The Greeks have a word for it…

Online Ed: And so do I - shambles



The Greeks have a word for it…

The Ox: Solitary shining beacon in a sea of mediocrity


Well if you could choose one game to lose between now and the end of the season, it would be last night’s one in Athens. The only thing that brings any relief is the fact that the group result was not contaminated by Arsene Wenger’s decision to treat this game as a workout for some fringe players. Imagine if Dortmund had won 4-0 or Marseille had gained only a draw and then caught the highlights of Arsenal’s game.

A mixture of too many passengers and incompetents meant that the only thing we learned from this debacle is that the back-up – with the notable exception of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain – are not exactly chomping at the bit for first team consideration. Andrey Arshavin’s already saving himself for the Euros next June and his lack of commitment is horrible to witness. He just doesn’t care.

Early on, Arsenal pumped a few balls up to Marouane Chamakh and it was a tactic that needed to continue, as Olymiacos’ pressing game was not giving the defence a moment’s respite. However, the visitors reverted to doing what they know best, except they didn’t expect the Greeks to be quite so in your face in Arsenal’s own half. Wenger’s famed possession game crumbled into nothing as the pressure led to numerous chances as the Gunners pretty much wilted in the face of adversity. The midfield had real problems getting any kind of a foothold on the game, and considering the respective workrate, ability and experience of the trio in front of them, no wonder.

The counter of this high pressing game was that on the rare occasions when Arsenal got numbers forward, the Greek defence was sliced open as easily as their own had been, with some gilt edged chances going begging. I won’t go into details about the blunders at the back, but they are proof of how a settled backline is vital, because the back-up options don’t bear thinking about. We’ve see defensive horrorshows away in Europe before, and this one joined the list. Mike Preston summed it all up in a one line email – ‘Come back, Almunia. All is forgiven.’

I’ve not heard the news on Andre Santos, but it poses a problem if he is out for any length of time. Ignasi Miquel is a decent enough prospect, but he can be caught out at full back. Then again, so can Santos. There are worse players we could lose, although I think his experience is no bad thing.

Still, Arsenal win the group and ultimately that’s what matters. This defeat will quickly be forgotten, although I hope the younger players on duty learn from the lesson administered on the football field. I fear it’s too late for some of the older ones.

The current issue of the Gooner is available to buy online here. It will also be on sale outside the stadium against Everton next weekend.

Kevin Whitcher’s newly updated version of the book co-written with Alex Fynn, ‘Arsènal: The Making of a Modern Superclub’ is available in paperback from publishers Vision Sports for a reduced price of £6.99 including postage if you use the promo code ‘Gooner’ on the page that appears after you click ‘buy now’. Click here to order.


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  1. Viking

    Dec 08, 2011, 22:31 #15780

    Why did Wenger play TV and our last fit left back. If experience was needed, play Pers, but not our most valuable centre back in a nothing game. Shava is a disgrace, I've never liked the bloke, and he should never be allowed to wear the shirt again. Whenever I see his name on the teamsheet I worry for the rest of the team as we're effectively playing with 10 men. Chamakh, both clowns in goal and Djorou had another opportunity to put themselves in the shop window and put in a peformance, sure it was a nothing game, but play for the team and your own self esteem. They let us and themselves down. Give Ryo, Ox, Bartley and Afobe a chance, even Luke Freeman can't be any worse than Chamakh. Where is Park? Just shows how highly Wenger rates him as we never turn to him when we need a goal! So many players are out of their depth, why can Wenger not see this?!!!

  2. The mancs have a word for it.......

    Dec 08, 2011, 7:49 #15751

    Hilarious but adds just a little bit of perspective. The amount of times I have read on this site that fergie would never allow such a thing in response to our slip ups, well, look at some of their recent results and think again..........

  3. Joe S.

    Dec 08, 2011, 5:50 #15750

    I may as well join the chorus in slagging off the horror show in Greece.There is no need to tolerate any longer the ineptirude of the front two, and if Wegner doesn't have the confidence to play Park ahead of these two T Shirts 2's stay at Arsenal should also be cut.The only positive was that there was enough embaressment for even Wegner to realise that he shouldn't be complacent and needs to reinforce the squad with one solid defender as well as looking for alternative striker options.

  4. DW Thomas

    Dec 08, 2011, 1:11 #15749

    Don't think Chamakh was too bad. He hardly gets much service. Our team play just doesn't suit him and we have a hard time changing things up to get the most of him. Frimpong is a ticking time bomb it seems each game. Wenger is the last manager who will get discipline out of him. He's not tough enough on his players. Djourou, Squillaci, and yes even TV were terrible last night. Fabianski and Mannone looked like school yard keepers. We are hoping RVP doesn't get injured, but just as important is Szcz staying fit. Our back up players have proven their worth and it ain't much. Coq looked ok, but what was he doing wailing on the ground one minute like his leg was broken and then up the next like nothing happened? And he is supposed to be our back up to Song? The Ox should be our first sub off the bench each game. Teach him to play defense and the rest will take care of itself with him. I was embarrassed to be an Arsenal fan last night. Sure, the game was not important, but we played like incompetent clowns. If Wenger doesn't buy this January and coming summer, he must be completely deluded!

  5. Matty S

    Dec 07, 2011, 23:43 #15748

    I'm excited about OC, Coquelin, Frimpong and MIguel.

