#FlashbackFriday – Charity/Community Shield

Second half of a lookback at Arsenal’s involvement in the league champions v cup winners fixture



#FlashbackFriday – Charity/Community Shield

1991: The trophy shared


In 1971, as you’re all aware, Arsenal undoubtedly qualified to take part in that year’s Charity Shield on account of winning both the Football League and FA Cup the previous season. The only shadow of a doubt should have therefore been who would be their opponents. The only precedent for this had come ten years prior when Tottenham Hotspur carried out the same feat. They then took on an England XI at White Hart Lane. The FA Charity Shield that year however took place between the Champions of the Second Division - Leicester City – and the runners up in the 1971 FA Cup Final, Bill Shankly’s Liverpool at Leicester’s Filbert Street.

The reason behind Arsenal’s absence is that in the eight days leading up to the start of the 1971/72 season the club had already been committed to partake in a pre-season friendly against Benfica in Lisbon, followed by a fixture against Feyenoord in Rotterdam and asserted they were unable to pull out of the fixture with Benfica, which had already been cancelled as a result of their hectic run-in the previous May. The refusal to cancel a lucrative friendly had also been a matter of principle due to the stink the club kicked up three years earlier, when South American club champions - Estudiantes of Argentina - pulled out of friendly fixture with Arsenal, (who instead went off to play a friendly with Inter), as a result of the fall-out from their ill-tempered second leg of the World Club Championship fixture with European Cup winners Man Utd at Old Trafford, which led to a sending off for George Best.

Throughout the 1960s the Charity Shield was achieving respectable attendance figures, the 1967 fixture between Man Utd and Spurs achieving 54,000 on the gate. Arsenal’s snub in 1971 however was a huge dent in its credibility, setting a precedent where both League Champions Derby and FA Cup holders Leeds Utd also snubbed the 1972 fixture with fourth placed Man City meeting Third Division Champions Aston Villa at Villa Park. The same occurred in 1973 when Man City, purely because they were holders, met Second Division champions Burnley at Maine Road. In 1974 however, the FA had made it compulsory that the Football League Champions and FA Cup holders participate and that the fixture would now be played at Wembley Stadium. The 1974 game also has historical significance in that it had been Bill Shankly’s last game in charge of Liverpool and Brian Clough’s first in his short 44 day managerial reign at Leeds. Keegan and Bremner’s famous bust up also ensured it was a far from friendly affair.

Arsenal’s first appearance at Wembley in the Charity Shield came against Liverpool in 1979, however they were played off the park by the Merseysiders who took the Shield, winning 3-1. Liverpool would also be victorious a decade later for Arsenal’s next appearance as League Champions in 1989, however it is doubtful this victory for Liverpool had made up for either Arsenal’s last ditch title win at Anfield the previous May or the fact that every other non-Charity Shield Wembley fixture between the two sides has ended in an Arsenal victory. Arsenal were back again as League Champions in 1991, however the match with FA Cup holders Tottenham Hotspur was so non-descript that it seems that clearly no-one has bothered to upload it on any video sharing websites such as YouTube, with the only real proof for those born after 1991 that Arsenal and Spurs actually shared a trophy that year being the picture at the top of this article.

Another change of format therefore was to follow, in order to prevent another such a damp squib as the 1991 fixture being repeated in the future. The FA Charity Shield now had a sponsor, in the form of Tennants Lager, and was to be broadcast live on Sky Sports. For either to get their money’s worth out of a fixture involving the League Champions and the FA Cup winners, it had to become a marquee event and for both sides to share the trophy at the end of a draw was never going to suffice. Arsenal were to be involved in the Charity Shield again two years later (in what was their fifth Wembley appearance in under four months), the needs of television had meant that the game had to kick off at 12.45 PM in order to avoid clashing with League fixtures kicking off during the 3PM black out period.

The 1993 match became the first Charity Shield since 1974 to be decided by a penalty shootout (though George Graham at the time claimed he was unaware that a drawn match was to be decided in this fashion). Ian Wright’s screamer of a volley had cancelled out Mark Hughes’s opener, and ironically as in 1974 the game would be decided by a penalty miss by a goalkeeper. David Seaman failed to convert the deciding penalty in 1993, where nineteen years earlier it was Leeds United goalkeeper David Harvey whose miss from the spot had handed Liverpool the Charity Shield.

Over eleven seasons, the fixture was to be contested by Arsenal and Manchester United on no fewer than four occasions. The rivalry between Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger went some way to inflating the importance of the Charity Shield as both managers saw it as an opportunity to strike an early psychological blow in the title race. The first head to head between Wenger and Ferguson came after Arsenal’s double in 1998 and was David Beckham’s first game in England after his infamous sending off against Argentina just a few weeks prior. An interesting time piece to note ahead of this fixture is Arsene Wenger confidently predicted the coming of a European Super League over the next few years (though in realty, a pipe dream which sixteen years on looks even less likely than it did then). In the event however, Arsenal comprehensively triumphed 3-0 on the day.

In the follow up fixture a year on, Arsenal’s appearance came by virtue of finishing second in the Premiership and took place in the aftermath of Man Utd’s treble and the controversy surrounding their plans to withdraw from that season’s FA Cup. Arsenal retained the Shield in a 2-1 victory over their rivals from the North, however it turned out to be their only silverware during the 1999/2000 season. In the aftermath of their 2000 FA Cup victory, a Chelsea supporting supervisor at work taunted me by asking what Arsenal had won that season. I replied sarcastically: ‘the Charity Shield… which is a proper trophy as United actually bothered to enter it’. It also turned out to be Arsenal’s final appearance at the old Wembley Stadium in any competition. With their next appearance in this fixture in 2002 came not just a change of venue (now held at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff) but also a change of name for the competition.

Ahead of the 2002 fixture, the Charity Commission had claimed that the FA had breached Charity rules by failing to inform fans who the recipients of the proceeds of the fixture would be and so the fixture was to be rebranded as the FA Community Shield as a result. In the first ever FA Community Shield, Double winners Arsenal took on Premiership runners up Liverpool, winning 1-0. Ahead of the Invincible season, Arsenal would line up against Man United again, but despite a sublime Thierry Henry free kick cancelling out a Mikel Silvestre goal for United, Arsenal would again lose the Shield on a penalty shoot-out.

