Arsene Wenger and the transfer window

Will it all end in tears?



Arsene Wenger and the transfer window


Ed’s note – This piece was submitted in early September, not used at the time, but with Arsenal flying high in the Premier League, it seems an apt time to run it.

The church of Arsene Wenger will have lost millions of followers at precisely 6pm last Tuesday evening. But no matter how tempted you are to blow the miniscule amount of dust off your robe when results inevitably improve over the coming weeks and months, do not do it because it is time to start remembering Wenger's transfer-window faults and adopt a long-term view.

Come December, we are going to be looking forward to the second half of the season rather than still dwelling on what happened at the start of it. Not that we are going to literally forget the shambolic transfer window, in which we were the only club in Europe's top five divisions not to add an outfield player, but fans will be far less angry about it. Why? Because we will come out the other side of this crisis swinging. This is what Wenger is brilliant at. As sure as Karim Benzema and Edinson Cavani score will 60 goals between them this season, Arsenal will bounce back from this. In the short term, at least.

Initially, the team will benefit from the faith afforded them by the manager. They will not hang him out to dry and, actually, do not be surprised to see us within striking distance of the Premier League leaders by, say, December. After all, we are the third-best team in England, and the FA Cup winners. Despite this, Wenger's reprehensible attitude in the transfer market most probably caused you to throw the baby out with the bathwater and predict nothing but dark days ahead this season. And then it is suddenly 1-0 Wenger when he and his players greatly defy these pessimistic expectations. Let the forgiveness commence. Not this time.

Here is the important bit: no matter how good things appear to be, do not forget what happened here this summer. Because regardless how good our results will be for the next few months, the second half of the season will be nowhere near as fruitful and that is because we will be forced to dig into the layer of mediocrity hiding beneath an already-suspect first XI.

Do not forget the fact that we didn't sign a striker. Do not forget the fact we extended Mikel Arteta's contract rather than replacing him. Do not forget the fact we had money and lots of it. And definitely do not forget the fact that Wenger knew Danny Welbeck wasn't going to be available until Christmas and still proceeded to keep the wallet closed.

Do not forget these things because those shameful acts will seem a lot more forgivable in the coming months. They will. That's what Wenger does - he makes us forget. He is an animate representation of the neutralizer from Men in Black. Karim who?

There are only two ways that Wenger can get away with what he did - or did not do - in the transfer market: if he a) wins the Premier League or b) wins the Champions League. They are the only two scenarios in which this man should be allowed to preside over another summer transfer window. Anything less and it is time to call it a day. Plenty of his followers will most definitely gravitate back to a pro-Wenger stance shortly, but we will never win another league until under him and do not forget why.


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96
comments

  1. mbg

    Nov 06, 2015, 13:04 #78778

    Ozzie, yes mate you have a point, you'd like to think the players would want to make up for Wednesday, some of them anyway, but I wouldn't bet on it either, it'll not come as a surprise if they just go through the motions.

  2. Ozzie

    Nov 06, 2015, 3:46 #78750

    MGB, I was referring to several of the under performed players. The less said about the manager the better ;) Ron, glad to hear mate. If you can, I highly recommend the train - 'Indian pacific' Sydney-Perth, a great experience and meet the locals. Safe journey and enjoy your contributions on here...

  3. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 18:13 #78709

    Mark, spot on, just when you thought you'd heard it all, there is debate there has been for years, and anyway what would/is there be/to debate, the embarrassments and humiliations and everything that went with them over the years speak for themselves, but as we all know as far as some are concerned they never happened. You couldn't make it up.

  4. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 17:40 #78706

    Ozzie, wounded pride mate ? not a fooking chance, any other manager with the proper players yes ? but not this old past it fraud,he has no pride in him and it has rubbed off onto his little pansies, (the only pride they have is in their appearance) as I've already said absolutely nothing will have been taken or learned from this, it's just another blip to him and his followers, it will be the same on Sunday with last night swept under the carpet (not by a lot of others though)with the same boring tippy tappy crap and we might be to strong for the spuds and we'll be off again, until the next time of course because as we all know there's always a next time with this old past it fraud. wenger out.

  5. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 05, 2015, 13:19 #78677

    Thanks Ron : I think we both get was is going on in football today and we and many others on this site are trying, in vain, to stem the flow of bullsh*t that passes for club policy today. get your point about the Spuds game - there is certainly plenty left in the tanks of our players to put in a proper shift for the weekend festival!

  6. Ron

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:55 #78655

    Morning Ozzie - im coming out to Sydney in June!!. So looking fwd to actually getting to Australia at last. Going to try and get across to Perth too, subject to costs of flights.

  7. Ozzie

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:31 #78651

    Cyril, yes, I live in the wide expanses of the bush 190kms from Melbourne - starry skies, clean air, wineries, simple folk and I'd be lost without my satellite dish. Re the Gohonzon perhaps the club could supply prayer mats to the fans? Imagine all that collective positive energy charging the atmosphere before a game. Maybe could use it to oust Wenger? Now keep up the humour, seems to be sadly lacking in these serious times. COYG

  8. Ron

    Nov 05, 2015, 11:30 #78650

    SKG - Youre the contributor to this site that i have the utmost respect for and your post there 83242 just reinforced that as it is so very well opined and crafted. Echoes my opinion totally on the so called top level football in this Country. Vardy (his team too impart an honesty and endeavour not seen for many years in the bloated and superficial PL - i do love Claudio and always did!) is indeed a beacon in a sea of mediocrity that is the PL this season and in fact for some seasons past. I thought Manu Petitt hit a nail on the head last night that Wenger and AFC wont be comfortable with, but bit a big 'up' to him for saying it when he declared that Arsenal are 'a team that lacks character'. Its been obvious for years, though very few ex pros (Keane apart) actually say it. Lets hope that last nights shambles reaps a reward v Tottenham shall we.

