It’s déjà vu all over again

Reflection on the state of Arsenal after a poor November



It’s déjà vu all over again

‘Sir Frites’ – What does he do?


There can be few Arsenal supporters who were surprised at the manner of our tame surrender of two points at Carrow Road on Sunday. We saw the slow start, the exercise of some measure of control, the scoring of a goal, which was then followed by an outbreak of what appeared to be general lethargy and complacency. Think West Brom. Think any number of games. At least, thanks to the ex-Chelsea reserve keeper, we did not lose all three points.

The real question is why? A lack of on field leadership has to be part of it. By leadership, I do not mean the manic flapping of arms in the general direction of colleagues as practiced by Flamini, a man who increasingly seems to need the aid of a SatNav to find his bearings in midfield, but someone who continually reminds players of their responsibilities. Why do we not stop the opposition getting crosses in? Surely, the art of closing down is not a lost skill. Other teams seem to manage to do that pretty well against us. The service to Giroud was certainly not good on Sunday but shouldn’t he be trying to make bad balls into good ones rather than going through his entire repertoire of Gallic shrugs and imprecations and generally appearing to wish he was anywhere but playing for Arsenal in Norwich on the last Sunday in November?

Not surprisingly, there was a lot of moaning and expressions of frustration from the travelling Gooners as we shuffled away from the ground on Sunday, and the generally negative theme was continued on 606, which I listened to on the return journey. There were two points that caught my attention.

Firstly, there were the efforts of Ian Wright to balance his obvious affection for Arsenal and for Wenger with, I thought, his equally obvious agreement with several of the less than positive points made by those Arsenal supporters phoning in.

Then, there were the comments made by Chelsea and Spurs fans to the effect that we Gooners have nothing really to complain about – regular top four finishes, Champions League final appearance, FA Cup victories etc etc so what’s the problem?

That set me thinking. Are we really just a bunch of whingeing toe rags with an over-developed sense of entitlement or are we right to question the direction and strategy of the Club?

There is an element of misplaced entitlement that is common to all football fans of the so called Big Clubs in the Premier League and we Gooners are not totally immune from this. However, we are right to call out the fact that we are not using our resources to the full because of what are pretty obvious shortcomings in how the Club is run and the fact that the controlling owner’s strategy does not appear to involve making a whole-hearted attempt to create a team that can mount a realistic title challenge for an entire season.

There are two main resources that remain under-utilised. The first is cash. I do not know that the whole £193m is available to spend on the squad, probably not, but it’s pretty obvious that we won’t go bust by pursuing a less conservative acquisition policy to plug shortcomings in the squad, thereby bringing to an end the “make do and mend” transfer strategy that is such a cause of frustration. We all know the DM situation, the reliance on Coquelin who has had less than a full season of Premier League experience with the back up consisting of the perennially injured, the veteran, and the untried. Well, that’s come back to bite us, hasn’t it?

Then there is the gamble on Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, and Oxlade-Chamberlain remaining fit for an entire season, or, at least, one of them managing to do so. That really is a triumph of hope over experience.

That leads on to the second great underutilised resource, the genuinely class players such as Sanchez and Ozil, who we then render less effective by surrounding them with a number of lightweights, both physically and mentally. I cannot imagine that part of Wenger’s pitch to either of them was the prospect of playing with Joel Campbell. I really feel that I owe Wiltord and Edu an apology for my readily expressed disappointment whenever they appeared back in the day. What I wouldn’t give for players of their all round quality in the current squad.

So, if there is substance to the dissatisfaction of the fan base, who do we blame?

The Board? Sir Frites and Lord Carpets are directors because they bring to the Board the qualities of… good question. What do they offer? They are obviously fine chaps with impeccable table manners I am sure but what do they actually do? What Ivan G and Kroenke Junior don’t know about soccerball is obviously not worth knowing.

The point I am making in a rather heavy-handed manner is that there appears to be no effective challenge to Wenger. Who questions his policy and strategy? The Board and owner are insulated from taking hard decisions by the tsunami of broadcasting money which seems to render the financial benefits of a top four finish as no more than petty cash. Where is the incentive to go eyeballs out to create a truly competitive team?

I am sure that Wenger wants to win trophies but he seems unable to compromise his philosophy or principles or strategy, particularly his rather arbitrary assessment of a player’s market value, and he is under no internal pressure to do so. The fans do not count. In the eyes of the Board we are not “stakeholders” but expendable consumers, who, if we fell away, would be replaced in a heartbeat.

So, we shall go on complaining at wasted opportunities. Long standing fans such as myself (57 years and counting) will feel increasingly estranged as the current drift continues until we enter a post Wenger era and who knows what that will bring?

When it comes down to it, I suppose that I am suffering a crisis of faith. Can anyone out there give me reasons to keep on believing?


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88
comments

  1. mbg

    Dec 05, 2015, 21:40 #80284

    Alan Whiffin, great post, it was a terrible dilemma to be in for a fan, looking back was it worth it? of course it wasn't.

  2. Alan Whiffin

    Dec 05, 2015, 6:32 #80253

    The worst result we have had for years was beating Hull to win the cup,wasting another 3 years with Wenger. Shame Klopp is lost he would have been perfect.

  3. Alsace

    Dec 04, 2015, 17:50 #80234

    Mr Wenger is a gentleman. He would neither sleep with another man's wife nor willingly injure any person. It would not be Bon Chic Bon Genre. It would be .... unacceptable.

  4. mbg

    Dec 04, 2015, 13:58 #80215

    Alsace, good post, and as I've said myself on many occasions the AKB's would let TOF sleep with their wives (even drive them there) such is their devotion to him.

  5. John S

    Dec 04, 2015, 12:57 #80211

    Since the days of successfully turning a lightweight winger into the Worlds best player back in the Highbury days, Wenger seems obsessed with playing players out of position with the hope of unearthing some untapped genius, rather than fitting round pegs in round holes and playing to our strengths Is it any coincidence that Ozil is finally looking the player we were all so excited about signing in 2013 now that he is in a free role and isn't being forced to play wide left? Why does Jack Wilshere play so well for England in the DM position yet even before Coquelin was 'discovered' we were still playing Arteta there? The one player we didn't even try there who I thought ideal for the role once he lost his place in the defence was Tommy V but alas we will never know Theo has been campaigning for years to play down the middle without success, but he gets put there due to Alexis taking his wide right spot and injuries and suddenly he is a new player Even go back to the days of Arshavin and he was superb in the 'number 10' role but when a gifted, but lazy player got shoved out on the wing he lost his touch... I was not surprised I'm sure there are more examples I can't think of off the top of my head but my biggest frustration is that Klopp is now at Liverpool. I have never called for the Manager to be sacked / leave, and I don't boo the team, if someone tells me Wenger should go, I always ask 'Who would replace him?' as I think you should always be careful what you wish for. But I think Klopp would have been perfect (maybe easy to say with hindsight) for the job and it may be a while before the next person who fits the bill comes around

