The (day after) St Valentine’s Day Massacre

Online Ed: Arsenal out of their depth



The (day after) St Valentine’s Day Massacre

Ibrahimovic: No answers in Gunners’ defence


Let me start with an email exchange with Mike Preston that at least made me smile after the farce of Arsenal’s display in the San Siro last night.

MP: That was the fat lady Kevin
KW: If only it were true Mike, if only it were true. Ironic in the city of La Scala though...
MP: Alas, Kevin. I fear you are right, as ever. It's Gotterdammerung, but Wotan won't get off the stage.

Still, on this greyest of mornings for Gooners, I bring good news. Arsenal will see a very healthy profit for the 2011/12 financial year, due to the player trading of last summer. Ivan Gazidis scoffs dismissively at AC Milan’s business model because they spend money on too many star names the wrong side of 30. So who’s the real winner, eh? When Financial Fair Play kicks in in a couple of seasons time, who will be best placed to sweep and conquer all before them? Er… well, if it’s the Champions League we are talking about, that probably won’t concern Arsenal too much by that time, because there is every chance Arsène Wenger will still be collecting £7 million a year to produce profits on the balance sheets.

‘We’re about creating star players, not about buying them,’ Ivan Gazidis said recently. What he didn’t add was the bit about selling them afterwards. Fabregas and Nasri have departed, their peak years ahead of them, replaced with the cheaper Arteta and Gervinho. The hole in Arsenal’s income that would result in the event of failure to make next season’s Champions League will be filled by money made in the transfer market. And as the quality of the squad drops further, so will the club’s chances of re-joining Europe’s elite clubs. Once profits actually start to disappear due to falling ticket sales, Stan Kroenke might actually do something to arrest the decline, but at the moment, what he will see is a sold out stadium at Grade A prices for a meaningless second leg of a last 16 European tie, even if about 15,000 don’t actually bother to take their seats. Their money though, is in the bank.

The first time Thierry Henry departed Arsenal one of the main reasons was that he could not afford to wait for the Arsenal side of 2007 to mature into contenders. He subsequently won La Liga and the Champions League while the Gunners won diddly squat from some highly promising positions, let down by too many inexperienced players and a lack of the manager’s famed mental strength. In 2012, Robin van Persie will follow in his footsteps and make his own exit to ensure the concluding years of his own career are not wasted. And no one will blame him. Imagine waiting for Theo Walcott to come good. It’s like Chinese water torture.

Defensively, Arsenal are too much of a shambles to win a trophy anymore. Their last silverware was when Sol Campbell was in the back four. Without him, the successes after the retirement of Tony Adams (three trophies in three years) would not have happened. So Arsène Wenger got lucky with George Graham’s defence and then by picking up Campbell on a free transfer, but it couldn’t last forever. These guys knew how to organise a defence, but now we are left with potentially good defenders in urgent need of coaching they will never get under the current regime. The result is the kind of space Kevin Prince-Boateng enjoyed in the area for Milan’s opener, or the ridiculous arm across the throat challenge by Johan Djourou that led to the penalty for the fourth goal.

The most damning thing amongst many damning things in the San Siro was the lack of fight amongst this Arsenal team. Where was the drive, the passion, the determination? The midfield just knocked the ball sideways and may even have actually shaded the possession stats. But for what purpose? The second half saw some improvement going forward with the Ox – who should have started instead of Walcott – at least trying to take on the opposition and Van Persie force the keeper to make three saves. But overall, it was pretty lacklustre, a rudderless ship waiting for some wind in its sails. Henry for the second half was worth a gamble, but the service to him was largely terrible, a legacy of the decline in the quality of the playing squad. It’s incredible to think that the club’s wage bill rises year on year when you compare some of the performances these days with those of better times under Wenger’s tenure.

Possession was given away too cheaply too often and at this level, such profligacy often costs. And so it proved. And possession is what Arsène Wenger’s whole philosophy is based upon. This is no great Milan side. The standard of football in Italy has declined in recent seasons, and the team that faced Arsenal in 2008 was a much better one. Hell, Spurs won 1-0 in the San Siro about this time last season. And looking at the two squads in north London now, you’d have a hard job arguing Arsenal have the better one. Yes, they have the stadium and the profits, but somewhere down the line, someone has taken their eye off the ball and allowed things to decline to the point where you wonder if Tottenham will enjoy a run as the top dogs in a local rivalry that has been kind to Gooners for most of the last 25 years.

I’ll finish with the texts I received during the match, and after it…

20.59 (David Oudot) The back cover of the next issue of the fanzine is a ‘Missing Child’ poster, but for Mikel Arteta. He goes missing in every game unless we’re winning against a sh*t non-challenging side. 60,000 for the second leg? No chance!

21.03 (Ian Henry) Wheels truly off the Wenger wagon now

21.37 (Gary W) Djourou – was anyone surprised? Never been so embarrassed or ashamed. I want to get on the plane with Henry to New York for the week (maybe we could get five at home).

21.41 (Pete Mountford) Well that took Wenger’s tactics to a new level.

21.41 (Marc Ollington) Do you know what mate? I couldn’t care less anymore. Never has such a thrashing meant so little.

21.44 (Pete Mountford) Kev, I raise you how many AKBs you get after you post

21.57 (Ian Henry) Difference in class makes you wonder what’s the point in finishing fourth

22.03 (Pete Mountford) So what is the betting we get ‘the players are devastated’ for three days? Set us up for Saturday

And to finish, a favour to one of The Gooner sellers, Alex, who has asked me to let people know he has five spare tickets for the FA Cup game against Sunderland on Saturday. Alex’s contact details can be found here and as he will be at the game, you can arrange to pick any tickets up from him outside the stadium on the day.

The current issue of the Gooner can be bought online here. You can also get an e-version of the issue to read on your ipad/tablet/iphone/android. The app is free and you can download the first few pages of each issue to decide whether or not to purchase the whole thing


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comments

  1. Ronster

    Feb 18, 2012, 8:05 #18864

    HowardL...with all due respect,I would say good luck to Milan if they relaid the wings to give them an advantage.They are demonstrating a 'win at all costs' attitude which is sadly lacking at Arsenal Football Club.

  2. Theo's Bikini-Line

    Feb 18, 2012, 0:09 #18862

    Yes, I agree with your diagnosis HowardL - you are indeed nuts!!!

  3. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 17, 2012, 22:42 #18859

    @ HowardL i get your point mate and i agree it was done intentionally just like sunderland last week and probably tomorrow but would it really have made any difference to some of the players we have especially walcott who falls and can't cross the ball on the bowling green at the emirates.

  4. HowardL

    Feb 17, 2012, 20:17 #18852

    Yes, Arsenal were awful, it was humiliating and Wenger has lost the plot - which we knew anyway. So we are all hurting and piling into the spineless team and clueless manager. But why is no one focussing on the appalling state of the pitch? Surely, it was relaid 24 hours earlier to blunt our wing play. The pitch was a travesty - I've seen better on Hackney Marshes - and the real mistake was that the game should never have started. It's not the same for both teams - Milan play there all season. The surface was an insult to the Champions League and the game should be replayed. You all probably think I'm nuts - but is there anyone out there who feels the same as I do?

  5. StuartL

    Feb 17, 2012, 19:26 #18849

    No suprise that our team turn out another gutless performance - it's now par for the course. Something has to change - Wenger either needs to admit that sticking rigidly to the 4-3-3 with our current players just doesn't work as it was built around Fabregas (and he ain't here no more)and far too many of our players aren't up to scratch, so we either change the formation, drastically upgrade the personnel or change the manager and all 3 at the same time.

  6. R Meade

    Feb 17, 2012, 17:16 #18838

    GoonerGoal is not wanting Dein back longing for the old days? He priced priced fans out of the game then took off with bags of money sound familiar! If wanting the real Arsenal back makes me a meat and potato guy then yes I am give me Highbury and the North bank anyday over all this rubbish.

  7. Mr B

    Feb 17, 2012, 13:58 #18817

    Don't know what planet Ron is on but if you knew anything you'd know David Dein was forced out by the board for trying to bring in Stan Kronke. Hill-Wood and the rest of our dead-wood board formed a motion led by Danny Fizman RIP who voted him out of Arsenal, so Dein sold his shares to Uzmanov and stayed away! I met him plenty of times at reserve and youth team games which he never missed and always wanted the best for Arsenal but the old relics on the board could never see this and were only ever interested in profit. I for one would welcome David Dein back as Gazidis is just another yes man that Wenger can maniplulate. If Dein is so bad why did the FA go running to him to take over the 2018 world cup bid and why was he almost voted FA Chairman???

  8. Ron

    Feb 17, 2012, 12:34 #18803

    I wouldnt let Dein wash my car. Only have to see him in his Prince Philip type overcoat (i'm sure he thinks those mugs who shout his name and to whom he smiles to in return are his 'subjects'), devilshly grinning his way down Hornsey Road sometimes with his meat headed henchmen in tow to know hes a spiv. A complete tosser who took his money and ran. Yes, and that Bond scheme ought still to be stuck up his fat arse, 20 years on! Why people put a halo on him ill never know!Desperation in view of the present shambles i suspect.

  9. els

    Feb 17, 2012, 11:33 #18795

    Great article as usual. Interesting that there aren't the usual people on here saying "You're so negative". You've called it as it is for a while. Let's face it, we as fans are being sold a message of sustainability, the only person that suits is Stan Kroenke the asset stripped not us fans. Stan, if you can't find a way for Arsenal to compete, adopt a different strategy, sell the club to Usmanov. He will find a way. Kroenke OUT and it's time all Arsenal fans found their voice on this

  10. GoonerGoal!

    Feb 17, 2012, 11:18 #18792

    R Meade are you the voice in the wilderness? The one person actually happy with the way things are at post-Dein Arsenal? Or could it be you are just a Bovril and meat pie guy longing for the old days?

  11. Tony Evans

    Feb 17, 2012, 9:31 #18780

    Canada - I crave a change of manager this summer. I gave up with Wenger sometime ago. I dislike the Board too and they must take their share of the blame for the shocking decline in the quality of the squad since 2006 but it is Wenger who buys and sells players, Wenger who rewards mediocrity and Wenger who decides on tactics. I disagree that a change of manager will not change anything with the current Board still in place. What Wenger has created is an abomination; a spineless, gutless shower of losers that shames the proud name of Arsenal and has turned us in to a joke team. I am ashamed of my club and my ticket to the Sunderland game is joining Jeff's in the bin. This is from a passionate fan that has gone through thick and thin with Arsenal since the late sixties but I am fed up being taken for a mug and paying sky high prices to watch a second rate team.

  12. fozzy's mate

    Feb 17, 2012, 9:05 #18779

    R Meade - I agree Dein was the original fan fleecer with the bond scheme. Pay £1100 or £1600 20 years ago or risk not getting a ticket. We moaned but swallowed it whilst West Ham tried the same thing and were faced with a mini riot forcing it to be scrapped. That's us though moan but swallow it. However even for us breaking point is coming fast. I detest pundits who say they can't believe were not bowing down for OGL, in contrast I think we have shown great patience. At Real Madrid the white hankies would have been out 5 years ago.

  13. Mike

    Feb 17, 2012, 8:57 #18778

    Arsenal shares bought at K16500 a pop yesterday - significantly higher then ever before - its all about business -moan as much as you want to Wenger actions are guided by the board as in any big business. Although he has probably said to them that he can do the balance between playing young players of potential and being competitive, and is failing miserably -Arsenal is now a brand not just a football team.

  14. Steveo 35

    Feb 17, 2012, 8:57 #18777

    I see there is the usual guff in the papers about the latest debacle triggering a 'clear-out' in the Summer. Honestly, five years in a row this sort of dross has been coming up. Oh well, there are still enough sheep that buy into the stories and top up Kroenke's personal wealth by renewing their season tickets. This owner, board and manager are turning us into a laughing stock - the West Ham of Europe; a feeder club to the elite of Europe (the elite of Europe that we supposedly were going to compete with when binning 93 years of history and moving to the soulless space dome)

  15. Herts Gooner

    Feb 17, 2012, 8:37 #18776

    Pathetic and predictable. Can't wait for Walcott to get a new contract so we can be stuck with him for another three years, nice fella, great sprinter, but not a top level footballer, no way.

