Arsenal Mullered in Munich

Online Ed: Gunners taken apart by Bayern



Arsenal Mullered in Munich


In the greater scheme of things, last night’s result is probably insignificant. Always the toughest fixture in the group, the law of averages suggested Arsenal would lose, after a win and a draw in their previous two visits. Defeats away to Zagreb and at home to Olympiacos were the results that effectively put paid to the club’s future participation in the Champions League after the winter break. Of course they could still qualify. Olympiacos losing in Germany is no great leap of faith. The Gunners should beat Zagreb at home. A 2-0 or 3-1 away win in Athens? However, many will feel that, given the chances of actually progressing much further in the competition are questionable even if Arsenal did make the last 16, does it really matter? Maybe only if one is obsessed by the UEFA co-efficient system that might strip the Premier League of one of its four CL berths. How ironic if Arsenal turned out to be the club that suffered at the end of next season, were Italy to usurp England in the rankings.

Bellerin and Koscielny were ruled out through injury (or at least the latter was not risked). Still, Debuchy is an experienced international, and Gabriel is highly rated on his contributions so far. It should have been a strong enough backline to at least get out of the Allianz arena with some dignity. However, the defending was often of a very low standard, not assisted by poor work closing down in front of them. In short, mistakes that Arsene Wenger’s team frequently get away with in domestic matches were punished mercilessly in Munich. It was a salient lesson that the team is not as good as some might believe. Arsenal set up to soak up pressure and if something came on the counter attack, all well and good. That didn’t last long because they simply switched off. Alacantra was given time and space to deliver a cross that beat the offside trap, and the gameplan had to change.

It meant more risks, more chances, more Bayern goals.

I am sure many Gooners have already developed a loathing for the blue cup kit that has seen exposure in Sheffield and Munich. It felt like a bad omen when the team took the pitch in it. Ozil’s rightly disallowed goal apart (and after years of doing nothing, with great timing, finally the official on the goal-line wakes up to show exactly what he is there for), Arsenal were on the rack for most of the first half. The third goal – Cazorla dribbling just outside his own penalty area and being robbed, as seems to happen quite often – was especially disappointing. Bayern were taking the p*** and one feared an avalanche in the second half.

Credit due to the visitors for at least making a fist of the second 45 minutes, and giving the travelling support something to cheer. It took a fourth Bayern goal to spur them into life. However, the final result was never in doubt. If Arsenal had actually threatened to make up the deficit, Bayern would have simply gone into another gear. For the most part, the German side treated the second half as a training ground match.

In a sense, the idea of Arsenal coming back and putting on a show when all was already lost seemed a bit symbolic of certain past Premier League campaigns, and indeed some Round of 16 second legs after they have been effectively eliminated in the first.

Granted, Bayern do seem to hammer everyone at home this season. Arsenal are not alone in suffering a lesson there. What lessons can we take from this match? Just that Bayern are far more likely to win this competition than Arsene Wenger’s side and that the win in the home match against Guardiola’s team was a remarkable result. It will probably prove meaningless, but then, most of the club’s European campaigns these days are only really about income. In nine seasons since reaching the 2006 final, they have made the semi final stage once and the quarter final stage twice. There have been a few footballing lessons handed out to Arsenal along the way (although rarely learned from). Last night was another.

As long as there is no hangover on Sunday, the defeat will be forgotten quickly enough. Arsenal have more pressing priorities this season.

To end, an email from an occasional email correspondent, Phil Alexander, who to my mind has an insightful take on things. He summarized his thoughts on last night as follows…

1. When you go out wearing a kit like that you have no chance.

2. No excuses since it was a first choice Arsenal XI apart from Campbell, and Gabriel who is cover no 1 for two positions and so has to be considered as a first choice player (and Debuchy was first choice until very recently).

3. They gave up as soon as the first goal went in and then was just shooting practice for Bayern.

4. The problem was primarily mental last night.

5. Goal 1: Cazorla skipping merrily to Thiago did not close down (STILL our players do not stop crosses at source) and Gabriel played all onside. Same for goal 3, Alaba needs to be closed down faster.

6. Look at how Thiago anticipated when we had the ball continuously throughout the game – their work without the ball is not mainly about physical effort but more about reading the game to get the ball back ASAP with often 3-4 players around our one.

7. Fringe players are (a) not good enough yet (hence fringe) and (b) not playing regularly so not up to speed. Gabriel and Campbell the obvious examples. Both really suffered.

8. Does AW really believe that Sanchez, Ozil and Cazorla can play every game ‘til the end of the season without getting injured?

9. Giroud may not be Messi/CR/Suarez but is under-rated and very valuable to the team when on form and is normally receiving the ball with two defenders on him. One of the few bright spots. And Sanchez will always give everything and be a danger.

10. Watching the players “warm up” and “stretch” is like looking at Sunday league players. English football is still very backward in so many ways, example: in Italy virtually no teams do static stretching anymore, all dynamic, yet Arsenal carry on like it is 1996. Getting two muscle injuries like Walcott/Ox the other night is inexcusable. It’s not about the medical team specifically, it is the whole preparation. Something is wrong, it may be as simple as more hydration is needed, who knows (more likely to be a combination of factors), but something is definitely wrong (stating the obvious I know). Read Verheijen’s quotes here in case you missed it. He is spot on – managers have formulas. They can either adapt them (like Demento (that’s Alex Ferguson by the way – Ed) did) or they stick with them and time moves on around them.

I am now on Twitter@KevinWhitcher01.


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102
comments

  1. wenger must stay

    Nov 06, 2015, 22:08 #78824

    Jeff right and maguiresbridge goon equals the same poster or is it imposter.

  2. mbg

    Nov 06, 2015, 21:27 #78822

    Coldsoreboy, and it has really got to you.

  3. mbg

    Nov 06, 2015, 21:16 #78820

    Badarse, and there are no AKB's but there ARE WOB's yeah that would be about right, that's exactly what I expected from you. And it doesn't mean that at all? Well it Obviously hit home with you.

