There is something rotten at the heart of Arsenal Football Club and it’s not Arsene Wenger

Club are not contenders but the ‘best of the rest’



There is something rotten at the heart of Arsenal Football Club and it’s not Arsene Wenger

Del Boy: Arsenal personified?


Arsene Wenger has justifiably copped a lot of flak for our abject performances in the Champions League recently. Although we are currently perched at the top of the table only the eternally hopeful believe we have the wherewithal on and off the field to be in the mix come May. It is more likely that the age-old susceptibility to injuries, defensive disasters and lack of mental strength will ultimately be our undoing as they have been for several years. Wenger’s limitations, his genius, whichever way you see it, have been done to death. Some of the rancor felt towards him in some quarters is a direct result of a toxic lie at the heart of the club’s philosophy.

The club bang on about us belonging in the elite group when it is clear to all and sundry that we belong in the ‘the best of the rest’ group and show little intention of wanting to move out of it.

When we moved to the Emirates, the club made clear their objective short-term pain for long-term gain. Money is tight, prices will have to go up and we will have to sell our best players. It was painful but there was a clear sense of purpose shared by all. We played a lot of good football intermittently but we were always reassured by the fact that we couldn’t pay top wages for top players and in a sense could see ourselves as the underdogs. Fourth place was an achievement given the financial backdrop. The club told us that this move was necessary to secure our place amongst the game’s elite. It was something to be endured in the short term with the longer term in mind. Whether it was a con or not depends on your point of view but they at least had a coherent narrative that we could all buy into.

However in the last three years a chasm has opened up between what the club are telling us and the reality on the field. The club’s finances are secure, our revenue streams continue to grow but we are mired in mediocrity on the field.

They tell us we will soon be among the elite when it is clear we show neither the ambition nor the skill to be anywhere near that group. The club are acting like a dodgy second hand car salesman. It is obvious to anyone who watches football that we are in the ‘best of the rest’ group, we are not part of that elite group of clubs.

This disconnect was played out in the summer transfer window. It was left to Wenger to tell us that he (the club) couldn’t find added value in the transfer market and the squad was good enough. This was patently rubbish. What was true was that the market took a massive hike in fees and wages. As reluctant spenders, Arsenal may have gotten cold feet at the sums quoted. There was also the fact that Stan was relocating one of his US teams. Arsenal are part of a portfolio of investments for him and don’t operate independent of that portfolio. If these were relevant factors then why not say so?

Why is this disconnect so critical? James Kerr’s book ‘What the All Blacks can teach us about the business of life’ analyses what makes the All Blacks arguably the most successful sports team of all time. It has become something of a cult sports book. It makes for fascinating reading. What he makes clear is that for All Blacks the goals and values of the team, the aspiration of the fans and the legitimacy of the management have to align. There has to be coherent, transparent narrative understood by all if there is to be sustainable success. If there is a disconnect in any one of these areas the project will fail.

The club needs to front up and tell us what’s really happening. They need to make clear what their ambitions are and how they are going to achieve them. Currently the club use Wenger as the messenger and hide behind him, in many situations they hang him out to dry. Leaving him to make pathetic excuses for why we continue to fail is cowardice on the part of the club’s hierarchy. If we are only capable of being the ‘best of the rest’, if that is the limit of our ambition then so be it. At least we know the limit of our capabilities and can adjust our expectations. Villa fans (sorry to Villa fans it’s random) don’t stop supporting their club because they have no chance of ever winning the league or the Champions League.

The lie the club is perpetuating is eating away at the soul of the club and it needs dealing with.


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104
comments

  1. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 19, 2015, 7:01 #79341

    Jonny - not sure what your point is however you said "same fans saying same rubbish for years" then claimed that's fickle. Get it right old chap. Fickle means ever changing views or loyalties. Therefore these fans whoever they are actually hold a continuous steady view and as you say for years. If you want to troll at least get it right.

  2. mbg

    Nov 18, 2015, 17:41 #79332

    Bojangles, I like your style, don't be a stranger.

  3. mbg

    Nov 18, 2015, 17:17 #79331

    jw, spot on it's always about TOF saving face especially from himself as well as his fans, and as you say more often than not it back fires, but does he care ? of course not, he makes out he does and he has their well being and best interests at heart (and his followers buy into it and believe him as usual) but he doesn't/hasn't they're his interests, as long as he gets his pound of flesh out of them that's all that matters.

  4. jeff wright

    Nov 18, 2015, 16:56 #79329

    It's amazing how often for a supposedly highly intelligent ( the claims for him of genius have long bitten the dust)man he puts his foot in it. He really does need someone to keep him in touch with reality .That as we know only too well is never going to happen at AFC he has turned our club into his own little fifedom which he rules with a decadent type indulgence toward those who are loyal to him and treats his critics with sneering contempt .All is obviously not well with our great leader though as these drug claims that he made against opponents who have beaten him shows. Indeed you could not make it up.

  5. mbg

    Nov 18, 2015, 16:43 #79328

    jw, TOF's digging himself deeper alright (like some do on here) but he's pulled his horns right in now (again just like some do on here) even saying that's not what he meant and blaming others (now there's something) for twisting it and getting it wrong, now there's/it/s a no comment, what a fraud, what a dope. You couldn't make it up.

  6. jeff wright

    Nov 18, 2015, 14:58 #79319

    Flaminal ,Kent and cherry picking I don't think so sunbeam. I comment on Wenger's comments and if he says that Sanchez was exhausted after the win over Bayern and then Sanchez has 3 poor games after this I then have to accept that Wenger was not speaking with forked tongue. Are you following this >? Albeit this is not always the case. He also makes some deluded comments, or silly ones even,such as the recent drugged players that he faced . Albeit he has now backtracked on these comments by admitting that he can't prove it. I accept his admission that playing the fragile Ramsey when 'tired'was a mistake ,as we know from experience the player is injury prone and never lasts a season without some injury, so he obviously needs nursing after a run of games in a short period. I still can't see what your point is though,and that is because you clearly do not have one then again this is nothing new is it.You couldn't make it up.

  7. Flaminal

    Nov 18, 2015, 13:46 #79316

    It’s sort of sweet that you put so much stock in some of AW’s comments Jeff and not in others. I hope you don’t mind that I’ve passed on your name to a mate of mine who runs a farm in Kent. He would find your expertise invaluable during the harvesting of his cherry crop.

  8. Ron

    Nov 18, 2015, 13:39 #79315

    Westie - My Late Dad bless him never tired of telling everybody that he was at Villa Park when Drake scored his 7. He always said it ought to have been 8. TD apparently hit the bar with one effort.

  9. Westlower

    Nov 18, 2015, 12:23 #79310

    @Jeff, I wasn't claiming that Jimmy Dunne set the record while at Arsenal but I was completely oblivious of his Arsenal career. For the record he played 28 times scoring 10 goals in 1933/34. Ted Drake joined Arsenal in March 1934 for £6,500 from Southampton and became our main striker, scoring 124 goals in 167 appearances. Drake scored 42 goals in 41 games in the championship winning season of 1934/35, including 3 hat-tricks & 4 four-goal hauls. The following season he netted the famous 7 goals at Villa Park + scoring the only goal in the FA Cup final against Sheffield United. If only he were around now?

  10. Bojangles

    Nov 18, 2015, 12:18 #79309

    The tale of remaining two monkey's . For there were just two as the deluded third monkey known as Jameson had wondered into the deserts beseeching his Messiah. So the Omnipotent Monkey Badarse , Known otherwise as the pompous baboon. Cried "I am the messiah and the true light! Only I know the truth."How pleased he was with himself particularly as he had special shoes that enabled him to walk a mile and gain special insights that appear unintelligible to humanity. That left just the Angry Monkey colseyboy (72 yrs old) who claimed to have special powers to identify sickness, ailments and groin strains. But he was very angry and so he Revs his engine at old ladies crossing the road... "Get out the way yer mug" and randomly shouting 'Wenger is God' from his window. Oh how the shame of being born a son of the tribe of Tottenham burned deep within him.

