Fourth Our Trophy

An upbeat rallying call to the troops



Fourth Our Trophy

Barndoor: Unlikely to help Spurs out next season


What a depressing couple of weeks it has been in the world of all things Gooner. The dire showing in Milan was followed by a timid performance at Sunderland in the FA Cup and bang goes the chance of silverware for yet another year. More and more people seem to be calling for some kind of change in direction at the club, and you do get the feeling that, if things do not go well in Sunday’s North London derby, more fans will turn their anger against either the board or the manager or both.

The facts are that, as a club, we are set up every season to try and maintain our Champions League spot for the following campaign and currently, as things stand, we are achieving this ‘aim’. We are fourth in the league with 13 games remaining. We have taken a total of 43 points from our 25 games at an average of 1.72 points a game. This points-to-games ratio would see us finish with around 65 points come May. Did anyone really expect a higher points tally than that when Cesc and Samir left last summer?

I wrote a November article that said that expecting Spurs to fall away this season was foolhardy, and the team we had to focus on getting above was Chelsea. This has certainly proved to be the case. I personally can’t see Liverpool or Newcastle finishing the season in the top four, even though these teams, especially Newcastle, have done very well to keep up with the pace. I was concerned back then at how much Chelsea would be able to spend in the January sales, as I saw with some ease that we wouldn’t be buying anyone of any note in that transfer window. Given that the only major signing that Chelsea made was Gary Cahill, I don’t really see a lot to fear from them in the closing months of the season. I can easily see the scenario developing that I predicted back in November where we do in fact finish below our North London rivals for the first time in what feels like centuries, but still finish the season back in the ‘holy grail’ of next season’s Champions League.

Many of us Gooners seem to view this as a failure, but, in reality, we only feel that way because Spurs are the team most likely to finish above us in third, and not Chelsea. It is almost as though we as fans can accept finishing fourth but not if it means that Spurs end up above us in the pecking order. Why is this the case, as surely Chelsea have been a far bigger threat to us as a club over the past 15 years or so?

In reality, this season has seen Spurs loan in a striker they probably couldn’t afford to buy, not play in the Champions League at all, and put out reserve team sides in all other competitions. They have also been lucky with minimal injuries to key players, in my opinion. Next season, they will have to contend with combining Champions League football with the league campaign, and might well lose their current number-one striker and their manager. If they are still sitting ten points clear of us this time next season, then hats off to them.

Most Gooners seem to feel very negative about the game on Sunday, but, in reality, we will be favourites to win the game. We are at home, where we have managed to win eight times out of a possible 12. That is a win ratio of 67%, compared to Spurs away-win ratio of just 50%. Our home goal-difference is plus 15 whereas their away goal difference is plus five. The highest team that Spurs have beaten away from home this season is Norwich, who currently sit in eighth position in the league table, and the last time Spurs played away from home they failed to beat Stevenage.

I am not for one second trying to say that Spurs are a poor side; they quite clearly are not. They deserve to be well ahead of us in the table as things stand, and will almost certainly stay there no matter what happens on Sunday afternoon. We are at home, though, and all the stats point to the fact that they will do well to leave our place with all three points. If we could manage to turn them over and narrow the deficit to seven points, then who knows what the future may hold, as they have Man Utd next up in the league and three points there is no certainty either.

The main subject of importance though has to be our ability to qualify for next season’s Champions League, and fourth will do as far as that is concerned. Chelsea have three very winnable games coming up next in the league, so we need to make sure we take a minimum of five points from our next three tricky-looking league encounters. If we can get the next three games out the way, and not be more than two points behind Chelsea, then we have to have every chance of getting fourth by the end of the season. We simply can’t afford to lose any more ground on them than that, so a minimum of a point on Sunday, the same at Anfield and a home win against Newcastle should suffice for us to stay well in touch.

If we do manage to finish fourth, then, as annoying as it sounds, we would have to see it as something of a successful season, even though the trophy-hunt goes on for yet another year. With the way last summer was handled in the transfer market, and combining this with the early-season results, Champions League qualification looked a long way off at that time. We should remember that some people on this very website back in September were seriously suggesting the real possibility of our facing some kind of relegation battle. This was embarrassing stuff for me to read at the time, but each person has their own opinion to air, I guess.

