#FlashbackFriday – Arsenal in Europe: Part Two

Part two of a look back at the Gunners’ campaigns against continental opposition takes us up to the early 1980s



#FlashbackFriday – Arsenal in Europe: Part Two

Johan Cruyff running out at Highbury before he became a household name


Arsenal’s defence of the Fairs Cup in 1970/71 started with a first round tie against Lazio of Italy in the first round. In the first leg two strikes John Radford gave Arsenal a two goal lead by fifty six minutes, however Lazio pulled level with two goals from Giorgio Chinaglia - a player of Italian birth though grew up in South Wales and actually started his career at Swansea, though finished it playing alongside the like of Pele, Beckenbauer and Bobby Moore at the New York Cosmos.

The first leg was quite a tempestuous affair, which boiled over at a post-match meal held for the two sides. Young Ray Kennedy was set upon by three Lazio players on leaving the restaurant, which led to his Arsenal team mates leaping to his defence. The trouble escalated to the point where the majority of the Arsenal and Lazio squad were involved in the scrap with even Bertie Mee swapping blows with his opposite number, something which finally endeared him to many of his players who previously saw him as a stiff upper lip type. Back at Highbury, in front of a 53,000 crowd baying for blood Arsenal secured their passage to the next round with a 2-0 win, with goals from George Armstrong and John Radford.

Arsenal proceeded to meet Sturm Graz in the Second Round with a 0-1 defeat in Austria over turned with a 2-0 victory at Highbury with goals from Ray Kennedy and Peter Storey, followed by a 4-0 win over Belgian side Beveren with goals from George Graham, Jon Sammels and two for Ray Kennedy. Arsenal’s defence of the Fairs Cup however would fail on account of losing to 1FC Koln on away goals, defeating the West German side 2-1 at Highbury with goals from Frank McLintock and Peter Storey, but losing 0-1 away. On winning the League and FA Cup double in 1970/71, Arsenal entered the European Cup for the first time, drawn against Norwegian side Strømsgodset IF in the first leg in which Arsenal triumphed 3-1 with goals for Peter Marinello, Peter Simpson and Eddie Kelly.

This match also featured an Arsenal debut for Paul Davies, not he who broke Glenn Cockerill’s jaw but a member of Arsenal’s 1971 FA Youth Cup winning side who was transferred to Charlton within twelve months. Back at Highbury Arsenal won the second leg 4-0, with goals from George Armstrong, Ray Kennedy and two for John Radford. In the second leg Arsenal faced Swiss side Grasshoppers away, winning 2-0 with goals from George Graham and Ray Kennedy. Back at Highbury, goals from Charlie George, Ray Kennedy and John Radford gave Arsenal a 3-0 win on the night, 5-0 on aggregate, which set up a quarter final tie against reigning European Champions Ajax the following March.

Throughout this footage of the first leg in Amsterdam, ITV commentator Brian Moore’s pronunciation of the opposition sounds like a product placement for a certain bathroom detergent. Arsenal took the lead with a goal from Ray Kennedy after fifteen minutes, however Ajax drew level with a goal from Gerrie Muhren, the older brother of former Ipswich and Man Utd midfielder Arnold, ten minutes later. Muhren would strike again with seventieth minutes penalty in the second half to inflict a 1-2 defeat on Arsenal. The away goal in their favour meant that Arsenal may have fancied their chances back at Highbury, however 0-1 defeat arising from a George Graham own goal put paid to Arsenal’s European Cup hopes.

Arsenal failed to qualify for Europe for the 1972/73 season and despite finishing runners up in the League in 1972/73, still didn’t qualify that year either. The running of the Fairs Cup was now taken over by UEFA and renamed as the UEFA Cup. The European governing body had dropped the Fairs Cup rule of one team per city, however the Football League decided on retaining the rule. That season Spurs won the Football League Cup, which the Football authorities wished to promote the importance of. As a result Spurs competed in Europe ahead of Arsenal and the blog of long time Gooner contributor Phil Wall shows the club’s reaction in their official programme at the start of the 1973/74 season. However, though Arsenal and their fans were indignant, unlike the events of 1919, it’s not something we’ve milked for the best part of a century.

The ‘One City, One Club’ rule had been a particular bugbear for Everton who often lost out to Liverpool. In 1975/76 the Toffees successfully challenged the rule, however Arsenal wouldn’t qualify for Europe again until the 1978/79 season in the UEFA Cup, drawn against East German side Lokomotive Leipzig in the First Round, winning 3-0 at Highbury with goals from Alan Sunderland and two for Alan Sunderland and an emphatic 4-1 victory in the away leg with goals from Liam Brady, Alan Sunderland and two for Frank Stapleton. In the second round Arsenal were drawn against Yugoslav side Hadjuk Split, losing 1-2 away with a vital away goal scored by Liam Brady. Back at Highbury a Willie Young goal was enough to take Arsenal through to next round on away goals with a 1-0 win. In the third round Arsenal were to visit Yugoslavia again, this time against Red Star Belgrade, losing 0-1 away.

