Publish and Be Damned

Losing Arsene Wenger would be a backward step



Publish and Be Damned

Arsene – Should be allowed to see the job through


Once Nasri has finally been sold and the Fab/Nas media circus comes to a close, where will we be, despite all that I read in the press and on the On-line Gooner, I still believe in Arsene and know that he would have realised he would have lost two of his best three players and that he is virtually back to year zero in his rebuilding plans.

Whether we should sell Nasri or let him run his contract now no longer seems to be an issue. I think maybe Arsene wanted to hang on to him for one more year to provide some quality continuity while the likes Wilshere, Ramsey and Frimpong grow. It is a gamble that Stan and the board want to take as despite the money we will get for Nasri now, it puts in more jeopardy the £25 million dividend of a top four finish and Champions League football.

Whether Arsene will be allowed to identify transfer targets or whether Stan and Ivan will bank the money remains to be seen. Arsene and the policy of building around youth was agreed between Arsene and the board to help pave the way for the building of the new stadium. It is an agreement that most believe suited Arsene as I am sure his dream is to build the club in the direction of Ajax as was and Barcelona as it is now. It is a policy that we know hasn’t yet come to fruition, but he has reached three finals and provided a consistent top four finish which would have been deemed as success in the late 70s early 80s, but Arsene has raised his own bar too high. Redknapp on the other hand has had virtually three seasons at Spurs had pot loads of money spent on his squad, has won nothing, not even reached a final, but is treated like a God for finishing fourth once.

The problem is that we deified Arsene after the success he brought us and thus when things are not going according to plan he is vilified so much, but as Lee Dixon says Arsene is a winner and this failure hurts him as much as it hurts us. So don’t think sacking Arsene will necessarily bring us the success we all crave. The new manager will have to sign up to the same financial plan that Arsene (willingly) did six years ago, there won’t suddenly be £200 million spent on a Ronaldo or a Messi. Having said that we could and bring in a more defensive coach and he could drill the quality that we have and bring in some true soldiers to bore our way to some minor trophies but in this day and age of City, Chelsea and global branding that is as far as that policy will get. I must admit that I cried in 89 after such a long wait for a title and don’t get me wrong Graham was an excellent manager and despite his failings ultimately a good servant for the club, but having seen us win trophies the Arsene way I don’t want us to go back and neither do the TV companies from whom we derive so much revenue.

If you recall when we bought Nasri, Arsene was fighting to hang on to Hleb, it was an either or, either we could hang on to Hleb or have the money to buy Nasri, the way the club has set up it’s finances we couldn’t have both, I think Arsene would rather of had both, but given the choice he had he would have preferred to hang to Hleb as at the time he had more experience and was integrated into the team. Anyhow where is Hleb now? I don’t know, I don’t know whether Flamini is still with AC or whether he played a significant role in last season’s title, but when he first signed he hardly got a game, Adebayor is probably signing for Spurs, how the mighty have fallen. Arsene gets so much from his players and gets some of them to punch above their weight, maybe that is because he pays them slightly more than other clubs would; but probably the reasons are manifold as I am sure that Arsene has more than one string to his bow.

It is constantly said that some of the more senior players like and Song and Rosicky are not good enough, but Arsene talks about only buying when it will improve quality, given the financial strictures set by the club then selling Song and Rosicky will only mean that we could buy back players of comparable quality, unless of course we bought younger players with less experience, the very thing that Arsene is most vilified for, or older players with only a season left in them or else sell two players to buy one and run down the size of our squad further.

The answer then is that for real change you will not only have to force out Arsene, but Stan and the board too, once that was done you could then bring in someone like Usmanov. That will bring us loads of money, as I am sure there are many creative ways you can get round the financial fair play ruling. However this will turn us into another soulless cash rich playground like Chelsea or City, I personally would rather not have that, I am proud of how the club stands, but I am sure there are many who would relish that opportunity. The thing is, like we have the ‘Arsene experiment’ at Arsenal, Chelsea and City are experiments too, Chelsea is supposed to be self financing by now but isn’t, they spent £50m on Torres and won nothing last season. Perhaps by pumping enough money into these clubs they will develop such a large fan base they will become self supporting or maybe the owner’s money or interest will run out first, who knows as I say they are experiments still in their early stages, but whatever happens I want to be sure that my club lasts through my life time and I am not convinced that the Chelsea and City model will be sustainable. It may bring immediate success and it may distort the market so much that it makes it virtually impossible for more prudent clubs to acquire experienced quality players, but will it build foundations that last, that remains to be seen, although I am not ruling that out.

