Arsenal Circular 134 – Arsene Wenger is not the devil incarnate

But if Arsenal fail to win the title this season, the manager must take responsibility



Arsenal Circular 134 – Arsene Wenger is not the devil incarnate


A bad result and the knives are out. A good result and the wavelengths go quiet. Some are so anti-Wenger they actually want bad news. They want him out. Better he fails and we get change. Off with his head! Now! Let’s lose against Leicester and we can write him off. That is where this nonsense gets you. The animosity of some is so deep – any success gets in the way of the preferred exit option. You end up hoping for failure. You want the team to lose to vindicate your belief that we need a new man at the helm. You want it to get worse.

And then you get the wild comments – like Alam who says, “if a player falls short – fire him”. Who are you to say when a player falls short? What are your credentials? What do you know about football? When have you managed a team, made decisions on tactics and squads and transfers? The answer is never so why should anyone listen to you on the question of players in and out or on tactics. In my comments I never talk about these matters because I know my limitations. I know what I don’t know. Do you? And this is not just Alam but quite a few of the contributors. Where is your modesty? Where are your football CV’s that justify you sounding off at such length?

I write as a supporter who comments as a supporter who is a supporter. That is not blind loyalty or anything like it. I have frequently made known my reservations about Wenger but they never relate to matters on which I know nothing and I know nothing about tactics and strengths and weaknesses of players and formations. I do have views but I don’t express them except in a very restrained way because I have never taken a coaching course or played football at any level of any significance. Doesn’t that go for most of us? Aren’t we all amateurs – well-intentioned amateurs, followers of Arsenal, lovers of Arsenal, but not coaches or tacticians or anything like it.

And if you doubt what I am saying just look at the plight of Gary Neville. One of the very best pundits. Really incisive views about matches and players and tactics. Put him in charge of a team and it all goes wrong. How successful was Hoddle or Shearer or Lawrenson or Souness? And yet they speak with conviction and self-righteousness that beggars belief. And of course there are those who have never managed like Lineker or Savage or Murphy. So so easy for them from the comfort of the studio sofa to pronounce on areas for which they have never been blessed with a moment’s responsibility. So so different when you have to make the decisions. Something about “The Buck Stops Here”.

Poor Gary Neville may have made a big mistake. Instead of being touted as a shoe-in for Hodgson for England or for LVG at Old Trafford he now has big question marks against his name. How close were Ferguson and Kendall to the sack? So please when you think you know it all and you know the tactics inside and out and you know the good players from the bad ones just remember your own CV.

Does that make us mute? Silent? Without opinions? Not at all. Football is a game of opinion after all – we do make judgments about people and matches but I say again be cautious about the importance that you attach to your own judgments and certainly scale down the invective and the animosity and yes that word again – hatred.

I have always said that this season there would be no excuses for failing to win the title. Unlike many of the onlinegooner correspondents I have given Wenger credit for keeping us in Europe and even on occasions challenging for the title when we were forced to be a selling club. Our best players were sold. The incoming players were not top notch and to his credit we never flirted with relegation or mid-table stagnation. It was one of the most remarkable achievements to keep us at or close to the top. But things have changed. We now have the money and we have had the option to sign the best and if after all that things fall away then it is the responsibility of Wenger. But today we are still in with a shout. We did well against the Cherries – helped though we were by their poor finishing. But no nerves on our part. Great commitment and grit and determination. We played at a high tempo and scored two good goals. We still have the best of Sanchez to come and whilst Giroud provided a key assist for Ozil’s goal we still are due some goals from him. Leicester is a six pointer – not to say twelve.

I am sorry if I annoy some people. But sometimes things have to be said and I am prepared to say them. Football does things to people. Look around you at a match and see how quite restrained and modest people become full of passion and intensity. That is fine, but when it tips into hatred then you have lost the plot. Then you are using football as a cover for other more personal issues in your lives and is better to be aware of it than to pretend that a football manager who you do not care for is the devil incarnate.

*Follow my tweets @arsenalcircular


NEW! Subscribe to our weekly Gooner Fanzine newsletter for all the latest news, views, and videos from the intelligent voice of Arsenal supporters since 1987.

Please note that we will not share your email address with any 3rd parties.


Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

154
comments

  1. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 13, 2016, 23:24 #83638

    The man with the least clear and clarifying prose you could have the misfortune to read believes he holds up a mirror. Accuses others of complicating simple things. Has his hypocrisy factually demonstrated to him time and time again. The attempt to dupe everyone into believing he was someone else called Brian. The endless goodbyes followed by inevitable comebacks. Yet the supercillious tone remains. Badarse, you have no idea how much of laughing stock you are on here, do you?

  2. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 13, 2016, 18:46 #83635

    Sorry, posted this on the wrong thread. Some monikers below have been changed to protect the guilty. ‘In fact I said after reading Graham's first article that the jackals would hunt him down in a pack-some are just joining that rabble-the WOR, Wenger Out Rabble’ DireRear Post no. 88110. ‘The attempt to try to change words, whether to describe those you disagree with or my online monicker, is a failure, believe me on that one, more it is puerile’. NaughtyBottom Post no. 88491. My prediction for tomorrow Arsenal 2 Leicester 2.

  3. Nick

    Feb 13, 2016, 16:31 #83630

    I'm off to put my tongue away and have a nap as us old timers do now and then , my job is done Mr Bottombad rose to the bait like a salmon into the jaws of a bear, nuff said on that I think , manure losing to the Black Cats has somewhat improved my humour, Jjetplane nice biblical quote on the foibles of the Arsenites, who I fear are doomed to wander the wastelands for eternity crying out " Arsene knows" such is their fate poor deluded souls.

  4. jjetplane

    Feb 13, 2016, 13:04 #83618

    ... and so the Arsenites left the mountain and into the desert they wandered in tearful prayer ... (Book of Total Job verses .....)

  5. Badarse

    Feb 13, 2016, 13:02 #83617

    I'm sorry Nick I think Exeter writes your script, because he always gets simple things convoluted and tangled, and you do too. These are just the crosses you both must bear; it has nothing to do with supporting Arsenal, your views on the current manager, or how you like your eggs in the morning,(I like mine with a smile). You are angry and you defend it, which is a bit daft but your choice, then you go into a tailspin because..., well just because. You want to have a dig as I get under your skin by holding up that mirror, and you can't break it because it will bring seven years bad luck to you-Arsene signs a seven year extension?-but bad luck to you may not be to someone else. One man's meat? Now forget all that I have just written, one more circuit of the bowl should suffice, and think on this. You get angry and write silly words, I tell you so, you respond angrily and with more silly words, but, and here is the kicker, you then say I don't like the criticisms!??! If a small child pokes his/her tongue out at me it doesn't affect me. So just put your tongue away. Now nap time for you again.

  6. Nick

    Feb 13, 2016, 10:13 #83610

    Yep, Badbottoms meds have definitely worn off, I'm apparently crass, puerile, rude and and old cove in need of an afternoon nap, you certainly don't like it up you do you Mr Bottom? I was after all merely replying to your earlier missive where you insulted and patronized me, with a gentle ribbing, it appears I struck a nerve, as for accusing me of playing to the gallery that's a bit rich coming from someone who's almost every post is of a pseudo intellectual who is condescending to said gallery with prose that seems to have escaped from a mad hatters tea party.Yes I took the proverbial, I also made a point which you chose to ignore, no doubt another of your efforts at rivaling War and Peace will pop up in reply to this post id suggest you don't bother Mr Arse, I may give it a cursory look but I shall not reply, I have said all I am going to say to you I have no need to look once more into the dark worm.hole of your mind , unless of course you change the habit of a life time and actually say something that makes sense .

  7. Badarse

    Feb 12, 2016, 17:36 #83577

    Nick you are a rude and angry. Being an Arsenal fan doesn't explain or excuse your silliness. The attempt to try to change words, whether to describe those you disagree with or my online monicker, is a failure, believe me on that one, more it is puerile. By the way addressing the website is a little grandiose, don't you think? It's known as playing to the gallery-if you must play I think you'd be better suited to borrowing one of Ron's drums, or a couple of his dustbin lids. Now go and have a snooze old chap.

  8. Nick

    Feb 12, 2016, 10:30 #83555

    Badbackside takes exception to my use of the word " Arsenite" one of my own construction and proceeds to "try" to ridicule me and calls me an angry man, well in that he is correct anything that affects my club in an adverse way makes me angry, and for all his early success these last ten years with two notable Wembley exception, Wenger has earned the ire of those who love the Arsenal and see through his excuses and spin, the rest of his rambling essay was far too boring to bother with, I get the impression that his meds may be wearing off .

  9. Mick Jones

    Feb 11, 2016, 17:41 #83539

    Badarse - speaking from your mount again I see. So Arsenite is angry whereas 'dark moanie' is just all fun and light banter is it? You disgraceful old hypocrite. Got any more groper jokes have yer?

  10. Professor Yaffle

    Feb 11, 2016, 16:14 #83534

    Badarse - why don't you **** off down the Lane

  11. mbg

    Feb 11, 2016, 15:47 #83533

    MARCUS, for me it's even more simpler mate, no matter who wins it (and that includes ourselves)he has to go. wenger out.

  12. mbg

    Feb 11, 2016, 14:26 #83528

    Ronnie, excellent post, lets hope it's taken on board.

  13. jjetplane

    Feb 11, 2016, 12:29 #83518

    Jackerson in the hole/shed ....

  14. Badarse

    Feb 11, 2016, 11:43 #83513

    Nick you seem an angry man. 'Arsenites','lord and master',(have you been attending Online Gooner Virtual Bible Classes with Jamerson and mbg, the 'old' and the 'new'?),'poor deluded souls', 'Wenger's supporters'. Interesting in that you miss every point-quite an ability, but hardly unique on this site. A man attempts a task, some are quite clearly more experienced in any particular job. Some go to extraordinary levels to raise themselves to a higher point of understanding. A professional football manager is one such beast. Yet there will always be some greater and some lesser. Operating in that sphere does not preclude anyone, and that means anyone, even me, of holding an opinion. Some more readily than others perhaps, accept that there may be swathes of information or duties required for an individual to carry out such an operation successfully. Good fortune plays an immense part in everything we do in life, every step we take-I'm sorry to sound obvious but many go off half cocked-that's not an allusion to the Totts, but it can sometimes be appropriate-missing those very aspects that I have highlighted. Happenstance-a horrid word, but one that fits-is omnipresent in all matters, including managing and coaching a football team...at any level. You grab those fortunate occurrences readily and add them into the patchwork of your squad, just as you have to accept that a key component has disappeared off the radar due to an injury, but more beguilingly as a loss of form in any one individual. It is only fair and proper that we all have a point of view and that we are allowed to measure the ratio of success as is, to that of success as expected. An acceptance level of anyone shouldn't be vilified, nor personality assassination take place if another deems the achievement fits the expected return, and then that it doesn't meet with another's expectations.Life is a minestrone, but if you like Italian food I say bring on the parmesan cheese.