  16. Sack the Arsene apologists

    Feb 17, 2012, 8:34 #18775

    Canada Gooner- See you're still trying to spread the blame, but Gazidis is an irrelevance, the only words of note to come out of his mouth being 2 weeks ago when he stated clearly that all the money that the club generates is available for Wenger to spend. More to blame are those that have consistently made excuses for the manager's many shortcomings over the past 6 years and seem terrified of life without Wenger. Change, and trophies, would already be here if it were not for those so forgiving of humiliation after humiliation, be it losing 4 goal leads, 2 goal leads to tottenham, carling cup finals, 8-2 defeats, worst start for 50 years etc etc., and they're just the more recent ones. After all we have money, and lots of it, just waiting to be spent. Some of us have seen this mess coming since the team's bottle went after the Eduardo game 4 years ago, and then in 2 subsequent title run-ins, but with so many on messageboards and more importantly in the stadium taking the football supporter's default position and blaming the big bad board, our slow, painful decline has resulted in the team we have now (minus our best player Van Persie in the summer obviously). So take a bow AKB's, and take your share of the blame for where we find ourselves.

  17. shay 11

    Feb 17, 2012, 6:27 #18774

    Not finishing in the top 4 and another empty season will surely justify big changes.Do board members really care any more.To see this great club thrive again we need David Dein back,because the way it looks now its only going to get worse.....

  18. Wenger Out

    Feb 17, 2012, 5:50 #18773

    Clearly Arsenal do not have the desire necessary to win the big games or compete against other big clubs anymore. It is rumoured that Wenger is soft on the team in practice, not training the lads at 100%, and certainly not making it a fight to be in the first team. He appears to have lost all ability to motivate anyone to win a ball or have any belief in their fellow players or the club. When you train at 75% than injuries pile up when you get in to real games. Every successful club I have ever heard of makes it a competition to represent, it isn't just handed to you because you are favored by the manager. Wenger has too much pride, he is stubborn, and his philosophies ar outdated. New blood is required to reinvigorate the team. Thank you Wenger for all you have done, but don't let the door hit you in the ass!

  19. Block G Gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 22:47 #18772

    That debacle was the final straw.....I simply refuse to renew my season ticket now. What a disgrace......no passion, no desire and no actual ability either. Leave our club now Wenger....just get out before we kick you out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Dan

    Feb 16, 2012, 22:46 #18771

    Imagine if that game was in rome,the locals would of had there thumbs DOWN

  21. tippy tappy never shooty

    Feb 16, 2012, 22:27 #18770

    THE WENGER BLUEPRINT FOR SUCCESS aka HOW TO RIP THE SOUL OUT OF A CLUB IN 6 YEARS :strip father figure gilberto of the armband and give it to gallas via club website**flog henry to death to prop up crud then sell**invent 4-6-0 formation**flog fabregas to death to prop up young unproven crud then sell**drop arshavin for fa semi and play all key players in wrong positions**pick almunia 100+ times then try to replace with Fabianski, play Denilson 90+ times**flog wilshere to death to prop up more crud**act like a petulant 6 year old and stomp off when team out fought / thought yet again**go for 3 month hibernation every summer having lined up good price for best players and replacing with permitless youths or long term injury recoverees**engineer move from our home in Highbury and build anodyne souless dome populated by spiritless zombies in red**invent 0-10-0 formation**

  22. GoonerRon

    Feb 16, 2012, 21:38 #18769

    For all those saying we are the 5th richest club in the world, that is income / revenue which doesn't take into account outgoings such as the mortgage on a £400m stadium etc. Now, I want to say that I accept that Wenger is far from perfect in a number of ways, but in the current climate I struggle to see what good looks like any more. For example, we have the 5th highest wage bill in the Premier League and are currently in 4th position. So are we punching above our weight? Allied to our net transfer spend which in the last 6 years is a net gain and one of the lowest 'outlays' in the entire division, again, are we overperforming? If we also consider the teams in and around us have spent nigh on £1 billion over the same period on players and some having wage bills in excess of their entire income, what is success? I want to reiterate Wenger is far from perfect and is culpable for much of what isn't good about us at the moment, I feel there needs to be some context as per above.

  23. R Meade

    Feb 16, 2012, 21:11 #18768

    Will you please stop with the bring back bond scheme Dein pleas do you not know about the history of the man and Arsenal fans? Did he get his wish and good old fans were all replaced prawn sandwich and all that. Who would have ever thought that fans would be praising the man in an Arsenal fanzine!! Just let him stay well away and let him continue to count all the pound notes he took from the club!

  24. lee afc

    Feb 16, 2012, 20:57 #18767

    Pretty much everything has been said...(excellent peice Kevin)....I loved the good times and they were'nt a million miles away unlike other clubs I can mention...but now must be the time to move on in the way of management..my beloved Arsenal is being drowned and torn apart by profit making, heartless, soul less, ignorant, faceless so called sports people........Please HELP

  25. draiggogh

    Feb 16, 2012, 20:35 #18766

    Assuming Flapianski plays on Saturday and we lose,and then lose to the Spuds ,by the time we get to the Champions league return fixture it will be all over.That would seem to be the time for a massive Billy Wright type boycott ,perhaps. That's the only way to get rid of Wenger. I still believe,poor deluded fool, that with some decent coaching a good man could get this team up to scratch.

  26. Dave te gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 19:49 #18765

    For me the day Wengers bubble burst was May 18th 2006.He took off Pires who could score or create a goal from nothing and left the sideways passing never going to score Hleb on the pitch(i,m sure you know the match i,m refering to),we lost and for me the decline started.I kept my season ticket for one more season and saw the total ineptitude that was developing and decided not to waste any more of my hard earned on that pile of crap,it hurts me to say it but i saw it coming.If Wenger stays relegation beckons,he's a busted flush living on past glories,he was ahead of hes time 8 to 10 years ago but now he's method's are dated and ineffectual,in effect he needs replacing because he has become embarressing to the to the football club.Interesting that in the after match interview he did not once refer to the great mental strengh that this squad has!!!!!!

  27. SilverGooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 19:47 #18764

    The sight of Wenger slumped in his seat (yet again!) said it all really. Here is one of Europe's once-great managers bereft of ideas, tactically clueless and unable to see the blindingly obvious faults with his team. As he has failed to instill any 'mental strength' in his team, we can no doubt expect an FA Cup exit on Saturday followed by a league beating by our next door neighbours. Arsene, Ivan and the equally clueless board....prepare for a very uncomfortable 3 months as an ever-increasing number of your 'customers' voice their dissent!

  28. The Dartford Gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 18:29 #18763

    Oh dear, deep down most of us knew this was going to happen sooner or later. Defeat i can take but lack of fight and pride in the shirt unacceptable. No heart, no sign of wanting to battle, this is Arsenal for christ sake! The defence was nearly as bad as the 8-2 debacle.The team last night was only a couple of players short of being our first choice eleven.Many fans have been saying Vermaelen and Koscienlny are our best combo but they have struggled before with big strong fowards, drogba comes to mind. Ibrahimovic seemed to scare the life out of them. I dont know where we go from here, a win at Sunderland is vital and we must get at least a draw against spurs. Things have got to change in the summer, many of the squad are not up to the task and will have to go, if Arsene cant do what needs to be done then he will have to go to. So sad it has come to this, sad times.

  29. jjetplane

    Feb 16, 2012, 18:11 #18762

    After the first defensive mistake in the first few kicks there was little doubt what was going to happen. This was no great AC side so 4-0 looked out of the question. After the first one went in and then seeing Walc..t throwing in the towel so early it turned into the sort of game we have been seeing all season. Only here Milan looked shocked with the ineptness of Arsenal and the big Swedish man was consoling our defence on the half hour. I had a poor internet link so I put on a DVD and only checked later to see 3-0. Last season I was still feeling gutted at such results. Now I see them as the only reality for Arsenal. We truly are a big clock turned back to the 70s. All that is missing is the lager.

  30. DW Thomas

    Feb 16, 2012, 17:48 #18761

    Same s..t all over again. Two worst defeats in recent years or longer and a coach who has no answers/solutions. Why was the Ox not starting? Why was Rosicky on the wing? Why do our players not work off the ball to support on offense? Szcz is not that good, terrible with his feet. His clearance led to the first goal. Djourou was awful again. Theo non-existant. What an embarassment the team and club currently are. We all know what needs tp be fixed. Evev TV is playing poorly more often. Why? Nothing will change unless Wenger changes or leaves. We are not even playing a fun to watch style anymore. Ramsey cannot create. No attacking threat means no goals. The lack of passing vision in a team that supposedly values possession and attacking is astounding. I have come to the point where my interest is starting to wain and I don't enjoy the games. Time and again we come up short and itis depressing to no end.

  31. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 17:27 #18760

    @ Ronster totally agree mate there were pictures on the arsenal web site yesterday of adams and bould wandering around the training ground what a waste what a waste.

  32. CanadaGooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 17:16 #18759

    well said Gman: and in the right order too. Not much will change by just changing the manager. save time now by asking for Gazidis's head too as a minimum or we'll be lamenting even louder next season with the new manager you all so crave. The bunch of donkeys we have as players wont get any better, they'll spend the summer asking for more money

  33. Fantastico

    Feb 16, 2012, 17:08 #18758

    If Arsene and the Arsenal board ran Barca; they would sell Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Busquets, Pedro & Pique...declare £300m pounds in profits, laugh all the way to the bank...and then brainwash Cuenca, Alcantara, Fontas, Dos Santos into thinking they can dominate the world...without having to buy Sanchez, Fabregas, Villa, Alves, Mascherano or Adriano....#onlyatarsenal

  34. Half Full

    Feb 16, 2012, 16:43 #18757

    Wenger's never going to drop Djourou if the alternative is the Squill.

  35. CanadaGooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 16:30 #18756

    It's always great to see so many comments after we lose. Where are you fellows when we win? Kev - you really are on a roll; your articles are now devoid of negative malice and they capture the essence of the matches played and your observations are spot on. What's particularly impressive about today's article is that you started with the root-cause of our problem, the club's attitude to failure and Gazidis with his lack of interest for anything football. The you moved on nicely to the group of donkeys we call a squad: all being nicely remunerated, while they allow a team of 30+ year old semi-retired players to run them all over the field. Gone were the good old days of being kicked off the park by Barcelona, at least then we had the excuse that we were undone by Messi. How old is Ibrahimovich again? goodness!! You then finished off with the attitude of the players, for which we certainly cant see past the fellow who builds these teams and forms their attitudes: Wenger. For all his genius, he has repeatedly formed a team, over 7 years, that simply cant deliver when it matters; it is quite clear what Wenger's limitations are: from being a manger, he moved on to being other things at the club in the absence of a sound footballing mind like David Dein (replaced by idiots like Gazidis, who thinks making excuses and balancing the account is what a club like arsenal's here for); this has obviously impacted Wenger's ability to do the only thing he should be doing at the club (managing the team and winning football matches). This result shows how much we've declined and I'm sure it doesnt come as a surprise to anyone. Now the team must get over that result quickly enough to perform in the FA Cup: but I'm sure we all know what's going to happen there too (and the excuses: EXERTION are already printed in wenger's post-match comments, ready to roll out after the game). All that said, did anyone think we were going to win the champions league? Wenger: for goodness sake, wake these donkeys up and focus on the FA Cup, win that and then we can begin re-building (without you); and hopefully after Gazidis has left.

  36. Gare Kekeke

    Feb 16, 2012, 16:26 #18755

    Excellent article as per usual Kevin. And I too have joined the brigade that has gone past caring. Shame really. The Milan massarce will surprise very few but many like me would have seen it coming. 5-6 years of first team squad underinvestment, an emphasis on untried youth to mature into world beaters without the required coaching or experienced heads to guide them and a neglect of the experienced heads has resulted in one hell of a decline that sadly Wenger cannot arrest. But the board have to take the blame too. Has anyone noticed how the 2004 collective (which should have won the European Cup in that same year btw) was dismantled within five years of that great triumph? And to think, Wenger thought last season's team was his strongest in his tenure in N5. I've said if before and I'll keep on saying it; Wenger deserves credit for what he has done for the club overall since 1996 but he should also leave at the end of the season with dignity as I don't believe there is light at the end of the tunnel. But if he is still at the club next season, just watch Project Youth Mk II kick in. I'll also state again, we are officially the 5th richest club in world football club (Again! And we generate more income than last night's opponents. How ironic), the 2nd in England, the 1st in London and officials at the club like Gazidis continously make out we have no money. Total BS. After the whopping £124+ wage bill, the annual £15m satdium repayments and other costs, there is stil plenty of money for Wenger to spend wisely on new players, but alas these new players would mainly be untried teenagers. So much for Ashburton Grove making us bigger. Wenger only wants European Cup football for the money that comes with it to pay the wages of the existing players (as he stated himself only recently) and attract new players, no doubt of the teenage variety plus the one experienced player per year. As for him possibly replacing Mourinho at the Santiago Bernabeu, dear deary me. He'll reliquish the title/titles that Jose would have won this season. I find it hilarious that the AKB's strongly believe that FFP will save us in the future. Dream on friends. Djourou handed a new contract for what? Wally reportedly seeking £85k a week? Oh dear. We should not be afraid of change. Wenger's decline is very sad and I believe I speak for all when I say he is better than this and he knows it.