  6. Shrop****

    Dec 07, 2011, 23:30 #15747

    A lot of angst in the responses to something we have all known for ages. Chamakh, Arseshavin, Squillaci just not up to it. We have no reserve keepers. Djourou is not a fullback and the frimelin axis is not ready yet and more coqpong at present! The Stubborn One will not buy cover in January. So what is new? Oh and Mandy Dodds is probably 12 years old and still believes in Father Christmas and World Peace!

  7. IMAC

    Dec 07, 2011, 22:28 #15746

    We didn't learn anything that we didn't already know. There is not enough depth in the squad. Cannot believe the goalkeeping situation has come to this. How many humiliating gaffes do we have to endure, we are continually a laughing stock. God help us if Chesney gets injured. It's incredible that we are relying on a young goalkeeper who is still only learning his trade and will probably make a few mistakes himself. But if he does we can only blame one man, THE MANAGER. He has allowed this situation to develop and never addressed what we all knew. We've got Almunia still at the club being paid a good salary who doesn't even have to sit on the bench, apparently only training. Beyond the 3 clowns we've got young James Shea and Sean McDermott who you just couldn't possibly play in the first team. Let's just hope Chesney stays fit and doesn't get suspended. Even Sunderland have 3 decent keepers who are all capable of doing a job. The less said about most of the outfield players last night the better, disorganised, naive, no team spirit, no communication......

  8. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Dec 07, 2011, 22:21 #15745

    Yes, it was a shocker of a performance. I think we can all see that Arshavin and most likely Chamakh's time at the club should be up at the end of the season, and there's much more chance of a buyer for them than for Almunia, Denilson blahblah etc. so may as well flog them while they still attract currency. Looking at it another way, both Manc teams fell at the first hurdle. One with a multi - squillion squad who forgot that no team, no matter how expensive, has a divine right to win any given match in this ludicrous tournament, the other victim of thinking they could take the piss by picking a Carling Cup team against the so - called smaller teams in the group before the job was done. Our lot did that last season against Shakhtar and Braga, but at least AW learnt from that and made sure this time around that not only qualification was assured, but the group was won before he put out his Frankenteam against the Olympians. Just one other thing - I watched Basel knock out Mutd this morning on Australian television. In between clapping, laughing, whooping and cheering, I heard a priceless comment from Zeljko "Spider" Kalac, he of the major goalkeeping blunder for Australia against Croatia at WC2006. Kalac's words: "The flag will be sitting at half - mast over Manchester tonight. With both City and United out early, Manchester must be a sad, sad town". Said with a massive leery grin on his kite. Almost made up for having to endure his career as a dud goalie for Aus...almost...

  9. Mark

    Dec 07, 2011, 21:54 #15743

    58-60 points. 5th or 6th place. no cups. get used to reality then it wont hurt so much

  10. Mandy Dodd

    Dec 07, 2011, 20:42 #15742

    @ question for Mandy Dodd, damned if I know why there are so many spurs fans of the bitter type on arsenal blogs, but I am sure you will agree with me, there are a lot of them out there. Canadagooner has some very valid points on the issue. I guess years in the shadow, without major honours has a damaging affect on the psyche of some, years of being built up by the media only to fail maybe brings about an unhealthy obsession with more successful neighbours. Not all spurs fans are so afflicted I know, just a lot of them that appear on arsenal blogs. But in reality, I cannot really answer your question as I have not been in the dark place some of these poor unfortunates find themselves in. And for that, I am eternally thankful

  11. Ando

    Dec 07, 2011, 20:02 #15741

    Will label last nights team selection as ''work in progress'' and those selected are not progressing quickly enough for us to challenge for a pot, some of them (the younger ones perhaps) will improve every time they don the shirt, sadly too many of the others will get too many second chances before being shown the door. Same old Arsene too much belief in players who simply cannot/will not step up to the plate and take some responsibility despite the hype that surrounds them.

  12. Reggie

    Dec 07, 2011, 19:52 #15740

    @canadagooner we dont expect wenger to spend £50m what we do expect is to bring players in who are better than Chamakh and Park as back up for RVP and a back up keeper for Szczesny.Is that really too much to ask for?If the back up players are not good enough surely you want them replaced dont you?

  13. Obie,Nigeria

    Dec 07, 2011, 19:35 #15739

    This is no rocket science.Arshavin, Chamakh,Squillaci, Almunia,Djorou should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for that weak performance. Wenger please sell them in Jan as they are not even good enough to play for the top Championship sides.Buy quality players to provide competition and to step in when needed,you have the funds...at least £60m.

  14. Peter Wain

    Dec 07, 2011, 19:24 #15738

    It is absolutely ridiculous that Wehger will not buy in January. We have one striker no back up goal keeper and no left back. The result says it all as far as the squad goes. Large number of mediocre players such as Ashavin Chamakh Djourou and Scillaci. How Wenger expects to finish in the top four with these failures is beyond me. The attitude shown by Arshavin was an appaling example for the young players. I cannot understand how he continues to be pick. Boot him put now and let the other go to.

