Europa League Provides An Opportunity To Start Addressing Arsenal’s European Narrative

The pattern of consistent underachievement needs to be reversed



Europa League Provides An Opportunity To Start Addressing Arsenal’s European Narrative

Eyes on the prize...


Watching Liverpool beat Manchester City in Tuesday night’s Champions League final second leg, the memory went back to 2008 and Arsenal’s own quarter final with Liverpool. Then, as now, Liverpool enjoyed some fortune in qualifying, the most blatant example being a stonewall penalty not given in the first leg when Dirk Kuyt pulled back Alex Hleb in the area on 65 minutes with the scores level. At the Etihad, City should have been 2-0 up before half-time, but Leroy Sane’s goal was wrongly awarded as offside. The linesman flagged it, but didn't the official behind the goal see that the ball had come to the City player from a deflection off Liverpool’s James Milner? Pep Guardiola was rightly indignant and his protests at half-time saw him sent to the stand.

Still, to suffer such injustices with the stakes so high, you at least have to be in the mix at this stage of the competition. Liverpool progressed to the last four, and it’s worth pondering how – in the Wenger era, the Anfield club have managed to do this on four occasions in ten attempts compared to Arsenal’s two semi-final appearances in 19 campaigns. Might it have been something to do with the abilities of Rafa Benitez, who achieved three of those runs to the last four? Or were they lucky every time? Then, again, to achieve that fortune, you have to at least make the last eight. The Gunners have achieved this only six times out of 19, progressing further only twice.

Bayern Munich’s qualification last night took me back to another Arsenal memory from recent years. It was the assertion of CEO Ivan Gazidis, after the club signed a new deal with Emirates and looked forward to the end of their existing kit deal with Nike, that the club could now “compete at a level like a club such as Bayern Munich”. That was in the summer of 2013.

I took a look at the semi-finalists of the last five Champions League tournaments to see what Bayern’s level was.

2014 – Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea
2015 – Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Juventus
2016 – Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Atletico Madrid, Manchester City
2017 – Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Juventus, Monaco
2018 – Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Roma, Liverpool

Four semis in five seasons, although they have been eliminated every time. In that period, Arsenal have taken part in four Champions League tournaments and never made it past the last 16. Twice in that time, they were eliminated by Bayern, on the last occasion by a humiliating 10-2 aggregate scoreline.

There’s an article in the current issue of The Gooner (which can be bought online here or at home and away matches on your approach to the stadium) by Peter Le Beau titled ‘Travelling Hopefully, But Never Arriving’. The writer concludes that Arsenal, given their historical stature in the domestic game, have under-delivered in European competition. Part of the reason for this is the fact that the club have lost four of the six finals they have taken part in.

When Ivan Gazidis talked about the level of Bayern Munich back in 2013, he was presumably referring to what the club would be able to afford in terms of transfer fees and wages. In Europe, since then, Bayern have certainly been as consistent as Arsenal were in the four seasons after, except for the German club, that consistency has generally meant the predictability of a semi-final exit. Arsenal’s level was to drop out two rounds earlier.

In fairness to Arsene Wenger’s team, the record of Premier League clubs generally, in spite of their resources, has not been impressive in the Champions League of late. The period from 2005 until 2012 saw seven final appearances by English sides, but since then there have been none, and only three semi-final appearances. So much for the greatest league in the world?

But Ivan Gazidis was not comparing the Gunners with other domestic outfits. Bayern was the benchmark he set. Winning the Europa League would be a start in the attempt to reach anything like the standard achieved by the Bavarian club, regarded as genuine competitors, rather than also-rans, for the continent’s biggest club prize. Arsenal need to build a reputation in Europe at odds with their humiliating and predictable CL exits, because currently, they feel like the poor relative compared to even England’s other under-achieving sides.

Logic says that, with a three goal advantage from the first leg, they should qualify. However, Roma’s triumph against Barcelona and Juventus going 3-0 up in Madrid should serve warning that nothing can be taken for granted and that Arsenal need ensure they are focussed and ready to contain CSKA Moscow’s attack.


