A tale of two Arsenals

Online Ed: Victory in Turkey



A tale of two Arsenals


Home to Villa and away to Fenerbahce. Who, on paper, could have predicted the contrast between these two matches? Having looked so porous and unfocussed on Saturday, last night’s victory was confirmation that with Arsenal, you just never know what you are going to get. And that inconsistency looked, for a short while, as if it could be eroded as the Gunners put together the run that took then to this qualifier at the conclusion of last season.

If Arsenal could play like this every week…

Even in the microcosm of the last ten days, we have seen quality performances against Manchester City and last night, sandwiching the horror of Saturday. Were Fenerbahce so poor they made Arsenal look like world beaters? They certainly allowed the visitors to control the game for all but the briefest of spells. In fairness, they did call on Szczesny to start rebuilding his reputation with a couple of excellent saves, although by that time, Arsenal had secured their key goals.

The injury that removed Laurent Koscielny from the fray meant Bacary Sagna once again switched to central defence, and his performances there have looked good enough for the idea of a long term new contract to be offered to the player. As a utility defender, he would be a big loss next summer. Arsenal certainly looked no weaker with him playing there instead of Kos.

The midfield axis of Wilshere and Ramsey looked better than it did against Villa, although they were rarely tested as they had been four days earlier. It helped that the players seemed to be more up for this match, challenging early and not allowing the Turkish side any time on the ball. The mark of many a successful European side in recent years. The question is why this kind of hunger to compete often seems lacking in domestic games, as if it is felt unnecessary.

Aaron Ramsey played exceptionally well and has unquestionably grown as a player since being given a run in the side in his natural position. It was interesting to see that the first goal was the creation of a triangle of British players – Ramsey, Walcott and Gibbs.

That came in the second half. The first had seen plenty of possession, but a lack of cutting edge. But after the interval, Walcott really started to give the Turks’ left back some problems, with two of the three goals the consequence. One thing to note was that, when I noticed the possession stats, they looked fairly similar to the Villa game. However, last night, the difference was that the Gunners finally broke through. My conclusion is that if Fenerbahce hasd offered the style of resistance that Villa did, they would have ended the game with eight men. So in that sense, Europe suits Arsenal better. They can play their football with greater protection from the referee, which will see them progress until they meet a team that is simply better at producing possession football, and get exposed.

One unfortunate message that last night sends out, which will frustrate those wishing the club to push on, is that fourth place does look good enough to secure Champions League group stage qualification (and access to the big pot of money). It has ever since the new stadium and has realistically, become the height of the club’s ambition, looking at the prudence in the transfer market. Were Arsenal eliminated at this stage, the assumption that you will get rewarded (financially) even if you do not overhaul one of the big three would be blown to pieces. As it is, expectations will continue to be managed if Arsenal start lagging behind in the league, although it will be a harder job to convince people that the club is unable to compete after the proclamations of spending power this summer, borne out by independent analysis.

The club always goes on about how marvelous the away support is. It is a shame that they would not run a trip to this tie simply because they would not make any money from it. As a consequence, of the small contingent that were in the stadium to witness this performance, less than 50 were from the UK, having had to make their own arrangements to get there at the height of the holiday season. That the club would not help out fans by running a trip is a reflection on their true feelings about the supporters. If they can’t make money from them, then they aren’t so important after all.

Back in June, Ivan Gazidis stated that the club did not need to wait until the Champions League group stage before splashing the cash in the transfer market, however, who knows if the manager felt the same. Certainly, there is a long history of money not being spent before the club are certain of their share of the CL pot of silver. Wenger will laud his players for their win last night, but they were largely the same individuals who stiffed against Villa. At least the next ten days looks a bit less intensive than they did. Focus will be required next Tuesday, but energies can be conserved to an element, with the most effort required in the matches with Fulham and Tottenham. The referees in those matches will allow a lot more foul play without any real disincentive than a continental one, and this is something the Gunners will have to learn to cope with as Villa have shown it can be a successful tactic.

However, as for Europe, Arsene Wenger has another year to brag about continuous qualification. Just a shame he cannot produce a team that will win the damned trophy.

