Arsenal Circular 129 – Sour grapes or honest opinion from Patrick Vieira?

Former captain considers Mourinho a better manager than Wenger



Arsenal Circular 129 – Sour grapes or honest opinion from Patrick Vieira?

PV4 – Off to New York to manage Frank Lampard and co


A challenging article in today’s Times pinpoints an issue that has always featured in our thoughts about the future. It is written by Matt Dickinson and it focuses on Vieira. It is bitter-sweet. The thrust of the article is an examination of Vieira’s plans for his future as the head coach of New York City FC. It waxes eloquent – justifiably – about his playing career and speculates about how he ended up at City - and not Arsenal - where he started as an Ambassador for the Club, then coaching kids before moving to USA. Clearly the issue is why City and why not Arsenal. He answers the question “Arsenal? I’ve never been contacted by anyone to manage or get involved with the Club”. He is asked if he is disappointed and he replies “I was expecting something from them but it didn’t come.”

Vieira’s tension towards Arsenal is revealed when he is asked to choose a manager to lead his Select XI he replies “Jose”. As Dickinson says Vieira played for nine years under Wenger at Arsenal winning seven trophies leading the famous Invincibles. And yet he Vieira had only 18 months with Mourinho at Inter Milan and was sold mid-season.

The comments and the facts taken together have two possible explanations – Sour grapes because he was overlooked or Wenger got it wrong. Let’s look at both.

Sour Grapes? There is clearly tension between Wenger and Vieira as revealed when Vieira is asked if he has taken advice from Wenger. “He’s a busy man. I didn’t speak to him in quite a long time “. He then stirs matters when he gives reasons for preferring Mourinho to Wenger. “He’s the manager who had more influence on me because he was the one who impressed me most on his work ethic. He knew everything about the opposition, the strength, weakness. His detail was unbelievable, everything was so clear about what he wanted from each player”. Well you pays your money, you takes your choice. It is always possible that Vieira is speaking with complete honesty and that he genuinely believes he learned more in his 18 months at Inter-Milan than he did in his seven years at Arsenal. There is no question that Mourinho is a great coach. We may not like him and I freely confess that I don’t for very well known reasons – strutting egotist, the comments about the Reading Ambulance Brigade, the failure to apologise to Dr Carneiro, his confrontations with authority – but he has had success and Vieria might have a point. But in the context of what he perceives to be the snub from Wenger it does mean that his comments have to be seen in context. That recent comment of mine about studying the historian before you study his history has relevance here. It is more likely that Vieira is bitter about being overlooked by Wenger and this has coloured his views.

The second point is the assumption that he is managerial material – that because he was a top player he will become a top coach. History is not with Vieira. The history of football is littered with examples of players who have failed to make it as coaches. We know from our own experience at Arsenal that Jack Crayston, an England International with Arsenal in the great years of the 1930’s lasted just 18 months before being replaced by George Swindin in 1959. And then when Swindin himself stepped down in 1962 he was replaced by England’s then most capped player – Billy Wright who was replaced by Bertie Mee in 1966 because of his conspicuous failure. There are others – Nobby Stiles and Bobby Charlton tried and failed. Mark Lawrenson and Alan Shearer too. Will Neville succeed at Valencia? Will Giggs step up to be number one at United? Playing success is no guarantee of managerial success. But there is another aspect of importance – how good a player was Wenger? How good a player was Mourinho? Coaching is not a function of simple achievement on the pitch.

Others at Arsenal have apparently been overlooked – Tony Adams and Dennis Bergkamp – possibly Liam Brady. But none of them have any divine right to coach. Being a good player is just that – being a good player. It is the same with a Captain but a coach has a hundred and one more issues to consider. It is very lonely at the top. As US President Harry Truman famously said, “The Buck Stops Here”. He has to keep the squad together, blend skill and experience, make daily decisions about people’s careers, face the media, face the fans and also sleep well at night. You get my drift?

Final point – Eleven years ago today Jermaine Pennant crashed his Mercedes while driving drunk, uninsured and served a 16 month driving ban. He went to prison for 90 days. His career was littered with bad judgment, wrong decisions and ultimately under-achieved. He could have had it all if he had listened to those around him and knuckled down and resisted the temptations dangled in front of him by hangers-on. He had the talent. He let himself down.

* You can follow my tweets @arsenalcircular


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107
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  1. mbg

    Jan 25, 2016, 17:02 #82414

    Ron, yes what a charade and the biggest one of all giving wally the armband and what for ? ten years of fooking mediocrity it would make you sick. I had to Laugh at one of the commentators in the rerun/replay when it shows the German carthorse giving wally the armband before kick off when he said at least that saved him having to do it later, hilarious. wenger out.

  2. mbg

    Jan 25, 2016, 13:53 #82388

    Exeter, that's definitely it, problem solved.

  3. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jan 25, 2016, 13:50 #82385

    My table is a lying bastard! It told me we were going to be champions. Some people might think I'm odd talking to tables but apparently they never lie!

  4. mbg

    Jan 25, 2016, 13:34 #82383

    Red member, it's another case if people say/spin it enough it'll be believed (not by everybody mind)we're back where we belong now in third or maybe fourth so everything's still alright and top four is still on, so there's no need to panic we're still the third best team in the prem, I wonder is there a trophy for that.

  5. 80's Gooner

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:48 #82348

    The demise of the invisibles We didn't sign Drogba in 2002 when we had the chance We didn't sign Ronaldo in 2003, we had the first option on him We let Ya Ya Toure slip through our fingers in 2003 We should have sold Vieira to RM during the summer of 2004 & replaced him with Carrick (who was being lined up as his replacement). PV's legs had gone by then & he was the shadow of his former self the following season The mis-management of Reyes Just for the record, PV4 was the finest player I ever saw put on an Arsenal shirt

  6. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:31 #82342

    My grandson plays under 9's football, it is well organized by people with proper coaching badges(it is a junior football requirement) the captain of his team is always last week's man of the match. It is a great incentive for the kids and it makes sense to the players involved, If I play well I might be made captain - Arsene how about you trying that method, at least the crowd would understand why certain player is wearing the armband. Question for Westie "how many times was Frank, Tony or Paddy "hooked" when captain of Arsenal?

