Wenger-Ball is back!

Arsenal a modern day version of Cruyff’s total football?



Wenger-Ball is back!

Wilshere goal v Norwich


Having given Arsene Wenger a hard time with my earlier blogs, this week. one must give credit where credit is due. Arsene Wenger alone is responsible for the training methods that enable the brightest prospects to go into the cauldron of a premier League fixture and still play without fear. It is his signing of Flamini which is looking to be a master stroke. Before Flamini’s latest injury set back, he was getting better in every game and his dominance of the midfield was a joy to watch. He broke up the opposition attacks and managed to keep the ball under extreme pressure of two or sometimes three players around him. So congratulations Arsene Wenger, please stick to what you have proven to be good at!

Defensively I still feel that we still need to press the opposition more and prevent them from having too much time on the ball. Is this a question of fitness I wonder? Anyway one thing is clear, Giroud appears to be a deft exponent of Wenger-ball and together with Cazorla and Özil every swift demonstration of Wenger-ball should fill us with pride about Arsenal’s quality attacking play. Jack Wilshere’s goal against Norwich was Wenger-ball at it’s best. The confidence is also springing from the positive goal keeping of Szczesny whose double save at Crystal Palace recently meant they were unable to profit from playing against 10 men.

Palace were chasing shadows for the first fifteen minutes of the game so superlative and assured was the performance, and on another day Arsenal could have scored three or four goals. So what exactly is Wenger ball?

Here are the key components then.
1. High paced moving and running with or off the ball.
2. Sublime first touches.
3. Ability to bypasss opponents in congested confined areas of the pitch.
4. High quality technical ability to control the moving football.
5. Awareness and anticipation of other team mate’s movement.
6. Understanding of the importance of running into and receiving the ball in key areas of space on the field which will result in goal scoring chances being made.

The image above is a pictorial reminder of Wishere’s goal. The move was started in the Arsenal 18 yard box and involved Flamini who laid the ball off to Wilshere who advanced and played the ball wide to Gibbs. Gibbs ran swiftly down the left flank and passed to Cazorla who then made an angled run in field and passes to Wilshere who then returns the ball to Carzorla, as seen in the graphic above.

In my opinion, Wenger-ball is a variation of Johann Cruyff’s Total Football. It is a form of play that entertains whilst at the same time, devastates the opposition. It requires technically gifted players combined with a training regime which allows them to play this game naturally. The last time that Wenger-ball was in evidence was in the season 2003/4 and we all know what happened then. Come on you Gunners!!!

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54
comments

  1. BADARSE

    Nov 05, 2013, 13:51 #41321

    radfordkennedy welcome to the Online Gooner Musical Choral Society. I am tempted to do a Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band, so why not? Gooner's Intro Outro version: Welcome Bard on drums, westlower on Forgive, and jumpers on the floor. AFC board on the fiddle, and maguiresbridge on prosac. With Arsene on a high, and chris dee on 'E', underachiever on fire, Unchives on remand, then there's Rocky The King en garde, and chris on side. Then Seven Kings on going, Canada on trumpet, and SGR Boy on and on. There's Green Hut on the wagon, WeAreBuilding on tea duty, and the AFC tea lady on cups, with Stevie Bould on spoons. John Gooner on castanets, and David en passant. Rocky RIP on the cupboard and Gooner Ron on the shelf. The Arsenal squad on triangle, and Mandy Dodd on tambourine, and radfordkennedy on the sofa, with Gare K on promotion. Jason B on nil by mouth, and DW Thomas on the road. There's Paul Adams on bagpipes and Mike on CG, with Dan h on the level, and Jason B on call. Then Ivan on the make, also Mike W on duty. Then jjetplane on his bike, and Alsace on holiday, with Clive The Gooner on guitar and Clapton on bassoon.Then JAMIE on full volume, with BADARSE on your nerves...and Arsenal on top! Apologies to those I missed.

  2. Ron

    Nov 05, 2013, 11:09 #41311

    Morning Westie - Rod Stewart - the imitation scotsman!. What a knob he is. Its time he retired along with Auntie freaking Elton, another overrated glam merchant. While theyre at it, can somebody transport McCartney (cant stand the arse licker) to another solar system. This creepy bunch seem to dominate everything at the present!

  3. Westlower

    Nov 05, 2013, 10:52 #41310

    R/K, Never saw Humble Pie but saw Steve Marriot with Small Faces in an open air concert at Heacham in late 60's. Tin Soldier & All Or Nothing, two of the best songs to come out of that era. The Faces were on a par with The Who when Steve fronted the band. Unfortunately my love of the Faces faded when Rod Stewart took over. Met Roger Daltrey in Small & Beautiful, Blackstock Road, on a European night at Highbury.