Arsenal would win the Shield back a year later with a 3-1 victory and goals from Gilberto, Reyes and an own goal from future Arsenal centre half Silvestre, but would concede the 2005 Shield to Chelsea in a 1-2 defeat, which would be their last appearance in the competition for another nine years. On their return in 2014, as FA Cup winners Arsenal saw off Premiership Champions Man City with a promising 3-0 victory. The importance of beating the Premiership champions by any score in this fixture however will always be something of a moot point.

Other European countries do have a similar fixture of League Champions up against Cup winners, usually referred to as the ‘Super Cup’. This Daily Telegraph article argues the case for taking the fixture abroad in the pre-season, citing the example of the Italian and French counterparts – the Italian Super Cup was played in Washington DC as early as 1993 and has since been played in the Libyan capital of Tripoli, Beijing and Qatar; while the French Super Cup since 2008 has been exported on an annual basis to venues in Montreal, Tunisia, Morocco, Gabon and China.

Playing the Community Shield abroad is not an entirely unreasonable proposition and one with far more integrity than the 39th Premiership fixture proposal of a few years ago. However, while our ‘Super Cup’ equivalent has a veneer of charity to it, the FA will probably not go to the trouble of exporting a fixture which they can’t rinse every last commercial ounce out of for private gain.

That said however, with a ‘traditional’ fixture like this, which seems to have shown a David Bowie-like knack for reinvention over the years, you can never really say never.

*Follow me on Twitter@robert_exley


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91
comments

  1. brad (@lancasterb)

    Aug 04, 2015, 17:16 #73575

    My memories as a 10 year-old boy from the Liverpool 89 game, was that this was the fixture that the song "we won the league on merseyside" got its first airing. As for the 91 game v the Spuds. The song "wheres your fat boy gone" (gazza had left) was sung and Andy Cole came on, and hit the side netting late on. I actually got out all my ticket stubs from past Charity Shields, to look at the prices. 1991 - £22 1998 - £27 2003 - £35 2015 - £20

  2. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 03, 2015, 13:54 #73507

    julesd, point taken, but maybe he's not allowed to.

  3. Robert Exley

    Aug 03, 2015, 13:11 #73502

    GoonerEd25 - Doh! You're right. How did I miss that one? Proper losing it!

  4. goonercolesyboy

    Aug 03, 2015, 9:40 #73486

    Seems like we have had this conversation before and when I asked you the question you found it in you to avoid it. Giroud is under rated and with the alternatives we have, Sanchez, Walcott and Welbeck then the combinations are good. Benzema would be a welcome addition but not absolutely essential. As for the famed DM position. The Coq is fantastic and Arteta plus Flamini will do for now as back ups. At home against certain teams he won't use the Coq so will get his rest then, play Ramsey with Cazorla and Ozil. If injuries happen then decisions can then be made in the January window.

  5. Bard

    Aug 03, 2015, 8:59 #73479

    Colseyboys; Balanced and circumspect but hardly doom and gloom. You can look up what circumspect means. Start with C in the dictionary. Why dont you post something informative rather than just carping. If you disagree with my thoughts on lack of personnel up front and in the DM position then post a coherent comment and we can all have a debate. I am very upset about being called a Shakespearian Wannabe, my dream is to become a ABK but Im am not prepared to have a lobotomy in pursuit of my dream.

  6. goonercolesyboy

    Aug 03, 2015, 8:38 #73476

    Ah the doom and gloom from our Shakesperian wannabe. Drab, drab, drab. Ah Petr Cech is magic, he wears a magic hat, he used to play for Chelsea, but no he said, **** that. He saves them with his left hand , he saves them with his right, and when we win the league again, we'll sing this song all night. Ah, Petr Cech...............

  7. Bard

    Aug 03, 2015, 7:36 #73473

    Even though it was a pre season walkabout good to see Maureen in full tantrum mode. And at last we have overcome the block we have against Chelsea. Other than that I didnt see too much that suggests championship potential. It looks like Wenger has decided that Wally is our 'new' striker and Giroud is Giroud. A cheap option but flawed. Going into the new season with Arteta as back up is another cheap but flawed option. Worryingly Jack has another injury so we wont see him for a while. Great result but still need to buy to make that difference. As you say Marcus we needed to sell to get a world class striker in and he clearly aint going to do that. We are still on for the septuple !

  8. GoonerEd25

    Aug 03, 2015, 7:34 #73472

    Actually, the 1999 Charity Shield was not our last appearance at the old Wembley in all competitions as we were still playing 'Champions' League matches there that campaign : AIK Solna (W3-1), Barcelona (L2-4) & Fiorentina (L0-1) were the last 3 fixtures played before the bulldozers moved in.

  9. julesd

    Aug 03, 2015, 5:29 #73471

    Maguiresbridge - you are very selective about who you pick on, for your information Steve Bould perhaps could get up and give instructions too! On second thoughts maybe he has lost the use of his limbs.

  10. Mark from Aylesbury

    Aug 02, 2015, 23:22 #73470

    1 nil shut out. Job done and Pissed off Maureen as well. Job well done!

  11. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 23:21 #73469

    MARCUS, yes it's good that that the gorillas off his back but laid to rest ? lets hope he can do it when it matters.

  12. just a gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 23:11 #73468

    Sounds like sour grapes jeff.

  13. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 23:07 #73467

    just seen OGL on match of the day get off his arse to give instruction (there's a first time for everything)pointing to something, as it was the dying minutes it must have been to where the selfies were going to be taken.

  14. jeff wright

    Aug 02, 2015, 22:22 #73466

    Arsene did a good imitation of Tony Pulis tactics today I said earlier that Wenger would do better copying them than trying to win 5-0. Mourinho has a cheek though complaining about it because had he gone a goal up he would have done the same. Anyway, it's only the charity shield, the game that matters between us and the chavs is at the bridge of sighs on the 19th September .That one will sort out the men from the boys . Wally is already looking nothing like a 40k a week striker he will have to revert back to coming on late out wide when Sanchez returns ,already the cannon on his shirt is weighing him down along with expectations ... £140 k a week demands £140k a week performances, end of... Giroud missing chances again ... hey what's new then... Mourhino himself will be hoping that Costa is fit for our visit because Remy and the oh so slow Falcao are no great shakes. Falcao is like watching wet varnish dry in the rain . Kos and plodding Per never had an easier afternoon against a striker . Mourinho got shut of one duffer in Torres and has replaced him with another one in Falcao. United don't let top strikers leave to join rivals in the Prem - ask Danny Boy about it. You couldn't make it up. I know he got that lucky goal in the cup against them,accidents happen ,but what about the two Prem games>? Arteta (yawn) trotting out to replace AOC was another reality check for the season . On the bright-side though at one time Wenger would have have gone for more goals gung-ho after going one up instead he put 9 men - 8 when Arteta replaced AOC behind the ball and got away with a 1-0 win ... Onwards and Upwards !

