#ThrowbackThursday – Arsenal v the Germans

Looking ahead to the game v Bayern Munich, part one of a look back at visits to from Teutonic opposition



#ThrowbackThursday – Arsenal v the Germans


Those of you who follow my weekly #ThrowbackThursday/#FlashbackFriday pieces would note that they usually centre on this week’s upcoming opponents, however the lack of video footage for previous Arsenal away trips to Watford means that the editions for Watford will be clumped together for a home and away piece when Arsenal meet Watford at home later on this season. Therefore, in recognition of Arsenal’s upcoming fixtures with Bayern Munich, this week’s editions will centre on the history of Arsenal’s past games with German opposition.

Arsenal’s first ever visit to Deutschland came just two years before the Great War in May 1912 as Woolwich Arsenal, in a 5-0 win against Hertha Berlin. The following day, the Gunners played out a 2-2 draw with Hertha’s neighbours Victoria Berlin. Twenty seven months on, hostilities broke out between the United Kingdom and Germany, the Football season however astonishingly carried on for another nine months before ceasing in May 1915 and not resuming for another four years. During the 1914/15 season however, Arsenal lost many players to the armed forces. Crowds also declined that season, the opening game against the Hill-Wood family’s original side - Glossop North End - brought a crowd of just 7,000 to Highbury. For the return fixture at Glossop only a tenth of that figure (700!) turned out to attend, leading Sir Samuel Hill-Wood to conclude that he could no longer bankroll the club, withdrawing from the game before re-emerging at Highbury in 1929 to take over as Chairman on Sir Henry Norris’s exit.

The Great War of 1914-18 was an inconvenience to Arsenal say the least, having only recently taking on the risk of moving the club to North London. Despite this, Arsenal chairman Sir Henry Norris would frequently make speeches at Highbury and Craven Cottage (the home of his other club – Fulham), urging young men in the crowds to volunteer for the forces. Also, on the 15th December 1914 Norris in his capacity as the Mayor of Fulham would also lend the use of Fulham Town Hall for the purpose of the formation of the 17th Service Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment (otherwise known as the ‘Footballer’s Battalion’). The first Arsenal member of the battalion was assistant trainer Tom Ratcliffe, who actually survived World War One and returned to his role at Highbury after the war.

Many of the Arsenal players still had connections to the Woolwich Arsenal and withdrew their footballing services to commit themselves fully to munitions work, which obviously went into over-drive on the outbreak of world war. One such player had been Bob Benson, who took in an Arsenal game in the war time London Combination League in 1916, against Reading. Arsenal were short on players and Benson offered his services, though had considerably lost his match fitness and during the game had burst a blood vessel and died in the Highbury dressing room. At his funeral, Benson had been buried in an Arsenal shirt. This here is a list of Arsenal players who served in the first world war, including those who were killed in action.

By the end of the First World War, when football would resume Arsenal would find themselves £60,000 overdrawn (the equivalent of £3.7 million in today’s money), though would have the luck of being ‘invited’ to take up a place in an extended top tier at the expense of relegated Tottenham Hotspur, despite finishing fifth in the second tier at the end of the 1914/15 season. After the First World War ended Arsenal would return to tour Germany in May 1924, winning five and drawing one. Among the victories had been a 6-1 defeat of Preußen Berlin, a 6-3 defeat of a Dusseldorf XI and a 9-0 thumping of Köln Sportklub 99. A year later, Herbert Chapman would be appointed as Arsenal manager and lead Arsenal to the summit of English football. Chapman’s Arsenal won their first trophy in 1930, winning the FA Cup Final against Huddersfield at Wembley. The Yorkshire side however would blame a second half interruption from the German Graf Zeppelin which hovered over the stadium, breaking the flow of their attempted comeback.

Chapman would avidly champion the creation of a western European version of the Mitropa Cup – a competition which involved top Central and Eastern European sides. Chapman however would pass away in 1934 and Europe would unfortunately become embroiled in further destructive conflict five years later. Forty two of the forty four professionals on Arsenal’s books when war broke out at the start of the 1939/40 season would enlist with the armed forces on the outbreak of the Second World War (one of whom who didn’t was Cliff Bastin on account of his deafness who instead served in the ARP). Nine of whom would lose their life - the highest casualty rate suffered by any English league club.

