#ThrowbackThursday - Man Utd at Home

Part one of a lookback at visits from this weekend’s opponents



#ThrowbackThursday - Man Utd at Home


Many Man Utd fans have been accused over the years of jumping on the Old Trafford bandwagon, which is kind of ironic as the club they support originated from the Carriage and Wagon Department of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railways depot in the Newton Heath area of Manchester which bore their original name in 1878 (an area which actually lies nearer to the Etihad Stadium than Old Trafford). The club originally played friendly matches against other departments of Lancashire and Yorkshire Railways, until playing their first competitive match in October 1886 in the First Round of the FA Cup. When the Football League was founded in 1888, Newton Heath instead opted to join a similar newly formed League competition called The Combination League, which like the former at that particular time, included sides mainly from the North and Midlands.

Unlike the twelve team Football League however, the Combination had twenty sides and no central organisation with the clubs left to organise their own fixtures. The result was chaos, and the Combination League was forced to disband the following April before all of the 1888/89 fixtures were fulfilled. For the 1889/90 season Newton Heath, along with several other Combination League sides formed another Football League competitor in the Football Alliance, which lasted for just three seasons when it was decided to merge the Football Alliance with the Football League and create a Second Division of the Football League to encompass this. In 1892/93 Newton Heath were elected to the First Division of the Football League on account of finishing second in the final season of the Alliance.

In Newton Heath’s first season in the First Division however they finished rock bottom, but were saved by the fact that instead of promotion and relegation, the bottom side had to play a ‘Test Match’ against the winners of the Second Division, of which they beat Small Heath (now Birmingham City) to stay up. In their second season Newton Heath finished rock bottom again, but this time went down as a result of losing 0-2 to an ‘invincible’ Liverpool side which were unbeaten throughout the whole of the 1893/94 Division Two season. Newton Heath were to stay in the Second Division for the next twelve seasons and first met Woolwich Arsenal at the Manor Ground in Plumstead in March 1895, which Arsenal won 3-2.

While down in Division Two, at the end of the 1901/02 season Newton Heath FC finished just one position off the bottom of the Football League and were served with a winding up order after their club president William Healy took the club to court over a debt which equated to a quarter of a million pounds in today’s money. The man who saved the club had been club captain Harry Stafford, who at a fundraising event for Newton Heath attached a collection box to his St Bernard dog, which escaped and caught the attention of a wealthy brewer called John Henry Davies. After a conversation with Stafford, Davies decided to buy the club and wipe out its debt, as well as renaming it as Manchester United. Ironically however, the death of Harry Stafford’s ailing son Harry Jnr. eighty six years later was actually attributed to the serial killer GP Dr Harold Shipman, after the deadly doc was convicted for his acts in 2000! (Although Wayne Rooney’s brother would show little in the way of sympathy here)

The earliest video footage of a Manchester United game hails from 1902 here against fellow Lancastrians Burnley. The first era of success for Manchester United would come with the appointment of Ernest Mangnall in 1903 (who alongside Busby and Ferguson is one of only three Manchester United title winning managers), who had got the club out of the Second Division in 1906, followed by United’s first star signing former Manchester City winger Billy Meredith who was forced to leave the Sky Blues after an attempted bribery scandal which left him suspended for a season. Meredith also outdid Ryan Giggs and played for United until the age of forty six! United won their first League title in 1908 and first FA Cup in 1909 beating Bristol City 1-0 at Crystal Palace. The following season, the Football Association withdrew its recognition of the Football Player’s Union, uncomfortable with the fact that the union - formed in 1907 by Manchester United's Billy Meredith and Charlie Roberts – had been challenging football’s governing body on matters such as the maximum wage and Footballer’s employment rights.

The FA ordered footballers across the country to resign from the union or have their player’s registration cancelled. Many complied and withdrew their membership, however the whole of the Man Utd side refused and earned the moniker of ‘Outcasts FC’ as a result. Meredith would speak despairingly at the lack of assertiveness among his fellow pros, stating: ‘so many players refuse to take things seriously but are content to live a kind of schoolboy life and to do just what they are told…instead of thinking and acting for himself and his class’. It was also during the 1909/10 season when Manchester United also moved to their Old Trafford home. The following season, Ernest Mangnall’s Manchester United would be League Champions again, however Mangnall left Old Trafford to defect to Manchester City which brought United’s first period of success to an end and it would be another thirty seven years before United would win another trophy.

During the inter-war period Manchester United were largely overshadowed by Manchester City, with this Pathe footage of the Sky Blues defeating United 3-0 in the 1926 FA Cup Semi Final. One thing you note about the Arsenal v Manchester United fixture is a distinct lack of Pathe News footage, on account of the fact that during Arsenal’s dominant period in the 1930s Manchester United were languishing in the second tier after being relegated in 1930/31 and spending six of the following eight seasons there prior to World War Two. One of their rare seasons in the top tier during the 1930s being 1936/37, with a training session of theirs covered by Pathe. In 1937, Manchester United appointed Walter Crickmer who instigated the youth system which would serve the club well in the years to come (Crickmer was moved upstairs in 1945 to become club secretary and perished in the Munich Air Crash).

As the Second World War drew to close, in February 1945 Manchester United made the pivotal appointment of former Manchester City and Liverpool forward Matt Busby as manager. United were forced to play at Maine Road until 1949 as Old Trafford had to be rebuilt due to bomb damage, which came at a cost of £5000 per year (around £200,000 in today’s money) and a percentage of the gate receipts payable to Man City. While at Maine Road, United achieved their record home attendance of 83,260 against league leaders and that season’s title winners Arsenal in January 1948. That season United ended their trophy drought by winning the 1948 FA Cup Final against the Blackpool side of Matthews and Mortensen, 4-2.

