Arsenal Circular 112 – Remember Anfield 89

Gunners can do it in Greece



Arsenal Circular 112 – Remember Anfield 89

Theo – The 2015 version of Mickey Thomas?


Dear Fellow Gunners

Much speculation about tonight just as there was in May 1989 when George - without the glare of twitter, social media, phone-ins, email and 24 hour wall to wall football coverage - prepared his team for the match
And yet the phrase Two Clear Goals was uppermost in all our minds.
And remember the context (that word again) – two extra time goals by Ian Rush enabled Liverpool to beat Everton in the FA Cup Final and achieve the first half of the Double.

All they had to do was to hold on against Arsenal and they had the Double.
Ironic then that it was in 1971 that we came from behind to beat Liverpool at Wembley and win the Cup and the Double.
All that Liverpool had to do was to hold on and win the Double.
All that Olympiakos have to do is to hold on against Arsenal and they go through – not us – to the knockout phase.

The build up to Anfield ’89 proceeded – George was in relaxed jokey mood designed to remove the pressure on the players.
You may not know that the build-up was upset when the day before the big match Paul Merson was banned from driving on a drink-drive offence.

The Daily Mirror headline on the day of the match screamed “ARSENAL DO NOT HAVE A PRAYER”.
So they all prayed – we won and even atheists began to believe.

But the pressure was on Liverpool – their fans were about to celebrate the Double – they were the home side.
All they had to do was to keep the two goal difference – even one would do
Tomorrow night the pressure on the Greeks in Greece is on Olympiakos.
They have to hold on – they have to keep us out.
What is that mindset going to do to their defenders – cool, calm and collected?
No they will be tense, worried, concerned and the likelihood that they will concede a penalty is high.
Their midfield will withdraw when we mount an attack – that is to be expected but the tension will take its toll – get to their heads and get to their legs.

I don’t want to pretend for a moment that we will not be wrestling with pressure but make no mistake 0-0 at half time helps us more than it helps them.
The chances will come – remember how Mickey Thomas missed with 15 minutes to go but for sure there were going to more chances and one came and at the death when Mickey redeemed himself with that most famous chip over Grobelaar. We cheered and celebrated and shouted and screamed. Joy unrestrained. What a great moment.

George directed Rocastle and Thomas and Richardson to close down their midfield – disrupt Liverpool’s rhythm – their football did not flow.
Liverpool expected AFC to go in search of an early goal – they expected us to go full frontal for a goal but actually GG made clear that 0-0 at half time was more important.
A clean sheet was what he wanted and what his team delivered.
Liverpool could never decide whether to defend or attack. It was their undoing.

I hope we get to the same position – the tension in the home team dressing room will be unbearable.
It won’t be easy for us either but we know the chances come later in the game – the lunging tackles, the desperate clearances.
If we score one we will score two and if they get one back we can still get a third.
It is not misplaced optimism and of course it can all change if we concede a penalty and a red card.
It can happen but if we keep all eleven on the pitch and we start the second half at nil-nil we are in with a real chance.
And with fresh legs with ten minutes to go who knows?

And then we can think of Villa on Sunday and the title chase.

Fingers crossed.

Ed’s note – Graham has responded to the comments made to his previous circular on Monday reflecting on the Sunderland game. His responses can be read on the comments towards the bottom of the relevant page here


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76
comments

  1. Ozzie

    Dec 10, 2015, 11:28 #80554

    Hi, Westlower. Yes I am aware. I have for some time been wishing Arsenal would play down under - especially as I have witnessed various other teams come and capture a lot of interest and what with Man City buying Melbourne City FC who are our (Melbourne Victory) derby rivals is a bit hard to take. Arsenal should take an interest in Melb Victory as we are the biggest and most successful club in this League and have a huge fan/support base not to mention the young talent slowly coming through. I last saw the Gunners play when I was working in London in 70-71 during the double winning era so will be good to see them play here where we have a big Arsenal following - I have certainly converted a few, including all my family.

  2. Westlower

    Dec 10, 2015, 8:36 #80531

    @Ozzie, Are you aware Arsenal will play 2 games in the Olympic Stadium in Sydney in July 2017? It's 30 years since they last visited Oz.

  3. Ozzie

    Dec 10, 2015, 7:43 #80529

    Greetings all from down under. Not a huge fan of CL but must say I did enjoy that - the return of Lazarus, I mean. We need something to enthuse after the recent dropped points against lesser lights that might have seen the Arsenal nicely clear of the pack. I hope the WBA and Norwich results aren't going to come back to haunt us. I mean, you can handle the odd blip such as against the Hammers and even Chelsea, despite the bottom clubs showing us how to do em. Maybe the current injuries could work in our favour in that some of the fellas given the chance may blossom - take Campbell for instance - did you ever doubt him? And I think Ramsey played more freely without Santi. Have a good rest, our Chilean friend and come back refreshed and ready for an assault on at least two fronts, namely the FA Cup and the League. Anyway, well done in the CL, at least it will silence the groaners for a tad longer :) Say, did you hear about the mass walk outs by supporters over here in Oz over the treatment of fans? Just shows what 'people power' can achieve. Pity it can't be enacted in more serious areas of human endeavour, what? Anyway, there's a few of us ole hippies left that still carry the flower (even if our brains are done in) COYG - back to winning ways against Villa - no let downs after a good result in Greece.

