Dispelling Arsenal’s Squad Depth Myths

Wenger has enough options to win the title



Dispelling Arsenal’s Squad Depth Myths

Pod – Ample cover for Giroud


Arsenal have started the season with 10 wins in 12 games in all competitions. Top of the league and their Champions’ League group, hopes for this season are high around the E******s. However, away from Arsenal there seems to be a lot of scepticism about the depth of the squad and its capability to challenge for trophies. Although I do agree that the squad needs strengthening, I believe it’s a case of one or two additions, rather than the masses that critics are suggesting. Here’s my assessment of the squad:

Goalkeepers: Sczezney, Fabianski, Viviano - Sczezney has impressed this season after a sluggish start against Aston Villa. Not yet as good as Mignolet, Lloris and Cech but every bit as good as Hart and De Gea on current form. In Fabianski I’d argue that only Tottenham and Chelsea have better second choice ‘keepers in Freidel and Schwarzer as he’s easily as good as/better than Lindegaard, Pantilimon and Jones. Viviano is a somewhat unknown quantity but a man with 6 Italy caps as understudy to Buffon can’t be a bad option.

Defenders: In Sagna, Jenkinson, Monreal and Gibbs Arsenal have two quality internationals for each full back position. Only Man City have similarly adequate options at full back in my opinion. Centre-back is one area I feel Arsenal need to strengthen as they only have three senior centre-backs whereas Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea all have at least four

Midfield: In the deep lying midfield roles Arsenal have Flamini, Arteta, Ramsey, Wilshere, Diaby (when fit) and Rosicky who are comfortable playing there. These players have all proven quality in this position and in terms of quantity and consistently proven Premier League class only Chelsea can match this with the likes of Lampard, Mikel, Ramires , Essien and Oscar. Man City, Man Utd and Liverpool have excellent first-choice options for these positions but their replacements haven’t recently shown that they have what it takes to be top Premier League midfielders (e.g Javi Garcia, Rodwell, Anderson, Cleverly, Henderson, Allen). In the three positions behind the striker, Arsenal have exceptional quality, quantity and versatility. The likes of Ozil, Cazorla, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Wilshere have all shown that they can perform in any of the three positions. Theo Walcott and Lukas Podolski both showed that they are highly capable as wide men last season, although both would prefer to play at centre forward - yet more versatility.

Strikers: While I believe that any additions in this position would have been useful, I think that the suggestions that Arsenal desperately need a new centre forward are exaggerated. Last season’s 17 goals and 10 assists was an impressive if not spectacular return for Giroud in his first season. His early season form suggests that he has fully adapted and is heading for 25-30 goals this season. In terms of the perceived “lack of cover” many people forget that Lukas Podolski’s favoured position is as a centre forward. Quick, strong and deadly in front of goal, Podolski’s 11 goals in 25 starts mostly from the left wing suggest that he would have no problem getting the goals up front if called upon. Behind him Theo Walcott is a viable option as his much-improved finishing skills got him 21 goals last season as the club’s top scorer. Failing that there is forgotten man Bendtner who can be a useful striker when he applies himself. He may not be a long-term solution but his 22 goals in 40 Premier League starts tells us that he could fill in if there were an injury crisis.

With the above observations in mind, here is my ideal match day squad:

Starting 11
Sczezney
Sagna/Mertesacker/Koscielny/Gibbs
Flamini/Ramsey
Walcott/Ozil/Cazorla
Giroud

Subs: Fabianski or Viviano, Vermaelen, Jenkinson or Monreal, Wilshere, Arteta, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Podolski

Of course this is purely hypothetical as it is rare for Arsenal to have everyone fit at the same time, at the time of writing Arsenal are without Cazorla, Chamberlain, Walcott, Podolski, Diaby and Sagna due to injuries. However, if you take six potential starters, all regular internationals out of any Premier League squad, it’ll look considerably weak. In my opinion this is a squad good enough to rival any in the division and that’s without quality players such as Rosicky, Diaby and Monreal. Hardly a “thin” squad and I haven’t even mentioned the promising youngster Gnabry who is currently breaking into the first team or summer signing Sanogo. If Arsenal can stay in touch with the top of the league until January, they may be just a centre-back and defensive midfielder away from winning it.


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comments

  1. BADARSE

    Oct 12, 2013, 15:42 #40502

    Rocky RIP, not for the first time have we been in a similar situation, which is me recognising a shared view/belief/hope. Nicklas Bendtner is a very young and perhaps a bit of a silly boy. No more, no less. However once you don an Arsenal shirt the responsibility escalates, and for these lads under the spotlight, it is too burdensome on occasions. He is an AFC man and gets my support. To scale those heady heights in becoming a Premier League player for Arsenal demands more than mere support, it also asks for recognition of a supreme achievement. That it all went wrong is almost a tragedy, yet not quite. He has a second chance. It would please me no end for the lad himself if he could turn it all around. My altruism is a coating for a selfish desire beneath. I want to win! So if he does well, Arsenal do well, and I do well. I am willing that part with every ounce of me. No he is not 'that bad' Rocky. He can play delightfully. His talent is there burried beneath a silly and pompous attitude. Change that and we all win. He just might you know?