  6. Alsace

    Dec 04, 2015, 11:55 #80206

    I call a football fan's sense of (god given)ENTITLEMENT to great prizes as "Thousand Year Reich Syndrome". This is not the same thing as thinking that you support to a big club when in fact you don't, which is the Spurs fan's disease. No, Thousand Year Reich Syndrome is the privilege of the mancunian football fan, red or blue, Leeds or to some extent Liverpool. Liverpool are a big club. Leeds are not. Their fans have, through hardship, to a certain extent come to terms with being distant from the great prizes. Chelsea fans, the older ones at least, are so surprised to have had some success that they still value it closely and pray that it doesn't go away. Then there is us. The AKB's would see their loved ones tortured and then butchered to death (possibly even by OGL himself) rather than lose Wenger. They do not hunger for trophies. The rest of us, would be pleased if our club's resources were used optimally to ensure such success as is possible and feasible. We desire only that those resources not be misused and en-toileted by the incompetent. So Mr Nichols, be easy in your mind. What you wish is not unreasonable and your questions are valid.

  7. John Gage

    Dec 04, 2015, 1:07 #80199

    @Westlower: It is certainly true that injuries can happen randomly but in the case of Arsenal you have many players who are known to injury prone and have long and extensive injury records (Gibbs, Walcott, Wilshere, Rosicky, Arteta, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ramsay). At some point the manager has to make a decision about letting some of these players go and purchase or select players who do not possess such extensive injury records. I have criticized Wenger before for being excessively loyal to his players.

  8. Th14afc

    Dec 03, 2015, 19:39 #80192

    I put the recent bad results purely down to the injury crisis....normally I don't say we can hide behind the injuries but our first 11 can match anyone in this league and they were proving it before the injuries hit us harder than normal- but you take Alexis,carzola,coquelin,koscielny,Gibbs,Walcott,willshere,welbeck,rosicky out of any team and not only are you severely weakened but some of the back up subs who really come in handy at this time if season aren't available it's no surprise that arsenal are now struggling....I see December been a worse month than November for the same reason....even having the ox and Ramsey back last weekend wasn't too reassuring as they are both still not fully fit....hard times ahead

  9. mbg

    Dec 03, 2015, 18:51 #80189

    DJ, good post, players (the right players)can instil passion also, (and we don't have one of them at the club) but it's down mostly to the manager, as you've said Klopp has done just that (and has the fans buzzing again also) we have a manager not capable of doing that and never has been, the players certainly wouldn't run through anything for him, you just have to look at the way they turn their arses up at free kicks, does he tell them off ? or do anything about it? does he fook they know he's soft and only respect him for their fat contracts (where they wouldn't get or be worth at any other club in the prem)and not been dropped, take George Graham, the respect he had, and how many players would, and did, run through brick walls for him. Players is not the answer though, it doesn't matter who we buy if the manager isn't up to the job, and that's what we need more than anything a new manager. wenger out.

  10. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 18:36 #80188

    @Lou Smorrals, My losing runs coincide when Arsenal take the lead and go on to win, which happened this season until the trip to the Hawthorns & Carrow Road. The Invincible season was really painful but I was able to lose with a smile & a warm heart.

  11. mbg

    Dec 03, 2015, 17:57 #80185

    Bard, if we did manage to get some kind of a run out of TOF's perma crocks, and if someone then showed interest or we had a chance to sell he'd only refuse and hold onto them just to prove he knew better and was right, just for them to get injured again. wenger out.

  12. jjetplane

    Dec 03, 2015, 17:47 #80184

    No this is the worst and will it ever ****ing end! Bad Religion for those with a vacuum to fill .... Must say I am quite moved by Klopp's love for his players. The touchline love-in with Henderson brings the right romance back into the game. They look so happy while Webster's boys are either blinded by the clinic lights or in deep space/hibernation. Have they given lift-off to the Santi and Sanchez capsules where they can join the rest orbiting earth. Apparently one was found on a dead star with the initials AB scratched on it ....

  13. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 14:50 #80179

    @JJ Get yourself up to the Emirates, you never know you may enjoy it. Stop living in the past, life has moved on. You've seen plenty of Arsenal teams much worse than the present side, even in GG & Bertie's reign.

  14. jjetplane

    Dec 03, 2015, 14:23 #80178

    ha ha certainly know Holloway better than you ever will WEStiE the Tourist surrounded by Arsenal facts for easy reference. And some think you know your football! Lol! BOJanGLes - wonder if the Rev and his 'young/wayward guns' meet in the Highbury gardens where the pitch used to be only to be moved on by security.

  15. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 14:02 #80176

    Hiccup has ALL the answers. Come on Mr Sarcastic Supreme, reveal all? @JJ until you've been to the Emirates, shove it! @Lou Smorrals, What are loses miss?

  16. jjetplane

    Dec 03, 2015, 13:18 #80174

    Excellent post DJ! and the passion level in Wokworld is akin to a slow Sunday at Madame Tussauds. What you really notice about Klopp is how he has the players doing things that make other teams collapse with exhaustion and self-pity which then turns to mind injuries. Funny that it is Webster who is forever spouting on about mental speeerit (sic) and yet has turned the club into a poodle parlour of sorts. WEStiE - why would you be at the Emirates tomorrow? or indeed anyday? Least we know one thing. You are not as much into football as you to make out. Anyone hard from BOBOBO or has he returned to his HERD ..... 'said goodbye to the circus/off he went.....'

  17. Avenell Road

    Dec 03, 2015, 13:08 #80172

    The most important thing, for me, is that Wenger is not allowed to remain beyond his current contract. I noticed in the euphoric days following the Bayern home win that stories were surfacing that Wenger may be offered a new contract. Very good timing from a PR perspective but the man is clearly underperforming from what this club expects so it will be a positive day for all when he leaves. We as fans must guard against the contract extension

  18. DJ

    Dec 03, 2015, 12:51 #80171

    I don’t bother posting on here so often as like some on here I have lost a pit of my mojo with sameness of it all. However, I feel I must mention the ingredient Klopp has bought to Liverpool, PASSION! Our club desperately needs an injection of it. If we would have signed Fabregas last summer after winning out first trophy in a decade instead of letting him sign for our bitter rivals the club would have been on a high. If we had signed a top striker and defensive midfielder this summer instead of just a goalkeeper the support would have been buzzing. Our manager may be a financial genius but do you see our squad willing to die for him on the football pitch???? Our club has lost its passion and is reflected by its support and its team.

