Jese’s Giants

Online Ed – Arsenal lose at Stoke again



Jese’s Giants


Wikipedia - Jossy's Giants was a children's footballing comedy drama that ran on BBC1 between 1986 and 1987.

That’s just an explanation of the title for those too young to recall BBC children’s television, but footballing comedy drama is certainly in vogue at Arsenal once again. Once you stop really caring too much about the team’s fortunes (a situation I reached some time ago, acknowledging the club cannot contend again until the current manager departs), their games offer entertainment and pleasure regardless of the result. I still have a positive experience when I attend the Emirates and witness defeats against the likes of Liverpool, Bayern and Watford as we saw last season. Because I enjoy interacting with my neighbours, having a good chinwag about the game, and being amused by the team’s ability to shoot themselves in the foot by making the same errors over and over again. Slapstick at its finest. It doesn’t hurt anymore. Yesterday at the Britannia (or Bet365 if you prefer, but I’ve got used to the former so I am sticking with it), Arsenal rolled out the old lose possession in the middle of the park and get caught cold on the counter attack routine. It rarely fails to entertain. If you let stuff like this p*** you off either accept that you should not let something you cannot control affect you for the worse or start chanting against the manager at home matches. A third choice has been taken already by many – stop going to Arsenal games.

The interesting aspect about Mark Hughes’ Stoke side is that they were not even particularly physical. Defensively minded, sure – they let Arsenal have possession – but they had a decent enough gameplan. Attack on the break and utilise set pieces. Arsene’s team merely set out to express themselves and dominate the ball. And this they did, without the desired outcome of three points. Certainly, they were unfortunate not to get a penalty for the challenge on Bellerin and for the offside against Lacazette. But the underlying problems so obvious in the first fixture of the season against Leicester remain. When attacked, three at the back or not, it’s hot knife through butter time. Far too open and desperately crying out for a Gilberto / Kante / Matic type of defensive midfielder. The only one on the books is Coquelin and he isn't up to the standard required.

I recall when three at the back was being seen as the way forward after the run-in at the conclusion of last season. For the two FA Cup games at Wembley, the players performed with an intensity rarely seen – I think because there was a trophy in sight. In the remaining fixtures, they only once played a team that really tested the system… the final north London derby at White Hart Lane. We all know what happened there. The other matches were against relegation fodder or teams on the beach. So forget the formation, it's the motivation, organisation and ability of the personnel that is at question here. Arsenal will get enough results to qualify for Europe, be it Champions League or Europa League, but they are a long way from being title contenders, even with no CL distraction this season. Because of their ability to leak cheap goals.

Watching BT Sport, before the game, Martin Keown described Arsenal’s defending from set pieces as “laughable”. At half-time, with the score still level, Steven Gerrard stated that Wenger’s teams were “too easy to play against”. Soon after the re-start, the visitors were caught cold and new loan signing Jese put Stoke ahead. Losing possession sloppily in the opposition half, none of the Arsenal side made a meaningful challenge to win the ball back. They were torn apart by a side that looked completely impotent in their opening match of the season at Goodison Park. Even Saido Berahino almost scored.

Time for some input from the council of elders that sometimes offer me their thoughts. First up, a text from Ian Henry:
Right back at left back, two left backs at centre back and a midfield pairing as weak as I am with pneumonia. A surefire recipe for failure.

And by email from Mike Preston:
Arsene's playing post-senile total football. You play anyone you've got anywhere you fancy and then say you're not convinced by your central defence. Bizarre.

In the cup final, Arsenal played a back three of Holding – Mertesacker – Monreal. I can certainly understand the return of Mustafi to the starting line-up, but why then not play Mertesacker in the centre and Monreal to his left? Kolasinac could play left wing-back and then one of the Ox or Bellerin at right wing-back. Instead you have two left-backs in a three man central defence and a right back playing on their left. Balance? There were two fit centre-backs available for selection but left out of the side. And another one sold back to La Liga during the week. Is this some kind of total football experiment to completely do away with centre backs? Post match, the manager said, “I was not convinced by our central defence today”. Seeing the team line-up at kick off, we'll file that one under: No sh*t Sherlock. Football visionary or Fantasy League starting eleven come to life – take your pick.

