Arsenal Circular 111 – Sunderland victory was a triumph

Context is everything



Arsenal Circular 111 – Sunderland victory was a triumph


Ed’s Note – Graham Perry sends out his views on matters Arsenal to an email list and happy for us to reproduce them for a wider audience. What follows is the text from his email sent out yesterday…

Context is everything

First, a draw at home to THFC, a defeat at the Hawthorns and a draw at Norwich – adds up to two points out of nine. Once again a bad November
Second, the injuries – Cazorla and Sanchez – both missing a number of games to add to Welbeck, Wilshere, Rosicky, Arteta
Third, the rise of Liverpool and THFC unsettling our hopes for a challenge for the title
Fourth, a revival at Sunderland under the provocative Allardyce
Fifth, the big match at Olympiakos on Wednesday.

Forget that AFC are in the top four and Sunderland are in the bottom four. That is static analysis. Football is about movement and trends and most of all results.
Sunderland with four wins in six are against AFC with no wins in three (Dinamo Zagreb excluded)

So it is not a surprise that we are nervy and anxious and unsettled.
We were there for taking – another setback was on the cards with us sliding out of the top four as we head for Greece.
The result was a real triumph. There was fight and determination and no sacrifice of the passing game for long balls to Giroud.
The team kept to their ways, played the passing game and came out on top 3-1 with three good goals – including a classic Ozil pass for Campbell to slip through the keeper’s legs
Of course we were nervy – the players knew things were not going well – they were anxious – we were anxious - and Sunderland had their chances on their quality counter-attack.
As Wenger has so perceptively said – in football confidence comes slowly and goes quickly.
Like golf, like cricket, like politics, like life – everywhere it is the same – everyone, individually and collectively, needs self-belief – even more so when things are going wrong.

That is why it was such an important result and such a good result. To come through all the negatives and all the doubts and end up with three goals and three points is just what was needed.
There were other positives – Ramsey back in his best position. OK he missed chances but he was there to miss them if you get my meaning and then at the end he was rewarded with the conclusive third goal.
It was important to have the Ox and Theo back as well with Theo playing a part in the third goal. Bellerin is struggling after his return from injury and needs time to work his way through an off period. Campbell – so often seemingly lightweight – took his chance and scored the opener.

It all adds up to a significant Saturday – now to Villa and then City with Olympiakos first.
We need to remind ourselves again and again that there are no easy matches. Anyone can beat anyone.
Football has changed – lower Clubs have more funds from TV and buy better players – eg Stoke.
Garde will stir Villa to give their best eager to get one over his mentor and when the time comes in two weeks City will be keen to land a knockout blow.
And with the injuries we remain stretched – football is faster than when McLintock played 60+ matches a season – more demands are made on the muscles and rotating the squad is so important.
Can we get through December without further injuries – possibly – Can we welcome back Jack and Welbeck and Rosicky and set us up for a real title challenge?
How great that would be.

But first Olympiakos – I won’t repeat what was written in Arsenal Circular 109 but Olympiakos, like Liverpool at Anfield in May 1989 will be caught in no man’s land not knowing whether to attack or defend.

0-0 at half time will be fine for us.

Anything can happen in soccer and we could be a penalty down and ten men after 15 minutes. Hold on to your nerves – it will go all the way to the end and we can certainly do it.
Whether we want a Champions League commitment as we make a challenge for the Premier title is another matter.
I cannot hope that we fall short on Wednesday – I do want us to win but if it goes wrong we will have a freer hand to go for the title.

Ed’s note – Graham has responded to the comments made to his previous circular last week after the Norwich game. His responses can be read on the comments at the bottom of the relevant page here


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103
comments

  1. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 15:52 #80494

    westie, they'll certainly not need mine or any other Arsenal fans expertise if and when the time comes, and certainly not wenger fans, because they'll get their arses off their hands, having done something about it once, they'll do it again if need be, they'll certainly not let themselves get into the same mess and tired old rut we're stuck in. As for my strategy (thanks for letting me know I had one) how do you know it's not working, it's widely believed he was one game away from resigning, the first FA Cup (the competition him and his fans treated with contempt for so long saving him, and it's also widely believed this is his last spell in charge, and if things go pear shaped this season like they usually do that could come sooner, (unless the third class FA Cup saves him again) and as for this so called strategy it's certainly working among his followers.

  2. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:42 #80467

    Westlower - no they didn't. LVG is not doing a very good job, is he. Nor are the other 'top' managers at AFC, MCFC or Chelsea at the moment. Just maybe the Leicester manager is outperforming all of those. Just maybe Leicester's 'advantage' of less matches and injuries is dwarfed by the fact they're 100th of the size of those other clubs. You keep focusing on the former though, unable to countenance the possibility that there are managers who do more on less resources than dear old Arsene.

  3. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:23 #80465

    Man U's resilient squad didn't cope too well in Germany did they? Loved the paper description of Fellaini as a bar room brawler. On occasion he makes Costa look like an angel. Of the current top 4 sides Leicester have 2 injuries, the other 3 contesting Euro competitions have 23 between them. At a stroke that reduces the usable squad to 17/18 players, which limits rotation to keep players rested & fresh.

  4. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:20 #80464

    EG - Exactly, the search for reasons as to why Leics, those battle worn, ruthless and multiple title winning giants are gaining an advantage in the title race is nothing short of laughably pathetic.

  5. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:03 #80455

    Our poor Euro teams - how were they to know before the season they'd have to play all these games? If only someone had let them know so they could create appropriately resilient squads. Without that Euro 'distraction', a club of Leicester's size and resources should simply saunter to the title now. It's not fair!

  6. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 8:52 #80451

    @mbg, Maybe you should move your sh* t stirring, agitating expertise to OT and show the disenchanted Mancs how to start a revolution against their manager? Sadly your strategy isn't working very well at AFC, as TOF continues unbowed by your dedicated moan(s) a day Chinese water torture. Herr Klopp must rethink his strategy of playing Sturridge through the pain barrier as he pulled up with a hamstring strain at the weekend. Never mind, Daniel is still fulfilling his main function as making up the number of homegrown players in the first team squad. Meanwhile Leicester are laughing their socks off watching our Euro teams picking up new injuries & having very little recovery & preparation time before the weekend games.

  7. mbg

    Dec 08, 2015, 23:22 #80449

    jj, one things for damm sure the mancs fans will not sit on their hands with their mouth shut like little wengerite sheep waiting for and hoping for it all to come good for ten years plus.

  8. mbg

    Dec 08, 2015, 22:51 #80448

    We now know who/what to send for when the carthorse gets injured, it's not right laughing.

  9. mbg

    Dec 08, 2015, 22:40 #80447

    Did you see TOF in conversation with one of his staff as the players trained (well larking about having a bit of craic)Shad Forsythe the head of performance (whatever that is, or meant to be) i think it was, standing there head going up and down like a nodding dog agreeing with everything he says ( I wonder do any of them have a say or an opinion on anything, or dare give one) probably agreeing with him that Sanchez be on the bench next week.

  10. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 08, 2015, 20:50 #80446

    I admire you Westlower trying to put a positive perspective versus the online groaners. Non stop criticism by the usual suspects.

  11. jjetplane

    Dec 08, 2015, 19:36 #80445

    'I believe if the mental strength is top top with a good speeerit then a player who looks after himself can play indefinitely. Take Jack W .......'

