European Resurrection?

Online Ed: Arsenal defeat Bayern Munich



European Resurrection?


Doctor, the patient is showing signs of life… After an abysmal start to Arsenal’s European campaign, the team demonstrated that, on any given day, they are capable of playing football that can beat any other side, no matter their reputation. And this, looking at their position in football’s rich list, is how it should be. Arsenal are, after all, in the top seven clubs in the game worldwide. It was reassuring to see what they are capable of and if they continue to perform this well, in spite of the Olympiacos win in Zagreb, they might yet manage to get out of their Champions League group.

A win was vital to keep their campaign alive, the combination of results required if the Gunners only gleaned a point a very long shot. And yet, the team played with an element of maturity, not going gung ho for the win and taking unnecessary risks. The stats indicate that Bayern had more attempts on goal, although it felt like a fairly even game until Giroud entered the fray for Walcott.

What struck me was that neither side played with the attacking intensity of Bayern’s previous two visits, both of which were great games of football for the neutral (albeit the first exhibition stuff by the Germans under Jupp Heynkes). This was because both sides demonstrated more caution and often cancelled one another out, wary of the threat of the opposition attacks. Arsenal worked hard to negate Bayern, and on the rare occasions they did have clear cut chances, they either missed the target or Petr Cech demonstrated the difference a top class keeper can make.

The home side’s own creative play saw excellent chances for a number of the forwards, more often than not Walcott, but their finishing lacked precision. Credit to Walcott for getting into positions to score, but before the opening goal, one pondered the decision to rely on what the club already had last summer in terms of a centre forward. Having said that, Robert Lewandowski failed to find the net last night, so it might be premature to call time on optimism about Walcott’s likelihood of developing into the prolific hitman he believes he can be. Doubts understandably remain, and the remainder of the season will give us the answer. His ability to fall for the Bayern offside trap was frustrating.

It required the entrance of Giroud to shake things up, and although one can wonder how much he knew about the opening goal, he was in the right spot to take advantage of Manuel Neuer’s uncharacteristic blunder. On the subject of goalkeepers, interesting to see that David Ospina has a timely injury. On the treatment table front, the loss of Aaron Ramsey to what looked like a pulled hamstring will presumably give Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain the opportunity to get a run in the side, unless the manager decides to play both Giroud and Walcott in the starting eleven. Assuming the Ox gets more game time, those who cannot see the wisdom of playing Ramsey wide right will see if Arsenal look like a more balanced side with the greater natural width provided by the Englishman. There is a thought that Ramsey is better at the defensive side of the game, and this is the reason he has previously got the nod, even though he seems more suited to a central role. Who knows how long the number 16 will be out, but it would inevitably prove a handicap if he misses a substantial part of the season.

Ultimately, given that Mesut Ozil’s goal was the last kick of the game, the difference between the two sides was the performances of the two keepers at key moments. That is not to deride Arsenal’s overall performance, as given the quality of the Bayern team, simply to match them for 70 odd minutes was a triumph in itself. The three points though, were vital, and mixing things up by bringing on Giroud tipped the balance. He looked a far more mature player in this company in terms of his all round game, and it is perhaps significant that he has outscored Walcott this season in spite of all the hype around the number 14.

So a night to enjoy and a memorable victory. A shame we could not have enjoyed such a match when the club faced Bayern during the knockout stage first legs in the previous two visits, but as a platform for the remainder of the European campaign it will certainly engender belief in the players. Such wins should build confidence and propel the side to greater things. That would require greater consistency in performances, and a run of matches without defeat. No question the team have it in them to do that, but ability and application are two different things.

Many, myself included, do not believe the club can win another Premier League title or the Champions League until there is a change of manager. I hope we are wrong. Last night’s performance might provide a reason to believe.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.

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126
comments

  1. Nick

    Oct 25, 2015, 15:05 #77911

    Badarse I neither require nor need your approval for my posts mate, as i said there is nothing malicious towards anyone merely gentle mickey taking, where I think it appropriate, my own take on the others posters moniker takes nothing away from the point i was making unless of course a person is so politically correct that they shy away from any kind of humour, if the poster in question is offended by my changing his pen name then let him say so, you never know i might even apologise, unlikely but i might, i cannot see the need however , have a good day and lets hope we can continue our winning run at Hillsborough in midweek .

  2. Badarse

    Oct 24, 2015, 16:01 #77864

    It was just a disc problem Nick, and that's not a record. Mickey-taking is fine, I do it all the time-on here and off. It's the other side of the line that matters. If you begin with a dig then it is a game of spades-sounds like a TV show-and you can't make your point very well. By the way I broke a bone in my right foot playing football years ago, someone came down on it with a heavy stomp, didn't know at the time, some while later I noticed the deformity and it had already mended. It was a case of 'Heal thyself foot!' It did, and it got up and walked-perhaps there is something in mbg and his messi-ah!

  3. Nick

    Oct 24, 2015, 13:39 #77860

    Badarse, its hardly my fault if someone leads with their chin as Gooncloyingboil does with his his monicker, I am a urine extractor by nature I cant help myself, as for respect that has to be earned and I've yet to see a post from the fellow in question that has warranted such, besides its hardly malicious. Yes you may well have been near me that day in October way back in antiquity, I was standing on one leg most of the time , leaning on my mate for support, somehow the pain was forgotten when the goals went in if only briefly, sorry to hear of your back problem, its no joke I know from personal experience, hears hoping for another good win against the toffees today and then more division and angst afterwards on here as we discuss whether too laud or criticise the manager for his part in it .

  4. Badarse

    Oct 24, 2015, 11:22 #77858

    By the way Nick, as a separate post I wanted to draw your attention to another matter. You have the temerity to insult a poster by purposely misspelling his monicker in a denigrating fashion, whilst incorporating the word 'respect' in capital letters in the same post. You are forgiven as you, like me, are an old wrinkly and are still learning-but it doesn't do your case any favours. I have just read your post on the other article in the '70-'71 season I perhaps stood next to you on the North Bank, (I stood directly behind the goal about 20-30 yards back). On the 3rd Oct Henry Newton had come as a Forest player and we walloped them 4-0, two weeks later-having been transferred from Forest to Everton he returned...and we walloped them 4-0, what an example of deja vu? By the way I too have a long term injury complaint due to an unhealthy involvement with Arsenal-I stamped my foot down on the terracing once in frustration-'69 League Cup Final-and it gave me a disc problem for life.

  5. Badarse

    Oct 24, 2015, 11:06 #77857

    A well put together thesis Nick, but it is just that. People 'bow' down to GG as a means of trying to denigrate AW's achievements. GG was regaled and is an important part of the fabric which is Arsenal, there is no denying that, and it is right to celebrate his managerial role-he was a great favourite of mine, both as player and manager-that in itself is unique. However those who promote his time and use it as a stick to beat AW with are arguably no more lovers of him than a Sour might be. They would use Sam Allardyce's record if it could be used to wound AW-oh, they do. goonercolesyboy is nothing but loyal and protective towards Arsenal, as I am, our styles differ but the message is generally the same. GG stands tall, and so does AW.

  6. Nick

    Oct 24, 2015, 10:37 #77855

    Gooncloyingboil, there is no " obsession" with George Graham, most were simply pointing out that his legacy is one which should be remembered and remembered properly, I'm not going to list his achievements again real gooners do not need reminding of them, it is not a case of " bowing down to him " its about giving him despite his flaws the RESPECT he deserves and his rightful spot amongst the GREAT Arsenal managers, let us also not forget that without the foundations laid by George, Wenger would most likely not have as successful as early as he was . Its also about reminding those gooners who have only ever known Wenger as our manager that there was an Arsenal BEFORE him .

  7. mbg

    Oct 23, 2015, 14:20 #77830

    Ron, nice one, it never takes very much.

  8. mbg

    Oct 23, 2015, 14:10 #77829

    Badarse, is it in English ?

  9. Ron

    Oct 23, 2015, 12:38 #77823

    Hi Baddie - Yes.true re 1958 WC when he was a kid. Im just referring to his Club footie not occurring in Europe. It seems (and im no expert on the Brazilian game) that he scored barrow loads for Santos v pretty ordinary opposition in Brazil. I think the true greats have needed to do it in Europe really. Its just a personal view. Pele was a fantastic player. Im just offering up the view that maybe, a career in Europe wouldn't have been so prolific for him. He and his Brazilian buddies didnt cope at all well with the heavy physical treatment handed out in 1966. I saw his Brazil team v Hungary at Goodison in 66. Another trek up there in my Uncs s sidecar! Happy days. Used to love doing that. Do sidecars still exist? Not seen one for years. Cant even recall if Pele played? He must have done?