Back at Highbury, Arsenal could only manage a 1-1 draw with a goal from Alan Sunderland, meaning that the Gunners would be eliminated. Red Star however progressed all the way to the final, though losing to Borussia Mönchengladbach. Lining up for Red Star had been future Arsenal star Vladimir Petrovic, who joined Arsenal from Red Star in January 1983. Arsenal returned to Europe the following season after winning the FA Cup, facing Turkish side Fenerbahçe in the first round winning 2-0 at Highbury with goals from Alan Sunderland and Willie Young, with a 0-0 draw in the away leg. In the second round Arsenal faced East German side FC Magdeburg at Highbury, winning 2-1 with goals from Alan Sunderland and Willie Young. In the away leg Arsenal scraped through with a 2-2 draw with goals for Liam Brady and David Price.

In the Quarter Final, Arsenal would meet Swedish side IFK Göteborg in March, going a goal behind however running out 5-1 winners with goals from Liam Brady, David Price, Willie Young and two for Alan Sunderland. A 0-0 draw in the Second leg secured Arsenal passage through to a mouth-watering Semi Final against Juventus. The home leg came just forty eight hours after Arsenal played Spurs at White Hart Lane on Easter Monday and managed a 1-1 draw with the Italians. Juve took the lead through Cabrini scoring from a rebound after Pat Jennings saved the initial penalty. Juve, however, were later reduced to ten men after Marco Tardelli had taken out Liam Brady. Arsenal, though, equalised with five minutes left as Battega put through his own net. Juve’s away goal meant that Arsenal required an away victory in Turin, where no side had beaten Juventus in Europe for over a decade. Arsenal however eventually broke the deadlock after 88 minutes with a goal from Paul Vaessen which gave Arsenal a 1-0 victory which stunned 66,000 Italians into deafening silence.

Considering Arsenal went on to play a record seventy game season that term, which included Ron Atkinson’s West Brom just three days later and an ongoing saga with Liverpool in the FA Cup Semi Final, which went to three replays, it’s surprising from a modern perspective that Terry Neill, in an interview with Les Crang for Online Gooner in February 2013, allowed the Arsenal players to let their hair down to such an extent, stating: ‘I remember sitting with the players until 3.30 a.m…I came down the next morning, and some of the players were still there. Not drinking beer, they’d moved onto the wine. The expensive stuff too. On my bill. But look, they bloody deserved it’. As the season wore on however, the Arsenal side were dead on their feet.

In the final Arsenal faced a Valencia side who boasted Argentine World Cup winner Mario Kempes, but, in all, a much weaker side than the Juventus team Arsenal had disposed of in the Semi-Final. The final went all the way to a penalty shoot-out, when Liam Brady had failed to capitalise on Jennings’s save from Kempes, missing from the spot. All other penalty takers from both sides had converted, taking the shoot-out all the way to sudden death, until Graham Rix had missed the deciding penalty at 4-5 to Valencia. Even after the Cup Winners Cup Final there were two further League fixtures to satisfy, in which Arsenal needed full points from both to qualify from Europe. Arsenal lay in fourth place after 40 matches, which in any other season would have meant qualification for Europe however due to UEFA co-efficient rankings only three berths were available to English sides in the UEFA Cup for the 1980/81 season, which meant that fourth was simply not good enough this term.

Though English sides practically owned the European Cup during the late '70s and early '80s, their performances in the UEFA Cup itself were not so dominating during this very period. Three points above Arsenal in third place were Ipswich Town and under the two-points-for-a-win system Arsenal needed to win both to overhaul them for a place in the UEFA Cup. Arsenal sadly only managed two points, beating Wolves 2-1 just forty eight hours after losing to Valencia but hammered 0-5 away to Middlesbrough at Ayresome Park. Arsenal were to finish third in 1980/81 however, which did mean qualification to the UEFA Cup. Their first round draw brought Greek side Panathinaikos and a 2-0 win for the Gunners in Greece with goals from Brian McDermott and Raphael Meade marking his debut with a strike.

In the second round Arsenal would face part-timers from the Belgian side of Winterslag, who in the first leg surprised the Gunners by inflicting a shock 0-1 defeat (@0.14) . This Thames News footage shows the Winterslag squad preparing for the Second leg in a training session on the Highbury pitch. Even worse was to befall Arsenal at Highbury with the Gunners going a goal down, with the Belgian side almost adding a second by hitting the bar. Terry Neill recalls the reaction of the Arsenal fans in his 2013 interview with Les Crang, stating: ‘Winterslag? S**t team. S**t Pitch. S**t game. I remember the game as the barracking was constant. Right behind the dugout I could hear them. So I think - I’ll tell 'em to get behind the team. I come out the dugout, and half a brick hits me on the head. Terry looks up and an Arsenal fan shouts ‘F**k off you Irish c**t, get 'em playing… I was an idiot for doing it and trying to calm them’.