  2. Rocky RIP

    Oct 12, 2013, 11:41 #40496

    @Lance - the problem isn't with Giroud per se, it's what we lack alongside him or as an alternative. We'd all love someone who could be described as 'lethal' in front of goal, spearheading the attack with devastating pace, and Giroud isn't in that category so it's unfair to expect him to be. I think you under-estimate his hold up play, his linking up with other players, his team work (he puts himself about, tackles back, etc)he's good in the air and his first touch can be excellent. Study his flick on to Podolski v Montpellier. Study his hold up play for one of the goals v Napoli. His flick to Gibbs last season away in Wales. His goal last night was excellent. He certainly isn't 'clumsy.' I don't enjoy seeing his tongue out again as he's narrowly missed another chance either, but he isn't the 'problem'. We just clearly need re-enforcements in attack. Although we do seem to be getting more from our attacking midfielders now in an attacking sense, so maybe the burden isn't all on the one striker. And yes, we are blessed with options in midfield now. Jack and Arteta could easily be rested without too much concern. PS. Does anyone else have a sneaky feeling that NB52 is going to be a love/hate figure and actually become an unlikely, preposterous hero at some point? People have written him off. He's a big-headed joker, but he's not THAT bad.

  3. o

    Oct 11, 2013, 15:16 #40467

    This is one of the silliest tunnel-vision view articles that I have ever read. Wenger himself has already said( yesterday) that he will buy new players in January. Hey,but what does he know !

  4. Spaced

    Oct 10, 2013, 12:31 #40421

    Black Hei, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

  5. Westlower

    Oct 10, 2013, 12:16 #40419

    Give most people, including so called 'expert' pundits & celebs, a blank piece of paper, a budget generated within a clubs means & a time scale of 8 years would their squad of players be superior to what AFC currently have? If the answer is yes I strongly suggest you apply for AW's job when he leaves. Thanks to Man U Killer calling me Westlover; HELLO SWEETIE xx

  6. BADARSE

    Oct 10, 2013, 11:26 #40414

    @James, I always allow myself a wry smile when people lead off with criticisms, or their way to do things. I am glaringly aware that life is a patchwork of decisions, some good, some not so. Sometimes circumstances steal in and make a poor decision a brilliant one, or vice versa. The guy with a pint in one hand and a ciggy in the other giving pronouncements make me wonder. He obviously hasn't even got his diet right, so perhaps his viewpoint is suspect too. If you find out his relationship has just crashed, or he has no dialogue with his kiddies you begin to ask searching questions. You are so right with your observations. That it becomes painful listening to diatribes from dissatisfied individuals is the price we pay. Why, when given the chance to have a direct involvement, the general public vote for a government like the one we have now, and even voted for a dog as the winning talent in Britain. You really couldn't make it up. Wise after the event, sniping from a safe distance, offering solutions and an overall panacea is easy. The bottom line is that everyone in public office, or has a high profile, comes under such close scrutiny that picking holes becomes easy. Even this medium allows us to convey our ire, where there was no avenue before. A feeling of overkill, springs to mind.

  7. Lewis

    Oct 10, 2013, 11:16 #40413

    Fabianski is one of the worst keepers in the league. A disaster waiting to happen. Article makes good points but difficult to take seriously when it compares Flappyhandski to Brad Friedel

  8. James

    Oct 10, 2013, 10:59 #40411

    Many today speak of a perfectionism that doesn't exist. People say if I was Wenger I would have done this and that and all would be well. Maybe you would! Though you may make another 100 other decisions that are wrong which Wenger has made right. It's easy being a master of events after they have taken place.

  9. BADARSE

    Oct 10, 2013, 9:57 #40404

    @Pete, your last post certainly speaks for me, chum.

  10. BADARSE

    Oct 10, 2013, 9:44 #40403

    @Black Hei, a very wise post, my friend. It speaks volumes.

  11. Pete

    Oct 10, 2013, 8:54 #40401

    Tell me Stroud, Who are you in favour of in taking over from Wenger. I for one am more than happy with how things are going. Sure it would have been nice to have picked up a trophy or two in recent years but I trust Wenger, have always liked his teams and am happy for him to stay on. I was also a big supporter of GG when he was at the club so please don't label me an AKB. In fact most so called AKB's I think you'll find will back whoever is in charge of Arsenal providing he is doing a reasonable job.