  4. jjetplane

    Dec 10, 2015, 0:01 #80528

    Has it always been this electric coming out out of the group stages as runners up. Thommmmmmmasssss! Seriously though - biggest night since .... since .... Well done Webster! By jove you proved them wrong .... fought them on the beaches .... fought them in the night clubs .... now to give Villa a bloody nose what! I should Coco ...... Thought Stirling was rather Stirling last night and he won his group - dohhhhh .....

  5. Cyril

    Dec 09, 2015, 23:52 #80527

    This is for all the gooners and the scousers and goes out to the mancs - 'so your knocked out and we are in, giroud u win Rooneys's waiting for someone to perform with We scored 3 against u, and they did too The movement u need is on ur shoulder Quack! Na na Na Na na Na na na na na GIROUD ....

  6. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 09, 2015, 23:51 #80526

    Post 85237. Shameful.

  7. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:39 #80525

    Was that as good as Anfield 89 ? will it be remembered in 26 years time ? will TOF be remembered for that in 26 years time as much as George Graham still is ? are there hundreds out side the Emirates singing, whooping, popping champagne and crying for joy ? why not ?

  8. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:18 #80524

    We must have won

  9. smithy

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:18 #80523

    well done lads! Pulled a big performance out of the bag when we needed one! Excellent night for Campbell also!

  10. Gaz

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:16 #80522

    Great!!! We've just negotiated the group stages for the umpteenth time in a row and can now look forward to a knock out round we've failed to qualify from for the last five years! What's not to like about that!!! Ok, sarcasm aside that was a damn fine performance with Özil, Giroud and Campbell quite exceptional. Defence also played a major part and for once I've no complaints with the manager. On the contrary he gets a 9/10 from me tonight...

  11. Mark from Aylesbury

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:15 #80521

    Ye gods Colsey just enjoy the win. Stop obsessing about other peoples Reactions. Yes I am really enjoying it!

  12. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:14 #80520

    Ya gunners ya

  13. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:11 #80519

    Fantastic result and stellar performances across the board. Campbell's pass to Giroud for the second was remarkable - I don't think he even looked up. Cech also had a big game giving plenty of confidence to the back four. A perfect night.

  14. Th14afc

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:05 #80518

    Fantastic performance from the gunners!!Giroud was excellent...Campbell was absolutely fantastic,the guy is winning me over,he's got to be ahead of the ox now on a regular basis based on this performance....ozil,Kos both fantastic....no Europa for the gunners.....now commence with the negative comments mr Wright and mbg

  15. Bard

    Dec 09, 2015, 22:02 #80517

    Great performance. Have I missed something, did we win anything ?

  16. Captain Frank

    Dec 09, 2015, 21:57 #80516

    Westie - Who's your money on to make the first negative post about tonight's result??? Pleasantly surprised to find it's not already here. Terrific stuff tonight and every player did their job.

  17. John F

    Dec 09, 2015, 21:46 #80515

    Very good performance.I like the look of Campbell excellent play for the second.Wenger got it right tonight switching Campbell and Wally over.Very happy not to be in the ropey cup.I do hope Campbell is preserved with when the others start coming back.

  18. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 21:45 #80514

    Make just someone happy and you'll be happy too.......Well done lads!!!

  19. Paul Adams

    Dec 09, 2015, 21:41 #80513

    @Jeff Wright, @ JJ , MBG etc, start singing. La La La La La, La La La Giroud,Carthorse? I think not .COYG, Kudos to you Coleslyboy for your continuing genuine support

  20. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 21:35 #80512

    Mikeymike2711, of course they would, anything to help their messiah's fading reputation and put him in a good light.

  21. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 09, 2015, 21:30 #80511

    Westlower , go collect. Well done mate. Nice win. Up the Arsenal.

  22. Moscow Gooner

    Dec 09, 2015, 20:45 #80510

    Arid debate really about which was better '71 or '89 in performance terms: no doubt in my mind that both THFC and LFC went full throttle against us in both games but the latter were a far better all round team, with a run of league titles behind them. But winning the league at WHL - particularly on a night when we had 30,000 there rather than the 3,000 who were there next time around, makes it the best of all Arsenal memories for me. Closely followed by the Wembley game three days later. Watching '89 in Hong Kong and then having to work a couple of hours later after the game finished would have something to do with it as well...

  23. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 19:46 #80509

    @R/K I've put my money on both Arsenal & CFC to win at 11/10 & 6/5. Already backed two winners at Kempton at 4/1 & 11/2, so I'm resting on my laurels. You need a lot of luck to land correct score bets.

  24. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 19:32 #80508

    The notion of being critical only when a team falls to middle table is an odd one Westie though you are piling up the oddities. We ve had 1. Its best to rest players when their injured 2. Liverpool never fought on May 28th 89 and 3 you ll only be critical of a Coach when decline sets in. All of this in 2 days posting. Its astonishing and theyre all views that defy any reasoned logic or fact.All teams fall from grace and decline. Non have an endless monopoly on top spot or even the top few spots. All of that last post doesn't settle the argument that you began, its just an effort to steer yself away from a position that you cant sustain. Your love of Wenger is akin to a schoolboys juvenile crush on his student teacher and just as nonsensical.

