Should We Be Worried About Arsenal FC?

Football, and Football Business Beyond Urban Myths



Should We Be Worried About Arsenal FC?


1. Sporting and Financial Success
When asked once, Arsene Wenger responded that qualifying for the Champions League is a sports honour that should, at least in his hierarchy, take precedence over winning the FA Cup or the League Cup. In part, he was right. Qualifying for the Champions League is definitely a success, if the latter is defined in financial terms. A club like AFC, that almost never reaches the final stages of the Champions League, can enjoy some very tangible direct benefits, and can also profit from some less tangible indirect perks. The money received from UEFA, the better contracts signed with sponsors, the TV rights, merchandise sold, as well as gate-money qualify as direct benefits. Playing in this illustrious competition also makes the club a pole of attraction for football players, and especially their agents eager to do business when they smell money.

This is not to suggest that there is necessarily a disjoint between financial and sporting success. On the contrary. qualifying for the Champions League is the prerequisite to winning it, the ultimate sporting success. Nevertheless, my example of AFC above is meant to suggest that financial success can also exist irrespective of sporting success. Note that, thanks to UEFA policies, playing in a championship like England with (some) teams that (usually) go past the group stage increases the chances of accessing the Champions League (4 clubs participate each year), and thus, also increases the likelihood of financial success. Profit seeking investors can legitimately be attracted to clubs that routinely qualify to this competition.

Financial success is alas, not synonymous to sporting success. For sporting success means one thing: lift the cup, be it the Premiership title, the Champions League, the FA Cup, or the League Cup.

AFC has enjoyed in the twenty years of Wenger a huge financial success, and moderate sporting success as well. Let me start with the latter.

Under Wenger, AFC has won the Premiership 3 times, and the FA Cup 6 times. All in all since its establishment the club has won the Premiership (or its equivalent) 13 times, roughly one time every ten years. Wining it 3 times in 20 years under Wenger is above the prior mean, but not the best ratio the club has enjoyed. Chapman won it twice in the ‘30s in just nine years at the helm, whereas George Graham, our unforgettable “Stroller”, won it twice in just eight years. So Wenger is the third winningest coach if we factor in time at the helm.

And then of course, resources matter. In the Graham years, AFC could not outbid Blackburn and lure Chris Sutton from Carrow Road to Highbury. In the Wenger years, AFC has been transformed to a club with almost unlimited resources, and certainly the most expensive tickets in the Premiership enjoying a very healthy margin (over 25%) over the second placed Manchester United when it comes to price of individual tickets. The point is some AFC managers with less resources enjoyed more sporting success. This is at least what statistics, and not impressionistic accounts tell us. So what has gone wrong?

Leicester’s success was welcome to football fans, but one should not lose sight of the fact that in the twenty five years or so of Premiership, all but one time it is clubs with financial muscle (the wealthiest or one of the top four wealthiest) that has won it. AFC definitely has financial muscle. So why not use it? AFC fans, we have been told two stories: we are a self-sustained club that does not rely on sugar daddies, that makes its own money, and spends it accordingly. The implication is that others cheat, a point that I will explain later. The second story, intimately linked to the first, is that we lost a few years because we had to pay for the Emirates stadium. And of course, every now and then we keep hearing about values etc. I will take each point in turn.

2. AFC has no Sugar Daddy
We can spend what we make, and nothing more tells us Arsene Wenger, Ivan Gazidis, and the AFC nomenclature. This is true. Actually, this is true for all clubs participating in UEFA competitions. This is the very essence of Financial Fair Play (FFP), the leading UEFA statute. When several clubs were at the brink of collapse (and some beyond that), UEFA enacted statute, which defined income and requested from clubs under its aegis not to overspend it. Overspending leads to financial and sporting sanctions, and any visitor of the UEFA webpage can have in front of him/her the full list.

Clubs thus, engaging in transfers pay the market price keeping in mind that they cannot overspend their income. This is true for AFC, as is true for everybody.