  12. CanadaGooner

    Oct 10, 2013, 8:21 #40400

    Many would say the last 8 trophyless season didnt have much to do with Arsenal's ability to score goals. And in fact, so bold folks would say Wenger's 17 years as a whole has never been about us not scoring enough goals. It's always been more about the way we seem to assume that letting in soft goals (and I'm sure we all remember the Allardyce era at Bolton, and the Rory Delap era - where all we did was moan about the physicality and long throws, and while other clubs did something about it, Wenger just buried his head in the sand). I see enough goals coming out of Podolski, Walcott and I'm sure Ramsey will carry on chipping in (perhaps not as spectacularly as he started the season, but that's fine); we have to wait and see if goalkeeping and defense are areas that will let us down yet again this season. With Arteta back and Flamini doing his thing, we should be able to shore-off the defensive midfield area. Let's see what happens after we lose our first game (i.e. following the current streak) and how/if the players can react like they want to be champions.

  13. BADARSE

    Oct 10, 2013, 8:08 #40399

    @John Gooner, sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday buddy. Of course I understood the post, and my reply was friendly. These posts can lose their warmth as a straight reply, as have often pointed out in a pub together a reply delivered with a smile or chuckle displays no venom. I hope we do continue to compete, though we are at the moment, as I said. We all want AFC to do well. These posts run away from us sometimes, though be aware as my post suggested I am a pro Arsene Wenger Gooner, and usually, if I can be bothered will defend any criticisms I think necessary. Pro Arsene Wenger, not an Arsene Wenger man, there is a subtle difference there.

  14. Black Hei

    Oct 10, 2013, 6:37 #40398

    I think it is natural to criticise Wenger as he himself has set the standard of expectations pretty high. But I think the main thrust of many arguments here are simply because certain individuals disagree with Wenger's decisions. Wenger is wrong to set the team up this way. Wenger shouldn't buy this guy. Wenger is dithering on the transfer market. It almost seems as we are saying "If I were in Wenger shoes, we wouldn't have made all these mistakes." That 1 point would have been 3 and Higuain will be playing for us and we will be having 21 not 16 points, IF I was allowed to make the decisions, instead of Wenger. The internet and education has empowered individuals to now have the ability to say this. It is something you do not see in the past. Who would have dared question a manager of such acclaim? Double winner, Invincibles and all. But you look at the criticism that is laid out by bloggers and netizens and it all looks reasoned, well thought out and logical. Does this make Wenger illogical? Yes in some ways. Why play Ramsey on the wing? Djourou and Cygan are fullbacks? And many other questions. Does this make them/us right? Truth is we do not know. We do not know the inner workings of the club. We are not the ones that work with the players. Some like Myles Palmer declare that he is right since he has the inner workings of the club. I don't buy that. End of the day, only the coaching/management staff at the club knows how valid the criticism are. One more thing is that many of the AKB crowd defend Wenger not so much on how successful he is. Wenger is a builder. He believes in working hard and right for success. He does not take short cuts and any form of success is organic. This romanticism is a contrast to the $$-bags FCs you see today. Where success is rooted in getting an arab/russian sugar daddy. So when you criticise Wenger for 8-years no trophy, there will always be part of the crowd that will defend him. They might layout all kind of logical reasons as well, but the root of it all is a kinship with Wenger. They see him as one of their own, someone who works as exposed to someone who is ultra rich simply because of being born at the right place and right time. Is that the right approach? Let's not forget football is not ultimately about winning. Football is about entertainment. You are supposed to enjoy it. Enjoyment comes with winning, but not just from that source.

  15. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 22:59 #40397

    10 wins in 12 in all comps, great form, top of the pile in the prem and cl, plenty of money to spend and some of it already has very very well, still plenty more left to spend to make us better, moral high all round, the best chance to win something this season in a long long while, the players have a part to play as well but it's the managers responsibility nobody elses, but the excuses for OGL have started already (the poor laundry lady) there's no more excuses left, that well has run dry. There's no more time to get it right, the time has come to deliver or ship out.

  16. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 21:50 #40396

    For the record, as I'm being misunderstood, the 'Wenger go or stay' debate is hold for me at the moment. The team is doing well, his contract is up in 7 months anyway, so as things stand it's pointless. I was trying to make a broader point about responsibility, and there being factors beyond a manager's control not meaning he shouldn't be held to account. As far as Wenger in particular is concerned, I believe that debate - and his contract - should be stuff for the end of the season now. Pete, I'm still waiting for you to take on an actual point I've made rather than make childish remarks. I'm starting to think you're actually incapable.

  17. John Gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 21:43 #40395

    BADARSE, this has all become a bit twisted. I said win OR compete, I appreciate there are many factors that will affect whether a team wins anything, but a title winning team - as this article suggests we have - with a manager who is fit for purpose, over 38 games, should at least compete (seriously challenge for the title). If this simple idea can't be grasped then we really have lost the plot! The early signs are good, so hopefully we will have an exciting season of COMPETING for real silverware.