Wenger referred to something called the ‘hunger index’ during his pre-match press conference when discussing the supposedly injured Alexis Sanchez (who I assure you will be fit enough for international duty with Chile at the end of the month). I wonder what he made of the hunger of his team against Stoke? Mesut Ozil was highlighted by the TV pundits, but the player has always been a passenger when the team has lost possession. In the Gooner Survey we asked: Mesut Özil's languid style and body language suggest a lack of commitment. Do you believe this to be the reality? The vote was 75% no. I wonder if that might be different if we took the poll today?

Asked for a three word match review of your team by Jake Humphrey I tweeted ‘uncommitted fancy dans’. The defenders weren’t much better in terms of desire in the challenge, with the exception of Mustafi. The bottom line is that Arsene wants to field as many attacking / creative players as he can. There is no room for destroyers to break up the opposition play because in the perfect game they never get the ball off Arsenal. The Gunners enjoyed 77% of possession yesterday. Possession may be nine tenths of the law, but in football, goals matter more. Arsenal have conceded four in their opening two matches and the next three include visits to Anfield and Stamford Bridge. And Stoke had more than one excellent opportunity to score more, Ryan Shawcross’ header probably the pick of them.

Laurent Koscielny will be back for next weekend and one imagines after yesterday, Mertesacker or Holding will also play at Liverpool. One swallow does not make a summer, but the two performances so far have been ominous. The manager looked like a haunted man in the post-match TV interview. It looks like he isn’t sleeping too much these days. I think he knows he is continuing to erode whatever good feeling there still is amongst the Arsenal supporters with each further performance of this nature. He is arrogant, stubborn and obstinate, and will hang around as long as he likes to prove his doubters wrong, something that isn’t going to happen as the game has left him behind long ago. But he runs the club now - after the summer just gone, that is not in doubt any more. Sadly, my suspicion is that things will start to get ugly again before too long. We are in for another season of ups, downs and cries for the manager’s head, when the only man who will decide when to call time on Arsènal is the tactical dinosaur in the zipcoat.

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41
comments

  1. Yes its Ron

    Aug 22, 2017, 10:58 #103320

    Baddie - ha. I recall well the discussions we had re jubblies!! The good thing about them was that they would often leap from that plasticised type receptacle they were in, land in the dusty gutter yet it never once stopped us from picking them up and eating them up regardless did it! We need to debate the merits and joys of Wagon Wheels one day?

  2. mbg

    Aug 21, 2017, 19:01 #103303

    SKG1, good posts, I might just break my own boycott for that game too, must get a Huddersfield Arsenal flag with the great Herbert Chapmans face on it made up, there's only one Herbert Chapman, come on Huddersfield Arsenal, an embarrassment for TOF in that one would/will be priceless. Herbert is still more alive and still thought more off than wenger ever will be. wenger out.

  3. mbg

    Aug 21, 2017, 18:25 #103298

    Well there you have it folks the highlight of the AKB's weekend yet again, the spuds getting beat (I wonder why) ambition at the highest level, you couldn't make it up. We want wenger out.

  4. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Aug 21, 2017, 17:34 #103293

    Badarse, I think Kev summed it up years ago when he spoke of the expectation we all had when we finally arrived at the ground that could generate the cash that would ultimately make us able to compete with the giants of Europe. The footballing leap required has been too much for the management but boy how they have made up for it on the money side - until this season, when even that looks like it's going to hit a wall. Down the leagues clubs do still have a fan friendly feel about them, yes it is on a much smaller scale and of course they would all like to be Arsenal.

