Tickets Please!

The Great Ticket Price Debate – Part 2



Tickets Please!


(Ed’s note – The second of two articles on the ticket price debate. Running them both on the same day so we can put this subject to bed for the time being)

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it laughable that Man City fans are the ones complaining about high ticket prices? Over the last few years, their club has done more than any other to drive the price of English football beyond the reach of many ordinary fans. They have done this by massively over-inflating the transfer market and the wages paid to the players they have signed. This in turn has the knock-on effect of every agent using the latest mega deal to set the price for his own budding superstar or established player wanting a move. This current trend was started by Man Utd, when they were the richest club in the land. Chelsea then upped the ante when Abramovich took over. Now Man City have taken us to new heights, with their oil-rich owners’ mind-boggling spending.

Today, the clubs with the billionaire owners don't even negotiate to get a million or two off the price; they just pay up and move on to the next target. The clubs without billionaire owners, however, are forced either to pay the agent’s asking price, and risk the future of the club, or take a chance on a cheaper player and hope he turns out to be a bargain. Take a look around the lower divisions, and you will find they are littered with ex-premier teams who tried to keep up and failed. Leeds and Portsmouth are the two most obvious of these, but don't forget the likes of Bradford City and the Benito Carbone affair.

To try to pay for this massive outlay, clubs have continually raised prices, and, providing the team was still delivering on the pitch, and still in the Premiership, the fans kept forking out. Some teams even built massive new stadiums to try to keep up. But these teams, like the Leeds and Bradfords before them, are doomed to failure if they continue to spend way beyond the natural means of the club.

Man City are the current Premier League champions, yet on Sunday they could not sell all the tickets for an away game at Arsenal. The alleged reason for this has been the much reported £62 ticket cost. Although this is a factor, I believe a large part of the reason is that City only have a naturally medium-sized fan base. Before the oil money started rolling in, City were similar in size and stature to Chelsea. Abramovich's billions transformed Chelsea's fortunes on the pitch, but the club’s medium-sized fan base has remained more or less the same. There were a lot of overnight lifelong fans who went when they were winning the league, but they regularly failed to sell out Champions League and other cup games despite only having a capacity of about 42,000.

Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd all have naturally large fan bases. If a ticket for an away match is left unsold, there are usually plenty of people waiting for the chance to see an away game to buy it. This may be their only chance to see their team at an away ground during the season, and the price is just a one-off for a day out. I suspect Man City's away fans are by and large the same group who go every week, and, because the fan base is smaller, there are not many takers for an unsold ticket. The return of 900 tickets from Man City, says more about the size of the club than the cost of the ticket. Had it been Man Utd or Liverpool playing on Sunday, they would have sold every ticket, and probably more had they been available.

This, of course, should not detract from the fact that £62 for a ticket to watch a football match is way overpriced, but while there are still enough people willing to pay the price it will only increase. We Arsenal fans have paid a high price over the last seven years to see our team deliver very little in return. But despite the lack of success on the pitch, as soon as someone gave up a season ticket, another two were ready to take his place. And many former season-ticket holders still come to a few matches every year, via the silver or red membership schemes. With no real drop-off in attendance, why would the club drop the price?

Even with the very high ticket prices, Arsenal still cannot compete with Chelsea and Man City. It is hoped that the financial fair play rules will level the playing field, but I suspect City and Chelsea are already plotting ways around it. What's to stop them charging £100m a year for an executive box, or another subsidiary of their oil company sponsoring the shirts for a similar amount? In fact it's likely there will be more losers under FFP than winners. Nearly all of these will be the smaller teams like Wigan and Norwich etc. No one is going to sponsor them for £100m, and their match-day revenue won't scratch the surface of what the big clubs can earn. And what chance will the promoted teams have when they reach the promised land? At the root of all this will be the match ticket-price. If clubs want to compete, they will have to raise more money, and for most clubs the only way to do that is to get more out of the fans. With many teams having between a 25,000 and 40,000 capacity, their earning potential is limited by how much they charge to get in.

The brutal truth about teams like Man City and Chelsea is that they could afford to let everyone in for free, and not notice the loss of gate money. Man City have a 48,000 capacity, and if they charged £100 for every ticket they would make £4.8m a game. With 19 home games a season, that would earn them £91.2m. Throw in six cup games and you are up to about £120m. This massive figure would not even come close to what they have spent over the last few years. But City don't charge anything like £100 a ticket, so the figure they do earn from tickets will be considerably less, and even further away from their operating loss. The City fans who complained about the ticket cost have no right to take the moral high ground. I know they are mostly normal people, with normal jobs and incomes, but they have been supporting a club whose reckless spending has caused me, and many other football fans, to pay increasingly higher prices year on year just to stay in the game.