  11. jeff wright

    Nov 18, 2015, 11:55 #79306

    Interesting story Westie but the guy was obviously a Sheffield United man and his great 12 consecutive goal record was not an Arsenal one! This is like claiming that Alan Ball was an Arsenal England 1966 world cup winner !I would be happy though to see Vardy beat the odious Horsehead's record.With the bar codes away next up that is not impossible.

  12. Westlower

    Nov 18, 2015, 9:08 #79295

    Anyone know the Jimmy Dunne story? With Jamie Vardy chasing Van Nistlerooy's consecutive goal scoring record of 10, it transpires the record is held by ex Arsenal man Jimmy Dunne with 12. A dagger through the heart of all UK media personnel where ideally all records are held by Man-Chester-You-Nite- Teddd players. Quite a character was our Jimmy, being a socialist, a rebel, a member of the IRA, hunger striker. On release from interment he signed for Shamrock Rovers before joining 4th Division side New Brighton. Sheffield United signed him for £800 in 1926. In 1929-30 he was Div.1 top scorer with 36 goals.The following season he scored 41 in the league & 50 in all competitions. In 1931/32 he scored in 12 consecutive games without any breaks for International's or injuries in between. The month after Dunne's prolific run ended, Arsenal bid £10,000 for him but were turned down. He went on to score 33 goals that season, the only player to score 30+ goals in 3 straight seasons. Alan Shearer repeated the feat for Blackburn. After hitting financial troubles Sheffield United sold Dunne to Arsenal for £8,250. Classic archetypal Arsenal transfer business - twas ever thus. Sheffield United were relegated & Arsenal won the league. A year later Dunne was replaced at Arsenal by Ted Drake. Jimmy Dunne died a young man, aged 44 years old and was buried in Dublin wearing his Sheffield United shirt.

  13. Westlower

    Nov 18, 2015, 8:24 #79294

    Good piece by Jeff Powell in the Mail, recalling the highlights that have happened at Wembley stadium over the ages. Lest we forget...not only the French but we English sang La Marseillaise last night. Were my grandfather still alive he would have stood in his garden and sung with them. He used to say:"' We keep having to rescue the Frenchies, but them's our allies.' So they are.

  14. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 18, 2015, 7:56 #79293

    Just some thoughts, would love to see Denis at the helm but fear his fear of flying would cause us issues. A job in Holland suits as he can be driven through most of Europe or hi tail it on an express train. Garde is an interesting call and proffered from Westlower I remember. Still think there is something in Pepe Guardiola and I reckon the 18m a season is a bit of a smokescreen. How much money does a man need? At that sort of payment you can afford to take a 50% cut still be rich as anything and take an interesting job for your next assignment. Henry needs to do proper coaching. I note the injury column is now replacing the Wenger to and fro so amused to see. Who knows best site for injury news? Would like a quick update from somewhere half decent

  15. mbg

    Nov 18, 2015, 1:09 #79292

    Ron, there you are then, been asked what your beef with Henry is, and being asked to clarify, proof (if any was needed) that what you said about him way back is true and would/will happen if he's shoe horned in as TOF's replacement, that he'd be treated like the second coming of our lord and be worshiped by the AKB's just like they do to wenger now, even though he has no experience of management whatsoever at any level other that be an ex player and a compatriot and brown noser of their messiah, sentiment and appeasement of the highest order indeed, and no ambition whatsoever, and that would suit all just fine especially the old fraud who vacated the seat looking down from the directors area taking all the accolades with a smirk on his face.

  16. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 22:55 #79291

    The media get these stories from the players and manager Flaminal. Here is what Wenger himself said " Sanchez may be rested, says Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger. ... Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has been dealt the blow of losing Aaron Ramsey to injury, whilst also admitting that Alexis Sanchez is ‘exhausted’ after the win over Bayern Munich." ... Now if he was 'exhausted' why play him against Watford and tbf he looked tired in Munich and against the spuds as well ,this was again poor judgement on Wenger's part and as big chief coach Colseyboy knows playing exhausted players in crunch games can lead to injuries.Regarding Wenger's comments on drug cheats playing against him ( he said 'him' himself Badarse by the way) he admits he can't prove however that he can't prove it.I can't see what this has to do with me commenting on comments that Wenger made about Sanchez being exhausted and needing a rest,that Wenger because of his own desperation decided not to give him. By the way sunbeam Wenger himself admitted that he made a mistake by playing Ramsey when he was tired and he ended up being injured as a result. Sh*t happens,so stick that in your pompous pipe and smoke it!

  17. Flaminal

    Nov 17, 2015, 22:21 #79290

    Ah - I see. I didn't realise you believed what you read in the papers Jeff. I thought the opposite was true otherwise you would believe what AW says wouldn't you as this is also in the papers.

  18. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 22:16 #79289

    Flaminal I said that Sanchez did not look fit before the Bayern game and was said to have been carrying an injury suffered against United - this was reported in the media with it being claimed that Sanchez intended anyway to play for Chile in their WC qualifiers. Sanchez's performances in the Bayern and spuds game were well below his normal standard and now he is out injured after playing for Chile. So what is your point then >? Colseyboy, yes a good England performance but Kos was again exposed as not being good enough he was all over the gaff and France were fortunate to only have conceded two goals both of which Kos was involved in not defending properly his two worst attributes positioning on the first goal and lack of aerial prowess on the second, he got away with two other England attempts that he also failed to defend against. Gibbs did not have a lot to do as England kept the ball well when in possession for a change. Arsene was at the game so perhaps he can reflect on how we can improve on doing that as well after the horror shows this season that we have had to endure.

  19. mbg

    Nov 17, 2015, 22:04 #79288

    jw, yes the classic tactic (and here we are accusing him of having none) of diverting attention away from his own failings, something his followers do (or try to) on here all the time with silly sayings, stories, and gobbledegook.

  20. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 17, 2015, 21:45 #79287

    Nice to see Gibbs playing really well tonight in a strong England performance. One positive to one of jeff's negatives about Kos. And he thinks he's isn't a troll. Do me a favour.

  21. Flaminal

    Nov 17, 2015, 21:05 #79286

    I might have been mistaken but I'm sure Jeff was digging out AW earlier for saying things he couldn't prove. I'm therefore sure Jeff wouldn't do the same and he can prove Sanchez was injured before he went on international duty.

  22. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 21:05 #79285

    goonercolesyboy it's a waste of time mate. Check out my exchanges with jeff. You can offer a reasoned response and he goes into automatic. It really is a dreadful waste of time. I have had odd relationships down the years with some, with a 'broken record' dialogue passing for a logical exchange. I always walk away shaking my head in disbelief and dismay-jeff meets the same criteria. Say anything rational and jeff will spin it like a top. Only he seems to believe it though-no one else does. Oh jeff didn't watch the game after all.

  23. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 21:00 #79284

    No crystal ball involved in my views or trolling either Colseyboy,it was obvious that Sanchez was not fit before the Bayern game and he should have been left out by desperate Arsene .It's also obvious that you are never going to be able to admit that Arsene's management contributes to us having every season the worst injuries in the game... trying to pin the blame on Woy Hodgson though is a bit much ... speaking of which I see that our top class centre back Keystone Kos is getting turned inside out by Rooney and co at Wembley . Good to see the show of unity though by supporters at the game .

  24. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 17, 2015, 19:59 #79283

    Inane claptrap from your crystal ball jeff. Sanchez picked up the injury in Chile. Yes he looked off his normal brilliant self by his standards in the previous two games. But again your guess work just to justify your position. England have 17 injuries, which I suppose Wenger is responsible for too?? Broken record, your trolling knows no bounds.

