Everything not all rosy in PremierLeagueLand

Reflections on the crowds at the Emirates and the Olympic Stadium last weekend



Everything not all rosy in PremierLeagueLand

Some modern day season ticket holders have better things to do


Football has long been called the people's game, mainly because of its immense popularity globally and its original roots in working class, mainly male culture. This would not be the case for, say, cricket, rugby union or rowing. In countless countries in all continents on the planet, the followers of this sport are fanatical. Yet it is in England, where the sport was invented, that the numbers of those paying to watch live games blow all other countries out of the water, to the extent that the English second tier attracts more fans than all other European leagues apart from Germany's Bundesliga.

And yet those watching Arsenal's match against Watford on TV last week will perhaps have been surprised by the multitude of empty seats on view. How can the official attendance state that upwards of 59,000 fans turned up when the physical evidence is so blatantly contradictory? One TV pundit, reflecting on Arsenal's recent woes and the inevitable question of the future of manager Arsene Wenger mused that "all those empty seats might have an effect on the owner".

In the words of Delboy Trotter, "au contraire, Rodders". Why should owner Stan Kroenke worry about empty seats which have already been paid for? Some long-standing Gunners fans may have swelled the ranks of absentees but in my circle of friends those who have been season-ticket holders for years do tend to go to all matches, and if they don't they try to pass tickets on to friends. This is often not the case for relative newcomers and certainly not for the thousands of season tickets owned corporately, in the broadest sense. However the sad truth is that the working-class fans who have been priced out of the stadium would be 10 times more likely to fill those empty seats than those with disposable cash who have taken their places in the ground, or, increasingly, not in the ground.

And then there's West Ham. On the same weekend, a few miles from Holloway, there were pretty shabby scenes flashed around the world of what appeared to be Hammers fans invading the pitch and even involved in scuffles with their own players. There are many reasons for the fans' malaise but the uniquely cack-handed and possibly corrupt way (allegedly) the stadium came to house a team whose quaint former home engendered a fearsome atmosphere and lashings of nostalgia is at the heart of the problem. A despised board, a pitch miles away from the punters and a soulless, vacuous stadium all play their part too.

Yet in both instances the "people" who once proudly owned their game have been at the centre of attention, in East London by totally failing to manage a drinking session in a brewery, and in North London by staying at home.

Now here's the thing. Manchester United have the highest number of season ticket holders in England, at 55,000. Not surprisingly, Arsenal, with 45,000, are third. Guess who weigh in second with 50,000? No, not Man City. Not Liverpool. Not Chelsea. It's West Ham. Now whatever you say about their board, they have tried hard to offer innovative deals for pensioners, kids and families. And their income from season ticket sales is thus far less than Kroenke gets at the Emirates. But despite its continuing location as a club in London's east end, West Ham FC has long drawn its core support, not from Shoreditch, Stratford and Hoxton, but from Benfleet, Southend and Grays in Essex. And whereas AFC pulled in their weekly customers from the Caledonian Road, Finsbury Park and Hoxton when it was a really tough neighbourhood, they now come from all points and areas, from Hemel Hempstead to Tunbridge Wells and from Esher to Bergen.

The spectre of hooliganism, if not completely defunct, has greatly diminished in the Premier League, the obscene cash cow that never shies away from calling itself the best league in the world. Yet greedy agents and players are trying the patience of long-suffering fans. Greedy owners are too often out of touch with supporters. And greedy TV giants completely take fans for granted with cynical scheduling continually punishing away fans for their loyalty. A European super league awaits for sure. It's only a matter of time. World Cups have been handed to Russia and Qatar for God's sake. What was the point of getting rid of Blatter? Still being a manager isn't that bad. Once you're on that merry-go-round, baby, you earn loads of dosh, the sooner the sacking into your lucrative deal the better.

Harsh? On a nondescript weekend in March 2018 in London two matches took place which will be forgotten in no time. Or could it just be the first sign that the rampant runaway train of private TV-fuelled and uncontrolled inflation with total disregard for the paying customers is just showing a crack or two? You may say I'm a dreamer and I am almost certainly barking up the wrong money tree. But, hey, wouldn't it be nice if in 5, 10 or 15 years time when the people regain control of their game someone would say; "You know what, it all started in March 2018"? Nah, no chance. I'm off to look up nerve agents on the internet.


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45
comments

  1. Badarse

    Mar 16, 2018, 13:27 #108025

    Yes Nark, I admit that I am Babu.