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41
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  1. markymark

    Apr 13, 2018, 19:50 #108523

    It’s a bit off the track this but reflecting back on Ron’s line about society being more hostile in the 70’s . This is an interesting view considering the recent crime panic . Anyway it’s noticeable that cartoons such as ‘Andy Capp’ are no longer acceptable . immigrant beating is a horror and local town , pub kickings seem to be on the wane. A local town to me Thame used to be a bit of a rebel rousing place in my youth. Now it’s full of Barbour wearing bankers. We may have lost the soul but gained a sheen of calmness. Believe me Northern cities will be next .

  2. Yes its Ron

    Apr 13, 2018, 17:48 #108521

    Marky/SK - i dont mind admitting that i used touts for many years for the bigger games at Highbury or even for lesser games where instead i fancied seats in he East Stand. Never a problem and always fair prices once they knew their customers. The ones now at the Emirates are unusable cretins in my view for a host of reasons.

  3. markymark

    Apr 13, 2018, 17:29 #108518

    Both SK and Ron have reminded me of I think it was the first game at WHL I was on the Shelf which was horrible to get out of. By optical illusion the stairwells appeared to narrow at the bottom. In front of me a claustrophobic lady went hysterical . She was literally man lifted down the stairs screaming as went. This stopped a massive press. I felt that 47k at Tottenham felt very tight with an imbalance some areas over full particularly if the away support was large. Highbury always felt roomy and safer in comparison.

  4. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Apr 13, 2018, 15:31 #108510

    Mark, there were no tickets at WHL in 71 - first come first served, never happen today thankfully but if it had been all ticket then I would have had no chance, unless I went to a tout.

  5. markymark

    Apr 13, 2018, 13:51 #108505

    SK and Ron - we all wish to be younger I suppose but just sometimes I wish I’d been 10 years older to stand a chance of seeing Anderlecht , Spurs away 71’ Liverpool at Wembley 71’. That was one thing I was always jealous of my dear old dad. He got to see all 3! SK what a match to have seen. I’m so glad I got to see all the 87’ semis against Spurs and yes guess what I didn’t have a ticket . Bought from a tout outside WHL.

  6. Yes its Ron

    Apr 13, 2018, 10:15 #108498

    some great recollects about crowds and risk. I still feel that socirty has changed now though enough to allow safe standing areas. Society back in the 70s was a more hostile place generally and it impacted on crowds at football. Those type of thins and events dont happen in isolation from the time and place in which we live. That said, the worst i ever went to was when living in Manchester 1971. I went to a City v Utd derby. fantastic match 3-3. Uts were 3-1 up. It was the game where Best had recd threats of being shot before the game. I was on what was called the Platt Lane end of the ground at Maine Road and the way in and out of there was by metal open plan type steps at the back of the stand. The crushing was immense and peoples feet were getting trapped between the steps, mine did but some how wriggled loose. Very scary. I ll never forget that day. The only time my ears ever 'popped' due to noise volume of the crowd. So loudly defafening. the official crowd was 62000 ish as i recall. Maine Road was a big ground and im pretty sure there was far more than that in there that November day.I used to go see City a lot. It was the days of Lee Bell and Summerbee and Corrigan etc. Great side. You know how many are in grounds when you go frequently dont you. The crowd there was close to 70000 in my view that day. People were getting in all over the place. Utd were in decline but Best was a one man team for a lot of that season till they faded. Ive never been to a ' derby' like that since. I ha ve to be honest and to say that as much as we ve had derby rivalries with Spurs that have got hot from time to time, the London derbys dont get close to the Manchester ones in their intensity. Ive been to Aston Villa v Birmingham ones too at Villa Park. Those teams could be in the vanarama league and the intensity would sizzle im sure. The 70s were certainly dangerous days at times crowd wise, though the hooliganism has always been over hyped in my view, especially when people recall it. You could find pockets of hooliganism if you wanted to but it was easily ignored and sidestepped. Worst fighting i used to see was at West Ham to be honest as id go Upton Park occasionally back then, one match in particular v Coventry, must have been late 70s/early 80s one night was pretty terrifying. The Coventry 'firms' were some thing else.