The Friday before Fabregas was sold Arsene was asked in a press conference, “Did he expect any players to be leaving the club today”, his answer was that he “Does not expect anyone to leave the club”, the gentleman of the press then said “Does that mean he is going to keep Fabregas”, Arsene’s answer meant if that is what you want to print that then go ahead knock yourself out, but the truth is Arsene doesn’t expect any player to leave this club, he believes Arsenal is the best club in the world, he turned down Real Madrid to stay with us, he loves the club and works hard for it. Because he tows the company line and doesn’t malign his bosses or runs down his staff in public does that make him arrogant or just professional? I don’t agree with everything he does he is not superhuman and the club is not unimpeachable, we should stand up and complain about ticket price rises without investment in the squad and we should encourage him and Ivan to perhaps pay over the odds for players such as Jagielka one that he himself has identified and that we need so much and we should be asking what all these miscellaneous expenses are on the balance sheet, but Arsene himself is an excellent manager, he has class, dignity and erudition and he is very loyal to this club. If you really want to get rid of Arsene then you will also need a major shake up of the board and the ownership, those who balance the books and assign the transfer and wage budgets. Arsene is just following the policy that he has signed up to with the board and any new coach will also have to sign up to that policy too. We will then see the new manager having to say all the same things in press conferences that Arsene does, but probably with a lot less eloquence.

Reading the submissions to the On-line Gooner I am in the minority and nine times out of the ten the majority is right, but in this I will not be swayed by the majority, I will be keeping faith with Arsene and as he asks I will be showing my love, attending as many games as I can and cheering on Wilshere, Ramsey, Frimpong, Gibbs, Chamberlain, Campbell, Miyaichi, Szczensy, Afobe, Lansbury, Jenkinson, Ebecilio and Miquel as well as the few senior players that we have left as we start another year zero.


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64
comments

  1. Ron

    Aug 22, 2011, 21:21 #11635

    The arguments for and against Arsene are now all exhausted after so many months, years even, debating them Good article by the way. Isnt it the case though that most straight thinking Gunners fans just want Arsene to remain with us, but to recognise his mistaken faith in certain players and to replace them, not by expecting Man C type cash flow to do it, but to buy solid and consistent performers to replace the flaky crew that we ve endured for far too long. Its this simple isnt it guys? I hit at Arsene as much as anybosy else. Some days i could positively wring his neck, but sack him? Absolutely not. If he decides to go then fair enough, but sacking the guy would besmirch our Club more than any hopeless dud hes brought in over the last few years ever could.

  2. Graham Yates

    Aug 22, 2011, 12:16 #11588

    He is only here till 2013, so thats surely not enought ime to see the job through from this point of year zero. He will never quit but lets hope that come end of 2012-2013 season the contract is not offered as quickly as past ones. AW has got to earn it and the board must grow some.

  3. Ron

    Aug 22, 2011, 9:30 #11582

    Most fans want Mr Wenger to succeed, but to do so needs to vary or change his approach a bit.Its not rocket science.

  4. Robert Exley

    Aug 22, 2011, 8:59 #11581

    As I've said before, losing Wenger would be a backward step if the right replacement wasn't brought in. But I think it's hard not to levy any blame to Wenger for the current scenerio, to do so would be defending the indefensible. I'm beginning to think that the 125 on the shirts are commemorating how many passes it takes before someone gets the idea to shoot - and he hasn't even touched on the defensive problem. It doesn't matter what you save financially if you're profligate on the pitch. It's also a false economy to skimp on investing in the squad if you fall out of the champions league and loose more in income than you saved in expenditure.

  5. Big Dunk

    Aug 22, 2011, 8:12 #11580

    Great article. I'm with you - look at the consistent high standards (albeit minus silverware) he has delivered while clearly financially hamstrung. The moaners want AW out, but never suggest a suitable replacement. They are typical of the opinion of today that wants success but doesn't know how to get it, they believe if you want something you just go and buy it. If the board sack AW and we don't win anything they'll moan again. He isn't perfect but his myopia is brilliant - he never criticises the team in public (how would you like your boss to moan about you to everyone??), he believes in what he's doing (somewhat blinkerdly) and I think the saying 'you don't know what you've got til it's gone' is very apt. Yes, he needs to spend to suppliment the squad but things really arent that bad.

  6. Expat Clockender

    Aug 21, 2011, 20:05 #11569

    Excellent article - thanks very much. Liddle in the Sunday Times today also (for a change) makes sensible reading of the current situation. Watching yesterday's match made me realise it is time now to stand together as fans, get behind the team and manager, and prove to the parochial, **** stirring, biased media that we are the Arsenal and we are the best, we are the Arsenal so F*** all the rest!

  7. goonerboy

    Aug 21, 2011, 18:26 #11562

    Well written blog I fully agree with you about Wenger. He is the man who can get Arsenal back on track. The media are acting like a bunch of bully boys, if you can remember when you were at school, where the bullies taunt the weak and feeble little boy.The media should be ashamed of themselves,I dont mind the criticism as long it is constructive. Now is the time to support the lads, not a load of abuse.

  8. johnnyh

    Aug 21, 2011, 15:54 #11558

    absolute nonsense.there was life at arsenal before wenger and the club will survive long after he is gone.every manager has his expiry date. the sooner he goes the better in my opinion,as he is in danger of sullying his reputation among fans.

  9. Gunner4life

    Aug 21, 2011, 14:38 #11555

    Since the Carling cup final we have amassed the miserable sum of 13points out of the last 39 and you think no other manager can do better. Your having a laugh! time for fresh ideas new coaching staff and a manager who is not scared to spend a few bob, and no im not talking doing a man city and spending 200 million. The club is hardly going to go into financial ruin spending 30-40 million especially one that allegedly charges the highest prices for tickets and one that makes huge profit on selling their best players.