  4. Bard

    Nov 06, 2015, 19:59 #78817

    mbg; I realised you had a thick skin mate a long while ago mate. Most on this site stick to straight forward abuse, we manage to keep the more unpleasant stuff off site. I havent had Colseyboysetc down as someone who holds these views, it seems more to do with the fact that you really get under his skin for reasons he has elaborated. I'm all for a ruck on site but it has to have parameters, otherwise we end up like the chavs. Meanwhile tensions run high in goonerland. Sunday is massive will we rise from the ashes or will it be another collapse ? Home advantage puts me more in the optimistic camp but who knows if we defend like we did against Bayern anything can happen.

  5. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 06, 2015, 19:37 #78815

    This is where you struggle Muguiresbridge. I support the team and don't dislike the manager, both counts that don't adhere to you. Your constant regurgitation of posts are dragged out in mind numbingly boring fashion. You cannot answer a question about training methods, as you are clueless to do so, yet continually question the methods. You talk about the players appearance as if it has anything to do with anything. Your infatuation with the church shows up your Irish heritage. Basically you hate everything about Arsenal football club and as Badarse alludes, you are more a sp**s supporter.

  6. Badarse

    Nov 06, 2015, 17:47 #78808

    No mbg my religious friend, it doesn't mean that at all. There are no AKBs, that is just a derogatory acronym used by the insurrectionist mentalities of a minority group that you happen to belong to. In whining about change many differing factions adhere to the 'Wenger out' mentality, for varying reasons. However there are WOBs as they all identify with that basic movement-change the manager. I'm sorry you are an acronym, but it is of your choosing. However, with racists, homophobes, misogynists and chauvinists, it displays a level of naivety of the individual, or immaturity if you like. It means these people-and I know you are in there along with them-are unable to assess or judge human nature, and therefore to clearly make the divisions of normal and abnormal behavioural patterns. Anyone can insult, just as anybody can misunderstand the obvious.

  7. mbg

    Nov 06, 2015, 17:04 #78804

    Bard, forgot to add i'm glad the Ed didn't or doesn't, it just reminds and shows us all what the AKB's are really like when forced into a corner over their messiah, or when others don't agree with then and worship their messiah like they do.

  8. mbg

    Nov 06, 2015, 16:54 #78802

    Bard, water of a ducks back mate.

  9. Badarse

    Nov 06, 2015, 15:35 #78793

    I liked that Bard.

  10. Bard

    Nov 06, 2015, 14:40 #78788

    Colseyboysetc; Steady on mate. Your post aimed at mbg was rascist in the extreme. Am very surprised the Ed didnt delete it. Your obsession with mbg is a touch worrying. I think the psychological expression for it is projective identification. When we unload abuse on someone else obsessively it usually means they represent bits of ourselves that we dont like. No charge for that bit of enlightenment.

  11. mbg

    Nov 06, 2015, 13:23 #78783

    Coldsore, it's good to see you've been doing your research, Northern Irish it must have took you a lot of time finding that on a map. But obviously that post went right over your head too, or around it or through it, obviously there's a big enough gap.

  12. Badarse

    Nov 06, 2015, 11:46 #78771

    Shylock Homeless was a troubled soul, which isn't as nice as a Dover sole, which in turn isn't as nice as a Lemon sole, though if you don't turn it, 'it's up for grabs'. He was faced with a dilemma-he'd promised to ring her but having forgotten to call, she was now standing there in front of him! He would entitle this case, 'The New Arsenal Stadium Mystery', though some more worthy called it the 'Hollow-ay Bowl Missusy', but that was ignored as it made no sense-as was often true, and a bit misogynistic. He had been charged with determining the injury crisis, though he denied the charges, 'It isn't my fault-that's Harry Belafonte, Watchman.' His sidekick always caught Dr. Wassup, just below the knee, low down joints had always been his undoing, but together they were determined to get to the bottom of this mystery, which was very hairy indeed. 'Could it be the Boots counter that is to blame, Flintlock?' This was not a cosmetic mystery, or a cosmic one either-though now we are certain Mars lost it's atmosphere and water due to AW-only kidding, it was due to it's core freezing, this is why it's dangerous to have frozen toffee apples nearby-but Y O Y was it happening to these Diddy men, life was so unfair, so it could be said that a loaf was so unfair too, if it was a brown one, these grams and ounces could confuse a chap, like miles and kilograms in the USA. 'So it is due to what Watts? You are the doctor, that's kitchen pantry, my dear Winston.' It was easier to blame it on someone with broad off the shoulders. 'It is all AW's fault!', offered Gridlock. 'Y O Y, is he always to blame for everything, Gnomes?', the doctor quizzed. Fetlock grinned from ear to here-and I am a long way away from his ear, 'It's the Arsenal Way, and that's even mentally, Wurstson.'

  13. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 06, 2015, 8:38 #78757

    You clueless northern Irish twat Muguiresbridge they use miles in America. Get back to your cosmetics counter or your nth bottle of beer and do some research.

  14. John Gage

    Nov 06, 2015, 4:03 #78751

    I honestly viewed this match and Arsenal's entire involvement in the Champions League as irrelevant. Even if Arsenal had managed to qualify from this group I see absolutely no evidence that Arsenal is equipped from a players or managerial point of view to beat teams like Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid or PSG in the latter stages of the competition. It would be more of the same as previous seasons.

  15. Wrinkly Voyeur

    Nov 06, 2015, 2:09 #78749

    well....errrr....overall Badarse & Amos....errrr....I belieeeeeeeeeeeeve we know things about arsene's bowels that the WOBs don't know. I belieeeeeeeeve as well...errr... if you leetle beet smell one of arsene's top top quality bowel movements you will show great spiwit & mental strengz & quality.

  16. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 23:40 #78745

    ArseneKnewBest, and there's plenty of wounds for him to lick but still he come back for more, he always needs something or someone to attach himself to (there's not many) he can't stand on his own feet, so the first contributor that makes an appearance who he agrees with (usually an AKB luvvie) they become intellectual buddies and head for the nearest phone box.