  37. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Feb 16, 2012, 16:23 #18754

    I share the sentiments of many here who, despite being a Gooner for so so long, am becoming more and more inured to the increasing number of defeats. It's as if we've gone beyond the pain threshold to such an extent, it's beginning to feel as though it doesn't really hurt anymore. I must say though, what did make me shout at the TV last night was yet again seeing Wenger just bloody well sitting there watching yet another debacle with that bloody expression on his face - you know, the one that looks as though he's thinking "It's all sooo unfair that we get beaten, do possession statistics mean nothing to you!" £7m a year? You're 'avin a tin barf.

  38. Craig24

    Feb 16, 2012, 16:15 #18753

    Can someone please organise a campaign worthy enough to bring back David Dein. This man was forced out because he wasn't happy where the club was going, no ambition to become the biggest club in europe. Which is strange as a business model shouldn't your business be the best?. It shows how stupid us fans are because somehow their business model is working?

  39. win AFC

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:56 #18752

    No if's or buts WENGER out now, Why the hell should i pay good money just to see a load of crap, Why are people still sticking up for him (WENGER) is beyond me. that's how i feel let down, Who cares who takes over as manager he will do a better job.

  40. hils

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:51 #18751

    Now i know why we play the Elvis song 'The Wonder of You' at the beginning of each game. I just want to change a few words and ask just 1 question. (read to the song theme) 'When no-one else could understand you, when everything you did just worked out wrong, you gave us hope and ambition, now that ambition has gone. We were always there to lend a hand, in every game we saw, but now we're left wondering with no trophies at all. I guess i'll never know the reason why you chose to be as stubborn as you do, that's the biggest telling question we need to know from you.'

  41. Gman

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:49 #18750

    Whilst Kroenke the clown owns the club, the muppet Gazidis is his bell boy and Wenger is the delusional manager, we will be in the wilderness. It's so depressing.

  42. Jeff

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:43 #18749

    @Gooner Ron, I'm sorry mate "we don't know if he had money to spend" Enough of this defending the clown. The scum got Saha on a free! He scored two goals in his first outing, twice as many as chamakh. Wenger's tactics (I know what tactics) his players, his "motivation" I've got two tickets for Sunderland and they're going in the bin. If that lot, paid as much as they are, can't be bothered, why should we? Unbelievably, he spoke about "showing mental strength" at Sunderland. The fool is deluded. The other thing, often missed, is that he's convinced the gullible that 4th is some sort of success. We used to challenge for league titles. In all honesty and it pains me to say it, perhaps we need more "performances" like last night, before we get rid of the useless owner and manager. There used to be a football club in N5.

  43. Barry

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:36 #18748

    As others have said as long as Wenger is in charge i am beyond caring.Defeats like last night used to hurt now they are becoming the norm.I will always support Arsenal they are my club but i cant support the manager and his crackpot projects.At any other top club in Europe Wenger would have been out on his ear after 7 years without a trophy.But Wenger isnt a football manager he's an accountant.Just look at the Milan manager last night from the 1st min to the 90th he was on his feet barking out instructions.Our manager was sitting on his arse.We have a squad who with the exception of 2 or 3 are a bunch of under-achievers.How Djourou after being **** all season gets rewarded with a new contract is beyond me.But thats our manager for you reward the average while our best players leave through the exit door for pastures new and for winners medals.A 4th place finish this season will just paper over the cracks for another 12 months.And next season remember no RVP to get us out of jail

  44. Dorset Gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:35 #18747

    Last night was a disgrace and showed how far we've fallen over the past 6-7 years. For me it all started when we lost the CL final to Barcelona! top quality players left and were replaced with cheaper younger players of lesser quality than the players they were replacing. We need to stop paying these young players vast amounts of money until they have earnt it with there performances on the pitch. Maybe then we would have enough money to reward to top player like RVP with the top contracts they deserve! We as fans are paying the highest prices in world football to watch a bunch overpaid muppetts (excluding RVP)going through the motions each week! The only way this will change is if fans stop going to games - empty seat and lost revenue might spark the board into action. I'm not say we should protest like the Blackburn fans during games, but at the same time you can't sit and complain but then do nothing about it!

  45. au revoir wenger

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:34 #18746

    he finally ran out of excuses last night and held his hands up.Perhaps the penny has now dropped and he will do the decent thing .

  46. Ramgun

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:31 #18745

    Wenger will not walk away from £7 million per year and he will not be sacked. The Board have no power and no shares, only Kroenke can sack the manager and he loves Wenger and has no understanding of football or of sport in this country. The only way to get something done is for the matches to be boycotted. It worked in 1966 to shift the useless Billy Wright. I know - I was one of the shifters!

  47. Dan h

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:24 #18744

    Totally understand all the comments on here today nobody put there hands up & fought to the end to me there seemed an air of resignation the moment they took the lead.Milan are a good side imagine what Real or Barcelona would have done to us on that performance last night.We played like it was a damage limitation exercise.The state of our club was summed up for me last night we are on the slide big time.Not for the first time this season the only people associated with last night to come out with any credit are the travelling support.Outplayed,outfought,outcoached it has happened far too often this season.

  48. Bob The Gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:12 #18743

    One question - On what basis was Johan Djourou given an extended contract recently?

  49. AFCasap

    Feb 16, 2012, 15:09 #18742

    yet another disgrace!!!....people stop saying..."its a shame about wenger coz of what he achieved before" blah! blah! blah1....that's history...no archeology!!!!...he's cancelled all that out....by being the most arrogant ego maniac...whose ideas and tactics have proved to be garbage...not to mention all the false promises, lies and disrespect....we are a joke club/circus and he is the ringmaster...don't give him/the board your money they will consider that a good season

  50. Theo's Bikini-Line

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:55 #18741

    No GoonerRon, you are wrong. We DO know if there is money to spend. The Board have said it; Wenger has said it and even the accounts say it loud and clear. Although initially the stadium move had an impact on what Wenger could spend, the past couple of years have seen plenty available. The fact it hasn't been spent (or that it has been used badly) has been down to the manager and his choices and decisions. NO MORE EXCUSES!!!

  51. Pat

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:54 #18740

    @GoonerRon, thanks to fans like you who have kept making excuses on AW's behalf for 7years, we are where we are. The truth is, Wenger has made very bad choices with his playing stuff. Carrying deadwood and not investing in players who would have brough a backbone to the team. Rafael van de Valt, Scoot Parker, both went to Spurs at bargain prices despite being linked to Arsenal. This list is longer. AW has a fear of strong personalities and its been our downfall.

  52. Paul

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:36 #18739

    @GonnerRon credit in the bank for the golden years.Yes maybe two or three seasons without a trophy but seven?.Remember we are one of the top 5 richest clubs in the world.Would Madrid or Barca put up with a manager who last won something 7 years ago? Thats why Wenger would never take the Madrid job.Thats the problem Wenger knows he wont be sacked so he is under no pressure to deliver trophies.That cannot be right.Our club is stagnating under his management.Average players getting paid over the top wages all approved by the manager.Dumb buys like Chamakh Squillaci and Park.Players like Diaby getting paid £60k a week for playing 16 minutes this season.Our club is rotten to the core.We need a new manager new board and new team.It reminds me of the shambles the club was in before GG took over.

  53. kimo

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:27 #18738

    Yesterday's game was an abomination. Arsenal looked as if they thought they were playing in a Pub League match. Wenger's selections were atrocious. Rosicky on the wing ... LOL ... in place of Ox. Gibbs and Sagna as our outside backs. Both woefully unfit w/ Sagna visibly limping all over the pitch. And those were just a couple of the glaring issues. Arsenal, in their current state, is a fringe Champs Lge team at best and more realistically a team fighting for a Europa League spot. We can not run a 4-5-1 and expect to win especially if any of our starting 11 get injured. The drop-off is immense. Very few of the nonstarters have even the slightest sense of defensive tactics. It's time. We really do need a new manager ... a tactician. We are not Barcelona. We are not as talented and we do not work as hard. Time to move on.

  54. Ron

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:27 #18737

    GoonerRon - yes, i take your point fully re Stadium etc. Reality is that the truth (i must sound like a scouser!) should be made clear by both Wenger and the Board. That they choose to conceal it by pretending to be 'in it to win it' regarding any tournament is deeply insulting to the fans. Many bosses openly declare theyre at a Club with no cash (Moyes etc) and Boards often declare that they have very finite resources to use. Fans accept it and respect it and actually learn to enjoy battling v the odds and know where their Club stands. Why not Arsenal? Lets face it, weve never had a long 20-25 year trophy laden era as have Utd and Liverpool. Us older fans like me know well how being rubbish on the pitch feels. Arsenal could have openly told of the financial reality at the outset of this move ie 'belts to be tightened lads, the next decade is going to be a hairy ride' etc etc. They chose not to, preferring to peddle the myth so to reap the higher prices, while buying 3rd rate players (im being too kind to many of them) all **** behind the glittering facade of a stadium that in fact isnt liked by many i know who go to games. Like me, they prefer going away. I think that those who run the Club and Wenger have to be close to revealing all now. They must be aware of the rumblings and know their game is up. If its Wenger whos refused to spend significant funds to improve the playing side, its should be made known and he fired. If its the case hes chosen to work with hands fully tied, its now time he made a stand, told the truth and be prepared to resign over it (even that idiot O Neill did that at Villa). An apology on his part wouldnt go a miss either, for misleading those who pay his wages (us) and a declaration that his loyalty to the Board was misplaced all these years. He surely doesnt need to work by now and would soon be elsewhere if he does. Personally, i think hes tired and devoid of ideas. Rarely out of his seat these days, even at home. Its happens. Hes took the Club as far as he can. The Club needs seriously re energising. All of my views disregard the Tottenham factor by the way. That little apparent revival wont last long in my view. A few players are on the brink of leaving there. Once it happens they'll be 11th again where they belong.

  55. GaryFootscrayAustralia

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:24 #18736

    Copping four whacks of the slipper from a team featuring a Michael Jackson impersonator isn't too flash. If the team somehow manage to stagger to a fourth place finish in May, I shall laugh my head off in disbelief...same if they land the FA Cup, but then again New Arsenal doesn't really "do" the FA Cup anymore.

  56. Tony Evans

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:09 #18735

    Gooner Ron - for me it goes beyond Wenger's budget or lack of now. This spineless team is unrecognisable from The Arsenal teams I grew up with and have supported for such a long time and it is Wenger's team and Wenger's fault. If he doesn't resign in the summer he should be sacked and never mind what he achieved in his early years. Great shame I admit but now absolutely necessary.

  57. Highbury Boy

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:09 #18734

    After Djourou was so bad v Manu he was subbed at half-time. It was then reported that he was rewarded with an extended contract. I take it that on that basis Theo will get an even longer contract. Someone wrote that this squad is as bad as George Graham's. It's not,it's much worse. George had a magnificent well trained back 5 which Wenger was lucky enough to inherit. He also left Ian Wright. Added to this were DB and Platt,the signings of Rioch/Dein. Wenger will leave Wilshere (VP will be gone) and some very average players on higher than average long term contracts. If Wenger is serious about trying to win the Cup he has to play SzCz and VP. He can play any combination of the others. It doesn't matter. But if he plays Flappy and Chamakh the message is clear to all;he doesn't really care.

  58. Ronster

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:09 #18733

    There's no doubt Wenger is an intelligent fellow.Why then didn't he promote the likes of Adams and Keown once they had hung up their boots to take care of the gritty stuff that was once again missing last night.After all,Wenger worked with these guys day in,day out and could not have failed to appreciate they were standard bearers to the 'Arsenal Way'.

  59. Mr B

    Feb 16, 2012, 14:02 #18732

    I'm so angry. What an absolute joke. Professor Wenger sits there shaking his head like it's someone else's fault. Well hey YOU pick the team, YOU picked Walcott and Rosicky. The Ox is stuck on the bench and did more when he came on than Walcott does most games and when you did drag him off at half time and brought Henry on guess what...... we created chances!!! No Koscienly and Mertesacker in the back four our only option is the liability that is Djorou and he didn't let us down providing the coup de gras of the evening by giving away a penalty! Yes Ibrahimovic went down like he'd been shot but it just summed up the whole debacle. If you seriously believe this is a team that can win the league or the Champions League you are deluded for a so called clever man. Arsene knows? Yeah Arsene knows S***!

  60. allybear

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:58 #18731

    The talk of replacing Wenger etc has been said many times before. I agree he is living on past glories but this decline has been coming for a few years. For me im sick looking at his face&his ridiculous interviews on tv,its embarrasing. The RTE panel last night was excellent,3 panelists who made great analaysis&sense. It was said that last nights result was a sackable offence!