  7. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Apr 13, 2018, 9:11 #108497

    MarkyMark, I also made it inside WHL in 71 and I have always felt one small mistake, like redirecting a section of the crowd or leaving the gates open for another 5 minutes and we would be talking about loss of life - it was a madhouse that night. Inside the ground there was no room on the terraces so we stood in one of the gangways on a carpenters trestle that we found behind the stands. Looking back in my more sensible years I always thought it was a great night that could have gone horribly wrong.

  8. Bob Bayliss

    Apr 12, 2018, 19:16 #108496

    George Graham's Arsenal might have had a chance against Atletico, but if Wenger's pussies face them in either the semi or final they will be properly owned. Diego Costa v our central defence? Oh dear.....

  9. markymark

    Apr 12, 2018, 19:13 #108495

    My dad got into WHL for the 71’ title decider. The man next to him had on a shirt literally torn to pieces. A crowd suspected to be a 100,000 in total both inside the ground and out. A lot of people probably drunk . Could of been us. Then in ‘87 smaller crowd granted but pushing and pushing against the police lines to enter the Shelf. Again could of been us . So before we denigrate Scousers we should remember our lucky escapes and of course Ibrox in 71’. I’m all for safe standing but I’d suggest 5k grouping all ticketed

  10. arrgee

    Apr 12, 2018, 19:02 #108494

    TonyEvans 14:48pm 12th Apr 2018 "no one is going to convince me that drunk, late for the match, Scousers did not play a huge part in the tragedy." Regarding Heysel & Hillsbrough it was more of a surprise similar didn't happen more. They weren't drunk late fans, it was pretty systematic. Fans (not just Liverpool ones) would turn up without tickets and crowd the turnstiles making sure those with tickets couldn't get in and if somehow they did make it to the turnstiles it would be one or two extra per ticket. I was at Wembley in 1977 and there were plenty getting hauled up into the ground and piling in over the turnstiles. I reckon the true attendance of some of those games was well over 100.000. Nowadays you can't get in with a brolly but back then it was an un-stewarded free for all. Amazing there was never a fatal mass crush at the turnstiles.

  11. mbg

    Apr 12, 2018, 18:07 #108493

    Bard, and we all know why it's being, and has been bigged up, and by who, just the way the FA Cup was when it was all they and him had left to save his boney arse. We want wenger out

  12. markymark

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:44 #108492

    Badarse - have we wrecked society yet? Argh but you never said it did you ? Now who was in this vanguard of change then with you ? Did you have anything to do with National Council of Civil Liberties? Dirty secrets came out the wash recently about their affiliates ( they thought they were the vanguard of change as well ) just ask Harriet Harman , Jack Dromey , Patricia Hewitt though of course they deny any wrong doing. Now go toddle off to your Momentum committee . I’m sure your statement about misguided Jews will go down well with the ‘ Socialism of fools’ brigade.

  13. Moscowgooner

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:36 #108491

    Hope we get a chorus of 'on our way, we're on our way, we're going to Moscow to see the Bear' at the VEB tonight. RIP: Denton.

  14. Moscowgooner

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:17 #108490

    I certainly hate Liverpool more than any other non London club: the way Heysel has been whitewashed out of footballing history - while Hillsboro' 89 is constantly rammed down our throats. I was in Brussels in 1980 and that Valencia defeat was really painful, given the way we had dominated the game - only Kempes turned up that evening for them. But what a great season! The stand outs being the win over the Scousers at Coventry - magic atmosphere - and the two Juventus games: epics both. RIP Paul Vaessen.

  15. Yes its Ron

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:10 #108489

    Im with GR re the EC. It would be good to win it 1. because we never have and 2 because its our level now, like it or not. The Club is desperate for some Euro presence and credibility plus it would shut Spurs fans up who still drone on about them having won it 30 odd yrs back, while they choose to ignore the ICFC as if it was the Sherpa van trophy. It might also give AFC a bit of belief for when theyre next in the ECL, as the club rarely shows any. I think AFC has had an inferiority complex in it for years and its why we flop so often in it. It was the same after 1971 title, no real belief. Any trophy is a good one in my book and in this case it would again take the shine off Tottenhams league campaign and thus further annoy them which has to be good. The general issue over the manager etc ought to suspended while so far into a cup run as i view it.