  19. Hiccup

    Dec 03, 2015, 12:42 #80170

    Hey guys, just when you thought you'd heard it all, along comes another pearl. So now it's the loan system that is flawed that's causing the problem. Westie is the Stock Aitken & Waterman of excuses. Churning out hit after hit, excuse after excuse. So just how is the loan system flawed? As bard says, we loan out players that aren't good enough to play for us, so such players get competitive playing time elsewhere. So far, it sounds good for arsenal. If every club that loaned out players could recall them with two minutes notice, then that in my opinion would be a flawed system. Clubs take on loanees as part of their squad for the year, and sign one year contracts for stability. But Westie wants the parent club to be able to go and retrieve its players when it so chooses, and then leave the other club in the sh!t for the rest of the season. Yes, that's really going to work and provide stability for the smaller teams.

  20. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 12:37 #80169

    @JJ No need to get my money on L'pool to win the PL as I had a good pay off on them last night. Got 8/1 'in play' when they were a goal behind & 100/30 to qualify. Drinks on me at the Emirates tomorrow, bring your own milk. Best bets I've had since backing Norwich to draw at 13/2 when AFC were a goal up & 16/1 WBA to beat AFC when 0-1 down. Plus Spuds 0 CFC 0 at 10/1. This old boy is HOT!!! Anything you want to know about football don't be afraid to ask?

  21. jjetplane

    Dec 03, 2015, 11:31 #80167

    poor little Arsenal scraping away and still managing to be on the CUSP of ... being on the cusp. You really have been away from football grounds for a long time WESTIE. Just watched Klopp being quite shocked by his own brilliance! He would NEVER have come to Arsenal at any price and under Webster's going for three decades worth of Football Club as supermarket enterprise the players that come to Arsenal are encouraged by Webster to be soft-bellied compromisers. Klopp to win the PL? Get money on that! remember all the AKBs saying Klopp just another flash in the pan Lol! He even makes a Lazurus score again! ... love this knee-jerking though I feel when I get on my bike .....

  22. Ron

    Dec 03, 2015, 11:30 #80166

    ....and yet Chelsea are still pretty ordinary on the pitch Westie. Can RA cure that as easily these days? If life was that easy, they d win everything every yr surely, yet they and City certainly dont. Give it up mate. Cash alone explanations never did solve the argument about why AFC never reach the final furlong.

  23. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 03, 2015, 11:24 #80165

    Yes Westie life can be easier if a rich sugar daddy like Stan..... Hang on that doesn't quite work. Or a rich sugar daddy like Alisher Usmanov, Hang on he can't get on the board. Oh well might as well finish 4th then

  24. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 10:55 #80163

    @Bard, Exactly that, as all new signings are a punt of one sort or another. The injury free player has yet to be born. News today that Abramovich is to cover all costs of building CFC's new ground, including the temporary move to Wembley & a new office block. QPR have had their £180m debts written off by Tony Fernandes & Partners after previously waived repayment of £60m of loans earlier this year. Isn't life easy if you're looked after by a sugar daddy?

  25. Ron

    Dec 03, 2015, 10:46 #80162

    Bard - he s a bit like Liv s Wilshere as you say, the difference being that Sturridge is undoubted quality when they do get him on to the pitch. Mr W hasnt proved that he is yet. Hes been injured by and large for 6 years! Hes definitely Abou s disciple! Quite liked Klopps guarded warning to Sturridge. I personally think Liverpool will look to sell him, whatever the loss if he doesn't shape up. Hes been injury hampered throughout his entire career thus far. It seems they think that many of injuries are imagined ones. Its quite common with some footballers. In Italy, its always been the case that a player is fit when the Club tell him that he is, not the other way around as it is here. Their take has always been that if said player wants the rewards, he gets his boots on and plays unless its patently clear that hes not fit. Their quite brutal in their analysis of a players fitness.

  26. Bard

    Dec 03, 2015, 9:49 #80161

    Westie:Aguero worth a punt as mostly muscle problems. Sturridge not in a month of Sundays.He is Liverpool's Wilshere.

  27. Red Member

    Dec 03, 2015, 9:47 #80160

    an interesting point raised about how winning trophies is not at all important these days.As an example I have been staggered at how little fuss the club made of the 2 FA Cup wins. Surely in this modern age you would expect the club shops to be stuffed full of memorabilia commemorating the victories. However they are not, the memorabilia on sale is far more generalised and tacky. I don't actually know who buys some of the stuff!?? Anyway the point is this - they don't need a cup win to sell things and if that is not needed then there doesnt need to be any ambition for the team to achieve this either. Supporters appear to be content to pay £50+ for a ticket, eat over priced crap and buy over priced crap. Great business model, but I am afraid that it is not for me

  28. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 8:37 #80159

    @Bard, Would you buy Sturridge or Aguero if offered. If the answer is yes then you'd be complicit in buying known injury prone players. The club has to declare it's 25 man squad on Sept 1st, so the players nominated are currently contracted to play for the club, injured at that time or not. A minimum of 8 homegrown players is arbitrary. Ours includes the ones you want rid off. Give me some names of homegrown players who could replace them? Charlie Austin maybe? Except he reportedly couldn't pass a stringent medical, according to WHam. Sturridge, Sterling, Hart, Stones, Barkley, Kane, Smalling, Carrick, Delph. Any of these guys available? What's the dinner ladies best position & don't say missionary!

  29. Wear Your Colours

    Dec 03, 2015, 8:12 #80158

    Adrian, you ask ..."Are we really just a bunch of whingeing toe rags with an over-developed sense of entitlement?". I guess if you look it from the perspective of many other fans who's teams haven't won domestic silverware for some time; who's team's highest ever finish in the League may be somewhere in the top ten but never above fifth; who's team rarely get's a European campaign let alone regularly take part in Europe's elite competition. Then if you look at Arsenal from their perspective then the answer would probably be an unequivocal yes. Many modern Gooners' seem to be a bunch of whingeing toe rags with an over-developed sense of entitlement.

  30. John F

    Dec 03, 2015, 7:27 #80157

    Very funny Hiccup just wondering if those famous dancers Stans people or dregs and co would get to appear,I preferred Hot Gossip who were in the best possible taste..

  31. Bard

    Dec 03, 2015, 7:01 #80156

    Hiccup fantastic post. Really funny. Westie if you cant see the folly of including players in your squad who are unable to play much then its a pointless debate. We might as well include the team dinner lady for all the worth they are to us. I see poor old Santi is out for 3 months. Custers last stand comes to mind. 4th spot now in jeopardy.

  32. Roy

    Dec 03, 2015, 6:55 #80155

    Ha ha ! Just rolled in from my night shift and got a good chuckle there Hiccup ! With a top 5 like that Wenger will soon be bubbling under with his own cover version of Jilted John " Yeah Yeah, it's not fair, Yeah Yeah........ Not 'arf, mate !

