#ThrowbackThursday - Arsenal v Stoke

A look back at past visits from this weekend’s opponents



#ThrowbackThursday - Arsenal v Stoke

Charlie celebrates victory over Stoke with a fellow Gooner


As shown by this footage from Arsenal Fan TV, in the years since Stoke City returned to the Premiership in 2008, such a degree of intensity has developed between Arsenal and Stoke that a neutral observer with no pre-conceptions might have mistaken this for a local derby, with Stoke hailing from Stoke Newington, instead of Stoke-on-Trent. The fact that the latter has very little in common with the recently gentrified area of London N16 however, probably goes some way to sustaining Stoke’s animosity with all things Arsenal and its perceived embodiment of bourgeois metropolitan sensibilities.

The last census showed a total of 24.2% of non-pensioner households in Stoke-on-Trent were recorded as having no working adults and with this in mind, it's tempting to portray Stoke as some sort of cultural dark hole. However, as hard as it is to believe from a modern day perspective, Stoke-on-Trent (as well as other Northern outposts such as Wigan) were during the 1970s a cultural epicentre due to its famed Golden Torch night club and its role within the Northern Soul scene of 'all-nighters', which was effectively the birth of British club culture as we know it and revolved around lesser known obscure Motown and Soul tracks such as these.

In contrast to the rise in profile of its football side in recent years, Stoke-on-Trent is a city that in recent decades has had to come to terms with the loss of its three major industries: Coal mining, the production of Steel and - the industry from which its football club derives its nickname – pottery manufacturing. The man who made Stoke-on-Trent such a force within the Pottery industry during the eighteenth century is Josiah Wedgwood – founder of the Wedgwood pottery company, as well as a prominent slavery abolitionist and distant relative to old Labour firebrand Anthony Wedgwood-Benn (aka Tony Benn) who famously renounced his birth right of a hereditary peerage to remain in the House of Commons. Josiah was also the grandfather of Charles Darwin, which makes it kind of ironic that the man who brought you the theory evolution would have a familial link to the City where the under-evolved Ryan Shawcross and Charlie Adam would later ply their trade.

To get back to the football side of things, Stoke City - far from being Wimbledon-style Johnny come-lately upstarts to the Football world actually have quite a long and illustrious history, being as they are the world's second oldest professional football side behind Notts County, founded in 1863. Another unfathomable fact about Stoke City, given their meat pie and Bovril image, is that they were founded as Stoke Ramblers FC by a group of apprentices at the North Staffordshire Railway company who were former public schoolboys from Charterhouse (based in Godalming in Surrey) carrying on the past-time of their school days.

For the record, the former Charterhouse alumni include former Prime Ministers such as the Second Earl of Liverpool, creator of the Boy Scouts Lord Baden Powell, creator of the modern welfare state Lord Beveridge, former editor of The Times and vice chairman of the BBC Lord Rees Mogg, the Dimbleby Brothers, the founder members of prog-rockers Genesis and the man who discovered them, disgraced pop impresario Jonathan King. In contrast, despite the fact that the Arsenal board have had many old Etonians, the founding fathers of Arsenal were humble Woolwich migrant factory workers from Scotland and the north of England.

Another irony, given Arsene Wenger's tagging of Stoke City as a 'Rugby' team, is that the Charterhouse School of their founding fathers were instrumental in the development of the rules of association football moving further away from the Rugby code during the 1860s. Charterhouse representatives (along with Westminster School) had pushed for a passing game instead of the rough and tumble rules which had been developed in schools such as Rugby, due to the fact that being based in London meant they were more restricted with the space of their playing field. In 1867, the FA further ruled in favour of the Charterhouse way of Football by adapting the offside rule to include forward passing.

By 1871, such was the estrangement of schools such as Rugby and Blackheath that they founded the Rugby Union to pursue a game closer to that of their preferred code. Also, the old boy side of Charterhouse - Old Carthusians - would win the 1881 FA Cup Final at Kennington Oval, which would be the last to be contested between two amateur sides, beating Old Etonians 3-0. Meanwhile, Charterhouse's northern offshoot, Stoke Ramblers, had merged with the Stoke Victory Cricket club in 1878 and hence became known as Stoke FC (the 'City' part of their moniker added when the town were granted city status in 1928) who played their home fixtures at the Victoria Ground, turning professional in 1885 and becoming founder members of the Football League in 1888.

