Arsenal Circular 113 – The Danger of Complacency

Easy three points at Villa? Think again



Arsenal Circular 113 – The Danger of Complacency

Remi Garde – Former Gunner looking to derail title tilt


Dear Fellow Gunners

Good question for all Gunners or Gooners – how does Arsenal get into our heads each day? I mean we wake up, get dressed, do the family bit but when does the Arsenal moment happen. For some it is Talk Sport or the newspaper on the mat or Sky updates. Each to his/her own. For me it comes when I go from home to office and stop off at Stanmore Tube Station to get my papers – Steve is in charge of selling papers at Stanmore and there is always time for a few minutes chat. Sometimes the bus drivers and the taxi cabs moan because I have nicked their parking space – I can deal with that - Arsenal is more important. By the time Steve and I meet up at around 6am he has read the papers and listened to the radio and has news about our latest injury but the few minutes together sets us both up for the day. Today was no different – and as we speak fans from other Clubs intervene to buy their papers and there is always good natured banter – be it Spurs or Chelsea or W Ham or Man U whatever. The day has begun.

By today Wednesday’s great win had receded and now we were thinking about Villa on Sunday. We are second from the top; they are rooted to the bottom. We had the great win; they are still scratching for points. A certain banker. Put your money on it. We are home and dry. And that is where it can all go wrong. Arrogance, complacency, lack of mental preparation leads to poor performances. We all know that. It is true of our lives – at work – with families – with hobbies. How do we keep up to the mark? – how do we enjoy success and still start the next match at 100%? A big dilemma for Wenger – he looks at the players in the minutes before the game starts wondering whether they are only at 99%. Are they switched on? – they think they are but are they. Are they really at the races? The difference between 99% and 100% is about 10-15% not 1%. Wenger relies on himself to get the players at the whistle in the right frame of mind ready for the first challenge and the one-to-one battles over their marker.

Taking this further a manager is never more worried than when his team have scored. Will they relax? Will they let the celebration continue to long? Are they up for the rest of the battle? Concentration is a funny thing – you don’t realise that you have lost it until it has gone and something negative has happened.

I say all this because we need the win on Sunday – we need the three points and we need a good performance. It won’t be easy. There are no easy games. Didn’t you have Liverpool down to slaughter Newcastle? And it’s not enough to say that they are well paid. That is down to the market and Mr Murdoch and the sponsors. Each player has to have it deep down and Wenger at the start of the match at Villa Park will be wondering/worrying whether his team have put Olympiakos out of their minds. For sure Villa will be up for it. They are in desperate straits. They won’t need motivating. They are fighting for their lives. And isn’t it possible that all the comment from Villa Park about Grealish has left him smarting – maybe the right thing to do and then play him and let him prove his critics wrong. And then there is Remi Garde who will be wanting to put one over his former boss. The atmosphere as the referee blows his whistle to start the game will be great – we will be up for it – will the players?

In today’s Sun on page 81 Steven Howard notes that TalkSport’s Jason Cundy and Andy Goldstein “expressed their surprise at how many callers were saying the same thing. Then again the hardcore Arsenal faction who want Arsene Wenger out have seen all this before”. But where is the silent majority? Why aren’t we more vocal in defence of our man? Part of the reason is that Radio, like TV and the Media at large, like discord and rancour and bitterness. It makes for “good” radio. But it also distorts reality so let’s be more vocal – and if we like our man and want him to succeed let’s say so. Stir it up a bit – but on behalf of the pro side and not just the anti side.

Another point – and this will irritate some – not intentionally. I want to write on “hate”. A very strong word that in four letters expresses our greatest loathing. But it is a word that is reserved for Fascists (Right and Left), Racists and Bullies. We all know them. They are out there loud and clear. But they are not supporters of rival clubs. No reason to hate them. They are only guilty of wanting the best for their team and the choice of “their team” like the choice of “our team” is luck. It is not a considered political decision. It is not a question of right and wrong, or of Tory and Labour or Greens and SNP. Usually someone took us to a match when we were young and a lifelong association was created. My father took me to Arsenal and Middlesex in the early 1950’s and those are my two teams – Arsenal engenders the greater passion but the lifelong commitment is there for both sports – Joe Mercer and Jimmy Logie for Arsenal and Denis Compton and Bill Edrich for Middlesex. I love them both and check Middlesex scores during the day on Cricinfo. Big parts of my life. But let’s keep it in perspective it could have been Tottenham and Surrey. Of course there are bragging rights and digs and passions can rise but at the end of the day it is the luck of the draw.

I welcome feedback on this – not a stream on invective but different views. Why do we love Arsenal? Why should we ever hate anyone else? Trump – Yes – Kane – No.

