#ThrowbackThursday - Arsenal v Sunderland Home & Away

Part one of a look back at the Black Cats’ clashes with the Gunners down the years



#ThrowbackThursday - Arsenal v Sunderland Home & Away

1973 Final – Sunderland defeated Arsenal in the semis


Rather like Arsenal, Sunderland too were formed by a Scotsman called James Allan in 1879, who worked as a schoolmaster. The club was originally known as Sunderland & District Teachers Association Football Club to provide recreational amusement for fellow teachers in the Sunderland area. By 1881 non-teachers were admitted, meaning that the club’s name had been abbreviated to Sunderland Association Football Club and turned professional in 1885. The side defeated Middlesbrough in the FA Cup in December 1887, however were disqualified for fielding three ineligible players who were imported from Scotland specifically for the tie.

It was partly this instance, as well as the general commercial direction which the club took, which led to the departure of James Allan along with seven other fellow players disgruntled by professionalism to form local rival side Sunderland Albion. Such was the animosity between Sunderland AFC and Sunderland Albion that when the two sides were drawn together in the FA Cup and the Durham Challenge Cup, the former withdrew from both competitions in order to deny the latter increased gate receipts. After Allan left Sunderland AFC, into the void stepped Tom Watson who played a prominent role in Newcastle East End and Newcastle West End – both of whom were ancestor sides of Newcastle United – who joined them in 1889.

That year too there was an indication of Sunderland’s promise as they defeated Preston North End’s invincibles in a friendly fixture played in April 1889. They attracted the attention of the founder of the Football League - William McGregor – who enthused that the club had ‘a talented man in every position’. Sunderland applied to join the Football League, which at the time revolved around sides in the North and Midlands. An offer by Sunderland to pay towards other clubs' travelling costs to compensate for the extra distance member clubs would need to travel up to the North East helped to tip the balance in their favour. Sunderland became League Champions in only their second League season, finishing five points clear of the dominant Preston North End side under a two points for a win system, as well as retaining the title a year later becoming the first side to score one hundred league goals, carried out in just a thirty game season.

That season, Woolwich Arsenal played their first fixture against Sunderland away in the FA Cup First Round in January 1893, where Sunderland inflicted a 0-6 defeat on the Gunners. In 1893/94 Sunderland missed out on a hat-trick of titles, coming second to Aston Villa, though won back the title in 1894/95 finishing five points clear of Everton in second place. That same season Sunderland won the Football World Championship, which was a fixture between the winners of the England and Scottish Leagues, by beating Heart of Midlothian 5-3. Rather than American-style arrogance, the name was based on the fact the English and Scottish Leagues were the only ones that existed anywhere in the world at the time. Sunderland’s initial dominant phase however ended when Tom Watson was poached by Liverpool.

Sunderland added a fourth league title in 1901/02, however the dominance of sides such as Sunderland, Aston Villa and Preston North End, who by this point had together won eleven out of fourteen contested League Champions, meant that the Football League had implemented a maximum wage and retain and transfer system to ensure competitive balance, measures which remained unchallenged until the 1960s. After this, Sunderland would only win two further League titles. In 1904 Sunderland hired Bob Kyle as Secretary-Manager, who stayed in the role for twenty three years and remains the only Irishman to manage an English League Championship side. Woolwich Arsenal’s first League fixture against Sunderland came in November 1904 in front of 30,000 spectators at Plumstead’s Manor Ground, which ended in a 0-0 draw.

In 1911, Sunderland signed former Arsenal youth Charles Buchan from Southern League side Leyton F.C. (not the Orient) for a record of £1200. Buchan originally wasn’t very popular with the Sunderland fans, however went on to become the club’s top scorer for seven of the next eight seasons either side of the First World War, as well as aiding them to the League title in 1912/13 however Sunderland missed out on the double after losing that year’s FA Cup Final to league runners up Aston Villa at Crystal Palace (the penultimate FA Cup final to be played at the venue). Sunderland also finished as runners up in 1922/23, six points behind Champions Liverpool.