  10. Steadfast

    Aug 21, 2011, 11:59 #11543

    I agree with the article and somehow have this niggling feeling that more than AW, it is the board which is more responsible for the sorry state of affairs at the club. Wenger has a shoestring budget and most of the money is pocketed by the board who are running the club like a cruel, heartless business machine. 'In Arsene We Still Trust' but the board need to undergo a major overhaul. Current american board members have hardly ever shown their love for 'Soccer' and there is no doubt about that.

  11. Nick

    Aug 21, 2011, 11:24 #11532

    He hasnt needed to spend mega money we could have had Given or friedel or sorenson or parker or adam and none of those would have broken the bank or the wage structure we could have had Samba or Dann or jagielka again wouldnt have cost mega money ok a mata or a hazzard would have cost around 25mill each but with the sale of cesc and others they would have been self financing and he could still have afforded the kids hes brought in also his tactics of late and the way he consistently plays people out of position is maddening also persisting with players that are so off form that their liabilities is infuriating im sorry arsene but youve lost the plot

  12. Ramgun

    Aug 21, 2011, 10:58 #11531

    What has all the stuff in the article got to do with making awful decisions and stubbornly refusing to ever admit a mistake. Almunia has been an Arsenal goalkeeper for SEVEN years! Ferguson makes mistakes (Taibi, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba) but quickly recognises them and parcels them up and kicks them out. The astonishingly arrogant Wenger will never admit an error. I wonder how much money we have spent on transfers and wages on Almunia, Diaby, Denilson, Squillaci etc... I have never worked even half a day in football and yet I knew 7 years ago that Almunia wasn't good enough. I reckon most supporters knew. Why didn't a man on a basic salary of £6.7 million a year know?

  13. Bai

    Aug 21, 2011, 10:22 #11530

    I agree with Andy's comments. We fans are fooled and made idiots really. I guess it's never about Arsenal winning titles the way fans always expects. Can't we see, Arsenal are being run to the course that shareholders desires; to maximize their share values and make them richer. Arsene Wenger is more of an economist in than a manager in his Arsenal role. That's why he is being so handsomely paid regardless of Arsenal's failure to win trophies. Some words are accidently spilt though; like "i'd subscribe to 2nd place for 20 years", "we should appreciate more (for being in 4th place)etc. etc..fans ought to be sharp enough to take these words into its ****-but-actual context; the shareholders' aspiration to make themselves richer. It's bitter when you come to think of how fans are being financially squeezed in order to push these aspirations further (regardless of how the board justifies the price increase). I hope more fans would wake up to the fact that Arsenal are actually being run as a business for the owners, not as a football club for the fans (the clients actually) who being more and more neglected and taken advantage off.

  14. West

    Aug 21, 2011, 9:57 #11527

    I agree with virtually everything you said. It's fine for others to be critical but do it with respect! The bullying nature of some posts is (in my opinion) very disappointing from Arsenal's support. Has any of these contributors thought about how the negativity they are spreading is affecting the effectivness of the team? Get behind your side Arsenal!

  15. Avenell Rd

    Aug 21, 2011, 9:21 #11526

    We've been hitting relegation form for past five months under Wenger. How long will it be allowed to continue? Until we get relegated?

  16. truthhurts

    Aug 21, 2011, 9:20 #11525

    Great insights. At least we still have fans with perspective. It saddens me when guys like Gary Neville can see what some fellows gunners are not seeing or just refuse to see. Tyranny of the minority indeed!!! Supporters support their club.

  17. Aj

    Aug 21, 2011, 8:15 #11524

    I agree with your comment on Redknapp but you have to admit Wenger looks a broken man.It's like he's finally realised that his strategy hasn't worked.He didn't need to spend a fortune.All he needed was to add 1 or 2 players defensively but now he needs to totally rebuild and he's not up to it.It's all gone too far now and he has to go.

  18. Jenari Exar Kun

    Aug 21, 2011, 2:48 #11523

    Losing Arsene would be a backward step!!!! do me a favour 1 point from the first two games with Utd coming up, who lets face it are licking their lips at 3 easy points and Udinese who will be fancying their chancing of getting into the group stages!!! Arsene must go and go now - sell Nasri and pay Wenger off with the proceeds!!!

  19. k eloquence

    Aug 21, 2011, 0:27 #11522

    At last! A piece which speaks some sense. We need to support Wenger and our club. We've not been let down by Wenger but by those players he had faith in and showed no loyalty eg Hleb, Flamini, Adebayor etc. We now need to show that loyalty by getting behind those that do want to play and care about the club. Without Wenger we would be much worse off.

