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1. mark

   Apr 15, 2011, 10:46 #5136

   of course kroenke and usmanov support wenger as he is delivering shareolders return. all investors want a CEO they can trust not to lose money. as for the football, the passion and the winning, thats clearly secondary today, arsenal has been taken over by business minded people whose priority is to make money, thats why AW plumps for the type of players that are average but who he believes will improve under his coaching. its a mathematical formula as he buys them cheap, coaches them, sells them on at a profit and all of us lot pay over the top for the priveledge of watching this conveyor belt business model every year and thats the reason the emirates is quiet because the players that we have just do not get the pulse racing due to their total lack of passion and fight. frankly Anfield, W Hot lane, Manure, Stamford bridge, man city and all going to have players who get the crowd going. i would have paid double if asked a few years ago to watch Henry and his team play. there were matches at highbury that i will never forget and there are too many matches at emirates that have been totally forgettable

2. Richard Ansell

   Apr 15, 2011, 8:32 #5132

   Re GF60 - Yes there have been some great results, the home Barca game included - but ultimately we fail. As for the bad miss by Bendtner at the Camp Nou, that is just a prime example of a player costing us a result that should have been shipped out a long time ago and probably would have been by a manager worth his salt. We have too many 'Bendtners' in our squad and that is a big part of our problem. Also we can all 'cherry pick' the odd result over the last few years that has been good but each one is a false dawn and we find ourselves repeatedly falling back to games like Newcastle away this season.

3. Gf60

   Apr 15, 2011, 7:01 #5131

   @WON "When such a team meets a pretender, like the one Whinger is, they thrash them- like the black and blue Barca have handed to us on the trot 4 times." Um, wasn't there an Arsenal 2 Barcelona 1 just recently and a bad miss from Nic that prevented us going through? Hardly a thrashing?

4. Whinger_OUT_NOW

   Apr 14, 2011, 20:01 #5128

   and Mike Barry, what do you mean by "apppreciate football as it should be played"? Seeing 60% possession and 20 shots to Arsenal but the score 2-1 to the opposition because Clichy once again forgot he's on a football field and not at the beach in June? Or how about an endless number of passes in and around the opposition box without anyone taking the responsibility of banging it in? Is that the "football" you enjoy? Or is the implosion football that you enjoy, when a team collapses between Dec-March and has been doping so for 7 years now with the precision of an atomic clock. You can set your calendar by Whinger's team collapsing. Is what what you enjoy? Or does your enjoyment stem from the same old, "we are a young team with a mega tough mentality" crap that he hands, along with "finishing below the first is also a trophy"? Or perhaps you dervice great joy from watching never-to-come-good, overpaid, lazy, shameless, brazen gits that Whinger passes off as players, who probably wouldn't make the bench at other top clubs. I'll tell you what's enjoyable football - it's watching Barca play well, do what Whinger can only dream of his team doing, while still winning the game in the end. THAT is enjoyable football. When such a team meets a pretender, like the one Whinger is, they thrash them- like the black and blue Barca have handed to us on the trot 4 times. That's what "enjoyable" teams do - come back home with the spoils while also having a good time and doing things in style, not the way Whinger comes back home, full of disgraceful excuses about referees, pitch and schedule. His last gem was complaining about playing on Sunday. I suppose being an AKB basically means being a glutton for punishment for life

5. Mike Barry

   Apr 14, 2011, 19:08 #5127

   Contrary to the above writer, who obviously does not remember the boring George Graham 'win at all costs' philosophy, I support the Wenger model but with some obvious reservations. If he wishes win at all costs, I suggest he joins the Stoke fan club and leaves people like me to appreciate football as it should be played.

6. Richard Ansell

   Apr 14, 2011, 16:22 #5125

   David - The problem is we have been close to being a great side for too many years now and I (and many other fans) are either running out of patience or starting to doubt Wenger's ability to turn potential in to reality. I am sure you wish to see a return to those great seasons between 1998 and 2005 just as much as me, we only differ on who we think can deliver this. The simple fact is that Arsenal have let us down so many times in the big crunch games over the last few years that I have no confidence in the team any more and that has to be down to the manager. I will gladly eat my words if Wenger proves me wrong but I doubt I will have to. Good to exchange views with you by the way.