  7. theopants superstar

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:30 #82341

    Is there really so little to write about that we have to put up with this biased piece of former hero bashing in order to defend the many faults and incompetencies of Wenger? Bloody hell, we have variously had the AKB's turn on legends Wrighty, Adams and now Vieira - all because the players had the gall to say that perhaps Wenger has made mistakes / got faults and is not the all round genius that some of his (and there is a clear distinction between Arsene and Arsenal followers) followers believe. It's like they are prepared to tear the whole edifice down in defence of their long past it hero and they don't care whose reputation they slur while they do it. Is this what it has come down to? Sad and embarrassing.

  8. Ron

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:15 #82340

    The Wally getting that Skips armband shows Wengers attitude to what being a Captain needs. Theres been no leadership in that Club for yrs either from the Proff or the Skips hes deployed. Nice gestures for his 10 meaningless years speaks volumes about the mentality of the Club and moreover goes a long way to explaining why the team hardly ever wins big matches but hey, lets give him another big contract shall we. 1 shot at goal in 90 mins at home. It doesn't get much worse than that. How about a rant about about 'boring' Utd now Westie? Were you 'entertained' yesterday? You couldn't make it up. Lets hope that Leicester can win it and put the final nail in this guys long running charade.

  9. jeff wright

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:15 #82339

    The problem with the 6 games lost and you can't win the title is that mathematically it is just not true. You can lose 6 or 7 games and still win the league depending on the results of others,too many draws can be more costly than a couple of defeats in a run of games .If something is possible mathematically then it can happen. Anyway ,Leicester have some tough games coming up and I will be surprised if they come out of them unscathed .The spuds are the spuds and when was the last time that they won the league . I'm sticking with City to come out winners because I have no confidence in Wenger whatsoever,he has in my view already blown our title chances by making his usual mistakes before and during the season. Our title hopes are slowly melting away again before our eyes like Frosty The Snowman in a wintry sun. Gooner Ron ,me thinks you protest too much about league positions 'telling the truth' when they in fact change from game to game at this moment in time. You were obviously polishing the brass buttons on your Arsene's flunky's tunic when you started the nonsense with us being top of the league and all... my advice to you is to give it a rest because Leicester are not the best team in the league they just happen to have more points at the moment ,the best team in the league will be the one who has them on judgement day and it will not be Leicester! You couldn't make it up.

  10. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:09 #82338

    Given Chelsea cheat constantly and get away with it, it's amazing how poorly they're doing this season and everyone else has beaten them. Hang on, it must be that they're only allowed to cheat against Arsenal. That must be the explanation.

  11. Nick

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:06 #82337

    Viera is entitled too his opinion and many will agree with it. After yesterdays debacle where we yet again fell foul of Costas cheating and Mertersakers lack of pace, allied to the ridiculous taking off of Giroud , its hard to argue with big Patrick.We have as the majority of us knew we would started to falter under our heavy injury list , and the lack of quality competition and cover for first team places, that were still in with a big say in the title race merely shows there is no outstanding side this season, had Wenger done in the summer what those with sense knew we should do and brought in competition for defensive midfield, and strikers we could well have had this title race sown up by now, its the fault of only one man that we havnt, and if we blow this golden opportunity to win the league this season it will yet again be the fault of one man, whatever happens this must surely be the last season for Wenger, Guardiola WANTS to manage Arsenal lets give him the chance to do so !

  12. Red Member

    Jan 25, 2016, 11:04 #82336

    i still dont understand why people say we are in a title race. we are not - the club is aiming for top 4 and no more. same as it has always been.

  13. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jan 25, 2016, 10:28 #82335

    Well that's the last blinking bleeding Costa I'm going to have. They bleeding cheat with their automated frappacino's you'll never see me their again! Then again I do quite like their chocolate fingers. Oh bollocks cappuncino please!

  14. goonercolesyboy

    Jan 25, 2016, 9:58 #82334

    Arseknowsnothing you smug idiot, living in the old world still. You living in your country retreat living off past glories and now find football such a chore.

  15. Bard

    Jan 25, 2016, 9:44 #82333

    Brilliant Westie; do you think its a conspiracy ? That would be a very popular call for some on here.

  16. Mark

    Jan 25, 2016, 9:07 #82332

    As said when it comes to the key crunch moments we all know or at least 70% of us do, wenger's boys wont have the guile or focus or drive, to come through. this comes from the manager. a much tougher spirit alround is needed to secure the EPL. Worse for Arsenal fans is looks like Spurs have the manager who gets it right

  17. Westlower

    Jan 25, 2016, 9:02 #82331

    @Roy, It's worse than that as we've had 7 reds v CFC in the PL era, more than any other club. The 7 are Bould, Dixon, Vieira, Gibbs, Cazorla, Gabriel (rescinded) & BFG.

  18. stevo433

    Jan 25, 2016, 8:46 #82330

    I guess Roy must have missed the 6:0

  19. Arseneknewbest

    Jan 25, 2016, 8:38 #82329

    coleslaw - you call me four asterisks again and I'll %$£&ing brain you, you *(&%. You're so hard you're incoherent. Crawl back to your home counties ghetto and your carer. Roy the boy - fink you're more of a gooner than me do ya? Well let's hear your credentials big boy. 2 internet hard-nuts - I'm crapping meself...

  20. Bojangles

    Jan 25, 2016, 7:41 #82328

    Colseyboy was furious.. "They go on about f'ing rascism but what about the real evil! yeah f'ing ageism! They think they can laugh. Six months! Six bleeding months" Cyril (The Big C MC) and Colseyboyyyyy had been working on their rap. The plan had been to perform at the local shopping centre in Bruce Grove.. The compare built up proceedings in the Grove indoor market. Now performing their rap for the first time!!! It's..... Big C rapped "where yer from boyyyyyy... Followed by Colseyboy "I'm from the ghetto yeah , I'm from the ghetto yeah..." The laughter drowned out the rest. "It's the ghetto OAP's" someone shouted.. "It's the gangsta grandads!