Back to Arsenal and today’s Daily Telegraph and page 6 of the Sport Supplement – Jeremy Wilson in a two page spread finds Arsene not guilty of being tactically inflexible; not guilty of allowing the squad to be too thin; not guilty of being unable to win the big games. He finds that the jury is still out on whether he should have upgraded on Giroud and finds him guilty of a bad record on injuries. It is balanced, no axes to grind. I recommend it to all online gooners. Very balanced. Looks at all the hard questions. Today’s Daily Telegraph page 6 and 7 of SPORT supplement.

* You can follow my tweets @arsenalcircular


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comments

  1. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Dec 14, 2015, 8:31 #80673

    Easy three points at Villa? Yes, it was.

  2. mbg

    Dec 13, 2015, 16:09 #80659

    Bard, yes indeed one was bad enough, now his router's down again, another has stepped into the breech but not content with that, this one has to make a point and a big thing of responding to everyone individually (in high case) who doesn't agree with him, unlike anyone else who writes an article and just rolls with the punches and moves on, and we accused the other one attention seeking ?

  3. Amos

    Dec 13, 2015, 15:55 #80658

    Looks like old wrinkly sour faced manager, past his sell by date with his out dated ways, philosophies and regime trumps young vibrant manager full of fresh ideas and philosophies after all eh Bard? Wenger is at the tail end of his tenure and when that day comes I'll be as happy to welcome his replacement as much as anyone else. However, while summer 2017 doesn't seem to far away what are the odds of Wenger signing up for another two or three years and retiring at 70 I wonder?

  4. mbg

    Dec 13, 2015, 14:40 #80657

    Amos, lusting after a Remi garde ? absolutely, but just change for changes sake ? i'm tempted to say yes to that too but that's never been the case and you know it, although there's many an argument been given for it, and against it. But a year won't be long going round, the same was said last year when it was two left, and the year before when three, and they've flown, it's coming eventually sooner rather than later that even seems to be recognised by his ardent supporters, so why wait, i'll continue to enjoy the ride alright how can you not with a clown behind the wheel.

  5. Amos

    Dec 13, 2015, 12:22 #80654

    Without answering on Graham's behalf Bard my own suggestion would be that a debate can be seen as a moan when assertion is substituted for analysis. For example 'A final frank admission that 4th place is his ceiling of his expectation and celebration of increased squad value.' Really? Where was that admission made? or ' ... 4th place in the league and the group stage cash in Europe is job done and that you are happy with this.' Really? How is that assertion justified? The more obvious analytical conclusion would be that most supporters would naturally be happier with 4th place than 5th but not as happy as they would be with 3rd, or 2nd or 1st! Many would also be content to see a tripling of squad value as confirmation of a commitment to invest in the squad at a significantly higher rate than ever before - or at least be willing to consider whether it does as opposed to merely asserting it doesn't.

  6. Bard

    Dec 13, 2015, 9:42 #80652

    Graham when is a debate a moan ? I have no idea. The way I read your comments is that you engage in debate and anyone who post alternative views is moaning. What you post are very personal feelings and occasionally opinions, most of them have no evidence backing them up but thats fine. What you need to stop doing is linking your views with what goes on in real life. This technique is used to falsely elevate the 'righteousness' of the argument. I suggest you read our resident 'blatherer' Badarse who posts in a similar way at great length. aAso some of the posters you claim are moaners have been Arsenal fans for a very long time and have seen a hell of a lot of football. They are not the Jonny come latelys that now make up most of the silent supporters. Fans who think Arsenal's history started when Wenger was made manager

  7. Arsenal Circular

    Dec 13, 2015, 7:29 #80651

    BARD (85350) - Your arguments would have merit if we had been knocked out of the Champions League and 6th in the Premier League. But that is not the case and today we can go top if we win and we wait the draw for the next round of the Champions League. I have no problem with criticisms of Wenger. It is not a case of "My Country Right or Wrong". Mistakes are inevitable in football. Why did Liverpool mis-perform against Newcastle last week? Why are Man City floundering? I really hope that when Wenger decides to retire that we can obtain the services of Guardiola. but for the present - we are going well, financially stable, a buying club and with a cheque book to buy players to blend with big money signings. Onwards and upwards.
    AMOS (85351-85375 ) - You are right the vocal minority make more noise than the quiet majority but at least there is the satisfaction of knowing that online gooner does enable our words to get beyond the few who utter negatives all day long. There is the foghorn of destructive and persistent moans as against the desire for open and constructive exchange of views. The moaners think I am a Tory!! They are as wrong on that as they are about Wenger. Your point about Stan's £3m is well made.
    EXETER GUNNER (85377) - You misrepresent Amos and me when you suggest that we think that everything that Wenger does is excellent. Life is not like that. Life cannot be like that. Mistakes are part and parcel of life. I think Herbert C lost more sleep over his team selection for the Walsall Cup defeat in 1932 and he was up their with the Gods. So please do not attempt to justify your anti-Wenger stance by wrongly suggesting Wenger has to be 100% to be. He doesn't and he isn't. Get real. And again I say we could be top at the end of today. Context please.
    JEFF WRIGHT (85381) - 4th place in the League and reaching the group stage is a job well done when you are a selling club losing your best players while making the change to the Emirates. 4th place and the group stage is not a job well done when we have financial muscle and long term security. If we fall short this year it will be a failure. Not necessarily a cause for dismissal - that depends on what happens between now and May - context by another name.
    PETER IN HONG KONG (85384) - All the eloquence of a master lawyer. Someone boyd - sorry buoyed - by seeing the potential in the present set up. The Guardian of the same day made similar points and they have both thought it through. I hope the silent majority become more vocal and instead of Westminster type "YAA-BOO" confrontations we can get some real discussion on the web site.
    Finally Iwobi, Adeleyde-Reine are mentioned in the papers today as being possibles for the Bench. And do not overlook Bielik.