  10. Badarse

    Oct 23, 2015, 12:23 #77822

    Hello again gentlemen, thank you 24601, a surprising post and so I showed my wife. She nodded approvingly so am in her good books. Augers well for later? Ha ha. Such a valid point you made regarding the support acts of teammates. Always been intrigued by fate and circumstance. Often talk of sliding door moments, and push the point that it is happening at every second, not in monumental situations as the film denoted or as many may imagine, but in tiny judgements which are ignored, overlooked, or appear just plain insignificant. You catch or miss the bus, you remain for a second cuppa at a pal's, you stop for a second when shopping, to look for the shopping list. It changes everything-that's physics gents, another strand of mathematical truth. Eastham we have covered, Geordie-always a hero, and Geoff Strong prolific scorer and great foil for them both, as well as Joe. What is happening? Common sense has broken out all over the Online Gooner. Keep it up please gents. @Ron, different time and era for Pele, so comparisons are difficult. He did come to Europe though in a way, in '58 and won the World Cup for Brazil! I remember listening to the Final as a ten years old, down in the square-a bigger boy had a transistor radio. I would have to wait for about five years before I got my first one. Still didn't need one-still don't. I preferred laying on the floor in the front room on the rug, (over lino, which was quite chilly), listening to 'The Archie Andrews Show',(what a sales technique Peter Brough had, he got a show on the wireless as a ventriloquist, and the dummy was the principal act on the show-never saw his lips move, ha ha). Dan Dare, go away!

  11. Ron

    Oct 23, 2015, 11:58 #77820

    He surely would nt have been Westie. All great players. Perhaps in our lifetimes, there might have been 2 maybe 3 players tops who we could say would have been brilliant no matter who they played with. For me, id go with Messi and Maradona only. I dont even think Pele would have done what he did without those wonderful players from 62 to 70 alongside of him and great as he was, he never came to Europe did he. He was like a footballing Elvis wasnt he! Was Pele really as good as his myth?

  12. Westlower

    Oct 23, 2015, 11:47 #77819

    @Ron, Would Joe have been the same player without support from Eastham, Armstrong & Strong? Would love to see him in today's team with Ozil carrying out the Eastham role.

  13. Ron

    Oct 23, 2015, 11:32 #77816

    Lovely post Baddie. Yes, Joe left us 12 yrs ago as of 2 weeks back. R.I.P JHB. We loved you fella!

  14. Badarse

    Oct 23, 2015, 11:13 #77814

    Ha ha, wonderful post and a fitting tribute to the Birthday Boy. Yes 24601, it needed to be said and we said it-guess with some it just needs repeating, so my little Bash Street kids, be well prepared for more reminders. Ron, you know I loved Joe, styled my hair on his, used his name once to pick up and chat to a young girl. I was 15, summer of '63, I was on fire, king of the world. Had just seen The Beatles live and saw an uninterrupted path ahead to greater glories. Then the clock ticked on...It seemed quite a cheeky but natural thing to say, 'Joe Baker', when asked my name. I played in his position, and scored flicked headers, dribbled into the box, shooting with left and right, ate, drank and slept as Joe. A hero. You recall when he whacked Yeats? I was there beside the tunnel as the pair trooped off. Yeats was about 5 inches taller, but after the punch was five feet shorter as he looked up at Joe. Yet you may also remember I had other heroes, Jack Kelsey the first, Joe next, then Frank who reigns supreme still. How can you ever settle on one at Arsenal when there are so many choices and influences. Loved Willow, Charlie, Rocky, Liam, Freddie, Paddy, Keown, Adams, Titi and Bobby Pires-Bergy anyone? Fab, Jens, the Little Mozart...unending supply of candidates. It makes me smile when I watch Footie at the Bridge of Sighs, and see Osgood Legend. Very good player but is that it? So much class yet all second class down that neck of the woods.

  15. Ron

    Oct 23, 2015, 10:51 #77811

    Westie - Joe Baker would have done all of that and more. 100 goals in 156 games, but then what did Joseph do for us? Joseph could even walk on water and i would have rode a 1000 miles on my push bike for one of Joe's goals. There's far too much irrational bias on this site!!

  16. Westlower

    Oct 23, 2015, 10:43 #77809

    @Badarse, It's all very fine and dandy you saying good things about Wenger, but what's he ever done for us? He may have been French Manager of the Year, J League Manager of the Year, Officer of the British Empire, Onze d'Or Coach of the Yeas 4 times, PL Manager of the Year 3 times, LMA Manager of the Year 3 times, IFFHS World Coach of the Decade 2001-10, BBC Sports Personality of the Year Coach Award twice, Freedom of Islington, FWA Tribute Award, PL Manager of the Month 14 times, but what's he ever done for us? He may have won Ligue 1 & Coupe de France, Emperor'sCup, J-League Super Cup but what's he done for us? He may have won the PL 3 times, FA Cup 6 times, FA Community Shield 6 times, but what's he ever done for us? He may have reached the final of the ECL & qualified for the ECL every season he's been Arsenal manager, but what's he done for us. He may have overseen the Stadium move & new training facilities but what's he done for us? He may have helped the development and or lengthened the career of certain players, from World Player of the year George Weah, World Cup winner Lilian Thuram, the old men of AFC Adams, Bould, Keown, Parlour, Dixon &, Winterburn, brought in overseas players whose careers had stagnated, Henry, Vieira, Overmars, Bergkamp, Pires, Petit, Lehmann, developed new blood in Lauren, Ljungberg, Toure, Cole, Fabregas, RVP, Ramsey, Theo, Ox, Koscielny, right through to the latest off the production line in Bellerin, but what's he ever done for us? He kept us in the PL elite when having to sell his players to repay our debt, but what's he ever done for us? Anyone could have done a better job, even Piers Morgan reckons he would have, but what has Piers ever done for us?

  17. Ron

    Oct 23, 2015, 10:10 #77807

    Hi Baddie - 'greatest player'? Everybody knows that mate. It was Joe Baker. I thought that you knew too. I am surprised at you. I shall have report this to Westie!

  18. Badarse

    Oct 23, 2015, 9:22 #77805

    Correct Bard and leaving aside the humour I have just posted on the following article about reductionism. It is apt here too, as the NHS is just a money-draining monolith for next to useless sick people-many are no doubt malingerers and perhaps even foreigners so it just takes money from the well deserving, capitalistic minded wealthy. Or then again it may just be the single, greatest, scheme ever introduced anywhere in the history of world governance. Arsene Wenger was the single greatest manager ever, and we were fortunate to have him knock on our door at AFC; England, and English football have gone in a new and better direction because of the introduction of his vision of the game. I see it in junior level football with kids trying to elevate themselves, showing their skill and it has permeated through every level of the game. When I was a kid I was taught to run, tackle, run, shoot, run some more, jump, tackle then run even more. Never was I given licence to develop any skills or artistry-that just bubbled to the surface in a natural way. How I wished I'd been shown and encouraged to become more of an artist-my grandsons are nowadays. Just evolution? Yep, did Arsene Wenger play a part in that? Absolutely. Mathematics is the bible to me. Anything can be proved or disproved by using averages, statistics, trends figures and angles-they just help to give a pattern, and some are majestically wonderful patterns. In truth it is a little like making a stab at who is the best player ever. Many candidates, differing eras, with different careers-agreement will never be absolute. Now back to your crypt.

  19. Bard

    Oct 23, 2015, 8:44 #77804

    I want to nail the facts of the matter right now and put an end to all this griping about Wenger and where he stands in the pantheon of great managers. Collate all the matches played under his tenure deduct all the ones he has lost or drawn and you are left with a 100% record. No manager in the history of the game has a record to match that. Or if that isnt good enough, taking all the Euro matches he has overseen since last week, he is unbeaten against any of the top sides. I think that just about lays to rest all the stats posted on here.

  20. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 21:37 #77802

    Some good posts today and this evening gentlemen. It's quite nice when we can disagree, have a tease and still chuckle to ourselves. By Jiminy Ron, it's cricket! Hiccup always does it for me, such a funny chap. Sours just lost a big game tonight, and don't quote me but I think they have a team in their group called 'carrier bag'-worth 5p of anyone's money. On that note goodnight gentlefolk, red and white dreams-as I might say to my grandsons.

  21. Th14afc

    Oct 22, 2015, 20:46 #77801

    I was euphoric after the win against Bayern and then maybe 15mins later it really started grating me as to why wenger didn't play Cech in the other 2 games,....historic win for the gunners but too late in my opinion...now onto Saturdays massive game against Everton,come on the gunners

  22. Ron

    Oct 22, 2015, 20:00 #77800

    Irritating isnt he, Hoddle. Perhaps cos hes spud riddled, but i find him nauseous. Yr right though lads, he s badly out of condition now. Fat from neck to waistline and grwing breasts too. He looks a mess doesn't he and some body should really take him to one side and tell him to cut that ridiculous hair firstly and then teach him some basic english. Its always 'them' players, 'them' passes and 'them' defenders etc etc. Not being crule but hes been on TV for yrs and shd have tidied up such basic vocabulary by now. He was a good Eng Coach though and left in his hands the so called golden generation wouldnt have gone to seed in my book. He was unfairly treated over his views. His views too have a basis that many support, though his were on the zany part of the spectrum admittedly. Deserving of the sack? Yes, in a totalitarian, non pluralist society. No, not in a supposed mature free society. Not for me. Glenn just failed to express his in correct context. I think his lack of intellect bit him on the bum a bit as he ventured down that path clumsily. A word in his ear and an clear and heartfelt apology would have been enough in my view to keep his job. Hes been sidelined by football and people in it ever since as have people like Tony Admas and for what?

