Wenger Messiah

The Cult of Arsène?



Wenger Messiah

More loaves and fish than sausage and caviar?


Ever debated with a religious fundamentalist? Ever done so and afterwards thought - what a waste of time that was. The faith of a religious person can be so devout, that even if you were to provide conclusive proof that God does not exist, their faith would remain strong. The typical scientist is an atheist or an agnostic and does not believe in God. If you were to provide a scientist with strong evidence that there is a God, then they would happily change their viewpoint. Many of us think that Arsene Wenger is spent force in top class European football. However, if he were to make the club genuine contenders once again, then we would change our opinion. We therefore expect the same open-minded attitude from those who still say that Wenger is the Messiah and Saviour.

The AKB belief in Wenger is almost cult like and on the verge of a religion. It’s very difficult to provide them with evidence that Wenger’s recent teams have been a letdown, because they believe that 4th place is success. When we try and tell them it isn’t, we’re treated like blasphemers.

Imagine if Arsene Wenger were to build another great team that wins a title? A trophy that is actually made of metal. If that were to happen, then we non-believers would run down the street singing hallelujah whilst enjoying a taste of humble pie.

The point is that Wenger detractors would love to stand corrected if future evidence is provided of genuine success. We will be prepared to change our opinion if proven wrong. The problem with expecting the same attitude from the typical AKB, is that there doesn’t seem to be a cut off point to concede that Wenger is failing to maximise the club’s potential. Around 2006/07, many of us were concerned about the drop in standard and questioned the manager’s direction. The common response we got was being told to be patient: “Wenger’s rebuilding - give it a couple of years”. We were very patient. But in 2013 many of us are staggered, and our intelligence insulted, that the very same excuses have been given.

A fundamentalist will never concede that anything is wrong with their religion. Some AKB’s are just as stubborn. To give just one of countless examples, I’m sure you all remember Wenger’s strop at the press conference before the home tie with Bayern Munich. On Radio Five Live the next day, an AKB spokesman said that this was most likely a deliberate ploy by Wenger to deflect the pressure away from the team and on to him. Really! That is the excuse of a fundamentalist who ignores reality. Loyalty and faith is to be admired, but not blind faith.

Therefore we are curious to know what the cut off time is for the AKB’s belief system. How many years of Arsenal being journeymen will it take for them to change their opinion and how much evidence is needed? The expectation should be for Wenger to build a title challenging team in the next year. The Premier League is weak and Arsenal have the funds, so no more excuses.

Here is what will probably happen: Wenger will go another one or two seasons without winning anything. Then we will win a League Cup or an FA Cup and the Messiah will be given another decade to do whatever he wants (just so long as the club make profit). Unless there is a major change in Wenger’s direction, waiting for him to provide a title contending team might be as long and drawn out as evolution.

Matthew Bazell is the author of Theatre of Silence: The Lost Soul of Football.


NEW! Subscribe to our weekly Gooner Fanzine newsletter for all the latest news, views, and videos from the intelligent voice of Arsenal supporters since 1987.

Please note that we will not share your email address with any 3rd parties.


Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

74
comments

  1. BADARSE

    Jun 13, 2013, 9:44 #35681

    I have no wish to upset you David,by shaking your temple,it is yours after all.Mathematics is a remarkable tool,we both agree on that,and well done to you for teaching it.However a perception of democracy exists only as a concept in the mind's of people. Therefore it's interpretation, and it's implementation, takes many shapes and forms.The country you hold up as a beacon of this concept allows a democratic right for the existence of vast amounts of soup kitchens,racism within the fabric of the whole society,and a rampant fear of that which is different.Use the word 'egalitarian' in many quarters and you are a 'pinko'.Probability is a gauge,no more,though a very useful one.Had the gangster Abramovitch not arrived on the scene when he did,in all probability,our passage,and that of Premier League football would have followed a different course.Probability does not cater for,nor consider the quirkiness of humanity's involvement,or incredible changes wrought on any given subject.This is why I live in hope of better things.The things humanity devises cannot be responsible for humanities excesses.This is a fundamental flaw with the blindness of religion,the two aspects come in tandem.That is humanity!The organism that is a human being is both capable of the wisdom and understanding of Socrates,and those that murdered him.Both sides of the same coin.As we are.Yet we share a common goal of AFC success,so I wish to share that with you,as soon as circumstance allows.Here's to next season Gooner.

  2. David

    Jun 12, 2013, 15:53 #35658

    BADARSE - As a maths teacher I appreciate the significance of maths, especially probability. In all probability, same manager = same finish. Therefore AMG. Presumably you're referring to the greatest democracy on earth as the greatest warmonger? Only goes to serve the point about humanity - the things humanity devises for good never restrain our worst excesses. And all of human history backs that up, whether it's in science, philosophy or Ashburton Grove. Therefore GKB.

  3. BADARSE

    Jun 12, 2013, 10:06 #35654

    David,perhaps your name gives you away?Love those scientists?You bet!They gave us medicine,a clear comprehension of all that is,especially mathematics,which governs everything.Without that,how on earth would we work out the goal difference next season, between 4th and 5th?Am already planning my celebration dance for securing a Champions League spot in the final game.Oh yes!The scientists split the atom,but the most warmongering nation this planet has ever seen decide to kill innocents with the knowledge;a political and military mentality.

  4. David

    Jun 11, 2013, 15:36 #35631

    You gotta love those scientists - split the atom, design nuclear weapons, but as long as they're not hoodwinked into believing in God, they are the model for us all. GKB.