    Graham of Arsenal Circular

  8. Amos

    Dec 12, 2015, 15:20 #80647

    Lusting after a Remi Garde mbg? Just change for changes sake then eh! You've got at least a year and a half of impotent longing to endure. That's sad too! Best try to enjoy the ride as best we can in the meantime.

  9. mbg

    Dec 12, 2015, 14:35 #80645

    Imagine having a young vibrant manager full of fresh ideas and philosophies sitting in our dressing like the one in the photo, instead of an old wrinkly sour faced one, past his sell by date with his out dated ways philosophies and regime. But no some wouldn't hear tell of it, they'd just rather bumble on with the way it is, in the comfort zone, watching the same tired old man going through the motions game after game, week after week, season after season of doing just enough and nothing more. Sad

  10. Amos

    Dec 12, 2015, 11:11 #80640

    Good spot mbg. If a manager's performance was poorer than it has been he would have less support. Who would have though it eh? Next you'll be telling us that if the team were playing in the conference instead of the PL fewer fans would turn up.

  11. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 12, 2015, 11:11 #80639

    Yes, let's not use a decade and more's evidence of our eyes regarding Wenger's tactical flexibility and other obvious weaknesses, let's take the word of Tory rags like the Sun, Times and Telegraph instead. Don't look at how the team actually plays, they don't exist, he's perfect! These pro-Wenger 'Quiet Tories' need to speak up! Desperate stuff.

  12. mbg

    Dec 12, 2015, 1:03 #80633

    jw, good post, and i'm glad that point has been aired again, it's a while since we've heard it, (it'll have to be brought up more often) that if OGL hadn't been or wasn't scraping CL qualification as often as he has been, and we were finishing fifth, sixth, and missing out, more often than not, with all the rest of the embarrassments in between there wouldn't be half as much defending and luvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvving for him.

  13. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2015, 20:39 #80632

    Ho Ho Ho!

  14. Peter currently in Hong Kong

    Dec 11, 2015, 18:36 #80629

    For those who think Arsene is a one trick pony, read Rory Smiths article in today's Times "Bespoke Data gives Arsene the tactical edge" . For those who think he is replaceable read Van Gaals comments in the same paper "winning is in the past" ; this from Manures second manager since the retirement of Ferguson and a Coach with an international reputation . 9 players injured , competing against a team who have an impressive home record! Wasn't Wednesday "Man City away from January" ?

  15. Ron

    Dec 11, 2015, 18:10 #80628

    Amos is OK chaps. Leave him be you pesky, naughty blighters. Its a tough job playing Alfred in the 'The Lost Kingdom' and fending you crazy beggars off in Badarses absence. Have a good week end all and may your accumulators, yr bets, yr covering bets, and bets that cover yr covering bets all be winners like mine. COYG. And finally, sleep well, rest even better and ............. loose and happy hamstrings to you all !

  16. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2015, 18:05 #80627

    @Ron, The best bet of the upcoming games is Chelsea to win at Leicester on Monday evening at 7/5. Looked a better side with Ramires (dirty b**tard) replacing Fabregas.

  17. jeff wright

    Dec 11, 2015, 17:45 #80626

    It only helps Amos in confirming - what I already knew anyway - that 4th place in the league and the group stage cash in Europe is job done and that you are happy with this. You probably play charades at Christmas as well...

  18. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2015, 17:30 #80625

    Amos the Indefensibly Dull. Hope that's of some help .... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz .......

  19. Bard

    Dec 11, 2015, 17:22 #80624

    To defend or not to defend that is the question. Is it indefensible to criticise the great redeemer. Dear old Amos is fighting on all fronts. Pulling things out of context putting things into context. Misunderstanding context, all in the name of defending mediocrity. A final frank admission that 4th place is his ceiling of his expectation and celebration of increased squad value. There's place for you in that organisation Amos.