  33. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 6:39 #80154

    @Bard, If you think my post is comical you should reread your own. You don't understand how a 25 man squad is made up? Youth team players don't count as home grown! Only players registered with the FA or Welsh FA for 3 years before their 21st birthday are qualified as homegrown. Getting rid of 3 of ours would give us a real problem replacing them. The reason Citeh paid so much for Sterling is because he is one such gem. This is the same reason John Stones is valued so highly. On the theme of getting rid of injured players, would Liverpool offload Sturridge or Citeh jettison Aguero & Kompany because they're injury prone? Maureen kept playing Costa last season although he suffered from hamstring problems. Maureen always plays his strongest side. We were able to sell RVP on because he completed one injury free season before he was sold. Who would come in now and buy JW, Ox, Gibbs or Theo?? The loan system further complicates matters because any young player on the edge of the first team cannot get games at his parent club and is loaned out to gain experience. When an injury crisis occurs, said player is unavailable to the parent club. The loan system is fundamentally flawed. I agree with you that Arteta should not have been awarded a contract extension but as club captain he obviously has some influence on the dressing room, particularly with the Spanish speaking players.

  34. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 23:08 #80153

    Hiccup, great post, so many categories, and no doubt more to come/be invented, but we can all be sure they'll be made use off.

  35. Hiccup

    Dec 02, 2015, 22:47 #80152

    Hi Ron and all Excuse Pickers. Can't beat a bit of Smashie & Nicey! I reckon if you can bring yourself to be as mind numbingly dull as these two and talk irrelevant bollox for hours on end, then you can get to be on the same wavelength as the akb's on here. All I would change is the jingle of 'You ain't seen nothing yet' to Talking Heads 'We're on a road to nowhere'

  36. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 22:40 #80151

    jw, it seems a few other custers have come out from behind the ridge to try and make a last stand for their General, and as then are getting cut down, you'd think they'd know by now and retreat.

  37. Ron

    Dec 02, 2015, 22:19 #80150

    Oooh. Hiccup you do make me laugh! You must be Alan Fluff Freeman re in carnated. So funny mate.

  38. Ron

    Dec 02, 2015, 21:26 #80149

    Baddie - you really ought to stop kidding yself that youre a minority view crusader battling gamely against all odds like some latter day Richard 2nd. Ive often waited for you to wail 'My Kingdom for a horse'. Im sure it ll happen some day soon. The truth is that yr in the vast majority, the comfortable majority. Theres 50 - 60000 at the bowl every other week who by and large are in yr state. You often mention 'herds' the implication being that those who challenge the status quo at AFC are all lacking intelligence and ill informed and know not what we say. It seems pretty clear to me that many posters who arent of yr view on this site are of far greater intelligence than you. You shdt be so demeaning to them. Its dangerous and gets you into needless hot water every day it seems to me. Its that high and mighty, loose tongued and ill begotten phraseology that you use that makes so many pick on you Baddie. Turn it on its head and attempt to understand the wider and counter views and practice what you preach. That view is that real 'herd' are those who are frightened to look at what our Club has become, wary of challenging it and are in fact lemmings who are perhaps beguiled by the Clubs spin. On here at least you are in the vanguard of that approach that many of they who roll up at AFC every home game are on the ground as it were. Not all of them by any means, but believe me, you plough no new furrows with yr standpoint, whatever that standpoint is.

  39. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 21:24 #80148

    Sir frites ? more like sir frights, look at him, prim and proper, the waster, what does he do? the same as them all, fook all, their there for show and to kiss wengers arse, with wasters like that on the board is it any wonder we're in the state we're in. wenger out.

  40. Bard

    Dec 02, 2015, 21:04 #80147

    Westie; that post is comical. We need home grown players to fulfil our quota so we include 3 who hardly ever play. How ridiculous is that. Surely we can fill those places with youth team players who might put in more of a shift than the present ones or we had a manager who gets it a little more quickly than Arthur brings in other players. Your devotion is delusional mate.

  41. Hiccup

    Dec 02, 2015, 21:04 #80146

    So who will be this year's Christmas Number One in the Excuses Chart?Here we go with this week's Top 5 rundown: At 5, it's a new entry for the old singalong classic, Parking the Bus. At 4, it's a non mover, the double A side million seller, Jetlag and Fatigue. At 3, it's last week's number 1, and after 8 weeks at the top, Mike Dean is knocked off the top. Up 7 places to this week's number 2, it's Kneejerk and their monster hit, 'The FA have stitched us up with the fixtures again'. And straight in at number 1, it's a re-entry and the 80th time at the top for the timeless get out of jail for negligence card - 'Injuries'. But will it be number 1 at Christmas? Fat Sam releases his '10 men behind the ball' this weekend, and all being well in Greece next week, the old 'The Away Goals Rule Should be Banned', may see the daylight again. You can decide. Download your favourite excuse, and be part of the Happy Clapper Gang.

  42. Ron

    Dec 02, 2015, 20:37 #80145

    SKG - Youve just summed it up in half of the words that i did and twice as well. Youve hit on the head the very nail that i was looking to hit. GoonerC - there are diverse cultures that have grown in the PL i think, i.e the culture of the so called top 4 or 5 cartel that i describe and that SKG has described better and the culture of the clubs that have not yet tasted cartel culture. Yr view perhaps reflects the position of the players and Clubs below the cartel. Ive not said players don't try have i? You seem to have reading issues. Im suggesting that the collective priorities of players but more importantly the Clubs have changed and that lifting a tin pot isnt the be all and end all that it once was.Money has seen to that, esp for those at the top who cream off the major slice of the goodies. Are you seriously suggesting that you cant see that the money trail has enveloped Arsenals FC s entire thinking? I feel that youre a little naive in that view of yours and you want to think that was you say is true but deep down you know it isnt. Its a viable view but very idealistic i think. Clubs and players at the top want the cash first, Cups second.

  43. Bard

    Dec 02, 2015, 20:23 #80144

    Westie I have a scouse mate who told me that Klopp's comment to Sturridge was a thinly veiled threat that unless he gets fit and plays he's out. ( I know its heresay but interesting all the same. You still dont get it with the injuries. Arsenal have had the most injuries of all the PL sides over the last 10 years. All bad luck according to your view. Ridiculous.

  44. Westlower

    Dec 02, 2015, 20:22 #80143

    @Bard, It's not that simple getting rid of 3 home grown players in JW, Theo & Gibbs, as the squad needs a minimum of 8. Where do we get 3 quality home grown's to replace them? I backed Liverpool to qualify at 100/30 v Southampton when they were a goal down. I've just been able to do likewise with Southampton now they're 1-2 down. Money for nothing & your chicks for free.......