7. The Happening

   Apr 14, 2011, 13:54 #5121

   Good article Richard, thanks for reminding us all, that it really is that simple, 3 points and thats it really!! We've played sexy football, we've played ugly football too at times, but gotta admit, its the result that counts and the Groundhog Day feeling shared by many of us cannot be confirmed until May!! Again, keep it simple, clear out the dross, bring in quality, 'till then, we've gotta take the rough with the smoothe and keep cheering them on! Thanks to the Away gang up at the seaside on sunday, thats what I wanna hear!!

8. David

   Apr 14, 2011, 13:50 #5120

   Richard - I have read many of your comments on this site and your above comment is by far the most rational so far. However, it is worth reminding that we have clashed with Birmingham & Stoke 3 times in the League this season and won all of them. Plus we have beaten the other two physical sides Blackburn & Bolton this season too. Which suggest that we do have the ability to 'mix it' - perhaps more so than pre-2005? Yes, we did lose to Brum in the Carling Cup due to a horrendous late cock-up by Szeczney not by Arsene. Whilst I agree results against the top 4 sides aren't the best, it is worth bearing in mind we have taken 4pts off Man City, 3 off Chelsea (& were all over them at the Bridge). We still have home fixtures against Liverpool & Man Utd to be measured against. You rightly state that "we are so close to being a great side". Surely to remove the man who is taking us so close now would be foolhardy in the extreme, espiecally as we approach the final run in to the season.

9. Kev

   Apr 14, 2011, 12:52 #5119

   I think Wenger wants to win. He has admitted that he is a bad loser, so I doubt he is happy if we play brilliantly and then lose. In fact he has never came across as happy when we lose a game that we have dominated. I agree with what you are saying though. I don't think we need to make that extra clever/cocky pass when someone can get a shot off from 12 yards. This is the problem. The over-elaborate style that people get annoyed with when we don't score or even shoot. This has almost certainly come from the coach. Look at Jack Wilshere. He has always had a shot from range growing up, yet now I've seen him clean through a number of times and turn to pass.... Crazy. In fact when he has had a poke he's done well. This just needs a tiny bit of tweaking by the coach. Just saying if you can take a shot in the box then take it on. Chamakh is another who has actually been clean through one on one yet stopped and truned his back on goal......

10. Richard Ansell

    Apr 14, 2011, 12:44 #5118

    David - re your post number 5586. I agree that Wenger has an impressive record overall, but it's the key / big matches where he seems to struggle or when facing the physical tactics of say Birmingham or Stoke. I just wish he would have a better mix of players in his squad that was more adaptable to what was required for specific matches. How many times for example has Ferguson taken advantage of knowing just how Arsenal will play? Similarly how many times have I wished that we had a few more 'let's get stuck in' type of players to cope with the likes of Stoke and Blackburn. We are so close to being a great side and most of the frustration fans like I feel is that we can not understand why Arsene will not go that extra mile to turn us in to the finished article. I for one do not want to see him splashing silly amounts of money, but to be possibly three decent signings away from wiping that smug smile off Ferguson's face is very frustrating.

11. Darren Clark

    Apr 14, 2011, 12:00 #5117

    I would never say that Wenger doesnt want to win, but all i want is honsety from him. We have all watched the beautiful game and im sure some of us are wengeresc in being obsessed with the game. We can clearly see there is an element missing from the squad. I recently watched some of the videos from the graham era and id rather not sacrifice our game for a Graham method. As for removing him no way, what other club wouldnt want him at the helm, weve been spoilt and come on would you trade places with anyone else??

12. Loyal since 1980

    Apr 14, 2011, 11:32 #5116

    Ranil, It is not my job, to give names who should replace wenger, the standard names are out there, mohrinho,guardiola, hindink, etc, but I am saying that if we are happy with being the nearly men of football, then fair enough, I am not. I don't pay for 3 season tickets ebvery year to be mugged by AW's project. We have no winning menality, look at Man U, we have better players than them, much better, do we as supporters no feel ashamed that they have reached another CL semi, they compete and usally win a throphy every year, rememeber when Chelsae won two league titles in a row,06 & 07, what dod man U do, with a squad that was far inferior to ours, they went out a won 3 PL's in a row, and also throw in a CL league win as well! We are a big club, but AW is so comfortable at the club, that no person will stand up to him. We will never win anything with AW at the club, unless SK tells AW that he wants throphies and at that point AW will leave, as it is not his project to go out and spend big money on players. AW changed this club for the better, but he has not taken it forward, they players we have and the players Manu have, we should be ashamed or ourselfs to see what they are doing!