  9. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 10:32 #78646

    Just for the sake of perspective Mark - only Real and AC Milan has a better CL record than Bayern.

  10. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 10:01 #78641

    I didn't make an argument at all Mark I simply gave some data on the financial and sporting dominance of Bayern. Even so, if as the third highest revenue generating club in world football Bayern's success in Europe is still limited then in all probability those clubs with lesser resources are likely to be even more constrained. Other than that it's a knockout competition and with the luck of the draw and the bounce of the ball fortune may exceptionally favour a club with fewer resources from time to time. Despite the Bunbdesliga model you refer to there is still a much wider financial gap, though at least it is on a self sustaining basis, than there is between the top 6 PL clubs.

  11. jb

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:25 #78634

    Wengers going nowhere soon unfortunately and the players are not afraid of him. They might be afraid of their wages being stopped so surely there should be a clause in contracts that wages are performance related. Most players are mercenaries now, no loyalty, no passion for the club and certainly no bravery. If this was the case some of those players would owe the club money. Imagine Fergusons players going into a dressing room after getting a hiding like that!

  12. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:11 #78632

    Ron : The Championship is really now the English Premier League, I know it lacks the "skills & class" of the players in the PL but ethically it is far more straight and honest than the our so called top league. The PL now is a collection of players sourced by the high profile agents who are paid by big corporation backers, for me the only bright spot this season has been the form of Vardy, a player who has come through the lower leagues. It is great to watch him bang in goals against supposed superior opposition. The one hope I muster is that with kids now having to be correctly coached and trained it may lead to a generation of good technical players that will be able to salvage some international pride. Performances like last night and the dozens of dead rubber matches that take place under the banner of the CL will destroy football in the long term. The CL has to go back to knock out football.

  13. Westlower

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:11 #78631

    Regrets, I've had a few but then again too few to mention. Why, oh why didn't we play our normal game instead of our timid attempt at parking the bus. We're a front foot team & during spells in the 2nd half gave them something to think about & should have scored at least 3 goals. What's happened to Santi's finishing? We don't have the players to sit deep against a quality team. Our strength is going forwards, so continue with plan A. We got away with plan B at the Emirates but we had Theo's pace as the out ball. Even then BM had 22 attempts on our goal and were never going to miss some of their opportunities last night. BFG & Gabriel have barely played together & it was a mismatch up against Levendowski & Muller. The wingers ripped our full backs apart, as they did at the Emirates. Alexis & Campbell are not at their best tracking back helping the FB's, it's the Hazard syndrome. Keep them attacking & make the other teams wingers track back instead. We were well beaten by a class team & only Ozil would get in their side.

  14. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 05, 2015, 9:08 #78630

    Amos- my point is Bayern have not dominated Europe. Your arguament was based around Europe as you compared Arsenal against Bayern in a Euro competition. We may have actually represented our country more than Bayern have over the last 20 years. Bayern's model has not led to continual success in Europe so to suggest otherwise is not backed up by fact. If we look domestically no English club is working on a Bayern model so do not see where that leads us. In Germany most if not all clubs work on the Bayern model so having the council own your ground simply makes you like the others. Domestic dominance in Germany will have other factors to consider as well.

  15. SMITHY

    Nov 05, 2015, 8:48 #78629

    I see john cross gave Campbell a 3, debuchy a 4, per a 5 and Gabriel a 5 in player . I think he is being generous, I would have given a combined total of 4, each player only being given a one. Monreal did ok considering he had no one in front of him.

  16. Moscow gooner

    Nov 05, 2015, 8:35 #78628

    Amos - you said the Allianz Arena was 'state funded': not true. The Bavarian government funded the transport infrastructure - Bayern funded the stadium itself. There is no logical reason why a club based in Europe's richest city, operating out of a 60,000 capacity stadium with the highest ticket prices in world football, should not be able to compete (over the medium to long term) with Bayern in its Bavarian backwater. Indeed didn't Ivan say two years ago that that would now be the case - stadium debt facing gone? Instead we sit on a 200 million pound war chest, and pay Kroenke 3 million quid a year for his sage advice on how to operate profitable sports franchises without actually winning anything....

  17. GTG

    Nov 05, 2015, 8:19 #78627

    I really don't see a problem with publishing this now at all. I think it was exactly the time to publish it because in all likelyhood, what the author has written is exactly what will happen. For me though, I appreciate that the "world class" striker we crave was not available and as far as im concerned there are enough goals in this team to win us the league provided we have a defensive record similar to what we've managed so far. Where there is no excuse was the decision not to strengthen the defensive midfield area. There were plenty of players available such as Kondogbia in this area and Wenger did nothing except give Arteta a new deal. That is unacceptable and it WILL cost us as hes already out injured anyway. This brings me nicely on to my next point where Wengers inactivity will also cost us - the injuries have started to come thich and fast now and there isn't a gooner out there that can call this bad luck anymore because it happens every single season. Wenger knows as long as he persists with the same medical staff and methods this will happen so either change it or buy more players. I hope im wrong but I fear those will be the reasons we dont win the league this year.

  18. Amos

    Nov 05, 2015, 8:13 #78626

    Bayern has dominated the Bundesliga for years Mark. It's effectively a one horse race. Sometimes when that one horse gets a bit complacent or puts on a bit of weight another horse might win but it's rarely the same horse, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Stutgaart maybe - whoever has the best crop of young players at the time until they invariably end up having to sell the best of them to Bayern. That's why over the last 20 years or so Bayern have won 13 of the 20 titles with Dortmund the next most successful with 4. Bayern's revenues are the 3rd highest in world football almost double that of the next ranked German club Dortmund. There are 4 PL clubs closer to the top PL earner than between the top and 2nd revenue earning German clubs. I hope that perspective is of some help.

