Arsenal FC is humiliation central as team self-implode once again

Online Ed: Another 90 minutes against Bayern, another 5-1 defeat



Arsenal FC is humiliation central as team self-implode once again


The protest march demanding no new contract for Arsene Wenger was vociferous and well-attended. No-one wanted things to reach this level, but at least it leaves the board in no doubt that fans are now prepared to mobilise to avoid further repeats of the kind of collapse we saw from Arsenal last night. The result that followed merely confirmed why the manager is a spent force.

Arsene has never done defence as such. He relies on his senior players to sort out that side of the game, and he hasn’t got enough of the right type and hasn’t had since the break up of the Invincibles. The consequence is two FA Cups in the ten seasons since the move from Highbury. From a potential 40 trophies, it’s not a great return for a club with Arsenal’s means and trophy winning opportunities. Ultimately, Arsenal’s defending, or lack of it, has cost them dear so many times.

Last night didn’t really matter in the greater scheme of things. The tie was done and dusted in Munich. However, it was an opportunity to at least restore some pride after four defeats in the previous six fixtures. Arsenal started well. Theo Walcott hit the target and beat Manuel Neuer to lift the crowd (or at least the three quarters of ticket buyers that bothered to turn up) and make them dream of the impossible. Walcott, enthused by his goal, fired wide afterwards when he would have been better centering. TV replays showed that he should also have been awarded a penalty for a challenge by Alonso, but it was difficult to see with the naked eye. So not a stonewall penalty as Wenger subsequently claimed.

Early in the second half, Giroud had a free header which he put over, and that was that for Arsenal’s chances. Arsene Wenger complained that the Bayern penalty should not have been awarded because Lewandowski was offside. I’ve watched it about three times since and Nacho Monreal is playing him on. Koscielny brought him down for an indisputable spot kick and the referee issued him a yellow card. That it then became red was a bit of a shambles and admittedly the situation was badly handled. Why was the card changed? I can only think the referee thought that there might have been cover for Koscielny but was corrected by the official behind the by-line.

More pertinent, Lewandowski was in position to draw the foul because the visitors had cut through Arsenal’s ranks in a similar fashion to that witnessed in the first leg. Arsene had 11 days to work on his team’s defensive solidity, or allow Steve Bould to, between the matches against Sutton United and Liverpool. I suspect they didn’t.

So down to ten men, a successful penalty made it 1-1. 10 man Arsenal against a full strength Bayern Munich side (suspension to Phillip Lahm allowing). What chance of scoring four in the remainder of the game and not conceding? It was time to consolidate and see the match out with pride intact. However, the team evidently felt they had nothing to lose and what followed would not have surprised anyone. The next 35 minutes saw the stands gradually empty until there were maybe 15,000 left at the full time whistle, more exiting with each successive Bayern goal.

In the post match conference, Arsene blamed the referee for the result. Granted, he made a shambles of the red card, but it was undoubtedly a penalty and the red card was probably the correct award, unless the rules have been changed. So this was a classic case of a manager shifting the blame away from himself, something we have got used to with Arsene. He never takes responsibility for his own failings because he has zero humility.

Anyway, another last 16 European exit confirmed. Arsenal have not won a European knockout game at home for five years. The players are unmotivated and there is an air of freefall. Alexis Sanchez is 95% not going to be at the club next season unless the club take drastic action. I believe there must be an issue with them awarding any player more wages greater than the manager, a policy that limited their ability to sign N’Golo Kante last summer, and is putting a ceiling on the offers being made to Sanchez and Ozil. It’s a question that needs to be asked of the manager or the board as it’s very relevant to football today. I have asked before whether anyone thinks Luis Enrique is earning more than Lionel Messi.

Anyway, the club has been allowed to descend to a level whereby it is going to take at least a couple of seasons for the next manager to turn this around. A lot of players need to be shown the door if they cannot respond to the kind of coaching they are evidently not getting under Wenger. The prospect of Wenger actually having the gumption to continue for two years, let along the board allowing him to does not bear thinking about. How many repeated humiliations are Arsenal prepared to take?

Not being in the Champions League next season would at least allow a new manager to work on the team, and play the stiffs in the Europa League, exiting that as quickly as possible. The work that Conte has managed to do at Chelsea will take longer, even under someone of the quality of Allegri. The reason being that a season before Conte arrived, most of the players he had at his disposal had won the Premier League. That’s territory unknown to anyone at London Colney. There is more work to do, more deadwood to shift.

The rebuild is a fact. What recent matches have revealed is that a lot of the squad aren’t actually of the standard required, especially in midfield. There will be at least two seasons required to return the club to one capable of a challenge for the title. Additionally, the directors need to look at building a structure whereby the manager simply deals with coaching the first team and preparing them for matches. Take a look at the organization in place at Manchester City, Chelsea and Bayern Munich. Get decent scouts on board and ideally, experienced football heads determining football strategy. The current situation? “If the manager does not have a plan, we keep quiet”. The words of Chairman, Sir Chips Keswick in October 2014.

There is no point delaying what needs to happen. It is difficult to see how the team as it is, completely unmotivated and not interested in playing for the manager, cognisant that he is a spent force, will make the top four. An FA Cup semi-final exit will probably put the lid on what has been a horrible season and the end of season lap of appreciation will be conducted to a few thousand hardy souls that remain from about 40,000 that will bother to show up for the Everton game on May 21st. Arsenal could be beaten by Spurs at the Lane, Manchester City and Manchester United at the E******s and trips to Southampton and Stoke now look ominous. That Everton game might even see the side sink to seventh place, which might be a blessing in disguise, assuming of course, that the manager is given his cards in the summer. It would be pointless having extra time to work on tactics and organisation under Arsene.