  15. Badarse

    Aug 02, 2015, 22:15 #73465

    A thought from Phoenix Park to go to bed on-just think, all those times we tried to argue with those WOBs who said we should get rid of JW, and none of us realised they were talking about jeff wright. Say goodnight jeff, 'Goodnight jeff'.

  16. Th14afc

    Aug 02, 2015, 22:13 #73464

    So good that Wenger finally wiped that smug grin from that Portuguese fool's face....yeah it was only community shield & bigger tests await but still good to see the un-special one moan about Arsenal defensive tactics (how ironic coming from park the bus mourinho) glad wenger blanked the odious little toad

  17. just a gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 22:13 #73463

    Jjetplane. "Small victory" ?!?!?!. Yet another addition to the long list of history to our wonderful, successful club that is called the ARSENAL. I never tire from it all.

  18. goonercolesyboy

    Aug 02, 2015, 21:44 #73462

    43% v 57% possession. 11 shots with 5 on target. 14 shots with two on target. Score 1-0. Hardly stats of parking the bus, jj, aka jeff junior.

  19. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS). HES A BUST

    Aug 02, 2015, 21:26 #73461

    Look it was a good win. That stat of wenger never beating maureen can now be laid to bed!! BUT and its a BIG BUT!! Alot of folks seem to have short term memories. We beat man city 3-0 last year in the same fixture and what good did that do us?? we were out of the pl challenge after 8 games yes 8 games as we where 11 points behind chelski!!Again I fear this win is going to get to wengers head!! I fear now he wont buy a striker a WORLD CLASS one as he seems to think we can CHALLENGE for the pl with Giroud and Walcott who again looked out of hes depth up front 140k?? really?? come on now!!Giroud as usual missed the sitters!! I just dont think we can win the pl with him and wally or welbeck upfront just not good enough or lethal and I would start Giroud over wally any day of the week!! But again it was a great win, but I dont have a short memory!! Again I believe this team is TWO players short off actually CHALLENGING for the pl. The striker position needs a wc player but i fear the dinosaur wont buy one now as he handed walcott 140k. Also i fear he wont buy another dm!! I like coq but if he gets injured who comes in?? areteta?? GOD HELPS US!!! Again all these niggling infuriating things make me want wenger gone!! Why does he just not go and make the right purchases. I think this team is almost there but again missing a wc striker. yet again one man who likes to remind us he has been the manager of arsenal for 20 years is ALWAYS RIGHT!!

  20. Badarse

    Aug 02, 2015, 21:24 #73460

    Evening peeps. Ramires-we all need a thug in the middle of the park-uses his studs as a calling card. Glad Arsene snubbed that posturing fool, and I am an expert on posturing fools,(said it before you jj). Six visits to Wembley in 15 months, came away winners every time, what a confidence booster. How many grasp that? Anyway final score, c(US)p-1CFC-0.

  21. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2015, 21:14 #73459

    Poor little AKBs still whining away because they know as does Arsene that this is a very small victory that must be recorded thus. just a gooner - that sums you up - just ..... proper gooners sing it loud. And remember - Arsene parked the bus to get a result today. maybe he is at last learninng a thing or two from the more astute WOB community who only wish the best for the team and club but would rather see the pragmatism expanded onto the pitch. Silly little AKbs .....

  22. Ashcroft

    Aug 02, 2015, 20:54 #73458

    Wenger was right to snub Maureen and not get involved in all his usual PC garbage.Some of the Wenger outs on here could learn from him instead of always flying in the face of public opinion..

  23. just a gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 20:48 #73457

    Congratulations jjetplain. The first WOB to excruciate that it was only a friendly. Welcome to the negative world that keeps this whole thing spinning.Tired, boring, selfless and downright boring. ........ congrats Mr Wenger.

  24. goonercolesyboy

    Aug 02, 2015, 19:35 #73456

    Finsbury, you wouldn't know a Community Shiled from a foreskin. Cracking goal from the Ox and a well deserved victory in a tactically astute performance from the players. It was roasting hot there today but well worth the sun tan. Cech's a gooner, doh, doh doh Cech's a gooner.

  25. Finsbury Joe

    Aug 02, 2015, 19:14 #73455

    Oh well, that's the ambitions of some of the fanbase satisfied for the next decade. AKBs, please remember, no points were on offer today, and it was a friendly, not a competitive match. We all know the outcome when competition is introduced to this fixture.

  26. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 19:12 #73454

    jj, your right that's enough of that it's been discussed and debated enough, now on to more important things what's the chance of getting pep.

  27. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 19:01 #73453

    King Kong of OGL's back at last, first win against Maureen in his career, about fooking time, he has said he's never been bothered about that (yea right if you believe that you'll believe anything, and some do) I bet there's plenty of whooping and selfies been taken all round tonight, a new dawn has arrived (how many is that now ?)we're up and running ready to go we're going to win the prem and if you believe that you'll believe anything.

  28. Hiccup

    Aug 02, 2015, 18:55 #73452

    Don't know what Roy Keane's on about with all this 6 pack business? United's success years were built on teams with 6 packs. Ronaldo, beckham, cantona, Steve Bruce etc. Possibly one for next year's Gooner survey. The fans favourite tattoo? Best 6 pack? Cazorla maybe?

  29. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2015, 18:22 #73451

    Bit muted there WESTIE and of course the season has still not started so we have yet to win really but Colsey's Hammers should not prove a problem and now everybody and his dog say Arsenal will win the league with 'something more than Giroud' who is find but only in that Remy sense and this may well affect maureen as much as Arsene though they have their heavyweight to come back and Arsene - well does he have the tactical nous to not have only half a dozen good players who all want to play off a striker while Giroud himself quite rightly also wants to play off the that central striker as he knows he is no top middle man. as long as Cech completes a season ..... whatever maureen is peed off and possibly very unhappy with the lad he brought in to carry it all forward. Fabregas has his work cut out this season. We will know where the season is going if Stoke beat Liverpool again.

