#FlashbackFriday – Arsenal in the League Cup: Part Two - 1980 to 1993

The Gunners’ involvement in the younger domestic cup reviewed over four parts this week and next in the build-up to the 2018 final



#FlashbackFriday – Arsenal in the League Cup: Part Two - 1980 to 1993

Rocky celebrates after the semi-final replay win at the Lane in 87


Arsenal's first League Cup tie of the 1980s was a draw against a team from Wales who during the early 1980s were a team on the up. In late August 1980 there would be a trip to South Wales to face John Toshack's Swansea City, then of the old Second Division. A goal for Frank Stapleton earned Arsenal a 1-1 draw in the first leg. At Highbury in the second leg, a John Hollins penalty as well as goals for Alan Sunderland and Steve Walford earned Arsenal a 3-1 win and progressed to the third round 4-2 on aggregate. This brought a third round tie away to Stockport County. At Edgeley Park, goals for John Hollins, Frank Stapleton and Alan Sunderland earned Arsenal a 3-1 victory.

Then came a trip to White Hart Lane in early November to face Spurs in the Fourth Round. In front of a crowd of 42,511, a goal for Ossie Ardiles meant that Arsenal crashed out of the tournament. In 1981/82, the tournament was now sponsored by the Milk Marketing Board and now known as the Milk Cup. In October 1981, the Gunners were drawn against Sheffield United – the first leg away at Bramall Lane. The Gunners suffered a 0-1 defeat. In the second leg at Highbury three weeks later, goals for Alan Sunderland and Willie Young in his final appearance for the Gunners meant a 2-0 victory and progressing to the next round with a 2-1 win on aggregate. Back at Highbury a fortnight later, in front of a crowd of 19,899 a Peter Nicholas goal gave Arsenal a 1-0 victory over Norwich City.

The fourth round brought a visit to Highbury from the Cup holders Liverpool on the first day of December. Bob Paisley's side at the end of 1981 were going through something of a mini-decline and actually sat mid-table. Making his debut that night for Arsenal would be Ray Hankin, who had moved from the NASL's Vancouver Whitecaps. The two sides went on to play out a 0-0 draw. One week later at Anfield, former Gunner Ray Kennedy made his final appearance for Liverpool before transferring to Swansea City. Arsenal held out the full ninety minutes at Anfield, however extra time goals for Kenny Dalglish, Terry McDermott and Craig Johnston earned Liverpool a 3-0 victory.

Five days later, Liverpool were required to fly to Tokyo to play Brazilian side Flamengo in the World Club Championship, where they were thumped 0-3. On returning to the UK however, the Red Machine picked up form and actually won back their League title. Along the way, they also retained the League Cup by defeating Spurs 3-1 in the final. In 1982/83, Arsenal would be drawn against Cardiff City in the Second round, with the first leg at Highbury. In front of a crowd of just 15,115, goals for Paul Davis and John Hollins meant a 2-1 victory for Arsenal. The second leg tie at Ninian Park saw goals for Paul Davis, Alan Sunderland and Tony Woodcock and a 3-1 victory for the Gunners (5-1 on aggregate).

Two weeks on, the Gunners would be drawn at away to Howard Kendall's Everton in the third round. Four days prior, the Toffees would be hammered 0-5 at home to Liverpool, with four goals from Ian Rush. As a result, only 13,089 bothered to turn out for the tie. In the event, goals for two teenagers - Gary Stevens of Everton and Stewart Robson of Arsenal – meant a 1-1 draw and a replay back at Arsenal at fortnight later. At Highbury for the replay, just 19,547 would be interested in turning out for the game. Those who did were treated to an Alan Sunderland hat-trick as Arsenal ran out 3-0 winners. One week later, Arsenal played Huddersfield in the fourth round. An Alan Sunderland penalty gave Arsenal a 1-0 win in front of 17,742.

Into the new year, Arsenal met Sheffield Wednesday at Highbury in the Quarter Finals. This time the attendance rose to 30,937, who witnessed a Tony Woodcock goal, which gave Arsenal a 1-0 victory and a two legged Semi Final against Man United. One day after Valentine's Day at Highbury, Arsenal met Ron Atkinson's side for the first leg. If Arsenal were buoyed by the fact that United had failed to win at Highbury for fifteen years, it would be long before that optimism would be punctured by a returning Frank Stapleton (who lest we forget took the same route to Old Trafford taken by Robin Van Persie and Alexis Sanchez in recent seasons).

Arsenal went four goals down, with Stapleton, Northern Irish teenage prodigy Norman Whiteside and two goals for Steve Coppell. Arsenal managed to pull two goals back from Peter Nicholas and Tony Woodcock, but still suffered a 2-4 defeat. Ahead of the second leg, Stapleton would speak to Thames News about the abuse received from the Highbury terraces that night. In the second leg at Old Trafford, a then mammoth 56,635 turned out for the tie, despite the nation being gripped by the Ken Barlow and Mike Baldwin love triangle with Ken's wife Dierdre (at half time, the Old Trafford scoreboard had actually decided to give Manc pride a boost by announcing that had chosen him over brash Cockney Mike).