  19. Badarse

    Nov 05, 2015, 8:11 #78625

    Morning munching, Munchen, munchers-got a packet for Ron, or did his Kit-Kat turn up, as my trousers did? My post 83079 kind of said it for me last night. We played some good stuff-in the second half particularly. They were dominant though for long periods-what a good side. After the second goal I realised it was goodnight so wanted no injuries and the score became almost irrelevant, never quite so, but almost. I still think the team could be good enough to knock over the Sours despite last night. I see you have had your medication Bard, good for you, jeff and mbg are queuing outside Boots, standing in the rain, sharing a brolly, Hoddle and Waddle wellies on, plus damp and soggy grey wooly socks and sandals-all is well. Exeter is misfiring all over the place, a bit like a Catherine wheel which won't spin, and Mark of Aylesbury is debating with the 'man in the mirror'. All is well in Wonderland; this way to the Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

  20. smithy

    Nov 05, 2015, 7:43 #78624

    Its time the fans moved their anger and protests away from Arsene as we have been down that road and nothing happens. We need to focus on the joint villans of the piece- the Americans. Pressure must be placed on kronke and Ivan, they must be made to feel uncomfortable by mass fans protests. Nothing will change until these armchair and cigar merchants start to feel twitchy. They are at the moment totally unaccountable- the board must start to feel pressure. I not focusing on last night, Bayern are a good side, but Sheffield Wednesday and similar performances are not acceptable.

  21. Young Mr Grace

    Nov 05, 2015, 7:35 #78623

    You've all done very well!

  22. Barx

    Nov 05, 2015, 7:35 #78622

    Kos and Hector out of Sundays game. I cant believe how unlucky we have been with injuries this last 10 years

  23. Mark From Aylesbury

    Nov 05, 2015, 7:23 #78621

    Amos - you are going down the route of looking at pure accountancy to argue a fixed outcome. A chap used to come on here spouting stats. Problem was Klopps Dortmund didn't fit it. Then the unlamented Clockender some aesthetic Wenger lover who enjoyed us losing if we played pretty football came out with the same. 1st bit of logic all German clubs are based on the same model therefore if this gave signicant advantage then Germany would have dominated for years. In fact bar the last few they have been rather absent. Only one top 5 club did not buy an outfield player - that is us. If you think Wenger is so special like some on here , he hasn't ever delivered in Europe. Which is why the myth of Real wanting Wenger and only his loyalty kept him here is utter garbage. Never was going to happen.

  24. Bard

    Nov 05, 2015, 7:17 #78620

    Despite the pain I enjoyed watching Bayern. If it was thrown thats good news by me.We werent going anywhere in this competition. Bring on the Sours.

  25. Mathew

    Nov 05, 2015, 6:18 #78619

    Less said the better ! Shane, try something new mate...this is old skool stuff and everyone knows that we don't have squad depth and we will falter sooner or later. December will turn the tides and if you think the players returning from injury will boost us then think again. Debuchy is a classic example

  26. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 05, 2015, 5:39 #78618

    Badarse - no you are wrong! There is debate and it has extended from the web into the press which is why the Standard have been critical, daily Mail have run stories etc. pundits have got critical as well. I highly suspect he will stay 2 years but there is still debate. Let's just enjoy the ride yeahhhhh!!

  27. Cyril

    Nov 05, 2015, 5:25 #78617

    G'day Ozzie, I assume you are in Aussie. I like the cut of your jib with the Tibetan mantra. I was gonna have a moan, but reading up on the meaning of this saying, it talks about compassion. That will do it to for me. In fact, I think we should install a Gohonzon down at the Emirates and have it the ready for the masses to kneel and chant at all grade A games and against any team who we feel will remotely give us a game. "Keep the score low, renge kyo" and repeat for ten minutes or ofcourse until a steward comes over and tells us to sit down, put the bell away and stop making such a racket.. Booooiing!!!

  28. Ozzie

    Nov 05, 2015, 4:35 #78616

    G'day fellow Gooners! It was no surprise, was it? I'm only disappointed AW didn't rest more players and treat this crap comp for what it is - a media circus with it's own f...g hymn! Om mani padme hum. Now he has put pressure on an over worked team to perform in what matters most to the majority of us - the PL title. Perhaps a little wounded pride might sting the team into action and help lift us over the line against our friendly neighbours this weekend? (Bugger the American spellcheck.) If Wenger was prepared to take risks he would have gambled on resting more top players and going by this result would have been no worse off. If Wenger was prepared to take risks, would have thrown a lot more money to get a keen Suarez to the club (going by what Barcelona paid for him it wouldn't have been a risk anyway.) If Wenger was prepared to take a risk Bale would be plying his trade at the club and was available when his type was sorely needed. I believe the home crowd will sneak us across the line this weekend 3-2 to the Gooners. Om mani padme hum....

  29. Danny

    Nov 05, 2015, 1:12 #78615

    As expected we were crap. No fight! Wenger has to go.

  30. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 0:50 #78613

    I guess a few AKB's took a wrong turning on their way home from the wake, obviously the bar was open.

  31. mbg

    Nov 05, 2015, 0:27 #78612

    Exeter, good post, but not very revealing at all mate, we expect nothing else, humiliations and embarrassments and record defeats mean nothing to the AKB's and wengerite luvvies, they'd be the same even if their messiah got us relegated such is their devotion to Lord arsene, God help us. wenger out.