The recent defeats and poor performances have rather luckily come mainly in cup competitions, so the ‘trophy’ of fourth is still very much up for grabs for us this season. Let us therefore not get too hot under the collar too soon. I feel if we can grab this spot and learn from the glaring mistakes in the transfer market that have been made over the past 12 months or so, we can possibly come out of this season in a stronger position than we started it. Get Jack back to full fitness, sign some much-needed quality in the summer, and move on with our stature of being an elite club still intact. Failure to finish fourth could see the few remaining quality players we have at our disposal looking to leave, and this would certainly impact our ability to bring in the much-needed quality in the summer; this scenario does not bear thinking about for me.

We need therefore to stay together and get behind the team as much as possible in games like Sunday. We, as fans, do sometimes play a part in making the games at home tenser than they need to be, as the negativity from the stands seems to transmit itself too easily onto the field of play and the team becomes more stifled as a result. Surely this is the last thing that we should want to see happening, especially when it hinders our own team’s chances of beating a Spurs side including none other than Emmanuel Adebayor.


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58
comments

  1. MaidenheadPete

    Feb 25, 2012, 11:11 #19360

    What is the point of gaining entry to the CL party when we all know we have no chance of winning it . This 4th place nonsense of being a trophy is like everything in society that says "well done there are no losers here". In America the saying goes "2nd is the 1st loser" " maybe SilentStan can install some of that mentality in the club. Just wish occasionally we fail gloriously instead of limping over the line.

  2. The Dartford Gooner

    Feb 25, 2012, 10:55 #19359

    Dear Mandy, "some fans think the players lack passion"? no Mandy we know many of our players lack fight and passion.Just watch the game in Milan again, i have. Many of the team that played should never pull on an Arsenal shirt again.We have now got rid of one waste of space Arshavin i can think of at least another six who should follow him out of the door.I dont know of one Arsenal fan who wont get behind the team on Sunday but even if we beat spuds it will only paper over the cracks.Good point made by the Norfolk Gooner about the press and Arsene, all the crap they write about be careful what Arsenal fans wish for and if we push the manager out our great club will die. Remeber how the press treated our club over the years, most of them are loving our fall from grace in the last few years. If 4th place gives us the money to keep Robin all well and good, but 4th is not good enough for ARSENAL!

  3. Paul

    Feb 25, 2012, 10:42 #19358

    It's a joy to see which team out of ourselves, Chelsea and Liverpool can be more spectacularly incompetent than the others. 1st is 1st...2nd is nowhere...4th is a trophy...It's the footballing equivalent of you getting so fat that your jeans start to drop and your belt becomes loose again!

  4. johnnyh

    Feb 25, 2012, 10:17 #19357

    what utter nonsense, i had to double check this article wasnt submitted by arsene wenger.

  5. Joe S.

    Feb 25, 2012, 9:32 #19356

    Don't worry Canada Gooner even if the Gunners were to lose 0 - 4 it wouldn't hurt as much as other losses this year. As our expectations are lowered so we are becoming more immune to these disappointing results. Football goes in cyccles and even our groundhog day will have to end. Personally I think we'll scramble for a draw against the visitors, although I don't believr that's going to make too many of us happy either.

  6. chrisy boy

    Feb 25, 2012, 7:35 #19353

    do we actualy deserve to finish 4th, no we dont, and do i think we will finish 4th no. I just cant see this team with all there mental strength ( joke ) going on any kind of decent run. It may take us to finish outside the holy grail ( 4th ) for any kind of change at the club. The fact that not a lot or nothing at all has come out of the board meeting at the club speaks volumes, all round pats on the back for wenger followed by brandy and cuban cigars as the share price has risen again ( and im a shareholder ) The club is a joke we as fans need to do more for the good and long term future of our club.

  7. patrick luke

    Feb 25, 2012, 6:46 #19350

    wow- it's pretty mind boggling that people can still somehow find a contentment with the standard of football produced in the last couple of seasons at the Arsenal. Is it not plain and simple to everyone that the quality has dropped enormously and until this is sorted we should not be happy as fans?