I suspect I was not alone, but I didn’t feel any pain last night seeing the team collapse. It was just like watching a West End farce at the theatre, only more expensive. I’ve stopped caring about Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal. It’s now just entertainment, a well-worn comedy that continues to deliver with its slapstick collapses. I will only care again when the club install a new manager who will address the basics to make this club genuinely competitive again, from pretenders to contenders.

It’s time for the board of directors to grow a pair and do the right thing for the club and its supporters, not Arsene Wenger’s farcical sense of hubris. Arsenal lost 10-2 on aggregate? If it wasn’t for the referee they’d be in the quarter finals, according to the straw-clutching man in the zipcoat. #NoNewContract – please.

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comments

  1. mbg

    Mar 09, 2017, 18:42 #99191

    SKG, and I bet if TLSOE hadn't brought him on in the dying seconds all those years ago at Highbury for his tenth appearance of the season to ensure him a medal he'd be singing from a different hymn sheet today. we want wenger out we want wenger out.

  2. Hi Berry

    Mar 09, 2017, 11:09 #99157

    Sorry Leek, I've been 'enjoying' the future for the past ten years and not really liking the look of it.

  3. markymark

    Mar 09, 2017, 10:30 #99149

    RobG - Well said we will still be here when he's gone though heart disease in my family may leave me shaking my fist at the old git from my death bed. Anyway on the bright side he's got a major major problem. Don't view me on the last few results etc. The problem for bumbler is that it's not just a few and it's stretching into a sackable offence by itself. Over on LeGrove they had a podcast where it was mentioned that someone in the club had said DMW (dead man walking) despite his wanting to remain. With PSG's humiliation that manager is out meaning they need a replacement. One year of Wengo then executive I reckon in their board. The Emirates Sheiks love him. On a further note Tony (liar) Attwood is now changing his tack. Saying so you want him gone what are you going to do about it. Interesting that Tony is having to take this very defensive posture on his arch Wengo site. Reminds me a bit of the 3rd Reichs slow retreat from Stalingrad as the realisation was the war was lost and a defensive retreat and hold out was the only option.

  4. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Mar 09, 2017, 9:30 #99144

    I see Martin Keown is at it again, pledging his love for the great visionary that is Arsene Wenger. He states in his piece, with absolutely no sense of irony, that Arsene told him in a "firm and soft manner that now was the right time to go" MK also states that he was grateful for this advice. Yes Martin, and now someone from the board needs to tell Arsene the same message - now is the right time to go. (Actually 5 years ago was the right time to go) It amazes me what a bit of BBC training can do to some players, Keown's loyalty to Arsene and Arsenal? This is the man who turned his back on Tony Adams, Rocky, Micky Thomas, Paul Merson and the others of that great crop of youth team players, for a few bob more at Villa Park, as I said absolutely no sense of irony. However MK likes to play it, George Graham and his beloved Arsene only ever saw him as squad player and never a first choice. Now Martin is trying along with many others to re write the history of Arsenal football club and I aint having it!

  5. RobG

    Mar 09, 2017, 8:50 #99143

    Leek - we have 'out grown' Wenger as the results and performances sadly show. I would suggest - politely - that you and your fellow cultists start coming to terms with that. He either goes in May, or tries to force another two years and the ensuing agony for all concerned with the Club renders his position untenable some time within that period. Either way, a new Manager looms.

  6. markymark

    Mar 09, 2017, 8:44 #99142

    Leekey: 1: who will win the title 2017-2018? Prediction please 2: will you still support Arsenal when Wenger goes? 3: do you believe in Stan Kronke's vision for the club? 4: why do you not post on Untold? Be careful what you wish for!

  7. Leek fc

    Mar 09, 2017, 7:55 #99141

    Hi Berry. So you want the club to move forward yet you live in the past. We outgrew Highbury, get over it.

  8. Petergooner

    Mar 09, 2017, 7:52 #99140

    Hopefully Wenger watched Barca v PSG.That is how we awant to play like we use to. Look at these comments Luis Enrique said:- "If a team can score four times against us, we can score six times against them." (Wenger should ahve thought the same). So what has changed since then? First and foremost, the mood around the club appears altogether more relaxed. Enrique's decision to announce his summer departure immediately following the win over his old club Sporting drained much of the tension that had surrounded his future.(Wenger have you thought this no). He had described himself as "tired" that day (just like Wenger). His tactical tweaks have been roundly criticised this season and he has been culpable for some curious selection decisions.(Just Like Wenger although Wenger has not tweaked anything except all the true fans). A new formation has helped too (Wenger new forwation. That is a PLAN B,C ETC) Of course the turn around was facilitated by PSG's edginess and lethargy, the French side seemingly paralysed by fear in the first half and overcome by the Barca side late on.(Rings so many bells eh??) ENRIQUE FOR GOONERS NEXT SEASON. GOT TO BE. HOW MANY TROPHIES HAS ENRIQUE WON COMPARED WITH WENGER AND WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN? EASY QUESTION:- LEAGUE, LA REY CUP, CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, WORLD CHAMPIONS. (THAT IS ENRIQUE OF COURSE).

