elsewehere. Alonso is still a very good player! The reality is that Wenger was allowed to indulge himself with project youth instead. It appealed to his vanity seemingly as he clearly thought cheap and young, Wenger style was going to stymie Chelsea and Utd - see my own and Davids earlier posts as we try to make the point. His mission wasnt one solely of keeping the Club afloat via choppy waters as you say is the narrow view and ignores the reality of what the Club clearly thought was needed in terms of personnel., in my view his self indulgence aided and abetted by the Board and owner has created the schisms between Club and fans that we have today. The more financially astute of us said at the time trophies would be thinner on the ground once they shifted stadium, but the Clubs spin allowed the fans to believe that Utd's heels were there to be clipped far sooner. On balance your view on things as is mine really are half truths i suppose. Where we differ is at the point of decising where we go from here. Mine is that once the Club is stadia debt free, they wont invest in the team. When did Arsenal FC ever do that? Yours is a hopeful punt of thinking they will, though not to Chelsea and Citys level unless im mistaken? Personally i think also that Wenger has been too long away from the coal face of challenging for titles and that his age and longevity have stalled him anyway. An open cheque book now wouldn't bear the fruit of a title under his stewardship in my view. Unless his health falters he ll be there beyond 2017 too. I think your sentimentalism towards the man is ok, but that its defending the prospect of a future that isn't going to happen. AFC in its present guise are happy in the meadows, they dont want to go near the cliffs again. It gets cold and windy up there. That much to me is self evident and why should they we might ask? The cash rolls in. Mate - scored 14 on Sunday. Highest knock for 5 years Eat yr heart out Joe Root!!

  96. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 15:06 #72810

    The roof is leaking! Quick, win another FA Cup, that'll cover up the problem.

  97. jeff wright

    Jul 14, 2015, 14:42 #72809

    Those wages Ron being asked for by Sterling's agent would have put the mockers on any deal for us... quiet rightly so in his case I must add .This Sterling signing by City looks like one of those where having made their move public for him City were then forced by macho type reasons to sign him . Even though they knew they were being ripped off. From what I have seen of the lad with Liverpool and England I don't believe that there are any hidden facets that can be exploited there . He can look very good or very ordinary. Tbh I prefer our own AOC ,problem is that he is another hospital job constantly getting injuries and always needing games to get back to fitness only to then get injured again. A big problem this with some other players as well under Wenger for whatever reason, season after season... Welbeck is still out injured not just signing him on loan is looking like another big mistake and in my view replacing him with a goal scoring forward was more important than signing a GK ,not that I am against the signing of Cech, but as with Wenger winning FA Cups it is being used to cover for other problems.

  98. Westlower

    Jul 14, 2015, 14:25 #72808

    @David, You've overlooked the period when the decision was made to move to a new stadium. Wenger was targeted to achieve an annual profit of £15m to £20m. That necessitated selling our most valuable players & relying on introducing younger players into the first team. No, you're correct it didn't bring about a haul of trophies but that wasn't the priority. Keeping the club solvent was paramount. Continuing to qualify for the CL was a bonus. We're largely out of the mire now, although there remains a hefty debt still to be paid on the stadium but at last the monetary shackles are far less than they once were. We are still only 4th best in the financial stakes & that won't change anytime soon. Can we win the PL, darn right we can!

  99. Ron

    Jul 14, 2015, 14:10 #72807

    Glad we didn't contemplate Sterling Jeff. He s the embryo of the new Adebayor i venture. If he does OK, Real M will feel their leg being humped vigorously in 18 months time.

  100. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 14:01 #72806

    H: would you believe it?-Sid: Whassup now?-H: I give up. It's a waste of brain power just worrying about it all. I can feel my hair follicles taking the strain. At this rate I'll be bald soon.-Sid: Whassamatter with yer hair? Looks alright to me. Needs a bit more Brylcreem perhaps.-H: No Sid, it's not my hair. It's what's going on inside my head, it's the world.-Sid: The world? Inside your head?-H: Yes. Little Hancocks inside, hammering away. Too predictable mate. We know the milkman will be putting the milk bottles on the doorstep at 6.42am tomorrow morning, next door will pull his Daily Sketch through the letterbox at 7.15am. Mrs. Wobbling will struggle into her corset at 7,30am. Oh dear oh dear, all so predictable. Even sighing is a waste of energy. Think I should just go and lay down. Let life wash all over me. Give up Hancock, why don't you? Now it's raining out. I give up.-Sid: Give up on everything? Milkmen? Doorsteps?-H: Yes Sid, life mate. Last night I had a dream. Arsenal had won the PL and done it in style; none of this grubby, and scratchy play. No parking the charabanc. Just great free-passing movement. Expressions all over the pitch. True artistry mate. None of this peasant fayre. Just succulent expansive play, a la Wenger! It was sheer beauty. A joy to behold!-Sid: So whassyer problem? Sounds bloody fine to me.-H: Because it couldn't last mate. You achieve such standards. You scale such heights. Beyond the common man's expectations. It was doomed to slip away. We couldn't remain at the pinnacle, the zenith of footballing magnificence, we were doomed. The clock was ticking. The falling away. The worst time of all is when you actually achieve the objective mate. We may have stood on an equal platform with the gods, but we were destined to slip off mate. That's why I'm fed up. It just gets you down. I've got a headache now so I'm going for that lay down. Don't wake me!

  101. jeff wright

    Jul 14, 2015, 13:57 #72805

    Arsene already looks stressed out and under pressure on arriving in Singapore for some cash making friendly for Stan Arsene much preferred pre-season in Austria where he could wander around the hills dressed in lederhosen while enjoying the sound of cow-bells tinkling and the locals yodelling.... but here he is instead in steamy Asia facing the media fending off hippy crack sniffing Woj questions by claiming not to have spoken to him yet... if having a quick ciggie in the shower is a crime then this latest antic by the flaky Woj must constitute being a capital offence... Ozil off to Seria A claims with the little Turk not happy being played out of position by Arsene... non non sacre bleu! according to Arsene this is rubbish ,he is well chuffed with life at AFC and is a very good offensive player who is of course committed 100% to Arsene... whoops! sorry Arsenal... old Arsene looking thinner than ever also ruminated on the cash spent by the Manc clubs with the hippy crack whiffer Sterling signing by City coming in for his main attention ... yes a good top player claims Arsene ... City can afford him blah blah blah... but we never contemplated paying him 200k a week though to join us admits Arsene ... well he can't be wrong about everything ! United ... a touch of the worries here though regarding their signings and dosh spent ... but let's not forget that we paid 10m for Peter Cech so let's see who wins what ... anyone for cricket >?

  102. Made Up Stat

    Jul 14, 2015, 13:37 #72804

    Jamieson 09/07/15: 'A man only begins to be a man when he ceases to whine and revile'.

  103. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 13:14 #72803

    Jamerson, it looks like no back-tracking on the hunting law so I guess you shall have to continue hunting WOBs. AKBs buddies are 'good eggs'??!! Soufflés all around! I remember westlower telling me a long while ago-when we were sitting on the kerb, playing marbles in the dry dusty gutter, and he used his Aggie in a game of 'Keepsies'-that you could lead jj to water, but you couldn't make him wash...his socks!

  104. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 13:02 #72802

    AKB, that's never a problem if someone strays off piste, no monopoly-(damned capitalist game, ha ha), in fact I advocated and promoted the concept regularly. I actually find it interesting reading what others have done and where they have been, and your experiences too, so good for you. @ David I wasn't name-calling, (it's all about the nuances), I referred to the practise. Now let's celebrate together the commitment to the nuclear development programme by Iran.

  105. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 14, 2015, 12:15 #72801

    Jjet - Gooners who are Mets and Mets who are Gooners sound like thoroughly good eggs to me. I saw the orange and blue play all over the country when I lived stateside, and my signed Billy Wagner ball takes pride of place at home alongside my autographed photo from Rocky. Jamie - good try with the apostrophe in your latest offering but it's wrong again mate. Can't you get one of your slaves to teach you English?

  106. David

    Jul 14, 2015, 11:57 #72800

    Completely agree Ron - when someone starts calling you names like 'lazy'- you know, playground stuff - it's because they've run out of good arguments. Regardless, the end of 2008 was when it was clear that Project Youth needed an injection of a couple of big names - like Cantona going to Manure in '92. It was clear back then; it's just as clear now.