  17. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 23:14 #78744

    Bard, the nappie is never off he just keeps changing the same one around.

  18. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 23:03 #78743

    Bard, nice one, light years alright, but remember Ivan and the lads use Kilometres in America that might explain the distance. Exeter, just behind ? Ivan must have been following the Bayern coach in his car one night.

  19. Badarse

    Nov 05, 2015, 22:51 #78741

    Pleased for you AKBest. Oh, and logical thoughts are the path to reality. You should explore that pathway, it may surprise you, but try not to stray off it, you may tread on the pansies.

  20. Ron

    Nov 05, 2015, 22:36 #78739

    My good lady had a beautiful off one shoulder dress on last Sat night. Far more compelling viewing than these 'shoulders' we re speak of here guys!Anyway, i digress. The point re Mr Garde, though made by FJ (who by the way is always a good tease and makes me smile anyway)is an interesting one. Seems a good lad and im actually going to Villa Park for one of my freebies in a box there on the week end. Hope he does well. Ive heard from insider at Villa that he comes across as a very sound chap indeed. Arsenal to beat the Totts 2-1.

  21. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 22:26 #78738

    Just to help you out a little more Arseneknewbest you have paraphrased incorrectly. As you're no doubt eagre for clarification what I said was "Further progress is dependent more on commercial growth and this to a significant extent relies on greater onfield success." So rather than success solely dependent on making more money, making more money is dependent on success. I hope that's of some help to you.

  22. Finsbury Woe

    Nov 05, 2015, 22:02 #78736

    I only ever come on here when Arsenal lose which is why you haven't heard from me for quite a while.

  23. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 05, 2015, 21:59 #78735

    Amos - far from seeking "idle entertainment", your posts indicate a self-regarding 'football intellectual' with a pathological over-identification with Arsene Wenger (accompanied by a delusion you somehow have a stake in AFC corporate strategy and finances), seeking little ego boosts via attempted one-upmanship. Your own particular brand of misery.

  24. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 05, 2015, 21:41 #78734

    O baddie, arbiter and oracle of all things Arsenal, and still point in a turning world. It was only a matter of time before you stopped licking your wounds. If you read back, Amos asserted (and I paraphrase so that you can understand the ridiculousness of his utterings) that Arsenal would only gain real success if they made more money. Does that pass muster in your world of badarsian logic? I challenged that - so what's the problem? I'd already formed an opinion that you and he were close when he sycophantically raved on about your "brilliantly sardonic pokes" (or some such tosh) - yuck. Are you possibly conjoint twins suffering from chronic wenger apologo-jism. Maybe Amos needs to jettison the "online-groaner" and become Kroenke's pet financial analyst with you alongside as an 'umble courtier?

  25. Badarse

    Nov 05, 2015, 21:04 #78733

    AKBest, why do you do that? This man is an intellectual, and I for one am fascinated with his knowledge-don't you ever learn anything from anyone? You try to invoke a 'class war', with no class at all. I am embarrassed for you once more-all this name calling, it's playground stuff. Just because he is able to tie you and the quality street gang up easily is no reason to get bitchy. Still you appeal to Bard, but then even a lemon has appeal to Bard.

  26. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:58 #78732

    Baddie is that an argument or an excretion.Best put the nappies back on. Beware Amos looking for sanctuary

  27. Badarse

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:49 #78731

    'Off the shoulder', is the way mbg wears this season's Sour away shirt, 'on me head', is where jeff casually places his hankie, 'up me nose' is where jj stuffs it when jeff has finished with it. At a family 'do' my aunty looked into the middle distance, shifted the weight onto her stump, hitched up two or three of her bellies, spread her arms out wide, flapped a bit, and said to the me in front of the assembled group of family members,'Badarse, it's all relative.' I was forced to agree, though no one seems to know who uncle Benny belongs to.

  28. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:37 #78730

    Amos - It's of no help whatsoever, you patronising herbert. You sound like one of those robotic schoolboys that Barclays employ to give people loan advice if they need to buy a new shed. But to be as fair to you as possible, I'd struggle to argue any coherent points from a set of co-ordinates that are so far up the club's financial fundament that everything looks brown. You're evidently one of those people that thinks money is god - do you ever get a round in with your mates I wonder? So come on then Gordon Gekko, at what stage will cash surplus equal success?

  29. Finsbury Joe

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:36 #78728

    A word to the wise. You can get a glimpse of Arsenals next manager, his team are playing Man City this weekend, Wenger will have to hope his chosen one does him a favour as Wenger will see Sunday evening pointless. This new Arsenal manager will in time prove the boards ambition knows no bounds, nor does Wengers insatiable need for control at the club. Happy days ahead.

  30. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:36 #78729

    I agree that Gazidis meant we were behind the 3 clubs he named Exeter so it's good to acknowledge that is also what I said. The data I posted also confirms that. I watch plenty of games and regularly go to matches, willingly and voluntarily paid for, as I have done for many years. It's a great ride. Some triumphs some disasters some neither one nor the other. But there's always another game and another ride. Messing about wasting time on football forums is just idle entertainment - Badarse's brilliant understated sardonic pokes are always worth a read - but I won't stick around too long. Misery here doesn't really like company unless it brings more misery.

  31. GoonerRon

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:33 #78727

    So Bayern are ahead of us, be it on the shoulder or light years years ahead. Where's the surprise in that? Look, I love Arsenal as much as the next supporter but in reality we've never been as big a club as they are and have never seen the level of success domestically or European-wide that they have. They are a very well respected club who seem to do things right on and off the pitch so aspiring to be like them seems like a reasonable goal.

  32. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:23 #78726

    Great display of searing intellect their Arseneknewbest - and pretty much what 'debate' looks like at the online groaner. Matchday revenues (fleecing fans) from those willingly and voluntarily buying tickets, programmes et c., is now the smaller of the main revenue streams. Broadcasting (TV and online) and commercial (sponsorship and the like) are now greater and growing faster than matchday revenues. The business model is pretty good hence we have cash reserves of £200m (but also amounts payable in under one year are £278m)which we retain for productive spending having resisted cries to chase rainbows. Further progress is dependent more on commercial growth and this to a significant extent relies on greater onfield success. Which is why the business model shows growth of intangible assets (value of player contracts) of almost 50% in the last financial year to a level currently more than 3 times greater than the total value 5 years earlier. I hope that's of some help to you in your deliberations.