  2. markymark

    Mar 16, 2018, 11:59 #108014

    Babu - Well, well , well . That’s certainly an interesting posting! Would the Reverend Brian Badarse care to comment ? Please put it in simple words Brian as some of us (apparently me) are a little dim.

  3. Babu

    Mar 16, 2018, 10:04 #108010

    Good Morning Badarse. How are you today Jeff? How's your wife, Frankie? What's the weather like in Lytham St. Annes? Funny how you're now trolling here being Pro-Wenger. Remember on the Steve Gleiber Forum you were trolling being Anti-Wenger? From about 2008 onwards. Do you remember how you wanted to be Top Dog on the Forum, but you were just too stupid. You wanted to fill our lives with your wonderful insights, enthrall us with your posting skills, amaze us with your literary brilliance?? Sadly you are just too stupid. STUPID. Remember when you entered the Premier League Tipping Competition in 2008? And then, when you weren't winning, rambled on for weeks about that you didn't really want to win, and if you had wanted to win you could have, but you were out one weekend, and you tried to go for risky tips, and if you'd just gone for the safe bets you would have won the competition, but you didn't want to win it anyway? Never answering a question, and then posting loads of pictures of bull poo? Remember? Oh, the library of "bull faeces" pictures we had to look at. Memories, eh Cannon? You don't remember? This is 2008. The same time that Deja Vu "hacked" your photobucket account and posted that picture of you, a sad, old, very short git in a duffel-coat? Oh, how we laughed. Remember the last Arsenal match you went to...away to Blackburn in Jens last game at the time? Just down the road from you, Blackburn, isn't it? You little scruffy herbert. Well, it's great to bump into you again, and I look forward to plenty more chats like this in the next few months, seeing as you came here to breathe new life into this place. Yes, you are certainly a breath of air here. Not fresh though, more a slight hint of bulls droppings.

  4. markymark

    Mar 16, 2018, 9:37 #108009

    Peter Wain - well we will see, not sure if an actual extension is on the cards. Amongst all the euthoria from the Wenger Boyz last night were a near miss from AC in the first few minutes and a blatant dive for our penalty . I think Gattuso will also be seething at his defender who stupidly put his arm in a bent position around Welbeck . The angle of the ball should have registered with the defender and arms should have been either at his side or in the air clearly away from Welbeck. Oddly naive from the Italian outfit. I can’t see Athletico being so accommodating . Isn’t it 23/6 in favour of Spanish teams to British in head to heads

  5. peter wain

    Mar 16, 2018, 8:34 #108008

    when yo do not provide good entertainment people choose not to go. I think we have every right to not go when the club shows little ambition and no decent investment in the first team squad. A Wenger contract extension is looking likely and a maximum of two/three players in the transfer window.

  6. markymark

    Mar 16, 2018, 6:30 #108007

    It could certainly cope very well without the little squeak above .

  7. TOOAW

    Mar 15, 2018, 22:00 #108006

    There you have it. Nark disappears for half a second and he believes that O.G. can't cope without his ego. Opinionated tw at that he is..... Meanwhile. The Arsenal win and march on in Europe. Well done Arsene. Give credit where credit is due.

  8. mbg

    Mar 15, 2018, 19:52 #108005

    yarrgee,ou forgot to include Arsenal in the brands, hopefully by the time it comes round we'll be one of the big six with a proper manager. wenger out tonight.

  9. markymark

    Mar 15, 2018, 19:29 #108004

    Oh dear Baddie I pop away from the forum for a few hours and see you at your worst . Now dare I ask the question? are you to dim to explain it? Because please be my guest . Ron has been very helpful in perhaps suggesting you didn’t mean Arsenal were going to the wall. I can feel the stress ,Froth even, as your soufflé collapses. You mutter “I cannot admit I’m wrong , I cannot admit I’m wrong. I’m quietly enjoying your discomfort though of course you’ll never admit it.

  10. CORNISH GOONER

    Mar 15, 2018, 19:16 #108003

    A lot of interesting stuff on here but I like to keep things to the here & now rather than speculating on the future ( which as far as the UK's prospects & influence post Brexit is concerned are likely to suffer a decline & that will impact on the attractiveness of our footie market imo.). Marky made a straight forward comment that the arrival of a Max Allegri would have an immediate impact on attendances & I totally agree. Most of us believe that a rebuild & modernisation of AFC is not a short term project but I'd vote for that any day rather than another Houdini job in the Europa so that the status quo can stagger on for another year. Mourinho is now looking "past it" so how can an arrogant 68 year old hope to turn back the clock?