  23. Ron

    Oct 22, 2015, 19:45 #77799

    Ooh Baddie, Baddie , Baddie we need to take you aside and gradually introduce you to cricket, esp Test Cricket the Worlds finest game which appallingly and alarmingly is under threat. Skill, nerve, guts, expression, flair, style technique, real Captaincy, cerebral dexterity, the understanding of conditions, weathers atmosphere, mental strength, dignity, class. Need i go on. All of this wrapped up and played out at beautiful venues like Lords, like New Road Worcester, like Taunton and cauldrons like Edgbaston et all, many more Baddie too. And finally, some of the nicest people you could ever meet at those venues, enjoying good food, wine and good beer in yr seats mate. Dont get me started about playing the game ....... dreamland ha ha. PS yes, of course the Gunners have entertained and on many memorable occasions too, no doubt about that Baddie. We ve just lost the balance between pragmatism and entertainment, that's all as i see it mate. COYG though.

  24. mbg

    Oct 22, 2015, 19:38 #77798

    Ron, ah yes the same old Arsenal always cheating one, they were at it home and away then we'd join in with same old Arsenal always winning, really pissing them off especially when we were, those were the days.

  25. mbg

    Oct 22, 2015, 19:19 #77797

    Baddie, nice one, jealousy in them days too, I remember defending Arsenal and wenger (believe it or not)in a packed room at a function where the compere was telling anti Arsenal, boring Arsenal jokes, to the cheers of a load of other gooners scattered around the room they started on him too, in fairness to him it was only a bit of fun and part of the act and he could have picked any team, he just didn't realise where he was, needless to say he stopped, but it just goes to show how seriously some of us took it and thought of our team and manager then.

  26. goonercolesyboy

    Oct 22, 2015, 18:40 #77794

    Yes Hoddle is very gnome like and as a former sour then perfect for Muguiresbridge's garden. He also has immaculate hair and keeps himself well groomed so another plus for the cosmetic desires of the Northern Irish non supporter.

  27. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 17:44 #77792

    Glenda insisted that Koscielny was brave for Giroud's goal, because he went in anticipating a collision-I thought so too. The lad gets much undeserved criticism on here, so do I, so it's good for him to get some praise. Anyone think that Glenda is beginning to look a lot like one of mbg's gnomes?

  28. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 17:33 #77791

    It's that bloody Boots counter again, goonercolesyboy. The point you make is so obvious, how many want to make a case, then do a backward somersault when the criteria doesn't fit. Acrobats, one and all. I go along with that simple statement. George was a fantastic footballer, an artist, gifted. He proved he was special as a manader too. Yet he was human and slipped, both in his management strategy on, and off the pitch. We all are prey to changing circumstances and adaptations to the situations presented. Personally I don't have to make many important decisions on a daily basis, PL managers do. Errors in judgement are part and parcel of the game, however some decisions are not notably wrong, but a negative outcome is invariably seized upon by those eager to seek and discover failings.

  29. goonercolesyboy

    Oct 22, 2015, 17:11 #77788

    So why the continued obsession by some on here with George Graham? He was very good but is not the manager anymore so the comparison bandwagon means nothing.in the current climes. Yet some want to bow down to him and then accuse some on here of bowing down to the current manager. Curious. Maybe the cosmetics were better in those days?

  30. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 16:53 #77787

    A fine distinction Ron, well played, but although I too get that entertainment buzz from theatre and opera, plus good telly and films-not to forget musical concerts, I also like a smidgen in my football. I've been spoilt because for the last twenty years-on and off-I feel I've had it by the ladle at the Arsenal. Last Tuesday was a big bowlful too, though sadly, for them not me, others miss it-like jeff. It's fine because I can't get a handle on cricket and I know you and westlower have more than a penchant for the game. We se different things, differing buttons are pressed and basically are just different, that's all.

  31. Ron

    Oct 22, 2015, 16:42 #77785

    True Baddie - the context was different though. The home fans just didnt like being beaten up every week by Pete, Eddie, Johnny Rob and Frankie did they. Nothing quite like seeing the home support slink off chuntering amongst themselves and thoroughly disgruntled after a 0 - 1 mugging at their own cabbage patches. Nectar. Visual delight. They can keep their tippy tappy and their 'entertainment'. Ive always used the Theatre and the Opera for the latter. Oh for the days!

  32. Ron

    Oct 22, 2015, 16:25 #77784

    MBG - Ooh, ive always been a 'same old Arsenal, always cheating' man myself. Ive often joined in with the home support on away days out of sheer pride. Gets a few quizzical looks, till the others join in! Its great. Cant beat an away day win lose or draw!!

  33. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 16:25 #77783

    Actually mbg we were known as boring 20 years before GG's teams-when he actually played. I remember defending Arsenal in a heated discussion that all we could do was give the ball to Geordie and he would put it on the heads of any one of possibly three men, and that was it. Funny old game, isn't messiah, sorry, I mean saint.

  34. mbg

    Oct 22, 2015, 16:08 #77781

    jw, a couple of great posts right on the button as usual, and not a word of gobbledegook to be seen.

  35. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 16:05 #77780

    Johan Cruyff just been diagnosed with lung cancer.

  36. mbg

    Oct 22, 2015, 15:53 #77779

    Nick, good post, George will always be remembered and it's sad that there's fans today who probably don't even know who he is, or those before him(and wouldn't want to) such is their infatuation and devotion to the over the hill manager we still have. The boring tag ( i loved it )was all just jealousy because the opposition fans knew what was coming they knew how good our defence were, they knew if they went behind that was it, the chances of coming back were slim. It was proved on many an occasion too when early in wengers reign at Highbury we were playing great proper power football with the proper players with the likes of TA, PV, EP, RP, etc, and winning all over the place with it, and they were still chanting boring boring Arsenal, why were they doing that? Jealousy, because they knew just like in Georges day it was anything but, when was the last time the opposition fans chanted that in Jealousy of our play and knew if they went behind that was basically it? a long long time ago, if and when they do chant it now (that's if we aren't chanting it ourselves) it's because it is boring.

  37. Bard

    Oct 22, 2015, 15:33 #77776

    Another long term injury to Rambo. 3 down and counting. Such bad luck with injuries this last 10 years or so, or is it ?

  38. jeff wright

    Oct 22, 2015, 14:00 #77771

    You're right Ron we must give Arsene credit for those Emirate Cup wins who needs the European Cup ! Even the old Charity Shield now a 'community' shield is classified as being a trophy .They have no shame these business plan men at the club do they.

  39. Ron

    Oct 22, 2015, 13:48 #77770

    Hey Jeff - the Weng has bagged 2 Emirates Cups you know! Surely, theyre european trophies albeit with home advantage? The Wengs a Euro big hitter so lets not forget his finest Emirates Cup hours. GG - eat yr heart out, no Emirates Cups for you!

  40. jeff wright

    Oct 22, 2015, 13:37 #77769

    Players such as Cech saying what transpired regarding the tactical approach adopted against BM are not rumours Badrarse. As regards my views that Wenger got things wrong in the first two CL games they are facts because the results prove it. I can't recall Graham splitting the fan base in the way that Wenger has done so despite his acrimonious departure I still liked his short tenure better than Wenger'increasingly acrimonious one. The Bayern sort of wins are more about face saving for Arsene and helping to perpetrate his illusion of competing at top level for trophies rather than anything else. No top two finishes for 10 years in the Prem and 20 years of failure in Europe, still on going, says so.Let's hope that Arsene gets it right against Everton if not the the 3 games played in a week excuse will get wheeled out again - there are some things that never change.

  41. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 12:54 #77766

    Thanks for the response jeff. Agreed with the main part of your reply but couldn't with the suggestion that the 'thinking' is flawed. I don't see it that way, you do, which are fair views, but it is an imponderable we are discussing here, and therefore there isn't a conclusion. It is at this juncture you wander off into the garden-don't go near the bottom, too many hares there. Ideology is thrown in, isn't every managers' approach ideological? I would have thought so. Then you decide to toss in some rumours which doesn't strengthen the argument, I am afraid. Finally, still in the garden you want to talk about Pep's flower arranging, which really suggests you are in the 'decking' camp.

  42. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 12:34 #77765

    Not sure you actually get sermons from a humanist Bard, but guess anything beyond a clipped, 'Arsene out!', might stupefy some. We are running a programme for WOBs with special needs, but hurry, nearly all the places are taken. You just need to bring your own mat to sit on and occupy your own space. The one with, 'capitalists are money grubbers, except when I profit by their actions', are still freely available down the market. You get a free tube of Signal if you sign before the end of the month.