  20. Ron

    Dec 11, 2015, 16:58 #80623

    Westie - im frantically rummaging around here, there and everywhere trying to find a covering bet for that 7-1 predict of yrs before i back it. Im being offered 3-1 on for the Wally to slope off injured in the 47th minute or Koschielny 4-1 to shut his eyes at a free kick directed at him. What should i do oracle? I'm thinking of just leaving this one and just backing 'Tight hamstring' on the flat at Kempton. Has Drake been rested enough?

  21. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2015, 16:46 #80622

    For a man so wedded to context it's strange that you should misrepresent my words - I said close to a title challenge, not the title itself. It seems to escape your notice, Amos, that in your constant reiteration that Wenger doesn't need defending and that any criticism is merely 'noise' from a vocal minority, you are in fact defending him by downplaying its significance. Indeed it's evident, in your fairly frequent 'infrequent' contributions on here and as one of the main contributors to Vital Arsenal, that you spend a great deal of your time defending Wenger. You have a solid party line - every decision Wenger makes is the best possible decision that could have been made at the time, anything that goes wrong is due to external forces. You will never been seen to deviate from this. Just thought I'd put your comments in their full and proper context - hope that's of some help. .

  22. Ron

    Dec 11, 2015, 16:37 #80621

    Endemic to and behind every tyrants regime lies acolytes proclaiming their lord and masters omnipotence and immunity from criticism, while at the same time doing everything required to defend the leaders position, yet claiming there's nothing that needs defending. Countless historic instances of this exist of which our Arsene is but just one minor sporting eg. The reality is that the Board at AFC have been climbing over each other to defend him for yrs with every public utterance they make. Quite understandable defending on yr standpoint, but to suggest there's never anything to defend isnt just naive, its absolutely wrong. There s always a position to defend and AFC s Board do it supremely well. Surprised at you Amos, but i think you know yr just flanking it.

  23. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 16:28 #80620

    Yeah I guess you're right that Wenger earns his wages jeff. Graham will be pleased that you've pointed that out. As Stan already owns 70% of the £3m a year KSE is paid then that's just pin money to him though. In their proper context though the financial targets are necessary to have been able bring about the tripling in squad value Kroenke has presided over since he took control. Hope that's of some help.

  24. jeff wright

    Dec 11, 2015, 16:14 #80618

    Ho ! ho! ho!, being seasonable here Amos,so you agree then that Arsene keeps his 8m a year job because he drums up Stan's 3m xmas box every year and earns his own crackers by hitting financial targets... all a bit boring really and that's why these illusions of it all being different to the reality of this are required to help keep the wagon rolling on and ( yawn) on...

  25. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 15:51 #80617

    Happy to be of help Bard but you need a proper appreciation of context to understand the significance of the price per game (based on commonly paid season ticket price) at Arsenal is lower than at Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. Similarly, in the spirit of your quest for context, though they do have among the highest single entry tickets they also have, for some games, among the lowest single entry tickets. That said, in the context of linking ambition to financial resources then Arsenal usurp all but those clubs with greater resources, which domestically are Chelsea, City and ManU. Hope that's of some help.

  26. Bard

    Dec 11, 2015, 15:44 #80616

    Thanks you for that correction Amos. It should have read second highest in Europe which makes a huge difference. Incidentally although Arsenal have cheaper tickets their single standard entry is the highest so I am standing by my previous comment. I would point out that you took my comments out of context as my statement was a prelude to the question about an acceptable level of ambition for a club of Arsenal's status. I dont think being the second in the list alters the substance of the question. Of course the answer to the question is that Arsenal dont do ambition they do financial targets.

  27. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2015, 15:41 #80615

    My prediction: No ECL hangover, Villa 1 Arsenal 7, Ted Drake to score all 7 goals. Best price available 600/1.

  28. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 15:38 #80614

    The only reality jeff is that Wenger will remain manager until summer 2017 at the earliest. The reality is that, as they have done for many years, any credible end of season poll (and I'll include the online groaner in that), will probably show a notable majority in favour of him remaining as manager. So those in favour aren't by any means limited to the board. Of course you'd expect the board to lose enthusiasm if Wenger suddenly went all 'arry Redknapp on us but that ain't gonna happen. As I said Wenger doesn't need defending it's the 'Wenger Out' constituency that's struggling for relevance.