  11. arrgee

    Mar 15, 2018, 18:32 #108002

    Bard - Whether or not the product is that good is not the point with the Premier League it is the marketing that is outstanding. Having worked in the Middle East with a number of people from the Far East, pretty much everyone followed an English team. Similar in Ireland. When I wprked in Dublin I asked if anyone was interested in seeing St. Patrick's and was laughed at! It was as if they didn't exist. None of the other leagues have that marketing except the Champions League. Arsenal could sell tickets at average $100 in USA for the occasional Premier League game. Kronke does that for his NFL team https://www.ticketcity.com/los-angeles-rams-tickets.html

  12. arrgee

    Mar 15, 2018, 18:20 #108001

    Yes its Ron - The foreign owners are buying up all the clubs for some outsourcing in the future. Why restrict the audience to 50 million living in England when there are 6 billion out there wanting a piece of the action. I suspect if there ever is a European League it will originate from the Premier League. The bix six will replace the small 14 with global brands like Celtic, Rangers, Ajax, Benfica, PSG, Barca, Bayern, Real Madrid et al. I don't believe Qatar will build all those football stadiums just for the World Cup. Give it 10 years and the concept of a home game will be meaningless.

  13. Badarse

    Mar 15, 2018, 17:56 #108000

    I always thought the Euro Super League a possibility, a horrible aspect to consider though. Clubs have moved far enough away from their cores, any further and they will disappear as the entities we perceive them as. Yuxit has dampened my distant fears of the likelihood, but everything is on the edge of a melting pot nowadays, so who knows what tomorrow will bring, apart from fish on many plates...whereas we on the OG shall have eggs.

  14. Bard

    Mar 15, 2018, 17:50 #107999

    Some terrific and thoughtful posts. I agree with arrgee a Euro super league must be on there cards at some point in the near future. I think most of us agree that football sold its soul to the devil a long while ago. The problem though is that in the prem the product doesn't match the cost or justify the hype. Eventually people will realise they have been sold a pup and will vote with their feet I suspect. The last Arsenal game I saw that could be classed as top draw was when we beat City about 2 years ago. There have been patches of excellence but by and large its been dross.

  15. Yes its Ron

    Mar 15, 2018, 17:23 #107998

    arrgee - thats perceptive matey. I agree fully with you there. i think thats coming for sure. I think a euro lge might be its forerunner though. Quite how it ll all develop and pan out is beyond my thinking but yr thought pattern on it is pretty exact i think.

  16. Exeter Ex

    Mar 15, 2018, 17:14 #107997

    Sadarse, I'll let you into a secret. The reason I ask you 'demanding' questions is to expose you. I know you won't be able to give a straight answer to a straight question. I know you can't back up your claims. I know you'll excuse this as being due to the questioner being not bright enough to understand if you did. You expose yourself as singularly unable to back up any points you make, and as horribly arrogant and pompous in this way each time. You've just done it again, 'vehemently' defending your terrible 'too dim' comments. You clearly are profoundly lacking in self-awareness, no idea of how awful this makes you look. That is my intention when I ask you these questions, and you fall for it every single time.

  17. Badarse

    Mar 15, 2018, 16:58 #107996

    Corny, I take you at your word; the thumbprint can easily allude to an occasional post where you snipe, non? Others with a deranged outlook insist on an answer, nay demand one, then reject in a dismissive, pompous and arrogant style. Then defends the 'usage'. No one tells me who or when to respond. As previously stated I may make errors in those I befriend but know who I do not want to interact with. As for the 'too dim' comments I defend those vehemently. Not perhaps as nice as I would wish however as experience has taught me that as certain individuals do not earn respect then they get none. If you view your life by looking backwards many errors appear on the horizon, as you move towards the said horizon you see other relevant factors which influenced that decision. The first decision was valid for the corporate body, AFC, that envisaged a turning point. Not a nice turning point but I do understand the mentality which executed the strategy. The collapse of the financial world and ensuing factors changed everything. Ron, I raise a marmalade sarnie to you for your diplomacy.