  21. WENGER MUST GO ASAP!! (MARCUS)

    Jan 25, 2016, 3:37 #82327

    Would be ironic if Tottenham or Leicester city wins the league?? LORD HAVE MERCY!! Wenger and his FANGIRLS will have no excuses if that where to happen!! What would they come up with Loool?? Pelligrini would be gone if either one of those teams mentioned above win the league!! Yet I'm hearing that Wenger might be offered a new contract looool!! WHAT THE HELL HAS THIS CLUB BECOME??? Rewarding failure with more failure??? We have lost 5 games the same as man city. Guess what Tottenham have lost 3 games and Leicester city have lost 2 games!! Both will definitely lose more no doubt. But if one of those clubs win the league I'm sorry Wenger surely has to go!! What more excuses can he use?? Or his FANGIRLS?? Also vieira is probably right!! Wenger is an awful tactical manager!! He was lucky to inherit that English core and tap into that untaped french market!! Not won the pl since he has had none of those English core players available!! The teams the last 10 years have all been his 100%

  22. CT Gooner

    Jan 25, 2016, 2:27 #82326

    Our boys must feel quite sore right now, a tough loss. Did Mert get much of Costa, no, but enough for any forward to go to ground. That really left the ref no choice. Hard yes, but if the shoe were on the other foot and all that. After that, they really gave us chances to get back into the game. iOS was lucky to stay on the pitch, taking chunks out of anyone near and then the denied penalty. As for us, well, perhaps it's one to forget. Let's hope ozil and Sanchez get back to where they were in October and others can find form. I still wonder how Flamini is getting to play in front of chambers and Elneny.

  23. GoonerRon

    Jan 25, 2016, 0:50 #82325

    @ mbg - who said everything was rosey? We've got plenty of work still to do and improvements to be made all over the pitch, but some key players coming back and 3 points off the top means we're right in it. And no need to laugh, in fact I'm sure you'll all laughed out today, what with a red card for our player AND a home defeat to boot - your Christmas has come back round early.

  24. mbg

    Jan 25, 2016, 0:41 #82324

    I see Vieira got another trophy tonight for his contribution to English football, that won't go down well with mr circular and the wengerites, (and i suppose that was fixed too or there was dark forces at work) and in his interview told us he wasn't surprised about the result (you and the rest of us mate) is that another trophy TOF hasn't won ? maybe the wengerites will put his award all down to their messiah.

  25. mbg

    Jan 25, 2016, 0:07 #82323

    There we are then folks all's still rosey in the AKB's garden we're the third best team. It's not right laughing.

  26. In The Luton End When Caesar Fell

    Jan 25, 2016, 0:00 #82322

    I was living in Leicester in 1994 when the last days of GG's empire travelled to Filbert Street with almost total disinterest, and got turned over by a Leicester team featuring such legends as Gary Coatsworth, Jimmy Willis and Brian Carey. I couldn't get a ticket, but those of my local friends who were actually Leicester fans (in 1994 there were more Man Utd and Liverpool fans in the area, surprise surprise) were quick to give the details. After taking maximum piss levels, the Leicester lads added "at least your Arsenal boys aren't soft, even if they're a bit drunk and a bit sh*te". It's been the reverse for a good decade or so now. The league positions are better, but there are some serious psychological flaws going on that prevent a fitter and more talented group than that from twenty years ago achieving something tangible. As for the Mert, I've run out of wriggle room with which to stand up on his behalf. When your name on The Arsenal centre - half barometer sits closer to Stepanovs than Adams, then you're in a bit of bother.

  27. GoonerRon

    Jan 24, 2016, 23:20 #82321

    @ mbg - you're absolutely right, and currently on this season's form we're the third best team. Fortunately, there's lots more points to play for so we can still win the thing. I guess we can still mathematically get relegated so there's still hope for you though.

  28. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 23:06 #82320

    The table doesn't lie.

  29. goonercolesyboy

    Jan 24, 2016, 23:01 #82319

    Arseknowsnothing, why are you so interested in where I live? Need somewhere to stay? Not a ****ing chance you ****.

  30. Martyn

    Jan 24, 2016, 22:46 #82318

    I may stand to be corrected but generally a title winning side does not lose more than six league matches. Looking at the table both Arsenal and City have lost five each and Leicester 2 and Spurs 3 respectively. As we move towards February there is going to have to be some significant changes in form between the current top four. We have got two points from a possible nine over the last three matches and to be honest I cannot see us avoiding defeat over the remainder of the season, which we will have to do to stand any chance of winning the title. The frailties at the back have been highlighted once more today. Gabriel deserves a chance now that the BFG has been exposed. Will he be able to strike up a partnership with Kos, I'm not sure. Returning players, defensive solidity could resurrect our challenge but our lack of momentum will ultimately be our downfall. So bloody frustrating!

  31. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 22:43 #82317

    Hiccup yes indeed Henry thinks the ref was spot on (so does everyone else if they were been honest and not wengerites) wenger doesn't, he thinks we were cheated ( a well worn excuse he must be listening to his followers)I suppose we can expect another circular from wengers chief ball boy slagging of Henry for descent and not toeing the party line. Or maybe not saying he might be our manager in the future and that could turn out to be embarrassing.

  32. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 22:24 #82316

    Hiccup, there'll certainly be no new contract for the cart horse after that show of descent, but the German carthorse he'll get a raise and a new three year deal. wenger out.

  33. GoonerRon

    Jan 24, 2016, 22:20 #82315

    @mbg - were you howling for the red card when Mert made his tackle? Did you cheer when Costa scored? Punch the air at full time? I'm genuinely asking as you just seem so happy we've lost. I know we've all got our differences on here but surely we all want Arsenal FC to do as well as possible in this moment, right?

  34. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 22:12 #82314

    Augustus Flair, well said, you've answered for us all.

  35. Hiccup

    Jan 24, 2016, 22:01 #82313

    I see a new petition for Clattenburg to be banned from officiating Arsenal games is well under way. Souness has signed it, but Thierry Henry seems to think the ref got it right? I suppose we'll have to study the historian and all that before we can take his opinion seriously, but Graeme's okay. The panel agreed unanimously that Cesc should have had a penalty. Saying that, Clattenburg couldn't possibly see the challenge. As Cesc burst in to the box, Flamini was performing star jumps, deliberately obscuring the ref's view of Koscielny wiping Cesc out. A cunning plan straight from the training ground me thinks. But perfect textbook star jumps all the same.

  36. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 21:59 #82312

    SKG, good post, and that was the problem, ( as always has been) TOF had to do something that's completely Alien to him, Make a Decision.

  37. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 21:42 #82311

    My God how this Arsenal team need gutting, from the waster of a manager right through to the players, not fit for purpose.