  18. Pete

    Oct 09, 2013, 20:53 #40394

    Stroud, I'm sorry but there just aren't enough 'Wenger must hang' folk willing to back your agenda at the moment. Best you make yourself a nice cup of warm milk,get your Piers Teddy and toddle of to bye bye's.

  19. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2013, 20:34 #40393

    @Stroud.G.R.B. I know how Chinese Whispers work. We discuss the article, suggesting a point of view, we virtually have a full squad. A post suggests it means Arsene should win the league if his interpretation is correct. I point out it isn't, all gentle fun and banter. A response says I am not recognising the casual remark I received, I did and give a reply. You come in saying it isn't really determined by chance, though conceding there are many variables, then you switch horses and make it an Arsene Wenger debate of the old hackneyed, 'Go or stay'. I hear an oink!

  20. CT Gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 20:04 #40392

    Sorry Stroud, we seem to have left you out numbered by all the "true" Arsene(al) fans. I agree with Kalum's original premise, of us really only needing 3 good players to significantly improve the squad. Unfortunately, rather than debate the players/positions, it's turned into a Wenger is god discussion. My feeling is Jenkinson is not good enough, he really is a step down in quality from Sagna. An additional CB would be very helpful, perhaps a young talented player is an option, allowing some one time to develop. Midfield is stacked, though I wouldn't be against another wide player coming in. Jacks done well the last couple of weeks, but it's not his natural position. And finally a second striker, to keep Giroud on his toes. As for the Wenger debate, can we at least get through Christmas before knighting him or executing him!? If we remain competitive and growing as a team, great, give him a new deal. If it turns into groundhog day, offer Dennis the job!

  21. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 19:30 #40391

    Badarse, afraid what you're doing there is pushing your opponent's argument to the extreme (even including non-footballing examples) to make it seem ridiculous. It's an old ploy. Yes, there are many variables which influence outcome. But what's the logical conclusion from this, then? No manager should ever leave, as it cannot, it logically follows, be all his fault. You have to draw a line somewhere. We can debate where it is drawn, but not whether it should be drawn at all.

  22. billthered

    Oct 09, 2013, 19:29 #40390

    Heads are up at the moment it will start to look dodgy if we lose a couple of games.Remember last season we beat the European champions on their own patch and we saw what they did to citeh.Also at the minute we have our fair share of injuries and we seem to be able to cope because we seem to be playing with a bit more belief and Ozil and Flamini should take the credit for that as one adds that extra bit of magic and the other the steel required in the engine room as his bookings will testify you really need that in there.I am looking forward to seeing more of Gnabry as I think he can be a real talent but as I have said many times we Must strengthen in January with proven quality with proper money.

  23. Man United Killer

    Oct 09, 2013, 19:25 #40389

    James, I think you are getting ahead of yourself in your last post (Post No. 43245).We are yet to play any of the genuine contenders and are one injury away from a striker crisis.Even with our complete striking options, we have no striker in the 30 goals a season mould. As Westlover said the "Liverpol (H) Nov 2nd; Borussia Dortmund (A) Nov 6th; Man U (A) Nov 10th" will give us a better idea where we stand.We have players who do not show up against big opposition and that has to change also.As far as Europe is concerned, I would see how we make it through the group and knock out stages.With the current crop of players, Quarter finals will be the fartheset we can go.We are at least 3 more world class signings away from the team you make us up to be.Of course we have a chance to win a domestic cup as long as the wheels dont come falling off against relegation-bound teams in the cup finals like they always do. Finally, to win anything our manager needs to stop consistently playing players out of position.

  24. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2013, 19:06 #40388

    There are so many aspects which influence an outcome. A motivated team takes it's foot off the pedal, as with Manchester U, allowing the Oilers to steal it. The manager screwing up big time by allowing the butcher Shawcross to destroy Ramsey, and Dudu didn't get protection, when he nearly lost his leg. Gallas' meltdown, Bergkamp's penalty miss in the last minute of the S/F. Arsene just fails in his responsibility time after time. I think he was the greatest single thing to happen to English football, and he did it at the Arsenal, too. Time's change. Things move on, evolution demands different degrees of comprehension. All this has to be learnt whilst keeping all the balls in the air. Not easy guys! Then a dereliction of duty by the board/owners, allowing his main man Dein to leave. Fine, but no replacement? Outrageous! Petro-dollars flooding the market, moving stadium, key men upping and leaving. World financial crisis, housing market collapse. He has a lot to answer for. Still the beat goes on. Is he perfect? I would say a long way from it. Yet still amongst the best there is, and the continuity of him remaining is a powerful plus. Yet he is aging now, and time is passing. When he goes I shall be saddened, for our own mortality moves a step closer. If we win something he did it, if we don't it's his fault? Perhaps it may prove to be, but to state that as an axiom here and now is beyond simplistic, it's facile.