If clubs like City are allowed to continue unchecked, they will bring about the death of the game they are looking to dominate. It's obvious to anyone who goes to home matches that the attendances are dwindling. This may not be reflected in the official attendance figure, but the majority of no-shows are likely to be season-ticket holders, and as their ticket is already sold, they seem to be considered as being there. I expect this trend to continue until we are a successful team again. The unfortunate downside to dwindling attendances is less revenue for the club. Less revenue means, if it were possible, less money for team-building and less chance of success. And so on, until we have an average 40,000 crowd and even less chance of competing with City and Chelsea.

The only true way to level the playing field is to have transfer- and wages-caps that aren't based on income. If all teams could only spend a set amount on transfers and the wages they pay each season, they could reduce ticket prices to match the maximum expenditure. So a team with a 60,000 crowd could effectively charge half the amount of a team with a 30,000 crowd. Who knows? In an ideal world, it might even make the league competitive again.


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29
comments

  1. Simon Lloyd

    Jan 24, 2013, 19:22 #31167

    Thanks for all the comments. The point of the article was to highlight the ridiculous cost of watching top flight football. Although we all moan about it I found it hard to take that it was Man City fans who raised the issue, considering how it is their club that has continued to drive the prices up. The reported £100,000 a week for Walcott is an example of how Chelsea and City have forced other clubs into paying such high wages. They do this by signing the likes of Na$ri for £20M plus, and paying him double what Arsenal could afford. This puts Walcott in the very strong bargaining position of forcing the club to pay what he is asking for, or he will leave on a free and get a deal similar to Na$ri at either City, Chelsea or whoever is willing to pay him. Faced with losing another star, and the predictable backlash from the fans and media, the clubs finds itself between a rock and a hard place. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. I sympathise with every fan for what they have to pay to watch a match because I'm one of them, but unless the reckless clubs stop their out of control spending the price is more likely to go up rather than down. To the Ill informed City fans on this blog, Tublu & John I checked the highest attendance for an English league match and found that it was at Maine road in 1948. Unfortunately for you it was a game between Man Utd and Arsenal. Utd were using Maine road post war following damage to Old Trafford. Ian B, If you actually read the article I said it was Chelsea who do not sell out on a regular basis. Glowey, if you truly believe City are a club who are not indebted to anyone then you are a fool. You chastise Utd for having a large debt, yet your club has spent hundreds of millions above what it earns as a business. Boris, we built and paid for our stadium, rather than inherit one, and this has seriously curtailed our spending capacity. Maybe your benevolent sheik could refund the £112m cost to the various bodies that paid for it, instead of wasting it on jokers like Balotelli and co.

  2. Cloggs

    Jan 23, 2013, 10:49 #31118

    Last match vs Man City, I paid £95,70 for a ticket for the clock-end upper (incl. a ridiculous £4,50 internet booking fee, and £2,20 postage ???, postage?) The cheapest ticket I could get from the touts around Hollaway was £70!! Can the author of this article explain that to me? Oooh the "benefits" of being an Arsenal member!

  3. Gooner age

    Jan 19, 2013, 21:52 #31012

    Firstly I'm arsenal through and through but I respect city fans the crowds they were getting after successive relegations with their neighbours winning everything should not be forgotten. I would wonder if we would fill the emerites in league 1? Their owners like ours have shares in an asset and it's up to them if they put money in or not. It makes more sense for them to put money in as any fixed assets (or players) that the club loses or makes money on is ultimately theirs. This would not be different in ideology than the money the arsenal board had invested in the past to bring players like bergkamp to the club. The only strange thing here is the fans that have built arsenal, almost literally when you consider how much of our money is in the stadium, have no real say in how the club is run. I wonder what we'll think of this last decade if stan sells out to Make profit in a couple of years time and dispite all our negative talk we're completely powerless to stop an usmanov takeover. In the meantime we're loyal fans are priced out while the clubs share value, profits, managers wages and property portfolio are all lookin healthy!!