  30. Westlower

    Aug 02, 2015, 18:00 #73450

    So important to get that win as I would have been very worried if we'd failed to do so. Anyone who's travelled home midweek from USA will know that it's physically & mentally draining. It's usually AFC who are the fatigued team but the shoe was on the other foot today with CFC looking flat. Fingers crossed that the Ox goes on from here as he's a tremendous talent. The team has a better balance when Giroud is playing. Get Alexis back and we'll be a potent force this season. Avoiding long term injuries will be a massive plus after the devastation they've caused during the past couple of seasons. @Ron, Maureen like any other coach is as good as the players/team available to him. Coaches can only prepare the team but once the whistle blows it's down to the players to do their stuff!

  31. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2015, 17:44 #73449

    It may have an effect but it was a pre-season shield and Maureen reckons Arsene was the one parking the bus today. Interesting to see what WESTIE can spin from that. A win can be a win ut to breal that duck it will have to be a proper game. That is how cookies crumble and hopefully Arsenal are aware of that. Let's see if JAMERsON makes an appearance. Perhaps under a new guise/same use of apostrophes. Offshore and deeper.

  32. jeff wright

    Aug 02, 2015, 17:42 #73448

    Yes Smithy at last! Great goal from AOC and a fighting performance from all the others . Mourinho can have no complaints .So onwards and upwards !

  33. Smithy

    Aug 02, 2015, 17:11 #73447

    Ref- jeff wright. The monkey is now off the back. Well done the lads!

  34. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2015, 17:08 #73446

    Chelsea on the wane already with Fabregas a weak link and Coquelin looking way too good. PL there for the taking at it simply needs amassing the points before Xmas and then not folding. Theo of course is the speaker now which leaves Arsene to play with his pocket calculator and now the Ox is being mentored in touchline panache the squad is looking strong everywhere but do not forsee a big season for Wally on the field and Giroud who is middle tier is well he knows not good enough to take Arsenal where Henry could. Cech had a good game but we will see if the BFG & Arteta can share the team's direction for the complete duration. Think Mourinho may not have the complete team he thinks as he also carries some very average strikers and talk of William being a key key player does not bode well. This is how one irritating WOB sees it and if we had a Koeman there then he would have been on the touchline before Theo who would still be on the training pitch hoping to perfect his game for next season or the January window on a more reasonable pay packet. Right - Bexhill Weds it is .... Littlehampton - Bournemouth - Southampton then up to see Hibs for a laugh though maybe stop off at Carlisle for old times .... Come on you virtual Gunners! Let's 'shake' on it ....

  35. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 16:24 #73445

    Bard, yes it's the latest initiative from AKB central command, pathetic indeed, it's all they've got left.

  36. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 16:10 #73444

    Hiccup, well said, there's always one or in this case two or three, i want this old fraud of a manager out of our club even if we win 10-0 today and will be quite happy to log in with a password to keep saying it, and as you say the Admin has no problem with me or others saying it without either he's hardly going to have a problem with them. The AKB's will try Anything to stop their Messiah's name being taken in vain, and the truth being told.

  37. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 15:44 #73443

    Hiccup,77526, did we still win it.

  38. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 15:17 #73442

    jw, 77499, another top post no need for anyone else to post when your in this form, the CS our super cup just when you thought you heard it all from the AKB's.

  39. West Cork Frank

    Aug 02, 2015, 14:59 #73441

    No world-class defensive midfielder or forward STILL ! Cech fell into our hands, even Wenger couldn't fudge that up.OGL qouted saying we could have had Hazzard for a few million more, yet when we would end up selling him, he's so good even Wenger couldn't coach that out of him, Arsenal would have made tens of millions in profit. Isn't that wengers job, winning the league certainly isn't. Add to Hazzard, Higuain, Mata etc etc. I finally understand why Wenger doesn't buy the players we need to have a realistic chance of winning the league, if he did he would be shown up as the over-rated, arrogant lucky inheritor of the players that resulted in his long time ago real success.

  40. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 14:55 #73440

    Bard, top post, Exeter yes wally's going to come good now. You couldn't make it up.

  41. Ron

    Aug 02, 2015, 14:16 #73438

    SKG - i think Roy Keane got it absolutely right. Its blindingly obvious what the mentality at the Club is and has been for years. In fairness to the bloke, he usually does hit the nail right bang on the head doesnt he, pretty much the same as Mourinho does too. You wont find many of the precious set here amongst us who wont see anything adverse said about The Club or Wenger offering too much in the way of acknowledgment of it though. Westie - i reckon youve got a feline fetish Mourinho deep down but you cant have him so you chastise him remorselessly. It must be hard for you to suppress your knowledge that hes one of the top 3 coaches in World football and has been for a decade. You need to 'come out'. You ll feel better for it then im sure.

  42. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2015, 13:37 #73437

    In denial for a decade and counting. Some rudimentary grammar lessons might help. Westie can pull a sentence or two together and then there is Baddie for sheer 'expression' .....

  43. Hiccup

    Aug 02, 2015, 12:50 #73436

    It is the AKB's doing all the trolling, and they then ask for the site to be regulated to stop the trolling? You couldn't make it up...

  44. jjetplane

    Aug 02, 2015, 12:48 #73435

    WESTIE according to your philosophy there should have been no goals when Chelski beat us match after match by two or more. Interesting on 5 live earlier about the dressing room at highbury when Wenger would sit there and TA did all the talking and as everyone knows he was a giant. Can you ever see Arteta doing anything in the dressing room other than talking tatts and haircuts while spending most of his time with his Spanish mates. Then you have Ozil walking his dogs till after 2, Ramsay doing an animal doc about foxes in the Holloway area and of course Lord Theo talking financial futures with the Times while laughing 'cause the Ox and Jack think they are the new Gazza. Even in his last season JT could teach this lot a thing or two about winning. About those flaps on the shirts .... anyone note the AKB hysterics arousing. I love this ****!