2.1 Market Prices
Market prices are the meeting point of supply and demand. If AFC offers £8 million for Cristiano Ronaldo, and Manchester United offers £12 million for the same player, Ronaldo will go to the latter. Same true for Smalling, and so many other players we have spotted in time, but ended up elsewhere. Market prices might look exorbitant, but one needs a benchmark to decide on that. If AFC can get a talent similar to Ronaldo for less than £12 million, all the better. Usually, however, the price is a reliable mechanism of transmission of information about the football value of the player as well. In today’s world, where we are inundated with information, it is difficult to outsmart the market.

In theory nonetheless, a club has an alternative. Either it pays the market price, and gets the talent it wishes, or it looks for other options (e.g., because of asymmetric information, it might have scouts in clubs where others do not have and profit from lack of competition; or it has great trainers and produces home grown talent). One does not exclude the other. FC Barcelona for example, has spent millions in developing La Masia (the centre for its youth), but this has not stopped it from spending £75 million to buy Luis Suarez from Liverpool FC.

In short, paying the market price is function of financial muscle. Those who can afford it, go for it. Those who cannot, stay out. In Europe, unlike the US regulation of sport, we have no mechanisms of addressing equality of competitive conditions. In fact, one of the criticisms voiced against FFP is that rich clubs become richer and the gap between them and poor clubs grow. AFC definitely belongs to the rich clubs’ club. According to Deloitte, with a revenue of over 435 million euros, AFC was the 7th wealthiest club in Europe last year, and third only to Manchester United (519 million), and Manchester City (463 million) in England. And yet clubs with less financial prowess, like Chelsea for example, can pip us to the signature of Eden Hazard, a player we would all have loved to see at the Emirates, Gary Cahill, and so many more in the past. Why do we refuse to pay the market price?

I will go through the responses that Wenger and the AFC management has provided us over the years: the money is crazy; at AFC we make our stars; we had to pay for the stadium. I will attempt to reject all of them, before I offer my explanation: the current management enjoys the current return on investment (ROI).

2.2 Market Prices are Crazy
I have half responded to this point. Market prices are just that: market prices. One might have a moral issue with a football player making £250,000 per week, when top scientists at the NASA labs make a fraction of that, or when doctors without borders risk their lives for nothing in the most unwelcoming places on earth. And yes, there are examples (US) where salaries have been capped in order to promote equality of competitive conditions. But this is not the world where AFC is called to compete. And this is not a fight we can fight alone.

So, AFC has to put up and pay top dollar, or look elsewhere for inspiration. In fact, we did look elsewhere as I explain in what follows and failed miserably.

2.3 AFC Home Grown Talent
Who are our emerging youngsters? The last one who graduated from our youth system is Alex Iwobi. The jury is still out on him, but look at the rest of the team. Gibbs and Wilshere are AFC products, but none of the two is a regular first eleven player. Theo and the Ox joined us when they were very young, and again neither is a regular first teamer. So we are left with Bellerin, who did half his apprenticeship in FC Barcelona to be proud of our youth system. Is all this investment in youth worth it after all?

Take a look at the leaders of our youth teams from Jerome to Jay Emmanuel Thomas, from Chucks Aneke to Benik Afobe, and see where they are now. The numbers tell a story, and the story is our youth system is not productive. Why then continue to invest massively in it? Either we sit down, analyze what we have been doing wrong, and try to address it, or we scrap it altogether. We have so far done none of the two.

I have often wondered myself what would have happened if Stu Taylor for example, was given an extended run (like Denilson was, undeservedly so in my view). Counterfactual history though, is close to nonsense. The fact of the matter is that so far we have not been able to rely to our youth system to supply first eleven players. I recall the justified bitterness of Charlie Nicholas in one Sky Sports show when he almost shouted “how come AFC does not have a youth central defender to field?” And yet, as much as I understand his frustration, the fact of the matter is we produced no more Keowns.