  33. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:23 #78725

    Amos, 'off the shoulder' is not a position, it's a metaphor. What Gazidis meant is we are just behind BM. If the data is telling you that's the case then you need to try watching some actual football matches. By the way, what's motivating you to spend so much of your time amongst noisy groaners when there's no debate? As a man who enjoys the ride even immediately after a 1-5, why are you wasting so much of your ride time telling other people they're wasting theirs?

  34. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 20:13 #78724

    Amos the phrase refers to approximate distance not positions. Context is everything. Wenger is off ot and the team were definitely not on it. Distance = light years in my book

  35. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 05, 2015, 19:51 #78722

    Amos - Good to see you've kept yourself busy after your stint in emmerdale farm, albeit by spouting claptrap about Arsenal's finances. So according to you, we just need a better/different business that'll fleece even more money from fans in order to bring success. What about the £200 million already sitting in the bank or the fact that your close mate Wengie is a chronic spendaphobic who knows the square root of f-all about modern football management. Deliberate provocation or post-modern irony? You need another demi-john of scrumpy and some wurzel fricassee Amos. Kiss OGL's behind for me next time you and Mr Wilkes bump into him.

  36. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 19:27 #78720

    Off or on are positions bard. There aren't degrees of off or on. We are 'off their shoulders' as opposed to 'on their shoulders'. In this context off their shoulders means we are separate or away from the clubs mentioned. You'll need to join it up with other information to judge how far away we are. I offered the playing record over the last 3 seasons against Bayern as some data you might wish to consider but in the end it's subjective. The fact is we are not at Bayern's level. You'll have to continue with the ride to find out whether we ever do reach or even surpass it. We've got to generate much more revenue to do so on a sustained basis.

  37. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 19:26 #78719

    CT Gooner, there's fans who would travel the length and breadth of the world for their messiah regardless, even crawl through mine fields for TOF. Danny, the response will/would be exactly the same such is his/their devotion to their messiah.

  38. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 05, 2015, 19:21 #78718

    Be interested to know how long this Benzema story has been kept under wraps.

  39. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 19:12 #78717

    Amos: can you clarify how far 'off the shoulder' means in terms of distance. Did he mean a country mile or maybe out of sight. I need clarification for accuracy's sake.

  40. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 19:09 #78716

    Gaz, yes how many times have we heard that from the AKB's and wengerites that it's very important and vital to qualify for the CL and stay in it, and this is the funny part, to attract the best players, LOL, and here we have some saying it might be for the best as now we can concentrate on the prem, dear dear how standards have dropped.

  41. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 18:50 #78715

    SKG, yes, and the vet would be called to put one old nag down, and we know which one.

  42. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 18:39 #78713

    jj, yes AKB central command is closed for the foreseeable future the shutters are down whether that's a lock out or lock in is anybody's guess, but expect it to reopen Sunday evening just in time for evening service where the usual couple of priests/ministers will be preaching.

  43. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 18:26 #78712

    Predictable blood letting and wrist slitting going on at the online groaner. It's easy enough to quote Gazidis correctly so why not do so? "Where we are currently is off the shoulder of the world’s top teams. I think the best teams in the world are in Europe and you think about the great names in world football like Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich - I don’t think we’re at that level yet but that’s where we’re aiming to get to." We've played Bayern 6 times over the last 3 seasons P6 W2 D1 L3. Win, lose or draw there's always another match. Not much point taking the ride if you're not willing to enjoy it.

  44. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 18:23 #78710

    Caption competition, is that the final whistle? will the old man be mad ? don't be fooking daft, MAKE UP MAKE UP.

  45. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 05, 2015, 18:08 #78708

    Not much to add to the above comments. Hate the shirt, 1-8, is the score wearing them. A series of errors against one of the top teams in world football and sure to be in the semifinals depending on the draw. I like PSG even losing to Madrid, to be potential winners and justify their financial outlay of recent years. European football is almost a given as we will beat Zagreb at home and then see what happens in Greece, therefore europa or CL in the new year. As for Sunday, I would love to bump into Finsbury dough boy and his inbreed mates. Full shin pads needed.

  46. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 17:29 #78705

    Mark, yes that will be exciting, and there's plenty of jockeys who will. jj, well said, and Bayern certainly played with the hand brake on, God help us if we'd have had the cheek, skill, or bottle to score another one or two.

  47. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 17:17 #78704

    One of the funniest sights of the night last (no not TOF sitting rubbing his hooter with his hand looking clueless) one of the Bayern players heading for our goal with the ball with clear space in front and five Arsenal players running after him, (playground stuff) two mates burst out laughing at that alone.

  48. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 17:06 #78702

    The AKB's will be glad to know their messiah had something in common with the best manager in the world after all last night, they both wore jumpers.

  49. radfordkennedy

    Nov 05, 2015, 16:55 #78701

    Finsbury Joe....be careful joe getting off a variety club of Great Britain sunshine bus in studs will be tricky,and for Gods sake don't lick the windows!....it was only a question of how many really last night,im particularly annoyed as I took 20/1 on us getting done 4-1,you just cant trust them can you....in all honesty though we can dissect it for a week but to be fair they were on a different planet,if Gazidis thinks were on the shoulder of BM then he s a bigger James Hunt than I thought he was

  50. Finsbury Joe

    Nov 05, 2015, 16:43 #78700

    I recently posted the start of next week would see Arsenal and those who run the club viewed as a laughing stock worldwide. Nothing that has or will happen this week is going to change this. Arsenal had the potential to be a major force in the game, but a weak board and incompetent manager have blown that chance forever. Those at the top will move further out of site, some teams ranked below are now poised to overtake this spineless outfit

  51. Badarse

    Nov 05, 2015, 15:55 #78697

    Danny, I never refer to them by that name, why even Frasier's apartment number freaks me as it's 1901-when they won the cup. Sours is trademarked to me, but you can use it free of charge. Losing to them will not make me change my position, will winning change your view? All a little silly, but if you want a debate on this hackneyed subject contact Mark-The Mark of Nark, as he is known in 'round table' circular circles, mustn't let this round of posts go spiralling into a double helix, it could crick your neck. Am not an AKB, though surprised you could spell it-it's that etymology again isn't it? Sticking one's head in the sand is OK, it is such a buzz when you take it out. Sometimes I bang it against the wall, because I have found it extremely rewarding when I stop. Now join mbg and myself at the Virtual Online Morris Dancing evening, I promise you can have first dance with Morris.