  12. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 08, 2015, 19:26 #80444

    10 years of the most injuries in the league. Players have come and gone. The medical staff have changed. There's one constant. Work it out.

  13. jjetplane

    Dec 08, 2015, 19:15 #80443

    Mahrez and Barkley to mention two are streets ahead of Ozil this season. I like Ozil and he has a unique brand of resilience but this needs to be coupled with players more disciplined the an Ramsay or Flam who need to stop shadowing each other. A word on the BFG who looked even slower than usual at the weekend. He really is a dreadful player and to think it must have been Webster's dream that with WC players in the team everything would fall into place and the trophies would be forthcoming. Anyway, here's hoping for alot of pain for the Mancs tonight. Had almost forgotten about United fans and their sense of entitlement. Let's hope they have a decade without trophies ...

  14. jeff wright

    Dec 08, 2015, 18:41 #80442

    Yep, Ron there is no doubt in my mind that both Ozil and Sanchez were sold by Real and Barca because they were considered surplus to requirements. Players such as Messi and Ronaldo are kept chained up!

  15. Ron

    Dec 08, 2015, 18:01 #80441

    Good points Jeff. 85175. Ozils doing a lot better, theres no doubt, but yr spot on hes not bossed a game v a good side since hes been there. Theyve been waxing on here all weak about the so called pass that split Sunderland wide open. He didnt actually do that. The pass that found Campbell got there because the defender had gone awol.Fat Sam has probably eaten him for his supper since, though ive seen no reports on cannibalism in the NE. Theres a innate desire on here for Ozil fans to be able to claim hes the dogs balls as a PL player. for me hes not made it yet, far from it. Yr so right abaout Sanchez too. Hes a good player and a credit to his profession, but no, hes not good enough to hack it at the very top level of football. Its Arsenals best chance of keeping him that he is 2nd tier (like Ozil), though any one of the cartel here could buy him given enough encouragement. Hes probably the next one out of the door.

  16. Westlower

    Dec 08, 2015, 17:48 #80440

    Further to my earlier point that Doctors should decide if a players fit to play. Did Chelsea's Doctor Eva Carneiro try to dictate to Maureen who he could pick to play and who he couldn't. Can't imagine someone with Maureens massive ego would take too kindly to being told what he could do re his team selection. They nursed Costa through a lot of last season with a hamstring strain & mostly got away with it. There has to be more to the fall out between them than her attending to Hazard when instructed by the ref to do so. Why employ medical staff if they don't have the definitive say on fitness/health matters?

  17. Ron

    Dec 08, 2015, 17:42 #80439

    Westie - in football even at Semi pro level there are players who think they cant play with the slightest knock or twinge. Basically such players are a pain in the arse. Medico technology available to Clubs at the top nowadays show each twinge and more importantly the risk of impending twinges and pulls. The scanning tech is very good. Klopp clearly thinks Sturridge is one of those players so hes rightly told him to fess up as to his real state of health and get fit or his use is compromised. JK clearly has fibre and its clear hes not phased by any such player, he has courage to challenge such players and hes not going to be dictated to by a player who s probably spun all sorts of myths about his fitness to previous coach's. Its maybe why hes not at Chelsea now. Maybe Mourinho sussed him out too? You spin on every day about fatigue, tiredness and red zones etc. I can say with certainty than many physios, many players and a lot of coaches at decent level football think its all a load of old b-----s that been invented by players, weak coaches and used cynically by players at Clubs who are run by coaches who wont challenge them. Work it out for yself if AFC have such a coach, though we all know you couldn't even contemplate the thought, never mind the prospect. Arsenals 10 yrs of chronic injuries might give you a clue. In Italian football, youre fit unless its blindingly obvious youre not. if you argue too much that yr not fit, the Clubs front door is always open.

  18. jjetplane

    Dec 08, 2015, 17:19 #80438

    So OBram still thinks Maureen is the special one (well he would) and Stan knows Arthur is still the magical one if the envelopes keep falling on the ranch lobby floors but the implosion that would beat the lot is a total Neville fueled catastrophe at Valencia and Gary reverting to type before he got the (I love) SKY number. Last point concerns WESTIE who by default still thinks Arsenal are top notch entertainment. Take your pick from a number of current sides but Arsenal look most ordinary indeed. Only have to look to Stoke who are like the old one now with bags of talent. Then little Bournemouth who beat the champs at the Bridge. How long as Webster been trying to do that? Webster's lads also do themselves no favours with their silly arrogant goal celebrations. They are beginning to make the Spuds look civilized by comparison. Tacky Arsenal - who would have thought it? And now for some plate smashing in 'much anticipation.' A big game yet never as big as Bournemouth winning at the Bridge ....

  19. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 08, 2015, 17:11 #80437

    If the AFC squad was a horse or greyhound, Wenger would choose a 3 legged one then cry 'bad luck' when it didn't manage to last the course.

  20. Westlower

    Dec 08, 2015, 17:00 #80436

    If Sanchez was a horse or a greyhound, a vet would make the decision if they could run or not. The vet has the final word not the trainer/coach. In a footballers case surely a doctor or physio asks the player how he feels when training/walking/exercising/playing and make a decision between them based on the feedback they get from the individual? If the player insists he's fine & wants to play, what do you do? What about Klopp's theory that players should learn to manage & play with pain? Did Bertie Mee ever dare tell Frank he wasn't up to it because he looked tired (we didn't know about red zones back then)? The response would have been interesting!

  21. mbg

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:56 #80435

    Bard, and TOF would probably take his word for it and play him, or name him as sub, especially if it were in his best interests.

  22. mbg

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:37 #80434

    Bard, no knee jerk reactions please.

  23. Tom Nash

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:34 #80433

    Other thing I meant to say, we should try and go as far as we possibly can in the CL, if we do manage the right result against Olympiakos; who wants to be in the Europa League ? The schedule of matches is more likely to affect our PL performances than the CL will, imo.

  24. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:26 #80432

    Westlower, you're now positing an extreme hypothetical in order to try and justify what was evidently the wrong decision by Wenger regarding a specific player. But to answer, I suppose you'd have to rotate their rest games and hope for the best. It would also help if you didn't go into each season with a squad that the average fan can look at and predict half of it will be unavailable for great swathes of the season - and be proved right, season after season.

  25. Bard

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:23 #80431

    Westie; surely what you really mean is that we have had terrible luck with injuries and have had for the last 10 years. Wenger had no option but to run Sanchez into the ground. Its only a rumour but I heard Wenger asked Santi if he was available after his cruciate injury and he says he will be ready in a couple of weeks. He's done his stretching and apart from his leg being immobilised he's good to go. In this age of micro medicine youve got to admire the boss's mumbo jumbo

  26. mbg

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:22 #80430

    Graham, I always respect someone who writes an Article as they have the courage to sit down and write one in the first place (I've penned a few myself way back)and never go out of my way to rubbish it for that very reason. The post you have referred to was in Answer to Ron's comment 81521, on one made over the page by another poster on another thread not your Article.

  27. Ron

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:19 #80429

    Hi Westie . i love Canada mate. Winter at -35 never bothers them as you ll know. Its' different' coldness though isnt it to here! Czech Republic s the coldest ive felt in europe. Youve done the US far more than me. Never got past New York yet. Australia coming up in Sept God willing! My last travel ambition is that one. Ill retire to Northumbria then i reckon!!