  43. jeff wright

    Oct 22, 2015, 12:33 #77764

    It looks to me Badarse as though we have more chance of winning the League Cup ,another one that has eluded Arsene, than we do winning the European one .Of course prestige and damage limitation also play a part in these things.It was for those reasons that Arsene put out a strong side at the spuds. We might not have won with a weaker one.He can get away though with losing away to Wednesday in the League Cup. So if we do end up in the Ropey Thursday night cup will Arsene go for it or taking account of weekend league games that are more important financially play second string sides. We know the answer to that it's a no brainier getting into next seasons Champions League will be the priority.It's this thinking that has got Wenger into the mess he is in now in the current Champions League . Those weekend league games following on the Zagreb and Olympiacos games took his eye off the ball so to speak. The problem with Wenger is that he is trying to run everything at the club and that is private life is in a mess, so a fair bit of pressure on him and it is showing. It's looking more and more as each day goes since the win over Pep's pansies and bits and pieces of info get leaked that player power prevailed on Tuesday night over Arsene's 'ideology' regarding tactics - with Cech saying the players decided to adopt his old club Chelsea's approach to defending,sacre bleu ! Poor old Arsene has had to accept HIS players using MOURINHO tactics! Actually I did note on TV Arsene getting very angry during the first 15 minutes of the game the other night uncharacteristically getting up from his chair to rant on the touch line at our players ,by his gestures it appeared to me that he was urging them to go forward .It will be interesting to see how things pan out in Bavaria tactically.

  44. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 11:54 #77763

    Morning jeff, well you are in the minority in preferring the GG era, as now the world is the audience, and has been since he joined. However being a minority neither makes you right or wrong, it's just your personal POV. I admired much about the Stroller, both his playing style and his management, though as stated he tapered off-people sometimes do-are you tapering off too? The second string? Yes a squad needs game time and a manager judges weaker opposition as he sees it to allow for that-wouldn't you? Sorry am asking too many questions and you may be a little sleepy. What is the deal with the futility thing? Whoops another question. Every team enters the cup completion they are allowed to. The winning is a desire, sometimes unrealistic, sometimes not. What is the difficulty in grasping that and the criticism surrounding the issue. If it is a basic, 'We have money: we should spend and buy better quality: we should get a new manager who might meet my demands; we have to win or I am not playing', then it isn't a concept worth embracing, is it? Oh sod it, another question. Anyway, why not hope for better, but if we go into the Europa and actually win it what is wrong with that? Bugger, another question. Apart from sardines on toast and shrimp paste sandwiches, what else is it that impassions you? Oh I give up, too many questions even for me-you are such an enigma jeff. That's code for 'puzzling'. Anyway am sure you will join with me in wishing Arsene Wenger a happy birthday-'Don't push the candles in there!'

  45. Bard

    Oct 22, 2015, 11:51 #77761

    Baddie I have applied for leave of absence so I can find the time to read ypur posts or are they sermons ?

  46. jeff wright

    Oct 22, 2015, 11:32 #77760

    Personally I found the GG era more interesting than Wenger's ( YAWN) over long tenure. Regarding trophies won in Europe,yes lee KFC it's a fact that GG won one, the Cup Winners Cup and Arsene has not won any as in NO TROPHIES WON .Simple to understand this ,so why are you struggling to grasp it . Anyway he is now just 16-1 with the bookies to win a European trophy .Unfortunately it's just the Ropey Cup and not the Champions one.You can get evens on Arsene ending up in the Thursday night Ropey . Or better odds of 7/4 that Arsene somehow manages to get out of the group into the first KO round of the Champions League.It looks like we will have to beat Bayern away to have any hope of doing so. If we lose then the most points we could then win would be 9 that is if we win the other two remaining games as well . I expect the Greeks to beat a nothing to play for Zagreb at home and to have 9 points on the board with 2 left to play. Bayern will have 9 points as well if they beat us ,so both the German and Greek sides would only need 10 points to qualify from the group with us unable to match that total. So the 7/4 for us to qualify looks a little short to me . You might as well just have a punt on us beating BM the odds on that will better. If we get a draw in Germany then it could come down to the head to head results between us and the Greeks. All just one big exercise in futility anyway in reality but that won't stop Arsene from indulging in it .The second string will be out in the League Cup away to Wednesday that's for sure. Albeit we have more chance of winning the that cup than we do the European or Ropey ones.

  47. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 10:39 #77759

    I am chairman, well it's a unofficial office coz we hasn't got a chair-even if we did us men wouldn't sit down to talk-but I talks for the neighbours. We has our own gardening club, like. Another neighbour, foreign an' that, been here nigh on 20 years but still an outsider-we sees to that. Thing is he does gardens an' all that different like. He ain't got no decking, for glories sake! Every garden should have a deck, everyone knows it. But no, stubborn he is. We believes in nurture an' he thinks it's more a case of nature and some nurture thrown in. We knows we is right! Anyway he is planting all these erotic plants and says variety is the essence of beauty, we don't. These plants is frail and flimsy, can't beat a big English hedge, it's top notch, same as English Bully Beef, and as for Beef Wellington-well he won didn't he? So he puts plants around in a dainty fashion, all limp-wristed like. We just throws the bulbs in a hole, kicks earth over 'em, then stomps up and down on 'em. They either grows or don't. We is known as the Wilts Or Blooms. Well in his garden he's got no focal point to lead you. His is all windy paths, and random bushes-no surprise then that it is rumoured he is playing hanky panky with another woman. One thing I will say in his favour at the bottom of his garden he has a large area of wild rabbits living, I thinks they is hares, but anyway lots of hares down the bottom is good for me. 'Nother thing what concerns us is he has many birds visit his garden-still most is parrots. He reckons it's nice to just sit on a bench that he places around the garden and watch and appreciate the beauty and artistry of his toils-we knows you need to sit on your decking drinking cans of Fosters 'til the sun goes down, then the real beauty of the Wilko solar lights start to glow. Then the gnomes we has looks really good, it's like a Lord of the Ringo thingy, ain't it? One of the lads says he had a chat with him the other day and he just kept smirking, you know, like in a sly way. Our mate is a block paver and said to him every decent garden has a lot of the lawn covered in bricks-got one who had 'em delivered in a pile an' just left 'em in a heap, well it's a work of art he says, he's a card-especially out front. No, wouldn't have it, said people has different concepts, but we don't need to know about his family planning techniques with this young floozy. He is so arrogant, just coz he has An oK' Bee hive. Bees is damned nuisances, can't eat chocolate or cake on the decking on a hot day with 'em, so glad we ain't got none-get rid of 'em all we says. He has many visitors what visits and takes photos an' all that nonsense. They have been coming lately and don't understand that a garden is for getting out the BBQ, grilling up some good old English New Zealand lamb chops, and the wonderful chicken we gets from our mate down the lane where his garden is quite marshy, so kind of grows chickens you could say. Anyway got to go and see another neighbour as am helping him spread more manure on his garden. (Apologies to Chance the real gardener).

  48. Nick

    Oct 22, 2015, 10:16 #77758

    Westflower, George Grahams early years and up untill late 92, 93, were an exciting time for gooners, we had a plethora of talented , flair players and played attacking football, the " boring" tag which became attached later was I thought unfair on the whole, his latter years being marred by some players off field addictions and problems as well as obviously a crisis in Georges life to boot, we did still manage three trophies in that time one a win against a Parma side which was the Barcelona of their time with a depleted squad. George seemed to lose his passion for the game at that time and consequently the dressing room too, had he enjoyed the support and understanding the current incumbent has from the board could he have turned things round ? We'll never know, I felt at the time his only real error was being CAUGHT, doing what if were honest we all know every manager and his pet cat were doing at that time and feathering their own nests, he became a scapegoat for and a timely warning to the rest, he remains in my eyes a GREAT Arsenal manager, he brought us success, he ended Liverpool's domination of English football and would have but for the behaviour of scousers in Heysel had two tilts at the European Cup when it truly was a competition for CHAMPIONS !

  49. Badarse

    Oct 22, 2015, 10:01 #77757

    Hi Mark, have no idea of the content of the post that was deleted. I never said the chap was a JW, but signalled traits. He posts many AFC related views which I am in accord with. Anyway all water under the bridge as we say when we Play Pooh sticks. There is no argument to counter irrationality. Trust me buddy, no one is damned, the good, the bad, the ugly, or the WOBs. No heaven, therefore no hell. There is a place called Hull which is borderline-only kidding my Hull buddies-so the lady in question is all clear, though paragons should be torn down, cast asunder, and trampled underfoot, ha ha. Nice exchanges, I like them. Incidentally as a mathematical/science bloke that would be a good direction for the youngster. Maths are solving the mysteries of the cosmos, and science just leaves me in awe and speechless, (Bard might say, 'Give the lad more and shut him up!'