  8. Mandy dodd

    Feb 25, 2012, 1:30 #19349

    There are people on here who seem to think the players, manager, and some fans lack passion and commitment, yet they suggest it would be preferable in the interests of the club to lose to spurs.......ok, whatever floats your boat. Guess you guys have a different definition of passion and committment to me, and I hope the team, but whatever you say!

  9. Herts Gooner

    Feb 25, 2012, 0:44 #19347

    Arsenal are the third most succesful team in England based on European Cups, League Winners, and domestic and European trophies, not because of FOURTH PLACE!

  10. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 24, 2012, 23:12 #19345

    Arshavin went because the Russian transfer deadline ended tonight...the whole loan system is a scam and I know we have Benayoun and had Henry but it just should not be allowed, either you want the player or you don't, end of. I so hope we smash the scum down the road on sunday...

  11. CanadaGooner

    Feb 24, 2012, 21:04 #19341

    I dont think we'll lose this weekend, but I'll be quite daft to think we'll win. If Man City can take Tevez back (in desperation) I'm sure they will want Adebayor back next season too (especially if they end this season with zilch!). Adebayor wasnt performing when he left arsenal and he only got back in form very recently. Over the years we have let go of some players who could have chipped in 2 - 3 more seasons and I just cant understand that, as we have clung on to some players who should never have lasted longer than a season or two (we all know who they are,so i wont bother naming them) Problem with our unpredictable team is: if we score too early or too many goals it'll end 4 - 4 (from us being 4 - 0 ahead); if we dont score early enough it could be a repeat of the AC Milan match last week. Terrible time to play Spurs. Really dreading watching this game! grrrr

  12. bunch

    Feb 24, 2012, 20:42 #19340

    For a club that has the resources, fan base and charges as much for tickets as ours does, fourth is a minimum expectation. It isn't a trophy and all it means is money. We aren't going to win the CL, we are making up the numbers. Two consecutive seasons out in the round of 16 - very much making up the numbers. Did I expect more after Cesc and Nasri were sold: no. Am I happy that Wenger has eroded our club to non-challenging also-rans: hell no. Don't try and re-write history here, this season is nothing but unmitigated ****e and a win against the scum good though it would be isn't going to change that. Last season's collapse was gut-wrenching but this season hasn't even held out any hope. All for the most expensive season ticket in world football.

  13. celine dion

    Feb 24, 2012, 20:12 #19339

    Yes Merse-10, and historically the club didnt charge the equivalent of £50 to sit in the clock end lower.

  14. Clockender78

    Feb 24, 2012, 19:30 #19337

    Good point bunting14. Fourth doesn't even guarantee Champions League group stage football!!

  15. North Bank Man

    Feb 24, 2012, 19:27 #19336

    Sundays match. A good 20 mins by Arsenal trying to walk it in the net and possibly score whilst spuds sit back. Spuds then step up the pace whilst Arsenal panick. Spuds win easily as a result of Arsenal's defensive errors. It breaks my heart to see our team so predictable. No MENTAL STRENGTH Arsene.

  16. Quillie

    Feb 24, 2012, 19:10 #19335

    Fourth is not a trophy, we will not strengthen in the summer (regardless of where we finish) and the fact that Spurs are above us in the table, whilst grating, is not the major issue here. There are problems with the club that go far beyond than the relatively trivial things mentioned in this article.

  17. Bunting14

    Feb 24, 2012, 19:07 #19334

    4th place does not guarantee CL football. It only gets you into a qualifier. So 4th place is like winning a semi final. So what happens, we have to wait until we win that game before we buy any players and the same old cycle begins again, Also one day we won't win the qualifier.....

  18. BringBackDene

    Feb 24, 2012, 18:52 #19333

    So Arshavin is off on loan to St Petersburgh. I don't understand how loans can be arranged outside the transfer window....so...why can't we loan some decnt players...from say City, they have bought enough of our players in the past.

  19. Gare Kekeke

    Feb 24, 2012, 18:38 #19332

    No way should finishing 4th be seen as a major trophy. Like many contributors on this site, I seem to remember a time for a few years back in the 1980s when you could win the very old First Division (for the AKB's, we won that 10 times) and NOT qualify for Europe because of the European ban imposed by the Thatcher led Tory government and extended by UEFA because of the Heysel tragedy back in 1985. Those who can remember were not happy with our club missing out on competing in the Europe despite two trophy wins back in 1987 & 1989 but hey ho. Still, come on you Gunners!