  25. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 19:27 #79282

    Oh dear Colseyboy, you do come up with some old codswallop. Sanchez was obviously not fit when he played in the Bayern and spuds games , Wenger was stupid to play him in the German one anyway it was only to try and save face,his own,and it backfired on him. Sanchez looked well off the pace in both games and is said to have been carrying an injury since the United game on October 4th. Despite this he played in the Chile world cup qualifiers as players tend to do when they should not. These injuries that players are always getting under Wenger are a result of him over using them and playing them when not fully fit. Wenger because of our weak squad and his own vanity regarding the game v Pep's crew had to play Sanchez in it, when the sensible thing would have been to leave him out of chasing a lost cause , to help him stay fitter. Right from the start of the season Wenger was forced to do what he said he would not do to bring Sanchez back before he was ready against WHU in the first league game at home,which we lost you will recall 2-0 to the Irons, who blew bubbles all over us.This was despite Wenger having claimed that he would give Sanchez a break due to his Copa America heroics meaning him missing out on one during the summer and leaving him needing time off. It looks like Wenger's desperate need to play Sanchez constantly has proved costly ,as some of us suggested recently that it would do. He does this all the time with players. Ramsey was another one recently and don't try to claim otherwise because Wenger admitted it! He's also admitted to over using young Jack as well . Anyway,Colesyboy your constant banging on that big bass drum about injuries happening to everyone and that there is nothing wrong with Arsene's management is looking ever more inane. Give it a rest and try playing on a Harp to ...twangy twangy twang ... C'est la vie !

  26. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 17, 2015, 18:33 #79281

    I agree Ron, an experienced manager as successor to Wenger is definitely needed. Henry is working with the younger players doing his coaching badges at the club as well as his punditry. Bergkamp has been at Ajax for a while now as assistant to De Boer and could be part of the next management team, with Bould and Guardiola at the helm. Henry needs to do what Vieira is doing, taking a job somewhere to gain experience. Yes Remi Garde could be an interesting alternative too, see how he fares at Villa. Happened to hear that fool Durham saying it was the worst appointment ever, when it was made....I hope he eats his words, but like jeff he knows it all. Fiction scattered with guesswork litter your posts jeff, so keep rehashing your mundane tripe. Sanchez got his calf strain playing in the first international for Chile, how do you give that assist to the manager eh jeff? Onwards and upwards.

  27. Westlower

    Nov 17, 2015, 18:29 #79280

    @R/K My bro in law's, late father in law (hope you're ok with pedigrees) flew the Fairy Swordfish. @Jeff, No betting yet on the Citeh game, should be available next week. Unless you attended the Wick in the 70's it probably wasn't me who shafted you. Only once did I take the afternoon of work to back a graded dog, trained by Janet Tite. I concentrated solely on backing the very best open race dogs of the era, Ballinderry Moth, Gin & Jass, Mutts Silver, Glin Bridge, London Spec, Paradise Spectre, etc. I once had a dog I owned & trained finish 3rd, beaten a neck at a flapping track & it was given out as the winner because the first two dogs were well backed & the management protected 'their' bookies.

  28. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 17:48 #79279

    So it was you doing all that betting coup rigging at the Wick Westie ! Ladbrokes put a stop to it all when they bought the gaff and ran things to suit their own nefarious ends. Never mind the urine dope tests some of the judges calls on photo finishes were what really took the piss ! The bookies are a cunning lot of so and so's they are not giving much away with those odds on us being top at Xmas .It could all change though if we don't beat City on the 19th December .They are just covering their backs in case we do. What are the odds on us beating City >? If Sanchez is outfor a few games that could also have an impact wit Aquero and Silva do back shortly at Poundlands.

  29. Radfordkennedy

    Nov 17, 2015, 17:40 #79278

    Alsace......Wow never thought I'd see the words Fairey Swordfish on a Footie forum, you obviously know your stuff mate and I'll tell you what ,if HMG make anymore cutbacks they could make a return,and if we ever have to send a Taskforce off again she'll be led by the Woolwich Ferry!

  30. Westlower

    Nov 17, 2015, 17:35 #79277

    @Jeff, I was part of a successful gamble at the Wick one Saturday morning long ago. My job was to get the money on in small amounts, at as many betting shops that I could cover that morning before the race was off. My instruction was to make sure not a penny got back to the track. The dog opened at 3/1 and returned 9/2, won 8 lengths. It took all morning to get the bets on and all afternoon to collect the winnings. I had never seen such sums of money before in my young life. I was part of a team doing it before Barney Curley hatched his own coups. Surprising update on Arsenal's imminent future as they're 11/10 to be top of the PL at Xmas, Citeh 11/8. AFC 2/7 to finish top 2. CFC now 125/1 to win PL & 7/2 top 4. This is the 2nd richest club with the best coach the world has ever seen (in his own modest judgement), last years player of the year, the best centre half, warrior & legend. A squad so deep they've had to loan out 33 players. You have to laugh.....

  31. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 17:17 #79276

    Westie I saw a few dodgy dog races at the Wick and that was just the judges calls on photo finishes! Badarse give it up is my advice there is no comparison between some one borrowing money to buy a house or to do improvements on one and an American businessman billionaire borrowing money to make money out of investing it in AFC . Even old Arsene the account hinted in his rather revealing interview with the French magazine that he though things were better when he first arrived at Arsenal with all the owners of clubs being Brits and not in the game to make money. This is surely obviously true , non >?

  32. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 16:49 #79275

    Am having second thoughts about asking the bank to loan me enough money to get a bigger loft conversion. Seems a bit immoral doesn't it jeff? Not to worry, will ask westlower.

  33. mbg

    Nov 17, 2015, 16:38 #79274

    Wengers Team Selection, more like he'd be slotted in at left back by OGL the great tactician when our usual sick note is recuperating, or maybe he used to do goals when he was younger so he might try him there.

  34. Westlower

    Nov 17, 2015, 16:33 #79273

    @Jeff, You must have led a sheltered life? When a urine sample was required it was the greyhound trainers job to provide it. That's what he was paid for. Fingers crossed that he hadn't sniffed any banned substances up his nose the night before. You couldn't make it up or could you? Ha, ha.

  35. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 16:24 #79272

    Badarse I don't see any correlation between Stan borrowing multi millions to buy shares in AFC to help him make more money to add to the billions that he already has and that of someone borrowing money to buy a house. Only you could come up with such a ludicrous analog y. Kroenke incidental is the first ever share-holder to pay himself a dividend at AFC. Some previous ones of course walked away with the millions that Stan had borrowed to buy their shares with. It's like a magic roundabout scenario when the music stops playing Stan will leap off it with his bag of swag with a new investor replacing him on the carousel the music restarts and off it goes again .Regarding the injury to Sanchez it appears he already was carrying it before he departed to Chile but Wenger risked playing him anyway - so what's new then other than Wenger doing what he always does over using players even when they need a break.

  36. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 16:07 #79271

    jeff you were in a minority if you didn't borrow from a building society for your mortgage-not too difficult to grasp that point, was it? The essence is we all do it-borrow-apart from peeps like yourself. Alexis is on International duty and gets injured-Wenger's fault? Even you couldn't make that up. Cast your mind back a while, I am the enemy of internationals-you crossed swords with me over the WC-why? An insane exchange as you clearly love them, then decry when an AFC man is injured. Odd, or what? Tonight I will watch the opening ceremony if it is on terrestrial telly, so an international!!! May switch off before the game begins though, so don't get too excited, am not about to be reconverted; if I did would I get three points? By the way waiting on a coach, with a large group of disparate individuals the word went around that some were 'doing' drugs. It became common knowledge-I was an innocent abroad in such matters then, Oct '90. I have no proof but it happened. I too couldn't prove it, so what does that prove? Too many proves spoils the brothel. Backing something up is unimportant, unless it's the last van delivery before Xmas, bringing kids their toys.

  37. mbg

    Nov 17, 2015, 15:45 #79270

    Bard, they were out of the country alright, or maybe their TV broke down, which is as good an excuse as any when another embarrassment comes along but as you know with some it isn't seen that way, out of sight out of mind and very very quickly forgotten, for some anyway. And if it wasn't for the two FA cups (that TOF and his fans only recently became interested in after the first saved their messiah's bacon) playing this good football and entertaining (wherever that came from and means) would be been cited as an achievement and progress. You couldn't make it up.