  15. Ron

    Feb 11, 2016, 11:41 #83512

    Westie - whos waiting? I think its been pretty clear for some yrs that Wally and Willy arent going to pull up any trees as players. Ones been there 10 years, the other made his début 7 yrs or so back.Injury prone and neither good enough. Neither has a game nor a football brain that will develop beyond its present limited level, not in their mid twenties like these two. Ox might have a chance elsewhere with a Coach who uses his skills right, picks his best position and shows a bit of belief in him. Remains to be seen though. He lives in his Dads shadow i think and cant shake it. Mark Chamberlain was very good on his day. All 3 are overhyped due to being English.

  16. Nick

    Feb 11, 2016, 10:49 #83510

    Jack says that blaming Wenger for our shortcomings is ridiculous, really? Its ok to give him Kudos when things go well though. He is the manager it is his job to create, and select the team, to coach whatever style of play he wishes them to employ, and to motivate the players, therefore when things go wrong because players he has brought to the club are unable to grasp what he wants or fail to perform to the expected level it is reasonable to lay the fault at his door, you cannot except praise when things go right then avoid blame when they go wrong, yet the Arsenites refuse to accept this simple logic their lord and master can do no wrong .It is like trying to teach algebra to an amoeba to try and get an Arsenite to see reason, to accept the reams of evidence that point to their leaders failings, to make them see that when mistake after mistake is made that if then success ensues it is garnered in SPITE of those mistakes not because of them ! Wengers supporters are held spellbound by the glamour he weaves for them, we should feel sorry for these poor deluded souls.

  17. Westlower

    Feb 11, 2016, 9:03 #83509

    Good article in the Telegraph about none of Arsenal's English boys establishing themselves as regular starters in the first team. It's possible there maybe 1, 2 (Ox/Theo) or more likely, none starting v Leicester. They were supposed to be the core of the first team by this stage of their career, but still we wait. Injuries have inhibited most of them from ever having a regular run of games. Has the game become too fast for their fragile English bodies?

  18. Made Up Stat

    Feb 11, 2016, 7:30 #83507

    Oh give me a half billion home where the buffalo roam, Where the overpaid and underperforming play, Where seldom is got a cup or a pot, And nothing happens on deadline day. Copyright Wiggo Music, ASDA bealarf corp.

  19. WENGER MUST GO ASAP(MARCUS)

    Feb 11, 2016, 4:43 #83506

    Again another pathetic excuse of an article to try and defend Wenger! For me it's simple if Leicester city or Tottenham win the league Wenger has to go!!! The excuses will have ran out!! What could he say?? It his fanboys?? He always used to make a big excuse about the oil rich clubs being able to outspend us!!! Leicester city and Tottenham have a way smaller wage structure than us and have no outspent us especially when it comes to buying world class players!!

  20. Ronnie

    Feb 10, 2016, 22:26 #83505

    What utter drivel. So because the vast majority haven't taken a coaching badge there is no authority? There is no differentiation between managers as long as you have qualifications/experience. What about a brain dead thug who has taken a coaching badge, more of a authority on selection and tactics than a supporter of 20+ years? No-one can offer an opinion that Claudio Ranieri is clearly doing a better managerial job than Jose Mourinho was at Chelsea the season without the pre-requisite qualifications? I would suggest that drawing a correlation between a 'good' pundit and lack of success in management is so fatally flawed it requires a whole other thread. Management has so many facets - tactics, respect, motivation, recruitment, squad harmony, balanced approach to results, when to rule with an iron fist or when to put an arm around someone. All of these dynamics and countless more go into football management. Standing in front of a screen re-winding the freaking obvious after 5 times of slow mo is not difficult. Andy Gray was offered the Everton job and had the good sense to turn it down. For some reason people thought the sexist baboon had a decent opinion on football 'could Messi handle a wet Tuesday at Stoke'. We are all entitled to an opinion on Wenger because the guy has put himself in a position of manager at one of the leading clubs in the world and the associated scrutiny that comes with it. Fans can see the fatal flaws of his methods and tactics that are repeated year in year out whatever their footballing background. No fan wishes ill on him or the team. If we suddenly have a back 4/5 like the late 80s/early 90s and score freely marching to top honours no-one is going to complain (even Piers Morgan). But the reality is the odds of that are minimal and unfortunately nothing will change

  21. Finsbury Joe

    Feb 10, 2016, 22:14 #83504

    Remi Garde.....Arsenal manager....now there's a match. But despite that, cannot help but admire Westie

  22. mbg

    Feb 10, 2016, 21:29 #83503

    Luton, yes, the place and the fans must really be buzzing at the moment (it's been a long time since we've felt something similar) and good luck to them. It would be a breath of fresh air to the whole prem and a kick up the arse to four or five teams and their managers. I don't think there's anyone who would begrudge it to them and indeed their manager also, well apart from those who can see no further than a manager who they think is God and has been trying to do it for the last ten years and failing miserably.

  23. CT Gooner

    Feb 10, 2016, 20:19 #83502

    Just read the open letter to LFC fans from FSG. My god, how I wish they owned Arsenal, owners who care about what the supporters think. Yes it's Liverpool, far less of a tourist market, but still, a strange thing in American owners these days! As for you Jack, we won't know if the manager wasn't responsible, we've only had the one for the last 20 years....

  24. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2016, 19:40 #83501

    of course dear Jamie, it's the supporters fault that the manager only won two Fa Cups for all the money they spent on buying tickets for the last decade.They pick the team,decide on tactics,buy the players ,coach them and are as happy as Larry with getting stuffed by the likes of Southampton 4-0 and regularly getting turned over in Europe by all and sundry . It all makes perfect sense.

  25. Bard

    Feb 10, 2016, 19:16 #83500

    Jack/jamerson: who am I ? Answers on a postcard. You can change your name all you like mate but its as obvious. Man up and take responsibility for your posts

  26. In The Luton End When Caesar Fell

    Feb 10, 2016, 19:03 #83499

    @mbg, no problem. I lived in Leicester for six years, saw the end of Little & McGee and was there all the way through O'Neill's years at Filbert. Believe me, I know a few fellas from around that area who'll be jazzing in their shorts right now. Whether they're still doing that in May is more the responsibility of their team than ours. Crackers, eh?

  27. Jack

    Feb 10, 2016, 18:26 #83498

    If you have such a limited perception that it's just about the manager then the top four and FA cup is all you will ever deserve.The philosophy of just blaming Wenger is weak and well past it's sell by date.

  28. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2016, 17:51 #83496

    anthony walters93,I always found Sir Ferguson odious but I don't support United so their manager is their fans problem. I comment on Wenger because he manages AFC and all sorts of nonsensical claims have been put forth about him in this capacity . The main thing that comes over with Wenger is his stubbornness - he is very autocratic and , despite his obvious violent bully-boy persona, Sir Ferguson knew his own limitations and unlike le emperor Arsene was not shy to take advice on tactics or to delegate training to others -albeit he of course claimed all the credit for any success that this achieved. Wenger though is too much of a control freak to do this and so the charade goes on and on and yawn...on....

  29. mbg

    Feb 10, 2016, 17:48 #83495

    Luton, thanks for that.

  30. mbg

    Feb 10, 2016, 17:21 #83494

    Mark from Aylesbury, yes it's the supporters now (well some of them anyway) real barrel scraping in the defence of their messiah, if they keep this up they'll soon be able to have breakfast with Ozzie, it was the Online gooner a while ago (more barrel scraping there) everything, everyone except the real culprit. You couldn't make it up.

  31. Ron

    Feb 10, 2016, 17:18 #83493

    CG - i reckon the USA truly deserves Trumpie. His entire being, character, behaviour and what he stands for befits the Country like no other. What a progression to be proud of, Washington to Trumpie in 200 odd years. I bet theyre proud of their history. Its as bad as Chelsea's.

  32. In The Luton End When Caesar Fell

    Feb 10, 2016, 17:14 #83492

    @mbg, you and Salt N Lineker are thinking of Steve Walsh Sr., papa of Wrighty's favourite Leicester captain / icon / nutter. As for Stan's ranch, never mind the oil, horses and cows - in preparation for drastic times, he'd need a quasi - fascistic bunker under that thing. The revenue gained from Barcelona tickets at an extra 30 quid each should get the ball rolling - a trip to East Asia in the summer, plus the windfall of a Champion's League qualifier should just about cover the rest (and then be written off as a capital expense for tax purposes, of course).

  33. anthony walters93

    Feb 10, 2016, 17:11 #83491

    jeff everyone is entitled to their opinions extreme like yours or not.all managers can be shirty when asked questions by the press fergie was a prime example mourinho van gaal guadiola recently.are they all weak mate? i do see what he's trying to do the majority of the time with decisions though don't necessarily agree with them all.nobody ever is going to be perfect.

  34. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2016, 17:09 #83490

    mbg, Sounds about right this poaching the wrong scout... you couldn't make it up ... it goes with the silly 42m and one pound only bid for Suarez, the signing a player out with a broken back malarkey ... and is the sort of thing that the clowns who run AFC who know nothing about football do.

  35. mbg

    Feb 10, 2016, 16:35 #83488

    jw, and according to Gary Lineker ( one of these so called self righteous pundits who has never managed but who I suspect knows more about Leicester than some self righteous AKB's) who is taking great delight in telling everyone (you don't have to Gary we're used to it) the scout we signed had nothing to do with bringing these players to Leicester it was another guy walsh or something like that, he says we signed the wrong man, (we know that too Gaz)now where have we heard that before ? it will come as no surprise what so ever. TOF and the lot of them not fit for purpose.

  36. CORNISH GOONER

    Feb 10, 2016, 16:14 #83487

    I do wish people on here would stop having a pop at our Stanley. I have seen the photo of the new homestead - the countryside isn't very nice is it? I think he is just taking precautions for the care of his family just in case that headcase Trump becomes Le President. So when we are nuked back into the stone age, he will have horses, cows & oil fields - self sufficiency at it's finest. Webster cannot compete of course but I did hear that he has installed panic rooms in his chateaux.