  107. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 14, 2015, 11:36 #72799

    AW is all about players who might/could be but not about players who really are...jj you really have a distorted view, or a view that suits your black tinted spectacles. There are more players developed by the manager than those that under achieved at this football club. When the dustmen come around your way, don't forget to put yourself out with the the trash.

  108. jjetplane

    Jul 14, 2015, 11:22 #72798

    Wenger is The Lazy One.

  109. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 11:17 #72797

    Hindsight is such a lazy ability, it basically means you have an eye up your bum. To all those exercising such startlingly observant comments-I'm watching you, so keep an eye out for me!

  110. Ron

    Jul 14, 2015, 11:10 #72796

    David - excellent summation of Wenger. As your post deals in truths though , lets all not be too proud to admit that many, if not most us fell for the 'project youth' ruse several yrs back. We really did think that Wenger still wore a magic hat and that Djourou Adeybayor Vela Denny Alliadiere Bendtner and Co would smite mortal blows upon Chelsea and Utd. As recently as 2007, we praised Wenger and his bravery and the heroism of his 'wonder kids' as we lost oh so heroically in the Carling Cup Final that yr. Like you David, i still think Wenger remains of the view that had he have kept them together glory would have followed. His ventures into the market since have all smacked of reluctance to have done so and of course there was the famed 2011 trolley dash. For me anyway, Wengers magic hat and his lost opportunity of leaving a legacy lies buried at Old Trafford, the funeral having been on that sad August day in 2011. There were about 4000 of us who sang his requiem for 20 mins after that game, still largely supportive of Wenger but knowing that his time had come and gone. We all have our opinions on his tenure now, but for me those of us who still think he can roll back the years are just basing such a view on nothing other than sentimentality and not cold reason. The Club has no real future in terms of titles under AW but it ll remain healthy in its state of comparative mediocrity.

  111. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 11:01 #72795

    Happy birthday, julesd. You are master of the house 24601, but not today. Red and Black denotes the true and negative AFC 'fans' on here...Red-the blood of angry men. Black-the dark of ages past. Red-a world about to dawn. Black-the night that ends at last! Perhaps unlike us, all those years ago, (sorry George you're not needed for this one), they never dreamed a dream. On this celebratory occasion I can but say...'Drink with me-to days gone by. To the life that used to be. Let the wine of friendship never run dry, (red wine!). At the shrine of friendship, never say die. Here's to you two, and here's to me'.

  112. jjetplane

    Jul 14, 2015, 10:26 #72794

    DAVID superbly put forward and totally the real history and not the silly armchair stuff that AKB operatives (covert/overt) spew out with reference to J Haynes now! Keep digging but the AKB president is firmly in 'the futures market' and top 4 until the seas rise will do nicely. So I share a birthday with JulesD? Where's yer sense of rebellion. Ignore WESTIE and join the WOBS. You will be happier with new targets and what lies beyond this corporate banality. Ohhh mexican burgers, sweet pot fries - I want my brunch! Have a good day. AKnewBEst - good deal of my family members are Mets/Gooners while the Italian side is Yankees and all in the NJ area with gooner matchdays in Hoboken which I have been to on occasions. Might add I am the only WOB in this set up but I told them all a decade ago AW has had his day. Have I really been proved wrong? I know he built the stadium and supplied the chicken and broccoli and probably did not sign Sanchez or even understand what Sanchez is. AW is all about players who might/could be but not about players who really are. Do da ****in' math!

  113. David

    Jul 14, 2015, 9:49 #72793

    Probably a bit too easy on AW. Of the early losses - Anelka, Overmars, Petit, and then Vieira, Henry - only Anelka really stung. Not because he achieved anything elsewhere, but because of what might have been had he stayed. The others had all achieved all that they could at Arsenal. There is a difference between that tranche and the post Highbury sell-offs, who have all, led by Cole, achieved more away from Arsenal than they did at the club. It was one of the main reasons that there was/is such a strong anti-AW feeling. He was chiefly responsible, but too stubborn/hubristic to pay the wages or buy even the odd big name to strengthen the side. He truly believed that those young players would be loyal and successful, and took too long to see that it wasn't working. It's debatable whether he sees it even now; Coquelin was a last resort, Ozil was a panic buy, and only Sanchez has saved his bacon. He used to know, as ArseneKnewBest makes clear.

  114. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 14, 2015, 9:41 #72792

    It obviously depends on which side of the fence you sit with regards to Jamerson and his postings. Pro Arsenal or anti Arsenal...as they say in America, you do the math.

  115. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 14, 2015, 9:08 #72791

    Badarse - it was an attempt at some parallel-universe-related humour if you will(as I'm sure you know). Sports fans' websites the world over probably aren't that different from our own. Or do you have a monopoly on here for cr*pping on about things non-Arsenal? Westlower - for someone as bigoted, yet also rich and sophisticated as your ally Jamie son, you'd think he would bother to use at least some grammar, wouldn't you? It was merely an attempt to highlight the lack of value in almost everything the execrable one writes. That's why I find it a bit curious that you akbs stick so closely to him. He isn't exactly a mental giant is he (despite his self-proclaimed wealth, good looks, philanthropy and casual racism)?

  116. Westlower

    Jul 14, 2015, 8:48 #72790

    Here's (is my grammar correct) some facts for Alsace, FJ & Man U lovers who frequent this site. History shows the PL title is out of reach for any club who finished outside the top 3 the previous season. This season Champions will be from Citeh, Chavs or AFC. Of course it's entirely possible this trend can be broken but I wouldn't put money on it happening this season. Leeds were the last successful team to win the old First division in 1992, the season after they finished 4th. @JJ, You underestimate yourself. Not only do I agree you're Twisted but you forgot your Bitter. Same again please Landlord. @Badarse, It's julesd b-day on Bastille Day. Do you hear the people sing? Am I still Master of the House? Who am I...? What's that chair doing at that empty table? One day more.....

  117. Alsace

    Jul 14, 2015, 8:28 #72789

    AKB's don't like facts. Here's another. The manager is now in pre season mode. He will not buy the players we need. We will come third or fourth next season as a result. Live in your fantasy world if you have to, I prefer the real one. BTW, I wish Wenger was on here arguing his case, rather than being in the job and not having to do so..

  118. Badarse

    Jul 14, 2015, 8:13 #72788

    AKB, Badass? Still have a bit of USA in there somewhere, eh, wonder where, perhaps the comment gives a clue? Then you muddy the water by giving an English lesson. Next you'll be trying to convince me that words change their meaning. As for Greaves saying that about Arsenal, it's well documented. Not so well known is that Fulham's greatest hero, Johhny Haynes, was desperate to come to Highbury and pleaded with Tom Whittaker to buy him for Arsenal. Mr. Whittaker in true Bard fashion refused as Haynes was under contract with another club, and, 'Arsenal do not do things like that'.

  119. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 14, 2015, 1:12 #72787

    Jokes, excellent post nothing else to be said, Joe S, spot on i'm sure RVP has no regrets whatsoever and I doubt he's worrying to much about what some Arsenal fans think of him, the only ones doing the worrying are the same fans themselves.

  120. Lord Froth

    Jul 14, 2015, 1:08 #72786

    Plenty of the players Wenger has sold over the last few years have won medals including the CL, which Arsenal have yet to win. This article seems like it's just designed to cover up the author's pain of rejection. On a personal note, when a player leaves Arsenal they are no longer one of ours and I don't give them a lot more thought. Most of the players mentioned in the article did not grow up as Arsenal fans so they are happy to win a medal with any other club as they would have been with us. If you've won medals and earned a good salary you can't be deemed a failure as it's not possible to know how their careers would have turned out had they stayed.

  121. jjetplane

    Jul 13, 2015, 23:36 #72785

    You tell 'em JAMERSON. Where is this Lane place you keep referring to. They still got that old sandy pitch there? Bet you liked old Greavsie though ....

  122. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 13, 2015, 23:32 #72784

    Jamie son - I'm bored and feeling benevolent towards you. So to help you in future, here's a quick grammar lesson on the use of apostrophes you muppet. Words like wobs and taches don't need apostrophes because they denote plurals, a bit like akbs, if you will. But where you use the term, "teams" to mean ...team is...then you are joining two words together in which case you should use an apostrophe. Are we clear? Christ mate, what were you doing at school?