  61. Apollo

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:57 #18730

    If the criticism Wenger deservedly got back in 2009 had been allowed to get through to him and the baord instead of being stamped on would things have changed for the better? 3 yearsd down the line I'd really love to know if everyone involved in that cringeworthy RedAction 'support for Arsene' march still think they did the right thing. Or will they now admit they were wrong and that it has been to our long term detriment?

  62. Jekyll

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:56 #18729

    I saw on the telly last night AC Milan were playing some strange team in yellow. The way this team in yellow was just standing around and watching as Milan passed through them and scored at will I assumed it was a practice match before the game against Arsenal, but today I have learnt that was in fact the actual Arsenal team and that was the actual Championss League match!

  63. Joe S.

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:51 #18727

    Backpeddling, backpeddling, backpeddling, the midfield a disorganised clueless rabble, they lose the ball repeatedly, no one challenges the opposition, acres of space for them to attack our goal, our defebce are all over the place and so it continues. This has been going on since the Udinese games. It's another nail in Wagner's mystique that claims he cannot be replaced. From a tactical point of view there are at least six or seven coaches in Italy alone who would be able to organise this team. Wegner sitting on the bench like a stunned mullet knowing that the Arsenal brand has taken another huge hit as has his legend and it is all his responsibility.To add insult another sign that our performance has been seen as a joke around the world is my wife coming home from a hospital shift and her telling me how all the other midwive's were laughing at our team's "amaturish " display. And this is in Ausralia.

  64. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:50 #18726

    Perfect headline ed but in all honesty was any body really surprised, Dennis bergkamp was spot on when he described arsenal as predictable weak and no winning mentality can't believe wenger came out and told it like it was not an excuse to be heard did any player come away with any dignity last night ? apart from the ox when he came on the answer is no, your right at least he was trying to make things happen but thats no good when the majority of your team mates aren't capable.I have said on here before that djourou should never pull on an arsenal shirt again and is a liability and what happens he's given a new contract what does arsene wenger see in this clown every time he comes on he's an accident waiting to happen and it always does.Last night to use a couple of words you've already used overall shambles.

  65. GoonerRon

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:37 #18724

    @ Ron - ditto on respect of views (is it a name thing?!) Last night was a shambles - no if's, no but's - and clearly the manager and players are totally accountable for their level in terms of team selection / tactics and play on the pitch respectively. Personally though, I'm still not of the view Wenger should be sacked. His credit in the bank for his golden years has almost been used up for me, but I still come back to the fact that since 2004 we have been funding £400m for the stadium, which no other manager has had to contend with. A stadium is 100 year investment and we are feeling significant short term (relatively speaking) pain. In my view, to keep us competing in Cup finals, title run-in's during this time (especially when overlaid with the money being spent to Chelsea and Man City in this period) is almost overachievement. There are clearly failings that need to be addressed in terms of getting us over the line with trophies but the fact is we don't really know whether he's had money to spend or if his hands are being tied.

  66. Clockender1

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:34 #18723

    This one is down to Arsene and Arsene only. As soon as I saw the line up i knew we were done, and i think the team knew too. Why drop our best in-form player to the bench in favour of Ramsey ??? That gave the initiative to Milan from the kick off, the team was set up for a 0-0, which as we know we can't defend. Ox should have started, and we should have gone at them with Ox on one wing and Walcott on the other, who definitely plays better when Ox is on and he gets space. As soon as Ox came on, they had to double up on him, and he still caused them plenty of trouble, but by then we were 3-0 down (or was it 4 ?) and Walcott was off. Arsene is done, he's too cautious in the transfre market, and too cautious in the big games, which is a shame becaue of what he has done for us, but he's reached his sell by date. a sad day.

  67. Frank

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:09 #18722

    So in the last 12 montshs we have had 1.The Newcastle 4-4 2.Carling cup final defeat by a relegated team 3.End of season capitulation 4.Best player leaves.5.8-2 at Old Trafford 6.Worst start in 56 years 7.No league wins in january 8.Worse european defeat ever.9.10 points behind Spurs. And Wenger is still the manager

  68. David Oudôt

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:08 #18721

    Actually, sod the Missing Child picture with Arteta's face in it I suggested on the back of the next issue. Have a 'Where's Wally?' picture with each of the useless overpaid wastrels in there.

  69. Ron

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:04 #18720

    bunch - very true. It is a dud competition for Arsenal every season. There are in truth only 3 -4 Clubs who can win it, hence why its so revered beats me hands down. Its like Formula 1. They of the highest spend on driver, team and car development wins it.Im past bothering with it, but to keep seeing such an uncaring and gutless team gets me close to not bothering about any of it! The Club is so stale, its almost beyond belief yet we who go to games have know this point has been coming for 3 years at least. Wenger is now broken and for his ow health and good needs to walk or be fired. Most of this sqaud can follow him out of the door too. PS i thought the keepers hair summed that up last night. It looked like a girls bouffant from the 1960s, so laquered down to the hilt it must have felt like wire wool or brillo, yet not a hair out of place as he uttered his drivel after the game. Sums up the type of gutless, poncy, weak kneed, feeble useless, cretinous ornaments that Club encourages to 'play' for it this last 6 or 7 years.

  70. Mark

    Feb 16, 2012, 13:00 #18719

    Will the last one out turn the lights off please. RIP Arsenal Football Club. Rangers may in formal liquidation, but we've been in the process of another kind of liquidation for the last six or seven years. Weren't Sheffield Wednesday also once a great club....? Thanks for the memories.

  71. bunch

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:50 #18718

    This was a bad performance and a bad result but I'm with those who are beyond caring. We were never going to do anything in the CL. Participation in this competition each season is only about the money, there is no realistic chance of winning it. May not go on the 6 March, but then again it may be the CL football we see in a while. Wenger will go at the end of the season, he has to.

  72. David

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:49 #18717

    You reap what you sow.We reward average players with long term contacts and we wonder why the likes of Cesc and Nasri and this summer RVP want to leave.Gradually season after season we are getting worse.I urge every season ticket holder to write to the club NOW and tell them they wont be renewing their season tickets unless Wenger goes.As Ivan the Terrible said the managers fate is in the hands of the fans

  73. Ron

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:48 #18716

    Gooner Ron - i generally respect your views matey, but here youre wrong. On what they earn, a lack of fight and determination of any of those players (however bad many of them are) deserves the sack.Nothing else. The lack of ability is the bosses fault. Ive now at last crossed over the divide as far as hes concerned. He needs to go or be sacked. Hes right, it was bad how his team of journeymen crumbled all over the pitch to what was not a great side in Milan. It wasnt 'shocking' though. Wengers teams have been bottling it for years. Milan, with a little more effort could have beaten the Utd score in August. They didnt as they prioritised not conceding a goal instead.

  74. Stevesam

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:47 #18715

    As another famous deluded French person said about the peasants ( unworthy supporters ) "let them eat cake"

  75. GoonerRon

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:39 #18714

    Some of the doom mongering and conclusions about our definite demise in the next two games are over the top but in the context of last night's game there is no where to wide for the players and the manager. The lack of fight, determination and quality was there for everybody to see. They all need a massive rocket up their arse if we are to get a result on Saturday.

  76. Adekunle

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:34 #18713

    Oh dear. Remember though folks...Arsene is wanted by real Madrid! I assume they will be sending out that private jet to whisk him away to the Bernabeu as we speak after last night ha ha ha ha what a made-up story! Also remember folks...Arsene once went unbeaten a very very long time ago! That means he can spend the next ten years destroying our club, and it matters not!

  77. Howard

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:33 #18712

    Last night wasnt a surprise.At every club in football managers are judged by results except Arsenal.We give them £7m a year contacts.My heart sinks everytime i see a team that includes Rosicky and Walcott.Why are they still at my club?.Picking up £70k a week.And Walcott has the cheek to think he is worth £85k a week.Sell him and the rest of the freeloaders and replace Wenger.All those fans who went to Milan should have their fares refunded after last nights surrender

  78. Paul Heaton

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:30 #18711

    Kevin, You've hit the nail on the head with the comment about Henry leaving in 2007 because he couldn't wait for us to become a side that could challenge for the title. Here we are almost 5 years on and we're further away now than we were then. 5 years in which Wenger tried to delude everyone, especially himself, that those players would mature into the real deal. We've all moaned about the likes of Almunia, Fabianski, Eboue, Senderos, Squillaci, Denilson, Diaby, Vela & Bendtner but none of them played last night and we were still a shambles. Wenger spoke earlier in the season about how we were at the start of a new cycle so he's probably already on the way to convincing himself that Gibbs, Djourou, Ramsey, Walcott, Chamakh & Park are going to be the answer. The players that played last night aren't a vintage Arsenal side by any stretch of the imagination but, generally speaking, they're better than they've showed recently. We need a new broom to come in and sweep away the remaining dross and start again with the half a dozen or so players that it is worth keeping. Most important of all though is that we get someone that can instill some organisation, concentration, defensive discipline, passion & leadership. Because things have become so rotten it's now a massive job and we should prepare ourselves for the fact that it might well be too much for the next manager to sort out. Just as we needed the season of improvement and consolidation under Bruce Rioch after the last days of George Graham & Stewart Houston, it might well be the case that the next manager finds the job too big. The next few years might well be messy.

  79. Ron

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:26 #18710

    Keane got it right and its not often that nutter says anything worth hearing. 'They never turned up'. That team last night were a disgrace and an embarrasment to 125 years. Its time Wenger went now. Those players are coasting, the Clubs coasting and the vast majority of that sqaud want selling for the best price or just given away, many are that bad. If there are no takers for gifted players, just pay them off. Its cheaper than the long term cost to the Club of hanging on to them. RVP tried his best. He needs to leave soon to add some silverware glory to his skills. Hes 28 knocking on 29. Keep Jack Wilshere and Oxlade for as long as they can hold them. Ditch the rest. None are any great loss. Losers,skivers and backsliders are totally worthless and our Club is choc full of them.

  80. Clouless meets Louis XIV = Disaster

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:17 #18709

    The manager who sends out LAMBS instead of MEN is to blame not the LAMBS. I say again Wenger is a tyrant who believes in his own legend which is DANGEROUS. Arry has Jordon/Bond on left/right shoulder keeping feet on the ground and debating DAILY. Wenger does just what he bloddy well likes a bugger what the fans think. This is not a good thing. Arsenal were so ILL PREPARED and NOT FIRED UP last night it was an absolute joke to watch. You will see AC Milan are NOT that great. good yes but not great. Disasters are happening more frequently now - there is a reason for this ! Wenger lost the plot about 12-18 months ago but he is still with us

  81. Greg71

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:15 #18708

    Surely after that display no player (use that term loosely after last night) deserves a rest for saturdays cup tie,dropped from a great height perhaps ! At two nil down and needing a goal with an injury, why not bring on an attacking midfielder with champions league goals instead of hapless and attempt to get back in the tie ? Has anyboby heard from the skipper after the game with his thoughts,the only one i saw/heard was from our keeper,is that another nail being driven in to another season ?

  82. JER

    Feb 16, 2012, 12:08 #18707

    Why were so many gooners so optimistic? We were playing the Italian league leaders on their own ground FFS. We are 4th in a p*ss poor league, 10 points off 3rd and 17 points behind the leaders. Yes blame Wenger but the experienced players badly let us down - Sagna, Vermaelen, Song, Rosicky are all experienced internationals but were awful. Ramsey and Walcott continue to look out of there depth. Can't anyone at this club get hold of Song and tell him when to tackle and when not to tackle - what does Pat Rice do FFS? This was worse than the 8-2 becuase we had nearly a supposedly full strength side out. The most depressing thing is I don't see anyone in the club (other than Wenger) capable of making the decision of who to replace Wenger with.

  83. ed enough

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:52 #18706

    Last night was the beginning of the end of the Arsenal we have all known for the last 10 or so years....Our best players have come...and gone...with more to follow...our position amoungst englands elite top 4 has ebbed away, and we are simply also rans within every competition we enter. The enevitable defeat to sunderland then spurs are to follow the worst performance I can every remember in Arsene Wengers reign....Yes 8-2 at Utd was bad...but on another day we could have scored 8 ourselves...last night we offered nothing...and our future offers little more...Whats the point in finishing 4th every year, and gaining entry to a competition we will never ever win?....It's gone stale...It must surely be time to move Wenger aside....