  18. arrgee

    Mar 15, 2018, 16:55 #107995

    "West Ham FC has long drawn its core support, not from Shoreditch, Stratford and Hoxton..." It never did! People in Shoreditch and Hoxton were closer to Arsenal (2 miles away) and Spurs was a bus ride away. And from Stratford, Spurs is a pretty easy train journey. In fact when I moved out to E11 (from E8 via E5) it was surprising how many kids at my son's school were Spurs fans (thanks to their dads).

  19. arrgee

    Mar 15, 2018, 16:40 #107994

    "A European super league awaits for sure" - There is no need for one as the Premier League will soon be exported. If Arsenal are only getting 30,000 through the door in north London, then why not play a few games in North America or the Middle East or the Far East where 60,000 will turn up and buy merchandise like crazy. The whole she-bang could travel though diffrent geographies for the whole season. Summer in Australia, Winter in Qatar, Spring in USA and Autumn in China. Arsenal Stadium will be used for visiting NFL teams and filled up by gridiron fans.

  20. A Cornish Gooner

    Mar 15, 2018, 16:02 #107993

    Ron. Eleven out of ten for perception. You seem to know more about what Badarse is thinking than Badarse does. He posted: ‘(It) was a simple choice of change or go to the wall’. How can that be seen as ‘just word usage’? What did he also mean by the ‘word usage’ “you are too dim to grasp the fundamental point”? Badarse. It’s a bit rich for you coming on here having a go at somebody “who only ever posts occasionally with repetitive and empty … drivel”. By the way, ‘Brian’ I’m not Wrinkly Voyeur.

  21. Moscowgooner

    Mar 15, 2018, 13:36 #107992

    Hate to agree with Bad A on anything but he has a point... I think Arsenal as a successful top flight London club could pull in the same sort of numbers as Bayern or Real, ie 70 K plus. Way beyond what an all seater Highbury could accommodate. We're going through a slump at the moment, with huge dissatisfaction with Wenger and Kroenke, but still 35 K turn up to watch a largely meaningless game with Watford. The real problems centre around the design of the Emirates: rip out the boxes and the Club Level; move seats nearer to the pitch and create one single tier stand at the North Bank. And of course scrap the existing pricing policies, designed to price out the real hard core support - but that was happening at Highbury long before the move.

  22. Exeter Ex

    Mar 15, 2018, 10:58 #107991

    Ron - if that's what Badarse means then why doesn't he say so? I think you're providing him with a get out clause he hasn't thought of himself. Instead we get: "you are too dim to grasp the fundamental point so an explanation beyond is futile" How convenient! it's the same thing over and over. 1. Badarse makes some claim e.g. "Without the stadium move AFC would've gone to the wall". 2. Others disagree, and give reasons why. 3. As he is unable expound further, cannot develop his point, Badarse states that others are too dim to understand, even that they're mentally ill. 4. Cornered by his monstrous arrogance, in his desperation Badarse tries to distract and deflect with 'whataboutery' - "But so-and-so said this, why don't you have a go at them? 5. It gets too much for him, so Badarse stops commenting for a while, returning when he hopefully assesses the previous episode has been forgotten, then repeats the cycle again. It's the same old parlour trick over and over, that was seen through by all (excepting the very slow Toady) a long, long time ago: Making a virtue of an inability to develop a point, the irony of claiming intellect superiority in the failure to do so. It's so transparent. He's a standing joke, destined to inadvertently don the clown's costume again and again until the day Wenger finally leaves and he therefore loses interest.

  23. Yes its Ron

    Mar 15, 2018, 10:52 #107990

    Morning lads. We have here again two posters who (at their best) are both excellent and poignant. Baddies post re change or go to the wall is a good post in my view and i think the expression of going to the wall is just word usage and not meant to be taken literally. Am i right Baddie lad? Ex make a great post too with the other angle he uses. I think in essence Arsenal s changes, in fairness to them were done at a time when it looked for them that the change to become solely cash driven and corporatised was the only way forward PLUS Arsenal in their foolishness didnt set up the best deals with sponsors etc. That much is known now. They were arrogant and thought they could do the Highbury thing themselves by acting as the Developer and ignored better advice to simply sell the land and allow developers to get on with it. There was an element of panic in the ranks there trying to develop the club and keep it competitive while at the same time developing Highbury. As it turned out they sort of only half succeeded in doing both instead of totally succeeding in developing the new Arsenal FC. Wengers coaching remit was changed to suit both and thus his old ways were aborted as he bought into the new ways. He had too to stay on there. I think what we ve learned since is that PL clubs can develop while still keeping the main focus on the football. Utd manage it and keep a sort of community club feel. Liverpool are achieving it for sure and other clubs will too. Its possible to do but at a slower pace so s to carry the fans with them. Arsenal went for broke as they were under pressure to pay off the cost of that appallingly designed morgue of stadium. The other clubs kept their stadia and their roots. Hindsight has seen these clubs learn from Arsenals errors. Arsenal were in many ways a guinea pig and their rush for growth hasnt worked and i cant see how they can turn the clock back to win over the alienated fan base without a new owner and new regime totally, Coach, players and all. It could only have happened in London in my view, the great home of the dispassionate football fans, the epicentre of greed and corruption and generally whose less than driven approach to football has allowed Arsenal to do what theyve done and meant that the fans slowly got wise to it,but far too late. I couldnt wish ill will on Arsenal having been a supporter man and boy but theres a case to say that they really dont deserve to succeed either on the pitch or off it.