  15. CanadaGooner

    Dec 07, 2011, 19:16 #15737

    @Kenny - let's be a little realistic here. you make buying players sound like going to TESCO and buying a can of tomatoes. when chelsea bought Torres for 50mils they didnt think he'll turn out so ****, and you can name many more: berbatov, crespo, carroll etc. If you read my comment properly you'd have noticed that i wasnt condoning their poor performance either, but as long as they're still arsenal players and we may still need them to play + the season isnt over yet, i would measure my abuse of them, as i havent seen many players do better off the back of their own fans slagging them off in a totally disproportionate manner @ Question for Mandy Dodd - you couldnt be more wrong. there are many people out there who think they are arsenal fans only when we win and when we're not doing so well, they show their true colors (spuds). Arsenal hasnt won anything in 6 years, but we wont be as hopeless as spurs for another 20 years! if you know your football and know anything about spurs fans you'll know they have plenty to be jealous of arsenal for: how long has it taken them to figure out how to get a new stadium (even shamelessly trying to move to west london for a nasty-looking olympic stadium! that's how desperate they are), not to mention their struggles over the last 15 years just to make the champions league (made it once, did fairly well, and couldnt qualify the next season, and the next, and the next...). so, yes, spurs fans have plenty to hate arsenal for! and always will

  16. Andy

    Dec 07, 2011, 18:24 #15736

    Wenger talking in August 2010 about Szczesny's chances of being number 1 "he will have to bide his time as we have FOUR world class keepers at the club" Yeah he thinks Average Al Flappy and the Italian Pony are world class.We need an experienced keeper brought in january and not another clown from the circus

  17. Kenny

    Dec 07, 2011, 18:10 #15735

    CanadaGooner these so called bit part players you mention are all on £60k plus a week.I would expect them to try and earn it.And what about the fans who travelled to Greece dont they deserve a refund like Old Trafford?.Its fans like you who let these players get away with the rubbish we saw last night who do my head in.We dont expect to see the first eleven turn out but the players who did play to run their hearts out.Last night was a disgraceful performance.You talk about motivating Arshavin and Chamakh they are playing for Arsenal they shouldnt need motivating.Last night told us we need to buy in january.

  18. Question for Mandy Dodd

    Dec 07, 2011, 18:05 #15734

    Why would tottenham fans bother to come on to an Arsenal message board, pretend to be Arsenal fans and slag off a manager who has won precisely nothing for Arsenal for 6 years? The tottenham fans I know have enjoyed immensely watching Arsenal's steady decline over the last few years and the last thing they want is for Wenger to go.

  19. Yanto

    Dec 07, 2011, 17:54 #15733

    Last night's attempt at a performance was EMBARRASSING, do these (so called) professional footballer's have no grasp of 'Pride, Effort, Work Ethic? Does playing for the badge mean nothing to them!?? I would love to know who on earth did the scouting for almunia, mannone and flappyanski...they seem to have all come from the same place 'Footso's Circus Company.....They Are USELESS...also who is the golakeeping coah/staff..they need shooting. It only served to highlight just how fortunate we are to have Chez as our No 1 Keeper...but also if he get's injured - which most players do at least once in a season - then we are truly screwed, because those other clowns are all accidents that Will Happen.... Whatever Wenger ever says in future if he utters anything about us having 3 or 4 Top Class Goalies...I know he is either lying , stupid or both. Just when I ( and quite a few other Gooners I know) were beginning to feel 'Good' about our form, situation - compared to the first part of the season that is - so Wenger goes and embarrasses us again.... No excuses Wenger - Time to cut the dross adrift, save a fortune on the wages bill for these incompetents AND Buy Some Decent Players!!!!! How long before we have to re-instate the chant "Spend Some F***ing Money" !!????

  20. BRISKI

    Dec 07, 2011, 17:20 #15731

    Good Post Ed. Fair and balanced. I think it probable that AW did do the right thing in naming a second team - in this squad of internationals - to play in this 'meaningless' fixture. Fair enough to have his eyes on the Premiership. The great disaster was that the second team, who should have had their eyes on proving themselves to the manager - and to us - also viewed the game as meaningless and played accordingly. A great mistake. We are not yet strong enough to absorb any kind of defeat and it will affect our performance against Everton. Confidence is a fragile thing and these not so young 'youngsters' blew it. How some of them have the temerity to turn up on pay parade - for riches beyond the wildest dreams of most of us - is beyond me. Ask me to pull on an Arsenal shirt and I would be willing to die for the team - for nothing! So. What will AW do, blind and stubborn as he can be? My recurring nightmare is that he will do nothing, except give articulate and self-delusional explanations to the media. What should he do? Dump Arshavin,(given up) Chamakk ( the comment about the time he spends on his hair was well placed ), Squillaci--out of his depth totally, Djourou - end this poor man's bewilderment. I think he sees things that the rest of us don't. Neither Fabianski nor Manone are premiership goalkeepers. It is frightening , but I too was hoping that Almunia was somewhere in the stadium - sobbing quietly on the back row I should think. Frimpong needs to be taken on one side and told to cut the naked , pointless aggression; self-control is needed , although he does frighten people, including me. In January, we need a top quality striker - we have no cover for the RVP. We urgently need cover for Szczesny Heaven help us if either are injured! I watched CG on AP last night and although sounding brave, I suspect he was inwardly despairing. Would that those years might return! By the way, what has happened to Park? Arsenal for ever.

  21. Ron

    Dec 07, 2011, 17:13 #15730

    Just to say guys (i forgot). Whe you look at lest ight and all of our comments here, its not rocket science to work out why any decent player who we do develop looks to get out once their profile is raised sufficiently. Bye Bye RVP. No hard feelings either.