A side remark here seems appropriate. Our scouting system is not better. Yes, we had some original success in the Wenger years with Vieira, Petit, Henry, Anelka. And we should be grateful for these moments. But after missing out on Zlatan and Ronaldo, we also missed out on Bale who would have come jumping to the Emirates, and to various French players that ended up at Newcastle United and elsewhere.

The alternatives to paying the market price have not worked. This is the long and the short of it.


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46
comments

  1. mbg

    Aug 18, 2016, 15:58 #91921

    Paul Ward, your spot on, I penned an article on here some time back on who we'd miss if he left the club, who we'd be sorry to see go (shed a tear over if you like)even worried over/about transfer rumours linking them elsewhere, like we would have (and did) years ago, the list was long going back to the 90's and before, now ? 5 years ago ? 10 years ago ? we'd wouldn't have shed a tear over any of them and in fact were glad to see the back of a lot of them, and the same applies now, we wouldn't shed a fooking tear over any of the rabble whether they wear the shirt or not and we'd still be glad to see the back of a lot of them they mean nothing (the way others did and still do) and no one more so that the old past it manager we have. Go now wenger you mean nothing.

  2. David

    Aug 18, 2016, 15:31 #91920

    Ron - Totally agree, seems like we were writing much the same thing at the same time!

  3. David

    Aug 18, 2016, 15:14 #91919

    I don't think there has to be a British spine as such. To me Cesc Fabregas was as much an Arsenal man as Tony Adams. However I do think that sustained success comes from within the club. Barcelona are an example of this. Their best players were/are the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. The Manchester United side of 1996-2010 was built around Neville, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham (though he left in 2003). The key thing is that these players made the most of their potential and had a strong feeling for the club. Sadly for Arsenal many of our young prospects never reach their potential. Szczęsny, Gibbs, Walcott, Wilshere etc. now in their mid-20s should be the core of a great team, not bit part players. Post invincibles, only Fabregas has really become top class and only Bellerin looks like following him.

  4. Ron

    Aug 18, 2016, 14:44 #91916

    Thanks Bard - post 97348. I meant it as you say mate, not strictly in a nationality sense. I do think though that any PL is better in terms of its cohesion and attraction is best served by a strand of genuine home born players in the ranks. Ive not much time for this notion of home grown that the rules use. Its a sop isnt it. Terry Lamps Neville Beckham Scholes and Co were the bulwarks of their Clubs successes. It happened with Leics last yr too. Yr Drinkwaters and Morgans won the title there. Liverpool sdecline has occured with losing the rich blend of Eng Irish and Scots lads they always had. Yr right too. Sanchez and Ozil have no affinity with Arsenal or the UK and why should they. Just mercenaries. The odd players becomes quasi Brit of course but very few in my view. Ideally Arsenal need 2 or 3 good London lads. Ones with fibre and soul not the flimsy, flakey fakes we ve got like the odious Wilshere. This is what gives the pitch a connect with the fans. The Clubs cdt care a f--k about it now though.

  5. rarlour

    Aug 18, 2016, 13:16 #91903

    So that was a very, very long winded way of saying 'spend some f&cking money!'

  6. Seven Kings Gooner

    Aug 18, 2016, 12:31 #91897

    I am about Arsene's age and I don't blame him for becoming a corporate man, why give yourself all that stress & strain trying to win a title when all you need do is count the cash coming in and subtract the outgoings. If the figures match Stan's ROI plans you have a job each year - the secret to Kronke's financial winning formula is the stupid Arsenal fans, nothing else. Yep Arsene's got it spot on, a few dummy moves for a couple of half decent players that will never happen in a month of Sundays, then just hang on till 1st September and pick up a couple old has beens before end of play on august 31st - job sorted! Then those who still go to the games will demand everyone gets behind the team and we are away again - no I am with Arsene, easy life every time, I did my bit when I was younger and so did he!