  84. 71 guns

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:45 #18705

    For human beings time will always take away rather than give more, of course we can achieve and maintain but all too quickly the footballer can't run as fast, the snooker player can't pot, the singer can hit the high notes and the city trader is 'burnt out'. Yet Mr Wenger is still perseived by the board as the manager of 10 years ago. He isn't, he's aged, become increasingly stubborn and believes he still has the players to win trophies. He doesn't. He answers to no-one, meaning his sense of self belief and importance is as high as it ever was. It is so sad to see and the board are just as much to blame because they have let him sit in the chair throwing bottles and being booed while they keep their fingers crossed for another season of champions league football...

  85. Rich

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:30 #18704

    Djourou given a new three year contract, and no doubt a hefty pay rise. Nothing more to say really.

  86. James

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:26 #18703

    Worse defeat ever in Europe but im not hurting.I dont care anymore.I just want Wenger out of our club before he does anymore damage.Remember our clown of a manager gave Djourou a new contract last week.What do these useless players have to do to get kicked out of the club?Arteta is a better version of Denilson nothing else.We could have got Scott Parker for £5m but Wenger would rather have Song.Walcott should be sold this summer if anyone is mug enough to buy him.RVP will go and good luck to him.Like Cesc he deserves better.

  87. Theo's Bikini-Line

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:25 #18702

    Worst top flight defeat in 125 years; worst defeat in 115 years; worst European Cup/CL defeat ever; worst Arsenal squad in 47 years; and the worst display of mental strength and fighting spirit since the Italian Army ventured into North Africa 70 years ago!! So just how bad do things actually have to get before enough is enough?

  88. Gooner SA

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:22 #18701

    Arsenal did shade possession but Milan was more clinical. Agree about the profit over trophies. Bit harsh about former defence as Wenger did buy Kolo Toure and Jens Lehmann who weren't bad between 2003 and 2005 were they?!

  89. AugustusCaesar

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:14 #18700

    What an utterly meek performance. It's rare I feel so angry after a game. A lot of the criticism on here is way over the top but I wouldn't begrudge anyone to tear in to the players and manager after that pathetic display. The commentators were being very generous to us I thought; remarking on how well Milan were playing. They were efficient but they won in second gear, frankly, and the difference in the scoreline was down to our sheer defensive ineptitude and an unforgivable lack of effort. This is not a great Milan team. We could be here all day picking out individuals but nevertheless; we all know Theo Walcott is a total liability but his passiveness seems to be spreading throughout the team. Song, whose place in the team is totally safe, looked laboured, lethargic and disinterested. In a Champions League knock out game I ask you. As one of the more experienced players in the team he should be driving us on. Inspiring the likes of Ramsey who increasingly looks like a little boy lost. Passing the ball poorly is something I can just about forgive but to allow our opponents to dictate the game because we simply couldn't be bothered to run is totally unacceptable. We looked like we were playing in moon boots for the entire game. Shambolic!

  90. Bradys Screamer

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:12 #18699

    Thought away support was brilliant, was not happy to see le boss sitting there for most of the game, not trying to motivate players, but do not think he can motivate anymore. No hunger, no desire, Milan were good not brilliant, if you offer any good team that much space and time you will be punished. Can you believe Rosicky got m.o.m on AFC site? Says it all. Board are negligent turning a proud club into a cash cow and not caring about the supporters at all. Support the team, Wenger to leave and sack the board, we want our Arsenal back!

  91. alex

    Feb 16, 2012, 11:00 #18698

    Never ever have I seen such a gutless performance from this team. No passion, no fight. Milan constantly attacked our back four and made runs behind our backline. We didn't even do that, everyone just stood still watching the ball playing it around sideways. Abysmal. A f*cking embarrassment for the Club was it.

  92. sparksy

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:56 #18697

    Are we surprised by this? No. We all know what has been happening over the past few years and continues to happen so no need to repeat it here. Just to say that performance was bordering on the 8-2 Utd defeat. No passion, no fight and no tackling and we all know as supporters that is totally unacceptable. The time really has come to get Wenger out, they are his players, his buys and he must take most of the responsibility, although the players must take a long hard look. And take with him Kroenkes mouthpiece, Gazidis. What does he do? This must be the tipping point. It really is time we all voiced our opinion at games. PS - Walcott wants £85,000 a week. **** off somewhere else Walcott you useless waste of space.

  93. Steve

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:55 #18696

    Its the same every season.As soon as we play a half decent team in the CL we get knocked out.We are a poor team only Sagna and RVP can be called top quality.The rest are average.And that is all down to Wenger.This is his team.At the highest level Wenger is tactically clueless.A midfield of Squareball Arteta,Backheel Ramsey and the Brainless Song were giving a football lesson.Walcott is not good enough he never will be good enough he is a SPRINTER not a football.And just in case it escaped you Djourou was giving a new contract.Talk about rewarding failure.Wenger is not going to change so Arsenal are not going to change.We are on the road to nowhere.Only when fans actually boycott games will Kroenke listen.As long as fans turn up at the Soul-less bowl like sheep nothing will change.

  94. Gee

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:51 #18695

    Sunderland will beat us comfortably on Saturday. 9/5 for them is a great bet. then the week after Spurs will tear us to pieces. Yet nothing will happen to Wenger. It will be three games, three defeats yet he will still have a job for 2 years after this season. Purely because he will sell RVP and Walcott and get about £35m for them both. He'll promote a lad from the youth ranks for peanuts and say the future is bright At the end of this season, Wenger should walk. No pay off, no nothing he should be walking. Then get in Mourinho pay him the £10m a year and he will sort this shambles out. He will actually coach us how to play without the ball. Organisation. Application. Desire. Ruthlessness. He'd cut out the deadwood. More importantly people say he needs a big budget. We effing well have one! It will be £60m in the summer before he sells the garbage. And his purchases won't be of the 24 year old £40m player that everyone says it will be. It will be players who are around 30 that can come in and hit the ground running for 2-3 seasons whilst the youngsters improve. thats where Wenger has screwed up. the entire team are kids, no one to learn from or develop under. Then you get one or two gems from the bunch who are true class who get pissed off that the they are carrying the other and they naff off to another club to actually win rinse and repeat wenger out

  95. Bob

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:40 #18694

    As far as I am concerned, Wenger has had his final drink at the last chance saloon. Sunderland in the FA Cup is 'one for the road'. In the light of last night's result, the only option open to him is to play his strongest available team from the word go. That includes Szczesny and, it goes without saying, RvP. It also means The Ox and not Walcott. Even then a fitter, fresher Sunderland than last week may have too much for us - but at least Wenger's reign will have ended with a shred of decent judgement and a sense that he has gone down with (what passes for) all guns blazing. If he plays Flappyhandski and leaves RvP out, he will deserve to be hounded out with the biggest raspberry in history.

  96. Adrian Wagenaar

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:40 #18693

    As a team we are never more than a game away from a performance like last night. There was no surprise for me, in fact had Milan not lost interest half way through the second half it could have been Old Trafford without the two. The changes needed should have been made 3 years ago, what is happening now is as a result of "profit before performance" and the shambles that occurs every few months is as a direct result of a management structure that has past it's best. I am making my stand by refusing to attend matches until the club want to win things again. It is going to take a mass protest that hits the board's "cash flow" forecasts to really implement the changes that most of us want to see happen.

  97. Peter Wain

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:39 #18692

    Thw worse thing about ;ast night was that I dont blame the players. It is not theit fault that they are not good enough to play for Arsenal it is the management set up which allowed this ti happen. Two Yanks running a football club may ok for the NFL but they do not cut it in the premier league. They have allowed Wneger to buy sub standard players and we are now reaping the rewards of this policy. All of the panick buys at the end of the last transfer window have been complete failures and the only reason we are not in the relegation dog fight is because of RVP's goals. Next year without these and the lack of fight leadership and ability will be different and unless the Yanks rip up their business plan we could be in for aserious dose of the Championship. Get out now and let some who wants to invest in the first team take over.

  98. Tony Evans

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:26 #18691

    Chris Dee - you are spot on when you say that 'indifferent' is how a great many Gooners are feeling now. I have been angry for too long and I am ceasing to care anymore. Looking ahead to Saturday's game I don't think I am too bothered one way or the other. If a defeat would help get rid of Wenger I would take it.

  99. Will

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:24 #18690

    This isn't a football club anymore. It an Economics School Project for Mr Gazidis. "We can still survive if this happens" "We're self sustaining". This stupid crusade has cost us dearly. Last night was the last Away Champions League Match any of us are going to see for years to come. I've got to be honest and say that Rosicky put in more effort than half the team put together. Walcott annoys me so much because he is the most inconsistent player in football at this time. We need to cash in on the hype surrounding him and get 20m+ for him while we can. Liverpool would probably oblige. Arsene Wenger has over achieved given the squad he has in my opinion, which is no complement, but a statement of fact that the squad is NOWHERE NEAR good enough to compete on an international level. You could argue we didnt have Jack last night, but not even Jack could've turned around last night.

  100. Arsene is a Fraudster

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:12 #18689

    I think you lot are a disgrace, go and support sp*rs or citeh, we dont want you here....just kidding, just kidding! Thought I'd give myself a laugh this morning. Although I admit I still need to up my game if I want my jokes to be as funny as the joke dressed in yellow on that pitch last night. A circus being run by the biggest clown Strasbourg has ever produced. We are the laughing stock of Europe. Hoorah!

  101. Vip

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:02 #18688

    Kev good post as usual. Same old story and we are all going over the same ground. My belief is that the last home league game v Norwich will be a dead rubber so why don't we all make a stand together and boycott the game. Let's all spend our beer and food money in establishments around Islington on that day and let the club realise enough us enough. It could be our only chance to effect what the club do in the summer to address this decline. Time for talking has to stop let's vote with our feet!!!

  102. Andreas

    Feb 16, 2012, 10:01 #18687

    Before the match Wenger said "You have to be an optimist in this game otherwise it kills you". After the game "We are effectively out of this competition". Not too optimistic there. Sir Chesney sounded more like a manager than the manager. Wenger conceded for probably the first time in 15 years. He'll be gone in the summer.

  103. BringBackDene

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:59 #18686

    This yeam has bottled-it, plain and simple. If Messe was in our team it would be the same. I think Ramsey, Arteta, Walcott, Rosicky etc have the ability to play better than we see. Would Fergie tollerate this poor performance, I think not. Watching them is really painfull.

  104. JC

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:57 #18685

    The most useful thing I can add is that I'm with Marc Ollington's text to you,and the first sentence of Tony Evans' comment. I was past caring (though still care, in a deep sense if you see what I mean), and for a hardcore supporter since 1968 who has always cared passionately, that is saying something. The club is so obviously crying out for change.

  105. aj

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:55 #18684

    To sum up the decline at this club,we used to have Bergkamp and Fabregas as our second striker/attacking midfielder position,now we have Ramsey.

  106. Mick Appleton

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:44 #18683

    This result is far worse than the 8-2 at Old Trafford as with the exception of Wilshere (and maybe Gervinho) this is supposed to be our strongest team. TV had his worst game in an Arsenal shirt, Sagna & Gibbs were awful & we were totally doomed once Kos went off. I'm sure I wasn't the only one dreading the resumption of Djourou's defensive nightmare. We lacked creativity, heart or anything that could be called team spirit, the midfield were over run, Arteta couldn't get in to the game & Song looked one paced & didn't win a tackle all night. Ramsey & Walcott are just not good enough and I for one do not want to wait around for them to make the vast improvements they both need to make to be good enough. Looks like we're in for a very painful last 3 months of the season.

  107. Jonas

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:42 #18682

    The least you can ask for is desire and application when the good football is failing. When they disappears you have to question whether the players are actually interested any more. Ramsey and Arteta gave the ball away as if they had an allergy and their lack of elite level experience showed. Not their fault, they should be squad players. I'm a Wolverhampton based Arsenal fan and had the misfortune to watch that derby too, the similarities in performance were frightening. We know what happened to their boss... I would say the future looks quite bleak but that would suggest that there is some actual light, when I have had the feeling for the 18 months that we've become a black hole that consciously consumes any progression that could be made to convert it into a team that has regressed profoundly. Rant over.

  108. Judge Fredd

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:36 #18681

    Yup last night was a real horror show. Not easy viewing for sure. But thinking about it in the cold light of day, it was not a surprise. Basically Arsenal are in the last 16 of the Champions League - and lets be clear about this - we are not really in the top 16 teams in European football at the moment. Essentially by being in the last 16, we are punching above our own weight. Therefore a schooling was to be expected whoever we played (can you imaging us vs Barca....it would be a cricket score) We better start getting used to the idea that Arsenal PLC is not a force in the Premier League any more, let alone Europe. 99% of me was crying inside during/after last nights debacle - the tiny remainder was almost pleased that we should go through this hell if it means the start of the end for Wenger. A defeat in Sunderland followed by a knock-out blow by Sp*rs I reckon. It's going to be a very rough ride...