  25. goonercolesyboy

    Dec 09, 2015, 19:31 #80507

    I genuinely hope we win tonight, and qualify for the CL but not sure how many contributors on here are of a similar opinion.

  26. Radfordkennedy

    Dec 09, 2015, 19:27 #80506

    Westie......are you watching the odds tumble on the exchanges there are people seriously lumping on a 1-3 score line and AFC win both to score hope you back a winner mate good luck

  27. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 09, 2015, 18:44 #80505

    Westlower, you've previously stated on a few occasions that your support for the current AFC manager is unconditional. How does that square with your now stated willingness to criticise if they fall into midtable? You won't accept Wenger's culpability in any aspect of anything that goes awry - it's always externals. And never mind midtable, I can recall you claiming the last decade had been more successful than the '30s, cos that team didn't always finish in the top 4. Any part of AFC's history is fair game if you think it makes Wenger look better. C'mon admit it - you've special feelings for the man, he's by far your favourite.

  28. Mikeymike2711

    Dec 09, 2015, 18:22 #80504

    Imagine someone drawing an analogy between May 89 and tonight's match. Nah, no one would do that, would they....

  29. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 17:39 #80503

    @Ron TH weren't the pushovers who've described them as they finished 3rd in the league in 70/71 + winning the LC. Won the EUFA Cup in 71/72 & the LC again in 72/73. They were relegated in 76/77. GG's Arsenal ended Liverpool's aura of invincibility in 90/91, which was a better overall AFC performance than in 88/89. Liverpool went into decline from 91/92 finishing 6th, 6th, 8th & 4th thereafter. @Exeter. The only issue I have with GG is the disappointing way his career ended at Arsenal after getting his team to the summit of English football before fading away. I saw the majority of Arsenal games during GG's tenure, both as player & manager & the good times way outnumber the bad times. My feelings towards Wenger are no different than to all the other managers in my lifetime. Should AFC slide into mid-table in the same way GG & Bertie Mee before him did I will criticise him exactly the same. I cannot see the point of continually kicking the guy when we're only 2 points from the top of the table.

  30. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 17:28 #80502

    Ron, 85248, and well challenged too, and well said, and to think some actually believe that, my God wengers wengerite moonies are doing their best to rewrite and reinvent history in favour of their messiah, and would/will go to any lengths to try and do it, it's more serious than we thought. You couldn't make it up.

  31. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 09, 2015, 16:47 #80501

    Yes Ron, his motives are always very transparent. Time and time again the bringing up and knocking of GG's lesser years in order to place Wenger on an ever higher pedestal. Degrading GG's highlights is a new low though. But there's good odds to be had with flaky, fragile teams. As with the stock market, volatility is the discerning gambler's friend. Obviously individuals will have their preferences based on if they were there, their age at the time etc but I cannot see any how any football fan of any team could ever claim '89 could be matched for sheer drama. It simply, objectively, can't.

  32. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 16:35 #80500

    No need to choose at all EG. Quite agree. That was my view for 27 yrs. Until the learned Westie told me that Liverpool never tried or 'made a fight' of it back in 89, i had never given the topic a moments thought. Hes not having that bulls--t held up in lights on here though and getting away with it unchallenged because its total boll---s, especially as its no more than a cack handed, back door means to sleight GG, Westie s specialist subject, which hes destined never to win with on Mastermind as his general football knowledge seems sadly dubious to go with it, unless hes dug it up off the 11 v 11 site.

  33. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 16:22 #80499

    While yr on yr 'what if s' Westie ( a sure sign of desperation in an debate), what if Spurs hadnt have sold Greaves a yr before? Wd Arsenal have won? I dont know. I dont care. Nor do i care about Liverpool's fixtures either, as thats not relevant. Such was the height of sentiment in Liverpool back then, i d suggest that their fight and motivation was maybe never higher to beat Arsenal than it was that night. You should give it up while your behind Westie. Best not to use other fixtures to bolster yr view either. Its a ploy to deflect from the point at issue that you raised yourself i.e. 1971 or 1989. You've no case to make in my opinion and if you have, you've comprehensively failed to make one.

  34. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 09, 2015, 16:20 #80498

    Surely there is no need to choose which was the greater between 71 and 89. Both momentous - the point is tonight is in no way comparable, whatever happens. Indeed it's an insult to draw comparisons just because two goals are required. And no Graham, tonight is not a kind of final. Finals are not about building confidence for the future, they are about the here and now. I wonder how much longer it will be before you and others realise the club under its current regime aren't building for any future. They have arrived, they are where they want to be - they just want to stay there. I wonder how many more years of evidence will need to stack up before this finally sinks in.

  35. David

    Dec 09, 2015, 16:07 #80497

    Well maybe. In all probability it will end in a 2-1 win to Arsenal. Another heroic failure - AC Milan, Bayern M, Monaco etc.