  5. Badarse

    Aug 21, 2017, 17:10 #103291

    Ron I know your penchant for historical literary dramas; I remember discussing Abe Lincoln with you having read that giant's work-Gore Vidal. I bow to SKG and Wolf Hall, get that buddy. By the way SKG I do understand all you say, I tease and react to most posters it's true, but in all honesty I do have enormous empathy for anyone's loss, or perceived loss, they count as one and the same to the individual. I too would like certain things back. My youth, one of my children, the easy and uncomplicated life I enjoyed. McLintock, Highbury, my dad and mum, those lovely Jubbly lollies, (remember Ron?), The Beatles, and a million other things. Sadly the weight of change is upon us all and some things, for better or for worse will not return. We all deal with things in different ways, I just try to recognise that which will probably not change and I deal with it. It is great to recall Highbury-in an earlier post I mentioned that night in 1968, standing on the North Bank, I still feel the hopes of Wembley and the slight disappointment of only winning by an odd goal. As for thinking outside the box that's what Theo does every time he comes on as a sub, he stands and thinks but doesn't often act inside it. Mark of Nark we need a physics lesson my friend, Herbie is indeed dead, the other thing you mention is technically an imponderable, no matter how likely, so I think I should mention something about an overweight woman singing. If you are still in doubt I suggest you consult mbg, he knows all about heaven and hell.

  6. Nos89

    Aug 21, 2017, 14:05 #103284

    Kev, you might need to offer a different analogy to our defence as a hot potato offers more resistance to a knife than our defence does to a counter attack. Watching the game it seems to me wenger is putting out a team trying to keep everyone happy rather than fit for purpose. The Ox has excelled in right wing back, and is played regularly to keep him at the club. Bellerin also excels at right wing back but is started to keep him at the club. Monreal is played to keep him at the club, as is Welbeck. We are running down contracts in the hope they will sign because we can't attract like for like talent. Ozil is easy to pick on yet he was our creating force, picking out passes, going forward. After introducing Giroud we predictably stopped putting crosses in, we played lacazette with his back towards the goal, yet, play it in front of him towards the opposition goal and he will invariable hit the target. All so predictable. Wenger saying he wasn't happy with our centre back play is ridiculous, we have 4 very capable CB's yet he plays one of them, 2 left backs at CB, a right back at left back. You'd have thought we were struggling for players, but as wenger has said our squad is too big. After the international break, we will go back to 433. Cross the ball when the short guy is up front, play it through the middle when the big guy comes on,and blame Ozil everytime we lose...all too predictable!!!

  7. Goonhogday

    Aug 21, 2017, 13:28 #103279

    Well, we've been here before ! Now just waiting for Wenger to announce the sale of Sanchez by 31 August and the Goonhog day circle is complete for another Summer transfer window. Clearly it's business as usual in the boardroom. Wenger out.

  8. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Aug 21, 2017, 13:12 #103278

    Badarse, ironic that you should mention Hilary Mantel, her book Wolf Hall, chronicles the life of Thomas Cromwell, all be it fictional. I live next door to a 16th century building that Thomas Cromwell once lived in, I have walked around it's 500 year old rooms. So whilst understanding Hilary's view on life that sometimes "nothing is ever good enough" I can claim to actually see the real environment she talks of in Wolf Hall and whilst very tenuous I want people to be able to see the real Arsenal that now exists for what it is, not what it's "doped" board want us to see. Because trust me the Arsenal I used to see at Highbury was oh so much better.

  9. markymark

    Aug 21, 2017, 12:59 #103276

    Badarse - we know Chapman is dead just as dead as Wengo's capacity to lift Arsenal to a title.

  10. King Jeremy

    Aug 21, 2017, 12:07 #103271

    As many predicted, this is rapidly turning into the season where the chickens come home to roost. So, according to Wenger, we cannot buy without selling first and we cannot sell because clubs (rightly) will not pay our bang-average squad players the wages that we do, so the players elect to stay. Should we blame the protesting fans for that? The manager, who let us remember coaches (ha!) and selects the team states that he is "concerned" by our central defence consisting of two left backs who did a fantastic recreation of Bambi-on-ice. Again, protesting fans to blame? We spend a record £50m on a forward who then gets substituted for 100-goals-in-10-years Walcott when we require a goal to salvage a point. Fans Arsene? Bottom line is, Stan has got what he wanted - a spendthrift manager and a stable asset valuation. To all you AKBs out there I say this - you've got what you wanted, so enjoy the season. Me, for the first time ever and with no other commitments, I will elect not to watch Arsenal no live TV because I can no longer bear to what my beloved club continue on the same path. As much as I increasingly loathe Wenger, I would encourage people to consider the use of the suggestion of his senility. Until you've witnessed the effects of this first hand, you really cannot realise how hurtful this is.