For the first four seasons after the Second World War, Man Utd finished runners up in the league for four years out of five. Here Man Utd beat a Leeds side (in the days before they adopted white shirts) 4-0 in an FA Cup tie in January 1951. United secured their first League title in forty one years in 1951/52. On the last day of that season, United only had to avoid losing to Arsenal by seven clear goals at Old Trafford to take the title and inflicted a 1-6 defeat on the battle weary Gunners, whose season is detailed here in full from an article of mine written in 2012.

United’s 1951/52 championship winning side dissolved not long after, however the following season United would win the inaugural FA Youth Cup for the first of five consecutive years. By the 1955/56 season, several of the youth side had graduated to the first team and with a side with an average age of twenty two had won the league title that season. The following month however Busby’s Babes took on Tottenham Hotspur in Yankees Stadium in New York and suffered a 1-7 defeat. This hilarious American newsreel footage, which refers to ‘the Tottenham Hotspurs v the Manchester Uniteds’ and wrongly claims that United took Spurs’s title could almost have been a parody! Man Utd however shook off that defeat and retained the League title the following season.

It’s often thought that sympathy arising from the Munich Air Crash created Man Utd’s huge non-Manchester fan base, however the birth of live televised European football pre-dated this and United’s first European Cup campaign saw them take on the dominant Real Madrid side at Old Trafford in the second leg of the Semi Final. Despite this being an afternoon fixture due to Old Trafford having no floodlights, it achieved a record audience figure of 6.5 million viewers for the newly formed ITV network. United lost 3-5 on aggregate on what turned out to be a tempestuous affair between the two sides. Man Utd’s televisual profile also heightened further after reaching the 1957 FA Cup Final against Aston Villa in an attempt to be the first side of the twentieth century to win the League and FA Cup double, however an injury to goalkeeper Ray Wood in the era before substitutes put paid to this.

As is well known, Man Utd’s second attempt at European glory was to come with tragic consequences. The final fixture played by the Busby babes in England took place at Highbury on February 1st 1958. Sadly, nothing of this game is captured on camera but many who witnessed it have referred to it being the greatest game they ever witnessed. Arsenal were 0-3 down at half time, but pulled level with goals from David Herd and two for Jimmy Bloomfield. Goals for Dennis Violet and Tommy Taylor put Arsenal 3-5 behind, with Derek Tapscott adding Arsenal’s fourth for a thrilling finale. The game ended in a 4-5 defeat for Arsenal.

The final game for the Busby Babes came not in Munich (as the side’s plane had been refuelling there on route home), but away against Red Star Belgrade as United had secured their passage to the European Cup Semi Final on the back of a 3-3 draw (5-4 on aggregate). This here is BBC news report of the Munich Air Crash that evening. One urban myth which sprung up about the Munich Air Crash is that former Arsenal goalkeeper John Lukic was the unborn child carried by a passenger called Vera Lukic on the flight. This however is refuted by the fact that John wasn’t born until 1961. There were twenty two fatalities from the flight, eight of which were Manchester United players and six of whom were under the age of twenty five.

Contrary to popular account, Duncan Edwards had survived the crash itself and on waking from the crash enquired with Manchester United’s assistant manager Jimmy Murphy as to what time the kick off against Wolves on Saturday was, incredibly asserting a wish to declare himself fit to play. Doctors were even confident of a recovery for Edwards, however as a result of severe kidney damage Edwards lost his battle fifteen days post-accident on 21st February 1958. Of those who survived, Munich was also a painful memory as seen on recollection of Bobby Charlton’s episode of ‘This Is Your Life’ from 1969 @02.53. Four days on from the death of Duncan Edwards, United’s fixtures resumed with a 3-0 home win against Sheffield Wednesday in the fifth round of the FA Cup.

Man Utd, with Jimmy Murphy taking over for the rest of the season in place of a recovering Matt Busby, managed to reach the 1958 FA Cup Final but fate dealt a cruel blow again losing 0-2 with a famous goal from Nat Lofthouse bundling United goalkeeper Harry Gregg over the line, which obviously wouldn’t have stood today. United’s season came to a close with the European Cup Semi Final in May 1958 and after a taking a 2-1 lead to Milan from the first leg, United slumped to a 0-4 defeat in the San Siro which brought a painful season to a trophy-less conclusion, also finishing ninth in the league table. Man Utd rebuilt their side after the Munich Air Crash and even finished runners up the following season, however shamefully players who survived the crash but were forced to retire through the injuries suffered by the crash, such as Jackie Blanchflower and Johnny Berry were evicted by Manchester United from their club-owned dwellings to make way for the new signings.

Man Utd did however experience an early 1960s slump in form, failing to win trophy for another five years post-Munich. The club also finished as low as fifteenth position in 1961/62 and narrowly avoided relegation by one point, finishing nineteenth in 1962/63. After the pre-Munich meeting at Highbury, Arsenal would win four games out of five against United at home, some of which were high scoring games. Twelve months on from Munich, Arsenal beat Man Utd 3-2 at Highbury with two goals from John Barnwell and one from David Herd. In April 1960 Arsenal achieved a 5-2 win with a hat-trick for Jimmy Bloomfield, as well as Danny Clapton and Gerry Ward on the scoresheet. The following October, Arsenal would defeat United 2-1 with goals from John Barnwell and David Herd. In October 1961 Arsenal would dish out a 5-1 drubbing to United with goals from John Barnwell, George Eastham, Gerry Ward and two for Alan Skirton. In September 1963, Arsenal would score a 2-1 win over United with goals from Joe Baker and George Eastham.

Man Utd’s 1963 FA Cup victory over Leicester however would be a vital turning point for the club, along with the signing of Denis Law (who most modern United fans probably think is a personal injury solicitors!) in August 1962 and the emergence of George Best who made his United debut in September 1963. The introduction of Match of the Day in 1964 further developed Manchester United non-Manchester fan base and in November 1964, the first meeting between Arsenal and Man Utd on the programme ended in a 2-3 defeat for Arsenal. United raced into a 3-0 lead with goals from John Connelly and two for Denis Law, Arsenal however pulled it back with goals from Terry Anderson and George Eastham. Manchester United were to finish that season as League Champions for the first time since the Munich Air Crash.