13. Dani

    Apr 14, 2011, 11:26 #5115

    What I miss most about our play is the lightning counter attacks that would finish any team off. Somewhere along the line we've lost a great deal of pace in attack and are too slow to get the ball up the pitch. I hope Arsene realises this and does something about it in the summer!

14. Jess Cooper

    Apr 14, 2011, 11:00 #5114

    Could not agree more, bang on!

15. Mark

    Apr 14, 2011, 10:35 #5113

    the fact is we do NOT have a good record of shots of goal. we have a good record of possession but i am going to lobby sky to divide up possession into each third of the field and i reckon arsenal are about 6th or 7th in having possession in the final third i.e. the part of the field near the opponents goal ! i am sorry but passing sideways is frankly easy. cutting a team open in whatever way you do that is the key and the best proof that you are out there to win the game. AW often says we try to win every game but you could make a case for disagreeing with that. he tries to have the most possession in every game which is important but not unless the players are also clear it about opening the other side up and not passing up and down pretty style. also once you occupy SLOW possession you simply invite and give the other team time to put 8 players in front of you. FAST possession, hitting teams on the break Henry/Pires/Ljunberg style is far more effective and how MAN U and Chelsea have played having learnt from the Arsenal team of tough back 5 plus fast and smart front 5 pre-2006

16. chris dee

    Apr 14, 2011, 9:36 #5112

    Mr Ansell. Thank you for joining the 'stating the bleedin obvious' club of which I am a member. My grandad tells me that between 1953 and 1969 when we won sod all there were times when we played some great football. Brilliant!The only problem being is that looking at the records for that period I don't see the name Arsenal against any trophy. But in 1993 when Stroller Graham didn't let anyone except Ian Wright cross the halfway line two pedestrian players Steve Morrow and Andy Linergan won us the Carling Cup and the F A Cup. Both of these players couldn't touch Cesc,Van Persie,Arshavin,Song etc in terms of talent but in the history of Arsenal they are legends.None of the current players will come anywhere near these two players unless they can show us the medals they won playing for The Gunners.

17. David

    Apr 14, 2011, 9:13 #5111

    Richard, Whilst I appreciate what you say in post 5583, to claim Wenger lacks tactical acumen is simply non-sensical. I know you are not the only one to repeat this soundbite. You do not end up 2nd in the toughest league in the world (or top 4) for 15 consecutive years if you are not tactically astute - let alone have the level of success in domestic and European cups that Wenger has had. He is not tactically naive by any stretch. Michael's comment also claims that Wenger has "lost the knack of winning". One look at the Table shows we have won more games than any other side this season - bar United - and with a game in hand.

18. Michael Joseph

    Apr 14, 2011, 8:22 #5109

    Sadly for all us Arsenal fans the manager has lost the knack of winning because he has not done so for so long. Whilst i admire and respect his coaching abilities it is time that he vacates the manager position to be replaced with someone hungry for trophy success. He has lost the spark of instilling winning into the team - one often gets the feeling that the players are also happy with coming second. The Club could use him in a different role as he has much to offer.

19. Richard Ansell

    Apr 14, 2011, 8:21 #5108

    David - you are right in that it was Hartson, I could have sworn it was Merson, but there we are. It does not alter the basis of my article though. One further thought from last nights excellent Spuds game was that one of the commentators stated that Mourinho was probably the last manager you would want to face 4 - 0 down after the first leg and I thought to myself yes and who would be the first manager you would want to face when 4 - 0 down after the first leg - you've got it our very own'one tactic man' Arsene Wenger! Says it all really.