  9. Hi Berry

    Mar 09, 2017, 7:25 #99139

    Ebor...you forgot Bradford. Leek..as others have already posted on here my post re the Emirates tour was not one of admiration. To be honest I felt a sense of detachment from it all - there were changing rooms with shirts hanging up, there was a football pitch, there were lots of photos of things Arsenal, there was a room with twelve FA cups in (photo opportunity at a price, anyone?), but it felt more like I was touring the offices of a faceless conglomerate. The fact that the players now have a private entrance at which the coach deposits them away from the eyes of the great unwashed says it all really. There was a time when they walked through the supporters and up the steps to get into the marble halls....now that would have been a tour I would have loved to go on. Needless to say my daughter loved sitting on the changing room seat of Sanchez etc. but then she's twelve and twelve-year-olds love that kind of thing. At times I feel quite sorry that I have inflicted the team I grew up loving on her when, in reality, it doesn't exist anymore.

  10. Ebor Gooner

    Mar 09, 2017, 0:32 #99138

    Ignoring the current humiliating 5-1 (aggregate 10-2) losses to Bayern, In no particular order - Arsenal's worst performances under Wenger. Lost 6-3 Man Citeh, losing to Birmingham (subsequently relegated) in League Cup final, 6-1 ManUre, 5-1 Liverpool, 3-1 Monaco, 5-1 Tottenham (League Cup), 6-0 Chelsea, 4 up at half time against Newcastle, draw 4-4, 8-2 ManUre. Who thinks any other top flight club would accept 2, or 3 of these - let alone all of them?

  11. Cyril

    Mar 08, 2017, 23:34 #99137

    Nick T: precisely and there in lies the rub! The point of my original sentiments, which Ron succinctly breaks down and compartmentalises. You see, I don't care anymore to the answer to this question: Who's fault is it Darth Vader or the Emperor?.

  12. markymark

    Mar 08, 2017, 23:29 #99136

    Squeak: 1: stop shining your bell end and give us facts why Wenger should stay. 2: be careful what you wish for.

  13. CT Gooner

    Mar 08, 2017, 23:27 #99135

    You're not wrong Nick. Saw an article on sky sports suggestion Sanchez was the problem. Yes, that's exactly what it said. Some bollocks about miles run and possession lost, nothing about goals or assists?? Even had the gall to suggest xhaka was the best "because he covered more ground". Not all the media's against Wenger, there are still far too many apologists.

  14. Leek fc

    Mar 08, 2017, 23:17 #99134

    I genuinely didn't think you were that thick mbg. West Ham's ground was gifted to them by 29 million tax payers. Hardly the house that Karen built. In an era where every other major club to finance, build and move to a new stadium has been relegated..... apart from????? Well you all know the answer eh.

  15. NickT

    Mar 08, 2017, 22:59 #99133

    The Wenger issue is not a debate anymore and it hasn't been for a long time now which is why in recent weeks Ive found my anger has switched from the manager to those above. Say what you like about AW but theres 2 things in particular to really admire about him - firstly I believe he really does love the club (far more than any of our current players or board members!) and secondly he never shys away from his duties fronting the media. Yes he talks a lot of bollocks these days but what else can he do in what must be extremely difficult circumstances. The ones I increasingly despise are Kroenke, Gazidis etc. - sticking the new contract offer in front of Wenger is like planting a bottle of scotch in front of an alcohlic. Its the easy option yet deep down they must see what everyone else is seeing....not only is he the wrong person to take the club forward but that this job is the wrong option for AW. Someone needs to take the decision away from him for the sake of both AFC and AW yet those who could appear as gutless as the current squad!! Wenger has to go, and I now think he will one way or the other, but that must only be the start. Longer term there are far bigger problems at our club than AW. Wenger gave all of us some wonderful memories in his first 10 years but what the f*ck has that parasite Kroenke ever done for our club since taking over....it will take much more than replacing Wenger for us to get our Arsenal back!!

  16. Leek fc

    Mar 08, 2017, 22:55 #99132

    Whaadya reckon. 150 turnout this Saturday for the demo. I reckon most won't want to show there face in the daytime. Please fellas. Give it up........ it's a waste of ink and paper but it gives the rest a good old laugh.

  17. mad max

    Mar 08, 2017, 22:53 #99131

    we should be targeting the board as well they are the only people who can get rid of this arrogant c---t the whole thing has become a farce. the silence from the yank and ivan is deafening. and guys stop letting this leeky character wind you up, he,s obviously mentally ill along with a lot of others still defending the clueless clown

  18. mbg

    Mar 08, 2017, 22:49 #99130

    Paulward, and West Hams new ground has just won an award tonight Stadium of the year, and the ground that the AKB's messiah built and mixed all that mortar and cement on in his steel toe capped boots is becoming more dated as every year goes by, and as you say with Tottenham and Chelsea, and Liverpool still to come the soulless bowl where TOF did all that hod carrying on will be out dated and crumbling before it evens feels like our home let alone be able to call it such (if we ever can) and need renovating and rebuilding again, maybe the laughing stock of Europe (TLSOE) can don his steel toe capped boots one last time before he pisses off and finish the job he's started properly, and knock it down with a ball and chain, he might be happy then. Go now wenger your not wanted here.

  19. GoonGer

    Mar 08, 2017, 22:20 #99129

    Oh Neymar you remind me of Wally... Unbelievable performance. Arse yep you've got the Barca job in the bag!! They will be unbeatable when you but Ramsey . Here endeth the lesson to why Sanchez is frustrated

  20. RegW

    Mar 08, 2017, 22:18 #99128

    PSG trying to hoover up the record cock ups before Clouseau takes charge? I've every faith he'll better that one for them

  21. RobG

    Mar 08, 2017, 22:04 #99127

    I try not to comment adversely on other posters but Leek only a cultist obsessive could post 'must do better' referring to other supporters on a match report covering a 2 - 10 aggregate debacle. I would suggest to you and everyone else, that first and foremost, it's the team that 'needs to do better'. Without some drastic changes of personnel, it won't.