Goals for Kevin Moran and Steve Coppell inflicted a 1-2 defeat on Arsenal, with the Gunners' response coming from Raphael Meade, with Man United progressing to Wembley with a 6-3 win on aggregate. Man United went on to suffer defeat to a Liverpool side who captured their third successive League Cup victory. Arsenal and United met again in another Semi Final a couple of months later. The Gunners again tasted defeat to United, who went on to bag only their second trophy win since their 1968 European Cup win. It would be one of two FA Cup wins for Frank Stapleton, doubling his Highbury trophy haul, but as this footage from 90s Sitcom 'Game On' would show, he'd still be remembered primarily as a former Arsenal player.

In 1983/84, in October Arsenal would be drawn against Plymouth Argyle in the Second round of the League Cup. A Graham Rix goal at Home Park earned a 1-1 draw for Arsenal. In the second leg at Highbury, an Alan Sunderland goal meant the Gunners progressed to the next round with a 2-1 victory on aggregate. In early November, Arsenal faced Spurs at White Hart Lane in the third round. A crowd of 48,200 turned out at the Lane, where goals for Charlie Nicholas and Tony Woodcock gave Arsenal a 2-1 victory while Spurs' goal came from a Glenn Hoddle penalty. After the game, Eamon Andrews would surprise Arsenal keeper (formerly of Spurs) with his big red book for his 'This is Your Life' episode.

Jennings had been brought to Highbury by Terry Neill, whose failure to follow up the FA Cup win in 1979 with further silverware left him under fire at Highbury by the time of Walsall's visit to Highbury for the League Cup fourth round tie. Making his debut for Arsenal would be Ian Allinson, while it would be the final appearance in an Arsenal shirt for Alan Sunderland. Though Stewart Robson would be on target, Arsenal crashed to a 1-2 defeat and a repeat of the famous Cup exit to Walsall of nearly half a century prior. The result left Terry Neill's position untenable and within weeks would face the sack as Arsenal boss.

Appointed in his place would be Don Howe. Such was the turn around that by the time of Arsenal's next appearance in the League Cup they would be situated around the top of the League table. In the second round, they'd be drawn against Bristol Rovers. Goals for Viv Anderson, Tony Woodcock and two for Charlie Nicholas meant a 4-0 victory. In the second leg two weeks later, a goal from Tommy Caton meant a 1-1 draw and the Gunners progressing with a 5-1 win on aggregate. In the third round on Halloween Night, top of the old First Division Arsenal would head to the Manor Ground to face the Robert Maxwell funded Oxford United who at the time topped the old Second Division.

This would be the first ever meeting between the two sides, as Oxford United had only entered the Football League in 1962. Highlights of the game would be covered by the BBC's 'Sportsnight'. Despite goals for Ian Allinson and Graham Rix, Arsenal crashed to a 2-3 defeat, with a goal from future Liverpool star John Aldridge who ended up stretched off after scoring Oxford's opening goal. It would be Arsenal's second defeat in a week after losing to West Ham in the League the previous Saturday. After a good start to the season, Arsenal finished the season in seventh place. Twelve months on, Arsenal faced Hereford in the Second round of the League Cup.

After the post-Heysel ban, the League Cup took on added importance as just one of three trophies available to win. After being held to a 0-0 draw at Edger Street, back at Highbury, in front of just 15,789 spectators, goals for Viv Anderson and Charlie Nicholas gave Arsenal a 2-1 victory. In the third round, they would be drawn away to a Man City side newly promoted back to the top flight at Maine Road. Only 18,279 turned out to view a 2-1 win for Arsenal courtesy of goals from Ian Allinson and Charlie Nicholas. In November, Arsenal faced Southampton at Highbury in the fourth round. Despite playing top tier opposition, only 18,244 came to Highbury to view proceedings . Those who did turn out however were only rewarded with a goalless draw.

The replay at the Dell a week later however saw Arsenal progress to the Quarter Finals with Martin Hayes's first goal for Arsenal (ten days after making his Arsenal debut), as well as Charlie Nicholas and Stewart Robson on target. The following January, Arsenal were drawn against Aston Villa away. Arsenal ended 1985 with an excellent run of form that saw impressive wins over Liverpool at Highbury and a 1-0 victory over run away table toppers Man United. Villa on the other hand were mired into a relegation battle just four years on from winning the European Cup. Injury to John Lukic meant that Rhys Wilmot made his debut in goal for the Gunners at the age of twenty four (despite having been at Highbury since 1979).

Arsenal took the lead with a goal from an in form Charlie Nicholas, led by a rather mad pitch invasion from a success starved Arsenal fan base sensing some long awaited glory. In the second half, a nineteen year old Niall Quinn came close to wrapping things up for the Gunners by hitting the bar. Aston Villa however equalised with a goal from Dean Glover, set up by Andy Gray. Most thought Arsenal were a shoo in for the replay back at Highbury. The 33,091 who turned out at Highbury however witnessed a 1-2 defeat courtesy of goals from Paul Birch and Allan Evans, while Paul Mariner would be on target for Arsenal.