  20. hibeegunner

    Feb 24, 2012, 18:30 #19331

    Get Adams Bould & Dixon in the dressing room before the game and let them tell the players what this means to the fans get a grip A.W. you are losing your fan base.

  21. Fozzy's mate

    Feb 24, 2012, 18:06 #19330

    Here we go ahead. OGL says considering what we have had to face this season the players haven't done too badly. What dross, hampshire don't fall for the cynical spin with players names dropped into the press and gazidis crawling up to us fans!

  22. Clockender78

    Feb 24, 2012, 17:52 #19329

    Fourth is most definitely not a trophy! I would love us to finish fourth, but i would rather see us win something i.e the F.A Cup. Finishing fourth would generate extra revenue(if we need it?!), but do you honestly think we will spend money on anyone decent anyway??!! History sugggests not. Chamakh,Arshavin,Squillaci,Park etc and the panic buys at the end of the transfer window in the summer! Agree that we need to get behind the team as much as possible on Sunday though..i will be there praying we beat the spuds,although this would not mask the many problems at the club.Djorou being given a new contract is the last straw for me...

  23. 6OONER PETE

    Feb 24, 2012, 17:51 #19328

    Tony Evans, you are absolutely SPOT ON! I agree with all you say.Us supporters from the sixties did not support Arsenal as glory hunters,BUT we did expect a level of pride for playing for our club. Also, three excellent European tournaments were messed up for sheer greed. The European cup for the champions, the Cup winner's cup for the FA cup winners and the Eufa cup for teams that finished high enough in the league, were all good knockout competitions. The Champions League is one of the most hyped up unexciting competitions you could imagine. And yet every season it is our main priority to try and get in to it so that we can get enough money to afford players that will get us in to it again the next year. We have no chance of winning it!!! There have been some depressing times at Arsenal over the last few years. None more so than Djourou being awarded a new contract rumoured to be over £50000 a week. I'll write that again, Djourou is getting over £50000 a week!!!He should have been shown the door just on his performance against Sunderland! It just sums up the dire situation us supporters are in at the moment, our money being wasted over and over again. Sad days.

  24. Shropshire Lad

    Feb 24, 2012, 17:38 #19326

    Isn't the point, the fact that we are going backwards (to be fair,sideways as well on the pitch!) whereas Our Glorious Leader claims that year on year improvement is the measure of success. The mismanagement of last summers comings and goings is the defining moment for me. Wenger describes it as one of his darkest moments but worryingly does not see his pain was of his own making. I think he has been great for the Club but unless starts surrounding himself with a management team that he will listen to he will sadly go the way of Clough, Docherty, Revie etc. Provided, of course, he survives this weekend.

  25. norfolk gooner

    Feb 24, 2012, 17:35 #19325

    spot on Tony Evans agree with all of your posts,like you i can no longer buy into something i don't believe in.Wenger again coming out with the same old b------s on ss news today.also why don't reporters ask him questions that we've all been asking on here? makes me sick seeing him laughing and joking with them, still £500.000 a month!!Good news AA23 is on his way.

  26. Jock Gooner

    Feb 24, 2012, 17:31 #19324

    I'm sorry but any manager who can put that plonker Djourou anywhere near his first team is an idiot!! If Djourou is the answer, what on earth was the question!!??

  27. George

    Feb 24, 2012, 17:16 #19323

    I think i speak on behalf of every arsenal fan when i say we would love fourth. But in reality can you see us finishing there? with teams like city, Newcastle and Chelsea to play it does not look easy what so ever!

  28. BringBackDene

    Feb 24, 2012, 17:14 #19322

    To finish 4th can someone please tell me who we are going to beat for the remainder of the season, our team have 'bottled it'.