Arsenal pulled goals back, with an excellent free kick from John Hollins and one from Graham Rix, however substitute Willie Young had put the ball in the Winterslag net on three occasions only for each to be disallowed and a 2-1 win wasn’t enough to prevent Arsenal crashing out of the UEFA Cup on away goals with The Times remarking: ‘Now is the Winterslag of Arsenal’s discontent’. Arsenal however finished fifth in the League and were granted another pop at the UEFA Cup the following season, however this time failed to make it beyond the first round. Arsenal were drawn against Spartak Moscow and lost a two goal lead in the away leg in Russia to lose 2-3, with Lee Chapman and Stewart Robson on target for the Gunners. Though Arsenal came back to Highbury with two away goals, the Russian side inflicted the heaviest home loss dished out to an English side in Europe. Though Brian McDermott and Lee Chapman were on target for the Gunners.

The BBC owned the rights to the tie and demanded £180,000 from Russian state TV for coverage, who baulked at the fess as they had only paid £300,000 for all fifty games at that year’s World Cup in Spain a couple of months prior. Muscovites were unable to watch the tie as a result, however it is doubtful whether any footage of this fixture was ever captured by the BBC (certainly none is available via any of the video sharing site aside from this collection of stills on YouTube. Spartak raced into a four goal lead back at Highbury, before Brian McDermott pulled one back for Arsenal, before Spartak added a fifth. Lee Chapman pulled one back before the final whistle, with the final result of a 2-5 defeat for the Gunners, but a standing ovation for Spartak from the Highbury crowd at full time.

That match would be Arsenal’s last in Europe for another nine years. Arsenal finished the 1982/83 season trophy-less and in tenth position in the league, meaning that European qualification would be missed, as it was in 1983/84 with Arsenal finishing sixth and seventh in 1984/85, the latter however would be an irrelevance as Heysel had meant that English clubs would be banned from Europe and an Arsenal rebirth at the end of the decade meant that the new breed under George Graham would be denied the chance to pit their wits against Europe’s finest until the dawn of the reintroduction of English clubs in the early 1990s.

*Follow me on Twitter@robert_exley


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51
comments

  1. jeff wright

    Nov 28, 2015, 16:05 #79889

    Dear Jamie is a serial imposter and also in the past moaned about the admin on here so you could be right Bard he ticks all of the boxes. ... Wenger has to claim that Leicester can win the league mbg otherwise his own run of results at one time in the season can't also be claimed a title challenge.He is not fooling anyone though other than the AKB's who are anyway the least knowledgeable supporters in world football.

  2. Bard

    Nov 28, 2015, 15:05 #79888

    Jeff; my money is on Jamerson. Colseyboysetc has disowned it.

  3. mbg

    Nov 28, 2015, 14:48 #79887

    jw, Leister can win the league, (patronising old fraud) he never misses an opportunity to try to cover up his failings, i'd love to see his face if they did, I bet he'd have changed his tune, you can just hear the excuses and whinging from him now as to why he didn't, and how Leister got the rubs of the green and helped along the way by the dark forces at work, you'd never hear the fooking end of it, and that's just OGL, imagine the AKB wengerites ? i'd love it.

  4. jeff wright

    Nov 28, 2015, 11:31 #79879

    Yes Bard , Ozil must have found things much easier at Real Madrid when he had Ronaldo to pick out than he does with our forwards..... This late night imposter who posts his constant mantra of, no one is allowed to criticize Arsene, with it pathetically dressed up by the cretin to try and pretend he means Arsenal, seems unaware of the irony involved when he accuses other of trolling on here! Then again he doesn't come over as being the sharpest knife in the draw. You couldn't make it up.

  5. Bard

    Nov 28, 2015, 9:19 #79875

    My word we are awash with impostors on the site. There is something sad about dressing up as someone else. Good debate. The boss is being disingenuous about Ozil. We bought him in a panic after the Villa debacle allied to the fact that RM wanted shot of him. Is he worth £42m? Not yet. He's still only a flat track bully. I need to see hime dismantle a top side to be convinced he is as good as some think. He is better than last season. Its just as Jeff said the team unfortunately arent. I have posted before Ozil would be better if he had a better striker ahead of him.