A further defeat in the FA Cup to Luton Town that same month saw Arsenal look to replace Don Howe with Terry Venables. After these revelations came out in the national press, Don Howe resigned as Arsenal boss on Good Friday 1986. The Gunners replaced him with George Graham in May. By 1986, the tournament was now sponsored by retailer and football pools company Littlewoods. George's first League Cup tie as Arsenal boss would be against Herbert Chapman's old side Huddersfield Town, who were lined up to sign Martin Hayes. In front of a crowd of just 15,194 at Highbury, goals for Paul Davis and Niall Quinn gave Arsenal a 2-0 victory. Two weeks later in the second leg, Martin Hayes was on target in a 1-1 draw, which saw the Gunners progress with a 3-1 win on aggregate.

Hayes's form by now had saw him retained by George Graham and a first team regular, keeping the veteran Graham Rix out of the Arsenal side. The end of October 1986 saw Arsenal drawn against Man City at home. Hayes would be on target again from the penalty spot. Goals for Paul Davis and David Rocastle meant a 3-1 win for Arsenal. The fourth round saw a visit from a Charlton Athletic side back in the top flight, but evicted from their home at the Valley and playing at Crystal Palace's Selhurst Park. A goal for Niall Quinn and a Charlton own goal meant that the Gunners progressed to the Quarter Finals on the back of a 2-0 victory. That victory earned Arsenal a home tie against Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest in late January, while the Gunners held a surprise lead at the top of the old First Division.

Goals for Charlie Nicholas and Martin Hayes earned Arsenal a 2-0 victory in front of 38,617 and a mouth watering Semi Final with Tottenham Hotspur. The first leg would be played in early February at Highbury and covered live on ITV's 'The Big Match'. Such was the standing of the League Cup then, that the Semi Final would be played on a Sunday and a postponement of the scheduled League fixture. It would be a piece of history as the first ever live competitive fixture at Highbury shown on British TV. Also on his first outing as an analyst would be a young Alan Hansen. As Ian St. John explained, the game would be a commentator's nightmare as it contained two Thomases (Michael making his debut), two Allens and a Hoddle and a Waddle.

Arsenal though would be without David Rocastle who was sent off against Man United two weeks prior and replaced with Perry Groves, as well as an injured Viv Anderson who was replaced by Gus Caesar. A Clive Allen goal however meant a 0-1 first leg defeat for Arsenal. The second leg at White Hart Lane would again be another live Sunday fixture, this time on the BBC's 'Match of the Day'. Allen in his 'annus miribulus' season where he beat Jimmy Greaves's record for most goals scored in one season for Spurs. Famously, after trialling by two goals at half time, the Spurs PA system had announced how Spurs fans could go about apply for tickets for the final, which was used by George Graham to spur his side on in the second half.

Goals from Viv Anderson and Nialll Quinn brought Arsenal level, which took the game into extra time. The BBC had scheduled a repeat of 'The Muppets' straight after the game. As it went into extra time however, the BBC's Barry Davies had announced that the episode of the Muppets would be cancelled that week (there was me thinking I'd just watched them concede a two goal lead from a position of great arrogance!). With no further scoring in extra time, the tie went to a replay. Spurs won the toss for choice of venue and so three days later it was back to White Hart Lane. This time, it wouldn't be live, but shown on ITV's 'Midweek Sports Special' back to back with Terry Marsh's World Welterweight title winning fight from a tent in Basildon.


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comments

  1. Exeter Ex

    Feb 20, 2018, 15:24 #107248

    A Cornish - I was a little facetious to GR earlier who is an eminently reasonable contributor and has shown himself capable of shifting his stance. However it's subject close to my heart. I know a modern society can't get by on everyone just pedalling around but in a sane and rational world we'd have phased out the internal combustion engine years ago, and the private motor car within towns and cities quite evidently doesn't work. However our governments are beholden to vested interests and people's attitudes are deeply entrenched and they become accustomed to a certain lifestyle, so when you point out the damaging effects of that they become irritated and defensive. They just don't want to hear it. So on we go the same old way. It's a bit like Wenger at Arsenal really.

  2. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 20, 2018, 14:40 #107245

    markymark. Thanks for the reminder! Ah the good old days. Just looked through the ‘lost Badarse episodes’ archive. October 2015. ‘Three vital points at Watford’. Even I agreed with Baddie. Different times. CORNISH If you’ve got an A6 I think the Doom Bars are on you. Exeter. Very commendable re. the cycling. You’re lucky to be able to survive with just a bike. For some of us though, it’s not possible.

  3. markymark

    Feb 20, 2018, 13:48 #107243

    This car business reminds me of the great Badarse Ford Consul debate where I God forbid actually backed Badarse and Yes it’s Ron and Baddie were going on it hammer and tongs. Badarse of course then continued talking about himself for the next 5 seasons or at least about eggs and marmalade ( his euphemisms for testicles and the penis).