  29. Will

    Feb 24, 2012, 16:14 #19320

    Dont disagree with much of the post. 4th merely means we have secured the dosh nothing more. The real question is are we building a side that can reasonably compete with Man u, Citeh and most of the European sides bar Barca and Real Madrid. The answer is an unequivocal no. The mistake is to believe we were much closer when Cesc and Nasri were here, think back to the Carling cup last year.The side has been in steady decline for a number of years and we have been smooth talked by the Boss into believing he had a master plan. We have been weak defensively for several seasons and he has seemed incapable of solving the problem. The team has been mentally weak for several seasons again he has seemed incapable of solving the problem. We had a goalkeeping problem for at least 2 seasons,he wouldnt spend the extra few quid for Swartzer then he got lucky and stumbled on Chez.The end of transfer window buys were not indicative of a master plan more blind panic. This is not the work of a manager at the top of his game. Like all gooners I want us to wallop the spuds but the result is a distraction, there are serious problems and the question is can Arsene solve them? Whatever we think of him ( and I am grateful for all he has done for the club ) the evidence suggests he's not up to it.

  30. Reg Varney

    Feb 24, 2012, 15:28 #19318

    Merse-10. What utter rubbish. “Historically we are not serial trophy winners”. No-one on this page has once asked for serial trophies. You are making it up as you go along, pal. What everyone wants is a team capable of CHALLENGING for trophies. And it’s been years since that happened in the League, CL or FA Cup. But in the meantime, you keep believing everything is alright at the club. If you have your way Spurs will not be our rivals but Fulham will.

  31. Tony Evans

    Feb 24, 2012, 15:11 #19317

    Merse-10 Please stop saying that we don't have a devine right to win anything because although of course true wanting Wenger out goes far beyond that. I did not support Arsenal all those years ago as a trophy hunter - although I have been very lucky with what we have won. Also for me Spurs are not and never have been our main rivals, bar one or two seasons, they have been a non-entity since I started supporting The Arsenal. I could not care less that we have not won a trophy since 2005 - although of course it would have been great if we had. What I do care about is overpaid awful players like Djourou being rewarded for nothing, Wenger's 'mental strength' nonsense, watching my team throw 4 goal leads away, hearing Wenger saying finishing 4th is a trophy, being told by Wenger that I know nothing because I have not worked half a day in football, watching with dismay as Wenger fails to strengthen the squad and then seeing us fail becuase of it, hearing Wenger say an injured player is like a new signing, and I could go on but what is the point. If you are happy with the Wenger way then good luck to you but I am afraid I have had enough.

  32. Merse-10

    Feb 24, 2012, 14:41 #19314

    A timely history reminder; In thE 15 years prior to Arsene, Spurs finished above us on SEVEN occasions. In the 15 years with Arsene they have not managed that once. As for 'Chuks'; £55m will buy one player. the £55m is for contract extensions (RvP hopefully), transfers and the subsequent contracts. So with that in mind that sum does not buy multiple players. Historically we are not serial trophy winners so i'm not really sure why fans seems to thnk we have a devine right to be winning things. Fans seems to have short memories and are hell bent on complaining and moaning about everything. It's boring. It's borng to hear it at games and boring to read it. I would suggest every gets behind the team on Sunday and cut out this bollocks. It's Arsenal vs Spurs ffs. They are our main rivals and always have been and always will be.

  33. maguiresbridge gooner

    Feb 24, 2012, 14:29 #19313

    Good piece Hampshire here we go again we have all being convinced or convinced ourselves that fourth is a trophy ok we've been left with no choice, better in the champions league than not (many would disagree)but fourth in not a trophy it maybe as far as the board, owner, and manager are concerned all that lovely CL dough but not as far as the fans are concerned fourth again and not a pot to p$$s in is failure no matter what way it's dressed up.Of course we'll get behind the team on sunday that goes without saying when we beat them is anything really going to change? we were told after blackburn we were going to push on and go on a run, since then look whats happened, after our win on sunday we'll be told the same but to quote SteveO 35 above we'll continue crawling through the season or rather whats left of it.

  34. Oxy-Moron

    Feb 24, 2012, 14:18 #19312

    Agree totally with the likes of Jekyll - If I thought for one moment that Wenger will change his ways and make the necessary investment in established quality players, then I would go along with the 4-place-is-a-trophy argument. But onfortunately, as far as our dear leader goes, he;s one Leopard that will never change his spots! So, reluctantly, I've concluded that perhaps 5th place is a good thing if it finally nails the myth of this current squad being even remotely good enough for this great club.