  4. Ron

    Nov 05, 2013, 10:11 #41304

    R/K - Yes. I rated Humble Pie for sure mate. My Dad used to tell me that the 'lucky Arsenal' tag actually started in the 30s when he was a kid. Its just never quite gone away. No idea why, as we ve had some appalling luck at times over the decades, as have other Clubs of course. Stupid papers and media i suppose! They do so love a myth.The biggest myth theyve propogated and sustained in my lifetime is the 'everybody loves and respects Man Utd and accepts that theyre the window of english football and all that is good about it'. I recall well their European Cup Semi final v Milan in 69. I was with s few school mates most of whom were giving it the 'lets just hope, 'we' can win this' garbage as we listened through a crackling radio commentary in an old hut near to the local green where we had been playing footie. There was me (and one other lad) saying 'f--k 'we', c'mon Milan'. I had the mother of fights with a certain Michael Deardon afterwards as manure got beat. Enjoyed giving him a good dig, very much so after his crowing for so many years of my schooldays! Happy days. A few months later we thrashed them at Highbury as their welcome descent from grace gathered pace.He wasnt so keen on another ruck after that one.

  5. radfordkennedy

    Nov 05, 2013, 9:51 #41303

    Ron ..Badarse..Westlower..ever since i first heard Jimmy Reed singing 'bright lights big city'i was hooked on that sound and the bands it went on to influence my favourites being Skynyrd and Humble Pie,incidently if they ever come your way try and catch Peter Green's Splinter Group...on matters football the 'total' football being talked about was amazing to watch almost coreographed,having said that of course any team containing Neeskens,Kroll and Cruyff would have half a chance..Does anyone know what happened to that huge banner at the emirates that simply said'the spirit of 1970 with an outline image of Frank Mclintock i was rather fond of that...on the subject of the media theres no doubt that certain quarters are loathed to give us any praise indeed i remember the 'Lucky Arsenal'tag being used 40 years ago and we had just won the double FFS!,but the instance which still ranckles with me now is when Cockerill said something quite disgusting to Paul Davis and ended up with right hook to the jaw for his troubles,yet davis was villified in the press for being a bully

  6. Weather Vane

    Nov 05, 2013, 8:49 #41299

    After beating Liverpool I blow back in the direction of 'Wenger is King' after being in the direction of 'Wenger is a c***' after losing to the Chavs. What way will I be blowing after Man Utd?

  7. Torbay gooner

    Nov 05, 2013, 7:52 #41298

    Thanks for the diagram Rocky, it was a lovely goal! However, can we do that against the chelskis and Manures of this world? If we put in a good performance and get a result this weekend then maybe I will start to believe that if we are still in the mix after xmas(and subject to Wenger spendiing money on a 'top' quality striker) we can go all the way. I must take issue with Ron about past games at Old Trafford, it is possible to win there as we did it in 98,02(who can forget) and 06. Agree that we were robbed in 04, but our performances over the last three or four years there have been absolutely dire and they needed no help from the ref to beat us on those occasions. Hopefully this will be the weekend to turn that around.

  8. DW Thomas

    Nov 05, 2013, 3:02 #41293

    Can't remember the last time I saw Wenger yelling directions from the like he did against Liverpool. Good to see. He knew how big a game it was...for confidence an to stave off the critics awhile. I do give Wenger some credit for our form. But, we need a few reinforcements in January. Without them we will likely fade if our recent injuries of years past continue. However, we did beat a quality side and I for one hope we beat Dortmund and United not only to shut up the pundits but to give some credit to this Wengerball. Been reading Bergkamps book and it is fascinating, him talking about his desire for perfection. He talks of his time with Cryuff and others. Like Wenger, he wanted to win with panache! I have had my problems with Wenger and his style, yet if he wins the league it would be a beautiful thing. And be a vindication for aesthetically pleasing football. Just can't stomach another groundhog season where we flop again come crunch time. The key for me is not the aesthetic attacking but the hard pressing defensive effort. That's what wins games and keeps the ball. It too is beautiful too watch.

  9. Red Tide

    Nov 04, 2013, 23:44 #41291

    With the big game against ManU this Sunday, it’s not suprising people are focussing on our performance against the other top 4 teams. It’s also been the media line that you can’t say that Arsenal are title contenders until we have met some of the other big teams. It’s interesting that before last Saturday the Liverpool opposition was part of the big test that we had to face, but now that we have trounced them the media luvvies have now decided that its only by beating ManU, ManC or Chelsea that it really counts. A lot of them just don’t like us. Having said all that, if you look at the results of the top 4 teams last season, it’s quite revealing. ManU finished with 89 points compared to our 73 points in 4th place, but where the top 4 teams dropped points is quite revealing. Points dropped in games against another top 4 side were: Chelsea 5, ManC 7, ManU 8, Us 16. However, points dropped against all the other weaker teams were: ManU 17, Us 25, ManC 29, Chelsea 34. That shows that last year ManU were 8 points better than us in top 4 games and 8 points better than us against weaker teams. It is clear to see how the games against the weaker teams are so important, for instance Chelsea had the best results in the league in the top 4 clashes (only dropping 5 points) but they blew it by dropping 34 points against the weaker teams. We are doing everything right now by winning all these weaker opposition games, and our title chances will significantly depend on continuing in this vein. Losing a big game can be demoralising when you lose 8-2, but I can’t see our team doing that now, so we should overcome a blip against a top 4 side, if it happens. I am quietly confident.