To end on a lighter note, a classic text message received from Doktor Schneide last night…

It has just been said that Laurent Koscielny is still being stitched up in the dressing room. Give it another eight years and he’ll know what it feels like to be a Gooner…

That’s even better than Saturday’s ‘Buy no-one, get 1-3’

This season’s first issue of The Gooner (with exclusive material unavailable elsewhere) can be bought outside the stadium before the matches against Fenerbahce and Spurs. Also outside Fulham next Saturday. It can also be mailed to you if you wish to buy it online.

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46
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  1. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 23, 2013, 21:19 #38105

    Gare K, good to hear from you again where have you been? yes fener weren't up to much but we managed to do what we had to do, time will tell if these super super quality much needed signings arrive in the next few days to put us right back up there again. Though as we know wengers opinion of super super quality differs from others.

  2. Gare K

    Aug 23, 2013, 18:05 #38092

    Job done as far as I’m concerned but whether it will lead to some much needed signings is another matter. Still, full credit to Wenger and the players for a good performance and excellent result. Fenerbache though, oh dear. Up The Arsenal!

  3. Seven Kings Gooner

    Aug 23, 2013, 11:04 #38075

    I hear that the "The Dukes of Hazzard" (Gazidis & Law) went to Valencia to sign Guaita, they offered 6 million knowing that his release clause was E20 million! Another botch up from the "Duke Boys" still boss Hogg was happy as he had just brought in Flamini for a big fat zero. We urgently need a fan on the board, (who can't be bought) so we can find out just who is f*cking up mine & my dear dad's beloved club. Arsenal football club is run like a script from a Tom Sharpe novel - please someone help me!

  4. Moscow Gooner

    Aug 23, 2013, 10:15 #38074

    Really bizarre set of comments from AW: 'Now for me the transfer window is just opening', 'you can't do business over the Summer because everyone is away' and now this morning: 'you would be surprised at how early we started working in the transfer market'. Indicates the pressure he is under - and quite rightly so. He has effectively pissed away 4 months of possible transfer activity. Not many businesses where you could survive with that sort of ineptitude; obviously managing Arsenal FC is one where you can - and still earn more than any other manager on the planet. But the Flamini rumour - if true - could be a smart move; maybe the best transfer deal we've done in the last 5 years or so...

  5. take a chill pill

    Aug 23, 2013, 10:09 #38073

    Fenerbahce are poor and a club in turmoil. no sooner do we win a game than Theo comes out and says when we play like this we can beat anyone. Beam me up Scotty. boy is he in for a suprise. Flamini ? we need 2 of them. 1 in midfield and 1 as centre half i/o of the wangering german

  6. Mike

    Aug 23, 2013, 8:58 #38072

    Watch this space, let Bendtner play again - it will be like a new signing as back up for Giroud - he is after all ther best striker in the world

  7. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Aug 23, 2013, 8:33 #38071

    Well it would be desperation and not at all about admitting that OGFL was wrong, but if Flaminal is half the player he was when he left then we will have some bite in midfield and the rest of the midfielders can learn from him. Crucially, it is the return of a player who is not afraid to show Wenger the respect her deserves i.e. none. I'm afraid that I have always liked Ramsey despite the issues and I believe that he is capable of improving with at least some proper coaching.

  8. CanadaGooner

    Aug 23, 2013, 8:33 #38070

    Kev, your heading is very misleading. "a tale of two arsenals"? not at all. We've gone to turkey to beat a team acked full of ex-premier league rejects. Credit to the lads for the win, I always credit them when they win, and it's always good to see such results, and bearing in mind it's teams like that (e.g. bradford and blackburn) we usually tend to struggle against, when it matters. But that is indeed the key word "when it matter". If that was the final of the champions league against Fernerbache, we all know what the result would have been! So, it's not a tale of two arsenals, infact, it's a tale of the ARSENAL we have now come to know so well! when the going is good, it is really good. But when the going gets tough, and good teams dig in deep, what we get is Fabregas or Van Persie or Clichy telling us how the team isnt strong enough and how they have to leave arsenal to go and win trophies elsewhere. We dont have players who want to stand up and be counted!

  9. All these Poor teams

    Aug 23, 2013, 8:13 #38069

    I wonder why we bother against these poor teams. Diehards like Peter Wain and his happy crew are so right in turning these teams into nobodies. Even Bayern Munich are turned into also-ran's whenever they play Arsenal.