  45. Bard

    Dec 02, 2015, 20:09 #80142

    Come on Westie a bit of imagination. I wrote in the summer we should have sold Gibbs, Wally and Jack for starters. Arteta hardly played last year and we rewarded him with another contract. I would see how Ramsey and the Ox go and if they continue to spend their life in the treatment room sell them at the end of next season. They may be great players but they are no use if they are injured all the time.

  46. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2015, 20:06 #80141

    Here's a bet for you, Westlower. If we're both still alive when AFC finally have a change of manager, I bet you the injury rate goes down.

  47. Westlower

    Dec 02, 2015, 19:57 #80140

    If Klopp was our new manager and asked Sanchez to play through the pain barrier, aka Sturridge, would we slag him off or support his decision? When Sanchez tells Wenger he's fit to play, what are we expecting the manager to do? Why not play those who want to, why else are they here? How could Cazorla's, Coq & Kos's recent injuries be prevented? Who could foresee Gabriel breaking Jacks foot in training? Rosicky was injured playing for his country. BFG had a chest infection. Giroud suffered a broken leg. Debuchy broke his collarbone. Theo has need surgery over the previous 2 years. Welbeck & Gnabry have needed surgery. How does changing the manager prevent these injuries?

  48. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2015, 19:20 #80139

    You spend an awful lot of time responding to people who 'bore' you, goonercolesboy.

  49. jjetplane

    Dec 02, 2015, 19:17 #80138

    How the few have suffered for the sins of many. reckon they should ditch the Blue shirts and start wearing horsehair kits while the AKBs flail themselves. They could place hot coals on the road to the Emirates .... The Picassos of Football .... Lol! great game on tonight with two of the best coaches in the contesting .... oh when the Saints .... may the best team win but at least they don't throw matches on a seasonal basis ... MICK JONES was in The Clash and White Man in Hammersmith Palais was the bollocks! One two three go/I got an ego ....

  50. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 02, 2015, 19:04 #80137

    Yes bored jeffjunior, of you, not of the club.

  51. jeff wright

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:56 #80136

    The marketing side of things Ron with adverts on TV for games billed with names attached, rather like those that American Wrestling'showdowns' employ, have become part and parcel of the game now days. Also these Custer's last stand type Wenger Euro games are manna from heaven for the TV companies - who prefer this nonsense to just a non-event nothing to play for group stage game. Wenger's ineptness in Europe helps to produce these scenarios every season .Albeit this is the last thing that he wants .You would think by now that he would be more careful to avoid this situation but his own arrogance always ensures that things will never be easy - he just never learns.And, as the old saying goes ,those that do not learn from their past mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

  52. jjetplane

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:48 #80135

    Watch alot more than just 9th tier and reading your posts make me think you need a change of scenery too. You sound completely bored with all of it and your two mates who go to no games sound just as listless. Arsenal FC needs and has needed an injection of originality and energy for years. With half asleep fans like you the snooze button is on indefinitely. You are the only one who finds it tiresome if you were awake long enough to read a few posts ....

  53. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:46 #80134

    Ron : great analogy regarding a football season being like a rock band's UK tour. Sell the merchandise, promote the new album, finish fourth and do a re-union gig at the 02! Sky are to football what Stock, Aitkin & Waterman were to music - they killed what we all once loved!

  54. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:42 #80133

    "If playing Sanchez for an extra 20 minutes was that significant, how does that compare to flying to the other side of the world & playing 90 minutes in all of Chile's games?" Wenger had control over the former, not the latter. "He's known to be a workaholic and wants to play all the time, especially when he's on a hat-trick & enjoying himself" So Wenger has no power here to take him off? Or stop him playing after publicly announcing he has a problem beforehand? Isn't that called managing? "Who knows if being pushed into the photographers pit didn't worsen his hamstring?" This I assume is a joke? Did you see what happened? "If Arsenal acquired a reputation for showing players the door as soon as they suffered a long term injury" Where has this been suggested? The issue is giving new contracts to players who have proved, season after season, that they will miss great swathes of each season. "RVP was continually injured before he came good in his last season at AFC." And we finished 4th then he buggered off. Was it all worth it, in the end? "Maybe, just maybe Citeh, CFC & Man U have been better than us in the last 10 years" But you've been claiming for years that its injuries holding us back. You can't have it both ways. "the pub team player tw*tting the artisans" Is that what you actually see on your TV whenever AFC play someone? You may wish to adjust your set.

  55. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:28 #80132

    Disagree Ron with your assumption that trophies are irrelevant. All players want to win, they are at the top of their profession and want to win. The money they earn is not as important as is made out, yes they lead a comfortable life and are privileged to earn such vast amounts, but that doesn't mean they don't try or don't put it all in. From a fans perspective, there are a number who go for the experience but the majority want the club to win a trophy every year if possible. Passion in supporters of Sunderland and Newcastle is there for all to see, yet they win nothing and change the manager every year it seems to appease the fans. If you don't like the product then as you have done, don't go or say you support football but not necessarily Arsenal or as jeffjunior now goes to the ninth tier and saves his cash. That's your choice, but the constant moaning by some is still tiresome and falls on deaf ears at the club. Apart from getting it off your chest, what does it achieve?

  56. jeff wright

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:27 #80131

    Westie, Wenger is known for over playing players ,he has admitted to doing so in the past himself. It's up to a manager taking into account all circumstances to decide if a player should play or not play and not the player himself. The manager gets paid to do this.Wenger is known to be weak regarding that though as we saw with Henry who hated to be subbed - although there were times when he needed to be. Wenger is saying that he lets Sanchez decide if he should play or not himself. You can't imagine Sir Ferguson or Mourinho putting up with that nonsense. Ozil was also pushed into a pit but he was not injured and Sanchez's hamstring was not caused by that happening either any more than Santi's knee injury was . Overall Wenger's constant massive injury problems are as the Dutch ex-Wales fitness coach pointed out down to Wenger's own over use of players- he admitted that he made a mistake playing Ramsey recently when like Sanchez last weekend he needed a rest. Also his tactics and his outdated training and fitness regime contribute to our injury crisis every season.No amount of spin on other clubs injuries is going to alter this fact.