  22. Ron

    Dec 07, 2011, 17:02 #15729

    The result was unimportant but lets not kid ourselves here. Starting with Arshavin and Chamachk, neither who give two tosses whether they play or not in my view, there are others, Djourou, Schillaci et al who are not even Championship material in that sqaud and i think im being kind to some of them. Scratch the surface of the 1st team and there isnt much left at Arsenal. All of the keepers beneath Schez need shipping out. Theyre hopeless and embarrassments and always have been. What does playing with these donkeys and deadbeats do for the likes of Oxlade? Nothing at all. Its a shambles and its no point AW moaning how the keepers were let down etc etc as its what donkeya and deadbeats do routinely and theyve done it when in a first team shirt for years! To be honest, the CL is in many ways unimportant. I genuinly fear for the first team once theyre pitched in v a really decent european team. As things stand, getting top 4 is vital. The Club might sensibly abort the CL and FAC to try and reach it next Season, though oddly i have a feeling we may have a run in the FAC. I say this on the basis that its a tourny these days that an average team can win on a good day with a fair wind. Thats us. Average. Average teams dont win the CL. Last night was totally irrelavant.

  23. Whinger_OUT_NOW

    Dec 07, 2011, 16:45 #15728

    As for the "meaningless" part, every win the CL is worth money..lots of it. We always hear His Master and His Slave banging their gums about money. And they threw away a chance to earn a few million...while paying the players to screw up. Good going

  24. Cornish Gooner

    Dec 07, 2011, 16:44 #15727

    Have really enjoyed today's posts - it sems "adversity" (i.e. reversion to another crap performance) can bring out some of the best in gooner humour. Didn't you just KNOW that not only were we going to be rubbish but would have at least one injury to one of the few first team members participating in the shambles. Mustn't get too depressed though, after all we have "a big squad" and don't need to buy anyone in The Window do we? I have followed this club of ours for 60+ years, boy - man - old git but, for the first time, I feel I need help. Does The Gooner offer a counselling service please?

  25. Andreas

    Dec 07, 2011, 16:36 #15726

    Didn't Wenger declare that tactically we were short? Isn't that an admission he got it wrong and didn't expect olympiacos to go for it.

  26. simon

    Dec 07, 2011, 16:18 #15725

    if he dumps some of the crud and buys a bit more strength upfront last night will have been worth it. i should also think it'll have made his mind up that frimpong needs to go on loan, he's to up and down over 90 minutes-needs to be more consistent in his play. Still iggy looks reliable and AOC definitely should replace AA23 on the bench so not all bad.

  27. smee

    Dec 07, 2011, 16:16 #15724

    Last night was an embarressant to watch. The defence was the best thing and that was dire. The players get paid for that shambles. I feel sorry for the fans that paid good money to be there. The problem I have is :- I will (as always)be expecting the team to win against whoever they face and will be disappointed if they so much as drop a point, let alone lose. I am not a AKB or AMG, i am just a gooner who could never support another team.

  28. lee armitt

    Dec 07, 2011, 16:07 #15723

    So many sad fans getting worked up about a meaningless game

  29. Jekyll

    Dec 07, 2011, 15:55 #15722

    There are a few mysteries at the moment: Why is Arshavin ahead of AOC in the pecking order? Why does he not even bring Park on in a game like last night's? I don't expect this performance to have any influence on Wenger's decision not to buy in January. He doesn't seem to base decisions on players on their performances, but rather a 'belief' they will come good if he just keeps playing them. Besides that, Chamakh won't even be there in Jan - Feb due to the ANC, so Wenger will have as his sole back up to RVP Park, a man he didn't even give a kick in a reserve team run out like last night. It's bewildering. Wenger seems to live in a world of ideals and theories rather than the evidence of his eyes.

  30. CanadaGooner

    Dec 07, 2011, 15:36 #15721

    Nice report Kev. But wow!! the comments pouring in for a dead-rubber match are quite outstanding aint they? what a way to pick Arshavin up and motivate Chamakh & others eh. We seem to forget we might well need these players at some point during the season. I find it simply unbelievable that anyone would expect players who havent really had too many games all season, to pop up away from home at a match of very little consequence to put up a stellar performance? I've got one simple question for you folks: if Wenger had gone into this match with RVP and co and won it 5 - 0 and returned with injuries to those players, wouldnt we all crucify him? the most he could do was give the fringe players a run out, and unfortunately, those players couldnt really get motivated as they knew this was a dead rubber. The rest, regarding some of their performances is what we already know. They get paid (quite a lot) and should at least put some effort in whenever they get a chance to play. But then, if footballers were that clever, perhaps they wont be playing football? ha ha

  31. maguiresbridge gooner

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:48 #15720

    it has been said on here on numerous occasions that we need a back up for rvp that may be true but i'll tell you what we need a back up to far more urgently a bloody goalkeeper god help us if anything happens to szczesny and we have to rely on any one of those two stoogees last night.By the way kevin first class piece.