  29. jeff wright

    Dec 11, 2015, 15:28 #80613

    Amos,the reality,reality being something that you are obviously not familiar with, is that Arsene only wears his gilded crown so long as he produces the cash from the European Cup group stages .Stan would soon be looking for a replacement if Wenger fails to achieve this.I suspect that more supporters would also join the ever expanding band of the Wenger out ones with the magic spell like aura of the always qualifying for the European Cup broken . He looks safe again though to hit the target of qualification for the group stage cash again this season,but let's not try and pretend that Arsene is still in his position ,despite all of the humiliations of recent seasons and failure to win a league title or the European Cup, that he claimed he was going to win,for any reason other than him making profits for Stan. At Chelsea,United,Barca or Real Madrid... Arsene would have been gone long ago. Once back in the mists of time Arsene could have joined Senor Perez's circus but chose to stay in the comfy zone of AFC instead - he bottled the chance to manage Real Madrid . No big clubs will be in for him now at his age and with him clearly having been exposed as a duffer tactically in Europe. The two big Spanish clubs are guaranteed themselves to always get a group stage European Cup place anyway - along with PSG and the top Seria A ones - so why would they want to sign up a manager who clearly can't conjure up a way to win the thing>?

  30. mbg

    Dec 11, 2015, 15:12 #80612

    Ron, great post, hilarious, you've really took to this betting malarkey haven't you, I suppose you've had a good lecturer.

  31. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 15:03 #80611

    Anger jj? Surely not! I'm merely responding to the partiality for context, stimulated by GP's earlier circular, newly discovered on these forums. But if you just want to make a noise then don't let me interrupt you.

  32. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2015, 14:56 #80610

    I remember when AMOS was a decidedly unruffled type but it seems there is much subaltern anger in these last few posts. Of course Wenger needs no protection from the plebiscite Wobbists when it is understood he will coach for a 1000 years (sounds familiar ...) or more but Sir Perry's grand intervention that Lord Webster could go to any club any time he so felt the urge/twinge is really quite well insane! Can anyone remember any club ever wanting to sign up Col Webster knowing his divaesque demands on the temperature of say ... the brocculi ...... RON never knew racing could be such a giraffe! squid on a squid - loving it!

  33. jjetplane

    Dec 11, 2015, 14:26 #80607

    Two questions Sir Graham 1 Do you wear a bowler and carry an umbrella? 2 Do you work at the MOD or are you just a secret squirrel? Further to analysis of your 'reading matter' you should have inserted the word Plebs to cover the moaning bus drivers and cabbies who have the temerity to crowd your big blue space. I hope the news blokie doffs his cap and waits to be spoken to ..... Wonder if you share a carriage with Amos/ Anyway - top bloody show what!

  34. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 14:25 #80606

    Far from reiterating that there's no debate Exter I'm simply pointing out that such debate as exists is clearly of no consequence and therefore nobody need be overly exercised in defending Wenger as Graham Perry asks. He simply doesn't need defending from those opposing him. The fact remains that the OT game was the game that ultimately decided the title in 2007/2008 irrespective of what happened earlier in the season but I appreciate you supporting my contention that we have indeed come close to a title in the last 10 years. Bard will also appreciate you putting him right on that one I'm sure.

  35. Ron

    Dec 11, 2015, 14:21 #80604

    Im thinking all regular posters should make a pre match prediction of the score each game. The successful poster is then rewarded for a full 2 days by the other losing posters by them bowing to the successful posters wisdom and knowledge and paying due respect to his/her views. This will apply even if the winner is Jameson or Badarse. There are no exceptions. This new game is called 'Respect the poster though its known that he/she speaks inane drivel'. Here goes : Aston Villa 1 Arsenal 1. Multiple winners is a possibility and all winners are given the same approach.

  36. mbg

    Dec 11, 2015, 14:12 #80603

    Yes Graham the street parties after Wednesday have receded now and everybody's gone home at last, and the street cleaners can move in, if only we had something to show for it. So now we move on to the mighty villa where excuses are already in motion in case it goes pear shaped with the usual crashing sound heard after a good result, complacency, fatigue, the travelling. A result may not be a certain banker, (but i'm sure some will have that covered) but it should be, as we've had AKB's telling us all week a good result on Wednesday will set us up nicely and give us great confidence for the rest of the season, maybe even you ? yet here you are warning of complacency and mental preparation (we did win did we not ?) as you've pointed out we're 2nd from top, they,re rooted to the bottom, looks like a banker to me or should be, but I do see where your coming from (although not intentionally) with a past it egoistic manager like we have, complacency, arrogance, mental preparation (lack off), poor performance, after a good result is more of a banker than anything, so much for giving us confidence.

  37. John F

    Dec 11, 2015, 14:12 #80602

    AC,I do like this personalised responses you are doing its like having your own Dear A C problem page.Here is my problem I have a disfunctional what I call my little Wenger.Although it manages to rise to the occasion it struggles to maintain the staying power to reach the top which causes great frustration.In short it flatters to decieve. Placing it in the wrong position maybe a cause it is supposed to go down the middle but too often it keeps going out wide.Lack of preparation and not taking the other half seriously sometimes maybe the issue.what ever it is please help other wise it may be traded in for a younger model,although looking at it I may just get by for a couple years yet as I think the other half is a bit worried about going for something new and exciting.