  28. Westlower

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:18 #80428

    @Exeter What happens when half the team is in the red zone, which is entirely possible, given we're playing so many games? It's a brave coach who leaves his key players out.

  29. jeff wright

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:16 #80427

    Westie as far as I am aware Ozil is not carrying any injury .That was not the case with Sanchez as Wenger conceded on more than one occasion prior to him suffering his hammy . Also unlike Ozil he played in a tournament in the summer and according to Wenger never got a proper break afterwards. So there is no parallel between the two cases. Wenger often, as we know,buys into his own myths and on the day before the game in which Sanchez got injured Wenger was at it again justifying playing him against Norwich ,who are hardly anything special , by claiming that Sanchez could go on playing and playing... it was inevitable that this would backfire on Wenger sooner or later .If Ozil can last out the Xmas period and maintain his current form is a matter for speculation .If he can carry on then until the cows come home is another matter again. Unlikely though this in my view and probably the FA Cup tie will see him rested -if he is still uninjured that is. Sanchez is a good player but as I have pointed out before,he is no Suarez - if he were then he would still be at Barcelona instead of Suarez having replaced him there. Wenger missed his great chance of bringing in a player that could have changed his fortunes by not signing Suarez when he had the opportunity to do so. Ozil in my view was a second best,but cheaper option . I'm still waiting for him to produce that defining moment in Europe for us when he grabs a game by the scruff of the neck and takes us to that other level where he was supposed to take us. Olympiacos are no world beaters so if ever there was a game for him to turn it on in ,then this one is it. Sunderland at home>? You can't be serious.We should be able to beat sides like that without breaking sweat -if not then what is the point of trying to take on the best sides in Europe those teams would soon see of Fat Sam's journeymen.The answer to my question is of course money .

  30. Tom Nash

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:15 #80426

    With no Sanchez (Ramsey is as close as it gets in this Arsenal squad to his type) we lacked drive, fight, common sense against Sunderland. Chamberlain looked as if he would prefer to be making his strange videos than playing, Campbell was mediocre, despite his one- albeit very important (!) touch, the rest were steady, Ozil was easily the best player of either side on the park. We got away with it, thank goodness and yes, we needed a win to restore confidence. For three minutes, directly after conceding, we went at it hammer and tongs and were great to watch, but for the remainder of the game we played football that was beautiful to watch but with no end result.

  31. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 08, 2015, 16:01 #80425

    Graham, you reply to various posts in a very reasonable manner. However, some of it seems to be lifted directly from AW - you use his term 'kill' with regard to young players for example. Then 'always on slender resources' - never were relative to most of the rest of the league and certainly aren't now. Even Wenger's faults you cite are things that happen at every club according to you, so it seems you don't think he has any specific ones at all. It's language and a viewpoint too heavily reliant on the corporate narrative, I'm afraid, without sufficient independent critical thinking. Westlower - if Wenger stated publicly Ozil had a slight problem and was in the red zone, I'd want him to rest him for a match. You're aware that's what he said regarding Sanchez but left that bit out, for some reason.

  32. Bard

    Dec 08, 2015, 15:44 #80424

    Graham; Like Arsenekb good on you for posting replies. You clearly have a passion and want to expand your views beyond this microclimate. My suggestion is that you try and be a little more analytical and add some critical thinking. Im afraid the way I read it is that its a bit 'hope and pray'. Im all for optimism but it has to be backed up with something substantial. Its rather like those who post that we just need to add a couple of worldies in the Jan window. We never add a couple in the Jan window and we never have done, so its a pointless statement. If Wenger was really capable of landing a big one why hasnt he been able to do it in the last 10 years. Why havent we bought a top class keeper since Lehmann till this season ? I could go on but this sort of posting is deemed negative rather than analytical. Whatever you do dont become a cross between Simon Rose and Arseblog. These are posters for children

  33. Westlower

    Dec 08, 2015, 15:33 #80423

    Those of you who believe Sanchez should have been rested, do you also believe that Ozil should be rested now? The problem with it is, why rest a players who's at the top of his form? It would be sod's law he gets injured on his come back game because he isn't fully match fit. He would then need another rest period to recover from his injury. Good job we didn't rest McLintock, Storey, Simpson, Armstong, Radford & co back in 70/71. Whenever did we rest Cole, Vieira, Petit, Adams, Lauren, Henry & DB10?

  34. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 08, 2015, 14:53 #80422

    Graham - Plaudits for replying in detail to many of us. You've certainly nailed your colours to the mast (if they weren't already apparent through our telescopes). I'm sure that the ever-decreasing minority that share your views about our club would welcome more of these inputs, if only for some extra strength in numbers. My view is that the club's uniqueness and what I'd worked out in my own head to be its superiority above others is rapidly eroding. I'd like to respond to some of your points. Those figurative hounds in your response to Bard have already been unleashed (unleaded?) and are p*ssing against lampposts around the emirates; OT after the 8-2, Hillsborough and Abramovich Bridge. They also sniffing each other's ring pieces and committing other canine acts of grimness more recently at the Hawthorns; Carrow Road; and during their quarantine in Zagreb. My point is that on-field affairs have been well below par for a decade and we all know that. Denilson, Bendtner, Sylvestre, Almunia and their cohort almost seem like players of yesteryear, serving up defeats on toilet roll festooned pitches of the 70s. That's how long we've been awful. And the manager, abetted by the board, bear full responsibility for that. Why apologise for Weng for doing that? Your comments to CTgooner are oxymoronic - how can someone be lucky AND win and lose some. When you addreseds David's point, I read between the your lines some basic truth. How many more years of cutting corners and dealing with resultant injuries will it take before all of use see the causal link? As you say the dialogue is enjoyable if a little frustrating at times. Yes please to the missing 110 reports - if they don't help improve my tolerance, they'll at least help to get my log burner cranked up in the morning - ho ho.

  35. Westlower

    Dec 08, 2015, 14:37 #80421

    @Ron, Never been in extremely cold climes, with Zurich & Denver, Colorado being the coldest I've experienced in mid winter. Only visited Canada (good place to catch red herrings, as is Great Yarmouth), Mexico, North East, West, South & Mid USA, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, France & Germany (visited the last 4 numerous times both for work & pleasure), so I've led a sheltered life really. The 'bleak icy winters' were the words in the Racing Post, not mine. I've even travelled thousands of miles supporting GG's Arsenal teams, Vienna to Highbury being the furthest to see a game the same day.

  36. Bard

    Dec 08, 2015, 14:19 #80420

    I am very excited about tomorrow. If we beat Olympiakos by 2 goals we then go through and if we avoid any of the top teams, we can make it to the next round and if we then avoid the same top sides we can through to the next round and so on until we get to the final and if Barcelona lose 10 or more of their first team injured then we could scrape a win. I think we are almost there. COYG.

  37. jeff wright

    Dec 08, 2015, 13:41 #80419

    Well done for spotting the deliberate error Amos ! My mistake I was looking at the Barclay Prem stats on their site for Dec 2013-14 ... however I stand by my views that all we are doing in the league is what we normally do .If we do so in Europe depends on the result in Athens as we normally just scrape through into the first KO round .Whatever way you look at things here on planet Earth there is no way that a case can be made for things having progressed under Arsene in the League Cup and in the Premier league after 11 years of failure .In Europe he is further away after 20 years of failure from winning the European Cup than he has ever been. Triumphing over Sunderland does not change these facts.