  37. mbg

    Feb 10, 2016, 16:12 #83486

    wengers ex wife married well too, she's now as rich as him, not because of Wal-Mart though.

  38. Tony Evans

    Feb 10, 2016, 16:01 #83485

    Hi Ron - Yeah could be 3rd time lucky for Hull if we go into 'coast' mode and are resting players prior to the Barca game. Agree with your predictions - I reckon we will win on Sunday, probably do OK at home v Barca, lose at the Lane and OT, and disappear without trace in Spain!

  39. anthony walters

    Feb 10, 2016, 15:42 #83484

    bard i felt we had the squad pre season to win the league however the reasoned criticism of fans is arsene is too cautious in the transfer market and as i said the goals issue could bite us on the ass i hope not.i want to kick on and win titles and champions league and have made allowances for the 9 years regarding selling our best players but now is time to really challenge the big boys.is arsene that man ?mmmmm i wait to see until seasons end. i do think the league is much tougher than ever from the bottom up tho the top teams arent as great as before.

  40. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2016, 15:30 #83483

    anthony walters,tbh I find rather a lot of anomalies in your views on Arsene one and one does not add up to two and two FA Cup wins recently are not really any endorsement to prove things are going well under Arsene's management, if anything considering our wage bill and the match day gate money and other revenues it only shows that Wenger is underachieving after 10 years without a league title and 20 in Europe with nothing but losers medals to show for his efforts. Regarding Welbeck he scores so few goals and generally runs around like an headless chicken with nothing to show for it. Campbell is a better player in my view - although like Danny Boy not really good enough to be anything other than a squad player. Arsene is an accountant first and a football manager second - if you remember this it helps when trying to work out what he is doing- or thinking. He also doesn't like being asked awkward questions by anyone and gets rather shirty with those who do this to him. To me this is the sign of a weak petulant man and not a confident strong one . His time was up years ago but circumstances have contrived to keep him at AFC and when looking at the millions he has stashed away for himself this contrasts markedly with him doing nothing to try and bring down ticket prices for supporters -the highest in football at AFC are according to him - part of the modern game. I see no redeeming features in the man at all. With him being a proven clown tactically at football - but a shrewd operator at lining his master's and his own pockets. He also talks more complete bollocks than anyone in football. With his views on clubs needing to spend money to buy success that he could not compete with -now changed to you don't need to spend big money to do so, being one big example of that . You couldn't make it up.

  41. Bard

    Feb 10, 2016, 15:24 #83482

    AW; I for one dont think its been all bad far from it but with the talent we have had at the club and the money he has had available he has underachieved. He has had plenty of time to make a go of producing a team that properly challenges. For complex reasons he shoots himself in the foot and then looks for excuses. We are talking about the 6th richest club in the world. If a couple of FAC's in 12 years is deemed good enough for many fans then it speaks of a club with nil ambition.

  42. Ron

    Feb 10, 2016, 15:00 #83481

    Probably right there Tony. It remains AWs hobby horse, the CL. Im sure its a big thing in his life that hes never won it. Strange you mention the Hull tie. This could be the one that proves to be the banana skin. Home tie, lower league they must still have regrets and feelings that had it gone to 3-0 in 2014 it was game over perhaps that day. Its a typical type of game for the Arse to lose isnt it. Barca? I think they ll make a fist of it in the first leg oddly enough. Maybe a draw. The pain will be felt over there. They ll brick themselves and wont relish that at all. It could be a bit embarrassing, though maybe not to a G Nev extent Beat Leics. A loss in the NLD and at OT is my gut feeling.

  43. anthony walters

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:34 #83480

    firstly jeff decent point on fizman and i meant blog not email i am not really computer savvy. the wenger must go or stay and football management which i have years of experience of. making mistakes along the way because i'm human as arsene does of course people who have never done it can know far more than me and be right when i'm wrong .arsene says everyone is entitled to their opinion.the wenger out or stay issue is open to debate and not a totally black and white good or bad issue as i said before there are reasoned arguements for both.akb amg i am arsenal not either.what i do see is a good team with some world class players and when i look up from my seat in the north bank i see fa cup winners 2014 and 2015 .i don't see it as all bad . i am disappointed in wenger he has not seen the fans on ticket pricing issues.on the pitch for the title challenge if we fail i can't help thinking with danny welbeck being out most of the season relying too heavily on the underated giroud as our only real centre forward for so long without bringing in at least a loan signing to share his burden may have proved costly.i hope not.shall we leave it at that now?though i see your points of view from your blogs i doubt the visa versa. come on gunners

  44. Tony Evans

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:28 #83479

    Nick - watch Wenger put out an under-strength side against Hull in the vain notion that we actually have a chance against Barca. I've written off the CL for us already (would love to be surprised but would settle for not being stuffed out of sight) and if we lose on Sunday the FA Cup will again be our only realistic target. Wenger must be pragmatic, but realism and Wenger are like chalk and cheese.

  45. Ron

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:24 #83478

    OK Bard lad. I thought the style looked familiar. Ill prep for a psalm or two and a distorted Old Testament reading then.

  46. Alsace

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:23 #83477

    In the streets of Berlin in May 1945 there were officials going round hanging "traitors" and the leadership was quite happy with the destruction of the civilisation because the people had, "let down" the leadership. Jack's comment reminds me of that mindset. For every 10 points that Petr Cech saves us, Wenger's tactics during games will and do cost us 20. But football is all about opinions isn't it, and if Jack thinks that my not wanting Arsene Wenger to be the manager is somehow holding us back, then perhaps I should take some mood enhancing substances and have a joker like grin on my face as we lurch to yet another humiliation at the hands of the arch clown. Meanwhile, the club have swiftly abandoned the (circa) £20 ticket price hike that they put us under last week. Apparently ( according to their blurb) I don't understand the fairness of their category tweak. They are right, I don't. I pay my money and get 26 games. That is the deal. If we play more games then I pay more, If less, less. Perhaps you need a degree in economics to understand the nuances.

  47. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:14 #83476

    Jack - just brilliant so we are to blame the supporters (apart from you of course) this is a step beyond the usual whereby it's not the managers fault it's the players. Now we know we are all to blame, how do we fix it? You see I think you and Jameson are probably one and the same. This leads me to believe you are going to bring religion into it as well. Get over yourself. Ps just to add that our away support is generally well regarded. Err we've not done very well away have we?

  48. Mark

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:14 #83475

    Stan now owns 10% of Texas; Wenger owns various chateaux in France. Meanwhile Arsenal actually suffered from under-investment in its playing staff over the last 6-7 years. 2 Marquee signings in Ozil + Alexis to keep the fans happy, spending levels high, people coming to see them; meanwhile Wenger cleverly puts average players around them and collectively it adds up to 4th place and maybe a cup run but more importantly a healthy annual profit. It is a succesful Business model but not a sports persons dream. that is why arsenal fans love watching the likes of Real barca City Chelsk continue to do everything that they can to win trophies and be the best. I.E. SPORT !

  49. Bard

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:13 #83474

    Ron as Mark has said Jack is Jamerson in disguise. He posts under all sorts of names but the content and style is the same.

  50. Ron

    Feb 10, 2016, 14:05 #83473

    Jack - you ought get more perhaps if you still think London is the best City to be in or even to visit in Europe. Its still the financial hub. It stops there. As for the fans holding Arsenal back? Have you just arrived back from a dozen yr sabbatical on Jupiter?

  51. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2016, 13:56 #83472

    Too true mbg, but it does show the small club mentality that is at work at AFC. Jack puts it down ludicrously to the supporters not acting big time ,when you look at Wenger5's record in Europe,with more pain to come shortly, us all going around bragging about how great we are would be a case of call for the men in white coats ! And I don't mean those old hot-dog sellers.The deluded heads stuck up Arsene's rear end AKB anyway do do some of this malarkey that Jack suggests we all should do - but it only makes them look like big time Charlies. You couldn't make it up.

  52. mbg

    Feb 10, 2016, 13:27 #83469

    jw, your dead right there, the wrong Leicester employee has been snapped up. And it won't have done wengers ego much good that. Anyway It's very doubtful this Scout will do the same job with us as we have an old fraud of a manager who listens to know one and takes no advice. And by some miracle he's allowed to do his job and a couple of gems are unearthed we know who'll be taking the plaudits, and anyway they'll not remain gems for long if and when TOF gets his claws into them.

  53. Jack

    Feb 10, 2016, 13:23 #83468

    The fact that we are treading water is nothing to do with the manager or the owner or the general running of AFC,It's the victim mentality and small time approach of large sections of our support.All this garbage the media turns out about us being long suffering and not getting what we deserve is hogwash.We need to start acting like we are the biggest club in the most prestigious city in Europe,stop moaning about minor issues support the club as best you can and we will be top four in Europe not top 16.The other big clubs must be laughing at us the way we act,so too the smaller clubs who are closing the gap.

  54. Red Pig

    Feb 10, 2016, 13:19 #83467

    How and why do your articles keep getting published on here Graham?

  55. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2016, 13:01 #83466

    AW, your initials are a clue as to what your points are really all about....now then here is what you posted last night "end of any more emails to you because all you focus on is the bad which of course there is bound to be some. many big clubs would love to be in our position.that we are where we are is mainly down to arsene chelsea spurs liverpool everton have to build stadiums leeds overspent look at them and newcastle.is wenger the man to lead us on is open to REASONED debate. i love arsenal "....... Okay where to start commenting on these numerous scatter brained platitudes .. well for starters I have never received any e-mails from you sunbeam .... so as I said earlier you obviously have problems ... saying that Wenger at 67 is the man to lead us on is not reasonable debate - it's just nonsense... also Danny Fiszman was responsible for building the stadium and not Wenger try and keep up with things... you are obviously though a raving hard on AKB but try to pretend you are not one and you have posted these sort of views on here claiming that Arsene can't be replaced under other names to me before. My views on Wenger are that after 20 years of failure in Europe and no title challenge put up since 2004 ,not even a second place finish, , are that it is time he retired - in fact he should have done so donkey's years ago .I don't believe that he will win the league this season and even if by some chance or other he does that would not change my views on his mismanagement over the past 10 years -that includes this season as well by the way especially so in Europe and in the transfer market last summer and in January ,and that he should leave at the end of this season .His legacy is becoming more tarnished by his greed and incompetence and his arrogance with every (yawn) passing year...