The history of Arsenal fixtures against Stoke dates back to 1904, however a fifteen year gap between fixtures occurred between 1907 and 1922 as Stoke went bankrupt and drifted into non-league football, returning back into the league fold after the First World War. The earliest available footage of an Arsenal fixture at home to Stoke City comes from a 1956/57 FA Cup 3rd Round tie in which Arsenal ran out 4-2 winners, with goals from Joe Haverty, Derek Tapscott and two for David Herd. Stoke City have never won the League title, however their halcyon age came with appointment of Tony Waddington as manager in 1960, returning to the top flight in 1963/64 and there exists footage here of Arsenal’s opening league fixture of the 1965/66 season against Stoke City, which Arsenal won 2-1 with two goals for Joe Baker (this game is of historical reference due to the fact that it was the first Arsenal fixture where substitutes were permitted and the first time Arsenal played without white sleeves since 1933, although they were to return two seasons later).

One notable game for Stoke during the 1960s that was caught for posterity by the TV cameras came against a West Ham side with three World Cup winners at the Boleyn Ground in October 1967, where the Potters pulled back a three goal deficit to win 4-3. On Stoke's return to the top flight, Arsenal overwhelmingly held the balance of power with just one Stoke City victory prior to the turn of the decade, a 1-4 defeat for Arsenal at the Victoria Ground in December 1964. In Arsenal’s double season of 1970/71, the Gunners were rocked by a 0-5 away defeat at Stoke’s Victoria Ground in September, followed by the FA Cup Semi-final in late March at Hillsborough which saw Arsenal 0-2 down through gifting two soft goals to Stoke by half time. Arsenal however staged second half fight back, with two goals for Peter Storey, the first a volley and the second a last minute penalty. Stoke were to feel aggrieved as they felt the four minutes added on for stoppages were unwarranted as there had been no second half injuries whatsoever.

Arsenal comprehensively won the replay 2-0 with a bullet header from George Graham and a second from Ray Kennedy. Before the FA Cup final would be one more fixture against Stoke City on the final Saturday of the season on May 1st with a 1-0 win at Highbury secured with an Eddie Kelly winner, captured here by an ITN bulletin (the newscaster, if I'm not mistaken is a young Martin Bell, who later stood as a white suited independent candidate in the Tatton constituency in the 1997 General election to humiliate the sitting Conservative Neil Hamilton). This victory came 48 hours before Arsenal headed up the Seven Sisters Road on Mayday bank holiday to secure the league title, followed by the FA Cup the following Saturday.

Stoke City however were not downhearted and returned the following season, defeating Arsenal at Highbury 0-1 the following August. Stoke were to finally bag their first major trophy with the League Cup in 1971/72, facing West Ham in the Semi-Final which went to a replay after Gordon Banks had saved from fellow 1966 World Cup hero Geoff Hurst at Upton Park. In the replay at Old Trafford, after West Ham goalkeeper Ferguson went off injured, substitute goalkeeper Bobby Moore nearly pulled off an audacious penalty save, however Stoke went through 3-2 after a winner from Terry Conroy. Stoke were also to prevail in the final against Chelsea with a 2-1 victory secured with a winner from Arsenal old boy, 36 year old George Eastham. Stoke were also in the running for a then unprecedented League Cup and FA Cup double, again meeting Arsenal in the Semi Final at Hillsborough.

As with the League Cup Semi, Stoke were boosted by an injury to the opposition goalkeeper, with ITN footage showing an injury to Arsenal keeper Bob Wilson, which was to keep him out for the rest of the season. Arsenal held on for a 1-1 draw with John Radford covering in goal. The replay took place at Goodison Park four days later, with Stoke taking the lead with a penalty from Jimmy Greenhoff. Charlie George equalised from the penalty spot and John Radford carried on his heroics of a few days earlier by popping up with the winner, as Arsenal went on to a 2-1 win. Stoke would feel aggrieved again as an allegedly offside Radford had only been considered by the linesman to be onside as he mistook a programme seller in the crowd for a Stoke defender.