  38. Amos

    Dec 08, 2015, 12:03 #80418

    Just a small pragmatic point jeff but here on planet earth we don't have less (fewer) points than at the same games played stage last season. After 15 games played last season we had 23 points and this season 30 points. Hope that's of some help.

  39. jeff wright

    Dec 08, 2015, 11:42 #80417

    Graham, I myself see the win over Sunderland as being no more than another brick in the wall towards Arsene winning another top 4 trophy .You are getting a bit carried away with things and this is shown by your claims of the win at home over Sunderland being an 'important result'. You link this to us being in with a shout for the title and that the win will instil confidence for the game in Athens. A game in which you have somewhat ambivalent views on regarding the outcome saying that ... ."I cannot hope that we fall short on Wednesday – I do want us to win but if it goes wrong we will have a freer hand to go for the title." Hmmm...seems to me old chap that you are making rather a lot of premature conclusions based on what the physiological effects of beating Sunderland could be - or what those of whatever the result in Athens is. Back here though on planet Earth I take a rather more pragmatic view of these things,I see Leicester are ahead of us in the league and that we have won less points so far than we had at the same games played stage last season. While Leicester on the other-hand are way above their total . We have to be realistic here because it's been a poor season in the Prem and the fact that Leicester - who were fighting relegation last season - are top of the charts says it all. We have been very poor in Europe again despite having a genius for a manager and despite us being in the easiest group out of the Prem contingent . Wenger though has again come up short in his quest to win is holy grail. Stan however will be happy because the main thing is that Wenger won the group stage money and that is what matters to him anything else is a bonus. The Prem campaigns are set up to win the qualification to do this every season. I see no signs that there is any ambition to buy the players needed to better that scenario. Wishful thinking and arriving at conclusions based on speculation of what could happen is not going to change this fact . Wenger lacks the tactical nous and squad to win in Europe and also deja vu in the domestic league. He might win the FA Cup again because anyone can win it due to the circumstances of luck playing a large part in this and the advantages of squad strength not playing the part that this does over the course of a season in the league. As for the Europa Cup if we end up in it I doubt that Wenger will be taking it seriously with his well known paranoia regarding midweek games producing fatigue , especially with them being played on a Thursday night before Premier League ones, that he needs points from so as to get back into the Champions League group stage to win Stan his 3m dividend - and to pay for his own 8m a year wages. The FA Cup doesn't cover this or the Ropey Cup either. C'est la vie !

  40. Ron

    Dec 08, 2015, 11:29 #80416

    Westie - youre the master of the red herring. You really shdt jump on every media bandwagon that you clap yr eyes on. The Utd 'boring ' thing is the latest thing i see. Is it really that bad? Truly? Take a look when youre not reading the Daily Mirror or the odious Mail. I did like your ' its best to rest players when theyre injured' policy though mate. Thats the best one of 2015 without a doubt. I see 'bleak icy winters' have joined 'gruelling journeys' from Spain and Germany et al. Its a hard life isnt it! Not sure youve travelled very much but we dont know what a bleak winter is in the UK, believe me. Theres a lot of impressive defending in the PL this season. Palace last night was a first class away performance. Always thought Scott Dann was useful and could have done a good job at AFC. About 6 Mill from Bham or Blackburn would have got him 3 or 4 yrs back. Wenger doesn't 'do' real defenders though. Good to see GG gets an early Xmas slag off from you mate. Im pretty sure football started for you in 1992. You certainly weren't up at Anfield with us in May 89. Wenger and this flakey lot today wont ever get close to that no matter how much you hero worship the bloke.

  41. Bard

    Dec 08, 2015, 10:52 #80415

    Westie; I do love the groundhog day nature of your posts. You are the sites very own black knight. Your posts bounce between. too many injuries, we cant compete because of money, we are too tired because of midweek footy and yesterdays, we dont play boring football like some of the teams that win things. Round and round it goes. Fantastic mate. Im like that when the wife asks me to go shopping.

  42. Graham Perry

    Dec 08, 2015, 10:52 #80414

    BARD (85076)
    I like your digs but they are misplaced. A draw or a defeat against Sunderland would have had the Hounds of War unleashed. The win is a big boost and it does not undermine our title aspirations. No team is walking away with the title. Murdoch money has made the race for the title more democratic and more open. We are second and two points behind the leader. Time to get behind the team rather than knock the team?
    GOONERCOLESBOY (85078)
    You are right – if not time to be cheerful it is time to be positive
    AMOS (85079)
    You are right – I am not a PR man pushing a chocolate bar or a new chair or car. We may yet fall short – that is possible. For now we are in with a shout so let’s shout A-R-S-E-N-A-L. If we fall short you will not find me hiding. That said our position in relation to Chelsea does not matter because they are having such problems – triggered in my view by his treatment of the female doctor. He really angered people within CFC bit then Mourinho is one of the few in the game that I loathe – really cannot stand him. Pleased to see him get his come uppance – his treatment of the Reading Ambulance people was horrendous.
    MIKE (85081)
    You are right – the injuries are part of the context. So are 2 points out of 9. It is always the bigger picture. The perspective, The 9 months.
    ARSENEKNEWBEST (85083)
    I can always send you the previous 110 – wrapped up for the Christmas Tree. No mistletoe though. The reference to N Korea is so wide of the mark – it diminishes your comments. By all means be frustrated with Arsene – his touchline antics but those that like him should not be ridiculed even humiliated. A difference of opinion should not have you reaching for the garbage. It is football and there are different views. Let’s be more tolerant of each other – Mourinho apart!!
    JEFF WRIGHT (85086)
    “Premature in its conclusions”. The only conclusion was that we are in with a shout. The win was important. The boost before the trip to Greece was crucial. The dressing room will be more confident. All so important. I sense you are angry with Wenger and want him to fail. Others feel like that. Maybe he will fail and you can celebrate with a dance around EROS in Piccadilly Square. Some of us want Arsenal to win and if that means Arsene wins then great news. But lay off the contempt. It is not justified by his record. Just my view.
    CT GOONER (85110)
    Don’t let’s pretend luck does not play a part. Sometimes things go against you – red traffic lights all the way when you are in a hurry. It happens. You win some and you lose some.
    PETER R (85120)
    My friend of many years standing and we have disagreed for quite some time. Peter always make fair points – small midfielders, predictable, flattering to deceive. I can give you lots of negatives about Wenger and here are some – Almunia, Senderos, Denilson, Bendtner, Ashavin, - there are others. We never mastered Drogba. We dropped from top 2 to top 4. We sold our best. All true. The players were poor signings. It happens to every Club without exception but the bigger picture is making sure we are in a position to compete. We have the stadium. We have financial stability. Our future is assured. We have never become relegation battlers or even mid-table failures. Always in the top 4 – always playing football – always on slender resources. He gets my vote for these reasons. I have never met Arsene – people tell me he is excellent company. If he succeeds this year – wonderful. If he falls short let’s see the circumstances. I am not stubborn. I am not one of those who will not see. I still believe he can deliver. Let’s see
    SEVEN KINGS GOONER (85129)
    You are right – the pitches are better; painful tackles from behind were accepted (remember Adamd and Bould on David Hirst at Highbury about 1993. It was GBH. You may also be right about the emphasis on speed in training and the need to restrict younger players to fewer matches. For me it is just that the game is played at a faster pace and that creates problems. If you look at the Anfield game in 1989 the players all seemed to have more time. Thanks for your contribution – good to read.
    HICCUP (85132)
    I think you are taking the pea. Isn’t it the case that there are no easy games – no automatic bankers. How many readers thought Newcastle could possibly win?
    JJETPLANE (85138)
    Another contribution intended to take the pea I think. Not a problem. That is democracy. Everyone is entitled to express a view. I think there is an additional point – everyone has an obligation to be reasonable and to express differences without insult or humiliation. Maybe it is the influence of the Westminster bearpit. Frank M was one of my absolute heroes. In the dressing room after the 3-1 defeat in the first leg at Anderlecht he was brilliant. Bob Wilson says he boarded the coach convinced the final was won. I also remember his piledriver goal against Wednesday in the snow when it did not count because the match was abandoned due to snow showers. I love Frank in the same way I loved Joe Mercer, Dave Bowen, Vic Groves and others who gave everything in every match.
    MBG (85140)
    You are right – I did not make it up. Instead of rubbishing the article – very easy to do – why not give me reasons why I am wrong. Insult is so easy. Come on – give me a hard time but with good argument.
    DAVID (85145)
    You make a fair point – that Arsene’s failure to invest has cost us dear. I don’t agree but it is a point that needs to be answered. I do not know the details of the on/off signings and I think we would be very surprised but I always regret that Coutinho did not come. But signings are not an immediate cure-all. They need to be balanced with numbers in the squad, youngsters who have signed on the basis that they will be given a chance. They you have to allow for later developers – Coquelin for example. If Wenger has confidence in players coming through he can kill their ambition by signings. These are all points that go in to the pot. Then there are the injuries – in his forward planning how big a squad does he have to allow for.
    Apologies if I have not got to everybody that responded – the dialogue is enjoyable – let’s keep it going.
    On Thursday we will be talking about the Olympiakos result and the upcoming Villa game – Will Remi Garde spring a surprise and stir Grealish into a turnaround performance?
    I am now on Twitter @arsenalcircular