  38. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 15:29 #79269

    Wenger is digging himself into an ever deeper hole with his comments on having faced teams with players on dope in them. All a bit dopey really as he then says that he can't prove it! Sometimes it's best to say nothing at all and Wenger making allegations that he can't back up just makes him look silly.He claims that no players in his teams have ever failed drug tests . However, at least one player, a notorious gambler was known to be snorting Charlie years back and there were allegations also regarding an African player who held sex parties at his house . Wenger destroys his own case though by admitting that the current urine test is not sufficient to always spot drug abuse. So if drug use was missed on tests carried out on players at other clubs then it is not unreasonable to assume that players in Wenger's sides could also have slipped through the drug cheat net. Of course there is recreational performance enhancing off-field drug use of the sort that was alleged against two of our players - and the on-field performance enhancing type that Wenger is obviously going on about .Both are illegal though under the rules of engagement. Wenger jumping in on the drug use in Athletics cheating storm looks purely opportunistic on his part with him having nothing credible to offer regarding the use of drugs in football and is just another attempt to diver attention away from his own problems.Such as the ever on going injuries to players one.

  39. mbg

    Nov 17, 2015, 15:10 #79268

    Mark from Aylesbury, he's bitter and out of place alright, (like a few others) that's what they think of those that don't bough and worship lord wenger, but don't waste your time on him, he'll be gone like a fart in the wind when central command opens again on Thursday and prayers begin again on arseblog..

  40. Ron

    Nov 17, 2015, 14:50 #79267

    Ha ha. Thats funny Baddie. By the time you d nearly finished it, there would be the joyous drinking of the thawed juice left in the bottom too don't forget. They were sods to open, youre right. The mandatory sheath knives we carried came to the rescue there! Can recall the group of fantastic lads i hung out with as we speak. So many happy and funny memories, not many of which ever came to our Moms and Dads ears thankfully.

  41. mbg

    Nov 17, 2015, 14:45 #79266

    wardy, well said, but it's started already mate, the usual believers (sorry gullible)think as always their messiah will do the necessary even after all this time, you have to laugh. You couldn't make it up.

  42. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 14:17 #79265

    Yes Ron. In the early 1950's London, only one shop on our patch did frozen Jubbly's. The kids would go in hoping he'd got enough already in the fridge. You almost pulled your teeth out trying to bite off the corner. Then the plastic lining had to be got through. Kids around our way looked a bit terrier like with a Jubbly-almost rabid. You'd grip the end between teeth and shake your head like a dog to get through. Oh delight of delights when you did. I used to slide my bottom teeth up the side of it's pyramid shape, and like a snow plough would have all the ice particles behind my teeth. That completed the rabid look, as my eyes crossed with the brain freeze and all my teeth on edge. Yes you are so right. It sometimes squirted out of the container and you just picked it up, rubbed it on your shirt-or your little brother's, and stuck it back in for another lick, ha ha. Lovely Jubbly, indeed!

  43. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 14:11 #79263

    No Badarse I did not borrow the money to buy my house although what this has to do with anything is something that only you know. Back to reality now,Sanchez will miss the away game at West Brum ,he has suffered a calf injury. Now who would have suspected that .Never mind though because our expert medical team will no doubt get him back in time for Easter.

  44. Ron

    Nov 17, 2015, 14:00 #79262

    Jubbly s Baddie? Of course! Lovely, unless you pressed to hard to force it upwards and then it would suddenly shoot out of its leathery, cardboard like holster all over the pavement. to which then it would be picked up, dusted off on yer tee shirt and licked to oblivion!!

  45. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 13:38 #79261

    Yes jeff, there are opinions and facts; interpretations of both too, plus outrageous licence given to an entrenched view, supported by those of a similar ilk. All in the mix. Have said before when referring to your grasp of reality, whether it be politics, societies shortcomings, or just whether to go with a disposable hankie or not-all are subjective. Did you borrow the money to buy your house jeff? All a bit flimsy, don't you think. Have another go, see if you can dredge up a little more to hurl at AW. Really Alsace? I would suggest perhaps a few require a slating, otherwise the rain can get in. Those damn overheads. Take a long look at the first part of my post, and check out what it refers to. You might then be able to make an objective view of others' posts and make a genuine comparison. Did you know, wallpapering is a put up job?

  46. Alsace

    Nov 17, 2015, 13:20 #79260

    RIP's other musings when he is not slating the rest of us for being off message, are as follows..... "Baaah. Baaah. This grass is nice. That lamb has blue ink on it. This grass is nice. I don't like the sheep dip much. This grass is nice."

  47. Leggsy

    Nov 17, 2015, 13:14 #79259

    The Club have never been upfront with the fans ,why should they change now ? The Clubs business model and goals are simple and definable, qualify for the Champions League every year . The Club will spend enough for this to happen and no more meantime they will continue to stockpile cash. Wenger has bought into this and it suits him because by achieving this he has total control of the footballing side of the club which is HIS primary objective . It's all pretty simple ! Any Cup or other Success's is pure Gravy ! However since we wont spend enough the Gravy will forever be FA or League Cup . We cannot win the League under Wenger as the squad will never be of sufficient quality or size to sustain it and his own tactical deficiencies mean we will never be get closer to the Champions League than we were in 2006 under this regime !

  48. Wengers Team Selections

    Nov 17, 2015, 13:01 #79258

    Messi? I'll play him next to Per when Kos gets injured again.

  49. jeff wright

    Nov 17, 2015, 12:47 #79257

    Colesyboy ,there are opinions and there are facts.The problem is that you and other hard-on AKB's can't differentiate between fact and fiction. There is lots of fiction where Arsene is concerned , illusions are seen as being realities, mediocrity is considered success and an American businessman paying himself 3m a year from the club's profits is money well spent. That is according to old Etonian Chips the chairman of the AFC bored.( Yawn) This despite Silent Stan having borrowed the money that he bought his shares in AFC with. That is a fact -it's also a fact that under Stan's regime we have suffered the worst results in our history. We have won FA Cups before he arrived and top 4 places as well and considering our financial clout compared with some other clubs 3rd and 4th places are just the minimum one would expect. If Chelsea fail to get a top 4 finish this season they will have seriously under achieved -if the spuds get 4th they will over achieved and will be dancing in the aisles all full of optimism for the future. Everything in football is relevant to circumstances . Wenger going berserk over finishing 4th and partying like it was 1999 that time was nothing but a crass embarrassment. The man has no self awareness or class either and the le prof image is also just another illusion bought into by fools. Wenger is a boring Monsieur a bit of a loner and cold with it. By the way it's not that difficult these days to make money in English football . Stan and co are not working miracles doing so however they are counting the pennies and hoarding them away . Not for that rainy day though because Stan is never going to see one he will be long gone with the loot before that comes around. C'est la vie indeed.You couldn't make it up.

  50. Me

    Nov 17, 2015, 12:38 #79256

    Brilliant article...

  51. Amos

    Nov 17, 2015, 12:37 #79255

    Apart from a brief period before WW2 we were probably always among this 'best of the rest group' not that, with the possible exception, on a European basis at least, of Real Madrid, that 'best group' has been all that constant. On a domestic basis it have been more distorted over the last decade than previously for reasons that followers of changes in the game will be familiar with. But is it true that Arsenal hasn't had the ambition to try to challenge by increasing the financial resources acquired to get closer to whoever are the current day 'best' group of clubs? Take a look at the financial statements and it appears that the club has invested pretty heavily in squad development. Player contract investment is reflected in an increase in 'intangible assets'. That was fairly static in the 5 years since we moved to the Emirates but in 2012, the first full year under Kroenke control, it jumped more than 50%, the following year saw another double digit percentage growth repeated by almost 20% the following year while the last financial years figures shows another 50% growth. Perceptions are one thing but the reality is that the club has invested heavily, not only in revenue generating assets, but has been using those revenues to develop the squad.