  6. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2015, 23:39 #79872

    Yes mbg ,Colseyboy,Problem boy aka Th14 AFC ( you sure couldn't make that up!) and co keep talking up players who are in reality just producing overall mediocre results season after season in Europe and in the league no matter what goals or assists that they make because in the final analysis there is no improvement in these results or end product.All of this market value nonsense is just more Ivan and Stan spin .The only market value that Stan wants is to keep his share prices high and to asset strip AFC of 3m a year to put into his own pocket .Many would prefer that this cash and the hoarded millions was instead spent on improving the squad overall so it can compete in Europe and for the Prem title. Rather than just a couple of marquee type signings made to just keep things ticking over as they ALREADY WERE . The Ozil and Sanchez signings were paid for anyway by money made by selling other players and from the constant but pointless Champions League group stages ,pointless because we never have a squad or a manager who can compete realistically in Europe to win it . Or to even manage a title challenge either,Wenger was at it today trying to claim that Leicester can win the title! However Ranieri said that Wenger was talking nonsense, ADDING THAT HE WOULD THINK ABOUT THAT WITH 7 GAMES LEFT IF Leicester WERE STILL TOP. Ran admitted that he was aiming for 40 points and league saftey . Wenger should also own up to what he is aiming for.Wenger talking nonsense though is nothing unusual is it,in fact it is just the norm.

  7. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 22:47 #79871

    jw,84543, another good one, your on form tonight, these points/facts just keep flying (very conveniently) over the AKB's heads, and they cant use the excuse anymore that he needs time to acclimatise and bed in. You couldn't make it up.

  8. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 22:35 #79870

    Hiccup, I got to the end, i turned my lap top upside down, and it made more sense.

  9. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 22:07 #79869

    I hope if it all goes pear shaped with another embarrassment against the mighty canaries the usual excuse makers don't cite fatigue again, OGL and his little dwarfs are only going to be on the plane for 13 minutes, unless altitude sickness sets in again, it wouldn't be a surprise, you couldn't make it up.

  10. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2015, 21:50 #79868

    No I said our squad is not good enough Colesyboy. If you read it properly.Signing those pair has made no difference to our results or position .Ozil was supposed to have taken us to another level remember,clunk! Sanchez is running himself ragged trying to improve things,but the poor results just keep right on a coming like unwanted junk mail through a letterbox. As I said before Colelsyboy results are what signings are judged by and not the price-tag they come with attached to them. Results have not improved so obviously the manager is not doing his job properly unless his finishing in a minor top 4 place and winning two FA Cups over the last 11 seasons is considered to be a success.All seems a bit petty change like though considering the money spent on buying Ozil and Sanchez is not showing any signs of improving on this.In fact Wenger will probably struggle this season to match the last two seasons,'success'. You couldn't make it up.

  11. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 27, 2015, 21:32 #79867

    So jeff, you don't think Ozil is very good, nor Alexis?

  12. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2015, 20:58 #79866

    What exactly is market value anyway >? Surely the only value that can be evaluated regarding a player signed for big money and on big wages is if he makes a difference to results . Ozil fails miserably on that count because the team is no better than it was before he joined in the league and in Europe - even worse actually because we have just suffered the worst result in Europe in AFC history - and have done and still are n struggling to get out of the group stage with Ozil in the side and this with us in the last two seasons being in the easiest group of all the Prem sides in Europe. We have less points on the board in the Prem than we did at this stage of events last November and we were no better last season at this time than the season before ,so can someone point out where the improvement is? Same goes also for Sanchez he keeps hitting flat spots scoring in short bursts for a few games then disappearing like a flight of P.47's straying into the Bermuda Triangle for 8 or 9 games. It's most likely down to Wenger over using him this lack of consistency and him having to keep jetting off to South America and back to play in Internationals. Other managers spread the work load around more among their squad and give players a rest .Wenger's problem is that when he tries it we get Zagreb away and Olympiacos at home Sheff Wednesday type results - because our squad - that good old Arsene cobbled together - is not good enough even against ordinary sides...... Our fixtures in December with the desperation last gasp away tete a tete in Athens included and that fracas possibly impacting on our visit to struggling Villa 3 days afterwards plus a string of tough looking games up to and past the festive season that include City at home then Southampton away with 3 dodgy games in a row in January ,Liverpool away,Stoke away,Chelsea home...looks a ball breaker a couple of games at home before those last trio against Bournemouth and Newcastle should keep the ola ! crowd happy though at the coliseum -if they are still happy at the end of January remains to be seen. If not then the market value of our players will have taken another knock. It is a results game after all.

  13. jjetplane

    Nov 27, 2015, 20:57 #79865

    I got to Arthur and ALSACE needs his lawyer on this. Nip it in the bud now!

  14. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 20:33 #79864

    jw, 84506, good post, indeed we're no further on, further off more like, after all this time, after having such a great opportunity to push on and become a player (after been told/spun that's what we were going to do) instead of allowing a manager who thought he was God to indulge himself in pet projects and failings at our expense, and that's what TOF will be remembered for and never be forgiven for, the regression. As your self and a lot of others have said the ropey is our level alright, but you know something and this has been touched on on here many a time to, under this old fraud we'd probably cock it up too and regress in further.