  24. Exeter Ex

    Mar 15, 2018, 9:47 #107989

    Badarse's modus operandi on here is well worn. Cannot answer a straight question (e.g. what would you like to see Wenger do) with a straight answer, then claims his lack of clarity is the result of a superior intellect, the rest of us are too dim to grasp his stunning insights, and that it is somehow morally wrong and shows some kind of mental disability on the part of the questioner to ask that straightforward question. The truth is that there's nothing there but obfuscation and deflection. He does not answer straight questions because he cannot back up the answer he would give if he did. For instance, he knows there's no justification for Wenger to go on, but that's what he'd like to see happen anyway, just because he loves him. There really is nothing there, no substance or reasoning, behind the verbosity.

  25. Badarse

    Mar 15, 2018, 9:21 #107988

    Good morning eggheads. Nark you are too dim to grasp the fundamental point so an explanation beyond is futile, sorry you are a lost cause, oh and I liked the insertion of false news within your post. In a similar vein the Eggman charging ahead, demanding debate and vilification whenever it is there is working to his own 'glitchy' agenda. Also a lost cause. Irony abounds. The supposed AKB(and we all know what the B stands for, duplicitous), screams Stalinist garbage from the roof tops then cuddles up to the right wing zealot who is Alsace. No one calls out the Wrinkly Voyeur who only ever posts occasionally with repetitive and empty racist French drivel. It has the Corny old git's thumbprint, probably using a library computer somewhere. Yet no one calls him out? Wholesale double standards from the WOR. Enjoy your cloistered enclaves my little souffles.

  26. markymark

    Mar 15, 2018, 7:49 #107987

    Badarse - you recently said that as a Very Senior Buying Assistant Grade 3. You learnt not to throw money at s problem . Yet in your posting 113799 you seem to be suggesting throwing money at the perceived problem of stadium capacity was the answer . You’ve gone a bit Kushner/Trump realtor on us. Well with benefit of hindsight Highbury could have been piece meal developed . TV money would have still rolled in. Concentrated on needed management overhaul . I suspect we’d still be very much around not gone to the wall as you dramatically say

  27. mbg

    Mar 14, 2018, 23:35 #107986

    The Gooner issue from May 2011 says it all, but doesn't surprise many, not on here anyway, not great reading for the wengerites though, and the few left on here, so the WOB's were/are wrong say the wengerites ? really ? (some of us were saying it even before 2011) hopefully reading that will waken even more of them up and get them out of their stupor, how the f**k has the c**t gotton away with it for so long ? and was even before that, and still is. We want wenger out now.

  28. mbg

    Mar 14, 2018, 22:34 #107985

    Ref West Ham maybe now Brady will stop getting her knickers moist over wenger (it must be the accent it can't be anything else) backing him etc, etc, and mind her own business and concentrate on her own club, reputation, and future, lets see if she's as quick to slag off her own fans wanting change as quick as she was/is Arsenals. wenger out.

  29. Arseneknewbest

    Mar 14, 2018, 21:28 #107984

    Alsace - Nice one. Perhaps St Helena would be a better destination for his exile mirroring the final resting place of his imperialist and deluded compatriot napoleon. I'd even offer to row the boat if it meant he'd disappear for good.