In 1923/24 Sunderland were involved in the title race and two points clear at the top of the table when Buchan was called up to play for England ahead of a Sunderland visit to Highbury to face Arsenal which resulted in a 2-0 win for the Gunners. A week later the two sides met at Roker Park, with Sunderland only managing a 1-1 draw. The latter fixture took place on Easter Saturday, with Sunderland playing three fixtures over the four day weekend, also losing away at West Brom on Easter Monday, which significantly hit Sunderland’s title chances. That season they finished four points behind Champions Huddersfield in third place. In the summer of 1925, at the age of thirty four Herbert Chapman called into Charles Buchan’s sports shop in Sunderland personally to sign him for Arsenal.

Sunderland’s replacement would also be a future Arsenal player, David Halliday, who went on to score an incredible 156 goals in just 166 games for Sunderland. In his final season at Sunderland he broke the club’s record for the most goals in a season – forty three – before transferring to Highbury. Halliday however only played for Arsenal for the 1929/30 season, scoring eight goals in fifteen games, though four of which came in his final game – a 6-6 draw away at Leicester, a week before the 1930 FA Cup Final, which Arsenal went on to win. Their first game after that triumph had been against Sunderland at Highbury, whose players gave Arsenal a guard of honour. Sunderland however went on to inflict a 0-1 defeat on Arsenal that day. The Gunners however came to dominate English league football over the following season, with a 6-1 defeat of Sunderland at Highbury in September 1932, with a hat-trick from Joe Hulme and goals from David Jack, Ernest Coleman and Cliff Bastin.

By 1934/35 however Sunderland began to re-build a decent side, featured here in Pathe’s series on top English sides in training, and began to challenge Arsenal in the title race - even inflicting a 1-2 defeat on Arsenal at Roker Park in October. At the time of Sunderland’s visit to Highbury the following March the Rokerites were two points off Arsenal in the title race. The fixture brought a record 73,295 crowd for a fixture at Highbury (a record which lasted until Arsenal played Lens at Wembley in 1999, where an extra 412 people turned up at the National stadium to see an Arsenal Champions League group fixture). The match ended in a in 0-0 draw which must have been a disappointment to the huge crowd that attended, but obviously aided Arsenal’s title push and a third successive title which followed in May.

A more entertaining contest followed at the start of the 1935/36 season when Sunderland next visited Highbury, as Arsenal ran out 3-1 winners. The title however headed away from Highbury as Sunderland became 1935/36 league champions, the last time that the title would head to Wearside. Sunderland finished the season eight points ahead of runners up Derby County and eleven ahead of Arsenal in sixth place. Arsenal’s visit to Roker Park that season brought a nine goal thriller as Sunderland inflicted a 4-5 defeat on Arsenal, with goals from Ray Bowden, Cliff Bastin and Ted Drake and an own goal. Sunderland’s trophy winning run continued into the following season by winning the 1937 FA Cup Final, after going a goal down. This was the first time in which Sunderland had won the trophy and among the goal scorers that day had been Sunderland’s captain Raich Carter, who went on to 118 goals in 245 games throughout the 1930s.

The 1937 FA Cup win however would be Sunderland’s last trophy for over three and a half decades. After the war, Sunderland would visit Highbury on the opening day of Arsenal’s first post-war title season. Arsenal won 3-1 with goals from Jimmy Logie, Ian McPherson and Ronnie Rooke. In 1948/49, Sunderland would be on the receiving end of a major FA Cup upset losing 1-2 to non-league Yeovil who at the time were managed by Alec Stock, who was a future Arsenal assistant manager and actually cited as the inspiration for The Fast Show’s Ron Manager by his creator, Paul Whitehouse. However, as this Pathe News footage of the match shows, much of the footage of this game was lost due to a thick fog which descended in the Second Half.