  36. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 16:07 #80496

    They didnt rule North London for a decade before that night at all Westie. We had been beating them often from 1967 and had ousted them from the LC in 68 too. Gilly was close to 35 up front. Mullery 30 odd, Beal and Kinnear Knowles and a few others were late 20s but whos best days were a yr or two before. Chivers was not fullt established up top for Spurs by then either. Arsenal were favourites to win. TV football started to grow in 88. By 89 it wasn't a big bonanza at all. Tottenham always play above themselves v Arsenal. Yr memory is patently selective. I'm not the one doing the belittling. You are.Yr motivation is to cast a slight on GG who its obvious you have a real problem with given that many, inc myself consider him to have been a far superior Coach to Wenger. You reluctantly credit him when pushed but yr nearly choking when you do so. Try and re write Spurs history if you want too, im sure Finsbury Joe will love you for it. Try not to let the facts get in the way of yr good story though. Totts had been declining for 4 yrs pre 71, 11 game run or not.

  37. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 15:56 #80495

    @Ron You're not doing a bad job of belittling the 71 team yourself. Tottenham were on an 11 game unbeaten run going into that game with Arsenal. They may well have fallen away thereafter, aka, CFC & Man U, & AFC probably contributed to that. They ruled North London for a decade before that night. You were probably too young to fully comprehend the significance of that victory. Tottenham played above themselves that night which is something Liverpool didn't do in 89. I even rate the Arsenal wins at OT when Overmars & later on Wiltord scored the winning goals as good as Anfield. Anfield was the ultimate TV soap drama, never to be bettered for the neutral viewers. Evertonians especially were in raptures. Some Evertonians I know bought the video of the game to give to their Red supporting mates for Christmas. About 4 years after Anfield, I played snooker on the adjacent table to Steve Nicol (rotten loser), John Aldridge (another rotten loser), Ian Rush & Steve James & had to ask Nicol to move so I could play my shot. If Wenger had managed all of those games he would have been called lucky by some on this site, but wait a mo, he was the manager at OT? Lucky, lucky, b**tard.

  38. Bard

    Dec 09, 2015, 15:37 #80493

    Some cracking posts today. Graham has really stirred the s***. The comparison is taking a liberty to be honest.Tonight is only of value financially.

  39. jeff wright

    Dec 09, 2015, 15:27 #80492

    mbg, I'm with you on this Anfield '89 analogy with tonight's yet again Custer's last stand attempted face saving exercise in futility by Wenger - or Arthur Webster as he is now called on here. There is no comparison what so ever between this game and one that was a title decider that became the stuff of legend with a book and movie being made about it. The only movie that could be made about tonight's one is a carry on movie because there is more comedy about it than real drama.

  40. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 09, 2015, 15:13 #80491

    I glimpsed the manure-wolfsburg highlights last night - Oh dear! Anyway, match winner appears to have been a certain Herr Draxler - weren't we linked with him once before our parsimonious manager slammed shut the door to the safe?

  41. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 15:05 #80490

    Can you imagine TOF and his little technicians going into a REAL Anfield 89 scenario ? with real pressure and something to play for ? imagine them taking the field at Anfield that night trying to play tippy tappy against that Liverpool side real players and men also, with wengers excuse for a defence and his philosophies and tactics (or lack off) and trying to pass them off the park and walk the ball into the net ? they'd have been ripped apart, torn a new one, it doesn't bear thinking about, and we can all imagine the arm waving from TOF and the excuses after wards, as someone has already quipped, it's wally through the midfield, it's doesn't bear thinking about.

  42. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 09, 2015, 14:38 #80489

    Graham - I disagree. Olmypiacos's coach and the team ARE certain of their tactics. Sit back, concede possession and hit Arsenal on the break. This worked for them rather successfully in London (remember that game?) and has worked for numerous other teams - save for the big and really skilful ones e.g. cheating Barca, BM etc. - that have turned us over in the CL in the past 9 years. The challenge for the chihuahua man and his bearded bunch of dummy carriers is whether they have the nous to get past the parked bus and score - twice. I don't think the tactics could be clearer really. I would bet heavily on Arsenal having 65% plus possession courtesy of Olympiacos. All provided of course that we don't charge into a 3-0 lead after 15 minutes. If we score one, then we score another, and then we score another, and then we score another, and anotherrrrzzzzzzzz right. Likely? hmmm....

  43. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 14:34 #80488

    ArseneKnewBest, third post down, excellent post, and I only read it after submitting my own, and glad to see there's a lot of others similar to them.

  44. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 14:25 #80487

    Whats clear to me Westie is that youve never played competitive sport to any level. Liverpool were on the brink of the double. Yr much loved fatigue barely comes into it at the moment of play or during it. Had you have seen the reactions of Aldridge and Nicol in particular snarling their disgust at AFC players at the whistle and Aldo in particular not wanting to shake hands even you might change yr view on what that game meant to them. They wanted it for Liverpool as a City, their community, their fans lives demanded it, craved for it and needed it. You can belittle the win as much as you like but youve insulted AFC and Liverpool with yr garbage view. Youve not a clue what a fight is or how a team fights in my opinion when its has to. As for Tottenham, they were by then a team of talented powder puffs, 3 seasons from eventually flaking away into the 2nd Division, full of players well past their best years. Thats the truth of the 71 win v Spurs. The fact that you had an emotional orgasm that night changes nothing. Stick to dog racing bud and p-----g yr money away on bookies. The realities of football escape you totally and clearly.