  38. Ron

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:57 #80601

    Ha Ha. Good lad Westie! Im tired after such a long type anyway.

  39. jeff wright

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:49 #80600

    Mixing up sport with politics is always a big mistake in my view - especially where football is concerned. There is no rationality involved in supporting a football club supporters have various reasons for doing so .Regarding local 'hate the neighbours' type of thing this can only apply to those who have experienced this by having lived in the areas where the local rivals are located. How someone living in Beijing gets all worked about Tottenham supporters if they have chosen to support Arsenal is something that a psychologist would struggle to come up with an explanation for. I can understand why some local Arsenal supporters who have gone to games at WHL dislike or hate Tottenham ones because of the antics,often violent, of some of the spuds supporters who appear to suffer from inferiority complexes .Albeit that Chelsea long ago became the main rival to our ambitions . Perhaps that will now change in the future but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm not convinced that Bermuda Joe and Levy will turn down offers for players such as Kane if the price is right or that players will want to stay at the Ropey Cup club if proper big clubs with ambition to win the top trophies and to pay big bucks wages come calling . Stan and Wenger have all of this sorted of course with genuine ambition having been replaced with ever on going optimism -the future is always bright - and a top 4 finish is the first trophy to be won. There are always plenty of players who other top clubs are not queueing up to buy that can help to achieve this target every season. Once again an alleged title challenge is being made and the win over Olympiacos helps to perpetrate the illusion of Arsene competing for the European Cup -albeit he always does so with a Europa Cup class side that finished 4th or 3rd in the Prem the season before and that shows no signs of being any better that it was the season before.

  40. Exeter Gunner

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:44 #80599

    Amos, You seem awfully keen to keep reiterating there is no debate. Is the hope that if you keep repeating it, it'll come true? As for 07/08, as everyone knows the defining match of that season was Brum away in early spring when Eduardo's leg was broken and Gallas sulked on the pitch. The team collapsed like a house of cards after that. They won their last 4 when the title was gone and the pressure was off which gave the illusion they were closer than they were. To suggest that Man U game was a title decider is disingenuous and isn't reflected in the story of that season. But it is true 07/08 is the closest AFC have come to a title challenge in the last 10 years. Which doesn't really fit with the 'He couldn't compete back then but we've been getting closer since' narrative, does it.

  41. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:41 #80598

    @Ron Behave yourself! Go and have a nice meal in the Corner Flag restaurant & forget the betting angle, you're just not cut out for it. Coaching fatigue free robots is your thing.

  42. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:31 #80597

    Given your declared partiality to context Bard I thought you might like to know that the highest season ticket prices in football are charged by PSG and that Arsenal's most commonly paid adult season ticket price was lower per game than Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea. I don't mind criticism of Wenger at all and I'm happy to read anything of substance, but I doubt that much of it keeps him or anyone else at Arsenal, including the crowds that fill pretty much every game and voluntarily and willingly renew their season tickets every year, awake at night. Hope that context is of some help to you.

  43. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:17 #80596

    The vocal minority opposing an incumbent manager will always make plenty of noise but in Wenger's case it is just noise. It's worth focussing some of the conventional myths surrounding his and/or the club's shortcomings, as the Telegraph article attempts, but you're not going to be talking to the vocal minority, their own noise will prevent them hearing you anyway. There's a fair chance that a good part of the less vocal majority will be receptive to rational argument but the effort you put into it will be governed by the audience you're addressing. If the noise is too loud for you to be heard then you're wasting your time as the 'Wenger out' chants drown any point you attempt to make. From time to time witnessing it can provide some idle entertainment though.

  44. Bard

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:17 #80595

    I am very partial to a bit of context. How about this one; we are the 6/7th richest club in the world and we charge the highest prices in football, what is an acceptable level of ambition ? This argument that the alternative to Webster is a constant merrygoround of managers is utter nonsense. How can you be so sure that someone else wont do better. Amos; I get it that you dont like the criticism of Webster or that you think its pointless; my advice is dont read it. Ron; very funny mate what are the odds on that eh.