  4. Yes its Ron

    Feb 20, 2018, 11:00 #107239

    gr - Yes mate footballs become strangled by money and also by technology for technology's own sake has nt it for all those reasons as you say. The rule changes are all driven by TV s need for goal gluts and to eradicate defending. This VAR is seen by TV as another means of adding to the 'drama'. It masquerades as a means to 'get decisions right'. Football soon enough will be a an equivalent of what the IPL in cricket has become. Its close enough to it now isnt it. SKG has it right though. Lower league and non league is far more satisfying now. Im like Bard, i still follow Arsenal but in truth i couldn't give two hoots whether they win draw or lose really. Im not sure they deserve too much success to be honest and i mean that.

  5. Yes its Ron

    Feb 20, 2018, 10:43 #107238

    Hi Bard - i think Liverpool. still being a Club of its Community try to tread that tightrope between sacrificing the club to the modern day climate completely (such as Arsenal have done so willingly) and remaining a Club with substance, roots and meaning. Agree on Klopp and im sure his appointment there was part of the clubs thinking in trying to keep a link between fan and Club. He was seen a conduit to maintain it perhaps. He tries hard to do so doesn't he. I admire Liverpool for developing Anfield as they have, to try and keep a semblance of the clubs heritage and 'feel' about the place. They could easily have just sold its soul. As you say though, Klopps maybe doing a King Canute (so are the club perhaps) and trying to hold back the waves of the odious modern game that the owners might eventually have to submit to. Its different in Liverpool though. Their support sees the club as part of them still and they dont let it go easily. I dont think any other clubs fans would have reached the outcome they did over Hillsborough for eg. Its the scouse way. They get a bee in their bonnet about football or their club or anything really and they fight for it. London fans dont. They're passive and splintered. The clubs are remote by comparison. Football isnt as fundamental to the average London fan. I think only a London club could have done what Arsenal have done and got away with it for so long by their own fan base.

  6. GoonerRon

    Feb 20, 2018, 10:31 #107237

    @ SKG - God knows how this will go down but my wife has a Golf and I absolutely love it! @ Ron - you’re right in that the game isn’t that different but I do think the massive change, externally to football, has changed things on the pitch more than we might think. The rules are very different so these days big tackles aren’t as prevalent and these get the crowd going nearly as much as a goal. Young players getting too much too young means they haven’t had to clean boots whilst earning their chance which must impact their mindset to an extent. There’s so much data around that I suspect players may be more concerned about their passing % rather than trying the through ball. This, plus the obsession with possession has probably meant less ‘proper’ wingers as prioritising ‘controlling the midfield’ moves more players inside and less players taking their full back on. Distance covered is now reported which is typically used a barometer of effort, when in some scenarios staying still is the best option (case in point - Ozil half-heartedly closing the GK down on clearances). Most teams are a poor 45 minutes away from being booed off the pitch, most managers are 5 winless games away from the sack which has to impact the coaching staff, the players and undoubtedly the ability to blood youngsters. I’d like to think much of the above can be navigated around by the players for 90 minutes as the actual game on the pitch is still relatively simple, but the nuances of other impacts are far greater these days in my opinion.

  7. Exeter Ex

    Feb 20, 2018, 10:14 #107236

    GR - but up on my high horse I'm a bit further away from the exhaust pipe of your Audi A6.

  8. GoonerRon

    Feb 20, 2018, 10:12 #107235

    @ Exeter - yes I’ve been so desperate to proclaim on here about my car that I mentioned it for the first time yesterday after hundreds of posts over many years. Jeez, climb off your high horse.

  9. Bard

    Feb 20, 2018, 10:03 #107234

    Ron, excellent post mate. Couldn't agree more. The follow on problem is that without the passion and emotion then the sporting contest is worthless. Its just a circus. While Arsenal and other clubs are stockpiling the dosh, they haven't noticed that no one really gives a f*** any more. Even Old Trafford isn't immune to this trend. I think Klopp gets it but whether he can do anything about it is debatable.

  10. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Feb 20, 2018, 9:51 #107233

    Great post Gooner Ron: I am a VW Golf man myself, only 1.4 petrol though nothing too fast for me but oh so functional, ergonomically my perfect car. Back to football, last night's game was a 80's English style football club giving everything against the modern, 2018 pre packed, agent and TV run team, represented by the half a billion pound team - Manchester City. City being "too posh to push" could not find away to beat the real heartbeat of proper working man's football. I will keep saying it - there are some great lads down the divisions who are superbly coached and trained by young managers who still see passion as the first priority in any player however talented.

  11. Yes its Ron

    Feb 20, 2018, 9:46 #107232

    GR - Its a vastly different place now compared to 1987 granted. Football hasn't changed much though bar the TV saturation and the hype machine that drives it these days. Its a default position for people to say the games totally different from then to now. Its not really, not on the pitch anyway. Football had substance back then which today s sterilised, sanitised game will never replicate. Its a game played by mercenaries and followed by a large section of brainwashed lemmings who have attached themselves to football as an identity accessory to their lives, many of whom think they're entitled to follow a team that wins every match and groan like drains when they dont. The Club / player/ fan 'attachment' be it real or imagined that existed back in 87 which was the hub of nights like the 87 LC Semi has gone for good. Today's equivalent games are like netball matches by comparison.