  45. Graham Perry

    Dec 09, 2015, 14:17 #80486

    BARD (85198)
    Come on you know what I meant.
    You’ve said it yourself I am sure
    If we get one goal the chances are we will add another one or two
    NORTHENER (85200)
    There was tension – the result mattered
    I know there was Hillsborough and deep feelings of loss in Liverpool.
    But no disrespect is intended at all when I say that Rush’s two extra time goals in the Cup final were wildly celebrated and the six against W Ham too.
    Liverpool wanted it – wanted the Double.
    Thanks for your best wishes for tonight
    ARSENEKNEWBEST (85201)
    The comparison is the 2 goal deficit. Liverpool were uncertain in 1989.
    I think Olympiakos will be as well – do they go for a goal or do they sit on a 2-0 lead
    It is not the stars then and now or the players then and now or the managers then and now
    It is the importance of the right result
    Olympiakos will be desperate to win
    We will be desperate to win – that is the similarity - that and the two goal difference
    Best wishes Fatuous Graham
    RADFORDKENNEDY (85205)
    You put it better than me when you say “they might not know whether to stick or twist”
    EXETER GUNNER (85207)
    It is a kind of Final
    Win and the dressing room will be confident for the future –
    The need is there to build up a momentum of victories after Spurs/WBA/Sunderland
    WEAR YOUR COLOURS (85209)
    You are missing the point.
    The League Championship was a prize far greater than the knock out phase of the ECL.
    But we want to win – we want to go through – and the similarity is the need to win by Two Clear Goals.
    WESTFLOWER (85216)
    WHL 1971 – Anderlecht 1970. Great nights – in the memory for many years.
    I have always thought Kevin Howley blew his final whistle 2 minutes too soon.
    I am not complaining because that explosive moment of celebration was wonderful.
    It was his last match and he knew the pitch would be invaded and he wanted to be in his dressing room.
    If I recall he blew the whilst when he was close to the exit.
    Eddie’s goal against Stoke – the tension that afternoon was incredible. But for McNab’s offside at Leeds we would have been home and dry
    But winning at the Lane made it all worthwhile.
    RON (85218)
    Remember how Spurs threw themselves at Bob Wilson when he came out to catch the ball.
    The story is that Bertie was shouting Stay On Your Line.
    What a moment. What a hero – Bob W
    SEVEN KINGS GOONER (85219)
    Your point about 1971 and 1989 – is it because the games are cleaner – no tackles from behind – cameras picking up everything
    Is it more foreign players now than then
    Or is it simply Wenger
    I mean if we were mid-table, still at Highbury, no money in the bank – you would have a point but we are second in the League, mounting a title challenge injuries notwithstanding.
    JJETPLANE (85221)
    “Perry’s Poodles...Dr Perry is off his trolley”
    I am just a supporter – like you and like all the other contributors.
    What connects us is not our political sympathies or our jobs or where we live.
    We want Arsenal to win.
    I am not going to be rude about anyone – even those who have a pop at me.
    None of that is necessary.
    As the adapted election slogan goes “It’s the Arsenal stupid”
    Eat, breathe, drink, laugh Arsenal – that is all
    We are all actually on the same side – aren’t we?
    WESTFLOWER (85222)
    You are rightwhen you say Liverpool were uncertain how to approach the game.
    Not because they were exhausted because of the Cup final and West Ham.
    Not because of Hillsborough.
    Simply they did not know whether to attack or whether to defend.
    Olympiakos will have the same problem tonight
    I just hope we can exploit their indecision
    ROY (85224)
    Actually I know what you mean.
    Bayern M and Barcelona still look beyond us so why try to win
    Real Madrid were the same in 2006 but we beat them.
    Hope springs eternal

    Thankyou for your responses

  46. Gaz

    Dec 09, 2015, 14:13 #80485

    Ron-you're spot on RE the effort put in by Liverpool that night. Quite frankly its ridiculous in the extreme to even remotely suggest they 'never put up much of a fight'. Yet another example of those tied to Wenger rather than the Club trying to sully one of if not the greatest night in this Clubs history (that includes the years 1886-1996) simply because Wenger wasn't in charge...

  47. jjetplane

    Dec 09, 2015, 14:11 #80484

    It's Webster not Wenger WEstIE. Lots of wubberues and then you have the WOBS .... ounding a bit upset there mate and of course you are right. What has anything to do with Wenger apart from the new extension on THAT ranch OVER THere. And you are right - any team could have beaten Liverpool at Anfield when all that was at stake was a piddly big boy trophy. Why why why indeed ....