  20. Joe S.

    Aug 21, 2011, 0:24 #11521

    Ah the voive of reason, but sorry there are too many excuses and not enough accountability in this apology. Project Wegner is a shambles and the team is now going to have to spend the remainder of the season getting out of this hole and consoldating. Its literally three strps back regarding where the team was four tears ago with no positive drvrelopments in sight. Everyone in the football world knows this. The players Paul tries to defend are simply not good enough, both in terms of skill as well as character. Wegner and his board also do not need to be defended. There is a sense that other than the best interests of the club, they are also skimming and scamming for their own personal gain.Eveything that comes out of their mouths at the moment sounds dodgy and self complacent as though they are dealing with a group of idiots when it comes to addressing fans concerns. Listen to Wegner going on about Nasri recently, " He loves this club " how can we take such clap trap seriously when it is so obvious that he is a self interested mercenary like so many of the french players. I don't think Wegner has the mental toughness to get out of this mess and this is only the start of something painful, as much as we'd like to dream that the club can rise from this crises like a pheonix. The real worries now may be that the promising players mentioned above will not get their opportunities if the club goes into panic mode and they start bringing in stop gap players to fill temporary holes. Not good enough. This is all the result of bad policy and setting one's goals too low.

  21. Danny

    Aug 20, 2011, 23:58 #11520

    if wenger went to citeh , he will win nothing. why, because is is a coward of a coach, and only bys kids and be fired in 6 months he should have been gone 3 yrs ago. he is a coach of arsenal not the CEO, and should not worry about finances. he should be accountable to WIN, WIN and nothing buT win games and trophys. he should be fired !!!!!!!!!!!

  22. NC

    Aug 20, 2011, 22:23 #11519

    Arsene is a great servant for the club, when he could easily have fecked off to a so-called bigger club many years ago. He has done great things for the club and we should always stick by him. People screaming for his departure have absolutely no serious strategy for bringing the club forward. Sacking Arsene would weaken us even more.

  23. gooner4life

    Aug 20, 2011, 21:51 #11516

    arsene wenger going....are u mad....does anyone remember bruce rioche....remember we did beat barca once last year....why is everyone so negative....cesc was loyal,but trust me....his best days have been and gone...

  24. Justin

    Aug 20, 2011, 21:39 #11515

    well bloody said. Amazing achievements under the circumstances. Our fan base is becoming very fickle as of late.

  25. 2012 The End is Nigh aka Das Boot

    Aug 20, 2011, 21:16 #11514

    Yes that's right, another rant! Better than more hagiographies, and idiosyncratic eulogising. I see many comments in support of OGL, in advance of today's result. Wrong boys. Look, Wenger is presiding over a f**k**g shambles. The gods have got it in for him. We have started how we mean to go on. It is a continuous folly! Red cards, yet more injuries, being struck by lightning; more hari kiri goals conceded. Patchwork team, too many 'babes in the wood'. It may surprise some of Arsenal's fans that the majority now feel the club is in decline. The signs are there, and very ominous they are indeed. The general concensus is that an away defeat in Europe is now very likely. This would imply that Wenger's mainstay of Champions league qualification is history; allied to all the other historical successes. The man is a busted flush, and has lost his raison d'etre. He cannot motivate his players, he cannot, or won't discipline them. He hasn't got the bo***cks in the market to go for it like other managers. He prefers safety instead. Arsenal football club is paying the price. By the way, i've followed them since '74. I take no joy in my views, but i'm a realist. We will not win another trophy with the current overseers. Oh, and he may get it right, and then all the 'loyalists will say we were right. Well for a long while now you're all left!Yes, WENGER, IVAN THE TERRIBLE, PAT RICE OUT, in fact ***k the board too get it!

  26. SLG

    Aug 20, 2011, 19:42 #11513

    I am actually beginning to start feeling sorry for wenger he cuts an aged, agitated, depressed figure every time he is interviewed. What ever happened to that cool, composed professor that we once new.

  27. Warren

    Aug 20, 2011, 19:16 #11512

    Tell the Liverpool fans that sacking their manager and replacing him with someone else is a bad thing.And remember Benitez won more trophies since Wenger last did.This myth that Wenger is irreplaceable is rubbish.Our club has gone stale.Average players.Same tippy tappy no end product tactics.Wenger has to be removed and replaced by someone with new ideas

  28. Vinnie

    Aug 20, 2011, 18:15 #11511

    People keep talking about "must buy a quality CB/GK/Forward/Defensive Midfielder" without mentioning where the magic great-undiscovered-footballers-that-don't-want-to-benchwarm-at-Utd/City/Chelsea shop is.

  29. ppp

    Aug 20, 2011, 18:07 #11510

    Good to hear from the real supporters instead of the eggs. excellent.

  30. Mike Stride

    Aug 20, 2011, 17:30 #11509

    What utter trash. I've supported arsenal for 33 years and today I wasn't disappointed we lost 2-0 because Wenger has lowered expectations to this pathetic level. The guy is ruining the club AND the young players coming through and the people backing him are like some romantic lover convinced their partner will change when everyone can see they've lost it. What will it take for people to see the guy is finished and we are on an awful decline?!

  31. Blunder of you

    Aug 20, 2011, 17:21 #11508

    wenger has become a liar and a fraud and an ideal manager for the board and new owner to carry out the master plan and if you idiots out there still think that plan has anything to do with big signings and trophies then you deserve the suprise that you are going to get for not listening to people who know better who on this blog have been trying to explain to you what is really going on at arsenal. it will all end in tears and you were told back in Feb. why Feb ? thats when it finally became crystal clear to smart people that trophies no longer mattered to todays arsenal. wise up people !