  45. Ron

    Dec 11, 2015, 13:03 #80593

    Well, Im going on Sunday but first im just off to put my bet on Arse to lose 7-0. Im getting odds of 8 Million to i right now but ive assessed my options and will be ready to bet responsibly 'in play'. Ill be there, watchin, lisnin and bettin responiblee. Im covering it by an accumulator bet on all 6 races at Thirsk. Ive spoken to my vet and he tells me that all horses that ive bet on are stress free and none are in the red zone ....yet! Im expecting fatigue to hit my mounts though as they travel the gruelling journey up the MI to Thirsk from Newmarket, a journey that all horses tire doing as the hard shoulders of the motorway are tough on the hooves and there's always grit flying off the road from heavy lorries but ill be ready to cover this with suitable bets on the likelihood of giant squids floating down the Thames and throttling the barrier before noon on Sunday. The odds are tantalising but im not scared to punt as you know as i always win. The race at Warwick on Wednesday took its toll on my mounts as expected. It should have been last Saturday but 3 of the jockeys were suffering from tiredness, due to shopping trips on the Friday hence the delayed race day. Campaigning for a mid winter racing break of 3 months seems likely, but these arent my words, theyre from the racing post. Im happy to bet against the Arse as its part of my strategy. 7-0 seems highly likely taking into account, 3 matches in 1926, 1947 and 1951 which were played in weather conditions similar to these we have at the moment. I won handsomely in each of those years as well. I d loved to have gone to Villa Park but couldnt. The odds on me reaching Birmingham without my back twinges coming back were too great to merit a bet so ive played safe. i just cdt for the life of me find a bet to cover my risk. Ill stick with SKY on this one and then ill be fresh for the Xmas betting frenzy. Blimey, im feeling tension in my neck again now. Another scan likely im guessing. Oh, if youre wonderin, that bet on 'Red Zone' i mentioned yesterday, yes you got it lads, it came in. Romped home in fact at 15 - 1. Another win! Great life this professional betting.

  46. Bard

    Dec 11, 2015, 12:48 #80591

    Westie; rest him against Villa and see if he is right for the week after and if he isnt leave him out till he is. What we will do is play him until he drops and then bemoan the fact that we now have another injury crisis.

  47. Arsenal Circular

    Dec 11, 2015, 12:45 #80590

    BARD (85342) - You do not like the word context but we all know that he has done brilliantly keeping us close to the top whilst being a selling Club. We went from being a top two club to a top four club despite relying on market driven signings. disregard context and your views lack credibility. now he is spending on Ozil and Sanchez and the effect is clear. We are now challenging. Money is not everything and a team of £30m players is no guarantee of success. Combine internal development - Bellerin and Coquelin and Jack with signings. Select carefully to keep the dressing room positive. That is what he has done and we are now in with a shout.
    AMOS (85343) - Defend him not from threat of the sack but from his vocal minority of opponents. Like you I don't want a merry-go-round of managers who go from one club to another. Wenger could have gone to almost any other Club at any time but he didn't. He does not operate like that and Arsenal in return would not sack him in mid-contract. I like that. I like character and integrity. 2007-08 - was that they year that Clichy gave away a penalty in extra-time and Adebayor refused to pass to Bendtner?
    WESTLOWER (85344) - I understand where you are coming from and you raise all the possible outcomes but you ask a question that none of can answer. We are fans not medics or managers. You ask good questions but not for us. The coach knows his men - knows their body language - knows if they are pushing themselves at the risk of long term fitness. He sees the statistics. He knows the upcoming fixtures. It is for him to feed it all in and make the decision. Sometimes those decisions are right and sometimes wrong. Peter Storey was never fit for the 1971 Cup Final and was replaced by Kelly who George A apart scored the equalising goal.

    Graham of Arsenal Circular

  48. Westlower

    Dec 11, 2015, 12:06 #80589

    How would you approach Sundays game re Ozil's reportedly niggly calf injury, do you, a) rest him until the Citeh game the following week. b) play him at Villa Park. c) wrap him in cotton wool & rest him whenever he feels a twinge. d) Allow the player to tell when you he's fit to play. e) Let the medical team make the definitive decision whether he can or cannot play. What are the possible outcomes? 1) He plays at Villa, pulls up lame with the game in the balance & consequently misses the Citeh game & possibly the Xmas games. 2) He's rested for the Villa game and Arsenal lose due to lack of creativity, his like for like replacement Cazorla is already crocked. 3) He plays at Villa & he sets up Arsenals winner. A winning team on a high then head to the Etihad confident of getting a good result. Conclusion: Win the next game is the best philosophy. It's no good resting Ozil then dropping 3 points at Villa, resulting in him being pitched back in for a desperate must win game at the Etihad. If he feels able to play then play him. Should he feel unable to play, rest him, simples! Oh, haven't we just been there with Sanchez? IMO there's no correct answer, apart from field your strongest team at all times, with the exception of the LC games. It worked for Maureen last season.