  48. mbg

    Dec 09, 2015, 14:10 #80483

    I hope your not comparing or trying to compare tonight to Anfield 89, (although it wouldn't surprise many in your attempt to cover up and big up your messiah's failings, especially the first two games of the group)there will never be another night like 89 not even if (and God forbid) wenger were to stay until he's a hundred, and not even if we were to go through tonight (and I hope we do regardless of what some might think) no matter how much you try to big it up. There is no comparison whatsoever between the two teams either, we had a real manager that night who knew what he was doing and didn't need or feel the need to tell everybody he did, not an old past it one who talks rubbish and makes excuses for everything, and real players, men who were willing to give their all, and willing to run through brick walls for their manager and the fans and did, and not little fairies who are always injured and who's only interest is looking good. No no matter what happens tonight there will never be another Anfield 89 and nothing will ever come close no matter how it's hyped.

  49. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 13:59 #80482

    @Ron, Of course it was a wonderful night for all Gooners at Anfield, as it was unexpected & a great drama. All I'm saying is that in 89 Arsenal had all the advantages but in 1971 the odds were stacked against us. If Liverppol had time to recover before playing that last game would we have won against a superior side? On the night they were there for the taking, albeit probably by a one goal margin. You'll never convince me Anfield was a better performance than the Lane. Football on TV was still in its infancy back in 71 and it never got reported with the gusto of later years. Surely you must be able to see that Liverpool playing 8 games in just over 3 weeks put them at a disadvantage regardless how good a team they were back then. The Arsenal of 71 overcame a similar congested fixture list and you're underestimating the mountain that Arsenal team climbed. What the f**k has it got to do with WENGER????????? Why does every debate have to come back to Wenger????????? There was an Arsenal before him you know, as our friend in Ireland keeps reminding us many times every f**king day!!!!!

  50. Tony Evans

    Dec 09, 2015, 13:55 #80481

    Ron - completely agree with your comments re 1989. I wasn't lucky enough to be at the game but even on the TV you could see that Liverpool battled tooth and nail and were in no way fatigued. Gaz - I know how you feel mate and it won't bother me in the slightest if we fail tonight. Knowing Wenger's luck though with getting to the last 16...

  51. cyril

    Dec 09, 2015, 13:35 #80480

    Ron, well said. I was not at anfield but watched in the pub and was missing in action for the next 3 days. There were gooners celebrating still on sunday evening and I came across a load who had slowly crawled back from Anfield. It had taken them over 2 days to get back to London. They were outside the very famous 'old bull and bush' in Hampstead mounting cars. It was something I will never experience again. I went through my school years (80s) being berated every Monday morning by Liverpool fans. It was painful. In fact it felt like we couldn't even win a panel result fixture between 83 - 86.

  52. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 09, 2015, 13:21 #80479

    Westie - Wrong! "Liverpool didn't put up much of a fight". This is a complete myth - They'd been through an undeniably difficult time after Hillsborough but still went onto win the FAC final and wanted to win the title as much as we did. Saying anything else discredits their club as much as it does the achievement of Arsenal that night. Trying to put a downer on one of our greatest nights puts you in a small minority my friend. Don't you recall that Steve McMahon was going round congratulating his teammates and saying "One minute" (to go) while Kev R was on the ground being treated. You'll also remember Steve McM getting the "one minute" treatment for a few years after that every time he came to THOF. Or maybe you weren't going in the early 90s as well? That game was as big to Liverpool as it was to us - end of. That they lost it naturally means that they want to forget about it, but Anfield was jumping that night at both ends and the double was seconds away til Theo, ooops, Mickey took that pass from Alan Smith.

  53. Gaz

    Dec 09, 2015, 13:03 #80478

    Hi Tony. Sadly I wont even get caught up in it tonight whatever happens. I'll watch the game and that's about it. Absolutely no excitement in it for me nowadays as we all know exactly what's going to happen. That's why I'm desperate for a change of manager as it could get worse, it could get better, but at least there's the uncertainty of not knowing which option it's going to be!...

  54. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 12:52 #80477

    Well done Westlower in degrading the 1989 epic on the alter of fatigue. You clearly weren't at Liverpool that night and frankly you dont know what youre talking about. 'Liverpool never put up a fight'! Youre as barking mad as your French idol.

  55. Roy

    Dec 09, 2015, 12:48 #80476

    Sorry I'm with Tony Evans on this one. The what ifs, maybes and gut wrenching anticipation just don't exist with this game like they did in 89. Just can't get that excited about it knowing what's just around the corner if we do pull it off.

  56. jjetplane

    Dec 09, 2015, 12:45 #80475

    'George was in a jokey mood' maybe the patronising AKB recall but we all know GG was well fired up and in a very steely, determined frame of mind. 'I'll whip the crowd up' he said which is something Webster has never or will ever manage. Funny how the comments on LVG could equally apply to Webster and his living on past glories - and some! Defining moment of season so far is the Vardy assist last Saturday. A club in supreme motion while the surrounding fat cats are belly up with dollar signs in their bloodshot eyes.

  57. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 12:41 #80474

    @Ron, You've overlooked the demands on Liverpool during the run up to playing AFC. Their league programme was condensed as a consequence of the Hillsboro disaster. On the 3rd April they played Everton, 7th Forest (FA Cup)e, 10th Forest, 13th Wimbledon, 16th QPR, 20th Everton (FA Cup), 23rd West Ham 26 the AFC. In contrast Arsenal played Wimbledon on the 17th & didn't play again until the 26th. In 1971 we played on 3rd April Chelsea, 6th Coventry, 10th Southampton, 13th Forest, 17th Newcastle, 20th Burnley, 24th WBA, 26th Leeds, 1st May Stoke, 3rd TH. You say TH had nothing to play for but believe me, they fought tooth & nail to preserve their only double winners tag. Liverpool didn't put up much of a fight as they were uncertain how to approach the game & partly from fixture fatigue, Tottenham had no such reservations.