Arsenal however would avenge that home defeat the following season with a superb 4-2 victory with goals from George Armstrong, Joe Baker, George Eastham and John Radford. Later that season however, Manchester United’s George Best would set the football world alight with a blistering performance away at Benfica, winning 5-1, which would earn him the moniker ‘El Beatle’ and elevate him to the level of a ‘pop star’ footballer. Manchester United would win a further league title in 1967, however that would be their last for another twenty seven years. United took City to the final day of the season in 1967/68, however would concede the title with a 1-2 home defeat against Sunderland. A post-match conversation between Matt Busby and City manager (former Arsenal captain) Joe Mercer shows a level of sportsmanship unimaginable in today’s Premiership, with Joe wishing Matt well for the upcoming European Cup Final at Wembley, which they duly won 4-1 becoming the first English side to do so.

Earlier that season, in February Man Utd inflicted a 0-2 defeat on Arsenal at Highbury. The European Cup win however was to be the zenith for Busby’s side, who faced a steady decline thereafter following his resignation in 1969. It would also be the beginning of a halcyon age for Arsenal in the history of this fixture, as United would fail to register a victory against Arsenal at Highbury in all competitions for the next fifteen years. Sir Matt Busby’s last visit to Highbury on Boxing Day of 1968 ended with an emphatic 3-0 win for Arsenal, with goals from George Armstrong, David Court and John Radford.

On Busby’s retirement he had took up a place on the United board of Directors, with former Busby Babe Wilf McGuiness (who mercifully avoided the Munich Air Crash as a result of injury ruling him out of the trip to Belgrade) took over as manager. McGuiness was forced to retire through injury at the age of twenty two and took over from Busby at the age of just thirty one. His first trip to Highbury in September 1969 resulted in a 2-2 draw, with George Graham and Jon Sammels on the scoresheet for Arsenal while David Sadler and George Best were United’s scorers. For the next nine years however, for every Man Utd visit to Highbury Arsenal would not fail to score less than three goals in each match. In 1970/71, Arsenal met Man Utd at Highbury in late August which led to a 4-0 win for the Gunners with goals from George Graham and a hat-trick for John Radford.


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59
comments

  1. jjetplane

    Oct 02, 2015, 11:41 #76852

    Trumpets anyone?! Surpassed himself there. 'Hobbes - who is that at the door?' Ha ha ha!

  2. Badarse

    Oct 02, 2015, 9:13 #76844

    Morning gentlefolk. John F, have worked on a basis of 'in and out', in Surbiton, have nice memories of the area-as an assassin it always leaves a nice feeling if you hit your 'mark',(only kidding'). Pleased the posts from Ron and I also hit their 'marks'. Did a number in Hull once too. On cue is Mark, hi buddy, am not gunning for you, ha ha. I am a peculiar individual, but I think we all are in differing ways. My way is a phlegmatic style, I need it to counter my natural emotive behaviour. It's a pendulum swing between exaltation and a controlled, if forced, zen-like state. e.g 'Ah joy, here is my boiled egg, got me 'soldier'...no! Me yolk's hard!' CRASH! 'Calm down Baddie, wipe the egg off the wall before the wife sees it.' Know what I mean? Bipolar? It's funny, AKnewBest sets himself as a trailblazing 'leftie', yet I've probably been on more demos, rally's and held more conversations and discussion groups regarding politics, than he's thrown hard boiled eggs at the wall. There are times to fight and times to rest. Some battles are worthless and time wasting exercises. The problem seen by most is not wrong but is different from fan to fan. Some see Usmanov as the solution, others see this player, that manager, the grumbles rage and spill onto the new stadium, then the new badge gets criticised. If all these people were marching on the capital they wouldn't be a 'movement', they'd be a rabble. So I wouldn't join it. If you want to lose honourably go with the gang in 'Les Miserables', something worth dying for. Evolution will alter the mix, it's happening all the time. AW is having marital stress, he, players, the board, are ageing, as are we all. The dynamics of the world are creating nuances as wide as the San Andreas fault, and as deep as the Mariana Trench, (even you can witness them Bard if you look hard enough). New legislation, rule changes, geo-politics, individual's altered directions, will all play their part. Life is a moving tapestry, why even I won't always be around to entertain you guys for ever-it will just seem that way! If people want to protest I would defend their right to do so, have quoted Voltaire before, but reserve the right to oppose their protest, or to just do the 'fool on the hill' bit and shake my head knowingly, recognising failure accelerating towards them. We are the most magnificent of football clubs, and with all our drawbacks, frustrations, carbuncles, and limitations, I still believe it is the greatest legacy a parent can give their offspring, or someone else's, to make them a little Gooner. Like Wink Martindale's 'Deck of Cards' it can travel with them every step of the way, it has with me and my family, and some fortunate friends.

  3. Charlie George Orwell

    Oct 02, 2015, 8:08 #76843

    Great stuff again Robert. I remember watching the newly signed Alan Ball whose transfer fee was reported as being literally equivalent to his weight in gold. I wonder what price that would equate to now?

  4. mbglehu8p

    Oct 01, 2015, 23:41 #76840

    Mark, I've said it before and i'll say it again we're all watching, AKB's wengerites (and they'll not like it)his luvvies everyone the last days of wenger, and they can't come soon enough.