  57. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:24 #80130

    Mick Jones your memory doesn't serve you well my friend. The poster was supportive of AFC in totality, which pleased me. The anti-AFC sentiment is something I oppose. I have said on innumerable occasions that I respect and understand those who would ask for a change of manager, though I do not share their viewpoint. I am also aware that those demanding change are an assortment of disparate individuals all combined under a 'mob' mentality-movements do that, they attract all sorts. I endure a permanent state of being a minority in my support. The poster was attacked by the other side repeatedly, but many od his posts were just AFC support posts. His misogynistic, homophobic and religious rants were odious to me and I am on record on a number of occasions insisting that I opposed the views and attitude. The main attackers were on the 'other' side and did a fairly competent job. It didn't require my work. However turning this back on yourself I have been personally insulted on many occasions and I didn't see you leap to my defence on the grounds of morality, ethics or justice, so where were you? You perhaps have a stronger case to answer than myself, your tacit approval was not particularly courageous, was it? As I said I disapproved and all my posts would support that position. You are also in err about my appreciation of his humour-do something useful and go back and check any previous posts. Anyway thanks for calling me a hypocrite, based on inaccuracies I think you are a coward based on evidence-and is that your real poster moniker, or should I double the charge of cowardice?.

  58. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:22 #80129

    A good friend of mine and a Gooner like me for over 50 years, always felt that AW should have had one or two years at the Grove and then step up to the board. He felt, and I now think he was right that a different approach was needed if we were to make this next step up in world football. In short we needed a management team at the new ground who had real big club experience - remember we moved from Highbury to become a world class club. Arsene has not managed a Real Madrid or a Barca, not many managers have, it takes great mental strength (pardon the pun) to manage a team that has ambitions on becoming a world power, for me Arsene is too involved with finances of the club to effectively run the playing side. We need a completely new coaching team to manage the footballing side but more worryingly I also think the board are not good enough to make this huge leap from a famous traditional English football institution to the world class club that the revenue streams should bring. In short, both the footballing staff and the financial team are out of their depth. Without top trophies the support will decline and all that will be left is a worn out franchise struggling to sell it's "old hat" ad ons.

  59. jjetplane

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:16 #80128

    Artisans - what are you on WEStIE/ Bonkers lad! Anyway the important news is that Santi is now out for a minimum three months increasing Arsenal's stranglehold on the injury market. Wenger has turned this club into a laughing stock and yet his zealous little foolowers get more blinkered by the moment. Superb post that MBG and the penny dropped for me the day Bobby came out on crutches for his 'last stand.' That was the beginning of the decline though the management team had thrie sights on other victories NUDGE NUDGE! ARTISanS lol! That be Barca or BM not that silly lot you see getting pushed around by irritated footballers ....

  60. Ron

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:08 #80127

    Agree Jeff - the Americanization of the game is rampant as it will be when US owners move in. Trophies won is almost an afterthought now. The glory and enjoyment is in the occasion i.e. 'the match day experience' - for those who want it. Its a game that has cut its jib to suit the new breed of fans who are actually just content to be in the fabled PL - the so called 'best league in the World'. Tournament winning is in actual fact quite old hat and outdated now. It simply doesn't matter! The younger latter day fan has bought into this hype fuelled clap trap. Each Footie match has in many ways become like a rock gigs. The season for a Club is just like a band on a country wide tour. The outcome of that season is secondary to the money made as you say. Quite a sad situ!

  61. Westlower

    Dec 02, 2015, 18:06 #80126

    @Jeff If playing Sanchez for an extra 20 minutes was that significant, how does that compare to flying to the other side of the world & playing 90 minutes in all of Chile's games? He's known to be a workaholic and wants to play all the time, especially when he's on a hat-trick & enjoying himself. Who knows if being pushed into the photographers pit didn't worsen his hamstring? It certainly didn't help Debuchy when he was pushed off the pitch breaking his collarbone. If Arsenal acquired a reputation for showing players the door as soon as they suffered a long term injury, who would want to join AFC? Injuries cannot be forecast in advance. RVP was continually injured before he came good in his last season at AFC. Players are entitled to run down their contracts despite the club wanting them out. It would be remiss of the club if they didn't tie players down to a decent length contract. We'd all be jumping up and down if Ozil or Sanchez were trying to run down a short term contract & walk away for free anytime soon. The problem isn't confined to AFC. Maybe, just maybe Citeh, CFC & Man U have been better than us in the last 10 years, in the same way we're always better than the Spuds, Villa & Everton. Leicester are this years beneficiaries of not playing in Europe, Man U last year & Liverpool before that, when they finished runners up in PL. Less games = more recovery time & consistent form. There is a likelihood of more injuries this Saturday with yet another coach instructing his players to 'get in their faces' & break up play by whatever means. The British have an historical love of the pub team player tw*tting the artisans. It's why England have never featured in any competition, bar one.

  62. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 17:36 #80125

    Exeter, yes hard to believe isn't it ? but not for some. You really couldn't make it up.

  63. jjetplane

    Dec 02, 2015, 17:28 #80124

    I hear Webster is tabling a bid for Sturridge to link up with Danny Boy. NICK T agree with you mate on not going and who better an example of perversely voting with your feet than the AKB veterans association (AVA) who stopped going years ago. Good old Murdoch .....

  64. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 17:26 #80123

    jj, good post, I remember conversations and talk way back at the time of the invincibles, and the last game at Highbury, with questions like where do we go from here? what happens now? there was only one answer to them all, then the sky's the limit, we're going to rule the world, in among the whooping, cheering, singing and celebrating. I remember there were many wise heads at the time who didn't buy into the hype seeing things others didn't and threw caution to the wind and quipped we'll see, we'll really see what this club, and especially wenger are made of now and how good he is, and boy they got some looks, and stick, well they were very wise heads indeed and they were right, to not only think it but say it too, there wouldn't be to many giving then stick today because they were spot on, the club have been ambitionless since with an ambitionless manager, who just wasn't up to the job of taking us to another level, he just hadn't it in him, and he knew it, and he still does, and so it has been proved.

  65. jeff wright

    Dec 02, 2015, 17:16 #80122

    The Diaby farce was unbelievable and purely down to Wenger ,he can't move Arteta and Flam because HE gave them long contracts. As regards Jack ,well Wenger admitted to over playing him when he was younger and that this contributed to his injury problems.He is still at it now rushing injured players back like a desperate man trying to plug a leaking dam by sticking his fingers in the holes that are appearing it. Sanchez getting injured is another Wenger booby he played him against Zagreb for 20 minutes or more when we were 3-0 up .What sense was there in this- I suspect that for reasons of his own vanity that Wenger wanted a cricket type score against Zagreb due to the humiliation he had suffered against them. Good old Arsene.

  66. Westlower

    Dec 02, 2015, 17:01 #80121

    @Bard, Pray do tell me, how do you move injured players on to other clubs? They're under contracts and are entitled to see out their term, injured or not. It's too simplistic to keep saying move them out. Who would buy an injured Diaby, Arteta or Rosicky. Could Liverpool shift Sturridge right now?

  67. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 02, 2015, 16:48 #80120

    A few days after we've seen a most blatant example re: Sanchez of how Wenger's squad management contributes to AFC's decade-long presence at the top of the injury league, to still be peddling the 'injuries are random', 'injuries happen' line beggars belief. What kind of 'fool' would rather see this carry on just the same for a few more years than see Wenger apportioned any culpability here?