  35. Steve

    Feb 24, 2012, 14:17 #19311

    Let's stop all this 4th place 'trophy' bull****. It obvioiusly isn't. Whatever happens on Sunday our club is a total and utter shambles on the pitch.

  36. goonersid

    Feb 24, 2012, 13:41 #19309

    As rosetinted a view of our situation as I have read since the forum suspension. Sacrilege maybe, but I fear an Arsenal win on Sunday will do nothing for the long term good, and merely throw the drowning wenger another punctured life jacket. I would take a draw just to spare us the sight of the s***s celebrating.

  37. Ron

    Feb 24, 2012, 13:22 #19308

    Even if 4th was a 'trophy', its the most hollow of the hollowest trophy Arsenal could get. The CL is a tournament they cant win. They would inevitably lose in it to the first decent side they encounter as usual. What sort of 'trophy'is that? Id sooner the Club win a Cup at home. One that means something to fans and not to accountants who not doubt cream it each year the Club scrapes through the increasingly boring and tedious CL group. I'd never wish faiure on the Club, but to be truthful they need to end up outside even the Europa Cup places to see positive change away from the humdrum, sterilty the Club has for too long accepted and seemingly so adores. UEFA should do everybody a favour and put Clubs like Arsenal out of their misery by making that fraudulent 'Champions' League what it says on the tin .... Champions only! Fall below that and youre out! A tournament that rewards failure is flawed. The fact that it goes on to reward failure twice, by allowing teams to have the booby prize of entry into the Europa Cup once a Club has shown itself to be too inept to progress is even more laughable.That Wenger adores this tournament and his never changing peripheral role in it speaks volumes about the man and even more about those above him.Its pathetic basically.

  38. tpm

    Feb 24, 2012, 13:07 #19307

    why should finishing 4th bee considered a success, surely its the minimum we should hope for. this lowering of aspirations is an awful thing affecting certain fans and manager alike. sure 4th would be an achivement given the woeful start, but its not success, its a similar scenario to if we were in the relegation places yet scrape survuval, would we see that as a success??? no. AW messed the start of the season up and is merely getting us back to the very minumum we should be, nothing more. its not success for a club of our size. also i admire the authors optimism that the issues will be resolved in the summer trnasfer window...heard that one before i think havent we...6 seasons running still waiting though....

  39. Richie Powling

    Feb 24, 2012, 12:59 #19306

    What happens if Sepp says the top 10 teams in the PL can play in the CL next year. Would we settle for 10th? Ridiculous.

  40. Tony Evans

    Feb 24, 2012, 12:56 #19305

    Fourth is not and never will be a trophy to me and most other real fans. I have reached such a low with this current team and with Wenger that I am seriously thinking about what result I would like on Sunday. My devotion to Arsenal is being sorely tested by Wenger and although I am sure I will want my team to win in the end (I hope so - or I wont be going) the very fact that I am even thinking like this shows how much I detest Wenger and the spineless team he has created. By the way I am not alone in this dilemma - most of my Arsenal mates feel the same way and we are all fans from the 60s and 70s. We have all reached breaking point with Wenger and are starting to think the unthinkable just to get rid of him in the hope that sanity will return to the club we all love.

  41. allybear

    Feb 24, 2012, 12:46 #19304

    Finishing 4th is not good enough&agree that the likes of Liverpool,Chelsea&Newcastle are relatively poor sides that make 4th achievable for us. Nothing has changed at the club despite all the bad results&January was let go with no signings so i dont really see much change in the summer&unfortunately Wenger will see out his contract!

  42. Vip

    Feb 24, 2012, 12:46 #19303

    Lets put all of our opinions to one side for 90 minutes on Sunday and concentrate on smashing the rabble from N17!!!Send them back to their @hithole with their tails between their legs. Come on you reds!!!!!!!!!

  43. Judge Fred

    Feb 24, 2012, 12:19 #19302

    Regarding your "...and learn from the glaring mistakes in the transfer market that have been made over the past 12 months or so..." comment. There is not a single reader on this site that has not learnt this lesson 7 years ago. Only one man has not learnt this lesson and he is the manager. May I also point the readers in the direction of the arseblog podcast today including an interview with Lee Dixon. Our former right back recalled his first ever NLD at ****e Hart Lane where pre-match, Paul Davis, David Rocastle and Tony Adams pinned him against the dressing room wall and reminded him how important this game was. Classic. A few of our 'invisibles' need this kind of 'reminding' too.