During the late 1940s and early 1950s, Sunderland became known as the ‘Bank of England’ club for their free spending manner. In 1948 Sunderland signed Len Shackleton from their neighbours, Newcastle United, who were then languishing in the second tier. Shackleton started his career at Arsenal as an amateur while working on the ground staff. Shackleton once stated: ‘any 15-year-old boy, invited to join the greatest club in the world, would have been out of his mind to think twice’. Shackleton played just two reserve games, however wasn’t offered a professional contract. George Allison had told Shackleton: ‘Go back to Bradford and get a job. You will never make the grade as a professional footballer’. Shackleton did so and played for the now defunct Bradford Park Avenue.

After the war Shackleton signed for Newcastle United, scoring six goals on his debut against Newport County in a 13-0 victory for the Geordies. Shackleton remarked of the day that Newport were so poor that they were: ‘lucky to get nil’. After leaving Newcastle for local rivals Sunderland, Shackleton once said his old club: ‘I'm not biased when it comes to Newcastle – I don't care who beats them!’ something which even Sol Campbell never went as far as saying about Tottenham! In August 1952, Shackleton got his revenge on Arsenal for discarding him as a youth by inflicting a 1-2 defeat on the Gunners with Sunderland. With five minutes to go and winding down the clock, Shackleton dribbled the ball into Arsenal's penalty area before putting his foot on it, pretending to comb his hair while looking at his watch.

Sunderland’s spending at the time included paying a world record fee of £30,000 to Aston Villa for Trevor Ford, who scored a hat-trick as Sunderland thrashed champions Arsenal 1-7 at Roker Park in 1953/54. That season Sunderland signed nine players for a total of £70,000, which included Ray Daniel from Arsenal. At Highbury the following January, Sunderland inflicted a 1-4 defeat on Arsenal, however despite splashing the cash the Rokerites finished the season narrowly avoiding relegation in eighteenth position. The nearest in which free spending Sunderland came to winning a trophy was reaching the FA Cup Semi Final in 1956, however they lost 0-1 to Birmingham City at Hillsborough.

The ability to buy success in the 1950s however was greatly restricted by the existence of the maximum wage. However in 1957, after Trevor Ford had left the club to join Cardiff, he had admitted in his autobiography to having received under the counter payments from Sunderland. An FA investigation had confirmed that Sunderland had made illegal payments to players in order to get around the maximum wage rule. Evidence was uncovered of a string of payments, totalling just over £5,000 (£108,000 in today’s money), to contract companies who were purposely charging Sunderland excessive fees for services and later sending credit-notes to redress the balance, which in turn were passed on to players.

Six Sunderland players were charged by the Football League with accepting illicit payments - including record signing Trevor Ford and Ray Daniel – and threatened with expulsion from the game. PFA chairman Jimmy Hill however, as part of a growing campaign to abolish the maximum wage, collected signatures from over 250 players across the country admitting to the very same offence and presented it to the Football League. Fines and suspensions were handed out to the guilty players, while Sunderland’s manager, chairman and trainer would all resign amid the scandal. Worse was to follow for the Rokerites as Sunderland slipped out of the top tier at the end of the following season for the first time in their history, after finishing in twenty first position, having been a fixture in the top tier since 1890.

Sunderland remained in the second tier for six seasons, during that time however Arsenal visited Roker Park in the third round of the FA Cup in 1961 and suffered a 1-2 defeat. One star who turned out for the Wearsiders during this period was Brian Clough, who scored sixty three goals in seventy four games for Sunderland. However, on Boxing Day of 1962 Clough suffered an injury at Roker Park against Bury which caused his early retirement and consequently led to his early entry into Football management. Sunderland achieved promotion as runners up to second tier champions Leeds United in 1963/64. On their return to the top tier Sunderland faced Chelsea for their first appearance on Match of the Day, however lost 1-3.