  50. Westlower

    Oct 22, 2015, 9:33 #77756

    @Selective Statto, GG's teams played some of the best football I've ever seen until he changed his philosophy from attacking to defensive football in season 92/93. The whole team scored for fun until then. AFC scored 40 goals in 42 games that season, Wrighty being top scorer with 15. Alan Smith won the Golden Boot in both our Championship years under GG & the whole team contributed with goals. From 92/93 onwards our league positions were 10th, 4th, 12th. We had become the Ian Wright show, being totally reliant on Wrighty for the goals. It was exciting watching Wrighty strut his stuff but we had 'lost' the team & never challenged for the title again under GG. You are right to point out our recent goal drought but the difference is that teams came to the Emirates parking the bus, whereas GG adopted the same methods, even the home games, in his final years at AFC. It was sad to witness GG losing the flair that made him stand out from the rest in his early years as Arsenal manager.

  51. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 22, 2015, 7:07 #77755

    Badarse - your interesting theory is disputed by Jamie. If you are mad enough to come on here around 7am there is often an interesting sermon which is then rapidly deleted. The poor guy really needs to logon on to Salvationistsrus.org and blabber on there. Funny thing was you got me thinking as recently wife's cousin who is a paragon of virtue was recently told by a friend that she was damned! Put her in a right huff. So maybe that individual was also a JW. Anyway Jamerson thinks JW's are heretics hence my little note thanking him for clarifying the situation. Mad! You will be hanging around this site.

  52. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 22, 2015, 6:55 #77754

    Jamerson / Jamie / Pete / Jackie 🙈🙉🙊 / whoever / whatever I'm glad we got that straight

  53. DW Thomas

    Oct 22, 2015, 1:14 #77753

    Caught the game and had to say I enjoyed the win, especially the second goal. The first was pure luck, best keeper in the world flailed at a ghost ball. Still, we have had great wins before when nothing is on the line. We never truly compete for the CL but oh well. Hoping Jack can take Ramsey's spot and play with Ozil and Coq. He and Rambo never seemed to click. Ramsey works as hard as anyone, but his finishing at key moments is terrible. Similar with Wally. Ozil did play well, worked hard and his goal was terrific. Yet, despite the good feelings of beating a fantastic team like Bayern, Joe Groundhog waits in the shadows, ready to derail our season.

  54. mbg

    Oct 22, 2015, 0:19 #77752

    jw, and that's the way it shall remain for the remainder of TOF's reign (Thankfully getting shorter by the day) and we ALL know it, even the most ardent wenger devotees know it deep down, but keep hoping and praying for miracles, but others have known it for years, and it will be/is the same with the prem no matter where we're sitting now, because we've ALL been here before and we know how it will all unfold it's been there for ALL to see over the years and nothings going to change now, and a good result against better teams than ourselves now and again doesn't or isn't going to change anything either(no matter how some wengerites and AKB's always think it will) a lot of fans have opened their eyes to it and have realised it a long time ago (and more are as every week goes by)and know and accept nothings going to change now as long as this old fraud of a manager remains because he simply isn't up to the job, he hasn't got it in him, and we ALL know it.

  55. Cyril

    Oct 21, 2015, 23:13 #77751

    Stevogooner: I understand your passion, but asking us to eff off down the lane is too much man! For a start, for me it's a 41 bus to Turnpike Lane. I need to have a walk up by Wood Green past the town hall and then whack a right into White hart lane. It's no good, you walk for about a mile and a half past all these industrial estates and council haasing and then you end up near Tottenham somewhere. Nah, fcuk it I will give that a miss!

  56. lee afc

    Oct 21, 2015, 22:44 #77750

    Trophies won ?......??

  57. Badarse

    Oct 21, 2015, 22:38 #77749

    Dudley: I'm a bit confused Pete.-Peter: That is not an unusual state in your case Dud, you are such an odious little man.-D: Cheers Pete. See, fing is, I fought it was a bloody good game at the Arsenal last night, but it turns out it wasn't.-P: What makes you say that Dud, you are such a cretin?-D: Yeah, fanks Pete. Well some are saying it was a borefest, an' all that.-P: Dudley my man, it was as clear as the spot on my nose it was a borefest, us from the Lane know that without having ever seeing the match.-D: Cor, that's clever, innit pete? How d'ya do that?-P: By being a Sour; I am a renowned Sour and we don't have to watch a game at that place to know it's a borefest.-D: But Pete, isn't a borefest where you eat a lot of pork? I never saw any of that going on. Just lots of excellent football and two cracking goals.-P: Dud, they would be crackling goals; you are just very stupid and extremely dull? A game at the home of the Arsenal must be a borefest, all Sours have to believe that or at midnight we'd turn into pumpkins.-D: Are you telling porkies Pete?-P; Oink! Oink! @HowardL, only just but then that's kismet. Goal line technology, it seems to penalise or reward. Olympiacos and it hurt, last night was a healing in a sublime way.

  58. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2015, 21:43 #77748

    European trophies won: GG. 1. WENGER. 0.

  59. Selective Statto

    Oct 21, 2015, 21:30 #77747

    Westlower- Arsenal under Gorgeous George 91/92- Div 1 top individual goalscorer (Wrighty), Div 1 biggest win (7-1 v Sheff Weds) and of course by some distance we scored more goals than any other team. Wonderfully entertaining stuff! By contrast, Arsenal under Wenger between 26/4/15 to 24/8/15- Failed to score in 5 out of 6 Premier League home games. Dreary by anyone's standards. See, we can all do what you do!

  60. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2015, 20:35 #77746

    I wondered when you would reappear KFC ,it's only halftime so save the celebrations for the final whistle is my advice,bang bang,

  61. Bard

    Oct 21, 2015, 20:15 #77745

    Dont posters get tired of moaning about those who are 'pleased with reservations'. Can a win only be enjoyed if there is a simultaneous orgasm by all the gooners. Personally Im more of closet enjoyer, communal exhibitions of joy leave me cold. The result doesnt mean a great deal in the scheme of things because we havent a cat in hells chance of winning the CL but it could enhance our league form. Incidentally we still need a striker, Wally's conversion rate is terrible. I could have scored the header he missed.

  62. HowardL

    Oct 21, 2015, 20:13 #77744

    Badarse - did your second kiss 'cross the line'?

  63. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2015, 20:08 #77743

    For those of you longing to return to the tactically astute GG years, how about this sequence of results in the league from Nov 21st to Feb 10th 1992/93. This is the season when we won both domestic cups. Leeds (a) Lost 0-3, Man U (h) Lost 0-1, Southampton (a) Lost 0-2, Spurs (a) Lost 0-1, Middlesboro (h) Drew 1-1, Ipswich (h) Drew 0-0, Villa (a) Lost 0-1, Sheffield U (h) Drew 1-1, Man City (a) Won 1-0, L'pool (h) Lost 0-1, Wimbledon (h) Lost 0-1. 11 games, 1 win , 3 draws, 7 defeats. Goals for 3, against 12. Dreary, pragmatic football in the extreme.

  64. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 20:04 #77742

    Not really much said all round about Cechs display, (I wonder why) maybe if he'd have been some so called top top qualitee keeper (like all the others) signed from some ligue 2 outfit or some unknown who had had such a good game we'd be hearing raving reviews all over the place from certain quarters, like what a genius he is at spotting keepers after all (i know don't laugh)and has been after him for years and just keeping his powder dry. As it was Cech, an ex chav who just happened to land on his lap due to various reasons, (otherwise it's doubtful he'd have even bought a keeper and we all know who we'd have been stuck with). Well TOF and us have got Chelski to thank for handing him to us, and thank goodness he did or it's doubtful there would have been as many wet dreams for some last night, and the same headlines this morning.

  65. lee afc

    Oct 21, 2015, 19:39 #77741

    Colt 45s and a pack of cards eh jeff. Ha ha ha. Your predictions are an eighth wonder. pppffff.

  66. Badarse

    Oct 21, 2015, 19:39 #77740

    Oh HowardL, you are amongst friends-some at least. Two goals so I kissed my wife twice last night, (have to monitor them as they still sizzle, no hang on that's my sausage), as no one else's wife was present to kiss,(only kidding my wife's kisses are better than a glass of Rioja, er, as good anyway). jj how did Cowdenbeath get on? Haven't seen anything positive from you yet about the Arsenal,, how unusual. Your prerogative of course but why the snidey anti-Arsenal approach? Don't answer that, it will be meaningless. Now take your pony tail out of your mock turtle soup.

  67. HowardL

    Oct 21, 2015, 19:25 #77739

    Is my computer playing up again? I knew it was a mistake to upgrade to Windows 10! In the game that I attended last night, Arsenal beat the best team in Europe - possibly the world - by 2 goals. Arsenal opted for a cautious approach - not surprising, given the established quality of the opposition and their previous performances at the Emirates - but showed sufficient attacking spirit and aplomb to win by 2 goals. A chap with with No 33 on his back, purchased in the transfer window, played a blinder. I suspect their manager encouraged that team attitude, demonstrating that he had learned from his previous errors. All in all it was a tremendously enjoyable night, watching the team that I had supported all my life (well, at least that part of which I am aware). Reading this report following a hard day at work, it seems surprising that so many people on a forum entitled 'Gooner' - so presumably primarily for Arsenal supporters - appear to have taken so little enjoyment from the same experience. Perhaps I am dreaming and will wake up shortly, in time for some mind-numbing rugby or that rubbish dancing programme? Is 'Corrie' on tonight?