  123. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 13, 2015, 23:04 #72783

    CT - nice one. Do you happen to know of any local-ish websites where I can have a moan about how the New York Mets have been run since 86, and how Terry Collins is even more inept that OGL? I dare say there'd be a guy called Queens Joe who ought to be a fan of the amazins but is actually a yankee, plus some other monosyllabic herberts who are blindly loyal to brand Mets. Oh, and there'd have to be a wind-bag called Badass of course. All I need now are some peanuts and crackerjack...

  124. Badarse

    Jul 13, 2015, 22:51 #72782

    CT Gooner, Bard is known as the Dark Lord, and not for nothing, the young women would oft proclaim back in the days of yore, 'When sun goes down, Bard comes up!' Meant absolutely nothing at all, like most of the negative posts on here. Second line goes, 'And Dark Lord doesn't celebrate winning the cup!' Now AKB lived in CT in DC in USA-oh, gawd. Night chaps...loved the repartee Bard and Hiccup, hope it didn't give you heartburn.

  125. CT Gooner

    Jul 13, 2015, 22:43 #72781

    For my sins I am in CT, summers much nicer than Islington though!! I wasn't sure if some one had stolen Bards moniker, or if the comedy was so dark I missed it! Obviously the later, I should have guessed since we usually are singing the same song.

  126. jjetplane

    Jul 13, 2015, 22:40 #72780

    Got to admit RON those AKBs are 'good for a laugh' Religion just has to be the new comedy. Even better when delivered by those who 'don't even go to church anymore' Pagans - well some of them. Glory Glory ... ... Nice defending Colesey - Baddie will have a straw with his .....

  127. Ron

    Jul 13, 2015, 22:20 #72779

    CT - Hiya. Bard and Hiccup in tandem on here takes some beating for laughs. Both as sardonic as the other and both p i s s takers supreme. Its great stuff.

  128. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 13, 2015, 22:19 #72778

    Ah jj so droll. Wouldn't know a community shield from an Emirates cup. What lower league tosh are you looking forward to watching? Your mate, jeff, will be pleased that your band of merry men will get their FA cup assault up and running at the beginning of the season. Then you can enjoy the hard work of the season to get to another round. As for Begovich being a better keeper than Cech, eh Ron....I totally disagree. Sitting on the Chelsea bench is his place, so how does that help? Finsbury still hasn't come up with a prognosis for his band of losers and what is in store for the upcoming season. Ask Hiccup maybe, he has all the sarcasm and jokes which might alleviate your pain. Badarse writes sense as does Westlower, but most on here can't see past their hatred of the running of Arsenal football club. Onwards and upwards.

  129. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 13, 2015, 22:03 #72777

    CT - It's irony. Are you based in Connecticut by any chance(hence the CT thing)? I just ask - nothing to do with that tired cliché about the US and irony I promise (I lived in DC for 5 years). And some of my favourite comedians are that side of the pond.

  130. CT Gooner

    Jul 13, 2015, 21:45 #72776

    @ Bard, I can't tell if you're being serious?? I won't respond to your comments in fear of misconstruing your point. As for Sonogo though, never should be any where near the shirt, a perfect example of OGL losing the plot...

  131. Hiccup

    Jul 13, 2015, 21:37 #72775

    Ah bard, you mention sanogo and I see he is off to Ajax on loan for a year. Great bit of work from Wenger! Under the guidance of bergkamp (who Wenger discovered and made), sanogo will come back the complete player and help us retain our title in 2017. If by some slim chance he comes back the crap player he is, and we persevere for another 10 years with him on £80/k week, then when we offload him to Watford, Wenger will still get great praise for the skill of offloading dross? Wenger can do no wrong. No goalkeeper for ten years, but great work signing Cech. The more he neglects something, the more praise that gets heaped on him?

  132. Hiccup

    Jul 13, 2015, 21:22 #72774

    Hi bard. I do actually get behind the lads. I support the lads more than the AKB's. When our players demand more pay, I fully support them. I want the club to give in to their demands. I was so happy for bendtner when he got his £52k/week pay. You pay the players well, and they remain loyal. Bendtner is a classic example of such a player who gave us his best years. He only left when Wenger decided to move him on after we'd got the best of him. Great stuff from Wenger. Had we took the same approach with RVP, Nasri, Cole etc, they would have stayed. But these players get slagged off now. I bet they wouldn't have been slagged off as mercenaries had they stayed and the club paid them the wages they got elsewhere. The next time some big shot demands more pay at arsenal, I'll be backing him. Unlike the fickle AKB's that'll find it disgusting. I actually blame the AKB's for RVP leaving. Had they supported a large pay rise which was needed, he would have stayed!

  133. jjetplane

    Jul 13, 2015, 21:11 #72773

    I wonder if Chelski already had that GK deal in the bag before they off loaded a past it goalie to the oh so astute Arsene Wenger. French toast anyone and Wolfsburg haven't even kicked a ball yet. Attack! Attack! ......! .......! Attack! Think you will find JAMERsON that players go to Man U to win things and go to Arsenal to put themselves in the window. Do I see Ozil and Sanchez looking for a move after the Carlton Cup jollies. Twisted - that's me Grrrrrrr .....

  134. Bard

    Jul 13, 2015, 20:40 #72772

    Hiccup, youre cynical and not a proper Arsenal fan. You dont get behind the lads or go to away games in Istanbul. I have personally seen Wenger turn a pigs ear into a silk purse. He is currently doing it with Sanogo who will be the new Anelka. Why dont you f*** down the lane. And furthermore you cant recognise that we are taking the long view , in a 100 years Abramovich no longer be with us and where will Chelsea be then.

  135. Badarse

    Jul 13, 2015, 20:31 #72771

    FJ have just learned that Hugo Lloris has fractured his wrist-there goes your Europa cup place this season, relegation fears at Xmas?

  136. jjetplane

    Jul 13, 2015, 20:02 #72770

    And your plastic point one game a season man? Good old Wolfsburg. Hope you're gonna have a beer with Colsey. He likes you .....

  137. Hiccup

    Jul 13, 2015, 19:47 #72769

    Hi Ron. There's a few on here that can't think for themselves. If we buy Schneiderlin, wenger's done a smart bit of business. We don't buy him, and wenger's too astute to pay that money. We buy schweinsteiger, its a good bit of business for someone 31 who still has plenty to offer. We don't buy him, and Wenger is sensible to steer clear and United are mugs. Take ozil for instance. Had we not bought him, the usual suspects would have been praising Wenger at the time for steering clear; £42m is far too excessive. But we pull the cheque book out and it's great business. I can see why the AKB's are termed sheep. And the biggest laugh that they come out with, is anyone anti Wenger gets their opinion from the media? This is the same media that's been harping the same crap as the AKB's that wenger's been over achieving for the last ten years?

  138. Badarse

    Jul 13, 2015, 19:42 #72768

    jj why do you want to be so spiteful and ratty all of the time? All you do is try to tear people and things down, and fail miserably every single time. In a hall you would slowly find yourself alone and snivelling until someone walked over and poked you in the eye. You have no platform chum, apart from an imaginary soapbox-which has no soap in it. Ok we get you don't like big corporations-the modern world is full of them, and soon within two decades there will be more when India, China, Brazil, and Africa begin to flex. You don't like USA influence but it could be Russian or whatever nation holds the best hand. You don't like the professionals, lesser leagues are pale imitations of the big boys-I even see it blossoming at schoolboy level, if you and others stopped living in the past like the dinosaurs you are, opened your eyes and learned to live you might become a lager man rather than a bitter man. You don't like what Arsenal have become-so what? You don't like the manager-big deal! You never go to the Arsenal, and insist you never will again-who cares? Yet you want to try to bite little bits off people like myself because I'm taking my grandsons to the Emirates Cup-are you for real? Now take the fishing hook out of your lip, bake your pizza, mend your puncture, and sit drooling over the large poster of Simon Cowell-and no one will mind, I promise...because no one cares.

  139. jeff wright

    Jul 13, 2015, 19:37 #72767

    In the meantime Silent Stan has more important things occupying him than financing a title challenge by us this season. Such as the proposed $1.8 billion 80,000 seat NFL stadium in Inglewood that he is cobbling the cash together to build .Stan only sees us as being a source of cash to help him out with his state-side franchises that are the real heart of his empire .We are just a sideshow to him and this contrasts sharply with the more ambitious aims to win top trophies that is shown by the owners of Chelsea,City and United. Wenger knows this of course but the 8m a year wages and his bullet proof position long ago sated any desire by him to shake things up and he continues to just tread water like a performing Sea Lion while balancing a ball on it's head. Yawn.