  109. fozzy's mate

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:29 #18680

    James while your method of selling rvp and investing may make some sense at other clubs at this one it does not. Sense vieira in 2005 we have cashed in on our top players and never adequately replaced them. RVP may well go for 30 million but will be replaced if at all by a far cheaper player as our valuations of top players are much lower than market rate. I see hazard wants to join spurs but is is irrelevant as any bid we made would be derisory in any case.

  110. GoonerGoal!

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:25 #18679

    I do not believe that anybody could have really been surprised by the possibility of this result. This kind of performance has remained in our locker since Old Trafford and we have caught glimpses of it even when we have somehow gathered points in some games this season. Wenger is now totally exposed as a man living on his past. A man without integrity, or he would have offered his resignation on countless ocassions since the end of last season. Remember, this is the same Wenger who last week decided to award the hapless Djourou a contract extension to 2015. Enough said?

  111. Great god this an awful place!

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:23 #18678

    We took risks we knew we took them, things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint. I'm just going outside, I may be sometime. These rough notes and our dead bodies must tell the tale. For god's sake, look after our people!

  112. LJB

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:21 #18677

    I am have never been so embarrassed by an arsenal teams performance as i was last night.No guts,desire or passion;Wenger's monotone interview tells you all you need to know about AFC circa 2007 to 2012; a grey,boring man lacking any emotion equals a grey boring team with no stomach for a fight.Wenger has been exposed in front of europes elite; no chance of Real Madrid now,Mr Wenger.I expect the wenger apologists will be out in force on certain other blogs today;they will talk their usual BS about how many fantastic youngsters we have coming through,and how we "do things the right way".It amazes me how people who actually fork out their hard earned money going to matches get told by the keyboard warriors they are not proper fans because they have the temerity to criticise the club and the manager.I suggest THEY make a 200 mile round trip every fortnight to watch this shower of sh**e before critising those that do.Wenger,Kroenke,Gazidis OUT.

  113. chris dee

    Feb 16, 2012, 9:14 #18676

    The big fat buck stops with Arsene. There is something drastically wrong at the club.We might not have the best squad at the moment, but that does not excuse the feeble tackling,the lack of marking,the lack of concentration and the lack of character. Its frigging obvious there is no team spirit,the players do not believe in the system they are being asked to play and that the players are divided. All of these problems are down to the manager. Countless contributors and posters have said the same things over and over but it's worth repeating. No defensive organisation,no commitment,no bravery,not one player willing to take responsibilty,no leaders,complacent,naive and worst of all,shamefully, not one of them proud of the shirt they are wearing. Just like the board and manager,the players feel, we as supporters, are to be tolerated and looked down on and that we should be happy with our lot. And comments from the manager that finishing second for the next twenty years is 'success' for the club is an insult to every fan to whom Arsenal is an important part of their lives. But the club have made it clear that they are not interested in joining the elite of football,being ruthless and winning trophies is beneath Arsenal,we are far to interested in 'doing things properly'. The players keep on showing lack of fight,the same mistakes happen so regulary, I can't even get angry any more and many fans are becoming indifferent which is scary.

  114. Tony Evans

    Feb 16, 2012, 8:37 #18675

    I can't remember the last time I was so bored during an Arsenal CL game. I am beyond angry now. The defence was a shambles, the midfield pairing of Ramsey and Arteta looked like a couple of clones of Ray Wilkins, although Ramsey did attempt a couple of forward passes that went out for goal-kicks if I remember correctly. So slow was Arsenal's build up play I could have made myself a cup of tea, come back to the TV, and we would still have been knocking it around the half-way line. What a myth our 'fabulous' passing game has become - it's boring with little or no service provided to our front man. I say man and not men because we only have one! This is the result of 6 years of under-investment in the squad and 6 years of Wenger pissing about with the likes of Almunia, Denilson and Bentdner. Lose to Sunderland on Saturday and that's another season over - oh of course I forgot there is still the 'trophy' of 4th place to fight for so we can witness more humiliations in next years CL!

  115. slowdeath since 2006

    Feb 16, 2012, 8:29 #18674

    we didnt even get beaten by a decent team...again how many times more..ac wont even get a sniff of the trophy,and we just rolled over..gutless,clueless..one decent player RVP and we dindnt pay peanuts for him..the rest ship em out!!!!!

  116. Gunner4life

    Feb 16, 2012, 8:14 #18673

    Now AW might come up with comments stating that players were tired after weekend matches.And there will be 2 divisions of Fans commenting , one group who wants AW to quit , and other group mocking that there are plastic fans etc.We don't have many options in defense , djourou's substitution is an example.Derby match will conclude AW era probably. I am not discouraging , but we have to accept the fact when we see our rivals play a better football.It wouldn't have been fairy tale, if Henry didn't came out as substitution and scored against leeds.You need a 34 year legend to come and score against a championship side at 80th min? None were near to scoring that night.Even Sunderland game was an example , Henry does it coolly at 90mins , and what were the other players doing ? 7-1 win against a relegation battling side who were down to 10men isn't a boost for a side.And this is how players give send off to a legend , whom they thought was a boost in dressing room?Even if we have a unbelievable 2nd leg win , this team won't win trophies.Slow passing against a good defensive Italian club and you expect them to allow us to pass inside box and score ? We ran about 41 km in 1st half without shots on target and milan players ran less than 30 km having 9 shots and scoring twice. So it means only one team played football at 1st half.I have been supporting since i was 10 years old , i cant bare the club being destroyed like this.Players should understand that they are breaking hearts of fans around the world .Don't even wish to comment about AW.Only god can save us.

  117. james

    Feb 16, 2012, 8:10 #18672

    Well I have always said we need to be knocked out by an average team and not qualify for the champions league for the management and board to wake up I only wish we went into the Europa cup this season to have the slimmest chance of silverwear. We need to change, this season Wenger was the only manager who could over achieve with this team and get us to the top 4 (main objective again). But next season we need a new man give him a whopping purse and buy some decent players. This change I know u guys prob won't agree with me but sell RVP if he won't sign a new deal before the players holidays get rid of Rosicky, Song (yes song he's slow across the ground and doesn't pass the ball quick enough slowing every attack to a stop 3 good passes a year isn't good enough), Djourou, Diaby, Arshavin, Walcott, Chamakh, Park, Bendtner, Vela, Squilaci, Almunia, Denilson. Who will buy these players? Anyone for a low price even if we make these sales including the over hyped Song (dont get me wrong he's a good player but not for arsenal) and RVP that makes 85-95 million added to the 60 million we already have from Fabs and Nasri and will ruduce god knows how much in wages. Then promote from within Aneke and Afobe prob our best youth boys added to Miyaichi and Oxlade-Chamberlain and buy a new most of the players above (my selling list) have hardly made an appearance this year so we won't miss them in terms of strength and depth. Then start from rock bottom and build up again even if that means no europe next season a sacrifice yes a huge one but one as the season rolls on we desperately need to take.

  118. Simon

    Feb 16, 2012, 8:03 #18671

    There's a tide in the affairs of man....

  119. 5yrs hard labour

    Feb 16, 2012, 8:00 #18670

    sorry but milan were not that good, fact!this Arsenal team just did what they always manage to do..lots of the ball but do nothing with it..put the defence under a bit of pressure and they fall apart..pathetic shambles..again

  120. Suur Ek 1968

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:58 #18669

    Kev, as always areally good read. Groundhog day since 2005. Are we really the 5th 'richest' club in the world ? If he really has been constrained and if he really cannot use the turnover that comes in every year....then I support him half way - BUT -he still cannot pick a defender and train defence. He still does not improve players individually ( Walcott, Djourou , Diaby, Denilson, Bendtner, Vela, Gibbs, Rosciky, Song, Arshavin, Chamakh etc etc etc ) and he still is not able to instill spirit.In context and together, our players are paid MORE than the Milan team ! I wonder if he even allows tackles and physical contact in training ie do they train to be urgent on the pitch ? Oh for a Peter Storey...:))

  121. Fozzy's mate

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:51 #18668

    I give credit OGL for one thing. He didn't for once try to dress it up in anyway using the words shocking and disaster as descriptions of our display along with "worst ever". Infact Milans manager said it is shame they didn't score more when they had the chance! Abject surrender and this wasn't an irresistible force on fire but a team we were favourites to beat over 2 legs. A rudder less ship with Arsene and Pat glued to their seats. If Kos is out for any time we are trouble as the likes of djourrou the rugby player and squillaci will be seen on a regular basis. Vermaelen all over the place which may be as a result of playing 10 games at left back, however I don't like his moaning about it, shut up and get on with it. If Saturday goes wrong followed by adverse league results I wonder how many will be at the 2nd leg. However despite all this, I think the board will see reaching the knockout stage as completing half of the double with the other half being secured if we scrape into 4th place. Cue the open top dough counting parade in Denver.

  122. Andrew Cohen

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:47 #18667

    The most interesting thing last night was the illustration that Milan gave as to the basic things which are required from any top footballing side. Their defence was solid. They know how to keep the ball. They pressed and tackled. Their passes seldom went astray. Their positioning to make themselves available for the ball was a constant. There never was a clearer illustration of how far we are falling short and why we are. It has less to do with money than it does with the basics.

  123. aged gooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:45 #18666

    Wenger made one big mistake in playing Ramsey in a four midfield when three was all that was required with Ox on the left. How many times has Wenger been negative. He is in charge of a squad similar to that that George Graham had towards the end of his management career at Arsenal. It is time for him to go and for David Moyes to replace him

  124. chrisy boy,

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:34 #18665

    Total disgrace ! dont know where to begin. The whole club is in free fall, led by a owner who is never around, a Ceo who is a mouthpeace and a puppet of the owner, a manager that is now so out of his depth he will go on to be remembered for his bad times rather than his good, a medicle team that have players rather trust some witch doctor ( remember rvp and that horse stuff ) a goalkeeper coach that played for bournemouth and who had a hip replacement opp a few years back, a first team coach who can now collect his free bus pass, and a squad without any leaders with possible only 7 or 8 worth keeping. On a positive note i did a 6 team accumalator with ladbrookes on tuesday 5 came in on the tuesday night and i was waiting on the result of our game for the outcome of the bet, who did i pick !! Thats a no brainer home win, my winnings could pay half towards a club level season ticket for next season, now do i save it for that or not, never thought in my 32 years since i went to my first Arsenal game i would ask myself that question

  125. Esso

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:30 #18664

    Nicw working of the term 'AKB' in at the end there. Was getting really worried you were n't actually going to mention it.

  126. Nutty's Right Peg

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:30 #18663

    Some great points Kevin, like you say it's not all bad news, the board are trousering a tidy sum at the supporters expense. Financial fair play is all well & good but of little concern to a once mighty club that'll be finishing 8th or 9th behind the likes of Stoke. Still, again not all bad news as all those moaning about not being able to get tickets will be laughing, they'll be thousands available at the souless bowl on a match by match basis. Whose looking forward to Sunderland & Sperzzz, nope, me neither. A f*****g shambles. Even Wenger doesn't fancy our chances of progressing into the last 8, things are worse than we feared fellow Gooners. The pre-requisit of any two-legged tie surely must be to still be in the tie at the end of the first match.

  127. Mark

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:20 #18662

    Let's hope the club pay for the 5000 fans who would have had a torrid time (were the still 4 toilets in the whole away end?) in Italy. Watch us crash and burn when wenger play flapanddropski this weekend to give him a game!

  128. Camgooner

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:20 #18661

    What can be said that's new? We looked good until Milan scored then had no answer. We had 57% possession but Milan had more shots. Our chances were half chances. Milan had shape and discipline in defence. We, errr… didn't. Another defender got injured. We gave away a panicky penalty rather than a free kick this time. I write this with no approved comments yet on the site but can predict the responses: back the team, still in the FA cup, etc. In particular "you didn't say that after Blackburn", as if that makes up for the defeats, poor play and lame excuses. I'm worried: TH goes and if you take his efforts out of our recent form we didn't have the resurgence. Not a happy gunner!

  129. Wombledin

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:19 #18660

    We came out in canary yellow and played like bird brains. The colour is appropriate since it looks like lumpy custard. With Mertesacker and Koscielny now out injured its all over Rover and we'll struggle to finish 5th now. Losses to Sunderland and the spuds next might see "Wenger Adieu" banners out.

  130. Rippy

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:17 #18659

    Did anyone truly think we had a chance. For ****s sake we are where we are. We spend **** all every year and have a manager who is sadly out of date. The question we should be asking is can he still motivate. On last nights performance the answer is up in the air. Wenger was a truly great manager. I really feel for the away fans ****ing brilliant as usual. Shame the players manager and board dont love the club like we do.