  5. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 01, 2015, 23:12 #76838

    I'm trying to remember who did the podcast but a few years ago they interviewed a chap who had access to Wenger and Dein. Think the fella had burned his bridges so he may have thought no further harm in talking. Basically he painted a picture of an increasingly isolated figure, he'd gone from literally popping around to David Dein's place and so on to literary having security fencing installed, visitors by appointment and increasing isolation within the house with his wife and daughter. The chap predicted Wenger would be off back to France particularly if daughter studied in France. Anyway could be complete waffle but I think he is international in his outlook completely un anglicised with any social based in France. It wouldn't shock me if he decided to go to the Paris batchelor pad and say goodbye to us. Either way it feels like the long path to the end

  6. jeff wright

    Oct 01, 2015, 23:12 #76837

    There certainly is some confusion Bard regarding recent summer signings . Wenger comes out with statements that he is happy with his players that he has ( when is he not) only for Ozil or Welbeck to be signed promptly afterwards. Stan was without doubt involved in those two signings and all the available evidence suggests that it was not Wenger who advised him to sign those pair. As Ron said Wenger's comments about Ospina and Chesnay at the end of last season hardly suggested that HE thought that a new GK was a priority . After all he stuck with Almunia for donkeys years. Wenger's had other problems off-field of course in his private life and far be it for me to speculate on such things but the facts are that along with running his Hollywood based football franchise of which he is the only director ( natch!) these affairs can't have helped him in his attempt to do everything himself at AFC. There could well be as you suggest something in Ospina's contract regarding him playing a certain number of games but this is usually got around with playing GK's in that situation in domestic cup games. Cech would have expected to play in Champions League ones and what are the odds on him not facing Bayern Munich - clauses in Ospina's contract or not. I stick with the view that Wenger did what he has done countless times and underestimated the opposition in the two CL games and was also trying to prove to his critics that he can manage without Cech . He probably fobbed Cech off by saying I am saving you to avoid injury for more important and tougher games. Having said that the defensive problems we have will have still been there with Cech ,he was in goal for the 2-0 defeat at home to WHU ! So I doubt that it would have made any difference v Zagreb and at best a draw against the Greeks would have most likely been the best that we would have achieved even with Cech in goal. I looked at last seasons GK errors costing teams points table a few weeks ago and we lost 5 points down to GK errors and Chelsea 3 last season. If we accept that Cech should have saved the 2 goals he conceded against WHU then we are already 3 points down so he has some work to do to better the 5 that Ospina and Chesnay lost last term. Sunday will be a good game to start-keeping clean-sheets in for Cech. It looks like a tough call though with what he has in front of him, and that's just our players !

  7. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 22:15 #76836

    Yes, the marital situ is very apt. I dont like to mention it too much on here as its not our place and nor do we have any right to speculate do we, but yr right Bard, he simply cant be fully in tune with things however cordial he might be with his spouse. If it isn't cordial then a split involving that level of wealth will be hugely stressful.

  8. Bard

    Oct 01, 2015, 21:56 #76835

    Jeff/Ron its debatable what or who drives the Arsenal transfer policy. Ozil emerged from nowhere after we spent the whole of that window trying to sign a striker. There is some evidence that Wenger cant make up his mind one way or another. Piers Morgan was very clear that he had inside evidence that stated that Ospina was contracted to play in a specified number of games. Jeff you raised a very interesting point about the chaos of Wengers private life. Anyone who has been through a marital break up knows you arent at the races period of time.. Brendan Rogers has been in a similar situation and look where he is with Liverpool . Interesting times indeed.

  9. mbg

    Oct 01, 2015, 21:42 #76834

    Mark from Alyesbury, it would be fantastic to get rid of all three alright, but i'd settle for TOF first at least we'd be on the right track.

  10. jeff wright

    Oct 01, 2015, 20:49 #76832

    mbg, I think Ron is right about Wenger having been under pressure to sign Cech, he was a cheap option to help keep supporters quiet with regarding the no signings in the summer. Wenger though never joined in the signing Cech will turn us into Champs nonsense. So it would appear that Wenger was trying to show for reasons of his own ego that he can manage without him by playing Ospina in the Euro games. I agree with Ron that Cech is not as good as he once was - ironically however he would be having similar problems now at the chavs that he is getting with us with JT looking like a spent-force.Things are going from bad to worse for Arsene and he can't blame anyone other than himself for this.

  11. John F

    Oct 01, 2015, 20:27 #76830

    Great post baddie.I was too young to know what was going on in the sixties regarding Utd.I often wondered how they managed to get such a huge support.I once managed an under 11 football side in Surbiton,when we had training out of the 20 or so that turned up at least half had Utd shirts on.In Hull quiet a few up here support hull and Utd.As the saying goes you are never more then 10 feet away from a Utd fan.If only there was such a thing as a Utd pest controller as I think I've got one in the loft.

  12. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 01, 2015, 19:01 #76828

    Badarse and Ron what a combo of intuitive thought and common sense. Take mr AW out of the conversation and calmness reigns. Really even allowing for differing views about AW, it needs a change of either AW, Kronke or Ivan to get some sort of change. I would prefer all 3 to go personally but the holy trinity of let's keep doing the same thing over and over as it pays in cash , it's relatively risk free and we don't have too many ruffians turning up at our gates with burning torches. In fact a rice crispy shop in Bricklane kopped it instead. It is Very bad form to bet on who dies first ( did you know this was why insurable interest law was brought into life assurance to stop mortality bets) but it might take death by natural causes to see change. Let's hope we are all full of life when it happens.

  13. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 19:01 #76827

    I certainly agree with you Jeff that had it have been solely Wengers call, he wdt have bought Cech. He was always effusive about The Pole (i can never spell his name hence 'the Pole'so apologies to any Polish brethren amongst us) and earlier this Season he was publicly brimming about Ospina. Im not all sure Cech was universally was wanted by AFC. I have to admit too, i didnt want him. Hes no longer that much better than those we had/got in my honest view, though he seems a nice fella.