  32. LeedsLad

    Aug 20, 2011, 17:18 #11507

    Been watching the Arsenal - Liverpool game and it was sad. the team couldn't even string more that five passes, no triangle passing system, On the same note, i watched Spurs during the week on Europa and they seemed to be more creative and passing better than us ( i still think they're scum !!). AW has been good for us but the thing is that teams seem to improve defensively and offensively every year-Arsen seems to think he has a strong enough squad, which is the opposite to what we see on the pitch..this man has been given one too many chances..and he need to GO like yesterday.

  33. Dave the Realist

    Aug 20, 2011, 17:00 #11506

    Arsenal 0 Liverpool 2.2 games no goals.3 shots on target.Everything is great.See all you AKB's at the town hall in may

  34. Mark

    Aug 20, 2011, 16:48 #11505

    Sorry but those in the AKB camp are wrong. Our indifferent start ( I'm being kind) should send alarm bells ringing . Failure to change things early will mean serious problems later...mid table finish and no CL . it's nothing to do with wenger but rather salvaging the club.

  35. Bob

    Aug 20, 2011, 15:11 #11503

    Arsene Wenger was exactly the right man to take the Club forward when he was appointed. But the game has changed, probably irrevocably, and he has not been able to adapt to the change. I am not expecting him to be able to compete with Man City or Chelsea in the transfer market. The team who beat us today, Liverpool, are a much more reasonable benchmark. They have bought established, experienced, top quality players and as a result are far stronger than we are now. Wenger has allowed the squad to stagnate, and the continual loop of buying promising youngsters who either do not fulfill their potential or are sold on at 23/24 so that they fulfill it elsewhere is never going to provide us with success. Sorry, Arsene has had more than enough chances to rip it up and start again. However great his earlier achievements, it really is now time for a change.

  36. au revoir wenger

    Aug 20, 2011, 14:53 #11502

    just watched the liverpool game,surely there can be no doubt now that this idiot of a manager should be booted straight out the door

  37. Chelea Fan

    Aug 20, 2011, 12:43 #11501

    Great Article .. AW haters should read this and ponder that, do they love a club or its trophy cabinet ? But i don't agree with the soulless comments about the Bridge or City, in order to put your point , you should not malign others.

  38. Dan h

    Aug 20, 2011, 11:26 #11500

    Well written Paul the problem is a lot of us don't trust the mixed messages coming out of the club.The squad is paper thin we are told every year the squad will be strengthened & money is available it just doesn't happen does it?If a club our size & turnover is unwilling to invest a reasonable amount in the playing side the abuse that will come there way this season is understandable.AW as the manager will obviously come into the firing line as everyone is under the impression that he decides player sales & purchases.If the club won't back him or provide him with the required funds all i can say is he is being set up as the fall guy all be it a very well paid one!!It really doesn't make any sense what has happened this close season so far & whichever side of the fence you sit on we all want the best for Arsenal do the board?I don't think so.

  39. fozzy's mate

    Aug 20, 2011, 11:24 #11499

    Cam I agree that all opinions should be respected but it is an example of the polarised opinion re wenger that the last few years has created. The seeds of discontent were sown when having been asked reasonable questions at an agm a few years ago when the worrying trend of us becoming a selling an not replenishing club had just begun, wenger and the old fart/etonian reacted with breathtaking arrogance in basically telling the fans and shareholders to f off. This was echoed in his recent "half a day in football rant". The club and I blame hill wood who I loathe with a passion tried to create a wenger is god and cannot be criticised culture and saw him as their golden goose. His arrogance rose dramatically and he was surrounded by yes men the latest being Gazidis. Pat Rice is a non entity as shown by the embarrassing display of him peering up towards Arsene constantly. AW needs a counter balance and I agree this was provided by Dein. As for Hill Wood and Kronke the only balance they are worried about is the bank balance and how to balance their stacks of cash. Hill wood is stuck in a time that earth forgot and as chairman runs a club with one of the largest turnovers and cash reserves in the world like a mid table regional concern who have to sell their best players to survive.

  40. One Arsene Wenger

    Aug 20, 2011, 11:15 #11498

    Great article. I feel like we are the minority but it's the people with extreme views that get heard. Arsene has the nous to realise that by following the other clubs and spending money we will not succeed, other teams have infinite pockets. Never play poker with a billionaire, he has nothing to lose no matter what cards you have. With a little bit of tweaking and additions we will succeed. The grass is always greener on the other side, be careful what you wish for!

  41. GoonerGoal!

    Aug 20, 2011, 11:00 #11496

    @Andrew Cohen gets it! Football lightweight Gazidis must go, and football expert David Dein has to be put back in charge of the club to once again work in concert with Arsene Wenger. The club has been on a downward spiral almost from the moment Dein was disgracefuuly dismissed for trying to introduce new money in the form of Stan Kroenke to the board. Said Kronke needs to be told... "WE NEED DEIN!" "WE NEED DEIN!" "WE NEED DEIN!"