  140. jjetplane

    Jul 13, 2015, 19:17 #72766

    Wayhay! WESTIE still fighting the good fight with the spuds 20 years after it fizzled out. The amount of times I imagine dear old WESTIE has attended an Arsenal game in the last decade gives him honorary WOB status. I make FJ a bigger gooner with his sensible approach to this 'let's make it another top 4 decade' for the fans .... I know why most people on here do not go to the Wok. What is your excuse WESTIE? That Maureen is a bit naughty with his jokers and Westie must be fuming of talk that Man Utd are simply a bigger and more sucessful club!

  141. jeff wright

    Jul 13, 2015, 17:15 #72764

    Early doors results will determine if there is another late 'panic buy'on the final day of the window. Last time it was Danny Boy who popped up much to the consternation of many waiting outside the coliseum for news of transfers who had cheered when Sky reported that Ivan had dismissed reports that we were signing the United flop . Ivan speak with forked tongue though as we well know and before you knew it Danny was signed up and as happy as Larry knowing that he did not have to try and win titles by scoring loads of goals ! Something that he had struggled to do at United. To be fair to Wenger though it looks most likely that the decision to sign Danny ,as was also the case with the dud 42m Turk who is valued now at a more realistic 24m , was taken by Stan on advice from others after poor opening day results. So unless Bilic's 'Ammers can cause an upset in this season's opener then I would expect it to be a case of steady as she goes skipper with the ex-Chelsea goalie being expected to help Arsene to walk on water and perform other miracles against the top sides who will have all made significant signings to help them in their quest for glory.

  142. CT Gooner

    Jul 13, 2015, 17:13 #72763

    Very interesting debate. Starts off trying to rewrite the RvP saga and then moves into validating why he left in the first place, namely lack of ambition. Lke I said the other day, we've spent nothing this summer, and that's despite the fact we were 15 points off the winners and are watching our competition reload. I must say I feel pretty vindicated refusing season tickets a couple of weeks before RvP spilled the beans on what was going on behind the scenes at our beloved club, and the fact the ownership have seen us as an ATM ever since.

  143. Ron

    Jul 13, 2015, 17:06 #72762

    Hiccup - Brilliant. Youre such a funny poster mate. Yr point made in jest though is exactly how they at AFC actually think!! The fans must make their choice. Do they want it and are they happy with it or not? Once the choice is made, its far better.

  144. Westlower

    Jul 13, 2015, 16:53 #72761

    What we need is a DM a notch above Schneiderlin & a few years younger than Schweinsteiger. Step forward Francis Coquelin. Schneiderlin has been assessed and rejected as not worth the asking price. For those of you panicking that Father Christmas hasn't left us any new toys, the transfer window doesn't close until August 31st. For wheeler dealer Daniel Levy it never closes. Milton Keynes Hotspurs, has a certain ring to it, especially as a homeless championship club?

  145. Hiccup

    Jul 13, 2015, 16:39 #72760

    I must ask for calm, please! Ignore what United and City are doing. They are different entities to us with different aspirations, such as chasing the title. Let them blow money chasing dreams. After all, the odds dictate that not both can win it, so therefore one is wasting their money. Add Chelsea in to the equation, who have a 3 in 7 chance of not winning it, which leaves a 4 in 7 chance of someone else winning it, and it's then that you realise with all these odds flying around, we're in a much better position as a club not getting involved in all this shenanigans of wanting to win the league. This chilled out approach of 3rd or 4th is much better for the mind and soul. We haven't been this well prepared for our assault on a top 4 place in years. Let's be happy with that, and if we finish with less points again than last season, we can once again point to further progress in the kpi. All is calm, all is bright...

  146. Ron

    Jul 13, 2015, 16:32 #72759

    Danny - personally if AW isnt sure about whether Schneiderlin is really good calibre for the price then i can understand it. He seems a bit over rated to me. No loss really. Im more alarmed by the fact that Chelsea have sold us a Keeper who isn't anything like what he was and gone and bought a better option as their back up. I d have loved us to have signed Begovitch. Big, athletic, agile, brave and hes hungry to better himself. We ve missed out there i fear. AFC have been blinded by the bigger name, not the better keeper i feel.

  147. Danny

    Jul 13, 2015, 16:01 #72758

    Arsenal are getting left behind. Wenger and his yank friends need to go as he is holding this club back. We needed Schneiderlin and him going to United will hit u sin the ass

  148. Finsbury Joe

    Jul 13, 2015, 15:53 #72757

    Very depressing. Chelsea are already out of sight. Judging by reports of signings today, Utd and City are heading off into the distance. Liverpool are doing a comprehensive rebuild with some excellent signings, with more to come. We all know what Wenger will do.

  149. Badarse

    Jul 13, 2015, 14:14 #72756

    I did say two or three weeks ago-when a feeding frenzy was taking place about Jack leaving-that Jack wasn't going anywhere. Ever the one to be strictly correct-learned this from E/G-I can tell you Jack has gone to Singapore. Later he will no doubt go to the toilet, then later still will go to bed.

  150. Badarse

    Jul 13, 2015, 12:41 #72755

    As usual Seven Kings Gooner, respect! Hi radfordkennedy, you just got a hole in one.

  151. jeff wright

    Jul 13, 2015, 12:12 #72754

    Oh dear, what a miserable defence for Arsene that has been put up by the usual suspects, regarding the fact that the only players'nurtured ' by Arsene to have won league titles and Euro Cups since the move to the Emirates Stadium have had to leave there and go elsewhere to win them. It's laughable really how the not so long ago despised by Arsene 4th place is the first trophy FAC is now the crown jewel of football . If we don't get out of the group stage of the mid-week Euro bore-fest then no doubt the Capital One Cup will suddenly become a 'major trophy'. Jack claimed after the last FAC win and his now routine 'what are sp*rs ?! rant to the crowd celebrating another FAC win that 'we worked hard all season to win a trophy'. Someone should point out to him that the FAC doesn't start for top sides until half way through the league season! No title challenge by Arsene since 2004 suggests that a bit more 'hard work'is required on that aspect of things with Wenger's contrived manic celebrations on winning FA Cups after 20 years in the job at AFC making him look like the hollow man.Admittedly though these celebs are a step up on the ones following his winning of the 4th place trophy on the last day of the season at Newcastle a couple of years ago. You couldn't make it up.

  152. Westlower

    Jul 13, 2015, 11:49 #72753

    @Finsbury Joe, You should address your missive about leaving a sinking ship to JJ as he was one of the forerunners of disloyal rats jumping ship. As for your club, they really haven't had a boat that floated for 55 years have they? It must be 50/50 if moving house will bankrupt your little village team. Forever in our shadow, onwards & upwards AFC.

  153. Ron

    Jul 13, 2015, 11:42 #72752

    Probably true FJ re Sanchez, however its much to the Spurs fans chagrin that we never seem to 'sink' very far do we! It must eat up the N17 fans like a flesh eating virus. Im sure that's why a visit to WHL on derby day is such a vile experience for AFC fans in the main. Im sure the anthropologists amongst us would love a day out there, esp on a day when Tottenham are turned over. Its truly a sickening place to be some times.

  154. Finsbury Joe

    Jul 13, 2015, 11:28 #72751

    RVP is not the first and wont be the last to leave a sinking ship. Just watch Alexis in I would guess about a years time as Wenger yet again stifles ambition to keep his fave players and backroom staff happy. Not sure the new keeper is going to be too happy either when he realises Peyton will be the only senior goalkeeping coach at the club. Wenger puts money first, a close second comes loyalty to staff, the more they underachieve, the more loyal he is to them. Still, I guess he can sleep sure in the knowledge that nobody is going to headhunt the likes of Gerry Peyton, Neil Banfield or an emasculated Steve Bould. The true fans should be up in arms

  155. Ron

    Jul 13, 2015, 11:24 #72750

    The reality is that if any player has the chance to join Man Utd, they go and join them if they can. Many fans for some irrational reason find this quite galling. RVP was fortunate as Utd were really the only ones at the time who wanted to pay the premium uplift on price to buy him. It was brave by Fergie to chance his arm on him. In British football, to play for them is the pinnacle of any career on these shores. We all know this deep down however much we choose to dislike them. RVP just chose to window dress his move in his own way and it didn't really work did it. He would have earned far more respect had he have just said, they've offered him a great package and that at nearly 30 yrs of age wanted to maximise his last years here by trying to win a a title whilst being sad to leave. I cant really see why foreign players here choose to try and 'soften the ground' for the fans benefit. They've no deep seated loyalty to any Club here and for my part, i don't expect them to have any. They're just working blokes who've gone abroad to earn a living the same as i and millions of others did and do, the main difference being they have a very short shelf life to maximise their rewards. He ll do well in Turkey. Good luck to him. He wouldn't have been envisaging much more than 2 or 3 yrs at Old Trafford anyway given his age when he joined and lets not forget, the main person who would have knowledge of the longevity of his underlying state of health was RVP himself.