  25. Vradar

    Oct 09, 2013, 17:12 #40387

    At the very least we need another striker and defensive midfielder, we might have options if Flamini got injured but those players are much better suited going forward and are not really good enough in that role for title winning side. Up front if Giroud gets injured we have to rely on the useless Bendtner or an unproven youngster since Wenger prefers to play Podolski and Walcott on the wings instead of upfront. We could also use more wide players since we only have 1 that plays there as his preferred position instead of sticking our central midfielders/strikers out of position. Also I wouldn't even bother mentioning Diaby in our squad since hes never actually fit for more than two games a season.. Still this is our best chance to win the league with the changes at other clubs and with a little luck we will still be in the hunt come January and with the right signings we could do it.

  26. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 16:59 #40386

    Jack, I can't see that anything I've said today is particularly 'anti-Wenger', e.g. I didn't bring up the coaching issues that Ron has correctly highlighted, it's been more general points about the responsibility of the manager - any manager - for on field performance. Certainly I can see why people get het up about that though - they don't want this particular manager held to account. As John the Gooner indicates, you're arguing because it's you that doesn't 'get it'.

  27. James

    Oct 09, 2013, 16:47 #40385

    This squad is more than capable of winning the league and has shown by it's results from January. I would say we have far more than is required in midfield and in goal, and are just about right in defence and attack. I also feel we are the best equipped of the four English teams of sustaining a good run in Europe's elite competition. Quarter final at least, semi probable, final possible. I would also say we have a good 50/50 chance of winning one of the domestic cups. Why not what's stopping us, we're The Arsenal.

  28. John Gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 16:41 #40384

    @ Jack, "The manager will always be culpable for the results of the team" - So why are you arguing? Which results do you think we care about? If you're saying that Wengers poor performance over the last 8 years is not his fault because the board didn't put enough pressure on him, then that has to be some of the most ridiculous apologetic logic I have ever heard. If you're saying that Wenger is culpable for the poor performance of the team over the last 8 years, but the board are equally culpable for leaving him to it, then I agree with you completely. Either way, if the current performance levels continue until the end of the season, there can be no questioning his or the boards performance this year - Let's hope this is the dawn of the new Arsenal.

  29. Green Hut

    Oct 09, 2013, 16:40 #40383

    Jack the Gooner- The board haven't applied any more pressure on Wenger because bar the odd very rare occasion the fans have seemed perfectly happy with what has been happening over the last 8 years. Sometimes you get the club you deserve.

  30. Jack the Gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 16:24 #40382

    The buck does not just stop with the manager Stroud, it stops with the board and the owners who should be ultimately responsible for the club. The manager will always be culpable for the results of the team, and but after that the board are responsible for evaluating the managers performance. You can trot out your anti wenger views all you want, there is no getting away from 8 years without a trophy but it is not his fault that the board have not applied any pressure on him. Your argument is way to simplistic but looking at your comments I can see that you dont really get it

  31. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 16:08 #40381

    I don't know about the calling for masses to be added, from Arsenal fans anyway, but to be cleared out? that was certainly the case. As for added three maybe four at the most, but real top top quality this time not more of the same and a fantastic start was made with Ozil, and Flamini, although not quite in the same bracket as Ozil, never the less and no matter what way it came about and as it has proved another first class signing. Yes just another two to go now of real top top quality to add to what we already have provided they're played in their proper positions and we can keep every body fit (unlikely to both) we can push for a pot this season. I wouldn't exactly call Diaby a quality player at the moment he's going to have to prove it first, but if Ogl says he is he must be, do any of us know what he still looks like? As for bendtner useful? Yes for pulling carts.

  32. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 15:58 #40380

    Besides which, Spaced, I'm not sure you've understood the point that was being made. There was no attempt to make a 'comparison'. John Gooner made the point that if the squad and manager are capable, then the squad will compete. Nothing about it being done in a particular way with a particular set of players. And 'the buck stops with the manager' is a football truism. You can always find excuses for any manager - after all, they're not the ones out on the pitch. But he's the man that has to take ultimate responsibility for performance.

  33. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 15:34 #40379

    @ Spaced, By your rationale, your comparison is also too simplistic. None of the other managers would have composed squads of that nature in the first place. Who knows, they may have done better than just top 4...