  58. jjetplane

    Dec 09, 2015, 12:25 #80473

    So if Perry's Poodles win tonight they have won the CL? Then beat Villa and that is the PL in the bag. LVG will no doubt be gone this season after a quick stab at the CL and here's Webster and his merry band of beards after how many goes still looked on as would-be heroes. Thought WESTIE had most of the biscuit tin but Dr Perry is off his trolley! Love the Dear Fellow Gunners opening. Like Churchill in the war Lol!

  59. Tony Evans

    Dec 09, 2015, 12:16 #80472

    Gaz - I will watch the game tonight and will no doubt get caught up in the excitement if we make a decent fist of it (big if I know) but afterwards, in the cold light of day, I will be thinking OK great, but which group winner is going to knock us out, as usual, in the last 16! Shame we haven't got a team / manager to inspire more faith, as the 1989 comparison only highlights too well.

  60. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:57 #80471

    Westflower : I too was at WHL in 71, the tension was at times unbearable, no goals for 90 minutes, it just kept building. I think I breathed in and out twice in the last 10 minutes, amazing and brilliant night. I was not at Anfield so I cannot compare the two games but I felt Liverpool thought at 0 - 0 at half time they were home, it really slipped away from them as we got stronger in the last 20 minutes Both games defined my vision of Arsenal - unfortunately AW's Arsenal is a far cry from that minds eye image I have of the 71, & 89 teams.

  61. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:56 #80470

    Great as 1971 was Westie, the two cant compare. Tottenham had nothing to win that night and only had bragging rights to lose. Liverpool were multiple times the better team than Tottenham were, possibly one of the best post war teams and didn't have a history of demolishing nearly all comers to their home, domestically and from Europe that intimidated all visitors at that stage.

  62. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:47 #80469

    Ron : I struggle explaining myself to my mates about my disinterest in the PL and they think I am joking, for years I was such a staunched Gooner & follower of anything Arsenal. Sky, the money and the b*ll**** spoken about our declining standard of British football has finished me off - however I loved the Salford FC Friday night football, that I would pay money to watch on TV, just because it is real. The reason the ex Man U players bought the club is because they know it is the genuine article.

  63. Westlower

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:45 #80468

    As a one off game I believe the 1-0 win at the Lane in 1971 was better than the Anfield victory, mainly because of the reasons Northener outlined. Make no mistake we were up against an excellent Spuds team that night in 71, Jennings Mullery, Gilzean, Chivers. Peters, etc. The win came off the back of losing to closest rivals Leeds the previous week & we played Stoke 2 days before the final league game at the Lane. For me, it was the finest achievement in my lifetime. That week was climaxed by completing the first double in the clubs history by beating a very good Liverpool side at Wembley. TH were the only other club to win the double until that week. The 70/71 team would beat the 88/89 team every day of the week IMO. Hats off to George Graham, as he was the common denominator in both victories at Anfield & the Lane - Arsenal legend!

  64. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:30 #80466

    SKG - and doesnt that oft repeated last ditch goal for City v mighty QPR accompanied by that shrieking oaf Tyler proclaiming 'we d never seen anything like it' etc etc just grate! Football really did start in 1992 mate. I was talking to a 24 yr old the other day about Vardys record and trying to explain that it was only a PL record and not an absolute record that was actually held by the player in 1913 or whenever. He simply couldnt see what i was talking about. The notion of SKY being wrong was incomprehensible to him. The penny eventually dropped that there was actually a League before the SKY league was visited upon us back in 92. It struck me for the first time just how much todays new fans are brainwashed by this fake stuff we see today masquerading as a football league. The guy was a Hammers fan and real football enthusiast too, not a lad who just had a passing interest in the game.Staggering.

  65. Leggsy

    Dec 09, 2015, 11:08 #80463

    With George Graham we never knew the meaning of defeat , we never gave up and you knew that we could do anything . Comparisons with this side are ludicrous ! We can do it but who knows what Arsenal will turn up !

  66. Seven Kings Gooner

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:50 #80462

    "It's Walcott charging through the midfield" do me a favour Graham, do you work for SKY? - because they have tried to create an Anfield 89 for the last 20 years and have failed miserably! There is no game after tonight's match, win or lose that has any relevance on our season, if we were trying to win the CL I would be interested. Theo the 2015 of Micky Thomas - As Arsene would say "are you making a joke Raymond"

  67. Wear Your Colours

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:43 #80461

    I don't think the game tonight merits comparison with that night at Anfield. The English title was a the prize on the table that evening. Liverpool were reigning champions, unbeaten at home for many a moon and the dominant force in English football, as they had been for most of the late 1970's and 1980's. Arsenal had not won the title for 19-years. The fact that the title would be decided between the two contenders on the final game of the season was also quite special too. Nonetheless, tonight's game is still an important game and it will be tough to get the result. Olympiakos are no mugs and as they demonstrated at Emirates they can defend well and score on the break. I actually think we should go a little more 'gung-ho' tonight in our approach with a view to scoring three goals. A 3-2 win seems just as likely as 2-0. COYG!