  14. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 18:42 #76826

    Yes, bang on Baddie. Yr 30s point is a great one as is where you say they were equipped for the PL and all that it was to bring. I d say that they were the only Club equipped for it what with their gate receipts and commercialism already having been in place there from that period which you rightly mention in the 60s onwards? We all know too dont we that had Murdoch have had his way, he d have had his TV and his shares in Utd until it was over ruled. Its self evident he saw them as his flagship. Beyond that we all look at the 'goings on' since that we all feel has underpinned their success dont we , Fergie time etc, ref baiting and all that stuff that Rafa said in 09 that the media slashed him to bits over, yet he was just saying what seemed the truth! Its ironic isnt it that the Clubs who all wanted the PL apart from the Gunners ie Spurs Everton Liverpool and Chelsea all who bullied the rest who were sceptical of its inception have all got very little from it relative to Utds haul of trophies. We all like to knock Chelsea, but in a way their money coming on stream and now City's has been the antidote to Utds iron grip becoming immovable. Daft as it seems, theyve saved the league from being totally monopolized much to Man Us (and Fergusons) chagrin.

  15. mbg

    Oct 01, 2015, 18:05 #76825

    jw, assuming the old past it one plays Cech, would it surprise anyone if the arrogant old fraud again flicked the v sign at us all in trying to prove himself right and played Ospina?

  16. mbg

    Oct 01, 2015, 17:51 #76824

    jw, spot on, I alluded to something similar in a post yesterday that playing Ospina was the TOF flexing his muscle and sticking his two fingers up at his critics and letting them know he's the boss and won't be told what to do, even if it is detriment to the team and on this occasion (like many others)it was.

  17. Badarse

    Oct 01, 2015, 17:31 #76822

    You are on to something there Ron. I think it's a combination of things. Those ingredients, as in baking, don't always make similar cakes for different chefs. They became a sympathy item after the crash, but did well considering, by getting to the Final that May. That carried them for a bit, then the Best era, the hair, the lionising by the media, girls, mini-skirts, the whole '60's razzmatazz. Monumental changes in society and a 'celebrity' type adoration followed. Best and the 'El Beatle' label. Of course they had to achieve otherwise it all counted for nothing-and they did. The fairy tale European Cup win on the tenth 'anniversary season' of the Munich disaster just raised their stock value. Again Busby was a diplomat and seemed a really nice man-he worked overtime to keep Best on the straight and narrow, and didn't always succeed. The PL made them though because they'd fallen from grace in the '70's and were just one of a number of 'good' clubs around that time and after-we have referred to those halcyon days a few times, haven't we? They just happened to have a good side, and the resources to take advantage of the situation when the PL kicked off, and then the title, then the next and so on. Having attendances of double our own as we entered the PL era meant we were running fast to lose ground as the money kept pouring in. Sky TV and good marketing, (or very clever marketing), made them a household name. I remember kids' bedrooms plastered with their club badge wallpaper, lamp standards, bed linen, etc. Again they had to be successful to keep the bandwagon rolling though, once more they did. In the provinces kids, men, crave an identity and choose a winning one just by supporting them. Having never left their one-horse towns, never been anywhere apart from Majorca, or achieved, they found that by putting on a shirt it gave meaning to their lives. They too were winners. Can you imagine the technology being as it is today when we entered the '30's? We would have been 'Kings of the World!'

  18. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 16:54 #76821

    Baddie - Utd certainly bring the worst sentiments out don't they. I often think its the media love in (since 58 maybe?) for them and Fergie that s done it latterly, though even with past very acceptable bosses like Busby and Sexton, they were never liked were they. They're the Bayern of England!! Theres an arrogance to them isn't there that grates. The thing is though, a club needs it to succeed and they always have it. They always have players with massive belief, or seem to and once inside OT that belief is just reinforced. Its a strong force for other Clubs to face down. Even their weaker teams play like they expect to win and always have. Utd are Bovril - detest or love them. No in between.

  19. Badarse

    Oct 01, 2015, 16:41 #76820

    Met an old chap on Tuesday waiting for his daughter outside a shop. He had an Arsenal baseball cap on and it looked a little incongruous. I stopped, saying, 'I feel I should almost salute you!' He said, 'Are you one, too?' Which sounds quite funny, but am quite good at the old 'one, twos'. He was from Coventry and said he'd been in the RAF and stationed with the Compton brothers, and had supported them since winning the title in 1948. He remarked about the match on Sunday saying, 'Ooh, I hate them buggers!' It was a really lovely little chat.

  20. jeff wright

    Oct 01, 2015, 16:18 #76819

    Both us and United have defensive problems Ron and both tend to switch off at times . So a draw could be on the guards as you have suggested . Although LVG will feel more confident than our own stressed out looks as though the end is nigh manager regarding the game. I can see Wenger going all gung-ho to try and get the first goal and with plodding Per and the other rather erratic defenders that we have it looks likely to me that Cech will be the busier of the two GK's - with United's quick wide players causing problems on the counter attack . Speaking of GK's it may well come down to which one of the pair has the best game. How would City have fared last night without Hart in goal - in my view they would not have won that game in Germany if Pell had used the clown they had in goal on Saturday at the lane of pain, where off-sides are on-side,if it's the home one that is. Some still can't work out though why Wenger buys a top GK , who has vast experience of playing in and winning European tournaments , and then in two Euro games , one a must win game as he at first claimed , but now says otherwise , then goes and leaves him out to play his inferior second string goal-keeper. When Wenger made his comments about Ospina having kept 14 clean sheets last season he conveniently forgot to mention the absolute mare that he had against Monaco in the home game against them last season. Another game in which we were supposedly odds on certs to win. So it's not actually as though the danger of playing Ospina was not self - evident - if you take account of that game. The explanation though for Wenger leaving Cech out is most likely in my view down to his well known arrogance in dismissing some opponents chances of beating him and also more importantly because of his feud with Mourinho . Wenger's huge ego must have taken a big knock when he was forced to buy the Portugeezer's second string GK because it was being claimed that his own ones were not good enough .Wenger was typically once again trying to prove his critics wrong by playing Ospina ,but only succeeded in proving them right. Is that though not the story of Wenger's life he has been proven wrong time and again but still carries on regardless making the same mistakes (yawn) season after dreary season... You couldn't make it up.