  131. Vino Deano

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:08 #18658

    Bring back David Dein. He knows what it takes to be successful and seems to be able to manage Wenger. Otherwise Wenger has to go quickly - the decline is accelerating and real damage is being done. Yet with Silent Stan and his lapdog Gazadis in control, whoever comes in will find it difficult to change things around. That's where the real problem lies.

  132. Gunners oh gunners

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:06 #18657

    You can't blame the players eventually. You've gotta look st who's in charge at the top. Wenger buys these players, Wenger trains with these players, He should have been screaming to the players to mark tight throughout the match. We need a football coach, not an economist in charge

  133. Eddie Kuh

    Feb 16, 2012, 7:02 #18656

    And Le Boss repeatedly rewards such useless players like djourou & rosicky with new contracts. Someone please tell me what role rosicky plays in this team to warrant a starting spot. He's not a winger, not a holding midfielder nor a creative one. Songinho (our #6) is more creative than he is. He doesn't score ANY goals etc etc. Wenger OUT; Herve Renard of Zambia IN! He's a French Pep Guardiola in the making and surely can't be any worse!!

  134. Rich P

    Feb 07, 2012, 12:53 #18301

    You're right, we changed the formation to effectively build a team around Cesc, witj which we never won a trophy! Let's get back to the 442 we used between 97>05 - oddly enough even a player like Chamakh playing regularly in a 442 could improve as the system evolves. Probelm is though the central two midfielders need to be strong ball-winners to make 442 work - we don't have one at the moment.....

  135. Horace

    Feb 07, 2012, 2:12 #18291

    I just really don't think this is right at all. Yes, we are basing way too much around Aaron Ramsey these days and I agree he has a lot of work to put in, but who the hell is going to play outside mid for us? Walcott? Arshavin? They both don't run back whatsoever in defense because they are eitehr attacking players or just don't care (in Arshavin's case). That leaves us with the Ox to hold down one flank and a risky side for people to bang down and score goals. Also who's playing up top with Van Persie once Henry leaves? Chamakh and Van Persie are both target men, and two target men does not make a pairing. Potentially Chu-Young Park but we have to see what the kid's got first before we can make that kind of assumption. For now we gotta roll on with the 433 in my eyes because Song - Arteta and Ramsey are the best 3 we have to work with in our complete midfield. Funnel Rosicky coming into form and potentially Coquelin when he can finally be released from defense and I think our reinforcements will be fine. Couldn't disagree more mate, best be taking your "Fabby" talk elsewhere, because people still believe this team and this manager can win.

  136. SteveO 35

    Feb 05, 2012, 12:08 #18198

    Like all formations, it can work with the right players. The two wide midfield / forward players need to have a lot of discipline, pace and be prepared to put in a hard shift. The Ox did well there yesterday, but for too many years we've put players out there like Arshavin that leave the full backs as sitting ducks when the opposition bomb forward. Any of the teams that play out and out wide men can expose us in that position. Nani and Valencia keep doing it and even smaller teams like West Brom last year showed us up down the flanks.

  137. Scott

    Feb 05, 2012, 3:54 #18189

    Does anyone else see Ox as a potential striker,with RVP playing as a true #10??? I think too, that Ramsey has got into his head,mainly due to fan pressure that he is our Fabregas replacement......he's a totally different type of player,and his intentions are stopping him playing at his best.

  138. CanadaGooner

    Feb 05, 2012, 0:15 #18187

    Methuselah, you're a true PROPHET of footie mate.

  139. Ron

    Feb 04, 2012, 15:45 #18184

    Oh dear, Methuselah, Thats awesome. Made me laugh out aloud that did. Thanks pal!!! Gotta laugh at whats happening otherwise we d just climb the walls Great stuff.

  140. fozzy's mate

    Feb 04, 2012, 8:38 #18177

    Jekyll and Joe Fitz - good points re OGL running em into the ground but its an obvious consequence of having an inadequate squad in terms of numbers and quality. You basically play your few quality players to death. Well actually what you do is play em when injured or knackered then send em to the Colney medical centre which has recently been renamed as the withensahw surgery as sending em there you have as much chance of seeing em again as you did with a visiyt to Shipmans manc graveyard/GPs practice. A decent squad allows a tired player the odd game on the bench or the beach to recharge. Jack was played to death as an 18 year old and sent to the colney horror film set. How sensible when 2 central mid palyers are out all season to send Frimpong to Wolves. Simon I chuckled in a childish manner when one wag told you to get your head out of Wengers ass during last years collapse. Your cry re 442 is that of a desperate man as a change at the top is needed big time.

  141. Ian Fraser

    Feb 04, 2012, 1:21 #18174

    Sorry but have to diagree. You take a 451 into 442 and you are then putting emphasis on a formation of wing play / attack. Walcott, Arshavin, Alex OC, Gerviniho. Really? There is a reason he's using Song, Rosicky, Ramsey, Arteta -he has no choice. They are more experienced and (in the main) better players who are more capable of putting the ball into the box than most of the wide players. 442 would hinder - ie. Van Persie gets poorly crossed balls behind him, in front, too wide, no mans land. We've all seen it happen time and again. We have probably the best natural talet in the premier league in RVP, but hes not a magician. The team dont have the vision. Its amazing hes scored so many with a team at probably no more than 30% of potential. In all seriousness Simon, who would you play up front with RVP tomorrow in a 442? We need JW back in to control and spread play. Put Song behind with JW and Arteta as creative partners in the middle. Put Ox / walcott and Gerviniho wide, and RVP up front. Back 4 we already know. Forget 442, we lose our midfield strength.

  142. Gare Kekeke

    Feb 04, 2012, 0:55 #18173

    4-3-3 is the best formation for us as we lack a proper 'No.9' and we have a plethora of central midfielders who can't/won't adapt to playing in a wide midfield position. But I agree with CanadaGooner & Tony Evans, the formation is not the issue. I agree too with Jekyll, Wenger is still cut up over the loss of Fabregas & Nasri as he expected them to be at the club for many years. Remember peeps, Francesc with the poster child of Project Youth and was held as the prime example as an antidote to the scattergun spending of the 'petroldollars' of Manchester City & Chelsea. Funny he he says f*ck all about the spending power of Paris St Germain in his native homeland across the channel. A change of manager of badly required in the summer. I've said before and I'll say it again, Wenger deserves credit for all overall outsatnding contribution to the club and for that, he should step down as manager at the end of season so he can leave with dignity. But I fear whether it be this summer or within the next couple of years or so, Wenger will handpick his successor to the board in the same way he chose Gazidis, such as the power he still has with the board.

  143. AugustusCaesar

    Feb 04, 2012, 0:38 #18172

    I don't think the formation is the issue at the moment. Some players are suited to it, some aren't. Granted our trophies were won under Wenger with a 4-4-2 but this is when we had Patrick Vieira who was taylor made for this formation. The trophy-less years started when we still had a 4-4-2. Many fans clambourewd for a change of formation when it became obvious Cesc Fabregas was being asked to do too much in a central two. Hit the manager with whatever stick you please but this is a red herring.

  144. Methuselah

    Feb 03, 2012, 23:59 #18171

    There came a great famine unto the Land of the Arsenites, yea that lasteth seven years. And the people did chide their king and uttered harsh words against him. And he spake unto them saying, ''Did I not lead you to the Promised Lane wherein we have dwelt full fourteen years ? Did I not smite the Horned Beast of Totteringham and cast it into the Darkness?Did I not build the New Temple so that cash doth flow upon the Land of the Arsenites like unto a river swollen by spring rain?'' But they heard him not for they hungered after the ware that is silver. Some did look to the East and did covet the riches that dwelt in the Land of the Uzbekites. Some waxed wroth against the servants of the king and demanded that they be cast out and replaced by servants who rejoiced in working in the land of the Arsenites and who would toil lustily in the fields for the full 90 minutes and who buggereth not off for a few extra shekels. And some did homage to the craven idol that bears the mark 442 but knew not that in all the Land of the Arsenites there could not be found ten servants to worship that idol.

  145. tippy tappy never shooty

    Feb 03, 2012, 22:10 #18170

    You opened a wound!!! This formation was crap even when we had Cesc. The only time it nearly looked like working was when we had Adebayor with pre injury Eduardo playing off him - almost 442. 442 would put the opposition on the backfoot and play to our attacking strengths. It would allow players to work in sets of partnerships and any fool can see this. 433 only works for Barcelona because they have a goldem generation led by a generational unplayable genius in Messi Wenger is a busted flush who runs player after player into the ground propping up his youth vanity project - Henry, Fabregas, Wilshere and now RVP. My passion for this club died with the way last season collapsed and revealed the true soulless heart of Wengers vision - this was confirmed this season by a trip to that anodyne ****hole the Cameldome that replaced one of the loves of my life - Highbury

  146. johnnyh

    Feb 03, 2012, 21:49 #18168

    absolutey spot on pal. football isnt rocket science. change the formation to 4-4-2, get a left footed player on the left wing,a right footed player on the right wing and get a few more players arriving in the penalty box.

  147. Shropshire Lad

    Feb 03, 2012, 19:55 #18167

    God, stop and listen to yourselves. Withering on about formations when we all know the problem is the midfield players are not good enough and apart from Sir Percy the 'strikers' dont know where the goal is! I'm off to book my appointment with the Psychiatrist because for the first time ever I find myself agreeing with Canadagooner which mean I'm taking a rest from hunting him down! What's worse is that it's clearly a chronic psychiatric problem as two weeks ago I agreed with something Mandy Dodd wrote. one flew over the cuckoos nest!

  148. Stuart L

    Feb 03, 2012, 19:40 #18166

    Quite simply in our 4-3-3 our fullbacks get over run as the usual wide players either don't bother running back to protect (Arshavin) or are simply too lightweight and ineffective (Theo, bless him) Add to this the fact that Song is so often the wrong side of his man and it is a disaster waiting to happen defensively. On the attacking front if either of our inaffective wingers do manage to get a ball over there is only RVP up there as the other wide player is still hugging the opposite touchline and unless Ramsey has made a forward burst no-one else busts a gut to be on the end of things. A poor, poor state of affairs that has been allowed to reach its almost pathetic inevitable conclusion

  149. chrisy boy

    Feb 03, 2012, 17:33 #18164

    agree to a point with the 4-4-2 formation , certainly at home and several away fixtures, would only revert to 4-5-1 at the tough away games A.C Milan for example , only problem is wenger is very poor on tactics as we have seen time and time again. As for tomorrows game surely the powers that be can come up with a better method of protest than putting black bin liners on empty seats, i expect us to win but with only 50,000 there to see it, i want my Arsenal back ! !

  150. There is a serious DISCONNECT

    Feb 03, 2012, 16:16 #18162

    i would luv to believe it is a formation problem but it really isnt. it is a coaching /management / quality of players problem. Wenger has really got it wrong with some of the guys we currently have on the books. added to that wenger sorry whinger has lost his touch if he ever had it. he really has. however we have a board and owner that like the way Whinger makes profits from buy, train up, sell. they really like this, dont underestimate this. we really do have a serious disconnect problem here today between what many fans still think Whinger and the board/owners are thinking about daily and what they are actually thinking about. they are happy today !

  151. Joe Fitzpatrick

    Feb 03, 2012, 15:58 #18161

    Jekyll- you make an interesting point regarding the over use of players by Wenger.

  152. Wenger Out!

    Feb 03, 2012, 15:51 #18160

    Good to see you are focusing on the periphery as usual. It does not matter what the formation is if the players are not good enough (which they are not) and the Manager has no tactical nous (which he does not). Let's re-arrange the deck chairs as the Titanic goes down. Deluded, as ever. Get Wenger out! (that is the solution).

  153. Jekyll

    Feb 03, 2012, 14:56 #18159

    Perhaps Wenger is still grieving over Fabregas and so can't bear to part with the system as well as the man. What is certain is that 4-3-3 will remain for the season and Ramsey will be played until he picks up a stress-related injury. For someone with a supposedly scientific approach, Wenger's record of running players into the ground is pretty strong.

  154. Seydou Olofinjana

    Feb 03, 2012, 14:31 #18158

    Errr...and who do you suggest using as the second striker then? Chamakh? Or perhaps you meant Park! LOL. A traffic cone it is then...the problem isn't the formation. The problem is that the manager is incompetent and clueless and more importantly, the players (bar RVP) are crap. Question: if Stoke switched to a 4-3-3 would they finish in the CL places? If Leverkusen change their formation to a 8-2-0 will they beat Barca in the CL? If Arsenal had played 4-4-2 at OT would they have won? Of course not. Reason: NOT GOOD ENOUGH, rubbish managers.