  10. Roy

    Nov 04, 2013, 23:03 #41290

    Just as I was about to add a well thought out post about our performance on Sat and our chances going forward, it will now have to wait. John Beck ??? I'm absolutely f*****g gobsmacked.

  11. BADARSE

    Nov 04, 2013, 21:59 #41289

    westlower, you never cease impressing me, pal. Bonjour mon ami Rocky le roi. Great article buddy, really intense and clever stuff. As a young man watching the Dutch masters, and am not talking of people like Vermeer, am not that ancient, I sat in awe. I had always been attracted to the artistry of individual players, and growing up the Brazilians were gods. I craved from players the balletic poise I knew existed. The Dutch took football to a different level...then Arsene Wenger happened by. He had the greatest defence in the history of football to keep us safe, and just grafted on innumerable artistic talents. We could have become Invincible, oh, we did! @Bard. Just consider this, if no one cared what media people think, then how come we have such a narrow-minded and bigoted society? This country is media-led my friend. You may not be, and I am not either but there are very impressionable minds out there, all being damaged, especially the young. This weekend we have a mountain to climb, but climb it we might, then as you tacitly suggest, the media and it's Dad can take a hike.

  12. Jason B

    Nov 04, 2013, 20:34 #41288

    Fantastic goal by Jack, one of the best we've scored as a team for many years. Talking of 'as a team' we have two massive games this week. The team will need to raise their game to beat Dortmund and even higher to get something from Man Utd. If Arsenal are serious about winning a title, then they need to win these type of games.

  13. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 20:21 #41287

    CG - Hard to argue with that. I'm still of the view that this run has been despite the Clubs general management and despite Wenger. The chips have so far fallen kindly and the wind is a fair one. Yes i know theres the Ozil signing but i truly feel getting him was a sop to the baying fans. Flamini was a 'circumstance' that seemed to to fit. The rest has been the players giving it a go. Theres a feel to it all to me that this is AWs last Season and hes sort of going through the motions, doing what he has to do, spent a bit of cash and may do so in Jan too and the players are desirous of giving him a good send off. There's something surreal about it all and quite a few of us are buying into it.That's OK as its a welcome diversion from the last 5-6 years but if the wheels come off there will be a few despondent faces wanting explanations, when really the answers are all there now staring at them who look at it coldly.Hope to be very wrong.

  14. CanadaGooner

    Nov 04, 2013, 20:09 #41286

    Any team with Bendtner as their option B is not serious about winning anything

  15. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 04, 2013, 19:43 #41285

    N4 : We apparently went after Mascherano in the last transfer window, now he is your Flamini type player and some more, he can also play at centre back. Buy him in January and a proper back up striker and we might just have enough to win something. If we could buy the Argentinian we would get one player for two positions - vital when you are playing 2 games a week!

  16. N4

    Nov 04, 2013, 19:00 #41284

    Whatever it is we haven't won anything yet as it's only 10 games played. Let the pundits making noises and to be fair at the moment we can't contradict that so let's keep our feet on the floor and let's win our game at a time! I agree that our team is still thin and need a couple of reinforcement - definitely another Flamini type of player!

  17. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 18:58 #41283

    Confused - Absolutely mate They have haven't they. John f----ng Beck! That master of refined ball skills and technique, a legend of euro footie folklore and Cambridge s and Fulhams answer to Alfredo de Stefano! I rest my case mate that i mentioned earlier that the ghost of Charles Hughes still stalks the FA corridors. Its pathetic. Eng are truly a 3rd world football set up and deserve to be.

  18. Man United Killer

    Nov 04, 2013, 18:32 #41282

    @Ron great great post @ Post No. 44126.I needn't add anymore except to emphasize that I really don't think there is an anti-Arsenal agenda there either.It's just the truth.We wont win it this year.

  19. Westlower

    Nov 04, 2013, 18:30 #41281

    Ron, Good to know you're as cynical as me about the Mancs. Wasn't always so, but Sky have changed the way football is reported. I'm sure every commentator is on a bonus for the number of times they mention their name, especially in games they're not involved in. Any vague link will do! Make note of how many mentions they get as the commentators will always find a way to talk about them. Badarse, I going to impress you now; I've got the CD, 'A tribute to Stevie Ray Vaughan', tracks include Texas Flood - Jimmie Vaughan; Long Way From Home - Buddy Guy; Love Struck Baby - Robert Cray; Telephone Song - B. B. King; Cold Shot - Dr. John. The best line ever written in a blues song was "if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all" from Born Under A Bad Sign. Comes in handy at the races!

  20. BADARSE

    Nov 04, 2013, 17:36 #41280

    Rushing out, time to leave you Ron, and westlower with this name, Jimmie Vaughn. Any takers? Nice to connect with music guys.