  5. BADARSE

    Jun 10, 2013, 22:32 #35587

    Well I think the observation and comment about the photo is perfectly valid,and am annoyed at myself that I overlooked criticising it.Sometimes you feel you've just turned over a 'Get out of jail'card,that's how I feel in this instance,baled out by Rocky RIP.You know Gooners,these kind of things are 'not up for grabs'.I was sickened at the time,I am still awash with dismay, at the levels the so called,sporting public can sink to.These kind of stunts are things every fan in the country should abhor,they don't,but we should!Especially in defence of our own manager.Did you not feel a 'Spartacus' moment when it was occurring?I did!I would have gone and stood with him,given half the chance.A shameful event,perpetrated by the 'McDonald's' of the Premier League.Let's have a bit of pride back,please gentlemen,and gentlewomen.

  6. Rocky RIP

    Jun 10, 2013, 18:33 #35583

    @ Paddy - I make no apology for picking up on the choice of photo. The unpunished abuse OUR manager has taken at Old Trafford (eg. the 'sit down you paedophile' chant for daring to stand up by that very dug out) is sickening enough without our own fans joining in the mocking. If you wanted a photo of him looking unappreciated by those around him, there are numerous others featuring those who count - Arsenal fans. Or (cue hilarity from Clive Tydlesly) have one of him struggling to do up the zip on his (frankly dreadful) coat.

  7. Rocky RIP

    Jun 10, 2013, 18:13 #35582

    @Andy 'To those who defend Wenger please defend.. Giroud.. What you cant?' - er, yes, I can, very comfortably thanks. Point taken on the others, it goes without saying with that shower, but I've always defended Giroud on here. A soft and unreasonable target. He needs more strength in depth and quality around him. (You also mention Arshavin. Anyone who says they weren't delighted when we signed him is a liar. Who really knows why the lazy, overweight Russian's career tailed off?)

  8. Paddy

    Jun 10, 2013, 18:06 #35580

    Jeez! I know people like to have a moan, but now they are picking on the choice of photo? I'd say it's quite appropriate for the article to be honest, but it's also about your perspective. For example, if you wanted to put it in a positive light, you could say that it is Wenger standing defiantly whilst he is mocked by people who do not appreciate him.

  9. Chris

    Jun 10, 2013, 16:53 #35578

    Good point by Rocky RIP re the photo. Admin - who chose that and can they justify why?

  10. Rocky RIP

    Jun 10, 2013, 15:55 #35573

    Can you imagine some northern monkey Man U site with a picture of their manager being heckled at our place? Effectively ridiculing him. Get a grip 'Gooners'!

  11. Simon

    Jun 09, 2013, 21:42 #35551

    Although I agree with your sentiment, you really have to learn how write properly. This reminds me of essays I wrote at college

  12. Dixon Arsene Seaman

    Jun 09, 2013, 19:14 #35542

    I refuse to mock anyone who delivers us a truly sensational, swashbuckling, unbeaten season with a title clinched under the noses of 'that lot.' EVER. For that he'll always be forgiven, even if he is far from perfect. (Why post up a picture of him getting yet more abuse at Old Trafford? Whose side are people on?!)

  13. BADARSE

    Jun 09, 2013, 17:59 #35539

    OK,John Gooner.Firstly I never said my inane ramblings would be educated or intelligent.I just wanted to infer I would make an educated and intelligent critique of the article.It's always left to others to decide the merit of any written piece.My education was OK actually,how lucky we are in the west, to have such opportunities to expand and learn.Intelligence?Ah,now that's a completely different thing.You can't teach intelligence,but you can teach someone to behave more intelligently.It also comes in different guises,as in mine and yours,intelligence nonetheless.One point.You levelled criticism at me for judging another,and I didn't.I offered my view of the article and it's perceived failings.I think that the cowards who set themselves up as judges to attack Arsene Wenger are the people wearing their guilt for all to see.Think about it.Nice touch Big L.

  14. Big L

    Jun 09, 2013, 16:14 #35533

    its not cultish to have faith that a manager that once delivered so many trophies may do so once again. you sound like a fair weather fan to me. support him when he wins, desert him when he doesnt. get a grip...

  15. John Gooner

    Jun 09, 2013, 12:24 #35521

    BADARSE - Where were you educated? I'm no snob, but I think you need to let others decide whether your inane ramblings are intelligent or educated... Write your own article if you see fit to judge others so freely. Put up or shut up!

  16. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 08, 2013, 19:02 #35498

    theo's bikini-line, i couldn't agree more, if ogl were to suddenly win something this coming season or the next it most certainly would not suddenly make every thing alright, to many mistakes have been made, to many bad decisions, to many humiliations, over the last eight seasons to just forget, it would take more than one pot for him to have the support he used to have.

  17. Richard

    Jun 08, 2013, 16:46 #35483

    As a true Christian (not a religionist) I will remind you that God does everything for his own glory not for mans. Out of pure grace he saves a few though the majority he sends to hell for eternal damnation. Every single Arsenal result past and present God has already predetermined, whether Wenger goes stays wins trophies whatever God decided long ago, if he hadn't he wouldn't be God. This is all done by God to frustrate the reprobate, which is why so many get annoyed.

  18. theo's bikini-line

    Jun 08, 2013, 13:32 #35474

    The one thing I would disagree with is the notion that if Wenger managed to win another trophy, then all of the critics would automatically have been proven wrong. Even if Wenger does manage to pull out a triumph or two during the next couple of years, that still wouldn't make up for his bad signings; poor team selections; playing people out of their proper position; lack of tactical nouse and planning for the opposition; failure to pay enough attention to and sort out our long standing defensive deficiencies; his reluctance to accept certain players were up to the required standard/too injury prone and stubborness in retaining them; his over-reliance on youth when the signing of a couple of experienced heads could have helped both them and the club progress quicker. All of these things - and other criticisms that many were making at the time that I haven't touched on - are contributing reasons why he hasn't brought success for so long and wouldn't, in my mind be invalidated by any subsequent trophy haul we might get under Wenger.