  32. Tony Evans

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:42 #15719

    Gare Kekeke - I reckon you could be right and we will see a Project Youth Phase 2. Wenger is so stubborn and deluded that he will not abandon his experiment lightly. Also I agree with your comment on another blog - why does Wenger insist on behaving like we have no money at all? Yes we know that competing with the likes of Citeh is not possible and not the way football should be going, but surely we can afford some half decent squad players that can slot in when required? I think we can all see the wheels coming off yet again because of this and to me it seems so unecessary. I know we have no divine right to win anything but at least give the first team a fighting chance with some quality in reserve.

  33. Merse69

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:39 #15718

    Disappointing result, but of no consequence. Sadly when Squillaci plays and Szczesny doesn't, we look vulnerable. You can't play your reserves against a team fighting for qualification in the champions league and expect a great result. Stop whinging and just enjoy the fact we've qualified a game early and given the first team a rest. And then enjoy watching the Manchester clubs trying to scrape over the line....

  34. Colin

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:37 #15717

    Last nights performance cannot be excused by saying it was a meaningless game.But for the Greeks wayward finishing we would have been looking at another EIGHT.All of them players on the pitch with the exception of TV and Santos played because they are not good enough for the first 11.They should have been busting a gut to prove there are good enough.Some we can give up on now, the two clowns i mean keepers,Djourou,Squillaci,Arshavin and Chamakh have had enough chances.I am scratching my head trying to think of a worse performance in an Arsenal shirt than Djourou's.But Wenger lacks that ruthless streak to clear them out.Chelsea have turned around and said Anelka and Alex can go we should do the same with some of our players.The trouble is we cant get rid of the rubbish and i add Diaby and Almunia to the list because we pay them too much.And thats down to the manager again.The Ox is the only bright light on the horizon but wont be picked in front of our lazy Russian.By the way last nights team will be the same that players in the FA cup

  35. Dan h

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:23 #15716

    Forgot to say about the goalkeeping back-up situation if there is some light at the end of the tunnel Fabianski,Mannone & Almunia are all out of contract come the summer.Chamakh will be difficult to move on can't see anyone buying players in january who have AC of nations involvement.

  36. The Dartford Gooner

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:06 #15715

    I agree with Stumpy Dens views on the chuckle brothers up front. Chamakh is just not good enough but Arshavin should be ashamed of himself, all that skill and no effort. I cant believe some fans still think this man deserves a place in the team.Arsene must now clear out the dead wood, i would rather see kids getting experience than players who are not good enough or dont seem to have pride in the shirt, hurry back Jack. Stumpy Den bring you gloves on Saturday , you might get at the very least a place on the bench. Strange that the top scorer in the reserves goes out on loan, he cant be any worse than the two who turned up last night. Is Afobe still injured?

  37. Mandy Dodd

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:05 #15714

    Poor by some players who hardly ever play, but at the end of the day, who cares, we are through, we have topped the group, and just look at who we have avoided. Do not worry, Vermaelen can play LB and has done so for his country. Think those with an agenda against the manager are seriously clutching at straws reading too much into this dead rubber. I know things have not gone too well for the anti Wenger brigade lately, but this game! pppplllllease! Surely you can do better than that? Good to see this site continues to be a platform for disaffected tiny totts, you can just smell the years of bitterness in their posts! Enjoy your thurs nights1

  38. Gee

    Dec 07, 2011, 13:04 #15713

    One thing is for sure is that the Ox is now in front of Arshavin in the pecking order. From now on the lad should be on the bench every game with Benayoun. They both are ample cover for Walcott/Gervinho. Arshavin should be sold, no question. Chamakh has lost it totally. I was convinced he would be gone in the summer. However Wenger will not sign a striker because he thinks Benik Afobe and Campbell will do the business when fit or back from loan repectvely. Afobe was moved into the 1st team squad this year and suffered a very unlucky injury, but he is now back training with the 1st team and we can expect to see him on the bench against Leeds in FA cup. Rightly or wrongly these are the reasons why he will not purchase a striker in January. The maximum he will do is a loan of some sort until end of season, but you can forget a signing who is of any sort of proven quality that will be signed for more than 6 months

  39. What was the point in leaving Highbury?

    Dec 07, 2011, 12:20 #15712

    As i've said before we are one injury from a key player away from mid table. If RVP, Chesney or Tv get injured we have had it becuase the clowns that come in are truley awful. I am praying that Arsene is keeping his powder dry when he says we're not signing anyone in January. Can you imagine what would happen if Cheseny or RVP got injured and Chamakh and Flappy/mannone came in. And remember how bad we are as a club with injuries. AA, SS and MC have to be off soon or surely they would have more pride and respect than to put in a performance like that. AI fear for Ignasi playing at LB. In fairness he is a centre half, young and slower than me. Would much rather us **** AA23, Rosicky, JD and chamakh off now and go with the likes of Ox and Frimpong, at least they seem to care.

  40. Chris

    Dec 07, 2011, 12:06 #15711

    "The only thing that brings any relief is the fact that the group result was not contaminated by Arsene Wenger’s decision to treat this game as a workout for some fringe players." The only relief is that Vermaelen wasn't injured! Wenger can't win - if he'd played a stronger line up and more than Santos had been injured, he'd have been vilified. He did the right and sensible tihng - if you don't secure qualification before the last round of matches, your fate is your own responsibility. Agre that it did demonstrate that a few of the back up players aren't up to it (goalkeepers, Squillaci, Arshavin in this mood and Chamakh in particular) and must go to keep the squad in with a chance of achieving....