Unlike Leeds Utd, Sunderland’s return to the top flight saw them finish in the bottom half of the table for six season in a row. Arsenal won six out of their first seven fixtures against Sunderland on their return, with the only win for Sunderland during the 1960s coming in 1967/68 with Arsenal suffering a 0-2 defeat at Roker Park. That same season, a 2-1 win for Sunderland at Old Trafford costed Man Utd the title. Sunderland suffered relegation back to the second tier again at the end of 1969/70. That season Arsenal beat Sunderland 3-1 at Highbury with goals for Ray Kennedy, Peter Storey and Eddie Kelly. It would however be Arsenal’s last victory over Sunderland in all competitions for the next fourteen years.

Again, there would be no quick return to the top flight for Sunderland. However one of the last great moments in the club’s history occurred during Sunderland’s six year absence from the top tier in the FA Cup, which was made all the more unforeseeable by the fact that Sunderland had only won one match in the FA Cup in the five campaigns before 1972-73. In November 1972, Bob Stokoe took over a Sunderland side fourth from bottom of the second tier. In the FA Cup, Sunderland had made it past Notts County and Reading in the third and fourth rounds before meeting title challengers from the season prior, Manchester City. Sunderland held City to a 2-2 draw at Maine Road, before a 3-1 triumph back at Roker Park.

In the Quarter Finals the Wearsiders saw off Luton Town at Roker Park with a 2-0 win, before being drawn against Arsenal in the Semi Finals at Hillsborough. Arsenal were looking to become the first side during the twentieth century to reach three successive FA Cup Finals and, as Peter Storey stated in his autobiography: ‘nobody outside Wearside could have expected us to lose to Sunderland in the semi-final at Hillsborough. They were nothing more than a middle-to-average sort of Second Division side’. Sunderland opened the scoring as Vic Halom pounced on a weak back pass from Jeff Blockley. Billy Hughes put Sunderland two ahead with a header which looped over Bob Wilson.


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28
comments

  1. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 05, 2015, 13:29 #80271

    Cole-sky, Thanks for putting me right - I remember now.

  2. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 04, 2015, 17:02 #80231

    Clarke scored the header from Jones' cross as a correction to the post above by arseknowsbest.

  3. Ron

    Dec 04, 2015, 12:41 #80210

    SKG - Always thought Allan Clarke was the dirtiest and snidiest mate. Recall the Charlton foul on Jim Furnell in the 68 LCF to give them the 1-0 win too? AKB - HA ha yes, recall those tassles. Gray was a great player. I think hes still there coaching or some thing? He managed them some yrs back as i recall. Paul Reaney was a cracking full back. George Best always said he never got an inch from Reaney and respected his play a lot. I think history has shown that those years damaged Leeds as much as ever Peter Ridsdale did.

  4. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 04, 2015, 12:15 #80208

    Hi Ron - I know the gooner orthodoxy was to dislike that Leeds team of the early 70's, probably not least because of the 72 final and Mick Jones's long header past Geoff Barnett. Amazing how the former went on to even greater things with the Clash. I always remember Jones because it looked like he wore high top rugby boots. Anyway, either because of where I lived at the time (nr Leicester) or that I was surrounded by excessively hard-nut Leeds fans at school, we always tended to dislike Derby more than the Revie-men. I was also corrupted by a pair of those LUFC tassled sock keeper-uppers with the number (11 - I was a left winger then!) and new fangled velcro fastening. I also thought Eddie Gray should have been signed by Bertie Mee but that was never going to happen. Latterly, I also thanked Leeds for denying Manure the title on the last day of the season (92 was it?). Leeds, Leeds, Leeds. Was in Nottingham yesterday and saw Cloughie's statue. Brought back some top memories from the late 70's.

  5. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 04, 2015, 11:01 #80204

    Hi Ron : I would loved to have been in that room when Cloughie told the Leeds players their fortune that day. I went to a boxing dinner in Hull many years back where Hunter & Bremner were the speakers, Norman was very funny, BB was just the same off the pitch as on it, very uncompromising!