  22. mbg

    Mar 08, 2017, 21:56 #99126

    Did you see the proper Barca tonight wenger ? you waste of space, that's how it's done, Barca lite my fooking arse, light years away more like. We want wenger out.

  23. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 08, 2017, 21:56 #99125

    Leek, you actually think Hi Berry was talking about the corporate boxes like he approves. The one thing you're good at is showing us how thick you are.

  24. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2017, 21:47 #99124

    Ooooooh Barcelona ....

  25. RegW

    Mar 08, 2017, 21:31 #99123

    Leeky - a little bit of history for you. Arsenal started talking about a new ground way back around the late 70's. A ground share with spurs at Ally Pally, didn't come off because there was little money in the game back then. Move on 30 years and low and behold the Sky money comes piling in and new grounds are all the rage. Point is Clouseau had nothing to do with it, he was just the incumbent at the time. The banks didn't lend the money because if him (staggering arrogance we've got used to) but because of land/property prices in one of the worlds greatest cities. The deluded fool had feck all to do with it but you believe away.

  26. Paulward

    Mar 08, 2017, 20:43 #99122

    Cyril : Quite right, the Emirates is a pig sty compared to the palace that was Highbury. Football is about passion and that bond between supporters and players, that just doesn't exist at the joyless concrete bowl that Wenger allegedly built. Very soon Chelsea and Tottenham will have bigger and better stadiums, and besides moving ground has delivered us what in terms of success? 2 FA cups in 10 years.Wenger Out

  27. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 08, 2017, 20:41 #99121

    Leek - You mug. It's you and me - the people who buy tickets and watch games on the telly - that built that stadium you fool. It may have been constructed by some geezer with his arse hanging out of his trousers, but make no mistake, all of us on this site and gooners everywhere built it. Your close companion wengo, on the other hand, is dismantling the club and sucking money out of it. Can you seriously not see that? That feeling of humiliation has diminished since the 8-2 when I'll admit I was privately inconsolable for weeks. It really fecking hurt to lose that way to manure. But since then the embarrassment and pain has lessened, not least because I know it's not my fault that the club I love is being wrecked. Leekie, wengo, ivan, stan, bouldy and the other enemies within - your boys took one hell of a beating. Vielen Dank Bayern Munich.

  28. Cyril

    Mar 08, 2017, 20:09 #99120

    Hi Ron, bravo!. I'm an Elvis fan and Highbury is my Graceland. It was once the place that Arsenal lived. I haven't been back since I watched footy as the sight of that beautiful building now being the site of residential units for the really wealthy is another candle that has been blown out since I was a child. Local schools in my area around Islington which were for the local poor people are now everything but academies as one or two are sandwiched in between Victoriana and are subject to postcode property price lottery. Lots of the Islington that was free for the people has been sold. Ron, I will go to Graceland one day and shed a tear. And I will go to Avenell Rd one day and shed a tear too.

  29. Leek fc

    Mar 08, 2017, 20:08 #99119

    Hi Berry. Did it ever dawn on you during the stadium tour, that this was the house that Arsene built. He's spoilt us has he not?? I'm sure he's hardly quaking in his boots over 200 louts when 40,000 came to town. Must do better WOB's. A lot better.

  30. mbg

    Mar 08, 2017, 20:01 #99118

    Alsace, that was my very next question/topic, i to cant understand how so many want him to go with dignity and respect and think he deserves to, his head held high, he doesn't f*****g deserve it, what dignity has he shown over all the embarrassments and humiliations over the years ? (and everything that has went with them, the lists endless) even last night none shown, everyone must have short memories, have we all suddenly forgot the last eleven seasons ? (and everything that went with them) the humiliations, the shyte players, the spin, the lies, the excuses, what decency has he ? what decency has he shown ? what respect has he shown ? for anything, he's brought this club virtually to it's knees and still he's clinging on, hear what he has been saying today ? the arrogant c**t, if he had any decency or respect for us or the club he'd have resigned long ago let alone last night, he has no respect or dignitiy whatsoever so deserves none back, he deserves to go humiliated to the last, a broken man, boo's and jeers ringing in his ears, legacy ruined with the reputation of exactly what he is, The embarrassment of Europe.

  31. Hi Berry

    Mar 08, 2017, 19:30 #99117

    Ron...an excellent post which gets right to the heart of the problem. I went on a stadium tour a couple of weeks back with the cheeky chappie Charlie George (yes, I know I shouldn't be putting any money into the money-grabbing machine, but despite my advanced years I have a twelve year old duaghter - excellent footballer may I add - and my wife treated us). Interesting as it was to see how plush everything was behind the scenes, Charlie's script continually referred to the number of executive and corporate boxes there are now compared to Highbury and how well people are fed and watered and kept reeling off the staggering sums of money the boxes bring in. About fifty people on that tour (that assembles in the club shop) at £20 a pop - £1000 for a couple of hours.The money just keeps rolling in. Despite this, a very genial host was Charlie and I was happy to shake the hand (and take a photo of him with my daughter) of the player who sent me leaping out of my chair in May 1971.

  32. mbg

    Mar 08, 2017, 18:57 #99116

    The biggest aggregate beating in 53 seasons, yes 53 f*****g years (what you think of that AKB's ? )thanks wenger you good for nothing c**t. If that isn't a sackable offence on it's own regardless of all the others what is ? And any other manager on this earth with any shred of decency, dignity, or self respect left in his body who has just been humiliated and set a record like that would have resigned immediately, if not certainly by now, but this spent Gallbladder hasn't an ounce of decency, dignity, or self respect in him. Go now you laughing stock of Europe.