In 1972, Stoke would boost their side by signing 1966 World Cup hero Geoff Hurst from West Ham. There would also be a further trophy win for this Stoke City side, however they would have to make do with the Watney Cup in 1973. In 1973/74, Stoke had ended a twenty nine match unbeaten run by Leeds United with a 3-2 win over Don Revie’s side (a record number of unbeaten games from the start of the season which would last another thirty years until surpassed by Arsenal’s Invincibles in 2003/04). In the opening league fixture of 1974/75 Stoke would be the undoing of reigning League Champions Leeds again, by pulling off a 3-0 win which aided the early exit of Brian Clough from Elland Road after just forty four days, as well as nearly pulling off a result against the formidable Ajax side of the early to mid-1970s. After holding Ajax to a 1-1 draw at the Victoria Ground, Stoke dominated the second leg but failed to find the net and went out on away goals.

During the middle part of the 1970s Stoke City would boost their push for the big time by spending big in the transfer market, capturing Alan Hudson from Chelsea for a club record of £240,000, followed by Peter Shilton from Stoke for £325,000, which was then a world record fee for a goalkeeper in December 1974. Tony Waddington's Stoke City however would have to wait until August 1975 before finally getting their own back on Arsenal for the two semi-final defeats, with a 0-1 defeat inflicted by a goal from future Gunner Alan Hudson. As will be seen tomorrow however - an act of God later that season would lead to a decline in fortune for Tony Waddington and Stoke City’s great side of the early to mid-1970s.

Part two follows tomorrow

*Follow me on Twitter@robert_exley


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27
comments

  1. Ron

    Sep 12, 2015, 12:00 #75627

    Thanks Westie - 2-1 today to Gunners. ps dont you just get sick of hearing Mn U v Liverpool described as the 'biggest game in football'? Who do they think theyre f ing kidding mate? One team not having won a title in 25 yrs though calling themselves 'Utd's rival'. The other team admittedly a massive Club but managed by a guy that seems like a loon to me presently with a record over 27 games that Moyes had!! Have they ever had a title decider together with a genuine rival in a proper local derby like we had in 71 or 2004? I seriously doubt it. Ive never figured that. How can two teams 35 miles apart class it as a derby? Its a City rivalry admittedly but it cant be a 'derby' can it? Just isnt the proximity of geography or community. Its the 'community' angle that makes a derby for me. A lot of our fans started to class Utd as the real rival when we were head to head. My view? Never! Tottenham are our real and genuine rival in all respects, even if they were in Non League. Saturday dinner time rant over Westie.

  2. Westlower

    Sep 12, 2015, 9:58 #75626

    @Ron & SKG, Sir Stanley Matthews retired on 6th Feb 1965. His last game was against Fulham, so he didn't play at Highbury on the opening game of the 65/66 season. I don't have the Stoke team but players on their books at that time were John Ritchie, Dennis Violet, Eric Skeels, Alan Bloor, Tony Allen, Peter Dobing, Harry Burrows & Arthur Watkin. Gordon Banks & Terry Conroy didn't join Stoke until 67 & Jimmy Greenoff in 69. Alan Hudson played for Stoke 1974-76 before joining Arsenal.

  3. Westlower

    Sep 12, 2015, 9:27 #75625

    @Ron & SKG, The attendance was 30,100 for the home game v Stoke in 65. The Arsenal team: Furnell, Howe, McCullough, Ure, Neill, McLintock, Court, Baldwin, Baker, Eastham, Armstrong.

  4. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 11, 2015, 17:06 #75617

    Ron : So right about the crowd - yep about 32,000. Dad always said if you looked across at eye level into the North Bank or Clock End and you could n't see a collar or the top of a coat it is 50,000 plus. I know you and I think the same but did n't Joe spin that ball into the back of net with such precision. In a split second he was that half yard ahead and bang, never any back lift and very rarely did he miss in the box - lovely footage, what price a JB today!

  5. Ron

    Sep 11, 2015, 16:54 #75616

    SK - Ive just had another look. Its so hard to tell. Lots of Reggie Kray haircuts about isnt there! Must be great for you to see that knowing you were there? Im guessing 32/34000 were in that day. What you reckon? Can always tell once youve been to a ground a few times cant you.