  38. jjetplane

    Jan 24, 2016, 21:28 #82310

    With you there HICCUP and Olly's transfer request should be speeded up as quick a possible. LVG says he will take him now and we can have the Shrek. While we are at it perhaps Theo should get the captain's band for the season with Jack as his 'minder.' when he gets back. Only a few more hospital visits and he is a 'new signing.' Not trying to stir things up but Costa does play a neat, cute game. Got to give to Chelski fans singing 'we're staying up!' Bit of passion from the neu gooner fanbase would not go amiss. No sign of Westie, lee or Capt Perry? Looks like Colsey had another one of those Sundays in the drizzle.

  39. GoonerRon

    Jan 24, 2016, 21:28 #82309

    It's Arsenal FC not Arsene FC (as so many on here keep reminding me) - so why everyone is salivating and literally getting giddy at Arsenal FC losing a game is beyond me.

  40. jeff wright

    Jan 24, 2016, 21:21 #82308

    Once again our clowns in defence were unable to cope with Costa but he is being used yet again as an excuse to try and pretend that somehow only managing one shot on goal in 95 minutes was all down to us being cheated! You couldn't make it up. That's 3 league games now that Wenger has played against Hiddink - when he has been in charge at Chelsea - and Wenger's lost all 3 of them - he never managed to win one against Mourinho either .Surely there must be a reason for that>? How about Wenger is just too tactically inept - as being the real reason for this embarrassing fact. I noticed the frosty glare that Wenger cast at Giroud when he inexplicably pulled him off - while he fondly patted useless 'talks a good fight' Wally on the back when reluctantly he had to sub him stick to the usual pre-subs plan to send on little boy lost, looking bothered and bewildered not knowing his right from his left AOC - one failed to make the grade under old Uncle Arsene ex-Southampton academy boy for another . The most depressing sight though was at the end of the game when Keystone Kos did a cowardly Gallas ,after the Edourdo end of title hopes game at Brum thing , by squatting on his haunches and silently weeping. He knows and so did Sanchez by his demeanor,that once again the so called title challenge will never happen. As I said last week these players and Wenger will be happier just playing for a Chumps league place and Stan with the money made from it.Results will improve again once the pressure of having to try and win the league title are off and 4th place is a trophy won . Stan will pay Wenger the accountant 10m a year to stay on and earn him even more money. Good old Arsene.

  41. Hiccup

    Jan 24, 2016, 20:32 #82307

    Hopefully Giroud will be reprimanded by the club for his atrocious reaction to being subbed. We've seen that all too familiar expression of "what the f*ck are you doing" directed at Wenger from previous centre forwards, and this rebellion needs to be stamped out before it spreads to the fans. I suggest we recall Sanogo for the Barca game and drop Giroud again to teach him a lesson.

  42. Arseneknewbest

    Jan 24, 2016, 20:29 #82306

    Coleslaw - you are a buffoon and a little akin to an enemy within, i.e. your points of view are so ludicrous and extreme that they are, in essence, anti-arsenal. To that extent, I suggest you take your mumbo-jumbo (and erstwhile casual racism) and get on arseblog with your pro-wenger inanities. You're the kind of numpty that would start an argument in an empty room. By the way, where are you from?

  43. Augustus Flair

    Jan 24, 2016, 20:13 #82305

    Got to admire your "support" goonercolesyboy for a wretched old fool who's holding us up to ridicule and preventing Arsenal from seriously competing for honours. "Cheating Chelsea" etc were not responsible for us having one decent attack in an hour and a half, or Walcott, Ramsey, the execrable Campbell and Ozil's utter incompetence and lack of tactical or positional acumen. To support the insupportable is to defend the indefensible. I for one - and many others - want better from our prestigious club.

  44. West Cork Frank

    Jan 24, 2016, 20:01 #82304

    My reflections and pain at the true cost of us leaving the beloved Highbury. namely, our heart, soul and heritage. A thought, that recent posts have mentioned, probably triggered by The Gooners silly inclusion of a 10 years calendar of 10 years at Ashburton Grove duh talk about rubbing it in. As a season ticket holder of all its years, until i just couldn't stomach it any more. Never been our home, souless bowl.As for todays game same old same old. Mertersacker is crap, i remember his first game, soo slow, clanky and as has been proved countless times, cowardly. Still, on the later point he's sure not alone. This time Monreal avoiding the cross which led to the goal. We will never win the league with Wenger again, no heart, fight and balls. Sanchez unfortunately, will be the one leaving this summer.

  45. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 24, 2016, 19:55 #82303

    No real shock losing, l expected that,taking off Giroud was wrong but AW had to make a decision quickly and he made a bad un! However Wenger had all week to decide to make Wally our captain, utterly astonishing and an insult to the many fine men who have led Arsenal out over the many years we have all supported them!

  46. goonercolesyboy

    Jan 24, 2016, 19:45 #82302

    We lose a game of football playing with ten men for 75 minutes against a serial cheat in Costa, who clearly dives to get Mertesacker sent off. The game was then more or less over as a contest. And their fans celebrate like they won the league, along with the likes of Mug uiresbridge Arseknowsnothing and jeffjunior and the ultimate fan, hiccup. Got to admire your support.

  47. jeff wright

    Jan 24, 2016, 19:42 #82301

    The so called 'good 2 points' won at Liverpool and Stoke are as I predicted last weekend not looking so good now.It has not taken much for City and Leicester to go ahead of us. In reality the hopes of a title tilt were exposed as a sham in the first game we played when losing 2-0 to WHU at home .The tough away games to come in this second half of the season look even tougher now as well with every team fancying their chances against Arsene's little technicians. Speaking of ,which Ozil went missing, yet again, in a big game this afternoon and bottled the away at Stoke by not even playing in it. No wonder Real Madrid got shut of him,he is no big game player. 3 goals and 16 assists so far against ordinary oppo , mainly at home, are what are being put forth to claim him being a top player and ludicrously by Wenger, the master of illusion and lies, as being the new Bergkamp! You couldn't make it up. I note though that Silva at City has 8 assists and De Bruene 9 so they are not as dependent on one play-maker as we are. Keystone Kos was hopeless again today giving the ball away as usual and in the wrong position on the Costa goal allowing him a free strike that Cech had no chance of saving and also fortunate not to concede a penalty for some GBH on the MOTM ,no not Ozil, Fabregas - when barging into him in our goal area . Chelsea though are just a shadow of last season's title-winning side - yet have still beat us home and away scoring 3 goals in total while we scored er,none.We had no shots on target at the Bridge and just one at home today and were being well outplayed before plodding Per cynically brought down Costa ,who was clean through on goal. Costa made the most of the plodders clumsy tackle on him that is his job and never mind Souness and his my generation would have hobbled on nonsense,there were more divers in Liverpool sides in front of the KOP than in the Olympic water sports in his and earlier times . Per was looking to see if Costa was off sidea nd when he saw he was on he went in late on him. That was a red card any day or night of the week. Never mind it's Burnley up next in the FAC but Wenger had best not take them too lightly they are better than Sheffield Wednesday and we all know what happened when our genius met them and fielded a scratch side. With nothing to lose and a draw being like winning the final to them Burnley could be a bit tougher than what they appear to be - if Wenger puts out a weak side.