Two high profile losses among the Arsenal staff included Centre Half Herbie Roberts (who would die as a result of contracting Erysipelas while serving as a Lieutenant in the Royal Fusiliers) and Bobby Daniel, older brother of early fifties star Ray Daniel. The story of Bobby Daniel and other Arsenal player war-time fatalities is covered here in an article for footballpink.net by long time Gooner magazine contributor Layth Yousif. After Allied victory in Europe in May 1945, within three months an Arsenal XI (including a guest appearance from Blackpool’s Stan Mortensen) would entertain civilians in Dusseldorf with a fixture against a British Liberation Army XI, which Arsenal would win 6-1.

During the Second World War Highbury Stadium was commandeered by the ARP, forcing Arsenal to ground share with Tottenham for home fixtures until Football League fixtures resumed in 1946. The legacy of the Second World War on Arsenal was the extensive bomb damage which occurred to Highbury, with the North Bank stand destroyed by a German bomb in 1941. The cost of rebuilding Highbury arguably contributed to Arsenal post-war decline (for the first twenty five years after the Second World War, Arsenal won just three trophies). By 1970, Arsenal returned to trophy winning ways, with the Inter Cities Fairs Cup coming to Highbury. However, on defending the trophy in 1970/71 Arsenal would be eliminated on away goals to 1FC Koln, in what would be Arsenal’s first competitive fixture against German opposition. The Gunners won the home leg at Highbury 2-1 with goals from Peter Storey and Frank McLintock, however defeated 0-1 away.

Anyone reading this under the age of twenty five may well be surprised to learn that from the end of the Second World War up until 1989 there were actually two Germanys, as the country was partitioned between the Western side liberated from Nazi rule by Britain and the USA and the Eastern side by the Soviet Union. The Soviets wished to create a buffer zone of communist states between them and the west, thus creating what Winston Churchill referred to as the ‘Iron Curtain’ which descended across the European continent through the middle of Germany, between the east and the west. By the 1970s West Germany were becoming prominent in both club and international football, with the national side winning the 1974 World Cup on home territory and Bayern Munich completing a hat-trick of European Cup wins between 1974 and 1976, the second of which came from beating Leeds United 2-0 in 1975. East Germany however wasn’t quite as formidable on the football pitch and twenty five years on with German sides returning to prominence in the Champions League, it seems that the Eastern side of the country still lags a long way behind the west.

Also, since English clubs returned to European competition post-Heysel ban in 1990, Arsenal have qualified for European competition twenty two out of twenty five years. It may therefore come as a shock to many that between 1972 and 1978 Arsenal actually went six years without qualifying for Europe at all. Their return in September 1978 came against East German side Lokomotive Leipzig in the UEFA Cup. Terry Neill’s side won the first leg at Highbury 3-0 with goals for Alan Sunderland and two for Frank Stapleton. Two weeks later, Arsenal won by the same margin, this time with a 4-1 win in the away leg with goals from Liam Brady, Alan Sunderland and another two for Frank Stapleton.

Arsenal were to return to Eastern Germany once again thirteen months later in their 1979/80 European Cup Winners Cup campaign against FC Magdeburg, winning the first leg at Highbury 2-1, with goals from Willie Young and Alan Sunderland. In the away leg Arsenal scraped through with a 2-2 draw with goals from David Price and Liam Brady, taking the Gunners through 4-3 on aggregate. Arsenal’s last entry to European competition before the Post-Heysel ban would come in the shape of a first round elimination in 1982/83. That same year, Arsenal would sign England international Tony Woodcock returning back to England from German side 1FC Koln.

‘Woody’ would last four season at Arsenal, scoring sixty eight goals in one hundred and sixty nine games. Woodcock’s period at Arsenal oddly enough roughly coincided with the prominence of ITV comedy drama Auf Weidersehen Pet, based around a bunch of unemployed British brickies heading to Germany for work. In stark contrast to Jimmy Nail’s Oz, Woodcock would successfully adapt to Germany and even returning to the city of Cologne in 1986, playing out the remainder of his playing career with 1FC Koln and Fortuna Koln, before turning to management in the German league. Woodcock practically went native, even adopting a German accent when conducting interviews in English. His haircut these days however looks more akin to that of Robert Plant. Here is an interview with Tony in late 2013 on a piece on YouTube called ‘Insight Germany’. Woodcock remains one of the surprisingly few Brits who headed to the Bundesliga and remained for more than a year, along with Kevin Keegan, Alan McInally, Murdo McLeod, Paul Lambert and Owen Hargreaves.