  45. jeff wright

    Aug 02, 2015, 12:18 #73434

    Smithy, that monkey is on Wenger's back not the club's. GG would have had Mourinho sorted out long ago! It's another fact that Tony Pulis has the best record against the mouthy one out of the current managers in the Prem. Pulis of course tends to be a bit cautious in his tactical approach to games and this is not something that Mourinho handles as well as he does the more gung-ho Wenger approach.

  46. jeff wright

    Aug 02, 2015, 11:44 #73433

    Ifs and Buts I have never posted on here under several different names as you claim ,you have though, so stop trying to blame me and others for what you yourself do. ... On another note these trolls who make the fake anti-Arsene posts are oblivious to the irony of their comments that they in their deluded desperation to try and silence critics of their idol think are satire. However there are no true lies or false positives .Wenger's never beaten Mourinho. True or False >? Wenger last won a league title in 2004 and has never challenged for one since. True or False >? Wenger's never won a trophy in Europe during his entire long career .True or False>? A chance later for old Arsene to rectify his awful record against the Portugeezer and not before time either. Let's face it that record is nothing to laugh about .Unless that is you support Chelsea. You couldn't make it up.

  47. Smithy

    Aug 02, 2015, 10:06 #73432

    Get behind the lads today! Who knows we could get that monkey off the clubs back who has a particular likeing for sour grapes!

  48. Westlower

    Aug 02, 2015, 9:46 #73431

    Don't expect many goals this afternoon as Maureen won't want an open game. The bookies are offering 5/1 on either side to win on a penalty shoot out.

  49. Seven Kings Gooner

    Aug 02, 2015, 9:13 #73430

    Theo has become the "TV" man for our club - he speaks well without saying too much and gives the impression that he is working hard to break into the team and find his true position. Trouble is he is nearly 28 and 140K a week is a lot of money for a player who still has n't got a position in the team. I liked Roy Keane's summing up of our chances "There's too many players interested in selfies and six packs - instead of focusing on titles" I think we are a bit like Chelsea of the 60's - some very pretty players, always good for a couple of cups but the league - well that's too much like hard work. I think we will get fourth though - United will keep spending till they get it right and Chelsea have the best coach by a country mile and will win it again. However by the time Chelsea make it two in a row TW will have been paid five million big ones - mind numbing.

  50. Bard

    Aug 02, 2015, 8:45 #73429

    MG; someone's being a naughty boy and posting under my name. That wasnt me mate. A sad reflection of the fact that many on here can barely string a sentence together let alone an argument. Posting under someone elses name is pathetic.

  51. julesd

    Aug 02, 2015, 5:20 #73428

    Super, super Nick, super, super Nick, super Nicklas Bendtner, Lord Nick wins German Super Cup for Wolfsburg. Sign him up, sign him up......Project youth lives on!

  52. ifs and buts

    Aug 01, 2015, 23:23 #73427

    Hiccup I never had you down as the confused type, but your last comment was full of it. Read it slowly and you will get it. I never mentioned stopping the likes of jeff and co posting but it would eradicate the likes of which the website Editor stated only a few days ago, simpletons posting mindless comments under several names for which jeff is guilty of too.

  53. jjetplane

    Aug 01, 2015, 23:00 #73426

    We should have been winning half the games against Chelski over the decade plus so winning tomorrow really would not be any great shakes. Even winning the PL which everyone I know (rival supporters0 says it's Arsenal's for the taking. So AKVs - stop being so meta-pessimistic and get yerselves lives to live. If you need instruction - ask a WOB. They will show you the true light. if you're a Wenger men then you are doing this club a disservice. never been a better time to try a get a proper football manager in. He would have dropped Wally's wages and made Coquelin captain ahead of smiley Arteta. Testing on corporate laurels doth make winners on the football pitch. Going toAsia and having shirt competitions makes the Wallies of this world richer but not hungry enough to win games week in and out. Now about Stoke ....

  54. John Gage

    Aug 01, 2015, 22:13 #73425

    @Westlower: I'm afraid you're faced with a no-win situation. If Arsenal win, the pessimists will simply say that the Charity Shield is not a real trophy and Mourinho was not really trying. If Arsenal lose, they will say we told you so and that it is time for Arsene Wenger to leave. I'm just hoping that we see a good exciting game.

  55. Hiccup

    Aug 01, 2015, 20:42 #73424

    Ifs and buts, how is a password going to stop Jeff posting when the administrators have no problem with his posts? That's how thick you are. The only thing it will stop is trolls like you with your persistent name changing, as you don't have the balls to post under one name. I hope we don't go down the path of log ins, as all it will do is prevent you from posting, and I find watching your persistent trolling on here under a different disguise highly amusing. Keep stamping your feet and complaining. The wobs are loving it. Inboards and outboards.

  56. jeff wright

    Aug 01, 2015, 19:27 #73423

    Egos , many ego's makes no sense .

  57. newbee

    Aug 01, 2015, 18:04 #73422

    many ego's little sense

  58. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Aug 01, 2015, 17:37 #73421

    Let's see what the excuse is tomorrow if we lose from the dinosaur?? The Lyon and Wolfsburgs matches will mean nothing I bet if we lose tomorrow!!! The cech con trick or hood winking the man has pulled on a few deluded Wenger fan boys is comical to witness!! You don't win or CHALLENGE for the pl with just a great goalkeeper!! Look at manure with de gea he was the best goal keeper last season by far. Yet manure barely got 4th! Look de gea was a great signing of course he was, but you don't just jump from 4th to 1st miraculously overnight without strengthening the team!! I just read that 4th place champions league could be taken away from the pl!! Dammm Wengers precious 4th place is in jeopardy. Also we won't be in the top bracket in the cl wow that will put the cats amongst the pigeons!! We have been absolutely awful in the cl over the last 8 years!! The way a lot of Wenger fanboys have allowed this clown to get away with he's mediocre record over the last 8 years!! Also giving Walcott 140k a week is an absolute joke. The man had not even scored 20 goals in the pl in one season!! He's finishing is average at best, just don't get it!! Giroud does not scare any top defender in the pl. What does Wenger see him?? For the last 3 years I have been calling for a better striker yet the man still persists with the donkey!! Just so annoying!! INFURIATING.