  11. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Aug 21, 2017, 11:49 #103268

    Badarse: I am not summarizing anything I just want my Arsenal back and will say anything daft or sensible to help bring back a competitive edge to a very wealthy institution that has gone septic. I am a bit too working class to get heavy on thinking outside the box, thinking too much never got the job done did it?

  12. Yes its Ron

    Aug 21, 2017, 11:27 #103267

    Indeed we did Baddie. Shes a phenomenal thinker isnt she. i think when we discussed her had she done the Reith Lectures hadnt she? Im still to read more of her work though. Shame on me! Do you have a suggestion of any previous works of hers for me to start?

  13. Badarse

    Aug 21, 2017, 11:04 #103264

    Good morning SKG, I think your summary is quite selective, but you are entitled to that view. My riposte was to those trying to 'welcome' Huddersfield as new boys when they were in fact new boys when I was a young man. I would doubt if anyone recognises and promotes the amazing awareness of Herbie more than myself, I am a big fan, so too of Highbury. Dwelling in a place that doesn't exist,the past,is not conducive to mental well-being, just my view, but am entitled to contend mawkish overuse of sentimental misuse of the past. Just a tip, I had a gentle discussion with Ron a while ago regarding Hilary Mantel, we concurred on her erudite observations and grasp of reality. She promoted a concept which perhaps answers the point I am trying to make. The confusion which occurs in people in their attempt to fathom the difference between history and opinion is a permanent stumbling block. Think on it. By the way Ron, I agree on the title's destination not being the Grove.

  14. Yes its Ron

    Aug 21, 2017, 9:57 #103256

    I never saw all of it but in fairness, though it looked like a typical 'away at Stoke' match, they were a bit unlucky not to have got at least a point i thought. AFC seem psychologically on a loser before the start at Stoke as in deed they are at Utd. As for title challenges, the fans should harbour no illusions in that department in my view. Theres no title going to N7.

  15. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Aug 21, 2017, 9:52 #103254

    Badarse, Herbert is dead, no I don't believe it, he looked so well when I last saw him, when did this happen? Of course Huddersfield is not Arsenal, one team has a defence and a young manager who has a mountain to climb but more importantly one team is a proper local football club and not a marketing company.

  16. peter wain

    Aug 21, 2017, 9:45 #103253

    a very poor performance made worse by crazy team selection. Monreal is a good left back but not a centre half. Playing Bellerin as left back was stupid. As for Koslineac is it me or is he two stone overweight? Desperately need a quality centre half and a quality holding midfield player chances of getting wither is zero. Looks like a long had winter - catalyst for change indeed!!!!

  17. Badarse

    Aug 21, 2017, 9:34 #103252

    What ugly vitriol. Now to all the 'newbies' and older dementia sufferers Huddersfield are not Arsenal. They have been back in the First Division before,(though not the PL), years ago. We knocked them out of the League Cup S/F with two wins, 3-2 at Highbury and 3-1 away-there were no daft 'Huddersfield-Arsenal' clowns around on the North Bank that evening, or actually in existence, had there been they would have perhaps been turned upside down and had their hair set on fire-well it was a good match that night. Many tykes barely recognise Huddersfield as a real Yorkshire side and tease them over their proximity to Lancashire. Just for the unenlightened Herbert Chapman is dead. He cannot acknowledge any warped allusions to a previous club, nor to Arsenal, or to any of his magnificent achievements. Neither do we play at Highbury. So to the Terry Dactyls and Dino Sores, grow up and accept the present.

  18. The Man From UNCLE

    Aug 21, 2017, 9:13 #103251

    Seven Kings: do you remember the fanzine Echo Echo back in the late 1980s? They used to have a feature "Herb Gives It To You Straight". Used to crease me up. He'd have this shower sorted out in no time.

  19. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Aug 21, 2017, 9:08 #103250

    I am breaking my rule and I am going to Arsenal v Huddersfield this season, so I can chant "One Herbert Chapman there's only one Herbert Chapman" Hudd - Arsenal, 2 wins 4 goals none conceded, Herbert would be delighted.

  20. The Man From UNCLE

    Aug 21, 2017, 8:25 #103249

    After 20 minutes of the first half it was obvious a 1-0 defeat was on the cards. Next week's trip looks pretty frightening.