  155. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 03, 2012, 13:56 #18157

    good piece simon i think you have been calling for this for a while but your forgetting one thing that would be admitting he got it wrong and as we know arsene doesn't do admitting when he's wrong and with the mediocre players we have at the minute i'd be worried that they would even balls that up.

  156. Gee

    Feb 03, 2012, 13:40 #18155

    I'll never, ever understand why we don't play 2 up front at home. Wenger already says himself that he won't change the set up, but as you point out we don't have the players to do it. I think Ramsey could well be an Arsenal legend. He as created the most goal scoring opportunities for us this year with 43 and VP is next at 22. In a 4-4-2 Ramsey could play as an up and down winger like Parlour used too. He has a fantastic engine, can cut inside, track back and give energy to that position. Arteta could play in the middle with Song, or indeed Ramsey depending on what was needed at a given point in the game. It may be worth playing VP with Walcott up front, both can drift wide, both can latch on to passes. Walcotts career is down the toilet on the wing. I'd play Chez, Sagna, Verm, Koscielny, Santos;Ramsey, Arteta, Song, Oxo; VP, Walcott

  157. stephen wales

    Feb 03, 2012, 13:31 #18154

    The current system would work if our 2 wider players and our midfield players were capable of putting the ball in the net and RVP was a more clinical striker RVP-19 goals 104 shots Theo-3 goals 54 shots Gervinho-4 goals 33 shots Arshavin-1 goal 26 shots Chamakh-1 goal 5 shots Ramsey-1 goal 44 shots etc etc we are creating the chances but as on Wed night we are not putting them away

  158. clockendpaul

    Feb 03, 2012, 13:30 #18153

    We have few quality players, and an inept stubborn manager thats unwilling to learn from his mistakes, talking about him changing formations now is just being more sidetracked from the problems we have. You do make a good point simon but can you imagine if he did change it and we moved up a place or two, and had a good run in the cups, my god we would have him being offered and most likely signing a new contract, no thanks. The manager has to go, end of...

  159. Ronster

    Feb 03, 2012, 12:59 #18152

    Brian Clough:''Players lose you games not tactics.There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.''

  160. Dan h

    Feb 03, 2012, 12:56 #18151

    The formation isn't the issue.The quality of the squad available renders 4-4-2 unworkable anyway.The modern 4-4-2 basically has a deeper forward behind the main CF a Bergkamp roll basically.RVP apart there is no other forward of quality available.Even when teams like Utd play the 4-4-2 system Rooney is instructed to drop deep when they havn't got the ball to make up 3 in midfield.Until we buy quality or at least hungry players the formation won't be a main reason in us constantly falling short.

  161. DW

    Feb 03, 2012, 11:22 #18150

    4-4-2 Chesney Sagna, Kos, TV5, Santos (when fit) Ox, Song, Arteta, gervinho Theo, RVP (Theos pace will stretch the defence, if not his finishing)

  162. aj

    Feb 03, 2012, 10:37 #18149

    I stongly suspect that as a decent striker costs £25 mill plus,it suits Wanger to play an extra midfielder,which he can pick up for £10 million or less.It's always about the money with this lot.

  163. Peter Wain

    Feb 03, 2012, 10:28 #18148

    The problem is nt the formation or the tactics it is the lack of quality throughout the squad. Why we have not invested in players is quite beyond me and as the has happened for several years the future for us is bleak. If you think this season is bad what about next with no RVP. We sign Henry and he is then injured. Every year we have a shed load of injuries and we never learn. We need people at the head of the club to be fulltime. Get the yanks out now and maybe we can have some one in charge who will go to games rather than a game a season.

  164. Ron

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:47 #18147

    Players make teams not formations and Arsenal just dont have the players to create a strong team.

  165. Jeff

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:45 #18146

    Agree to a certain extent, but you're missing the main point. That is the complete inability of the manager to be flexible during matches, by changing tactics. How many times do we see pre planned substitutions, after 70 minutes, with absolutely no regard to what's going on on the pitch? Witness the OX v Manure and against Bolton. Pre planned and not noticing that theo was contributing zilch, as usual. He said after the Bolton game, "we went for it with four strikers" What? We don't have four fuc**g strikers!

  166. Jason

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:40 #18145

    Agree completly. The problem with Arsenal is we play too many players out of their favoured positions. I know he's not flavour of the month, but Arshavin playing as number 10 behind VP would be ideal.I remember Wenger played the great Dennis Bergkamp out on the wing only a couple of times and he hated it.Arshavin hates the wing also, yet plays there all the time, no wonder we don't see the quality he has.We could also play VP in the number 10 role and give Theo a chance along side him. I know his finishing has not been up to scrtach recently, but he would cause far more probelms there. Even Chamakh would benefit along side either VP or Walcott. In the event we need to rest VP, i think Chamakh along side Walcott could even work. This would also allow us to rotate centre midfield a bit more instead of running them into the ground like Wilshere. In my opinion going back to 442 would give us far more options and stop us becoming as oh so predictable as we are at the moment.

  167. David Sansom

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:37 #18144

    I also totally agree with this. It just does not work. Although, thanks to RVP, we still score a decent quota (not quite enough but decent) our defensive problems began the day we started playing that way. We have conceded more goals than I can ever remember over the last few seasons and its killing us. The main reason for our lack of trophies and downward spiral is simple down to the amount of goals we concede. We get frustrated and blame Walcott and Arshavin et all but if we stopped letting them in we would be ok. I dont blame the players (apart maybe from Johan who is not quite up to the mark) its the 4-3-3 that's the problem. Teams can attack down our wings and pick us of with ease. Man Utd always have 3 players round you if you attack wide - we have 1. Simple. Switch to 4-4-2 now Wenger and I think we can still make top 4 and maybe the FA Cup. We will need to buy at least one world class winger in the summer but we can make do for now due to the emergence of te Ox. Stick to this crazy 451/433 though and I fear 6th or 7th is on the horizon. And then try buying Eden Hazard in the summer with no champions league football to attract him. . .

  168. Judge Fred

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:27 #18143

    I agree. Tomorrow for instance at home against Blackburn, we need two forwards. The problem with this is not the midfield but who the second forward is going to be. Do we give Cham. a run in the team or do we finally go with The-O in a centre forward role? Someone is going to have to stand-up and be counted alongside RvP if we play 442 and I am not sure we have the capable talent to do this.

  169. James L

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:07 #18140

    I agree with this post in principal, but i also think that the system at the moment allows us to have a 'holding player' in Song and i think in Wenger's mind at least that he believes this should help us when we are over exposed and beaten time and again on counter attacks! I think any system will work, providing you have the players to play the system and that is something we are lacking. Walcott cant play out wide - his touch is poor, his decision making is horrendous and his finishing is starting to cost us points. Rosicky, arshavin, chamakh are all below par. The real question i would like to ask is why have we changed our 'player formula' from one which saw central midfield partnerships like vieira/petit vieira/parlour gilberto/vieira to these smaller, allegedly quicker players? the partnerships i mentioned won championships and it was a formula that worked - until the boss decided he wanted to copy barcelona! why dont we go back to what works and buy/build players to suit that?!!

  170. Graham

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:06 #18139

    Its not the formation is the lack of quality players and a clueless manager who are to blame.Are Song Ramsey and Walcott good enough?Simon you said it yourself Wenger is stubborn so do you really think he is going to admit he was wrong and change things?.No me neither.It needs a new manager with new players and new ideas.The Wenger era is over

  171. chris dee

    Feb 03, 2012, 9:05 #18138

    Nothing to do with formations or signings at the Arsenal. It's a deep rooted lack of mental and physical courage,it'a deep rooted false belief that by playing 'pure football'will win the day.It's an deep rooted arrogance from the manager who will not adapt any of his tactics depending on what is actually happening on the field of play. It's not formations that concede two goals in the last five minutes at Fulham or allow Swansea to score their winner sixteen seconds after we had equalised. It is not formations that let Jack Wilshire,who's ankle was not 100%,to play in the prestigious Emirates Cup ,get injured, and miss the whole naffing season. And it was not formations that our only senior left back available at the time,Santos,was picked to play against Olympiacos after the group was already won,get injured and miss three months of the season. It's rank bad management.

  172. Graham Simons

    Feb 03, 2012, 8:52 #18137

    Good shout - I would plump for a 4,4,2 with Sczezny in goal, right back Sagna, left back Koscielny, centre backs Metersacker and Vermaelen, Right Wing the Ox, left wing Roscicky, centre mid, Song and Arteta - give Ramsey about a month off - he looks knackered then RVP and Walcott up front and if Theo can't score given that he'd be playing in his favoured position, play our much maligned Russian in a central role alongside RVP

  173. Oliver Chessis

    Feb 03, 2012, 8:50 #18136

    Some great points here. Ramsey is tying to get up and join RVP, but is that really his best position? I would think he would be more useful running from deeper. Only problem I could see in a 442 is that we don't actually have two decent wingers?

  174. Tony Evans

    Feb 03, 2012, 8:30 #18135

    I agree with Canada - whichever formation we play you can not make a silk purse out of a sows ear. It has come to something when Arsenal mates of mine are so gutted by what has happened to our club that they are actually hoping we finish even out of the Europa League places to hopefully wake the Board up and take an interest in football as opposed to lining their own pockets, as the money stops rolling in. These are fans who have supported Arsenal through thick and thin for over 40 years that are saying this - what the hell is happening to our club?

  175. Joe Fitzpatrick

    Feb 03, 2012, 8:29 #18134

    I agree with the point made by "divingrooney" it seems that once Adebayor finally left and we didnt properly replace him we had no option but to go 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 however you want to see it. The only variation that i would have liked to have seen before the players lost all confidence is a 4-4-1-1 with either Arshavin behind Van Persie or Van Persie behind Chamakh. now both of those players have lost all form and confidence what other options have we got now? Walcott up front isnt going to work because his finishing is atrocious.

  176. divingrooney

    Feb 03, 2012, 7:08 #18132

    4-3-3 was creating for another reason except Fabregas, we dont have any strikers. We played 4-4-2 with Adebayor, but once he is gone, we don't have anyone else, who can play the front man. RVP cannot play that role, and even he does who is the second striker. Chamakh or Park, those two cannot come as subs, so can they play for 90 min. Nope. 4-3-3 is the best bet, cause it is the only formation for which the current squad can cater to...

  177. Don

    Feb 03, 2012, 6:42 #18131

    Dont change the formation change the manager

  178. CanadaGooner

    Feb 03, 2012, 6:11 #18130

    you can come up with any formation you want, if you have a bunch of donkeys as we do, wont make much difference. if you're paid 80k/week win or lose, you'll be as complacent as our lot.

  179. mj

    Feb 03, 2012, 4:30 #18129

    quite agree ramsey cant play that fabregas role as he does not have enough pace since his injury .one comment on corners .why doesnt mertesaker (who never wins a ball in the air ) stand at the near post for flick ons - even if he misses it which is likely at least he might block the keepers view .our corners are terrible so lets try something new and go back to 442

  180. Joe

    Feb 03, 2012, 4:04 #18126

    So your saying we should play less like Barcelona and more like...Stoke? The 4-5-1 (as you call it) is really a 4-2-3-1, which is simply a modification of a 4-4-2. Take a 4-4-2, withdraw one of the strikers (inside forward), advance the wingers and hey presto what do you get...? a 4-2-3-1

  181. Unbeaten 03/04

    Feb 03, 2012, 2:14 #18125

    I have been saying this for a while and I totally agree with you. It will help our defence and it will help our midfield and an extra striker up front. Most manager would have changed it ages ago or at least try a different formation but hey what do we know!! We're only been half a day in football!!!

  182. Steve of Chiang Mai

    Feb 03, 2012, 1:30 #18124

    OK Simon....now give us your team structure and proposed squad list. 442 is not a magic wand to wave over the rest of the season. You need to give us the names and explain how they will manage to play that format any better than the current one.

  183. Simon Bowden

    Feb 03, 2012, 0:48 #18123

    I couldn't agree more mate. We've been using this wretched system for about 3 and a half years now and it's not working. I rang the Fans Forum on Arsenal Live a couple of weeks ago and made this exact point to Tom Watt and Nigel Winterburn but I was told it was impossible for us to play 4-4-2 cos we don't have the midfield players to do it. It's strange how every other team manages it. This formation has ruined Arshavin who has been played on the left wing for 3 seasons, it's ruined Chamakh who can only ever play when RvP is rested. Even Bendtner spent a season on the right wing because AW will refuse to ever play 2 up front regardless of whether we're playing Leyton Orient at home or Barcelona away. It's the same formation for 90 mins in every game with no flexibilty whatsoever. How could we ever attract a striker when they are only ever going to play Carling Cup or when RvP is injured or rested.