  6. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 11, 2015, 16:07 #75614

    Ron : What a good point - could that be Sir Stan just after a crafty puff on a Craven A? I will dig out my programmes and check, he did play at 50 years of age so could chance you are right. Don Howe looked good did n't he, adding a bit of thought to our woeful defence. Must say Jim Furnell made a couple of very brave saves - I love the clip and knowing I was at the game with me dad makes it even better.

  7. Ron

    Sep 11, 2015, 15:24 #75613

    SKG - just saw that clip. Good quality. King Joe! The Don in there too. Ure as well! i cd be wrong but is that Stanley Matthews for Stoke? Start of the clip - diagonal dribble across the centre circle? What do you reckon? I know he retired in 65 aged 50 so cd be him?

  8. Mark from Aylesbury

    Sep 11, 2015, 13:04 #75607

    Jameson - you still don't get it do you. A significant percentage of Arsenal yes repeat again Arsenal supporters don't actually like Wenger. A greater percentage put up with him at best. Perhaps the rest say oh never mind. Whatever you puff on about a large group of supporters are seriously pissed off with him and the board. You are therefore calling on thousands to change their attitude. It isn't going to happen in fact the resentment is growing. Lesson number 2 it ain't Arsenal we are pissed off with so attempts to play the loyalty card will fail. It is not disloyal to promote competition and team strength. I think your late entrance to the Arsenal fold after yours years of support for Hampshire based teams and probable allegiance to Chelsea bind you to Wenger not Arsenal. What will you do when he leaves?

  9. Ron

    Sep 11, 2015, 10:22 #75603

    SKG - Good point re Hughes. I think given the chance at a top job he d actually do very well. His time at Manch City was a strange time for them (and him) as the new owners were settling in and Hughes was stuck with having to buy 2nd tier types like Adebayor and Co to help them get a foot on the ladder so to speak. He s a very solid and shrewd operator and has mellowed too i feel. Stoke's progress under Hughes seems assured.

  10. Exeter Gunner

    Sep 11, 2015, 9:47 #75601

    "If you're not prepared to pay the cash you shouldn't whinge about transfers." I agree Jamerson, what was Wenger doing whinging about Martial?

  11. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 11, 2015, 8:44 #75600

    We are building: In the 70's they were a very good side and I think they have a good manager now in Hughes. Their new Swiss forward Shaqiri needs watching, he hangs on the last man and his movement along the line is very good. Westflower you like a bet, I would have a punt on him scoring in a 2-1 Arsenal win.

  12. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Sep 11, 2015, 8:26 #75599

    Can we leave the Stoke neanderthal thing behind now please? Yes they were overtly physical in their first couple of seasons back, Oh dear our poor bunch of pussies didn't like it up em back in 2008/09/10 did they, and that 1-3 defeat in 2011 was one of the top 10 away surrenders in the club's history. Stoke are actually a decent side nowadays, well run and well managed. Like it or lump it.

  13. Mark from Aylesbury

    Sep 11, 2015, 8:19 #75598

    Jameson- surprised you haven't got used to it. On the Internet forums there are more of us than you "Tina's" and we will continue to the day he goes. Ps. Did you like him squirming about not being a liar. That means the press are calling him a liar. Not very nice way to treat your messiah is it!

  14. Smithy

    Sep 11, 2015, 7:50 #75597

    I see arsenals diagnosis team are still using stones bones and animal entrails to treat welbeck and wilshere!American sport is state of the art ours is state of the ark!The spirit of Diaby is still being channeled by ug ug and um um in arsenals medical team!

  15. What's all the fuss

    Sep 11, 2015, 0:41 #75596

    It appears that there are about a dozen regular moaners on here, not sure what percentage that is Westlower of the fan base.

  16. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 10, 2015, 20:03 #75593

    Ron : There is great footage of Joe Baker turning on a sixpence and scoring in the 1965 2-1 win, really good quality film. (Let the film run right through - some great footage of the fans and ground)

  17. Exeter Gunner

    Sep 10, 2015, 20:02 #75592

    Ever found yourself disagreeing with Wenger, Terry? As only Arsenal, throughout Europe, found it impossible to improve upon the team, we must assume they are the complete article and therefore a PL and CL double will follow.

  18. Peter Wain

    Sep 10, 2015, 13:43 #75584

    Yes Storey did play in the final but was not fit thanks to Conroy I think. Eddie Kelly came on for him. Stoke were a nasty side in 1971 and they certainly kicked us in the first game at Hillsborough. I think Charlie George went off injured and it was only Storey and Mclintock who played well. Their first goal was a lucky block of a Simpson clearance and then Charlie George made a bad back pass.

  19. chris dee

    Sep 10, 2015, 13:29 #75583

    Mentioned it before but the Hillsborough Semi was one of the best days of my life.I was still a teenager whose only interests were Arsenal,girls and listening to the Stones,The Who,the Small Faces and Dylan.Happy Days! 2-O down at half time, then we get it to 2-1.A last minute corner, Sir Francis McLintock leaps and his header is handled on the line.Penalty!Can't look but then a deafening roar,Peter Storey had scored.Relief,mayhem,jubilation pure joy! And the journey home in my mates Ford Anglia only seemed about 10 minutes, such was our euphoria. We then sorted Stoke out at Villa Park.

  20. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 10, 2015, 13:16 #75581

    Peter : Not sure but did n't Storey play in the final but had to go off to make way for Eddie Kelly?

  21. Avenell Road

    Sep 10, 2015, 13:07 #75579

    Interesting article, i feel educated! Also interesting to note from a personal point of view that just reading the words Arsene Wenger caused by blood pressure to rise - can't be healthy!

  22. Peter Wain

    Sep 10, 2015, 13:04 #75578

    In the 1971 league game I understand that Storey was crocked deliberately by a stoke player so he missed the cup final. Anyway nice to hear OGL say we have to support the team etc etec. The problem is if the people we have re not doing the business I think considering the amount of our season ticket prices we are very muc ntitled to ask why no new players Why no DM why no striker and why are we having price increases at all when we d not buy any ne. Sack he scouting staff and save money that way because they are all redundant.

  23. mbg

    Sep 10, 2015, 12:29 #75574

    The neanhendrals certainly had OGL's number for quite a while (just like all the others do)but at least pullis is no longer their manager, not that that matters of course.

  24. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 10, 2015, 11:59 #75571

    The game May 1st 71 v Stoke, penultimate game of the season at home in the league, we leading 1-0 and playing very nervy. Stoke get a chance near the end, Wilson is beaten and from nowhere John Radford some how clears the ball of the line. My heart stopped beating for the rest of that game but we prevailed, however the feeling was we would need to up our game for the May 3rd decider against the Spuds - thankfully we were magnificent!

  25. Ron

    Sep 10, 2015, 11:40 #75569

    Waddingtons side was a really good team. Played some fantastic football. Conroy Dobing Greenhoff Shilton and Co. Very progressive.Always recall Hillsboro. Stoke had the great chances to win that 4-2 and should have done. Stoke City are a good Club and always have been. The media have stoked up the animosity since they were promoted and aided and abetted by the Shawcross incident, they keep it alive as long as the fans let them. Arsenals fans are self concious though going there and Stokes fans know it. This has emerged as those of us who've been there a few times have seen Wenger and his brittle teams bottle it, in a quite disgraceful manner on 3 occasions. Going there has caused much embarrassment to our visiting fans and Wengers constant historic griping and bellyaching hasnt helped the situation between the Clubs fans at all.

  26. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 10, 2015, 11:18 #75567

    Great Piece Robert : That Stoke team of 71 - 72 was a very good outfit and had some classy players - I thought Jimmy Greenhoff was one of the most intelligent footballers in the 1st Div, he had a great knack of arriving late, unmarked to finish off moves. If you think today's Stoke are abrasive, that 70's team would have finished them off in the warm ups! I have some good friends who are "Potters" and their hatred for us is because of those two semi final, they had us beaten but each time we clawed our way back - I think it was more grudging respect than hatred then, now, yes it is pure dislike. As an aside, the new Stoke Swiss forward Shaqiri, looks a bit of a wild card to me but the way he hangs on the shoulders of defenders could cause us a few problems - he is pantomime villain material.

  27. Wear Your Colours

    Sep 10, 2015, 10:28 #75565

    Robert, it is interesting to learn about the contrasting origins of the two clubs. Listening to live coverage of the 1971 semi-final on the radio as a young kid is among my earliest recollections of football . So grateful that Peter Storey held his nerve to keep us in the tie and on track for the double. COYG!