  52. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 12:14 #79254

    John F he is thinking of the lucre from the Sky TV interviews, lovely jubbly! Who remembers Jubbly? More on this later.

  53. John F

    Nov 17, 2015, 12:09 #79253

    Ron,You might get injured and out for the rest of the season and more if you manage to get a game is it worth the risk ,although you might be offered a new 5 year contract for your trouble.

  54. Ron

    Nov 17, 2015, 11:59 #79252

    GoonerC'y - ill be watching the Garde experiment at Aston Villa very closely. I know a few insiders at AV and they speak very, very well of him as a man and he does seem very studious, strong and astute. If it works for him at Villa, itself a big Club though without a helmsman for so long, he may well be the type of ex player who could do well at AFC. We ll have to see wont we. Id have a bit more respect for yr mate Henry if he was out there serving a real apprenticeship, managing real situations instead of sitting there smugly in his plush warm studio setting expecting his name alone to traverse him towards a top job, fuelled and fostered by his insider links.

  55. Ron

    Nov 17, 2015, 11:40 #79251

    GoonerC 'y - i think the AFC job is a job for a recognised Coach, not a job for a trialist appointed by false sentiment and one offered up as 'some thing the fans would like'. The Clubs supposed to be bigger than that and need to act accordingly. Moreover, if his management style mirrors his Captaincy methods he wont succeed. He was an overly critical Captain who chose to blame weaker personalities for his own deficiencies in games at times and wasnt even close to being a good Skip. I perceive his character to be a little underhanded. Hes rather puffed up on his own hype. I could be wrong, but i dont think so. Im never impressed by his analysis of games either. I know punditry involves certain scripted comments but i find Henry to sadly lack clear logic and hes too willing to say what he thinks people want to hear from him. that doesn't bode well for coaching. Hes a bit of a waffler. By all means he can go into Coaching and possibly do OK, but we need a track record to get the top job at Arsenal and the Clubs shdt allow the old pals act of Wenger and Henry to dictate its thinking, however much those two want to create a Gallic sense of comfort there. Its this latter flavour that AFC need to shed in my view if the Club is really to raise its own bar.

  56. Bard

    Nov 17, 2015, 11:17 #79250

    Interesting stuff as usual. I expected a bit of flak but those posters citing our 2 FA cups in 10 years as evidence that we are not mired in mediocrity took my breath away. Is that really all some fans expect from the 6/7th richest club in the world. Presumably most of them were out of the country when we got thrashed by Bayern. Talk about low expectations.

  57. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 11:08 #79249

    Ron if you get that game can I be in charge of the 'magic sponge', please? AKBest, you are getting to know me well; of course I meant no disrespect, but being a humanist I am very comfortable with the concept of death. Getting a bit deep here, around six feet? Not wanting to be too grave I was just saying life deals us different hands, sometimes you fold and get a better hand dealt-or a worse one. All relative, just like my Aunty Doris, she is all relative...a big woman! Mark of Nark, I get the drift fella. All a big turn of the wheel, not quite like Henry James', 'Turn of the Screw', (a good book and a special author-whoops there I go again!), tried a turn of the screw on a wheel and fell off! Do think the lad-RIP-is allowed to come on here periodically/regularly and complain about negativity, at least it's generalised and isn't personalised towards mbg, who does the same in order to remind us that we are all growing older by the nanosecond by focussing on AW's age. Messi? Wouldn't really want him as the price would be too high. Apart from the fee and wages, the seismic upheaval within the club and all the ramifications it would cause wouldn't justify the project. Be interesting though. Mister Grumpy was a star too.

  58. Ron

    Nov 17, 2015, 10:38 #79248

    Westie - im not a big fan of international friendlies either but i think you've got it back to front by shaving international football just for the Clubs whimsies. The Clubs dictate international coaches enough already and impede their planning unfairly. Better in my view to shave that ridiculous CL format and limit the entrants into it to be the Champions only. International football and any international sport in fact, still acts as a unifier, a bulwark to aggression between nations. Why should it be sacrificed on the latter of Clubs greed? I would argue that the results and outcomes of Arsenals efforts in tourneys isn't altered one jot anyway by players representing their Countries. AFC isnt a major player in the CL, and coaches like Wenger use the international games as a scapegoat for his and his Clubs paltry efforts in the CL and ultimate failings. International coaches who stand up to him and others like him get my full support. Clubs do little to nothing for sporting harmony across the World, national teams do.If we are going to have international football, however tedious it can be at times, it must by definition take precedence over what mere Clubs want and certainly take precedence over what moaners like Wenger want.In this week of all weeks i would suggest that you ought to be backing international matches, not dismissing them.

  59. Ron

    Nov 17, 2015, 10:21 #79247

    Ill get a game for us before Messi signs!

  60. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 17, 2015, 10:07 #79246

    Westlower - No but a certain dipsomaniac, glaswegian manager with a schnoz like a natural sponge was much more effective at standing up to international coaches and telling them they going to have to go without certain players, esp. for meaningless games. And to this outside, it seemed that he also inculcated an attitude among his players that appearing for one's country was secondary to the real thing. And the difference between that manager and ours? Sustained and meaningful success of course. All wengie seems to do is annoy them (Coleman) and lose the public debate over who is right. There, I've offered you more than one dimension in my riposte.

  61. Westlower

    Nov 17, 2015, 9:32 #79245

    Mark These Messi type stories usually come out during the International break as news is in short supply. Would I want him? As an individual obviously yes. Is it a step forward to sign an individual who is arguably bigger than the club? Alexis would probably be sacrificed for the deal to happen. Would discontentment foster among the other players on paupers wages in comparison? Do AFC blow the clubs wage structure to pieces? Messi would earn Wenger's annual wages in 3 months. What if he gets a long term injury shortly after joining? He's got maybe 3/4 years left at the top of his game with limited sell on value. Who would buy a 31 year old on a £100m 3 year wages contract? Disturbing news from Chile that Alexis suffering from a calf strain & fatigue yet the Chileans are still considering playing him. If he were greyhound or racehorse the vets wouldn't allow him to run. The time hascome to reign in International fixtures to a manageable level for the players. England are struggling to put out a fit team this evening. Somewhere in there it must be Wengers fault according to the one dimensional thinkers!

  62. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 17, 2015, 9:24 #79244

    Messi? 600K a week? hahahahaahaah, bloooooaghhhhh! Just laughed myself sick there. BDarse - as self-styled arbiter of all that is tasteful on here, your comment about Osgood was a little - just a little - crass. But I'm sure you didn't mean it to come out that way.

  63. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 17, 2015, 8:38 #79243

    Badarse- he has effectively told everyone who doesn't agree with him to push off so that the entire site can be modelled to the image he desires. 2nd thing I strongly suggest the person is a peddler of untruths. I.e many of his mates just happen to buy the Gooner but no longer do because of its tone. Bit like I have a letter from a woman from Wolverhampton arguament. What I am saying here that in its heyday when say up to 8 or 9 of us would come up from Aylesbury probably only me and one other would buy the Gooner and / or other fanzines. Most have sadly whittled away. So simply do not believe him. 3rd point I make which seems to go above some people's heads is that web media sites push different views. If you are so frustrated then move on. Simples... Bitter? well naming yourself after a saying for the dead is hardly cheery and suggests inward angst. I'm not against other opinion but don't like porkie's! I admit I am bitter, bitter at standing on this train for one hour! But no bitterness to you or Coleslaw. Now where were we , was it yes or no to Messi?

  64. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 8:25 #79242

    Morning the Mark of Nark. Think the person-RIP-is entitled to register a protest fella, don't you? Don't think he should be 'invited' to push off either. Funny thing is, as I have oft said, many from the 'Dark side', gripe about the 'f**k off down the Lane', attitude, yet say exactly the same in a disguised fashion. I have been 'invited' to go a number of places over the last couple of months-all thinly veiled 'digs'. As mentioned before had I done so it would not have been Travelodgical. I don't see the chap as being bitter. Frustrated, perhaps? Incredulous, possibly? Irked, certainly. As for discussing Mister Messy, I always loved Mister Happy-good old Roger Hargreaves, held out as an independent for yonks.