  10. Man United Killer

    Aug 23, 2013, 2:43 #38067

    Terry, Arsenal has some of the highest ticket prices in Europe...Fenerbache does not.Arsenal has one of the highest paid managers in Europe.Fenerbache does not.If you want to lower your expectations in the face of gross mismanagement and the blatant nose dive our club has taken,that is your cup of tea.Don't drag genuinely concerned fans into it.And oh Arsenal is supposed to be a 'bigger' club than Fenerbache so we cant have the same expectations!Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. DW Thomas

    Aug 23, 2013, 1:41 #38066

    No, it can't be? Flaming may be returning. Could have kept him back in 2008, but no why keep a solid DM when we had Denilson? Why on earth would he be coming back? Oh yeah, he'd be free! Another piece on the heaping mound of evidence pointing to the stupidity behind our transfers! You can't invent this b..locks!

  12. DW Thomas

    Aug 23, 2013, 0:33 #38065

    Sagna was class. He looks back to the once great defender he was. If Wenger does not keep him a few more years he is a hypocrite. He talks about loyalty all the time, but always sells those that would play for the shirt, not just the cash. He is still delusional and thinks this team is a competitor when we all know the truth. Fenerbache's passing was terrible. I like Ramsey for his grit and work ethic. Maybe he will come good one day and be true world class. But he is not there yet. One good game does not prove anything, either way. We keep hoping Wenger learns his lessons, but his arrogance always wins out. It seems he is having a bit of "I told you so" now. His celebrations on the sideline really are funny too. His comments about the transfer market starting now are proof that he shopping with only saving money in mind. Lost so many good players over the years to incompetence and penny pinching. Think what trophies we'd have won had say Alonso or a Mata come in. At the very least signings boost the spirits. Mine seem to only dampen now whenever he speaks.

  13. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Aug 22, 2013, 21:47 #38064

    Terry, mate, don't listen to Talksport if it annoys you that much. I used to get really het up about it but then realised that that is their whole reason for being, to get dumbasses to call in on premium rate phone lines. How many people actually get through anyway? Nowadays I listen to it for a bloody good laugh, to see what inanities they can come up with this time. Today's topic on Drivetime: how about bringing in a review system similar to the one they have for the cricket. (yeah great idea......duh) The script then probably got binned the minute the show went off air. The second you start taking that radio station seriously is the time you need to get out a bit more instead.

  14. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 22, 2013, 21:36 #38063

    Terry, i'm quite sure there's not a team in the world that hasn't got disgruntled fickle moaning fans but you'll find there's a reason and a cause, and indeed not everybody will agree on them, but in this case it's not Arsenal FC, who we all support and love and wish the best for, it's their manager, and no matter what people think there is a difference and unfortunately at this moment and time both go hand in hand.

  15. ApolloGooner

    Aug 22, 2013, 21:32 #38061

    Terry - why do you and so many of your fellow 'true fans' (as you no doubt like to see yourselves) listen to stuff on TalkSport so often if you have such contempt for it? You so obviously think it is beneath you but strangely there are regular comments on here bashing the hosts and the callers. Its almost as if you people go out of your way to look for opinions you don't share just so you can belittle them and have an excuse to spout your 'I'm a real fan' nonsense. As far as I'm concerned, if people cannot see what is happening to our club and why there is such discontent then they are either being wilfully ignorant or are on a wind up.

  16. Green Hut

    Aug 22, 2013, 20:04 #38059

    Terry- Us lowlifes support Arsenal FC, others support Arsene FC.

  17. Terry

    Aug 22, 2013, 19:02 #38056

    Those who are disgruntled about Arsenal should see how fans of an ordinary team like Fenerbahce get behind the team. Proper unspoilt partisan supporters. We must have some of the most fickle and worst fans in football for moaning about the Arsenal. Luckily we also have some of the best who although hate it when things aren't going well never stoop to the likes of some on here. I heard a couple of so Arsenal supporters on Talk Sport yesterday playing the victim's and hoping Arsenal lose just so the pressure heaps up on Wenger. What a couple of lowlifes, some of these b****** spend their whole existence kissing Adrian Durham's arse and praising Spuds and Mancs, what's all that about?