  16. Jock Gooner

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:08 #108488

    Tony - The police cocked up at Hillsborough but as you say the scousers themselves were responsible for what happened that day. Every last scouser who turned up there without a ticket and conned their way in has blood on their hands - scum.

  17. peter wain

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:07 #108487

    gazidis was the idiot who email what a great window we had had last year when it was nothing of the sort. Win tonight and the semi final and Wenger will get another contract and we will buy 2 maximum 3 players next window. It is just so depressing he just cannot learn and the owner has no ability in managing our club and is surrounded by yes men

  18. Exeter Ex

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:07 #108486

    "I am vilified for standing up for my players, my manager, my club" Badarse. "Arsenal is mine" Badarse. "Did it matter that some craved a constant ego-massaging by aligning themselves with a football club" Badarse.

  19. Exiled in Pt

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:05 #108485

    Le fraud will still be there next year no matter what happens the rest of this season .So i would rather we won the Eurpoa cup and add it to the list of trophies, after all we have never won it before.....The board & Wenger out

  20. Bard

    Apr 12, 2018, 17:05 #108484

    Hi Tony, no not really. I haven't bothered much with the CL either. I tend to watch a specific game like the City/Liverpool one but its overhyped and bloated as a competition. I tend to agree with those who want it to go back to how it was, just for the league winners.

  21. GoonerRon

    Apr 12, 2018, 16:56 #108483

    @ Tony Evans - couldn’t agree more about how other trophies have been diminished. When you’re on the cusp of a 10 year trophy drought and have two cups in 27 years (i.e. that lot) you cant afford to be so choosey. All the Wenger stuff aside, I really, truly hope we win the EL. We’ve got no right wth our European history to be so snobbish about the chance to win a European trophy. When we were beating Parma I wasn’t pining for the European Cup and wont start now.

  22. TonyEvans

    Apr 12, 2018, 15:56 #108482

    Bard - agree that the possibility of winning the EL may be giving Wenger a new deal is not good but as for bigging it up - why not? Seems like you have been hoodwinked by the CL or nothing hype!

  23. Badarse

    Apr 12, 2018, 15:54 #108481

    He fiddled with the toggles on his duffle coat. Anyone looking aghast were treated to him cocking a snoop, unlike a couple of OG posters snooping a cock. He clambered up onto the bank's deposit box; it was just his tilt at safe-standing. He thought it unreasonable to compare 1971 with today, or even yesterday with 1886; and then touched his chinny-chin-chin. As the Timex ad says, all times are just hands on a face. Did it really matter how the club stated attendances? Did it really matter that a disparate group of individuals had a limited outlook, and were just obsessed with a football manager. That one might constantly repeat another's posts and draw attention to it as if it was a rarity. Did it matter that some craved a constant ego-massaging by aligning themselves with a football club; angry in defeat and angry without a prospect of football dominance. Is it something to do with a snooping cock, or a drooping one. Macho? Groucho? Remember the man who can see through women is missing an awful lot. He took a bap and rolled his eggs, then he rolled his eyes, and finally wiggled to roll his Rs.

  24. Bard

    Apr 12, 2018, 15:43 #108480

    Can't believe that the Ropey cup is now being bigged up. Bar Atletico its no more than championship standard at best. The notion that winning it might earn Wenger a stay of execution is laughable. Frankly I couldn't give a stuff about tonight.

  25. Exiled in Pt

    Apr 12, 2018, 15:30 #108479

    Biggest joke of the CL is only one English club has won it as champions of England Man ure in 2008! Should revert back to what it was European cup for the winners of each league and the 2nd and 3rd place clubs back to the uefa cup .Might mean a bit more then and Le frauds 4th place trophy would not exist .. Mind you deluded zip fiddler cannot even get that now... The board and Wenger out

  26. mbg

    Apr 12, 2018, 15:10 #108478

    Tony Evans, most of us won't give a monkeys if we score three more mate, but we know who will. wenger out.