  32. Exeter Gunner

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:41 #78611

    AKB comments at time like this are very revealing. Not really too bothered about the result, shrug it off with a 'disappointing' or a 'my team did as well as could be expected' after a record European defeat. No, the big concern remains those questioning the manager. 'There is no debate' is laughably transparent stuff. Might as well shriek 'Shut up, shut up, stop criticising Mr Wenger!', guys.

  33. Roy

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:39 #78610

    Nick T - You've hit the nail absolutely on the head. Wengers time is up and in reality has been for some time. There is no common sense answer to the questions that you have posed. All will be well again in certain quarters if we beat the Spuds on Sunday and so on and on it goes, the same old same old, no matter how many reality checks we get. Also, the article would be spot on, no matter what time of the season it was put out - there are some truths that are inescapable. This includes the fact that we will do nothing more than stagnate under the present regime, and anyone who believes otherwise is sadly deluded. Just how much evidence and groundhog days do you need FFS ?? A face - saving victory or 5 - 6 game unbeaten run exactly when needed does NOT make up for incompetent management that leads to no real progress in the long term. PL or CL ? Yeah, right.

  34. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:29 #78609

    Not that I'm putting myself into an AKB bracket Gooner89- I don't think he knows best - more than most maybe but not all - but to try to answer your question, possibly in the mistaken belief that you were genuinely looking for one, as to why Arsenal despite higher season ticket prices and TV revenues don't compete on an entirely level financial basis with Bayern - it's partly because their stadium is state funded and their total revenues are still about £100m each year more than ours. Hope that's of help.

  35. Badarse

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:25 #78608

    No Mark, Amos is totally correct I am afraid-there is no debate about Wenger going. There are just a number of posters here saying he should, but in much more colourful terms, and a lot of those have varying reasons why. On the other side there are those like myself who don't go to the ugly bug ball, but whenever I feel the necessity I will repel the narrow approach of those clamouring for change. It is fruitless as any number of dissenters will not affect the board, the manager or the team. I prefer to keep my powder dry-I have some of jeff and mbg's talc, and who wants damp talc? Bard goes all over the place like a squib on fireworks night, and that's a damp one! For younger ones a squib was a firework that shot all over the floor, crackling and spitting...then just went out. Damper ones did a little less. We are disgraceful because we had a weak team at Sheffield, er, no hang on we want to throw the game in Germany so that we can take on the Sours with a reasonable side, er, no hang on, it's disgraceful we threw the game in Germany. Then from the orchestra pit we have jeff constantly referring to all things Arsenal as 'them', 'his', but no possessive pronouns in sight-Sour! Up in the 'gods' we have mbg chuntering to nobody in particular about eccles-iastical min! Bayern are a wonderful side, certainly a cut above my team, but my team did as well as could be expected. No griping about nonsense like we should have bought a striker in the summer-we would have just had an extra man available tonight, providing he wasn't injured. We very nearly got straight back in the game with a marvellous move. We nearly scored on a few other occasions too. A couple of soft goals and it appears like a landslide, but remember Ali and the, 'rope a dope'. Giroud scored a fabulous goal so I must check out the pedigree of the cart horses in N.Ireland...Barney can you help with this one. Debate is in de bin! Goodnight, and may mbg's god go with you. Good old Arsenal.

  36. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:22 #78607

    Gooner 89, you can be dammed sure of that, they'll look and search high an low, if their not doing it as we speak they'll be up bright and early in the morning, and come up with something no matter how minute or laughable and use it with vigour, and if they can't they'll just regurgitate the same old, same old shyte that they've been using for the last ten years (and i'm sure we're all looking forward to that)that's if they have the balls, but the good thing about it is their fooling no one only themselves.

  37. David

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:09 #78606

    MBG, Ron you're missing the point. How can you complain about the result when Giroud has scored the goal of the season? Seeing as they're absent, doing the best AKB impression I can muster. European football gets better, English football gets worse, arsenal stay the same, and it carries the illusion of progress. We haven't looked as out of place as this since Benfica beat us in 91. Awful stuff.

  38. tick tock

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:08 #78605

    I'm off to Arseblog for some positive gloss

  39. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 04, 2015, 23:03 #78604

    Amos - glad you enjoy the ride the 8-2, 6-0's and various 5-1's must be a blast. Odd very odd. No I didn't enjoy it one bit. Anyway I'm sure the all important poll whatever whoever will show 51% in favour so let's not debate....

  40. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:58 #78603

    I guess the wake is in full swing over at AKB central command, they should be used of them by now.

  41. Martyn

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:51 #78602

    Well done for Chris Colman for defending his decisions about Aaron Ramsey. Wenger really should think twice before he makes excuses about injuries. Tonight against Bayern showed how little depth we have when so manty players are injured not because of international duty but due to something fundamentally wrong with how players are prepared at club level. I don't see too many Bayern players unavailable tonight.

  42. Gooner 89

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:49 #78601

    What a pathetic, embarrassing performance. For those who don't like us WOB ranting I suggest you stop reading now. I know the AKB's have gone back to Central Command for an emergency meeting to find yet more reasons to defend their ever hopeless and deluded manager but one of their normal mantras is we can't compete with Man City and. Chelski because of the money bankrolling them. Not a view I share but hey ho. Answer me this AKB's. We have the most expensive ST in the world and a massive tv deal. How is it then that we can't compete with a team that sells season tickets for a 100 quid, that's. ONE HUNDRED and has a TV deal a fraction of the EPL. Munich were awesome tonight and are arguably the best team in Europe and certainly in the top 3. I don't know for a fact but I guess they don't pay some of the crazy wages we do and are owned by their fans. Shame on Arsenal's owner, CE and manager. The sooner all three leave the better. Not forgetting the European powerhouse Olympiakos. Now 6 point.s in front of us and leaving us with nightmare scenario of the numpty cup. Still at AKB central command the latest defense of their almighty leader is being written as I type. And that my dear AKB's is tonight's moan. I and all the other WOB's will keep it going until the glorious day we are finally rid of the clueless one Nick

  43. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:48 #78600

    Nick T, didn't you know, the messiah knows best.

