Arsenal shoot themselves in the foot

Online Ed: Bad start to Champions League campaign



Arsenal shoot themselves in the foot


Arsene Wenger, obviously with an eye on Saturday’s lunchtime kick off against Chelsea, rotated his side for the visit to Dynamo Zagreb, and the gamble did not pay off. Whether Olivier Giroud remaining on the pitch would have made any difference, we will never know, but his sending off sort of summed up Arsenal’s night. Indisciplined and careless. Of course, Dynamo were one up by that time.

In fairness, early on, Giroud did create problems. A goalbound header from a corner was well saved, and he, perhaps fortuitously, hit the post from a subsequent header he probably didn’t know too much about. He protested to the referee about being pushed, and ended up with a yellow card. The way I saw the sending off was that the ref brandished a straight red, although I stand to be corrected there. Either way, at that point, the draw was the best his remaining colleagues could hope for.

However, Arsenal’s play was perhaps a little reminiscent of the West Ham match in that they did not seem to have much in the way of real drive about them. It was lacklustre stuff, in spite of enjoying most of the possession. Dynamo simply looked more dangerous, and crucially determined in the challenge. Their Champions League record is pretty woeful, and perhaps Arsene Wenger’s team selection underestimated their threat. Was there an arrogance about the Gunners last night? A notion that they just had to turn up to win. It’s not the first time Wenger has rotated in Europe and failed to get the expected result. He has got away with it before, in that his team have qualified from the group stage, but at times, it has cost him first place. With Bayern’s win in Greece, there seems little doubt they will finish first in this group. Arsenal can still finish second, but will be relying on Bayern to beat everyone else out of sight.

Mikel Arteta, Mathieu Debuchy and Kieran Gibbs have not seen much first team action so far this season. All were culpable in the Dynamo goals. The corner that made it 2-0 was especially shocking. Kieran Gibbs ducked out of the header, hardly got off the ground. This isn’t defending, it’s abdication. The lad has shown moments of defensive brilliance, but really and truly, he’s not up to it, presumably converted from an attacking player early in his career. He does not have the ‘thou shall not pass’ attitude one wants to see from an Arsenal defender. Laurent Koscielny has proved suspect physically more than once in the past. Fine on the floor, but in the air he is bullied far too easily. Let’s call a spade a spade here. Arsenal need defenders who can handle the likes of a Didier Drogba at his peak. How many have they had since Sol Campbell left the club in 2006? This is Arsenal. A club whose reputation was initially built on a strong defence. The Battle of Highbury anyone? The current mob would be cowering in the dressing room. If players are frightened of the ball touching their head, then wear a protective helmet or something. They are paid enough to take the odd whack.

Zagreb was supposed to be an intimidating venue. All I saw on the box was a half empty stadium with an athletics track putting a massive distance between the stands and the pitch.

Arsenal, with their six changes, played like half a team, all possession with no real purpose. There was a bit of a reaction in the second half, some actual goal threat, but it was 2-0 by that point. This was supposed to be the easiest away trip in the group, yet the visitors were far too casual. Simply not tight enough at the back. Arsene Wenger has managed more games in the Champions League than most of the teams taking part in it have played, the commentators told us. One might be justified in asking what exactly he’s learnt in that time.

Interesting comment from Ian Wright in the studio when discussing Arsenal’s summer in the transfer market. Speaking about the post David Dein era, “a lot of deals have not happened because of the stalling and the dithering,” a reference to Arsene Wenger’s inability to seal a deal. Perhaps, with a different individual having the final say in transfer negotiations, the club might have a better squad, able to cope with rotation. But at Arsenal these days, no-one seems to take responsibility, which kind of sums up the two Dynamo goals last night.

A triple substitution saw the Ox, Arteta and Gibbs removed for Walcott, Coquelin and Joel Campbell and Arsenal made a bit of a fist of things for the last 20 minutes. A well-taken Walcott goal was the consequence, but it was too high a mountain to climb. That can’t be said of the group itself, but Arsenal will need to beat Olympiacos and Dynamo at home, and hope to take something from the two matches with Bayern. Otherwise, they may find themselves relying on avoiding defeat in the December match in Greece.

However, one thing that last night demonstrated is that the club are in this competition for its financial rewards, rather than its glory. They are nowhere near credible contenders to be in Milan next May. Looking to the future, a change in manager and recruitment policy will be necessary for the club to ever win this particular trophy. Ivan Gazidis suggested the club can match Bayern Munich in a couple of years back in 2013. Hmmmm…..

Chelsea away, Tottenham away, Leicester away. Things might get worse before they get better. Tin hats at the ready.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

The current issue of The Gooner will be on sale at the away game v Chelsea next weekend. It can also be bought online here. Issue 253 should be on sale at the Leicester away game and Olympiacos at home

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126
comments

  1. Moscow Gooner

    Sep 20, 2015, 7:31 #76007

    I thought it was funny that the Beeb recycled on their website the Wenger line that Arsenal were at a disadvantage to Chelsea because of their 'long' flight back from Zagreb. It's a little over 2 hours. And on a charter flight a good deal more comfortable than being stuck in traffic on the M25 coming back from a training session at London Colney. They don't seem to have registered that we have moved on from the Dakota era... Anyone else remember the days when the team would travel back by coach from places like Burnley and Leeds? You had a chance to actually talk to the players at service stations in the M6. It didn't seem to adversely affect the fighting spirit of guys like Frankie McLintock and Peter Storey....

  2. Danny

    Sep 19, 2015, 15:07 #75963

    Looks like arrogant wenger cannot beat chelsea again useless !

  3. JollyJumper

    Sep 19, 2015, 1:30 #75950

    Kevin, you are too nice to Wenger. He is arrogant, a lier, tactically clueless, he must go... 6 years ago. Klopp, Ancelotti are free. Book Klopp during his sabbatical, as Bayern did with Guardiola. You mentioned the West Ham match. Dinamo Zagreb consulted Slaven Bilic and Nikola Jurcevic (Head / 1st team coach West Ham). Some time ago, Wenger had problems with this duo when they were with Besiktas. We all have seen the game and the result vs West Ham. In Zagreb it was the exact copy. Furthermore, Dinamo scouted Wenger by Dean Klafuric, ex National Coach for Croatian Ladies plus a 'friendly' English scout (sorry, no names here!) was in Zagreb last week. The practice sessions were closed to public, etc. In brief, Dinamo Zagreb WAS PREPARED for our tactically clueless manager. Yes, Dinamo was winless in 15 Champions League games (D2 L13), last winning against Sturm Graz in September 1999 (3-0). Yes, Dinamo had lost their last six meetings with English opposition, conceding 16 goals in the process, but they were PREPARED. Another 'The Best of Wenger'. And please, do not start me on the team selection! Any manager keeping Arteta, Rosicky and Flamini (3 valuable places for the new players) last two years in the team, should be sacked. Good players, nice people, but not anymore for Arsenal. All should have been gone by the end of 13/14 season. You asked what exactly Wenger had learnt in last 19 years? Nothing!! He was modern when came to England, but the other catched up and now for last 10 years he is far, far behind what Arsenal FC needs. The trouble is that for 3-4 last years, I do not care anymore. I hate Arsène FC, I love Arsenal FC. The only thing I am expecting from AFC News is to read that OGL was sacked. A happy day to come. Keep the good work up, Kevin. COYG!

  4. Badarse

    Sep 18, 2015, 18:11 #75947

    See it again 24601...whenever! Closest to you on this tour is Peterboro' in the new year, then it immediately sinks to the 9th tier and travels to Eastbourne. 'Living on the never never. Constant as the changing weather. Never sure, who's at the door, or the price I'll have to pay...for that DM and CF'. I think Theo is doing a 'Sterling' job at the moment-and isn't as foolish. He would probably do very well in the set up you suggest. We might even see the best of Mesut with those three speed merchants feeding off his quality passes-he would be at his most effective playing to speedy players. Agree about young Aaron being found a spot, I see him as the glue in the side. You have my vote so will give Arsene a tinkle around ten o'clock tonight to ask him to give it a try-he gets in from bingo sometime after nine, then has his cocoa, (mustn't disturb that).