  156. jjetplane

    Jul 13, 2015, 11:14 #72749

    JOKES you got AKB central on high level spin alert (HLSA). WOB a few more at them. Stirling Stuff!

  157. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jul 13, 2015, 11:06 #72748

    Badarse - Point taken, I'll re-phrase, he got fit and then saw through the smoke and mirrors!

  158. radfordkennedy

    Jul 13, 2015, 10:38 #72746

    Morning all,are we not over complicating the rvp story a wee bit,if someone calls you and says I'll pay you a million a month you go as simple as that.citing the yearning for medals is no more than a convenient smoke screen,I can't honestly remember anyone taking a pay cut to leave us in pursuit of glory.

  159. Badarse

    Jul 13, 2015, 9:36 #72745

    Seven Kings Gooner that is obviously your view, and respected of course, I happen to think there were other factors involved as with most things. I can retell any personal experience by omitting some facets of decision-making, add emphasis here or there and present a totally different picture, depending on my audience. Just one thing though, he saw through that old 'smoke and mirrors' illusion quicker than most...what 8 years? Perhaps you are right in that he did many years before, however as a constantly injured player still getting his big bucks and constant care from the club just chose to gaze fondly into the mirrors and let the smoke waft around his head. Don't believe that though, just an example of how rewriting is done.

  160. Mark from aylesbury

    Jul 13, 2015, 9:30 #72744

    The mystery to me was what was said in that long conversation between Fergie and Wenger. Fergie referred to this as the reason for RVP leaving. Did Fergie tell Wenger he was going? Certainly RVP appeared shocked and it could be why Wenger was prepared to ride out a wave of critiscm. I felt at the time we looked small selling him on. The one giggle I had was RVP desperately trying to cosy up to Van Gaal and failing miserably. Overall wish him well in Turkey.

  161. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jul 13, 2015, 8:20 #72743

    RVP wanted some medals and that is why he left us and proved his point scoring some fine goals for Utd. Other players left for City and won titles and again proved their point. All that has happened to RVP is that he has turned 31 and he is not VG signing. One thing that RVP will get is phenomenal partisan support and I wish him well, he saw through the smoke and mirrors at AFC quicker than most.

  162. Westlower

    Jul 13, 2015, 8:08 #72742

    The Raheem Sterling deal is a reality check for every other club in the PL. £45m up front, of which QPR receive £9m as a 20% sell on clause. Another £4m in add-ons + agents fees of £?m + reported wages of £10m+ per year. Wow, a £100m player who may become a bench warmer, aka, Adam Johnson & Scott Sinclair. Yet again Citeh have raised the financial bar even higher, due in part to the premium that now has to be paid to secure 'home grown' players. Thankfully Arsene saw this coming & has already secured out quota of 'home grown' players. AKB.

  163. Badarse

    Jul 13, 2015, 7:09 #72741

    jokes-nowt? Very Mancunian, our kid. Your view is fair enough but hinges on RvP winning the title-would the argument still be valid had he failed, eh, if, see?

  164. julesd

    Jul 13, 2015, 5:32 #72740

    @Jokes, What was the name of the coach who nurtured RVP, Nasri, Clichy, Song, Cesc, et al into becoming the players they are/were.

  165. Jokes

    Jul 13, 2015, 2:38 #72739

    RVP won a league title and played for the best manager to have graced club football in England (possibly Europe). If he'd stayed at Arsenal he would never have got near a PL medal. Objective achieved for RVP. If it was FA Cup triumphs he wanted, he coulda joined Wigan right? Lol... How pathetic that years after he left us, won a PL etc...our pathetic fans are still sooo bitter they write nonsense articles about him. He plays at ManYoo and left for Fenerbahce. Nowt to do with Arsenal. Nasri left and won 2 PL trophies (not even mentioning other domestic stuff), as did Clichy. Fabregas seemed to do ok in England last season no? 8 years under AW and nowhere near a title. Plays with Jose for less than a year, and wins the title. Oh dear Arsene.

  166. Cyril

    Jul 13, 2015, 1:55 #72738

    Joe s, can't sleep - i love arteta, but he loves a square pass! Everything in his world is square. When he retires, ensure his bus pass is .... !

  167. Ricky

    Jul 13, 2015, 0:47 #72737

    The only thing wrong with the RVP sale to ManU was not taking Berbatov the other way. RVP had 2 good seasons, his last with Arsenal and his first with ManU. Well there was one more thing wrong with the RVP sale... Our second best player at the time, Alexander Song, went to Barcelona. The only sale I regret AW ever making was Glen to Barca. And AW should have brought both Fabregas and Song back last season... if only as stop-gaps.

  168. Joe S.

    Jul 13, 2015, 0:45 #72736

    It looks like the RVP issue has been done to death, so what's my two cents worth. I think he did the right thing leaving Arsenal when he did and I'm sure he has no regrets.The situation at Arsenal was woeful and he stood up but was told to take it or leave. Most employees with the power to affect their on futures would thus have walked away and done the same. Only some lame AKBs would continue to insist on hissing and booing whenever his name is mentioned.So Goodbye RVP, you were a special one who Giroud will never be able to replace for all his huffing and puffing. Had you had the patience to hang around you may or may not have played with Sanchez, however the cash from your transfer was badly needed, so in the end you were simply another commodity something which the AKBs will never accept. Speaking of, as the transfer market unfolds and only the dregs are left behind we can rest comfortably knowing that Wegner is going to place his faith in Arteta being a new signing.So much do I know about football. Wasn't he slow and horribly ineffective with the ball the last time he palayed in the EPL? I'm certain that with Arteta in the team Arsenal would never have played the fast edged cutting football that thrilled all non Villa fans in the FA cup final.

  169. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 23:41 #72735

    Of course RvP's rate per week of just shy of a quarter of a million had no bearing on his decision. It was all about satisfying that drive for achieving a PL medal. Tosh! Of course that was a big factor but he wouldn't have gone for a £50k wage cut. Be real-at least temper the black and white tuning button...all shades of grey, and many more than fifty. goonercolesyboy I am drinking a virtual pint of London Pride to you right now. Well done jj. Big Bang my grandson's favourite. I identify with Sheldon, no one understands him, and he certainly wouldn't understand me! Hiccup good to have you around, even a quantum physics around. Put that way it sounds a bit daft it's true. I just think we began to find our way towards the close of the season as Man C began to lose their way. They had enough in the tank to find a spurt as we hit the wall with the Cup Final looming. I anticipate both sides taking up where they left off, hence my controlled assessment. Of course it could all be baloney, but if it proves to be the case you can eat it, as us veggies have to make do with vegetable dhansaks. Optimism my friend, in a world that's dying I have buckets of the stuff.

  170. Cyril

    Jul 12, 2015, 23:27 #72734

    Hi Ron, excuse my ignorance, hope your well. Maguire, thanks for the acknowledgement. Will never forget rvp performance against soton, October 2004. I was there, we were still on an unbeaten run. I had a great seat at front of east stand. We are 2 1 down and pressing like you wouldn't believe. Rvp is every effing where trying to get the winner. We are willing him on and he pops up at the far post in 90th minute to get the equaliser. He comes flying over to us nearly crying you know! He kept the run going. He bloody loved arsenal and I won't have a bad word ....

  171. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 12, 2015, 22:26 #72733

    FInsbury, you are a laugh mate. Your club's lack of trophies should be something you need to write about rather than ours. You haven't had a manager to write about for as long as I can remember. Bale had to leave to win something worthwhile, as did Modric. You buy crap players, only Eriksson is any good and now your mettle will be tested with your new sh*t bowl being built until 2019. Post something in response and let's hear your plans for the future.