  4. Paul

    Jan 19, 2013, 19:07 #31010

    Its sad to read Arsenal fans have a go at the Citeh fans for boycotting the game.Are you really saying you are happy to pay these prices?.Its no good saying other clubs charge £50 plus for away games when our fans are paying the prices.We should take a leaf from the Citeh fans and boycott clubs who charge over £50 .£62 is driving the real fans away and filling the stadium with even more yuppies which is what Gazidis plan is

  5. lee afc

    Jan 19, 2013, 17:20 #31008

    man city's fan base will never grow much bigger as they have to live in the shadow of the other manc club up there. viera is mumbling about them building a dynasty over the next 10 years or so....only 9 clubs have carried this out since football began...in that I'm saying being a dominant force in certain eras since the early 1900's. Only Arsenal have done this twice (1930's..5 titles and 2 fa cups.. and Wengers early years..3 titles 4 fa cups) United being the most dominant for the longest (since 91)....so to all the citeh fans posting on here.....come back in 10 years time and maybe you can enter the discussions!!

  6. jjetplane

    Jan 19, 2013, 13:56 #31006

    Would you bother reading, let alone writing on some other club websites - me neither. Real football for gooners is laughing and hating the opposition. Especially home county wannabee northerners spouting on like a bunch of Tories about your helping your poor distant cousins up north I detect a major wobble in the works and a CL owned wholly by Spanish and German sides for the future. We have had our fun - now we can laugh at you!

  7. Mike

    Jan 19, 2013, 11:29 #31004

    Isn't City still subsidising Adebayour's salary despite him signing for Spurs? Johnno - spot on mate

  8. Alsace Lorraine De Totteridge

    Jan 19, 2013, 11:24 #31003

    1. Our gate money probably just about pays the wage bill. 2.Other operating costs and transfer fees and servicing the stadium debt from the TV money. 3. The wage bill is hopelssly mis-spent. 4. The club enjoy screwing us. It is no longer owned or run by Arsenal fans. 5. Henry Norris put just as much money into our club in the early 20th Century as Chelsea or Man City have had put into theirs.(relative terms, not absolute - obviously). 6. We have enough dosh to compete, we just have a moron spending it and ruining the team - that is why we should all be so very very angry. 7. Ergo, just as the mancs are saying, we are the architects of our own misfortune.

  9. bunch

    Jan 19, 2013, 11:13 #31002

    Some valid points here, but I applaud City fans for not coughing up to watch our team. You say Man City take a big chunk of blame for the the inflationary spiral that leads to £62 tickets, and you are probably right. But that is not City fans fault. They've been riding the wave of oil money and they haven't had a choice in the matter (same as we don't have a choice in having a tight-wad yank bloodsucker as an owner). But they do have a choice whether to turn up or not. City's rapid elevation to the elite of English football means their fan base hasn't "globalised" so they are in a unique position to shine a light on the crap that English football fans have to put up with. Well done for taking the opportunity and getting the subject talked about. And another thing...after 30 plus years of ALWAYS wanting the City to beat United, I can't just turn that off, so if the 3 points help City overcome rednose, van Staple****, that odious little turd Evra, rubber lips and their hardcore Surrey fans then it was a well taken loss.

  10. Spike

    Jan 19, 2013, 9:11 #31001

    Arsenal fans have been sending back their tickets in their tens of thousands for years now so it should be no surprise that 900 city fans have done the same.

  11. Andy M

    Jan 19, 2013, 9:11 #31000

    Good call about the way Citeh are over-inflating everything, from ticket prices to Balotelli, they're more like a soap, not a soccer team. As is says at home, Class Is Permament...

  12. Jock Gooner

    Jan 19, 2013, 7:17 #30999

    Oh do me a favour, pay up and shut up or f@~k off somewhere else if you don't like it. Its a free market, we are a business and we have been legally bought out by a rich boy who doesn't give a a **** about you or I. Don't like it? Tough! Stan has enough money that you don't matter and the apathy among the fans, sorry that should read loyalty, means nothing will happen about it. Bored with this subject.

  13. WHL87

    Jan 19, 2013, 2:08 #30998

    Johnno. Spot on.

  14. Gooner 48

    Jan 19, 2013, 0:05 #30996

    The bottom line is that City were charging Arsenal fans 'A' match prices while they were still a 'B' game at the Arsenal. So quite with the moaning you Sky Blue part-timers. Great to see that 900 or so of their fans missed their first win at Arsenal in a couple of Centuries - serves the feckers right. Why are Arsenal so expensive - because we are charged London prices. Not as if we're an outer suburb such as Salford or Manchester is it? The Scum recently paid £58 to watch their mob play QPR in and abject ****hole of a ground - so what.