  21. Confused

    Nov 04, 2013, 17:26 #41279

    Ron- And the FA have just appointed John Beck to St Georges Park to take new and young coaches through their Uefa B-level badges. It would be laughable if it didn't have such serious ramifications for the future of English football. We'll all wonder in 10 years time why we STILL aren't producing technically gifted footballers at the highest level. THIS will be why.

  22. Unchives

    Nov 04, 2013, 17:22 #41278

    @Westlower- Sky are the Mancs PR Department.Michael Oliver is the appointed ref for the game.Its a game we must not lose. We have worked so hard to build up our lead. We win this one and the Mancs are out of it as far as im concerned.

  23. Bard

    Nov 04, 2013, 17:09 #41277

    Rocky: the media are a little over the top but in my book they have one thing right, we won't be competing come April if we don't buy a couple of top players including a striker . Also frankly who cares what the muppets in the media think

  24. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 16:55 #41276

    Rocky the King - Its a great debate isnt it mate. Hope you didnt think i was criticising your ealier post, just adding to it matey. Cruff - Yes, he was i think just more pragmatic but his teams were very good and Barca have grown on the seeds he sowed for sure. There have been some landmark coaches havent there and teams who have had siesmic effects on football, in their leagues and the World. Arsene himself has brought a vision and a style to English football that would never have arrived had he never have come here, whatever our views on the guy are now.Its such a pity he s never won a CL with his philosophy, though i doubt he ever will now. Dads of those of such as me and one or two others marveled at the Hungarian team of the deep lying centre forward that came here in 1954 and destroyed and humiliated ( so called unbeatable at Wembley) England! They were game changers and English football admired, talked about and then did nothing for the next half century. Charles Hughes at the FA said the english long ball, huff and puff was the way ahead and his culture still holds sway here, though a few have dared to challenge it. Not english coaches though. Theyre rooted and tarred in those neandherthal ideas. The history of football is such a fantastic subject. Its such a shame that fans of different are so detached from each other in todays society here and never admire what they see in other teams.It reinforces the state of humdrum that pervades football coaching here and Charles Hughes tired old methods. I blame the media and SKY for that. They love the angst and partisan views that Clubs fans hold and actually encourage it in their coverage.

  25. ROCKY THE KING

    Nov 04, 2013, 16:49 #41275

    BadArse... good rant! You are right that the media hate Arsenal, I would go further, I would say that the FA and the majority of the non committed fans hate Arsenal. Remember Vieira spitting v Leics? ?life ban, or Ian Wright v Smeichel, ?10 game ban Or the send Tony Adams to prison for life brigade? all FA inspired but happily they didn't succeed. Next it was hang and flog Thierry Henry and Pires for that penalty mix up against Portsmouth 2003/4. Apparently we were cheating, or was it that no one else knew the rules of football??? Recall the chant "Same old Arsenal, always cheating?" What about the ManU slug fest with Ruud van-Diving Nistelroy and our Martin Keown, he should have been thrown in the Tower of London apparently, and of course... Wenger is blind.... I didn't see anything!!! The latest insult is despite the results to date, we are not title contenders...lol I love it when they do that, because it will rile our boys to prove them wrong! We need to worry when they like us to be honest...

  26. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 16:35 #41274

    Westie - Agree there re Manure. Im going there on Sunday and ive the same dread as i had that day in 04 (game 50) when i ad many all said well before the fixture that theres no way on earth Arsenal were going to be 'allowed' to win that game and so it proved. The same darker forces will be at work again despite no Taggart. They ll have a ref who s ear has been bent (probably already been done). Manure will get a penalty for sure and we ll have to perform like demons to get at least a draw. Id take a point now. A win isnt possible there and its got nothing to do with football. Agree totally with you. Ive felt for years since SKY bought footies soul, heart and lungs that there are games that are bent, twisted and fixed to suit the TV. You ll recall when titles were won, done, dusted and all over by late Easter. Not now. All last day stuff, same as the relegation battles are. Cant have viewers watching 'end of season' games can we!!

  27. ROCKY THE KING

    Nov 04, 2013, 16:31 #41273

    Thanks to Confused and Ron for the extended discussion on Total Football. I accept Confused the misintepretation made on my mis-reading of your original reply. Ron, I also accept the Rinus Michel's original hypothesis, but didn't Cruyff see his vision as interchangeable movement and passing, such as the right winger moving centrally as a consequence of a flowing rapid movement involving one-two passing and bypassing opponents? I have certainly enjoyed reading all of your contributions to this thread. I still feel that Guardiola had it about right, playing total football in attack, but playing total defence when without the ball, which i can agree with confused is more than simply good football, it is SUBLIME football for the purists and entertaining for the majority.