  52. Ron

    Nov 05, 2015, 15:49 #78696

    ooh, come on lads. Snap out of it. Cheer up! We re making money, glitzy stadium, once the roofs fixed. We take part. Its the taking part and the Corinthian spirit that counts after all. Its the 'Arsenal way' don't forget, the classy way! Im starting to subscribe to the view that winning trophies is tacky. Crude even.That kind of thing is beneath us with our 'class'. Hail our 'philosophy', love the 'beautiful game', love the ball, love the movement, love the'mental strength', love the 'stability' and 'cohesion' and 'evolution'. Most of all love Arsene and be careful 'what you all wish for'. Enjoy the ride in the meantime and don't 'stress', 'tire' and 'fatigue' yourselves unnecessarily. Safe journeys home lads and i hope none of you suffer on your more 'gruelling' journeys home, but even if that happens, just explain to her that youre tired and she have to wait until Sunday till your recovered enough to oblige her. G nite lads.

  53. Danny

    Nov 05, 2015, 15:13 #78693

    Badarse, a typical AKB response. Get your head out of the sand mate!. Coach , Manager or whatever you call him. He is fraud and keeping this great club back. should be fired. Let see what your response be , when spurs do us at home.

  54. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 14:55 #78692

    No worries Nick. Attempts at humour are the only way I can get through the mess

  55. CT Gooner

    Nov 05, 2015, 14:47 #78691

    Appalling, to think some fans spent a fortune going to support that in Munich. This squad has a great starting 11, and virtually nothing behind it. Yesterdays article was excellent imo, and so true. And to those that hail the 4th place trophy, why do we bother, the squads not good enough to mount even a half hearted challenge.

  56. Gaz

    Nov 05, 2015, 14:16 #78689

    Every year I keep hearing how vital it is to get ECL qualification yet a lot of fans are now suggesting going out of it completely rather than finishing third will help our PL chances this season!!! Crazy!!! As for last night there was no real surprise considering our last 5/6 games in the competition. After 18 years you'd think there'd be some improvement but the reality is we're getting worse. Only plus point for me was Ozil who I thought was quite superb. Criticised him previously for a lack of fight but last night he was the only one really up for it. At one point it felt like Mesut Ozil versus Bayern! Thankfully-for some-these performances are easily glossed over and thoughts quickly turn to the next game...

  57. Nick

    Nov 05, 2015, 14:10 #78688

    Apologies Bard, I'm.unusually dense today, didn't see the irony in your post, your correct as I believe I said earlier we've as much chance of winning the CL as Barnet have of winning the premier league title , its my belief we will NEVER have a real chance at it again under Wenger even if by some miracle we win the PL this term it will be in SPITE of him not because of him .

  58. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 14:10 #78687

    So another record for wenger, first time we've/he's conceded five in Europe ? well done old man, well deserved i'm sure. I bet it's one we'll not be hearing to often from his statistician luvvies. wenger out.

  59. jeff wright

    Nov 05, 2015, 14:10 #78686

    Seven Kings Gooner , you are right no one would believe it if we lost to Zagreb and Olympiacos ! Actually the German and Greek game needs keeping an eye on both sides qualify if it's a draw on 10 points and even if we win our last two games then we can only get 9 points and a Ropey Cup place. Anyway,I can't see us beating the Greeks by the 2 clear goals required even if Pep's homers beat them . Chasing the game in Athens will lead us open to counter-attacks and the home side would be certain to score at least one goal. I note that our world class CB Kos bottled out of last night's game, he could have played at a push but decided not to do so . At least we were spared the sight of him slinking off pretending to be injured. With cowards like him and the manager that we have any thoughts of winning top trophies are just wishful thinking. Where is our know all on here laugh when you're winning lee KFC today... missing of course... cluck...cluck...cluck...

  60. Badarse

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:51 #78683

    Danny, Arsene isn't a coach, he is a manager-though he does on occasions try to park the bus-me, I get a bus to the park, OK? Neither does he have an ass, but he does have a donkey if that helps. I had a boomerang but it never came back when I threw it, so I called it a stick. Words eh, what would you do without them though? Oh, like mbg you just post the same regurgitated rubbish over and over, good job!Bet you thought etymology was something to do with haute cuisine dining, didn't you?Is it true you aren't too old? I hope not because the long weekend you have planned with mbg will be more enjoyable for you both-ask him to remember to bring his Boots loyalty card with him, but never go to Oldham.

  61. In The Luton End When Caesar Scored

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:50 #78682

    @Nick T, I wouldn't worry too much about the Europa League champ - if they're in it, they'll chuck it at the first opportunity, just like the league cup these days.....as long as fourth is qualification for the champion's / runner's up / everyone else league. I can't remember which of the site contributors crunched the numbers regarding Kroenke PLC's financial requirements each season, but I seem to remember something along the lines of the club being able to miss a couple of qualifications for the more lucrative European competition, without Kroenke PLC's income being negatively affected. Heh, wouldn't that be a very weird and very real situation, punters in the future being charged more for the cheaper European competition's group matches than for the more lucrative competition? Either that or Kroenke PLC will have to set up consultancies with themselves on a monthly basis to recoup the shortfall!