  7. KC

    Aug 18, 2016, 10:07 #91896

    Bard, I think those days are by and large a thing of the past. The reality is that our competitors face the same issues, but do tend to have a stronger core than us. I think back to that anfield mauling, followed by the Stamford bridge mauling that was not about passports it was about a manager without the ability to plan and organise! than saying to the team go out and play our football at tough away grounds is a recipe for a beating. He cannot understand the need to frustrate the opposition, see off the 30 minute onslaught and slowly let your football talk. It's Wengers fantasy that pulls us down not the nationality of the players.

  8. jeff wright

    Aug 18, 2016, 10:07 #91895

    I doubt that any serious effort was ever made to sign Mahrez . Deju the alleged Vardy attempted signing by Wengo .It was all just more spin to help keep the nodding dog loony AKB's happy and to try and divert attention away from the lack of action on signings for normal supporters. No doubt both Vardy and Mahrez , along with the rest of the victorious title winning Foxes, will have recalled the absurd gloating celebs and euphoric celebs and silly selfies that Wenger and our players indulged in after beating Leicester at the Emirates - as though they had WON the title instead of just one game - rather fortuitously. Why would any player with real ambition want to join a serial loser like Wenger and his selfie taking 'lets celebrate' finishing 4th clowns. You couldn't make it up.

  9. Mark from Aylesbury

    Aug 18, 2016, 10:06 #91894

    Obviously my disdain for Wengo is pretty obvious. I just hope for his sake he pulls something out of the bag against Leicester, otherwise Ranieri will have annihilated him. Title by 10 points and convincing two of his star players to continue playing for a team widely tipped to fall away with limited resources against joining Arsenal with its illustrious history, fantastic facilities and resources way beyond Leicester. Why was this , how could it happen? Surely it can't be that Ranieri is a better manager and better man than our whining greedy loser?

  10. Mark from Aylesbury

    Aug 18, 2016, 9:54 #91893

    Professional football like most sports is a mutual back rubbing society with only the odd spat or feud to enliven matters. It is pretty obvious though that most players think Wengo is past it. Would you have joined a Clough run Forest in his final 3/4 seasons. Same story for Wengo. Notice though that the Wenger freaks such as Leekey are no longer coming out with player x only joined us because of Wenger. The day is looming , oh yes.

  11. goonersol

    Aug 18, 2016, 9:15 #91892

    jjet : Lets face it , Arsenal is no longer an attractive club to join. The manager is clueless, the fan base is split, ambition is only half -baked, and the regime only care for Income and cash in their pockets, is it no wonder top players are turning us down...its looking like a long and bitter road we are currently on, what it will take to turn it round ??

  12. jjetplane

    Aug 18, 2016, 8:38 #91891

    Looks like Mahrez has joined Vardy in thinking Wenger is not up to it and Ranieri is.

  13. Old Man

    Aug 18, 2016, 8:02 #91890

    Worried!? Why? One Jonny Evans there's only One Jonny Evans.....ha, ha.

  14. Mathew

    Aug 18, 2016, 6:01 #91889

    Thank you for the article, well said but save something for the weekend as our weaknesses remain as ever. For all those crying for Simeone to join, i dont think that he or anyone could solve this unless the urge to win comes from the club hierarchy. For once I do appreciate Roman at Chelsea, atleast he attends few home matches and puts his manager under pressure. One might object with the unrest and firings of managers but atleast he cares for the success of the club. Arsenal have too much money and our owners are milking the cow as much as they can and no other short term or long term targets. Fans unrest and voicing their opinions at the stadium wont make any difference to them at all.

  15. Joe S.

    Aug 18, 2016, 4:46 #91888

    What a good piece. I doubt if the AKBs can come up with any counter argument which won't sound like brats taking their ball home with when losing in the playground. A sad reminder of what the true fans have had to endure and why it doesn't make sense to continue with the current management. Curses to the Hill Woods for selling out to that American, but even more to the man in charge of the players for giving us the likes of Deckchair, Bedner, Djour and all the other mediocrity.What a shambles and why did it have to come to this. Enjoy the season fellas, I am going to relish every embarrassing moment remaining under this greedy regime.