  49. Amos

    Dec 11, 2015, 12:04 #80588

    "Why aren’t we more vocal in defence of our man?" The more pertinent question should be why would anyone feel the need to defend Wenger? There's no threat of him going before summer 2017 and every chance he'll go on beyond then. Of all the issues debated around Arsenal 'Wenger out' is probably the most redundant. The managerial debate is pretty much constant and as and when Wenger is replaced even if by an Ancelotti, Klopp, Mourinho or whoever is the back page poster boy at the time there will be those insisting that Ancelotti, Klopp, Mourinho or whoever is replaced just as there are Chelsea supporters who want Mourinho out one season after the title. You can be pretty sure that come the summer most credible polls, including the online groaner's annual survey, will show a majority in favour of Wenger remaining - as it has done consistently for many years. Folk whining impotently on football forums doesn't matter to anyone who matters. Don't bother defending Wenger. He really doesn't need it. The claim that we haven't got close to winning a title in 10 years is worth contesting and I would cite 2007-2008 when we lost narrowly at OT 4 games before the end of the season in a game in which dominated. The fact the title was effectively decided by the outcome of that one single game must at least constitute as going close.

  50. Bard

    Dec 11, 2015, 11:46 #80587

    Nothing sad about it. Its a fact not an opinion. We havent won a title or even been near one. If thats ok for you then fine but it isnt for me. If you are ok with a club whose main objective is the accumulation of wealth then fine it aint for me. Im afraid we come from different perspectives. Clubs do have off games but not to the degree that we do. Very few of the so called top sides are as mentally weak as we are.

  51. Arsenal Circular

    Dec 11, 2015, 11:29 #80586

    ARSENEKNEWBEST (85338) - You are missing the point aren't you. All I am saying is that I cannot hate rival fans. That's it pure and simple. I do not hate. Hate Trump Yes. Hate ISIS Yes. There is a reason to hate them. They are dangerous and they are intolerant and they threaten people. The rival fans are us in different colours. I like to beat them. I want to beat them because my club means so much to me. but hate them - no way. I make a point of reading four papers at least a day - the Sun and the Telegraph and at home we take the Mail and the Guardian. sometimes I read the New York Times which gives the best in depth world coverage. I like a range of opinions. I have my own but they aren't for a soccer blog - are they? I am a reasonable bloke albeit with my own views but hate and insult have no place. They kill discussion and debate. Sorry - that is how I see it.
    BARD (85339) - All teams have anaemic performances. It happens. Other teams sometimes take the initiative, make the tackles and the ball runs for them. Even Klopp in his own way was peeved with Liverpool. It takes a lot to play at 100% all the time. This si not an apology for Wenger. It happened when George was in charge and when Berties was in charge. Less then because they worried about missing win bonuses. now the present bunch or paid so much that even out of the team the money is not the issue. Bertie use to fine players but denying them their quota of tickets. That hurt. Today it means nothing. If we fall short you will hear me speak up. I do not hide but if they win where will you be - still moaning that he should have done it ten years ago? Sad.

    Graham of Arsenal Circular

  52. Bard

    Dec 11, 2015, 10:52 #80584

    Graham the answer your question is that Webster hasnt a clue whether they will be up for it or not. If he had been able to get to grips with that problem we wouldnt have had as many anaemic performances over the years. The reason we needed Wednesdays epic escape is because they clearly hadnt been up for it in the earlier games. I dont know what the point of quoting Jeremy Wilson's article is. Its just another opinion nothing more. It fills space. Westie posts these sorts of comments all the time. Sam Bloggs in the Barnsley Herald believes Webster is the greatest/ worst manager in the world. As many on here say its a results game. Look at games won or lost. Trophies won. We havent won or even got close to winning a title in over 10 years, now that is a story.

  53. Arseneknewbest

    Dec 11, 2015, 10:37 #80583

    Graham - 'kin 'ell mate - where to begin with that little lot. You're certainly not afraid to put some bizarre opinions out there are ya? "Fascists (right and left)" - you do know the definition of fascism don't you? If you don't know or if you've blithely parroted something that you've read in the Sun (really!) or the Pretoriagraph (angry of Stanmore - please identify yourself!) then I suggest you consult a dictionary before you try to get a bit edgy in future. Stalin, Castro and Mao all committed atrocities in the name of communism matey, but they were state capitalists really - think about it. To put it into a context which you might understand (because context is everything as you told us the other day, right?), a left wing fascist is equivalent to a Spuds' title win in the last 50 years. I.e. non-existant. I'm reading between the lines here but it seems as if your football opinions are at least partially influenced by the Sun, Telegraph and Talksport. It speaks volumes for your lack of genuine insight and originality that you're relying on these rags for inspiration. The titz are more entertaining in the Sun that what some lazy journalist thinks of Murdoch's permier league. Remember the Sun - the paper that tapped Millie Dowler's phone and blamed Hillsborough on the fans (that'll be the second time you'll have upset our bin-dipping cousins this week). Moreover, both of these dog-sh*t publications are Murdoch and Barclay Brothers owned propaganda sheets for the Tory party. I come on here to avoid that cack - not to be reminded of it. As Billy Bragg rightly said, "When you wake up to the fact that your paper is Tory, just remember there are two sides to every story". A really poor piece Graham - go back to the cliches and truisms mate.