  6. Ron

    Dec 04, 2015, 10:17 #80203

    SKG - We we re all Mackems that day mate weren't we! Leeds were a vile Club i thought, vile players (though highly talented) and with a vile Manager who engendered a vile culture in that Club. They should have won more as you rightly say but in my view they didn't deserve to. Cloughs error seemingly when he went there was telling them the truth about themselves and they didnt like it one bit did they.

  7. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 04, 2015, 9:54 #80202

    Sunderland's cup winning team may have been a second division side but it had at least 6 1st division players, this was proved when Watson, Tueart etc left and joined Man City. Montgomery had the game of his live but my memory of the game was how well Sunderland stuck to the game plan and kept together throughout the 90 minutes. Leeds were a bit like us, that is, if the early pressure did not bring a goal they did lose their way. Also like us, Leeds should have won more trophies than they did in the late sixties and early seventies.

  8. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 04, 2015, 9:46 #80201

    Idle (idol?) speculation about people called "Gary" that'd make a better job of managing the Arsenal than the present incumbent made me think of the following candidates who would offer something different to Senor Neville. How's about: Gary Numan - he could give team talks interspersed with virtuoso and moody performances on a synth, and could prepare the ground for his appointment by flying his microlight aircraft over the ground with a banner saying "No More OGL - pleeeese". Or Gary Busey who could administer some interesting substances from his, ahem, medicine cabinet to the players in order to reduce the number of injuries at the club. But for me the job would have to go to Gary Coleman who could be brought out of cryogenic suspension to utter the immortal phrase, "What choo talkin' about Bouldy" as the hapless assistant coach tried to get the back four to shake off their addiction to zonal marking. G Glitter's application would have to be ruled out given the likelihood that he would excessively focus on the youth team; G Lineker is a clueless, preening spudlover and knows less about modern football than the current jobholder, and G Barlow is a tax-avoiding, boss-eyed has-been. Now, where did I leave that bong...

  9. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 04, 2015, 7:07 #80200

    MBG / Ron totally agree! Can't help but think that society including football has a touch of the 70's about it. Old guard decaying or gone. Radical politics back in the air, some good regional teams starting to appear. Chelsea getting relegated (one can dream). New broom needed! How long has Wenger got on his contract again?

  10. Ron

    Dec 04, 2015, 0:58 #80198

    MBG - Yr best post ever. Funny to read too, but all smack on and great points. I for one hope GN does well. unlike many i liked him as a player. Very gutsy and made the very best of himself seeing as he wasnt naturally gifted. There are some good young bosses coming through now. Yr so right. Fergs gone and its high time the tedious twosome, Webster and Mourinho we re either knocked out of their respective dull, smarting, snarling whinging orbits. Footie will be the winner for it.

  11. mbg

    Dec 03, 2015, 23:04 #80197

    Mark from Aylesbury, good point, we can say what we like about GN and some have, mostly because he was a member of a regime who got the better of us and wenger both on and off the pitch, but he's certainly surprised us all in his roll on Sky, I don't think I've heard a bad word said about him by anybody, I know that doesn't or wont make him a good manager, but i'm sure there's not many who would bet against him becoming a good one, after all he's had the best as a teacher. Yes our old man is looking out of place now (and has been for a long time) with his out of date philosophies, decisions, and especially the embarrassments they're coming far more often now (which usually happens when one gets older)but all these young buck managers who we have now with their fresh ideas, tactics, ways, and philosophies, who've all got the measure of him and brought a breath of fresh air to their clubs and fans, while our old man sits on the bench keeping us years behind the times, rocking back and fourth like he was in a rocking chair in front of the fire making excuses and complaining about everything, wenger out.