  44. Ron

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:47 #78599

    SKG - You've nailed it. Hiding to nothing there but it was thrown. Absolutely right mate. It makes me laugh how they try and pretend it wasn't though. Do they think none of us have ever played to any level? I personally think the whole group has been looked at with an 'are we that bothered this year' type of sub text to the clubs thinking. Its a reflection of modern football isnt it. A disgrace really. Its quite nice not to care really anymore (personally speaking) from a fans perspective, but these modern players must have thoughts on how careers are just so contemptuously treated with abandon? I suppose the wages gloss over it though. Its a sad 'sport' in my view these days.

  45. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:36 #78598

    Men verses mice, real proper players against second third raters, and a real proper manager against an old past it fraud.

  46. Seven Kings Gooner

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:34 #78597

    Game was thrown, pure and simple.

  47. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:19 #78596

    Obviously the old has been slipped of the coach before he could be locked in the bog, and was to fast out of the dressing room (I guess he got wind of what was planned and stood at the door for a quick getaway)so they couldn't lock TOF in the laundry basket and look what happened? wenger out.

  48. Nick T

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:17 #78595

    We were ****e, theyre the best in europe so understandably we got destroyed but couple of things I cant understand from the team selection - firstly why doesnt Koscielny start? If hes not fit then why is he on the bench? Its been confirmed he could have played so you can only assume hes being rested ahead of sunday but if thats the case why on earth leave our 3 key players at present, in coq, ozil and sanchez, on the pitch for 90 minutes when the game was finished at halftime? Bizarre

  49. Danny

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:15 #78594

    As I keep on saying, this the start of a downward spiral. Wenger is the most overrated idiot in world football. Arsenal is now the worst team defensively as we have conceded more goals then anyone in the CL. His record in Europe is so poor

  50. smithy

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:03 #78593

    Get well soon Tony Adams- we could have done with you tonight!

  51. Nick T

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:01 #78592

    Odds on the Editorial being called 'Mullered'?

  52. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 22:00 #78591

    Disappointing result for sure. There's always another game though. No there's no special debate about Wenger Mark. He's manager until at least 2017. There's plenty of noise about whether he should be manager just as there is about Mourinho, LvG and even Pellegrini among their supporters. In all probability any credible end of season poll will still show a majority in favour of Wenger remaining manager. It's a ride. Just enjoy the ride.

  53. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:58 #78590

    Bard, that's one stat you'll not hear from the wengerites on here, yes did you see the manc supporting, born in France Bayern loving referee running to the center circle with his finger in the air every time Bayern scored / my God he must have had a problem bending his finger at the end.

  54. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:45 #78589

    West Cork Frank, we can only apologise for that, I guess we're just so used to their, and their old past it managers cowardice it goes with out saying.

  55. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:41 #78588

    Amos - how did we do tonight ? Sorry spent last 10 years in a cave so suspect the brilliant Wenger is still winning all before him. No debate about Wenger. No sir! No debate at all

  56. smithy

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:40 #78587

    Lack of investment in the summer window leads to no chance when we play teams like Bayern away. Mismanagement of the squad.

  57. Bard

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:39 #78586

    Worst ever defeat in Europe. Progress for sure. All good at AKB Central command, steady as you go. The referee was a manc surely. Oh for a striker. Meanwhile in the real world how the spuds must have been loving that and what a boost its given them. No excuses a complete thrashing.

  58. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:34 #78585

    Go now you old fraud, you f*****g embarrassment.

  59. mark from aylesbury

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:11 #78584

    Amos - there is not a debate going on? your having a laugh

  60. West Cork Frank

    Nov 04, 2015, 21:01 #78583

    I posted a month ago about our players cowardice and the fact that NOBODY anywhere comments on it. Again, Mertesacker bottles it and shies away from a shot in front of our goal ! If he had stayed were he was or, shock f***** horror, tried to block the shot it wouldn't have deflected in. It wasn't a face high blaster, it would have stung for a second. Is he not paid to do all he can to help us win ?The fact that most of the team would do the same which says it all. As long as the players give it all then that's a great and essential platform to achieve anything. Surprised i'm still angry but all the crap we've had to put up with is exemplified by the above and wengers continude presence. Czech is not what he was. First goal he can see the ball coming in yet stays flat- footed, too close to the goaline, f**** the bugger didn't even dive ! Above article soo true, excellent. Don't like 10th level Charlie George Orwell but i'm sticking with my club. I was Arsenal before wenger/ kroenke and will still be Highbury Gunner when they go.

  61. carlos

    Nov 04, 2015, 19:45 #78582

    Anyone for Benzema?

  62. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 18:22 #78581

    jw, 20 years time ? 20 days mate, or even now, although some think (and celebrate)qualifying for it is as good as winning it but as we all know it's not, as you say in reality people only remember winners (something Lord arsene is not)and those who win it not the losers, yes it's a results game and a result is winning whether some like it or not.

  63. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 18:11 #78580

    I haven't really joined the great Wenger debate Mark. There isn't really one going on. As I pointed out earlier for the present all the credible end of season opinion polls, even in the barren period, have always been in favour of him staying. Hence he's the manager until at least 2017. As and when he goes I'd be happy to join in any debate as to who takes over but it's academic at this stage. Last years favourites have tended to fade and this year's will possibly also have changed by the time we get to 2017. Let's take a look at the runners when we know who they are in 2017 - if indeed there's a contest then.