  18. LJB

    Aug 22, 2013, 18:33 #38055

    OH GOD THE LOONY IS AT IT AGAIN,with added claptrap from Arsenal.com,with their "Koz has yet to misplace a pass" yet this season.He got sent off in the first game and went off injured in the second!.Wenger is now doing the old "we make players,fans should realise what we have is better than what is outside,fans should get behind the team" nonsense.GET READY FOR NO SIGNINGS.Jesus.talk about basing everything on ONE game against a rubbish team.Well Mr Wenger when Arsenal get hammered by Fulham and Spurs,we will see how great your players are. The man should be sectioned.HEY,ARSENAL,IF WENGER DOESN'T WANT TO SPEND ANY MONEY,PUT THE PRICES DOWN!!!!!And they said we needed to move to compete.They all make me sick.

  19. Mike

    Aug 22, 2013, 17:49 #38054

    @ RJ - had exactly the same thoughts myself whilst watching hime play last night - reminded me of Ashavin

  20. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 22, 2013, 17:30 #38053

    SGRB, I agree, it would have been very interesting to see what would have happened if we'd have had a great result against the mighty villa and played well, and no injuries,to go with last nights result, would there be a last minute trolly dash? it wouldn't surprise a lot of fans if there wasn't, although there's still none yet.

  21. Green Hut

    Aug 22, 2013, 17:25 #38052

    Tony Evans- I share your weariness mate. For the good of The Arsenal, and with the one exception of Sunday week, we need to lose, lose and keep losing until Wenger announces that he will leave at the end of the season. You know it won't take much for him to bring all his guilt ridden fence-sitters back onside, which will only result in 3/4/5 more years of lies, deception, hypocrisy, vanity, petulance, transfer window lunacy and underachievement. Something bad needs to happen for meaningful, positive change to occur. I hope something bad happens on Saturday.

  22. jjetplane

    Aug 22, 2013, 17:22 #38051

    Wenger says 'the Suarez deal is an impossibility' - we all said that before someone finally pulled the chain. I know the odd mouthpiece on here will be saying I really should be supporting that lot down the road but my - are they not showing the 2 bob economist how signings are made. One thing is as plain as day. It must have been Dein who made all the notable transactions because 'the accounts first, **** the product' man has done nought on his all. I actually like Ramsay and under another manager would be a better player. Under Wenger he will end up like Nasri - arrogant and lazy. Note: Fener are already out of this competition so we could see we had a purely virtual opposition in Istanbul of all places. Even their fans knew. Wengers idea of time is beyond the quantam. Forget the 8 years - lets do it all in the next fortnight. Take him away now before like a bad bank boss he loses the club millions.

  23. Terry

    Aug 22, 2013, 17:09 #38050

    Arsenal were great last night, remember Fenerbahce beat Chelsea Man City and Man Utd in recent years. Villa like Stoke and West Ham are an anti football team who will pick up victories they don't deserve like Saturday, and they came very close at Chelsea last night.Though I can see an excellent season ahead for the gunners if we get a couple of top top players in.

  24. johnnyh

    Aug 22, 2013, 17:08 #38049

    last nights result changes nothing. fenerbache were absolutely dreadful. if they were in the premier league they would be relegated by christmas. the fact that ramsey had a good game tells you all you need to know. this result probably guarantees wengers new contract. god help us all.

  25. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Aug 22, 2013, 16:29 #38047

    peeps, all this talk of this player and that player.....take the all-seeing all-knowing WABATTD view and believe it when said player is having the obligatory shirt-wearing scarf-waving publicity pic. A club of Arsenal's stature will always be associated with lots of players.

  26. Graham Simons

    Aug 22, 2013, 16:22 #38046

    On Saturday it was Wilshere who was rubbish NOT Aaron. I like the boy - he plays wherever he is asked to and doesn't grumble. I think we need new signings but I would still retain Aaron.

  27. Bard

    Aug 22, 2013, 16:12 #38045

    It was good result and a better performance . Rambo looked more like the player he is for Wales. Cant get stressed about the transfers. Whichever way Wenger spins it, it's a total mess. Currently we seem to be trying the scattergun gun approach. If we make enough bids eventually one will come good. If we get spanked by the spuds in a week or so, Wenger will be a deadman walking.