  12. Ron

    Dec 03, 2015, 22:51 #80196

    My late Dad always used to say that Sunderland were known as the Bank of England Club in the 30s when he was a kid. Thats the measure of them in their Raich Carter days. Used to say thay had a guy named Shackleton who was a real ball artist who would beat a player and then sit on the ball challenging the defender to come and get it off him. I saw George Best do it once v Wolves when i was a school kid but apparently it was Shackleton s party piece. In the modern game i just think of Sunderland as being good for freezing cold rain and a wind that cuts you to ribbons. Good stadium though and when it gets a roar on, its one of the few remaining grounds that isnt a total morgue.

  13. Robert Exley

    Dec 03, 2015, 20:59 #80195

    John F - I'd say they lost it in the late 80s when live Football stopped being a rarity and it was no longer they only live game of the season shown simultaneously on both channels. Although the all-seater Wembley wasn't long after, so it's roughly the same time

  14. Website Admin

    Dec 03, 2015, 20:42 #80194

    Mark - The reason a lot of posts are removed are not necessarily because they are abusive, but because we try to discourage trolling and if they are allowed to remain, they get the attention they seek. It's hard enough policing this without encouraging people to post under different guises. We are looking at different approaches to this, but frankly so few people use the comments section now that we are no inclined to invest any significant time or funds into it at the moment.

  15. John F

    Dec 03, 2015, 20:06 #80193

    Another good post Rob.BBC showed a re run of the 73 final last May.Leeds were extremely confident in the pre match interviews they just did not contemplate losing.Some brutal challenges going on with Bremmer being in the thick of it,he was a tough little so and so.My memory as a ten year old was that the black cats were lucky but having watched it again Sunderland played really well that day.F A cup finals were a bit special in those days Ive been trying to recall when it lost magic I think it was when Wembley became an all seated stadium.

  16. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 03, 2015, 19:37 #80191

    Sometimes the editorial policy is a bit wacko "stick to the subject" has been wiped along with Jeffs reply. I took no offence was mildly amused and note it has kicked off a Klopp love in... Oooh er! Maybe the odd humorous non sweary or aggressive phantom input should be allowed. Old Badarse thinks it cowardly but aren't we all under assumed names anyway??

  17. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 03, 2015, 19:23 #80190

    Mbg - after missing out on Klopp who is rocking the scousers. Wouldn't mind having a proper football man running things. I think the Nevilles should be watched. I wonder if it will go the way of the Charlton brothers with one relatively successful as a manager and the other more of an executive. Times I think are starting to get interesting. Events are also making Arsene look a very old man!

  18. CORNISH GOONER

    Dec 03, 2015, 18:36 #80187

    Thanks jj - I am always bad in the mornings but can confirm that I too caught the Klopp interview &, yes, it made me smile. Whereas when Webster is banging on about Ghandi & other blithering nonsense & casting blame at all & sundry, my usual response is to find something to chuck at the TV. Fortunately, my wife & dogs recognise the signs & steer well clear. Must learn to chill a bit.

  19. jjetplane

    Dec 03, 2015, 18:21 #80186

    CORNiSH I picked up that Kloppite bug too and looks like it will stick around. Makes you a bit sleepy but smiley with it and errr what was the subject - ahhhh super Sam who has got them back on track so could be a WBA type game - just hope Webster's Weevils are not mistaken for Newcastle. Anyway, back to Klopp ....

  20. mbg

    Dec 03, 2015, 17:25 #80183

    Mark from Aylesbury, could it be any worse? it would be like a breath of fresh air, a real new dawn not the false ones we keep hearing about season after season after season.

  21. CORNISH GOONER

    Dec 03, 2015, 17:17 #80182

    Stick to the subject? I don't think so - I have been increasingly suffering from an aggravated AA condition (no not that one - it's an aversion to you know who). It is impossible to get treatment on what is left of the NHS so I shall have to go private BUT it is a comparatively new mental problem which lies dormant for years &, therefore, very few specialists are able to help. Could one of the few remaining "believers" on here offer some assistance or advice? A. Webster's removal would obviously greatly help but I am 75 (but much better preserved than the old ostrich Webster) & just can't wait that long. To make matters worse, my wife of 49 years who hated football with a passion that has to be seen to be believed has now gone down with a bad case of Kloppmania. I am worried it might be contagious. Please help.