After Heysel, Arsenal had to make do with prestige pre-season friendlies against top European opposition. Bayern Munich visited these shores in 1988 to compete within the Wembley International Tournament, with Arsenal hammering them 3-0 with two goals from Alan Smith and one for Lee Dixon. Arsenal however would not face German opposition in a competitive fixture for another eight years, before a man with a Germanic sounding surname would pitch up at Highbury to take up the vacated managerial hot seat in 1996.

Part two follows tomorrow.

*Follow me on Twitter@robert_exley


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36
comments

  1. Ron

    Oct 16, 2015, 12:23 #77448

    .. and there was me thinking that you were alluding to hairstyles Westie of which the Don, bless him never has one and all of the others do? Do i get a consolation point for effort?

  2. Westlower

    Oct 16, 2015, 9:29 #77436

    Who is the odd man out from these Arsenal managers, Terry Neill, Don Howe, Steve Burtenshaw, George Graham & Arsene Wenger? All lost games against Watford except for AW. Maybe he's due, but hopefully not tomorrow. Odds: Watford 5/1, Draw 3/1, AFC 8/13.

  3. Badarse

    Oct 16, 2015, 8:26 #77435

    Morning Mark from Aylesbury, there must always be pressure on all controlling/governing bodies. We have long since entered an era whereby any group, from 'tin pot' institutions, through multi-national companies, to governments have been able to exert a form of control. Religion doesn't escape this criticism, neither does AFC, or the clubs sponsors. Pressure, at all times. However be wary of those banging dustbin lids, overstepping the line, damaging the debate or the movements for change-those instruments and tools are vital. Often they are self serving individuals/group/company looking for a story or acknowledgement in vainglorious ways. It is really easy to hijack a mob mentality and redirect it. Am in accord. Power to the people.

  4. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 16, 2015, 7:42 #77434

    Jamerson- problem is you can't just tell share holders to bugger off . Hence a 30% share holder is causing problems for old Chips. Good to see in my book a strong questioning of opaque payments got to be a sensible thing. If Amy Lawrence is right and Chips had tried to close the meeting I suspect it could of got very interesting in the media for him.

  5. Tony Evans

    Oct 16, 2015, 5:41 #77433

    Hi Ron - Yep football really needs to get it's house in order asap. Still happy days apparently Wenger is off in June 2017!

  6. Badarse

    Oct 15, 2015, 22:28 #77432

    Griff: That jj is a rum fella.-Mel: No. Bitter.-G: Good old Arsenal.-M: You bet.

  7. mbg

    Oct 15, 2015, 22:25 #77431

    I just got a txt from an undercover WOB over at AKB central command, the successful business plan certificates have been presented and the party's in full swing with bouncing and photos, their about to head to the buffet of sausage rolls and vol-au-vents, although he informs me one or two keep sneaking out to tap away on their phones on some Arsenal site and come back in with faces like wenger after a defeat by Mourniho. He says he'll try and send an up date later when the baby cham starts to take effect (or the vol-au-vents) and they really let their hair down and start saying what they really think of the WOB's.

  8. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2015, 20:35 #77430

    Ha ha aha aha aha aha ah! Jayhawk for life me! Why are you two on here but while you are cosy up and talk about your God. I'll try and catch up with you both sometime. Up the real Arsenal! Have a good evening RON.

  9. Ron

    Oct 15, 2015, 20:14 #77429

    Never mind all this c--p. 'Time of our Lives'on Sky 5. Frankie Willow and GG. Proper Arsenal. Real Arsenal. Never to be bettered.

  10. Badarse

    Oct 15, 2015, 19:55 #77428

    What amuses me jj is that you have this magnanimous approach belittling all things commercial/capitalistic with an air of superiority, which I think is a tad delusional. I am in that camp but also recognise that lobbing bricks over my neighbours fence-metaphorically speaking-achieves no end. You mumble about a plethora of unconnected bits and pieces all to achieve an agenda-you don't like all things Arsenal. What is the difference between you and any other Sour supporter who professes to be a fan of AFC? If anyone can help then answers on a postcard to:-jj, OAP Retirement Home, Beachy on me Head, East born in the Hollow way.