  19. BADARSE

    Jun 08, 2013, 13:04 #35471

    As an aggressive atheist,my description,and am very happy with,I have to give an intelligent and educated response to this article. My earlier comments were directed at the other comments.Firstly,I don't like the platform that I use to negate religion or it's adherents,being used against my personal position as an Arsenal fan.I see the AFC-bashers as the fundamentalists,of which I include you too,sadly,Matthew.You were being irreligeous,in a grammatical sense,by using religion as a tool to support your point,(which basically was, I don't like Wenger,I want to win things.)You can make the slipper fit if you squeeze the foot into it.I have no religion;I see reality,mine.It is shared by others why should that make me,them,blind,obsessive,and having a Luddite mindset?I Am reluctant to accept your overall view of things because I don't share your sense of reality.It is easy to snipe,do you see,I've been doing it right back at you.I do not worship Arsene Wenger;I may not agree with a number of outlooks of his ,or his conduct or approach on certain issues.Guess what?Nor do I, with a number of family members that I love and trust.I say this,and with pride,I am gloriously thankful that his path in life dissected mine.In 1963 I saw Pepe score a banana-kick goal at Wembley in a 1-1 draw.The media went 'bananas'over it.Then suddenly my team were doing it!To change the phrase,'It's like watching Brazil',to,'It's like watching Arsenal' gave me something I never thought I would posess.When/if he fails,in my universe(Itmy sense of reality),I will accept it and welcome the new man,(as long as it isn't Pulis).It is very easy Matthew,to deride an individual by insisting they won't recognise failure.To win a trophy and accept it was worthwhile, does make a Wenger opponent similar to an atheist,in having a god revealed to them.However the nebulous criticism,which you aim at those seen as Wenger supporters like me,(though as I keep insisting I am an Arsenal fan,first and last),is very much a religious arguement.I cannot create a magnificent spectacle to illuminate in black and white whether a man is right or wrong,to stay or go.You use an arguement of all faith believers;the best riposte was by Bertrand Russell when he refuted a god saying 'If it was suggested a teapot orbitted Mars it could neither be proved or disproved'.Ergo,my position.Trophies equates with success,non-trophies does not register failure.

  20. Chris

    Jun 08, 2013, 11:38 #35463

    Very bizarre article, the sub-text of which seems to be that if you have viewed the same evidence as the author and come to a different conclusion you are a closed-minded fundamentalist. How beautifully, perfectly ironic! Presumably Mr Bazell doesn't do self-awareness....

  21. JB

    Jun 08, 2013, 10:50 #35454

    Oh wow Matthew. It is people like you who are the poison in our great football club! Its not a case of people backing Wenger and being an AKB. It is simply ARSENAL fans SUPPORTING the TEAM - that includes the MANAGER! I just wish people who spout this vitriol like you would just go onto websites and into stadiums where there is not support for Arsenal because that is what you are doing...not supporting the team. With regards to this religious argument, the response you received to this article is entirely correct, you people who keep brandishing the AKB label are mere fanatics in the religious sense. Here's a tip Matthew, either just support the team while looking at the facts (consistent top 4 finishes while spending far less than rivals!) or just stop watching if Wenger makes you so unhappy. Let me tell you, you won't be missed!

  22. Getyergooner

    Jun 08, 2013, 9:44 #35451

    When are you Wenger bashers going to get it? Wenger has spent recent seasons balancing the books while the new stadium was being paid for. Under these circumstances he's kept us in the top four and got us to three cup finals, including a Champions League final. He's finally got some real money to spend foe the first time in years(have you been reading the papers?). Judge him on what he's doing from now, he"s track record in his first eight years at the club earns him that right. He's got the chance to build on the form team of 2013, so far, and for the first time for a while he's not battling to keep a star player from leaving the club. Let's see what happens shall we?

  23. Marky mark 2

    Jun 08, 2013, 7:46 #35450

    I can understand that we had to be frugal in the transfer market due to the move to Ashburton Grove, so why did he buy players like Santos, Park and the Squid ?

  24. Wombledin

    Jun 08, 2013, 7:20 #35448

    Clouseau would've been gone already if it weren't for the fact he had tremendous success early on. Most gooners simply believe he still has that magic in him but that he has been constrained by new stadium debt limitations and the Board's lack of ambition. Now he has no excuse budget-wise, so my fear is rather than start spending properly again he is now going to use the moral high horse he's on about FFP to continue to be nothing more now than a kind of Arsenal version of Warren Moyes while at Everton, ie, win no silverware but punch slightly above your weight spending-wise. Personally I don't think anything will ever change and he will get offered another contract unless and until we drop out of the top four.

  25. LondonBoy

    Jun 08, 2013, 7:13 #35447

    I think Marcelo Bielsa would be the best replacement for Wenger. I also think Wenger has to go, though I still admire him. He should get a statue just like Henry :)

  26. N4

    Jun 08, 2013, 6:59 #35446

    Wow!!! All the AKB's are out for this editor it seems! I support your article fully and agree with every word!

  27. Ali

    Jun 08, 2013, 5:28 #35444

    For me the cut off point was 2009 League Cup final. When a manager who hasn't won anything for five six seasons can't motivate his players to win against a very inferior team then he clearly has a problem. We played very badly in that match despite the fact that they got lucky with the winning goal.