  28. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 16:24 #41272

    BADARSE - How goes it matey. I think what youve said about dislike of Arsenal was true many moons ago, but not now, certainly not outside of London anyway. Most who i speak to, like the Arsenal way and the type of play and cant understand why any of us criticise anything about Arsene or the Club. Very popular in the South West cetal areas anyway and to my knowledge we have a few admirers in and around the Mersyside area too. Ive had many a happy chat with fans up there when ive been to Goodison and Anfield and at other times too. I happen to think that the football fans on Merseyside are perhaps the most knowledgeble by far and fairest fans that there are to be honest. I know im opening myself up to a barrage saying this, but i can only speak as i find. PS My friend - Agree with you and Westie on Baez. Im a blues music man myself or indeed aything that involves expert guitar playing. Rory Gallagher, Clapton, liked JJ Cale (bless him and RIP) BB King etc loads of em! love it.

  29. Westlower

    Nov 04, 2013, 14:43 #41271

    Unchives, It can't be big odds that the ref at OT will be Howard Webb or Mike Dean. They can't afford to let us get 11 points clear of the Mancs. Too many SKY customers will be upset.

  30. BADARSE

    Nov 04, 2013, 14:03 #41270

    Afternoon westlower. It is an absolute joy to discover that you recognise Joan Baez's qualities. I am still a child and when I encounter someone who likes/loves an item I do, and in a similar way I hope that there are other connecting threads... Clapton, Baez, that is enough on the musical score even if we disagreed on many other artists. As an active and keen opponent of apartheid Biko is a big Baez favourite of mine. Hauntingly, crystal-clear lyrics. As I said buddy, a joy. OK to the other posters, this next statement is gleaned from years of experience, so heed me well. Football people who do not support Arsenal, generally do not like Arsenal. Simples! It is a generalisation, but the attitude exists. If you have spent a life in and around the area you may have generally only met Tiny Totts wandering around, looking forlorn and lost, grumbling about Arsenal, though that is slowly changing, incorporating other successful clubs. In the provinces it is any one of 6, the current best 7, minus Everton, who are evident. The shirt-wearing depicts it. As does a trip abroad. In Eire it is 2xMancs, Liverpool, Chavs and us. A slight variation. Growing up has seen a teasing approach, bordering rudeness, from many that I have encountered. It stems from the sheep-like mentality who attached their reasoning to the Spuds complaints of us moving to Highbury. There was an official distrust and/or dislike of us anyway as the first southern pro club. These dinosaurs thought we were aliens to the good amateur, southern style. Then we began to win, and win again. The English mentality assassinates winners eventually. So it was with us. Then in Bertie Mee's era, followed by GG's, the vehemence was back with a vengeance. Boring, boring Arsenal, ring any bells? Then Foreign manager, most in Prem, and any other mindless aspect that could be exploited. That is the best reason for winning a trophy in my book, just to get the media muppets off our backs, as the moronic jibe of us not winning one for however many years is clearly a good enough stick to poke us with. Those TV pundits do not like us. Fact! Rant over.

  31. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:58 #41269

    Rocky the King - Rinus Michels masterminded Total football and the concept is that each player can drop into the others position. Its not neceassarily the same as each player being 'as good' as each other in each others position. The idea is tha a teams shape remains constant while players momentarily fulfil the role of another player.Michels was the genius behind it, not Wenger for sure, not Cruyff who never followed its precepts to the letter when he was a Coach and certainly not Guardiola whos tika taka isnt Total football anyway. His brand is about pressing and possession holding in small units, aided by the brilliance of the players Barca created. His defenders are quite conventional really, though have great amounts of ground to cover.Total football didnt and doesnt require the worlds best players in their positions, it requires great intelligence and a discipline thats lacking in todays game. It was played in response to the cynical and blanket defending of the 1970s, largely Italian fueled methods. Todays TV fueled goal glut game demands, largely assisted by the demands of rule changes to suit the viewers desire for goals goals and more goals might make Total football inpossible to work again, though some of the players Michels had were the best footballers of the time. Youre right in that getting the best players around for each position doesnt work. 'Ego' usually wrecks that notion. Madrid was wrecked by 'ego' back in the early noughties but the concept could potentialy work. As for Chelsea and RA buying the best players? Im confused by that notion. I cant think of one player whos gone there since RA landed who was undisputably in that bracket. They spent the world s best prices maybe, but the objects of the expenditure wasnt the real McCoy top dog players. Chelsea afor all his wealth doesnt offer a platform for the worlds best to shine and anyway the creme of the worlds players avoid the PL like the plague, for many good reasons. The PL simply gets one or two who develop into being close to top world class players (Ronaldo), then they leave to hone their game and status elsewhere in environs where they can.

  32. Confused

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:55 #41268

    ROCKY THE KING- I didn't describe 'Wengerball' as coaching players to play in every position, please re-read my post. And I didn't say that good players assembled guarantees good teams and results, I said that the fact that this tends to happen could be the only (albeit tenuous) link between your imagined 'Wengerball' and Rinus Michel's real total football.

  33. GoonerRon

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:51 #41267

    @ Ron - I think you're right in that this team isn't as good as the invincibles in a number of areas, although I do think over the last 25 games or so we have really improved our level in terms of defensive discipline in midfield and better organisation in the back four. I feel three years ago we were very one-dimensional but this season we've seen good evidence that we are prepared to (and capable of) letting the opposition have the ball, defend well, and become more counter-attacking. And when the situation allows, we can move the ball quickly and incisively when up against a packed defence. As for what the media say, whilst they grate me a little bit, I'm glad we are being written off at this moment. It means the pressure is lower and we can continue to focus on winning our games and maintaining/increasing our lead at the top. Credit to Wenger in this respect also, the noises he is making suggest he is not getting carried away and keeping the players feet on the ground - exactly what is needed.

  34. ROCKY THE KING

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:30 #41266

    This response was triggered by Confused... To describe Wenger-Ball as coaching players to play in every position is a little disengenious. Whilst I cannot see the logic in playing the world's best no 10 out on the left wing, I do understand how you might have arrived at your conclusion. Wenger coaches his players to play within a confined space with often defenders outnumbering attackers on smaller pitch areas to enable the swift inter passing known affectionately as tippy tappy football. The intention is to enable the speed of passing combined with movement to carve a way through defences known as "parking the bus". Cesc Fabregas was an excellent playmaker who was able to exploit these tactics and in Giroud, we have a striker whose first touches can be as good and delicately weighted as CF4. Guardiola should thank Cruyff not Wenger, as he is the ultimate aspiration for both. Where Wenger failed and Guardiola succeeded was in the ethic of playing the same way when they did not have the ball. Barcelona under Guardiola exerted immense pressure on the ball, so that the amount of possession ceded to their opponents was minimal. Wenger never concentrated on defensive strategies and the spanish team that springs to mind was the Real Madrid team of the late 90's/early part of this decade, who basically won because they scored more than the opposition. Defensively they were quite poor considering the number of gifted players on show. Good players assembled do not guarantee good results, teams or total football for that matter, which is where you confuse me. This is the befuddled thinking of billionaire owners like Abromovich who think that by buying the best players in the world, he can have the most attractive football with results to match. At the end of it all, it is down to a great coach, which Arsene Wenger is, only he does far too much at the club and therefore is a victim of his own micro-management. As for winning the PL? Not with the squad as it stands. We need another Striker to give Giroud a break and another Centre Back who is very agile. Combine that with a world class right back and we are sorted in my view, so January transfer window must be active!

  35. John Gooner

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:24 #41265

    You know how we get the media off our back... win something!!

  36. CanadaGooner

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:19 #41264

    @ Rocky RIP - absolutely. And I have written some articles in the past on the whole pundit thing. There isnt much to it other than £££££: to have a glamorous league, where people (including the pundits) make millions, you need clubs to keep spending big (so that agents can make money, glossy magazines get stories to sell, TV makes money - and as such, the pundits get paid more); in such systems, having someone like Wenger preaching prudence and buying second-rate players from the french league isnt what those folks want to see. As such, Wenger and Arsenal are seen as a threat. Arsenal's failure helps to justify the big spending arrangement and pundits make more money. They dont want to see an austere measure work; as it could lead to massive ramifications. Fortunately for the pundits, Wenger is indeed wrong (as so has the last 8 years proved): you need to compete. To compete (for trophies), you need your players to see that they can compete; for them to see that, they need to see at least one major signing each season (which is the boost we've got from signing Ozil this summer). What is extremely sad, is where football has got to these days, where such pundits CANNOT even give credit where it's due (and praise guys like Ramsey, for what he's done so far this season) for fear of being seen to applaud the Wenger no-spend theory, which they all hate so much, and want to see us fail. It's all BIG MONEY matters folks

  37. Unchives

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:14 #41263

    The big test is @ Old Trafford. No matter how well we play there, we seemed to end up at the end of a bad result, usually with the help of the ref (Mike MANC Riley comes to mind). We had a similar situation some years ago, going to Old Trafford with an 8 point lead, needing a draw as a minimum, or extending our lead to 11 points......we failed and let the Mancs back in. Will it be same old Arsenal or can we finally break that old Trafford jinx. Who will the ref be? Dont go over-board with sweeping statements, including Wenger's performance, as everything can change so quickly.

  38. Confused

    Nov 04, 2013, 13:11 #41262

    Don't understand how you think Wenger can claim copyright on any of your six components, as what you're describing is simply good football. Haven't Barcelona been playing this way for the past few years, and so many other great teams down the decades? Maybe Guardiola should publicly thank Wenger for his part in Barca's success. And not sure how 'Wengerball' is a variant on 'total football' as the latter was simply coaching every outfield player to be able to play in every position. I see no connection apart from the obvious fact that good players tend to make good teams.

  39. David

    Nov 04, 2013, 12:56 #41260

    CanadaGooner - completely agree with your sentiments; however, Arsenal have flattered to decieve before in the last 8 years - 2007/8 being a prime example. Liverpool playing Arsenal was a bigger test of Liverpool's credentials, in the same way as the big test for Arsenal will be the performance at OT. Beating the top 2/3 has been our problem for a long time, and as well as Liverpool have started, the MOTD pundits are right that they are playing above themselves. All that Arsenal have proven so far is that they should comfortably finish in the top 3/4 - rather than struggling to do so in the way that they have for the last two years. If we get a convincing draw/win at OT, then I'll jump on the bandwaggon.