  43. Alsace

    Dec 08, 2015, 9:55 #80413

    We are all pleased and relieved after a win, but some people like to offer a balanced view of a win's significance. We give teams too many chances because of our tactical posture, which is bound to result in a frequent sucker punch. Let's try and see the world as it is, rather than how we wish it was, and take action to change it. It's just a faster route to the world being actually the way we wish it to be.

  44. Westlower

    Dec 08, 2015, 9:06 #80412

    After the FA Cup draw the bookies have revised their odds on Sunderland to 13/2 from 12/1 for the PL game last weekend. Arsenal are generally 13/2 joint favourites with Citeh, but Corals have them 11/2 clear favourites to retain the FA Cup. Arsenal are generally 2/1 to qualify in Greece tomorrow. Funny comment in Racing Post, re BT having invested £zillions to show live ECL games, fearing MAN U will qualify & having to go through the icy grip of a bleak winter knowing there's at least two more live United matches to endure at the end of February. Mind you there's plenty of pragmatist's on here who reckon that is THE way to play football, especially among our pub team trained coaches & admirers of GG's offside trap. Why be positive when it's easier to be negative? Is it groundhog day with mbg still wanting Wenger out or has he had a change of heart as it's the season of goodwill?

  45. mbg

    Dec 08, 2015, 0:18 #80411

    jw, yes what was that all about ? was it some kind of French jig ? more to the point had we just won something ? all that was missing was some bouncing.

  46. mbg

    Dec 07, 2015, 23:26 #80410

    John F, good post, I think we all know the answer to that.

  47. Cyril

    Dec 07, 2015, 22:56 #80409

    I've said it once and I will say it again. - Rest in peace -Ernie. Painful news.

  48. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 22:35 #80408

    Arseneknewbest the dummy must have been a bit smelly and gawd only knows what it tasted like! Anyway it was only Sunderland at home and a quick wave at Arsene , who was doing his odd little one off the wrist celeb that he indulges in, would have sufficed. If anyone should have been sucking a dummy it was big Olly after he scored for Everton,great technique involved though but not enough passes made to produce it to have got Arsene rocking.

  49. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 07, 2015, 22:23 #80407

    JW - Agreed. I also thought it was a bit creepy to see him fishing around in his pants/jockstrap for several seconds before he found it and popped it in his mouth. Cole-sky: you seem to be the sort of geezer that could start an argument in an empty room. You're impossible when you're like this! What about the season of goodwill and all that?

  50. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 22:14 #80406

    He also has all those toys that you chucked out your pram Coleseyboy ... Noddy ..Big Ears.. a fluffy teddy and a pipe for blowing bubbles with ... see how they fly ... if Campbell scores in Athens will he celebrate or do that silly , fake sad I can't do one because these supporters loved me nonsense ... that dummy one has been done before though... I think it Tevez did it at United ... so no brownie points for Joel for originality ...it looked a bit embarrassing really considering that chance that he missed recently that even a baby could have scored from.. but hey desperate times and all that wot ! You couldn't make it up.

  51. David

    Dec 07, 2015, 20:24 #80404

    Ron- not sure if you've baited Baddie enough; you need to stoop to the lowest levels of smugness and condescension that only he inhabits. I'm assuming it is a he? Anyhow agreed that absolutely no change this season for AFC- others have: Citeh have slid into the same level of mediocrity as AFC, mourinho has run out of puff, and Spurs and Liverpool have made progress. Arsenal are in the running, but could've been clear had AW invested in more players over the past two summers. Will probably go to the wire.

  52. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 07, 2015, 20:06 #80403

    Bard - seems that Amos wishes to decontextualize his current comments from his stalwart support of both Wenger and Kroenke. Maybe context isn't everything, when it suits.

  53. John F

    Dec 07, 2015, 19:43 #80402

    This game summed up why the fans are divided about Wenger.A good result,two very well taken goals, Ozil and Cech playing very well.On the negative was Flamini, was he given instruction to stay in the holding position because if he was he simply ignored it.He popped up all over the place and then struggled to get back when Sunderland countered.Or was he sent out without any instructions and trusted to use his intelligence.Either way Wenger should of been B******** him or instructing him, I did not see any evidence of either and thanks to Cech we got away with it.

  54. Bard

    Dec 07, 2015, 19:31 #80401

    Come on Amos keep up. You seem to forget youre previous posts. Not really surprised.

  55. mbg

    Dec 07, 2015, 19:17 #80400

    Well TOF has another handy one (or should I say hard one against a top team) maybe we'd take a draw and a replay ?

  56. mbg

    Dec 07, 2015, 18:56 #80399

    Ron, yes indeed the level they go to defend and justify things their messiah does (and of course doesn't) is unbelievable, this one really takes the biscuit, how any body can read that and keep a straight face (I doubt there were many if any) let alone write it, is again unbelievable, maybe it should be sent to Sanchez to cheer him up. And some actually accuse others of trolling, is it any wonder fans keep coming on here day after day to have their say when you read things like that. And you know the funniest thing of all ? no scariest ? him and others, along with no doubt wenger himself, actually believe that. You really couldn't make it up.

  57. jjetplane

    Dec 07, 2015, 18:48 #80398

    Directive from AKB ventral to Dr Perry 'Attack pre Arsenal football at every opportunity. Example Frank McLintock and his ilk were unfit for purpose. Will let you decide how to propagate. We have now dispatched Sunderland in a triumphal manner (use that too!) so let's hit the WOBS where it hurts. With Amos filling in for Badarse who is injured let us keep going and hope the rest are still asleep in March.'