  172. Finsbury Joe

    Jul 12, 2015, 22:09 #72732

    Success in football is measured in trophies. count the trophies of those who have left and you realise RVP, Cesc , Nasri and others have done, and,in some cases are doing completely the right thing. Those on the inside, in contrast to deluded AKBs know what a shambles Arsenal , it's board and manager really are. RVP waited patiently for trophies , as did others. But a day at Wembley told them all they needed to know, and it was soon confirmed on a day at Old Trafford. Some of the ex players may be sold to so called lesser teams, but many have had their day in the sun , away from Arsenal, they will harbour no regrets, as Cesc showed when he rejected Arsenal for Chelsea. Arsenal are third in London when it comes to ambitions just read all about it. Times are changing. It pains me to say it, but for the sake of their careers, I hope the likes of Sanchez and Ramsey show the courage of RVP and join a club with true ambition. The dross of course will stay, and they and Wenger will be happy.

  173. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 12, 2015, 21:56 #72731

    Man United Killer, yes indeed they do that's all that matters to the majority of them, what medals they have to show at the end of their career, not what teams they played for and won nothing, and in RVP's case he knew his was winding down and he made the beat decision at the time and so it proved.

  174. Hiccup

    Jul 12, 2015, 21:50 #72730

    Hi baddie. Of course City are desperate? They finished a whopping 8 points behind Chelsea! Meanwhile, arsenal, happy to plod 12 points back, are good to go?

  175. jjetplane

    Jul 12, 2015, 21:46 #72729

    WESTIE we got Wormley Utd and Dorking have pulled out. This is the season mate for getting to the 8th tier - none of that top four stagnation for us true footer romantics. Sterling is **** but you don't really have that much faith in your Fun Boy 3? Be brave about it. Talking of it seems The lunatics are still running the asylum/ghostown Still on the green tea mucka though a glass of room temp soda water always works a treat. Rounders Baddie - won a school match single handed at the age of 10. My only sporting glory. Did I ever tell of my foray into the 11th dimension. Made it to the 9th tier. Big bang!

  176. goonercolesyboy

    Jul 12, 2015, 21:44 #72728

    Badarse and Westlower, it would be a pleasure to meet you guys for a beer at Wembley before the community shield.

  177. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 21:36 #72727

    In a sensible market westlower I would pitch those three musketeers at between £20-25 million each, however being English puts an extra £5 million plus on each. It shows how desperate Man C are, especially as I would put Sterling at number four in that group.

  178. Westlower

    Jul 12, 2015, 21:25 #72726

    @JJ, So you believe Sterling is worth £9m more than Theo, Jack @ Ox combined? Spending too much time watching 9th tier football has warped your lousy judgement. Cherry brandy anyone?

  179. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 12, 2015, 21:20 #72725

    jj, Novak was brutal and it was all down to wenger.

  180. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 20:56 #72724

    Aargh! I mention maguiresbridge and he crawls out from under the bed, with a mouthful of fluff! What is happening? The Blue Moany word for the day seems to be 'ditherer'. Does it mean 'speak here'? I remember Jimmy Clitheroe-the Clitheroe Kid.

  181. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 12, 2015, 20:53 #72723

    Cyril, well said post of the day, and good one yourself to Ron

  182. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 12, 2015, 20:38 #72722

    And think what might have been if Fergie hadn't retired and built yet another team (with VP)while our excuse for a manager dithered for the umpteenth time.

  183. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jul 12, 2015, 20:26 #72721

    To every Arsenal's fans frustration? what makes you think that? I remember a lot including myself saying good luck to him, and good luck to him now, a fall from grace yes, i'm sure most of our team would swap their FA Cup medal/medals for a prem one, well RVP has one, they haven't and not likely to get one any time soon with this manager in charge, or a CL one either no matter how many extra years in it.

  184. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 20:24 #72720

    The left one is the dodgy one jj-the other one is all right though. Still suffering from Friday's training session. Funny how we may concur on some things, but whisper it quietly, jeff would only get a complex. 49 million pounds Sterling...how much is that in drachmas? We had a picnic in the park today and played family Rounders. My young grandson decided we were playing 'quantum physics rounders'-he placed numerous bases randomly, and we were allowed to run in any direction, and at any time we thought fitting. I reckon Hiccup would be a master at this-maguiresbridge would do the post match interview, but being a Sunday it could be a case of overload. Bream in my cup, spotty!

  185. jjetplane

    Jul 12, 2015, 20:04 #72719

    BADDIE you are a funny old bean. Just pulling your artificial leg mate. The left one! I think the gentrification of all things Arsenal has now spread to this site so gentlemen - no politics but in that list of slave owners just published by the filty leftist Auntie BBC I do believe ...... is on it. Oh Sugar/..... Talking of slaves, there's this man in a shed .....

  186. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 19:54 #72718

    Hello jeff, sorry I was delayed holding Roger's balls at Wimbledon. jj you are such a children, (another Turkish friend used this terminology), you believe because I bigged up Federer you have somehow claimed a victory over me in his defeat. I happen to think Novak is arguably the most complete tennis winning machine ever-love him to bits too. Gotcha! jeff, much of what you say has credence, however it is your spin. Unsubstantiated piffle might best describe it. Do you think an agent who couldn't do a deal with AW would give him a laurel wreath? You denounce AW because of his ego-will that complaint ever be laid at your door? You even manage to work in a compliment for Maureen. ArseneKB, we stand as both having posts deleted. Funny kind of unity, don't you think? Think mine roughly said the same as your post, though I did use punctuation! Incidentally as most are right wing in this country so too are most of my friends. They generally are amongst the best of people too. If only we, (sorry that the 'we' may confuse you jj), had a good right winger, (isn't that a non sequitur?)

  187. Bard

    Jul 12, 2015, 19:34 #72717

    Westie; too right. City have just spunked the best part of £100m ( transfer plus wages) on a kid, unbelievable. Welcome to a new game. Poor old Wenger must be giving him sleepless nights.

  188. Hiccup

    Jul 12, 2015, 19:33 #72716

    Very disappointed with Federer and Edberg's post match reactions. Far too gracious in defeat. Gone down in my estimation. Would much rather hear he was unfortunate to lose. Blame the umpire, the weather, the ball boys, hawkeye, anything but admit you were second best. You'll be far more respected for it. Say it after every defeat and people even start to believe such excuses. Hope to see an improvement in the post match interviews at the US Open.

  189. jjetplane

    Jul 12, 2015, 19:25 #72715

    JAMErsON has obviously spent the afternoon in the shed with a bottle of cheap brandy. Is the bar maid still sleeping in the shed? Handy earner that. So what is it? Runners up, first or another swig of supermarket brand? WESTIE Stirling is rubbish out on his own but as a job lot the three you mention could go to The Hammers or Newcastle for about 40m. What is your actual position at the club apart from the red blazer and the occasional 'sacrifice'? Good old Novak - certainly gave it to the old boy. Now this Cech transfer and age meaning nothing ....

  190. Westlower

    Jul 12, 2015, 18:56 #72714

    Citeh paying £49m for Sterling, how much are our English stars Theo, Jack & Ox worth?

  191. Jason B

    Jul 12, 2015, 18:49 #72713

    If the press reports are to be believed, Arturo Vidal was supposedly going to sign after Copa America. Now I read he's heading to United. With no-one else appearing to be linked to a move,it looks as if our budget was blown on Cech and new contracts for Arteta and Rosicky.Both are too old and injury prone to be on the bench,let alone picked for the first team.Should've been moved on for younger talent.

  192. jjetplane

    Jul 12, 2015, 18:42 #72712

    Novak was totally brutal (love the guy) and Roger was a bit tippy tappy and not up for the fight. Anyway, Arsenal look good to go .....

  193. Amootie

    Jul 12, 2015, 18:11 #72711

    he lacked patience for Arsenal and wanted it so he is the one to blame.

  194. Edmund

    Jul 12, 2015, 16:20 #72710

    RvP could have won several scudettos with Juve but instead chose Manure. The fact that he chose Turkey suggests he has lost confidence. RIP RvP.

  195. Mikeymike

    Jul 12, 2015, 15:48 #72709

    I always thought that the RvP deal was good in the short term for United, better in the long term for us. However, even I am surprised by the speed of his fall from grace. Him being shipped out like that, at that speed, with so little angst shown by United fans (now, the best judges of his recent performances) - if only the Germans had a word for this that I could spell.