  21. Badarse

    Oct 01, 2015, 16:18 #76818

    Hi Ron. Yes they had won titles, but as you say it is all relative. To this laddie, (the Baddie laddie?), they were down that list I mentioned. They'd won two titles in '08 and '11, when everyone wore whiskers so that was ancient history to me. In a 'purple patch they won another three in '52, '56' 57. Then came the crash! It wasn't until '65 then '67 that they picked up two more, so the period I was talking of was after the air crash and before the Law/Charlton/Best period in the mid-late '60's.

  22. Man United Killer

    Oct 01, 2015, 16:03 #76816

    Specialist in Failure...

  23. mbg

    Oct 01, 2015, 15:33 #76814

    SKG, as Ron says they tried but failed miserably (and I bet they even knew that themselves) Jim white's another one on transfer deadline day, embarrassing, although there was no need for screaming for effect, or to embarrass himself as far as Arsenal were concerned this deadline, wenger did that himself.

  24. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 15:13 #76811

    A bore fest 1-1 for me Jeff. A score they d both agree with pre game if truth be known. Utd get a pen to take the lead. Rooney pots it. Sanchez equalises late on. Utd only need a draw and know how to get one. Arsenal wont have the balls to go for it (do they ever v Utd now?) and beat them, esp after mid week. They need just to avoid a loss to bolster the pathetically fragile confidence. Factor in as well that AFC has has a deep rooted cultural fear of Utd and have had for 10 yrs. Not easily shifted, even though Utd are a very beatable team in truth.

  25. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 15:01 #76810

    SK - They try and do it by the repeated showing of that Aguero goal v QPR dont they with that screaming oaf of a commentator giving it large. Fails miserably. I reckon that game was fixed. Always thought it.

  26. jeff wright

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:56 #76809

    I agree Ron that the majority of the crowd at home games these days are different to what they were pre the Emirates Experience. Also though there is the weird Wenger cult followers that have to be taken account of. I heard one on the radio yesterday claiming that he was satisfied with the way things are going although I reckon that he was lying about this.He gave the game away with a couple of digs at Wenger by saying that Walcott was useless as a striker and we should have better than a striker who has only scored one goal with his head in his career and who misses too many easy chances. He also said that Wenger is too loyal to some players that he should really get shut of. So in reality like all of the AKB's this guy was not really satisfied with things under Arsene but due to the hypnotic like spell that Wenger holds over his followers he couldn't admit this. The most telling comments though on Wenger and his tactics came from the player who scored the 3rd goal the other night he said that,we know they don't defend and would leave spaces so we exploited that. Hardly rocket-science but it was, recent home results going back to last term h prove , good enough to beat Arsene .Will things be any different against United on Sunday > ?

  27. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:54 #76808

    Ron MBG, can you imagine if the PL & SKY had May 89 to cover - you would have to disinfect the studio's afterwards! SKY & the PL can try till hell freezes over there will never be a night like it ever again!

  28. Cyril

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:44 #76806

    Ron, I know this piece is not a lovefest 89 , but it is all inextricably linked. I remember being in a pub for that game and having a love in with all the passengers on the northern line back to archway. I am surprised I wasn't sectioned that night. I was in the bull and bush in Hampstead on the following Sunday evening and there were revellers jumping on cars outside the pub and that's 2 days later. They had just come back from Liverpool. I am so pleased you were there live Ron. If I had a delorean, I know my first destination. Class!

  29. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:36 #76805

    Baddie - OT was a ramshackle dump too till 1966 when they re vamped it for the WC. They did have 4 or 5 titles though by the 60s. That was quite a lot wasn't it comparatively.

  30. mbg

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:36 #76804

    Your dead right Ron the whole thing (just like wenger and his team)is one big bore fest really but some just love the razzmatazz, even sky tv has got in on the act you just have to listen to those so called expert studio guests, merse Nicholas, Thompson, and co and the biggest knob of them all stelling, screaming for effect like girls at a strip show if the ball reaches the eighteen yard box, and have you ever heard (well you wouldn't as we know you got rid wise decision) them if the ball hits the bar, or a pen is awarded ? my god talk about trying to big it all up the screams of them, like wenger arsenal at this time embarrassing.

  31. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:24 #76802

    Yes Cyril it kicked off in 91 at OT too. Mac Clair carrying on from that 88 game. AF had us in his sights by then. He claimed they broke Liverpools dominance. Its a great big manc lie isnt it. They didnt. We did. I went to Anfield in May 89 ironically courtesy of a Utd fan who cd always get tickets for most games. Nothing will ever beat that night for me.We bricked it when we realised it was Micky T in on goal and you what ...i reckon he was bricking it too!

  32. Cyril

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:14 #76801

    Yes Ron it was. Forgot to mention, again kickstarted smudger's goal scoring with us. Header I recall. The catalyst of the battles and angst with Man U formed here with winterburn (legend) I would suggest. Lots came from that game. Thank the lord that Thomas didn't get the ball tangled up in his feet all those months later. Great great days Ron!

  33. Badarse

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:12 #76800

    Thank you Robert, excellent article once more. Have mentioned before that I was at the 4-5 game a few days before the air disaster. Saw Duncan Edwards but remember little of the actual football. Had great fun shouting at the Man.U fans nearby, (in the Clock End right behind the goal, and to East Stand side), throughout the interval. They gave us grief at HT but was saying we'll be back-not quite in an Arnie voice though-and we came back too. I remember getting back to 4-5 and throwing everything at their goal, came so close to snatching the game from the fire. The article kind of substantiates my view of our ascendency over them during my informative years, (early teens and beyond), after the air crash. Historically they were small potato even before the crash to this young lad who read and digested everything 'football'. I was guided by actual titles won it's true-kids often are-but they were well down the list in terms of being a 'big' club.