  28. Andy

    Jun 08, 2013, 0:19 #35442

    To those who defend Wenger please defend Bendtner Arshavin Denlison Squillaci Park Santos Chamakh Giroud and Gervinho.What you cant?Who bought this crap?Yes Arsene Knows.We dont have a keeper a CB a DM and TWO strikers.But dont worry according to Gazidis Bale Ronaldo and bale are one their way and we will win the quadruple next season

  29. GG89

    Jun 07, 2013, 23:14 #35440

    Wenger´s interested in money.... Why spend the cash when he can have a massive pay off when he retires after 20 years in north london... He´s great at protect himeself and he´s budget, and underperforming palyers... wise up, take a break he has to retire/die at some time!

  30. BADARSE

    Jun 07, 2013, 21:54 #35438

    Another article,unlike the Simon Rose one, this one is poor.Though Matt can write,that's a given, I think this was just a throat-clearing,flemy piece of tosh. Sorry lads,but my words regarding the comments on the last article's tweets are the same again.The criticisms and defence of Arsene Wenger are trite.The thing I struggle with,as an Arsenal fan of many years,is that I feel I have to defend my love and support for the greatest club that I have had the the pleasure and privilege to support.My life is richer because of Arsenal F.C.That's it guys!My club,my manager,my players,my fans...all of you.Arsene Wenger has long since become a punchbag for disappointed and disaffected supporters.You are not blue meanies,just real frustrated fans.I too have my own frustrations,but why rant and rave?Arsene Wenger will leave when he decides it's the time to go.Live with the realisation or continue banging your heads against a wall.For my part,I am an Arsenal fan,a Gooner,and I love my club.I would write all those things if David Cameron was our manager,(though it would make me sick),or the Archbishop of Canterbury was,(which would make me sicker).Keep it positive,or try to be original please.

  31. Big Andy

    Jun 07, 2013, 21:31 #35437

    As somebody who dearly wants to see Wenger go I was going to write some of my own anti-Wenger stuff on this page. But having read so much that I agree with, I would just like to write something positive which just might appeal to the AKBs. And so I ask you people a simple question: do you want us to be successful? If the answer is yes then here's how we can do it: We need a bright young manager who is prepared to buy big or small name and then pay them the wages that they deserve - no more, no less. Will Wenger do that? Would he buy a huge star and then pay him 200k a week? Of course not. And that's why we'll never win the league under him.

  32. exiled&dangerous

    Jun 07, 2013, 21:29 #35436

    Babatunde - please, (almost) anybody but fecking Coldplay.

  33. 600NER PETE

    Jun 07, 2013, 20:37 #35435

    Arsene supporters often argue that he has had limited funds, but this does not explain the number of reasonably priced, good quality players that we have missed out on (usually not French!) and instead bought complete dross (usually French!) and then paid them far too much. If only over the years we had bought players of the quality of Cahill, Vertonghen, Enrique, Mata, Michu etc and KEPT players such as Cole, Cesc and Van Persie. Imagine what sort of team we could be watching now at no extra cost than watching crap like Gervinho,Bendtner,Giroud,Denilson,Squillaci, Djourou,Chamakh,Diaby,Santos etc. I've had enough. My red membership and my son's silver membership would cost me £88 for a year. This is just to give me the privilege of being able to buy a ticket if I want. I am not going to let the club take the p**s out of me anymore. The one thing that has kept me hanging on was that OGL had only one year left. The thought of Wenger staying on beyond this year is the last straw. Very depressing.

  34. Ronster

    Jun 07, 2013, 19:17 #35433

    Arsenal won League titles and FA Cups before he arrived.Bertie Mee won a European trophy at his first attempt and George Graham at his second.Wenger has failed in 24 attempts with Arsenal and Monaco.Has got nowhere near matching the home grown talent brought through under Don Howe...Tony Adams,Martin Keown,David Rocastle,Michael Thomas,Paul Davis,Paul Merson would all walk into the present team and kick a few backsides in the process.The new stadium?...didn't we move from south London in 1913 and survive to completely rebuild Highbury and dominate English football at the same time under the guidance of Herbert Chapman? I didn't need Wenger to tell me our facilities and capacity needed attention as we approached the 21st century.Did Wenger identify the site for Ashburton Grove? Did he negotiate the loans and stadium sponsorships? Did he fund it personally? Was he up at dawn every morning laying bricks? I see Tottenham's plans for their new stadium are well advanced despite their managerial merry go round and the economic downturn.Has Wenger got us in reality any nearer to the likes of Real Madrid and AC Milan? Stylish football?....saw plenty under George Graham pre 1992.A visionary?...don't make me f***ing laugh.The Hungarians showed us the way in 1953 and the FA still refuse to examine the video to this day.However the likes of Ron Greenwood ,Dave Sexton, Malcolm Allison and Bobby Robson were clever enough to take note.Even the dour Keith Burkinshaw was enlightened enough to bring Ardiles and Villa to these shores...Tottenham played some wonderful football bagging domestic and European pots.Hell he even brought down Steve Archibald from Aberdeen and made a handsome profit when selling him onto Barcelona! The new training ground and medical facilities?...fat lot of use that's proved to be and haven't Spurs got one too? Shall I mention the hundreds of millions wasted on tranfer fees and wages? The humiliating record defeats? The pathetic quotes?The whinging? The destruction of the never say die ethos of the club? The Invincibles?...got nowhere near winning the European Cup and back to back titles.George Graham's 1991 team only lost one game despite having their captain detained at Her Majesy's pleasure for 3 months and having 2 points deducted for standing up to Fergie in his back yard. Happy days!