  68. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2015, 19:18 #77738

    John,I give him credit for the win last night, but he has in the past disclaimed responsibility for the FA Cup 2005 win the City one last season and the one over Chelsea in the CS . Hardly surprising then when a change from Arsene's Kevin Keegan approach is used that some think it is down to the players having had another meeting to try and sort things out.C'est la vie!

  69. Badarse

    Oct 21, 2015, 19:15 #77737

    Leave off, am not that old Hiccup. I'm talking mid-late 50s. Not many had cars in those days around our way but my Dad had a Humber Super Snipe. It had a running board along the side, leather seats and real polished wood dashboard, a big and beautiful motor. I did have a Fiat 600 years later, which was a little bigger than a Dinky version. Dad was always grafting, everyone's Dad did in those days-and the Mums-only holidays were 'Hop picking' in Kent. Lived on the top floor-126 steps,(OD) in evidence there). Sent to shops, ran back, and up stairs and dreaded, 'Sorry Badarse I forgot, I needed some cigarettes-pop back and get me 10 Players Navy Cut.' Always shopped at the Co-Op, and got pretend money for every penny spent. All made of tin, or some alloy. We collected a bag of it, took it to the cashier and she gave some real money-much lesser amount-in return as a reward. Long before Green Shield Stamps. Careful jj, you're 'dissing' Ron too, and that's mutiny.

  70. John Gage

    Oct 21, 2015, 19:11 #77736

    My personal opinion and it has been for quite some time is that it is time for Wenger to leave regardless of the results. It isn't healthy for any club to have a manager for so long. I accept a certain amount of instability in return for youth and renewal. Having said that you can't have it both ways. You can't blame Wenger for the defeats to Crotia Zagreb and Olympiakos and then turn around and say the players were responsible for victory over Bayern Munich. Surely the buck stops with the manager as he is the one who selects and trains the players. It is his tactics and strategy. The only time when he isn't to blame is if the chairman and board interferes and stops him from performing his duties.

  71. Hiccup

    Oct 21, 2015, 18:47 #77735

    Hi baddie. I can't believe your dad didn't take you in the Capri to the shops? In this day and age, kids being asked to do such chores amounts to child cruelty!

  72. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 18:34 #77734

    Bard, there's still always one, (or maybe two) obviously new to Central command and way behind the times.

  73. jjetplane

    Oct 21, 2015, 18:17 #77733

    '.... so none have learned much from (my) posts.' Lol! Another classic from the 'socialist/watchtower worker' writer ....

  74. Badarse

    Oct 21, 2015, 18:11 #77732

    So funny Hiccup, but you are right, we have finally seen the light-someone put a 'bob' in the meter. Did you know when I was a lad we had gas light in our flat? I had to scoot to the shops to buy a little gas mantle which came in a red and white box-typically-and it was fitted with a twist motion, this made it a little difficult but then my mum found it easier if she stood still. Didn't have gas tellys in those days-still don't! And people talk of progress, eh?

  75. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 17:39 #77731

    Mark from Aylesbury, you don't have to find the lord to hear a lot of preaching just do what a lot of other have already done, join the moonies.

  76. Hiccup

    Oct 21, 2015, 17:39 #77730

    Looks like the AKB's have finally accepted the wobs have been right all along. Possession and complete passes stats are now irrelevant after wins like last night. We've been saying that all along. Parking the bus and catching them on the break also seems to be applauded now by westie? The penny's finally dropped that it's not wise to go toe to toe with superior teams. No doubt when Sunderland come to the Emirates again and adapt such tactics it will be called anti football again. The best thing about an arsenal win though, is that we're spared the usual waffle of poor refs, blaming teams that defend against us, fatigue, kick off schedules, volcanic ash and so on. Long may it continue.

  77. Nick

    Oct 21, 2015, 17:38 #77729

    Lets refute the claim that BM were off their game.last night, to listen to the commentary everything they did was world class, in my view they were excellent just denied by bad finishing and great goal keeping as it has to be said were we, we again in my view deliberately ceded possession and defended deep , our breaks were fast and at times incisive, we in the end deserved the win, its not a new thing for us to play this way , city away last term springs to mind, it is however something we should do more often.Against Everton and in Ramseys absence we could play both Giroud and Walcott, or maybe one of those two and the Ox or even depending on the dynamics of games Debuchy at full back with Bellerien on the right the boy has both the pace, skill and finish plus final ball to make him effective there as well as being able to track back, id certainly consider that as an option .

  78. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 17:28 #77728

    SKG, I agree, and it was great to have our old Arsenal back again last night, even if it was only for one game, if only these players would step up to the mark and do this more often instead of giving TOF his power back the next game when/where we return to type.

  79. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2015, 17:16 #77727

    @Ron, Glad to see you're on the ball looking ahead to the Everton game. The more direct Blues will offer a far greater threat than those tippy tappy Bavarians. Still to be beaten on the road, winning 2 & drawing 2. The sad loss of HK caused them to lose focus last week against the Mancs. Wenger will rest Alexis & maybe Ozil as both look to be in the red zone. With Ramsey already out, Ox will start, unless he's tempted to play Giroud & Theo, in which case Ox or Arteta may replace Ramsey. AFC 2/5, draw 4/1, Everton 7/1. Looks to be a nailed on 1-1 draw at 9/1.

  80. smithy

    Oct 21, 2015, 17:08 #77726

    Ref- WESTFLOWER AND BARNABY I cannot agree that debuchy is better than Bellerin, I have never seen the French lad have a good game at the back or going forward. I would sell him and have jenks and hector competing for the spot. As for serge- yep get him back and promote reine - Adelaide both look dangerous tricky players.Ox first choice though.

  81. CT Gooner

    Oct 21, 2015, 17:04 #77725

    Last night was brilliant, every player playing for the team, as if they had a plan! Reminiscent of Man City away last year. That brings me to Ozil though, ran his socks off last night, was tenacious, but why do we get that once in a blue moon? Last night he was world class, we need to see that every week... Further, is this another false dawn, twice biteen as they say....

  82. Arseneknewbest

    Oct 21, 2015, 16:48 #77724

    On the specific point about Ramsey's injury, the club needs to react by bringing Gnabry back immediately from West Brom, where, in the last few days, he's been dropped from the 1st team squad into the U21s. That little fact-let alone should make the club realise that they and he are wasting their time in Mr Poo-lis's custody the west midlands. I think we all saw enough of Gnabry during that spell the season before last to think he has real promise and that he is a credible threat on goal. Look how it worked when Francis C came back from Charlton last year. Giroud may not have known much about his goal, but the person he replaced a few minutes earlier would have been nowhere near that position for that free-kick. A series of lucky incidents and some real fighting spirit meant we beat a team we ought to be able to hold our own with. Well done lads.

  83. Finsbury Joe

    Oct 21, 2015, 16:42 #77723

    That result was clearly more luck than any pre-planned tactics. A shame it will still not be enough

  84. Tony Evans

    Oct 21, 2015, 16:37 #77722

    Taken in isolation last night was undoubtedly a fantastic result and a great all round performance; the trouble is it also serves to emphasise how bad we were in the first two CL games where arrogance from either Wenger, the players or both served to put us in the position we now find ourselves in.

  85. Bard

    Oct 21, 2015, 16:05 #77721

    Stevogooner: brilliant. Havent heard that one for a while. Which lane should one f*** off down.

  86. John

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:57 #77720

    Westie-Guardiola couldnt give two ****s that Wenger has beaten him at Barca and Bayern he just looks in his trophy cabinet and see's 2 CL's and numerous titles.Not 4th place trophies.Wenger cant compare with him.Olympiacos had played 12 games in England and lost all 12 before last month.

  87. Badarse

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:54 #77719

    Mark as I posted before finding someone as in Jamerson's case isn't recent, the chap has been in 'his' company for a while. Just to give you a heads up Jehovahs think they are the only ones who will be saved, the rest are damned. We had a Japanese chap who was paid by his father to leave Japan on the understanding he studied. He was a bright lad and gained a degree in an English University. He stayed with us-we looked out for him-for well over a year and the other reason for his father's cash was to get him away from his Jehovah mother back home. Even so he sincerely believed himself to be damned. Now Jamerson can believe what he wants, he just needs humility, especially when he posts. This business about keepers is hilarious. I think most posters would easily hold down jobs on the Sun and the other rags. If you have a squad then they must get game time, especially keepers. Ron westlower and myself were discussing issues around this recently so none have learned much from our posts. A 2nd keeper doesn't play in the reserves now, he sits on a bench, game, after game, after game. Then you suddenly need him and he has butter fingers. A manager must introduce the reserve keeper occasionally and lesser matches are a nailed on choice. If it all goes south then it is the manager's problem, his decision has backfired, but it is fraught with that likelihood-that is the job. You can gamble another way and be proved right of course...or wrong. Two differing schools of thought and practise. Trouble is that when it works out OK nobody notices, or comments. For my part I am so pleased we had a carthorse on the bench-was I calling for him a little earlier? Neigh! He offered a difference and we capitalised. Bellerin was promoted by westlower and myself way back, why we took turns in nappy changing, am so pleased for him and every Gooner that a real world class full back is coming through. £10 mill now? Double it in a couple of years. Project youth is triumphant, ha ha. Great post goonercolseyboy 82278.