  58. Westlower

    Dec 07, 2015, 17:38 #80395

    Just watched a TV programme where Robert Pires picked a team from the best players he played with: Barthez, Thuram, Adams, Blanc, Cole, Vieira, Gilberto, Zidane, Bergkamp, Henry, Djorkaeff. In addition Petit, Ljungberg & Wiltord got favourable mentions. Story going round that Juventus want Arteta, really?

  59. Hiccup

    Dec 07, 2015, 17:34 #80393

    The win was made all the more remarkable in that we beat a team without the distraction of European football. To beat Villa next week, another team just able to concentrate on staying up, will be a real challenge. Beating the two bottom teams in the league in one week, I think, should rightly be celebrated as another turning point.

  60. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 17:33 #80392

    Amos, Graham is claiming based on recent results, albeit he leaves the win over Zagreb out to help massage the stats to fit his case, that Sunderland were , based on recent stats in better form than us.So his argument is that beating them was a great result in what he saw as being a tough game based on their and our recent results. As I have pointed out to you before though stats taken at face value can be misleading and Sunderland have in reality had a touch of good fortune in a couple of those games that Graham uses for his case . I expected us to win the game and we did irrespective of what our and their recent results were . As I said on Friday the Sunderland game is just one of a number coming up between now and the end of January. When these fixtures have all been played then we can assess where we stand in totality the result over Fat Sam's relegation fighting side told us nothing that we don't already know. Trying to claim that it was a great result is just silly. According to desperate AKB's even dropping 2 points at home to the spuds was a great one !

  61. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 17:10 #80391

    Where in any post have I revered Wenger Arseneknewbest? You're obsessed with the man! You have already conceded that GP has a point jeff in that the win was made more significant because of the 'poor results that came prior to it'. You just haven't realised that you can see his point. Mathc harder to see what point Bard is trying to make though warming to see that he is looking forward to the next win. As the slumps that take place each season are usually of short, though sometimes telling duration Exeter, on the law of averages any infrequent contributor is likely to be found in a more positive spell. Not that one win in the last 4 games (Dinamo Zagreb excluded) is all that positive - just to put it into proper context.

  62. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 07, 2015, 17:06 #80390

    Graham : Your comment about football being faster than in Captain Frank's day, may I counter that with the following: 1. The pitches are so much better today, did you ever see the Baseball ground in the winter? 2. The tackling was far more ferocious in Frank's day - the tackle from behind has been outlawed. 3. Only a few players today know how to give and receive a tackle, however I do think the training today is geared towards the forwards only and the modern offensive player is trained like a 100 metre sprinter and players at that level just break down easier. I also think too many young talented players play far too many games, they should be eased into top level football. We might still have Diaby if he had been given a bit more time to physically develop and perhaps the Ox and Ramsey could have used more sparingly to save them from so many long term injuries.

  63. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 07, 2015, 16:52 #80389

    Then it must be mere coincidence that your infrequent appearances never take place during one of these slumps that take place with fair regularity each season, Amos. Perhaps it is also coincidence that the vast majority of your 'considered' comments consist of meta-moaning about other contributors. Now, which theory is more objectively credible, the 'coincidence' one or the one that holds you choose your moment to try and give yourself a little ego boost via attempted belittling of views that differ from your own?

  64. Bard

    Dec 07, 2015, 16:41 #80388

    My word Amos you have been busy. You go all quiet and then bang we get a win and youre like a rat up a drainpipe. The bleeding obvious vol1. 'bla bla 2 points from 9' or 'big match at Olympiakos' or 'football is about ... most of all results' or' with injuries we remain stretched' or 'anything can happen in soccer'. What would we do without those blinding insights from dear old Graham. Keep up the good work and look forward to reading you the next time we win.

  65. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 16:04 #80387

    Amos,I was referring to Arsene's head to head ,two big ones admittedly, but with Arsene one having never won a competitive game against the Portugeezer's this in reply to Graham's, anyone can beat anyone,albeit you claimed that he said, anyone can beat us.The point being that some teams or managers often prove to be harder to beat than others are with Mourinho being an example of that fact in Arsene's case. I still can't see any point in Graham's comments other than them being another clumsy attempt to try and make a case for Arsene with comments such as, we were were there for the taking against Fat Sam, but good old Arsene saw us to an important victory against all odds. Sorry, but this is just nonsense in a poor season for all the top sides we have less points on the board than we did last term . Now if Wenger was as good as is claimed by some then we would be running away with the league,but we are not doing so and are behind,er, Leicester! And as I said earlier City are not going to carry on dropping points . We have failed to take advantage of the situation and with our threadbare squad will struggle in my view over the festive period when we have to play a run of games. If we do then you will as usual disappear again - some things are very predictable. Such as us beating Sunderland at home was while we predictably lost away to Chelsea ,despite everyone else beating them. You couldn't make it up.

  66. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 07, 2015, 15:42 #80385

    Amos - If anything it's people with opinions like yours who are anti-Arsenal. By revering the club and Wengie like a North Korean personality cult, don't you realise that you are helping to perpetuate stasis and chronic underachievement. Your abject failure to offer critique of the way the club is run makes you part of the problem; not the solution. So point that finger of blame and accusation of "unarsenalness" back at yourself. And as you're so fond of saying to anyone who contradicts you, "does that help?"

  67. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 15:42 #80384

    Just as context should tell you that GP's article doesn't claim we are world beaters jeff context should also tell you that as we are 15 points ahead of Mourinho's Chelsea Arsenal are beating him quite comfortably at the moment. Not something you need celebrate of course.

  68. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 15:33 #80383

    No Amos,Graham said that we should remember that anyone can beat anyone .True, but as Arsene's record against Mourinho proves ,some are harder to beat than others. What was that about context >?

  69. Ron

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:58 #80382

    MGB - yes,' better to rest when injured 'etc etc. I loved that one too. As if theres a choice whether to rest when youre injured! Unbelievable. It reaches a new level of justifying Wengers barmy methods doesn't it. Westies excuses and madcap justifications are a bit like how the athletic fraternity ask by just how much the 4 min mile can be surpassed. In Westies case, Wenger can blow the stadium up, transport the entire squad to Jupiter (lets hope) and empty the firms bank account and it ll still be ok. Lovin it. Comedic or what. You can make it up, because he does, every thundering day!!

  70. Peter R

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:58 #80381

    Is there a change from what has happened to the Arsenal the past 5-7 years ? I think not: We always appear to buy the same type of players, play in the same style, attractive at times, but also very predictable. If we keep doing the same thing season in season out, why should we expect any different end result. We are a long way short of being a top European team, which surely with the financial power available to Arsenal , we should be !! I have the greatest respect for Mr Wenger, but in my opinion he is way past his expiry date.

  71. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:49 #80380

    It would usually be considered unconventional to laugh when losing jeff though less so here it seems. In defence of Graham, though I guess he can do so himself, he doesn't claim we're world beaters. On the contrary, and remember context is everything, he suggests that we can be beaten by anyone.

  72. jjetplane

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:46 #80379

    All very timely that Sanchez has just been voted CALENDAR player of the year which can only mean that Arsene has mopped up on the trophy front over the past CALENDAR decade and not as this groaner site has been bleating on about the lack of er silver since forever. It's the Webster Way .... Hope Alexis has been informed while orbiting above Chile ....