  33. skipper

    Mar 08, 2017, 18:54 #99115

    We all know what the problem is - Wenger will not leave.

  34. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2017, 18:44 #99114

    Last nightreally was the old cat playing with mice cliche and big pussy BM let Theo have a quick nibble of the cheese and then Smack! little ****ers go reeling! afteron of their TEN goals I was looking at the names on their shirts - evryone a ****ing Euro legend. Nice pussy though because it could have easily been 15 - 2 over two legs. Bit olser now that puss and the younger model would have made Wengo resign today. Just play with the lickle bitches a bit more. Granite has completely and should have walked in the second half. Lincoln will be targeting the usual suspects. Great posts from Paulward and Cyril. Makes me think of my upbringing born in a house off Hornsey road and also remembering many drunken, mad youth nights in The Hercules with a disco, occasional row and a pub full of gooners and that was not even a match day! We're talking 70s now. Yep **** off Wenger you boring ****!

  35. CORNISH GOONER

    Mar 08, 2017, 16:57 #99113

    Ron, you put things very well. Arsenal Corporation have taken the wrong path & just saw the stadium move as a cash cow for Stan, Ivan, Webster & the elite (which includes many overpaid players). They thought they could do without their old fanbase because London is now a City State where the local population is gradually being forced out to cheaper locations. However, the tourists who now attend do not have the passion or loyalty to a club. But a significant chunk of income comes from lucrative deals with sponsors who have to demand success on the field to justify their investments. Incredibly Webster still doesn't seem to "get it", is living in a parallel universe & to me seems as if he is intending to cling on. My hope of an early exit for Monsieur Hubris lies with Inscrutable Ivan & the major sponsors. You have to have hope!!

  36. Bard

    Mar 08, 2017, 16:49 #99112

    I agree with those who have suggested we played quite well in the first half but context is everything. The tie was over and there was nothing on the game. Once Bayern woke up in the second half as Jeff has suggested it was game over. We dont have either the nous, the heart or the tactical discipline to prosper in these games. There isnt a cat on hells chance of Wenger taking us to another level unless its down.

  37. Exeter Gunner

    Mar 08, 2017, 16:46 #99111

    Personally I've reached the stage where I wish Wenger had never turned up. The early success hasn't been worth the cost. In a parallel universe a Wenger-less AFC are at a Highbury expanded to whatever the max would've been, Kroenke never got involved, there was a recognition of the need to keep some prices at a level that the original core support could still afford... I could go on. Instead the identity has been stripped away to be replaced by... well, we can all see it for what it is now. Everything we are supposed to be grateful to Wenger for, how he's 'transformed' the club, is the 'architect' of modern Arsenal, is everything I hate him for.

  38. Bob Bayliss

    Mar 08, 2017, 16:06 #99110

    I see Walcott is saying "we've got to fight for Wenger" in the Standard. Of course he is....what other manager would pick him week in week out and put him on the sort of contracts he is on

  39. jeff wright

    Mar 08, 2017, 16:01 #99109

    GR, I stick with my view that the refs decisions had minimal effects on the result .5 - 2 instead of 5-1 hardly matters. The writing was on the wall right at the start of the second half when Bayern changed tack and went on the offensive and were well on top before Keystone Kos got his red card for pushing Lewo over .I can't see how that was a coming together of the two perhaps the Pole made a meal of it as strikers are wont to do if a defender raises his paws in anger to them and gives them a sissy push but that is the way it is.Real top defenders should know better. The collapse though by our midfield and defence and the error by Ospina looked likely to happen anyway it's not like this is anything unusual but rather par for the course. Wengo seized on the sending off to try and claim that this changed the game when in reality the change had already begun because the Germans had switched from defense to offense after the half-time interval and the outcome of this was that the away result was repeated for Wengo . Who as usual had no idea of how to cope with the situation he can't think on his feet everything with him is pew-planned and when the plan is obviously not working the clown still persists with it. So Pires says that an horrendous tackle on Sancho was the cause of the training ground bust up that according to lying Arsene never occurred .Sancho's response to the tackle was ,hey if you c*nts tackled the oppo like that we wouldn't lose so many games ! No wonder he smirked when that 10th goal went in. You couldn't make it up.

  40. Yes its Ron

    Mar 08, 2017, 15:48 #99108

    Mg - thats just it though, AFC arent a 'major' european FC. Theyve a bank account that makes them a largish sport based business, but theyre not a major player euro wide in their sport and in truth never have been. Theyre a domestic giant and it stops there. As for sacking him, the thrashings this last 6 yrs merit that solely for being the biggest Club in Islington.

  41. Moscowgooner

    Mar 08, 2017, 15:42 #99107

    Would any other major club in Europe not fire their manage after back to back 5-1 defeats in the Champions League??

  42. Paulward

    Mar 08, 2017, 15:27 #99106

    Ron, very good post. The move to Emirates has taken the gentrification of AFC to a new level. Working class supporters are few and far between and this has now spread to the away support too. Talk of class can seem dated but to me it's still a factor, and as you rightly point out the two clubs that are bigger than us in England, Utd and Liverpool are still noticeably rooted in they're local ( mainly working class ) communities. There is no way these clubs supporters would have sat on their hands and done nothing when faced with the Kroenke/ Gazidis / Wenger rip off years. The club has undergone huge transformation since 1996, but has it really changed for the better?