  15. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 19:43 #79860

    Colseyboy, your a fine one to talk, I did read the full statement, of course there's no such bargains as Viera now that's the point, why use him as an example now only to try have some think (the gullible)that's the type he players he's looking for, and when the evitable happens and we don't get/come up with one, anyone, he'll have the perfect excuse. As for Ozil he was using him as spending money, a bargain? no matter who bought him, he's yet to prove that and he's had plenty of time to do so, no matter what others said at the time and still do.

  16. Hiccup

    Nov 27, 2015, 19:39 #79859

    Arseneknewbest. You actually read through all of that post? Hats off to you. i got to to the end of the second sentence and thought I'd done well getting that far!

  17. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 18:54 #79858

    Platitude, Coldsoreboy, or whoever you are today, and have become one of these intellectuals who've suddenly found the need to repeat the post your raving about to try and get your point across (it's really not necessary you know), if that's what you call swapping blows you must have been a bullies best friend at school, i'd imagine and by the sounds of it, and what is in other history books and reported about that night it was real fisticuffs between real men, not handbags at ten paces with a bit of tie flicking between a failed Frenchman, failed Englishman and a portugeezer called maureen with more CL medals than the two of them put together.

  18. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 27, 2015, 18:45 #79857

    Badarse - I was enjoying your badinage with Nick. I was 6 at the time,so a night at THOF was out of the question. But then you pour a cold bucket of sick on it with that incoherent mess. Do you never self-edit? Or even read that stuff back and cringe with embarrassment. That's why you're easy to button-hole as a geriatric sub-Cyril Fletcher bloviator. Norwich away this weekend - I hope your figurative pencil is sharp. Whatever happens, win, lose or draw, don't use the f-word (fatigue) or you might combust spontaneously.

  19. Badarse

    Nov 27, 2015, 18:14 #79856

    Arthur Webster looked up at the night sky-his upper dentures promptly fell out of his mouth. 'Sacre rouge!' he exclaimed in mint condition Arkley dialect, all due to Steradent. He quickly turned around like a circle in a spiral on an ever-spinning wheel, rushed out of the back door and fell over the cat. 'Sacre rouge et blanc!' he muttered, which came in short gasps and even shorter trousers. 'Our Fred-it's the Vat signal. Commissioner Gordon Bennett needs me. Get my toiletry belt!' Our Fred grinned a little sheepishly, sometimes he coughed a bit hoarsely, and on other occasions he stretched somewhat giraffe-like, but he got the belt. It was an early Xmas present from two groupie admirers, jeff and mbg. 'To the Vat Cavern.' insisted Arthur, which was named in honour of his boyhood band, Les Beatles. Donning his outfit Arthur emerged from the porta loo nearby and leapt into the car, he immediately bounced back out again. 'Our Fred, I asked you to adjust the ejector seat!' Our Fred, dapper in his butler outfit, apologised. Arthur could only say, 'Ooh, I hate you butler!', as he carefully inserted himself behind the wheel-he knew it was against the law but loved the feeling. Vatman sped away to HQ, to help Gordon, aka Stan. He rushed at the office headlong, an unusual doorman with a long head. Gordon aka Stan said that the customs and excise men were making things difficult over a mystery payment. Vatman knew that visits from Customs could be bad habits, and immediately 'Biffed, Powed, and Zowied', himself before their very eyes. 'It is the leaking roof mes amis.' May and Sammy nodded sagely. Crisis over. Josh stood joshing in the corner, and I think Mister Friar had something going on with Sir Chips-but that's perhaps best left unsaid. Vatman would have saved the day, but for it being night.

  20. Nick

    Nov 27, 2015, 18:02 #79855

    Badarse you may well have stood next to me, I would have been the impossibly good looking young fella, trying to blow the ball out.of our goal, I also remember the look.of sheer fear on the Ajax fans faces as sections of the North Bank howled savagely at them, it was obviously a new experience for them, oh to think what might have been, Bobs stays on his lins, Peter slots the chance home, the away goal would have seen us through, I think although its.impossible to say, that we could well have won the European cup had we progressed, but we did see the emergence of a truly great side and a superb talent that night

  21. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:51 #79854

    Coleslaw - 84521 - Err, mate several clubs in the premier league aren't PLCs. Chelski, Citeh and Liverpool among them. They are run and owned by single benefactors and are not publically limited. While that model isn't exactly wholesome either, it is an important distinction. You've also got the German model which, as fans, I think we can all agree is far superior to PLCs or personal fiefdoms.