  21. mbg

    Aug 21, 2017, 1:13 #103248

    John F, yes and 53% had the gall to say/vote in the Survey (mostly AKB wengerite luvvies no doubt) that the wenger out protests affected the team and moral, Jesus H the biggest affect on team moral and stumbling block is TOF himself but a lot of us have known that for years anyway. we want wenger out.

  22. John F

    Aug 20, 2017, 22:28 #103246

    What is it in Wenger's DNA that makes him play players out of position.Could it be that 3 at the back was not his idea and he is subconsciously trying to scupper it.It was came about after a poor run of results and the pressure was building so he was unusually for him open to advice.There is no logical reason why he would leave 2 centre backs out and play two full back as Cb's and a right back as a left back.I fully expect him to declare that the experiment has not worked and return to a back four and that he was right all along.These sort of barmy decisions must affect the famed team spirit or will he blame the fans when confidence takes a nose dive.

  23. mbg

    Aug 20, 2017, 21:04 #103245

    Cheltenham, we're king of the crabs alright, with the biggest scratcher of the lot in charge. Roy, don't feel astounded their out there alright and don't feel sorry for them, they deserve wenger and all the embarrassments and humiliations (and a lot more on top) they get from him.

  24. mbg

    Aug 20, 2017, 20:25 #103244

    Well done Huddersfield Arsenal going well, keep it up. wenger out.

  25. Paulward

    Aug 20, 2017, 19:22 #103243

    Think he's scared to drop Ox as he doesn't want him to leave the club, but playing Bellerin on the left looked a hopeless compromise, and so it proved. Presumably Koscielny and Sanchez will return for Anfield, already looks like a make or break fixture in terms of this seasons PL campaign.I expect a heavy defeat and an immediate return to the toxic atmosphere that dogged the club post Xmas last season.

  26. TOOAW

    Aug 20, 2017, 18:04 #103242

    Upset is not the word. Feeling devistated. Gutted. Suicidal even. Bejesus..... Can it get much worse. How can I cope??? YYYEEEESSSSS. The mighty club down the road lose at Wembley AGAIN. To see ya to see ya nice. mbg. I'm not offended if you call me by my name. Maybe it's a paddy thing !!!!

  27. Cyril

    Aug 20, 2017, 17:54 #103241

    Can you imagine GG leaving Adams on the bench and swapping Dixon and winterburn. He probably wants to sabotage the new back 3 system. I was fuming in the 1st game at the defending in the 1st game at home. It might have been nice to watch on tv but it was terrible watching live if you analysed those goals. The club could be so great again but he has to go if he cannot play 2 tactical formations to the desired level.

  28. Roy

    Aug 20, 2017, 15:11 #103240

    Yes Kev, remember Jossys Giants well, and you are right, it appears that AW too is now into the realms of fantasy football as a last desperate throw of the dice. I think most would accept that we were slightly unfortunate to actually lose the game, but I am truly astounded that there can be anyone left who thinks that the spine of this team is good enough to challenge for the title. Eternal optimism is one thing, but I truly feel sorry for these fellow Gooners if they apply the same logic to their everyday lives. My worry is that by the time AW does call it a day, the mediocrity culture/comfort zone will have become so ingrained that we will have fallen even further behind. In fact, I'd put money on us not winning the title for at least another 5 years right now. Where was Holding yesterday? He may still be a bit raw, but has already demonstrated that he is good enough and is the one out and out defender who does actually fill me with confidence. Maybe we can try the Ox at centre half next week just to ensure that he leaves ?

  29. Exiled gooner in Pt

    Aug 20, 2017, 15:01 #103239

    Nice to see Walcott gone a run for 15 minutes just to justify his hundred grand a week. Welbeck might not score enough goals ( which was always the Mancs complaint about him) but at least he looks committed to the cause and contributes something but Walcott I just do not get!!! The old senile tw#t cant last 2 more years lets have him and the board out now.

  30. mbg

    Aug 20, 2017, 14:54 #103238

    Giroud best target man in the world, lol reaching the point of his hooter with his tongue maybe. You couldn't make it up. wenger out.

  31. Time for change

    Aug 20, 2017, 14:48 #103237

    "Balance? Look I have coached 30 years in football and (don't) know what balance is."