  68. Bard

    Dec 02, 2015, 16:34 #80119

    Westie mate youre being disingenuous regarding injuries. You are in danger of missing the point. Its not the injuries per se that are the problem its the fact that the same players keep missing large chunks of the season, season on season, Gibbs, Ramsey, Jack ,Wally, Ox and now Arteta. you cant possibly expect the side to make progress if up to a third of your squad are out injured month after month. I didnt even add Diaby to that list who we only shifted recently after the best part of 6 years injured.

  69. jeff wright

    Dec 02, 2015, 16:31 #80118

    Hi Ron, there has been a swing in the Prem from winning top trophies at clubs such as United and Arsenal toward the USA type of model , where profits are more important than trophies and supporters are viewed as being customers paying for a commodity. Ivan has made some clumsy attempts in the past to try and pretend that we are competing,or can compete for the European Cup and Prem ,you will recall is ,we are just behind Bayern Munich claim and we can pay Rooney type wages for players comments . Wenger however was quick out of the traps to refute these claims that put himself under pressure - he prefers the top 4 and Champions League group stage qualification being viewed as a success. All rather bland and boring this every season though so the previously not worth bothering with FAC has been elevated to being a top trophy again to help to hide the failures in the Prem and in Europe by hapless arrogant Arsene. The loss of the 4th place qualifier tie for Prem sides and no FAC this season could put the cat among the pigeons though for Arsene . The chickens are already back roosting under the leaky roof at Stan's coliseum and the vultures are hovering above it once again in the increasingly darkening skies.A temporary respite might be had from it all at the weekend if results go Arsene's way but the forthcoming Xmas programme and the run of 3 games at the end of January will be the real test of wheter or not we can compete for the league with City. As regards Europe irrespective of the result in Athens we already know that we are not good enough to win the European Cup .

  70. Badarse

    Dec 02, 2015, 16:23 #80117

    Haven't read this item yet but did the previous one just now. The comments are closed and I don't involve myself with Twitter etc, (if there is an etc!??!), so wanted to comment here. I applaud you Kevin for carrying the article and the strong support you registered. You can be a clown, dummy, or even a racist and still support Arsenal. Thankfully we seem to be a little better than many clubs and it should stay that way. It will only do so if we police ourselves; a big 'up' for you Kevin it made me feel a little prouder that some-like yourself-walk amongst us, and help to guide. Sorry it sounds a little mawkish but anti-racism is a subject dear to my heart.

  71. Ron

    Dec 02, 2015, 16:07 #80116

    I think the emphasis on AFC injuries vis those of other Clubs is a bit over played as Westie mentions, but as far as 'fans expectations' are concerned, im not of the fans of most Clubs do inflate them. Utd fans tend to have a feeling of 'we shd win the league all things being equal' about them as i hear from many of them, but by and large the fans of Clubs beneath the cartel just have wishes, not expectations. For me personally to see an Arsenal teams play with passion, commitment and to give the PL such a run so as the eventual winners know they've been in a battle is enough. As for the Cups, all genuine efforts to win them is a minimum requirement. I know we cant win trophies every season. As for the ECL , ive thought for many years that the days of a Club the size of AFC winning it have long since gone and to be honest i cdt care less about such a fraudulent tournament. Its not much to 'expect' is it? What i get though is insulting spin from AFC trying to kid me they're in tournaments to win them. They're clearly not. Id have some respect for them if they said ' we re gonna be half arsed about the Cups this season and put our eggs in the PL Basket and sod the ECL as its unlikely we can win it'. If i ever heard the first honesty to emerge from that bowl such as this (it ll never happen) id actually buy a ticket for the odd home game and write in congratulating the Club for dropping the pretence and bullshine policy they've adopted for the last decade.

  72. Nick T

    Dec 02, 2015, 15:42 #80115

    From a footballing point of view the club has been and is treading water, however, as a business things are fantastic right now. Kroenke is 100% a businessman - if you own a business and can charge £10 with a cost price of £3 or can charge £10 with a cost price of £5 which do you think you'd go for?! Until there are vast swathes of empty seats or a 5th place finish nothing will change. Its that simple!!

  73. Westlower

    Dec 02, 2015, 15:31 #80114

    Any fool can be wise after the event but injuries happen randomly. With International fixtures shoehorned between PL, LC & ECL games the potential for injuries has never been greater in the English game. Arsenal don't have a monopoly with injuries, as according to Physioroom.com Bournemouth has 11, AFC 10, Newcastle 9, Citeh, 8, L'pool 7 & Man U 7. who could have predicted injuries to Navas, Fernando, Aguero, Hart, Zabaleta, Mangala, Kompany & Nasri all at the same time? As Ron suggested, players were given steroid injections to get them through back in the old days but with the consequence of being crippled in later life. Football fans expectations have to be reined in to a realistic level. The time much surely come when the number of games played has to be reduced, if only for the players well being. Football now has a worldwide fixture list and suitable breaks need to be built in. You can only ask a player to go the well so often. If the status quo remains, squads need to be expanded to 40+ players from 25 & a reserve league created. Otherwise the shambolic loan system will continue.

  74. Ron

    Dec 02, 2015, 15:31 #80113

    Good point about Utds ambition under LVG Jeff. Once a Club like Utd settle for the humdrum existence that AFC have done, the writings truly on the wall for footballs destiny. Its makes you worry, who really cares any more who actually win the PL. Maybe the glory and the winning of it to get the taste of sporting achievement is just an aside now? Sort of a 'nice if you happen to win it, but we re not too bothered' mentality. Ive had that thought and view for some yrs now and im fairly sure that the Clubs do too. Its why football amongst the so called big 4 has become so tedious and sterile.

  75. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 15:08 #80112

    Adrian, less conservative acquisition policy? even if it is to plug shortcomings, careful now the AKB's will be accusing you of wanting us to do a Leeds, Portsmouth.

  76. Snowbiggee

    Dec 02, 2015, 14:24 #80110

    The performance of the Board at the recent AGM,tells you all you need to know.They appear to have no real idea what Wenger does and seem delighted to let him run the club how he sees fit.Does Kroenke even check the results? Say what you like about Dein, but having a fan with some ambition on the Board,made a difference.

  77. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 14:20 #80109

    Adrian, your a couple of years older than me, still relativity young, wenger isn't, he won't be here for ever hopefully only another year or so (if that) so keep on believing.