  64. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 17:58 #78579

    Lets hope some of the senior pros take it upon themselves to run the show tonight and we might be in with a chance leave it to TOF and we're f****d for sure, a goos start would be to lock him in the boot of the coach or the luxury bog, or if he manages to get past them, in the laundry basket in the dressing room with the more pairs of soiled Calvin Kleins the better, and then let him out just in time to take all the glory which no doubt he would.

  65. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 04, 2015, 17:57 #78578

    Amos - congratulations you have joined the great Wenger debate. Most successful manager in history (previous Highbury history) totally mediocre (Emirates) , last two seasons, some sort of redemption? If we don't win the premiership this year the whole management has badly missed a trick. A weakened Manure gives a club a magnificent opportunity. Add an ailing Chelsea to the mix and really Arsenal have no excuse not to be in a two horse race. Either way I now strongly suspect that he is gone in 2017. With an outside chance of his personal life leading him to PSG in 2016.

  66. jeff wright

    Nov 04, 2015, 17:43 #78577

    Amos, Wenger last 3 trophies have all been FA Cups he's won 6 in total and since 2005 the FA Cup has been his level he failed when he had his chance in Paris to win the Cup that he really craves. FA Cups have always for top club managers been a consolation prize. Other than when they are won with the league title in a double season.

  67. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 17:04 #78575

    I though originally you were talking about the 19/20 years of Wenger's tenure (so far)but I'd have to agree that 2 FACs over the last 11 years isn't that impressive and the 3 FACs that Wenger has won over that period only slightly more so. But it's all about perspective I suppose and the 2 FACS over 2 years looks a little better.

  68. Ron

    Nov 04, 2015, 16:25 #78574

    Hi B - thats always been my take on it as well. It ll never happen now though mate. Too much money in it for the cartel who dominate it isn't there. In the light of all this corruption stuff re UEFA and FIFA we can see now why the CL cow has been fattened so rapidly cant we? Noses in CL troughs and all that. At least they should have the humility to change its laughable name i think.

  69. jeff wright

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:56 #78573

    Amos,Wenger winning 2 FAC's over the last 11 years is nothing special and other AFC managers in shorter time-spans have won cups and titles. As I have said before it has been a game of two halves for Arsene with Highbury being his best one. The Emirates half of his tenure at AFC allegedly being successful depends on one accepting the excuses put forth for 9 years of it without a trophy and the worst embarrassing defeats ever suffered by ANY AFC manager in history as well.Wenger's record in Europe is poor to say the least the worst of any top club manager currently in the game and the worst of any modern AFC ones who won league titles. The constant much vaunted qualification every season for Europe is just another illusion .Di Mateo at Chelsea and Rafa at Liverpool both won the European Cup during short periods .Di Mateo in half a season ! Rafa reached two consecutive European Cup finals with Liverpool .He also won the Europey Cup with Chelsea in his caretaker manager role during half a season. 20 years from now one will be bothered about Wenger's European qualification record that always ends in failure , it's a results game and I suspect that Arsene's record in Europe is about to become worse than it already is.

  70. Badarse

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:55 #78572

    mbg give the godspell a rest mate, it's all baloney-and that's a sausage! National sausage week is upon us so sizzle away my little chipolatas. Just think on this, every Sours fan in the land would give their right arms-if they knew which one it was, because many think their left arms are alright too-just to be able to say, '...the country will be watching us play Bayern Munich tonight, in the Champions League.'

  71. Hi Berry

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:52 #78571

    Ron, wouldn't it be great for the CL to revert to the European Cup format where only the champions of each league competed. There's an incentive to win the PL if ever there was rather than coast in as runners up.

  72. Ron

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:51 #78570

    Westie - Only and english observer would ever recognise Wilshere as 'class'. He isnt. Hes at best an honest grafter. Sadly hes a perma crock. Clubs are gradually questioning whether its worth keeping these Diaby type crocks on long term. Liverpool are questioning the retention of Sturridge now bit by bit. A Coach simply cant rely on them. Youve waited 7 yrs to see JW perform consistently. In my view hes the new Rosicky and its not going to happen. Its made worse by the daft suicidal way he plays. He was on the TV recently saying hes not going to change. Sadly, he seems hes thick as a brick and its doubtful even the best coaching will change his mindset so the self induced injuries will follow. They ought to get him some where like fit, get him a run of games if they can and then sell him to some other Club for top whack who thinks they can change him and do better than the Arse have done. Hes ever going to be a liability it looks like and hes really not that good.

  73. Barnaby

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:44 #78569

    Bellerin is out for the Bayern game, now we have absolutely noone on the bench Apart from Joel Campbell, we will have to sit back on our goal line I expect

  74. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:39 #78568

    Most broadly supportive of Wenger don't see him as a messianic figure at all. Just a normal mortal with all the quirks, foibles, idiosyncrasies, positive and negative qualities of a human. That he makes wrong calls and many right calls shouldn't be a great surprise to any one. It seems to me that those most angry with him believe he should have god like attributes and much of their anger with him takes a similar form to the disappointment some, when much younger, might have felt when they found out that Santa and the Tooth Fairy aren't real.

  75. Westlower

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:33 #78567

    Would a strike force of Falcao, Balotelli, Remy, Bony & Cuadrado won us the title?