  28. Lance

    Aug 22, 2013, 15:59 #38044

    Hooray! Suddenly everything is okay again! Seriously though, on Football365.com it says: 'Arsenal move for Benzema and Di Maria'. It should say: 'Arsenal prepare to f**k up deals for Benzema and Di Maria'.

  29. Gaz

    Aug 22, 2013, 15:41 #38043

    Decent win that relieves some of the pressure but boy were Fernebache crap! Bigger tests to come and thankfully I doubt (or maybe thats hope!) that Wenger hasn't ditched any transfer plans because of one performance. Hang on, did I say 'plan'? That means theres been some kind of stratedgy at work here when we all know thats not the case. Quite frankly its been a mess of the Clubs making and now we're being subjected to some kind of scattergun approach which sees us being linked to different players every hour! Theres a big problem looming here though whatever happens. When Wenger says 'quality' we all think Rooney, Suarez or even Higuain. Lets not forget this is the same man who deemed the likes of Park, Gervinho and Santos as quality too. What I'm saying is dont expect too much but very much expect the AKB's to say-whoever we buy-'well if Wenger likes him he just must be a quality player.....'

  30. maguiresbridge gooner

    Aug 22, 2013, 15:07 #38041

    Lets not get carried away here, (two late we're now going to win the prem and CL) as much as the result is welcome and a couple of good individual performances unlike Saturday,fener were a poor side and it showed, they offered little, and we're not exactly a good side ourselves these days as had already been proved but we managed to do what needed to be done even with the usual tippy tappy unlike Saturday but it has just papered over some very very big cracks. It might not be as easy against Ron Jeremy's side on Saturday because this team are way way short and nowhere near good enough to win anything at the minute or compete with the big boys, and as we know haven't been for a long time. So all we can do now is wait for the panic buys or the type of players that were intended all along to fill in the cracks in the hope they'll make us better, and listen to OGL tell us their super super quality.

  31. Aug 22, 2013, 14:53 #38039

    ramsey and theo played really well last night. disagree fenerbahce made life easy for arsenal.their fans backed their team well and fenerbahce tried to make life hard for arsenal.to arsenals credit they outplayed them from the start made them look poor, and you could of heard a pin drop after gibbs'goal.priceless that. fenerbahce took the other road to arsenal and signed players before the match so they could play so maybe AW does have a small point to make on waiting for players. however the problems are still there at arsenal and we can only hope that this time top players will be signed.

  32. Gavin 1998

    Aug 22, 2013, 14:38 #38038

    Its so typical Ramsey has a decent game against poor opposition and now he is the answer to our problems.When will the penny drop.Arsenal are a 4th place team at best a 6th place at worst.But we are light years behind the top 3.Sadly certain qualification to the CL group stage will keep our interest in the CL alive till at least december.And you can bet your bottom dollar that will earn Wenger a 4 year contract.Last night on paper it was a good result but in the cold light of day it will be seen as an awful result if it means Wengers stays as manager for another 4 years of failure.Wenger Out

  33. CT Gooner

    Aug 22, 2013, 14:34 #38037

    Funny, the players decided to turn up last night... I don't get this on/off culture. We need consistency, which I believe comes from a strong squad with competition for places; if you're having a bad game, off you come. I think both Ramsey and Walcott have potential, and at times have shown more, and should be squad players pushing our starters for playing time. Unfortunately we have to expect more from them as they're the best we've got. I don't understand why we don't offer Everton 45 mil for Fellani and Bains?

  34. steve

    Aug 22, 2013, 14:17 #38036

    Great game from arsenal.....Ramsey was great but so was theo...As for the so called fans posting on this who wanted our team too loose...you will never be happy no matter what... Sure we should add some player to our squad but I am afraid you can't buy happiness....

  35. Angle Grinder

    Aug 22, 2013, 14:04 #38035

    I thought we played very well last night and with plenty of urgency when we didn't have the ball. That was in stark contrast to the debacle on Saturday. Hats off to the fans who made it to the game yesterday without the assistance of the club.