  32. mbg

    Aug 20, 2017, 14:41 #103236

    Jessies Giants (spelt different) nice one Kevin, but way way way to kind, past it old arrogant French asshole more apt, and to think one top wengerite had the gall to suggest I take a break, take a break from this ? you must be fooking joking, i'm fooking loving it, seeing this old arrogant egoistic dictator humiliated at every turn, long may it last right to the end, I can't wait for the Ropey Cup on Thursday nights too, seeing TOF plonk his skinny arse down in a dugout knowing he thinks it's beneath him and he just hates being there and even another humiliation thrown in for good measure. We want wenger out we want wenger out.

  33. KC38

    Aug 20, 2017, 14:25 #103235

    Another classic, we have 33 players, can't buy until we sell! So Wenger who is in charge of recruitment? Who buys all these joe average players? We either need quality additions or we don't, if we do, buy them and improve the squad, round up the ones you want to sell who you don't think cut the mustard and don't use them. Or you will end up not buying and then using players you don't rate, what a manager what a strategy, net spend 30 mill a big club? not under this owner and clown of a manager.

  34. Exiled gooner in Pt

    Aug 20, 2017, 14:17 #103234

    Team selection was obviously made from a junior gunners competition !!!! Pointless getting upset as Kev says we are the laughing stock of the league .The zip fiddler has only one thing on his mind and that is beating Ferguson record of premier league games in charge!! Shame the other statistics do not match. West Ham have signed the defensive midfielder that wanted to play for us and would of made a difference in the centre of the park. Come on Huddersfield Arsenal. Tired of saying it but Wenger and the board out...

  35. GoonerRon

    Aug 20, 2017, 12:31 #103232

    FFS can we play defenders in their positions to at least get some balance back. I really rate Monreal and he can be very effective on the left of a three but shouldn't be marshalling in the centre. I'd like to see a back three containing 3 natural CB's (Kos, Mert and Mustafi) and build from there. Whilst we didn't have as much incision as against Leicester a loss was undeserved - 2 penalties (fouls on Bellerin and Welbeck) not given and their keeper MoTM highlights this. Ultimately Lacazette was JUST offside so its churlish to berate the officials for getting it right.

  36. Redshirtwhitesleeves

    Aug 20, 2017, 11:44 #103231

    Agree with every word Kevin, it's groundhog season once again. What more can anyone say that we haven't all said over and over again these last 10 years? The club is rotten to its greedy, money grabbing core, with the triple headed cancer of Wenger, gazidis and kroenke slowly killing our once proud and beloved Arsenal

  37. Mathews

    Aug 20, 2017, 10:26 #103230

    Thanks Kev, looks like we are in for the same tosh this year too. Wenger getting his excuses ready and no intentions of getting any quality players on board sums up our future.

  38. KC38

    Aug 20, 2017, 9:46 #103229

    Kevin agree with most of your article. Two points still cant stop getting angry and I'm one who has pretty much stoped attending. Undecided on the Bournemouth game! One other point for so many attacking players we only had one genuine goalscorer this points is lost on many. Welbeck does not score enough,Ozil does not , Ramsey doesn't, and Xhaka us becoming another Wenger waste of money. This explains the missed chances.

  39. Moscowgooner

    Aug 20, 2017, 9:43 #103228

    As I've said during previous seasons, he won't leave until he's carried out in a box. Sad for all concerned. Gazidis is clearly terrified of him; Kroenke couldn't give him a toss - as long as cash keeps streaming in.

  40. Cheltenham Gunner

    Aug 20, 2017, 9:28 #103227

    Did we break the record for sideway passess in this game? Ozilwas guilty of many of them and apart from one surging run the game passed him by. The Ox at least put a shift in, as did Ramsay, although I would sell flog both in a heartbeat. Yes the defensive formation is interesting to say the least, can't wait to see Lacazette in goal! Still not all bad Butland is in my fantasy team!

  41. Kvltman

    Aug 20, 2017, 9:26 #103226

    Thank you Kevin. Agree with pretty much all of it. I allowed myself some optimism before the game yesterday. In the end it could have been a game from any of the last 6 or 7 years. The team selection was absolutely baffling. As you say, more results like this and it won't be long before the atmosphere becomes toxic again, if it hasn't already.