  48. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 19:19 #82300

    Did you hear the stutters and stammers of TOF in his post match, looking for excuses with his look look look answer to every question not knowing what to say, clueless. wenger out.

  49. Hiccup

    Jan 24, 2016, 19:08 #82299

    Just seen the post match interview with Cesc. When asked who he would like to manage his daughter's under-5 football team he replied Gus Hiddink. Circular no 862 will no doubt be out by the morning, with another sermon on studying another historian. It's amazing how many historians there are out there...

  50. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:56 #82298

    jj, indeed, remember the slagging off Maureen and Chelsea got by some on here (you know who you are) when he was sacked and what position they were in, and the organisms they had over it, not having the brains to realise Maureen staying was the best thing that could happen, not much gloating today I bet.

  51. Augustus Flair

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:53 #82297

    Sorry, folks, but I am so angry at what I saw today I'll have one more post and then shut up and I hand you over to the oldest doughnut in town. "What we take from today is that we are disappointed but have a lot of positives from our attitude and spirit." Oh well, that's fine then. Also, well played Aaron Ramsey, serial giver-away, who may wish to consider a return to the pastures of Harlech in time for the lambing season.

  52. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:52 #82296

    Classic self-destruction. Time and time again. For the second time this season they didn't look ready to deal with Costa. Anyone would think there's no preparation done on the opposition...

  53. Augustus Flair

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:42 #82295

    mbg is spot-on - sack that tea lady, silly old Rita Noggins, 64, from Caledonian Road, who's being doing the job 4o years, and bring on a supercharged beverage replenishment executive, county-fresh from Gloucestershire, and with a degree in Advanced Tannin Studies. Bloody Rita - she took in a tray of PG Tips, when we all know the lads prefer Yorkshire, and a Digestive/Hobnob mixture when Garibaldi & Bourbon are the nibbles of choice. There you go, Arsene, not your stupid old man's fault at all, you total dope!

  54. Ron

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:38 #82294

    We re right there still on the cusp. The title isnt won in January. Fatigue was evident. I reckon we re in the red zone. The fixture list is harder and different for Arsenal than the other 19 Clubs. This ref was biased. Merter has 110 caps so hes world class. Chelsea 'ankle tapped' all game. Just shows how their team of cloggers and 'pub footballers' can fix games. Hazard has been 'ruined', Fabregas is too full of regret he didnt re join our gung ho crew to play effectively. Terry? Hes past it. Cortois? He s not better than Cech. Tactics dont matter. Who needs them? We have 'class' Chelsea dont. Just wait till till they have to build a stadium. I bet on us to win 2-0 but covered it with a bet on Saints to beat Utd and then put an accumulator on at Stratford and they all came in. I d cashed out by half time and made a nice little packet. I think this week we should just get on with it and train ,like greyhounds and wippets. Cmon you rip roaring CL and title chasing Gunners. We need to lose to Burnley now in the FAC though. Its time we aborted that. Its not worth winning.

  55. Martyn

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:34 #82293

    Why buy a player and not play him? Perhaps Elneny is our cup midfielder. Ramsey/Flamini axis is safe but it won't win us the league; nor will Walcott and Ox in the team. How long left in transfer window?

  56. Hiccup

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:24 #82292

    Mark. A bit out of order saying Mert lacked pace? Please keep up. We have only recently just won the Fastest Defence Cup. So, are we going to be the only team not to take anything off Chelsea this season? This team that the AKB's have took the p!ss out of, sat in 16th, and we haven't even scored against them. AKBest, thankfully it's the premiere of the new Dads Army film this weekend, so the AKB's will all be viewing their performances. I do expect coldsore to pop in with a drunken barrage of abuse. Westie will definitely drop by blaming the ref and blaming Oscar for fouling. Or can we expect to hear that Chelsea only put in obscene super human efforts when they play Arsenal? Who knows, 2 points from 9 might be claimed as good? You can never tell what cr@p they're going to spout?

  57. Bard

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:16 #82291

    Big game and under we go again. 8 points from a possible 18, that aint the form of champions. Please someone put Theo out of his misery. I cannot for the life of me see what he brings to the game. The Giroud sub was a shocker. Presumably so the manager's pet can play more in the middle. Still I think we should still make 4th spot and we can start building for next season.

  58. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:13 #82290

    ArseneKnewBest, nice one, but you forgot the pitch wasn't watered enough before kick off, or maybe it was the tea lady's fault.

  59. jjetplane

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:03 #82289

    Chelski unbeaten since Maureen left. WESTLOwEr What have you done? Should be fun when 20 female journalists post match ask Webster 'did you take the wrong player off?' Theo the captain gets booed off and Olly wants a move now! And now a word from lee KFC ..... Looking for a measured response for the Rt Hon Perry on this one ..... We're 9th in the 9th Tier if that's any help ..... Onwards and upwards .....

  60. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:01 #82288

    I wonder who's fault that was, no doubt we'll hear.

  61. Arseneknewbest

    Jan 24, 2016, 18:00 #82287

    To save cole-sky lover and his turd-polishing mates the effort, here is the AKB official reaction to that. Not Weng's fault - who else could he take off other than his top scorer? If city/manure/leicester went a man down and were losing then they'd take off aguero/rooney/vardy wouldn't they. Giroud may be our top scorer but he looked fatigued. Feo is a better and more committed footballer than giroud (cos he's ingerlish says colesy) and because weng had made him captain (!!!!!), it would have been rude to take him off. The team was all tired out after drawing with stoke a week ago. The referee is anti-arsenal. And if all of that fails, fook off to the lane. Disappointingly familiar does not even get close. Being made a mug by Chelski - how does that feel Monsieur Wenger? Forget the league and CL and go for the FAC again - time to be honest.

  62. Augustus Flair

    Jan 24, 2016, 17:58 #82286

    Wretched, woeful and hopeless. I am gutted at where this deluded old fool has taken us! Gutted!