  15. fifthcolumnblue

    Jan 18, 2013, 23:58 #30995

    I agree with every word in this article. Just as I'm sure every single Arsenal fan would agree that £50k per week for the likes of Carlos Vela and Johann Djourou was money well spent. Get a life you prize plum and start blaming your club for you £2000 season tickets.

  16. Boris

    Jan 18, 2013, 22:53 #30994

    The reason so many City are commenting on this ill-thought drivel is because it was tagged on newsnow.co.uk Manchester City - The ready-made excuse on which to blame your failings of your own club, what was your excuse before City started spending in 2009?

  17. Paddy Stood Up

    Jan 18, 2013, 22:03 #30992

    It's interesting seeing all the City fans on here moaning about the article. Can't figure out why they are here and as for the guy who claims Arsenal took advantage of the visitors being Man City to bump up the prices - you need to do your research a bit better sonny because Arsenal fans pay that price (and some pay a lot more in the upper tiers) to watch ALL the category A sides and yet we still sell out the ground. City fans moan about paying it once a season. Jog on.

  18. John

    Jan 18, 2013, 21:49 #30990

    Of course it may have had something to do with arsenal not being regarded as a team worth paying £62 to see? 84,569 is the biggest recorded home match which was at Maine road, Arsenal come in at 9th. Arsenal thought lets take advantage and it back fired slightly !

  19. Johnno

    Jan 18, 2013, 21:46 #30989

    Great article, pretty much agree with everything said. The failure of Man Sheiky fans to realize the damage their owner is doing to the longterm health of the game is staggering. As for our ticket prices, yes they are scandalous and no set of supporters should be made to pay 62 quid to watch a game of football. But 62 quid is the cheapest available seat for category A games at The Emirates and the home supporters have to dish out exactly the same amount for a similar seat. I believe that Citeh charged 56 pound to The Arsenal fans for the game at Eastlands this season and they were snapped up quick sharp by us. The real reason Citeh returned 900+ tickets is as you say, because they dont have a massive fan base and quoting crowds from 60 - 70 years ago wont change that fact. This is what makes me laugh about the modern day mindset, you only have to get a sugar daddy fund a club and deliver a bit of success and suddenly you are perceived as a big club. What a load of bollocks that is, The Chavs and Citeh are just glorified versions of Blackburn Rovers as far as I am concerned. Jack Walker done the same thing with them in the 90`s. Mansour could have poured his oily dough into Wigan and had a similar impact, would that make Wigan a big club? Not for me. I always think of the Evertonians when this talk about the big 4 crops up, they must pull their hair out in frustration everytime it is mentioned. Now they truly are a big club, with a great history and tradition and along with The Arsenal, Liverpool and Manure make up the real big 4. And I`ll tell you this much, Everton wouldnt have returned nearly a thousand tickets had they come down to The Emirates as defending Champions. As for The Citeh fans on here, good luck to you. I have always had a very small soft spot for you lot but enjoy your moment in the sun because if this financial FAIR play is properly instated you will soon find yourselves back into your natural position of flip flopping between the divisions, followed by a few seasons of mid-table mediocrity and then it will all start all over again because that is what your club is all about as history has shown us.

  20. DD

    Jan 18, 2013, 21:33 #30988

    Fans and ownership are c ompletely different so City fans have full right to complain about ticket prices. As they would if home game prices were so obscene. Many clubs who operate in similar fashion to Arsenal, such as several examples in the Bundesliga, make money and stay competitive without treating the fans like the dirt under their shoe.

  21. Glowey

    Jan 18, 2013, 21:16 #30987

    The first part of this "debate" was quite well reasoned but oh dear, you've really lost the plot in part two. "This current trend was started by Man Utd, when they were the richest club in the land", of course, Arsenal had no part in this when they were a top four team did they? "The clubs without billionaire owners, however, are forced either to pay the agent’s asking priceand risk the future of the club, or take a chance on a cheaper player and hope he turns out to be a bargain" Cobblers, why does a club have to pay what City or Chelsea do, unless those two clubs are after the same player, please explain? "Before the oil money started rolling in, City were similar in size and stature to Chelsea." As has already been pointed out, you should do some research before writing an article, it would save you a lot of embarrassment and ridicule. And, lets be honest, another couple of seasons of the dross Arsene is serving up and, you'll be reduced to only having a naturally medium-sized fan base. FFP there's a misnoma if ever there was one, if UEFA truly wanted a level playing field, they'd introduce both salary and transfer caps. All they are attempting to do is keep the big clubs feeding at the CL trough to the exclusion of all the others. I find it amazing that, your club would write a letter on behalf of Manu, Liverpool and Spurs, begging the FA to impose even more stringent rules on spending, in an attempt to get back to the dominance you and they enjoyed when they were the big spenders, disingenuous just doesn't cover it adequately. As for bringing about the death of the game, I would suggest the PL has never been healthier, with TV rights being sold for ever increasing amounts to countries all around the world. I also fail to see how a club that pays cash for its signings, doesn't owe a penny to anyone and is just embarking upon the development of a training facility that will bring hundreds of jobs to a deprived area of Manachester can be bad for football and, need to be brought into line financialy when, not 5 miles across the city is a club with loans of 800 million and growing, has been bought by leverage on the club can be held up as a shining example of how a club should be run.