  59. Alsace

    Aug 01, 2015, 17:04 #73420

    Ashcroft. Committed to the cause? By jingo yes. The manager has failed to do his job in the close season - again, so more disappointment next season. But hey, it's all paid for so let's make the best of it. Can I have £140k for not being as good as Chamberlain, yet somehow miraculously getting to play more often? Each and every week the wunderkind will take home seventy thousand quid. Still at least he tries to do his job. Wenger rejoices in refusing to do his. Mourinho's will make him look like a shmuck-again.w

  60. Hiccup

    Aug 01, 2015, 16:04 #73419

    Looks like Website Admin have brought in extra security over the weekend to contain this outbreak of trollism. It's a thankless task. On the subject matter, I also recall watching that game against United in the pub and leaving at full time explaining to all that the Shield would be shared, only to find out later we'd lost on penalties. But hey ho, forwards and defenders.

  61. jjetplane

    Aug 01, 2015, 14:32 #73418

    I am not remotely hoping for a Arsenal defeat tomorrow and I will be quite suprised if Chelski win. WESTIE you sound a tad tired there lad. Get jules to change your water bottle for a pint of lager. Liven up laddie! You are presently the president of meta-pessimism. Have some faith - the 140t a week career politician will mop up after Olly. then again ..... upwards and downwards .... my head is spinning/like a whirlpool/it's never ending. Is that Colsey multi tasking with all those posting names? Bexhill next wednesday ..... what's the bets JAMERsON is at wembley to see the Chelski ladies. ASHCROfT looks like he might be heading home to arseblog .... staying power - look at Theo!

  62. jeff wright

    Aug 01, 2015, 13:55 #73417

    2005 is ten years ago Ashcroft,Chelsea took our title off the 'Invincibles' of the season before by winning the title on 95 points we trailed in a distant 2nd on 83 points. No challenge for the title since then, or even one 2nd place, so nothing much to get excited about really. Many don't see this as being good enough .All players are overpaid everywhere it's a fact of life in the modern game. Wenger though takes it to another level with some of the players he awards big money too such as Walcott the bizarre Almunia fiasco that went on for donkeys years , his stubborn persistence with the injury prone Diaby made him a laughing stock, with his, when he returns it will be like signing a new player well it was not it was just the same injury plagued one that we had seen before. Wenger's got enough garden gnome sized technical midfield players signed now to be able to play his beloved tippy tappy again if or when a couple go down with injuries .Every time Ramsey , Jack or Wally go down after a tackle Wenger is up in a panic fearing the worst waving and remonstrating with the 4th official . Wenger adressed the GK situation, albeit 7 years too late, but too much is being made of the Cech signing ,nothing else has changed from last season other than Sanchez missing the start of it and fingers crossed that the old second season syndrome doesn't kick in. The great news is though that like the MP's in Westminster every one is getting more money at the club and talking themselves and each other up . Onwards and upwards !

  63. Ron

    Aug 01, 2015, 12:43 #73416

    Ive not a clue how long the Wally has signed on for but the reality is that the Arse are still likely to sell him once a genuine daft offer comes in. Better to sell when hes on a contract than entering his last yr of one. Never forget Wengers on great redeeming feature lads - hes a master at selling to gullible Clubs who ll buy his dross at a premium. The contract suits all. Wally wont play much and shall remain peripheral, so he ll stay as 'fit' as he ever does, he ll get the odd goal or two, he doesnt rock boats and eventually Liverpool will dangle some silly byt desperate cash as their decline under Rogers continues apace. Wally will go claiming he s a lifelong fan. Wenger will say its like losing a Son and the board will giggle like naughty instant mash potato men, wide eyed in the diamond Club, proclaiming Arsenes genius as they trouser north of 30 Mill notes in about a years time for their slump shouldered, rather timid never been.

  64. Ashcroft

    Aug 01, 2015, 12:38 #73415

    Some of the knowledge of our history shown is very poor on here,I wonder if many have been critics too long it's fogged their minds.jeff I agree that these players are overpaid yet I think you are way out on your assessment of their abilities,Walcott's a quality player who more often than not delivers..By the way we finished second in 2005..All this wanting the opposition to win MARCUS is churlish and shows a childish spirit even though you're probably only a teenager yourself with a rather sponge like head for reasoning stop acting like a four year old who stamps his feet if he doesn't get what he wants.....

  65. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2015, 12:11 #73414

    @Bard, re post 77480 from ace critic & chav lover Marcus, "I actually want Chelsea to beat us" was my inspiration for a riposte. Better to extend Wally's contract than let him walk away at the end of his existing deal. For all his shortcomings he does score goals. It would be folly to let him go now especially with the minimum 8 home grown player rule. He would have to be replaced with another home grown - you do you suggest is available & better? The same remarks also apply to all of our English contingent as they are at a stage of their development when they can make a real impression in the coming years. Better to stick with than buy Ballotelli types. Odds for CS. AFC 19/10, CFC 8/5, Draw 5/2, 0-0 10/1, 1-1 5/1, 0-1 7/1, 1-0 8/1. Now off to open a bottle of my red medicine. Red wine is far superior to blue whine.

  66. jeff wright

    Aug 01, 2015, 11:51 #73413

    Bard, the ludicrous money awarded to Wally and the contract to Arteta by Wenger is all about their loyalty to him .Wenger is at the fag-end of his time at AFC he is an old looking 66 living in Stan's business plan land .Winning or losing the Charity Shield tomorrow will not change that fact. With the 4th place qualifier spot for the Champions League due to be taken away from the Prem next season Wenger's safety net that he has exploited cunningly for donkeys years will be gone with the wind. Finishing in the top 3 is not so easy and Wenger has not finished in the top 2 since 2004. Despite what he claims I can't see him staying on when his current contract ends he will be 67 then . His successor will have to sort out the mess that Arsene leaves behind the youth set up is a complete failure and Chelsea look light years ahead of us in that area .So much for Wenger's much vaunted claims to develop young players. The old outdated training and coaching fitness /medical regime that Wenger runs needs revamping it is obviously not working . A different approach to signing players is also required with more Sanchez short term impact buys required that will give us a better chance in the league and in Europe. Rather than players like the 16 year old that was signed midweek from Ajax or are just an hopeful punt on them making it in the future and earning big money for Stan on his outlay . Less money wasted on Wenger pets and less of Stan's business plan ( yawn )and more action instead on competing at top level . It's never going to happen though with Stan and Wenger and winning meaningless trophies the Asia Cup,Emirates Cup and the FA Cup bigged up now from previously not worth a parade in 2005 to cover for this is what we can expect , if Wenger fails to win the FA Cup this season it will all look rather hollow the top 4 trophy as he did a couple of seasons back . As I said before for his 8m a year wages and the wage bill that he runs and on of this the top ticket prices that the club charges Wenger should be doing much better to justify these things than just competing for fake cup tournaments and the FA Cup that anyone can win,and have done.