  63. Smithy

    Jan 24, 2016, 17:53 #82285

    Don't buy any champagne this year!

  64. Paulo75

    Jan 24, 2016, 17:09 #82284

    Excruciatingly painful watching Theo try to control and pass a football. Get Sanchez on now FFS

  65. Smithy

    Jan 24, 2016, 17:06 #82283

    So the old German oil tanker let us down again!

  66. Mark from Aylesbury

    Jan 24, 2016, 16:33 #82282

    Mertsekers lack of pace and positioning pays the ultimate penalty. How difficult we make it and the same rhythm of cock up in big games continues

  67. Gooner 89

    Jan 24, 2016, 16:33 #82280

    I am speechless. Go down to ten men and take off Giroud. Unbelievable even for the deluded one. Wenger out

  68. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 24, 2016, 16:15 #82279

    Roy, so glad you see it my way and do not forget that it was Sir Alf's achievements with Ipswich Town that got him the England job-the rests as they say.....

  69. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 15:46 #82278

    jj, yes and we keep been told by the AKB's that their messiah always does what's best for Arsenal, yeah right.

  70. Ron

    Jan 24, 2016, 15:41 #82277

    Book yself an appointment with an optometrist Roy. Tunnel vision nor myopia need no longer be a lifetime sentence, though i suspect its more selective vision with you, a common ailment amongst AKBs. Medical science cant yet cure that. We ll have Westlower coming on soon im sure declaring that ALL defenders were 'hairy arsed' 'pub footballers' (as if no donkeys ever took to a PL pitch!) before the PL graced us with its presence. Like him, i suspect you saw little footie before then.

  71. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 15:24 #82276

    Paulo75, hear what your saying but it's not really about what Vieira said or didn't say that's getting people excited, it's more about what wengerites would have you believe in the defence of their messiah if they were allowed to get away with it.

  72. mbg

    Jan 24, 2016, 15:12 #82275

    LEULZ, good post, we all know the AKB's eleventh commandment (thou must not take the name of our lord and master in vain) and anyone that does even real Arsenal legends cop it and become the enemy.

  73. Seven Kings Gooner

    Jan 24, 2016, 14:38 #82274

    So agree Ron, watching Norwich v Liverpool was a perfect example of how basic defensive skills are being forgotten in the name of entertainment. The coming Euros will show just how poor English football has become. Remember Boggy fields, car parks and street football won us the World cup.

  74. Ron

    Jan 24, 2016, 13:30 #82273

    Maybe these wondrous PL Clubs might try renting a few boggy fields and car parks then to train on because back then the old First Division was stacked full of goal keepers and quite a number were more than good enough to play for England and would have done if not for Banks's, Springetts and Bonetti s excellence for so long. The PL today is stacked full of poor to average goal keepers, barely a defender of any note with a real understanding of how to defend individually or collectively and the entire league has probably one universally recognized world class player in it. Keep the PL myth burning though Westie.

  75. jjetplane

    Jan 24, 2016, 12:43 #82272

    So Pep fancies a move to AFC over a Chelski one but the aged Arsene wants to stop it by signing up for another two years of humdrum cuspness. Sure AKB Central is creamimg in it's collective ..... He played for Arsenal. WEstIE is a bit quite on the let's slag off Viera 'cause we can campaign. Also a bit quiet on Leicester's refusal to bend to the most expensive club in the world to watch with the least major trophies. Paddy right all day long .... Will we have a 'let's have a go at Denis the Spud' article next time? All very Orwellian wiping Arsenal history away pre-Emirates - you can keep it! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz We were the Arsenal/we were the best/...........

  76. Westlower

    Jan 24, 2016, 12:28 #82271

    Hopefully some of our young guns read the informative interview with England's World Cup GK Gordon Banks in yesterdays Mail. When he first signed for Leicester in 1959, the training consisted of running around the pitch at Filbert Street, weight lifting in the gym & 5-a-side football in the car park. As a GK he obviously couldn't throw himself to the ground on tarmac, so his training was limited to say the least. Combine that with the muddy pitches that were prevalent during the winter months, the emphasis was on strength & stamina over speed & technique. Chalk and cheese compared to today's PL football.

  77. Ozzie

    Jan 24, 2016, 11:58 #82270

    I couldn't give a rat's tail what he thinks. Was a good player yes, pssed the club around yes, giant ego yes, will be a flop as a manager yes. Now let's get out there and win a bloody game that matters for a change!

  78. Paulo75

    Jan 24, 2016, 9:33 #82269

    Amazing how an article about what an ex player said or didn't say gets people a bit over excited. There's surely more important things going on just now as far as Arsenal are concerned. A big performance with some self discipline this time should see us get another 3 points - Come on Arsenal!!

  79. unbeat 14

    Jan 24, 2016, 4:07 #82268

    Not a arsenal man r u a arsenal fan r a Wenger fan. As good as Henry n Bergkamp was we won nothing without paddy it took Wenger ten yrs b 4 he won anything since he left that tells the story by it self. The club is offering 120 a wk to Wilshire I m sick of wenger

  80. Exeter Gunner

    Jan 23, 2016, 22:22 #82267

    A tradition seems to have arisen whereby someone says something via the media that doesn't praise Wenger as the most amazing manager of all time and Graham is after them with an article. The bloke has never won a European trophy of any form. Scale down the reverence if you wish to stay in contact with reality.

  81. Danny

    Jan 23, 2016, 22:11 #82266

    Vieira is correct Maureen is better then the loser Wenger Why don't Arsenal bring back icons like Adams , Keown or Viera instead of Yes men like Henry Now i hear Arsenal are going to reward the coach with a new contract and he hasn't even won the league yet. Rewarding failure will bring you failure Wenger has to leave at end of season

  82. goonercolesyboy

    Jan 23, 2016, 21:52 #82265

    LEULZ, you aren't bitter are you?

  83. LEULZ

    Jan 23, 2016, 21:29 #82264

    Yes that bitter Vieira, how dare he think a manager with 3 PL titles, 1 UEFA Cup, 1 Liga title and 2 CLs be a superior manager to one that's never won anything in Europe and spent the past decade failing? Paddy doesn't seem bitter at all. That's quite obvious. He calmly says Arsene was good for his career but that Mourinho taught him more. If you observe the way Wenger fails in Europe and the league in pretty much the some way, every year, for over a decade...and observe Jose has done the opposite then it's plain AKB desperate diversion to save their Messiah's dead reputation. Mourinho has won everything, Wenger never will. Full stop. It's not even close. "Bitter"? What for? Maybe he regrets winning those titles at Juve etc whilst we won..

  84. mbg

    Jan 23, 2016, 21:03 #82263

    If only Jermaine Pennant would have listened to the greatest manager that ever lived, he'd have went places, he'd have been top top Qualitee maybe playing for Barca now, the best player Arsenal ever had, just like chensey, Wilshire, wally, chamberlain, ramsey, etc, etc. You couldn't make it up.

  85. Cyril

    Jan 23, 2016, 20:53 #82262

    Interesting interview by Koeman earlier. He says that we [soton] fight for European qualification but Arsenal and Man U must fight for the league. That's a come and get me call me thinks. Perhaps he could be the man after Wenger.

  86. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Jan 23, 2016, 20:22 #82261

    Ok so a journalist tried to make something out of nothing. Whatever zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Meanwhile, how do you lot feel about that tactical genius Klopp aka Coco The Clown whose side seem to be handing out goals like christmas presents. Looks like he would have been a great manager for AFC....oh hold on a minute.

  87. mbg

    Jan 23, 2016, 20:00 #82260

    Bard, we don't need evidence mate, there's enough of that to show OGL has lost the plot a long time ago. But this is a perfect example of the reward you get for praising wenger and saying nice, and the right things about him, and basically kissing his arse over the years even if you are a second rater, is it any wonder no player speaks out and says what they really think ? just think where Vieira would be now if he'd been a wengerite arse licker.

  88. Grammar Gooner

    Jan 23, 2016, 19:00 #82259

    Onky night though Amos ......

  89. Bard

    Jan 23, 2016, 18:40 #82258

    Slight digression I know but I read that Arsenal have offered Jack a stonking £31m contract at roughly £110th per week. If you need evidence that Arsenal and the Boss have lost the plot this is it. He is /was a real talent but he has hardly kicked a ball in anger for about 3/4 years !!

  90. Bard

    Jan 23, 2016, 17:48 #82257

    Graham; This is just irrelevant gossip. So what PV agitated for a move. The money then wasnt what it is now and he had every right to try and feather his nest. All this loyalty rubbish belongs to the old days. Money is the name of the game. I couldnt careless what PV thinks about Wenger. It doesnt change how we should view him. Keane doesnt like Ferguson. The relevant issue trophies won not whether ex players think you are the business or not and on that score Wenger is second rate as many on here recognise.

  91. Amos

    Jan 23, 2016, 17:47 #82256

    Surely the point at issue isn't whether anyone is concerned that Vieira hasn't praised Wenger. It's onky about whether Vieira's expectations of Arsenal are justified. “Arsenal? I’ve never been contacted by anyone to manage or get involved with the Club ...I was expecting something from them but it didn't come.” I doubt that it's keeping anyone at Arsenal awake night though.

  92. deansway

    Jan 23, 2016, 16:05 #82255

    i think it is fair to say that one of arsenals failings and that of wenger is not to follow ferguson's exaqmple and have a challenging assistant manager. the silence of bould and rice is reflected in the questionable tactics during the games.

  93. mbg

    Jan 23, 2016, 15:03 #82254

    Ron, good post, and to think we used to give the good old moderate Simon Rose a hard time.

  94. mbg

    Jan 23, 2016, 14:51 #82253

    Sour grapes ? maybe it's the other way round because Viera was his own man (like he was at Arsenal) and didn't run to wenger to consult him and stroke his ego at every opportunity by asking his advice, maybe if he had TOF might have given him the job instead. Tension towards Arsenal ? really ? i'd say if there's any tension (as you call it) it's towards OGL (after all who hasn't) not the club as you'd like us to believe. Why should he not choose Jose he obviously knows more about wenger than we do maybe what he's really like having played under him, your not saying your messiah is a better and more successful manager, no need to answer that. I suppose it's just a case of when anybody speaks out against your Lord and master and gives their opinion especially an ex player they suddenly become bad un's and enemy number one.

  95. jjetplane

    Jan 23, 2016, 14:28 #82252

    Useless, biased rubbish as it is obvious That Wenger owes his better years in football (long past) to the likes of Paddy, Adams and a few others who drove the club on to win PLs though were always inferior in Europe and that is exactly where Wenger has always fallen short and where JM excelled. When Wenger first slipped in the back door at Highbury he practically hid behind the likes of Adams and Viera and there was none of the sitting on hands and talking in a silly accent to 4th officials because he had even less pressure on him. To hear the likes of Amos saying Paddy was never an Arsenal man is so typically right wing faction Wengerspeak. What Paddy did at Highbury will reverberate a lot longer than watching the ultimately boring Wenger wend his way to semi retirement (has been for a decade) and then some .... He comes from Senegal - how easy these plastic Wengerites forget and spit on yesterdays' heroes. I guess your idea of an arseanl man is Jackie boy ..... The only sour grapes are the AKB ones.

  96. Hiccup

    Jan 23, 2016, 14:17 #82251

    It's good to see the AKB 'Study the Historian' division is hot on the heels of all these fans/players that don't think the sun shines out of Wenger's arse. I thought the whole purpose of this hobby was to single out fans like Piers who want Wenger out. But now it seems to have expanded to those that don't have a bad word to say about Wenger, but fail to heap praise on him. The fact that Vieira wanted away for several years might just back up the case that he never rated Wenger that highly? You seem to be the bitter one Graham. You're taking all this lack of Wenger praise far too personal.

  97. Cyril

    Jan 23, 2016, 13:09 #82244

    Gaz: yep, when he signed, we couldn't believe it. He was a real playboy though. Down to earth. He would be seen walking up highgate hill in his leathers on having banter with people outside the pub. A nice connection sadly lost I fear today. You have to be in the moment. Players loved a beer back in the day. It's a shame he didn't fulfil his potential down here. Another great signing was Tony Woodcock. He was some player for us even after his Forest days. Never stopped running. Great technique and shot on him.