  34. mbg

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:04 #76799

    Well if we are stuffed and there's every likely hood of that at least the AKB's and wengerites will not be brought back down to earth too hard as that has already happened, but if their expecting their messiah and his dwarfs to have learned anything from Tuesday and to be up for it more, wanting to make up for it and put things right i'd keep their soft cushion at hand.

  35. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 14:00 #76798

    Recall that Cyril. Smudger goal?

  36. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 13:50 #76796

    Robert - got that mate! So sorry. My error by missing it but wasn't criticising you at all by thinking it had been missed. Excellent, well crafted article it is.

  37. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 01, 2015, 13:46 #76795

    Ron : Very good point about not making a more conscious and deliberate break from Highbury but I suppose we thought things would improve but putting it mildly we seemed to have lost our way and the club has lost it's soul.

  38. Cyril

    Oct 01, 2015, 13:44 #76794

    Feb 88: fa cup tie - set the scene for what was to come- don't you think Ron?Winterburn in mclair's earhole after the pen miss and Micky Thomas (legend) thru on goal after running thru the middle from our own half, one on one and fluffs it. 15 months later 'and its up for grabs now'. One of my favourite games between the two. Bring those days back please!!!

  39. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 13:40 #76793

    SK - We didnt realise did we that we should have said a far deeper goodbye as we left Highbury N5. I agree with you, it was the end of AFC as we knew it. You make a very good point. I stuck the new stadium for 4 seasons till the end of the 09/10 season as a regular. Ive been back 5 times since. Cant be doing with the place and i do have some time for the view that the new style 'customers' are a big inadvertent part of the Clubs problems. AFC has its glitzy trappings now but its barely a skeleton of what it was as an institution as you rightly say. Its just a razzamataz/celeb/showbiz driven game all round really now, amongst the top Clubs. You can attend these so called super sunday games now ie v Utd and Tottenham etc and its like attending a garden party pre match. No vitality, no passion,no tension, no fear, no sense of anticipation, no zip. These teams barely create any more of a stir than do Palace and Stoke. As you say, we used to be on tenterhooks by Tuesday in the week of these big games and positively bricking it by Friday. Saturday in the ground by 1.00 pm stomachs were knotted weren't they! Society has changed of course and the socio/economic landscape has changed markedly. We were lucky being introduced to football when we were. Sky and Co are re dressing football in their own image yet ironically they try and hark back to yesteryears attitudes of the fans and realities to try and infuse some life into it. They fail in the main.

  40. Robert Exley

    Oct 01, 2015, 13:29 #76792

    Andy - both articles this week were over 8000 words collectively so simply not the space to cover it. Will probably get a mention when we play United away. Ron - the Sep '69 meeting is mentioned in there as Wilf McGuinness's first meeting with Arsenal. Doesn't seem to be any footage of the game out there though. Not sure whether this is because MOTD and the Big Match failed to cover it or it simply hasn't been uploaded anyhere. Basically, if anyone has footage of any upcoming opponents that's not on YouTube and you know how to upload it, please do and Tweet me the link so I can include it. WYC - I saw the Paddy Roche footage about a day before Ospina's error and thought the same thing.

  41. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 01, 2015, 13:11 #76791

    Ron : The marketing forces behind the PL are trying to re write football history and the under 30's have swallowed it hook line & sinker. Some of the wiser heads remember the game being about the glory of winning or at least trying to win. I know I look back with rose tinted specs but it beats the hell out of watching some of the fakes that are in the game now. My Arsenal disappeared in 2006 when they moved to the new stadium - the name Arsenal is now more about an American franchise than a great English tradition. My Arsenal is the antediluvian (before the flood) Arsenal, when games like the visit of Manchester Utd was an event that built up during the week, without the b*llocks of TV promo and failed football pundits "painted a picture". Robert's great postings invokes wonderful memories of proper great days at Highbury and not a luvvie in sight. My guess is that for the first 10 - 15 minutes of the second half this weekend, half the fans will still be in the bars. The Premier League - do me a favour!

  42. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2015, 13:07 #76790

    Just watched the highlights and Keano saying Arsenal are 'mentally weak' and when you look at Wenger post match he really looks unfit for the job too. Dixon looks visibly angered by the ongoing farce and I cast back to Dixon and Kanu on an away in the north east at Middlesboro where we had the defence and total football up and running. As Dixon says 'forget the manager and do your job on the pitch' and now there are no voices and Per has turned his 'position' on the pitch into a cabaret act. Oh well - there is always Lewandowski to look forward to who has only bagged 10 in the last week! RON Brutus tartan, j tex, knitted perrys, levi cords and every colour under the rainbow Harringtons. Bit of James Bond, 10 No 6 and a soggy hot dog. Jon Sammuels was the man .....

  43. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 12:40 #76789

    SK - Yes , he did well in a very good Chelsea team didnt he. Played with Chris Garland. Another player i liked who also joined Leics. They make me laugh when they talk of great football never having occurred in days past. Load of boll---ks isnt it. Its a reflection of TV brainwashing though i suppose.

  44. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 01, 2015, 12:30 #76788

    Ron: Keith Weller : Spuds reject to Millwall, I would go to Millwall with my mates 68, 69 seasons and Weller always caught the eye. Remember that 2-2 game, Webster let a half hit shot from Best go under him for a real soft goal. That goal by Sammels was one of best seen at Highbury, it seem to gather even more speed as it hit the back of the net. I saw JS in a testimonial (Martin Keowns? anyone remember) He was outstanding, fit and still had a bit of pace about him, very sad the way he seemed to just fade out of the team in that mammoth 70 - 71 season.

  45. Tony Evans

    Oct 01, 2015, 12:26 #76787

    Thank you as usual Robert for bringing back so many good memories. Helps to blot out the current fiasco!