  56. Bard

    Feb 10, 2016, 12:53 #83464

    Nick; i would have thought that the Leicester game is the defining one. win it and we are in the hunt lose it and its moreorless goodnight. I couldnt call it other than the fact that Leicester will get a quite a few chances and it then will come down to strikers. The truth is that we should win it as Leicester cost nothing and we cost a lot and as Wenger has repeated ad nausem, money matters. If we lose it what does that tell us about Wengers project ?

  57. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2016, 11:46 #83463

    I stand corrected, Wal-Mart heiress Ann Walton Kroenke, is currently worth $4.6 billion or £3.2 billion. Stan is worth $7.36 billion or £5.04 billion. Quite entitled to buy themselves a little ole ranch in N. Texas for £501m or half what Chelsea has cost Abramovich.

  58. Nick

    Feb 10, 2016, 11:17 #83461

    We have a run of games coming up which will define our season, the home game vs Leicester, the home cup tie vs Hull, the game vs Barcelona and the away trip to Manure, then a home game vs Swansea followed by a trip to the old enemy.If we win the first two draw the third win at old Trafford and beat Swansea and at the very least avoid defeat at ****e fart lane,then I will believe we can at least win the title, fail dismally in that sequence and our season is over apart from the annual top four race, this in a season where the title is eminently winnable would be an abject failure , bottling on an epic scale. The fact is had our " manager" strengthened properly in two transfer windows and had the team actually possessed the fabled mental strength's Wenger always bangs on about, we would be something like eight points clear going into this run of games with a better gd than we have, most if not all of the points we've dropped this term were in games we were more than capable of winning, even with the staff we already had, what's been lacking is motivation, spirit and the legendary mental strength, Wenger missed his vocation he should have been a politician the man is all about spin !

  59. anthony walters

    Feb 10, 2016, 11:05 #83460

    jeff firstly you called wenger a liar over giroud something you cannot prove. secondly calling me an akb having read my criticisms is wrong. it is clear i can criticise wenger and understand some want to move on i can see other peoples point of view .you cannot you only see from your anti wenger stance.

  60. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2016, 10:51 #83459

    @Bard, Stan married well, his wife is richer than he is.

  61. jeff wright

    Feb 10, 2016, 10:29 #83458

    anrhony walters you obviously have platitude problems,get it sorted son is my advice. You accuse me of being influenced by what I see or hear in the media regarding Wenger and then say that you read reports in the media that Giroud had an injured foot before the Chelsea game so it must be true! You couldn't make it up.

  62. Mark

    Feb 10, 2016, 9:58 #83457

    The very thing that the manager talks about - our strong mentality - is the very thing that is most questionnable about his teams. That plus continous bargain hunting on transfers when we are now a rich club, makes many people feel that the manager is a fraud. his heart is not on his sleeve, he does not incite the passion of the fans and the distance between fans and club has really grown these last 3-4 years

  63. Bard

    Feb 10, 2016, 9:45 #83456

    So Stan buys a $500m ranch but we can only afford Elneny in the window ? Anyone see the contradiction somewhere.

  64. Bard

    Feb 10, 2016, 8:48 #83455

    Westie in that case theres not much point in supporting Arsenal at present as they are not winners

  65. Westlower

    Feb 10, 2016, 8:40 #83454

    @Templegate, If it gives you comfort I've backed 1,060 losers on the flat racing season (March - Nov) since 2005. That's a losing rate of 60.5% on my total bets. Perhaps explains why I can take Arsenal losing in my stride, as I've had so much more practice than most when it comes to losing. From my current outstanding football bets there appears to be some losers among them, namely: 2 bets on Arsenal to finish outside the top 4 at 12/1 & 9/1; Chelsea to win FA Cup at 7/1, on the basis it's unlikely Arsenal will win it for 3 years on the spin. TH to win PL at 12/1, based on best GD%. Man U to win PL at 7/1 based on £250m spend +LVG (that's lost already), Chelsea to finish top 4 at 5/1 (another loser). Confirmation that although I make a profit (55.1% average per year since 2005 from my horse betting) there is much scope for improvement on my football betting. Mostly fun bets but I get serious when I think it's justified. My next 'serious' football bet will be AFC not to win at OT. I'll steer clear of the Barcelona & Hull Cup games. Barcelona are a rare item in being odds on to win at the Emirates, a distinction they share with Bayern Munich. No value there. I note your namesake Templegate is keeping his Sun readers in the poor house by currently being -£23.18 in debt on his nap bets covering the NH season. It's a rare breed of person who makes betting pay. Betting can be bad for your health & your wealth. After 56 years of betting it's become a way of life for me. The best piece of advice I've ever been given is simply - in life, always back winners, but that's far easier said than done!

  66. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 10, 2016, 8:29 #83453

    Jack + Jameson = Horses Arse

  67. Jack

    Feb 10, 2016, 8:13 #83452

    I have always thought the WOR are too influenced by the mad rantings of Adrian Durham.One minute it's buy this player or that player,or this players useless,the next it's ticket prices or petty complaining about everything or anything.These people are making us a laughing stock with their constant attention seeking and always needing to be heard,even stranger most of them are old bastards.

  68. anrhony walters

    Feb 10, 2016, 7:14 #83451

    jeff there were many press reports before the chelsea match regarding giroud being doubtful and facing a fitness test on his ankle so you calling wenger a liar over it being part of the reason he took him off is just an uncalled for accusation. people like myself give good reasons for keeping wenger or examples of his achievements we are deluded akbs making more excuses.only your reasons to get rid of him count. in fact this pathetic akb amg nonsense i find childish as i do the pathetic jason cundy and adriam durham radio show which is jeremy kyle style radio trash. you consider yourself 100 right on all you say and thats it any differing opinions don't count.

  69. David

    Feb 10, 2016, 6:52 #83450

    As the old chant goes, nice one Cyril, nice one son.

  70. Cyril

    Feb 10, 2016, 0:28 #83448

    Graham, you are a bit naughty there son. I've read both pieces. It's just emotion. We love our team and we want to win. Ofcourse your going to knock the geezer if he constantly fails. Sorry for falling into north London archway council estate stereotype, but you have forced my hand. I have simple leanings and simple demands. One of which is my beloved Arsenal do very well. Regardless of whom is at the helm. Please spare me the lecture!

  71. anthony walters

    Feb 09, 2016, 23:41 #83447

    arsenal fan jeff not an akb i have criticsms of wenger ie ox substitution v manu,denilson so many games and birmingham away in the league 2008 team selection and his attitude after eduardos brioken leg cost us the title. so i see and appreciate your side .where we differ is you only see bad it's simple.there is no manager who can get everything right.

  72. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2016, 23:14 #83446

    anthony walters, what does any of what you are claiming have to do with Wenger telling porkies about why he subbed Giroud against Chelsea>? As for us playing with 10 men that is a chance you take if as plodding Per did you foul a player to prevent a goal scoring opportunity . We got away with Flim Flams two footed tackle on Sunday against Bournemouth otherwise we would have played with 10 men again. We will have to be careful against Leicester the media love them and the ref will be well aware of the leniency shown by Friend on Sunday to us and could play at being god,as they often do... .As for the rest of your rant well it is just the usual AKB everything is going great under Arsene malarkey and others would love to be in our place with him in charge.This is normally is the spuds that are used for an example . Obviously though not this season ... ! You couldn't make it up.

  73. Templegate

    Feb 09, 2016, 23:07 #83445

    Gamblers who regularly brag about winning ....... aren't regularly winners.

  74. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 23:01 #83444

    jj, yes apologising if he annoys some people (patronising or what) yes as if, even after all this time still trying to defend they're/his beloved messiah with out of date balderdash so easily rubbished. I hope he has another one tomorrow.

  75. Michael Marx

    Feb 09, 2016, 23:00 #83443

    Maybe for passion read hatred or is it the other way around? My view re Arsene remains unchanged since the early part of this season. He should go at the end of the season. I admire him enormously and his record is outstanding, BUT. The BUT is that if we win the title this season, he should step down and hand over a winning side and squad to a successor. That will make succession - always a very difficult moment as we see elsewhere - a much easier proposition. If we don't win the title this year, he should step down - yes, with all our heartfelt gratitude - because he missed the only open goal that really mattered. Michael

  76. bob

    Feb 09, 2016, 22:54 #83442

    Clearly you are unaware of your limitations because the correct use of English is certainly one of them. Maybe it's me but I find the use of language in these articles bloody difficult and the lack of heres that word again (even though it wasn't used before) punctuation so so difficult in todays so so era when I am not a writer. Do me a favour Gooner - if I want to read someone trying to look more intelligent than they really are there are plenty of national newspapers I can read. Absolute nonsensical so so bollocks. Not sorry if I offended your circular arse but I am not affraid to say it - don't tell me I can't have an opinion about your dyslexic bull**** just because I haven't forced a circle on anyone before. Really? If you need content do some cat memes at least they can string a paragraph together.

  77. anthony walters

    Feb 09, 2016, 22:39 #83441

    jeff i didnt make this up !the point i am trying to get through to you is we played 10v11v chelsea for near 80 minutes. we won back to back fa cups beating spurs manu liverpool and everton on the way.it can't totally be down to luck.anyone who has a totally vindictive anti wenger mindset like yours cannot see any good only bad.this is the point graham perry was making. i have my criticisms of wenger but as graham perry has said but people like you can only see the bad and slag wenger off when we lose. we have had some bad results this season but we have beaten manu man city bayern and leicester away. end of any more emails to you because all you focus on is the bad which of course there is bound to be some. many big clubs would love to be in our position.that we are where we are is mainly down to arsene chelsea spurs liverpool everton have to build stadiums leeds overspent look at them and newcastle.is wenger the man to lead us on is open to REASONED debate. i love arsenal

  78. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 22:13 #83440

    Be careful what you wish for ? I haven't heard that one before. You couldn't make it up.

  79. Dartford gooner

    Feb 09, 2016, 21:51 #83439

    Graham Westie Jack what most of us wobs are suffering from is frustration. Year after year we get close then for one reason or another we always mess it up . Take Europe 16 years and only one final when we had some of the best players in the world. I liken it to taking a beautiful woman to bed 16 times and never getting to make love to her.If you don't make it after 16 times you must be doing something wrong.In nearly 20 years I can't think of one occasion when Arsene ever said "I was wrong and its my fault". If he can't see his own faults its no wonder he can't see the faults in some of his players.