  12. Exeter Ex

    Feb 20, 2018, 9:46 #107231

    GR - I think you wanted everyone to know you had a new Audi and found a way to sneak it in, so thought I'd respond on the topic you introduced. You did write 2 posts in a row on this non-Arsenal subject in trying to provoke a response from me as you thought you'd catch me out, but now you realise you won't you, understandably, want to drop it, ostensibly because it's non-Arsenal. I do agree it's an Arsenal forum and I've no wish to be the new Badarse, albeit one who could actually back up their arguments, so we'll leave it there then.

  13. GoonerRon

    Feb 20, 2018, 9:33 #107230

    @ Exeter - I wasn’t defensive at all, it just seemed odd of you to pick that particular part of my post out when I was only using the cars as a relevant analogy to the discussion. And, no, I dont insist on ‘getting into this’ - it’s an Arsenal forum last time I looked, not one where a posters green credentials are randomly criticised.

  14. Exeter Ex

    Feb 20, 2018, 9:07 #107229

    Ok, if you insist in getting into this... my mode of transport has two wheels and I'm the engine. I do realise I have a minority view and most still see cars as 'good things' and symbols of freedom, despite the daily evidence of our eyes and lungs otherwise, and the mountains of statistics and science stating otherwise. The responses above are classic car owners' defensiveness when faced with uncomfortable truths. Do you want to keep going with this? I have lots more I could go into, but it'll just make you even more defensive.

  15. GoonerRon

    Feb 20, 2018, 8:45 #107228

    @ Exeter - presumably you’re too busy riding horseback to work to confirm the zero emission status of your travel?

  16. GoonerRon

    Feb 19, 2018, 20:23 #107227

    @ Exeter - hardly boasting seeing as I said a Nova SR compared favourably to it. Given your sanctimonious response I presume every mode of transport you take is zero emission...

  17. CORNISH GOONER

    Feb 19, 2018, 19:57 #107226

    Jeez, Exeter! I am also an Audi A6 ( allroad) owner living very quietly in rural Cornwall, also a Green Party member, & my greyhounds think Dad's car is wonderful. imo it's you City boys that are the pollution kings - so don't you be having a go at GoonerRon who has excellent taste in motors!! With the horrific prospect of young Josh giving Arthur a new contract, a chap needs a good set of wheels to de-stress him.

  18. Exeter Ex

    Feb 19, 2018, 18:47 #107225

    GoonerRon - another thing that's changed is that in '87 you'd have got away with boasting about your new car and even got approving remarks. Nowadays someone like me will ask why in 2018 you're still buying such polluting vehicles from companies caught up in emissions scandals.

  19. GoonerRon

    Feb 19, 2018, 17:59 #107224

    Great hearing about people's memories of these games - I wasn't there but can almost hear the noises and smell the smells. Most of the comments comparing the game/players/kits/badges of today compared to previous eras would I imagine be echoed by most supporters of most top English clubs. The game of football as a whole is so different today driven by social media, money, PR, marketing, brand, reach, TV, globalization, content, coverage etc, all of which has helped breed a different dynamic to the one you guys enjoyed. The quest for big signings and immediate success has meant younger players just don't get the same chances as before and the chase for revenue to help fund the signings (which not only Arsenal is guilty of chasing) means three new kits every year (often with designs that aren't to the tastes of men our age) and re-branding of logos and image to refresh the clubs look which appeals to the marketeers by creating opportunities for content and new 'engagements' with fans. It doesn't sit particularly well with me I have to say, but it is simply a sign of the times we now live in. I do also wonder whether our memories of things in our younger years are slightly rose-tinted? I have great memories of my first family home which we left when I was 12, I've been back since and it was basically an iffy council estate. My first car (Vauxhall Nova SR, red with two panels faded to salmon pink) evokes all sorts of awesome memories that compare favourably to my current new Audi A6, but in reality the car itself wasn't all that great. We should cherish the Arsenal memories we have of times gone by, but I can't help but feel Arsenal '87 vs Arsenal 2018 is almost an unfair comparison due to football '87 v football 2018 being night and day and life on earth '87 v life on earth 2018 is almost incomparable in many aspects.

  20. mbg

    Feb 19, 2018, 17:37 #107223

    Exeter, yes and said with pure arrogance. Go now wenger you waster.

  21. Exeter Ex

    Feb 19, 2018, 17:18 #107222

    MAF - Wenger was asked how he'd be using the new signings at the time. "Just play the good players!" was his response. There's the plan.

  22. mbg

    Feb 19, 2018, 15:36 #107221

    Any resignation yet ? Go now wenger you embarrassment.

  23. Yes its Ron

    Feb 19, 2018, 15:26 #107220

    Smalling and Jones - oh dear. Sons of Silvester surely? In fact Silvester was better! MAF - Is there one? I thought you just threw them in there and trusted them to do their thing? Thats been the 'plan' this last 12 yrs anyway. Happy days.