  22. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:46 #79853

    I know who got the best of the deal for Ozil at 42m. Madrid used the money to help buy Bale and he helped them win the Champions League. We would do well to get 24m for Ozil if we put him up for sale so how can he have been a bargain. A couple of FA Cup wins in which he performed moderately is not much for 42m and his wages - he has done nothing of note in Europe either- in which as I recall he was supposed to take us to another level! The reality is we look worse now in Europe than before he joined us. He looks good making assists against modest Prem sides - but as Real Madrid learned he goes AWOL against top opposition. You couldn't make it up.

  23. Badarse

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:35 #79852

    Nick, that was you! I must have stood next to you pal. I remember Stroller getting to the ball, it looped up and I could see it's trajectory-the ball was going in, (you must have seen it too), as it dropped towards the unguarded net, with Willow stranded. It all happened in slow motion and is still doing so in my mind now as I replay it. Ditto with Marinello's miss. He still regrets it and is firmly convinced that had he scored we would have won the game. How odd our minds are-don't place too much on that buddy, ha ha. Tiny slithers of time, frozen, locked away, only to emerge when a buzz word or spiel is mentioned. Another thank you is due Robert, good man. Brothers in arms Nick, brothers in arms.

  24. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:23 #79851

    Context is a wonderful way of using it to suit your stance. Read the full statement and he says about Paddy, there are no such bargains nowadays. Ozil was a bargain at £42m, he also states. All relevant to the current market forces.

  25. Nick

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:16 #79850

    Stood in the North Bank centrally just above the goal, I remember watching in despair as George Grahams headed back.pass looped over Bob Wilson and slowly trickled into.the net, I also recall the Dutch supporters who were almost to a man.dressed in long white coats, and of course Marinellos miss at the clock end, though from.where I stood it probably didn't appear as glaring a miss as it was

  26. jjetplane

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:12 #79849

    '.... said the ostrich to the thug/there's too much confusion/I can't get no trophies .....

  27. Arseneknewbest

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:06 #79848

    Cruyff looks a bit like Rodney from "Only Fools 'n' 'orses" n that pic. Great player though.

  28. Gaz

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:04 #79847

    Yes our euro record is kind of appalling for a Club of our size and stature. Sadly we always seem to be in the wrong place at the wrong time! I mean if there were Euro competitions in the thirties I'm convinced we'd have won it and we'd have become an even bigger player than we currently are (probably similar in size or bigger than Real Madrid!). Then there's the eighties where GG was denied European competition for five years. Who's to say without that his record in Europe would have been even better than it was? He was certainly far better tactically than Wenger and I'm convinced he'd have found a way of winning us a UEFA Cup at least to go alongside his ECWC triumph. As it is I reckon that whilst its now seen as common knowledge that Wenger took this Club and put it on the map in terms of being a really big player (obviously I never totally agree with that notion!) I reckon it'll take another manager and a good few years before this Club is picked up again and dropped onto the map of really big European players. It certainly won't happen under Wenger who's had a mountain of chances to get it right yet will leave us with a euro record that's sadly piss poor...

  29. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 17:00 #79846

    So TOF is ready to splash the cash (where have we heard that before)but before the usual suspects start getting moist he insists only if he can find the right qualitee at the right price (so we all know what his excuse is going to be yet again when he doesn't buy anyone)and not just the right price mind, but bargain price, if that's not sticking two fingers up at fans nothing is. He goes on to say only top qualitee strengthens our squad, who is this old fraud trying to kid ? himself ? does he think fans actually believe that ? (sorry silly question) you couldn't make it up, he cites Viera as an example of a £2.5 mil top qualitee bargain, (so that's the price we can expect TOF to pay for a player/players then if any) talk about living in the past and out of touch with reality, and he expects fans to believe and swallow that crap ? (no doubt the usual lambs and followers will) what a fraud, completely out of touch with reality, the mans ill.

  30. goonercolesyboy

    Nov 27, 2015, 16:52 #79845

    "Arsenal use to be a football club but are now a Plc ". So in the world of football, how many clubs are not run as a Plc?

  31. Westlower

    Nov 27, 2015, 16:31 #79844

    Ode from OT tunnel, 24 Oct 2004: There must be some kind of way out of here, said the joker to the thug. There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief. No reason to get excited, the thug he kindly spoke. There are many here among us, who feel that life is but a joke. But you and I we've been through that, and this is not our fate. So let us stop talking falsely now, the hour's getting late. All along the watchtower......