  40. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 04, 2013, 12:47 #41258

    Wenger ball? total football? the tippy tappy going somewhere with an end product certainly looked good on Saturday night great to watch even on the telly, but lets not get carried away as a lot of Arsenal fans have a habit of doing at every opportunity. As great as it was seeing the scousers been brought back down to earth lets wait and see if it continues especially in games that aren't so open, and against teams who won't give us as much space to do it, who will get their tactics better than Rogers and co and won't allow us, then we'll see if the tippy tappy going nowhere is consigned to where it belongs.

  41. Westlower

    Nov 04, 2013, 12:43 #41257

    The media have always glorified Man U and put down any team who challenged their supremacy. Fergie got away with murder because of it. AFC have to be better than Man U to win the PL because we don't get the refs favouring us with the major decisions in a game. Does anybody believe Villa would have been awarded two penalties at OT? It simply doesn't happen to the Mancs. Refs decisions going their way must be worth 15 points a season. Badarse, how many times have you listened Joan sing Joe Hill & The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down?

  42. Rocky RIP

    Nov 04, 2013, 12:27 #41256

    @Canada - people in the media underrating Arsenal goes back years before the PL was formed. People just don't ever seem to rate our chances. Anfield '89 is just one example, 'you haven't got a prayer Arsenal' was the massive newspaper headline. People have talked of Liverpool as 'genuine title contenders'. Swap everything about Arsenal with Liverpool this season and the BBC would be expecting big things of Liverpool. Season after season people have predicted Arsenal to not only struggle to make the top 4, but to finish 6th 7th or 8th. It's happened every year since 2005/6. Google it if you don't believe me. I don't know what happens in the Summer break (maybe it's us selling our best players!), but before the season starts people seem to have lower expectations when it comes to Arsenal. If you take the average, consensus vote or predicted position for Arsenal across the majority of pundits and fans, Arsenal have finished one or two places higher every season and Liverpool and Tottenham one or two places lower. They rarely if ever predict us to win it, then we don't, as happens with other clubs. We seem to have to consistently prove the doubters wrong, which is far more satisfying when we do.

  43. Bobby

    Nov 04, 2013, 12:22 #41255

    So why when we let the Flaminator go did we not replace him until he returned this summer to replace himself.Denilson and Song were never good enough or disciplined enough to play the DM role?Its been 5 wasted years.And Wenger has said it himself he had no intention of signing Flaminator when he first came to train with us.So it begs the question would we have signed a DM if we hadnt have signed the Flaminator.It has also helped that Rambo has been played in his right position not stuck out on the wing.Wenger deserves praise for this season so far but he deserves stick for the last 5 wasted years when the back 4 had no protection.When you play the way we do you need an out and out disciplined DM.It allows Ozil Rambo and Cazorla to get forward without worrying about defending.To me the Flaminator was the most important signing of this summer not Ozil

  44. Vradar

    Nov 04, 2013, 12:08 #41254

    Still don't think we will win the title though it is our best chance and I hope I'm proven wrong. We are really gambling on Giroud staying fit as we've no hope with Bender in the team as we saw against Chelski in the cup and I don't see us beating Chelsea home or away especially since we've never beaten chelsea under Mourinho and will struggle against Man City. Wenger finally took a step forward this year in buying Ozil and Flamini but people are getting ahead of themselves, might want to wait till we have played the big three before we start getting our hopes up.

  45. CanadaGooner

    Nov 04, 2013, 11:52 #41253

    Morning Badarse, fair comments. Ron - u can see where you're coming from; but to say a team that's 5 points clear, with a quarter of the season gone cant win it, is being very unreasonable (and I mean those tv pundits, not you). If Fergie was still at Man Utd I'd have said, lets wait till March. But right now, if Stoke hadnt let their lead go, we'll be talking about Moyes getting the sack. Chelsea and Citeh have already shown they are not invincible; Spurs and Liverpool are contenders for top 4 only. So, it is early days (and I dont have an issue with people saying that), but to say we cant or wont win it, is a tad silly. As for you (James); if you know anything about football (and you probably do), you'll know there's nothing to celebrate just yet; unless all you hope for is a few wins here and there. Folks like myself have not been criticizing Wenger for not winning, we have been criticizing him for not winning a trophy in 8 years and still being in a job/for being so obstinate! So, coming on here and feeling smug after each win (as if we didnt win a single match last season) is bizarre. If at the end of the season we win a trophy, feel free to come and act smug on here, and you wont hear me criticizing that.