  80. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2016, 19:55 #83438

    anthony walters, what I am saying is that you are accepting Wenger's claim that he pulled off Giroud because he was injured before the game as though it is written in stone. I say it was a tactical substitution that did not work .I base this on what Wenger himself had said a week before that if you need pace up front then Walcott is the better option. Had Wally scored and won us a point, or the 3 of them, we would not have heard anything about Giroud being injured,instead it would have been claimed that Wenger had made an inspired substitution. The crowd straight away knew it was a blunder because Wally has been struggling since his return from injury - whereas at least slower than wet varnish drying on a wooden post in the rain big Olly had at least been scoring goals. You don't need to have worked a day in football to work that out. Wenger gets paid 8m a year to get these decisions right-the problem is he is always getting them wrong.As he did in leaving out Cech and playing Ospina in what appeared to him to be 'easy games' against Zagreb and Olympiacos in Europe. He will carry on making mistakes as well because he never learns from them. I saw on the news earlier that Stan has poached the Leicester chief scout -or whatever he is called - the man who is credited with finding all of those players for the Foxes that cost less than Ozil's right thumb - you don't need him however to find players who cost 100m .So that tells you what Stanley's future plans are. My guess is that circumstances played a part in this unlikely scenario at Leicester,they were lucky not to get relegated last season and their current manager, as should Chelsea's one , must get some credit for improving the results and performances of the players who previously were struggling .Trying to replicate this Leicester scenario will not be easy for the ex-Leicester scout- Stan should be replacing Wenger with Ranieri ! Stan must be rubbing his hands with glee though at the thought of being able to keep more of the big multi-million TV bucks that he will get his grubby paws on next season. You couldn't make it up.

  81. David

    Feb 09, 2016, 19:42 #83437

    LEULZ - all true - £8.5 million...67 years old. There is an OAP mafia that writes in support of such ludicrous pension schemes on this site.

  82. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 19:23 #83436

    LEULZ, great post, no pussy footing about, the truth told like it is, (the way wengerites hate) the way it should be. Post of the day.

  83. anthony walters

    Feb 09, 2016, 18:59 #83435

    jeff wright .i am not an akb never have been i am simply saying the decision was rightly or wrongly a reasonable decision.if giroud had broken down wenger would have been slaughtered.i am saying the biggest reason we lost the match was the 10 v 11 scenario.everyone is entitled to an opinion all have good points including yourself however its easy to say could of would of should of.arsene makes mistakes he isn't god but the overall job he does is very good .the reasoned debate on both sides is could someone move us on to greater achievements ?possibly yes but be careful what you wish for the new man could be a lot worse.as for tactics people in my humble view overate them far too much.guadiola is for instance the so called great messiah for many football fans but every coach in the 92 we have in england would win virtually all what he's done in germany and spain with his inherited team as luis enrique has proved.

  84. Jack

    Feb 09, 2016, 18:56 #83434

    We do seem to have a lot more complainers following us than other teams,of which most seem rather dim-witted and empty headed in their reasonings.If I was running AFC I wouldn't entertain you WOR for five minutes and would tell you to either get behind the team and our brilliant manager or go and take a running jump in the Thames.We are not living in the neanderthal seventies or eighties where mob rule is the order of the day so why the same old gruntings bellyaching about the same old arguments everyday.If you've nothing positive to say go and join the ST waiting list for the new theater of comedy down at the Lane.

  85. bromley boy

    Feb 09, 2016, 18:39 #83433

    graham, any genuine Arsenal fan on here wants Wenger to succeed i would guess even the most vocal wenger out fan still wants Arsenal and wenger to be parading the premier league trophy in upper street in may . mistakes have been made eg in the transfer market and the medical set up at our club none of us need to have worked a day in football to see that.by the way im neither in the wenger in or out camp im one of those who just want to see us win trophys and compete with Barca and Bayern as promised

  86. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 09, 2016, 18:26 #83432

    This is almost the same wording as the last Circular, though in neither does the author share what this 'taking responsibility' should amount to for Wenger. Nothing, I assume. I see Badarse hasn't changed at all during his short time away. Incapable of learning, incapable of seeing how he comes across to others, we're destined for a few more weeks of this annoyance before he grandly announces yet another exit, the picture of injured innocence once more. Followed by yet another comeback, utterly unaware of how increasingly daft it makes him look. Repeat ad infinitum. The man is a recidivist.

  87. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2016, 18:24 #83431

    anthony walters, if as you claim, based on what Wenger said , youi can't possibly know yourself, that Giroud was injured before the game with Chelsea then why did Wenger start with him >? Giroud's shocked expression and at first refusal to come off ,Wenger had to scream at him to make him do so,hardly suggests that he felt that he needed subbing,and neither did the crowd . I'm not buying this excuse that Wenger came up with AFTER the game was over to try and cover for his mistake in not taking off Wally .It was obviously a tactical decision to take off Giroud instead of Wally and we all know how good Wenger is on tactics,don't we now. Wenger tried to pretend that he had no choice in taking off Giroud instead of admitting that he made a wrong one. Of course those who have never worked a day in football can't possibly understand Arsene's genius,only those, like yourself ,who have done can do so. There are more football coaches on here that at the FA ! You couldn't make it up.

  88. Alsace

    Feb 09, 2016, 18:07 #83430

    Of course he isn't the devil incarnate. Nobody is going to die if we don't win the league. Life is more important than football. But if you are paid £8 million a year to do a job, either do it properly or retire to Cap D'Antibes. The weather is nicer than N5 1BU.

  89. Bojangles

    Feb 09, 2016, 18:03 #83429

    Sorry should have said threw not through!

  90. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:50 #83428

    Mark, there you are then don't confuse betting with club loyalty, remember that now, and from an AKB, and other AKB's and wengerites have the gall to accuse others of not being real fans and supporters because they/we differentiate between their messiah and Arsenal. You really couldn't make it up, but you have to laugh.

  91. Bojangles

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:44 #83427

    The Rev Brian Badarse through down the letter in fury. "Once more, that bloody synod have rejected me! Bastards, bastards! Can they not see it? The Arch Deacon gig should be mine! ****ers, ****it!" Badarse picked up the letter again. " so let's see what pathetic reason this time! "Oh I see those quisling parishioners again. Bloody dark moanies been complaining" "Just because I write up a historical review of Oswald Moseley they bloody complain to the Bishop, What the hell is wrong with people these days!" Then the Rev had a thought... "Now if those bloody moaners really want something to talk about. What if I slaughter a Goat on the alter and turn the Crucifix's upside down? Then guess who rides into town to save the day? Yeah me." "Maybe I could get this Archdeacon gig after all!"..... To be continued....

  92. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:31 #83426

    jj, it must also be difficult trying to defend an old fraud of a manager (i'd hate to have that job)and his outdated ways when it's virtually impossible, but still some try, mostly with out dated barrel scrapes (or odds) even when slapped down having the defence quite rightly rubbished time and time again, but still they try, wenger loves a tryer.

  93. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:25 #83425

    @Mark, I completely understand why you would be appalled by me betting against AFC. It's a common fallacy as I also bet on them to win & draw. Each match is assessed on its merits. Making a consistent profit from betting has nothing to do with school playground loyalty or hatred. 13 years ago I had a substantial 4 figure sum on AFC to win the FA Cup final v Southampton, my biggest football bet. My biggest football win was on Man U completing the treble in 99, followed by TH getting a draw when 2-4 down at Highbury. Always expect the unexpected. I backed & won money from Arsenal beating Bournemouth, ditto drawing with Southampton, not scoring at Stoke & losing to CFC. I will be backing Arsenal to beat Leicester & losing at OT. I confess to backing TH at 12/1 to win the PL because their goal for/against ratio is vastly superior to every other club. They still represent good value at 5/1, should they get a result at the Etihad they'll be 2/1 or less. Don't confuse betting with club loyalty. I only retaliated with 'quislings' after earlier being called an idiot. Throw a rock at me and I'll throw it back with interest.

  94. anthony walters

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:11 #83424

    a prime example of ridiculous criticism was wenger taking giroud off v chelsea. fact he had only just passed a fitness test .he sacrificed hold up play of an in form possibly injured player for walcotts pace. perfectly reasonable decision. its easy to sit in studios and criticise or say what he should have done but having been in that positon myself as a football coach whatever tactics you use you are playing virtually a whole match with 10v11.odds are not very much on your side and we actually performed well. in fact so much analysis from that match was poor or lazy victimisation of flamini the current scapegoat for nonsense.for chelseas goal according to jenas he got in gabriels way organising which made gabriel hesitate .i agree with that however monreal ambled towards the crosser then turned his back lazily allowing the cross far too easily.do watch the goal again and ask how monreal arguably our best defender this year escaped criticism.

  95. jjetplane

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:07 #83423

    Baddie only gets the scraps after the more senior disciple St Graham (the patron saint of er Arsene patrons ...) has taken the lion's share of unwarranted attacks and with caked blood and glistening eyes he makes his way back up the Stairway to Heaven/Westlower House and therein to script more sermonic fayre for those that know not what Wenger does ..... Good old time religion .....

  96. Ron

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:03 #83422

    Mark - double standards? Badarse? No, never, surely not? He stumbled upon 'quisling' in his dictionary once way back before he spewed it forth on here in lectures time and tortuous time again. I think he just took a liking to the word. Being a Bennite, it maybe resonated a bit.

  97. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 17:00 #83421

    Nick, another good post from yourself, a lot of things/facts there the wengerites very conveniently forgot/keep forgetting about, with some home truths thrown in, it's good to keep reminding them. And your right if we do win it it will be despite him, and we'll all be Larry's that day no matter what the wengerites think, and that's what pisses off and annoys AKB's like wengers chief ball boy more than anything.

  98. Bard

    Feb 09, 2016, 16:45 #83420

    Fellow travellers on the Arsene fun bus. ( its a long journey I know). I have some relational news to share with you. I havent managed to finish on top of Helen for over a decade and am wondering whether its time to chuck in the towel. I have given it a good go and have had some stirring efforts coming from behind but sadly its is too long since I last triumphed. I thought I had discovered my mojo as I managed a couple of quickies in Wembley but they were false dawns. In my defence I have often been injured and unable to perform properly also I have wondered whether lady luck has been on my side. Helen has tired of my excuses and wants a proper bloke who is used to being on top. I have decided to retire at the end of the season and am hoping the club will build an erection in my honour.

  99. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 09, 2016, 16:40 #83419

    Badarse as you decided to use the term Quisling against other Arsenal supporters surely inappropriate, disgusting actually. Then a man who bets on Arsenal losing also throws this out. So is it really anymore inappropriate then when you use it?