  5. Exeter Gunner

    Sep 18, 2015, 17:25 #75943

    Chris - what Bard said. Plus, Wenger's repeated mistake is to have too much faith in a squad which he states are ready to challenge for the PL and CL. Or perhaps he doesn't have that faith but reckons he has enough for the true aim of a minor place in the top 4 and Round of 16. So either he's deluded or he's lying when he states such things. Which do you think it is?

  6. mbg

    Sep 18, 2015, 16:37 #75937

    Bard, don't you know we have a full squad of internationals.

  7. Bard

    Sep 18, 2015, 16:27 #75936

    Chris; if we had Cavanni instead of Giroud then he wouldnt have got himself sent off and we might have won and the current debate wouldnt be happening but we didnt do anything and the squad remains weak. Im not bothered about mistakes, they happen, but if you are going to properly challenge for titles and cups you have to have the squad to do it, and as was patently obvious on Wednesday we dont and that then puts huge pressure on the first choice players.

  8. Tony Evans

    Sep 18, 2015, 15:40 #75931

    Westie - agree with your team selection but you can bet the master tactician will have Ramsey out wide as usual like a fish out of water.

  9. Highbury Boy

    Sep 18, 2015, 15:28 #75929

    I don't know what any of you are worried about. Profits and turnover are well up and as at the end of May over £193,000,000 was sitting the bank account.

  10. mbg

    Sep 18, 2015, 15:11 #75927

    Hiccup, it looks like he has another selection problem also, to shake hands with his opposite number after the match, i guess it depends on the result.

  11. Westlower

    Sep 18, 2015, 14:53 #75926

    @Badarse, You're one up on me as I've only seen it twice. There's a full moon shining & a joker in the pack. The dealers dealt the cards & he won't take them back. I know you're not Theo's greatest fan but do you think he should be given an extended run while Giroud is out of sorts? The pace & mobility of a front 3 of Theo, Alexis & Ox would make them hard to mark & negate the need for overlapping full backs. That would enable us to play defensive full backs Debuchy & Monreal alongside Gabriel/BFG & Kos. Coq & Ramsey in midfield, with Ramsey bombing forward when we're in possession of the ball. Give Ozil a free role supplying the passes. If I was picking tomorrows team that's what I'd go with.

  12. Hiccup

    Sep 18, 2015, 14:40 #75925

    mag, Wenger was so busy trying to zip up his sleeping bag, he ended up stuck at the Hungarian border. You can just imagine the kerfuffle as he spent an hour trying to find his passport as he went through all his pocket zips.

  13. mbg

    Sep 18, 2015, 14:21 #75923

    Hiccup, i'd have imagined Giroud pulling a cart with blinkers on and a nose bag, with the ox in reserve in case he got tired, and wally holding the reins steering him up the ramp onto the ferry.

  14. Chris

    Sep 18, 2015, 14:16 #75921

    Bard - well that would be my next point. If you change Arteta for Schneiderlin then perhaps there wouldn't have been a 'mistake' at all. Exeter - if you've got the stats to hand, perhaps you can tell how often Wenger has rotated and won and how often it hasn't worked? Then we can make a reasoned judgement as to why Wenger my have thought it would work on this occasion.

  15. Arseneknewbest

    Sep 18, 2015, 14:12 #75920

    What have we done to deserve this? The execrable, apostrophe-phobic jamie son and badarse both back on the same day...It's not been our week. Let's hope bad luck doesn't come in threes because if it does, either AFC or the English rugby team are going to suffer a setback this weekend.

  16. Hiccup

    Sep 18, 2015, 13:45 #75916

    Looks like Wenger has got selection problems for tomorrow's game. I was wrongly under the impression that the squad took a 2 hour flight back from Zagreb, but it transpires the players had to make their own ways back. I can see why westie is so concerned about the team being at an unfair advantage now. Half the team arrived back this morning after driving back in a Peugeot 107, six in a car! Ozil is currently in Germany on a moped, with Giroud on the back. Walcott and Cazorla decided to hitchhike back and have not phoned in yet with their whereabouts. Sanchez had cycled back but is now stuck at Calais. I am now more than happy to blame excessive travelling for a poor result tomorrow. A midday kick off to boot, and it's clear the FA are stitching us up, again!

  17. Bard

    Sep 18, 2015, 13:38 #75915

    A warm welcome to the returnees. Refreshed no doubt after a rest from the cut and thrust on this site. I also notice that one of our brothers is having a prolonged identity crisis in the course of which he is falling foul of the Ed. I refer to dear Jamerson. If its any consolation I too had a similar period in my life when I was equally confused. I didnt know whether I was a striker or a marauding left sided midfielder. I wrote a book about it called 'who the f*** am I'. True it didnt become a best seller but it touched many tortured souls. I heartily recommend it in the hope that Jamerson can reconcile the conflicting forces. Meanwhile the debate over whether Wenger made a mistake with team changes completely misses the central point which is that many in the squad are, surprise, surprise, not up to the job. So we go into a long season having to field our first choice 11 with very little room for rotation. This will catch up with us as it always does later in the season.

  18. mbg

    Sep 18, 2015, 12:56 #75908

    jw, yes he has a record for that, but one we'll not hear about to often.

  19. mbg

    Sep 18, 2015, 12:46 #75907

    It's the weekend again and another chance to get over and put the latest blip behind us, now we'll hear from the wenger apologists, i'd take a draw, and if we're not thumped and get it even a 0-0 it'll be a good result, and we can take positives from it/this and move on and build on it. You couldn't make it up.

  20. jeff wright

    Sep 18, 2015, 12:30 #75904

    As it happens Chris I predicted BEFORE the game against the never won a match in the CL Zagreb that Wenger would make the same mistake that he did against Roma when we lost to them and then to City away on the Saturday. It won't be the biggest shock ever if history repeats its self and we lose now at the bridge over troubled waters.Even arthritic Arteta says confidence would have been higher had we beaten the Croats instead of losing to them . I stick with my view that Arsene is arrogant although I colncede that he is also deluded and doesn't show enough respect to some opponents. He should have played his best side v Zagreb starting with Cech in goal,why was he rested ? Crazy stuff this from arrogant Arsene . Wenger's stubbornness ( stubbornness being another one of his less than likeable traits) persistence in retaining the clumsy clown Giroud ... oh how did he miss that ! for our main striker is delusional because anyone not needing a white stick can see that he is not good enough. Wally does what Wally does,he comes on late and scores goals - sometimes. 140K a week though for a player who spends more time on the bench than on the pitch is not in my view brilliant management and as we know only too well it's only a matter of time before Wally hits a bad patch of form or gets injured again. That leaves us with just one striker - Giroud ! You couldn't make it up.

  21. Badarse

    Sep 18, 2015, 12:26 #75903

    Hi 24601, nice to connect. If clothes maketh the man, (and woman julesd), he is one lad who doesn't need a 'whistle' to achieve that-just the shirt with the badge! Yes a win would be a nice celebration for his birthday, and for all our 'unbirthdays'. Saw 'Blood Brothers' on tour on Tuesday, my third occasion. Bit like Arsenal, lost nothing over the years, magic still abounds and just as stunning! Sixteen again? Look out here we come, it's the 'March of the Mods'!