  35. Moscow Gooner

    Jun 07, 2013, 18:47 #35432

    'Arsenal can afford Wayne Rooney says Chief Executive' - typical season ticket renewal time hype although I think said CE spoilt it all and scored a hattrick of own goals when he went on to talk about AW being 'indestructible' and that 'he could go on and on' in the manager's role. That was enough for me not to renew for 2013/14. (In any case how could we think about signing Rooney? He's done nothing to prove himself so far in Ligue One!!)

  36. markymark

    Jun 07, 2013, 18:35 #35431

    Personally I think he should go, but it aint gonna happen. Let him do the last year of his contract, and see what top top players he gets in this summer. This could be laying a good foundation for a manager of the calibre Frank Rykjard, Lowe or Klopp coming in once Wenger has honoured his contract. If Wenger does not buy the players we need to actually challenge for the Premier league or the Champions league then we can replace him with top, top manager that will.

  37. UTU

    Jun 07, 2013, 18:31 #35430

    Bang on The Money Matt. Wenger has a Job for life and is not accountable to anyone include the supporters. The Wenger Cult can continue to fund the wealth of billionaires and millionaires but I won't. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  38. Canterbury Gooner

    Jun 07, 2013, 18:06 #35429

    KebBrute the bigger picture? Perhaps then you could enlighten us as to this sound financial practice? Are you aware the club has had an operating loss of £20-30m each season, which necessitates players sales should they like to post a profit? Are you aware that this is due to the club wasting tens of millions in wages on deadwood players who have no resale value? Are you aware that far better players could have been bought for the money we have? Demba or Giroud? Oh yes Wenger bought the latter so let's defend him. But do inform us as to the details of this bigger picture, please...

  39. unchives

    Jun 07, 2013, 18:01 #35428

    Arsene is in the last year of his contract, all the new sponsers will be on board including the new TV deal. He now has the money.....no excuses this time. This season is ARSENALS Season!COME ON THE GOONERS!

  40. ArsenalNumerOne

    Jun 07, 2013, 17:50 #35427

    We don't need new players! Our squad has enough deth. For example I still think Gervinho will be the new Robert Pires. Next year will be his break through!

  41. maguiresbridge gooner

    Jun 07, 2013, 17:45 #35426

    When is the cut of point ? A good question Matthew and one i suspect we'll never get an answer to, when does every body realise and agree he's failed ? how many years does it take to convince ? how many mistakes does it take ? how many humiliations does it take ? it's been eight years of failure so far and counting and if it were to reach twelve he'd probably still have his devotees making excuses for him, there's one over the page who still actually thinks we need to be patient.I personally know two fully paid up members of the cult of Arsene who think no matter how bad he does he's still the right man for the job, and wait for this one, if he got us relegated he is the right man to get us up again, i kid you not. I agree there can be no more excuses there's been enough of them to last a life time, if the king of spin is to be believed everything's in place for Arsene to deliver, but if he fails again i'm sure he'll still have his followers who think he's the right man for the job. Good Article Matthew.

  42. Shahid Aziz

    Jun 07, 2013, 17:39 #35425

    There is a notion, that when countries keep getting lumbered every five years with useless governments, that the electorate get the government they deserve, and the rationale behind said notion is that people complain about governments and political parties, but as sure as eggs is eggs, and that the sky is blue, and that dogs love licking their testicles, people still go out and vote for a set of scumbags. Well apply that same logic to the AKBs, and quite honestly they deserve Wenger. They don't give a rat's turd about the fact that Arsenal Football Club, a fine and honourable sporting institution, has been reduced to a joke and a sad, pathetic shadow of what it should be. Let them: Be happy to pay the most expensive domestic tickets in world football. Be happy to see our best players sold on an annual basis just so we can be "self sufficient". Be happy to be knocked out of prestigious and historic cup competitions by the likes of Blackburn Rovers and Bradford City. Be happy to be in the Champions League simply to make up the numbers, and nothing else. Be happy to shell out hard earned cash to see us knocked out of the Cup by the likes of Stoke, Sunderland and Blackburn. Be happy in the knowledge that their Dear Leader is happy to completely disrespect both domestic cup competitions, after all, it's only the paying supporters he's mugging off, why should he care about those plebs? It's not as if they pay his wages...(!) Be happy in the knowledge that the League Cup is a good enough competition for Utd to have won three times in the last eight years, that the FA Cup is good enough for Chelsea to have won four times in the last eight years, and for City to have won two years ago, but not worthy enough to strive towards for a very poor Arsenal team in the eyes of their beloved St. Arsene of Wenger. Be happy in your knowledge that we could, and indeed should, have signed Cahill and Mata... ...and instead got Squillaci and Gervinho. Be happy in the knowledge that their Dear Leader has absolutely no qualms whatsoever in letting the contracts of world class players like RVP run down to the wire, while signing deadwood dross like Djourou and Diaby to long term deals. I mean it's not as if the £50-60k a week they're on is coming out of supporters pockets or anything...(!) Be happy in the knowledge that we have gone from competing with Utd... ...to selling to Utd. That's okay though, because you can always slag off RVP/Nasri/Song/Cesc for being disloyal/Judas c***s when the reality of the situation is that they they are neither and they have all won a major piece of silverware in their first seasons at their current clubs since leaving us. Frankly, I have no idea why I even bothered typing this post, as it will inevitably mean nothing to the AKBs, especially as despite every point I have made there will no doubt be at least one snidey little AKB lemming popping up with some asinine defence of their beloved Dear Leader. I do it because I want change. I do it because am sick to the back teeth of seeing a once great institution become a parody, a joke, a sick and emaciated shell of its former glorious self. I do it because I give a damn. Wake up AKBs. Arsenal FC established 1886, NOT, and I cannot stress the "NOT" enough, Arsene FC established 1996. Toodle Pip!