  44. Dave

    Feb 24, 2012, 11:41 #19301

    When you say 4th is a 'trophy' however you gloss over it, you lost my respect. 4th is NOT a trophy and never will be and until Wenger and the board wake up to this fact then the cycle will continue. As much as I hate to say it, if we finish 5th or lower I think it will be more beneficial to us in the long run, 4th will be seen as a successful season to the board but not the fans and herein lies the problem. Wenger just has to quit in the summer either way for the goodness of AFC.

  45. Half Full

    Feb 24, 2012, 10:53 #19299

    Whether 4th is or is not a trophy,5th is quite definitely failure for a team with our resources. I don't care who might finish above us - 5th is failure. And can we please stop this perpetual lowering of the success threshold - that's Arsene's job.

  46. Knight of the long knives

    Feb 24, 2012, 10:46 #19298

    Getting 4th is not a trophy-contrary to Wenger's BS. Arsenal qualifying for the Champions league used to occur as a result of being the champions, or coming runners-up. Arsenal's decline in the very recent seasons is borne out of the fact that we're scraping 4th year after year. At this rate, we will fail sooner than later. The cause must be that other clubs have better stock than we do. They are willing to invest more heavily, and are better managed football wise per se. It seems safe to conclude that the direction of the club is purely financially driven, and all else falls by the wayside. Wenger's grand plan does intrigue, but there are other managers who hunger after success on the pitch more than he does. Maybe he has numerous spreadsheets showing all Arsenal's opponents, he number crunches it all up and goes to the board and says 4th is ours at minimal cost, because the rest are muppets. All the while king Kenny runs off with a carling,(maybe more), will make Liverpool a force, Sir Alex is an immovable object, our neighbours showing us their rear, and Chelsea who if it comes to it will always speculate to accumulate. OGL though is not a movable object-shame! My point: 4th is another false dawn. For me nowhere near enough anymore. I'd sooner win the Fa cup, or a Carling!

  47. Ron

    Feb 24, 2012, 10:43 #19297

    Arsenal 1 Spuds 1 i reckon. Tottenham will love a draw. Its all they need and they wont be that adventurous trying to win it.Theyre as high as their going to get. Arsenal will think a draw is a decent result purely as it means no embarrasment and it gets an awkward fixture out of the way, that theyve forgotten how to win and stops the rot (in their eyes anyway). Lets face it Redknapp has had Wengers number in the derbys for a few seasons now (since the 4-4 fiasco) apart from that CC match at the Lane, so a draw will mark an upturn for Wenger. Both will settle for a share of the points and it wont be another goal fest.They cant keep happening .... can they?

  48. BigL

    Feb 24, 2012, 10:40 #19296

    4th would be an achievement but no matter how wenger tries to position it, its not a trophy. If we manage it, it will only be out of sheer luck thanks to Chelsea being so poor. I think we will loose at the weekend.

  49. GoonerGoal!

    Feb 24, 2012, 10:39 #19295

    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come..." - Peter Ustinov

  50. Tom

    Feb 24, 2012, 10:37 #19294

    Finishing 4th is a red herring. A trophy, any trophy, would have a far greater impact on this insipid Arsenal team. It would build confidence and momentum while giving them a taste of success. Unfortunately, due to our manager's supreme vision, the 2 trophies we had the best chance of winning (League and FA Cups) were sacrificed at the altar of Champions League football.

  51. Jekyll

    Feb 24, 2012, 10:18 #19293

    If we get 4th, I can see absolutley no grounds, based on the historical precedence of the last few seasons, to believe that the club (i.e. Wenger) will 'learn' and buy the quality players required. Wenger doesn't do learning, we've seen that for the last few transfer windows, and indeed on the pitch for years. Indeed, he'd see 4th as validation and would be more inclined to hand out some more contract extensions for the dross, as he's already done with Djourou. Could be better for AFC in the longer term to finish outside of the top 4. 4th will mean continuing to repeat the last few repetitive seasons.