  98. Stuart

    Jan 23, 2016, 12:53 #82243

    It may be sour grapes, but Vieira, though massive for Arsenal, messed AW about for 3 or 4 seasons about with his "will he or won't he" leave for Italy or Spain and this may well have had a bearing. The players he has taken backonly left at the end of their contacts and Fabregas had always said he'd only leave for Barca. Yes it was a mistake not to re sign him when he came back ( what's the point of having a first option if you don't use it) and if he thinks Cesc wouldnt have been an asset had he returned, then he really should look at himself. My worries are about AW's criteria for signing players and his frequent and recent quotes about there being no one out there who's better than what we have. Given injuries and form etc., if he really doesn't think Wanyama, Benzema, Lewandowski, Goetze, and several others, are better than some of our present playing staff, the maybe his judgement is no longer as good as it was. Also, from having a scouting system when he first came which was second to absolutely none, to now being behind several other clubs and when you clubs like Stoke, Newcastle, West Ham, Leicester and others, signing terrific players who, in the past, we might gave signed, you know things are not as good as we're entitled to expect at a club with the resources we have. I read today, that AW is close to agreeing a new deal. With the likes of Guardiola and recently Ancelotti available, I fear that's a mistake. MT

  99. Gaz

    Jan 23, 2016, 12:32 #82242

    I'd probably place Charlie Nicholas at number one in my list of all time most exciting signings. Like you Cyril I was a teenager at school when he joined and I can remember exactly where I was when I read the newspaper saying he'd joined us! Apart from that 87 League cup win my favourite memory of him was seeing him score twice against the scum at ****e heart lane. Great memories and its such a shame it never really worked out for him...

  100. Cyril

    Jan 23, 2016, 12:06 #82240

    David: Shame about Charlie. I was a teenager when he was at the club. We adored him. Everyone had his haircut at school. Even the Spurs fans had 'Charlie's' . He came to us after 54 goal season with Celtic. He was class but didn't work for him down here. He used to live just up the road from me in Highgate in the iconic Berthold Lubetkin's Highpoint. The opening credits of the 'saint' shot there. Part of his problem was he loved a pint in the Wrestlers across the road and over the west end. We really had high hopes for him.

  101. Ron

    Jan 23, 2016, 12:02 #82239

    Im sure many us had 12 or 14 yrs of school life and had one teacher for only a short time who influenced us far more than did any other? PV seems a very bright and thoughtful man who keeps his own counsel. Tension with AFC? How do you know? 'More likely hes bitter'? Does he seem bitter? He seems very relaxed and sure of his path in life to me. Cruyff, Guardiola, Robson, Mercer, Dalglish, Kendall, Beckenbaur, Revie, Busby, Nicholson, Clough. All on a scale of very good to great players. All made brilliant coaches.The old adage about great players never becoming great coaches never had a sound basis and died a death yrs ago. Some times in life what a person offers at any particular time is nt needed at a given establishment and the perceived natural link up doesn't occur. If itys right that PV isnt well disposed towards Wenger, hes hardly alone is he. Have many Coaches of other Clubs embraced him? It seems to me most shun him for reasons that are pretty well documented. Hes even managed to upset and ostracize such as Bob Wilson and Liam Brady as ex AFC greats who did make it at Arsenal. Perhaps PV is having a lucky escape by not going there? Youre right though, lets always check the historian so to validate his take on historical epochs. Im checking you Graham and yr post seems to me like yet another AKB informed whine about any body that doesnt glorify and put Wenger up in bright lights while never missing even the most tenuous opportunity to slake of Mourinho. Youre blinkers are pretty easy to spot, firmly as ever, welded on to your face.

  102. David

    Jan 23, 2016, 11:40 #82236

    Charlie Nicholas and GG, Keane and Fergie, Vieira and AW - all the same stuff - bitter players who feel let down by the boss.

  103. jeff wright

    Jan 23, 2016, 10:56 #82231

    Overall over the same period of time that Wenger and Mourinho have been in management there is no argument that the mouthy Portugeezer has been the more successful manager.In fact this is not even arguable. Wenger has been criticized by other ex-players such as Tony Adams for his lack of tactical nous.Others in the game have questioned his training and medical regime. With Mourinho it is about his man management skills that after a period of time cause problems at the clubs he is at where initially he achieves success. Then the dreaded third season syndrome kicks-in and Mourinho departs to pastures new .Arsene though , who has created a cozy comfort zone ,in which he can survive even going 9 years without winning anything and when he did do it was just a cup that previously had been deemed not worth bothering with goes on forever..yawn and ever... . Vieira I agree was never an Arsenal supporter ,not that this matters he was a pro-footballer and very few actually support the club , as in football supporter such as Rooney supports Everton but plays for United, , so this is completely irrelevant and do not all players anyway try to screw as much as they can from the club they are at ,depending on their status >? Vieira's tension is toward Arsene it is about them and their relationship and not about AFC and the club's supporters .No surprise though to see uber right on AKB's getting all worked up about it!

  104. wali

    Jan 23, 2016, 10:03 #82226

    Thats what viera feels, and his opinion note bad as such he has never worked with ARSENE WENGER as coach he was just but as a player but to mou was his mentor so it seems mou style sooths him more than WENGER style. As fan we will be out here watching his performance as coach. gud luck.

  105. johnnyhawleyloovinggooner

    Jan 23, 2016, 10:02 #82225

    Suggest you find bradys comments on pennant upon bradys retirement.it is a player now playing lower league football that anoys liam.find it hard to disagree with amos on pv4

  106. Cyril

    Jan 23, 2016, 9:31 #82224

    Good article and thought provoking. I would have to say the accolade for the greatest player for success both on and off the pitch must go to Johan Cruyff. I have listened to him talk about tactics in that Dutch way. Pure class and genius. Oh for one of those at Arsenal in the future. I wish Vieira well. Pure class on the pitch too. Will never forget his debut. Immediately we knew...

  107. Amos

    Jan 23, 2016, 9:31 #82223

    Vieira's relationship with Arsenal was quite often an uncomfortable one. His flirtation with Real almost every summer with the probability that had present player contract laws been in place before the unbeaten season he would have joined ManU. Before winning the double in 2002 and going on to win the title in 2004 unbeaten with another FAC sandwiched in between he publicly claimed could not see us winning another trophy and demanded he be allowed to leave. He was also instrumental in fostering discontent in the Cole saga texting him that he should insist on £80k a week instead of the £60k he was hanging out for. When Real finally told Vieira he wasn't worth as much as he thought he pulled out of a deal that would have brought the club £25m to invest in other players and then half heartedly moped around the pitch for a season until we managed to send him off to Italy for half that amount. Great player though he was for a time, he was never really much of an Arsenal man. That the club or Wenger don't see him as such shouldn't really come as a suprise to anyone.