  34. Kalum Alleyne

    Oct 09, 2013, 15:16 #40378

    @ Benny 2 I regard Ivanovic as a centre back who is equally adept at right back as I remember when he came to England he was billed as "Vidic's Serbia centre back partner" or something like that. He also played there for much of last season @ Beaugey it's called "Dispelling Arsenal's Squad Myths" because I intended to dispel the myth that Arsenal need 4,5,6 players as has been claimed by the media. I stated that in the intro

  35. Spaced

    Oct 09, 2013, 15:04 #40377

    John G and SGRB, that's too simple a viewpoint. A squad is built up by a manager for a particular style of football... Your comparison only works if all managers have the same squad of players. I'd argue that with the recent squads, none of the other top managers would have achieved a top four finish (with the exception of Ferguson). With our current squad I'd rather have Wenger at the helm than any alternatives.

  36. Man United Killer

    Oct 09, 2013, 14:51 #40376

    No disrespect but what are you smoking? I want some!

  37. Ron

    Oct 09, 2013, 14:47 #40375

    Benny2 makes a good point. What he doesnt mention is that Ivanovitch as a stand in CB is probably as good if not better than each our mainstream recognised first choice CBs. He cost 9 Mill ie not much more than Wenger paid for Squillacci. You can form your own conclusions on Mr Wengers eye for a CB on that stat.

  38. Beaugey

    Oct 09, 2013, 14:44 #40374

    This article is called 'Dispelling Arsenal's Squad Depth Myths', then, in the first paragraph, the author states that the squad needs strengthening, therefore it is not deep enough, therefore the words 'dispelling' and 'myths' are not needed in the title. If it was called 'Arsenal's Squad Depth', however, this would be misleading because, I already stated, there is a lack of depth in the squad. Therefore, it should simply be titled 'Arsenal's Squad'. Also, I like the bit about Bendtner being useful 'when he applies himself' and the bit about Diaby being an option 'when fit'. Classic.

  39. John Gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 14:22 #40373

    @ BADARSE, I know I was taking a simplistic view, which probably deserved a simplistic response, but that is taking it too far. You're an intelligent guy, so you know just as well as anyone else that it's where you end up that counts. If we end up 1st or very close, Wenger deserves plenty of the credit, but as SGRB indicates, failure also rests with him.

  40. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2013, 14:10 #40372

    @John Gooner, at the moment we are competing, have a look at the table.

  41. John Gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 14:06 #40371

    If you have a squad that's capable of winning the league, it follows that all that remains is good management. Injuries, while unlucky are also a function of bad management - buying injury prone players, rewarding injury prone players with long contracts, over using players while allowing others to rot on the bench. What other factors were you thinking of? Refereeing decisions? If you have a squad and manager capable of winning then you will at the very least compete. This article states that we have the squad, so what remains?

  42. Benny2

    Oct 09, 2013, 14:01 #40370

    Chelsea only have 3 centre backs, four if you include Ivanovic. His main position is right back, but just like Sagna, he can play in the centre.

  43. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 13:51 #40369

    @Badarse, over the course of a 9 month season, I'd say it's who has the best squad, rather than happenstance, which most affects the outcome. The old football adage is 'the buck stops with the manager'. Surely we all must have our cut off point somewhere. Success: 'It's all down to Wenger'; Fail: 'It's not Wenger's fault' cannot continue this season.

  44. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2013, 13:35 #40368

    @ John Gooner, that's not what this article is saying. It is saying we have close to a full complement. Whether you win, come fourth, or wherever, it's determined by many aspects, so the fault could be laid at his door, or a combination of reasons, could put the blame elsewhere. Some will want to put the blame where they see fit. It is often happenstance, which affects the outcome, given teams start with a full squad.

  45. John Gooner

    Oct 09, 2013, 13:22 #40366

    So this article is saying that if we don't win (or even compete for) the league this year it will be Wenger's fault as he has all of the players necessary?

  46. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 13:11 #40365

    Is that the best you can do, Pete, or are you going to have another go, this time addressing the points I made? I'm waiting...

  47. Pete

    Oct 09, 2013, 12:55 #40364

    Stroud,Go cuddle your Piers Morgan teddy.

  48. Tony Evans

    Oct 09, 2013, 12:46 #40363

    Ron - you are so right. Some players can be versatile but not to the extent that Wenger thinks. Total football is a myth really (although that Ajax side in the early 70s came close) and for me a defensive midfielder is a defensive midfielder, ditto winger, centre forward, centre half and virtually every other position on the pitch.

  49. Spaced

    Oct 09, 2013, 12:18 #40361

    Kallum, I hope you meant 'better than average' teams rather than 'better than us'! - - I agree with the sentiment of your article, I don't believe that we have a thin squad either but is is sufficient quality? I hope so. I am desperately looking forward to Walcott, Cazorla and Podolski returning and how they will slot into this adapted team. Finally, I still find it hard to believe that people dislike Giroud, are you all referring to the same bloke I am? Y'know, the one that has a great first touch, wins everything in the air, has good movement & vision, sets up goals and scores plenty...?