  46. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 12:00 #76784

    Good stuff Westie - bloody loved that team. Cd tell we were on the march by 1969 and then 71 came .......never bettered times as a supporter for me. PS they shd bring that kit back and never change it again .... EVER!! Ha ha. Im sure that kit though actually put some fear into teams. It was our true and real kit. It was meant for the Arsenal. Todays poncy, limp wristed efforts at kit styles dont get close do they.

  47. Cyril

    Oct 01, 2015, 11:55 #76783

    Robert, thank you so much for this piece. You have given me 'a pearler' about the Newton Heath getting elected to div 1. The grief I get from my Manx mates about our election in 1919 was getting me so down. I always crack on about our 1930's team and how we were the first truly dominant prolific club and they would come back with that old chestnut that we wouldn't of won any of those titles etc... I have my speech ready as I type/speak. Boy, they are going to get both barrels from me. Just to think that they were at it twenty years earlier . Ha ha ha.. Thank you !

  48. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 11:49 #76782

    JJ - thats it mate, sta - prest and Ben Sherman shirts! Lambretta 175. Army Navy 'grandad' tops with the faded jeans! I was always a 'Lee' jeans wearer though!! Great days.

  49. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2015, 11:48 #76781

    @Ron, Teams that day in 69: Webster, Rice, Storey, McLintock, Simpson, Court, Robertson, Sammels, Radford, Graham, Armstrong. Stepney, Dunne, Burns, Sadler, Ure, Fitzpatrick, Aston, Best, Charlton, Kidd, Morgan. Attendance 59,498. @WYC. Teams in 75: Rimmer, Rice, Nelson, Powling, O'Leary, Storey, Brady, Ball, Kidd, Stapleton, Armstrong. Roche, Nicholl, Houston, Buchan, B Greenoff, Daly, Coppell, McIlroy, Macari, Pearson, Hill. Attendance 40,102. No matter which year we go back to, the one common denominator is always Geordie Armstrong, how we could do with you now George.

  50. jjetplane

    Oct 01, 2015, 11:42 #76779

    Nice one RON and I think that 60 one sticks in the mind for seeing Mankies overturn a hot dog stall at the back of the clock end as us little skins watched from a nearby balcony. Very lively times they were and the typical image of one of their fans was fat, bearded with a smelly looking jeans jacket. Of course we were all stapres and levis - class. Still in the schoolboys at that point. Some great stuff above and still remember that Benfica game on the warm-up b/w tv ..... Nice one though always preferred City and Everton in those distant days .....

  51. Wear Your Colours

    Oct 01, 2015, 11:18 #76776

    I remember watching that game in 1975 as a young kid from the West Side, near the North bank.Paddy Roache's drop is very similar to the Ospina incident last night. Just goes to show that not much has fundamentally changed in football over the past 40-odd years. Game's can turn on great pieces of skill or rank bad mistakes. Let's hope the rub of the green goes our way on Sunday. COYG!

  52. Ron

    Oct 01, 2015, 11:16 #76775

    A nice read. No mention of the Sept 69 2-2 match though Robert? No worries, but it was my first 'live' Gunners v Utd game. Trouble on the North Bank that day. Always recall Malcolm Webster being drafted in to play goalie last minute. Cant recall why. Great game though. Sammels goal - a corker. Oft spoken of still today. I loved Jon Sammels and had the pleasure of seeing him play many times for Leics in a superb team of JS, Weller, Nish and Birchenall et al. Jimmy Bloomfield put that side together. They could really play football to a level rarely mentioned such is the emphasis on the 'big clubs'in the UK when good footie gets mentioned. On this point, going off on a tangent i know, best footballing teams ive ever seen in this Country are 1969/70 Everton and 1978 - 81 WBA, this latter Albion side under Atkinson really was exciting and swashbuckling for 2 of those seasons in particular. Great to see and there are a few on here who ll recall these teams. PS Our team of 2001 - 2002 in my view was better to see than the so called invincible s. We all have our views though.

  53. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2015, 11:06 #76773

    @SKG, Totally agree about Eastham always catching the eye. He was our outstanding player of the 60's & the only Arsenal player to make the England world cup winning squad of 1966.

  54. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 01, 2015, 10:39 #76770

    Great old Footage Robert, well put together and great memories. That 5-1 win in Oct 61 was the first season I started going to Highbury - whenever you see early sixties footage of Arsenal, it always seems George Eastham is on the ball, playing his trade mark pass inside the full back for Johnny McCleod to run on to, George had lovely ball control and scored some very good goals in his years at Arsenal.

  55. Denis

    Oct 01, 2015, 10:35 #76769

    I was at the 5-4 games at Highbury just a few days before the Munich disaster.Duncan Edwards was immense and not far behind were most of the other Man Utd players - Coleman, Taylor, Byrne. Fabulous players in a fabulous team

  56. Westlower

    Oct 01, 2015, 9:42 #76765

    Thanks for some wonderful memories Robert. Although Spurs were/are our great rivals geographically, the Man U game was the one most looked forward to every season. I saw every Highbury game (and a few at OT) against them from 1961 onwards & it was always a noisy affair. Historically they were always the big two clubs in England, despite Liverpool's dominant period.

  57. Bard

    Oct 01, 2015, 9:28 #76764

    Law, Best, two of the best players I have ever seen. Oh to have players half as good in our side. Read a lot about Duncan Edwards but only saw the black and white clips. By all accounts a sensational player.

  58. Andy Kelly

    Oct 01, 2015, 9:09 #76763

    No mention of the match fixing scandal in 1914/15?

  59. smithy

    Oct 01, 2015, 8:55 #76762

    Having watched depay and martial last night I fear they are going to get a cricket score against per and our wonderful zonal system. I hope we drop Ozil but I think he is untouchable in Arsenes eyes. I HOPE I AM WRONG.