  100. Badarse

    Feb 09, 2016, 16:36 #83418

    Thank you for minimising the insults Ron, though narcissist and hypocrite are not mild and are personal, of course the threat you perceive will not allow for 'no response', but in fairness I did include your profile. Sad that apart from the 'mickey taking' you see it as tripe. When inequality is witnessed some react. It doesn't have to be extreme as in racism, it can be soft or subtle as in blustering posts on the Online Gooner. That's all I do chum, I am the 'Mirror man', just holding it up for those to stare into. Of course I could hold up the Sun, but there is a danger the WOR would just begin reading it. I do enjoy the many religious analogies attributed to me, as a dog eared, rather than dog collared humanist it is faintly amusing...but only ever so faintly. Be careful you'll have the wrath of khan-no hang on that was Star Trek-I mean the wrath of Jamerson pour down on you-he may believe you are still able to be saved.

  101. Ron

    Feb 09, 2016, 16:19 #83417

    I 'don't lecture' yet about 50 lines of tripe?. I 'speak my truths'. Oh dear me Badarse, self indulgent even by your narcissistic, hypocritical standards. Are you sure you were never in the temple ousting the money lenders once upon a time?

  102. anthony walters

    Feb 09, 2016, 16:17 #83416

    great article.for what it's worth i am a gooner neither an akb or amg.i have criticisms of wenger but so much on here and other blogs is ridiculous ill informed nonsense. for

  103. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 16:11 #83415

    SKG, and don't for get this keeper was handed to him (and he still had to think about/consider it) and it's not long term, only a stop gap (and lets hope he doesn't get injured) god help us if mr bungle is still around when we need to sign another one.

  104. Badarse

    Feb 09, 2016, 16:02 #83414

    Last things first as we know he who laughs laughs, last laugh laughs. Mark dear chap, please consult the Oxford English Dictionary for the meaning of quisling-westlower doesn't qualify. Ron you are blowing hard my friend, but why so needlessly rude and aggressive, is it a cover for an inadequacy? Bard, you old upstart crow you. You declare you want debate, then trample on a viewpoint. You know the score, we all do. A chap mentions the AW Oki Koki situation and some scurry out from dark places to say he is, 'behind the times' and, 'it's been done to death'. Debate isn't required we all know that. People have differing views of most things, not least football. With it's team selection, tactics, substituting-who/when/why, buying, selling, giving out contracts-the valuation of the individual in doing so, injuries-when to let go, when to persevere, grinding out results, playing with freedom, it's a veritable minefield. Meanwhile back in reality any manager has a parallel existence, notably their life. I never lecture Bard, I speak my truths. I know what most are playing at-this site isn't real. jj is at it again-'how often do you go?' How naff is that? Tell him so, be a man-I know it will upset Ron but go for it. As mentioned before he decries any Arsenal fan from afar-check with jj before claiming to be an Arsenal fan, please supply postcode, inside leg measurement, and anything else this little 'thought policeman' demands. Hypocritical? You decide, but an anti-Tory running in a pack of Tories, supporting an anti-liberal position? Well you tell me. Then if anyone fails to meet his stringent standards they are subject to his acerbic wit-hilarious! Many need to gripe, some of it can be good for you, but those who would have to live with it, and endure it constantly, would be silently screaming. So get to grips with gripes gentlemen, please. Nick you don't get it. Being old doesn't give you all the answers, why even I don't have them all. Do you not realise that you character assassinate AW, you claim supposition as fact, then when held responsible for those strident views you react, claiming that it's unfair. That is bemusing. Look, it's OK to have little or no respect for AW, I have virtually none for most celebrities. Music is an example. I love a sound, disturbing if the voice belongs to a berk, sometimes it can actually put me off. How fitting would it be if on a music forum somebody kept complaining about a recording artist, asking him to stop the sounds? Daft, is what that is. Graham, I think what we are witnessing is a new direction in PL football. It may be a trend which lasts for a decade-longer even, or until something else, some other ingredient alters the mix, or it may turn out to be a flash in the pan season after all. That is the beauty of life, the uncertainty, the unexpected, sometimes roaring at you from out of the shadows-sounds like Ron again-no he is a pussycat, the vitriol and insults are his armour plating. I think this 'open' season may well be repeated nest season, and the one after that, plus any new 'buyers' wanting a slice of the freshly baked cake, creating another 'rich' potentially elitist outfit. I reckon that the oft used term, 'If we don't win it this season...', is perhaps being used by a number of clubs near the top. Even those outside the business end like MU/CFC must be of that opinion, 'Oh if only we had kept it together the title was there for the taking.' Just a point, another cannot create hatred, it is not a symbiotic emotion. It dwells within us all and needs controlling at all times. Please never blame a personal shortcoming on another, unless Charlie Drake was witnessed climaxing in Ted Drake's shirt, besides Montmorency. A little obscure Bard, possibly a bit woolly, but not a lecture.

  105. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 15:59 #83413

    I knew there was something wrong when wally wasn't wheeled out to tell us how great wenger is, and we had to listen to the incoherent Ramsey instead, who obviously didn't do his job satisfactorily as we now have OGL's chief ball boy mr circular trying to make up for it. You couldn't make it up.

  106. CORNISH GOONER

    Feb 09, 2016, 15:52 #83412

    Dear Revd. Perry - "Oh yes he is!" A bit late for the panto season really but I am pretty sure there will plenty of pantomime performances in the coming weeks. It's a shame Webster didn't over-indulge at Christmas - a lengthy spell of "les trots" would have sidelined him & given an opportunity to Bouldy & Co to keep things simple & demonstrate there is more ability in this team & the backroom staff than most of us are given to think. What on earth is the point of supporting a proven recidivist of a manager? Time you came off that medication.

  107. LEULZ

    Feb 09, 2016, 15:43 #83411

    Graham graham graham...Lord. Give up. Seriously. You're a total embarrassment. The mere fact that YOIR article yet again peddles the AKB myth "Arsene worked miracles to keep us in top 4 when we were forced to sell our best players blabla". Oh do shut up. Leicester City this season are proving that just because you don't have loadsa money, doesn't mean you can't succeed! In the years Wenger was "keeping us at the top" (errrr you mean finishing 4th then, about 20 pts off top), the Arsenal wage bill was over £100m. With inflation, that would be about £150m today! Leicester's isn't even £50m and yet they are competing. So honestly, shove your pathetic excuses up your Arsene. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Wenger is an arrogant, egomaniac, dishonest liar. He has earned millions in salary whilst crying about the high wages in football. Isn't it weird he therefore renegotiated his deal to get paid £8.5m a year? And for what? Finishing 4th??! He's consistently dismissive to fans. He talks about morality but was caught cheating very publicly on his wife FFS. He lost 6-3, 5-1 at Anfield, 6-0 at Chelsea and 3-0 at Everton. In the SAME season. He lost a cup final to a relegated Birmingham. Knocked out the league cup by Bradford. Threw away a 4-0 lead at Newcastle. When his pathetic management is questions he gets rude. I have no respect for Wenger and even less so for bum-licking sycophants like you Graham. As I said before, once this Fraud of a "manager" leaves the club - and he will one day - you and your cult-like muppets should also follow him out the door.

  108. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2016, 15:13 #83410

    The fortuitous FA Cup win over Hull ,we were 2-0 down after 20 minutes and lucky it was not 3-0 ,saved Wenger's hide .He was on his way out in ignominy from AFC after 9 years of failure to win anything at all.Other than his own self created 4th place trophy that he celebrated winning as it were a league title on one occasion .Even defeats in Europe on a regular basis season after season were claimed to be victories.Then there were the 'it's how you play the game excuses,yeah,8-2 and 6-0 hammerings and 4-0 and other leads regularly lost are wonderful to watch ! The stadium is impacting on Wenger's ability to compete with richer rivals was exposed by the Diamond Geezer Danny Fiszman as being bullshine .But still some believe it along with the other excuses for Wenger's failures in Europe and for no first or even second place finish in the league since 2004. You couldn't make it up

  109. Gaz

    Feb 09, 2016, 15:00 #83409

    Give any manager an unlimited amount of time at one of the worlds biggest, wealthiest and best supported Clubs and at some point he'll win the odd trophy. IF Wenger wins the title this season it doesn't in any way whatsoever means he's been vindicated simply that he's finally stumbled across a season where all his main rivals have been so poor it doesn't really matter if he makes the same old mistakes...

  110. Nick

    Feb 09, 2016, 14:59 #83408

    Westflower, you isolate phrases and.points and ridicule them without bothering to look at the context they were made in, in modern times for a club with Arsenals resources a top four finish is the minimum a manager should achieve, you have often stated that we generally finish where we should according to those resources, what will you say if we finish below Leicester and the spuds this term? Project youth DID fail at Monaco on a TEAM level your Demi gods sacking proves that it also failed on a TEAM level at the Arsenal ! Or did I do a rip van winkle and sleep through ten years of title triumph, cups won and to the wire challenges? NO other top club in Europe would have put up with the barren years we have and I repeat the stadium move is a red herring, we had an excellent deal on the mortgage, we could still have strengthened our side and kept our top performers but Wengers used the stadium deal as an excuse NOT to do so, the acquisitions of Ozil and Sanchez do not put the lie to that statement, they were the minimum he could get away with, proof of that is had in this seasons parsimony during the transfer window's, and the farcical Louis Suarez non deal, another ten million would have secured his signature but Wenger and his allies would not pay the going rate, who now thinks it would have been money wasted ? Speculate to accumulate is a foreign idea to Wenger, except when it comes to his own remuneration.Those of us who have seen through your master are no less supporters of the Arsenal, I do not vilify him during games I want us to win every game we play it ruins my weekend or day whenever we lose or snatch a draw from the jaws of victory, if we do win the league I shall be as happy as Larry, but I maintain if that happens it will be DESPITE, Wengers mistakes and it will be a double-edged sword if such success means a new contract for him, if we do it he should then leave , being able to go out on a high, however lucky that may have been .

  111. David

    Feb 09, 2016, 14:58 #83407

    The WOBs, for want of a better phrase, are well known on this site, but only rarely is there anything nasty - and not usually from the regulars. However, Graham, it's the condescending attitude - that is well put across in this article - to criticism of Wenger that is the biggest wind-up. Maybe it's deliberate?

  112. NickF

    Feb 09, 2016, 14:49 #83406

    You say that if Arsenal fail to win the title this season, the manager must take responsibility. Will he though? He not going to quit and if rumours are true he will get a new 2 year deal whether we win it or not.