  50. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 12:11 #40360

    "It's not just strikers who score goals Arsenal were the only team last year with four players hitting double figures in the league." And that team scrambled 4th. So if we're aiming a bit higher this year augmenting the squad with a top class striker seems a reasonable suggestion. Ignoring our weaknesses is the sign of a Wenger muppet.

  51. James

    Oct 09, 2013, 12:03 #40359

    It's not just strikers who score goals Arsenal were the only team last year with four players hitting double figures in the league. Plus we've already had seven different scorers in seven league games again a record. Stop being such a media muppet and look at our strengths.

  52. Kalum Alleyne

    Oct 09, 2013, 11:26 #40358

    Hi guys, I appreciate all the feed back. Regarding strikers, my idea was that playing Walcott or Podolski up front would be more suited to a faster counter attacking style of play. Which seems to be our new gameplan against better teams (As we've seen against Sp*rs, Swansea and Napoli)

  53. Stroud Green Road Boy

    Oct 09, 2013, 11:20 #40357

    James, rather than being 'anti-Wenger' I would say fears about squad depth stem from historical precedence, i.e. seeing the squad run out of legs so many times in recent seasons. People look at the current squad and fear it could happen again.

  54. Dan h

    Oct 09, 2013, 11:19 #40356

    Certainly a striker & cb short Ba would have been a more than decent option off the bench.We enquired for him actually last Jan before Chelsea got him I posted that at the time.Mourinho pulled the plug on the loan deal at the end of the last window no surprises there.The January window notoriously hard to do deals with other PL clubs forget Suarez no chance he goes to another PL team let alone in January.The markets to look at Spain financial reasons & thankfully OGL is looking to Germany.You will get what you pay for there but a abundance of talent so many young quality players in their National team & U21 squad.

  55. BADARSE

    Oct 09, 2013, 10:56 #40355

    Thank you Kalum. When talking of squad size I am a glass half full type. It would be ideal if Verminator was restored to his original self, instead of the clone we have now at the Grove, but that may yet happen. With Sagna deputising we have adequate cover. I would be happier with a better back up, proven keeper, but generally you can wing it in this position. Giroud I really rate. He is still learning his trade and shall improve. He has weaknesses and strengths to his game. His weaknesses can be overcome with a fast compliment behind him, then he is very dangerous. My one plaintive cry is for a real wide man, but I guess we just wait for one to come along as I don't see any intention of swapping a current player for one, should he become available. I am also unsure that we will buy in January. This is a notoriously difficult time to purchase, and have a feeling we shan't. radfordkennedy and Chris dee,in different ways, say it all.

  56. Ron

    Oct 09, 2013, 10:47 #40354

    Apart from lacking a natural goalscorer to benefit from and supplement Girouds graft the sqaud could do better. Its coaching thats lacking. Full backs who are detached from the central defenders and who neglect defending are always a liability. Theres no 'unit'thus the keeper will always face being exposed from the flanks and often is, but tbh none of the central defenders are top quality either. Numbers in the sqaud are impressive when theyre all fit, but even then there is a massive glut of 'midfield' players who are almost indistinguisahble from each other in abilty and type and who are ALL asked frequently to do 'fill in'jobs with different tasks often being asked to play as orthodox wide players when they lack the skills to do it. Flamini coming back has at least removed one task i.e the 'water carriers' job, which none of the others have the attributes to do but all who have been asked to try in recent years. Wenger has always had a notion of total football aka Ajax of the 1970s but hasnt had/doesnt have the players to do it. Top quality (as Ajax had) is needed all over the pitch to do that and its also supplemented by muscle too. Too many jacks of all trades and masters of none of them in Wengers sqauds. Its not the amaount of players he lacks, its the specialisms and naive coaching thats the trouble.

  57. lance

    Oct 09, 2013, 10:14 #40351

    radfordkennedy..thanks for your reply it makes a lot of sense.i suppose when we have walcott and podolski back we should see more of the giroud effect (fingers crossed).i am really excited about the podolski return as he is one of the best finishes in the league. and with the creativity of cazorla and ozil it could be amamzing. i was also frustrated that wenger did not bring on gnabry. but jenks did look shaky and i thing wenger played it safe with arteta and flamini.

  58. chris dee

    Oct 09, 2013, 10:12 #40350

    We've had good squads for the last eight years. But after pretending to be Barcelona for a few years the penny finally dropped after the 2-1 defeat at Spurs last season. Doing mundane things like not leaving yourselves open to counter attacks,a semblance of defensive organisation,a bit of obduracy and determination and a realisation that there will be periods in the game that you have to defend with your lives. But ,and it's a massive but ,you have to carry these thing into the whole season to win trophies. Arsene should have known this because when we were winning trophies we defended as well as we attacked. But at the moment let's enjoy what we have

  59. James

    Oct 09, 2013, 10:03 #40349

    I would put only Cech ahead of Scezney, Lloris and Mignolet are mistakes waiting to happen and Freidel is worse than Fabianski imho did you see his cock ups in Europa last year.(too many pies syndrome).Having too many excellent center backs is virtually impossible as who is prepared to sit on the bench for three quarters of season when they can be playing regular elsewhere three is a good number especially when you have versatile players who can come in. People in general mainly the anti Wenger seem to get too caught up in this must always buy this and that player, not realising that too many players leads to discontent for those not playing. A good well thought out article though.