  68. jeff wright

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:22 #80460

    Well, well ,Graham you really are the master of the preconceived conclusions ! The way I see it is that Olympiacos playing at home,we have lost the last three games we played there, starting the game with a two goal advantage are favourites to win .They can draw or lose and still win - so that is another big advantage in their favour. Of course if do score two more goals than them to better their score at the our stadium -it's called the Arsenal one for European games ,then we go through. Your claim of if we score one then we will score two is one of your preconceived conclusions to which I refereed .Last season we were in the same situation away to Monaco( good old Arsene he is very consistent in Europe) but needing three goals that night - so according to your 'logic' Graham after scoring two goals we should then have got a third - unfortunately we failed to do so and as the man whose parachute failed to open on his first jump remarked,so much then for sky diving. If we do score one goal that doesn't mean that we will score another - it only means we need to do so to win . Also of course we have to keep a clean sheet otherwise we will need to score more than two goals. Should be a dodddle this game! You couldn't make it up.

  69. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:20 #80459

    I had thought this was a match to decide who goes through in 2nd place to the Round of 16. However after reading this article, it must be the European Cup itself that's at stake.

  70. Ron

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:19 #80458

    AKB makes every necessary point there. The rubbish on the menu tonight compared to the one in May 89 is like comparing a divot in the back lawn to Mount Everest. Doesn't even get close to being worthy. I doubt anything ever will. Lets face it, progress tonight is a passport to a beating in the next stage, nothing more. Wheres the tension in that?

  71. Radfordkennedy

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:17 #80457

    Graham....Rocky,Richardson and Thomas oh if only mate.....personally I'm having a punt on AFC to come from behind and win but not by the margin required,I think we all know how this will pan out feigning injuries time wasting etc as well as winding up Giroud to react. I don't know if they've ever found themselves in this sort of situation before but if not hopefully they might not know wether to stick or twist and maybe give us a chance

  72. Gaz

    Dec 09, 2015, 10:15 #80456

    Arseneknewbest (not going to call you AKB for obvious reasons!): Excellent post fella. Quite frankly I couldn't care less whether we progress tonight or not. Go through and we all know we've absolutely zero chance of winning it and will most probably go out in the next round. As for the Europa league its my worst footballing nightmare to go into that crap competition under Wenger. We all know that within a few days of it happening our fans will be proclaiming it's a great competition to win and that success will be used as a springboard for Wenger and the Club to do better in it next season...

  73. Bob Matthews

    Dec 09, 2015, 9:47 #80454

    Arsenenb...you cant polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter !!! That is the illusion our glorious leaders continually sell us regarding our once great club

  74. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 09, 2015, 9:16 #80453

    Graham - Comparing tonight to 26/5/89 is fatuous in the extreme. You're probably going to offend (albeit mildly) quite a lot of Gooners of a certain vintage, and I dare say Liverpool fans would also resent the comparison. Olmpiacos are nowhere near the Liverpool of the 80s - we had a real mountain to climb that night; the 89 game was basically a final eliminator between the two English greats of that season for the trophy all teams used to crave, not a preliminary round for a money-spinning tournament in which we haven't done well for 9 years; our team back then had real fighters - players who gave their all for the Arsenal (Rocky, Tony, Kev R, Nutty, Smudger and every other single one of them) - would anyone seriously compare those stars with players who turn their backs on shots; who mince around and duck out of challenges, and who produce toilet-tang dummies from their shorts when they score? We also had a manager back then who no-one messed with, and who returned some real pride to fans who had gone without that sort of success for 19 years - by contrast, the present incumbent is tactically naive and is known for taking it easy with players (esp the injury prone ones). There hasn't been another game like Liverpool 89 in Arsenal's history since that night (although the CL final loss to those cheating Catalan bawbags in 06 came close). Graham - it's predictable for a devout AKB to talk up tonight's game in such a hollow and insincere way. Your piece reads like a half-arsed first draft of Arsene's programme notes written by a lackey in the basement of the e*******s. If we don't win by two tonight, it'll all be quiet in your and Cole-sky's neck of the woods tomorrow. If they do win, please think twice abut crowing and invoking the "speeereet of quatre-vingt neuf". Try all you like but you cannot polish a turd.

  75. northener

    Dec 09, 2015, 9:10 #80452

    From a Liverpool point of view, there was no tension. The events of the previous month had both put football into perspective and gave Liverpool a backlog of games which after Arsenal's penultimate league game on the 17th of May Liverpool played a cup final, West Ham on the Tuesday and Arsenal on the Friday night. The papers might have thought it was no contest but Liverpool supporters didn't share that view. Having said that, I hope you have a good result in Greece.

  76. Bard

    Dec 09, 2015, 8:27 #80450

    Brilliant Graham.'if we score one we will score two'. Really ? Its good to read such insightful, thought provoking stuff.