  24. MAF

    Feb 19, 2018, 15:12 #107219

    I see a plan how chelsea want to use Giroud. Hold the ball up and bring in the runners coming Hazard Willian Pedro. similar to the use of Drogba. I see a plan at Liverpol. 3 highly mobile interchangeable Forwards, None of them really a centre Forward. I see a plan at City and at spurs. Now ive played alot of Football and watched even more. Can someone please tell me Arsenal's plan for Lacazette, Aubamayang, Ozil, Welbeck etc? Neither Lac or Aub can hold the ball up. Aub can run in behind when defences are high. what abt when they sit back ? anyway i am just trying to learn the tactical plan here

  25. peter wain

    Feb 19, 2018, 10:56 #107218

    the news that we are interested in Smalling and Jones for the centre of our defensive is most depressing. We seem to have given up competing in the transfer market and are accepting Manc cast offs.

  26. Moscowgooner

    Feb 19, 2018, 4:30 #107217

    mbg - we've just seen our club looted, prostituted for the greed of a few. Wenger stuffing his pockets and going through the motions; the Kroenke clan using Arsenal as collateral for their Ponzi schemes in the US. Everything about AFC now is plastic.: players, most of the fan base, stadium, badge, colours, owners.

  27. Goonhogday

    Feb 18, 2018, 19:11 #107216

    Great post. The old badge motto springs to mind, Victoria Concordia Cresent ... victory through harmony.

  28. mbg

    Feb 18, 2018, 17:06 #107215

    Just look at the joy on Rockys face, pure joy, real joy, from a true Arsenal man who truly loved the club, (and there were many like him)not like these false premadonnas and mercenaries today who kiss the badge when it's convenient but really couldn't care less, is there one player at Arsenal at the moment or, in the last nine ten years we could/would call a true kiss the badge Arsenal man like Rockey and others like him who we can affiliate with ?

  29. mbg

    Feb 18, 2018, 16:20 #107214

    Roy, great post, yes where has all that gone, i'll tell you mate, (not that we don't already know) it was all destroyed by an old arrogant egoistic manager (and I use the term manager lightly)who thought he was God and owned the club, so took it upon himself to turn it into just like himself, a second rate laughing stock with no ambition or traditions who hasn't a f*****g clue, and in the process destroying (or making sure to or a point of) the ambition, pride, traditions, etc, etc, etc, that it already had (thanks to others better than him along the way. And of course was allowed too, and aided and abeted by his wengerites. You'll never be forgiven wenger no matter what happens, it'll always be, wenger out.

  30. markymark

    Feb 18, 2018, 13:50 #107213

    Josh Kronke is spending 3 months in London to do a root and branch review of Arsenal. Something is afoot !

  31. markymark

    Feb 18, 2018, 11:19 #107212

    Arseneknewbest - I was holding off , not going to say a thing . Whack-a-Troll . F’ing excellent my friend . No frothing, no eggs, no Quislings, No OAP hooligan fantasy’s , no Mr Wenger slimefests... just a good old Arsenal chat across last 3 postings

  32. Arseneknewbest

    Feb 18, 2018, 9:36 #107211

    At the risk of tempting fate, isn't it pleasant to be able to return to talking about our club on here instead of playing whack-a-troll as one of their two heads pops above the parapet.

  33. TonyEvans

    Feb 18, 2018, 9:01 #107210

    mbg - yes the lengths I used to go to, if I wasn't at the match, to listen / watch, or find out the score. As you say just can't be bothered these days - I do still take some sort of interest but purely out of habit now, not really caring one way or the other. Great shame, but there we are.

  34. Moscowgooner

    Feb 18, 2018, 6:45 #107209

    The semis against Spurs were epic: I remember David Pleat in the programme for the replay having a go at the Spurs support for being outshouted all through the first game at the Lane - even when they were winning! And all through the replay it was the same: Arsenal noise rolling down from the Park Lane. Nothing from the Shelf. As a club we've lost our soul since then: losing a proper badge for a Disney cannon; losing our colours; losing our North Bank. The list just goes on and on.... Until Kroenke and Wenger are gone we have no chance to claim our identity back - but even then we would need to remodel the Emirates and bring the younger more vocal support back. Looking at the FA Cup attendances yesterday you can see how the game is now just about the 'EPL' - so this is a bigger problem than just AFC. But we do epitomize the problems of modern football. (The interview with 'I'm a true Gooner [via Molineux and White Heart Lane]'; Jezza Corbyn in the Guardian yesterday sums up just how far we've fallen.)

  35. Roy

    Feb 17, 2018, 21:16 #107208

    Great stuff Robert, it was bloody bedlam behind that goal when Rocky scored, I can tell you. Special memories of a fantastic time and the beginnings of a squad with a never say die attitude who had a real connection with us. For me it was Rocky and after that his mate Wrighty who epitomised the fans ideal of what it must have been like if you had been lucky enough to pull on the shirt yourself. Commitment and passion in spades that you could totally identify with. What was Rockys famous quote ? "Remember who you are, what you are, and who you represent". Where the hell has it all gone ? Wenger out.

  36. mbg

    Feb 17, 2018, 20:41 #107207

    John F, great post, yes used to be a great boxing fan myself, done a bit in my day, would be a heavy weight now, lol, F1, and snooker too, now ? couldn't be bothered with any of them, like football they're not the same and haven't been for years all sanitized for the worst football maybe not as bad, if, you have an ambitious owner, and especially a manager who wants to compete, we don't and haven't for years, instead an old man who would rather fight for scrapes, and third fourth best.