  43. Alsace

    Mar 08, 2017, 15:11 #99105

    Here's a few things. Firstly,why does anyone see the need for a dignified exit for Wenger. On the contrary, honour demands that he is shown the door against his will. Sadly there are no longer any Arsenal supporters in the boardroom. The manager could, in some strange some sort of universe blame the board for his continued presence, but he really has no self respect or honour. How long he will be allowed to abuse our grand old football club is anyone's guess. I wish the whole rotten crew pain and desolation. Surely the club could raise the money to pension them all off They are only here for the money. I wonder which of the players would take the job of sacking the mananfger if he got fifty quid extra. I would get Walcott to sdo it. He is a waste of space metaphor for the Wenger era.

  44. Yes its Ron

    Mar 08, 2017, 15:11 #99104

    Hi Cyril - i think as a London Club the detachment from the community in which a Clubs based from what the Club is can happen more easily. Commercialism runs rampant for any entity in London. The roots of the entity are nothing, unless theyre used to drum up trade. For eg, Man Utd dwarf AFC in terms of the size of the Club but such is the size of the City, the Club is still distinctly a Manchester (Salford really) Club even though the World would know who they are if they played home games on Christmas Island. They've done that in part by keeping prices suitable for the local populace. Ive a friend who goes there and has a seat 9 rows back just on right side of the tunnel and she pays £528 . Ive sat in her seat. Great view and can hear the players talking as they emerge. Since Arsenal went all 'continental' from 2001 onwards theyve totally disregarded their locals, such as you and thousands of others in their quest and greed for profit. Utd have never done that, preferring instead to grow the commercial side and thus insulate the supporters. Theyve done it through creating teams on the pitch that win Cups and dont shame the club or the fans. I honestly think Arsenal have got carried away this last 10 years. Got drunk on the income from that ground, spun the fans, spun the players even and unforgivably, forgotten who they are and where they come from. The chickens are home to roost now. Their folly is apparent for all to see. Not before time. I truly dont think any of the large provincial City Clubs would have had owners who would have behaved in this way and im know they have fans who wouldn't have let it happen. Ive said it many times on here, football isnt near as fundamental to supporters in London as it is elsewhere. Far to passive and far too many other things in peoples lives for it to be so. AFC has used this to their advantage. The Clubs hidden behind London commercial culture and forgotten what its product is. To recreate the massive cultural shift needed to make Arsenal a football Club again runs alongside a new Coachs job on the pitch. Its a great big task and they need the right man in as Coach and the right men into the Board. People underestimate the effects of whats happened and the size of the task. The fans no longer trust Arsenal. Many dont like them too much anymore. AW going starts the re build task in more ways than just on the 25 man squad in my view.

  45. MAF

    Mar 08, 2017, 14:50 #99103

    does anyone here think Simeone's Teams would lose 5-1 to anyone? rollover to anyone ...? Athletico are not a rich Club but they are well managed and way agead of Arsenal and genuinely give Real, Barca, Bayern a run for their Money every single year

  46. CT Gooner

    Mar 08, 2017, 14:49 #99102

    I thought we played some of our best football of the year in the first half, we actually had them on the back foot. Unfortunately for Arsenal though, the defense is always just one cock up away from implosion. Last nights "event" was Kos pushing his way past Thiago to shoulder barge Lweinowski off the ball. Blatant penalty, don't have any idea where the claims of offside are coming from, though thought we'd dodged a bullet with the yellow card, only for the goal line referee to actually do his job and tell the referee what he saw. After that though, where were the leaders, where was the pride! It had the feeling of we (the players) don't care, so why should we the fans care and support this club financially and emotionally. I've felt cheated by the manager and owner for several years, but for the team to be so yellow bellied is an absolute affront to The Arsenal Way.

  47. mbg

    Mar 08, 2017, 14:17 #99101

    bradyorbergkamp, you were shocked last night at how things turned and become ? really ? what way were they before last night ? either you've been in hibernation for seven or eight seasons or just didn't want to see, because a lot of us weren't shocked at all, it came as no surprise whatsoever, and that's not the first trimming we've took either under the tinkerman we already have in case you've forgot, and there's still more to come too, all we need is a manager worth his salt who knows what he's doing in all areas of the pitch, (especially defence) unlike the laughing stock of Europe we have now, a requirement of any decent manager these days and that would do us the very best for now. Laughing stock of Europe out.

  48. Paulward

    Mar 08, 2017, 14:12 #99100

    Thoroughly agree Kevin. It's been Arsene FC for way too long, and I for one was never completely comfortable with it even during the good times, mainly because of the European underachievement. Anyway, it is clearly over and it's up to the board to finish it with dignity and not drag our great club through anymore mud.

  49. markymark

    Mar 08, 2017, 13:22 #99099

    This may throw a curve ball. One site reports a two extension was offered however it was offered in 2016. Thus taking him to 2018. Wenger was not interested as maybe he gambled he could continue rolling contracts until he retired or maybe he wanted to go in 2017 ( I suspect continuing till retirement was the driving force ). The board are therefore expecting him to in 2017 and approached 3 managers through a 3rd party. One rejected outright but Allegri is allegedly interested. It may not be beyond the bounds of possibility that a contract was offered post season in 2016 and seeped into the public domain in 2017

  50. mbg

    Mar 08, 2017, 13:22 #99098

    The second Kos the cart Hos was sent off my mate shouts there's TOF's get out of jail card, and low and behold, his forked tongue spinning like a top, but thankfully it hasn't and isn't working this time, everyone has seen through the excuse making f*****g waste of space for exactly what he is long past his sell by date and not up to the job, and hasn't been for years. Go now laughing stock of Europe.

  51. The Man From UNCLE

    Mar 08, 2017, 13:16 #99097

    Think about this for a moment. The club has just suffered its worst ever European defeat, not just on aggregate but also at home. To a good, but far from great, Bayern Munchen. We have also endured since 2011 the worst defeats in the clubs history. 2-8. 0-6. 1-5. Losing a LC semifinal to a 4th division outfit. This is like death by a thousand cuts. Please let this nightmare end in the next few weeks.