  67. Bard

    Aug 01, 2015, 11:41 #73412

    Westie you must have got your medication mixed up mate. I havent read any posts saying they want us to lose tomorrow, I certainly dont. We havent beaten Maureen in 13 meetings ( I think ?) so the odds are not in our favour. It's said that doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome is a sign of madness. My view is that thinking Wally is going to become a to player falls into that category. I dont view that as pessimism more an assessment based on the facts.

  68. Exeter Gunner

    Aug 01, 2015, 11:31 #73411

    Bard - Wally's wages now match the Boss's. This will never do. We must start a campaign to get Arsene's wages raised. Think they know what they're doing there - all looking after each other to look after themselves. Watch wages throughout the squad and at executive level go up now. (For Badarse - I'm aware this is part of a trend taking place in a wider footballing and societal context.)

  69. Finsbury Joe

    Aug 01, 2015, 11:18 #73410

    Whatever happens tomorrow, there is a sinking feeling about this club, another season of underachievement vs resources awaits. All very depressing unless you are an AKB or an Arsenal money man

  70. Bard

    Aug 01, 2015, 10:55 #73409

    Just read that we have made Wally the highest earner at the club. This must be some sort of record for idiocy at the club. He doesnt have a football brain and he is never fit. Maybe we should consider resigning Diaby from Marseille for a club record fee.

  71. 80s Gooner

    Aug 01, 2015, 10:14 #73408

    The 1991 Charity Shield was one of the first major games to be broadcast by Sky pre-premiership. The only thing I can remember about the game was Andy Cole hitting the side netting with his only chance of the match. Shortly after that GG shipped him off to Bristol City as we already had Alan Smith, Kevin Campbell, Paul Meson & were only weeks away from signing Ian Wright

  72. jeff wright

    Aug 01, 2015, 9:32 #73407

    Yes, Hiccup it doesn't take much to upset the AKB 's they get irritated and start itching and scratching like old dogs with fleas when faced with any criticism of Arsene and prefer to over look the limitations of his management . We even have one posting about what he is having for dinner ! Then there is the genius Just A Gooner , I love these handles he dreams up and bestows on himself .He who doesent even know that we won the FAC in 2005 ! What a gooner he is,more like just a goner. Jesus wept ,you couldn't make it up.

  73. Westlower

    Aug 01, 2015, 9:21 #73406

    Nothing sucks the air out of a room like a pessimist. For those of you hoping for an Arsenal defeat tomorrow, hang your heads in shame. Your negative support is of no use to the team.

  74. Hiccup

    Aug 01, 2015, 9:03 #73405

    Jeff, I think you've overstepped the mark now. I can see why mentioning the charity shield and the super cup in the same sentence would cause such distress and irritation to some. You need to think about these timid souls when posting. God knows how they get through life if your posts are causing nervous breakdowns at AKB Central? Anyway, forwards and backwards.

  75. jeff wright

    Jul 31, 2015, 23:34 #73404

    Cup spot on for Gunners. Arsenal 0-0 Manchester United Arsenal win 5-4 on penalties. The FA Cup Final Saturday 21 May 2005 £1,000,000 to the winning club.... Oh ! It might be as well if some on here stuck to comentin on the article instead of posting stupid comments at others...

  76. Ashcroft

    Jul 31, 2015, 23:11 #73402

    I hope you Wenger Outs are all committed to the cause.After listening to Pierse Morgan on Talk Sport who claims to be the chief of the WOB, he seemed to spend most of his time whittering on about the England cricket team.

  77. just a gooner

    Jul 31, 2015, 22:53 #73401

    But jeff thought we won the fa cup in 2005. Don't let him irritate you irritated.

  78. jeff wright

    Jul 31, 2015, 22:12 #73400

    Irritated if you are suffering with a skin rash try calamine lotion it can be rather soothing ... I said some are trying to claim that the Shield is our version of the Super Cup not that the authour of the article did,perhaps you should also try visiting SpecSavers as well... I have read on here and elsewhere in the past and heard some suggest this comparison. Hardly anything to warrant getting upset over but as the actress said to the bishop... it takes all sorts... yes Hiccup of course I forgot that Arsene is the master of reverse psychology he will have it all sussed out as usual against Mourinho !

  79. just a gooner

    Jul 31, 2015, 21:59 #73399

    Jeff. This isn't the jeff wright show. Stop having hatred for the person who disagrees with your opinion. It's a website for the complete Arsenal fan. Love, hate, confused, eccentric, naive, pathetic. This website has it all but jeff, it's not just about you.

  80. Badarse

    Jul 31, 2015, 21:36 #73398

    Evening peeps. Canneloni was superb, accompanied by a Cotes De Rhone. Italian coffee right now. So, went to the pictured Shield game in '91-boring 0-0 draw. Wife wondered why lad was standing with his back to game singing at the mobsters the other side of the dividing fence. He was singing, 'When did you win the league, when did you...'. Laughingly translated the slurred singing explaining that it was their 30th anniversary. Zoom! Another 24 years flash by, a new generation grows up, and the singer sings the same song. Thanks Web. Admin.

  81. Hiccup

    Jul 31, 2015, 21:21 #73397

    Jeff, Chelsea playing their best 11 can only be to our benefit. If you recall, Mourinho was running scared last season, as he refused to rotate with his squad, and stuck with his first 11 for the majority of the season. I remember being told that this meant we had a stronger squad than them. And as we were reminded, Mourinho's ploy of sticking with the same team would be detrimental in the long run, as proved by them limping over the finish line with just a slender 12 point margin over arsenal. Fine margins and all that. If Chelsea play their first 11, they will run out of steam by December, and this time, we will be waiting to pounce. Inwards and outwards.