20. David

    Apr 13, 2011, 21:38 #5105

    Hmmm, the writer fondly remembers us getting battered by the Hammers but nicking a 0-1 win at Upton Park with Merson scoring the winner. Checked the records & can't find such a game. May be referring to when Hartson scored in 1996. A season we finshed 5TH and scored 49 goals - the 10th highest in the Prem (even Wimbledon scored more). This year we look good for 2nd (possibly 1st) and have already hit 48 goals with 7 games remaining. Spurs have just lost 6-0 to Real Madrid. We lose 4-3 with 10 men to arguably the best team in the world ever - Barcelona. Yep, think i'll stick with Arsene.

21. Whinger_OUT_NOW

    Apr 13, 2011, 21:24 #5104

    Whinger's so-called "entertainment" and "total football" is another hoax - same as finishing second, third and fourth being trophies. The only one's getting "entertained" when Almunia or Koscielny or Squivestre make one of their cock-up's are opposition players (ask Birmingham) or non-Gooners. What is so entertaining about seeing endless sideways and back passes from Denilson? Or watching Diaby give the ball away for the nth time in 10 minutes? Or seeing wimpy Chamakh worry more about his hairstyle than goals? Or seeing Bendtner have the first touch of a new born baby? Whinger's brand of "total football" comes out when the opposition let us have the ball and/or don't press us. The moent any team does, no matter how average (just ask mighty Braga) Whinger's facade of total football falls apart and shows the world what his team really are - 2 world class players, 1 very good player, 1 great but lazy player and 7 absolute tits-up wankers. entertainment my arse. Just another lie that Whinger keeps feeding and that only the AKB still believe, but then they'll believe him if he tells them that he's Herbert Chapman reborn.

22. ranil

    Apr 13, 2011, 19:34 #5098

    at jack are u having a laugh manure play better football than arsenal, no way they football is often one paced and boring, would u rather have fletcher or fabregas, park ji sung or nasri, john o shea or jack wilshire. and to say the spuds play football better than us is just total rubbish, they are overly relaint on bale. yes granted are football against blackburn an sunderland was awful and we can play tippy tappy football however some of the play against blackpool is testimony to the brilliance of our attacking play and im afriad by no means to man u play better than us. and to loyal since 1980, who do u suggest? who could do a better job than wenger and to suggest that he dosent care and turns up to work in "slippers" is just stupid, this man cares and wants us to win just as much as any of us do, didnt u see the anger and frustration at the recent press conference, this man loves arsenal and to suggest he dosent care is just stupid

23. Gf60

    Apr 13, 2011, 16:27 #5093

    There are times when I wonder what being an Arsenal fan means to some people. Sure, I often get frustrated at tippy tappy, pass for ever, often with no shot at the end of it - I also get frustrated at some of the substitutions made at times...or worse, not made. Players who have no hope of making it being retained and perhaps the most frequent frustration is when some players go strolling when they should be working their arses off to get the ball back. But when I look back over the past 13 years, is 6 years without a pot that bad? A finacially secure club, a new stadium, still some of the best football played in the UK by some of the best players and a manager who despite faults (Yes he does have several) lives and breathes our club and is managing a side that lies second...not tenth or fourteenth...with a goals scored record ahead of all bar ManU and a defensive record bettered only by Chel$ki. Yes I do want pots in our trophy room, but actually think I'd prefer some form of sanity from the doom and gloom brigade.

24. aj

    Apr 13, 2011, 16:13 #5091

    I do think he really wants to win things but it means more to his ego not to be proved wrong.He's stuck in a rut where if he gives in and signs the 2 or 3 players we need then everyone will say why didn't you do that 3 years ago.So he sticks to his mantra of youth and reverts to his defense mode of lying his tits off whenever he's asked a question.Unfortunatly he's so obvious he tends to end up taking the fans for fools which many of us find hard to stomach.Frankly his behaviour is just plain weird.Maybe lying to the fans when he knows the real truth gives him a power trip.Isn't 6 million a year enough for him?