  11. goonercolesyboy

    Oct 15, 2015, 19:47 #77427

    So this is a football site, well spotted jj. It also happens to be about all things Arsenal, not the ninth tier, not the Jayhawks or anything else you care to write about. We all get that you no longer support the Arsenal, your posts tell us that on a daily basis, so why the continued need to write on here?

  12. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2015, 19:42 #77426

    I think that's what they did say in not so many words. They prefer the shifty, patronizing responses commonly used by banks and hedge funds. Still - we have got Klopp to look forward to .....

  13. mbg

    Oct 15, 2015, 19:41 #77425

    jw, yes i'd imagine the bouncing is about to start at AKB central (as their not on here)with the baby Cham flowing on hearing that news. Ah yes the old financial fair play rules how the AKB's trumpeted that, and the more their messiah used it as an excuse for his failings and shortcomings the louder they got, how it was going to save us, how it was going to make a level playing field, how we all laughed (and rightly so) just like their own monsieur past it, monsieur Platini wasn't worried about a level playing field and cleaning up the game when he/they were making millions themselves, no word of financial fair play there.

  14. Jamerson

    Oct 15, 2015, 19:27 #77424

    If I was taking charge at that meeting I would have told those unregenerate loud mouthed windbags to mind their own business about AFC and start stumping up some proper cash to the best run club in the world or go take a leap down the lane of pain or that mockney freebie outfit west Am..

  15. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2015, 19:11 #77423

    Dear old BADDIE you still don't get anything! You keep going on about your support for Wenger yet you do not go. Take it on board mate. I support whoever is nearest and if that is Hibs, Exeter, Kansas Jayhawks or my present team that is my choice. To come on here and speak my mind about a club I was born into long before Wenger came on the scene that is also my choice. You going to see a grandson's team is meaningless and am very amused that you think people watch amateur football because they seek a higher moral ground. I tried it and I like it. It is football and this is a football forum and every player starts somewhere so get off your virtual PL bandwagon and go and see a game. And furthermore - where is the panto this year? Lol!

  16. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 15, 2015, 18:49 #77422

    On a different note looks like the Standard is running the last rites on Mourinho. Article suggests mutinous atmosphere and they have roped in Graham Le Saux to add to the slating. Looks like the Standard want a sacking. Question is does Roman want to pay out 30m to achieve it?!?

  17. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 15, 2015, 18:38 #77421

    Sounds like the AGM was feisty old Chips got heckled. I wonder if the ruffian got thrown out. Still no explanation for the 3 big ones that Stan takes. Usmanov sent a letter demanding an explanation as well. Will be interesting to hear from an attendee.

  18. mbg

    Oct 15, 2015, 18:35 #77420

    jj, heard that myself (as if it will make much difference)you can hear the celebrating already(I wonder which month though) like a new signing coming back to save us is usually the cry, until he's out again for three more. You couldn't make it up.

  19. Badarse

    Oct 15, 2015, 18:26 #77419

    jj you clearly are disturbed in some way. You proclaim yourself an Arsenal fan, yet take pot shots at all things Arsenal. You vouch never going to the club for over a decade and state a determination never to go again, yet use the flimsy qualification of attendance as a stick to try to beat people with. You maintain a level of haughtiness due to going to 9th tier football, as if this is somehow more honourable than attending PL games to watch the Arsenal. With that in mind I again out trump you, as I go to under 16s football weekly with my grandson, plus every training session for the kids-assisting whenever required which is generally every week, and of course I write the reports. How noble is that? Not noble at all. I go because I want to and do not have any agenda or perverted need to try to gain one upmanship on anyone. No 'brownie' points you see? It is borderline rude to suggest a fan unable to attend games is somehow deficient-can you seriously believe that those fans around the world are something less than yourself because they are in another country and unable to attend? That my friend is a very narrow view, and a little bit ratty. As for LOL, who are you appealing to? There are perhaps many laughing at you, that you wouldn't appreciate-this I say on behalf of all those said Arsenal fans around the globe who might be offended by that weak and silly 'territorial' outlook. Just take a tip, comment when there is something worthwhile to add-as in The 'Stan' post, or at least be pleasant, even humorous, cut out the 'I'm an old lonely man in a room' type posting. Now sing along, 'Good old Arsenal, we're proud to say that name...'