  73. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:38 #80377

    Amos,you always disappear during a poor run of results a case of laugh when you are winning . As the actress said to the bishop you have to take the rough with the smooth.The fact that the expected win over Sunderland is being used as some sort of morale boosting fix to try and stimulate the players for the away showdown in Athens reveals that morale is not good in our camp .Wenger nervously twitching and fretting away on the bench or sidelines hardly helps either,but Saturday's result will mean nothing once the action,or lack of it ,starts .I'm expecting Wenger to go gung-ho for an early goal and large amounts of space out wide to be left open for the Greeks to exploit . Rather than waffle on about how beating Fat Sam's struggler's,elevated ludicrously by Graham in his comments to being world beaters,Wenger would be better advised to try and come up with some tactics that will surprise the Greeks - rather than using the same old ones to play into their hands . Let's face it the Greek scouts will not have left Saturday's game trembling in trepidation at facing us after what they saw in that game.

  74. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:31 #80376

    We have always had many more victories than defeats Exeter but my visits here are still just as infrequent - I kid you not! It's true that I'm taking a gentle poke at the negative nature of some of the comments and you're right to say that nobody should be surprised to find that, win lose or draw, that's the general tone (or a discerned pattern) to be found here. That said the article still makes an interesting observation which perhaps justifies considered comment.

  75. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:19 #80374

    As I said, Amos, you can't kid a kidder. Some of us are able to discern a pattern. You are on here after a victory, following absence during a run of poor results, in an attempt at one-upmanship over those whom you perceive aren't as good as supporter as you. Your comments make that abundantly clear: 'negative after a win', 'the Online Groaner' etc. Your own special brand of negativity.

  76. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:15 #80373

    What is this obsession about how we celebrate Arsenal wins from our AKB fraternity. I'm not sure what I am meant to do. Leap up and down shout and scream? It's almost like an accusation. I mean next we'll be accused on betting money on Arsenal losing! Most odd!

  77. CT Gooner

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:11 #80372

    A win is a win is a win. Perhaps, but when we play like Blackpool, sorry Blackpool fans, why do we have to pay a Kings ransom?? For me the premise of this article is we were lucky to win, with all the negativity floating around, and should be thankful for the 3 points. I'd suggest perhaps we look around to see where this negativity is coming from, it's coming directly from the teams performances. It beggars belief that we aren't confident given our league position and how poor the PL is.

  78. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:07 #80371

    The article couldn't have been written had we lost or drew jeff so of course I wouldn't be commenting on it. I'm not sure that you are commenting on the article but you seem to have accepted that the win has been made more significant because of the poorer results that preceded it, if not the results elsewhere over the weekend, so you have some appreciation of the point of the article. It isn't about whether anyone is jumping up or down whether we win or lose just about the impact of positive or negative trends.

  79. Ron

    Dec 07, 2015, 14:01 #80370

    This thread is heading towards one where Badarse will be back with a sermon on semantics soon. I see his edgy fingers now itching to type. He ll love 'context' as a topic and my bet is that politics and sociology will make an appearance, not to mention lots of 'chums' and 're reads'. Cmon Baddie, lets be having you.

  80. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:52 #80368

    Just a routine win at home against a side fighting relegation Amos .Made only significant because of the poor results that came prior to it.Had we lost or drew than you wouldn't be on here commenting about it .Whereas I would be whatever the result was. I predicted that we would beat Sunderland so I don't really see what your point is other than apparently that I am not jumping up and down deliriously celebrating this .

  81. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:52 #80367

    I'm an infrequent contributor to this forum Exeter so there's little to be read into my absence or presence here at any time. An article headline will pop up on the newsfeeds that catches my attention - as did the seemingly hyperbolic description of this win as a triumph - which the body of the article then seeks to support, and to a fair degree succeeds, in describing its context. It might also have gained my attention if the headline described the win as a disappointment - as it appears to be to some - though the fact that such a headline appears on the Online Groaner might make it less of a surprise.

  82. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:41 #80366

    I don't see that the article draws any conclusions, premature or otherwise jeff - other than that context can give more significance to a regulation win. It doesn't conclude that we won't remain stretched over December, nor that we can beat anyone, nor that we can't be a penalty down and playing with 10 men in the next game. In the context of our recent form and results elsewhere it's a useful confidence boost when we were in need of some positives. Though, as before, I appreciate that any win is a negative for some others the article still makes an interesting observation.

  83. mbg

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:35 #80365

    I see TOF is telling anyone whose listening that he believes we're over the fear factor, no doubt you were Graham, yes of course we are, the fact he's telling everyone we are tells us all we need to know.

  84. jjetplane

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:32 #80364

    An angry, hubristic Amos is what this challenge for a triple demands. 'Let's be having you WoBS' ...... I am really impressed and I reckons loike our Ollie should get some big o' burns to go with the beard loike and I reckons AMOS could bring his Harvester up to Holloway for the big celebrations .... assuming Arsenal can make 4th loike ... grrrrr. Ps also impressed/in awe of Dr Perry's mental machinations and meditations on a football spectacle ..... Stunninly original said The Mail .....

  85. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:27 #80363

    Then I shall reword, Amos. It's nice of you to take time out of 'appreciating the context' to come here and be surprised once more by the same phenomena. I had thought that was the province of goldfish, but there you go. Taking your 'surprise' into account, clearly your absence during the run of poor results was mere coincidence.

  86. Ron

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:24 #80362

    No probs with yr article Graham. A wins a win. Its like someone has said though in that its an article that could be pre dated to any time in the last 10 years really and its an article that you can create a template from and use it next Season by just substituting different names. Yr right though, the games are harder these days and the smaller outfits have closed in on the bigger one s. Long may it last. I forecast 2-0 anyway so im smugly typing away here ha!! In truth there would have been no reasonable excuses had the team lost, though im pretty sure AFC and Wenger could have dreamed up some new ones that we ve not heard yet.

  87. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:04 #80361

    I understood what the gist of the article was about Amos,I just think that it is a little premature in its conclusions.Unless us beating Sunderland at home is now a cause to celebrate rather than one of so what>? All desperation stuff this nonsense to try and pretend that Arsene is on the right track and that the slings and arrows of adversity have thwarted him again this season rather than him in reality having lost the plot long ago and that he is just reaping the rewards for what he has sown.A win over Sunderland at home in what looked like a Sunday league Pub kick-about will not change this any more than whatever the result in Athens is regarding our hopes in Europe. Graham thinks that us losing in Athenss will help us in the league,but if we win he will claim this will give us a boost before Xmas ! You have to laugh.The Greeks however did their homework before they played us at the coliseum and won 3-1 they will have also done it again before Wednesday's decider to see who plays in the Ropey Cup . One thing we can be certain of and that is that Wenger will not have done his homework on Olympiacos and will just trust to luck by trying to outscore them. He doesn't really have much choice in this due to him messing things up in the first game against them at home. But hey, Arsene knows best ! You couldn't make it up.

  88. mbg

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:03 #80360

    So first of all you'd like us to forget that we're in the top four ? (now there's a first for a wengerite) then you want us to forget that Sunderland are in the bottom four (and relegation fodder) well that's more like it, teams like Sunderland and relegation fodder should be routine wins for Arsenal not teams we'd be happy with a draw before the game, have you ever wondered why we're always nervy, anxious, unsettled, with no self belief, and always there for the taking? and can't go into a game ourselves full of confidence, with self belief thinking the other teams nervy, unsettled, there for the taking (we used to be like that you know) maybe you don't remember or never witnessed it, no I don't suppose you have. wenger out.