  76. mbg

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:30 #78566

    TOF's transfer faults ? where do you start we'd be here for a year, forget them ? (and all the other humiliations and embarrassments over the years) fans on here have been predicting for years transfer window after transfer window that he'd buy nobody (of any use anyway)wand what has happened ? when his disciples have been believing the utter bollox and spin that he's been working his balls off trying to buy the best, that we're in for him, we're watching him, we're close to signing him, only for every season/window to end up the same, and still the believers hope, you have to laugh. The church of wenger find forgiveness very easy indeed such is their devotion to their old messiah, and not having much ambition also helps. No we'll never forget mate, and as far as i'm concerned and i'm not alone here the/a Premiership, or CL (I know don't laugh)will still not make a blind bit of difference it's to late. Good piece.

  77. Danny

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:28 #78565

    Wenger will be remembered as failure and fraud. His job is coach the team as best to his ability including improving the team. The money is there but he refuses to spend except take his vast wage. Who is at fault? Ownership and CEO - Giving him so much power and there is no David Dein type in the club to push him. Tonight is downward spiral for him . Bayern will piss on us

  78. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:25 #78564

    That's not really true is it jeff. I think I'm right in saying that the last 19 years has brought us more trophies than any other 19 year period in the club's history. On the basis of your argument this is the least stagnant period in the clubs 125 year plus history. Atletico had one good season snatching the bone the two big dogs were fighting over but it's rare enough to say that, by your benchmark, they have had to endure greater periods of stagnation than Arsenal has.

  79. Ron

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:16 #78563

    A sound view Bard. From the Clubs angle though, they might admit that a couple of stellar performers are the diff between top and 3rd/4th but they might also ask, whats the difference? Top position gets you nothing extra than 3rd etc so why bother?. Its this CL that's entirely to blame. I go on about the f----g CL like a cracked record i know, but its these issues and attitudes and the resulting emaciated domestic Cups that are the end result of the CL 'reward for failure' regime that's gripped football and the fans thinking. I cant stand it.

  80. jeff wright

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:02 #78562

    Teams do not win the champions league every season Amos in some domestic leagues there are clubs that dominate them Barceloa and Real though were beaten to the la liga title by the less well off Athletico Madrid and they also went close to winning the European Cup as well . Being happy with not competing for top trophies is stagnation Amos - that's what 20 years of Arsene's magic has produced !

  81. Westlower

    Nov 04, 2015, 15:01 #78561

    @Hi Berry, I wouldn't read too much into how the team performed in Jacks prolonged periods of missing games. There was a spell in 2014/15 when we lost 3 of 9 games he started versus losing 2 of 13 when he didn't start. He didn't play after the Man U game in November until the last few games in May when he scored v WBA. When he gets an interrupted run of games he'll show what a class act he is.

  82. Finsbury Joe

    Nov 04, 2015, 14:42 #78560

    There seems to be a real groundswell of opinion amongst pundits and the silent majority of fans that come monday morning, Stan, Ivan, Wenger and their minions will be viewed for what they are , a laughing stock I wouldnt be encouraging Wenger into the transfer market unless you want a Santos or Chamakh

  83. Bard

    Nov 04, 2015, 14:41 #78559

    Hi Berry; Well you would have thought that would be the prevailing logic going into the Jan window but history suggests that wont be the case. Why is anyone's guess. What does seem to be true is that Wenger is a ditherer in the transfer market. The other factor is that he would surrender the possibility of a PL rather than pay way over the odds for player who might make the difference. Dont see that changing anytime soon.

  84. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 14:35 #78558

    In that sense then winning the PL title every season is also stagnation. Football is by it's nature repetitive. Once you've won a title or a trophy it becomes history. It's a rat on a wheel whether triumphs or failures are experienced. If Gazidis is right and 97% of season tickets are renewed, and if the online groaner polls, and others like AST are right then 80% plus are content for Wenger to stay on. Whether it's because some fear someone else might do worse or others can't do better doesn't matter - the contents still have it. It's only a problem for the discontented. Everyone else is just enjoying riding the wheel.

  85. Hi Berry

    Nov 04, 2015, 14:32 #78557

    One could argue that going into the January transfer window with oodles of money in the bank now puts us in a stronger position than all of our rivals. Man City spent £100m on Sterling and de Bruyne and are only ahead of us on GD despite our mounting injuries which seem to be par for the course every season. Conversely, had we secured a top quality striker and/or a defensive midfielder might we be six points clear? A clear chicken and egg situation, the answer to which will never be resolved. On another note: is it my imagination or do the team string an impressive series of results together when Wilshire is injured and out of the selection frame? Anyone got stats to confirm or repudiate?

  86. jeff wright

    Nov 04, 2015, 14:23 #78556

    That all just looks like stagnation to me Amos.If some supporters are happy with the scenario that you depict is a matter for conjecture .Lots of people stick with the status quo out of a fear of change possibly making things worse.This doesn't mean that they are happy with things as they are but that they are prepared to accept the situation rather than take a chance on a new manager improving matters.Wenger perpetrates the illusion of competing for top honours with the constant but always disastrous champions league qualifications and by finishing 3rd or 4th in the Prem every season to do so. As I have said before Wenger is like a rat on a wheel going around and around to nowhere.No champions league next season would in my view see him gone and he wouldn't need a poll to tell him it's over. He will most likely though finish in the top 4 again although I do believe that he needs to keep the title challenge illusion going for as long as possible.Ropey cup games on Thursday nights won't help either so he will want to avoid that fate and needs at least a point tonight and two wins in the remaining games plus whatever else to do so. He's made a right old mess of things again - he just never learns from his past mistakes!