  20. mbg

    Oct 15, 2015, 18:17 #77418

    Looking Ahead ? there was times when we'd be looking forward to, and eager for games like this/these, times have changed though and we all know why and who to thank for that. Sad times.

  21. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2015, 17:56 #77417

    Ain't that the truth (strands of interpretation) RON and JW. So glad I still go to games and maybe I should move to Germany though I get to a game there once a season now. Love the BW set up with happy fans, trophies, top coaches and real World Cup winners! & good ticket prices for the real fans. Arsenal look on shaky moral ground and are now shameful in their behaviour not helped bu a coach who does accounts better than he does football. Waste of a great club and No - I do not support Arsene FC ....

  22. jeff wright

    Oct 15, 2015, 17:11 #77416

    We must not forget though the valiant efforts made to clean up the game by Monsieur Platini's Fair Play Rules .This sorted out City and Chelsea big-time.They are now posting profits instead of losses. It's amazing what hiring a decent accountant can do ! No surprise however that Wenger and the AKB bought into Platini' smoke-screen that was really all about diverting attention away from what he was doing himself financially. Old Chips was at it today at the AGM defending giving Stan another 3m for his 'advice' and pointing out that Arsene is irreplaceable and has won the FA Cup and Community Shield. As though that justifies 8m a year wages. Wenger though is happy enough and babbled on again about leaving things shipshape for his successor .No mention of 10 years of failure to compete for a league title or 20 years of failure still on-running in Europe either. 8m a year for winning FA Cups nice work that.Harry Redknapp must be thinking where did it all go wrong. Not finishing 4th regularly and winning the Champions League group money is is the answer . Good old Arsene.

  23. Ron

    Oct 15, 2015, 16:56 #77415

    JJ - You're forgetting that we live in an imaginary World now. One where an armchair TV 'fan' is considered the equal supporter to the match going fan. Im sure you've heard many TV followers speak of 'we', 'us' etc etc regarding 'their' team? Nobody challenges them, such is the power of wall to wall TV coverage. The same ones are very dismissive of the complaints of people who do actually still do a few games yet they've barely spent more than a fiver at the Club in years! No need to distinguish between 'supporter' and TV fan nowadays. Its incredible really, but that's how it is. Nearly everything about footie is 'virtual' now as you rightly say.

  24. Ron

    Oct 15, 2015, 16:44 #77414

    Tony - all this stuff re FIFA and UEFA doesn't help the continuing credibility (what's left of it) of the CL either does it. What a gross misnomer it is, the 'Champions' league? Laughable isn't it! If there's any dignity to be salvaged by the powers that be they'd at least change its stupid name.

  25. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2015, 16:41 #77413

    Good old BADDIE who if everyone followed his example there would be no one at the Emirates. Back on his virtual horse on his virtual hill giving his virtual support. I go to football games practically every week and I shall be seeing Arsenal on two or three aways this season. How many will you go to oh Irrelevant one? Cup of tea at the Emirates - call it 3 quid. Get back on your horse! Lol!

  26. Ron

    Oct 15, 2015, 16:31 #77412

    Hi Tony - i reckon they might get that draw at home that you mention v BM. They wont beat them over 2 legs as you say. To be honest ill be glad when their out of it this time. The whole CL charade is just a nuisance and a bit of a joke now. In fairness, its a joke for most Clubs now. The cartel of the 'fab four', Real, Barca et al ought to just clear off to some dried up pitch in the UAE desert some where, play each other, crow who won it and nobody would care too much i venture. I certainly wouldn't.

  27. jeff wright

    Oct 15, 2015, 15:31 #77411

    Wenger never has a squad these days to compete in both the Prem and in Europe. When he did have he still came up short in Europe due to his lack of tactical nous. The good news is though that Stan's business plan is working according to Ivan at the AMG today.That will have the AKB's cracking open the Champers to celerate.

  28. Tony Evans

    Oct 15, 2015, 15:08 #77410

    Hi Ron - As you say a really tough call for Wenger. Lose to Bayern at home and the already slim chance of qualification from the group stages will disappear completely, but he needs to keep up the momentum in the league. Whatever he does I can't see us beating Bayern (a draw is no good to us) and if he throws the Watford game by playing a below strength team it will be par for the course . Hope you're right though in that our bit part players can nick a 1-0 at Vicarage Road.

  29. Alsace

    Oct 15, 2015, 14:48 #77409

    I note with our season ticket goody boxes this year is a very nice book about how wonderful the team of 2004 was and how wonderful AW is. Curiously though, some truth seeps round the edges with one player attributing our failure to establish semi permanent success between 98 and 04 to Wenger's reluctance to strengthen every season. The book also points out Wenger's many genuine positives, so it's not entirely propaganda. I think that JJ is entitled to his vitriol, especially about price. If AKB's want a rational debate from us, then a position somewhere south of the sun shining out of AW's fundament is required. Apropos German opposition, they are usually well organised and their fans always appear equally well regimented and drilled in their support. The benefits and dangers of such characteristics are set out in Jerome K Jerome's sequel to "Three men in a boat", "Three men on a bummel" of 1884.

  30. Ron

    Oct 15, 2015, 14:29 #77407

    Tont - tend to agree with you. Tough call for Wenger in fairness. If he puts it all in v Watford, wins and then loses badly to BM, its looks bad to the sponsors. They ll try to straddle the middle ground and scratch a win with a few squad players in v Watford and lose honourably to BM with a full team. Wenger has put weak teams out pre CL games for years. He wont change will he.The wheels come off the wagon some times, but he often gets away with it.A 1-0 win at Watfords on the cards im guessing.

  31. Tony Evans

    Oct 15, 2015, 14:02 #77405

    It will be interesting to see if Wenger rests players against Watford because of Bayern on the Tuesday (my bet is he will) in his hopeless pursuit of CL glory.

  32. Badarse

    Oct 15, 2015, 13:48 #77404

    Just wanted to mention a scene in The Martian. Mat Damon, a recognised Arsenal fan has to grow something in his own ****-he naturally chooses spuds!

  33. Badarse

    Oct 15, 2015, 13:26 #77403

    Thanks Robert, a good read once more. At the Koln game at Highbury, we were the better side and should have gone through. jj why so down on Arsenal-the poison just leaks out, doesn't it? Seems a bit eerie to be so obsessed and absorbed with that amount of vitriol and negativity, directed at an inanimate football club, and people you don't know. Sir, you are a popinjj, (sic-a parrot).

  34. jjetplane

    Oct 15, 2015, 12:27 #77402

    on topic here with a proposed protest being organised at the Emirates by BM fans next week because of the inexcusably high ticket prices. I guess that's the Arsene way and not the Arsenal way. fantastic stats on this subject of what it costs to follow your team online at the BBC. One i noticed is the dearest ST at Citeh is a 100 quid cheaper than Arsenal's cheapest. Rip-off Arsenal and not a good thing to upset BM and if they knock up a cricket score then the state of Arsenal financially may at least come to the fore. At present only the 2 or three AkBs on here are happy with it but then most of them don't go anyway. Too funny! Newsflash Jack will be back in a month .....

  35. jeff wright

    Oct 15, 2015, 11:34 #77399

    I met Peter Simpson once in a pub in Potters Bar back in the 70s he was with Peter Storey and Alan Ball they came there to appear at the opening of a Betting Shop owned by some old time AFC player whose name escapes me now , footballers used to do things like that to make extra-cash back then. Simpson ,nick-named 'Stanley' due to his alleged similarity in appearance to the Laurel and Hardy one, seemed a nice enough guy .I heard that he ended up working in a Lemonade factory when his career in football ended .Storey ended up in jail at one time .I used to go in his pub in Islington sometimes he was a compulsive gambler and that probably resulted in his downfall. Of course back then the players did not make the millions that even the most mediocre ones do now days . You won't see ex-footballers working in factories now when they retire or running pubs either.

  36. Wear Your Colours

    Oct 15, 2015, 11:09 #77398

    Loved seeing big Willie thump that one home from close-range in the 79/80 clip. Also, nice to see Highbury again with the terraces at the Clock-End and North-Bank.