  113. jjetplane

    Feb 09, 2016, 14:31 #83405

    Still need to sort your Arsenal from Arsene confusion WESTIE but par for the course for someone who once took a train ride to see Arsenal and claims that makes him number one fan. Always be suspicious of match memories that are just actual stats that can be googled at will ..... No passion in that.

  114. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 09, 2016, 14:21 #83404

    Westie - a lot people think you are a quisling. Betting against Arsenal winning, earning no doubt from a Spurs title. Tut tut.

  115. Radfordkennedy

    Feb 09, 2016, 14:07 #83403

    GP.....thanks for that post,I've just checked my passport to make sure I'm not 11,there are some very knowledgeable people on here on both sides of the AW fence when it comes to football mate,and you can't discount they're opinions as worthless because they differ from yours. There are too many debates where you have to ask yourself are we all wrong...the enigma that is Theo,he has by and large been rumbled as a footballer every defender knows let him turn,let him have the ball ,he can't or won't go past you he'll stop and pass it sideways or back .now it's not just those who've spent half a day in football who know that but all the thousands of butchers ,bakers and candlestick makers in the stands and armchairs who know it.And there's only one person responsible for persisting with such an ordinary player for so long

  116. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:57 #83402

    jj, your right there's something very familiar about this latest sermon from the mount/effort to put us in our place, didn't this appear on the Online goner in 2013, at least he didn't have to make it up.

  117. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:51 #83401

    Westie : By your standard of "put up or shut up" regarding any criticism of Arsenal we would still have Terry Neill in charge! There is none so blind than those who cannot see.

  118. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:46 #83400

    Dedicated to all Arsenal supporting quislings (the enemy within): While in the streets of all our fears, they reign supreme as orders go. They are the last to have their say, and last to know it doesn't matter how you try. They always watch with hollow eyes. To put you down they always find a way to criticise. The vultures fly high. They circle over us all. The vultures fly high, I'll take your hand if you fall.

  119. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:40 #83399

    Nick, nail on head there, that's all TOF cares about looking good having done it his way even when it's/was detrimental to the club and team, as long as he's able to say I done it my way, and he's still bumbling about trying after all these years, and some reckon he'll be vindicated when he eventually does ? it's not right laughing, you couldn't make it up. wenger out.

  120. jjetplane

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:37 #83398

    We have Ox dancing in the tunnel before the saints match which typifies preparation done under this spent dictatorship and now we have Ozil is the Norwich tunnel muttering 'their defence is ****' and all because they won't let the poodles win. This club is just not worth it. Embarrassing to the core. must be difficult though trying to do a job on the pitch when every club in football wants your manager because he used to win trophies when he was middle aged .... reminding also of Ozil petulance when goalies save his tippy tippy attempts to score and we have a perfect storm approaching of playboy who can't be bothered anymore. It's the Arsene way (the non-devil) ....

  121. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:37 #83397

    Westie : "most of the criticism of Wenger is in not signing a DM in the summer" - make that 10 summers and 10 winter transfer windows. It has taken 10 years to sign a goalkeeper, at this rate I will need to live past a 100 before we have a top drawer keeper, centre half, CDM and striker together at the same time. Arsenal/Arsene told us the move to Ashburton was so we could compete at the very top, well Barca are at the very top and I ain't looking forward to that game one bit!

  122. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:14 #83396

    Bard, it doesn't matter who knows what to the AKB's, just look at the list of people he's slagged off who have a hell of a lot more credentials than him (talk about double standards but what do you expect fron the AKB's)it's just another case of if you don't conform or agree with Lord wenger your no good and not a real supporter. wenger out.

  123. jjetplane

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:12 #83395

    When was the last time you ever heard anyone in football saying 'I wish we had Wenger'? Bet a couple of mortgage suppliers in the good old USA would just love him. Westie you are too much fun but keep posting and as for the circulars - next one if Arsenal beat the non-coaching Ranieri and his over rested squad to say Vindication is mine sayeth the apostles who would not shout profanities in the temple of The Only One .....

  124. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 13:00 #83394

    Here you are again preaching, telling us all what we want, what we're hoping for, what we think, what are your credentials, are you a clairvoyant now ? your must be taking after your messiah he thinks he's an expert on everything too. There used to be another AKB preacher on here who thought he knew everything and was an expert on everything but a master of none, he's gone back to la la land now. wenger out.

  125. King Jeremy

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:48 #83393

    The author is quite right - I've not worked a single day it football. But I know for damn sure that faced with a squad consistently subject to long term injuries, with only one recognised defensive midfielder, my reserve forward out for 2/3rds of the season and £200m burning a hole in my pocket, I'd not have rested until said issued were resolved via the transfer market. This is the point the AKBs consistently miss or don't want to hear. There are no more financial excuses for us not to look to constantly improve the playing team. But the man on £8m a year hasn't changed and bar the odd soundbite, is not convincing us that he is ever going to change. Therefore, for the sake of the club moving on, should we fail to win the league this year then very sadly and with profound thanks for all he has achieved, the manager should go.

  126. mbg

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:41 #83392

    A good result and the wave lengths go quiet ? (another piece of AKB spin you'd have some believe if they listened) yes but from whom ? the same supporters are on here win lose or draw, there's only one bunch they go quiet from. You couldn't make it up.

  127. Ron

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:38 #83391

    Westie i think yr struggling badly in yr quest to shine a light up Wengers ass these days. Youre sadly missing the point, not these who are showing your posts up. In essence, if AFC was Aston Villa, Everton, Spurs, Newcastle and yes, even Liverpool and retained top 4 and generally did what Arsenal and Wenger have done for the last 12 years, there wouldn't be any debate. It would be a universal shout of Victory in Harmony from the N7 rooftops and you would be able to sit smugly in the knowledge that your hero, really is Superman and worthy of your infatuation and tender kissing of his photograph. Do you get it now?

  128. James

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:26 #83390

    Westie- please tell us the disciplinary records of two of the finest midfielders in premiership history.PV4 and Roy Keane.12 reds cards each.When Arsenal were the best team in the country and we were winning trophies left right and centre we had the worst disciplinary record in the league.

  129. Bard

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:16 #83389

    Westie; project youth is one of the enduring myths. By the great mans definition a youth player is one we nurture from before the age of 16. The only players we have brought through by that definition are Ashley Cole, Jack and Kieran Gibbs. Not much of a track record over 20 years.

  130. James

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:14 #83388

    My opinion of Wenger will never change.He should have gone after the CL humiliation v Man Utd in 2009.That should have been the final straw.But we get idiots like Westie comparing him with Ranieri and Clement.Why not compare him with Guardiola Ancelotti Fergie and Mourinho.All multiple league winners since 2004 and CL winners.But the AKB's never mention their specialist in failures European record.Getting knocked out of the CL is now up there with winning the 4th place trophy.Westie we didnt miss out on Santos Squillaci Chamakh Gervinho did we?We all know Kroenke knows jacksh*t about football but it seems some of our fans do as well

  131. jjetplane

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:03 #83387

    WeSTIE who apparently once stroked a horse in affection thinks all the rabble want is a brickhouse and a striker and it's done and dusted. Er no Mr one dimensional .... the whole club from top to bottom stinks of self imposed restraints as some two bob burger man and his ostrich lackey keep the hand brake on because of both fear of the unknown and basic greed. Let us not even bother with the tactics and now Westie claims Ranieri has none just like his false idol who may have sat around a football environment for two decades but still looks and sounds like nothing more than a slippery bank CEO. Westie you carp on about the press yet swallow anything you imagine will put Wenger in a hallowed light. Bring back Simon Rose ....

  132. Made Up Stat

    Feb 09, 2016, 12:00 #83386

    I can just see Bayern sticking with a manager who went the best part of a decade without a pot and was a perennial under achiever in Europe.

  133. Highbury Boy

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:56 #83385

    Graham- like I am sure most fans on this site I was a big supporter of Wenger in his early years though never quite falling for the "Miracle man"label given to him by Dein. Since 2008 I have been very critical of him believing that he wouldn't win anything ever again. OK so I was wrong about him taking the FACups more seriously. However I do not follow your argument that THIS season he must take responsibility if we fail to win the PL. The Board has said consistently for some seasons that he has had funds for transfers. With Utd dropping points in the last minute v Chelsea it looks increasingly likely that despite the difficult away matches to come Wenger will achieve the Board's objectives of a Top 4 place. As the CL Group stage has already been reached that means the 2 objectives have been achieved with consequent bonuses for Ivan and Wenger. On that basis it could be argued that he should get a contract extension.

  134. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:52 #83384

    Should have read 'Lillian Thuram' after World Cup winner. After taking Monaco to the semi-finals of the European Cup, Bayern Munich wanted Wenger as their manager but Monaco wouldn't release him. After a poor league start the following year he left by mutual consent, disillusioned by the Marseille match fixing incidents. Project youth at AFC, included Anelka, Fabregas, RVP, Ashley Cole. He's as good as anyone at developing young talent.

  135. Bard

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:52 #83383

    Westie; youre excelling yourself these days. What's Wanyama got to do with anything ? He was but one of dozens we were linked with, why pull him out of the hat, its bizarre. I dont agree that the criticism of Wenger is because we didnt sign a DM. The reasons are complex but in short he's just not good enough and hasnt been for a decade or more.

  136. asfasfa

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:48 #83382

    **** u all Wilshere is the next messio

  137. jjetplane

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:46 #83381

    Pretty frightening stuff up there in Perry's Pulpit with the Book of Job (geddit) and hastily delivered circular 8246 (eventually) with same title as last but the bits of the sermon that fell from the mountain have been gathered and sown which all sounds a tad familiar. This hatred you speak of must trip a nerve in the AKB president as he loves a bit of that when he speaks of the hairy arsed, chuntering, wallowing, self-pitying, cheating, serial fouling non Telegraph readers from the left side of the moon. Doubt you annoy people on here who probably look forward to your circulars which speed up after a win. Assuming you will eventually collate these missives and self publish via Amazon. Rave on John Donne indeed. Er 4th sentence concluding para .... duh!

  138. N4

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:44 #83380

    GP - what you're confusing yourself is that fans had enough of AW whether he wins the league or the CL. Maybe you should ask AW why is he not straight with fans about what he wants to do or has done etc...I still want Wenger OUT and Kronke and Gazidis to go with him as well ASAP. Wenger created the hatred by the way and the credential I give you is last season at Stoke station!