  42. Cam

    Aug 20, 2011, 10:49 #11495

    Arsene Apologist: "Let me tell you what a backward step would be: continuing to have idiotic, know-nothing, apologetic clueless Wenger-loving rent boy sheep like you" Is it possible to disagree with pro keeping Wenger's fans and still show some manners and courtesy? How does this kind of foul mouthed "comment" pass the moderators? I was on the fence for a while, but seeing the abusiveness classlessness of the "Wenger out" brigade on this site has made me much more sympathetic to Wenger, if for no other reason than not having to align myself with the foulmouthed abuse coming from these fans.

  43. PerryG

    Aug 20, 2011, 10:41 #11494

    I agree with CD/fozzy's mate, he has neglected the obvious flaws for far too long. It makes me think that he cant see them and if he had, then Cesc and Nasri would be staying with us as part of a successful team. We will never win another trophy under Wenger. If he loves the club like he professes then he should do the decent thing and move aside

  44. fozzy's mate

    Aug 20, 2011, 10:08 #11493

    Paul I admire your attempt to defend Arsene who as is demonstrated by the comments below has totally polarised opinion over the last few seasons. However I feel that having to start from ground zero again is the inevitable consequence of refusing to add what was needed so clearly over the last few years. Personally as a season ticket holder for 25 years I find his current stance indefensible. Clearly even if he had less money in recent years there is plenty now and to say you won't spend it on filling the holes as you see no value in the market is not good enough. He doesn't set the market conditions but has to survive within them. Personally I think selling Cesc and Nasri is plain wrong. Not for commercial reasons but because they will not be replaced. In my opinion we will end outside the top 4 this season and it is on a knife edge as to whether we get past Udinese. This is the weakest squad in memory whne we are in a self proclaimed fantastic financial position. Whilst personally I see nothing wrong with fabulously wealthy businessman dipping in instead of sucking cash out, I think we should spend what we have available. If not a period in the wildernous is what I fear. If Arsene has the courage to identify and buy the players we need even if he thinks they are over priced I would love him to stay. If not we need to move on with someone that will. Arsene is not the club we the fans are people forget that. While a part of its history and a legend to boot if he is not the right person to take us forward with a heavy heart we must say goodbye.

  45. Gooner S

    Aug 20, 2011, 10:08 #11492

    Arsene Apologist - Why do you have to be abusive just to get your point across? And why on earth the Gooner publishes such posts is beyond me.

  46. Andrew Cohen

    Aug 20, 2011, 10:05 #11491

    Jekyll and CD have provided the rational (and polite)answer to those who still consider Mr Wenger a viable option. Interestingly, David Dein will appear on Football Focus today to make a plea for the continuation of his old friend in the job. That means that for the first time, Mr Wenger is feeling the pressure of imminent dismissal. We will see what he is made of in the next two weeks. In my view he is at a point where he actually cannot get out of the mess he has made himself. Be that as it may, what I would like to happen is for David Dein to be put back in charge of the club. Let's then see whether he would be able to steer Mr Wenger in the right direction, or whether he would find him unworkable, as many of us already do. The Board's expulsion of DD was a disaster.

  47. Sam

    Aug 20, 2011, 9:58 #11490

    I think it's muddled thinking to say we can either continue to put up with Arsene and his stubborn insistence on 'bringing through youth' or we can go the way of Usmanov. There's plenty room in the middle for a good manager/coach to bring in decent experienced players and mix them with the best of the youth while not spending £100s of mills. There are a lot of good coaches around - just look in Germany for example. German sides have great technical qualities and play attacking football and they aren't on Man City et al's budget. Arsene is trying to make himself irreplaceable, which bothers me greatly as no manager should be allowed to mould a whole club's fortunes to his own personal agenda. Besides, it's a fallacy that he's brought through umpteen youngsters who have turned into world class players as he hasn't. A lot of them, if not most, have proved not good enough. This often happens when you take a punt on players who are only 17. Sir Alex has a far better record with bringing through youngsters (and far better coaching methods). Fact: Arsenal are going backwards - we are now worse than we were during the worst of the budget restrictions imposed by the new stadium.

  48. Gooner S

    Aug 20, 2011, 8:34 #11489

    The best post on the Gooner for months. Thank you. You are not in the minority but your are pitting your views against a very vocal (written and verbal) section of Arsenal's fan base - who are of course entitled to their views. I do wonder how many of them have only really known Arsene Wenger as an Arsenal manager? Not that that means they can't have a valid opinion but it does mean that, in the main, their experiences are somewhat different from those of us who were supporting the club from earlier times. Prior to Arsene Wenger, we have to go back to Herbert Chapman's era to see an Arsenal side that has been so consistently good in the league over a long number of years. Of course most Arsenal fans are frustrated, we really could have and should have won the league twice in the last 4 years or so. The fact that we have remained competitve has almost worked against the club as the expectations of the fan base remain high. Yes, we have money now but not the sort of money to compete with Manchester City or Chelsea as there is still considerable debt to pay off. This is fact. We will be buying and adding to the squad, of that I'm sure. The club really does need our support now, I agree with david Dein and Arsene Wenger in that respect, starting with today's game against Liverpool. We will have a really young side today and we really shouldn't get on their backs if things don't go for us because we have Udinese next week and that would be very counter productive.