  82. Irritated

    Jul 31, 2015, 21:07 #73396

    Jeff - if you can't think of anything to say, you can always not say anything at all. After all, when you do say something it often shows your ignorance, like where you've mistaken the author claiming the Charity Shield is like the European Super Cup, when it's clearly not what he's said.

  83. jeff wright

    Jul 31, 2015, 20:02 #73395

    I can't think of any other trophy that has been shared by the two sides playing for it other than the Charity Shield . There is anomaly involved with that scenario but it does show how little the Shield meant. I have only been to one shield game the Liverpool one at Wembley in 1979 that we lost and as I recall it the game was played on a Saturday afternoon. On the way out I didn't have that gutted feeling like when it's a proper cup final that we had lost . On another note some trying to claim that the Shield is our version of the Super Cup are way off the mark. There is no comparison between the winners of the European Cup and the Uefa one playing each other for the Super Cup .The Uefa Cup is harder to win than the FA Cup. Wenger has won lots of FA Cups but never any of the two Euro ones over a 20 year period..... Obviously no offers that he couldn't refuse came in for Wally and he very sensibly (from his own point of view )signed on for another stint with us . Just in case he gets crocked on Sunday . Best be safe than sorry! Anyway , there is no way anyone other than Arsene would pay him those sort of wages that he has been awarded..... Mourinho says he has a full squad to choose from so we can safely assume that unlike City last term that the mouthy one and his crew will be taking the game seriously. In Wenger's favour is the fact that he has had 10 days more to get our players fit but on the down side the quality between the two starting elevens looks to be firmly in Mourinho's favour. Once again talk of injuries costing us last season have resurfaced like old recycled garbage as though this injury scenario , with Wenger for donkeys years having had the worst record in the league for injuries, being anything new. However , it is a fact that only Sanchez is irreplaceable in our squad , the Ramsey's and Welbeck's are easily covered for . Results last season when these players did play prove it . Without the Chilean though on parade with metronomic clock-work like regularity then we would have struggled to finish in the top 4. Will he be missed on Sunday >? Well, that depends on the result, if we beat Chelsea ,that is not impossible and Wenger is due a result against his nemesis, then Arsene will claim that this proves that we can manage without Sanchez, if we lose then it will be down to Sanchez being out recuperating from his not so great performances in the Copa Cup . Onwards and upwards !

  84. jjetplane

    Jul 31, 2015, 18:58 #73394

    Remember RON saying on a previous charity shield post (before charities went offshore) saying Wally is simply the most irritating player ever to put the shirt on. When you watch him closely he is all about calculation and effect. Never being in the present (a Futures man) probably explains his general ineptitude after a decade's coaching. the only thing he has in common with Henry is that they both started in a quick, directionless fashion which Henry grew out of real quick but Wally remains in that mire. That it is welded to a Becksie (sic) type quest to get as much money out of the game with little inventive contribution tells us all we need to know about the house of comfort that is Emiratesworld. Apart from that, tick off the shield with a Theo hatrick and 'we are good to go.' As regards good old Santi - no one came in for either and he still looks a bit knackered from that City game away where he carved out a reputation for being one of the best players in the universe. He is a fine lad but really .... i fear deep seated amusement from the likes of Sanchez and Ozil. Onwards and upwards and could someone tell Giroud that 'indulgent smiles' for missing the barn door do not maketh cases for trophy hunts. Right then - seeing Wormley Rovers tomorrow. Don't knock it - they are on you tube as are Arsenal. Small world, great game.

  85. Exeter Gunner

    Jul 31, 2015, 18:25 #73393

    Sorry, got my figures wrong. That's nearly £30m heading Wally's way from the AFC coffers for his treatment table and interview duties over the next 4 years. Still great value.

  86. Exeter Gunner

    Jul 31, 2015, 18:15 #73392

    Quite right, Bard. £12.5m invested in Wally over the next four years. In the second half of his 20s he's bound to get faster and less injury prone. Great deal for a part time 'super-sub'. I saw Wenger emphasised how popular he is off the field as one of the main reasons for doing the deal. It's so much nicer to have a collegial atmosphere while you're riding the gravy boat.

  87. Bard

    Jul 31, 2015, 17:59 #73391

    Good article as are the others but personally Im not that bothered about these pre season matches even if its a chance to test ourselves against better opposition. We beat City last year and then were out of the race by Christmas. Of course if we win it we will have secured 3 trophies and could be on for the septuple if we go on to win the league cup FAC, PL and CL. I think we can do it now we have Wally signed up for £140k a week and anyone who says we cant isn't a true fan.

  88. Badarse

    Jul 31, 2015, 16:07 #73390

    Wonderful article, so interesting, enjoyed it more than most others I have read for a while. Am officially a culchee someone outside of Dublin-bit like a carrot-cruncher I think. Ate out last night, went native and chose an Italian. Some nice red R/K and good Italian coffee to finish-they could learn a bit from other nations on the cheese board front though-homemade Cannelloni tonight-this Irish nosh is so tasty. Dublin parkrun for Charlie and the wife tomorrow. Now what's been going on in my absinthe? jeff waddled off-had a quick quack, then waddled back, jj holds court, hitching up his tennis skirt and showing his bare bum-now that is a poster! Ron re-enters the fray-excited by Sharipova-irritating little cow, Martina could lick her any day, goonercolesyboy staging a gunfight at the KO coral-shooting and shattering the WOB distortion mirrors, Jamerson history(?), Ashcroft-think he is Sherlock's younger brother-settles in on Chanel No.5- posting with more common scents. Just like the the fate of the Avon Lady...Max Factor.

  89. maguiresbridge gooner (the real one)

    Jul 31, 2015, 15:30 #73389

    There have been numerous damp squibs since that over the last ten years, even with our Guy Faulks keeping his powder so dry, so it'll come as no surprise if Sundays another one ( with all this dry powder not being used) but we can expect plenty of flashing and banging both on and off the pitch(for some anyway) with a victory, Viagra won't be needed for a week not until the inevitable droop returns anyway.

  90. jeff wright

    Jul 31, 2015, 15:16 #73388

    Sorry that last post is of-topic but I can't think of anything to say about the Charity Shield so carried on with the vein of comments on the last thread!

  91. jeff wright

    Jul 31, 2015, 15:05 #73386

    All the multi-name posting and trolling by the AKB only shows how desperate they are in their grim battle to try and prove Arsene knows best.( yawn