  88. Nick Oakleigh

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:51 #77718

    Delighted as I am, the likelihood of Europa League fills me with dread!

  89. GoonerRon

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:47 #77717

    I dread to think how negative the comments would have been if we had have lost last night. I love the way the AMG's say some posters are getting 'carried away' - which is in AMG speak is expressing any level of positivity towards the team after a great result against a fantastic team. mbg - the fact you are criticising our manager for something he MIGHT have said post-match IF we had lost (which we didn't, by the way) is utterly ridiculous.

  90. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:46 #77716

    Stevogooner - agree all so tedious including your f"£k off down the lane , why don't you contribute something original? No thought not, nothing to add of any interest. At least you could do a **** off to Crewe Alexandria. That could add a talking point!

  91. Stevogooner

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:35 #77715

    The reports are so boring on here. Always tinged with disappointment when we win. Wenger cant win....Supporters like you will realise when he is gone just how lucky we are. f*ck off to Lane.

  92. Ron

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:34 #77714

    Good to see the blinkers are strapped on like a pair of swimming goggles Westie. You know where all this is going to end up, the same as i do. Wenger hasn't become an uber Coach off the back of one win v a BM team that wasnt fully at it last night however much you d like to think otherwise. It was another oft seen groundhog day experience albeit a nice change from the usual tedium we see at the Grove. Ill eagerly await yr post on stress and tiredness induced last night ahead of the Evtn game at the week end.

  93. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:30 #77713

    If Olympiacos beat Zagreb at home in their next game then they will on 9 points .How many points we have on board depends on the result against Bayern Anything other than a win for us if the Greeks win their game puts us right back in trouble. Robben is likely to be fit for that game and looked a big miss last night for the German side -whose over cooked careful watching paint dry possession football approach work was well sussed out by our players.Then again they have had plenty of experience trying to beat other sides by playing like that so knew all the moves needed .A big lad up front launching himself at a cross into the opposition goal area on a set-piece -job done - who needs tippy tappy 42 moves football ! Anyway it's more likely the ropey cup Thursday night for us as a result of Wenger's mismanagement - he normally only just avoids this by going out in the first KO round.We can presume though that the Capital Cup will not be a priority now . It's all looking rather familiar.

  94. Torbay gooner

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:28 #77712

    Great win, but frankly our changes of winning this competition remain the same ie exactly nil. I would rather we win our next match at Everton and try and maintain a decent title challenge for once. With our current manager in charge the Champs League is an irrelevance.

  95. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:15 #77711

    Highbury Boy, but decisions like that are to easy and simple for a tactical genius like wenger.

  96. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:07 #77710

    Last 6 results: Spurs won 2-1 (a), Leicester won 5-2 (a), Olympiacos lost 2-3 (h), Man U won 3-0 (h), Watford won 3-0 (a), Bayern Munich won 2-0 (h). Wenger is the only coach to have beaten both Barcelona & BM when coached by Pep Guardiola. We've drawn & won on our last two visits to Munich. Should we win again, we're set fair to win the group. Only 2 points of the top of the PL so it's obviously a good time to sack the manager?

  97. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 15:00 #77709

    Kenny, excellent post, as always (in some quarters anyway) little things like that are very conveniently forgotten about, never to be mentioned again, as if they never even happened, more so when a couple of our obligatory decent results come along to keep the/his followers happy and believing until of course the inevitable. TJ, one of TOF's ex nice boys not looking good last night ? we'll not be hearing much about that then.

  98. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 13:40 #77708

    Ron, our club are always needing a boost mate, and one always comes along at the right time to keep every body happy and hoping for another while, until the inevitable.

  99. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 21, 2015, 13:33 #77707

    Jackie - the reason most of Jamersons inputs are being banned is that he appears to have recently found the Lord. Overall I'm very pleased for him. Problem is this is an Arsenal site so tedious quotes from the bible are a little wearing. If you are amazed at his knowledge maybe go to bible college and you to can amaze us with some old time preaching! Yeehaw!

  100. Peter Wain

    Oct 21, 2015, 13:21 #77705

    no question excellent performance by the whole team. Everyone played their part and we deserved the victory.

  101. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 13:15 #77704

    Its a pity as Ozil was sitting wrapped in a towel in the dressing room after the match tweeting how he and Arsenal have arrived someone didn't show him the CL table.

  102. Fact is..

    Oct 21, 2015, 13:06 #77703

    we cant get above Olympiakos unless we win all our matches which is highly unlikely. it will be a more spectacular failure to qualify with some excellent matches and some absolutely abysmal performances. such a shame for the fans who dont know whether theyre coming or going. you couldnt plan your holiday around this team. you could be overwhelmed by a great performance or totally floored by a crap one. enjoyed the game. we were much smarter than we have been. love Bellerin, Walcott, Alexis, Ozil, Rams, Santi when they take the handbrake off and flow; it can be unstoppable not to mention the Ox. they owe a debt to Le Coq who covers them all. great match

  103. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 13:05 #77702

    No sign of tiredness last night it's surprising what the players can do when they want to. It was good and refreshing to see pep congratulate Arsenal and OGL in his post match, i wonder if it had been the other way round would our old fraud have been so gracious ? no doubt it would have been the usual blame game and excuses all round.

  104. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:59 #77701

    @Barnaby, I agree that Debuchy is the better defender but Bellerin is still in the early stages of his development and he'll become a top player with more experience. To have one attacking & one defending full back works well for us. Since they first teamed up Bellerin & Monreal have done incredibly well. Their first PL game was the 2-0 win at Citeh, they only lost twice in their 10 games together in the PL last season, at the Lane & Swansea. They only played together once in the CL winning 2-0 at Monaco. Unbeaten in 3 FA Cup games including the Final + Community Shield. This season the pairing have only lost once, at Mike Deans behest, at the Bridge.

  105. Wear Your Colours

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:46 #77700

    There were lots of similarities to the way we set-up against United. Despite conceding territory and possession to Munich we were very incisive when we went forward. I thought Theo led the line very well creating space for Ozil, Alexis and Ramsey to run into. Everyone was diligent in ensuring we kept our shape when we didn’t have the ball and Cech made some good saves to keep the clean sheet. It was a scruffy goal that gave us the lead but great credit to Giroud for reaching the ball and nudging it home. The atmosphere at Emirates was electric yet again. A really good night for all Gooners, I like many, I assume, was absolutely buzzing last night. Let’s hope we can get our feet back on the ground quickly and take the three-points off Everton at the week-end. COYG!

  106. Ron

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:46 #77699

    Ospina is an average Keeper but i have some sympathy with Wenger over his being picked in that game the other weeek. Hes not too bad a keeper and a 2nd keeper has to have games. The media are making a big thing of Cech not being picked. Fact is the team we re f-----g s--te from front to back, not just the keeper. What disgusts me is that we have a Coach who is so all powerful in that Club that he can sit there before the media and declare that those weaker teams were not taken 'seriously enough' and pass the blame over to his players. I know what i d have said to him after hearing him come out with that one! It demonstrates the unhealthy power that Wenger wields in that Club. Its rotten to the core. BM win euphoria or not, AFC need to be shot of him as quickly as it can occur. Moreover, the team arent getting out of that group either. They've shot their bolt due to Wengers flawed decisions and weak willed players. I dread to think what will happen in the Allianze to be honest in 2 weeks time. Good win last night but AFC certainly had the breaks. The over reactions on here to one win are some what laughable. We ve been here so often before.

  107. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:46 #77698

    I think player power is beginning to make us work as a team again, nothing to do with AW. Lets face it we had no chance of playing "tippy tappy" last night, as for long periods we could n't get the ball back. However that does n't matter a jot as long as the team stays together and puts in the work, which it did, effort, the correct playing personnel in goal and bingo, I've got my Arsenal back. Great gutsy win, one thing I noticed was that Neuer's great safe did affect Walcott, someone tell him that missing goals is what all strikers do, the key is to convert the next chance.

  108. DJ

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:45 #77697

    Magnificent victory and with a little more bravery in the transfer window we could be on the verge on a glorious season. Westlower:’ If Ospina hadn't dropped the ball against Olympiacos no one would have mentioned playing a different GK.’ Surely the point is he DID drop the ball?