  43. Tim

    Jun 07, 2013, 17:36 #35424

    I don't wanna be dogmatic or anything but I think it's blasphemy to scrutinize Wenger!

  44. John Gooner

    Jun 07, 2013, 17:01 #35423

    Wenger works in mysterious ways ay KebBrute? Non believers like ourselves could not possibly hope to understand 'the bigger picture'....

  45. Kenny

    Jun 07, 2013, 16:57 #35422

    When the greatest manager ever Sir Alex Ferguson retired there were not thousands of Man Utd fans outside Old Trafford slashing their wrists yet the mere mention that Wenger should go has thousands of AKB's lining up to jump off Suicide bridge.Do these deluded fools ever want Arsenal to be successful again?If so why do you back Wenger.He aint ever going to bring success to Arsenal again.The two winnable cups the FA cup and League cup he doesnt care about.And we dont have a pray of winning the Prem or the CL.But the fools hide behind the new stadium(yeah the one that was going to get us to compete with Barcelona and Madrid).Unless Kroenke.Gazidis and Wenger go the trophy drought will continue for ever.Next year remember is the 10 year anniversary of the Invincibles that should be a reminder of how we have fallen.The talk of Rooney and Fellaini joining is just that talk

  46. KebBrutre

    Jun 07, 2013, 16:45 #35421

    It is a real shame that only selective information is provided in this article to make a somewhat weak point. Yes, it is true that most Arsene believers - like myself - are close to unwavering in our support of him. Clearly for a club with the stature of Arsenal should have been doing better in the last few years. What this article is missing are the myriad of reasons why players sign for or leave a club. This cannot necessarily all be laid at financial weakness or Arsene Wenger. Other clubs are involved, the players' agents as well as the players themselves. Another weakness to this article is referring to quotes of the past to dismiss what the Chief Executive has just said. Rather than reading quotes, try reading a full transcript. Nothing Gazidis has said in the past or in the last couple of days has shown anything less than an astute understanding of running a football club responsibly. It may not be this season when the rewards of our frugality will be enjoyed (though I do believe we will be more competitive), but it will be in the seasons following this one when our financial robustness will end up proving that the board and Arsene have been right all along. Most 'AKBs' support Wenger because they can see the bigger picture.

  47. Tony Evans

    Jun 07, 2013, 15:36 #35419

    The ground is being prepared for Wenger's contract extension. Gazedis is spouting the usual rubbish about spending and has said Wenger is for the 'long term'. My take on it is that the board are afraid to wait until the end of yet another trophyless season (which it no doubt will be under Wenger) as a new contract for a manager that has won nothing since 2005, despite managing one of the richest clubs in the world, will be even harder to justify in 2014 then it is now. My other point is that Gazedis must think we are all mugs - Wenger would not sign a player like Rooney that would challenge his authority and cost a small fortune which would then put the pressure on him to actually win something. Wenger and the board are in their comfort zone and nothing is going to change as long as the cash keeps rolling in. At least they don't get any of mine anymore.

  48. Proof

    Jun 07, 2013, 15:27 #35417

    Matthew's article is brilliant because the responses being offered by the AKBs are the kind you would expect from a brainwashed cult! There's no evidence or substance to their moans. Just angry blind faith. The FACTS have been presented to them: 8 years, no trophies. 'Cannot compete' yet keep selling players to Citeh, Chelski and lately Manure. 'Cannot compete' but pay the manager £7.5 mil a year, more than Ferguson was on! 'Cannot compete' but a wage bill of over £150 mil. 'Cannot compete' but have cash eserves of over £120 mil. 'Cannot compete' but even Wigan, Swansea, Pompy and Birminghan won trophies! And remind me again who did Birmingham embarrass in the cup final? Oh but I forgot...CANNOT COMPETE! Pfffft. All the evidence is there set in stone: 8 years, no trophies. Full stop. He is a failure. The wage bill is set in stone. Our cash reserves, the largest in Europe, set in stone. Wenger's joke salary, set in stone. Losing to Bradford and Blackburn in same season, set in stone. Being the 4th richest club in the world, set in stone by Forbes and Deloitte. There is NOWHERE TO HIDE. Wenger never having won a CL, set in stone. All the evidence is there. Yet the AKBs come out and the more the evidence is presented to them, the more defiant they get. Just like those crazy religious cult-worshippers who pour vitriol on anyone who dares to present them with a factual case! The AKB responses in this article are superb as they prove what a CULT it now is. It ain't about Arsenal. It's about Arsene. What a joke!

  49. allybear

    Jun 07, 2013, 15:13 #35416

    Cant believe that AW is rated as the best manager in Europe,its laughable&pathetic&typical of his supporters who are totally deluded by the drivel he speaks.Makes my blood boil this kind of nonsense!

  50. John Gooner

    Jun 07, 2013, 15:07 #35415

    Well said Matthew! Some of the responses you have received are exactly the same as those you would receive if you asked for proof of God on a theology site. They're proving your point in their attempts to contradict...

  51. James the thirst

    Jun 07, 2013, 14:52 #35414

    Its not whether you like Wenger or not its facing facts.That since 2005 Wenger has taken us backwards.2005 the last time we finished top 2.Its glossed over by the getting to the CL final a team with Lehmann Toure Campbell Cesc Gilberto Pires Bergkamp Freddie and Henry finished 4th in the league.Wenger was a great manager but after 2005 he has failed.We cant compete cry the AKB's yet Liverpool can win the CL FA Cup and league cup,the Spuds and Swansea win the league cup and Pompey and Wigan win the FA cup.We just cant compete with those clubs even though we are the 3rd richest in the world.To see the manager and players celebrate a top 4 finish at Newcastle was pathetic.But dont worry AKB's your loser on £7.5m a year is being rewarded with a new 4 year contract.So we can celebrate more 4th place finishes.By the way the best manager in Europe last year is available but we wouldnt want him would we.The name is Heynkees in case you didnt know

  52. allybear

    Jun 07, 2013, 14:24 #35410

    Have enjoyed all the comments&i think that Ron you make most sense. True he has bought some very poor players&has continued to do so.This is a blind spot on his behalf.He has hesitated once too often. Personally i feel he shouldnt be given a new contract because he has been too long at the club. However he does have an enormous amount of supporters who think he can do no wrong.