25. CD

    Apr 13, 2011, 15:55 #5089

    I agree with you Richard, it is style over substance today with (I am happy to always be second) Wenger. Sometimes you have to dig in and win ugly if you ultimately want to win trophies, and Wenger is more worried about the possibility of being accused of route one football than actually putting a trophy on the mantlepiece hence his ridiculous statement of being content with being second. @Puppyguts it's you that's the twat, because they may be unbeaten in the league for 14 games but six of those were draws of which teams like Wigan, Sunderland, WBA and Blackburn are included. I would argue a ruthless manager would have a further 8 points from those games alone, and just look at how the table would look if we had not drawn these games which effectively is the same as almost 3 defeats!!! @Rickthegooner you miss the point of the article, as had Wenger been more pragmatic we would have the Carling Cup in our trophy cabinet and have been in a better position in the league than we currently are for the reasons described above. We would also have got to the last 8 at least of CL because Wenger threw away first place by his selection of crap squad players during the latter stages of the group games, which is why we ended up playing Barca so early in the competition and hence got dumped out. Then our supposed "mentally strong" players went to pot for the next 3 drawn league games which is why we currently trail Man U in the league!!

26. Bk

    Apr 13, 2011, 15:42 #5088

    I second your post. 60 percent possession and losing is not as entertaining as a one nil even possesion win. A bit sad Wenger can't realise this. If he doesn't he is probably gonna be forced out at some point. As improbable as it is, it'll probably happen. People, however, forget that Arsenal was there before Wenger and it will still be there when he goes. He is not irreplaceable! He had better learn that pretty soon before he destroys his legacy.

27. Jimmy The Gooner of Norbury

    Apr 13, 2011, 15:38 #5087

    Oh look, the apologists are out in force. As for the likes of Rickthegooner (apparently) and others ask who we should get in. Well thats not our job but if it was, it would be for someone who will accept after 6 years of rubbish that they are wrong and will change what is needed to be changed. Thats probably who, anyone with working eyesight.

28. grrrrrrr

    Apr 13, 2011, 15:30 #5086

    Arsene, please mate, for the sake of the affection all fair minded gooners have for you. Sort your **** out this summer or please move on to another club. You're in danger of over staying your welcome if you keep up this arrogance towards supporters and also your tactical naievety. We are not a French club, and stop treating us like a poor club with no money and that you are some kind of miracle worker. Oh, thanks for the 4th spot mate, what a great guy you are for giving that to us, whilst banking your greedy 6 million per year salary. What a rip off for the fans. Hardly any signings as the club are so 'poor' but a huge ****ing great 6mil salary for our philanthropic manager we're so lucky to have. **** the CL money, under George Graham 4th spot was considered a poor season! we don't spend the money anyway so what difference does it make to us? Yes, I would swap an FA cup for CL football thank you, every year. I like winning FA cups, they're great fun to win and they stick in my mind and I get a lot more satisfaction from those memories then coming 4th to enter a competition we have very little chance of winning. When we get a manager now serious about us competing at the very top then it will be exciting to complete in the CL again. We almost pulled off a miracle in 2006 but we had better players and defenders then. Sorry for the rant gooners, and sorry if I've offended all the Arsene disciples out there. I do like the guy but I prefer Arsenal to Arsene. I remember Arsenal before him and I'll be going to watch the gunners long after he's gone.

29. Loyal since 1980

    Apr 13, 2011, 15:12 #5084

    Ranil, you say who do we bring in. Let me tell you something my friend, when GG was manager and won our first league title for 18 years, no one at that time could imagine an Arsenal without GG, he then won the title two years later and was literally given a lifetime contract, but then things changed, he went stale. What happenened, AW came and we could not believe that this was better than GG in his hayday, now AW is getting stale, he has too much power and his project is not working and the board are afraid of what will happen next. I don't want him to leave , but he has to change his outlook and acknowlegde that we are ARSENAL and we are a big club. We are not spurs! I think there are many supporters out there who think that the club would not survive witout AW, but beleive me there is a manager out there who is young and hungry and knows that he will be only be in a job if he win thorphies, not like AW who is so comfortable that he probalbly comes into work wearing a dressing gown and slippers!

30. Alastair Kerr

    Apr 13, 2011, 15:02 #5083

    Excellent article, Richard.Winning a match is what football fans love most,and there is no better feeling, if it can be won with panache and style all the better. I thought it was interesting listening to Rio Ferdinand yesterday discussing the champions league game vs Chelsea, when he said winning trophies is what Man Utd is about (or words to that effect)WINNING TROPHIES!!! Not just coontent with Champions League qualification or finishing 2nd. Wenger may be happy with finishing 2nd in the league for the next 20 years - that may be regarded as consistency but it is also consistently not being just good enough to win the premier league. Arsenal have some excellent players, and some not fit to wear the shirt, but what they don't have is a winning mentality - winning when the pressure is on (eg Carling Cup Final, Man.U (AWAY) in the league and F.A. Cup)If Wenger continues to massage their already over-inflated egos and makes excuses for their under-performing, then I'm afraid we'll always come up short. This summer will be a defining couple of months for Wenger, if he buys quality in the 2 or 3 positions we need and gets rid of the deadwood (Almunia, Bendtner, Denilson etc), then next year we might just finish first.