  41. halfempty

    Dec 07, 2011, 11:48 #15710

    so, AW admits we didnt have the right tactical approach, but did he do anything to change it? exactly what is he paid so much for if all he does is moan away at his sidekick on the bench? and what of our 'stiker(s)? arshavin and chamakh are universally known to be wastes of space and money, so what exactly is the point of Park? He sat on the bench all night! The captain of his country, one that reached the semifinal of the world cup, and he can't get a kick in a meaningless game where our forwards are totally invisible. Money well spent there, then...

  42. Gare Kekeke

    Dec 07, 2011, 10:55 #15709

    Another good article Kevin. Tony Evans, I'm agree with you 100%. The recent winning streak has in my view foolishly fuelled a belief amongst some of our most gullible fans that The Arsenal are a forced to reckoned with again. We haven't been a major force since 2004, but then Arsene Knows eh? Believe me, I want to be proved wrong, but I still can't see it. AA23 has stopped playing since Russia's failiure to qualify for the last World Cup. It's amazing to think what the left-back situation is now when for so many years at our club it's been a position of strength. For me, if he stays until and maybe even beyond the expiry of his current contract, Wenger will get 'Project Youth Mk II: The Next Generation' up and running next season. The Diaby, Denilson & Bendtner generation may have failed but OGL will hope Ryo, The Ox, Frimpong will succeed, spearheaded by Jack Wilshire. Within the next two years, Arteta, Santos & Mertsesacker (who I actually like) will be phased out.

  43. Nick

    Dec 07, 2011, 10:52 #15708

    A totally inept performance. why on earth did they keep playing short passes around defence & midfield continually losing possession in our own half? and why with 4 centre halves on the pitch is oxlade-chamberlain marking mellberg at the free kick for their 3rd goal? This wasn't a young Arsenal team, we had 8 internationals starting the game.

  44. will

    Dec 07, 2011, 10:17 #15707

    Agree with you Kev. The senior players bar Rosicky were abysmal. Ash, Chamakh, Fab dreadful. As we all know its a squad lacking depth but what is baffling given our left back crisis is why he played Santos and TVM in a nothing game. Either you put out the full team or just play the youngsters. Sometimes its seems like he got a death wish.Its like team playing well what can I do to f*** it up oh yeah play my only left back and my best centre back in a nothing game and maybe they will get injured.

  45. Gordon

    Dec 07, 2011, 10:04 #15706

    Think you have let the team off lightly Ed.This was not an inexperienced side.The back 5 were all internationals.Take away Chamberlain and the rest of the back up players are not good enough.And i include Frimpong(too much hype surrounding him) and Coquelin in that.They were given the run around last night in midfield.Is there another club with 3 worse keepers on their books?.How many more errors is Flappy going to allowed to make.A long term injury to Szczesny and we are ****ed.Even though we got rid of a lot of crap in the summer we still have a lot left.Arshavin and Chamakh are just here for the pay day.Shocking non triers.Flappy Manonne Squillaci Djourou Chamakh and AA23 need to be shown the exit door soon.But knowning Wenger he will give them long term contracts!!!!!!

  46. Rob

    Dec 07, 2011, 10:00 #15705

    People say the game was 'meaningless' and technically that is correct. But should - IS ? - any game 'meaningless' when Arsenal pay you fifty or sixty thousand a week and ask you to don that shirt ? Surely any supporter would see it as a honour if they were being paid nothing ? I finally ran out of patience with Arshavin last night. He was woeful. Chamakh likewise. Can even the most myopic of Wenger's disciples believe in Djourou or Squilachi ? Sixty million pounds sitting in the bank for Hill-Wood and Friar to scheme up new busts and pictures whilst our rivals all strengthen, equals not just another trophyless season but in all probability a fifth or sixth place finish. A couple of serious injuries and we are barely a tea pot - mid table - team. I cannot believe that Wenger will sit on his hands. Except that every experience from recent years suggests he will,

  47. HowardL

    Dec 07, 2011, 9:34 #15704

    To think - I'd almost forgotten the Old Trafford debacle. The 'first team' may be playing well but last night's "μακελλείο, or shambles" (Kev, you're being kind) demonstrated how much the squad needs some serious strengthening in January - or we're on thin ice.

  48. Judge Fred

    Dec 07, 2011, 9:27 #15703

    We have been here before....numbers 1-11 are good enough to compete with most teams, but scratch the surface and we are brittle and just not good enough. We desperately need another forward in January but it aint happening. Wenger has not learnt his lessons from previous seasons and therefore am expecting the usual late-season collapse. Same old, same old...ho hum.

  49. Sarge

    Dec 07, 2011, 9:26 #15702

    Last night re-enforced (if it ever needed it) that some of the 'squad' players are not up to the task. The result may not have mattered but the lack of intelligence and application from so called 'experienced' professionals is inexcusable. Indecision at the back and lack of know-how and fight up front is a recipe for defeat. If you can't stop 'em or can't score 'em you won't win games. My concern is that Wenger will field a similar side in the F.A. Cup with the same predictable outcome. We weren't beaten by quality, we were beaten by a team with more desire and a clear objective. That is often a more dangerous combination.

  50. Andrew Cohen

    Dec 07, 2011, 9:24 #15701

    Did I see a comment somewhere to the effect that the AMG's have been quiet somewhere? Our ability to field a competitive team is paper thin, and work must be done in January to offload, Arshavin especially.