  32. Ron

    Nov 27, 2015, 16:18 #79842

    Hi Tony - it is that simple isnt it. European football is more cerebral, more technical and tactically based and they are better at it. We ve improved on these aspects at PL level generally as a result of the inflow of foreign players, but in truth there's a big broad dollop of kick, rush, hump it and lung bust mentality in football here and little sign it ll ever be any different. Credit to Wenger at Arsenal he and the Club have made sterling efforts to depart from the traditional' British way'. I think a better Coach holding the reigns of Wengers best teams of 2001 - 04 would have cracked Europe. Baddie - AFc record is awful in Europe. You can dress it up what might have been as much as you choose of course, but you have to look at the performances not just the outcomes. On yr point of only half a dozen teams justifying entry to the CL, its as good as a half dozen team tourney anyway. its being kind to say that half dozen teams are in it to win it. In truth, there are 3 maybe 4. The entire rump of other teams in it are in it for the cash and know they cant win it barring a miracle. What sort of 'competition' is that? Its rather an insult to the fans intelligence really, but the hype of it keeps the CL charabanc on the road for those who still want it.

  33. Hiccup

    Nov 27, 2015, 15:10 #79839

    Sunday's game at Norwich is looking doubtful to start with a recognised referee. Arsenal have submitted their list of 6 unapproved referees to the FA, which incidentally now includes Clattenburg. Although Norwich have only submitted a form with 3 refs they don't want to officiate, there doesn't look to be enough available refs. Arsenal fans want to see Steve Bould step in and officiate, but with Norwich being the home team, they will have the final say. Billy Tarquin, the Norwich kit man, looks likely to be chosen.

  34. jjetplane

    Nov 27, 2015, 15:04 #79838

    Can understand Fergie as I would not want to tangle with an ostrich in a confined space either ....

  35. Westlower

    Nov 27, 2015, 14:07 #79837

    @Platitude Problem, You underestimate Wenger's temper as the story goes that he offered Fergie a fist fight in the tunnel at OT. The Glaswegian bully boy sh*t himself apparently!

  36. Bard

    Nov 27, 2015, 13:54 #79835

    The arguments about the CL are fairly academic. We have no chance of winning it or even getting close and have no intention of trying to win it. Qualification just brings in a few bucks thats the sum total of our ambition. Arsenal used to be football club as Robert reminds us but its a plc now.

  37. Platitude Problem

    Nov 27, 2015, 13:54 #79834

    'We can just/only imagine TOF swapping blows with his opposite number' - yeah imagine Wenger coming to blows with someone like Alan Pardew or Jose Mourinho. That would never happen, would it?

  38. Goodbottom

    Nov 27, 2015, 13:52 #79833

    @Post No. 84505. Even Arsene Wenger would point at you and laugh and accuse you of putting such a ridiculously positive spin on Arsenal's awful European success story of winning two and losing four finals because it makes his infamous "4th place trophy" quote positively credible in comparison.

  39. Badarse

    Nov 27, 2015, 13:44 #79832

    I don't want to burst anyone's bubble but I have a big prick at the ready. If we have only ever been in the EC class it offers a conundrum. Who should be in the CL? Now avoid the obvious which is only Champions, but with a dismissive and negative attitude based upon a subjective and individual narrow view, then surely champions of smaller nations do not merit a place either. That is based on 'standard', as perceived by an individual. Which is tosh, and isn't valid beyond having a dig at the Arsenal. If we play the 'reductionism' game, which is omnipresent with some posters, then a CL Tournament should only really have perhaps half a dozen entrants. As I said John, tosh, 'ack it.

  40. mbg

    Nov 27, 2015, 13:33 #79831

    We can just/only imagine TOF swapping blows with his opposite number, (he'd rather just complain and make excuses) anywhere let alone a restaurant, unless it was with the chippy owner while arguing over the price of the Cod and chips.

  41. jeff wright

    Nov 27, 2015, 13:31 #79830

    There is one thing that can't be disputed and that it is a fact that Wenger after 20 years in charge at AFC is further away than ever from winning the big eared jug that he craves to win. Wenger's got two big problems in Europe,one he lacks any real tactical nous and so when he did have a team capable of winning the European Cup or Uefa one he failed to do so in two finals. Since the move from Highbury Wenger's sides have in reality have only been Europa Cup class with none ever finishing in the top two in the Prem proving so. The current one is no exception so it makes sense that in theory Wenger has more hope of winning the Ropey Cup than the Champions one . The money and perceived prestige of playing in the Champions League though is more important,as is qualifying for it every season,this would get priority over trying to win the Europa Cup should we end up in it this season. No big mystery really why Wenger has failed in Europe and why he will carry on doing so.

  42. Badarse

    Nov 27, 2015, 13:28 #79829

    Think success is a fickle mistress. Am not going into the odds of winning a tournament but there is a consideration of 'probability'. Two identically matched teams may play nine finals against each other and one would therefore win more than the other. 'Why did we only win four, how come they won five?' It happens! There is no such thing as divine right. Yes we have won two but have come perilously close to winning six; would that stat change POVs? Be glad we have achieved the sum outcome, rather than mope about what might have been, gentlemen.