  62. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:42 #78680

    The CL must go back to knockout format only - If last night's match was a horse race there would be a steward's enquiry. The trick now is losing the remaining two matches (to avoid Thursday night football) without it looking too obvious - you may get away with it when your playing Bayern but the remaining two matches are really against equivalent mid table Championship sides, just like Sheffield Wednesday really.

  63. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:36 #78679

    Arsenal coming back and putting on a show when all was lost, I like your sense of humour Kev, it was a training game for Bayern alright enjoying themselves having a laugh, men verses boys, and a real proper manager who knows what he's doing against an old past it one who hasn't a clue. Lessons be learned from it ? anything taken away from it ?from it ? not a fooking chance you can bet on it, as I've already said TOF and his mouth piece players will tell those who'll listen there has and of course the sheep will lap it up and believe them, and that will make everything alright, until the next time of course. wenger out.

  64. Tony Evans

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:21 #78678

    We gave up at 4-0 and switched to the Olympiakos game, which was then at 0-1. Of course they equalised virtually before I had had a chance to pour myself another beer, and then spoiled my night completely by getting the winner at the death. Not that I was that concerned really, afterall we are nowhere near good enough to win the CL. I just hope the Bayern result doesn't spell the start of Groundhog Season number 6 or 7 or whatever it is now: loads of injuries, a lean spell in the League and then, once out of title contention, roaring back for the coveted CL place.

  65. Danny

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:12 #78676

    19 yrs of bull**** and these AKB idiots still think the sun shines out this coaches ass! Not acceptable. When are people going to realize this guy is a fraud and we need a proper coach

  66. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:12 #78675

    Well here we are again this old fraud has embarrassed this great club of ours and it's name yet again, how many times is that now ? (that's one stat we'll not hear from the AKB statisticians) and on it goes, the good thing about it is he's embarrassing himself too, his ego would have taken a hell of a bruising last night, but not having any scruples or morals he'll bumble on to the next one. Go now old man. wenger out.

  67. ChrisNotitngham

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:08 #78674

    I thought Giroud had a stinker his goal a part. His movement was appalling, blame the service but he didn't show to receive a pass at any stage. In reality he's not a top 4/ CL striker and therein lies our problem. I bet even Andy Carrol would score plenty in this team. The team is improving but imagine what could be achieved with a top quality striker. Charlie big bananas scored a good goal and thinks his place is justified, classic for striker to do one thing right and get MOTM and defenders getting slaughtered for one mistake. C'est la vie football.

  68. Badarse

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:57 #78673

    jj, are you really so Hollow-ay, man?

  69. GoonerRon

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:57 #78672

    This habit we have of squeezing up when there is no pressure on the ball drives me nuts. JUST DROP OFF AND STAY WITH YOUR MAN. A thoroughly difficult night with very few hotspots - although Ozil continued his good form, Alexis woke from his first half slumber to look more like himself in the second half and Giroud scored again. I think Phil Alexander's comments on the it being a first team XI besides two players it's a bit harsh - Bellerin, Koscielny, Ramsay and Walcott would definitely have started if fit, and the bench would have contained another 5 of the injured players too - that's half of the match day squad missing. I still think we'll qualify.

  70. jjetplane

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:54 #78671

    The more WE hear about Benzema the more he sounds like a perfect fit for happy-go-lucky Arsenal. As AMOS says 'enjoy the ride' (matron) because there is 'no debate.' Do we assume AKB central have closed offices but may reopen Sunday evening. InDY has a pertinent piece on Cech who may already be thinking '**** this malarkey' .... Back to Bennie - if he gets out of jail he could be wearing a blue shirt in January. 'Come on you Blues' sounds a bit weird but just wait until they change the name of the club! Wenger has not quite finished 'his project' yet ... Holloway Hamsters? .....

  71. Nick T

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:49 #78670

    Its a real shame that the next 2 CL fixtures are in the order they are. If Olympiakos was next then a 2-0 win and we'd basically be through but anything less and we'd at least have the chance to throw the game against Zargreb and be done with Europe altogether ....unfortunately with Zargreb next up, in a game we will obviously try to win, there is a very real chance were gonna end up in the Europa. Some will say 'it's still a competition and one we can genuinley win so lets go for it' but I think it will have a massively detrimental effect on our league campaign and due to our squad depth the PL should be our sole focus now. Others will say it won't cos we'll put out the B string....maybe in the early rounds but does anyone honestly think if we reached the latter stages and faced sp*rs for example that we wouldnt draft in the big guns?? I do think we can win the league but it absolutely depends on 2 things, injuries and europe. In terms of europe the Europa would be disastrous for various reasons and CL (from a footballing point of view) is just wasting time - we might be amoungst europes elite financially but on the pitch the gap is considerable (have a look at Bayern's bench last night!!!). Injuries wise it doesnt look good at the moment but get players back and keep most of our first eleven on the pitch for the rest of the season and we do have a chance of lifting the PL. The crime of AWs transfer policy last summer was not that we didnt sign Benzema, Cavanni etc... it was not bolstering the squad with 'decent' whilst not necessarily 'top' quality for times such as these where its obvious that once you scratch beneath the surface there really isnt a lot there.

  72. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:45 #78669

    Nick, good post, we lack those alright and more besides, but most of all we lack a manager. TOF and his team will have taken nothing on board or learned absolutely nothing from last night just like all the others you can be sure of that although no doubt they'll say and tell those who listen and who'll believe them they have, and there's plenty of them.

  73. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:41 #78668

    Finsbury: the mind boogles at the thought of you in your kit in front of the tv. Would that be fishnets and high heels ! Dontcha love the sours

  74. Hiccup

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:32 #78667

    Caption competition: "Sh!t... Has no one recorded The Apprentice tonight?"

  75. jeff wright

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:29 #78666

    It's really just all about local pride and it being the spuds and what not that matters on Sunday. Crucial points don't come into it as regards winning the league because Wenger will mess things up anyway he always does and apart from that our squad is not strong enough compared to City's. I can see them drawing away over the next few weeks from us and the other pretenders. As regards another Wenger 4th place trophy, so he can make more dosh for Stan to hoard and only get humiliated in Europe again next season anyway , I can't really get that bothered about it tbh. Note the HIM Badarse and not US, you really just can't grasp this simple point can you because of your obsession with the old and never was anyway in Europe has been.