  60. Dark Hei

    Oct 09, 2013, 10:01 #40348

    Agree with the general concept of squad depth. We are more than decent. Can't agree that either Poldi or Walcott are capable deputies for Giroud. Maybe as a stop gap against struggling sides but not against a top side. Both of them do not have the hold up ability of Giroud who can make space for the midfielders. Being a striker is not just about having a great half volley or a controlled finish, which Giroud admittedly lacks.

  61. underacheiver

    Oct 09, 2013, 10:01 #40347

    Off topic, I'd just like to say it warmed the cockles of my heart to read that Dennis Bergkamp (aka God) wants to come back to The Arsenal in a coaching role. He doesn't want to be manager, but that could change as he gains experience. Can't happen soon enough for me.

  62. radfordkennedy

    Oct 09, 2013, 9:57 #40346

    Lance...I understand your views on Giroud he isnt the greatest finisher ive ever seen,however it would seem that the old days of hunting in pairs such as my monicker or Stapleton/Sunderland etc has become old hat and Arsenal and others favour the One up top with an attacking five behind.And in my opinion if thats the way forward for Arsenal then Giroud fits the bill,theres not a header he dont win and he does bring others into play very well with his back to goal,but this tactic will fall down if theres no pace behind him to latch on to the flick ons and knock downs as was in my opinion the case on sunday,i know others on here stated they felt the selection and tactics were right but i just could not fathom out why after it became apparent that the talented coach Steve Clarke played two banks of four so close together that when we got the ball anywhere near their area you could have thrown a blanket over 6 of their players and that they held that position to within 10 yards of the half way line that it did not trigger a re-think from AW and SB and use rosicky or gnabry instead to use their pace and get in behind quickly when we regained possesion,neither Jack or Aaron can play a wide roll as their not quick enough.I have my suspicions that AW does not entirely trust jenks and went for the belt and braces selection of Arteta and Flamini which will always slow the play down as Arteta tends to play safe with the first pass on the break,and coming back to what you say about Giroud he does need to feed of wingers and ball coming to him at pace that what hes good at,diving in at the near post or a first time shot,he will always be a 1 in 5 ratio striker but he can certaimly improve that if the selection behind him concentrate on what he can do rather than what he cant..its just my opinion

  63. Bard

    Oct 09, 2013, 9:50 #40345

    Its an ok squad the question is it good enough to win the prem or the CL and currently my view is no. Factor on the fact that half the players you mention are out with long term injuries then it looks decidedly thin. Goalscorers win trophies and we don't have one. Giroud is ok but not good enough. I agree we don't need loads players but he needs three , right back, centre half and a striker

  64. Emeka Kenneth

    Oct 09, 2013, 9:12 #40344

    Excellent piece you have there albeit doubting Thomases will have their say. I don't know why some pundits keep saying that Arsenal is short of squad to win titles. I agree that there's room for improvement like having Suarez kinda striker. But which EPL title contenders will turn down the chance of having Suarez playing for them?

  65. biodun

    Oct 09, 2013, 9:07 #40343

    This is one of the best articles I have read in a while. It debunks the media-fabricated 'squad is too thin' theory, which is a deliberate plan to reduce the self-belief of the Arsenal squad. Though we need strenghtening like 99% of the teams in world football, we can win the league as presently constituted. If we don't believe that, then the addition of even Messi and Ronaldo in January can't get us the trophy.

  66. Westlower

    Oct 09, 2013, 9:03 #40341

    Liverpol (H) Nov 2nd; Borussia Dortmund (A) Nov 6th; Man U (A) Nov 10th. These fixtures will tell us if and who we need to buy in January. Come through these games unscathed and we can really start to dream.

  67. lance peters

    Oct 09, 2013, 8:58 #40340

    my problem with the side is with giroud. his good touches and hold up play is not consistent. he looks very clumsy most of the time. notice how often you see him give that look of despair. he seems to only score when the ball is played into the 6 yard box with pace. in my opinion we need a good all round striker someone who knows where the net is even when his back his facing. giroud misses good opportunities which cost us. most recently against west brom. ozil lifted the ball over the defence and with time and space ho chose to volley towards the corner flag. jacks through ball , although the keeper did well an above than average striker would have found the back of the net. the composure is not there. would like to hear your opinions of Giroud...