  53. Babatunde

    Jun 07, 2013, 14:20 #35409

    Look the cut off point is 2007 ok? Errr no sorry, we are in transition, give it time the Emirates will start generating revenue in 2008 right? Oh sorry did I mention 2008? I mean to say 2009! By 2009 Arsene will have been able to reverse our fortunes. This time next year, we will be millionaires! Ooops oh look it's 2010! Right ok I am a year off with my timeline, but give it until 2011 and IASSURE you, Arsene will make you eat your words! And if not in 2011 then errr...2012 is THE year. It is 'make or break' summer for Arsene now. There are NO excuse left! Oh what's this? Ok well our new sponsorship deals with Puma come in 2013 so NOW is the time to strike, it's 'make or break' now. NO excuses Arsene has the funds to compete! Hello 2014! I'll tell you what if we wait a couple of seasons, and Arsene gets a new contract...we can celebrate our TEN year anniversary of being trophyless! Perhaps we could host a concert at the concert venue Emirates Stadium, and have Coldplay in the background singing; as we parade all those outstanding Virtual 4th place trophies Arsene has won! What do you mean 4th place isn't a trophy? It IS! Didn't you see Usain Bolt parading his 4th place medal at the Olympics! I detest FACTS but here are a few irrefutable ones: Arsene Wenger is paid £7.5 mil a season. He is one of the three highest paid managers in Europe along Jose and Ancelotti. Arsenal have a 'socialist' wage bil of £150 mil - just £12 mil short of ManYoo. And yet, despite all that, Wenger has won less trophies in 8 years than McLeish, Martinez, Laudrup and McLaren! Even Juande Ramos has won more! This cannot be debated. But like I said: give Arsene 'time' and 'patience'. The rebuilding has truly begun and Arsene is changing his ways, as free transfer crock from Ligue 2 Yoyo Sanogo demonsrates!

  54. Jumpers for Goalposts

    Jun 07, 2013, 14:00 #35408

    Some of the comments on here supporting Wenger confirm exactly what Matthew said in his article! Wenger has an annual budget of £153 million - - the 4th biggest in the Premier League and he finishes 4th every year so how does that make him a miracle worker?? And how do the AKB's explain our horrendous cup record since 2005?? Domestic defeats to Burnley, Birmingham, Bradford, Blackburn and regular batterings in Europe - if Wenger was still so brilliant why can't he even guide the 4th biggest club in the World to a Cup triumph????

  55. Graham Simons

    Jun 07, 2013, 13:59 #35407

    Can someone please tell me what the hell is the point in this article? We support Arsenal mate not AKB or Wengerout - all piece does is drive the divisions further between the fans. We're all aware our manager has been hamstrung in the transfer market for nigh on a decade due to the construction costs of the stadium. How about reserving judgement and seeing what he does in the last year of his contract? Personally I don't think his contract should be renewed as this present moment of time but if he was to deliver the Champions League in his final year I'd say he's worth a new contract. If not, let's shake hands and see Wenger on his way but given the fact he hasn't been competing on a level playing field for a decade nearly and has finally got some money to spend - I say give him his final year and see how he does.

  56. Ronster

    Jun 07, 2013, 13:04 #35402

    Arsenal4Life...yeah right,a manager who has failed to land a European trophy in 24 attempts with Monaco and Arsenal and a manager who took charge of a club that has been in the top flight since 1919.Go away and educate yourself.

  57. Arsenal4Life

    Jun 07, 2013, 12:47 #35399

    Wenger is still the best manager in europe. The fact that he managed to keep our great club on a top level might be the greatest achievement in the history of the modern game!

  58. Coca-cola

    Jun 07, 2013, 12:46 #35397

    We get it, you don't like wenger...why are you boring everyone with this article?

  59. Joe Bloggs

    Jun 07, 2013, 12:37 #35396

    Oh - another Wenger In/Out Article followed by a load of angry exchanges in the comments section. That's original!

  60. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Jun 07, 2013, 12:36 #35395

    Double98: 'Wenger is worth 20 points a season to us'. I agree. Thank Goodness Steve Bould and the very few battling players we have provide the rest of the points.

  61. Noz

    Jun 07, 2013, 12:27 #35393

    If you want Arsene Wenger to stay then you clearly think Arsene Knows Best. So why take offence to AKB, surely it describes you perfectly? As a person who wants Wenger out feel free to call me an AMG (Arsene Must Go) or something similar. By getting offended you make yourself seem very defensive and help prove the tone of the article

  62. The Noise

    Jun 07, 2013, 11:55 #35389

    So, the realists get told 'F**k off down the Lane' daily by the AKB's, even though most have been supporting the club since birth, and yet they get labelled as sheep and see how they react. Ha ha! Deffo hit a nerve here Matthew! Good work! :)

  63. Wenger Must Go

    Jun 07, 2013, 11:51 #35388

    @ Double98 "As a devout AKB'er, let me say that the rust brigade have a hole ridden argument against wenger. He is operating against unlimited spending power. You either do that frugally or you spend like a drunk sailor." Swansea won the League Cup and Wigan won the FA Cup (against the richest team in England). Swansea and/or Wigan richer than Arsenal? How's that for a hole-less argument against Wenger?!!