  30. Alsace

    Mar 14, 2018, 21:08 #107983

    Bad arise, that's a really thoughtful comment. If I stop to think what I loathe about the Premier League is the money being peeled up against the wall of players and agents. Wenger is of course a unique irritant, but talking to other fans of other clubs, the game at the top is anodyne and dreary. A bore talked up to be caviar, when the fish and chips of old was far more entertaining. If it wasn't such a good PAyE earner I'd be strongly in favour of a new maximum wage. With Brexit we can impose that and get rid of the internationally overpaid without fear of restraint of trade conflicts. The game was frankly more fun with Scotch (sic) Welsh and Irish players aplenty. We would obviously want a complete ban on Alsatian managers. And deportation thereof. And deportation to Tahiti. In chains. Or man traps. Grrrrrr.

  31. Paulward

    Mar 14, 2018, 20:10 #107982

    Agree with Mark about the empty seats. Kroenke and sponsors will be noticing that people are staying away in droves, and will be worrying about shifting next years season tickets. Now the fig leaf of permanent CL participation has disappeared Wenger looks very vulnerable indeed.

  32. mbg

    Mar 14, 2018, 18:58 #107981

    Exter, good post, another one of those be careful what you wish for moments, long done away with and forgotten now as we're there now with TOF, from the wengerite luvvies, yes £1 signs were appearing in all the pigs eyes (none more than wengers)and of course another reason because TOF thought he was God and wanted/decided it and thought of it as his, and still does, what a fooking c**t. We want wenger out now.

  33. markymark

    Mar 14, 2018, 17:59 #107980

    Sorry guys but if Arsenal turned around and said Max Allegri will be managing Arsenal next season do you expect 35k to turn up for his first game? If Arsenal announce the mighty Wengo is managing Arsenal for the next season do you expect 35k to turn up? I deliberately wrote that sentence twice with two options . Be honest now. Yes football will probably come off the boil and yes the City title stroll dampens enthusiasm like any title stroll does . However the current Arsenal attendance mystery is down to one man. Arsenal supporters do not want to vent at the ground , they just don’t want to be at the ground when he is managing. Badarse is simply using this article to deflect from Wenger’s long slow death by a 25,000 crowd gap. Ps anyone who keeps on going on about “he’s still got the money even if no one turns up, well try telling that to Addidas and Nike when we are looking for new sponsors.

  34. John F

    Mar 14, 2018, 17:55 #107979

    The decision to make 2/3 of the ground season ticket only instantly changed the demi graphics of our Support to older or wealthier.The younger working class were then told to pay a membership fee just for the right to apply for the remaining tickets.It is no wonder the place has the atmosphere of a BUPA care home at visiting time.

  35. markymark

    Mar 14, 2018, 17:47 #107978

    Badarse - what proof do you have Arsenal were going to the Wall? A capacity lift to 50k plus at Highbury ( achievable ) would have sufficed. The move itself cost Arsenal dear at the time with money running out on a few occasions and work stopping. A decision to hold fire on developing during the 2008 onward financial crisis might have appeared now as very good management. Taking a comparison RBS ended up in the poop not for their lack of development it was for over stretching when everyone else was saying stop. The deed is done now but Arsenal’s problems were due to over development not because of pre existing financial problems. Not sure you’ve got your facts right on that one.

  36. Exiled in Pt

    Mar 14, 2018, 16:34 #107977

    Spot on Exeter perfectly summed up.

  37. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Mar 14, 2018, 16:31 #107976

    Good piece Kev : I live out in the wilds of Essex and a lot of the football fans bought season tickets at an introductory offer of £400+ which to watch PL football, compared to Arsenal, Chelsea and the Spuds, is a good deal. Many of them however were not West Ham fans but felt that the intro offer was just too good to refuse. I think when the prices start to go up at WH, as surely they will, many of these ST holders will not renew. I do think a correction in football is coming and empty stadia will be quite a common sight as the "penny finally drops" with the fans who have been ripped off over the last 20 odd years.

  38. Exeter Ex

    Mar 14, 2018, 16:09 #107975

    It is absolute nonsense to suggest the choice was stadium move or go to the wall. Highbury could've been developed to its capacity within the constraints of the area, not as big as the Emirates of course but the TV money is a reason why that is even less necessary. Where would AFC be if stayed at Highbury? Is the fear we'd have dropped to 6th or something? The stadium move was pure and simple to raise the share price for a sell whilst loading the cost onto the club itself. Supporters were lied to and ripped off. Same at West Ham, where the owners sold their famous old stadium to rent out the Olympic stadium on the cheap, lying to fans about the reasons why. Both moves have cost both clubs their identity. Yes the whole football world now is corporate but Arsenal and W Ham have taken it further than most through their actions. At least other football clubs still seem to see on-field success as important for their 'brand'.