  51. David

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:58 #15700

    Well done Wenger play our only fit LB.What a dumb decision that was.As has been said before our back up players are not good enough.I wont lose any sleep if i never saw the two clowns in goal,Comedy Djourou Squillaci Arshavin and Chamakh play for us again.Chamakh has scored 2 goals in a year and one was against Orient.Didnt Wenger turn around last year and say this was his best squad he has ever had?And that is why he said he would not strengthen in january.If it wasnt so sad you would have to laugh a bit like the defending for the first two goals last night.

  52. dando

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:57 #15699

    The word I would use is "sloppy". Sloppy passing, sloppy defending sloppy keeping. As for our attack, heaven help us if Robin is not there to finish off the moves.

  53. chris dee

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:54 #15698

    Arsene owes the fans an apology over Arshavin. For 2 seasons this apology of a professional footballer has strolled through games without any effort,commitment,passion and a jaw dropping indiference to the needs of the team. And yet Arsene continues to indulge this highly paid non entity by playing him.Contrast him to the 100% effort put in by youngsters Chamberlain,Fringpong,Coquelin and Miguel. What sort of example does Arshavin set to these youngsters when Arsene continues to play him. Fingers crossed his lazy backside will be kicked out of the Emirates in January,which brings us to another player who ensures we are down to ten men everytime he's in the lineup. Chamakh. I have never seen a so called professional centre forward who can't hold up the ball,can't head the ball,can't pass the ball and who's shots on goal over many games can be counted on the fingers of one hand.If he took as much time on his game as he obviously does on his hair he would be a world beater. And I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it,if Djourou plays for Arsenal so do I. Slow in thought,positional sense minus zero,can't tackle,can't head, although he's 8 foot tall ,and a total lack of intelligence.How else do you explain his pass to a tightly marked team mate in our own penalty area as we were under immense pressure.He did the same in the Bernabeau when he passed to Fabrigas who then proceeded to back heel the ball to his chums in the Barcelona shirts who then scored. Arsene is to blame for Djourou as he has not been up to scratch since he made his debut against United in the Carling Cup. United won 1 nil and guess who cocked up and gifted United their goal. And let's hope Arsene signs an experienced goalkeeper soon cause we've had enough of Fabianski and Mannone who look and play as if they were recruited from Hackney Marshes.

  54. Adrian Wagenaar

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:46 #15697

    All last night showed was that one injury to our only decent keeper will mean more of the "comic cuts" we saw last night. Suddenly Almunia looked like "safe hands"

  55. Dan h

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:45 #15696

    The only positive to take from last night is AOC who again showed why he is pushing for more minutes in the first team.AA you really can see why he looks like he may well be moved on in january forget anything AW may say on the matter along with Squillaci these are both available loan deals being the most likely option at this point.With our defensive options available was surprised to see TV & Santos not only named in the squad but starting.We now have all 4 first team full backs injured with the prospect of one more injury meaning our best CB pairing TV & Kos playing out of position to cover.Hopefully Gibbs or Santos will be available by the time we play City it was a gamble we really didn't need to take.It was a game that we just wanted to get out of the way & it showed.

  56. Tony Evans

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:41 #15695

    No surprises really Kevin, the match just confirmed what most of us realise - that the back up players we have, bar one or two maybe, are just not good enough. Once again we will no doubt ultimately fail because of our poor squad players and I do not understand Wenger on this issue. He seems to love taking chances and running the gauntlet with injuries and no matter how many times his decision not to buy in some quality comes back to haunt him he never seems to learn.

  57. RJ

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:36 #15694

    If we lose Van Persie, we will still have a chance of 0-0 draws - if we lose Chesney, in the words of Frazer "We're doomed". Surely Shea - no matter how green has to be the bench back-up now. Thought Rosick-note looked sharp for his ten minutes.

  58. The Circus Is In Town

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:30 #15693

    Last night was like the kings new clothes.The back five last night was not inexperienced or young.We all know about Flappy and Manonne.They could bring out their own bloppers DVD the amountr of cock ups they have made.An injury to Sczcesny will be as bad a one as to RVP.We have all known after Szczesny we have 3 clowns as back up last night just proved it.The only place they should be is at the circus.Djourou was given the runaround he was ****ing awful his days must be numbered at the club.Squillaci is a statue great signing Arsene.Santos is poor when we plays with our best back 5 so what did you expect last night,Frimpong and Coquelin were like fish out of water.AA23 has retired from football but hasnt told us.But who keeps picking him?.Chamakh words cant describe how bad he is.Remember Wenger thinks he is back up for RVP and we dont need to sign anyone in january.Best squad ever says Wenger what a joker he is.Last night was a reality check for some of our players and they were found wanting.We dont have a good squad.New keeper and new striker is a priority in january or else

  59. Stumpy Den

    Dec 07, 2011, 8:15 #15692

    Arshavin, Chamakh, I have never seen such a crap performance from 2 front players like that for a long time. They were playing for a chance to show what they have got to get into the first team on a regular basis. F...k Me I could have played better and Iam a 51 year old goalkeeper. Wenger has to get a replacement striker in January, and get rid of those two. They are to blame for what happend in my opinion, the number of times Arshavin left 50/50 balls did not tackle and was not arsed. What message did that give the younger players. Chamakh up front again not arsed, left balls, no passion to score, no pace, crap.Thank god we qualified prior to game. Sorry for the negativity. Come on you gunners.