  22. Westlower

    Sep 18, 2015, 12:07 #75900

    @Badarse, Thanks for your best wishes for Charlies b-day- I'll pass your kind thoughts on. Oh to be 16 again with the knowledge we have acquired along the way. We'd probably get locked up! The tax mans taken all my dough & left me in my stately home, lazing on a sunny afternoon. And I can't sail my yacht, he's taken everything I got. Save me, save from the squeeze, I've got a big fat mamma trying to break me. My girlfriends run off with my car, gone back to her ma & pa, telling tales of drunkenness & cruelty...Come on Arsenal & give Charlie a present to remember at the Bridge tomorrow.

  23. Arsenal Fan

    Sep 18, 2015, 11:35 #75898

    'Arrogant' would be Wenger who keeps trying the same mistakes over and over again thinking it will succeed out of pure stubbornness.

  24. Exeter Gunner

    Sep 18, 2015, 11:32 #75897

    If he was simply 'mistaken' presumably then he'll learn from this and we won't see this type of thing again? Hang on a minute...

  25. Chris

    Sep 18, 2015, 11:22 #75895

    Or how about 'mistaken'? As he said himself, when you lose you know you got it wrong. Simple as.

  26. Exeter Gunner

    Sep 18, 2015, 11:17 #75894

    Chris - the choice wasn't only between changing 6 players and changing 0 players. Believing you can change over half your team, believing your squad is that good that you can do that, is I think it what is being termed 'arrogant'. 'Deluded' might be a better word though.

  27. Chris

    Sep 18, 2015, 10:38 #75888

    Surely 'arrogant' would be Wenger believing that the same 11 could win against Chelsea less than three days after an away game in Zagreb?

  28. Badarse

    Sep 18, 2015, 10:21 #75886

    Happy Birthday Charlie. Wear that shirt with pride, Young Gun. Oh, yes he is! Oh yes he is!

  29. jeff wright

    Sep 18, 2015, 10:19 #75885

    Wenger is always setting unwanted records teams that can't win a game against anyone else often get a change of fortune when they meet arrogant Arsene. Is this a coincidence then >? I don't believe in coincidences and this happens far too often to just be down to bad-luck. Wenger doesn't study the opposition as other managers do he is never seen at any other games like Sir Ferguson was when looking for weaknesses or strengths in future opponents that he could expoit or guard against . .Perhaps having an affair in Paris with a younger woman or other things are more fun for Arsene . Wenger is supposed to be on the job 24 hours a day according to legend - however once again he went missing on deadline day when the last chance to sign new players was avoided by him he was off in Paris doing TV work instead. He should have stayed there . I don't believe either that he worked hard to try and sign Benzema because according to the Monsieur himself and others in Spain there was no truth what so ever in this story and the claims about this were clearly being put out by spin doctor Ivan to keep supporters quiet regarding the lack of any new (and clearly needed )players being signed by Wenger. Along with the false medical statements about injured players returning shortly this is all part and parcel of the chicanery that now exists at Stan's business - plan AFC. There used to be a football club at Highbury now it's a block of apartments. What happened to the money made from them it was certainly never re-invested in our squad . The new stadium is still waiting for some history to be made there other than Wenger's unwanted setting of worst defeats in AFC history and losing to teams that he should be beating every season.You couldn't make it up.

  30. chris dee

    Sep 18, 2015, 10:10 #75884

    Once again the team have the chance to lay down a marker,a chance to show the world Arsenal, under Arsene can win the league again.All we need is a performance with a coherent defensive plan,physical bravery,concentration and the old boring but relevant 'grit and determination' which is why I'm dreading Saturday.

  31. Website Admin

    Sep 18, 2015, 9:39 #75883

    Jamerson - You can keep trying to post under different names or IP addresses, but your comments usually give you away quite quickly and we'll continue to delete them. We welcome differing opinions which are in line with our House Rules, but individuals who continue to contravene these rules will have their posts removed.

  32. Westlower

    Sep 18, 2015, 8:56 #75881

    @mgb For someone who usually ridicules stats you've finally found some that suits your limited agenda. You missed an obvious stat, that it was Wenger's record 50th defeat in 139 CL games (Fergie only lost 39). AW has a losing rate of 36% or to spin it around a 64% rate of not losing. Stats can be used for whichever argument suits a particular agenda. For every stat there is usually a counter stat.

  33. Tony Evans

    Sep 18, 2015, 8:33 #75880

    Cyril - Terry Thomas, now there was a fine comic actor.Glad you liked my post - chocks away old boy and let's go and beat Chelski!

  34. Made Up Stat

    Sep 18, 2015, 7:21 #75879

    Rev Alfonso/Clockender/Jamerson: Yawn. And by the way, I suspect your post that was removed had little to do with 'too much truth' and more to do with homophobic untruths. Try to have grown up conversations, eh?

  35. Red Member

    Sep 18, 2015, 5:36 #75878

    I am going to support Westlower this time. The fact is the footballing schedule gets more and more bizarre and is the thing which is really turning me off the sport this season. It is ridiculous that the league season started on 8 August yet by last Saturday we had only played 4 matches! Then you have Chelsea and Arsenal playing CL games less than 72 hours before meeting at the Bridge. This game surely should surely be on Sunday? TV has wrecked the game for a while but this season it has reached ludicrous levels .

  36. Andreas

    Sep 18, 2015, 1:26 #75877

    Hopefully, this will refocus the team. I couldn't understand 6 changes against a team that won the league undefeated, they obviously know how to get a result. We will do better and can get a result in one of the Bayern games, as we have done before.

  37. Roy

    Sep 18, 2015, 0:42 #75876

    What utter rubbish. 6 changes, 4 of whom haven't kicked a ball in anger yet this season. A gamble that backfired spectacularly. This manager is now making decisions that are detrimental to the teams progress and I don't mean just in the transfer market. Ridiculously high up the pitch and exposed to the counter attack, both goals a defensive nightmare. Wenger out.

  38. Paul

    Sep 17, 2015, 23:07 #75875

    Try as the AKB's might there can be no excuse for last nights pathetic performance.Zagreb are absolutely crap in the CL.Has anyone found Ozil yet?missing again in action £42m not worth £42.Arteta should have been pensioned off in the summer.Out injured since November but rewarded with a new deal,typical Wenger.Giroud Wengers love child is just not good enough at least the fans back in France have sussed him out.Its another Groundhog season folks while Wenger pockets another £8m.Happy days

  39. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 23:06 #75874

    ArseneKnewBest, good post, look at himself in the mirror? and think and realise it's time to pack it in? not a f*****g chance, i bet it has never crossed his mind, any other manager in the world anyone, with half an ounce of honesty and decency yes, absolutely, without a doubt they'd have done it years ago but not this arrogant old egoistic past it manager we have.

  40. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 22:31 #75873

    Just reading a few stats, ones your not likely to hear from the wenger apologists, it was Dinamos first win over a Premier league team or English opponents, it was their first CL victory this century, their last victory was 98/99, until now, well done wenger.

  41. Cyril

    Sep 17, 2015, 22:04 #75871

    Tony Evans you are a funny man: 'it's a pity that a pasting or two can't shift the bugger' . That has to go down as the greatest line in the history of online goner. Are you related to the rt hon Mr Terry Thomas by any chance. "Yes, no, damn good show ol bean" . Looool

  42. Finsbury Joe

    Sep 17, 2015, 21:59 #75870

    Still coming to terms with the clubs complete and utter humiliation, of the clubs with vast resources, Arsenal are surely the most lame. Still, Wenger will soon be gone .....amazing to think who Stan and co will replace him with......

  43. jjetplane

    Sep 17, 2015, 21:50 #75869

    Judging by Arsenal TV methinks Arsene and his little Arsetronauts are using space transportation and go into hibernation during said space travel. This may also explain the gravitation poll on Gibbs when confronted with defensive black holes. Sure they will get lift off come the next exhibitive match at the Wok. Maybe it was Stan who planted that flag on the moon. As they say at AKb control - she's looking good for top four .......