  39. mbg

    Mar 14, 2018, 16:00 #107974

    We would walk 500 miles, that banner (like the old fraud himself) is well out of date, lol. We want wenger out now.

  40. Wrinkly Voyeur

    Mar 14, 2018, 15:54 #107973

    well...errrr....overall I belieeeeeeeeeeeve Arsene knows things about his bowels that you don't know...errrrrr....as well I belieeeeeeeeeeeve if you leetle beet sniff one of Arsene's top top qwaliteee bowels movements you will show great spiwit, mental strengz, big commitment and big desire....errrrrr.....why do you look at me?

  41. Exiled in Pt

    Mar 14, 2018, 15:54 #107972

    We can only hope it is the start but very unlikely!! I keep saying it but as a club Arsenal will never be the same again under this owner and board and we will never shift them. Even if we are lucky enough to see the back of the zip fiddler and that will not happen soon! The remit is not to compete with the elite and we are kidding ourselves if we think that is what wa#k yank junior has been brought in for!! Its just to keep the money turning to back there investments in America. Give me back Highbury and not being able to compete with the elite, as we seemed to manage it then...

  42. mbg

    Mar 14, 2018, 15:16 #107971

    Kevin the official attendance can very easily state that and indeed what it likes, because the gullible, mostly wengerites, will believe it and indeed anything. We want wenger out.

  43. Badarse

    Mar 14, 2018, 14:03 #107970

    Tony Evans and Ron, both differing posts but alluding to the same thing, and both correct. I believe that the problem needs breaking down though. The recognition that football was being driven by TV and fuelled by the financial returns meant a serious rethink was required. Go with the trend or go under. AFC's decision to move, to tie themselves in with this hyper-nonsense talk, to apply a corporate mentality to most aspects of everyday football club life was a simple choice of change or go to the wall. Though everything about the running of the club is obnoxious to me I recognise the importance. I never want Arsenal to go to the wall. After the financial decision and policy change the hidden results have come to affect many aspects of the club's existence. All disappointing at best and ugly at worst. I expect this nowadays as it is happening all around us. Therefore I separate the decision to move from all of the fall out which has ensued. Two separate institutions but both creating a certain sadness. Change in these aspects are here to stay unfortunately.

  44. Yes its Ron

    Mar 14, 2018, 13:36 #107969

    Tonys dead right. The prices, the hype, the over exposure, the staggering wages earned at the top end of football, the awful new corporate inspired, corporate catered for stadia have changed football for ever. Being a footie fan for many these days is a statement, a badge of identity if you like. Its a game that been adopted by many and no longer carries so many fans who were brought up to love the game and the Clubs. Because of all this its bred an unhealthy attitude among these new fans, an attitude that says winning nigh on every match is compulsory, the other team doesn't exist and theres no room for anything any different if their expectations (often wildly out of kilter with the Clubs real prospects) arent met. Layer that with the diet created by SKY and BT etc etc and the propensity of fans to be utterly brainwashed by the dirge thats spewed out of their televisions every day, the end result is whats happened at West Ham. PS Man U were knocked out of the ECL last night.They lost a match! Was that a wake, a funeral or a judicial enquiry last night on BT by the dreadful idiot Lineker, the fool Ferdinand and the detestable Scholes? Its garbage like that that fuel's fan irrationality in my view.

  45. TonyEvans

    Mar 14, 2018, 12:56 #107967

    Good piece Kevin. I don't go to games now, and will not until Wenger has gone, so I don't really know the new breed of fan, but I can guess they will have changed a great deal from my Arsenal heydays in the 70s 80s and 90s up to 2005. I used to love the banter and the camaraderie which I assume has long since vanished from The Emirates (and I assume from The Olympic Stadium). Highbury and Upton Park were great venues, consigned by greed and lies to the history books, replaced with soulless bowls which are almost impossible to feel any love for. Supporters are now viewed as a mere inconvenience, made virtually redundant by the huge amounts of cash flowing in from TV rights. Going to football used to be about more than just the actual match, it was soaking up the atmosphere and enjoying being somewhere you held as special. I hope you are right, Kevin, in that we are seeing the first cracks appearing in the so called best League in the world - before it's too late and football as we used to know it gone forever.