  89. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:02 #80359

    It's always surprising to find celebrating a win can cause anxiety among some supporters Exeter no matter how many times you see it. My interest is not so much in celebrating the win, any more than Graham Perry seems to, as it is in appreciating the context. I fully appreciate that, in a rather different context, the win is inconvenient for some.

  90. John S

    Dec 07, 2015, 13:02 #80358

    Ozil and Cech saved us at either end and if Sunderland had any decent forwards they could have scored again at 1-1. Our passing was poor, especially in the first half, except for the one moment of magic from our German/Turkish genius that created our goal. Giroud was invisible until his goal (at the right end) which coincidentally happened as Theo was removing his tracksuit on the touchline as if to make sure he wasn't the one who was taken off. He was probably already saved by the Ox being utterly dreadful. I also thought Ramsey was poor and still tries to be too flash when he plays in the central role and it seemed that every time he tried a one-touch pass or flick it went straight to an opponent. Having said that, three points is three points, especially when only Leicester in the top six managed to pick up the same amount of points this weekend. Let's just hope we can get a 2-0 win on Wednesday to spare us the embarrassment of the Thursday Cup in the New Year.

  91. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 07, 2015, 12:36 #80355

    You can't kid a kidder, Amos - I think you've been on Online Gooner enough to not be surprised at the type of comments to be found. Still, nice of you to take time out of your own celebrations to consider those you perceive to not share in them.

  92. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 12:15 #80353

    I was aware of the irony in my use of the 'bleeding obvious' Exeter - that should have been bleeding obvious too! I'm not gloating at WOBs or anyone else just expressing surprise at the angst celebrating a win might cause some. I dare say there'll be a defeat to celebrate, for those who wish to do so, before too long though. The perspective in the article jeff is how context can make a rudimentary win more significant than it might other wise have been.

  93. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 12:00 #80352

    A bit of perspective Amos is required as well though,I was commenting on the article and the let's have our cake and eat it approach to the away game in Athens . In which it is suggested that we can be happy about losing it, so as you say,funny people some supporters! Anyway enjoy your picnic,is Badass there wearing a funny hat and scoffing cakes...

  94. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 07, 2015, 11:57 #80351

    Amos, you asked which statement is bleedin' obvious - then called Graham's point bleedin' obvious yourself. I tell you what else is bleedin' obvious - your silence during a poor run, then return to gloat at WOBs after a win. Next up, Badarse...

  95. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 11:52 #80350

    I'm pretty sure that even some gooners not fully supportive of Wenger are happy to celebrate a win jeff. It's only those who want him out who seem disappointed with it! Strange folk some supporters eh?

  96. jeff wright

    Dec 07, 2015, 11:35 #80348

    If you go down in the woods today you are in for a big surprise... all the AKB's are having a picnic... celebrating a predictable win against a side that were a bit lucky in recent games with this hailed as being a great result. Graham wants us to win in Athens but if we do win depends on the score we could win - but still lose . Good old Arsene has been at it again weaving his magic in Europe.Never mind though because if we do win but lose anyway we can then concentrate with our depleted squad on winning the title starting at Villa away - that should be easy. Probably not though as we are only too aware. A couple of good signings in January and a change of tactics would be more of a reason to feel optimistic about this title challenge emerging rather than yet another load of old heard it all before over the top optimistic spin .The excuses are already in early though just in case we do win or lose in Athens the problem is that Wenger will just carry on regardless anyway whatever the result by continuing to make the same mistakes that got him into the predicament that he has got himself into due to his own ineptness. The usual claims of players returning will make a difference ignores the fact that these players were in our sides anyway when we suffered some bad results this season .The reality is that Sunderland did not take their chances and they had some of them I predicated on Friday that their lack of a goal threat would be decisive although I was not expecting big Oliver to score a goal for them ,but with this current side nothing really comes as a big surprise. History though shows that other sides can't be relied on to not take their chances is you let them have them and we have to face better sides shortly in a run of fixtures that come thick and fast over the next few weeks. Wenger might get lucky then again he might not, it's been a strange season so far but sooner or later some team will put in a run of results toward the end of the season at the moment it's a yo-yo scenario with not a lot in it between 5 or 6 sides at the top of the table.If Wenger's let's see who can score the most goals then,approach will make us that side is questionable because it has failed to do so for the last 11 years.

  97. Alsace

    Dec 07, 2015, 11:08 #80347

    This was a game which could have been from a few years ago. The only real downside of it was that we were clearly straining every sinew not to screw things up. Thank goodness for that but we can't keep that level of strain up for the next 10 games before Sanchez comes back. We also continue to play Russian roulette with a ridiculously high line. WHY??? Why can't we sit back and hit on the break for 10 games and try and stay in the hunt before our big guns come back? Would it spoil some vast eternal plan? Now for the positive stuff. Ozil, Campbell, Monreal, Flanimal. Ozil has really found his feet. Campbell worked very hard, gave the other team hell and took his goal well, latching onto Ozil's pass with the pace necessary to get the job done. Monreal is solid and got hacked off and did something to create the second goal and the Flanimal barked orders and chased as usual, linking up play and for the most part not losing the ball. Much relief all round.

  98. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 11:04 #80346

    That win seems to be causing you some pain Arseneknewbest. Which, in a perverse way, adds further to its context, making it even more of a triumph than the regulation win it would and should otherwise have been.

  99. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 07, 2015, 10:51 #80345

    Graham - Talk about a truism - "Sunderland victory was a triumph". Please give some thought to giving your stuff a bit of originality and genuine controversy. And to think I've missed your earlier 110 or so circulars. Cole-sky, there ain't half been some clever b*st*rds. Oooh, our agricultural friend Amos is back on after a cameo on Emmerdale Farm - did we win on Saturday or somefink? I bet his country cousin badarse is also lining himself up and cracking his rheumatism-afflicted fingers before launching a tirade of inanities. I'm moist with anticipation...Here's a truism from me, If you breath air, your lungs will fill up with oxygen...simple eh?

  100. Mike

    Dec 07, 2015, 10:44 #80343

    A well written article - with the injuries at the moment a 3-1 win is a brilliant result

  101. Amos

    Dec 07, 2015, 10:00 #80341

    Which statement was 'bleeding obvious' Bard? Context is everything perhaps? In the context of a weekend in which Liverpool lost to Newcastle, Chelsea to Bournemouth, City to Stoke while Spurs and ManU also dropped points it was a better result than it might have been. Graham Perry isn't bigging up the performance, though the first two goals were great football moves, just that the result, and results elsewhere gives us a much needed and welcome boost. Bleeding obvious really.

  102. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 07, 2015, 9:55 #80340

    Nothing like a bit of Monday morning positivity eh Bard? When was the last time Utd, City, Liverpool and Chelsea not win on the same weekend and not score a goal? Reasons to be cheerful, part three, courtesy of Ian Dury.

  103. Bard

    Dec 07, 2015, 9:41 #80338

    Thank you for that statement of the 'bleeding obvious'. Does that mean we are on the cusp or off the shoulder ? it was a good result but Sunderland are at the bottom of the table and we were at home. its a sign of how desperate we are that a pretty poor performance, Ozil and Cech not withstanding, is now 'bigged up' to such an extent. All credit to you for keeping so positive. Next up a piece on how we can win the CL even if we get hammered by the Greeks.