  109. Barnaby

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:32 #77696

    Alot of people r loving bellerin at the mo, people r saying he's good at defending, I think he's great at attacking but he's nowhere near as good at defending as monreal or debuchy. He needs to get better at that. I always think he gets nutmegged to easy, monreal is my fav defender

  110. Highbury Boy

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:28 #77695

    @Westlower. You don't rest 6 players in your first CL match because you have an eye on a PL match at the weekend. I and many others criticized the selection of Ospina BEORE the 2 matches. It makes no sense to struggle for years without a proper gk and when finally we get one courtesy of Abramovitch's generosity we don't play him in the most important games. Yes Sanchez looked tired in the second half last night but his skill and tireless running does seem to inspire the others and I would have been as annoyed as Sanchez if he had been rested as he is our only other truly world class player. He can with Cech be rested in other matches. If Wenger had not played weakened teams in the first 2 games of the CL there may well have been opportunities to rest players in the last 2 games once qualification had been secured.

  111. goonercolesyboy

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:18 #77694

    Ah, the normal responses after a great win, Wenger must Go, your user name is enough to tell us your agenda. In fact maybe this site should be renamed Wenger Out online. It would suit some but the majority still like the management in place. Good old Jamerson, happy with his lot which can't be said for most on here.

  112. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:12 #77693

    If Wenger is such a tactical genius how is it that he has gone 20 years without winning anything in Europe>? He got lucky last night and every now and then he wins a game like last night's one then we get the great speeeeerit that the players have bull from him.This great speeeerit though is often missing in other games such as Monaco and Zagreb,Olymoiacos ,etc, being recent examples.I thought the German's were rather boring tbh and our late goals produced some drama into what was in reality a bore-fest .It's easy to see why viewing figures have dipped for these group stage games. Olympiacos are the real heroes of the group we should not be in the position of underdogs anyway ,although it is no surprise to see Wenger getting credit for solving a problem that he created for himself.Albeit there is still more work ahead for him to do with last night's result only being a stay of execution.

  113. mbg

    Oct 21, 2015, 12:03 #77692

    Good win and well played the players, but i'm glad you put a question mark after resurrection Kev because we've won nothing yet, we've all been here before, although as good a victory as it was (thanks to cech)and going by some AKB's you'd think we had. Lets not get carried away, like I said we've all been here before (although that won't stop some) lets wait and see if we can even get out of the group before the pants soiling begins (although obviously some haven't waited)and thanks to an old incompetent manager that doesn't look likely.

  114. Clockend Mike

    Oct 21, 2015, 11:50 #77691

    My nine year old son went to school a very happy boy after his class mates said we would lose. It took me back to when I was his age - to the 1980 away tie in Juventus when all said we would lose. Great feeling for him - the "backs up against the wall" feeling that us Arsenal supporters like! For me it felt that the pressure was off after the first two games - no one expected us to get anything from a Bayern team with its quality, especially after recent results against them. To progress we need to win one of our two remaining away games (assuming we win our last game at home) and it could come down to our visit to Olympiakos on 9th and needing to win by a two goal plus margin. Why do it the easy way?

  115. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2015, 11:49 #77690

    @Highbury Boy, If ever there was a glaring example of a playing needing a rest it is Alexis. He was running on empty last night. I praised his fortitude after the Watford game after travelling 17,500 miles in the previous week. Comes a time when you HAVE to rest them. Maureen always plays his strongest team but this has come back to bite him because the squad players get so little game time. You have to be brave enough to change personnel because when they are needed they'll just be too far off the pace. There is no longer a reserves league like there used to be in the old days. If he never plays Ospina where are we going to be if Cech suffers a bad injury? If Ospina hadn't dropped the ball against Olympiacos no one would have mentioned playing a different GK. The guy never let us down last season.

  116. Mark from Aylesbury

    Oct 21, 2015, 11:32 #77689

    A right conundrum capable of beating the best interplayed with often failed tactics and choices I.e Olympiacos. A game of pontoon among the support with one half wanting to stick (genuinely terrified or despairing of him leaving) or a sizeable element wanting to twist and see him off. Rumour mill has it that Pepe is off next year. How does that play out if Wenger was going in 2017 anyway. Seems a relatively simple matter of offering Wenger a board position. Big big choices coming up!

  117. Highbury Boy

    Oct 21, 2015, 11:22 #77688

    A great game. A great atmosphere helped by the fantastic Bayern fans who were jumping up and down the whole evening. Driving home from the match I heard many fans and commentators ringing up up to praise Wenger BUT if anything the performance of the players last night proves how bad a manager he is. For the first time since Seaman (signed by GG) we have a world class gk who kept us in the game ;yet he didn't play in the first 2 matches because of some sort of promise to Ospina. What happens when Ospina recovers from his injury? Last night he played his first team. Against Dinamo he rested 6 players including key players such as Bellerin ,Monreal and Coquelin. Against Olympiacos he rested 4 players including Ramsey and Monreal. Cech,Monreal and Mertesacker started for the first time last night. Now the players admit that perhaps they didn't take the other teams in the Group seriously enough. Whose fault is that and how much of a boost does it give to the opposition when they see you have rested some of your best players?

  118. Rob

    Oct 21, 2015, 11:17 #77687

    Good to see Arsenal get the tactics right and not go all out gung-ho in attack for once! Encouraging performance.

  119. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2015, 11:08 #77686

    It we ever needed proof that Bellerin is made of the right stuff, his winning of the ball and resultant run forward to lay on Ozil's goal was it. He had previously endured a roasting by Costa yet still produced the best forward surge of the whole game in the final minute. Monreal was impressive, having his best game yet. Arsenal mimicked what most teams do to us in the PL, defend deep in numbers and play on the counter attack. The extreme strengths of Theo (pace) & Giroud (physicality) will continue to reap dividends when one or other is brought of the bench. Should we win in Bavaria + winning our final 2 games we'll top Group F, current odds of 9/1. To win the CL, prices vary from 20/1 to 33/1. To qualify from Group F is 7/4.

  120. TJ

    Oct 21, 2015, 11:02 #77685

    It was a great performance last night, even though we were lucky not to concede a penalty and Cech was pivotal in keeping a clean sheet. Wenger has had the option for all these years to sit back and counter bigger teams but he so idiotically chose to go gung ho, resulting in the awful losses to Chelsea, Liverpool and City etc. Of course, it also helps to have a proper GK and DM if you are going to defend, and this time last year we had Szczesny (not looking great at Roma last night, btw) and Flamini/Arteta. Again, a situation that could have been rectified long before with a better transfer policy.

  121. Ron

    Oct 21, 2015, 10:52 #77684

    The Club needed a nice boost Kev. It was another game that showed Walcott for what he is. Inadequate as a CF. A good striker with those chances would have scored 2. Great as the Neuer save was. The header from Walcott was pitiful. Giroud makes a great difference every time. Hes limited but a far better bet than ever Walcott will be at CF. Very enjoyable win though.

  122. goonercolesyboy

    Oct 21, 2015, 10:25 #77683

    Ah Kevin, you just couldn't write a piece without the last paragraph could you, symptomatic of this forum?! Malaysian gunner, do you know something about Giroud that we don't? Suspension already served me old China. Great win, defended properly, attacked with pace, patience and purpose. Tactically spot on all night. Cech was terrific and gives the defence such confidence. Midfield worked hard tracking runs and ball movement all over the pitch. Great energy from the front players too, heart in mouth moments from Alexis in our half but his work rate and class is of the highest level. Where are the Ozil knockers now? He is a fantastic footballer. Next game is pivotal. Draw the minimum yet much depends on the Olympiacos/Zagreb result as much as ours. Cosmetics 2 Munich 0.

  123. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2015, 10:24 #77682

    For once, Arsenal supporters stayed to the end - blowing out their cheeks when they realised they really had beaten Bayern Munich. Arsenal need more from their fans, to stick with the team and make sure this stadium is full at the final whistle in every game. When they have this kind of support, Arsenal can surely go on to achieve anything. Comments from Neil Ashton, Daily Mail.

  124. Amos

    Oct 21, 2015, 10:12 #77681

    Many, myself included, do not believe the club can win another Premier League title or the Champions League until there is a change of manager. I hope we are wrong. We might not win either for a while even with a change of manager. We may conceivably even move further away from doing so with a change of manager. But you're being too coy Kevin. You really hope that you're right don't you! Just enjoy the ride. Whoever's driving we'll get there eventually.

  125. Malaysian gunner

    Oct 21, 2015, 10:06 #77680

    Sadly Giroud will be absent for the return leg.You can bet your house BM will be fired up to exact revenge.Besides Sanchez and Walcott we have no other strikers unless of course you call up Sanogo and Campbell. Hopefully Wenger will play anti soccer in the 2nd match. That's what red faced used to do against Arsenal in the epl and cl and he got away as did Chelsea .Drogba and the ugly bull dog scored tons of goals when given the time and space to shoot and score. If WEnger opys for the open game,rest assured Muller and his team mates will rip the defence to pieces with the Polish guy scoring apotential hattrick. A point will do .

  126. GoonerRon

    Oct 21, 2015, 9:57 #77679

    Fabulous result and a fabulous performance which absolutely demonstrates the tactical evolution of this team. Tactically we got it spot on - letting them have the ball in relatively benign areas but press the ball when it was right to. The relentless high press, like we did against Man U, would have been suicide as Bayern are just too good on the ball. Great atmosphere too. Momentum is slowly starting to build.