  16. Squatter miser Wenger

    Aug 18, 2016, 1:32 #91887

    Wenger only takes pride in finishing in the top 4 on a budget and proving the critics wrong who think we'll finish outside it. He thinks the sun shines out his skinny arse because he has got us the virtual trophy for the last umpteenn years in a row. He pulls this out of his excuses bag every time the pressure really comes on and the media criticises him hard. And he thinks he's the bees knees because we finished second last year while Chelsea were ****, Man U didn't even make UCL places, and Citeh and spuds finished below us. He honestly thinks it was a fantastic season last and he exceeded expectations and the club is punching above it's weight. And don't worry, the bargain hunting shopping cart is about to be wheeled out for the usual trolley dash on 31 August.

  17. Paul Ward

    Aug 17, 2016, 23:44 #91886

    Ozil, Koscielny & Giroud back in training then, shame they didn't show a bit of commitment and come back a week earlier to help the club out in its hour of need. Those types of qualities sadly lacking at Wengers Arsenal, wouldn't shed a tear if any of the current squad departed. No spirit , no passion, no soul, that's the modern Arsenal . Wenger out now

  18. mbg

    Aug 17, 2016, 22:17 #91885

    We've heard fans say AKB's I can't wait for wengers book to hear and be told (him to spill the beans if you like)the real story of his reign, especially the last eleven years, and we'll hear the truth, of how he got no support from the yank/yanks how he's been following orders all these years, how they have hung their messiah out to dry, with no money and allowed him to take all the blame and flack, etc, etc, I've no doubt and i'm willing to bet (providing he tells the truth) all you wengerites are going to be surprised and disappointed (or maybe not ?) and not going to like the truth, because your beloved messiah runs the fooking show/club from top to bottom, anything he wanted he got, if he'd have wanted more a lot more (money or anything else) he's have got it, and fooking more along with it, he has made the rules and makes damm sure their adhered to, what he says goes, men are fired and hired on his say so,nothing happens without his say so, everything that has happened and been done at this club over the last eleven years is down to him nobody else. Power like that for any one man (especially an old past it fraud of a manager)is one hell of a dangerous thing, wars are started by men like him, and good honest respected loved football clubs are destroyed by a manager like him. Please God someone have the balls to bring it to an end and put us all out of our misery. Go now you old past it dictator your not welcome here anymore.

  19. Bard

    Aug 17, 2016, 19:24 #91884

    KC I get your drift mate but I think Ron and David mean it in the sense of belonging to the club rather like Adams and Parlour. They all get so much money whats the motivation ? If you have grown up together its more like a band of brothers. I enjoy watching Sanchez and Ozil but do they really care about Arsenal? They are stalling on new contracts which says it all. Im old school the Pat Rice's and Georgie Armstrong Arsenal through and through.

  20. KC

    Aug 17, 2016, 18:04 #91883

    Not sure a British spine is rather simplistic, it certainly doesn't help England. It's Wengers mentality, lack of interest in defending, stopping other teams, dead ball situations, that undermine this club. We don't engage in penalty appeals, getting at the ref when teams time waste and so on. The style is Harlem globetrotter and fantasy football. In any top competition you require a mix of quality offensive football with a number of players that can score goals (Pires / Lungberg) as examples, mixed with a defensive competence and defensive leadership. Not concerned where these players come from

  21. Ron

    Aug 17, 2016, 17:05 #91882

    David - im glad youve raised the point you have. Arsenals loss of a British spine ie fundamental 'character' players in the last dozen yrs has contributed as much to Arsenals decline as has Wengers barmy 'philosophies' and frugality in the transfer market. The Club has had no identity or link beteween the pitch and the fans for yrs. United under AF never lost sight of the need for it and nor did that gobsh--e when at Chelsea.