  65. Tony Evans

    Nov 17, 2015, 8:18 #79241

    Morning Badarse - like your 6-0 cfc story, every cloud eh? You must have been a tad good in your football prime - Osgood was a great player, and it's no shame to be pipped at the post by him. Good side Chelsea in the late 60s, early 70s; they played some smashing stuff, backed up by some genuine hard men. Loved it when they beat Leeds in the 70 cup final

  66. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 17, 2015, 8:11 #79240

    Ok Messi wants to join Arsenal and wants 600k per week (let's not worry if it's true! Though it is gossip) Do you say - YES or do you say -NO I'm a yes! Let's have some views !

  67. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 17, 2015, 7:56 #79239

    RIP - I know many many people. Really, I mean really? Even in its heyday pre internet lots of Arsenal supporters merrily went to Highbury and bought the match programme and that was it. The Internet provides a focal point of views that tend to group together. If you don't like this site go elsewhere no ones stopping you and you appear bitter and out of place. If it makes you feel better I don't go onto untold Arsenal and stress out there. Bet Mandy Dodd loves it!!!

  68. Badarse

    Nov 17, 2015, 7:54 #79238

    Morning Tony. Of course you are right in a way, yet life is littered with, 'what might have been'. At Hendon in the summer of '64, I never made the cut for CFC-one Peter Osgood did. I am still disappointed, but glad my life turned out the way it did. Anyway the lad is dead now, and I live on, so am winning this trial. On that subject I was talking to an Arsenal fan yesterday about Arsene Wenger. The chap said he hated people who moaned and criticised him, and that he owed his life to him. He explained that he was in a coma in hospital as he heard Arsene explaining how we managed to lose 6-0 to CFC. Said he came out of his coma, got out of his bed and smashed the telly.

  69. Tony Evans

    Nov 17, 2015, 7:09 #79237

    Hi Badarse - certainly agree winning the PL would still be a great achievement . Doubly frustrating if we don,t though when it is there for the taking and one or two more additions to our squad in the summer may have made all the difference.

  70. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 16, 2015, 23:26 #79236

    I am not sure what your beef about Thierry is, Ron? You have commented numerous times about him and his demeanour. I seek clarification as to why you think he would be a disaster, not that I think he is ready right now but in time, with the right staff, then why not?

  71. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2015, 23:11 #79235

    Evening Tony. The word hilarious wasn't directed at you personally. It was an accumulative reaction. As I tried to explain if one says, 'it's there for the taking', 'we have no excuses if we don't win it this time', 'the opposition are rubbish', 'the PL is the worst for years', etc, then people adopt that mentality-I think that outlook is 'hilariously incorrect'. It is always tough to win anything. I've found 5 a side competitions tough to win. It is tempting to get carried away with a ground swell of opinion, and I will just put in my two pennyworth. If we won it this season it would be a magnificent achievement-we would not win it by default buddy.

  72. Ron

    Nov 16, 2015, 22:43 #79234

    GoonerC'y - i think that sentiment which you mention is one that could be afforded to AW ie that the need and desire to win trophies etc etc is what s really hankered for at base level, but its not once necessarily that befits the Clubs owners. A business will often set its targets and once its targets are are there or thereabouts wont want to seek to exceed them if the risk is perceived as too high or if the investment isn't seen as a sure sound investment. I think that the Club is ecstatic at where FC are but as ive said, despite what my view on Arsenes contd longevity at Arsenal is, i think in an ideal World there's part of him that thinks as a fan does even after all of these years of suppression of footballing desires. In his case, i think as hes aged, hes become a bit institutionalized by the Clubs present culture (im reluctant to use the word). Together, those facets make him impermeable to change now. AWs job is done in my view and in fairness to AW,some body had to do it and in doing so act as the Boards lightening conductor. Simple as that mate. Many Clubs wd have dealt with the same situ by sacrificing its Coach time after time to sate the fans angst. Theres a case to be said that Wengers yrs of steering the ship through the last decade surpasses his first decade. My fear is that Club will become subsumed by 'reward mentality'though and not have the vision to see that he has to go soon. Its a tough call for them, no doubt but in my view one that's as vital as any the Club's ever made, certainly during his tenure, but possibly before it too. There will be fear in the Club to let him go and i understand that totally, but the Clubs hierarchy needs to lead now and move on to the next plateau. I dearly hope that what i suspect to be the case isnt going to happen and that's the fast tracking of Mr Henry. Hes could be an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions i feel.

  73. Wrinkly Voyeur

    Nov 16, 2015, 22:27 #79233

    well...errr....overall I belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeve even Arsene's bowel movements are top top qualiteeee.

  74. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 16, 2015, 22:17 #79232

    I am not sure that any ownership of a club just wants to meander along and not want the feeling of success by winning matches and ultimately trophies. As owners they are trying to maximise their asset. Running a business to make money and hope that eventually winning happens too, which will increase their earnings by qualifying for tournaments and progression into a competition deeper makes the club more mo ey. The stadium move was harder to do than was envisaged and so selling assets was the only way. Ticket prices is one of those, you pay or decide not to. There are enough supporters or fans who want to buy, so as we know, many on here no longer want to go or pay. The ownership cannot possibly feel the financial or emotional pain of the every day fan. As RIP stated, this site has a slanted and negative viewpoint of anything Arsenal, but as everyone has an opinion then c'est la vie. You couldn't make it up. Onwards and upwards.

  75. RIP

    Nov 16, 2015, 21:08 #79231

    Why oh why oh why oh why does this site give people who have absolutely no heart in this club of mine a minute or seconds chance.... PATHETIC. I know of many, many folk who will no longer buy the gooner fanzine because the site is no longer viable toward its anti Arsenal stance. Take one good long look Mr editor

  76. Wardy

    Nov 16, 2015, 20:46 #79230

    Spot on mate and all football (not just Arsenal) fans know it to be true ..... this season will be same old same old as far as the league goes, it's just such a shame that the club treats us all like mugs ...... i can't wait to be linked with every player in Europe and sign none of them as usual..... same old transfer saga every window & match day prices are disgusting

  77. Tony Evans

    Nov 16, 2015, 20:07 #79229

    Thank you Ron - you get my point, although perhaps default may not have been the most appropriate word to have used - point noted Badarse, although describing it as hilarious is a bit ott.

  78. mbg

    Nov 16, 2015, 17:39 #79228

    jw, and that can't come soon enough, and God help that youth Academy, knowing our luck it will be ours, only fools and horses relevant here, as one episode had Rodney quote when he was a little lad and had nobody and needed guidance Del appeared from the gas works like a silhouette and declared I shall bring him up in the ways of Del boy, here we'll have OGL ghosting in through the academy gates with his sleeping bag on and declaring I will bring the young lads up in the ways of wenger boy, all little second rate dwarfs and have them playing tippy tappy going nowhere football in no time, only next year they'll BE millionaires.

  79. Ron

    Nov 16, 2015, 17:36 #79227

    Hi Baddie - yes mate. My post wasn't aiming to dig at you, though it reads a bit like it. Sorry. I think you used the word 'hilarious' loosely in fairness, as i so used the word 'rudely' ha. I should have used 'summarily' shouldn't i. Yr so right re Fridays new low as well. Still stunned. Baddie,I just tune in to the Test match at the moment in Perth to see that glorious sunshine to keep my sport spirits up to scratch in the real 'beautiful game' ha ha!but cmon the Gunners nontheless.

  80. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2015, 17:20 #79226

    A well constructed defence Ron, as I would expect. I have no axe to grind with Tony-he knows that. I am very aware that a mind set comes about by dint of repetition. If people begin to talk in these terms then before long that becomes accepted as 'real'. I was injecting a little balance. As we are dealing in vocabulary, I didn't actually laugh when I responded-that too was a casual response, so I guess I am also exonerated. The smile was wiped off all our faces on Friday buddy, it's a long and winding road back from that event-until the next outrage occurs. Peace, so fragile.