  52. mbg

    Mar 08, 2017, 13:03 #99096

    Any remaining AKB's out there, Your messiah took one hell of a Beating and Humiliating last night, Sick man and Laughing stock of Europe, Go now you sick laughing stock.

  53. Cyril

    Mar 08, 2017, 13:00 #99095

    You know the sad thing for me is that when the club belonged to the fans, it was great to watch it become so popular for the last 30 years. We all felt so proud in Islington and the Town Hall and the local papers were so proud of this club which was in Islington. Now not only has the club been taken from the fans, but the 'corporation' only consider the relevance of Islington as the place where the club plays from. I don't feel proud anymore. We, the fans grew in pride as the club grew. But it has now been taken. Does Wenger, Kroenke or any of these people know anything about Islington? I doubt if Wenger has ever been down to Upper Street. Gutted!

  54. Yes its Ron

    Mar 08, 2017, 12:38 #99094

    redshirts - youre alone with those sentiments. I wished i still had yr passion for it though. Wenger and his gutless squads killed mine yrs ago.

  55. markymark

    Mar 08, 2017, 12:33 #99093

    https://sportnews.snai.it/calcio/calcio-estero/decisione-di-wenger-quote-champions-07032017-1738 They are saying that Wenger told the players he is going. Could be total BS of course

  56. ArsenalMagna

    Mar 08, 2017, 12:28 #99092

    Honestly, making judgements about players under Wenger is an entirely pointless exercise. Coquelin was playing brilliantly a few seasons ago, but his development is stunted because he isn't getting any training/advice on defending and, more importantly, the entire system of the team places no emphasis on that side of the game. When Steve Bould first joined our defence was brilliant - we saw a revolution in tactics which made us look the best we have the last 10 years. It was only Wenger's ego which led to changes, he'd rather lose his way than win with someone else getting the credit! Obviously players like Ozil, Giroud and Xhaka weren't great before they joined so you can legitimately say there's been a bad transfer policy, and deadwood would need shifting, but if we had a manager who understood tactics I think we could do very well in what is actually a fairly weak league in terms of the top clubs.

  57. TonyEvans

    Mar 08, 2017, 12:26 #99091

    Even after this latest humiliation I have no doubt Wenger will shrug it off, hope for a successful (in his deluded world anyway) end to the season (4th and a good run in the FA Cup), wait for the furore to die down and then sign on the dotted line to seal two more years of purgatory for us. That is why I wish Lincoln all the luck in the world, and I really hope they get a result against us, as surely even Wenger will have nowhere to hide if we lose at home to a non league outfit. Plus it will save us from a more than likely semi final defeat / humiliation at the hands of the Spuds, City, Utd or Chelsea. Gutted it has come to this but he simply has to go.

  58. GoonerRon

    Mar 08, 2017, 12:20 #99090

    @ Jeff - the ref just seemed to get a lot wrong to these eyes, although I haven't seen some of the incidents back. The pen for Theo, Vidal taking Alexis out at the knee with no card, lots of soft free kicks to Bayern in the first half when we pressed them, playing 1 minute of stoppage time in the first half despite the lengthy paper clean up operation, very soft yellows for Alaba and Theo. For their pen, I thought they changed the double jeopardy rule at the start of this season so it is only a pen and red if it was an obviously cynical foul with no attempt to play the ball, and for me it looked like a coming together and no more. Like I said, the refs performance doesn't excuse certain aspects of our performance at all but had we stayed at 11 there was a strong likelihood of us getting a positive result. The fact the crowd were animated enough to boo him probably says a lot.

  59. Redshirtwhitesleeves

    Mar 08, 2017, 12:18 #99089

    Our demise can be traced back to the end of the 49 game unbeaten run at OT. No doubt about it we were blatantly cheated that day, it was as disgraceful a refereeing performance as I've ever seen. Instead of using it as motivation and developing a siege mentality, Wenger showed his true colours and mentally collapsed. This spread like a cancer to his teams who subsequently have crumbled every single time they face the slightest pressure. We see it every season in this god awful 'champions' league, we see it every away game against any half decent team, we see it every time we can go top of the table- we simply bottle it on every occasion. This club now stinks of surrender and weakness and it comes from Wenger himself. It's never gonna change till the man packs his bags and leaves. Everyone can see it except for the fraud himself and that pair of parasites kroenke and gazidis. Please just go now all three of you. The players too should be ashamed of themselves, not just for last night but for every cowardly surrender of the last decade. Make no mistake we have become the biggest laughing stock in football, on the back of the greed, lies and spin of the triple headed axis of evil running our club. A special mention for koscielny- I never want to hear again what a 'world class' defender he is. He isn't. He would never have got near one of George grahams teams. A red card or penalty(or both) or 'injury' waiting to happen every time the pressure is on. By no means the worst player we've got, I'm just fed up of hearing how bloody amazing he is. I would clear the whole f****** lot of them out, I can't stand the site of this team. More humiliation is to come, hopefully Lincoln will put 5 past us on Saturday. Rant over

  60. markymark

    Mar 08, 2017, 12:06 #99088

    Arsene Wenger = Erich Honecker He'll keep on demanding power till the very last, but he's going to turn around at some point to address his power structure and find he's in an empty room. The decision is happening for him, I don't think he quite see's it yet. A stronger and actually more caring board would have now stepped in. It's making Chips and Ivan look gutless.