  22. Edmund

    Aug 17, 2016, 16:43 #91880

    Sponsors like Emirates and Puma are a bigger deal than just ticket prices. Just look ar Man Utd. To kick out Kroenke and hurt his ROI, we need to work in the sponsors. Sepp Blatter was as untouchable as Wenger until the sponsors turned in him. Van Gaal's days were numbered when the sponsors told Ed Woodward they didn't like the brand of football on display. If Emirates and Puma join the WOB, we will see changes for sure.

  23. cyril

    Aug 17, 2016, 16:29 #91879

    mbg: Put it like this, from what I have gathered and unless it has changed, any lad who makes it through the youth system to play for the Arsenal 1st team regularly, will have my total respect and undivided attention that is for sure!!

  24. mbg

    Aug 17, 2016, 15:57 #91878

    Cyril, good post, we can all read between the lines alright, so TOF wasn't responsible for the (much raved about at the time)youth policy either (although he certainly took the glory for it remember when he took all the adulation in interviews with a grin on his face after beating prem teams in the coca cola cup ? what a fraud) it was all down to brady and his team as was much suspected at the time, and when Brady started getting rave reviews for his work TOF didn't like it, hence the fallout ? him leaving/retiring, and leaving the old fraud and his ego to it and his own devices, and the rest is history, there for all to see, completely out of his depth and found out, he hadn't a clue, youth policy went down hill from there, none since, non existent, ruined, just like everything else he touches/touched, by an egoistic old fraud. Go now you old fraud. tick tock.

  25. David

    Aug 17, 2016, 15:50 #91877

    1. will we win PL - No 2. will we finish out of top four - No 3. is this Wenger last season - No 4 will we qualify from CL group - yes 5. will we make CL QF - no 6. will we finish above spurs - yes ; Same answers as last year I'm afraid

  26. David

    Aug 17, 2016, 15:47 #91876

    Arsenal's home grown talent (including those signed very young) is the most likely route to success on the field. The 1971,1989 and 1998 teams had a number of players coming through from the youth setup. Only in the 1930s did Arsenal buy their way to success. Sadly Walcott, Wilshere (yet) et al have not become top class players. Only Fabregas could be considered to have done so of the players that have risen through the club in the Wenger era.

  27. David

    Aug 17, 2016, 15:35 #91875

    "... offer 5,000 seats at the Clock End at five pounds each to the Islington faithful." What about the Hackney faithful? Most of us lived far closer to Highbury in Dalston and Stoke Newington than large swathes of Islington. Truth is it has generally been the case that most Arsenal fans travel from further afield as in Fever Pitch when Nick Hornby discovers his Highbury neighbours don't actually go to games.

  28. David

    Aug 17, 2016, 15:25 #91874

    "Chapman won it twice in the ‘30s in just nine years at the helm" - Arguably he should take credit for all 7 from 1931-1953 and with WWII in the midst of that. That was a real legacy.

  29. mbg

    Aug 17, 2016, 14:41 #91872

    Of course we should, in fact we should have been worrying about it seven eight years ago when some were voicing their concerns about this old fraud of a manager and his failed philosophies not just now, when others have just and finally woken up to him, it's not to late yet even though he's done his best to bring us down, and it's going to take years to put it right and get his grubby fingerprints of everything, but leave it any longer and it will be, this old past it waster will have ruined us destroyed us for good. wenger out out out.

  30. goonersol

    Aug 17, 2016, 14:00 #91871

    Website Editor , can we have a new Gooner referendum...the current one ref CL is obsolete & pointless.. Maybe, 1. will we win PL - 2. will we finish out of top four - 3. is this Wenger last season.

  31. King Jeremy

    Aug 17, 2016, 13:54 #91870

    Forget about Arsenal FC. We are witnessing the final stages of the one-was football club morphing into Arsenal PLC. Nothing but NOTHING will change the current direction apart from falling revenues resulting from a gradually emptying stadium. #Kronkeout is trending rather well at the moment. While I dearly want the manager gone, I honestly believe that it is a matter of time before he is given a new contract and only real change will come with a change of owner.