  37. John F

    Feb 17, 2018, 18:09 #107206

    True AKb and Chelsea nearly getting relegated to the old 3rd division no wonder they only cost a pound to buy.

  38. Arseneknewbest

    Feb 17, 2018, 17:23 #107205

    John F - ...and not to forget, Manure and the spuds being relegated in the 70s. Oh, and superstars on the telly!

  39. John F

    Feb 17, 2018, 16:42 #107204

    Although I do not like getting older I do not regret the times I was born into,my generation in terms of sport really did have the best.Great crowd atmospheres at football,live test cricket matches on the BBC with the 1981 Ashes series being the highlight and great Boxing fights witnessing the end of the Ali era and watching in the pub the Eubank,Watson,Benn,Bomber Graham,Finnigan,Minter,Collins,and many more fights even Tyson and with Harry commentating.Coe/Ovett rivalry.Sport especially football and Boxing will never be the same ,we're lucky witnessing what we did and the music too.

  40. mbg

    Feb 17, 2018, 14:20 #107203

    Tony Evans, I used to love listening to the games on the radio way back then when I had to, and that was often, now ? goodness what it would it is like as you can hardly watch them on TV.

  41. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Feb 17, 2018, 11:57 #107201

    My memory of those games with the Spuds was that we never played that well - that was to come later, but we just would not give up and that is all I have ever wanted from an Arsenal team. Rocky going over to the fans at the end of the semi replay just speaks volumes of what we had and of course so sadly what we lost.

  42. Hi Berry

    Feb 17, 2018, 9:57 #107200

    I remember coming away from that first leg at Highbury and the Spurs' fans were full of it....at half-time in the second leg they were the same but what they didn't count on was the sheer bloody-mindedness and fight to the death spirit of that remarkable team. 'Mental strength' is just a soundbite for the current manager...that team defined it in those semi-final matches and the final that followed.

  43. TonyEvans

    Feb 17, 2018, 9:04 #107199

    Agree with John F - the atmosphere at the Villa game was incredible. I was reduced to the car radio for the 2-1 at the Lane, and can only imagine what it must have been like - pure magic. As usual all these great memories make me yearn for how things used to be - warts and all.

  44. markymark

    Feb 16, 2018, 23:41 #107198

    I managed to see all 3 of them and that was on the mighty salary of £27.50 on the YTS. Last game I was on the Shelf as had to pick up a Spurs ticket off a tour . Don’t know whether it was just youthful confidence but I just knew we’d win even when Allen was being all cocky at Highbury . Weren’t Chas and Dave total ****!

  45. mbg

    Feb 16, 2018, 23:35 #107197

    Ron, Arseneknewbest, spot on, there's supporters now who wouldn't even recognise that shirt, and ask the question when did we wear that shirt ? thinking it was under wenger, Sad or what, and certainly wouldn't know who the man wearing it is/was, And of course others who should but don't because they've bought so much into wengers bulls**t that they think they're disrespecting him, by coming on to these two excellent treads, and would rather come on and get all excited over a bore fest regulation win against third rate oyster pickers who none of us would have been surprised if we'd lost to. Sad. wenger out now.

  46. John F

    Feb 16, 2018, 19:38 #107195

    Great memories Rob I attended quite a few of the games mentioned.The ones that stick out for me are the Spurs away ties just for the joy of beating them.Walsall at home the crowd really turned against Neal that night.I really cannot see that happening now as back in the day losing to a lower league team was viewed as a disaster now it is shrugged off.Villa away was amazing for the massive away support that night.We had one end and quite a few down one side,I wasn't surprised at the pitch invasion with that many Gooners turning up I just felt it was going to happen,I remember similar at Coventry. You can still get the odd game with a good atmosphere I went to Bolton away the season before they went down from the Prem and I have to say the noise created by the Arsenal and Bolton fans made my ears ring reminded me of the old days.

  47. mbg

    Feb 16, 2018, 19:23 #107194

    Arseneknewbest, sounds like you could write quite a few of those recollections yourself, and others too, it would be great to read them, they must never be forgotten or allowed to be forgotten, or air brushed out of history.

  48. Arseneknewbest

    Feb 16, 2018, 17:44 #107189

    Hi Ron. Know what you mean mate. I had my jersey for that season and the away one which was a beautiful navy blue and yellow job mounted in a frame. Simple designs in colours that we're meant to play in. I don't think they've been bettered since to be honest (although last night's black and pink number runs them close.....) They took pride of place for years in the living room of my N5 chateau til that kind of thing became a bit passe. I still look at them though and they bring back some terrific gg era memories. I think the kids team that I coach will have their game postponed tomorrow so a trip to Haverfordwest county of the Welsh feeder leagues beckons. Up the bluebirds!Have a good weekend too.