  196. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 12, 2015, 14:56 #72708

    Jamie son - The misanthrope doth protest too much. Ouch Jeff, that's me told. I think I prefer your impostor.

  197. jeff wright

    Jul 12, 2015, 14:43 #72707

    Arseneknewbest, well this is hardly a case for Inspector Morse, my comment about a 'one liner post' could be a clue !

  198. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 12, 2015, 14:18 #72706

    Jeff & Badarsio - I suspect someone might have been using your moniker yesterday Jeff because I also saw a post in which "you" said that socialists were ditherers. I challenged "you" rather strongly and said (as you have today) that Corbyn was an example of a socialist and a non-ditherer. But that many of the stooges in the Lab Party are about as left-wing as the execrable Jamie. My reply was deleted, presumably because it was a little political...So it looks as if you may have an impersonator. Now, getting out my meerschaum and deerstalker, who could it be who comes on here and likes to wind people up I wonder...

  199. Westlower

    Jul 12, 2015, 14:04 #72705

    @Wenger Out, Every manager buys lemons, it goes with the territory. Your hero Fergie paid £45m for Veron, one of the biggest flops in PL history. Maureen latest buy Juan Cuadrado hasn't worked out. Both Maureen & Fergie work (ed) from a far greater pot of money than was ever available to AW. Fregie's greatest strength was the intimidation of the match officials something Wenger is not very good at.

  200. Man United Killer

    Jul 12, 2015, 13:59 #72704

    Players want to win titles period!-and a good number of them did when they left us.I hope you can understand that.We won the FA cup sure but wont you rather the Premier League? Please be honest with yourself.

  201. jeff wright

    Jul 12, 2015, 13:51 #72703

    Badarse, there has been clearly a dithering, or if you like as Hill-Wood once stated, an over cautious approach to making signings by Wenger, throughout his tenure at AFC..... This is a fact ,it's even been claimed by one agent that Wenger is paranoid regarding what he is prepared to pay for a player based on his OWN valuation. This is, as we saw with the pathetic attempt by him to sign Suarez from Liverpool that time , often based on no resemblance with the reality of what the player is actually worth based on the current valuation of similar ones that have been sold . Wenger himself over prices his own players that he flogs off while underpricing any that other clubs want to sell. Despite however his parsimonious policies regarding buying players Wenger paradoxically wastes multi-millions on players that he feels some loyalty toward, such as Diaby No one can justify that nonsense and waste of space and money for year after year. There are some that have never rocked the good ship Arsene that are rewarded for doing so. Step forward Arteta ! Others such as Pold, who have annoyed our great leader though by daring to ask awkward questions about him , get short shift from him. So really the whole buying and selling,is not always just about being shrewd with the dosh, although book balancing always plays a big part in it all, egotistical matters also have an impact .Fabregas was never going to be brought back for reasons of Wenger's ego , even if Chelsea were not involved and the price was right .No he would have then ended up at United or such . Fabregas had upset Mourinho in the past by making comments about him,but the mouthy one is a pragmatist and did not allow personal feelings to get in the way of his big ambition , rather than that of his big ego. Wenger with his Arteta loyalty type contract extension shows yet again that his own ambition is limited to a minor top 4 finish and another tilt at the FAC at the end of the season to paper over what will surely be just another duff non-existent title tilt and failure against the Euro sides .The group stage could also be a tad tougher this time around with the seeding system now changed .

  202. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 13:14 #72702

    jeff you mention some who weren't socialists, and the discussion therefore ends there. Dithering in general, or vacillation is a wild accusation to attribute to anyone, especially when those criticising are not privy to all relevant details. It isn't held against you though as I witness that type of random scything of any 'problem' up for discussion regularly on this site. Posting in didactic terms wins favour with the timid, but not with others. Hindsight is a wondrous thing jeff. It allows us to bang on about a policy or direction and crow if the opposite occurs and fails. There is never any proof that both strategies may have been duff because that time has passed. Then if the opposite proves successful the one banging dustbin lids just quietly replaces them on the bins. I am a numbers man and therefore only count numbers when valid. Assessing percentages is Bard's domain, assessing numbers is the domain of the naive. A keeper is 'worth' whatever an individual deems he is worth. The input is occasionally multi-faceted, as in influence in deed, manner, advice, knowledge, personality etc. It might be argued every individual position on the pitch has a points 'value', a good left back might be worth a point etc. With this in mind and the criticism the whole squad attracts continuously I could offer an assessment that were we better equipped we'd be 30 points a season better off. Nonsense, eh, if, see?

  203. jjetplane

    Jul 12, 2015, 13:08 #72701

    WESTIE - it's well beyond love, hate or even dithering. It's like sleepwalking & pray tell whatever happened to Project Youth. Have a look at Chelski's current set up and see what good football management is all about. That importantly includes dodgy owners who seem to love the game. Stan looks like he ended up at the wrong opera while the rest of the board do a Harpo. Your post though was a masterpiece of the effects of religious corporatism. The way you write, I assume you have not missed a game at youth or senior level since the first mohair suit was seen on Oxford St. Trilbies off mucker. Good old Dunn & Co.

  204. jeff wright

    Jul 12, 2015, 12:51 #72700

    Actually Badarse I believe myself that socialists tend instead of dithering to be rather headstrong, for wont of a better expression, regarding their use of power .Gordon Brown being a prime example of that scenario. Jeremy Corbyn would not be dithering about either in the highly unlikely event that he became our Prime-minister. I tend to avoid these sort of political things on here though after once having been savaged by lefty ideologists for not sharing their infatuation with those giants of political greatness ,Tony Wedgewood-Benn and Arthur Scargill. You couldn't make it up. Regarding Arsene ,well he of course does dither about on signing players ,you only have to look at the numerous ones that by his own confession he missed out on to see this. Cech, 7 years too late, but he is an improvement on what we have , however not the 15 points a season that has been claimed. I put GK errors down to us losing around 5 points last season. A survey carried out on Chelsea's GK ones put theirs at 3 points lost . So nothing there really to suggest that a better GK than what we had would have put us in a title challenging position last term against Mourinho's crew. Other areas of our squad also need strengthening ,but even then Wenger's legendary stubbornness ,age, and a chronic lack of tactical nous, will still be on parade in the league and of course in Europe as well. 20 years of tears there by Arsene is not just down to the slings and arrows of adversity..... If you believe that then you really will believe anything... Finishing ahead of United for a 3rd time in a row in the league is what it will all be about this coming season ,talk is cheap and so is optimism, that commodity of course never being in short supply with the AKB, rather than the signings and money being spent by Arsene to allow us to realistically challenge for the Prem title against Chelsea and City .

  205. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 12:44 #72699

    Biggest loss to Arsenal, and I suppose to me personally-it still smarts after all these years-was the transfer of Frank McLintock away from where fate had almost destined he should remain. Of course it wasn't his decision and he certainly didn't go for cash, so not really relevant to the article. However I genuinely thought both Patrick and Thierry had had their day, missed the beauty on the ball of Hleb but had long since realised he wasn't doing what we needed him to do. Saddened by the loss of Fabregas' and Nasri's skill quotient, angered by Cole's departure routine, though have recognised for quite a while that it was how young players of that time acted, glad Adebayor left, so RvP's transfer was by far the most irritating and offered a real sense of 'betrayal'-the pragmatist in me was just dismayed that a man at the top of his game, a man we needed, went to a rival-the dismissal of AFC was just a fillip.

  206. Wenger Out

    Jul 12, 2015, 12:36 #72698

    RVP left to play with the best manager ever.His form in his first season at Utd was like his final season at Arsenal.Then Fergie left and was replaced by that tool Moyes.Westie-No manager is shrewder than Wenger in the transfer.Yeah right Santos Squillaci Park Gervinho Arshavin Podolski Chamakh the list goes on.It took him 10 years to sign a world class keeper

  207. 1971 Gooner

    Jul 12, 2015, 12:31 #72697

    Very good article. The phrase 'good but not great' sums RVP up very well. We do owe him a massive debt for single-handedly getting us into the Champions League in 2012. Of those that have left, the only one I really regretted was Ashley Cole, but then again we had a big problem at centre-back at that time and getting Willy in return took some of the pain away.