  76. jjetplane

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:19 #78665

    Just saw some highlights that were keen to show how the respective coaches WORk during the match so you have a sultry, bemused Wenger with hands in pockets while Guaddie boy is barking and screaming at his players irrespective of how many they have scored. That is the difference and the incredible detachment displayed by the BFg and Cech mirror Wenger's lack of communication with football's rudiments. He also mirrors a few of his disciples on here who have had very little to do with football for the past decade but will no doubt turn up here with their usual flippancy and plastic hatred for the Spuds. BM were probably only in 3rd gear even in the first half but this game was over before Arsenal had even sorted out who was sitting where on the Arsenal Jet. What a ****ing shower .....

  77. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:19 #78664

    Nick: winning the CL ? Come on mate where did you get such a ridiculous idea from. Its the money not the trophies that matters

  78. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:14 #78663

    For this useless embarrassment of a manager and his team of just as embarrassing no hopers with beards to still go through after this and the rest is/will be shameful (it just shows what a farce the CL is)they don't deserve it especially this old fraud of a manager he has no place in it whatsoever.

  79. It's Just The Same Old Show

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:07 #78662

    Wear Your Colours: That post's a wind up right?

  80. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:07 #78661

    Finsbury Joe - be much better if you all came in your pants.

  81. Ron

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:07 #78660

    Yr right Kev. It didnt matter. How totally correct though utterly regrettable and sad. A reflection on that appalling 'competition' that is the 'Champions'League and Arsenals peripheral relevance to it. Good point re Giroud though. His place shdt ever be doubted or his selection compromised in that team by the hapless Wally.

  82. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:04 #78659

    If this old French fraud had any morals, we'd have had his resignation last night, or at least this morning, but we know he hasn't an ounce of decency in him. Go now you embarrassment.

  83. Cyril

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:02 #78658

    Finsbury joe: I hope the stewards make you take them workboots off before you go in. Clean pair of socks please! It reminds me of when I was at Spurs away a few years back. As you know it's compact there and I can only describe it as ' waiting to be thrown to the lions'. Welcoming mob that lot! Anyway, we are shuffling through 'airport queue' style and the bar steward gives us the once over on the first bend. We came around the second bend and his mate's up for some more. This was the express rubdown. From the ankles up, around the cobblers and then checking out my armpits. Class these spud stewards. Anyway, we reach the final bend and the bar steward is back checking the lad behind me. Well, he's had enuff... 'How many fu****g times mate!.' Well I took the opportunity to mention, 'it's Spurs policy, he will come back around to me in a minute and give me my wallet back' ...

  84. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 05, 2015, 12:01 #78657

    Red member - we also have to negotiate the two horse race into a top 4 finish! As Amos says let's enjoy the ride!

  85. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:56 #78656

    Nick, I believe Bard was being satirical. Read some of the posts towards the bottom of the previous article, you'll see the source. This is what these people genuinely appear to think.

  86. Nick

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:38 #78654

    Bard, too much angst ? 2-8 vs manure, 3-6 vs manure blue, 1-5 vs the mickeys, 0-6 vs the chavs, 0-4 vs Milan , now 1-5 vs Bayern , do you like humiliations? Add to those the capitulations vs Newcastle, from 4-0 to 4-4 , vs. The scum 4-2 with five minutes left to 4-4, 3-0 vs Anderlecht with fifteen minutes left to 3-3, plus the coc debacle the other week, this all points to a pattern of mental fragility that stems entirely from the manager, he was once innovative , fresh and real force in the game he is now stale , intransigent and stubborn to a fault , the decision not to strengthen this summer was criminal.as was the teams lack of any real game plan last night a league one outfit would have prepared better for a game of this magnitude than we did , I like the BFG , but his lack of pace is suicidal against the real quality sides, Gabriel was poor its true but it was his first game back after a lay off and a big ask for him to be up to it , it all comes down to lack of quality investment in the team, red face would win a treble yet still reinforce his squad every summer to keep it fresh and his other players on their mettle, not so Wenger, , if he had or has any honour or real love for the club he should do what people who love something do for the good of the object of their affection and let them go preferably at the end of this season , when Pep Guardiola will likely be ready to try to conquer the premier league !

  87. John F

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:37 #78653

    Fj was that organised at school.Interesting stat I read today if an Arsenal fan bet a spud £20 In 1995 that we would finish above them then did double or quits up to 2015 he would be owed £10,485,660

  88. Moscow Gooner

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:34 #78652

    FJ - assume your guys will be wearing shell suits or the like to cover up before you get safely into the ground? Concerned about your health and well-being as always... The Met will probably ask you to leave the boots outside anyway: could get chilly?

  89. Mike Collins

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:14 #78649

    Most of the relevant stuff about this stuffing has been said and it boils down to the fact BM are miles better than us (and most other clubs) and have a good chance of winning the CL, whereas we may keep the FA Cup if we get the luck of the draw and maybe even finish runners-up in the PL, if Man Utd's revival proves short-lived. Let's be positive and acknowledge the efforts of Santi, Mesut and Olivier, while conveniently forgetting the dross served up by the out-of-form Santi, Gabriel and Per. Onwards to Sunday and those wallies from N17 (for a while longer).

  90. Chesham Gooner

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:14 #78648

    Ha Ha - Finsbury Joe is a full kit wanker!

  91. Martyn

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:06 #78647

    Just can't help feeling that Cech assumed the flag was going up for offside for the first goal and therefore made no attempt to save. I don't think it would have made much difference to the eventual result but surely he could have made some effort. Amy Lawrence made the point recently that Arsenal's fortunes this season will be defined by injuries to key squad players. When all fit, we have strength in depth but at present the tightrope is getting thinner and with the hectic winter schedule fast approaching there is that unnerving feeling that a series of dropped points are on the horizon. The only consolation is that City are prone to dropping a few points too. Three points crucial on Sunday against the spuds.