  32. jjetplane

    Aug 17, 2016, 13:26 #91869

    Tony's gone AWOL (under pressure) so Walter is manning the Untold barricades on his 'one match a year' lonesome. Lord knows what Vardy and Mahrez will do to a 'not ready' defence.

  33. Reg

    Aug 17, 2016, 12:35 #91868

    I'm holidaying in Cyprus where they have a lovely array of fake football shirts. My in-laws have a place over here so I've been here for a few weeks every year for the last 10 years. In 2006 there were Henry, Pires shirts etc, a few years later Van Perse, Fabregas etc. The last 2 years not an Arsenal shirt for sale just Real, Barca, Man U, Chelsea etc. Watched Saturdays debacle in a bar, not another Gooner to be seen. Arsenal's light in Europe has never been dimmer over the last decade and it's all to do with one man. Boring, boring Arsenal has never been more apt.

  34. goonersol

    Aug 17, 2016, 12:31 #91867

    Mark From A : Cock'o leeky has gone to find out who Herbert Chapman is ...cos he thought Arsenal was only founded in 1996...

  35. Mark from Aylesbury

    Aug 17, 2016, 12:22 #91866

    Leekey - I know you think we are Untold obsessed so I thought I'd help you along with that thought of yours. Just reading the comments after Walters latest whinge. The atmosphere is fear, palpable fear, you know the noose is tightening. As MBG puts it tick tock tick tock. I compare that against this site where the banter continues and the hopeful thoughts that we may be finally rid of him. Promise us, will you leave to?

  36. cyril

    Aug 17, 2016, 12:13 #91865

    Leman gooner - really good. I was chatting to a guy (won't mention name) at the weekend who was employed by Liam Brady to supply youth players. He told me that 3 players are selected at the end of each process/year and all the others make their own way. But here is the thing, he advised that he has provided Liam with many several players and they in most part don't get the opportunity to rise to the 1st team. [I am in no way implying that Liam is at fault here, in fact he came across really positive and active.] There have been a couple and have been moved on so I am sure you can work it out. But the almost disturbing thing is that it seems these players can make it but at the last moment, a player will be brought in (not talking marquee here) and then that player is lost. I felt there was an indication that there has never been a real appetite to bring these players through. It was or is a youth system it seems in name only. I would love to mention names but it would not be fair. I was also quite concerned by the connotations of why this may be happening, but I won't go there. There are 'root and branch' issues here for sure.

  37. goonersol

    Aug 17, 2016, 12:13 #91864

    Ron : you are 100% correct, the problem is being sold a dream/promise they could not fulfil is what angers most, they could have easily stayed at Highbury for all the ambition they have since shown, instead , they had a plan, sell a promise of success to the masses and charge them vast amounts to dream of what might be, this worked for a few years, but as the masses saw that they were being strung along and the regime could not deliver, they have become restless.. we are paying Michelin star prices for burger joint fare, so some have chosen not to pay anymore, some have chosen to complain, all part of consumerism, which ultimately we are, no longer fans..... Change is a coming.

  38. Ron

    Aug 17, 2016, 11:41 #91863

    Financial success is all that the modern Arsenal want. Its the be all and end all to them. Its no longer a football Club in the purest sense of the word. ALL of Arsenal s fans have to make a choice. Do you want it as it is or not? If not, leave it alone. Its easy to do. Nothings going to change there, Kroenke or no Kroenke, Wenger or not. Worry? Not at all. AFC couldn't care a fig for me and while i still have the remnants of affection for Arsenal, its only for what Arsenal was and not what it is now. The Club died in 2002 the day that the ref blew the whistle in the Wigan match. Ran as it is, though its a successful business, the Club nor any of its staff deserve any sporting success there.As for the fans who still go, i m sorry but they're all mugs in my view and being taken for the ride of a lifetime, but hey, if you enjoy it, fill yr boots. There are far better things in life to spend yr money on than what AFC offer. I just wished id have learned this lesson many years ago.