  49. Arseneknewbest

    Feb 16, 2018, 17:34 #107188

    Great report Robert. Reading your stuff from this pre-wengo era is always a huge pleasure. I was living and working in Ethiopia of all places when the 3 game spudathon took place in 87. No world service, no internet and reliant on week old newspapers. The sacrifices I went to in the name of Thatcher'a government...Wasn't home for the final either but did witness the fall of Caesar the following year much to my chagrin. For the third game where the venue was decided by coin toss, does anyone know many tickets we were allocated. Assuming it was half, it must've felt like 1971 in there. Sorry just being a bit of an anorak but it's been great reading some your recollections of those games which I often rewatch on YouTube.

  50. mbg

    Feb 16, 2018, 17:15 #107187

    MAF, bould open his mouth ? Three pieces of silver mate, something that shouldn't/wont be forgotten in a hurry either.

  51. Yes its Ron

    Feb 16, 2018, 16:48 #107186

    One last comment guys - check that kit out that Rockys wearing. A proper Arsenal kit, one that still reflected what the majesty, standing and class of the Club then was. For the most part its gone now. I agree totally with MAF in saying that Arsenal more than any other club have dismissed their history, heritage and past more so than any other. A lot more so. All sacrificed on the alter of greed and cash, the fans having been told to like or lump it. In mentioning it the other day though, i truly hope that other Clubs learn from Arsenal how not to do it as they seek 'progress' and new stadia themselves. If they learn, Arsenals folly and disregard for its fans wont have been wasted. Arsenals transition from the old to the new has in my view been a disaster (not financially of course), not only for the fans but for football. AFC were a flagship for the the game here when at Highbury. No longer. Who would want their 'values'? Wenger undoubtedly as he says as much, though his mention of values is a soundbite to what he understands Arsenals past to be, designed to gather himself a bit of credibility in a difficult time for him. He fails to hit the mark though for me. People are still buying it though. They're welcome to it. On that note have a great week end lads.

  52. Gaz

    Feb 16, 2018, 15:28 #107184

    Sadly the newer generation of fans will never either experience the likes of 1987 or understand just how much bigger and important the League cup was back then. It was a huge competition to win and dwarfs both domestic cup competitions of today. Was lucky enough to be at all three games versus spurs in 87 and that replay was simply one of the best nights of my life. Get goose bumps just thinking about Rocky's winner! No polite clapping/cheering in-between selfies that night! Just pure unadulterated chaotic celebrations! Just magic!

  53. MAF

    Feb 16, 2018, 15:16 #107183

    i think Arsenal has parted with it's past more than any other Club has. West Ham fans prob feeling a bit similar right now. Wenger being a Euro, couldnt giv a toss abt the past, didnt want to tap into it + use it as energy. a mistake in my view. I do wonder what Steve Bould really thinks. he was in the thick of that very tough Arsenal Team under Graham with ist Military discipline. how come he hasnt punched wenger yet?

  54. Bard

    Feb 16, 2018, 14:11 #107182

    Great stuff as always Robert. You should think about publishing all these historical posts. As many have noted, its a different game now, there is a disconnect between the fans and the teams. For most fans of a certain vintage, their own history is interwoven with the fortunes of the club good or bad but nowadays we aren't so much fans as consumers. The players are mostly passing through and couldn't careless about its history or the fans who support them.

  55. Yes its Ron

    Feb 16, 2018, 13:02 #107180

    maf - it meant more then didn't it so League Cup nights like that probably wont return. Look at that crowd scene. Sheer fervour and joy. The LC now is just an aside for not just the so called top 6, but all of them. None of this 'oh its only the LC' back then, weaker teams etc etc. Crying shame. The PL can all its money back for me and the TV can disappear too if it meant giving football its meaning and perspective back. Yes, many off the pitch improvements have been made but the real cost to football cannot be measured in just money terms as i see it. I d bet that if a poll was ran by the all of those PL Clubs suggesting an option to withdraw from the LC, almost all would opt to do so. Probably the FAC too! The fans have been f----d over big time this last 25 years.

  56. The Man From UNCLE

    Feb 16, 2018, 13:02 #107179

    Was there at WHL for the 87 replay. Unbelievable atmosphere and perhaps the greatest night of my life up to that point. Catch the game on Youtube if you haven't already.

  57. MAF

    Feb 16, 2018, 12:29 #107178

    I was at the 87 game @ WHL in the seats to the right of the Park Lane. we went 1-0 down & lots of cocky spurs fans all around us. But this Team was never say die right thru it and low and behold delivered by the great Rocky. One of those Grand memories where you say 'I was there'. I hope all Younger Arsenal fans will have These Special days as some point

  58. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Feb 16, 2018, 11:25 #107175

    Good post Ron, yep you could feel the improvement in the team, week by week, and as you say a great team spirit coupled with some pretty hard nosed hombres wearing that red shirt. Away from home was always great day out and you did feel the players appreciated the "Gooners" input.

  59. Yes its Ron

    Feb 16, 2018, 10:50 #107173

    The games v the spuds in 87 cant ever be forgotten. We were on our way then heading towards the later glory of 89 and 91. Great days. Great players, Great spirit. great mental strength. great support and fabulous camaraderie and connection between fans and team. All gone now. Lost forever. I truly feel sorry for the modern young fan as they ll never have any of that in today's sanitised money ridden game played by mercenaries with no affiliation or affection for the clubs.