  64. Canterbury Gooner

    Jun 07, 2013, 11:13 #35385

    Great to see all the AKBs so infuriated by being rightly called cult members (you hit a nerve...). These people have already decided that they want Wenger in charge and they will never be convinced that anything else could possibly be true. We could be relegated and they'd still say it's not his fault. Look at the players we've missed out on over the years and chosen instead. Look at the money that's still cost us and the money dished out on wages. Don't keep the faith...

  65. Jack The Gooner

    Jun 07, 2013, 10:57 #35383

    What a terrible and poorly written article. There are actually idiots out there still using 'AKB', well thank you Matthew for proving that you have no idea about Arsenal fans. I want the manager out but I'm not 10 yrs old and I don't need to revert to splitting the fan base in 2 and also use a terrible analogy to make an erroneous point. Just anything nail in the coffin of this site. Can't we have some original things to read on here??

  66. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Jun 07, 2013, 10:55 #35382

    There is no cut off point for some. They just extend a new line of credit each season, keep adjusting the 'jam tomorrow' argument accordingly. They do this because their support for Arsenal has been hollowed out and replaced by a support for Arsene. They don't see it that way, of course. They believe that swallowing the spin that comes out of the club each summer - see Gazidis quotes yesterday and today - makes them better, more loyal supporters. And those who think that after years of gradual decline (stagnation at best) it might just be worth trying a new man as manager (an employee of the club) to see if he can do any better are told to "f*ck off and support Spurs/Chelsea/Man U". It's very weird, and I don't believe it has any precedent in AFC's long history. Supporters who wanted Billy Wright or Terry Neill to go would never have been told they weren't real Arsenal supporters. That's what makes it a Cult now.

  67. Ron

    Jun 07, 2013, 10:52 #35380

    Being brutally honest i reckon all of our views, be they either supportive of Arsene or critical of him are from the heart and not the head and none of us really know, to what extent he s hamstrung by Board dictat or not. We re guessing. As to the finances, we know nothing. The reality is that most fans who are critical of him are certainly not of the view that multi millions need spending or ever did need spending. The facts are that we ve made some awful signings when better players at reasonable cost would perhaps have improved things 3-4 years back with the financial model not really being rocked off its pedestal. The players we ve missed through parsimonay are seemingly endless. Therein lies the root of his critics ire.

  68. Paul Adams

    Jun 07, 2013, 10:26 #35379

    Like those posh ladies who go to Brent Cross, Spend,Spend,Spend Arsene & make us Gooners happy,(at least for a few games next season)& then hope you are the born again Messiah!

  69. Dobromir

    Jun 07, 2013, 9:48 #35378

    Can you please stop using AKB or any other deregatory term (as you clearly intend it as deregatory) when refering to Arsenal supporters. Can they tell me this, explain that. And who are you exactly to question what and how people should feel about the club they love and it's manager.

  70. Leptuski

    Jun 07, 2013, 9:09 #35375

    If I were to say "perhaps this coming season", would that make me an AKB? I am also hungry for success and trophies to be paraded by this club again, but I likewise respect the financial model. I believe this season ought to be the 'making' season for a new dawn at the club for several reasons (big ease on loan repayment, inflow of new sponsorship deals and chiefly is the change of managerial guards at top rival clubs that needs to be capitalized upon). Wenger is not a Messiah (there is, and can only be one, as presented in the HB), but he is indeed an excellent manager that any club should be proud to have for itself (if in doubt, ask Real Madrid and PSG amongst a host of other top clubs that have been courting him even in the height of the trophy-less seasons. Capish!

  71. Double98

    Jun 07, 2013, 9:05 #35374

    As a devout AKB'er, let me say that the rust brigade have a hole ridden argument against wenger. He is operating against unlimited spending power. You either do that frugally or you spend like a drunk sailor. When arsenal register an interest in a player heir club and agent hawk him to city, utd, Chelsea or spurs. They either have deep enough pockets or reckless enough ones to out bid us. The myth is that we need 3 final products -20 million pound plus players. But that actually requires an investment in at least 6 20 million pound players. Look at each clubs top 10 purchases and tell me what percentage are successful? Realistically it's about 40%. So wenger has been managing a team that needs 120 million investment I. Players with a further 100 in wages. That's quarter of a billion, at a time when we were financially responding to the stadium move. To remain somewhat competitive without a net spend is phenomenal. No other manager in the world culld have maintained 4th while not spending and selling our best players, so now that we are at the shores of the promised land (ion terms of a direct statement of intent from gazidaz that we will be enabling wenger to compete for the league this season) you would kick him to the kerb? Wenger is worth 20 points a season too us. That's how much we wold have trailed 4th spot if we had replaced him last season. That's how better the spurs squad is than ours. Ferguson, mourihno have that but very few others in the english game. But now he has money to spend so sit back and judge him August 31st

  72. mikeB

    Jun 07, 2013, 9:00 #35373

    'we're treated like blasphemers' . . ??? Not true. It is you who describe those who disagree with you in derogatory terms. You, who coin the negative term AKBs for all those who openly support the manager. If I might further the biblical theme. . . First cast out the beam out of thine own eye. . . I'm sure you know the rest.

  73. Goonstar Hero

    Jun 07, 2013, 8:59 #35372

    He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

  74. FB

    Jun 07, 2013, 8:54 #35371

    I think you'll find that god never won us three league titles, four FA cups and achieved results that put him to the top of the all-time table of AFC managers. And regardless of what people say, god wasn't the catalyst that made possible the creation of London Colney and the stadium at Ashburton Grove. So your analogy suffers a bit there...