  27. Yes its Ron

    Apr 12, 2018, 14:56 #108477

    Tony - right with you on yr 2 posts there. I blame the Beatles!!! Liverpool football didnt exist until they rolled up. Liverpool bored everybody with their football till Barnes and CO had that 2 or 3 yr spell from 86 to 89 period. The crowd there is even a myth. 'Walk on' was Celtics song but Liv nicked it and it was attributed to them cos of that grossly unfunny fat idiot Tarbuck in the 60s. That stadium has always been no more noisy than anywhere else unless their winning. Ive been there approx 20 times in my time as a Gunners fan. Its never that intimidating. Their historic hooligans though often have been ! We re told theyre all paragons of virtue though by the media. No chance, theyre as bad anybody elses fans. The other night attacking the Man City coach showed it again. Its no secret why its their fans whove been involved in the major fan incidents this last 40 yrs or so, but hey ho Heysel was all those nasty Italians fault wasnt it. Phil Thompson and McManaman - both atrocious. Scallies who unfortunately underpin the perception of scousers by anybody not from Liverpool.

  28. TonyEvans

    Apr 12, 2018, 14:48 #108476

    Redshirts - too true re Liverpool. Let's not forget Hillsborough too, which brought an end to the terraces and the fantastic atmosphere they created. I'm not saying the police were entirely blameless but no one is going to convince me that drunk, late for the match, Scousers did not play a huge part in the tragedy.

  29. mbg

    Apr 12, 2018, 14:40 #108475

    It's not the club that needs addressing and/or hasn't delivered, it's the past it out of date manager at the helm and that has been the case for fourteen years now, it's not rocket science. wenger out.

  30. Redshirtwhitesleeves

    Apr 12, 2018, 14:35 #108474

    Tony- that champions league is one of the worst things ever to happen to football. Especially since it became bloated with 3rd and 4th place teams qualifying. We've probably suffered more than most with 4th place becoming the yardstick of measuring 'success' at our club. It's effectively killed off any ambition of being the best, as the prize money from qualification alone is all the club cared about.The whole thing has created a culture of greed, smugness and complacency and the same old pigs scoffing in its trough. The group stages bore me to tears, even when we have been in it. As for Liverpool- the media fawning over them is beginning to reach the levels of the 70's and 80's again, even though they have won nothing. Funny how the press seem to forget they were responsible for Heysel and getting English clubs banned. Could you imagine if that had if been Arsenal? We'd be vilified to this day and never be allowed to forget it!

  31. TonyEvans

    Apr 12, 2018, 14:00 #108473

    While on the subject of my dislike of all things Liverpool - it really dates back to Liverpool's 70s and 80s domination of the game, when my passion for The Arsenal was at its peak and the media hated us but loved the Scousers. One thing I always remember was the way Liverpool were even praised when they continually wasted time by passing the ball back to the keeper! Apparently (according to the radio or TV commentary) it was really 'professional' and they 'were taking the heat out of the game' or 'slowing the game down'! Of course when we did it it was just labelled as plain boring! I'm convinced banning it affected them more then any other team! My intense dislike of them was why I loved any win against them, more than beating any other team - Mickey's winner in 1989 was all the more sweeter for being at Anfield, and I could not have written the script for it better myself.

  32. TonyEvans

    Apr 12, 2018, 13:43 #108472

    What really irks me with football now (apart from the obscene money) is the fact that any trophy that's not the CL or Premiership is somehow deemed as second rate. Largely down to the media, but Sky are ably supported in this by the players and managers of our so called top sides. Now we'll have Chelsea, United and the Spuds coming out with 'an FA Cup win doesn't equate to a successful season' nonsense. Try telling the fans that - especially the success starved lot down the road! The CL is one of the the worse things to happen to football in my lifetime - a misnomer from the start that the media and football in general allow to dominate virtually every other aspect of the top flight game. Ron - with you all the way re the Scousers! Can't abide them and the way the media still fawn over them. A mate was saying Phil Thompson was at his worst during the City match and I shall be willing whoever they get in the semis to stuff them out of sight!