  81. Ron

    Nov 16, 2015, 17:11 #79225

    On the point of 'default', i believe that Tony is using the word loosely and thus it doesn't merit his view to be deemed 'hilarious'. His use of it means to win a title when the other teams are considerably weaker and the context needs examining before the opinion is so rudely cast aside. Theres force of argument to suggest that all of our title wins under Wenger have occurred when the primary and established challengers for the title are at a lower number and level. This was perhaps the case in 1998, in a 2 horse race when Utd effectively fell away and the last 10 - 14 games saw us take it from an Xmas position where it seemed unlikely. The years 2001 to 2004 saw Utd at a crossroads with the uncertainty of Fergusons stated and seeming, but later retracted retirement hanging about as well as his team being in a very transitional state at that time. We took titles then as a result, again in a 2 horse race. The titles between 2005 - 2008 were won by other teams in a 2 horse race, but at least the teams then pushing the top 4 ceiling were dangerous competitors i.e. AFC and Liverpool at various times. Since 2008 the depth of real challengers has widened with City joining in and we had the Liverpool thing in 2013. To win the title in those years has been to win it by being the best of a number of realistic challengers. It remains to be seen this year whether Utd are the 3rd of a list or whether its really a 2 horse race again. This deems the use of the word 'default' quite reasonable in my view albeit a casual use of such a word.

  82. jeff wright

    Nov 16, 2015, 16:33 #79224

    TE, top 3 and FA Cup would be looked on at the moment by Chelsea and United as a good result albeit they were aiming higher at the start - but I doubt that anyone would see it as being a success. The claims for Wenger's FA Cup wins is based on his lack of winning any trophies for donkey's years ,something that neither Chelsea or United have suffered from over that recent period of time. A top 2 finish was not viewed as being successful for City last season and nor will it be this time either if it happens. I still see them, along with the bookies,as being strong favs to lift the title come May, if not then Pell could well be shown the door at Poundlands where finishing second is not good enough. For Wenger the rules are obviously different he can finish 3rd or 4th and it's party time... C' est la vie !

  83. Badarse

    Nov 16, 2015, 16:20 #79222

    Thanks Bard. I note you are at last coming around to the idea that the market forces which govern us all, have a large influence on how matters progress-or may regress, on the pitch. The idea that a team might win the title by default is hilarious. For a variety of reasons the opposition may offer less resistance, this is generally due to a set of random circumstances, but has to be taken advantage of if success is to follow. That is the basic requirement for winning anything. We had weak opposition in May's cup final-of course we had to win our way through to that last match at Wembley, play well enough on the day, and have no unfortunate occurrences count against us. Easy! I hope the resistance is always as 'weak'. Well done the Flaminal.

  84. Tony Evans

    Nov 16, 2015, 16:01 #79221

    Hi Bard - can't exempt Wenger from the rot, but otherwise agree with you. A great deal depends on how success is measured though - the Spuds would give their right arm for two FA Cup wins in two years and top four status but is it good enough for Arsenal? What frustrates me is how close we always seem to be to being the finished article but never getting there, and the blame for that is firmly at Wenger's door; although ironically, as Ron says, we could get the title this time by default, and that's fine by me. Manure did just that a couple of years ago and it could easily happen again such is the general poor standard of the Premiership.

  85. Alsace

    Nov 16, 2015, 15:50 #79220

    This is a very interesting perspective. I could not agree more about goals and setting out to achieve them. I'm as firmly in the Wenger out camp as it is possible to be, but there is more than a grain of truth in what is being said. The Americans are happy with the income stream. The non execs and minority shareholders are certainly not driving things. Mr Gazidis was effectively appointed by Mr Wenger. Mr Wenger does his best. Not even I doubt that. Those directing the club are happy being also rans. We were promised and would like something better. Whilst we may not have money to burn, we do have enough for a decent squad properly managed. It is all part of the same problem. I can hear Kenny Loggins playing an acoustic version of "Highway to the Comfort Zone" - and the aircraft on deck are somewhat battered Fairey Swordfish.

  86. Finsbury Joe

    Nov 16, 2015, 15:19 #79218

    It is clear Wenger , the owner, board and some of the fanbase share this chronic lack of ambition. If there is anyone in the upper echelons of the club with any desire for success, it would long have been stified by now....can you imagine, trying to get Wenger to go along with some idea that might improve things! But dont expect them to go public on their real aims for the club. And things will get worse, there are just too many stories on Alexis to Utd for there not to be something in it. You just know that this manager and club would jump at a £20 million profit on a player....always have and always will, which is one of the reasons why these players leave in the first place. And why wouldnt Alexis want to test himself at a club with true ambition? Still, one photon of light in the gloom, if Flamsters business goes well, he might want to buy the club one day. He was the one player that demonstrated even the slightest passion in the battering and humiliation Wenger has taken in his last league game, not to mention the CL game before that as well.

  87. jeff wright

    Nov 16, 2015, 15:07 #79217

    Wenger's comments recently that he would like to coach young players when he leaves AFC rather than manage another club,is also revealing regarding his football related persona. He did of course try to implement both his love of coaching kids with managing AFC at one time,with predictably disastrous results from which he never fully recovered. I have never seen Wenger as being a proper big club manager and along with many donot believe that he would have lasted at any top club for very long . As Ron says the decline of other clubs such as United and Chelsea has given Wenger an opportunity to compete for the league with City. Personally I don't see him taking it ,not when 2nd or 3rd place looks nailed on for us. He couldn't finish in front of City last season with 10 to play on the run-in from a stronger position than what we are in at present. Also although Chelsea have declined they still beat us and I see no sign that Wenger or our players either are up for a fight with just the usual excuses of fatigue being put up after dropping points at home to the spuds again . However seeing that we finished the game stronger than Poch's crew the fatigue claims ring rather hollow. Then again is that not always so >?

  88. mbg

    Nov 16, 2015, 14:57 #79216

    Only fools and horses, a perfect caption for everything Arsenal, club, manager, fans, and players, but thankfully not all fans are fools.

  89. Ron

    Nov 16, 2015, 13:58 #79215

    Hi Bard - i think that the Club can ironically win the title this time oddly enough, but its down to the general falling standard of the PL rather than AFC s business plan and its management. The level has fallen to meet them rather than the converse. My view remains that post 2009 the standard in that league, as between the so called top clubs has plummeted. There is rot at AFC, i agree. Id widen it though. The rot has permeated football itself via its changes to the tournaments i.e. this zany 'Champions League' and its entry requirements and the spin off negative effects on not only the home Cups but the title itself. Its no longer a requirement to be first. Success is measured by money, the media and business moguls definitions of it. The corporatism of football is the smelliest rot that abounds in the game now. Yes Wengers methods contribute of course but in truth hes peripheral and he probably saw this coming i think and gladly sold his soul to the devil when he sacrificed football mores and achievement for balancing the books in a way laid down by SK. He had choices of course, he could have walked. I don't agree that the Club was ever as clear as you say. Did they ever say ' we ll need to sell our best players'? Im not sure they ever did. They let the notion grow into the fans conciousness really. For me, ive always thought change has been needed at owner level and in the Coach's room as well. AW is a happy spokesman for this Boardroom and hes paid well to take the fan flak. Part of him is still at one with the fans i think in fairness to the man, deep down, but he, like Arsenal have accepted and embraced the new realities. Its for the fans to make their choices now as to where football lies in their lives. Personally for me, i have a wider angle lens on football and the other teams to glean pleasure from wjhats left of football as we once knew it. It no longer upsets me what Arsenal do or don't achieve. Theyve made their choice. Yes, they could do better under a better Coach than Wenger im sure. I think even AFC know that deep down too, but he does what needed in the modern game to fit a definition of success and it will cost a lot more than 8 Million a yr to improve on him so why would they? AFC is a Club in a state of topor. I agree with you. Sadly, the meauring stick of success in the game game today says otherwise. We take it or leave it dont we. For me im getting a lot of enjoyment seeing yr Palaces, Saints and Leicester's trying to batter down the door to the upper level of the PL Cathedral, without them right now, football would indeed be a more tiresome and tedious sport in the UK. AFC can do what it wants.