  92. GTG

    Nov 05, 2015, 10:30 #78645

    Before the game I feared that we wouldn't be able to get any respite from defending deep because there would be no out ball (walcott and Ox missing) I was actually surprised by how many decent moves we put together and again with more clinical finishing the scoreline may not have been so wide, although the same applies to Bayern. What I didn't expect was the pathetic effort levels to close down and total lack of organisation at the back..... I thought we'd been much better in that area this season but I guess its just the lack of quality in the Premier league which allows us to get away with it. I just hope the main players are given some rest now leading upto Sunday because if we lose to them its gonna hurt way more than this!

  93. Mathew

    Nov 05, 2015, 10:26 #78644

    Miracles doesn't happen often Arsene, by not strengthening the team you have done a crime and this too will be a season to forget. I wish you could take notice of their bench strength, those players are better than your first team Arsene. Club's reputation has been tarnished with your economic policies and its taking us nowhere except yours and the owners retirement plans are secured.

  94. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 10:17 #78643

    Too much angst. Last night was merely a flesh wound.If the bounce of the ball had gone our way. A few decisions here ahd there and it would have been a different result.

  95. John F

    Nov 05, 2015, 10:01 #78642

    Against the best team in Europe i felt the injuries did take away our game plan,which was to defend and break with speed Walcott,Bellerin and the Ox were vital really.Had they played BM defenders would have had to hold back a bit to contain them but without them they could flood the midfield.Having said that I still think we would have lost but by not so many.The first two games muck ups have really cost us and the question is what do we do for the next two in a competition that we haven't a hope of winning.Made we wonder about just how overhyped the prem is when you see the quality of B Munich's play.

  96. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:49 #78640

    Owen Hargreaves was that bloke who came to England to retire wasn't he. Manchester's own version of Abu Diaby. One of those "nothing" players who stroke the ball around nicely but disappear when the going gets tough. Anyway, so now what? Does OGL take the humilation of finishing last - even though this season it might be to our advantage, or do we really want to be doing the Thursday/Sunday thing? Not like we're the only English club to suffer that fate in the CL.

  97. Paulo75

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:46 #78639

    No excuses despite a raft of injuries to key personnel. A poor performance by most on the pitch. Massive game on Sunday which for me was always the priority. Really need a few players back after the International break. With only one fit striker available its just aswell Giroud is coming into good form.

  98. Nick

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:45 #78638

    Last nights game showed us two things 1) we lack quality in depth 2) tactics is not our strong suit. A sorely depleted side seemed caught between two stools and didn't know whether to attack or keep it tight, consequently we did neither and were spanked aside almost contemptuously by a superb Bayern Munich team, the blame for this lies full square with our manager, firstly for failing to bring in sufficient quality cover or competition in the summer, secondly for not hammering a tactical plan home to our team, the players for the most part looked out of their depth, Ozil for once worked hard and looked the part , Sanchez is obviously below par, Giroud worked tirelessly and did take his real chance with aplomb.I cannot believe that Steve Bould is allowed to drill our defence, the shambles that led to Bayerns first goal would never have happened to the defence he played in , the second two were also eminently avoidable , the 5th too could and should have been stopped only Robbens goal gets any real kudos , a great move and finish but even then a rusty Gabriel lost his man.Overall a salutary lesson for us and one would hope for our manager but as with leopards and spots and old dogs and new tricks I doubt anything significant was or will be taken on board least of all acceptance of culpability.For myself I hope now we finish bottom of the qualifying group, then we shall have a better chance domestically with our threadbare squad, first however we have the small matter of a North London vs Middlesex derby, THAT too me is the most important fixture we MUST take all three points from this game , a draw being the absolute least we can afford, usually with Wengers teams a response is forthcoming after a mauling , it would be nice if we did not have to have these redemptive games as often as we do , in over fifty five years as a goooner I cannot remember enduring so many humiliations on such a regular basis, last nights result however was if I am honest not totally unexpected it did though hammer home just how far away we are from entertaining REAL hopes of WINNING this competition, therefore I would rather we were out of Europe completely for this season as with returning injured players and if miracles occur new blood in January , the paucity of quality in the PL, this season we have the best chance in an age to actually WIN the title .

  99. Made Up Stat

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:37 #78637

    Was it just me or did anyone else think Owen Hargreaves last night sounded like a 1940s propaganda newsreel commentator? Was fully expecting him at any point to declare: ‘Wave after wave of superior German attacks are decimating the puny Englander defences!!!’ Obviously couldn’t see Herr Hargreaves, but I imagined him throughout the evening to be constantly trying to resist brandishing a Nazi salute like Dr Strangelove. btw: A massive 21 mins before Manu Utd was mentioned last night. BT Sports: Must do better!

  100. Wear Your Colours

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:28 #78636

    It was a disappointing performance. They were too sharp for us all over the pitch. Santi had a very poor game in the centre and Gabriel had one of the worst games I have seen him play. I thought the Ozil goal should have stood. Every time the ball is fired at a defender from close range and strikes his hands, all the pundits say ‘ball to hand’ no penalty. The ref’s tend to agree with this definition. Hence, the Ozil goal should have stood as it was a clear case of ‘ball to hand’. Probably wouldn’t have made much difference to the final result as Bayern were in an awesome mood last night. Their performance last night does put into perspective how well we played a fortnight ago against them. It also underlines how important the running of Theo and Ramsey is to relieve the pressure on the back four and create space for the midfield to play in. Looking forward we should dust ourselves down and regroup ahead of the week-end fixture. One positive is that Spurs are nowhere near as good as Bayern. Let’s show our ‘bouncebackability’ with a win in the North London derby, then hopefully we can get some of our players back to fitness after the international break. COYG!

  101. Roy

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:27 #78635

    If both managers had been given the option to end it at half time, they would have snapped your hand off. Tells you all you need to know about each clubs perspective. A shocker. Wenger out.

  102. Red Member

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:20 #78633

    at least we have now got the annual Champions League humiliation out of the way. Now we just have to secure enough points so we can have the privilege of doing it all over again.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz