Just Like Old Times

Online Ed: Arsenal bury Norwich



Just Like Old Times


Okay, first up a special offer marking yesterday’s game. You can buy the current issue (with exclusive material unavailable elsewhere) by post ‘Four-One’ pound rather than the standard £2.50. Ok, there is a little postage on top, but you’d be charged this anyway and you’re still getting the issue a damned sight cheaper than normal. The offer runs until the end of today (Sunday). Details here.

And so to yesterday’s game, which put Arsenal two points clear at the top of the league after Liverpool drew at Newcastle. The Gunners continued with the habit of taking maximum points from matches where they should be expected to show their superiority. About once every season, I repeat the words of Tony Adams that if you can beat the bottom ten teams home and away you will win the league – because that is sixty points in the bag. So apologies for the repetition, but it is such a fundamental truth. And dropping cheap points certainly hurts. If a team avoids it, they can actually afford some disappointment in the games against their main rivals. The next league fixture is Palace away which Wenger’s team will go into full of confidence after today. It would be a major shock if they failed to win.

As for Norwich, they have made life difficult in recent seasons for Arsenal. And they had a spell either side of half-time when they certainly asked some questions, but failed to take the opportunity to equalise. It was a spell the home side weathered, but a bit of me wondered if the loss of Flamini due to injury affected the Gunners. Dare I say he has become integral? Szczesny had to pull off some decent saves to continue the good form he has shown in recent weeks. Fortunately Mesut Ozil scored with a guided header to put two goals between the sides before the Canaries finally found the net.

As for the goals, what can be said except that they were up there with the best football seen in Wenger’s years. It was ironic that Robert Pires was the subject of the half-time on pitch interview. Ozil makes such a difference to the play with his quality of touch, but it is becoming infectious, with the one-touch football of the opening goal between Giroud and Wilshere looking like it had been fashioned at the Nou Camp. The re-introduction of Cazorla to the starting line-up added extra threat, although he was withdrawn relatively early with Tuesday’s Champions League game in mind. That, incidentally, should be an absolute cracker.

Ozil’s header to make it 2-0 showed why Germany were able to play him as the front man in their World Cup qualifier against the Republic. He is an intelligent footballer able to adapt. He’s done no harm at all to the forward line’s fluidity and is very difficult to mark as a consequence. Aaron Ramsey is the standout player of the season, in the Premier League as well as at Arsenal and some of his attacking play after replacing Flamini was evidence of the importance of confidence to a player. A year ago he was passing to the opposition and couldn’t hit the target for love nor money, but after being started in his correct position for a decent run of games, he has reminded us of the qualities that made him an expensive teenage signing. Goals from midfield are key to a title challenge, and the Welshman is delivering in spades. His dribble to make it 3-1 marked the end of Norwich’s resistance. There was still time for he and Ozil to combine for an excellent fourth which reminded us of the excellence of the number 11’s first touch.

Certainly, something’s changed at the club. My critics often deride me for not giving the manager any credit, but a few things have happened that demonstrate he has dropped the stubborn approach that held Arsenal back in its first few years at the new stadium, so credit to him for the changes. I would summarize these, in no particular order, as…
1. The players having a different attitude when they are not in possession of the ball.
2. Wenger’s willingness to field a midfield player more intent on stopping the opposition than doing anything creative.
3. The addition of a world class player and the willingness to spend the market rate to acquire him.
4. The realisation that the blend of youth and experience was not right and that more experience was needed to bring the best out of the youth.
5. Not being afraid to drop favourites when form demanded it.
6. Acknowledging the importance of results over the style of football when circumstances dictated.
7. Less complacency when facing supposedly weaker teams at home.
8. The shedding of individuals more interested in picking up their pay packet than points, creating a more focussed group of players.

As a consequence, Arsenal have improved as a unit capable of winning or at the very least not losing matches. The Napoli game demonstrated they have the potential to move up the gears when faced with superior opposition, and with matches against Borussia Dortmund (twice), Liverpool and Manchester United before the next international break, fans will get the opportunity to see if this can be continued. And of course, Arsenal will suffer defeat at some point. They bounced back after the pain of the loss to Villa, and one hopes that the historical psychological damage past defeats have had on Wenger teams that have been on a good run is now a thing of memory.

Hell, even Nicklas Bendtner is starting to look like a decent striker when he gets some minutes on the pitch.

Good times to be a Gooner. Naturally, it is too early to start thinking of silverware, but this is a hugely enjoyable period and the feelgood factor in the stadium is a pleasure to experience. This observer is really looking forward to a cracking game on Tuesday night against a top team managed by a man who has effectively done what Arsene Wenger could not manage in recent years – build a team on the cheap and triumph over a richer rival. In mitigation, Jurgen Klopp only had Bayern Munich to see off. Arsenal had two obstacles to glory, and then Manchester City came along. Still, if Arsene Wenger did fancy the mooted PSG overtures next summer, I could think of worse successors than the Dortmund manager.

The current issue of The Gooner (with exclusive material unavailable elsewhere) will be on sale as you approach the stadium for Tuesday evening’s game against Dortmund. It can also be posted to you should you wish to buy it online here.

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101
comments

  1. jeff wright

    Oct 23, 2013, 13:13 #40788

    I said on here after the hysterical euphoria over the 3-1 win against Norwich that better sides would prove harder to score those sort of goals against - and that they would also take better advantage of our mistakes. Last night proved these points. It's not by chance that Wenger has never won anything in Europe either, it's because he's too tactically naive - even when he had the best team ever seen in England he couldn't win anything in Europe . Ironically he came closest when he was forced by circumstanced to play a more pragmatic game in that unbeaten run to the final in Paris - he had Flim-flam ( he's suddenly assumed Vieira type status in some peoples view) at left back in a cobbled together defence . It's not by chance either that Wenger's last trophy win in the FAC final 2005 was achieved by dropping his gung-ho tactics and defending in depth instead - with a penalty shoot-out winning him the cup. At the end of this season - if he's still not won anything - not even a little trophy - then he should get on his bike with his 60m fortune safe in the bank and peddle off into a setting sun while whistling La Marseillaise.

  2. Ron

    Oct 23, 2013, 12:28 #40777

    Westlower - Morning pal. No. Not at all. I said pre game that two draws with BD in the group and concentrate on the other games was the better approach. For me, that performance tactically last night showed exactly why Wengers a very poor Coach when it comes to European football, a view ive held for years. This puts aside the realty that he and that team havent a cats chance of winning the CL yet still he hankers for it and puts all of his eggs in that basket. Madness. They could get through the group i suppose, but its a tall order now due to a Coach who resorted to gung ho and got caught with his pants down, just like hes been doing for the best part of a decade.PS Your right on the issue of the 'absent' full back who was busy sauntering back after being caught pushing up too far when he should have been up Lewendowskis shirt. Once more, poor defensive discipline on show, which to win the CL is a vital component any team HAS to have which Arsenal have lacked pitifully for far too log. All in all last night was a game that re inforced my view that Wengers finished and should retire.

  3. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Oct 23, 2013, 11:59 #40773

    So…..reality bites. Ramsey awful, JW might as well got taken off after 10 minutes and as for chances, creating absolutely squat. I guess an improvement on last season though, as we were doing that in league games. This year we aren't but are doing it CL instead.

  4. Westlower

    Oct 23, 2013, 10:37 #40772

    Ron, Chin up matey. If we hadn't gone looking for the winning goal you'd have accused them of playing safe and lacking bottle. Sagna got caught out high up the pitch and no one covered his vacant area where their goal came from. Sod's law that JW & AR were off the pace last night, either through injury or fatigue. We desperately need a winger(s) back in the team to keep the oppositions full backs occupied. One win and a draw may suffice in the 3 remaining games, 2 wins and a defeat and we're through.

  5. Westlower

    Oct 23, 2013, 10:02 #40771

    Finsbury Joe, Kosher Kid, Dream on you Spuds, it's the only time you'll be playing in the CL. It'll be easier for AFC playing on the break in Dortmund especially if Theo is back providing width and speed & Flamini preventing soft goals that BD scored last night. Both teams were pretty evenly matched, AFC could have scored 3, and that is a compliment as to how far we've progressed. As Wenger has the greatest win ratio of any Arsenal or Spurs manager in history I'm quite happy with him reverting to type. The manager cannot legislate for individual errors.

  6. Ron

    Oct 23, 2013, 9:55 #40770

    Arsenal werent shambolic last night, but Wengers accusuation that the players were naive is only half a story. Hes the naive one. Chasing a game that a 1-1 draw would have been a good result to achieve was more his fault. He is supposed to control team play via his instructions and substitutions. He left Wilshere on for far too long and never once looked to gain any width from any where. They created little and were beaten by a more accomplished and disciplined team in the end though so no disgrace. His tactics last nioght may have condemned them to miss out on qualifying now. To be honest, if that occurs it might be a blessing as Roy Keane suggested, though Wengers obsession with chasing a trophy he s nil chance of winning wont see it that way im sure. Maybe these on here who have been trumpeting 'glory is nigh' might be a bit more circumspect now at least. As an observation,in snooker there are a quite a few players, who are very, very talented and who in a practice session can knock off century breaks as often as you want them too and 147s too without blinking or not thinking too much even, yet in a match situation, cant build a break to save their lives, become jittery and have no real temperament to handle a hardened match player opponenet. That was Arsenal last night and its been that way for the last 8 years. One outstandig player and a freebie old boy wasnt ever going to convert that squad into a mentally tough unit. Perhaps a few more will accept that now.

  7. Reality bites

    Oct 23, 2013, 0:23 #40769

    Chris.....Money bags Arsenal 1 Borussia on a shoestring 2....keep sucking those lemons AKBs.

  8. Finsbury Joe

    Oct 22, 2013, 23:25 #40768

    I recently posted wenger does not do tactics, this evening vindicated this point. Arsenal were shambolic, BD had one shot in the second half, and scored. Wenger is reverting to type. I had a premonition like dream in the summer that arsenals neighbours would knock them out of Europe, this evening the reality of that dream took a giant leap in taking hold. The first true test, and failure.

  9. Kosher Kid

    Oct 22, 2013, 21:52 #40767

    Dortmond away is looking a bit tricky now chaps! :-) Enjoy the Palace game and I will look in on you over Crimbo.

  10. declan burke

    Oct 22, 2013, 14:00 #40764

    It was a privilege to be at the emirates on saturday. I agree with the 8 point summary at the end of the article, the most telling aspect for me is point no.1 i.e.The players having a different attitude when they are NOT in possession of the ball. If OZIL is the signing of the season surely FLAMINI is candidate for next best ?

  11. Tony Evans

    Oct 22, 2013, 13:26 #40763

    Absolutely Ron - we will find out over the next few weeks and let's hope the bubble doesn't burst.

  12. Ron

    Oct 22, 2013, 13:05 #40762

    Good stuff Kev, but not like 'old times' yet matey, not until we re turning over Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea fairly frequently.

  13. Tony Evans

    Oct 22, 2013, 12:22 #40761

    Chris - Kevin is not a 'managerial genius' just someone (like so many of us on this site) that can see Wenger has at last stopped playing cavalier football; has spent some money on genuine class and brought in a proper holding midfielder. We have been crying out for this for ages and although overall squad weakness is still an issue (for me)it's a damn sight better now than it has been for years and Kevin is right when he points out why.

  14. Seven Kings Gooner

    Oct 22, 2013, 8:34 #40752

    Think Kev has summed it up very well - for me it is simple, we needed a holding midfield player and got one, we needed a world class player and got one. The results and performances have gone up accordingly, another 2 more world class players and a bit more cover and who knows what might happen. Please lets wait until end of March before we talk about trophies.

  15. Brian Dawes

    Oct 21, 2013, 23:38 #40749

    Actually Kev it is never too early to start thinking about silverware. Where fans go wrong is to start mouthing off about the possibility or probability of winning it. The trick is just to think about it, keep your mouth shut, don't mention it and just to enjoy one win after another. Then who knows what might happen.

  16. Chris

    Oct 21, 2013, 19:31 #40747

    I couldn't help noticing on re-reading this article how much Kevin thinks he knew all along how to sort Arsenal out, and how he thinks that the penny has finally dropped for Wenger and now he's doing all the things that Kevin wanted all along. Maybe you're a managerial genius waiting to be docivered, Kev? Perhaps you should think about taking charge of your local under 10s or something? Oh, don't tell me - you probably have already....

  17. billthered

    Oct 21, 2013, 18:34 #40746

    Hey Kosher I agree with everything you said but you failed to mention when we play the great West Ham at home we will be nearer the answers to our possibility of winning the Premiership.For the other questions asked we no longer have a little Russian nicking money out of the club or the other dross on silly money and not playing. The playing staff at the moment all seem to be pulling together.

  18. Spaced

    Oct 21, 2013, 17:52 #40744

    I wouldn't say I'm getting particularly carried away with our chances. I'm just enjoying the form and can take the many positives from this great run. I do actually think that Man U are over (and I love it)!

  19. Chris

    Oct 21, 2013, 17:10 #40743

    Green Hut - As I said dude - believe what you want. That's all you do - believe what you want....

  20. Gare K

    Oct 21, 2013, 14:20 #40739

    As pleasing as this current run is, at the same time I think we should all remain cautions regarding the rest of the season. In truth, with our superior players compared to who we have played so far, we are beating the teams that we should be beating (with the exception of Aston Villa) and we always beat Tottenham no matter how many good players they have. It’s in our nature & in our DNA to beat that lot, especially at home. True, the bigger tests will soon come and whilst I don’t think we would come out of all of them unscathed, I don’t think we will lose all of them too. Season 2007/08 should serve as a remainder to all Gooners that a promising title challenge could easily collapse. And there is a strong argument that league titles in 2010 & 2011 were there for the taking but were spurned for a variety of reasons and not just down to other clubs spending more money us. At what point did Birmingham, Blackburn, Bradford and other so-called inferior teams spend more money than us?

  21. Ron

    Oct 21, 2013, 14:13 #40738

    CG and Spaced - Respect lads to both of you. I cdt give two figs about the spuds and ive seen Koshers drivel before now. Where i agree with him is that the seasons only just started really. Theres a long way to go and weve all seen us bottle it at good positions before. Im just makiong the poit ive mmade all season that i ll judge us when we ve turned over some good sides a few times. Its true that we re eating teams well and its great, but they arent the best teams however many times we ve slipped up v these teams in the past. My point is like Wenger not writing off Utd for the title yet. He says its too early say they wont and hence im saying its too early to say we will. Nothing more guys.

  22. RDT - 4

    Oct 21, 2013, 14:04 #40737

    Thankfully we've not got West Ham at home until April. I'm dreading facing them mighty Hammers.

  23. Spaced

    Oct 21, 2013, 14:03 #40736

    Ron, it's not a good point. And I'm glad Kevin has dropped it too. In answer - 1, You can only beat who is in front of you. 2, These wins being in a row (or streak) is all important as it builds momentum and confidence, which is not the case when these games are considered in isolation. 3, These teams are only bottom half at the moment. Maybe we'll be lucky and the top half teams will be crap when we play them? I guess that means it won't count as much either? Eg. is NOW not a good time to play Man U? 4, The performances in the games has been good and improving in general. 5, At what point do we stop saying 'we should beat them anyway'? What if we beat all these teams that we had beaten by the end of last season and we've still got a fair chunk of season to go, does that mean we will lose the remaining games? Of course not. - - - To me it makes the 'we beat them last season/they're weak teams anyway' argument a bit pointless.

  24. CanadaGooner

    Oct 21, 2013, 13:41 #40735

    Ron, that's forgetting the teams spurs lost to season in, season out (consistently for the past 17 years they've finished behind us) are not the top teams. You can only drop a max of 6 points each against man utd, citeh and chelsea. Doesnt really explain spurs sometimes finishing 25+ points behind us in recent years. In any case, the teams that have damaged us over the years are the ones we're playing right now. So, no, kosher's point isnt that clever

  25. Ron

    Oct 21, 2013, 13:11 #40734

    Great goals etc. As much as Kosher kid s maybe a part time wind up type, he makes a good point. The truth is that our start has been very, very favourable and all the exitement is premature. He correctly says that the Nov and Dec games will put us to the test and see what the team is made of.The game at OT will start to tell the full story.

  26. Westlower

    Oct 21, 2013, 13:06 #40732

    Kosher kid, Spurs missing out of finishing above us last season will condemn you to live in our shadow for a while longer yet. History will show it was a fatal miss! Your next realistic chance will be the season after Wenger leaves/retires. Spurs could ill afford to sell Modric & Bale as it leaves them with a team of workhorses and no stars. Financial restraints forced AFC to sell our best players, what's Spurs excuse, lack of ambition maybe? It leaves your club to target the domestic cups as they lack the class to compete in the PL/CL, but unfortunately for you the year doesn't end in a 1. Cross your fingers you don't draw giant killers Blackburn or Bradford but you'll probably be ok as you're not regarded as giants! Should you wish to savour the atmosphere of a CL game you could always stand outside the Emirates tomorrow evening. Enjoy!

  27. JJB

    Oct 21, 2013, 11:55 #40731

    @kosher kid, I am confused as to why you feel the need to leave comments on an arsenal fan site? It’s a bit voyeuristic is it not? Clearly you feel the need to remind us of the fixtures we have played and the ones that we are due, do you know that we can all read a fixture list. I don’t think that many arsenal fans actually believe we will win the league, but what is pertinent for all of us is that at the moment we are not in a position to not win it! Which after the last few seasons, has not necessarily been the case, it is once again the envious neighbours still living firmly in our shadow who are getting above their station. How many of your ignoramus peers were touting a heavy beating prior to the derby, when your 100m team were humbled at our place? It may have only been 1-0 but we should have won that by at least 3, and I can only recall out keeper having to make 1 save from a deflected shot. You may have spent 100m on new players, but you all seem to have forgotten that you are actually still weaker than last season, you cannot get away from the fact you sold your best player, a world class player to a bigger team and you are still suffering from that. Ironically, that allowed us to get Ozil, so I must offer a heartfelt thank you to Messieurs Levy, AVB Et AL for facilitating the little German no 11, it really is satisfying to see us finally spend big on a world class player whilst at the same time see you lose your only one. I return to your slightly unhealthy obsession with our fixture list, I can tell you now that we do not give a flying F*** about your horrible lot, I couldn’t care less about who you are playing or when you are playing them, I (and most other goners) are only focussed on watching our boys right now, I would have thought that 18years of finishing in our shadow would have taught you that nothing is decided in October, we know that better than most clubs, so your really don’t need to pop over to our virtual turf to remind us of the fixture list. We will know more about the potential of our team by the end of the month, but you seem to forget the fact that no team really wants to play us right now? Do you think we fear anyone, playing with the confidence that was on display at the weekend? I don’t expect us to win all of our big fixtures, Id happily take a point off Utd and Liverpool. If I were you, id keep an eye on teams like Saints who are your rivals this season, I wouldn’t worry about us, as our CEO pointed out last Thursday, you are not our rivals any more. Just our neighbors, granted you were more troublesome than you have been over the last few seasons, but really that was down to us dropping our standards, and even then you couldn't manage to finish above us, despite all types of supposed “crisis” happening at the Emirates. Bless you though, I admire your spunk but please stop embarrassing yourself, 18 years of doing that should be enough for anyone but you guys please don’t forget to MIND THE GAP.

  28. jeff wright

    Oct 21, 2013, 11:33 #40730

    Fishpie,at least we didn't drop any points against Tottenham! Wasn't it spuds who were supposed to do the one nil ? Anyway one would presume that Kosher would be more concerned about his own team's problems rather than ours. Regarding our not dropping points to lower opponent's now days I would have to say that the 4 points dropped v Villa and West Brom disproves that theory. We are still capable of dropping points against anyone ,once again a Wenger side needs to score at least 2 or 3 goals to win a game - unless we play the spuds that is then 1-0 to the Arsenal does the trick. The good thing though is that all of the top sides have dropped points against lower case opponents so far - it's looking like the results against one another in Wenger's 'mini super league' will determine who wins what. Just 5 points against top 4 opponents last season says that we need to seriously improve in this area - if we are going to challenge realistically for the title - against that of just finishing 4th to get back on the Euro magic-roundabout again. Chips was knocking on about us competing at top level recently - just competing but never winning at top level are not one and the same though - are they? Can Wenger work the oracle against these younger managers with their more pragmatic approach to the game playing his fantasy football . We will learn more tomorrow night - and in the away games to Napoli and Dortmund regarding our Euro prospects.

  29. Fishpie

    Oct 21, 2013, 9:53 #40729

    Kosher Joe, hats off to you for posting on an Arsenal site without being abusive. I think you make some fair points about our status and who we have and haven't played. However you'll know that one of the many gripes some of us Arsenal fans have had over the last few years is that we keep on dropping points against the so-called lesser teams and consequently finish off the the pace for honours. Well I'm so happy just to see we are now more able to eliminate that flaw. This more than anything gives me hope.

  30. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Oct 21, 2013, 9:27 #40727

    Canada Gooner @08.54: I read a contributor on the WSC website referring to MOTD having become "the 19th hole on the golf course" of football programmes. Couldn't have put it better myself. All that's missing is a couple of diamond v-neck cardigans. The show is tired, predictable and 15 years past its sell-by date.

  31. CanadaGooner

    Oct 21, 2013, 8:54 #40724

    @ RockyRip - the speed with which Hansen and Shearer answered that question (and totally got the context of the question so wrong) was bizarre indeed. The same question was asked by ben shepherd on goals on sunday, and both rob green and nedum onouha said they fancy other teams BUT can arsenal win, based on the season so far? YES. That's how an intelligent person would answer. Everyone seems to have bought into the mindless spending hype (and Arsenal are now a team everyone would hate to see do well, as they dont want that philosophy to be undermined). Myself and others have been, and will continue to berate Wenger for waiting 8 years before doing the right thing; which was to buy a half decent player each season (and yes, we always had the money for atleast that one player; afterall we brought 5 cheap, crappy ones in and their wages would have been enough to buy one decent player); it was a failing policy and blind stubbornness, but in no way deserves the crap hansen and shearer now hand out to arsenal. It's ok for us fans to be hyper-critical (afterall we pay our way); but for guys being paid with my tv license money on the bbc to sit there and crap out rubbish is annoying

  32. Black Hei

    Oct 21, 2013, 2:39 #40721

    In other words you are saying that Arsenal is becoming more successful as Wenger stopped trying to be himself and start trying to be more like you. Wow you are so great. If only you were our manager.

  33. Benny2

    Oct 21, 2013, 0:42 #40720

    Finsbury Joe - "He does not do tactics" - perhaps, a man that has managed a team to two doubles, and an unbeaten season not doing tactics? "he hates spending" - again maybe, but Özil proves he can bite his tough on occasion for the right player (which in my opinion is better than spending dosh on any Tom, Dick or Harry, he has no concept of preventing or managing injuries - interesting, just because players get injured a lot doesn't make this statement true, and he runs the club from top to bottom - yes he does, and I think we're better for it (come at me bro). As for you saying he lacks ambition - while he's been here he has built a new stadium and training ground, won two doubles and gone a season unbeaten and taken us to a championsleague final. We are now in a much better financial position which means we can finally start spending like the other big clubs. You might be right but, lets see at the end of the season and when Wenger finally leaves.

  34. Finsbury Joe

    Oct 21, 2013, 0:32 #40719

    Quite amazing, seems some on here can be bought by Ivan Gazidis forcing Wenger to spend 42 million, mind you the CIA/World Bank have bought off so called socialist leaders in Latin America and the rest of the world for less. I remember coming on here so many times smelling the sweet smell of rebellion against all those who have turned arsenal into a world wide joke. Yet, what happens to all the rebels, the slight hint of money, they become conformist, WOB join the ranks of the worst and most arrogant of the AKBs. Like the eight years never existed. Let's see if some of you change your mind again when this lot have played some of the more difficult fixtures and Arsenal sit third place in the London League. Wenger hasn't changed you know, he does not do tactics, he hates spending, he lacks ambition, he has no concept of preventing or managing injuries, and he runs the club from top to bottom. Most of you have been telling us all this and more for years, now maybe you can tell me what's changed. Oh, I know, Ivan signed a player.

  35. Ned

    Oct 20, 2013, 23:48 #40718

    Some one needs to calm CanadaGooner down

  36. Pete Mountford

    Oct 20, 2013, 23:26 #40717

    hi kosher, who knows what will happen? I seem to remember 07/08 was similar until the end of October everyone telling us we hadn't played anyone, then even when we did start playing the harder teams we kept picking points up, and only fell away after the 'Eduardo game' in feb (even then we only lost 3 games all season). we will probably lose, draw some , but then so will others, but the key thing that should worry you beneath the bravado is just how good without the ball arsenal have looked - in general- since March (you know AVB and his 'negative spiral' we were in after the game at WHL), you see we can always play the tika taka, not as much over the previous 2 seasons i have to admit. but this team/squad works it's socks off, holds its shape, defends set pieces better and so on to grind a phase of the game or a result out, as referred to earlier, so kosher that's the bit I would worry about, can we be top in the new year?, don't know, but I expect us to be within a few points of it if not, and form there if we're in the mix come April, well!! could be interesting

  37. Gaz

    Oct 20, 2013, 23:16 #40716

    Hi Pete. Good to hear from you again. In all fairness there were a few decisions that went against us against Villa and whilst I never used them as an excuse it would have been easy for Wenger to. Credit to him an the side for the subsequent run and like you I'm just happy that I'm enjoying the experience of following Arsenal again...

  38. Kosher Kid

    Oct 20, 2013, 23:09 #40715

    Hello Pete. I am OK. Thanks for asking mate. Seriously though, some of you wiser goons must be a bit worried that the teams you have dropped points against are sitting in 12th and 13th position. The fixtures have fallen very nicely for you so far and that continues when you play Palace next week. By that time you will have played 8 of the bottom 11 teams in your 9 fixtures. I am sure you appreciate that when this sequence of fixtures ends, after the palace game, the chances are you will be top of the league when you play Chelsea in the 4th round of the League Cup. You then take on Liverpool, Dortmond, Man United, Southampton and Marseille in your next 5 fixtures. Decembers fixtures give you difficult home,league games against Everton and Chelsea and away games against Napoli, Man City, West Ham and Newcastle. Surely you acknowledge the possibility of will dropping league points getting knocked out of the League Cup?

  39. kayvins

    Oct 20, 2013, 23:05 #40714

    Its a good game though! That break in transmission during a game should be looked into,not when playing a bottom club 4 that matter. And I think the sole person to suffer being off when ramsey and wilshere are fit should be aterta,he couldn't handle the pressure alone, so therefore,flamini must be most def unshakable in there,and when the flank guys come back(walcott and chamberlain), the opposition will reduce their offensive game,being aware of a good counter advantage. The AW policy argument caught my eyes and I felt that he(AW) will surely know he made some mistakes in the past(about is view to win trophies in modern football) and castigating him about it now could be distracting,let him face what he's got in hand NOW. But if he doesn't realize his mistakes,I'm afraid of a repeat of previous 6 seasons.

  40. Pete Mountford

    Oct 20, 2013, 23:05 #40713

    hi gaz, thanks for your comments. I view a lot of sites but rarely post these days unless I feel i have something worthwhile to say. Re: your 9th point, that's true. but as i mentioned earlier, the last unknown/frontier for wenger with this 'revamped approach' (as some of us call it)is that if/when we lose/draw to a controversial decision or incident AW doesn't bleat on about it for weeks as he has done in the past creating a negative mentality in the squad. but I'm delighted that i'm feeling great about following arsenal again for the first time in a while and full credit for wenger for that.

  41. Rocky RIP

    Oct 20, 2013, 22:59 #40712

    @Canada - well said mate. Lineker asked a simple question: 'Can Arsenal win the league?' Not WILL they win the league. A subtle but important difference lost on the dullest of fence-creosoting pundits Alan Shearer. (What exactly does he add in terms of insight? He clearly hates us.) Both he and Hansen said no, which sums up how underrated we are in the media. If one of our rivals played as we did I'd be extremely impressed/worried. Our goals were magnificent and by no means out of character to how we've been all season. 25 yard screamers come and go, but I'm struggling to remember a goal like Wilshere's being scored in the premier league. Another glorious flick from Giroud. Long may this last.

  42. Gsz

    Oct 20, 2013, 22:56 #40711

    Actually Kev I think you should add a ninth point. That being that when faced with a particularly devastating result we've come back really strongly which is something we've not always done in the past when we seem to let it effect us for far too long.

  43. Gaz

    Oct 20, 2013, 22:39 #40710

    Another good editorial followed up by some great posts from an old mate of mine from the SG forum (hiya Pete!). Great win yesterday with some truly remarkable goals and we're on a fantastic run that I hope continues through the difficult month of November. I'm glad I'm now looking at AW and the club through more positive eyes but lets not pretend the last eight years could have been very different if we'd spent the money I believe we had on one or two great players rather than the seven or eight average ones of which a couple were truly awful. I'd also add that whilst it's easy to suggest AW was always going to get it right eventually it's also quite possible if he'd left in 2006 we may have had two or three top managers of which one may have just bought success to the Club anyway. That's irrelevant though now and the simple fact is Arsenes turned things around and we're playing some great stuff at the moment. The 'spirit' he often talks about really does seem to be there at the moment and for the first time in many a year just about everyone in the squad is likeable! For me though the signing of Özil was the game changer and even though Ramsey's been by far ours (and the leagues) best player this season Özil have the whole Club the lift it needed and in my opinion propelled the Club into a completely new phase. We need to carry it on now but at long last it feels to me as if the Clubs going in a positive direction. Long may that continue...

  44. Pete Mountford

    Oct 20, 2013, 22:28 #40709

    Hey kosher kid! how ya doing?, nice to know you can read a league table and a fixture list. fair points, but we're relaxed over here in N5. and let's face it your jocular approach is lovely when we all know that 'The Arsenal' have so often defied football gravity in their history and that you have spent your whole life being traumatised by your neighbours destroying every hope and dream you've had as a football fan, I cannot imagine what is like to be humiliated by your neighbours for so long and so often (you don't need me to list them do you?)

  45. Kosher Kid

    Oct 20, 2013, 22:04 #40708

    Evening all. I thought I would look in on you, as I promised, just before the NLD. I can see you are all feeling a lot better about yourselves and enjoying the good run you have been on since once again winning the NLD. Beating THFC seems to bring out the best in your players which makes me wander why you hate us so much? Anyway, my job is to keep your feet on the floor before you all start getting carried away with yourselves again. I am here to warn you that although you are clearly riding a wave of optimism and confidence, due to you being top of the league, on a very good run and playing attractive football, if you are shrewd you will treat this purple patch with caution. So far AFC have beaten Tottenham Hotspur, Norwich and Stoke at home and Sunderland, Fulham and Swansea away. You have also lost to Aston Villa at home and drawn away at West Brom. The relevant thing for you to bare in mind about these statistics is that; apart from the narrow victory against Tottenham Hotspur Football Club every other team you have played in the Premier League this season is currently in the bottom half of the table. In summary, Tottenham Hotspur Football Club are the only decent team you have played so far this season in the League. Here is the bottom half of the table for you to peruse. 11 Swansea 12 West Brom 13 Aston Villa 14 West Ham 15 Stoke 16 Cardiff 17 Fulham 18 Norwich 19 Crystal Palace 20 Sunderland Here are your fixtures for November and December. Arsenal V Liverpool Sat 2 Nov 17:30 Champions League - Group F Borussia Dortmund V Arsenal Wed 6 Nov 19:45 Premier League Man Utd V Arsenal Sun 10 Nov 16:10 Premier League Arsenal V Southampton Sat 23 Nov 15:00 Champions League - Group F Arsenal V Marseille Tue 26 Nov 19:45 Premier League Cardiff V Arsenal Sat 30 Nov 15:00 December 2013 Premier League Arsenal V Hull Wed 4 Dec 19:45 Premier League Arsenal V Everton Sun 8 Dec 16:00 Champions League - Group F Napoli V Arsenal Wed 11 Dec 19:45 Premier League Man City V Arsenal Sat 14 Dec 12:45 Premier League Arsenal V Chelsea Mon 23 Dec 20:00 Premier League West Ham V Arsenal Thu 26 Dec 15:00 Premier League Newcastle V Arsenal Sun 29 Dec 13:30 You are currently 2 points clear of Chelsea in 2nd and 4 points clear of Everton in 7th. Do you think it is more likely that by the time you have played the above fixtures AFC will have had the wind knocked out of their sails or are you confident of staying top of the Premier League until the New Year? Discuss;

  46. theopants superstar

    Oct 20, 2013, 21:41 #40707

    Georgaki-pyrovolitis: This is taken from a more recent Martin Samuel article..."Roy Hodgson, like Arsene Wenger, has proved his critics wrong. He has done so, also like Wenger, in a very unusual way: by doing precisely what the critics asked of him. The critics wanted Hodgson to play in a less cautious style, which England did against Montenegro, winning 4-1. The critics wanted Wenger to spend some effin money on world-class players. So he spent some effin money, bought Mesut Ozil — and Arsenal went top of the league. Take that, critics..." Now this isn't to slate Samuels as he is one of the few journalists whose articles are generally very interesting and whose insight and instincts tend to be right more often than wrong, yet it seems to support gooner.ed's point just as much as your Samuels quote seemingly backed yours.

  47. GoonerRon

    Oct 20, 2013, 21:32 #40706

    A great win with a lovely mixture of individual brilliance, almost telepathic interplay, incisive final balls and calm finishing. 11 wins and a draw since Villa is a magnificent reaction and 20 wins in the last 24 is a sign of our much improved consistency. Huge test on Tuesday and I can't wait for the game.

  48. CanadaGooner

    Oct 20, 2013, 21:21 #40705

    Well done to the lads and the manager. When Flamini came off, it was very clear to see how important he has become to the team, as our ball possession disappeared. I was sat at the emirates wondering if this will be another 1 - 1 draw. Ozil has been phenomenal, but we all knew how good he is; Ramsay is simply out-of-this-world right now. The way he applies himself at each game; his work rate and his desire to burst forward (and he's no longer giving the ball away as he used to) is highly commendable: well done sir!. I was seething in anger when I watched match of the day and that idiot (hanson) and his sidekick (who only won one PL title with Blackburn) both went on about how they don't see arsenal winning the title. Only a moron would say Arsenal isn't in with a chance to win the title with the way things currently stand. Yes, it's only 8 games of 38, but the question isn't: will arsenal win the title? the question was: looking at arsenal right now, and the way we're playing, can we potentially win the title? The answer is YES. Will we win the title? who knows. Don (post 43518) - you sir, are a genius! Ramessi indeed: fellow's playing out of his skin. I brought a bunch of friends to the game, who haven't attended a live game before, and they're already buying their red membership this week, and want to start coming to the games! it really was spectacular football (besides the 25mins after the 1st and 2nd goals where we somehow allowed Norwich to have all the possession). Can one trust Pelligrini to win every game? or Mourinho? or AVB? I don't think so. Given those circumstances, YES, we have a chance; but it's a long old season to come.

  49. Th14afc

    Oct 20, 2013, 21:18 #40704

    Top performance from the lads....if Barcelona had scored a goal like our first people would be bangin on about it for years,we'll see if they do for arsenal...the overall performance for the last 2 home games (Napoli and Norwich ) has seen us play like the arsenal if old at times so it's very encouraging.... Flamini's concussion worries me,we certainly need him on Tuesday night

  50. Green Hut

    Oct 20, 2013, 21:01 #40703

    Chris- That's right mate, you keep trying to use hypothesis and the unknown to support your argument, I'll keep using the huge amount that we DO know to support mine.

  51. Fishpie

    Oct 20, 2013, 20:36 #40702

    As a fan who had, like Pete Mountford, become increasingly disillusioned with Mr. Wenger, I am very happy to admit I am very impressed with what he seems to have changed about this current Arsenal team. Some extra degree of pragmatism seems to have found its way into his thinking. Post the Munich away game last season, his team found an off the ball and defensive prowess that we hadn't seen in a long long time. We all saw it, more and more games where our obsession with possession regardless of whether it was actually going anyway was replaced with things like shape, effort, discipline and break-away goals. Whether this was Steve Bould or not, I want to give Mr Wenger the credit for at last seeing it was needed and doing something about it. Also credit goes to him for seeing that Mertesacker and Arteta would add calmness, experience and set a good example to their younger teammates. Credit to him especially for sticking with Ramsey. There's no guarantee that Aron will play like this for the whole season but Mr Wenger, having tried so hard with Diaby, must be so satisfied to see this young Welsh lion emerge from the nightmare of injury and poor form he had experienced before. Credit too to Mr Wenger for bringing us Cazola and Ozil, two wonderful players for us to enjoy and salivate over. I am happy for Mr Wenger that things have at last started to go his way again. If Kevin wants to point out that the changes made have been things many of us have longed to see for a long time, that's fine, because he is right. I for one just could not fathom out why he was not sorting out things that so obviously needed sorting. But the credit all goes to Arsene because somewhere in the last year or so, he faced up to the truth that things needed changing and has, bit by bit, got a better balance, a better blend. And he still has young players making key, central contributions (eg Ramsey,Wilshire,Gibbs) he still has players discovered from relative obscurity (eg Giroud, Kolscileny) and we are still seeing wonderful wonderful football moments that will stay with us forever because of what he allows and encourages his players to do. He is a dreamer of great dreams. He is still striving for some kind of high football perfection but now it appears to be blended with a healthier dose of football pragmatism. I believe this will increase our chances of silverware success but even if it doesn't materialise, thank you Arsene for giving me, once again, something I can believe in as well as something I can enjoy.

  52. MarkH

    Oct 20, 2013, 20:19 #40701

    Forget all the arguments for a short while,and marvel at one of the most sublime goals you have ever seen,or will ever see again,and be pleased that it was scored by THE ARSENAL!

  53. David

    Oct 20, 2013, 20:18 #40700

    I never thought I'd see it again, but it looks like the unbelievable belief of yesteryear is back. It also looks as if the greatest living Welshman is still playing football in North London. What chumps they are in Madrid!

  54. Chris

    Oct 20, 2013, 19:43 #40699

    Green Hut - A 'need to spend' has to be judged against an objective. If the board's objective was to remain in the CL whilst saving resources, then Wenger (assuming Fynn's quote is verbative) told them correctly and judged it brilliantly. If he said that against an objective of winning the league, clearly he grossly misjudged the situation. I would hazzard that if the second of these was the case, then combined with what, if you / Fynn are to be believed, is Wenger's repeated and blatant lying about financial restricitons that have put the board under pressure, he would no longer be Arsenal manager. As I said before, you can believe what you like but the turth is NON eof us or even Alex Fynn are actually party to what has really gone on. If Fynn is as close to Wenger as we are lead to believe, I presume much of his information came from the man hinself. I suspect conext is all important - but of course, I doubt you and Kevin et al are interested in that...

  55. Westlower

    Oct 20, 2013, 18:40 #40698

    No surprise Anthony Taylor was involved in yet another game changing decision at the Bridge yesterday. This is the same clown who awarded two penalties and a red card against us at the Emirates in the opening game v Villa. Bad referees change games!

  56. Pires7

    Oct 20, 2013, 18:24 #40697

    "If Norwich City can put us on the back foot for a long spell because they take out the only proper defensive midfielder in the club then imagine what a top team (with all due respect to Norwich) will do." - I am truly astounded that you've said that, if that is your mind set then I feel sorry for you. What is the point of nit picking every single little thing? Just so you can justify you wanting the manager out for so long.

  57. Green Hut

    Oct 20, 2013, 18:23 #40696

    Georgaki- Yes of course, he brought covert tape recordings! Back on planet Earth, and re Swiss Ramble, on the contrary he regularly refers to Arsenal's huge cash balance, risen from £74m in 2007 to £154m in 2012, and only a couple of months ago used it as an example of the clubs ability to spend. Of course, no sane person believes anywhere near all of it is available for transfers, but Keith Edelman certainly showed that the board was willing to speculate to accumulate in March 2008 when he publicly stated 'We have £69m in cash, so we have money available. Arsene has got sufficient funds for any signing he wishes to make'. The uncomfortable truth for many Arsenal fans is that the board have been more ambitious than the manager, but if you really believe that the opinion on Arsenal matters of 'drunk Alf' down the pub holds as much credence as Alex Fynn's, then that is your perogative.

  58. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Oct 20, 2013, 18:15 #40695

    Only if you are saying that in some way what is happening now is due to OGL persisting with his vision. The point which I (and others) am making is that it is because he is departing from his modus operandi of the last 5 years, that we are achieving something. Further if he can keep up with that departure rather than reverting to type, then we can perhaps get somewhere. In my view he won't be able to manage it, or more likely still, his neglect of the important basics over the past 5 years will catch up with us. If Norwich City can put us on the back foot for a long spell because they take out the only proper defensive midfieldfer in the club then imagine what a top team (with all due respect to Norwich) will do. We are only lucky I suppose that he didn't feel that goalkeepers were an unnecessary encumberance on his attacking vision, and decide not to employ any of them in the club. If he had done you would have been hailing such a move as acceptable. Your faith was and is misplaced. It doesn't mean that you and I shouldn't enjoy the fruits of a period of sanity in the manager.

  59. Pete Mountford

    Oct 20, 2013, 18:13 #40694

    georiaki, sorry it's clearly not the standard response I gave, it was far too measured for that and is formed over weighing all the evidence up plus from many years of watching football and arsenal in particular. I'll tell you what? if that's your interpretation, you can give us a rationed counter argument, not repeating the generalities you've said already (after all if you think i'm giving a standard version of events, one could argue so are you the other way round), and not ignoring the evidence I gave over tv/CL money transfer profit either, As I said we collapsed towards the end of 2008, 2010 and 2012, when a little extra quality/experience could of won the league in one of those years at least. By the way I've been against wenger as manager increasingly since 2009, but I give credit where it is due and at the moment my view is cautiously turning back in favour for the reasons I said in an earlier post. but all of this is based on rational balance, not on the AKB/AMG polarisation

  60. Pires7

    Oct 20, 2013, 17:59 #40693

    Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge - What you're saying is even though I stood by Wenger through the bad times I am the one who must hang my head in shame? Even though you wanted him out?

  61. Alsace Lorraine de Totteridge

    Oct 20, 2013, 17:43 #40692

    Well Kevin, if you are correct and Mr Wenger is prepared to change, that surely is all that has been demanded of him. It is only those who have aspired to tell us that the Manager can do no wrong throughout the last five miserable years and who have never damanded a change of course who should hang their heads in shame. Flamini makes a HUGE difference and on MOTD last night, his place was taken as a given BEFORE Ozil was included. I will believe the manager has changed his spots when he offloads Diaby and others in January and either picks up another dedicated defensive midfielder or uses Vermalen as a substitute / addition for that role for Flamini. My suspicion will be that he will once again kid himself, as he has done for the last 5 years, that we can do without that role being fulfilled by an expert. I give him this much credit. He has kept Flamini in the side rather than try and replace him with a lightweight A.M. Let's hope the Flanimal is alright and is fit to give this improving team the defensive springboard which they deserve and need. I fear however that we may be without him on Tuesday against the toughest opponents yet.

  62. Georgaki-pyrovolitis

    Oct 20, 2013, 17:36 #40691

    Pete Mountford 17:08pm 20th Oct 2013 The problem with what you have written (which is the 'standard' version of events during the past 8 years) is that you might as well call Wenger a liar.....

  63. Pete Mountford

    Oct 20, 2013, 17:08 #40690

    and to be fair Georgaki, no one - AKB or otherwise who believes that we didn't have enough money over the past 6-7 years to by certain types of playres wasn't at board meeting either. All you can do is look at all the evidence. talk to enough people, read a range of articles and make an informed personal judgement on that. I'm convinced the club did have money as indeed they consistently said they did, However, most rationale fans didn't think we needed to do that much at various times (excluding the championship Manager fantasists)as we had a good side anyway who were close, just buy when there was a need and be prepared to do so for the players they wanted, the good positions that were squandered in the PL at the back end in 2008. 2010 and 2011 run ins bear this out as to what a couple of extra quality signing s might have done. Like Kev has often said - and others who have been critical -It's my belief (as a rationale, intelligent person) that Wenger chose to go a certain way with project youth (we all remember the potential signing of Alonso comments that it "would kill Denilson") and that he wouldn't spend what was available (which would of included Champions league and increasing tv money not to mention turning a transfer profit every year) on some experienced players, that policy clearly started to shift after the 8-2 at old Trafford in 2011, when Wenger began to accept that the top foreign players he nurture's will just move on anyway, if your not winning or really challenging at the top end

  64. Benny2

    Oct 20, 2013, 16:56 #40689

    The general consensus from the more anti-Wenger amongst us is still "We are right, you are wrong". Why don't you just accept the fact that you were wrong and if you were in charge of Arsenal we would be in 8th place with David Moyes. There have been hard times over the last few years but finally things are starting to change. As I've been informed many times Wenger runs almost everything at the Club, so he must be doing something right? No?

  65. maguiresbridge gooner

    Oct 20, 2013, 16:52 #40688

    I think we have a way to go yet before it's like old times again, winning something would be a start but yes we're certainly on the right track to fulfill Tones (apart from villa) words of wisdom lets hope we stay there. Another good display with a couple of cracking goals, it really does make a difference when you have a real top quality player in your side even if you had to go out and buy one, it certainly rubs off on others especially when he hits the ground running with another two goals. Jacks goal starting with the move was top drawer indeed, the way tippy tappy should be played. And well done to the large flag waver behind the goal who was on the ball by being up and waving the flag nearly before the ball crossed the line and before a lot of the fans. It's fun being an gooner again alright and lets hope it lasts whatever brought it about because it was a long time coming but there's a long way to go before others sit up and take notice like they used to.

  66. Georgaki-pyrovolitis

    Oct 20, 2013, 16:28 #40687

    One would expect Alex Fynn to certainly claim some authority but I would hope that he substantiated his claims with evidence. Unless he was present in the Board meetings when Wenger told them there is no need for more spending I have no more reason to believe him than anybody else. The Swiss Rambler and NotOverTheHill on Untold Arsenal both do a convincing job on interpreting Arsenal's accounts which are free for all to see. They have not been able to identify the 'substantial' sums some would have us believe have been available to the manager over the last 5 or so years. So, until Alex Fynn, Kevin Witcher, Myles Palmer or any other negative blogger can provide 'evidence' for their claims they are no better than 'drunk Alf' down the pub who only cares for bragging rights...

  67. MARCUS

    Oct 20, 2013, 16:24 #40686

    WAYYYYYYYYYYYY TO EARLY TO GET CARRIED AWAY FOLKS. AS LAST SEASON WE HAD 24 POINT OUT OF 24 WITH THE FIXTURES WE HAVE PLAYED SO FAR AND THIS TIME WE ONLY HAVE 19 SO NOT ALL GOOD FOLKS. ALSO ARE MAIN PROBLEM LAST SEASON WA SNOT BEATING THE LIKES OF NORWICH AT HOME IT WAS THE TOP 3 AND YOU COULD SAY TOP 6 AS WE HAD A 0 IN 6 WIN RATION AGAINST THE TOP 3 I.E MANURE, ARAB CITY, AND CHELSKI AND A 1 IN 12 AGAINST THE TOP 6, THAT WAS ARE MAIN PROBLEM LAST SEASON SO THAT IS WHY IM NOT GETTING CARRIED AWAY JUST YET. ARE NEXT 3 FIXTURES WILL GIVES US A GOOD INDICATOR OF WHERE WE REALLY ARE LEVEL WISE, WE HAVE DORTMOND NEXT GOING TO BE TOUGH THAN LIVERPOOL AT HOME AND PROBABLY THE BIGGEST TEST WILL BE MANURE AWAY AS WE HAVE NOT BEATEN THEM AWAY SINCE ADEBAYOR GOT THAT WINNING GOAL FROM THAT CESC ASSIST I THINK IT WAS IN 2006 OR 2007 THAT HAS LONG IT HAS BEEN FOLKS. LOOK I THINK WE CAN WIN THEM ALL BUT LETS NOT GET CARRIED AWAY WE ONLY BEAT NORWICH AND I'M NOT BEING NEGATIVE I'M BEING REALISTIC. ITS WAY TO EARLY AND THE OPPOSITION WE HAVE FACED HAVE NOT BEEN OF HIGH STANDARD YET. YES WE BEAT NAPOLI WHICH WAS A GOOD RESULT.

  68. jeff wright

    Oct 20, 2013, 15:55 #40685

    Dear James, most unbiased non-Arsenal supporters would think that it was the optimistic AKB who have been consistently proven wrong over the last 8 trophyless long years - but hey , as they say in Hollywood , why let the truth stand in the way of a good story.

  69. Bard

    Oct 20, 2013, 15:54 #40684

    Westlower; I am very supportive of the 'now' but to my mind we absolutely need to win something this season. My scepticism is not that I dont think we can on the contrary I believe that with one or two more class acts we can really be a force in the CL and Prem. My worry is that Wenger will blow the opportunity either by a lack of tactical nous ( this will count in the big games( and unwillingness to fill the gaps in the transfer window. He has previous on both counts.

  70. GoonGer

    Oct 20, 2013, 15:49 #40683

    Credit to Arsene for making 8!!! Changes hhmm!how does a top class manager at a top class club be so wrong on so many levels? I was a critic of Arsene to ( and Ramsey), but when proved wrong it takes a man to admit it.. And the Klopp dig at the end was unnessesary. Wenger to me seems to have stood up to everyone and is looking good...I said it last season before Ozil, that the players we signed with Van Persie in the team we wouldn't have been far off.

  71. Pete Mountford

    Oct 20, 2013, 15:23 #40682

    I didn't see yesterday's game - apart from highlights - as I was out of London, but those that are slagging off Kev for the 8 points he makes as 'sour grapes' really ought to take a look at themselves (just like those idiots in the media who seem to think that the booing at the villa game was only about that one game). for me points 1&2 especially deal with the major factor of the 'phase with out the ball' which - let's face it - between 2008- approx 2012) we were mediocre at putting it kindly. Georgiaki can make all the points about Flamini not being around at the back end of last season he likes, but the key factors in most of those games after we got the lift from the Munich result (e.g Swansea, WBA, Fulham) was us being willing to work for one another without the ball and keep their shape and discipline. For this Steve Bould has obviously having big influence, and before anyone comes back and says that i'm not giving Wenger credit, I , and in spades too, the fact he is - finally - willing to delegate parts of the job to others says as more about the mam in a positive way then anything(even though we must all keep quiet about it unlike the media did at the start of last season which irked him, but who cares!!) . The signing of Ozil, form of ramsey and the other players growing in confidence playing great football is fantastic and welcome ofcourse and i love wenger for this as I always did over the years with his various teams. But equally the first half at Swansea, the second half vs Napoli and the West brom game (when we didn't play well) shows that this team can battle work for one another and get the job done. and for me that is the other half of being a great team. As Kev says the key is the response when we do lose a game,particularly if we are unlucky or it is by a controversial decision. I just hope wenger doesn't do what he has in the past and that is go on for weeks and weeks what an injustice it is (OT 2004 is the most high profile of these, but there have been others), but I'm confident it is different now, Cautiously optimistic in fact.

  72. James

    Oct 20, 2013, 15:18 #40681

    Is there a better player anywhere at this moment in time than Aaron Ramsey? I doubt it. As for our midfield it must be able to compete with any of the European heavyweights including Munichs and Barca's and the squad now looks strong enough to challenge on all fronts. We know you'll never be able to please everybody, there's always the hyper negative fans who think they know best, who if you look at their past rants show they come off very poorly in their assessment of all things Arsenal.

  73. jeff wright

    Oct 20, 2013, 15:14 #40680

    The top sides will be harder to score against- and will also make better use of the mistakes we make when pushing forward.

  74. DW Thomas

    Oct 20, 2013, 15:11 #40679

    Spot on Kevin! Your list is so very on target. The best is probably Wenger changing his ways. Gone are the Denilsons and alumnias. We bought Ozil and he has transformed the club. Did you see his 80 yard run to get on the end of that header? Not only class but beautiful unabashed effort! And Ramsey I agree is the player of the season. He was Messi on that 3rd goal! Criticism is good if it spurs positive change. We are seeing the results of fans not accepting mediocrity! A team that is looking like those of old! It reminds me of 07-08. Invincibles is too big a comparison yet. Still tough tests yet to come though. But you have to love wins like yesterday. I cheered at my IPad 3 different times as I watched. Missed the first goal due to connection issues. Haven't felt that joy in a long while!

  75. lee armitt

    Oct 20, 2013, 14:51 #40678

    the goals were excellent the performance was awful sloppy all afternoon getting outplayed by a team near the bottom of the table for long periods was embrassing.

  76. Westlower

    Oct 20, 2013, 14:29 #40677

    Bard, Yes the future is now, so why aren't you believing what your eyes are seeing on the playing field? Stop licking your bruised ego from the past 8 years and look forward to good times. How ridiculous you would want AW replaced when we are on such a fantastic run breaking club records en route to topping the table & unbeaten in CL. We're playing football the majority of fans have never witnessed or ever will. For people who only measure success by winning the LC consider this, Birmingham are now skint & in the lower reaches of the Championship. Right now they're playing a once proud Leeds and will later be playing Blackburn. What do you want CL or a tin pot? Look at the bigger picture & believe in what the players & coaching staff are achieving on our behalf.

  77. jeff wright

    Oct 20, 2013, 14:19 #40676

    Wonderful first touch football and goals yesterday against Norwich - we have seen this football played on another planet before though early on in the season against ordinary opponents. It's only two weeks ago that we were lucky to avoid losing away to West Brom to add to the home defeat against Villa and just one clean sheet so far against the spuds in the 1-0 nil home win. I'm another who is not convinced that Wenger is at 64 with his best days long behind him the man to win us trophies. If you want to see flash football in short bursts - with some less than inspiring spells in-between - and 4th place is a trophy at the end of it all then Wenger is your man.

  78. Bard

    Oct 20, 2013, 13:58 #40675

    Good post Kev. Westlower I get where you are coming from but all this bull about the future has been pumped out by the club over the last 8 years to justify a lack of investment in the team. Its rubbish because we have invested huge amounts in rubbish players.The future is now. We, the fans here, disagree about how we have got here, luck or judgment, but we are in a fantastic position and are playing some great stuff. I remain unconvinced about Wenger's capacity to see us through to a trophy. He doesn't have the mental toughness or the ruthlessness to make it happen but its only my view.

  79. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Oct 20, 2013, 13:08 #40674

    A good win and four excellent goals. Not according to the anti-Arsenal BBC Alistair McGowan though: "Norwich threatened on several occasions"....."this time last year Norwich beat Arsenal 1-0"......"Norwich continued to press in the second half"......"the game was in the balance"......blimey there was me thinking that was a straightforward professional thrashing handed out. Let's not forget old Big Ears on MOTD "Norwich have kept more clean sheets than Arsenal this season!" Yes, that's why they're 18th in the table Gary.....why don't you lovable meeeedja rabble realise that we, the fans, are entitled to criticise our club if the need arises, the rest of you meeedja scum go and do one.

  80. FinsburyParker

    Oct 20, 2013, 12:28 #40673

    So I came here hoping to bask in another report of yesterday's triumph and our magic midfield.... Instead it's tainted with some sullen barbs because Wenger has made a mug of you and the other Fairweathers. I don't think Arsene is the stubborn one. But still, take some credit, big guy. It was probably your 8th-minute "Wenger Out" chant plan that did the trick.

  81. jjetplane

    Oct 20, 2013, 12:12 #40672

    Well put Kev and JW outdoing Messi was scintillating and very like the days of Pires pulling strings. Funny how the 'I also loved Arsene' mob can do no more that post negativity even when we are in Indian Summmer mode. You can snipe all day but I bet Wenger knows who the real supporters are. Dare I say the old boy is looking good. But remember - Chelski and Citeh are looking like wounded beasts. Beat them and yes we can have a Tony Adams moment again. Again - well done Kev.

  82. Tony

    Oct 20, 2013, 12:06 #40671

    It took us 4 years to replace Flamini with .........Flamini.From the moment he came on in the NLD something has changed hes the captain without the armband.You can have as many skilful midfielders but you need a tackler a player not afraid to get stuck in.You could see after he went off how much we missed him.Remember the old saying Gilberto was only appreciated when he wasnt there the same applies to Flamini.Rambo and Ozil will get all the headlines but Flamini is a major component in this team and a certain starter.A word of praise for Szczesny who has come through his mini-crisis last season.I am not afraid to admit i was one of those who said we should sign a keeper in the summer.My only worry is in the last few games Giroud has been dead on his feet after an hour the guy needs a break but with are lack of a quality striker as back up and France playing two world cup quailying games next month that rest is not coming.I cant believe i am saying this but i would start Billy Bender at Palace.The men in white coats are waiting for me

  83. Westlower

    Oct 20, 2013, 12:06 #40670

    Sam, Welcome to the Emirates. A piece of advice from a member of the 'old school', always form your own opinion and develop your own judgement and don't be swayed by the disaffected fans with agendas of their own!

  84. Green Hut

    Oct 20, 2013, 12:04 #40669

    Chris- Certainly wouldn't disagree with Auclair that the messages are conflicting (although I've never heard Wenger use the words 'I use all the money that is put at my disposal'), but Auclair's not making a judgement either way there. Guess neither you or Georgaki were at Alex Fynn's talk on Monday night when not only did he state that Wenger's had money for '4 or 5 years' but he quickly corrected someone who asserted that the board told Wenger not to spend once the stadium was built, by stating 'No, WENGER told the BOARD there was no need to spend'. Fynn is someone who really knows Arsenal and really knows Wenger, not a fawning West Ham fan asking leading questions.

  85. Westlower

    Oct 20, 2013, 11:28 #40668

    Kev, Your misguided judgement (points 1-8) is borne from frustration of AFC being forced by circumstance to adapt to life after leaving Highbury. I believe we have weathered the storm and am relieved we were able to retain our CL status throughout the early Emirates years. Without that we certainly wouldn't be watching Ozil in an Arsenal shirt. It takes time for the chemistry in a team to work and most of your points address the problems during the formative period of the team, post Highbury. The past situation wasn't helped by losing some of our best players which in turn deters other top class players from joining us. Regardless of how much is in the slush fund you can only buy players who want to join us. Consequently the remaining players were given bigger responsibilities than their self confidence could handle, eg, TV, Chamakh, Arshavin & Gervinho, who is now having an outstanding season with Roma. The negativity of the Emirates crowd has also slowed the progress of the team with it's constant bickering of players struggling for form. Contrast that with our brilliant away support (real gooners).I personally find it sickening when the Arsenal crowd & ex-players working as pundits, turn on their own players. In their wildest dreams do they think it'll help the player improve? My God, are they surprised when the likes of Ramsey improve with age and experience. Given the present talented squad plus outstanding youngsters, Gnabry, Eisfeld, Zelalem, the Arsenal future has never been brighter. If our irrational supporters can't find it in themselves to get behind this current team I don't know why they bother to support AFC at all? To wish AFC to lose games so that the manager is replaced remains the height of folly! Leave the running of AFC to the professional people in possession of all the facts. AFC has become a massive World wide club with a multi-million pound turnover and has to be managed on prudent lines. Thanks to their managerial skills we not in danger of becoming Leeds or Portsmouth!

  86. Sam

    Oct 20, 2013, 11:28 #40667

    My first live game yesterday. You just don't see Flamini's work fully on the TV. He's added a huge amount to both the defenders and more creative players around him. And Giroud's a man reborn (not just Aaron) so long may it last. I worry that too much physical stress is being laid at his door as he plays every game. Loving the way we are playing though and the confidence and team spirit is excellent. So great to be in the ground when anxiety or anger weren't the predominant feelings too. I loved the split second quiet after Jack's goal as everyone took in what had just happened.

  87. Don Froth

    Oct 20, 2013, 11:26 #40666

    Top post, as always!

  88. Salai

    Oct 20, 2013, 11:06 #40665

    You see these sorts of lists all across the gooner web, 'Oh I'm not wrong it's what I always wanted but Wenger never agreed with me and look at how right I was and how much of an inconsequential loser he was'. Here's an itemised list why I'm still going to cling onto the belief that my opinion is more relevant than anyone elses. I can't remember many, if any at all, that thought Flamini was the solution, or that we'd get Ozil, it's pathetic when people talk of the 'market rate' like it's soo stupendously simple that it should be completely straightforward. Ramsey was a favourite, Wilshere's been getting stick lately, Gibbs, Koscielny and Sczcesny were persevered with, Giroud, Walcott, nursed through, Cazorla found on the cheap, somehow I doubt you'd have picked Gnabry to have played a part. Thing is, a bit like Ozil, I'm guessing a loss or two and you're cynical 'I know best' attitude will be back, not because you fail to understand that spending 50 million Euro's on a player, offering him 150k a week and attracting him from Real Madrid and over every elite club in Europe might be quite difficult to work towards, but because you're addicted to the feeling you get when you let forth a stream of poorly reasoned, superfluous, hyperbolic invective and you can sense people nodding away like mindless simpletons at how right you are. Good win, bit cagey, lovely goals, going to be tough grinding out wins against the big sides until we've got a settled and healthy squad again. Come on the Arsenal.

  89. Chris

    Oct 20, 2013, 10:57 #40664

    Georgaki is spot on iwth both his comments. re budegts -to provide another quote from Auclair in this website recently: "The board says he has money to spend, but then you hear Wenger saying he uses all the money that is put at his disposal, which is not exactly the same message. It’s conflicting." Only people like Kevin, Green Hut etc choose to believe one side and ingnore the other when the sensible position would beto at least admit we don't know. No doubt Kevin will claim special sources / special powers / whatever to justify that but I don't buy it. Basically, you guys just believe what you want. Oh yes you do, you believe what you want....

  90. Gare K

    Oct 20, 2013, 10:48 #40663

    Credit to the players and the manager for a good performance and an excellent win to boot even if the score was a tad flattering. But that doesn’t bother me. If we are to build on this current title challenge then scoring plenty of goals is must but it’s also important that we are keeping clean sheets too and it’s slightly worrying that we don’t keep enough shut-outs. After all, how many of our title wins have been built on solid defensive units? Wilshire’s overall performance was impressive let alone his wonderful goal. I’ve always said he’s an attacking midfielder and yesterday has proved why he is. His tackling is similar to Paul Scholes (one of my favourite players of all-time) and he couldn’t tackle for toffee. I’ve never understood why many see him as a DM. Watch the impressive Flamini and Wilshire and decide who the proper DM is and who isn’t? Too many other players to mention who look like men are reborn thanks to Ozil. Long may this run continue. Hopefully we won’t see the capitulations that we have seen in recent years when we have lost games but we will dust ourselves off and bounce back immediately when the run does end. Still a very long way to go but the early signs are promising. Up The Arsenal!

  91. Madrid signed the wrong Welshman

    Oct 20, 2013, 10:14 #40662

    Spot on Kev.Things had to change after the disaster of last season and they have.We have all been crying out for years for a DM who does that, protects the back 4.And Flamini is that man.I like Arteta but he isnt and never will be a DM.Even against Norwich you could see how much we missed Flamini when he went off.As you say for too long we have had 4 attacking midfielders now we play a destroyer in there to stop the opposition.Also we all said we had to spend big on world class players and not £12m on crap like Gervinho.If you want players like Ozil you cant get them on the cheap now lets spend big on a striker in jan.I know Bendtner is good comedy value when we win 4-1 at home but i dont want him leading the line if Giroud gets injured.You talk about your critics Kev but you were only telling it like it is.If things hadnt have changed we would have been in the same position as last season.Finally Kev you havent said it this time so i will say it for you we have played 8 games so far in the same games last season we won them all

  92. Torbay gooner

    Oct 20, 2013, 10:14 #40661

    A good win with some sublime goals, but once again against a team we should be saying 'can we play you every week'. Bring on the big boys and judge our title hopes after those matches.

  93. Georgaki-pyrovolitis

    Oct 20, 2013, 10:01 #40660

    I assume point 2 refers to Matthew Falmini. Well Arsenal well on an upward trend from the victory over Bayern Munich. No Flamini in the team yet. The addition of a world class player does need money. If you are relying on youth it may be because money is tight. Here's an interesting quote from Martin Samuel, should we believe him or you? By MARTIN SAMUEL - DEBATE PUBLISHED: 11:30, 4 July 2013 | UPDATED: 13:03, 4 July 2013 "He is not an idiot. I think he works with what the board gives him, and they consistently let him down by then trying to curry favour with the fans by claiming he has this huge budget. Some summers he has to sell before he can buy, which is rarely helpful in attracting the best players once they see a talent like Cesc Fabregas leave the club. A few years ago I sat with Wenger and asked him about the unrealistic expectations fostered by the board and he said they had agreed not to do this to him in future; a pledge that would appear to have been broken several times."

  94. BADARSE

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:59 #40659

    Thanks Kevin, the lady (!??!) wasn't for turning, but seems our editor is preparing to, and wisely so. My main observation is that we found two substitute strikers yesterday, and in so doing remove the spurious clamouring for back up to Olivier. Nick Bendtner showed fire in his play, but his whole body language suggested to me that he wants to be a part of this vibrant squad. The second and less obvious applicant was Mesut, as you touched on, Kevin. He clearly is a class act both in supplying and finishing. A while ago I said I hoped and anticipated him returning a tally of 15 goals and 15 assists. His total to date is 3-5, I believe. So 12-10 required. Anyone want to bet he won't hit those figures, or even exceed them? Loved the team goal-superb. Loved Aarons solo goal, and his overall confidence. Flaminal has hit the mark in everything I hoped and believed he might; he was missed for a spell until we adjusted to his absence. The future is bright, the future is red and white.

  95. underacheiver

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:46 #40658

    Add number 9 - bringing in Bouldy.

  96. Website Editor

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:41 #40657

    @Georgaki-pyrovolitis - Georgaki - See my list of what has changed. 8 items. How many are related to financial constraints as a consequence of the stadium move? And even this ignores the board's constant declaration that funds were always available to the manager, even when times are tight.

  97. Zbizz

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:38 #40656

    Market rate? I'd argue with the silly money thrown around, especially for dicey monkey face boy, that we got Özil on the cheap! And how about a Laudrup/Bould combo when Wenger steps down. With Bergkamp as coach!

  98. Dan h

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:24 #40655

    Playing some great stuff at the minute confidence is flowing as evident with the first goal may be biased but the best goal i have seen this season.Ozil being there also gives more room for others to exploit long may it continue.Always tricky after interlull week great team effort.

  99. Georgaki-pyrovolitis

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:22 #40654

    So, Kevin you just don't buy the narrative that the manager was working under severe financial constraints during the last 8 years. All the changes he has made are those recommended by you and your ilk. Maybe he does read the On Line Gooner. If he does we must be thankful hey? What about the effect of the negativity pouring forth from your publication and other fan blogs having a cumulative effect on the crowd at the Emirates? The booing of players such as Ramsey, do you take credit for that too? I think you should because you clearly think the manager and board heed your advice therefore the opposite must be true to. There are some excellent posts out there showing that comparison of Arsenal with Borussia Dortmund or Bayern Munich are spurious. I suppose it's not convenient for you to take those on board it just makes your narrative questionable. Pathetic.....

  100. 600NER PETE

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:17 #40653

    Certainly missed Flamini when he was injured and let Norwich back in the game, but our quality showed through in the end. Four brilliant goals and two points clear. Looking forward to Tuesday!

  101. Don

    Oct 20, 2013, 9:12 #40652

    Aaron RaMessi