  49. au revoir wenger

    Aug 20, 2011, 8:22 #11488

    Wenger has no respect for the fans he lies every time he moves his lips .How can you trust such a man?

  50. Pat

    Aug 20, 2011, 8:08 #11487

    Good Article. I am sure you will get lynched by the AMG brigade. Arsene is fallible but the man to lead us to glory again. I for one am looking forward to the first game of the season and will be cheering the team on.Perhaps we will see some passion and hunger from the younger players today.

  51. CD

    Aug 20, 2011, 7:33 #11485

    Most Gooners want to still believe in Wenger like you do Paul, but actions speak louder than words. We have never wanted Arsene to go mad in the transfer market ala Chelsea and Man City, but just to have added two or three final pieces to the jigsaw for over 4/5 years now. If he had acquired a quality goal keeper, a commanding no nonsense centre back, and a rotweiler of a holding midfielder 4/5 years ago which need not have cost the earth, I am conviced we would have crossed the finishing line on numerous occasions. Instead we have had players like Almunia/Fabianski, Sylvestre/Squilachi, Denilson/Diaby who have all contributed one way or another to our regular failures. The problem now is we have further problem areas following Fabregas's and probable Nasri's departures and hence from only being 3 players from a potential all conquering team we are now probably 5/6. I accept the goal keeping position is now finally sorted (by accident), but we now have big question marks at left back and up front when RVP no doubt will get injured. It's this that has ultimately cost Wenger our trust, as had he addressed the blatantly obvious 4/5 years ago, none of us would have been pulling our hair out with him today. At the end of the day we have all been incredibly patient with Wenger, but speaking for myself enough is enough as clearly Wenger is always going to be lacking 3/4 players coupled with his obsession for youth/penny pinching, surrounding himself with yes men, being tactically inept with an inability to change things when things are clearly not working, other than to bring Bendtner on after 75 mins and put him on the wing?!?! To sumarize we all want the old Wenger back and the clamour to oust him would never ever have surfaced had he remained, but sadly he has long gone, and the game has moved on and he has not, and he is now simply out of touch with reality. I genuinely wish I could still believe like you do Paul, but the evidence these last few years available to me over rules my heart.

  52. Don't fear

    Aug 20, 2011, 4:56 #11482

    The best piece I've read on arsenal in years. You're not in the minority mate, just the newsnow minority. Any supporter worth calling one would agree with you. If people want change to align ourselves with City, Chelsea etc then its the ownership that needs addressing. What I can't understand about those anti Wenger is how they don't see this. If Wenger has been so successful on a shoestring, imagine him with a City-style resource. We'd win the lot, year in year out. It really does beggar belief. A minority of fickle, clueless, glory-hunters may chase away the single most important individual in our great club's history. If sugar daddy's are here to stay and FFP doesn't work then we already have Usmanov (wealthier than Roman) in place and willing to splash the cash. Perhaps then people will view Dein in a different light foe getting him on board and acknowledge his foresight. Or FFP works and we're postioned better than most. Arsenal are far from in crisis. We've hedged out bets brilliantly and I'm amazed people are so blind.

  53. jiten Heer

    Aug 20, 2011, 3:19 #11480

    fellow gooner, i see all your points, i for one,am happy with our constant top four finish, hell, we were even in the title race, for the last two years, and 2007-8, where i still have not got over the way we ended it. but i pick up on everything you say, all of it is spot on. but with regards to the hleb situation, i dont think he should have been allowed to leave, samir nasri coming in the following summer, was a great buy, but we could have atleast offloaded a few other players, im gonna list the scapegoats, but bendtner? diaby? rosicky? all on the pay at arsenal, i guess contracts mean a lot, but these guys, getting paid? every year? for injury plagued seasons? If anything, arsenal should have kept hleb, offered flamini an improved contract,instead of adebayors 80,000 week wage! and signed nasri, oh boy what a season 2008-9 could have been! instead, a top four finish. No complaints, but another year, wasted for cesc fabregas, the boy played his heart out for us, made goals, made chances, i didnt want him to leave, but he did, i can understand his frustration, now we build our team again. Defensively, im not sure whether wengger could afford a top class centre back, but i fail to see, why he places such trust inept backups, last seasons pairing of koscielny and djourou, was good, where was the backup? ok vermaelen had been injured, but silvestre the 2 seasons before? The last time we had a stable cb partnership, was the beginning half of 2007-8, kolo toure and william Gallas, its been a long time. I see better times ahead, perhaps when wilshere and ramsey start bossing that midfield, i just pray, they dont suffer as many heartbreaks as cesc did, please wenger, buy some experience, dont break the bank! but put a soldier in there, at the back! and our new goalkeeper, is looking good!!! szczensy!! good times are ahead, if Wenger, just gets a little here and there!!! LOVE THE ARSENAL!!!!!!