  44. Westlower

    Sep 17, 2015, 20:09 #75868

    @Hiccup, Not all the squad travelled, Ramsey & Bellerin stayed home & will be fresh as daisy's come lunchtime Saturday. Cech was taken along as tour guide. Of course you're right to say our 1640 mile round trip to Zagreb gives Arsenal an unfair advantage at the Bridge. Perhaps teams who travel long distances midweek should be handicapped & made to play with 10 men or give the home side a first half penalty to create a level playing field. Last year at the Bridge both of those things happened. I'm surprised all you Wally fans haven't complimented him on continuing his goal scoring exploits? Perhaps you missed it as you were watching Doctor Foster at the time?

  45. Dartford gooner

    Sep 17, 2015, 19:36 #75866

    The Reverend Alfonso, I think you are coming from the wrong direction mate . Try telling the team and the manager to man up and not the wobs. One good thing about last night at least Ozil got a rest, oh sorry i just checked the paper, he was on the pitch

  46. Jason

    Sep 17, 2015, 19:21 #75865

    There was a time that I would have hated to see Wenger hounded out of the club because of what he has done in the past, but it has gone way past that point now. Any (verbal) abuse and criticism he gets for the rest of the season is fully justified. I cant bare the sight of the man now and am certainly not interested in the bull**** he talks. The club is becoming a joke but unfortunately there is no one at the club who will do anything about it.

  47. Dartford gooner

    Sep 17, 2015, 19:14 #75864

    Anyone seen or heard anything from Ivan, no thought not . Head down, can't say anything against the king wenger.

  48. Radfordkennedy

    Sep 17, 2015, 19:11 #75863

    A man once told me that few men are born heroes and few men are born cowards, what stops the majority becoming the latter is Training,Discipline and Leadership...I wish that man was in charge of that shower last night....I can understand resting players but in September !!,call me old fashioned but getting the job done first then having a day off is how it should be done...JJ..Giroud does have some bugle on him doesn't he,I think he looks like the 80's TV puppet ALF myself...incidentally football aside does anyone know if the ex-serviceman who was featured in a post sometime ago achieved his goal of making it up the Rock on Gibralter in his wheelchair to raise money.

  49. Arseneknewbest

    Sep 17, 2015, 18:34 #75862

    When things are as arsewipingly bad as they have been since 10 pm yesterday, it's always important to seek some solace in schadenfreude. Just read a fascinating piece in the guardian that suggests that the 6 glazer parasites are each to be "paid" (donated?) £2.5 million per year. I bet Manure ST holders (badarse perchance?) are delighted about that. The thing that irks me most about last night is wondering whether wenger ever gets home from a fiasco like that, looks himself in the mirror and says, "I've lost it and should pack it up immediately". All that shi'ite about his profesorial air and his towering intellect should also come with a healthy dose of self-awareness n'est-ce pas? Many french people are pretty philosophical, dare I say existential, so I question why he's not called time after so many disasters. Or is he just a money-grubbing egotistical a-hole? The mysteries of AFC I guess.

  50. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 18:30 #75861

    Where's Wally, so he's lost 50 CL games, there wouldn't be enough time to present him with all his medals for contributing to that.

  51. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 18:15 #75860

    Made up stat, or it was cramp, or his piles were playing him up, or maybe he realised he's left a cone on the pitch, I bet he was told off about it afterwards and warned not to do it again.

  52. Mark from Aylesbury

    Sep 17, 2015, 18:06 #75859

    I'm interested in how the social media interacts with more old fashioned journalism. So was delighted to see James Olley use the term "Wenger out Brigade" in this evenings Standard. So well done Jamerson as you have created the very thing you loathe. A public tag for us anti Wengerists! Delighted! It also suggests that James Olley is dipping into the Gooner and other websites. As mentioned before its starting to gain traction now. The press have his number and unless he starts giving the public what it wants , solid performances , decent cover upfront and defensive midfield . He is going to suffer. An arrogant man seemingly out fought and out thought

  53. Ron

    Sep 17, 2015, 17:45 #75858

    Hiccup - good posts. Funny too! 'Gruelling' is the word for Arsenals CL flights. Westie will be on to this topic shortly.His post 80249 is Westie clearing his throat and licking his lips and, flexing his neck muscles for a thesis on 'fatigue and tiredness'. Its understandable i suppose. The midgets have played 5 games. Its enough to kill horses. There should be an Autumn, Winter and Spring break. Its obvious, just look at those work rates last night. Lung bursting!

  54. jjetplane

    Sep 17, 2015, 17:36 #75857

    It had to happen. Man United are solely responsible for last night's defeat and Rooney got Giroud sent off. On is on such tenuous incidents that great teams are made to suffer. It's out the way now and Chelsea will be all smugged up (ahaha) and there for the taking on Saturday. Hatrick for Wally who looks like an IT manager who wandered onto the football pitch searching for his rucksack and found himself scoring. Bet he's well chuffed. With HICCUP though as we played some of the most fantastic football ever seen and when you watch the likes of Messi missing the goal from a distance shorter than him you have to go with JAMERSON. On their day Theo and the lads are simply fantastico! Giroud's nose looks like the kind of structure that helps to hold up an arts centre. Talking of arts centres, do you think the Emirates, the vision,cohesion,......

  55. Ron

    Sep 17, 2015, 17:31 #75856

    The refs getting some stick unfairly, though as we know now, we were unlucky according to that muppet of a Coach. Girouds language towards the ref was foul. The ref told him to button it but he kept at it.I think after a warning to the said player the laws of the game should be changed to enable the ref to stick one on the offending low life, deck him and then stamp on his neck. The Club involved should then be fined £250000. Refs shdt be expected to take such sh--e from cretins like Giroud whether their decision was wrong or not.

  56. Hiccup

    Sep 17, 2015, 17:26 #75855

    Highbury Boy. If I have a criticism of Wenger, it's that he didn't leave more players at home. Cech should not have travelled either. We have an important game on Saturday, and the 2 hour economy class plane flight halfway around the world back from Zagreb will leave our players with extreme jet lag come kick off. But saying that, since the full squad travelled, it's always good to have the 'away in Europe excuse' up yer sleeve.

  57. Hiccup

    Sep 17, 2015, 17:11 #75854

    Please pray tell thee, just what 'impact' will losing to Chelsea have? There will still be 30 games to seal 4th place. Are you saying 4th place be in jeopardy?

  58. Highbury Boy

    Sep 17, 2015, 16:58 #75853

    From all the comments and press speculation in the build up to the match I think we were all expecting some rotation. After all prior to last night I thought Debuchy was better at defending than Bellerin who is better going forward. Also most of us would have said there's not much difference between a fit Gibbs and Monreal. And Gabriel was always worth another game. But there's a big difference between rotation and wholesale changes which lead to 6 changes from the last home game and having the arrogance to leave Bellerin and Ramsey at home resting. What message does it send to both sides? Also the most surprising change for no worthwhile reason was losing the experience of the winner Cech. Taking away the 2 matches v BM means that the remaining 6 matches become almost as crucial as Cup ties. Wenger has played weakened teams before, resting stars like Henry (e.g. v Manu in the Cup) and invariably it has backfired because of just too many changes in one go. Just replacing Bellerin with Debuchy,retaining Gabriel,replacing Ramsey with the Ox and perhaps Arteta instead of Cazorla and I think he would have got away with it. He has too much faith in his squad and has picked some of them on their performances on the training ground and long ago PL matches. Finally I don't usually agree with Westie but have to say that watching it last night my immediate reaction to Giroud's first yellow was that I have seen Rooney moan non stop to refs throughout so many games without getting booked. However there appears to be a big difference between refereeing PL and CL matches. Once he had got the yellow I said that in his frustrated mood he would pick up another. An utterly stupid action from an experienced international player. His misses cost us v Monaco and his behaviour last night are likely to cost us again.

  59. redfox

    Sep 17, 2015, 16:37 #75852

    Again!