31. Jekyll

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:32 #5079

    Quite right. One of the most annoying things about Wenger is his attempts to redefine football: 'collective responsibility' over a leader, GK not an important position, defence not important, no proper striker, redefining what a 'trophy' is, possession stats more important than result, performance more important than result... it goes on and on. It's all arrogant self-indulgent nonsense. And when it fails and this is pointed out to him, he is outraged. Zero humility.

32. Jack

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:26 #5078

    Top stuff, well said. The football isn't even actually that good, it's slow and one paced and boring. I honestly prefer watching Barca, Madrid and ManU play. Way more exciting. Even Spuds play better football in fact!!! End of the day I want to win but, to win we need to get the Loser managing this club OUT. He's an arrogant tool who cares not for the fans, he's not fit to lace Fergie or Guardiola's boots! Overrated busted flush is AW.

33. puppyguts

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:21 #5077

    we're 14 games unbeaten, hav the best away record in the league and hav let in less goals than Utd. plus arsenal still hav a realistic chance to win the title considering Utd r stil in F.A and champs league. any1 who shares your views and wants wenger out is a twat. this is the time wen you should b supporting the team for the final push instead of posting ridiculas articles.

34. Rickthegooner

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:14 #5074

    Same old Same old !!!!!!!!! Yet another happy little camper !!!!!! Listen to yourself harping back to the " good old days " When it was 1-0 to the Arsenal. When opposing fans taunted us with boring boring Arsenal !!! We were hardly the dominating force of football then !!!! A couple of league titles between 72 and 96 is not that impressive !!!! What makes you think we are worse off now !!! you say you want Wenger out !! You do not say who you want in !!!! We are second in the league, we have been to a cup final, we got out of the group stages of the CL, we got knocked out by the best team in Europe, we got to the quater finals of the FA cup. The season has seen the development of players like Jack and Samir. It's not been a disaster of a season like Liverpool or Villa. We are still not quite there as a dominant force in English football, so your solution !!!!!!!!! Throw the baby out with the bath water !!!!!! Outstanding !!!!!! You are not the sharpest tool are you !!!!!!

35. DV

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:13 #5073

    He wants to win, he doesn't go about it the same as other teams as I think he wants a team that can compete in Europe as well as in the Premiership but the end goal is the same for him, the players and the fans, to win. It seems like that doesn't come across to a large swathe of supporters at the moment but if he was really happy with this I doubt he'd be stalking the touchline as a menace to every water bottle and look quite so annoyed when we lose but mantain posession and pass the ball about. There's no difference in attitude, the best reason to want Wenger out is failure to rectify the mental malaise that seems to inflict itself on us whenever we get close to winning something imo, rather than a lax attitude towards winning.

36. ranil

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:13 #5072

    ok, so wenger does leave who do we bring in that will do better job than him, wenger loves this club as much as us fans and sacking him will be the possible thing for this club. Yes this current set of players frustrate the life out of me at times, but i truly believe they could win the league this year. AND i believe arsenal went to west ham this year and completely dominated, played beautiful football and won 3-0.

37. James Wong

    Apr 13, 2011, 14:10 #5071

    It's the result that counts.Wenger is barking up the wrong tree with his free flowing football. The gunners may have 99.9% possession and 99 repeat ninety nine not nine shots at goall but if you lose or draw it aint good enough. Let me state that the top managers emphasise winning over style.IIf they can marry the two well and good. It may work in Spain where there are only one or two teams that can frustrate Barca. In England it's a different scenario.West ham can beat Liverpool and so on. If the red faced can play pretty soccer and win ,he would have done so but he knows the name of the game is winning. That's why I am glad the gunners lost in the cl and fa games. It would be too painful to watch them play endless passing and eye catching soccer without the end result.