  78. jeff wright

    Dec 02, 2015, 14:12 #80108

    The government should have blocked leeches such as Kroenke from gaining control of some our football clubs purely to enrich themselves by doing do. I have no problem with foreign owners who put their own cash into clubs in the same way that some foreigners have always owned racehorses in this country .I have no time what so ever though for the Kroenke and Glazer types who are purely motivated by financial rather than sporting reasons for buying into our football clubs using borrowed money that they by various means pass onto the clubs they control as hidden debts. Some Manchester United supporters set up a protest group against this years ago but it all seems to have been in vain and unlike Silent Stan at least the Glazers have produced some success on field as well as off it . Albeit that under Sir Ferguson at the end of his long tenure the teams looked only a pale shadow of what they were prior to the Glazers taking over that included his last title winning one as well .Many say that the current United side is boring under LVG and set up to do what Wenger's ones do,to win a 4th place trophy and the big bucks that the this brings in from the European Cup group stages.

  79. mbg

    Dec 02, 2015, 14:09 #80107

    Adrian, there were those surprised alright, they thought we were going to win the league this year, this was our year, (again) just like last year and the one before that and the one before that, etc, etc, only to quickly realise (again) it's deja vu, and still they think we'll come good just like they do every season also (or rather their messiah will come good and lead us to the land of milk and honey,it doesn't matter about the club, that's what they really want ). No there's not many who were surprised by Sunday or all the rest of the tame surrenders and embarrassments over the last ten seasons but what's new? It's always deja vu and always will be with this old past it manager in charge, and still some don't realise it, or just don't want to.

  80. Tony Evans

    Dec 02, 2015, 12:48 #80106

    Afraid not, Adrian. I think older fans (which includes me) are probably even more frustrated than most. I just don't get so much of how Wenger operates, and am always waiting for the wheels to come off - which they inevitably do.

  81. jjetplane

    Dec 02, 2015, 12:41 #80105

    Arsenal are a perfect business model under the (accountancy) of A Webster & Co. Passing the Emirates would be akin to passing any corporate base and as long as the private trough is full (may overflow next season) there is no reason to alter plans. Have always been of the mind that Webster is not the football man he purports to be. he still feeds off the mythology of his first decade but when that is analysed we seen a club player driven with a few real World Class players in it's ranks. Webster had only to play the geeky genius role in the background. The misfit who turned a team into 'invincibles.' That they were put out of every cup during that period of drawing and inching games makes it not so invincible now. The squad has degraded over the past decade to a bunch of uniformly average players with little fight in them. With Sanchez out for possible months it falls to Ozil to drive this team on. Lovely player he is there is no way he has that leadership in his locker. On a good day he reminds me a bit of the great Bobby Pires but bob had DB, PV, TA and of course Wiltord who was boss. As other fans may remark being top four every season is like a dreamworld but those clubs would soon get bored of it especially if they thought there will be no trophies but simply financial gain for a handful of nonfootball snakes with Mr 'never kicked a ball in his life' Webster sitting smugly at the top of the table. I was watching arsenal keenly from the 60s till 2004 and then I had that little realisation that something is at an end and it's time for a new coach and direction on the pitch. Never happened and by 2008 was proved right that the club was in decline as the trophies dried up. Still go to games every season and support my local club at home in the 9th tier and thank **** for the non-league - it's football heaven! Have also watched lower division football in Ireland, France and Scotland, college soccer in the States so the last decade has been great and as much as I love the Arsenal club the present model is not for the likes of me. Still we post because it is Arsenal. Anyone born within a stones throw of Highbury will know what I mean. Right - just **** off down A Lane now Ha ha!

  82. Hiccup

    Dec 02, 2015, 12:41 #80104

    Adrian. November has just finished. Give it a couple of weeks, then revisit this article. You'll be able to look at things a bit clearer. You'll probably then realise, that this piece is suffering from a bout of knee-jerkism.

  83. IwasatWHLin1971

    Dec 02, 2015, 12:20 #80103

    Sadly he seems unable to take us forward post austerity. A great first seven years, an accepetable second seven considering finances, but no progress since. Every year is like Groundhog Day these days; injuries, November collapses, early CL exit, no real PL challenge and empty transfer windows. he has been great but it's time for a change.

  84. Red Member

    Dec 02, 2015, 11:59 #80101

    it is all about ambition. sadly there is no ambition to win the big trophies at the Arsenal anymore because they think it would cost too much money. Whilst the masses keep coming and paying for the most expensive tickets in the league then who can blame them? there is no pressure on Wenger and the board at all to change things. Wenger is doing the job asked of him and he does it very well each season

  85. Ron

    Dec 02, 2015, 11:55 #80100

    A very good post Adrian. Its for all of us as individuals to decide what we do and how we choose to see the Club. For me personally, ive found relief from the frustartion by stepping aside from it, but its up to each of us. In my view the Clubs a stale, tepid imitation of what it once was staffed by stale, tepid, half committed players and a Coach of a similar ilk yet with owners who are happy with being an also ran. I could be wrong, but yrs of seeing the same old malaise makes me need a seriously persuasive argument to make me even begin to doubt my own views and perceptions of the Club. I've never seen one such argument of any lucidity on here by those who stoutly support the regime. Having said this, the Club is 'successful' by todays yardstick of the game. We pays our money and takes our chances dont we. Ive chosen not to pay them any money and wont be doing so until i see a football Club in N7 again. Im not holding my breath either. It may well be that ill never enter the home of Arsenal FC ever again, such is the game today. The word insipid doesn't even get half way to describing Arsenal FC for me to be totally truthful. I still love footie though, just not Arsenals present way of purveying it.

  86. Bard

    Dec 02, 2015, 11:49 #80099

    Adrian; a well written and well argued piece. What it comes down to Adrian is that many of the fans, me included, think the club are treading water and should be doing better and there are those that think we are doing just fine. In other words its about ambition. The club peddle b******* about competing with the top tier of clubs while it is evident on the field that we are nowhere near that level and in my view have gone backwards.

  87. Gaz

    Dec 02, 2015, 10:54 #80097

    Sorry fella, I lost faith in Wenger years ago! A couple of occasions I've thought/hoped that he might be about to change but then he goes and makes the same old mistakes and we're back to square one again. He's going nowhere and nobody in the board want to replace him. Sad as it is there's a few more years of this to come yet...

  88. John F

    Dec 02, 2015, 10:52 #80096

    Hi Adrian .The fact that we do finish in the top four every year adds to the N frustration for me.Every year I think we are only 2/3 top signings from making a sustained challenge for the title but either the board or Wenger seem reluctant to just go for that little bit extra quality.Wenger's style of play is good enough for top four but on occasion the lack of adjusting tactics to different teams cost us points.For example on the rare occasion when every one is fit why when we know we are playing sit back and defend teams does he not at least try and play two up front.The reason why we play so much tippy tappy out side the box is because Giroud is surrounded by defenders and there is no one else in the box to pass too.His obsession with playing central midfielders out wide rather then signing or developing genuine wide players is another issue.