  39. $tan

    Aug 17, 2016, 11:18 #91861

    Financially of course not. Sporting wise ? absolutely we should worry. The DNA & hear of Arsenal has been systematically erased. It is still called 'Arsenal' but it is no longer 'The Arsenal' Owners/Board/Management are not fans and have no deep love for the Club. Usmanov + Dein return would restore the passion

  40. jeff wright

    Aug 17, 2016, 11:03 #91860

    I agree with the ratio of winning league titles by Wenger over his ( yawn) 20 year rule at AFC compared with Chapman and GG's . 3 titles in 20 years is certainly not the great achievement that is claimed to be. 20 years without ANY Euro trophies though is really embarrassing for old clueless.

  41. KC

    Aug 17, 2016, 10:48 #91859

    Great read. Top four is the secret to everything. Once we miss this target the board will realise the secret to income is quality on the pitch. Wenger is loved by this board because he delivers top 4. Top 4 is this boards idea of a league and champions league double. The real fans want football success the American owner wants business success. The saddest part is that a once football man has been bought out by the business man.

  42. Delford Magaya

    Aug 17, 2016, 10:47 #91858

    If Usmanov want to sell his share, he should sell them to David Dean, he is the man who used to drive Arsenal, and Wenger to do the right things, since he left Arsenal, Wenger has shown that, he has no idea of how he can run the club, the way David Dean used to do, even to negotiate for players, David Dean was supper, now with Wenger, Koroenke and his useless batch of management, Arsenal is a disaster, with Koroenke who do not have any knowledge of football, his knowledge of football is ZERO, supporters are being starved to watch attractive football, by both Wenger, his management and the board. There is no one who can raise his hand to say, no, we need to win the title or the champions league, lets buy quality players. The problem is Wenger, he did not explain to the owner that, in football, we need to waste to make sure, the club benefit. Wenger is only there to please Koroenke, and everyone can see that, Wenger is the main stumbling block when it comes to transfers of players. He is so pathetic when it comes to transfer deals, he does as if the money is his.

  43. GoonerBri

    Aug 17, 2016, 10:46 #91857

    Don't worry about AFC. Once Wenger decides to retire at the end of the season he'll tell us that he's got Pep Guardiola lined up to succeed him. Then he'll tell us PG will cost too much money, then he'll make a bid for him that is £2.50 short of what's needed, then when PG doesn't arrive Wenger will say we don't need PG because we already have a top top top quality Manager at the club and erm, that's him! So then the board will renew his contract at a higher salary, just like they've done for former and current players who spend all season on the treatment table collecting their salary and doing fcuk all to earn it, which is exactly what Wenger does now. Wenger, Gazidis and Kroenke out now!

  44. andy b

    Aug 17, 2016, 10:44 #91856

    really good piece , enjoyed reading it ,I am a 55 year old Arsenal supporter who remembers the good times and bad who's first experience of colour t.v. was the 1971 F.A. cup final , I just feel so frustrated that we are only 3 or 4 players away from something special yet we seem to argue over 4 or 5 million (if the reports are to be believed)yet every year lately we hope only to have those hopes smashed after Christmas , and I am grateful to mr Wenger for what he has done I think it's time for a change.

  45. goonersol

    Aug 17, 2016, 10:20 #91855

    Worried : we have been worried for the last 10seasons, what's changed ? As long as Wenger & Regime are happy making up the numbers and the money that goes with it, the rest of us can go take a hike, maybe the tide is turning, and we may see change soon....as for CL qualification for 19yrs ...boring... other teams have done that, does not make them world beaters ( Dy kiev for one)...Change is a coming.

  46. Clarky

    Aug 17, 2016, 10:02 #91854

    This is going to be one hell of a long, hard season. I am not sure that I can be bothered with it all.