  46. BADARSE

    Nov 04, 2013, 11:24 #41252

    Firstly morning again Canada, and to you and Ron. I realised many moons ago that there is no deep satisfaction or peace of mind to be gained from assessing who/what/when was the 'best'. It gave me a certain unease to toy with players, goals, and eras. I enjoy, no love, banter and discussion of these subjects but still find it disquieting. I opted to withdraw from naming my personal best of anything. I still have views I offer for comment, but have long realised that too many factors, each with a multitude of facets, makes a deliberation virtually impossible. Then it becomes a way of couching your view, i.e. I think Bergy was the most visionary player I ever saw. I can then claim, I think McLintock was the greatest footballer ever. Just a subtle difference, both up for debate, but they kind of work in my head. In my world I would say that whilst not disagreeing with a choice I would not altogether agree, but the other's choice was a worthy one. Going deep is too fractious when it is a personal thing. Someone said at a dinner party recently Whitney Houston had the best voice and couldn't be argued with. I did, and offered Joan Baez. Now I know I'm right on that one! ha ha.

  47. James

    Nov 04, 2013, 11:20 #41251

    Where are all the WOB's today, just a few half wobs in Ron and Canada. Wenger's showing what a genius he is by not listening to you football experts, you who are so in the know about everything Arsenal.Ramsey would have been out the door and we'd have David Moyes as our manager and would probably be playing like Tottenham yawn yawn if the grumblers had their way.

  48. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 11:06 #41250

    CG. morning matey. I actually thought Kilbane was right mate. I dont reckon Arsenal can win the title. Squad is just too thin. Theyre not biased toweards City and Chels, theyre just realistic mate. On the goal, comparing the two goals is impossible. Jacks was v a team and defence that went AWOL though was excellent in its execution and craetivity while the Fulham goal was brilliant i its execution of a volley on the move and at an angle, though a lot of luck was needed for it to angle in as it did. Both brilliant, but I preferred the Fulham goal to be honest.He ll maybe never hit a ball like that ever again in his career, whereas we ll score a few more goals like Jacks.

  49. Westlower

    Nov 04, 2013, 11:04 #41249

    Savage, Spot on! The potential is turning into fulfillment. Happily, there is still improvement to come when missing players return. Back in the 60's Bob Dylan summed it up wisely, "the slow one now, will later be fast".

  50. Ron

    Nov 04, 2013, 10:51 #41248

    A very good result on Saturday. Wenger ball as you call it wont win titles consistently or perhaps at all in the PL. It cals for an absolute top level of passing and interplay EVERY week (which cant happen) and wont consistently destroy better tactically briefed teams. A combo of our type of play with pragmatic, sometimes muscular football is needed and lets admit it, some long ball, scuffler type play has it uses as well. Its our failure and Wengers failure to be pragmatic, preferring his chosen philosophy that has held us back in the last 8 years, which is strange as this has been a period where its not been possible to buy the finely tuned intelligent footballers that Wenger ball so much depends upon. 2003/4 wasnt a team that played like todays team. It had muscle, power, cynicism, width as well as the ability to pass and move the ball at great speed plus we had the ability to shoot at will accurately. I dont believe todays team gets even close in any of its attributes.

  51. CanadaGooner

    Nov 04, 2013, 10:43 #41247

    Well, the pundits (particularly those on Match of the Day) are not convinced. I could only watch in anger last night as that gap-tooth idiot (Kevin Kilbane) grinned from ear to ear as he stated Arsenal wont win the league. Fortunately, John Hartson was on last night. For Kilbane to say the Wilshere goal (that made football look so simple) isnt worthy of goal of the month, when 50% viewers voted it the goal of the month, just goes on to undeline what Rocky RIP said in his last post. I dont see this as anti-arsenal, but it really is bizarre: if that goal was scored by chelsea or man city, Kilbane will want it voted goal of the century! But Arsenal are victims of our own circumstances, when we've gone 8 years without a trophy because our manager got so pig-headed. We are where we are. If the question was: can a team like Liverpool or Spurs who have NEVER won a premirship title, win it; I can see why anyone would say NO. But for a team like Arsenal, who have already won the title 3 times in the premier league era; how best to win it after 9 years, than to try to open up a sizeable gap at the top? We are making the right noises right now, and if the gap can go up to 8 or 9 points and remain so in January, then I think we could well win the league this year. I am not entirely sure why the Match of the Day cast are so hell-bent on seeing chelsea or man city win the premiership

  52. Savage

    Nov 04, 2013, 10:12 #41246

    It's not about potential any more. It's all about consistency. Do it every game and we'll win everything.

  53. Bard

    Nov 04, 2013, 9:45 #41244

    You are quite right Rocky, Wenger alone is responsible. The interesting question is why he's only just realised we need a DM, having decided post Gilberto that we could do without one, Song was never one. I also remember him saying he wasn't going to sign Flamini. So rather like the signing of Ozil it's all been a bit haphazard and chaotic. Having found himself with a half decent side he now has to show us that he's still got it. I remain unconvinced.

  54. kilimo

    Nov 04, 2013, 9:23 #41242

    It is called classic football.Expect more from Wenger.