  22. simon

    Jan 18, 2013, 20:55 #30986

    2 facts 1. city charged us £59 2. chelsea's average price to away fans is £50, Arsenal's £40. Arsenal aren't the villans here, all the EPL are at it and it needs all clubs to agree fair treatment for all away fans ie a set price every club charges every away fan

  23. Dan h

    Jan 18, 2013, 20:37 #30984

    The away fans in this league often get fleeced anyway without checking was it £55 for the reverse fixture at City?Add up all the additional costs of following your team it's a very expensive day out factor in the tv companies changing ko times with not much notice the actual attending fan can rightly feel agrieved.City have always had a large loyal support they have seen some real low points which they have bounced back from culminating in last years title win good luck to the ones that stuck by them in those dark days.Clubs will always look to charge what they think they can get from tv,sponsers & finally supporters.If you don't like it you vote with your feet.All clubs should be carefull the best PL advert around the world is full vibrant stadiums.Forget some of the scandals but when seria A was the top league it became boom & bust partly due to scandals the fans walked away.The sponsors followed so did the investment of owners tv money dwindled.We have a very wealthy man waiting in the wings who would take over & within the next ten years it could well become the my dads richer than your dad league.Supporters were the heartbeat of a club not now owners tv sponsors fans in that order imo.

  24. Paul

    Jan 18, 2013, 20:29 #30983

    What a stupid article.The City fans are not billionaires its their owner.We as Arsenal supporters should be ashamed that our once great club is fleecing not just away fans but our own fans.WE ARE IN A RECESSION.And when City were in the old 3rd division their average gates were 32,000.Would our JCL's watch Arsenal in the 3rd division.This on a day we gave that w****r Walcott £100k a week

  25. g clarke

    Jan 18, 2013, 20:09 #30981

    The fans at the Swansea match got behind the team maybe the ones sending message staying away done arsenal good turn and your right teams that have money with no worry of making ends meet will ruin football

  26. MarkH

    Jan 18, 2013, 19:46 #30980

    Two very good articles,spelling out some of the facts behind how we arrived at the current hideous ticket prices. Tublu might have a point,I have not checked. It is however obvious to most,that the money being pumped in by his clubs present owners is helping to destroy football. p.s I am all for free speech,but why do opposition fans read Arsenal forums.

  27. Ian B

    Jan 18, 2013, 19:33 #30978

    Your ignorance is alarming to say the least. City have sold out every home game in the league for 2 and a half years, they also sold out in all but one Champs League games. As the correspondent states below they also have the record attendance as stated. It may also be news to you that they won trophies before Manu, Liverpool, Chelsea and guess what Arsenal. Why would City's spending impact upon Arsenal ticket prices, surely the vast sums paid fir your players should have helped your club reduce prices! You would be well advised to look at the failings of your own club than trash talk others.

  28. Mike

    Jan 18, 2013, 19:27 #30977

    Sonny, you need to wake up. I like Arsenal - always try to play football (albeit G Graham time), but dont you see football is a business and the Arsenal owners are constantly charging the most for tickets, selling their best players and replacing with mediocre. Unfortunately they are taking the most important part of the club (the fans) for a ride. They even try brainwashing you with the signs around the stadium (i.e. "you can buy class"). Dont kid yourself. The boycott last weekend was mainly due to sending a message. Other clubs dont charge £62, so ask yourself why Arsenal have to ? If you get the answer then maybe you can figure out the bigger picture.

  29. Tublu

    Jan 18, 2013, 19:20 #30976

    Whining gooner Simon ( simple variety) care to do ANY research here ? Can you dig out the record attendance for an English league match and then integrate that fact into your ridiculous claim that city's fan base came along post lottery win.