  36. GoonerRon

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:43 #38034

    A really accomplished and professional performance which was desperately needed to take the heat off for a day or two. @ Fred - I think you're really harsh on Ramsey - he's not a world beater (just yet) but if you gauge his progress over the past 6 months he has pushed on to a really good all round midfielder. As for him not being a gifted passer of the ball, did you not see his role in the crucial 1st goal? A huge 11 days coming up, both on and off the pitch.

  37. Ron

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:42 #38033

    As they say, any win's a good win but Fenerbahce were utter rubbish. Lets not carried away Kev. PS Ramsey is a decent worker and a good lad, but he s squad material really. No more than that. Good to use when youre a goal up away at West Brom or Norwich on a Sunday and have a CL tie on the Tuesday to deal with. A win v that rubbish last night certainly changes nothing.

  38. RJ

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:37 #38032

    Anyone got any knowledge on what is going on with Podoloski? Why has he not started, and why was he sauntering around the putch as if he didn't care last night? Is he on his way?

  39. Wenger the tyre kicker.....aka Noodles!

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:27 #38031

    As Merson said its papering over the cracks ...in the next 10 days nothing will change and all Hell will break loose if we loose to the Spuds. However credit where credit due i thought Ramsey was superb last night...

  40. Peter Wain

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:27 #38030

    the turks were a poor side which we beat. The result whilst great for the club proves nothing. We still require a goal keeper two centre halves a left back two holding midfield players and two strikers. I cannot see that leaving it so late in the transfer window is wise or clever and why will real Madrid sells us players when they would not sells us Higuain. Personally I think we will only sign unknowns and whatever the result of this transfer window I still think Wenger should go. His management has been bad for a long time and the lack of management in this transfer window should be the last straw.

  41. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:24 #38029

    Reshaping the narrative of the summer has begun - the transfer window only starts now ... we have the quality and are only buying because of injuries ... Sagna is a great CB... Wenger trying to make it sound as if there is a plan, as if he knew what he was doing and was in control all along. Thing is, he knows there are enough fawners out there that will swallow whatever he says, no matter how out of accord with reality it is.

  42. Andy

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:03 #38028

    Dear Fred, Ramsey has been our best player, by miles - if you fail to see that, there is little hope - he is the only one that doesn't stop - every time the commentators complimented Arsenal for their high pressing, it was Ramsey doing the work - a number of key passes, most tackles, most interceptions, a goal...and you call him the weak link? Take your Jack blinkers off mate, that's the real weak link at the moment.

  43. Tony Evans

    Aug 22, 2013, 13:00 #38027

    Same old, same old for me. The disaster scenario is unfolding before our eyes: Wenger has his eyes opened by the paucity of the performance against Villa and embarks on his usual last minute reinforcement drive. Does enough to finish 4th, qualifies for the CL with a team that has absolutely no chance of winning it and then is offered a new contract at the end of yet another trophy less season. My God how much longer are we going to have to suffer this never ending ground-hog day?

  44. LJB

    Aug 22, 2013, 12:57 #38026

    Fred,you will be lynched by the AKBs!!Ramsey is now officially better than Xavi,Iniesta,Swiney etc and will be THE top midfielder in the PL and Europe within 2 yrs.And then we will flog him to United,Oh sorry scrap that bit,Cmon man,get with the programme!!!!

  45. Jeremy C

    Aug 22, 2013, 12:54 #38025

    As if to back up what Kevin has said above regarding Wenger's view of the importance of European qualification and transfers. He is quoted on Arseblog news feed as saying: “You have to understand there is still a long way to go. The transfer market starts for me now and a lot of activity will happen between now and September 2. From August 21 until September 2 you have 12 days, so a lot will happen. It starts now.”

  46. Fred Emery

    Aug 22, 2013, 12:48 #38024

    Fenerbahce were not very good. But Arsenal's performance was, but there are much harder opponents to come. Aaron Ramsey is still a problem in the midfield, he is not a gifted passer of the ball like Cesc, his positional awareness is still terrible and he provides no defensive cover (see the Aston Villa match) on Saturday. Rambo who runs 'like he's pulling a caravan'. If he stays in the heart of the midfield we will end up 6th. Get Fellani, sent Rambo to Everton in exchange, everyone's happy. Then with a couple more additions we could be title contenders.