  87. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 13:50 #78555

    You're right in that there're rational explanations enough jeff but they will always be excuses to those uncomfortable with explanations. Bottom line is that it doesn't really matter which is which. Wenger will always do what he feels is right and he's not going away until summer 2017 at the earliest. In the meantime the excuses won't matter to those who see explanations and explanations won't matter to those who hear excuses and in all probability the online gooner's end of season poll will show, as it always has done, that the majority of respondents will be content for Wenger to stay on. All is as it should be really.

  88. jeff wright

    Nov 04, 2015, 13:16 #78554

    There is always some excuse as to why Wenger doesn't buy players.We do know however from the Suarez attempted signing , he publicly stated that he wanted to join us ,but money got in the way of the deal. So it's not just a case of there are no players available for Arsene. All the evidence last summer suggests that Wenger made no attempt to sign anyone else after splashing out 10m on Cech . In the CL group stage we are relying on a wing and a pray to get into the next round after our weak squad was unable to cope with Zagreb and the greeks due to players being rested. We are also yet again DUE TO THE SAME REASONS out of the LC early doors - with the usual excuses put up to justify this. In the league we still have a long way to go,or perhaps not so long, to see if a title challenge really is on . At least half a dozen sides could claim to be making one if the AKB criteria for a title tilt is that a run of results at some point in a season amounts to a title challenge. You couldn't make it up.

  89. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 13:03 #78552

    I think it is the transfer market that has changed Mark which is why Wenger's policy has had to change in the transfer market place. One of the factors is the change in player contract law following the Webster ruling introduced in 2005 and revised in 2008 which effectively meant that contracts signed after 2005 had a maximum term of 3 years however long the nominal term agreed. The impact of that was felt most from 2008 onwards which was of course when Mansour joined Abramovich in distorting the transfer market even further. Nonetheless since 2010/2011 Arsenal has spent relatively big in the market place and retains the ability to do so as and when justifiable value becomes available.

  90. Tony Evans

    Nov 04, 2015, 12:53 #78550

    The Wenger sceptics amongst us are praying the wheels do not come off, but are fully expecting them to. If it all does go t*ts up Wenger's lack of summer transfer activity (defensive midfield and up front being the big issues here) will probably be the likely cause, and yet again a title that seems there for the taking will slip through our fingers.

  91. Westlower

    Nov 04, 2015, 12:28 #78549

    This topic has already been done to death but maybe in the cold light of day Shane may reflect that results haven't gone as badly as some predicted, especially after losing the first game to WHam. Benzema appeared to be our #1 summer target, but RM's president wouldn't let him go. Similar sentiments occurred at PSG & BM, re Cavani & Lewandowski. Man U were in a similar boat being unable to buy a top striker, trying for Muller as their main target. They took a gamble on Martial that may or may not pay dividends. As they are currently on a goal drought he may not be the answer to their problems. What would Gooners have said if we'd bought Martial? Unproven, very expensive, another Frenchman, etc! It's a fact of life, oft ignored by football supporters, that you can only buy if the other club is willing to sell. Is there any point in buying in January if Welbeck is due back? Is there any point in buying another midfielder if Wilshere, Ramsey, Arteta, Ox are due back. The surplus players don't get games and as a consequence lose their form then they are most needed. Debuchy is a case in point. It takes most players half a dozen consecutive games to get back to an acceptable level of form. It's a gradual process, not a flick of a switch.

  92. Mark from Aylesbury

    Nov 04, 2015, 12:26 #78548

    The thing that perplexes me is that I will take as given that Wenger is really indecisive in the market. Simply heard this from too many sources not to have a kernel of truth. Was he always like this? No not really. Up to 2010 he was buying and selling pretty continuously and had a good rep in the market. For some reason over the following years he became far more cautious and it is just not Emirates issues. He simply stopped buying at any value.

  93. Bard

    Nov 04, 2015, 11:41 #78546

    I can see where some are coming from with this, but I dont see it as a negative agenda. Agenda's tend to have more than one item and nearly always have any other business at the end, is that right Amos ? I quite liked the post as it reminded us that we are always skating on thin ice. Our elevated position owes as much to the travails of Chelsea and Manu as it is to some resilient performances. A more compelling case might be made for what we do in the Jan window. We went into the Xmas period top 2 seasons ago and then did nothing but buy Kalstrom. The decisions that window made it chrystal clear to me that the club had no real intention of trying to win the PL.

  94. Ron

    Nov 04, 2015, 10:45 #78542

    There were quite a few of us who arent pro Wenger amongst us who predicted the Club wouldn't buy anybody in the Summer. Regurgitating the issue is a bit perplexing really? It was what it was. Personally i think the buying of players will remain a very, very limited and surgical exercise now until AW ends his contract. Neither he, nor the Club will want to load up the squad with players an incoming Coach wouldn't really want. I can see the logic in that type of thinking now to be honest.

  95. Amos

    Nov 04, 2015, 10:33 #78541

    I get it. The only forgiveness for not signing an outfield player last summer is if we win either the PL or CL because that is what would have happened if we had signed an outfield player! In fact if Wenger had signed a striker and we hadn't won either of those trophies he could be forgiven because the real objective is to sign players and empty any cash reserves. I think the decision not to publish in September was the wrong one having decided to publish now. Publishing now just seems like negative spite because things have so far gone well enough despite not signing this mythological CL or PL winner striker, and that just doesn't fit the negative agenda. So fail to win the CL or PL and the negative is proven correct. Just as it would have been for all the other 110 plus years of the club's history in which we haven't won the CL or PL titles.

  96. Far far away fan

    Nov 04, 2015, 10:07 #78539

    Why is this article being published now? Even if there is truth in what it says, can't fans be elated in this period of abundance. I'm sure there will be pitfalls (maybe even this weekend). Couldn't this article have waited till then?