  52. Bob

    Feb 24, 2012, 9:59 #19291

    As soon as I saw the title of this article, my hackles rose. This is the sort of absolute tosh from both the board and Wenger that we need to refute. Fourth is not a trophy - never was, and never will be. The only sentiment in this article that I can remotely agree with is that we should avoid being obsessed with our position relative to Tottenham. We need to see the bigger picture here, and care more about our decline in absolute terms while all of our major competitors have been winning things (and yes, I include Liverpool, who won the FA Cup a year after our last trophy and are unlikely to fail where we did on Sunday).

  53. Sarge

    Feb 24, 2012, 9:43 #19290

    The issue for me is that achieving 4th is a default position due to the erratic form of Chelsea and Liverpool and not completely earned on merit. Setting ourselves up to finish top of a mini league of 4 teams each season is a massive cop out by the manager and its shameful that he has sold this idea as a benchmark of success to the board and worse expects us to swallow it. The other fact that we cannot get away from is that we are closer to 10th in terms of points than we are to 3rd. It's not going out and spending millions on 5 or 6 players in the summer that will hoepfully help us turn the corner it's about purging this club of its complacency and 'do just enough' culture that has wormed its way into the fabric of the club over the last 6 years. Too many convenient excuses have presented themselves in recent times and are now accepted as universal truths by the club and expect us, the fans, to accept the same. Finishing 4th may be considered an achievement come the end of the season, but it won't be entirely because of the efforts of the team but helped considerably by the decline in quality of the chasing pack. Whether that will provide the platform for the club to turn things round in the summer remains to be seen.

  54. chris dee

    Feb 24, 2012, 9:08 #19288

    The fans will get behind the team tommorow big time. But will the players bust a gut,make tackles,close down,not pull out of 50/50 tackles,be defensively solid,show passion,show pride? Every player playing for Arsenal whether world class or not should have those qualities as standard. The players haven't shown those qualities so far this season,lets hope tomorrow is a turning point. Just take a look at the official Arsenal Website today. It will confirm how out of touch the club are with the fans. There is an article featuring Johann Djourou,yes Djourou,6 foot five,can't head a ball,can't tackle,can't defend with the positional sense and tactical awareness of a 7 year old 'rallying' everyone by stating 'we must prove we are the Kings of London'. Yep, we are all truely inspired by those words of an Arsenal great,who in nearly ten years at the club is still not a regular first team player,but has still been given a contract extension.

  55. Chuks

    Feb 24, 2012, 9:08 #19287

    In Wenger we trust. Not!!! 55 million pounds in the kitty. Do you trust le prof to spend it on the sort of players we need and dare I say Spurs have in abundance.

  56. ATID

    Feb 24, 2012, 9:08 #19286

    Yes, fourth would be good. Unfortunately, if you bear in mind that over the last few seasons and our form has consistently deteriorated during the Spring I can't see it happening. Why should this year be any different? Our only hope is that Chelsea, Newcastle and Liverpool are just as poor as us. That is a bit like saying you can still will the league if all of the teams above you lose or draw all of their remaining matches. Possible but unlikely.

  57. SteveO 35

    Feb 24, 2012, 9:04 #19285

    As a fan, first and foremost, I hope and pray that we finish in the top 4, but in the long term interests of the club finishing 5th or lower is the wake-up call that is undoubtedly required. The mismanagement of both the Summer and January transfer windows was negligent beyond any previous levels of incompetence shown by the board and we are being bailed out by AVB's self destruct button at Chelsea at the moment. How on earth a club of our size can have one recognised world class (even PL class) striker in RvP just amazes me every time I think about it. We are crawling through the season knowing that if he gets injured then Chamakh and Park are supposedly the next strikers in line; just stunning incompetence shown by the whole management team. We're back to the days when Wrighty's replacements were along the lines of Kiwomya or Dickov ! The changes required are not wholesale and could easily have been carried out in either transfer window

  58. mark from aylesbury

    Feb 24, 2012, 8:44 #19283

    Can we please all agree whatever our shade of opinion that 4th is not a trophy even if sarcasm is evident in the title. Do we see other clubs boards position 4th as a trophy? Not sure they do.