  22. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 03, 2015, 16:46 #80181

    Stick to the subject- you are not sticking to the subject!

  23. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Dec 03, 2015, 16:35 #80180

    Interesting read about Sunderland's history; even more interesting to see that even in the 1960's they were still a lower-half of the table side, as they have been really ever since. I really used to like Roker Park, a real good old-fashioned ground - in the proper way.

  24. jeff wright

    Dec 03, 2015, 14:04 #80177

    The most notable game v Sunderland that I have seen was the FAC semi at Hillsborough back in 1973 the terraces were jam packed and with supporters crushed up against the iron crash barriers. The turnstile attendants were letting anyone in who handed them a five pound note so the attendance must have been well over what the official figure that was given for the tie.I don't know if this practice of letting in supporters without tickets if they paid money to the turnstile attendants was still operating at the Liverpool v Forest disaster but if so then that would explain the overcrowding that day.I have never heard or seen anyone bring this up though over the years in the various enquiries that have been held.It's a long drive back from Sheffield after a defeat and as we saw recently even under mighty Arsene we are still losing cup ties there to teams from a lower league. All the Prem sides won their ones against the lower sides Tuesday night so it looks like their squads are better equipped to play in the domestic cups than our one is because some of those sides had young players in them as well and they unlike our ones against Sheffield Wednesday were up to being able to cope with the occasion and opposition. Klopp is proving that a change of manager can make a difference he inherited tippy tappy watched Barcelona train Rodgers squad and has turned them from deadbeats into winners. He doesn't put up with excuses about fatigue and injuries either.Herr Klopp looks just like the sort that we need to revitalize the stagnation and apathy that Wenger has sunk us in.I also think it is a good idea to keep an eye on young G Nev he could be one for the future when Arsene ( yawn) eventually departs.For many of us this can't come soon enough. The game v Fat Sam's Sunderland will do nothing to help fill the ever increasing numbers of empty seats at Stan's coliseum of profits.

  25. supporter

    Dec 03, 2015, 13:22 #80175

    With Fat Sam stating that stiffening his defense was the priority and our rapidly dwindling fire power, looks like a 0-0 to me

  26. peter Wain

    Dec 03, 2015, 13:18 #80173

    OGL incomprehensible decision not to buy anybody (because no one who he could buy was good enough for us) in the summer is even more ridiculous with each passing day. Now we are being told that he will not buy in January as prices will be too high. I bet season ticket prices are hiked up in May though. Wenger out now and take the board and owner with him. We need at lease three players in January but will we get them - no. Another loan player with a back problem is most likely.

  27. Westlower

    Dec 03, 2015, 11:35 #80168

    The first time I saw Sunderland back in the 60's was primarily to see the great Jim Baxter. He joined Sunderland for £72,500, a record for a player joining from a Scottish club. His greatest days were as a Rangers player & his career declined in England with Sunderland & Forest. Baxter scored both Scotland's goals when they defeated England 2-1 at Wembley in 1963. He started on £22 per week wages at Rangers. Even on those lowly wages he bought himself a Jaguar car to attract the women. He was a womaniser, gambler & drunk, in fact everything an English teenager aspired to be & I was in awe of him strutting his stuff at Highbury. In the 3 home games v Sunderland during Baxter's time, the Highbury crowds were a lowly 25,699, 30,864 & 20,482. And at a time of England's world cup success. I'll be back at the Emirates on Saturday in the knowledge Sunderland wont have anyone resembling JB in their ranks. Jim never did coach driving but Sam loves it. Must remember to take a good book to read. 0-0 anybody?

  28. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 03, 2015, 11:00 #80164

    So Gary Neville takes his first steps into management. He will be worth looking at what he does. Always found him insightful and not overly bound to UTD. Would a management of Arsenal by Neville work? Could be very interesting.