  33. Exiled in Pt

    Apr 12, 2018, 12:28 #108471

    Hello Ron, That is what i mean , that was why Gazidis used Bayern rather than Madrid or the other clubs that could just keep throwing other peoples money at it.Difference is Bayern compete on a consistent basis unlike us.. It was all just bollo#ks to make us think they were interested in competing when it was all about them making money...... Never would of expected King Liam to miss a penalty that night in Brussels cried my eyes out , like you say Tony it meant something then..... The board and Wenger out

  34. Yes its Ron

    Apr 12, 2018, 12:13 #108470

    redshirts - Yes pal. euro football has been fixed for decades. I recall Cloughie coming on to the TV after his Derby side had been robbed by a ref who was found guilty of fixing matches some yrs later. He said 'the ref was bent and if you dont think so, sue me'. Not a peep afterwards from UEFA or the ref or anybody! Yes, Barca and Madrid - perennial cheats. Agree too re Liverpool. Cant stand them. Once Arsenals match is done tonight, unless we reach the final, i shall largely ignore football till next season. The thought of hearing about Klopp and Liverpool every f-----g day now is just not some thing i can tolerate. As you say, hes a gurning clown. Sums him up a treat. PS loss to Valencia hurt us all didnt it.

  35. TonyEvans

    Apr 12, 2018, 11:51 #108469

    Tonight has 3-0 written all over it, with our lightweights thinking the job's already done. Tragic that most of us won't give a monkeys if we do capitulate in true Wengerist style. Not a reflection on the EL, just the awful apathy afflicting the club under this stale, out of date manager. As Redshirts says it used to hurt - especially that Valencia loss!

  36. Paulo75

    Apr 12, 2018, 11:42 #108468

    Not winning the CL in 2003/2004 when we were the best team in Europe was criminal really. Made worse by getting knocked out by "JT", "Lamps" and Co.

  37. Redshirtwhitesleeves

    Apr 12, 2018, 11:25 #108467

    Ron your right about that quarter final vs Liverpool, what a fit up! As was the final in Paris against Barca. They were never going to let us win that were they, persistent fouling by them going unpunished, I think it was Marquez for them could have been sent off twice over. Barca and Madrid play to different rules it seems. Cheating b****** both. Couldn't care less who wins it as long as not the media darlings Liverpool. Couldn't stand to see that gurning moron of a manager going loopy on the touch line if they were to win it. As the article says, our record in Europe is appalling really though we have lost out in finals to horrific bad luck and freak goals, penalties etc. I remember sobbing as a 7 year old losing to Valencia. When we were a proper football club it used to hurt losing like that!

  38. Yes its Ron

    Apr 12, 2018, 11:13 #108466

    Exiled - im pretty sure that German legislation is very much the guide for how football clubs behave in Germany though mate, right through to transfers, seat pricing and use of youth academy players etc . Its not this philistine free for all we have here, with crooks and all and sundry buying up the clubs each year and television companies bending the sport all ways to suit themselves.

  39. Exiled in Pt

    Apr 12, 2018, 11:07 #108465

    Gazidis used Bayern as the benchmark as they out of all the elite have to operate within a fairly strict financial set up in the German league. Difference is they still look after the supporter first, just look at ticket prices and the fact 75% of the club is owned by the club not a syrup wearing wa#nker filling his own pockets! We will never compete with them all the time we have this owner and board. The board and Wenger out

  40. Yes its Ron

    Apr 12, 2018, 10:19 #108464

    Real Madrids name is on that cup. Yet again, another dubious decision to help them when most needed last night. Very convenient. Cant see past AM for the EC really but you never know. PS That 2008 QF was a total sticth up. Gerrard allowed to kick Flamini off the park all night till he forced him off and it all changed for us that night as he left the pitch. As you say the Kuyt foul and then the very convenient pen awarded at the Kop end. Arsenal were never going to be allowed to win that night anymore than Juve were going to be allowed to last night. Its normally a stitched up tournament to favour the elite clique. C mon Roma!

  41. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Apr 12, 2018, 9:12 #108462

    "Logic says" that never applies in football Frank, we all know that Arsenal are more than capable of screwing this tie up. However this competition is at the right level for Arsene and his team, all very comfortable for the bigger clubs and not too much passion needed to get through each round, the Europa Cup is made for this current Arsenal team and it's management style. The semi finals will be different though and if Arsenal do make it, opposing teams attitudes will harden as they sniff a bit of silverware. It will be then that the usual will happen - Arsenal will fall short.