  54. Jekyll

    Aug 20, 2011, 2:40 #11478

    Guess some people, like Wenger, prefer to have success as a distant object shimmering on the horizon than in the here and now. Despite having less cash than Man City et al, there are so many simple, obvious things Wenger could do to improve our lot that he refuses to do. Like drill the defence. Like buy a decent CB and a couple of other experienced players (not £50m players) with all that cash that's been banked and continues to be banked. Like stop overpaying potential so we can compete for the better players. He doesn't do these things because he likes developing players. AFC is not the place for this endless loop we're in, but that's how it'll remain until he goes because that's what he enjoys.

  55. win AFC

    Aug 20, 2011, 2:22 #11477

    ARSENE cant last forever new blood now TONY ADAMS? after all he was mr ARSENAL he will always put the club first no matter what happens, and he will buy the right players mature estublished and not somebody who is so young who would be better in the reserves. BYE BYE MR WENGER....

  56. Jim

    Aug 20, 2011, 1:55 #11476

    Keeping Wenger is a backward step. That is a fact that has been proved year after year, 6 years and counting. Continuing with Wenger only leads us further down a spiral path. Losing Wenger surely will result in crisis initially, no doubt. But we will rise from that, given our history and financial strength (being the third most valuable club in the world).

  57. IanWrightWrightWright

    Aug 20, 2011, 1:29 #11474

    Excellent piece! The situation is not ideal, but what does our team need now, more than ever? Our passion, encouragement and support! C'mon guys! AW aint perfect, but he is the best manager we've ever had and losing him would be the biggest mistake ever! We would face exactly what above listed former players have! We would find out the grass isn't always greener and that you should be careful what you wish for as it might come true!

  58. Ed Levey

    Aug 20, 2011, 1:05 #11472

    Well said, I couldn't agree more. Reading the press there is a witchhunt going on and I was beginning to think I was the only one left who appreciates what has been achieved. Is there any other manager in the premiership who could have signed up to the financial constraints in order to facilitate the building and financing of the stadium whilst continuing to deliver champions league football every year playing a style the envy of all.Will the next manager deliver the same style, the quality of youth? Whoever succeeds Arsene will still have to compete with the City Oil Money and I don't imagine they will be able to outspend them so this has to be way forward.

  59. Andy

    Aug 20, 2011, 1:00 #11471

    Actually one of the major reasons for moving to the new stadium was so that we could financially compete with other teams. Arsenal supported the model of investing in youth to support the move while remaining competitive. Now the club/Wenger has decided that we're going to have a self-sustaining model where we buy young, cheap players and sell them at a profit. Fans are angry because year after year, we can all see through the cracks and yet nothing is done. We've been so close to winning, it would only have taken a experienced players of to steady the ship. But instead nothing was done, we still had a poor goalkeeper, poor defenders, no decent forwards. Its no long about winning trophies, it about addressing issues within the squad, stop paying excessive wages to kids who have achieved nothing, etc. etc Look at the current squad. It looks like a reserve team. Arsenal has become nothing but a training ground for young players. If you want a good footballing education come to the school of Arsenal, then head to a big club that wins trophies. Do you honestly believe that Cesc or Nasri would have left so easily if they were wining trophies? Wenger's specialty is nurturing young/unknown players into established stars. Wenger has also made Arsenal in to a 'big' club. The problem is that he is NOT big enough to manage Arsenal. Not big enough to take us to the next level

  60. GoonerGoal!

    Aug 20, 2011, 0:58 #11470

    The policy of building around youth was agreed between Arsene Wenger and the board “to help pave the way for the building of the new stadium”? In case anyone hadn’t noticed, it’s built! A new manager will have to sign up to the same financial plan that Wenger did six years ago? Why? A new manager may not suddenly spend £200 million on a Ronaldo or a Messi, but maybe he would be prepared to spend the often spoken about pre-existing £50million “war chest”, plus the money from the Clichy/Fabregas/Eboue/Nasri sales. I make that more than £100 million! Yes, we could bring in a coach prepared to bring in a couple of true soldiers to gain us some success, and as for the TV companies from whom we derive so much revenue, I didn’t notice them avoiding Moreno’s Chelsea, did you?? There really could be life after Wenger! BTW, Associazione Calcio Milan, are commonly referred to as AC Milan or Milan, but never AC. Oh, and Blackburn are waiting to hear back from us about whether we are willing to sell Henri Lansbury.

  61. PTangYangKipperBang

    Aug 20, 2011, 0:53 #11467

    Actually, I think you speak for the majority. Sadly, the minority has the biggest mouth.

  62. bazza

    Aug 20, 2011, 0:41 #11466

    ive suport arsenal for 55years not just agood time charlie and what you say is spot on arsene can only spend what he is given and it must be on resalable players charlie nicolas said on sky last saturday for the last 4 years the board have said arsene as money to spend but charlie said he new for certain that the amount they said was wrong and he as been trying to run the club on a shoe string

  63. The BearMan

    Aug 20, 2011, 0:36 #11465

    The problem with Wenger, he has these grand ideas of a new system, but he does not have what it takes to pull it off. Unless he strengthen his squad expect a continous revolving door in the medic room. What an awful sacrifice to attempt to prove a point.

  64. Harry

    Aug 20, 2011, 0:31 #11464

    Great article.......I am in the minority too, I dread the power of the fanbase and them causing our club damage by forcing out the boss........