  60. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Sep 21, 2011, 3:20 #13127

    Thank you for your contribution, Tommy Burke - a voice of reason from the other side of the Clock End barrier. As Tommy says, Liverpool will be more attentive toward what the Spuds are doing, considering Pool beat us but lost to the beach ball birds. As for us, forget about 4th - we're 4th bottom, so let's concentrate on the team stringing enough results together to be top half by the New Year, and then hopefully they can keep it together long enough for a tilt at 6th. Given recent events and current circumstances, anything beyond that is a vivid dream of a serial fantasist.

  61. CD

    Sep 20, 2011, 14:59 #13111

    Forget United, City and Chelsea, I wasn't even remotely thinking about them. Currently my thoughts are more on WBA, Fulham, Blackburn, Swansea, Norwich, QPR etc!!!!!

  62. GoonerRon

    Sep 20, 2011, 14:31 #13107

    I'm not writing anything off this season. To talk of relegation battles after 5 games for any team is nonsensical. The 'resurgent' media darlings Liverpool are 3 points above us after our worst start in decades. Chelsea are 6 points ahead. It is not beyond comprehension that in the forthcoming 33 games we can make this up? On current form it doesn't look likely but it can happen. This isn't getting at you, Simon, but what is it with people needing to make sensationalist claims with only 5 games gone - 'Arsenal in a relagation battle', Arsenal will not qualify for Champions League,' it's a two horse race for the title etc? One thing I do know is that no trophies are won in September and, on that basis, I will continue to support the team and see where we get. Call me an AKB if you want, but I am Arsenal supporter and irrespective of what goes on, I will back the team.

  63. Steve

    Sep 20, 2011, 13:35 #13101

    A new defensive coach will make a huge difference. As you say, clearly what we have is not good enough to coach them currently. My seats are on the 18 yard line so I get to watch our defense closely for 45 minutes each home match. It is shcokingly badly organised. Aside from that, and having been a long-standing supporter of his, AW must go. Sooner than later. The finger is pointing firmly at him for all of this.

  64. GoonerGoal!

    Sep 20, 2011, 13:27 #13098

    The expression "clutching at straws" ran consistently through my mind as I read this article. Calling for us to simply hang onto the shirt-tails of Liverpool is probably a guarantee of nothing except safety from relegation. Still a "bird in the hand" and all that. It's all a bit odd really, because while watching his newly named saviour Gervinho in action last Saturday, I sat there with the name "Sylvan Wiltord" starting to echo in my brain. Gervinho's inabilty to see a pass when we were doing relatively well, was matched only by his ability to find a hidng place when things were starting to go wrong. Sound like anyone you remember?

  65. bunch

    Sep 20, 2011, 12:50 #13095

    Once again Rose fails to confront the real problems with Arsenal - the manager. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. Wake up, its time for Wenger to go.

  66. Richard Ansell

    Sep 20, 2011, 12:19 #13088

    Trouble is, Simon, I am fed up with Arsenal's reliance on other teams failings to make the top four. Wenger has been papering over the cracks for years now and I am afraid that we need a dose of reality. Scraping in to the top four would only continue the torture we are enduring. Qualifying for a cup we don't have a cat in hells chance of winning and keeping the pressure off Wenger and the Board for yet another season. I would rather suffer a mid table finish which might deliver the kick up the a**e our club needs.

  67. Tommy Burke - Liverpoool fan

    Sep 20, 2011, 12:19 #13086

    I agree that Carroll is a problem for us right now, and it does need to be sorted. The game against Brighton is a good place to start. Suarez is trying to do too much and Henderson is still improving. Apart from Carroll though our defence is a big worry. Bellamy can take Carrolls place in the starting 11 no problem, but Enrique looks like the only reliable starting defender we have at the moment. Skyrtel is not a right back and we saw how Bale had a party on the left wing at the weekend. Carragher needs a break because he either tries to do too much for the defence and makes mistakes that way, and Agger gets injured too often. Glen Johnson is still out through injury and has been for a while now, Martin Kelly is injured too. That leaves Flanaghan to fill right back, surely a decent right back is better than a decent centre back at right back. Confidence builds from the back, if we can get that sorted I think we will be OK. As for Arsenal, Arteta is a good signing, i'm not sure what Yossi is going to offer on top of the likes of Arshavin. Mertesecker was a good defender in the German League. I wonder if the pace of the premier league will see him found out though, he reminds me of Hypia in his final years at Liverpool, he's a little slow to turn and could be found out that way I think. Nevertheless he is a commanding centre back. Importantly from a Champions League point of view, I think you are severly underestimating spurs. Where you are looking at Liverpool as being the main rivals, I see Spurs as ours and not Arsenal. Though I believe Arsenal could change my mind about that quickly once injured players come back and as we pass that magic 10 game barrier as you say. Cheers, I enjoyed reading that article.

  68. Jekyll

    Sep 20, 2011, 11:09 #13079

    Liverpool may not be that good, but 'not good' is still a hell of a lot better than us right now. It's hard to draw encouragement from other team's inadequecies when they are dwarfed by our own. Hoping that Carroll doesn't do well in order to increase our chances is fairly desperate, I'm sure the author can see that. But these are desperate times at AFC.