  43. Tony Evans

    Nov 27, 2015, 12:55 #79827

    Have to agree with all the comments on Arsenal's lamentable European record. 1970 and 1994 are the only bright spots amongst a litany of failure. For a club so successful domestically why do we fare so badly in Europe? Maybe the catalogue of failure weighs heavily on the team and the belief just isn't there? I just don't know but probably the painful truth is that those 'Johnny Foreigners' are just better than we are!

  44. Wear Your Colours

    Nov 27, 2015, 12:08 #79825

    Some painful memories from the early eighties. The game against Valencia should have been a pinnacle for Terry Neill's team. Jennings, O'Leary, Brady and Stapleton in their prime were, arguably, as good a spine as any that the Gunners have had. Valencia did little to merit a win that night. Also, a good reminder of the class of many Gooners fans; I was their on the clock-end giving Spartak Moscow a standing ovation after they absolutley tore-us apart that night in 1983. It's a genorosity that still persists. I recall waiting with many others at Emirates to aplaud Hull City from the field in Autumn 2008 after they beat us 2-1 in their debut season in the top flight.

  45. Ron

    Nov 27, 2015, 11:23 #79823

    SKG - Yes, i agree with you totally. It was an abysmal performance that night.Arsenals players have, save for odd stellar night here and there, always looked like a men palying for a Club totally shorn of any belief or confidence when playing in European games. In today's CL though, the annual scrape and dalliance in it is considered European 'success'. Its frankly a joke. I personally switched off from any real interest in it some years ago. I just cant sign up to the charade and dishonesty of it all.

  46. Bard

    Nov 27, 2015, 11:21 #79822

    Great stuff Robert.Heady nights indeed. Ron I agree wholeheartedly with our Euro history. At present we still are an irrelevant footnote in terms of the CL and are further away from challenging than we were in the best days of Wenger. What this campaign has shown is how poor we are tactically and mentally. At the very least we should be difficult to beat, capable of a big upset or two. A well organised team who work hard will always fancy their chances against us. Youre right the euro league will be the way forward eventually.

  47. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 27, 2015, 11:15 #79821

    Ron : The game for me, that epitomizes Arsenal in Europe was the EUFA cup final in 2000. So many missed chances and the farcical penalty shoot out, it was a night when our star players just could not deliver, it was worse than the Nayim final!I rated that as our worst night ever in football, due also to the fact that there was serious crowd trouble before the match - horrible night.

  48. Jamie

    Nov 27, 2015, 11:10 #79820

    Just a quick amendment or two to this thorough article, Robert. For the first leg of the Lokomotive Leipzig tie in 1978, you've got the scorers as "...Alan Sunderland and two for Alan Sunderland" Also, concerning the infamous Winterslag game, Neill was hit with a chunk of brick in the first leg. It was also the first leg in which Willie Young had three goals disallowed. For the return, he was sat (not in the tiny dugout) with the substitutes throughout.

  49. Ron

    Nov 27, 2015, 10:55 #79818

    Nice article again Robert. It has to be said that for a Club of Arsenals age and stature in domestic football, the Clubs European record is poor to say the least. The broader perception amongst many of our fans is quite rightly that AFC have never really sought a European pedigree of any note. Given the times we ve won the FAC and the consistency of the Club in being in the upper echelons of the league enough so to get into UEFA Cup places historically, at least a UEFA Cup and/or ECWC or two more ought to have been bagged. In modern euro footie context its hard to conceive of Arsenal ever winning the ECL. The Clubs role and involvement in it has become tedious and if not yet embarrassing, its getting close to it. We are make-weights in it (in fairness as are most other Clubs). For me, the Club needs to embrace the EL if we end up in it. We are a EL Club in reality, though we know that the ill conceived 'snobbery' thats ingrained in the Club towards the EL will mean we wont make any great effort in it. A big mistake in my view. We should at least try and free ourselves from the jibes and barbs that are rightfully always thrown at us about our poor euro record by Spurs and now Chelsea supporters too.

  50. Tony Evans

    Nov 27, 2015, 10:05 #79817

    Thanks Robert - Paul Vaessen's goal was unbelievable and to end up trophy less after such amazing semi-final heroics in two competitions must rank as one of the all time Arsenal lows.

  51. Badarse

    Nov 27, 2015, 8:26 #79815

    Thank you once more Robert. Went to see 'Suffragette' yesterday. Only expected it to be a six out of ten film but was pleasantly surprised to see it as a seven plus-some fine acting. Saudi women to vote for the first time soon-how fast the world spins, and the heads of the WOBs. For jj: His team's last nine goals, Charlie has scored three, assisted with five and made the ninth with a delicious carry and dink. His three goals attracted one assist-a headed goal, the other two he won the ball, took it on and fired past the respective keepers. Be careful chum, you may be paying a fiver to watch him in a handful of years.