  208. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 11:59 #72696

    Morning jeff, apologies for the retort, as it seemingly wasn't you, though you do throw occasional curved balls in my opinion. My welcome back was real enough though; your posts are welcome too-I always need an excuse to get up from the computer and put the kettle on! We had a Turkish friend-a ship's captain-who had a haunted existence. His political views, shared by many in his district, left him alienated by many other countrymen, and he and his wife and children were constantly hiding from reprisals. People are people, and some enjoy an advantage to bully and intimidate. I just live for the day when I can say Arsenal are a little bit better in Europe than Turkish sides!

  209. jjetplane

    Jul 12, 2015, 11:45 #72695

    Exactly that RON. Am just starting a book by Pamuk who won a nobel prize for literature and I hae also been lucky enough to see all the top Turkish sides in action with Turkish friends. Their love of football is only matched by their love of basketball. Good move for RVP and I have always wanted the best for him. Who can forget that header at the WC? The only player we have who can replicate that is Sanchez (that penalty) but he still has to do it when the chips are down and he may well be doing it somewhere else if Arsene's ambitions are still to include Arteta, Welbeck, Flamini et al. I wrote a poem once on the crossing of the Bosphorous. Good old Turkey. Great people, food and music. Byzantine me up.

  210. Westlower

    Jul 12, 2015, 11:45 #72694

    Love or hate him, no manager is shrewder than AW in the transfer market. Can you imagine the state AFC would have been in during the ground move under the guidance of a Harry Redknapp type manager. AFC have by far the least net spend of any of the top clubs, driven by reasons previously discussed. For that reason alone Wenger deserves a big thank you from all Gooners, regardless of his big wage, as he's earned every penny in my book. Because of our past prudent spending we are financially stronger than at any time in our history, but financially we still lag behind the Manchester duo & Putin's club. That fact of life is unlikely to change in the short term, so we'll have to continue to be astute in our transfer dealings. I'm sure we'll spend big should the right player(s) become available as there is scope to add non home grown players to the 25 man squad. It appears to some/many that AFC is treading water but I believe we are building momentum & progressing with the squad getting stronger. The younger players have improved to become regulars in the first team & will get even better as they mature. It would be folly to turn the team upside down purely for the sake of splashing the cash to continually keep changing the team. Our neighbours cannot see the downside to this but it keeps their supporters happy by throwing money at the team. They will shortly start their annual migration of players regardless of building a new stadium. Tottenham High Road, the road to bankruptcy anyone? Welcome back from your Holiday Ron, enjoy your cricket?

  211. jeff wright

    Jul 12, 2015, 11:38 #72693

    This article is just another ( yawn) attempt at revionist rewriting of recent history to make it appear thart Arsene knows best. I love the us strolling on to win the FAC part though while poor old Pursestrings had to make do with just another 4th place trophy medal to add to the many others that he won with Arsene. Pursie of course also won an FAC medal with us. So nothing much missed really , because there is no way had he stayed at AFC under the current manager and regime that he would have a league winners one , and in football careers often do take a downward turn for many players. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! It was always likely anyway that an injury prone player like RVP would have proplems as he aged , others such as Wally and Jack will face this problem sooner or later......... By the way Badarse wake up and pay attention ! That one liner post about 'socialists ' that got you so irked was not made by myself, but thanks anyway for the good wishes regarding my return . Even though they were premature ! You couldn't make it up.

  212. Bard

    Jul 12, 2015, 11:36 #72692

    Good article but slightly sentimental. Wenger made a great deal selling RVP for that amount of money but the bottom line is they always leave for the money. Sagna sat on the bench for most of last season but for £130000 a week, he's a happy man. Nasri went for the money. No one left Arsenal for less money and at that time we couldnt get anywhere near offering the wages they could earn so we were always open to being shafted. Liverpool and the Spuds are in the same boat now. Its only the fans that love the club these days players are just mercenaries plying their trade for whoever pays the most. As Ron says in the end RVP was a terrific player but not world class.

  213. Toe Knee Add Ums

    Jul 12, 2015, 10:50 #72691

    I'll say it quietly but I would've taken him back... Wages would've been OTT but come on, if you dont think girouds the real deal, how many other top strikers are there with his experience that would slot straight into our side and probably bang in the goals for at least a season or two. Not long term but it would've given us breathing space to find someone else. Whether you think he's a bellend or not, all would be forgiven if he scored 25+ goals and helped us lift the prem trophy...

  214. Ron

    Jul 12, 2015, 10:41 #72690

    I thought at the time it was a good sale by AW. AW would have known that the late bloom of fitness he had at AFC wouldnt last and with RVP 29 yrs old, the price was good. Yes he won a title at Utd more or less on his own but, it didnt affect us. AFC werent best placed to rival Utd for the title that yr anyway. RVP has played for and won a title with maybe the biggest Club in the World. His move gave him the chance to leave a marker on his time in english football. RVP in my view was always a very good player, never a great, not World class but hes given good service to AFC and Utd. To see his move as a poor one in hindsight is just tedious AFC fan wishful thinking about any body that leaves. The myth that none do well awaya from AFC is a tired one. The raft of players that we ve sold to Barcelone were all great AW sale too. The whole lot of those players knew and were never bought by Barca with any intention of them being lynch-pins in the Barca teams of those years. In sure all of them would have no regrets about playing for Barcelona, however limited their respective roles there. Its a bit rich poo pooing RVPs move to Fenerbache if thats where hes gone ( in dont know ive been on holiday). AFC arent a euro big hitter anymore than the turks are. Ive been to their stadium though when theyve played. RVP will have a great time there as his career winds down and wont have experienced anything like the passion for a Club like their fans show im sure.

  215. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 10:08 #72689

    Wow, Alsace. Is that how conveniently you reduce all situations? 'Yeah they did this so boom to them!' Interesting to consider someone with such a strident outlook running our football club. I think that often, so I shall depersonalise it, but would the positions be reversed I imagine an Online Gooner critic managing AFC and AW posting on here about the obvious inadequacies.

  216. Alsace

    Jul 12, 2015, 9:43 #72688

    RVP left for sensible reasons and went to play for a proper manager. He has a championship medal. End of.

  217. Cyril

    Jul 12, 2015, 9:20 #72687

    Nice article, I am gonna be contentious as I know how much he has upset the fans by leaving. I was there at Man U away when they beat us 1 nil in 2013 and he scored. Can't forget the way he turned away with such relief and happiness when he scored the winner. That hurt, it really hurt. That said, I can't fault him for wanting to go and get a prem legue winner's medal and play for fergie. Had we really competed for the title regularly since 2005. We know the answer. Would rvp be a regular in the next few seasons when we really push for the title. My answer is no. Father Time is catching him. It just didn't work for him in his pomp here, trophywise. Being five years younger, or five years older, he could of been the Arsenal legend he should of been. I am not willing to knock him, although I feel a little let down. Oh, and I certainly do not accept the disgusting songs sang about him. We were in one of the bars at Trafford, when a handful of people starting singing the rape song. We put our pint down, looked over at the stewards and walked off in disgust shaking our heads. Not acceptable at all !

  218. Badarse

    Jul 12, 2015, 9:10 #72686

    Superb article Peter, thank you. It captures perfectly the overall, yet nonetheless vague emotions RvP induced in most of us. It puts a full stop to those feelings in my case, and just leaves a mental image of Arsenal fans sagely shaking their heads as he disappears into relative oblivion.

  219. Arseneknewbest

    Jul 12, 2015, 8:41 #72684

    Peter - thanks, a well researched and thought provoking article. My reaction to a transfer like RvP's (and I think of Fabregas in his Barca jersey and others like Nasri in the same way) is to write them off as turncoats and get on with it. The same cannot be said for players who leave against their will, chief among them a certain D Rocastle who was very upset when GG sold him to Leeds. I genuinely shared his pain. He's a different character from Rocky but it also a sign of better times to hear Jack saying that he wants to stay. RvP, however, joined a long list of other numpties who thought that they were bigger than the club. My gripe is that OGL and Gazidis should have fought tooth and nail to sell those traitors to ANYONE BUT our title rivals. Not worth speculating on, but what might have been if those players had stayed and had been fully committed to winning something with us? I wonder if RVP's little boy inside told him that a move to the Turkish league was right at this time in his career...?

  220. Gary

    Jul 12, 2015, 8:09 #72683

    Bitter gooner or what