  61. jjetplane

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:59 #99087

    Just heard Pep G on the radio saying how two of his players still have much to learnn. He is talking about the presently brilliant Stirling and Sane who has hit the PL running and some. That is what you call a ****ing coach! Wenger with his spirit cock**** makes my stomach turn. Sounds like a mean old rat in a cage. Deplorable and well done you gooners who tell it like it is. Even FanTV was a great listen last night. SACK HIM!

  62. jeff wright

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:54 #99086

    Tbh GR the refs decisions had a minimal impact on the game this blaming the ref is just another Wengo excuse to shift the focus away from the real issues. Giro missed a sitter just before the interval why not mention that and did we have a shot on target in the second half >? The penalty awarded looked right and under the rules was a red job and not a yellow one so what did the ref apart from making a mess of the correct card to pull out of his pocket actually do wrong>? Keystone Kos him again would you Adam and Eve it is a Sunday pub league class player and that goes for Mustafamoan as well . Xhacho in midfield is useless to put it mildly. The German side made mugs of them once the second half began even having a goal ruled out straight after the restart for off-side but the writing was on the wall you could see Keystone Kos and co's knees trembling in trepidation as the Deutschlanders stepped up a couple of gears from sitting back defending to going on the attack for the last 45 minutes left to play and with them already holding a sizeable goal advantage over us. Did anyone seriously think, apart from himself of course, that Wengo could over-turn tht 5-1 trouncing in Munich. Damage limitation should have been the order and under a proper manager it would have been but to do that you need to be able to defend properly and under one trick pony Wengo defending is like Goal Keepers not a priority .Cech on the bench a GK who plays every week with Champions League winners experience and Ospina who plays only now and then and only has experience of Champions League trashings under hapless clueless Wengo in goal in a game we needed to keep a clean sheet in with the clown even gifting the opposition a goal .I thought that he should have saved at least one of the other goals ,the third one, as well .Good old Arsene.

  63. Yes its Ron

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:51 #99085

    Nice summary Kev. I think more than 2 yrs are needed to repair the Club to be honest. Decline is easier to effect than to ascend and we re looking at 10 yrs decline time here. I think a new broom under a new Coach given the tools to do the job will take 4 to 5 years to bring AFC to a title challenge again. I think really though, that we may get a patsy in first, before a real appointment - Moyesesque type scenario repeated. If that occurs, then longer than 5 yrs will be needed. I wouldnt be at all surprised if we end up with an Henry/ Bould 'dream ticket' sold to us as an interim set up but with an undelying agenda that its the intended solution. God help the Club if we do. Agree with you though in that the Club needs to rebuild away from that CL. its been a horrible tournie for Arsenal for 11 years now. The Club needs a release from it now.

  64. MAF

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:44 #99084

    People inside the world of Football are now laughing at Wenger & Arsenal. Wenger always lived in a bubble, never courted Exchange of ideas with other Managers, now that Isolation has really hit home, he's closed off to Change and Arsenal are an Island of mediocrity. compare to Fergy and most competitive People, always looking around them to listen learn and get better and compete more. Wenger has quite the opposite characteristics, sits inside French arrogance and completely closed hence our Club has now been completely overtaken by others. its a very sad times for Arsenal fans really worrying are we done for now or will the Club ever get back at least some of its original DNA.

  65. bradyorbergkamp

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:38 #99083

    Have to say i was shocked at how bad things turned last nite.i had hoped we could shuffle on untill the seasons end but last nite both on the pitch and the press interview has made me think he should go now.its sad its gone like this but if the team takes any more trimings like last nite there will be to much to fix.gardening leave and bring i the tinkerman to firefight to the seasons end.

  66. Perryashburtongroves

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:35 #99082

    The time has come. In fact the time came and passed years ago. Somebody please pull that trigger and get the whole thing done. Quite why he thinks he can sit there and hold the club to ransom, I do not know. Somebody needs to tell him to stop abusing the club and fans and just ****ing well announce that he's off. Somebody needs to pull that trigger and bring the whole sorry horror show to an end.

  67. Bard

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:31 #99080

    Decent Kev. Wouldnt argue with any of that report. I think where it feels different this time around is that we arent a very good side going through a poor patch as has happened in some of the previous seasons. As you say there is some serious squad rebuilding to be done and that takes time. We are seriously mediocre. It is inconceivable that he be allowed to sign on the dotted line for another 2 years. The board need to help him find a dignified exit strategy. Any more of last nights fiasco will tarnish all he has achieved for the club. Sadly his post match comments are making him a laughing stock. They are deluded rants.

  68. GoonerRon

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:25 #99079

    I was near the Armoury at the ticket office when the protest was going on and it all felt a bit surreal. I didn't join in, but understand why those that did felt powerless to impact change other than to do so. Although, it did seem like there were more people there to watch rather than join in. The ref was absolutely appalling in virtually all aspects all night - clearly it didn't impact the result of tie but undoubtedly shaped the outcome of the game. Last night didn't hurt because there was virtually no hope of getting through the tie, but I'm later in 'the process' than most on here so if I'm honest, I'm feeling a fair bit of turmoil about everything right now.

  69. Up For Grabs Now

    Mar 08, 2017, 11:14 #99077

    So, Wenger blames last night’s defeat yet again squarely on the back of the latest referee to fall foul of his mantra, to never ever make any refereeing decisions against Arsenal! Per Wenger, the ref was ‘Revolting’, well I have news for you Wenger, go look in the mirror and you will truly see someone who is ‘Revolting’!! We are also in great shape apparently, by which of course he means that finishing fourth is still on the cards, so that he and the board can justify renewing his ultra-lucrative contract, allowing this egotistical tyrant to try and continue his dictatorship! It simply must not be allowed to transpire.