  139. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:40 #83379

    @Nick, You're rapidly losing touch with reality. 'Condemned to the top 4' - yes please! Ask Daniel Levy, L'pool, Villa, Everton if that's where they'd love to be. Not beating MU by more than 3-0. For ruthless read gung-ho! Sacked from Monaco, but like Mee & GG, only after winning the French League & Cup. Failed project youth? Ask World Footballer if the Year, George Weah & World Cup winner if they agree with your put down? Having a playing style of his own. Preferable to the style of Pulis & Allardyce thanks very much. I'll be happy for Wenger to leave if we bring in Remi Garde to take over. He'll learn so much more at Villa this year than the prima donnas who pontificate in TV studios.

  140. Rooney

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:38 #83378

    jeff wright duck you wenger is genius who will the league u tosswer

  141. jeff wright

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:16 #83377

    It seems to me Graham that the main plank of your argument is that anyone who has not worked a day in football has no right to criticize Arsene on his obviously poor tactical nous. Now where have we heard that before.... Many who have worked a day in football ( or more) managers,coaches and ex-players have questioned Wenger's training and medical regime though and his decision making weaknesess -such as the fixed pre-planned substitutions ,usually on 70minutes (yawn) that take no account of the prevalent circumstances of the position that we are in regarding the game that is taking place .When he pulled Giroud off - after the sending off of plodding Per ( who is now plodding no more) against Chelsea ( A CORRECT CALL THAT BY THE WAY FROM THE REF) and left goal the goal shy Walcott on to take on the Chelsea rear-guard - the TV cameras panned into the crowd and you could see the head shaking and bemused looks on the faces of the supporters . They of course have seen this sort of nonsense from Arsene for donkey's years..... The most infamous example was the AOC one against United,he was having a great game giving the United team a tough time has we chased the game needing a goal .RVP threw his arms up in the air in despair when he saw Wenger pulling our best player on the day off and some of the crowd screamed at Wenger,you don't know what you are doing! They were right. Also you have to question what sort of impact these imbecilic things that Wenger does have on young players confidence .Wenger of course in his arrogant know it all way got a bit shirty afterwards when questioned about his decision - as he always does,many think though that he protests too much.I have no confidence in Wenger what so ever regarding winning the league - or in Europe either his shocking ineptitude and decision making in Europe has resulted in us having to play Barcelona home and away .As a matter of interest who thinks that our current side is better than the Fabregas-RVP one that faced the Catalans the last time we played them>? Personally my view is that we have gone backwards since then - while Barca have got better. You could make it up.

  142. Nick

    Feb 09, 2016, 11:02 #83376

    Wenger is no devil, a devil is ruthless and single minded, Wenger is probably a very nice man ( though his wife would beg to differ no doubt) he doesn't WANT us to fail but he does want us to succeed on HIS terms and there is the rub, his terms of playing tippy, tappy football and not being willing to pay the going rate however over priced that may be for players is what condemns us season after season to top four and maybe a cup instead of title glory, the old excuse of the stadium move doesn't wash either, we fod a very affordable deal mortgage wise for the bowl we could have spent on players as we were asset rich, instead we reverted to Wengers youth project a project he had tried before at Monaco it failed then too and he was sacked, but our board indulged him to our detriment, he still wants to win on his terms or not at all, players limitations have forced a more cautious approach yet that too is often taken too far, the manure game 3-0 up after twenty minutes then we go into our shell instead of really finishing off an opponent who is on the ropes thus neglecting our GD which at present is worth a point to the scum. You say as Wengers has said we have no right and are not qualified to critique decisions, you are wrong, we pay our money , we invest our emotions into the club THAT gives us the right to have an opinion, Football is NOT the magic circle closed off from mere mortals who have no clue how its really done, transfers are business transactions nothing more, investments that is all, a company that does not invest in itself will fail, we did not invest in our club this season, we did the bare minimum to keep trading, while hoping our original investments would be enough to keep us in the game. As for tactics many of us have played the game all of us have watched the game some of us for decades and more, that DOES impart a modicum of knowledge, yet you along with other disciples of the lord Wenger patronizingly tell us to keep quiet because we know nothing, sorry but your wrong and more than wrong , how many of us have worked a day in politics? Yet we who are of age still are allowed to vote on who will govern our country and impact on our lives but be critical of a football club manager, dear god heaven forbid that's way above our intellectual abilities !!

  143. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2016, 10:36 #83375

    Most of the criticism aimed at Wenger is in not signing a DM in the summer. Wanyama was heavily linked with joining AFC but it never happened. Partly Southampton not wishing to lose him or AW not that keen on what is essentially a brick outhouse masquerading as a footballer. His method of playing 'football' has caught up with him as he was handed a 5 game ban for his horror tackle on talented Dimitri Payet. It was Wanyama's third red of the season. Previously he was booked 12 times last season & his final season at Celtic saw him collect 15 yellows & 2 red cards. Footballer or liability? His crude tackles at St. Marys when he poleaxed Ozil twice from behind went unpunished by the officials as Southampton were granted free reign to get about the Arsenal technicians. Don't the English just adore pub football?

  144. Ron

    Feb 09, 2016, 10:13 #83374

    Youve arrived on here yrs too late Graham. I vouch all on here have been strident Arsene backers for nearly all of his tenure. For some of us he reached his high watermark as a Coach a while back, yrs back for some and you might be surprised to know that there are many fans who still today go to games who have never rated AW. To suggest that his critics dont acknowledge his achievements is more self pitying horse muck, it truly is. As for his responsibility of AFC dont win the title, its far from being all his, its his together with that of the rotten greedy regime under which he works.Much of the hammering that AW takes in truth is (unfortunately for AW) the outpouring of peoples growing distaste for football generally of which Wenger and Arsenal happen to be in the vanguard of domestically. Im sure Wenger couldnt care a hoot what we say on his salary. As for Nevilles 'plight', a few of us wouldn't mind a bit of it im sure.

  145. Joe S,

    Feb 09, 2016, 9:49 #83372

    Thanks for joining the discussion Arsene. Do you really care what the fans think and aren't you the stooge of that man Kroenke?

  146. Nick T

    Feb 09, 2016, 9:42 #83371

    Graham - when you talk about limitations do you really need to have worked a day in football to know what complete comedians we've had in goal since Lehmann and how it has cost us.....if it wasn't for Cech we wouldn't even be in this title race!! As I see it the main argument(s) against Wenger though are not that he's made mistakes (who doesn't/hasn't) but that they are seemingly not addressed for donkeys years if at all!!

  147. Mark

    Feb 09, 2016, 9:39 #83370

    For me its not that I want him out for the sake of it. What bothers me is that wenger's team bottle it so often; fall at the 3rd from last hurdle so often; its not about ability it is often with wenger his tactics or the prevailing attitude of his team i.e. the things which are under his entire control. He clearly favours nice guys rather than personalities; lets face it Meerts is the softest 6ft 7 you are likely to come across; Gabrielle was always clearly needed; anyway let the cards fall where they will, i think weve been caught out this season by leicester and spurs and west ham fast running, total commitment over 90 mins and im nore sure were strong enough to get ahead of them; the game changed this season and most didnt see it coming.

  148. Jack

    Feb 09, 2016, 9:22 #83369

    I will blame the WOR if we fail to win the title this season not the manager for the way they refuse to back the team and constantly criticise the club.This post will no doubt be deleted for not hurling abuse at Wenger,his backers or the club in general.

  149. Bard

    Feb 09, 2016, 9:06 #83368

    Graham reading your latest offering had me pining for Simon Rose. I would constructively suggest that you avoid lecturing those you dont agree with. Try reading any of the Rev Badarse's posts, he is something of a specialist in this field. It doesnt go down well. On a more substantive point how do you know who on here or elsewhere has football qualifications or playing expertise. I have played decent semi pro and have a coaching licence, albeit a while ago.My experience on here suggests that most on both sides of the fence seem to know a hell of a lot about football, rather more than you I suspect. You need to drop the holier than thou tone as it detracts from your point, although I am never quite sure what your point is.

  150. Westlower

    Feb 09, 2016, 8:48 #83367

    Wenger gets criticised by all and sundry for his lack of tactics & reticence to enter the transfer market. Most bizarrely of all he seemingly is never responsible for any good things achieved by his team. As things stand right now, Arsenal are favourites to win both the PL & FA Cup. Ranieri, the pundits current favourite, also admits to not overburdening his team with tactics. He apparently has a pact with his team that as long as they run hard, he'll not interfere by imposing tactics upon them. His philosophy is to give his team 2 days a week rest, Wednesday being a key rest day. Oh, the luxury afforded to a coach whose team only play one game a week. Ranieri is not blind to the advantage this gives his side. "In England, the game is always high intensity and wipes people out. They need more time to recover. I make sure the players have at least two days off from football each week. I'll explain a little football ideas every now and then, as long as they give me everything." Two close shaves that thankfully got away from AFC: £31m striker Jackson Martinez, who was linked to AFC in the summer, joined Atletico Madrid instead from Porto & has been offloaded to China already, after scoring only 2 goals from 15 games for AM. Paul Clement has been sacked by Derby after only 8 months in the job & has been win less for 7 games since splashing the cash in the Jan transfer window. Clement was touted to be Wengers successor last summer, after being assistant manager at Real Madrid, PSG & CFC. Not so easy being a manager is it?

  151. Tony Evans

    Feb 09, 2016, 8:22 #83366

    Graham - Years ago I flirted with wanting Arsenal to lose in order to, hopefully, get Wenger out. I never really managed it - it's not easy willing your team to fail after so many years as a supporter. I still want Wenger out (for reasons that have been debated to death on this site) and will do even more if he fluffs his lines this season when we are awash with money that could and should have been invested in the squad and the title is there for the taking.

  152. Made Up Stat

    Feb 09, 2016, 8:16 #83365

    More hand-wringing along the lines of I haven't spent half a day in football management or imparted tactics to professional footballers, so my opinion is quite rightly dismissed by my betters. Yeah, well I've never spent 10 minutes as a fireman, but I know when a buildings on fire.

  153. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 09, 2016, 7:54 #83364

    Graham - I've called for loyalists to come on here and give their views. The 3 members of the crazy gang never would. So good to see your points. Not sure if you are simply arguing what you did before. To me you seem like someone on the edge of a decision possibly one which you don't like. Is it simply that you are saying Wenger has to go if we don't win the title? Logic of your arguament flows that way. Rose the other Loyal contributor seemed to follow the same line but would not confirm it when the editor layed out a challenge. Interesting seeing you twist with your dilemma. Just hope it is not to painful. Once you are free you can then happily divorce Arsene from Arsenal and be a happier man

  154. Not bunty

    Feb 09, 2016, 7:45 #83363

    So your rubbishy, good