  90. jeff wright

    Nov 16, 2015, 13:28 #79214

    Problems 5by4 or whatever 3rd place and an FA Cup is mediocrity after 11 years since our last title win and no trophies ever in Europe for Wenger over 20 years and no title challenge since 2004 and the ever increasing worst defeats in AFC history that follow season on dreary season. .You have to look at the bigger picture sunbeam a wage bill on a par with Chelsea promises made and not kept a manager on 8m + a year wages and a major shareholder pay gn himself a 3m a year div for giving financial advice .You couldn't make it up. FA Cup wins and top 4 places alone are not considered good enough at United,City and Chelsea, they want better . So why are these not anything out of the ordinary for top clubs good enough for us then>? I don't expect a sensible answer to this and pointing out that the spuds would be happy with it is not one either. My view is that our manager and major shareholder lack ambition and Wenger's recent comments about him liking the English because they applaud losers !This sums up the attitude at AFC these days under Wenger and Stan's money making obsessed regieme.

  91. Pesho Saulov

    Nov 16, 2015, 13:20 #79213

    I completely agree with this article. For years there has been a gap between what the club announces as targets for the season and the means employed to achieve them. The clubs owners have been hiding behind Wenger whose image gives their claims credibility, but if we look objectively at what Arsenal is actually doing in terms of transfers the goal clearly isn't either the EPL or the CL. Signing Cech was down to circumstances and not genuine ambition from Arsenal. Chelsea were in the untenable situation of having two of the best GK in the world and the club showed class by letting the player who has served them selflessly for over 10 years go to to a club of his choice (despite the protests of Mourhino). Real ambition would be for us to go after one of the top players in the league without the consent of their current owners (Cashley, RVP, Sagna, Cesc to name a dew examples).

  92. Ross

    Nov 16, 2015, 13:14 #79212

    Spoiled-fan alert. Mired in mediocrity is 2 FA Cups in 2 years with some of the best players in the league and on top of that some of the best football and one of the best defensive records. Hm. Regarding the 'Elite' you bang on about, you can put as many paragraphs in as you want but end of the day it comes down the the wallet sizes. Ours would certainly fit the 'best of the rest' category there.

  93. QuartzGooner

    Nov 16, 2015, 12:52 #79211

    My guess: I think that Stan Kroenke is encouraging the club to amass enough money in the bank to balance what the club owe on the stadium. To cover the £21M per season we owe the banks until summer 2031. When that amount has been amassed he will be able to spend more on players, or will consider if he wants to sell the club from what he sees as a position of strength. Until then, we are not using all our finances to back the squad.

  94. mbg

    Nov 16, 2015, 12:48 #79210

    There's still plenty of those about Bard even after all this time of eternally waiting for it to be different this time, and it all to come good and the dream realised, and TOF to come good, (no matter how many times they've been told it/he won't) and it never does no matter how they hope, and it will be no different this time. Because as you say they have no ambition to be, and are just happy to carry on as also ran's with an also ran manager. And when it's realised yet again when that feeling hits them in the pit of their stomach (yet again) and wenger has let his followers and Arsenal fans down yet again, the blame game will begin along with the spin game,(like it always does also) it'll be everybody's, everything's fault except the one person who is to blame an old past it manager.

  95. fivetothree

    Nov 16, 2015, 12:45 #79209

    An Fa Cup and 3rd place in the league is "mired in mediocrity"?!

  96. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 16, 2015, 12:16 #79208

    Bard - Thanks - very thought-provoking as usual. I think one aspect of the club's approach to the public which AKBs and WOBs can agree on, is that they are chronically phobic about telling the truth and giving all of the details. They treat fans like idiots and think they have sole custodianship of the club, its history and its future. Sometimes economy with the truth in the short term will be for good reasons, e.g. because they are interested in a player and don't want others to know, or in order to secure the best possible price. But every year since the move, there has been mixed messages and mistruths between ambition and the need for financial prudence. I tired long ago of not knowing what is really happening, who we might be in for, what the board thinks etc. etc ad nauseam, and the media are worse than useless because they need the club for copy, not the other way round. This corporate-sponsored lying is what banks, car companies and others do so Arsenal's approach isn't surprising. I would contend that Wenger IS partly to blame for this - he's evidently an educated man, arguably more so than most of the board and he's either paid to keep schtum or is actually helping to steer the ship of lies. And when you're as sunk to the pelotas in corporate dung as he is, and as far as Gazidis and Kroenke are, then he must shoulder some responsibility. I was going to say "blame" but he's never going to take any of that is he, at least for as long as he has injuries, defensive back 5 issues, fatigue, fixture calendar, international break, standard of vol-au-vents in Zagreb etc. etc. It needed to be said though Bard and you did it with your usual fluency. Crispen - say what you really think mate, which isn't very much.

  97. jeff wright

    Nov 16, 2015, 12:08 #79207

    All of Kroenke's clubs,we are just one of them, meander along in mediocrity regarding winning trophies. Making a profits is what Stan regards as being successful.The desperate cries from the AKB's of we are joint top of the league is just an illusion along with the 2 FA Cup wins following on to 10 trophyless seasons. We will not be top of the league at Christmas or in May either.If we are tell me about it. As for the FA Cup well it's something that anyone can win and that includes Wenger,it seems unlikely though that he will win it three times running. The competition for it this season is likely to be stronger . I note that the usual suspects are not mentioning the embarrassing abject failures again in Europe and in the League Cup to a Championship side yet were crowing when we beat the spuds. These defeats in Europe and in the League Cup were down to Wenger's inept management and he is a crucial part of Stan's business plan because in the end success will be judged by Stan on whether or not Wenger produces the Champions League booty next season .If he wins the FA Cup is irrelevant to that fact. It's the money wot counts in business plans.

  98. crispen

    Nov 16, 2015, 11:08 #79206

    "They tell us we will soon be among the elite when it is clear we show neither the ambition nor the skill to be anywhere near that group." Assuming Chelsea and Manure are in that "group" and are both behind us on the log I find it hard to figure out what you are trying to say.... An article full of utter rubbish

  99. Westlower

    Nov 16, 2015, 10:47 #79205

    The club have a policy of only spending what they earn. Of course it handicaps us against the powerful Sheikh Mansour, Abramovich & Man U. In comparison it's hard to be overly ambitious being 4th best in the money stakes. We have come through the worst of our financial restraints but the world has moved on since we left Highbury, when only Man U were our main rival. Something rotten at the heart of the club is more applicable to Leeds United, not Arsenal.

  100. Ynys

    Nov 16, 2015, 10:44 #79204

    Good reading

  101. SharkeySuresGhost

    Nov 16, 2015, 10:24 #79203

    Can you summarise your points into a couple of succinct sentences for me..?? As it is, I'm not really sure what you are trying to get across. I wonder if you think that our lack of summer signings was a deliberate part of the boards master plan to hold us back..?? Gotta love how you dismiss us being joint top.. :-(

  102. CB

    Nov 16, 2015, 10:23 #79202

    We are top of the league with 5 bottom three/half teams to play before Christmas, pus City at home and Southampton away. We would be unbeaten since the first match and probably top if Mike Dean hadn't shafted us and had sent off Costa, as the FA said he should have. We bought Cech in the summer. We have won the FA Cup the last two seasons. We have many of the best players in the PL plus more than decent back-ups and are showing ambition to succeed given our league position and performances, though we are concentrating there rather than Europe. The above is reality.

  103. kaejlaab

    Nov 16, 2015, 10:22 #79201

    1)we were promised cheaper prices not highter prices. 2)we were never told we would have to sell our top players. 3)If Wenger has know this all along then he`s as bad as the board and is therefor as guilty as any of them

  104. SAGunner

    Nov 16, 2015, 10:14 #79199

    Excellent article and Oh so true