  60. Westlower

    Sep 17, 2015, 16:25 #75851

    Of our run of 6 games in 18 days, last night was the game that causes us least damage, as it has minimal impact on our qualifying for the knockout stage, a minimum of 9 points is still readily achievable. Losing on Saturday will have a far greater impact.

  61. Made Up Stat

    Sep 17, 2015, 16:19 #75850

    Positive: Steve Bould at one occasion actually standing by the touchline. Negative: It was to tell Debuchey to stop flinging himself to the ground every time an opponents shadow fell across him.

  62. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 15:59 #75848

    Tony Evans, yes there is and did you see them last night before and more importantly after the game? singing away as happy as larry without a care in the world, Arsenal Arsenal Arsenal, and we're by far the greatest team (yawn)after another embarrassment what is wrong with these people what are they on?( i refuse to call them fans)have they no pride? what are they fans off? what were they supporting another defeat? embarrassment? second third rate players? this regime? wenger? if so they're not fans of Arsenal, maybe the fact they seemed to be all young bucks not long out of puberty and probably knew no better explained a lot.

  63. Hiccup

    Sep 17, 2015, 15:37 #75847

    Joe S. The stats you need to know is that arsenal made 502 successful passes versus Zagreb's 330. I don't have the possesion stats to hand, but I think we destroyed them on that too. Please, let's not muddy the waters with irrelevant statistics about squad depth and the wob's ever favourite bashing line, the final score!

  64. Hiccup

    Sep 17, 2015, 15:27 #75846

    What a depressing you lot are on here! And what short memories you all have! It was only this weekend when some of the football we played was out of this world. And that was the official line from AKB Central. After the next few games when we come up against more relegation fodder we'll be back playing our high intensity attacking game, and there'll be more egg on face than usual. However, what I find most disappointing is the current AKB mouthpiece, westie, coming out and saying Wenger got it wrong. Well I think Wenger got it just about spot on. I like this new Brendan Rogers approach to the competition. The season before, the scousers bust a gut to qualify, and then pissed about with the team selections in the CL and waved a white flag to Madrid. This showed us that all they were bothered about was the money, but a real slap in the face for their fans. And although we have always had the same principles of being in it just for the money, it has never been made so perfectly transparent as last night. The dumb theory reiterated on here by AKB's year after year of why it is vital to finish top 4 for the finances to be able to attract players so as to strengthen and thus enable us to compete has been blown out of the water by this season's transfer inactivity and last night's shambles. So for westie to say Wenger got it wrong last night is slanderous. We have preserved our squad for the weekend, where league results are more important to get back in this joke of a competition so we can bank the extra cash from TV and get gate receipts from 3 fixtures where our doormat fans will pay and not even turn up. If anyone can think of a better business model than this, I'm all ears.

  65. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:40 #75845

    Mathew, yes indeed, so much for this big squad we keep being told we have, and that they're all internationals (you wouldn't think it) as others rightly keep saying it's not the size that matters it's the quality in it and that was proved last night.

  66. Mark from Aylesbury

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:39 #75844

    Zoran Mamic said, “We realised it was very important to close the middle of the field, to stop the fast passes, and we succeeded in doing that. This is not new. We have already seen other teams who beat Arsenal use the same tactics. This is a good way to beat them.” So easy isn't it!

  67. Joe S.

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:32 #75843

    I guess the stats we need to know are that Arsenal's second line,re. Giroud,Atteta, Gibbs and the Frech fullback are not winners,leaving the team over stretched and lacking in depth. Its too late to rectify now, and will cost the team dearly during the course of this season. Is it a case of Arsene knows less or Arsene and his accounts buddies doing their sums.

  68. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:27 #75842

    Dont think manager was wrong to make the changes he did .after all he played people who keep telling him they should be first team choices and they failed to perform.shame on them.howwver it was up to the manager to have them ready.

  69. Tony Evans

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:26 #75841

    Ron - it's a pity that a pasting or two wouldn't be enough to shift the bugger (as we know to our cost from past humiliations) but at least we could enjoy seeing that smirk wiped off of his face! This lot are a disgrace to the shirt and I really wonder what some of the Arsenal old boys think when they see such pitiful displays.

  70. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:20 #75840

    Learn? how many times over the last ten years have we been told by the players and the TOF after a humiliation, embarrassment, defeat, we will learn from this, they're not capable of learning they haven't it in them, especially TOF his ego and arrogance wouldn't allow him even if he was capable, i never heard any post match interviews last night (and had no desire to) but i wouldn't be surprised and i'm sure none of us would if the last thing wally and TOF said was we'll learn from this. You couldn't make it up.

  71. Mark from Aylesbury

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:20 #75839

    I was going to ask the arch AKB Clockender to comment but I hear he is busy with his new book "Wengerball" how to lose and still make money! Would any AKB still defend this utter garbage and at least not require change. Jesus wept. Anyway daily telegraph 5 points we know article summed it up nicely and James olley in the Standard before the match acknowledged many want him gone. least the press is looking through him now . So only Wenger and his pride will determine what level of respect he wishes to maintain. Just a note to the Disappearing Jamerson. When you ask people to man up over our lack of transfer activity isn't this better directed towards Wenger?

  72. Ron

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:08 #75838

    Hi Bard - it is emotional. This team is a disgrace and shames Arsenal teams of the past, even the so called weaker teams. For the first time last night i found myself quietly hoping we would concede and then for a pasting at Chelsea and Tottenham. I d love to have that shirker Ozil round his scrawny throat. Hes f-----g useless. By far the worst of that feckless bunch last night.

  73. Bard

    Sep 17, 2015, 14:02 #75837

    Ron; supporting Arsenal at the moment is like betting on a horse with three legs. You know they are never going to win anything but the attachment is very emotional and long standing. We will limp along till the Jan window when low and behold we sign a couple and then are building for next season.

  74. Ron

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:52 #75836

    Hands up those of you who expected anything other than a dose of the insipid? Pathetic performance. Wenger out and go today! The Chelsea match looms large. It might just be yet another humiliation. Hold onto your hats.

  75. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:50 #75835

    Of course it was arrogance Ed, of course it was, and it then rubbed of on his Dwarfs who just thought they had to turn up and play their little tippy tappy, well the arrogance and smug grin was well and truly knocked of his face last night along with his little technicians, who cares about him it's good to see that happen over and over, unfortunately it's the club and the proper fans who suffer, and have been suffering for years because of his arrogance and massive ego it's time for change and has been for years. wenger out.

  76. jjetplane

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:41 #75834

    Arteta is forever clipping opposition heels because he is either too slow (much shorter legs than Paddy) or is a nasty little piece of work. Reckon it's a combination of the two and perfectly echoes his manager's personae. Too cute to get sent off but not the case with Coq or Gabriel who should have walked for an elbow against Stoke. Suspensions, injuries (usually long term) and players either too frightened or just too smug to get involved. What a dreadful club Arsenal have become under this imposing and unattractive funds manager. WESTIe your posts are increasingly potted with ifs and mays which in football parlance reads as serial loser. I guess that and voyeur were correctly called. Anyone note Fabregas relief at scoring last night? Have to say that was an amazing finish and Wenger will have been warned .... Well yes/we could have signed him again/we have Jack/who will be back/Ozil will be the main focus now/the only money to throw around is the bag Stan get's/a little for myself yes/disrespectful/100 years of CL football you could say we have had ........

  77. mbg

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:32 #75833

    Well what's the excuse this time ? I suppose shot themselves in the foot is as good as one as any Ed (although I know that's not what the heading means) the AKB's might pick up on that although we'll no doubt hear the usual, maybe they has ashleys rifle in the dressing room before the game, and it was being waved around by the cart horse because as we know he couldn't hit his own face with croissant, but more likely it was the past it manager with his outdated philosophies and ideas who just hasn't a clue and has never had and is past his sell by date years ago. wenger out.

  78. Bard

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:22 #75832

    DJ wishful thinking mate. Wenger isnt going anywhere not while the money is rolling in. I for one dont think he will retire either at the end of this contract. Does this side look any more likely to win anything than teams of the last 10 years? No. The really interesting thing from my point of view is why fans keep thinking it will be different. For what its worth I reckon Klopp will go to Liverpool as Rogers will be gone by Christmas. They are even more hopeless than us.

  79. Dartford gooner

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:18 #75831

    Ian Wright said last night that after a poor first half Pat Rice ripped into the players and Wenger cut him short and said please do not shout at the players. Move on 15 years and if anyone had a go at this lot half of them would burst into tears .Ozil once again went missing last night, its no good having all that skill if there is no fight with it. You only have to look back to DB10 to see that you can have skill and bite.I can't remember us winning a tackle till the coq came on, its ok people having a go at a rusty Arteta but who picked him. It seems no matter how many cock ups Wenger makes its never his fault.

  80. Exeter Gunner

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:16 #75830

    Steady, Westlower. Your posts have been reasonably sensible up to now but mention of refs and Man U has the men in white coats hovering again...

  81. Made Up Stat

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:09 #75829

    Thanks Westie - that makes it so much better. Wenger forever!

  82. jeff wright

    Sep 17, 2015, 13:08 #75828

    Finishing second in the group will mean one of the big guns in the first KO round Westie. Then again as we couldnt beat Monaco at home last season in the first one it is is all academic really. As others have said getting the group stage cash for Stan is what it's all actually about and qualifying again to do the same next season and ad - nauseum ( yawn) the one after ... 4th place though is not looking likely to be good enough this season so the results in the Prem against the other challengers for 2nd and 3rd spot will be crucial. United look stronger than last season while we are just the same despite signing Chelsea legend Cech. I suspect that this season will see the chickens coming home to roost for old tired Arsene.

  83. Westlower

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:52 #75827

    The biggest crime of all from last night is taking us to the Bridge & the Lane on the back of a very avoidable defeat. It was a gamble with team selection that backfired. We may have got away with it had Giroud not antagonised the ref. Only Giggs & Rooney have ever been allowed that particular privilege! I've no doubt we'll blow DZ away in the return leg, once we've got some legs back in the engine room. We're still 4/11 to qualify, with Olympiakos 5/1 & DZ 15/2.

  84. Man United Killer

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:45 #75826

    Wait a minute!!! Didn't we go through this last year ? And the year before ? And the year before that ? I am not sure why many are so upset. This is the Arsenal Business Model. If you really don't like the model stop giving them your money! That's the language they understand.

  85. Mathew

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:42 #75825

    Can someone stop these players blabbing after the game and boasting about the team and title challenges. Sounds as if they have overachieved or trying to console the fans for their loss of money. I wish Walcott & Co. could return their month's salary for not performing as a token of acceptance and failure. No wonder the commentators kept saying the entire Dinamo players are only 12 million worth in total , and yes English Football is overpaid !

  86. jjetplane

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:39 #75824

    Seems like a life time ago when we used to trot off to Wembley to watch CL games with what we thought then was a sussed cosmopolitan boss who would take like a duck to water. The buzz wore off quick enough and though I never missed a match at Wembley or Highbury it became just a mid week piss up only alleviated by two or three impressive domestic seasons. Wenger has now hung around the CL (voyeur unfortunately does have a pertinent ring here) with little if any progression in the competition. Still find it hard to believe he is at the club and if it is all about 'acting the shopkeeper' as is expressed by AkB parlance then surely anyone could have done that type of job. Running a football requires a person of strong stature and total passion for the game. wenger's players play in the manner he 'coaches.' Last night was not pitiful but simply the latest expression of having a non-footballing type at the helm of a football club. you can see the expressions on the pundit's faces. They are simply bored with Wenger and his distanced culture from the world of football. He has created a barrier that only a greedy little expansionist like Stan would truly appreciate. Good private profit with negligible public outlay. Not so much a football club as just another hedge fund on a global dip. Even WeSTIE's post sounds tired and a reason Wally scored last night was that it no longer mattered in the match. If it had then Zagreb would have nicked another in that fashion that Monaco reminded Wenger of. This should be a month and a half for what is the most shallow football club operating on a global ticket. Have to give to JM after having such a poor start he is talking of how poorly English teams are doing in Europe. Who could he be talking about.

  87. David

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:25 #75823

    Westie - player rotation would've been a lot easier had AW signed more players over the summer. Arsenal clearly worked hard to get Benzema, and deserve credit for not paying silly amounts for other less talented centre forwards when that all fell through. But they could've bought a DM and CD without breaking the bank. The defeat last night was down to poor business in the transfer market over the summer. AW or the board?

  88. DJ

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:21 #75822

    Putting Carzola and Arteta in central midfield was suicide before with even started. Arteta is a nice fellow and a great ambassador but so was Ernest Hemmingway and I wouldn’t play him in central midfield either. Our no show in the transfer market has come back to haunt us already as we all knew (or nearly all!) we needed cover for Coquelin and an upgrade on Giroud. Our French forward now thinks he is untouchable as his petulant performance demonstrated! I know Wenger is going no where but with Klopp available our board should act now……………….oh wait

  89. Gaz

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:14 #75821

    SKG-agree about the fans. Don't think anything will ever see them turn against Wenger. It really is like a cult...

  90. exiled&dangerous

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:11 #75820

    According to this month's WSC the fans are boycotting matches because of their opposition to the club's owners, which might have something to do with the empty seats. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the group stages are bloated and downright boring, could it?

  91. Tony Evans

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:09 #75819

    Exeter Gunner - yep CL participation is what it is all about and Wenger spouting on about how desperate he is to actually win it is nothing less then an insult to our intelligence.

  92. Mike Collins

    Sep 17, 2015, 12:07 #75818

    After our defeat in Zagreb last night I just want to say AW is [paste in comments from last 14 posts] and that the team [paste in comments from last eight years]. Furthermore, if [paste in names as appropriate] don't get their act together then the club looks set for [paste in gloomy outcomes from last 10 posts]. Thanks for listening.

  93. Finsbury Joe

    Sep 17, 2015, 11:55 #75817

    Arsenal embarassed themselves, their league and their country last night. Wenger, Gazidis, Kronke, what a cosy little setup for failure that really is. Ian Wright is clearly wide of the mark, nothing to do with stalling, dont think Wenger had any intention of signing outfield players this summer.

  94. jeff wright

    Sep 17, 2015, 11:46 #75816

    and if my aunt Fanny had balls she would be my uncle... yawn... the defending on the Croats second goal was typical piss poor and that had nothing to do with the ref .My advice to you Reverendson is to give the crystal ball gazing a swerve - it's a results game and all the record books will show is that we lost 2-1.

  95. jeff wright

    Sep 17, 2015, 11:13 #75815

    The Wenger old outdated training and medical regime has been once again been exposed this season for the complete shambles that they are .With many players despite the pre-season games obviously still not match fit when called on. As was the case last night and even in the first game at home in the WHU 2-0 defeat when another Croat stuck it to arrogant Arsene. Wilshere and Welbeck are examples of the poor medical side of Wenger's mad hatter tea party regime - both were initially said to have suffered minor injuries and would soon return. How many times have we heard this over the past few years about injured players from Wenger >? It turns out that Jack's injury is a recurrence of an old one and not a new injury and the treatment that he has been receiving was not good enough to cure it. Deja vu Danny Boys case - again a complete cock-up all around with the medics doing their typical Carry On Doctor routine. Wenger himself doesn't have a clue what is going on with these injured players he just parrots what the club medics tell him . Wenger's clueless behaviour applies to most things anyway with him. Last night's result was not as the clown claims an unlucky one at all but a result of cause and effects poor tactics again from Inspector Clueless poor team selections and players attitudes and the familiar Keystone Kops Koss and co defending were to blame . Giroud was running around like a mad bull in a China shop right from the kick-off and was fortunate not to have got a yellow card for an elbow in to the face to a Croat player before he received his first one . As others have said him mouthing off all the time at refs doesn't help his cause either. Ozil and Sanchez have still shown nothing in Europe to suggest that the claims for them having taken us to another level are little more than absurdities . In Ozil's case he has not even shown anything in the domestic game to justify his big signing on fee.As I recall he went missing in past games at the bridge over troubled waters and at the lane of shame . Will it be anything different this time>? I wouldn't put money on anything improving from him.More worring for Wenger is that Sanchez looks to be morphing into another Arshavin the goals from him are not flying in any more and he is another who has struggled against Chelsea and the spuds as well . So plenty for Arsene to fret over before the next few games in what looks to be a rather tough run of them. If he can come out on top is something that only time will tell. I won't be relying on predictions from the Reverendson though for any clues he like Wenger is just really clueless. You couldn't make it up

  96. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Sep 17, 2015, 11:05 #75814

    Winterslag 1981 anyone? It all sounds so depressingly familiar.

  97. Exeter Gunner

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:52 #75813

    As others have intimated, we've read this script before. What are Arsenal 'for' these days? The actions and decisions at executive and management level seem to suggest that participation is an end in itself, purely for the revenue. Wenger as manager, for him and his supporters, seems to be an end in itself. The true 'intense drive' is simply to remain.

  98. Tony Evans

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:43 #75812

    SKG - couldn't agree more. Weak in key positions (which was screamingly obvious before a ball was even kicked this season) and so lightweight with no real physical presence at all it was just awful to watch. I don't expect anything else these days so at least it wasn't a surprise. As you say what depresses me most is there are still supporters out there, turning up in their droves, that appear to fine with it all.

  99. Torbay gooner

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:41 #75811

    Out last night, so although missed the game saw the goals this morning. What is it with our defenders ducking under the ball, Mertesacker, Koscielny and now Gibbs. Wonder what Steve Bould thinks of that? Tony Evans you are right, OX has gone backwards and that's a big worry, thought 2/3 years ago he would be one of the main men by now. Not looking forward to Saturday as Chelski has now discovered some confidence and we remain as brittle as we ever had under Wenger for the last ten years.

  100. Garry

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:36 #75810

    Just shows that our squad lacks depth and leadership. This happens every year, we all know what's going to happen now. Get beaten by Chelsea 2-0 at the Bridge as our defence gifts them the lead inside the first 10 minutes then we go to Spurs with a young side and get spanked, but suddenly the team fights back and we beat Leicester and Olympiakos and draw with Man United and Bayern Munich to be on course for 4th place. Blah, blah, blah

  101. Seven Kings Gooner

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:32 #75809

    It is not the defeat I have a problem with - I and many other regulars on this site knew, once they saw the team sheet that the most likely outcome was a defeat. You cannot put out a team so weak in key positions and expect anything but a struggle. My real problem is that so many supposedly sane Gooners will defend and support the way the club is run and set up. These people are perpetuating the destruction of the club I and so many others love. Posters dribble on about our manager as if he has an inner eye on the world of football when in truth, we need to replace the coaching and management with professional people who will bring back some of the basic tactical and physical requirements a team like Arsenal need. However if this regime is allowed to continue we may fall out of the running for good.

  102. Made Up Stat

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:27 #75808

    I couldn't believe my eyes last night. Gibbs actually reduced in height when he jumped for the ball that led to Zagreb's second. Takes some effort, that. 2nd if we're lucky and then out again in the first round of the knock out stage. £8m a year for what exactly?

  103. Hi Berry

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:13 #75807

    I would just like to send my heartfelt thanks to BT for taking over the CL coverage. Not wanting to cough up more cash to watch footie on the television I found absolutely no withdrawal symptoms by not being able to watch last night. On the contrary I was able to get on with more constructive things and able to dip into the live score via the BBC website without having to be reduced to a resigned soprific state watching a predictable display from Arsenal away in Europe. Sad to say that not being able to watch the game did not bother me one way or the other quite honestly - a sad reflection on how so many posters on here feel these days. Don't know if I'm strong enough yet to cancel Sky Sports as well but it could be the way forward.

  104. Rob

    Sep 17, 2015, 10:12 #75806

    What's the point in Arsenal's CL participation? No realistic ambition of challenge for the ultimate goal. It's all about generate revenue for Wenger and Stan. Would find it highly amusing if we failed to make it out of the group and thereby denying Wenger a few extra million for his retirement....

  105. Bard

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:55 #75804

    Good report Kev. It would be excusable if it was a one off but how many times have we seen this. How deluded was it to imagine that no one in the world of football could be found who would strengthen this squad. A beating from the Chavs on Sat and we could set another record for the fastest exit from the CL and PL contests. Presumably the AKBs are out with the conspiracy theories although I did hear the ref plays golf with Gary Neville, very odd that.

  106. Tony Evans

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:49 #75803

    Here we go again, now wait for the defeat at Chelski, where the rested players will return and make no difference what so ever! All academic anyway as we have no chance in the CL and Wenger saying how much he covets winning it makes me sick when he is leaving circa £200M in the bank, rather then investing to build a team that actually has a chance. Also what's gone wrong with The Ox? Yet another player that hasn't developed at all under Wenger and is actually going backwards. I did say I would always put him in ahead of Wally but not at the moment and that's saying something as I don't rate Walcott.

  107. Gaz

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:47 #75802

    We've been here before and we'll be here again. Pathetic all-round performance with Wenger trying to be smart but failing badly. Forget about the money issue for once-the simple fact is he just ain't as good as he used to be and never will be again...

  108. Westlower

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:46 #75801

    The time has come to team up Ramsey with Coq in midfield and keep them together. It was embarrassing watching poor Arteta & Coz struggling in midfield last night. Use them off the bench once the game is won to save the legs of AR & Coq for the next game. We all love to knock Wally but it's hard to argue with 12 goals from 12 games.

  109. Mathew

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:43 #75800

    It was clearly Wenger's transfer policy which has backfired yesterday. If you look at any team in CL, they have a second string team who are equally good to play in the first team. And we have Arteta, Flamini, Campbell (who doesn't remember the color of our jersey anymore) and Gibbs. Who among those, except for Campbell maybe, will walk in to a CL team today ? Strengthening the team wasn't a luxury for us during summer, but a dire necessity and it will be proved again on Saturday. If you need to play all these cup games, you need good players to rotate, depending on the opposition. I also had a feeling that our initial 15 mins were closely observed by Dinamo and managed to tie us down for the rest of the game. Wenger didn't knew anything about their players, Soudani gave a rampant to Debuchy, who is a good player but still out of sorts. Everyone, including Wenger, knew that Dinamo were the weakest link in the group, and 3 points were there for taking. Coquelin was dearly missed, I wish he had a start as Arteta is way past his sell by date. Walcott's goal again proves that he is a winger, not a CF as he ran inside, I find him selfish too, not a team player.

  110. Fozzy

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:35 #75799

    Utterly depressed at the incompetent team selection, performance and attitude. Wenger, please note that there are loyal supporters who pay good money to watch the team. These are people care.

  111. Martyn

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:33 #75798

    Zagreb did their homework. The game was almost a mirror image of the opening game against West Ham. Stay solid, let Arsenal tap around the edge of the box until they lose it, hit them on the break and score, simple. Wenger never seems to assess the opposition but the opposition assess Arsenal and know how to play them. All down to tactics, or lack of them, yet again with the inevitable consequences. We will qualify in second place but if not lets hope we end up bottom of the group to avoid the Thursday night Europa league carve up!

  112. Wear Your Colours

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:30 #75797

    Kevin I agree that there were many parallels to the game with West Ham. I thought Wenger was right to make the changes as we need to rotate our squad to keep everyone as fit as possible; but the result was a team that was far from fluent as Ospina, Debuchy, Arteta and Gibbs all looked a little rusty and lacked match-sharpness. I think Giroud's absence was a big factor for their second goal; he usually defends that front post ball very well. I think Zagreb did get the rub of the green with their opener and I thought we played much better after the substitutions when we went with three at the back. There is still a long way to go in this competition, I still think we can make the last 16. The bright spots were the good finish by Theo and the fact that many of those who started last night (i.e. Ospina, Arteta, Campbell, et al) will be less rusty when we take on Spurs in the League Cup. Here's hoping that Alexis, Ozil, Cazorla or Ramsey find their goal scoring boots for the trip to West London on Saturday morning. COYG!

  113. Where's Wally is a Gooner

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:28 #75796

    Wenger's face on the touchline is beginning to resemble an old lady in the supermarket queue,when the person in front is taking a little too long with their change.May I suggest a presentation before the next home match to recognise his contribution in losing of 50 CL games.Perhaps a t-shirt with the logo "I learn from my mistakes"?

  114. Bob Matthews

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:27 #75795

    King Jeremy.....toal agreement with every word i would however add another 2 players who should never wear the shirt again. Gibbs who never was and never will be good enough and Arteta (who i like and respect)but is finished at this level. Mind you, ive never spent a week in pro football so what do i know !!!

  115. Rob

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:23 #75794

    Same old bloody rubbish - AGAIN ! Do we scout the opposition ? It doesn't look like it, it really doesn't. Do we take into account their strengths - especially at their place - and balance our tactics and team selection accordingly ? Again, it doesn't look that way. If Wenger's is the genius he thinks he is, where's the motivation ? Ferguson, Clough, Shanks - all knew how to get the best from their players. Wenger just doesn't. He appears at arms length from everything other than his own misplaced ego. Your conclusion - whilst obvious - is obviously true. The CL = a pot of money, a chance for Wenger to tell the world he's a supposed genius and nothing else. The idea this lot could win it, is risible. We couldn't with much better players 15 years ago. We certainly won't with Wenger in charge. Bloody infuriating !!!

  116. Westlower

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:18 #75793

    Spot on Kevin, comparing last night with the West Ham game. It was like starting the season all over again. It's never easy getting the player rotation right with 6 games looming in 18 days & Wenger didn't get it right last night. Starting Arteta alongside Cazorla was the biggest failure, as they didn't contribute anything at all in the first half. I can't remember Cazorla finding a team mate with any of his passes until Coq arrived on the scene. He seems a more confident player with Coq supporting him. Ozil was starved of the ball in the first 45 minutes. Still waiting for the Ox to burst into life, perhaps his niggling injuries are holding him back? I felt it was two yellows for Giroud rather than a straight red but it was stupid picking up his first booking. Next time, keep you mouth firmly shut Olivier. Unlucky not to score with an early header though. What did we learn? 6 changes is 3/4 too many but I suspect it'll be same again at the Lane next week. 4 away games on the trot is unfortunate, especially compared to Chelsea's 2 home fixtures this week. As I posted previously I'll happily take 5 points from our next 3 PL games. @Bard, Is there nobody in heaven who can help us? Pearly Gates strung across our goal line may help.

  117. Johnny

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:14 #75792

    AW is an arrogant old man thousands of fans cannot be wrong at the same time. We need a defensive player along with Coq and an attacker but he failed to buy. Wenger will surely failed this time around I am sure Ch******s will beat us come Saturday early kick-off as we are not always ready for it. I can’t wait to see the back of Wenger

  118. King Jeremy

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:13 #75791

    Arrogance. Sheer arrogance. From all 11 on the pitch and the man in charge on the sidelines on £8m a year. You would think after the Monaco debacle it would have been a case of once bitten, twice shy, but Arsene doesn't do "lessons learned". We are now in the completely avoidable situation of needing (in all likelihood) to get something from the trip to Greece, and we know our history when it comes to final group games. Nothing is going to change though and the AKBs are out in force this morning on Twitter defending their idol - referee, fixture list, nobody available in summer - I.e. Everyone's fault but their hero. Giroud is a disgrace and should never wear an arsenal shirt again but then thanks tithe managers gross negligence, he knows he will be straight back in the staring line up on Saturday. Until the manager is gone we will witness a lot more results of last night's type. Ian Wright was bang on - the last footballing brain left the board with David Dean.

  119. chris dee

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:12 #75790

    Gibbs played like he always has,looks good on the ball,but no fight,physically weak,no concept of defensive duties and disappears when the going gets tough.Which just about sums Arsenal in the last few years. A word about Oxlade Chamberlain,hopefully his dad,because Arsene won't do it, will sit him down and tell him he is not yet a world superstar because looking at him play and his stropy attitude,he obviously thinks he's on par with Messi and Ronaldo.

  120. Rob

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:10 #75789

    Resting 6 players for an opening CL match, pure arrogance from the dictator.

  121. I.P. from South Africa

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:09 #75788

    No matter how often we object and rant about Arsenal's diabolic inconsistent performances and blame everything on some other factors such as referees etc. no gain will be forthcoming until such time as the so-called Management at Arsenal is replaced.

  122. Its up for grabs now

    Sep 17, 2015, 9:01 #75787

    I am just bored now with this never ending cycle of CL group games, where we despite losing last night, will no doubt finish second again. Then surprise surprise get knocked out at the last 16 stage. I would rather we finish third in the group and drop into Thursday night football, with a more realistic chance of actually winning the second tier European competition. Having said that, even if they were to progress to the latter stages in that comp, at some stage Wenger would no doubt once again be exposed at his lack of tactical acumen, hence we would fall short even in this comp. I would also now be really surprised if we don't lose to Chelsea on Saturday, because that is what I expect from a team managed by Wenger. Roll on 2017, although no doubt another very lucrative contract will be signed, keeping us with Wenger for at least a further three years and probably beyond. Yawn!!

  123. smithy

    Sep 17, 2015, 8:57 #75786

    Arsenal wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot, they'd spend several hours wondering about which bullets to put in the chamber and whether they could find a cheaper option. Then when the gun was loaded they would shoot blanks all around the foot.

  124. TJ

    Sep 17, 2015, 8:55 #75785

    Although I am an ardent AMG, I don't think Wenger was wrong to make 6 changes. We were dominating possession: the problem of using it and finishing is an entirely different matter, of course, but Zagreb scored from their first real chance thanks to a rusty Debuchy's individual error. Giroud infuriated the ref with his protests and he didn't have the awareness to realise he might have it in for him thereafter- that was irresponsible in the extreme from Giroud, whose lack of goals is something he should be making up for, not giving doubters like myself more ammunition. Going down to ten killed it. I thought bringing on Walcott and Coquelin at 2-0 was appalling though... They're rested because they'll be the most key players against Chelsea, and yet they're thrown in to a hopeless situation that is so much more tiring mentally and physically, when the game was clearly up by then. Ultimately I don't think it matters, the CL is way beyond Arsenal as is the title too in all likelihood, Wenger can't take the team any further but his disciples don't mind.

  125. Peter Wain

    Sep 17, 2015, 8:54 #75784

    Another selection success for OGL. Not content with only buying one player he omits him form the first CL match and we get deservedly beaten. One can only wonder at the arrogance of a man who said he could not find a striker better than the ones we had when the one he started is playing about as bad as any striker in any league in Europe. Also why start Arteta as the DM when he clearly is not up to this task.

  126. Blair207

    Sep 17, 2015, 8:52 #75783

    Instead of trying to make sure we get off to a flyer in the group Wenger played a bunch of players with very little match time this season. As a result we now have an uphill task to come 2nd. This may pay off in the league against the chavs on Saturday but if not its a totally wasted opportunity.